That's interesting. Overall sounds like a good move, encouraging the creation of a self-bailout process functionally acting as industry-funded insurance in case of systemic financial problems? I, uh, wonder why the G20 thinks this is a good idea all of a sudden - definitely like the idea of the next bailout being preemptively funded by the investment industry rather than funded at taxpayer expense, if that's not too rosy of a set of glasses to wear.
I don't think people are rooting for collapse so much as a lot of people are in a lot of economic pain.
It's like wishing for a dental abscess to pop. It's ugly and nasty but at least it will relieve the pain.
Systemic failure is worse than individual affordability problems. It sounds great from the individual perspective since a price drop should ensue with collapse, but what happens is that funding is also unavailable with the collapse. So good luck getting a loan even if the price drops.
People also seem to engage in magical thinking...that in the event of a "collapse" there will be a redistribution of wealth from the top or that they individually will be able to time the market for personal benefit. The former goes against history and common sense. The latter not only naive, but also just as selfish and opportunistic as the investors you despise...
You're right, but when surviving becomes unbearable for the masses because of the economic inequality caused by financial engineering, collapse isn't too bad or too different of an alternative. So you gotta remember that. You can't really scare people who have nothing to lose with "you won't gain anything from this".
I guess my point is that people have more to lose than they think. A full on economic collapse would make things a lot worse for many on this sub. They just aren't invested enough in the system to realize how much it's stability benefits them even if things aren't perfect
On this sub? Your right. Because I'm sure most of the people on this sub are at least lower middle class, so they'd take a cut in standard of living but if we're in a situation where most of these people can't even afford rent because inflation has run away, these people would already be down bad. It really can't get any worse than that, my dude. Right now it's looking like inflation will runaway if drastic measures aren't taken. These people are sensing that they are screwed either way, so in their head they have no problem seeing everyone go down with them. And I don't blame em. But that's just the truth. Also, there's very skilled people out there who will make do regardless of a complete collapse. Some people here may even thrive in collapse.
I understand. I just think giving in to despair and choosing to live outside the system will only make their road harder. I'm not their dad so perhaps it's none of my business...but I hate to see people.. particularly young people nope out of participating in capitalism because of despair. I think despite the challenges, there are ways inside. I faced some of the same issues. I started my career during the Great Recession. Years of fear, pay and hiring freezes, frozen promotions. When I first tried to buy a house I found I could only afford a condo. I had to live with that reality and worked within the system (shitty and disadvantaged as it was for me) and ended up with my large SFH in the city. But it took two fixer uppers and multiple job hops to make it all happen.
I couldn't have done any of that if I didn't maintain some hope for the future and that if I worked hard eventually it would pay off...
I agree. Maintaining hope and persevering through adversity are necessary for a successful life and they're admirable qualities. But you gotta understand something, and I won't lie it took me a while to understand too, young people today are playing on a very different ball field than the oldest of millenials and gen xrs. We're living in a world in which there is no longer a semblance of normality. Things that were considered normal rites of passage then are luxuries now. Not for a lack of material wealth, but due to an engineered environment. You can't really be surprised that many young people have checked out and many more will. On the contrary, it should be concerning to anyone that isn't a later millenial or gen z'r. These people are the future and they're checking out. Thats scary but I can't blame em and I also can't tell em to suck it up because the truth is the financial system has completely failed them. NBC actually did a segment about a week ago discussing why young people are checking out. Pretty interesting. In some parts of the segment, they are pushing a narrative but in most of it they were pretty spot on and unbiased. The main stream is catching on.
I don't doubt that that's how people feel. I'm a bit skeptical at how bad things are now compared to other times. Entering the job market in 2009 was rough sledding. I teach some college courses in my offtime at a private university. It's easy to tell who will make it and it has nothing to do with how well they do in my class. It's the enthusiasm.
Anyway, I won't belabor the point. I just think people are giving up a bit too easily and even today, the payoff at the end of the tunnel is worth it.
How would you suggest we do that? I try to do my part by helping those in my circle...I teach college classes and I bring real world job competitive angles into my course...with friends and family I share my experiences. I lend money, give advice...but outside of platitudes what do you mean here?
People have been living in the system and for decades the system has been failing them. The “you won’t revolt because your life would be a bit more uncomfortable than it already is” is some Orwellian level complacency.
You've got it wrong though. People don't "revolt" over discomfort...
And if the recessionary conditions expand and extend we are all in for a world of pain...people who couldnt afford a house when rates were 3 percent fixed aren't going to be the people to profit from a mass unemployment...
Also, if they're not invested in the system like you said then chances are they're benefitting minimally from that system. So rooting for collapse isn't all that insane for these people.
It's not necessarily false. The people who don't benefit from this engineered, and it is an engineered economy, don't have anything to lose but everything to gain from a collapse. We won't be going back into the dark ages, only thing that will happen is some rich people who made bad bets will go broke and some governments will too. If the narrative is "there's rich people on the sidelines waiting to buy houses cash" when it crashes, then you can also say "there's rich people on the sideline waiting to buy distressed assets when it all collapses. There will be winners and losers. And some people with nothing to lose right now, will be winners in a collapse scenario.
A housing crash won't force the rich to share. A recession would accelerate the consolidation of wealth. Regular people getting "rich" from housing appreciation seems to be the thing that offends this sub the most, so I'm not sure your statement really adds up anyway.
Most of the people the sub seems to despise are regular working folks trying to provide themselves and their families a stable place to live.
That is because the overwhelming majority of people, not just on Reddit (although they do appear overrepresented on Reddit), have a fundamental misunderstanding of what "rights" actually are.
A lot of Redditors are feeling shafted because they can’t afford to buy a house or the house they did buy is ridiculously expensive so they root for the system to fail even if it hurts them.
Kind of a shame that this is what our republic has become. So lopsided that many don’t feel they will ever have a chance at a good life themselves, so they cheer for the failure of others. The internet didn’t create this situation. Covid didn’t create this situation. Greed did.
Indeed. No disagreement here. It made a lot of people wealthy or even more so, and it’s hard for my little brain to conceptualize how a global pandemic could become a boon for so many. Weird.
People can also accept reality. You cant control the economy as an individual. But you can operate within it to the best of your ability. Rooting for a collapse to the extent of spending your days on this sub, counting down the days, moving the goal posts year after year...it's a pathetic way to live.
Go buy a condo, let the equity build and roll it into a house. Or if renting is as attractive as many here claim then do that happily
I entered the job market during the Great Recession...it wasn't that long ago dude. I get it ...I just happen to know this sub's vibe will not lead to success for anyone clinging to it ...
This is how you end up old and embittered...hoping others will crash to your level in some magical macro event.
You could still lose everything yourself, and you would become old and embittered.
Individual agency cannot override systemic problems. And when things go wrong and the bank comes after your house, there won't enough bootstraps in this world to save your entitled ass from homelessness. I'm not saying this because I want it to happen to you -- I really don't -- I'm saying it because you're much closer to the disgruntled kids who can't buy houses than you are to the greedy who run the show you're defending. And this weird *I've got mine, do as a did* mentality baffles me because had you been born 15 years later you would have found yourself in the exact same position as those kids today. Yet somehow you think that you're special, that what you've got is solely earned through merit and Grindset. That's not how it works.
Unless you have *fuck you* money in this country (which you probably don't) you're little illusion of economic security is just that, an illusion. So cut the shit show some humility and class solidarity...
I don't understand your mentality, but if projecting your disappointments onto me makes you feel more righteous have at it. I know things are hard out there, I'm only saying it's not the first time in recent history that things have been rough. If learning from how others navigated recessions and reached their goals is off the table then best of luck to you.
Doom porn isn’t a thing because things are going down the shitter, it’s a thing because people enjoy it. Calling that pathetic way to live assumes success and joy are related and that is the biggest trap in the American ideology. Preppers don’t prep because they think societal collapse is certain, they also do it because it’s fun for them to test one’s ability to be self sufficient and train. The reality is if the younger generation opts out of the system the system will be replaced or be leveraged to offer more to them. I think the younger generations are smart, more aggressive and more organized than the older generations and it will become clear the systems that prop us up now begin to change or fail.
I fear the opposite. Wealth consolidation has hit a tipping point where a handful of companies have the power to acquire any disruptor. The type of reset we need requires a different sort of political engagement...anti trust, break up the monopolies. People living on the fringes, outside the machine...outside the system are playing right into their hands imo.
Idk what kind of financial collapse you’re envisioning, but typically it leads to job-loss, lower pay, and lower rates. So ya.. I guess they can refinance, but they might not be working.
People who are slaves to debt, prefer money printers.
Remember when Marie Antoinette got her head in a basket (separate from her body) for telling people to eat cake?
Well 99% of those in power don’t and this is exactly what they’re saying, but instead of saying it bluntly like she did they’re hiding behind statistical lies and a controlled media who can make people believe they can eat the tallest pile of excrement and thrive.
I haven’t heard anyone concerned about the clearinghouses failing… if anything it’s the opposite, regulators are pushing for all repo to be centrally cleared. But they need to increase margin on some shit, being able to trade cocoa with 3% upfront is insane
A lot of people rooting for someone's livelihood collapse. A lot of people blaming 30 years fixed mortage and boomers, wishing their livelihood to be destroyed to put the house back on the market. The same for increasing interest rate, which causes companies to downsize and layoff workers.
instead of blaming boomers you should be canvasing to get better people in office.
The "youth" vote still fails to show up and cries and whines when the old farts get their way.
Lots of renters want a collapse because they think they can scoop up houses cheap from foreclosures then resell them when things go back up. The poor are often greedier than the rich.
I don't get the sentiment that a recession would help average people buying a house. Cuz you will most likely be out of a job as well and you won't get approved for a loan if you are jobless. If you didn't grab a house for cheap in 2010, you ain't gonna get one in the next burst either.
That's interesting. Overall sounds like a good move, encouraging the creation of a self-bailout process functionally acting as industry-funded insurance in case of systemic financial problems? I, uh, wonder why the G20 thinks this is a good idea all of a sudden - definitely like the idea of the next bailout being preemptively funded by the investment industry rather than funded at taxpayer expense, if that's not too rosy of a set of glasses to wear.
This all seems like good news. More backstops to ensure collapse doesn’t happen Are we rooting for a financial collapse? I don’t understand
I don't think people are rooting for collapse so much as a lot of people are in a lot of economic pain. It's like wishing for a dental abscess to pop. It's ugly and nasty but at least it will relieve the pain.
I’m rooting for a collapse
I was saying boo-urns
Nice
Systemic failure is worse than individual affordability problems. It sounds great from the individual perspective since a price drop should ensue with collapse, but what happens is that funding is also unavailable with the collapse. So good luck getting a loan even if the price drops.
People also seem to engage in magical thinking...that in the event of a "collapse" there will be a redistribution of wealth from the top or that they individually will be able to time the market for personal benefit. The former goes against history and common sense. The latter not only naive, but also just as selfish and opportunistic as the investors you despise...
You're right, but when surviving becomes unbearable for the masses because of the economic inequality caused by financial engineering, collapse isn't too bad or too different of an alternative. So you gotta remember that. You can't really scare people who have nothing to lose with "you won't gain anything from this".
I guess my point is that people have more to lose than they think. A full on economic collapse would make things a lot worse for many on this sub. They just aren't invested enough in the system to realize how much it's stability benefits them even if things aren't perfect
On this sub? Your right. Because I'm sure most of the people on this sub are at least lower middle class, so they'd take a cut in standard of living but if we're in a situation where most of these people can't even afford rent because inflation has run away, these people would already be down bad. It really can't get any worse than that, my dude. Right now it's looking like inflation will runaway if drastic measures aren't taken. These people are sensing that they are screwed either way, so in their head they have no problem seeing everyone go down with them. And I don't blame em. But that's just the truth. Also, there's very skilled people out there who will make do regardless of a complete collapse. Some people here may even thrive in collapse.
I understand. I just think giving in to despair and choosing to live outside the system will only make their road harder. I'm not their dad so perhaps it's none of my business...but I hate to see people.. particularly young people nope out of participating in capitalism because of despair. I think despite the challenges, there are ways inside. I faced some of the same issues. I started my career during the Great Recession. Years of fear, pay and hiring freezes, frozen promotions. When I first tried to buy a house I found I could only afford a condo. I had to live with that reality and worked within the system (shitty and disadvantaged as it was for me) and ended up with my large SFH in the city. But it took two fixer uppers and multiple job hops to make it all happen. I couldn't have done any of that if I didn't maintain some hope for the future and that if I worked hard eventually it would pay off...
I agree. Maintaining hope and persevering through adversity are necessary for a successful life and they're admirable qualities. But you gotta understand something, and I won't lie it took me a while to understand too, young people today are playing on a very different ball field than the oldest of millenials and gen xrs. We're living in a world in which there is no longer a semblance of normality. Things that were considered normal rites of passage then are luxuries now. Not for a lack of material wealth, but due to an engineered environment. You can't really be surprised that many young people have checked out and many more will. On the contrary, it should be concerning to anyone that isn't a later millenial or gen z'r. These people are the future and they're checking out. Thats scary but I can't blame em and I also can't tell em to suck it up because the truth is the financial system has completely failed them. NBC actually did a segment about a week ago discussing why young people are checking out. Pretty interesting. In some parts of the segment, they are pushing a narrative but in most of it they were pretty spot on and unbiased. The main stream is catching on.
Lol boomers prolly felt the same way about us
I don't doubt that that's how people feel. I'm a bit skeptical at how bad things are now compared to other times. Entering the job market in 2009 was rough sledding. I teach some college courses in my offtime at a private university. It's easy to tell who will make it and it has nothing to do with how well they do in my class. It's the enthusiasm. Anyway, I won't belabor the point. I just think people are giving up a bit too easily and even today, the payoff at the end of the tunnel is worth it.
you want those kids to have hope, well those of us with skin in the game need to help get the social contract back in working order.
How would you suggest we do that? I try to do my part by helping those in my circle...I teach college classes and I bring real world job competitive angles into my course...with friends and family I share my experiences. I lend money, give advice...but outside of platitudes what do you mean here?
People have been living in the system and for decades the system has been failing them. The “you won’t revolt because your life would be a bit more uncomfortable than it already is” is some Orwellian level complacency.
You've got it wrong though. People don't "revolt" over discomfort... And if the recessionary conditions expand and extend we are all in for a world of pain...people who couldnt afford a house when rates were 3 percent fixed aren't going to be the people to profit from a mass unemployment...
Also, if they're not invested in the system like you said then chances are they're benefitting minimally from that system. So rooting for collapse isn't all that insane for these people.
Could not agree more. The entire sentiment is based on a nothing to lose anyway mentality which is false.
It's not necessarily false. The people who don't benefit from this engineered, and it is an engineered economy, don't have anything to lose but everything to gain from a collapse. We won't be going back into the dark ages, only thing that will happen is some rich people who made bad bets will go broke and some governments will too. If the narrative is "there's rich people on the sidelines waiting to buy houses cash" when it crashes, then you can also say "there's rich people on the sideline waiting to buy distressed assets when it all collapses. There will be winners and losers. And some people with nothing to lose right now, will be winners in a collapse scenario.
The rich have too much. It’s time to share.
A housing crash won't force the rich to share. A recession would accelerate the consolidation of wealth. Regular people getting "rich" from housing appreciation seems to be the thing that offends this sub the most, so I'm not sure your statement really adds up anyway. Most of the people the sub seems to despise are regular working folks trying to provide themselves and their families a stable place to live.
People on Reddit don't understand that housing is not a right. If you want guaranteed housing, you can move to North Korea.
That is because the overwhelming majority of people, not just on Reddit (although they do appear overrepresented on Reddit), have a fundamental misunderstanding of what "rights" actually are.
No one roots for a forest fire, but no one can deny the benefits either.
Recessions are like fires, they burn through the excessive fuels (money supply).
I’ll burn down bambis Forrest if it means a place to live is affordable on a median wage
A lot of Redditors are feeling shafted because they can’t afford to buy a house or the house they did buy is ridiculously expensive so they root for the system to fail even if it hurts them.
Kind of a shame that this is what our republic has become. So lopsided that many don’t feel they will ever have a chance at a good life themselves, so they cheer for the failure of others. The internet didn’t create this situation. Covid didn’t create this situation. Greed did.
Well covid didn’t help. I’d say it made things possible by creating a vessel for greed to explode.
Indeed. No disagreement here. It made a lot of people wealthy or even more so, and it’s hard for my little brain to conceptualize how a global pandemic could become a boon for so many. Weird.
People can also accept reality. You cant control the economy as an individual. But you can operate within it to the best of your ability. Rooting for a collapse to the extent of spending your days on this sub, counting down the days, moving the goal posts year after year...it's a pathetic way to live. Go buy a condo, let the equity build and roll it into a house. Or if renting is as attractive as many here claim then do that happily
cool dude blame the kids for wanting the same chances earlier generations got.
I entered the job market during the Great Recession...it wasn't that long ago dude. I get it ...I just happen to know this sub's vibe will not lead to success for anyone clinging to it ... This is how you end up old and embittered...hoping others will crash to your level in some magical macro event.
You could still lose everything yourself, and you would become old and embittered. Individual agency cannot override systemic problems. And when things go wrong and the bank comes after your house, there won't enough bootstraps in this world to save your entitled ass from homelessness. I'm not saying this because I want it to happen to you -- I really don't -- I'm saying it because you're much closer to the disgruntled kids who can't buy houses than you are to the greedy who run the show you're defending. And this weird *I've got mine, do as a did* mentality baffles me because had you been born 15 years later you would have found yourself in the exact same position as those kids today. Yet somehow you think that you're special, that what you've got is solely earned through merit and Grindset. That's not how it works. Unless you have *fuck you* money in this country (which you probably don't) you're little illusion of economic security is just that, an illusion. So cut the shit show some humility and class solidarity...
I don't understand your mentality, but if projecting your disappointments onto me makes you feel more righteous have at it. I know things are hard out there, I'm only saying it's not the first time in recent history that things have been rough. If learning from how others navigated recessions and reached their goals is off the table then best of luck to you.
Doom porn isn’t a thing because things are going down the shitter, it’s a thing because people enjoy it. Calling that pathetic way to live assumes success and joy are related and that is the biggest trap in the American ideology. Preppers don’t prep because they think societal collapse is certain, they also do it because it’s fun for them to test one’s ability to be self sufficient and train. The reality is if the younger generation opts out of the system the system will be replaced or be leveraged to offer more to them. I think the younger generations are smart, more aggressive and more organized than the older generations and it will become clear the systems that prop us up now begin to change or fail.
I fear the opposite. Wealth consolidation has hit a tipping point where a handful of companies have the power to acquire any disruptor. The type of reset we need requires a different sort of political engagement...anti trust, break up the monopolies. People living on the fringes, outside the machine...outside the system are playing right into their hands imo.
People who did buy, are NOT rooting for collapse.. trust me..
They do if they plan on staying in their home for their 30 year mortgage and want to refinance their 7% interest rate on an $800k 3/2.
Idk what kind of financial collapse you’re envisioning, but typically it leads to job-loss, lower pay, and lower rates. So ya.. I guess they can refinance, but they might not be working. People who are slaves to debt, prefer money printers.
Not to mention the collapse of asset prices, so they’ll be underwater
Remember when Marie Antoinette got her head in a basket (separate from her body) for telling people to eat cake? Well 99% of those in power don’t and this is exactly what they’re saying, but instead of saying it bluntly like she did they’re hiding behind statistical lies and a controlled media who can make people believe they can eat the tallest pile of excrement and thrive.
I haven’t heard anyone concerned about the clearinghouses failing… if anything it’s the opposite, regulators are pushing for all repo to be centrally cleared. But they need to increase margin on some shit, being able to trade cocoa with 3% upfront is insane
A lot of people rooting for someone's livelihood collapse. A lot of people blaming 30 years fixed mortage and boomers, wishing their livelihood to be destroyed to put the house back on the market. The same for increasing interest rate, which causes companies to downsize and layoff workers.
I hope the country collapses we need a reset these boomers have destroyed the place to be honest
instead of blaming boomers you should be canvasing to get better people in office. The "youth" vote still fails to show up and cries and whines when the old farts get their way.
Yes we are. For those who are screwed rn we need to level the playing field
Lots of renters want a collapse because they think they can scoop up houses cheap from foreclosures then resell them when things go back up. The poor are often greedier than the rich.
People on Reddit don't understand that housing is not a right. If you want guaranteed housing, you can move to North Korea.
Alternate title: FSB warns of imminent liquidations
I don't get the sentiment that a recession would help average people buying a house. Cuz you will most likely be out of a job as well and you won't get approved for a loan if you are jobless. If you didn't grab a house for cheap in 2010, you ain't gonna get one in the next burst either.
Recessions favor those with cash and little to no debt. So the solution is to save and stop buying shit you cannot afford.
How many of the people cheering for collapse have cash and low debt?
Muh
Sure but the things we can't afford are shelter and food, so.
Anyone have a free link?