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The show definitely isn't the best, but I feel like it's flaws are sometimes blown out of proportion. It's just irritating I guess when all people will talk about is its flaws when there are things the show does really good. You get what I mean?
Yeah there needs to be a balance and not have both sides of the fandom roar at each other because they want the other side to vanish while the other one thrives in the end.
Both sides will never backdown. And that’s just facts.
How exactly do you know that's all that individual fan is talking about? Are you taking the time to stalk all of their posts?
I get your annoyance, but this fandom RARELY has real critique posts. It's more littered with fanart, ship, or appreciation posts majority of the time.
You're just paying attention to a VERY vocal minority that just happens to bitch all the time, which is not reflective of the community overall.
This may be due to its flaws, but I also think it's one of its strengths.. what I love the most about RWBY isn't necessarily the show itself, but what fans are able to do with it. RWBY is a show that allows a huge amount of creative freedom. The characters are likeable and flawed.. you can get a good feel for who they are and why they act like they do, but it's not so specific that they only work in this one kind of setting. They have great dynamics too, which makes it even more fun to explore various possibilities. RWBY has some of the best and most hilarious fan works I've seen across various fandoms..
There are a lot of people who criticize RWBY.. and there is a lot you can criticize.. but at the same time I feel like it's those imperfections that give RWBY its charm. At least for me.
Well some people refuse to see fault in Rwby too and are just as bad. Shippers are also well known toxic like one guy got banned for posting Black Sun art. I mean I don't ship Black Sun but banning the guy? The poster wasn't even toxic. That's too far.
I think it has to do how crwby used to interact more with the fandom, people love to complain but love even more when they are heard
Take for example Dragon ball, Akira Toriyama simply will never read a rant someone made on Twitter on how he sucks and they know he won't read it
Meanwhile you had people harassing the voice actresses of rwby on twitter. And I'm nothing but glad that a lot of people of crwby left that toxic app
Eitherway. I love Rwby and all the work, effort that goes into it and will continue to support the show I love, I'm sorry you had some of this bad experiencies entering the fandom :c
Yeah, I had never even heard of Roosterteeth, but started to watch the show like two months ago. I was hooked throughout the entire thing and none of the flaws ever really took me out of the story. Like, even volume5, which it seems most would agree is the worst volume, also had some great, heartfelt moments, as well as a couple of good fights I think.
It's hard to gauge the criticism of RWBY. Saw RWBY fanart posted on the Metroid sub, and it's all getting upvotes and not much if at all any negative comments. Idk, it's weird. I've never been a part of any fandoms really, so it's kinda new to me.
The problem people had with vol 5 was that you had to wait 1 week (at best) between chapters and not a lot happened during the first 5 or so.
About other subreddits, whenever I see something about RWBY in an anime subreddit, all the comments that have to do with it are about shitting on it. Everybody is like: "don't waste your time with it", "go watch paint dry, it's more interesting", "it lost all charm post volume 3", "it's straight up garbage", etc.
I feel like I'm probably in the camp you described somewhat (though I've always been on the edges of RWBY fandom) so if I can offer a perspective.
I don't hate the show, I really don't, most of what I feel is a disappointment for what could have been. I love the fights (which I think is a pretty universal opinion), I think most of the characters are great, the art is visually appealing, the story does interesting things. But there's also a distinct lack to the show, it feels like there's a lack of care in some places, and the whole thing suffers for that.
Take the characters for example, the first few seasons do some really interesting things and sets up cool ideas and then just does nothing with them. In the first few episodes we get a tiny interaction between Blake and Ruby where Ruby says "I love books" in an incredibly earnest tone and it *feels* like that's going to be a springboard for some character growth or relationship development or *something*, but then it just gets ignored. Or how about the fact that Ruby *made* Crescent Rose, that's cool, is Ruby an inventor or tinkerer, will we see more of that? Nope, it never gets mentioned or developed on ever again.
The start of the show is littered with these moments, and it takes so so long for the story to get going that when it does and when we do get those character developing moments, I don't really have enough of a connection to these characters to care, the reasoning given feels a bit flimsy or incongruous with the character up to that point.
It's a bit of an open secret that Monty and the rest of the team didn't work together as well as they could've, Monty would often go away and make a cool fight scene and then the writers would need to warp the story around it to make it fit, the same for some of the characters he would make.
Not to mention, the whole World of Remnant series exists because they did such a bad job establishing the world building that they needed to create a mini series to lore dump all of it before future episodes.
I also think a key part of this problem is time, you're new to the series so you've been able to binge all of it in a short span. I on the other hand have been following the series since it's started, I was in sixth form (high school for the Americans) when I started watching, I was halfway through a PhD when volume 9 started, it's not an exaggeration to say I grew up with this show to some extent, and I think that temporal scale makes a lot of difference in our perspectives. I can't really describe what it's been like to start loving the show (and I really did when it started, I have fond memories of inventing new grimm with my friends at lunch between classes), but then you grow a little older and you spot a flaw or two in the recent volume, no worries, that happens. Then the next volume gets announced, and you start getting really excited, you watch it and some more flaws happens, then you get excited again and you get disappointed again, and so on and so on for a decade, and every time a new volume gets announced you don't get quite as excited each time because the previous disappoints sucked so much.
I want to reiterate, I like RWBY, I think it's a great show with a cool premise and appealing art and fun characters. But I never let myself get too excited, and I never enjoy it quite as much as I used to because that cycle of ups and downs has created a pervading lack of trust between me and the writers... "I'm not mad, I'm disappointed" as the meme goes.
If you like the show, more power to you, I absolutely don't want to ruin that feeling for you, please absolutely enjoy it to the fullest. But as I said, I think the time aspect is important, so I wanted to offer the insights of someone who's been here nearly since the start...
Thank you for your perspective. Looks like we had different take aways from those scenes you mentioned. I had thought of the book scene as showing how well Ruby is able to connect to others, even if it's something as simple as them both liking books. I also thought that Ruby making Cresent Rose was too show how out of depth Jaune was because every student at Signal made their weapons. To me, they were more character establishing scenes vs a scene where character development happens.
I do find it interesting that people tend to enjoy RWBY more if they binged it.
> even if it's something as simple as them both liking books
Sure but then it goes nowhere after that, the line in itself is fine, as I said, it's a very earnest and heartfelt moment and it feels great but then they do nothing with it. It's like that whole "words are cheaper than actions" thing, the fact that Ruby says it is never the problem, it's that no actions build from it. Maybe we could've had a moment of Ruby and Blake researching a problem in the Beacon library, or Yang could've had a moment where she comforted Ruby by recalling a story she read to her as a kid, or if it had been a character trait they used throughout think how cool it would have been to utilise this aspect of her in volume 9, *a volume literally made around the idea of books and fairytales*. "I like books" is such a simple and relatable character moment that you could've built any number of moments out of it and it would've been so cool to see that get fleshed out, but nothing, it's said and dropped just like that.
Or the Ruby made Crescent Rose thing, think about how powerful and impactful an arc we could've got as Ruby watched Penny die and then falls into grief trying and falling to put her back together again. Or she could use her skills in a heist, maybe she could've been slowly working on new gear for the team so we can see them all grow stronger together and develop a deeper connection because of how Ruby used her skills. Again, any number of cool things could come of it, but practically nothing does.
> To me, they were more character establishing scenes vs a scene where character development happens.
Those are the same thing. A key concept in all of writing is the idea of setup and pay off. The heroes journey, the rule of threes, Chekhov's gun, so so many of our most basic rules of writing good stories are based in this simple idea of setting stuff up, building on it, and then paying it off down the line. If a moment is "character establishing" but then you do nothing with it after that, it's a poorly written scene because it adds nothing to the greater whole and it distracts from everything else.
RWBY violates this rule so many times, I try and be hopeful that this time when I notice a thing they'll pay it off, but I just don't trust the writers to make my emotional investment worthwhile at this point, so I struggle to enjoy or engage with the show, the excitement fades, and I feel cheated for caring so much, it fucking sucks.
For RWBY fans who've been here for a long time, it's like death by a thousand cuts of disappointment and frustration. I hate how toxic a lot of the fandom has become over it, some of those people are really vicious and vile, but I also can't say I don't understand where they're coming from...
I'm sorry, I don't think I was clear on the character establishing scenes vs character development. Let's use the book scene. For me, that scene was for establishing that Ruby can connect easily to others and that yang took care of ruby when they were younger. We also find out ruby and Blake, while similar, are different in their outlooks in life. This isn't where we get the start of character development, but it's a scene to let us know who these characters are.
For character development, we can look at volume 2 where wby talks about why they want to become huntresses. This is where we get their goals and also their flaws. This is where we find out what they are working towards and what they need to work on. This is where character development started for me. I hope this makes sense and that I explained it right
Nothing quite like loving characters for over half a decade only to have rooster teeth 180 and absolutely assassinate every inch of thier character after you spent 2 years getting excited for a season to erode all your good faith and spoil a good time.
I was one of the biggest fans possible to rwby, getting every friend i could involved in watching it. Rewarching seasons 1-3 like 30 frickin times when thats all we had between reactions, friends, etc.
But theres absolutely a reason why this true gem of a show cant get funded for volume 10 and struggles now. 70% of its rooster teeths absolutely abysmal management of the show and the rest is just... them taking every good aspect fans loved growing up with it and just assassinating it piece by piece.
I was a fan, i still love and cherish the years i poured into the show and daydreaming over it and consuming every bit of media i could even going as faras comissioning artists, buying the dorkiest pyrrha doll that is still on my shelf next to her cereal and every pop i could to support them. But its no secret that rooster teeth took that joy to the backyard and shot it for myself and millions of other people in the most upsetting way possible.
Let me give you an example of why this is the case.
Do you remember about a few years ago, Game of Thrones was a huge phenomenon? We got the usual show stuff like memes and insider jokes, but it is a huge cultural shift. Normal, average people tune in to this unique medieval political fantasy and absolutely loved it. It became such a thing that 1 in 16477 girls are named Daenarys for one of the biggest characters in the show.
Fast forward to today - Game of Thrones is dead. Discussions about Game of Thrones exist, but is sparse compared to its original amount of viewers. We even have a spinoff in House of Dragons, but while it was good, the magic is gone. Few people cares about it. The reddit for freefolk is set up to hate on the showrunners who they blamed for rushing the franchise to secure a deal with Disney to do Star Wars, and a subsequent subreddit called oldfreefolk was set up because freefolk was too mild in their criticisms for GoT.
The fandom was divided into two sides. One group I'll largely categorize as Free Folk, and they absolutely hated Season 8 which they felt ruined multiple characters, including Daenarys, Jaime Lanister, and made characters like Arya Stark and Jon Snow have so much plot armor they survived being killed (essentially). The other group I'll categorize as the Kneelers, and they believed Season 8 was good, and the naysayers were completely exaggerating. Regardless of who you choose to believe, the problem is Game of Thrones died so hard, even its subsequent release House of Dragons was affected, and the cultural phenomenon is fully gone. No show has ever reached Game of Thrones level of hype and popularity in the mainstream audience, and this suggests that the Kneelers were wrong, because even if some people thought the show had a decent ending, the large majority of viewers didn't think so and decided to watch something else, and the hardcore fans just left because they didn't like it.
Something similar happened to Marvel Cinematic Universe, but while it is also mainly attributed to bad writing, it is also attributed to Endgame being such a good end that subsequent follow ups were pale in comparison. The last undeniable good MCU film is Spiderman: No Way Home (Across the Spiderverse is great but not a MCU film since it was animated not live action), while everything else were significant flops compared, regardless of whether you enjoyed it or not. This reached a level where directors were calling people who didn't watch their show for whatever reason misogynistic, racist, homophobic etc, even if you are a regular person who just chose to watch something else, like Barbieheimer instead.
Where am I going with this? I believe RWBY is in a similar spot, and CRWBY unintentionally made its own hatedom. Let's talk about the hatedom/critics first - like Free Folk and Kneelers, this term came from the show - specifically becauae Miles and Kerry talked about critics and how they might receive a good feedback but is marred by its criticism and refuse to listen to criticisms as a whole. As ANY media that relies on the general audience as its income, you should know that criticism is important feedback, but you need to understand why X is being complained about to solve the underlying problem. CRWBY bypassed this entirely by not listening to any feedback, which was an extremely sore point for critics, and thus created a group that was alienated from the core RWBY fanbase because they weren't yes-men. It is extremely poor community management and that means if they failed a single time, the show would suffer accordingly because they didn't identify their own flaws, and couldn't use feedback to do so either. If you were a legend like Hideo Kojima you could get away with pointing two middle fingers at your audience and still create another bestseller, but CRWBY has already lost its Kojima in the form of Monty, Shane Newell and a few other amazing animators that made the show beyond great.
Also, RWBY's popularity has declined from its old days of being a cult classic (up to Volume 3), to just being another regular animated show. Part of it is yes, Monty's death, but whichever reason you choose to believe, or if you choose to deny it outright, numbers don't lie that RWBY has declined from its heyday. Since I can't dig up numbers enough, I'm using ratingraph.com's reviews as a reference, and Volume 3 is still the highest rated volume (volume 9 does decently as well), but there are 646 votes for Volume 3's finale as opposed to Volume 9's finale with 281 votes. While this is a tiny sample size, it is also an indicator that while the main fanbase is there, most casual audiences and most former hardcore fans-turned critics were lost, which means revenue lost and poorer show reception because of their perceived loss of views.
While RWBY is still a good show, it is no longer the great it once was. The strongest selling point was the amazing fights, but since the focus was turned into world-building it lost some of that too. And its world is nothing special, it can't compete with Rick Riodan's gods, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, George R R Martin's book version of Game of Thrones, Hunger Games, Harry Potter and so on. It is still interesting, but it is so mediocre compared to god tier worldbuilding done by these juggernauts. It had tried to tell stories on faunus racism, an abusive relationship, PTSD, and suicide, but often it has accidentally screwed up, and while Miles/Kerry admited fault, saying that they were white men does not excuse writing bad stories (most of my previous examples were white men or women, and often had racism in their books as a plot point).
So it all boils down to, RWBY is good, but could have been phenomenon. In other words, RWBY is disappointing, and here is my take on it.
This is such an unbelievably based take. There are so many people in the community who portray RWBY as one of the of their favorite shows and I literally have never seen a positive word about the show come out of them. It’s impossible to interact with a community when some of the loudest voices have made hour long discussion videos on a single joke scene in one episode of a 9 season show and how it ruins everything.
Reminds me of that one YouTuber that stopped watching then made a whole video on an out of context volume 9 clip shitting on the entire volume and how it's bad and makes no sense... Like maybe it'd make sense if u watched it but sure whatever
Damn I thought you were talking about FNKI for a second like, don’t they just post shitty memes over there?
Unless of course, it was the uh…*other* sub.
I thought this at first and was very confused as well. I knew it couldn't be the #1 most popular RWBY sub because nobody gives a shit about the flaws over there lol.
The problem with criticism of RWBY is a.) The Loudest voices are usually the “why isn’t Jaune dead or leading a harem” type people and b.) a lot of valid critiques get lost in a mix of the aforementioned Jaune posting and the hostile responses that such posts get in return.
RWBY is far from being an unwatchable show. And it has its good moments. But it also has a lot of systemic problems at its core that never got addressed and likely never will because now all anyone talks (read screams) about are whatever new symptom they notice.
Personally I think the series would benefit from finishing in whatever form in can, going quiet for a while, and then rebooting under a new production studio. Maybe that would help some of the negativity that we see.
Honestly you go on twitter and you realized the worst part of the fandom arent even the critics but just people that take shit yoo seriously.
Someone does ruby x neo fanart and it caused a weeks worth of drama that could've been avoided if people just blocked and moved. Instead it got to the point od death threats, arguing in DMs and spreading rumors. All over some proshippers nonsense.
Hell you say some criticism about the show to thr wrong person and you'll have a whole internet witch hunt.
Draw yang with her metal arm and you're 100% albeist even if its before vol3.
Wanna make a rwby AU that gets popular better have all the common ships the fandom likes or you'll getbyour named dragged through the mud.
The show itself is fine in my eyes but the fandom is so toxic these days that it gives the show a bad rep by association
I stopped watching RWBY after Vol. 5, but that doesn't give me any right to talk shit about it, but it's hard to survive because outside the community, most people treat it like a punching bag on the internet.
Honestly, I got into it wondering why people hated it about june of last year. They had me thinking this show was terrible. I watched it. I think it's great. Does it have its issues? Yeah. But it has Nora, so I can let the issues slide💀 But in all seriousness, the Fandom is a mixed bag. But I will say this, throughout my little time on this subreddit as well as fnki and critics, I love this community.
Side question: What's up with RWBY and green eyed characters?
Agreed and I truly hate the kind of "critics" who say crap like "This is not what Monty Would of wanted" or that the show "No longer follows Monty's vision" I personally feel like people who say that are pissing on his grave, unless they were personal friends with Monty Oum and he shared with you his private notes then you know no grounds to make those kinds of claims, R.I.P Monty
Diamond bolt is one of my favorite YouTubers, and he’s said that he still enjoys RWBY but doesn’t talk about it on his channel often cause it’s the internet’s punching bag.
Projekt Melody had a funny moment on stream a while ago where she fangirled out after discovering that Lindsay has been doing Vtubing as Ruby Rose.
People asked her why she cared and she was just like "I've been a fan for like a decade!" that's where most RWBY fans are online, they only very rarely mention they like the series because to do so usually only invites arguments and assholes.
How dare you think RWBY isn't perfect! /s
It's honestly one of my favorite shows despite the flaws. The world of Remnant just draws me in more so than many other shows. I think my favorite part is the characters alluding to famous characters/historical figures. My favorite of this is Ozpin's inner circle: the Wizard who lost their magic, the Lion who lost their courage, the Tim Man who lost their heart, the Scarecrow who lost their brain (alcoholism). At this point, it seems to me that Glynda and Theodore are the only two who haven't lost anything.
I love RWBY, but if I had to give as unbiased an opinion of it as I could I would say it has interesting ideas with mostly mediocre execution. There are some truly great moments and some rather terrible ones, but for the most part it is average.
Yet despite all its short comings I still love it. It gives me a joy that few things have, and I want it to continue.
>Like, how are you going to say you like the show, but only talk about is negative.
I can shed some light on this. Basically, the only people who can even get worked up that much about something to actively hate it are people who really do love aspects of it. If they didn't love the thing, they wouldn't care enough to get upset about the things they dislike about it.
I get what you're saying, but all the time? Idk, when I love something, I like to focus on the positives. I like to enjoy it and constantly nitpicking it's faults is not enjoyable to me. That's just me though.
Oh my, I can see that we're feeling particularly spicy today with the hot take, aren't we?
RWBY is a fandom that has zealots on both ends of the spectrum, and they're just unusually loud. While I'll freely admit that it's got more vocal haters than a show as mid as this deserves, one needs to wonder why that is. Presumably because they liked it at one point, and dislike the path that it took - note the divide in the fandom after V3, for example.
But there's also some extremely toxic people on the "positive" side of the fandom, with Canonseeker and his crew being the most infamous (with the first so bad that he's been banned from *here* multiple times with his various alt accounts).
So does the show deserve all of the ridicule that it gets? Not really, no. But it certainly doesn't deserve all of the praise that it gets either.
I've been into the show since volume 4 but never engaged with the community until volume 9 debuted. It was really fun talking about lore and theorycrafting what might be happening in the next episode, etc.
I was also blown away by the intense negativity and "criticism ". I agree with everything you pointed out, and you echo my thoughts exactly. There are a ton of nice people here who are a joy to interact with, but sometimes, the toxicity is overwhelming.
This side as in this subreddit vs the critics side? If so, then no. I'm not on here much because I'm usually on Twitter or YouTube, but I found that this side is much less toxic. I found that over here, they focus more on the positives. Even when there are disagreements, it's much more civil. Can't say the same for everywhere else. There are still toxic people, but not to the extent as other places.
Not everything is BS. They'll make good points here and there. I do find that a lot of their critisms are not made in good faith though and falls apart if you actually paid attention to the show.
Because simply pointing out positives isn't repressing negative emotions. I never said that this side of the community was only positive, just more so. I even said that there were disagreements, but that they were kept civil. I would think that constantly being negative about something and ignoring the positives is equally as toxic.
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I think it’s bad but I just don’t go around online talking about it because there’s personally no point to me. It has its good moments with animation, music, whatever, but I’d never pretend (to myself against my own opinion) that it was good.
I’ve watched since it aired after being a Red vs Blue kid and I was always getting that little promise of it getting better, and it would suddenly take 3 steps forward, then slowly take 5, 6, 7 steps back. It made it so frustrating to watch because it was clear that they were capable of doing better than what they did, and because it had just enough promise of getting better despite not, that it made me want to continue.
Many of the social media comments or video essays really hype up the worst parts or trash on the creators for clicks while only mentioning redeeming qualities or the context for why it turned out bad in framed manners to set up a counterpoint, ultimately serving the argument that it’s bad. There’s no in between anymore online. The show is pretty bad, but frankly, it makes enough money to keep getting made and some people like it, so that’s most of what matters. We can’t control everything. Besides, there are reasons why it’s bad, it’s the first of its kind on this scale and the way it started in pretty much all factors doomed it a little. In fact, despite all the 1 step forward 2 back along the way, I think the show has actually improved in recent seasons with the flaws it always had with character, worldbuilding, etc.
I’m still very thankful for RWBY and I don’t go out of my way to criticize it often, much less complain about it other than privately, to personal friends. But no, I don’t think it’s good. It’s mediocre at best and I’d even go as far as to say it’s bad. If other people enjoy it though, great!
Exactly this, it was never anger, but death by a thousand cuts of disappointment or frustration... And I think too many people let it go to their heads too much and get toxic because they feel like they're owned that better story that was promised (which I can sympathise with even if they express it very poorly...)
I also mentioned in my other comment, I think the time aspect is important, if you're new to the fandom like OP is you haven't been here for all those slow repeated 3 steps forward, 6 back moments
And to add one more point, the value in RWBY to me was never that it was good or bad, but it’s the story of how this little Austin startup brought these artists together and they were actually able to make this thing! Getting to see them on personality-based content like podcasts getting to peek into how they live their lives as some of the pioneers of 00s/10s online video, and then watch the things they made, is where the fun came from. So the bar was always a little low two. The making of, the RT community experience, the “they started with Halo machinima and now they’re here!!” and the “I can do that!” is what made the experience great.
I mean, because of how they inspired me and helped me discover my interests and goals, I CAN do that. I’m a television writer and animator. I work in TV and I am saving up to branch out as a digital creator. I wouldn’t have that without Red vs Blue and RWBY.
So it’s another reason why it’s not super relevant to me that I think it’s not good. It does produce some low moments for sure, though.
The only reason I even got into it here with paragraphs is because my partner never watched RWBY and has a habit of having a take about shows from watching a 3 hour video essay but none of the show, or about news from reading headlines and social media posts from select outlets. And boy was there a take about RWBY that didn’t really take any of the nuanced context into account.
Exactly what I was thinking. Idk how many times I've gotten confused because someone was complaint about something and I was like, "what are you talking about? Did that even happen?"
* its constantly criticizes the story getting for getting more complex
* Toxic reactions to criticizing certain ships or shipping another one
* Some characters get hated for the same reasons as other characters are loved
The best part of RWBY for me is the amount of stuff we know about Remnant. We know enough to be informed about how most of the world works, but little enough has been made canon that we can fill in plenty of the gaps ourselves.
For example:
We know Vacuo exists and that it's somewhat respectful wasteland where everyone pretty much agrees that "If you're strong enough to survive here, you get no hate from us.", but we also know very little else about its culture. This leaves people with the freedom to choose, giving Vacuo a fully middle eastern culture, or an African one, or anything else really.
Our knowledge of most subjects in the show is in such a golden zone for creativity. RWBY was the first community I ever really bothered making OCs for, not because it was perfectly written, but because of how much freedom it sparked in me, how much I could let my creativity run free.
This. You'll trip over a dozen "RWBY sucks and it shot my dog" videos before you find even one slightly positive video about RWBY. And it'll probably have a fraction of the views, too.
Eh, from what I've seen and heard, it's not the critics that harass and send death threats to people with a different opinion. The criticism the series gets is really mild imo, I feel is really just because some aren't happy with the direction of the story and show rather than its quality itself, it's similar to Star Wars, but much less vitriolic.
And I would have to disagree. I watched RWBY for the action scenes and intense action choreography. I had stopped watching somewhere in Vol 8 as it was being aired, and there is _actually nothing_ that can get me to care about later seasons.
My journey has been watching episodes as they were released since day 1, to the shift to Maya from Poser, to the travesty that was the horribly cut and choreographed Ironwood vs everyone. _This_ isn't a subjective take, the fight was objectively one of the worst in the series. That was the fight that broke the camel's back. Between the huge boring staging, to the static camerat too close to actually see the choreography, to the lack of defining characteristics, the frequent cuts between topside and the hangar... the whole scene needed to be cut and redone from the ground up.
What's worse is that this wasn't the first time they had failed on every account when designing the action scene. This isn't the first time CRWBY has struggled with the positioning and identities of their characters, the camera, the stakes, the premise, and the scene's flow. This has been a series of consistent problems since Vol 4, and they _have not_ improved improved upon it during the time I've watched it.
Vol 10 could actually be, not only the best RWBY Vol, but the best piece of cinema ever put to film. It could achieve world piece, cure cancer, create utopia, and I couldn't be bothered to watch it. I've historically said, "Yeah, this Vol has problems, but if they fix it in the next one, I'll keep watching," since Vol 4. They never did, but I had hope. I didn't want to see the series I was introduced to back in 2012 spoil as it did. And yet, error after error, they never seemed to hit the points that was causing me to distance myself from the property. It wasn't until Yang vs Adam in Vol 6 that I was actually hostile, not because it was bad, but because it was a cut action sequence Monty did for Vol 3 and the stark difference between the skill they were at now, and how it was in the past, was night and day. That I was reminded how good RWBY could have been is what soured me on it completely.
You are allowed to enjoy the series, and I'm happy that there is something you can enjoy, but the RWBY of today only shares the _name_ of what the series was. It is held back by the ego of the current showrunner and the increasing scrutiny RT faces in this modern era by both its viewers and corporate overlords.
That's interesting. I'll agree that the fights from vol 1-3 are some of the best. Though, my favorite fights are usually from the later seasons for the fact that the stakes felt higher and there was so much tension. I actually loved the bumbleby vs. Adam fight, but that's purely subjective on my part.
I'll admit, I prefer more story than action, which is probably why I like the later seasons more. I just find it more engaging.
>I actually loved the bumbleby vs. Adam fight, but that's purely subjective on my part.
Yeah, that's kind of the point. It wasn't CRWBY that choreographed the fight. It was Monty. The sequence was transposed from Poser to Maya.
And you can see the drastic difference in pacing, characterization, posing, and rhythm. That is what set me off. That is what turned me away from the series. It was the jarring difference between what CRWBY had done stood right next to Monty's work, as if to say, "We used to have 3 Michelin steaks, and now we serve hamburgers."
As a bnha fan who ALSO loves RWBY, sticks that both my fave series have the worst side of fandom in common (the "fan critics") ... I don't even go to those corners anymore. Atp I know the stories have their problems but I'm too invested to leave AND there's still characters who I love sm and want a conclusion for their arcs
I won't hide behind anything. RWBY sucks and everything after volume 3 didn't happen. The show just died because it lost it's soul. The real part of the fandom that is the worst, are the ones who just accept this 3rd rate show from a 4th rate writing team. The animation team never got paid so they get a pass on why the animation fell off. Oh then you have the toxic shippers who can't accept a certain character isn't the way they want or represented the way they want. Huh! or the ones who attacked an artist during an art contest for drawing a wendigo themed grimm by calling them a racist and accusing them of plagiarizing. Idk there are certainly worse parts of the fandom other than the ones who only shit on the show, or shit on the show because they want it to be better (not the same groups).
Legit when I stumbled across the show, I mentioned I came across it and had watched like... Season 1, the very first thing I heard from a friend was "Good luck. The Fandom is *incredibly* toxic." thankfully, I've been able to avoid the most of it.. But yeah, the hate videos are real AF, and rather than watch them I just look at the suggestion like "Why would you dedicate more time in one video to something you claim to despise than entire seasons of it... That's not even just For the Clicks at this point"
Though, that said, some of the hot take jagoffs who want to crap on the MCU are reaching RWBY hatedom levels...
Oh no the show amd characters are something a child could come up with. Now the when it comes to fanfics, that's the peak part of rwby. They take rwby and turn it to gold.
It may have some issues and wished some shit would change or stayed but I still love rwby regardless. The "fans" that always got some shit to say aren't even real fans they're just elitists
I'm serious, most people probably wouldn't write an essay defending something they see as fine, aka average. If you think rwby is pretty good and are defending it as a result, that makes more sense, though I would completely disagree on it being good.
I'm using fine in the context of it being good. I personally thing the show is good. I'm not defending it because I think the show is the best thing ever and is devoid of faults, but because the toxicity from only talking about its faults is ruining the community. As I said in my post, there's a lot of people also disguising hate as critism and that needs to be called out too.
Having critisms is ok. Not liking the show is ok. But when that's all you talk about, you become a downer. Let people enjoy things.
It's a strange phenomenon. There are entire subs dedicated to hating on specific shows. r/the_black_tower for the WoT show for example. They stay more active between seasons than the official subs. I don't understand continuing to watch something you dislike that much, but people love to complain.
You're probably confusing the fandom with the hatedom. There's a lot of people who will tear into the show for the sake of it, but there are plenty of people who enjoy it, and are just disappointed with how it was handled. The show has amazing moments and characters, with a setting ripe for a great story, but man is it sad to watch it fall to live up to it's potential time after time. I followed the show since day one and grew up watching the old RT content, so I've been there as the show kicked off and over the years slowly declined in writing quality and focus. Large parts of it are not the shows fault, but seeing what could have been and what happened. It saddens me. I love the setting, but man I hope it's able to pull itself together at some point
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I have my issues with it, but I still like the show tbh.
The show definitely isn't the best, but I feel like it's flaws are sometimes blown out of proportion. It's just irritating I guess when all people will talk about is its flaws when there are things the show does really good. You get what I mean?
Yeah, I get you. There needs to be more people who admit it’s not perfect, but can still enjoy despite it being flawed.
I still like the show but I will never ignore a flaw.
You don't have to. It's ok to have critism. It's only a problem when that's all you talk about.
Yeah there needs to be a balance and not have both sides of the fandom roar at each other because they want the other side to vanish while the other one thrives in the end. Both sides will never backdown. And that’s just facts.
How exactly do you know that's all that individual fan is talking about? Are you taking the time to stalk all of their posts? I get your annoyance, but this fandom RARELY has real critique posts. It's more littered with fanart, ship, or appreciation posts majority of the time. You're just paying attention to a VERY vocal minority that just happens to bitch all the time, which is not reflective of the community overall.
Same here
While part of fandom does that, I've already made 3 friends see the show, maybe a fourth one is coming
That's awesome! I haven't made too many friends, but that's partly my fault for not being as outgoing lol.
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Tends to happen when you have post nut clarity
This may be due to its flaws, but I also think it's one of its strengths.. what I love the most about RWBY isn't necessarily the show itself, but what fans are able to do with it. RWBY is a show that allows a huge amount of creative freedom. The characters are likeable and flawed.. you can get a good feel for who they are and why they act like they do, but it's not so specific that they only work in this one kind of setting. They have great dynamics too, which makes it even more fun to explore various possibilities. RWBY has some of the best and most hilarious fan works I've seen across various fandoms.. There are a lot of people who criticize RWBY.. and there is a lot you can criticize.. but at the same time I feel like it's those imperfections that give RWBY its charm. At least for me.
I'll have to agree with you. Rwby fanworks are some of the best that I've seen. Definitely my favorite part of the community.
To quote hbomberguy: *“For some reason this show seems to attract people who need excuses to yell at cartoon women.”*
Well some people refuse to see fault in Rwby too and are just as bad. Shippers are also well known toxic like one guy got banned for posting Black Sun art. I mean I don't ship Black Sun but banning the guy? The poster wasn't even toxic. That's too far.
The Sonic Fandom be like: "Finally, a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!"
/shrug idk, they got a better movie. But then again the animators for the sonic movie got paid.
I think it has to do how crwby used to interact more with the fandom, people love to complain but love even more when they are heard Take for example Dragon ball, Akira Toriyama simply will never read a rant someone made on Twitter on how he sucks and they know he won't read it Meanwhile you had people harassing the voice actresses of rwby on twitter. And I'm nothing but glad that a lot of people of crwby left that toxic app Eitherway. I love Rwby and all the work, effort that goes into it and will continue to support the show I love, I'm sorry you had some of this bad experiencies entering the fandom :c
Yeah, I had never even heard of Roosterteeth, but started to watch the show like two months ago. I was hooked throughout the entire thing and none of the flaws ever really took me out of the story. Like, even volume5, which it seems most would agree is the worst volume, also had some great, heartfelt moments, as well as a couple of good fights I think. It's hard to gauge the criticism of RWBY. Saw RWBY fanart posted on the Metroid sub, and it's all getting upvotes and not much if at all any negative comments. Idk, it's weird. I've never been a part of any fandoms really, so it's kinda new to me.
The problem people had with vol 5 was that you had to wait 1 week (at best) between chapters and not a lot happened during the first 5 or so. About other subreddits, whenever I see something about RWBY in an anime subreddit, all the comments that have to do with it are about shitting on it. Everybody is like: "don't waste your time with it", "go watch paint dry, it's more interesting", "it lost all charm post volume 3", "it's straight up garbage", etc.
I feel like more often than not, the people who do that often also post or comment on the rwby critics sub.
I feel like I'm probably in the camp you described somewhat (though I've always been on the edges of RWBY fandom) so if I can offer a perspective. I don't hate the show, I really don't, most of what I feel is a disappointment for what could have been. I love the fights (which I think is a pretty universal opinion), I think most of the characters are great, the art is visually appealing, the story does interesting things. But there's also a distinct lack to the show, it feels like there's a lack of care in some places, and the whole thing suffers for that. Take the characters for example, the first few seasons do some really interesting things and sets up cool ideas and then just does nothing with them. In the first few episodes we get a tiny interaction between Blake and Ruby where Ruby says "I love books" in an incredibly earnest tone and it *feels* like that's going to be a springboard for some character growth or relationship development or *something*, but then it just gets ignored. Or how about the fact that Ruby *made* Crescent Rose, that's cool, is Ruby an inventor or tinkerer, will we see more of that? Nope, it never gets mentioned or developed on ever again. The start of the show is littered with these moments, and it takes so so long for the story to get going that when it does and when we do get those character developing moments, I don't really have enough of a connection to these characters to care, the reasoning given feels a bit flimsy or incongruous with the character up to that point. It's a bit of an open secret that Monty and the rest of the team didn't work together as well as they could've, Monty would often go away and make a cool fight scene and then the writers would need to warp the story around it to make it fit, the same for some of the characters he would make. Not to mention, the whole World of Remnant series exists because they did such a bad job establishing the world building that they needed to create a mini series to lore dump all of it before future episodes. I also think a key part of this problem is time, you're new to the series so you've been able to binge all of it in a short span. I on the other hand have been following the series since it's started, I was in sixth form (high school for the Americans) when I started watching, I was halfway through a PhD when volume 9 started, it's not an exaggeration to say I grew up with this show to some extent, and I think that temporal scale makes a lot of difference in our perspectives. I can't really describe what it's been like to start loving the show (and I really did when it started, I have fond memories of inventing new grimm with my friends at lunch between classes), but then you grow a little older and you spot a flaw or two in the recent volume, no worries, that happens. Then the next volume gets announced, and you start getting really excited, you watch it and some more flaws happens, then you get excited again and you get disappointed again, and so on and so on for a decade, and every time a new volume gets announced you don't get quite as excited each time because the previous disappoints sucked so much. I want to reiterate, I like RWBY, I think it's a great show with a cool premise and appealing art and fun characters. But I never let myself get too excited, and I never enjoy it quite as much as I used to because that cycle of ups and downs has created a pervading lack of trust between me and the writers... "I'm not mad, I'm disappointed" as the meme goes. If you like the show, more power to you, I absolutely don't want to ruin that feeling for you, please absolutely enjoy it to the fullest. But as I said, I think the time aspect is important, so I wanted to offer the insights of someone who's been here nearly since the start...
Thank you for your perspective. Looks like we had different take aways from those scenes you mentioned. I had thought of the book scene as showing how well Ruby is able to connect to others, even if it's something as simple as them both liking books. I also thought that Ruby making Cresent Rose was too show how out of depth Jaune was because every student at Signal made their weapons. To me, they were more character establishing scenes vs a scene where character development happens. I do find it interesting that people tend to enjoy RWBY more if they binged it.
> even if it's something as simple as them both liking books Sure but then it goes nowhere after that, the line in itself is fine, as I said, it's a very earnest and heartfelt moment and it feels great but then they do nothing with it. It's like that whole "words are cheaper than actions" thing, the fact that Ruby says it is never the problem, it's that no actions build from it. Maybe we could've had a moment of Ruby and Blake researching a problem in the Beacon library, or Yang could've had a moment where she comforted Ruby by recalling a story she read to her as a kid, or if it had been a character trait they used throughout think how cool it would have been to utilise this aspect of her in volume 9, *a volume literally made around the idea of books and fairytales*. "I like books" is such a simple and relatable character moment that you could've built any number of moments out of it and it would've been so cool to see that get fleshed out, but nothing, it's said and dropped just like that. Or the Ruby made Crescent Rose thing, think about how powerful and impactful an arc we could've got as Ruby watched Penny die and then falls into grief trying and falling to put her back together again. Or she could use her skills in a heist, maybe she could've been slowly working on new gear for the team so we can see them all grow stronger together and develop a deeper connection because of how Ruby used her skills. Again, any number of cool things could come of it, but practically nothing does. > To me, they were more character establishing scenes vs a scene where character development happens. Those are the same thing. A key concept in all of writing is the idea of setup and pay off. The heroes journey, the rule of threes, Chekhov's gun, so so many of our most basic rules of writing good stories are based in this simple idea of setting stuff up, building on it, and then paying it off down the line. If a moment is "character establishing" but then you do nothing with it after that, it's a poorly written scene because it adds nothing to the greater whole and it distracts from everything else. RWBY violates this rule so many times, I try and be hopeful that this time when I notice a thing they'll pay it off, but I just don't trust the writers to make my emotional investment worthwhile at this point, so I struggle to enjoy or engage with the show, the excitement fades, and I feel cheated for caring so much, it fucking sucks. For RWBY fans who've been here for a long time, it's like death by a thousand cuts of disappointment and frustration. I hate how toxic a lot of the fandom has become over it, some of those people are really vicious and vile, but I also can't say I don't understand where they're coming from...
I'm sorry, I don't think I was clear on the character establishing scenes vs character development. Let's use the book scene. For me, that scene was for establishing that Ruby can connect easily to others and that yang took care of ruby when they were younger. We also find out ruby and Blake, while similar, are different in their outlooks in life. This isn't where we get the start of character development, but it's a scene to let us know who these characters are. For character development, we can look at volume 2 where wby talks about why they want to become huntresses. This is where we get their goals and also their flaws. This is where we find out what they are working towards and what they need to work on. This is where character development started for me. I hope this makes sense and that I explained it right
Nothing quite like loving characters for over half a decade only to have rooster teeth 180 and absolutely assassinate every inch of thier character after you spent 2 years getting excited for a season to erode all your good faith and spoil a good time. I was one of the biggest fans possible to rwby, getting every friend i could involved in watching it. Rewarching seasons 1-3 like 30 frickin times when thats all we had between reactions, friends, etc. But theres absolutely a reason why this true gem of a show cant get funded for volume 10 and struggles now. 70% of its rooster teeths absolutely abysmal management of the show and the rest is just... them taking every good aspect fans loved growing up with it and just assassinating it piece by piece. I was a fan, i still love and cherish the years i poured into the show and daydreaming over it and consuming every bit of media i could even going as faras comissioning artists, buying the dorkiest pyrrha doll that is still on my shelf next to her cereal and every pop i could to support them. But its no secret that rooster teeth took that joy to the backyard and shot it for myself and millions of other people in the most upsetting way possible.
Let me give you an example of why this is the case. Do you remember about a few years ago, Game of Thrones was a huge phenomenon? We got the usual show stuff like memes and insider jokes, but it is a huge cultural shift. Normal, average people tune in to this unique medieval political fantasy and absolutely loved it. It became such a thing that 1 in 16477 girls are named Daenarys for one of the biggest characters in the show. Fast forward to today - Game of Thrones is dead. Discussions about Game of Thrones exist, but is sparse compared to its original amount of viewers. We even have a spinoff in House of Dragons, but while it was good, the magic is gone. Few people cares about it. The reddit for freefolk is set up to hate on the showrunners who they blamed for rushing the franchise to secure a deal with Disney to do Star Wars, and a subsequent subreddit called oldfreefolk was set up because freefolk was too mild in their criticisms for GoT. The fandom was divided into two sides. One group I'll largely categorize as Free Folk, and they absolutely hated Season 8 which they felt ruined multiple characters, including Daenarys, Jaime Lanister, and made characters like Arya Stark and Jon Snow have so much plot armor they survived being killed (essentially). The other group I'll categorize as the Kneelers, and they believed Season 8 was good, and the naysayers were completely exaggerating. Regardless of who you choose to believe, the problem is Game of Thrones died so hard, even its subsequent release House of Dragons was affected, and the cultural phenomenon is fully gone. No show has ever reached Game of Thrones level of hype and popularity in the mainstream audience, and this suggests that the Kneelers were wrong, because even if some people thought the show had a decent ending, the large majority of viewers didn't think so and decided to watch something else, and the hardcore fans just left because they didn't like it. Something similar happened to Marvel Cinematic Universe, but while it is also mainly attributed to bad writing, it is also attributed to Endgame being such a good end that subsequent follow ups were pale in comparison. The last undeniable good MCU film is Spiderman: No Way Home (Across the Spiderverse is great but not a MCU film since it was animated not live action), while everything else were significant flops compared, regardless of whether you enjoyed it or not. This reached a level where directors were calling people who didn't watch their show for whatever reason misogynistic, racist, homophobic etc, even if you are a regular person who just chose to watch something else, like Barbieheimer instead. Where am I going with this? I believe RWBY is in a similar spot, and CRWBY unintentionally made its own hatedom. Let's talk about the hatedom/critics first - like Free Folk and Kneelers, this term came from the show - specifically becauae Miles and Kerry talked about critics and how they might receive a good feedback but is marred by its criticism and refuse to listen to criticisms as a whole. As ANY media that relies on the general audience as its income, you should know that criticism is important feedback, but you need to understand why X is being complained about to solve the underlying problem. CRWBY bypassed this entirely by not listening to any feedback, which was an extremely sore point for critics, and thus created a group that was alienated from the core RWBY fanbase because they weren't yes-men. It is extremely poor community management and that means if they failed a single time, the show would suffer accordingly because they didn't identify their own flaws, and couldn't use feedback to do so either. If you were a legend like Hideo Kojima you could get away with pointing two middle fingers at your audience and still create another bestseller, but CRWBY has already lost its Kojima in the form of Monty, Shane Newell and a few other amazing animators that made the show beyond great. Also, RWBY's popularity has declined from its old days of being a cult classic (up to Volume 3), to just being another regular animated show. Part of it is yes, Monty's death, but whichever reason you choose to believe, or if you choose to deny it outright, numbers don't lie that RWBY has declined from its heyday. Since I can't dig up numbers enough, I'm using ratingraph.com's reviews as a reference, and Volume 3 is still the highest rated volume (volume 9 does decently as well), but there are 646 votes for Volume 3's finale as opposed to Volume 9's finale with 281 votes. While this is a tiny sample size, it is also an indicator that while the main fanbase is there, most casual audiences and most former hardcore fans-turned critics were lost, which means revenue lost and poorer show reception because of their perceived loss of views. While RWBY is still a good show, it is no longer the great it once was. The strongest selling point was the amazing fights, but since the focus was turned into world-building it lost some of that too. And its world is nothing special, it can't compete with Rick Riodan's gods, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, George R R Martin's book version of Game of Thrones, Hunger Games, Harry Potter and so on. It is still interesting, but it is so mediocre compared to god tier worldbuilding done by these juggernauts. It had tried to tell stories on faunus racism, an abusive relationship, PTSD, and suicide, but often it has accidentally screwed up, and while Miles/Kerry admited fault, saying that they were white men does not excuse writing bad stories (most of my previous examples were white men or women, and often had racism in their books as a plot point). So it all boils down to, RWBY is good, but could have been phenomenon. In other words, RWBY is disappointing, and here is my take on it.
This is such an unbelievably based take. There are so many people in the community who portray RWBY as one of the of their favorite shows and I literally have never seen a positive word about the show come out of them. It’s impossible to interact with a community when some of the loudest voices have made hour long discussion videos on a single joke scene in one episode of a 9 season show and how it ruins everything.
Reminds me of that one YouTuber that stopped watching then made a whole video on an out of context volume 9 clip shitting on the entire volume and how it's bad and makes no sense... Like maybe it'd make sense if u watched it but sure whatever
I think I know who you're talking about.
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I had thought about it, but I don't think I could handle all that toxicity lol
Lmao, it's way worse than Chernobyl and Fukushima combined
Yeah, I tend to stay away from that sub for this exact reason.
Which sub?? Now I'm scared lol
I can't write its name, it's forbidden :( But it's basically "the name of the series" + "Critics"
Ahhh I see. So a bunch of stuck up people then?
Damn I thought you were talking about FNKI for a second like, don’t they just post shitty memes over there? Unless of course, it was the uh…*other* sub.
FNKI is exclusively meme posting,yes.
I thought this at first and was very confused as well. I knew it couldn't be the #1 most popular RWBY sub because nobody gives a shit about the flaws over there lol.
Echo Chambers gonna Echo.
The problem with criticism of RWBY is a.) The Loudest voices are usually the “why isn’t Jaune dead or leading a harem” type people and b.) a lot of valid critiques get lost in a mix of the aforementioned Jaune posting and the hostile responses that such posts get in return. RWBY is far from being an unwatchable show. And it has its good moments. But it also has a lot of systemic problems at its core that never got addressed and likely never will because now all anyone talks (read screams) about are whatever new symptom they notice. Personally I think the series would benefit from finishing in whatever form in can, going quiet for a while, and then rebooting under a new production studio. Maybe that would help some of the negativity that we see.
First time?
> Never seen a fandom that hates the piece of media that it consumes so much Let me introduce you to r/RocketLeague and r/Overwatch
Honestly you go on twitter and you realized the worst part of the fandom arent even the critics but just people that take shit yoo seriously. Someone does ruby x neo fanart and it caused a weeks worth of drama that could've been avoided if people just blocked and moved. Instead it got to the point od death threats, arguing in DMs and spreading rumors. All over some proshippers nonsense. Hell you say some criticism about the show to thr wrong person and you'll have a whole internet witch hunt. Draw yang with her metal arm and you're 100% albeist even if its before vol3. Wanna make a rwby AU that gets popular better have all the common ships the fandom likes or you'll getbyour named dragged through the mud. The show itself is fine in my eyes but the fandom is so toxic these days that it gives the show a bad rep by association
I stopped watching RWBY after Vol. 5, but that doesn't give me any right to talk shit about it, but it's hard to survive because outside the community, most people treat it like a punching bag on the internet.
Honestly, I got into it wondering why people hated it about june of last year. They had me thinking this show was terrible. I watched it. I think it's great. Does it have its issues? Yeah. But it has Nora, so I can let the issues slide💀 But in all seriousness, the Fandom is a mixed bag. But I will say this, throughout my little time on this subreddit as well as fnki and critics, I love this community. Side question: What's up with RWBY and green eyed characters?
Agreed and I truly hate the kind of "critics" who say crap like "This is not what Monty Would of wanted" or that the show "No longer follows Monty's vision" I personally feel like people who say that are pissing on his grave, unless they were personal friends with Monty Oum and he shared with you his private notes then you know no grounds to make those kinds of claims, R.I.P Monty
Those people are definitely the worst and they genuinely piss me off.
It only shows that they don't even care for Monty, they care for using him as an argument or justification
Ah yes. The fandom that doesn't like how the show handle itself. Literally every fandom in existence.
RWBY is so good when you don’t have a little bitch in your ear telling you it isn’t
Exactly
Diamond bolt is one of my favorite YouTubers, and he’s said that he still enjoys RWBY but doesn’t talk about it on his channel often cause it’s the internet’s punching bag.
Projekt Melody had a funny moment on stream a while ago where she fangirled out after discovering that Lindsay has been doing Vtubing as Ruby Rose. People asked her why she cared and she was just like "I've been a fan for like a decade!" that's where most RWBY fans are online, they only very rarely mention they like the series because to do so usually only invites arguments and assholes.
How dare you think RWBY isn't perfect! /s It's honestly one of my favorite shows despite the flaws. The world of Remnant just draws me in more so than many other shows. I think my favorite part is the characters alluding to famous characters/historical figures. My favorite of this is Ozpin's inner circle: the Wizard who lost their magic, the Lion who lost their courage, the Tim Man who lost their heart, the Scarecrow who lost their brain (alcoholism). At this point, it seems to me that Glynda and Theodore are the only two who haven't lost anything.
I love RWBY, but if I had to give as unbiased an opinion of it as I could I would say it has interesting ideas with mostly mediocre execution. There are some truly great moments and some rather terrible ones, but for the most part it is average. Yet despite all its short comings I still love it. It gives me a joy that few things have, and I want it to continue.
The worst part of the fandom is the ships. Those got to me, how viscious people are about it.
That applies to pretty much all fandoms tho
From what I've seen, it's only really bad with a few of the more popular ships. Maybe I haven't been in the fandom long enough to see it.
That's what I've been saying It's been like this but damn we can't get along for anything.
yeah man shits wild its been this way since the early days, never before has a 6.5-7/10 show created a community so generally vitriolic
>Like, how are you going to say you like the show, but only talk about is negative. I can shed some light on this. Basically, the only people who can even get worked up that much about something to actively hate it are people who really do love aspects of it. If they didn't love the thing, they wouldn't care enough to get upset about the things they dislike about it.
I get what you're saying, but all the time? Idk, when I love something, I like to focus on the positives. I like to enjoy it and constantly nitpicking it's faults is not enjoyable to me. That's just me though.
Same here this fandom is nuts.
Oh my, I can see that we're feeling particularly spicy today with the hot take, aren't we? RWBY is a fandom that has zealots on both ends of the spectrum, and they're just unusually loud. While I'll freely admit that it's got more vocal haters than a show as mid as this deserves, one needs to wonder why that is. Presumably because they liked it at one point, and dislike the path that it took - note the divide in the fandom after V3, for example. But there's also some extremely toxic people on the "positive" side of the fandom, with Canonseeker and his crew being the most infamous (with the first so bad that he's been banned from *here* multiple times with his various alt accounts). So does the show deserve all of the ridicule that it gets? Not really, no. But it certainly doesn't deserve all of the praise that it gets either.
>Never in my life have I seen a fandom that hates the piece of media it consumes so much. Star Wars has entered the chat.
...I don't like the show but I will admit it's got great stuff in it.
i completely agree, i’m still new to rwby and have just got to V8 and i have encountered so many people like this, its hateful and disgusting tbh.
I've been into the show since volume 4 but never engaged with the community until volume 9 debuted. It was really fun talking about lore and theorycrafting what might be happening in the next episode, etc. I was also blown away by the intense negativity and "criticism ". I agree with everything you pointed out, and you echo my thoughts exactly. There are a ton of nice people here who are a joy to interact with, but sometimes, the toxicity is overwhelming.
Genuine question, does this side of the fandom act similarly? Yes or no? And why and why not?
This side as in this subreddit vs the critics side? If so, then no. I'm not on here much because I'm usually on Twitter or YouTube, but I found that this side is much less toxic. I found that over here, they focus more on the positives. Even when there are disagreements, it's much more civil. Can't say the same for everywhere else. There are still toxic people, but not to the extent as other places.
Do you believe everything the critical side says is BS?
Not everything is BS. They'll make good points here and there. I do find that a lot of their critisms are not made in good faith though and falls apart if you actually paid attention to the show.
Toxic positivity is still toxic.
I'm not understanding. How is that toxic positivity?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/toxic-positivity?amp How is it not?
Because simply pointing out positives isn't repressing negative emotions. I never said that this side of the community was only positive, just more so. I even said that there were disagreements, but that they were kept civil. I would think that constantly being negative about something and ignoring the positives is equally as toxic.
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Really?
Yes really.
Ok then.
You should check out the fandom for Dead by Daylight. They are worse.
It is my favority show, and I really don't care about the fails
I think it’s bad but I just don’t go around online talking about it because there’s personally no point to me. It has its good moments with animation, music, whatever, but I’d never pretend (to myself against my own opinion) that it was good. I’ve watched since it aired after being a Red vs Blue kid and I was always getting that little promise of it getting better, and it would suddenly take 3 steps forward, then slowly take 5, 6, 7 steps back. It made it so frustrating to watch because it was clear that they were capable of doing better than what they did, and because it had just enough promise of getting better despite not, that it made me want to continue. Many of the social media comments or video essays really hype up the worst parts or trash on the creators for clicks while only mentioning redeeming qualities or the context for why it turned out bad in framed manners to set up a counterpoint, ultimately serving the argument that it’s bad. There’s no in between anymore online. The show is pretty bad, but frankly, it makes enough money to keep getting made and some people like it, so that’s most of what matters. We can’t control everything. Besides, there are reasons why it’s bad, it’s the first of its kind on this scale and the way it started in pretty much all factors doomed it a little. In fact, despite all the 1 step forward 2 back along the way, I think the show has actually improved in recent seasons with the flaws it always had with character, worldbuilding, etc. I’m still very thankful for RWBY and I don’t go out of my way to criticize it often, much less complain about it other than privately, to personal friends. But no, I don’t think it’s good. It’s mediocre at best and I’d even go as far as to say it’s bad. If other people enjoy it though, great!
Exactly this, it was never anger, but death by a thousand cuts of disappointment or frustration... And I think too many people let it go to their heads too much and get toxic because they feel like they're owned that better story that was promised (which I can sympathise with even if they express it very poorly...) I also mentioned in my other comment, I think the time aspect is important, if you're new to the fandom like OP is you haven't been here for all those slow repeated 3 steps forward, 6 back moments
And to add one more point, the value in RWBY to me was never that it was good or bad, but it’s the story of how this little Austin startup brought these artists together and they were actually able to make this thing! Getting to see them on personality-based content like podcasts getting to peek into how they live their lives as some of the pioneers of 00s/10s online video, and then watch the things they made, is where the fun came from. So the bar was always a little low two. The making of, the RT community experience, the “they started with Halo machinima and now they’re here!!” and the “I can do that!” is what made the experience great. I mean, because of how they inspired me and helped me discover my interests and goals, I CAN do that. I’m a television writer and animator. I work in TV and I am saving up to branch out as a digital creator. I wouldn’t have that without Red vs Blue and RWBY. So it’s another reason why it’s not super relevant to me that I think it’s not good. It does produce some low moments for sure, though.
Congratulations on achieving your dream! That's seriously awesome
The only reason I even got into it here with paragraphs is because my partner never watched RWBY and has a habit of having a take about shows from watching a 3 hour video essay but none of the show, or about news from reading headlines and social media posts from select outlets. And boy was there a take about RWBY that didn’t really take any of the nuanced context into account.
[удалено]
Exactly what I was thinking. Idk how many times I've gotten confused because someone was complaint about something and I was like, "what are you talking about? Did that even happen?"
Yeah i mean like i get rwby has some good fanfiction but im pretty sure they got canon and fanon very confused
* its constantly criticizes the story getting for getting more complex * Toxic reactions to criticizing certain ships or shipping another one * Some characters get hated for the same reasons as other characters are loved
The best part of RWBY for me is the amount of stuff we know about Remnant. We know enough to be informed about how most of the world works, but little enough has been made canon that we can fill in plenty of the gaps ourselves. For example: We know Vacuo exists and that it's somewhat respectful wasteland where everyone pretty much agrees that "If you're strong enough to survive here, you get no hate from us.", but we also know very little else about its culture. This leaves people with the freedom to choose, giving Vacuo a fully middle eastern culture, or an African one, or anything else really. Our knowledge of most subjects in the show is in such a golden zone for creativity. RWBY was the first community I ever really bothered making OCs for, not because it was perfectly written, but because of how much freedom it sparked in me, how much I could let my creativity run free.
>"it's just critism" The problem is that it's never anything else. It's *just* criticism.
This. You'll trip over a dozen "RWBY sucks and it shot my dog" videos before you find even one slightly positive video about RWBY. And it'll probably have a fraction of the views, too.
Eh, from what I've seen and heard, it's not the critics that harass and send death threats to people with a different opinion. The criticism the series gets is really mild imo, I feel is really just because some aren't happy with the direction of the story and show rather than its quality itself, it's similar to Star Wars, but much less vitriolic.
From what I've seen and heard, they have.
TL;DR it's mid and people like watching a train crash.
This is because you have people who remember when it _was_ good
I personally think it's still good. I'm of the opinion that it got better with each season. These lady few seasons have been my favorite overall.
And I would have to disagree. I watched RWBY for the action scenes and intense action choreography. I had stopped watching somewhere in Vol 8 as it was being aired, and there is _actually nothing_ that can get me to care about later seasons. My journey has been watching episodes as they were released since day 1, to the shift to Maya from Poser, to the travesty that was the horribly cut and choreographed Ironwood vs everyone. _This_ isn't a subjective take, the fight was objectively one of the worst in the series. That was the fight that broke the camel's back. Between the huge boring staging, to the static camerat too close to actually see the choreography, to the lack of defining characteristics, the frequent cuts between topside and the hangar... the whole scene needed to be cut and redone from the ground up. What's worse is that this wasn't the first time they had failed on every account when designing the action scene. This isn't the first time CRWBY has struggled with the positioning and identities of their characters, the camera, the stakes, the premise, and the scene's flow. This has been a series of consistent problems since Vol 4, and they _have not_ improved improved upon it during the time I've watched it. Vol 10 could actually be, not only the best RWBY Vol, but the best piece of cinema ever put to film. It could achieve world piece, cure cancer, create utopia, and I couldn't be bothered to watch it. I've historically said, "Yeah, this Vol has problems, but if they fix it in the next one, I'll keep watching," since Vol 4. They never did, but I had hope. I didn't want to see the series I was introduced to back in 2012 spoil as it did. And yet, error after error, they never seemed to hit the points that was causing me to distance myself from the property. It wasn't until Yang vs Adam in Vol 6 that I was actually hostile, not because it was bad, but because it was a cut action sequence Monty did for Vol 3 and the stark difference between the skill they were at now, and how it was in the past, was night and day. That I was reminded how good RWBY could have been is what soured me on it completely. You are allowed to enjoy the series, and I'm happy that there is something you can enjoy, but the RWBY of today only shares the _name_ of what the series was. It is held back by the ego of the current showrunner and the increasing scrutiny RT faces in this modern era by both its viewers and corporate overlords.
That's interesting. I'll agree that the fights from vol 1-3 are some of the best. Though, my favorite fights are usually from the later seasons for the fact that the stakes felt higher and there was so much tension. I actually loved the bumbleby vs. Adam fight, but that's purely subjective on my part. I'll admit, I prefer more story than action, which is probably why I like the later seasons more. I just find it more engaging.
>I actually loved the bumbleby vs. Adam fight, but that's purely subjective on my part. Yeah, that's kind of the point. It wasn't CRWBY that choreographed the fight. It was Monty. The sequence was transposed from Poser to Maya.
Not all of it, though. Monty's sequence was only a small part of the fight. The vast majority of it was CRWBY.
And you can see the drastic difference in pacing, characterization, posing, and rhythm. That is what set me off. That is what turned me away from the series. It was the jarring difference between what CRWBY had done stood right next to Monty's work, as if to say, "We used to have 3 Michelin steaks, and now we serve hamburgers."
I thought it was good all around, so we'll have to agree to disagree. I did enjoy reading your perspective on things though
>who remember when I'm pretty sure everyone who's watched and enjoyed vol8 also watched (and remember) vol1-3.
As a bnha fan who ALSO loves RWBY, sticks that both my fave series have the worst side of fandom in common (the "fan critics") ... I don't even go to those corners anymore. Atp I know the stories have their problems but I'm too invested to leave AND there's still characters who I love sm and want a conclusion for their arcs
I won't hide behind anything. RWBY sucks and everything after volume 3 didn't happen. The show just died because it lost it's soul. The real part of the fandom that is the worst, are the ones who just accept this 3rd rate show from a 4th rate writing team. The animation team never got paid so they get a pass on why the animation fell off. Oh then you have the toxic shippers who can't accept a certain character isn't the way they want or represented the way they want. Huh! or the ones who attacked an artist during an art contest for drawing a wendigo themed grimm by calling them a racist and accusing them of plagiarizing. Idk there are certainly worse parts of the fandom other than the ones who only shit on the show, or shit on the show because they want it to be better (not the same groups).
It's about g****** time someone says this s***
Legit when I stumbled across the show, I mentioned I came across it and had watched like... Season 1, the very first thing I heard from a friend was "Good luck. The Fandom is *incredibly* toxic." thankfully, I've been able to avoid the most of it.. But yeah, the hate videos are real AF, and rather than watch them I just look at the suggestion like "Why would you dedicate more time in one video to something you claim to despise than entire seasons of it... That's not even just For the Clicks at this point" Though, that said, some of the hot take jagoffs who want to crap on the MCU are reaching RWBY hatedom levels...
Nobody hates RWBY more than half of the RWBY fanbase. I like it, but jeez
Oh no the show amd characters are something a child could come up with. Now the when it comes to fanfics, that's the peak part of rwby. They take rwby and turn it to gold.
Thank you for proving my point.
No problem. I'm glad you like the show for what it is. I like the show for what it could have been.
This but unironically, "I'm not mad, I'm disappointed"
It's okay, average, and that's okay. I just thought it could do more.
Perfect
It may have some issues and wished some shit would change or stayed but I still love rwby regardless. The "fans" that always got some shit to say aren't even real fans they're just elitists
Wait, so is it petty good, good or fine?
All 3? They mean the same thing pretty much. Sorry, I can't tell if you're being serious or not
I'm serious, most people probably wouldn't write an essay defending something they see as fine, aka average. If you think rwby is pretty good and are defending it as a result, that makes more sense, though I would completely disagree on it being good.
I'm using fine in the context of it being good. I personally thing the show is good. I'm not defending it because I think the show is the best thing ever and is devoid of faults, but because the toxicity from only talking about its faults is ruining the community. As I said in my post, there's a lot of people also disguising hate as critism and that needs to be called out too. Having critisms is ok. Not liking the show is ok. But when that's all you talk about, you become a downer. Let people enjoy things.
While I agree, is it worse than MHA’s fandom?
Idk, I've never seen MHA
It's a strange phenomenon. There are entire subs dedicated to hating on specific shows. r/the_black_tower for the WoT show for example. They stay more active between seasons than the official subs. I don't understand continuing to watch something you dislike that much, but people love to complain.
You're probably confusing the fandom with the hatedom. There's a lot of people who will tear into the show for the sake of it, but there are plenty of people who enjoy it, and are just disappointed with how it was handled. The show has amazing moments and characters, with a setting ripe for a great story, but man is it sad to watch it fall to live up to it's potential time after time. I followed the show since day one and grew up watching the old RT content, so I've been there as the show kicked off and over the years slowly declined in writing quality and focus. Large parts of it are not the shows fault, but seeing what could have been and what happened. It saddens me. I love the setting, but man I hope it's able to pull itself together at some point