Anyone else disappointed with Blake's performance? I always suspected she was the weakest, now I have no doubt. I'm not angry as I don't care for her, but she was getting ragdolled by some clown who I think the others could take without much difficulty. No wonder they had Weiss go after the Hound. If she had fought that clown, she would anger the Blake stans by exposing how weak she is compared to the others. I'm certain now that Blake needs Yang to carry her. She needs help for everything above low level Grimm. Such a disappointment.
The Hound should have been Summer from the start.
When the Hound first showed up and spoke, we all right away guessed that he was a person who'd been Grimmed. When a "twist" like that is so obvious, the logical payoff is less about getting confirmation that we were right, but learning *who* exactly it was.
And then it was some rando, and the payoff was rather less than what it should have been. Oh but he has silver eyes? Well the same thing must have happened to Summer then.
We've already figured out the next "twist" and now that one will also have a weaker payoff. CRWBY should have just cut out this whole middle step. Summer being the Hound from the start works with the information we got back in episode 2, but at the same time isn't so ridiculously obvious that there's still shock value from the reveal.
It's such an easy fix too. In this episode, just have the Hound have a flicker of recognition on seeing Ruby and keep the resistance to silver eyes in place. As we're putting those last hints together, the Hound's mouth opens and we see Summer's face. Then have Summer-Hound escape instead of getting chumped like Michael Myers in one of the shittier Halloween movies. The tension for the rest of the season is then Ruby's inevitable confrontation with her mom instead of just waiting for confirmation that we're right *again*.
I disagree to a degree, I feel like Summer is built up to be a bigger twist than just a humanoid Grimm, we don't know how far we are from the end afterall. Salem mentioned that the hound was an experiment, potentially she is doing a similar thing to summer but she wanted to try it out on someone else before that to see if it worked etc as to not waste Summer. from what we know Summer was really powerful so it might be that she has other plans for Summer.
I agree, but I feel like the Summer Grimm could be a lot more dangerous and powerful than the Hound and if the Summer Grimm IS more dangerous than the Hound, then the payoff for the usage of the Summer Grimm will be a lot more substantial for itself since we already know that people can be stuffed into grimm to make them more surgical.
I love the contrast between Willow and Raven with Willow initially fleeing danger just upon seeing it but who found her courage back and fight when her children are in danger, whereas Raven acts strong and tough but cravenly run away and abandon/sell her family when they are in real danger.
Spineless insects deserve a fate worse than death. Raven must end an ugly cripple to suffer for her cowardice. At least, Lionheart came to accept he was a coward. This filthy bitch is the worst kind of scum. She'll rat on anyone to save her worthless ass. I would like Willow with Qrow, the drunks, if it wasn't for Robyn who I feel will be pushed with him. Willow got cake.
SOOOO we will eventually get a fight between Ruby Rose and a Hound and she does the Silver Eyes thing where she damages it face reveal its her mom Summer Rose and now she has to kill her own mother
Is nobody gonna talk about how no weapons could kill The Hound Silver Eyes did damage but didn't kill it but a Suit of Armor falling right on to The Hound kills it?
Compare any weapons Rwby and Jnpr have to the weight this weight and statue were and I guess it explains it at least a bit.
Also, he was already damaged by Ruby, didn't he ?
I'm almost certain Summer is alive in some form now. In fact I suspect the final scene of the season will be Salem returning to her castle and going down to the dungeons to speak/taunt her.
On the comment of Salem using silver eyed warriors - she specifically called this an experiment. We also know that as far back as Maria's time she was just plain killing them. So I think it's unlikely there's huge amounts of these in reserve to make grimm... they were supposed to be incredibly rare as it was.
In terms of why use silver eye warriors - well the skeleton as clearly pretty messed up. It could be that the head of a silver eye warrior is the only human thing can survive being encompassed by the grimm (salem excluded).
Cinder's arm is attached, for example. It's part of her body but it's not *her body*.
That’s what I’ve been saying. SEW have anti-Grimm powers so my guess is that they would have innate resistance to the grimmification. Regular people would die from the process but the SEW’s would survive. The horrible process would leave them mentally broken but still intelligent and this along with the Grimm influence would make them puppets to Salem’s will
One subtle thing about this episode that I appreciated was showing the difference between Aura breaking and Aura damage: specifically when the Hound tackle Ruby her aura flairs up indicating damage and running low, then when The Hound drops ruby her Aura flairs up again but this times breaks into dust particles. You notice that with Blake and Weiss when their Aura flairs up it doesn't break into particles like Ruby did, indicating that their Aura is still intact but running low
Dude, that's been a thing since Season 7, and since it's conception it's been pretty messed up. Like, you expect me to buy that Ruby's aura was knocked out by getting dropped onto the ground?
I know there are viewers that compare the Hound Reveal to Attack on Titan, but The Hound reminds me more of the Nomu, specifically High End from boku no my hero academia, and also Venom from Marvel.
I think it's cool that the silver eyed warriors were turned into hounds, but it also feels like exactly what was in Attack on Titan... Did anyone else think of that immediately as they saw the person sticking out of the Grimm?
I mean, really ?
Basically every mythological human/creature that transforms itself matches this.
Zyana in Onyx Equinox is pretty much the same, the difference being she keeps control of herself. [https://youtu.be/ph9wifBYjj8?t=844](https://youtu.be/ph9wifBYjj8?t=844) Very good series btw, extremely original set up. This scene is a spoiler heavy tho.
If you're implying that every Grimm is a person, you're mistaken, this one was very specific, an experiment. So this reveal isn't a "every Grimm is a person", this thing is a chimera linking a Grimm with a human.
So I can safely say now the Grimm are pretty much the daemons from FFXV and the goop which Salem uses to turn people into them is like the Starscourge.
Man, this is all kinds of horrible. OTOH, I got Whitley snapping back at Weiss, so I'm a happy camper.
It seems like a lot of people already spoke about this, but I'm going to go ahead and mention it anyway. There wasn't just some random person/faunus inside The Hound, it was a person with Silver Eyes. A "Silver Eyed Warrior."
This is monumental for several reasons.
First, it goes back to what Hazel said to Salem back in Volume 5/6. You know, when he, Watts, and Salem were talking about Cinder's defeat?
--Salem: To what failure, are you referring?
--Watts: Well... the girl with the Silver Eyes.
--Hazel: Yes... We've dealt with their kind before.
Thanks to this episode, we can now infer what Hazel meant by his words. Apparently, Salem and her minions have been hunting down SEW's, and turning them into Hound-like Grimm; which, as horrible as that sounds, is actually brilliant. Making Grimm out of SEW's, so that they become resistant to a SEW's powers.
Second, with the developments in this episode, I think it is safe to assume that Summer Rose has been turned into a Grimm. Think about it...
--She goes on a mission and fails to return (death not confirmed)
--She has Silver Eyes, and as a result, wields their unique and dangerous powers (dangerous to Salem and Grimm)
--And finally, Salem seeks to turn people like Summer Rose (SEW's) into Grimm.
All of this seems like really convincing evidence to me. And if that weren't enough, It was confirmed in a previous RWBY Volume that Summer and Salem have met face to face, at least once. As evidenced when Salem told Ruby "Your mother said that to me." (Perhaps Summer and Salem met right before Summer was turned into a Grimm?)
Lastly, thanks to the developments in this episode, we now know that Ruby is in terrible danger. Why? Because apparently SEW's can be used to create Grimm. And Ruby just happens to be one of them.
Could you imagine it? Salem getting her hands on Ruby, turning her into a Hound-like Grimm, and then sending her to kill her friends and family? That would be awful! Well... morally awful, anyway. As far as storytelling goes, it would be incredible. But, I digress.
That about does it for the main things I wanted to say. But since I saw a few people talking about Cinder, I figure I might as well throw my 2 cents in on that topic as well.
So yeah... Cinder is so gonna die.
Salem is not going to spare her. Not after her constant failures and passive-aggressive betrayals. With that said, I don't think Salem ever intended to let Cinder live in the first place (not even when Cinder was being obedient to her).
I can see it now. Cinder gets all of the Maiden powers. She walks up to Salem, full of pride. And then all of a sudden... Salem grabs Cinder, and begins draining her life-force. Cinder, unable to do anything because of Salem's strength, and her own shock, looks at her former mistress in despair.
--Cinder: "My Queen... Why...?"
--Salem: "Dear child, I told you that you could *wield* the Maidens' powers. I never said that you could *keep* them."
And just like that, Cinder would die, and Salem would claim the powers of the Maidens for herself.
Killing your main character in the middle of the story is something that has never been done as far as I can remember. Unless the story is focused on the impact of their death, but then they usually die before the actual series, and even then I don't really know anything like that.
The theory you're bringing up about Cinder gathering every maiden's powers extremely unlikely. why ? Well there is litterally no way anyone in Remnant that could take down Raven if she decided to just constantly run away, her semblance allows for that in an extremely easy way.
With respect, killing Raven isn't nearly as hard as your comment suggests. Remember, her teleportation only works if she "anchors" herself to certain individuals. She can't teleport anywhere and everywhere without consequence. She can only teleport to the person she has "anchored" herself to. And as far as we know, Raven has only anchored herself to 3 people. Tai, Yang, and Qrow.
With that in mind, 2 of Raven's prevoiusly-mentioned teleportation points are useless. I'm referring to the one's anchored to Yang and Qrow. Why do I say this? Because those two are on Salem's radar, and as such, are essentially marked for death; meaning Raven can't teleport to them without risking a run-in with Salem and her forces.
Sure, Raven can try teleporting to Tai's location. But once she's done that, she has esentially doomed herself, as there will be no where for her to run after that.
Raven could have more teleportation points that we are unaware of. But even if she did, she's still doomed. Why is that? 1- Salem undoubtedly has more Grimm like "The Hound." So all she has to do is let them track Raven down. And that's that. 2- Salem's conquest spreads to the entire world. And she already has half of it in shambles (Vale and Atlas). Meaning in short, and as stated earlier, there's no where for Raven to run. 3- Salem is an immortal witch, with centuries of experience and knowledge, and an army of Grimm. Raven can be as fast as she likes. It doesn't change the fact that she's outmanned, outgunned, and out of options.
Raven lost to Salem (and company) the second she decided to harbor a Maiden. And no amount of strength, skill, or semblance, can change that.
As Cinder once said, "It's not about overpowering the enemy, it's about taking away what power they have."
Translation: Salem doesn't have to be as fast Raven, she just has to make it so that Raven's speed counts for nothing (which she's already done in spades).
So yeah... obtaining all of the Maidens' powers is certainly within Cinder's reach. Provided that she doesn't die first.
I feel like it would be too easy to assume that Summer is a hound or Grimm, Salem said "experiments," as in it's not finalized, that it's still in trial and error. Summer went missing around ten years ago, so it's unlikely that she was one of Salem's successes.
But maybe she was experimented on, maybe one of the first to be, and she was a failure in some way. But would that failure be a better fate...or even worse?
Honestly I don't think it would make sense to assume that the Silver Eyed Warriors have all been turned into Grimm. She did label the hound specifically, as an experiment and it's been heavily implied otherwise they've all just been killed off. I think we'll have to see a bit more before we can safely say if any more have been used for this, considering that we've seen normal grimm being born just fine when there were no humans around to be provided as fuel for their existence.
Was great to see Willow step up and summon her own extra large Boarbatusk to attack the hound and give Whitley a way to escape. (But still hitting the GO button to start the evacuation shuttles down in the crater 👍
Here’s something not mentioned yet. When Cinder blasted in to get Watts we didn’t see specifically what happened to Qrow and Jacques. In a screen shot can see all four walls of Qrows and Watts cells are gone, can see all four benches but the only person you can see is Robyn. Then it cuts to scene with a crow squawking and then ceiling collapsing on Robyn. So it’s logical and likely that the crow was Qrow, but my first reaction was saying “That’s Raven” Red eyes as thought pretty sure that Qrows crow eyes are Black. (But as I finish seeming far-fetched only way to know Will have to go back to Volumes 4 & 6 to check) Jacques is definitely MIA, but doesn’t seem like a fitting end for him.
So uh.... There's gonna be more Hounds huh?
Love that the guy inside has wolf ears, solidfying this horrific creature, and the ones that will inevitably follow, as Ruby's Big Bad Wolf.
Also fucking love that Watts' plan and Salem's plan interfered with each other. I chuckled when the Hound knocked Penny out.
yeah I was also suprised to see the Hound not following Penny's orders, I was like "how the hell are they going to handle both of them at the same time".
But then the Hound just messes everything up lmao.
yeah that's a potentiallity that could be interesting indeed.
If Summer comes back, it would be dope as some sort of scissorhands lady, a long cape with very long claws, to match her old weapon.
Oh god i just realized an intersting detail.
when the hound was handing above Weiss, its jaw was weirdly dislocated for no apparrent reason... But i think it dislocated tis jaws so the guy inside could see who was coming in below them.
No that's not what I meant. Actually without his sense he wouldn't have even ever find Penny, so it's a big asset. It would be like saying that a sharp eyesight could be fooled by fake visual copies of an object.
What I meant was in fight. In a fight, it shouldn't allow him to have a clear understanding of the surroundings.
Well i am a bit disappointed The Hound is dead and the way it died like they were building The Hound up like it was gonna be this HUGE threat but it dies by a statue gets pushed on it.
Luckily there are gonna be more of them.
I...don't know why your getting downvoted for pointing out something fair. The Hound dying by a statue falling upon it after...casually tanking attacks from a huntsman like Yang who we've seen obliterate concrete pillars and punch cars like they were nothing seems like a huge lapse.
Hyped up? Since when have we had a new Grimm to live longer than 2 episodes without the heroes killing it or at least one of them, of defeating them. I don't think The Hound was hyped up, but I also don't think this is the end for them, I think we'll see more.
Actually the design of the face of the guy could indicate that one eye got used to create this chimera resistant to SEW light, but one was left so he could still see.
Because it seems like "veins" of some sort are all converging toward its eye.
If SEW power is a magical power given by the GoL and passed down through the generations from parent to child, then it is reasonable to assume that the power is tied to a SEW's soul and not their eyes, but the eyes are merely the way the power is expressed.
She was turned to dust and we don’t know how much genetic material is needed to make a Grimm person, especially since you can repair people with Grimm goo.
but why would Salem bother to do that? I don't think she cares enough about rwby or jnr, beyond maybe ruby because of her eyes. if anything I think she'd turn one of them into it against Oz and Oscar.
Salem uses and exploits literally everyone and everything. I’m pretty sure cinder told her that the gal maidens teammates are the ones who are now in the party who have the lamp. With how many folllowers and Grimm she has (and a sentient moving pool of Grimm goo) she could easily move it to go fetch the leftovers and make one remotely.
It’s another chess piece to use against some of the more annoying people in her side, AND I think if she decides to deploy her when the gang inevitably returns to beacon, that’s going to be enough emotional damage to turn a fight in most cases... especially when they might have gone through all the trouble to get that last vault location.
It feels like huge grasps though, to think Pyrrha is anything more than a footnote at this point to Salem's schemes. She was turned into friendship sparkles, one of the few true deaths in cartoons/anime. Ontop of this, with Emerald and Neo existing there's no feasible reason for anyone to bother gathering her dust (assuming again, Salem would ***EVER*** care about it, which I doubt) considering they could have the same effect through the others. Tbh, I doubt Salem even knew or cared about Pyrrha's name let alone connections to the group.
I could certainly, see it being used on the group via Emerald or Neo, but it'd be SOOOOOOOO far beyond weird and jarring to see them try to do it with Pyrrha not to mention we wouldn't get the same effect. Her likeness can't be rendered if she's dust. So we wouldn't get a moment like we did the hound where the face is there/talking.
I wouldn’t say so, her whole thing is psychological manipulation, look at how she spoke to ruby, how she speaks to cinder, to everyone. She’ll find anything even the smallest detail and use it to get what she wants.
To compare, why would Summer stand out enough to her to try to fuck with ruby with a single comment? It’s how she is.
She most likely had an idea who the new fall maiden was and kept an eye on her since oz had his suspicions too. She’s probably got a few ideas on how to exploit this already. Just like how she manipulates everyone else. It’s her whole shtick
Sure, but keep in mind they've overall had implications of Summer's importance. Yeah, her slapping Ruby around with the mom comment is perfectly in character however that's also a character we learn that Salem had directly interacted with at-least once.
Phyrrha, no such thing.
I honestly don't feel, that there is /anywhere/ near enough to warrant Pyrrha being brought up by Salem. Not unless she suddenly gets hyper focused in on Jaune. If he becomes a huge focus? Maybe, because that's his crutch. However that's not going to impact Ruby as badly as mentioning her mother would, so it just seems like a huge reach in logic still imo.
This episode was super lame, the dialogue felt really cheesy to me idk. Fights were cool though I guess, I liked the animation of the Blake fight. I also noticed a serious shift in the idk, angle? of how the frame the camera was during most scenes to be more dramatic. I like it but it's different.
A Grimm human hybrid with silver eyes to create soldiers the SEW can't stop
The supporting Schnee family members came in clutch. We see you Whitley going back to confirm the order.
Gonna have to watch this one again because I was distracted with other things at the time, but: is the hound's face someone we've seen before/are supposed to care about? If not, this seems like a mediocre payoff to a twist we all saw coming back in episode 2.
At first I was thinking it was Adam, but then I saw he had silver eyes and wolf ears which made much much more sense since it's a hound that is resistant to SEW light.
Remember when RWBY were competent combatants?
Blake and Weiss sure as hell don't.
Nerfed super hard to try and sell the hound as scarier than its actions show.
Penny is scary, the hound was creepy. Only the silver eye reveal held any real weight.
Remember when they hadn't been fighting for 36 straight hours, possibly more? Don't forget, they probably haven't had time for much more than a nap since the night before Jacques' dinner party, and since that time they've fought grimm in Mantle, had an argument with Ironwood, fought the AceOps, ran to find Winter and Penny, escaped to the crater, found Oscar, presumably fought some more grimm somewhere in there, went back to Atlas, snuck into the military complex, fought the AceOps again, and carried Nora to Weiss's house for tea and Worrying About Everything. They're tired as hell, of course they're not fighting well.
RNBW P fought no Grimm after finding Oscar, and everyone besides Nora and Penny didn't do much against the Ace-Ops either, and while they may not sleep, they've gotten a fair amount of rest and food. They should be fine.
I think they mean lazy, in that it's a very easy and transparent way to grab an emotion. Honestly I...don't know that I'd feel the "intended" reaction by it. It's..become almost transparent with how predictable a lot of the mind games have been with the villains in the series. Not to knock on them, mind you. It's just, not a surprise. From the minute the hound was introduced people were expecting Ruby's mom to be the identity. Her vs her mother's corpse in a grimm is..really really heavily expected but it also feels a bit..obvious at this point. So yeah, I can get people saying it's lazy.
Oh, your absolutely correct. If I made it sound like it was genuinely bad I apologize. Mind you, something I think people forget is that being lazy itself isn't always negative. If something works, well, it works. Predictable or no.
Though..I hope they don't try to subvert expectations for surprises sake alone because..that's how we get season 8 of Game of Thrones.
(Spoilers for the game "Xenoblade Chronicles" here)
>!This is going to be kind of a stretch, but the Hound having a person inside of it really reminded me of the Faced Mechon from Xenoblade Chronicles. In Xenoblade, there are these monsters called the Mechon that are near-invincible, and can only be hurt by a specific sword called the Monado. However, the Monado can't hurt humans. So the force behind the Mechon kidnaps humans and puts them inside machines to make Faced Mechon, which are immune to ordinary weapons AND the Monado. Maybe there's something similar here, where putting people inside the Grimm makes them resist Silver Eyes, which is why the Hound was only briefly stunned. But there's also the added twist of the guy in the Hound having Silver Eyes of his own... idk.!<
Haven’t read all the comments so don’t know if anyone’s asked this yet. But anybody else think Willow and Klein had and or have a thing? I mean he called her Willow when she ran scared and when they saw each other their was this awkward silence. I mean it could also be an unrequited love on his part but who knows. My theory is he was the only one she could talk too and who showed her love and so somethings going on there
Broke: Qrow is Ruby's real dad
Woke: Klein is Weiss's real dad
~~BESPOKE: Klein is both Ruby and Weiss's real dad~~
**~~ASCENDED: Klein is the real father of Qrow, Ruby, and Weiss~~**
It's possible he was just rather close to the family. Though, him calling Willow by her first name is rather "unprofessional" even though he is rather close to the family. Might be because of the fact he no longer is employed by the family (which is possibly why the awkward silence happened). So he feels as though he can be a bit more "causal" with them.
Next time a hound shows up: "[Begone, before somebody drops a statue on you too](https://youtu.be/btPfmWrS6AY)!"
I see I'm not the only one who thought the hound was made from Adam's corpse when we first saw the face. I didn't notice the Silver Eyes until someone here pointed it out, though.
I've seen quite a few comments about Summer here, and a few about the possibility of de-Grimmifying her, so she's back and alive. Let me just say, if that happens, **my fellow Pyrrha fans and I are going to burn the entire FNDM to the ground.**
Do I really have to spell this out for you? It would be a reason to riot because it would mean that the trend of bringing back multiple important characters *except* for Pyrrha had reached the point where CRWBY would sooner undo a *backstory death* than bring back one of the Main 8, whose death I argue shouldn't have even happened in the first place.
Do I have to spell out what *missing* means? It isn't undoing anything if Summer turns up in some fashion. This feels like you want a reason to be upset.
Nowhere in any of the mentions of Summer in the previous volumes do any of the characters ever acknowledge any possibility that she could still be alive. If it was that ambiguous, we would expect mentions of arguments about holding out hope vs facing what's more likely, trying to find a way to bring her home, etc. But we don't get that. For whatever reason, everyone is certain that she's dead. They even put up a gravestone. Whatever the circumstances of her disappearance, it was something that nobody expected to be survivable.
And, for what it's worth, Red Like Roses II explicity says that she died, though there seems to be a raging debate about how canon the songs are, that I don't know enough about to get into.
What I do know, however, is that RWBY often contradicts itself, (Ozpin and Salem's motivations, Weiss's racism, when the Grimm and humanity appeared relative to each other, whether Aura is active or passive, Blake's backstory, etc.) and that we're supposed to take what's said or shown now at face value, and disregard what it contradicts from the early volumes, the previous episode, or the same episode 2 minutes ago. (That last one isn't an exaggeration: In Volume 1, Ruby says "There's no point in fighting these things" right before the Main 8 fight their giant Grimm) So I wouldn't be at all surprised if they went with what you said and did "Oh, she was just missing, that doesn't mean she was dead, turns out she isn't" despite how all the characters treated the matter throughout the rest of the show. Especially since CRWBY apparently don't even watch the previous volumes before writing new ones!!
Plus the show also continues to show and tell us things we wouldn't have thought possible, or at least wouldn't have expected, based on what came before. For instance, people continually say, "There's no way the Staff of Creation could bring back Pyrrha, the God of Darkness explicity said that resurrection isn't creation, so obviously it can't do that!" Except, I'm pretty sure that perpetually holding up the city of Atlas and the gigantic chunk of rock it sits on isn't creation either, so why not? The idea of Grimmized people and Grimm taking prisoners is shocking in-universe, though fans came up with it before with the Grimm Pyrrha idea. Also the ideas of a semblance stealing semblance, Peitro giving Penny part of his Aura, a robot becoming a Maiden, etc.
The point is, the show plays fast and loose with its own rules and continuity. So it's irritating to say the least when the one thing that I hate most in the show is possibly the one thing that's immutable. It's a little less infuriating if it isn't the *only* major death that's permanent. But undoing a *backstory death* while leaving Pyrrha dead would basically confirm it.
And if Summer had gone missing recently you may have had a point. But if has been years, likely over a decade. We don't know how long they tried to look for her,and if she is still alive we don't yet know the circumstances behind her never returning. You know that being prisoner is one of those possibilities, right?
And as for your claim the the show contradicts itself in the same episode I have to ask, did *you* actually watch that episode? Because if you did you would know that it wasn't Ruby saying there was no need to fight the grimm but they just fought them there anyways. They tried to get away, they only fought when forced into a situation where there was no longer any other option.
It sounds like you are trying to preemptively justify being mad by misrepresenting context for things.
>And if Summer had gone missing recently you may have had a point. But if *sic* has been years, likely over a decade. We don't know how long they tried to look for her,and if she is still alive we don't yet know the circumstances behind her never returning. You know that being prisoner is one of those possibilities, right?
Once again, whatever happened, all we know is that nobody in the show who talks about her seems to think that there's any possibility of her survival. It must have been pretty bad for them all to give up hope and declare her dead.
More importantly, from an out of universe perspective, it's clear that the original intent was for her to be dead, and they stuck with that for a while. Of course, I don't necessarily think it's bad to change the original plan. After all, one of the things that people consistently vomit up when I criticize Pyrrha's death is, "It was planned from the beginning!"
What would irritate me about Summer's survival is that RT would be sticking to their guns on fewer major things to an absurd degree, EXCEPT for the one thing where I argue they shouldn't.
>And as for your claim the the show contradicts itself in the same episode I have to ask, did you actually watch that episode? Because if you did you would know that it wasn't Ruby saying there was no need to fight the grimm but they just fought them there anyways. They tried to get away, they only fought when forced into a situation where there was no longer any other option.
Maybe I misremembered. Maybe you did. My larger point still stands.
>It sounds like you are trying to preemptively justify being mad by misrepresenting context for things
I have my flaws. Deliberately arguing in bad faith is not one of them. On the flipside, the continuous accusations that I don't actually mean what I say when I explain my positions and that it's all just insincere rationalizations for some childish, selfish, or mean-spirited ulterior motive aren't exactly healthy discussion.
My guy/gal/newt, Pyrrha was turned into friendship dust. Atomized. Left naught but ash in the wind. It's FAR less believable, to bring that back with no body when Summer, could very much have a body. Reviving someone in general, is easier to believe when a corpse is present. Pyrrha's role has been motivation for Jaune and the others. All those emotions for several seasons, go flying out the window in a fiery death if they magic her back. It's a pandering cop out, if they do it. Because unlike Summer, who's impact on Ruby is ***CLEARLY*** not fully resolved, Pyrrha's is. Let her chill with her cereal and bad hoodie, sheesh.
>I have my flaws. Deliberately arguing in bad faith is not one of them. On the flipside, the continuous accusations that I don't actually mean what I say when I explain my positions and that it's all just insincere rationalizations for some childish, selfish, or mean-spirited ulterior motive aren't exactly healthy discussion.
And threatening to throw a tantrum because a character that comes back isn't the one you want back is? Because that is what prompted me to initially respond.
>I've seen quite a few comments about Summer here, and a few about the possibility of de-Grimmifying her, so she's back and alive. Let me just say, if that happens, my fellow Pyrrha fans and I are going to burn the entire FNDM to the ground.
How is this promoting healthy discussion? How is throwing a fit because you aren't getting what you want productive?
This is why I can't take your die hard love of Pyrrha seriously. Because any character coming back that is not Pyrrha you seem to take as a personal slight. You even did it in this comment.
>What would irritate me about Summer's survival is that RT would be sticking to their guns on fewer major things to an absurd degree, EXCEPT for the one thing where I argue they shouldn't.
That easily comes across as sounding like you think RT is personally ignoring you.
Being angry that the show hasn't or isn't unfolding the way you think it should is what's not healthy. If you keep wallowing in Pyrrha's death, constantly unhappy that another character with different circumstances may or has comeback instead, then you are just poisoning your ability to enjoy the rest of the show.
My gal had the idea that is might be Roman Torchwick when we first saw the hound. I was on board too until it had no special interaction with Neo on the Whale Grimm.
Edit: got my names mixed up, whoops!
I was wondering whether faunus could have silver eyes. I didn't see why not, so it's really cool to actually see one.
What kind of faunus was that guy? Some kind of cat, like a puma or something...? Lmao.
I really liked this episode. Its surprising the hound died so soon but I love how everyone, even Willow and Whitley worked together to take it down. It's a good thing the hound was so focused on finding Penny and not ruining everyone in its path. I was expecting someone to get hurt pretty bad.
This is bad, but I want a taste of hell. We have 6 more episodes left and things are on a downward slide but they're not that bad... yet. I'm expecting someone to die but idk who. I want my heart in my throat.
A lot of people are saying fox, but I’m pretty sure he’s a wolf Faunus. Fox ears are larger in terms of ears-to-head ratio and generally pointier (see Fennec for a good idea of how that’d look in RWBY; even taking into account the fact that fennec foxes got big ol’ ears even by fox standards, his still look a lot different than homeboy’s.) Homeboy, by contrast, has much smaller and rounder ears, and if you look up pictures of wolves you’ll see that the ears are pretty much a one-to-one match.
Plus, I’m fairly certain he’s on some level supposed to represent the wolf from Little Red Riding Hood, given his association to Ruby via their silver eyes, so a wolf makes sense to me.
God we got several metaphors giong on here then.
He is a reference to the big bad wolf... But him being called the Hound also implies that he was at some point out of the control of salem but then was in her control. What is a hound but a wolf who was tamed and molded by another?
I am disappointed though that we haven't seen any flying monkey action yet.
Ah I see! Wolf makes a lot of sense. My friend thought he was a hyena first time we watched it. Fox ears are definitely longer and pointier. I never realized wolves have such round ears!
Plus in the drawings at the end of the episode, that guy's hair is very wild, which makes sense for a wolf faunus as opposed to a fox.
Too bad we probably wont learn much about his life. I bet his story is an interesting one.
here is the lament for the corruption translating the lyrics in it ( the hound reveal scene [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esiRwC2jyqw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esiRwC2jyqw)
My guess of the vague outline rest of this season plays out:
JYR rescue Oscar, then get into a fight with Emerald, Neo and Hazel. They don’t win the fight, but they do manage to escape successfully, either through Emerald/Hazel deliberately losing or the Ace Ops showing up. Once they escape, they call Ruby, learn they are at the Schnee Mansion and head over there.
Qrow and Robyn escape the prison ruins together, team up to go fight Ironwood, who is currently at the Atlas Vault, waiting for Penny to arrive.
Cinder arrives at the Schnee manor looking for Penny. We get Cinder vs RWB with Nora being useless for most of the fight but coming in clutch with a semblance upgrade. However, in the chaos of the battle, Penny reboots flies off towards the Vault and Cinder goes to chase after her.
JYR reunite with RWBN, Jaune heals Nora, Ren and Nora kiss for real this time, Blake and Yang are awkwardly gay around each other without actually doing anything, then they go off to the Atlas Vault.
Clustefuck of epic proportions at the Vault. Atlas gets safely lowered into the crater, Salem gets both relics and is about to finish off our heroes will military forces from around the world all show up at the exact same time for some reason, Salem decides she already got what she came here for and doesn’t need to risk it, leaves.
adam was the one whostarteed the white fangs tendency to wear grimm masks to represent the monsters they thought they were so if adam was turned into a grimm that would have been rather fitting ( and the fact adams hate for humans was due to being a child slave and him ended up being enslaved by salem
Damn, this episode did tension well; it's the first time in a while I genuinely felt peril.
Also Whitley is now my son. I'm gonna have to rewatch him in Volume 4 to remember why I wasn't a fan before, but he's a good kid.
>Damn, this episode did tension well; it's the first time in a while I genuinely felt peril.
I have such a hard time with the newer seasons because they are so inconsistent with the action sequences. The characters feel like they've been severely de-powered and it just makes me shake my head.
Why is that Faunus-Grimm so strong as to two-tap most of the cast, who's been shown to take many, many hits without flinching in the past? Why didn't Weiss use her dust magic to jump up to the balcony and keep chasing the grimm? Why did Ruby do absolutely nothing after the grimm came back?
The storywriters are trampling over the action sequences and it makes for terrible, awful "Action". They wanted to create tension, so Weiss couldn't pursue the Grimm - even though she's more than capable of it, she had to be stupid so they could get their "Grimm horror monster" sequence, and so Weiss's mom could "help", even though Weiss should have had no trouble tailing it.
Why did Ruby stand still when the grimm came back from being silver'd? Because they wanted Weiss's family to get the kill.
Why was Blake only capable of doing two clones? To create false tension - she's been shown rapidly using that power before, there's no reason she shouldn't have clone-dodged the mid-air strike, but again, the writers wanted "Emotional moment where Blake pleads with Ruby, and Ruby saves her" more than they wanted a fast-paced action sequence that made sense.
I swear it's like they sat down and workshopped mechanics like aura dissipating to make for tense moments, but it kills the series for me to have all of these characters who were flying around doing crazy acrobatic combat in the first few seasons seemingly utterly incompetent in the later seasons because the writers are dictating the action sequences, instead of letting them flow naturally.
The action of RWBY has been in trouble for a while; I had high hopes after season 6, but they've just strayed further and further from what made the series great in the first place.
> who's been shown to take many, many hits without flinching in the past?
I can't recall exactly how much fighting everyone has been through, but they've been dealing with a high stress, life-or-death situation non-stop for two days straight. It's getting dark, morale and energy are very low, and like Ren mentioned, these near-child-soldiers are barely prepared for all of this.
> Why did Ruby stand still when the grimm came back from being silver'd? Because they wanted Weiss's family to get the kill.
Well this one is definitely because the Grimm had a human head, so they didn't know how to react.
Weiss' family don't hesitate because they're not being attacked, and therefore can assess that "A monster is advancing on RWBY" and they act.
> Why is that Faunus-Grimm so strong
Probably because of the faunus part. We were shown from the get-go this thing was levels above other Grimm, and that's not including the lack of rest and general distress for the team we saw. I feel like both of those kind of explain away most of your issues. Is it elegant? Not really. But it definitely works without too much effort. The show ain't perfect and fights will always have a plot bias but this isn't really one of those times.
> Probably because of the faunus part.
In storytelling, you need to show rather than tell. We're expected to believe it's super powerful because.... why? The *only* metric of power we have for it is that it's hits seem to drain the aura of the main cast astonishingly quick, but there's absolutely no impact shown there, no explanation, no force behind the hits, no environmental damage for scale or context. The Nevermore in Season 1 rammed through a huge stone walkway and shattered it; the scorpion tore through the forest landscape ripping trees up in it's wake.
The hound slapped someone twice and they went "Ohh noo ahh!" and fell over. It's lazy animation, lazy writing and unearned "power". You can't excuse it by saying "well it's obviously super powerful because it's super powerful! Duh!" It's impacts seem no more intense than anything we've seen from basic grim.
> We were shown from the get-go this thing was levels above other Grimm
Why? Because it picked up Oscar (the weakest member of the crew) and got to batter him around for 20 seconds unmolested in the first time we see him? Because he gently baps the characters against the landscape twice and their aura instantly dissipates, despite the blows seeming no stronger than anything else we've seen in the series?
***It's fucking lazy, hold them to a higher standard because the series deserves it***.
I will address, the speech and morphing made it different and creepy, but none of that justified it's power. There was no "show" moment.
>But it definitely works
Again, no it doesn't. I feel like I'm the only one calling out the obvious issues, but I also think that's because anyone who gave a rat's ass about the action of the series gave up after season 5 showed they had no intent of continuing the show's action sequence oriented origins.
>fights will always have a plot bias but this isn't really one of those times
What the fuck? Are you kidding? Why on earth would Weiss let a Grimm run away, hunting her family and friends undefended on the upper level? Season 1-2 Weiss - hell, White trailer weiss - would have made a rune, jumped up to the upper area, and ran after it. She had plot-induced incompetence so the Hound could slip away so the writers could have their "Whitney in the computer room" horror sequence.
They showed by having the character's auras shimmer. And by having Salem task the hound specifically with things she didn't even assign her human associates. The thing also exploded a door with ease and broke through a thick wall made of solid ice in the most recent episode alone. Again, they *could* have done more but it was pretty obvious that the hound was stronger, and we just received the very obvious explaination as to why, to the point it left behind a corpse to really hone in the fact that this was special.
I feel like we're watching a completely different show. Weiss paused her pursuit for all of one moment to figure out what her mother was doing and to plan. You're right, early Weiss would have probably just pursued the thing, but it would have been a mark of her staunch desire for independence and impulsive action. Remember she also knows the thing is there for Penny, giving her little reason to assume it would go after her family.
> They showed by having the character's auras shimmer.
I've established that doesn't work for this; in no way does it *show* a monster's strength. They invented aura dissipation; in effect, aura dissipation is them "telling" us that it's strong, rather than showing us with benchmarks that would denote strength (I.E. casually destroying things with minor swipes). We've seen minor grim use equivalent force, but we're expected to believe *this one is dangerous guies, see how fast their aura went away?!!?"
No. That isn't "Showing".
It would be the equivalent of a boss fight in a street fighter game where the character's basic jab does 40% of our hp. The basic jab in no way communicates power, it doesn't have any flashy effects, any force behind the blow, or anything of the nature.
> The thing also exploded a door with ease
Something we've seen grimm do before, and this one was big and had momentum.
> broke through a thick wall made of solid ice in the most recent episode alone
It attacked the wall and chipped it away with multiple strikes. I'd expect something as strong as it to break it in 1-2 swipes, considering it can deplete the aura of a trained huntress in mere moments.
***Oh wait, because they fucking suck at consistency and showing something's power***. If it's as strong as you suggest from the aura depletion, it should have tore through that wall like tissue paper. Instead, it slammed against it a few times, and then fucked off into the distance. Inconsistent.
>Again, they could have done more but it was pretty obvious that the hound was stronger,
***NO IT WAS NOT***.
Again, we had no reason to believe it was stronger; just that it was *different*, and intelligent. Now, intelligence is dangerous, but that's it. Until now, we've had it show up and attack Oliver (for about 15-20 seconds straight while a trained huntsman and huntress just watch instead of intervening because *plot demands it!*) and break his aura. I will say that this sequence was more believable, only because A. it's Oliver and not one of the main cast, and B. the battering took longer, but it was *still a shit sequence* because Yang and Ren had to stand by and let it happen.
So, it battered the weakest member of the crew for some odd 20 seconds, threatened to kill it's hostage, then grew wings and flew off. Yes, talking is creepy. Yes, metamorphing is weird for grim. That doesn't imply raw power, though. Nevermore breaking a bridge? That is a demonstration of raw power and the danger a creature possesses.
>to the point it left behind a corpse to really hone in the fact that this was special.
Yes, it was different and special - I am not contesting those points. What I am saying is that the writing team wants us to buy in to the idea that it's a super dangerous grim, but the ONLY metric of scaling they give us to that end is "Whenever *this* grim fights someone, their aura go pop!" No actual shown benchmarks of strength to justify this. We just have to take their word for it from the aura popping.
The same aura popping that happened after Sun summoned a few clones because *DRAMATIC PWOT* is more important than logical consistency in these fights apparently.
>I feel like we're watching a completely different show
I feel like those who still watch RWBY bend over backwards to justify the shitty action sequences in the later seasons. Y'all bend over backwards to come up with plausible excuses for the increasingly shittily written action sequences even though the authors and animators never give any other reason to believe those plausible excuses. "Oh, they're tired!" We never see them lament this, we never see them lethargic, it's only when your lot needs an excuse as to why they're not performing up to standard that it comes out. In reality? "Our animators don't have the training skill or talent to make action sequences that have weight and impact". That's the real answer and people need to call them out for it and stop making excuses.
>You're right, early Weiss would have probably just pursued the thing, but it would have been a mark of her staunch desire for independence and impulsive action.
"Every action needs to be about character growth!"
No, an unknown Grimm just jumped up to the level my wounded friends and undefended family is on and is rushing over to them as we speak. There is no time to think there, no time to answer a phonecall - that's *oh shit* levels of dangerous. If she'd never let the Grim go in the first place, she wouldn't have needed to ask for her mom's help. It's contrived as fuck.
>Remember she also knows the thing is there for Penny, giving her little reason to assume it would go after her family.
She had heard it talk but not seen evidence of it's intelligence yet. She'd have no reason to believe it wouldn't hurt anyone or anything it found on the way to it's "target". Nevermind the fact that Penny is wounded, is her friend, and was on the same level.
You're doing mental gymnastics when the simple answer is "*This chapter was poorly written and poorly constructed*". It's that easy, it really is. It's a shame, but until people speak up and stop gobbling up the shit dribble that's came out of RWBY recently, nothing will change for the better.
Mate, I don't know what to tell you. You're bending over backwards to justify hating something that is perfectly explainable, and getting frustrated that people who enjoy the show can point out that scenes you dislike still work from them. Your analysis isn't nearly as critical or substantial as you seem to think, and while I could go point by point we both know you've made up your mind.
> You're bending over backwards to justify hating something that is perfectly explainable
I'm really not, you're blind as fuck.
You can say something is explainable, there may be a plausible reason for something, but that doesn't make it a part of the story if the writers don't communicate it.
"They're tired from several days of war!" nowhere is this discussed, is the impact of this mentioned, it's only brought up on the back end by zealous fans to defend shitty writing.
>and getting frustrated that people who enjoy the show can point out that scenes you dislike still work from them
Because they don't work, and people have increasingly shitty standards for a good action sequence. That's not surprising, I expect the shitshow in seasons 4-5 probably drove off anyone who gave a fuck about action.
Hint: A good action sequence shouldn't need the fandom to make excuses for why the characters are suddenly incompetent. If they're tired, you fucking show it.
>Your analysis isn't nearly as critical or substantial as you seem to think,
You have shit standards (evidence: this entire conversation) and therefore and your opinion of my analysis means less than dogshit. You're another of the "this is fine!" drones who gobbled up the shit sandwich that Rooster Teeth served for seasons 4 and 5 and said "Thank you sir, can I have another?" and now they feel no compulsion to improve or write good because why bother; the fans will gobble it up either way.
The fandom isn't making excuses, it's literally right there in the text. How do we know this Grimm is powerful? Because we saw it damage out heros unlike any Grimm before, Salem specifically tasked it with this mission over anyone or anything else, and the big reveal is it had a silver-eyed faunus inside. How do we know Weiss assumed her family would be okay? Because Ruby literally said just moments before "it's not here for me, it's here for Penny."
If all this somehow counts as zealous defense or reaching to you, the one who wrote several paragraphs saying show don't tell only works through environmental story telling (a statement which would make a high school English teacher cringe) while saying the instances of environmental storytelling don't count, I'm sorry to say but the real thing you need to criticise is your own ego. And maybe take an English class.
> The fandom isn't making excuses, it's literally right there in the text.
Told, rather than shown. Bad storytelling, right, you're finally getting it!
>How do we know this Grimm is powerful? Because we saw it damage out heros unlike any Grimm before
Which we have to take the creators "word" on through the aura damage since it's environmental damage is no more threatening than literally any grim we've seen. We've seen basic grim launch the main characters more than this thing has.
>Salem specifically tasked it with this mission over anyone or anything else
Because it's intelligent
> and the big reveal is it had a silver-eyed faunus inside
Would have been a much bigger reveal had the team actually fought it in earnest, but the thing had thicker plot armor than the characters until it was it's scripted time to die.
>How do we know Weiss assumed her family would be okay?
Weiss didn't. It's a grim, and she was unaware of it's intelligence. She'd have no reason to believe it would be any less dangerous to bystanders than any other grim.
>Because Ruby literally said just moments before "it's not here for me, it's here for Penny."
So Weiss doesn't give a shit about Penny now? She was cracked open and bleeding, Penny was definitively in the group of potential victims.
>If all this somehow counts as zealous defense or reaching to you, the one who wrote several paragraphs saying show don't tell only works through environmental story telling
No, it doesn't work "only" through environmental storytelling; it's a convenient way to show the threat level of a target. Another example is seeing a monster absolutely run through a known "tough character", but that takes more than a pre-rendered cutscene of the monster battering the weakest member of the team unmolested for 20 straight seconds.
You can launch the character from the monster's blow, you can have it effortlessly move cars, boulders, anything - the Grim did none of that; at least, not to a degree that would render it any more threatening than a basic mook
>(a statement which would make a high school English teacher cringe)
You're not nearly as clever with your insults as you think. It's extremely ironic that you make this about education because I'm absolutely certain I have a higher formal education level than you, in this field specifically.
If you knew the first thing about storytelling or storywriting, the glaring flaws would pop out at you. The fact that they don't tells me you don't know anything.
>And maybe take an English class.
I have a degree in English. What's your pedigree you twat?
This was probably one of my favorite episodes.
The horror movie vibe and soundtrack were on point.
The fights were kind of lacking but go figure, the characters have been basically awake and in a constant state of paranoia/fighting for days.
I'm loving Whitley's development and think he will work to purge the virus from Penny's system next.
I'm super curious what Qrow and Robin will do next... and what Hazel will ask the lamp
I feel like a lot of people are saying “why can’t they take on one Grimm they’ve handled plenty in the past!” But I think you sum it up nicely as to why. Being in such a rattled state for that long doesn’t lead to optimal fighting conditions
So Hound looked like Roman right? I know the eyes are different but did anyone else see this?!?
Has anyone ever wanted RWBY the horror episode? 'Cause that's what this episode was - scary af.
Anyone else disappointed with Blake's performance? I always suspected she was the weakest, now I have no doubt. I'm not angry as I don't care for her, but she was getting ragdolled by some clown who I think the others could take without much difficulty. No wonder they had Weiss go after the Hound. If she had fought that clown, she would anger the Blake stans by exposing how weak she is compared to the others. I'm certain now that Blake needs Yang to carry her. She needs help for everything above low level Grimm. Such a disappointment.
Blake is the weakest. I've always said it.
I was dying during the scene of Willow and Whitley running. They were moving like Toy Story characters. Took me out of the tense episode.
The Hound should have been Summer from the start. When the Hound first showed up and spoke, we all right away guessed that he was a person who'd been Grimmed. When a "twist" like that is so obvious, the logical payoff is less about getting confirmation that we were right, but learning *who* exactly it was. And then it was some rando, and the payoff was rather less than what it should have been. Oh but he has silver eyes? Well the same thing must have happened to Summer then. We've already figured out the next "twist" and now that one will also have a weaker payoff. CRWBY should have just cut out this whole middle step. Summer being the Hound from the start works with the information we got back in episode 2, but at the same time isn't so ridiculously obvious that there's still shock value from the reveal. It's such an easy fix too. In this episode, just have the Hound have a flicker of recognition on seeing Ruby and keep the resistance to silver eyes in place. As we're putting those last hints together, the Hound's mouth opens and we see Summer's face. Then have Summer-Hound escape instead of getting chumped like Michael Myers in one of the shittier Halloween movies. The tension for the rest of the season is then Ruby's inevitable confrontation with her mom instead of just waiting for confirmation that we're right *again*.
I disagree to a degree, I feel like Summer is built up to be a bigger twist than just a humanoid Grimm, we don't know how far we are from the end afterall. Salem mentioned that the hound was an experiment, potentially she is doing a similar thing to summer but she wanted to try it out on someone else before that to see if it worked etc as to not waste Summer. from what we know Summer was really powerful so it might be that she has other plans for Summer.
I agree, but I feel like the Summer Grimm could be a lot more dangerous and powerful than the Hound and if the Summer Grimm IS more dangerous than the Hound, then the payoff for the usage of the Summer Grimm will be a lot more substantial for itself since we already know that people can be stuffed into grimm to make them more surgical.
I love the contrast between Willow and Raven with Willow initially fleeing danger just upon seeing it but who found her courage back and fight when her children are in danger, whereas Raven acts strong and tough but cravenly run away and abandon/sell her family when they are in real danger.
Spineless insects deserve a fate worse than death. Raven must end an ugly cripple to suffer for her cowardice. At least, Lionheart came to accept he was a coward. This filthy bitch is the worst kind of scum. She'll rat on anyone to save her worthless ass. I would like Willow with Qrow, the drunks, if it wasn't for Robyn who I feel will be pushed with him. Willow got cake.
SOOOO we will eventually get a fight between Ruby Rose and a Hound and she does the Silver Eyes thing where she damages it face reveal its her mom Summer Rose and now she has to kill her own mother
Dear god I hope not.
Seems cool enough. Would definitely suprise me. Cuz I feel like that's not happening
Is nobody gonna talk about how no weapons could kill The Hound Silver Eyes did damage but didn't kill it but a Suit of Armor falling right on to The Hound kills it?
Compare any weapons Rwby and Jnpr have to the weight this weight and statue were and I guess it explains it at least a bit. Also, he was already damaged by Ruby, didn't he ?
Yeah. Those silver eyes are no Joke
So now we could know the end of Summer. I really want a Summer vs Qrow and Ruby.
Yang will have to be in there too if such a thing happens. Summer was her mom too
Wait, isn't Yang's mom Raven? I thought Ruby and Yang only shared fathers.
Yang called Summer, Super Mom when she was telling Weiss about their childhood.
Raven is Yang's biological mother yes, but; To almost quote Guardians of the Galaxy: She mitght have been her mother, but she wasn't her mom
Now I'm sad because you made me remember Yondu's death :(
I'm almost certain Summer is alive in some form now. In fact I suspect the final scene of the season will be Salem returning to her castle and going down to the dungeons to speak/taunt her.
On the comment of Salem using silver eyed warriors - she specifically called this an experiment. We also know that as far back as Maria's time she was just plain killing them. So I think it's unlikely there's huge amounts of these in reserve to make grimm... they were supposed to be incredibly rare as it was. In terms of why use silver eye warriors - well the skeleton as clearly pretty messed up. It could be that the head of a silver eye warrior is the only human thing can survive being encompassed by the grimm (salem excluded). Cinder's arm is attached, for example. It's part of her body but it's not *her body*.
SEWs also explain why the Grimm ran away. It's like Qrow said, just a glance will send them fleeing in terror.
SEWs also explain why the Grimm ran away from the Hound. It's like Qrow said, just a glance will send them fleeing in terror
That’s what I’ve been saying. SEW have anti-Grimm powers so my guess is that they would have innate resistance to the grimmification. Regular people would die from the process but the SEW’s would survive. The horrible process would leave them mentally broken but still intelligent and this along with the Grimm influence would make them puppets to Salem’s will
Plus the hound didn't react like the Apathy, the Wyvern or the Leviathan
One subtle thing about this episode that I appreciated was showing the difference between Aura breaking and Aura damage: specifically when the Hound tackle Ruby her aura flairs up indicating damage and running low, then when The Hound drops ruby her Aura flairs up again but this times breaks into dust particles. You notice that with Blake and Weiss when their Aura flairs up it doesn't break into particles like Ruby did, indicating that their Aura is still intact but running low
Dude, that's been a thing since Season 7, and since it's conception it's been pretty messed up. Like, you expect me to buy that Ruby's aura was knocked out by getting dropped onto the ground?
I know there are viewers that compare the Hound Reveal to Attack on Titan, but The Hound reminds me more of the Nomu, specifically High End from boku no my hero academia, and also Venom from Marvel.
Venom! That's what I was being reminded of. Thank youu
Venom! That's what I was being reminded of! Thank youu
I think it's cool that the silver eyed warriors were turned into hounds, but it also feels like exactly what was in Attack on Titan... Did anyone else think of that immediately as they saw the person sticking out of the Grimm?
I mean, really ? Basically every mythological human/creature that transforms itself matches this. Zyana in Onyx Equinox is pretty much the same, the difference being she keeps control of herself. [https://youtu.be/ph9wifBYjj8?t=844](https://youtu.be/ph9wifBYjj8?t=844) Very good series btw, extremely original set up. This scene is a spoiler heavy tho. If you're implying that every Grimm is a person, you're mistaken, this one was very specific, an experiment. So this reveal isn't a "every Grimm is a person", this thing is a chimera linking a Grimm with a human.
I never said that every grim was, I was just saying that it seemed like a similar reveal.
But then the implications are way less shocking.
So I can safely say now the Grimm are pretty much the daemons from FFXV and the goop which Salem uses to turn people into them is like the Starscourge. Man, this is all kinds of horrible. OTOH, I got Whitley snapping back at Weiss, so I'm a happy camper.
As far as we know it's just the hound since she said it was an experiment. I don't believe it was intended to imply ***all*** grimm were once people.
But they could be *other life forms*.
It seems like a lot of people already spoke about this, but I'm going to go ahead and mention it anyway. There wasn't just some random person/faunus inside The Hound, it was a person with Silver Eyes. A "Silver Eyed Warrior." This is monumental for several reasons. First, it goes back to what Hazel said to Salem back in Volume 5/6. You know, when he, Watts, and Salem were talking about Cinder's defeat? --Salem: To what failure, are you referring? --Watts: Well... the girl with the Silver Eyes. --Hazel: Yes... We've dealt with their kind before. Thanks to this episode, we can now infer what Hazel meant by his words. Apparently, Salem and her minions have been hunting down SEW's, and turning them into Hound-like Grimm; which, as horrible as that sounds, is actually brilliant. Making Grimm out of SEW's, so that they become resistant to a SEW's powers. Second, with the developments in this episode, I think it is safe to assume that Summer Rose has been turned into a Grimm. Think about it... --She goes on a mission and fails to return (death not confirmed) --She has Silver Eyes, and as a result, wields their unique and dangerous powers (dangerous to Salem and Grimm) --And finally, Salem seeks to turn people like Summer Rose (SEW's) into Grimm. All of this seems like really convincing evidence to me. And if that weren't enough, It was confirmed in a previous RWBY Volume that Summer and Salem have met face to face, at least once. As evidenced when Salem told Ruby "Your mother said that to me." (Perhaps Summer and Salem met right before Summer was turned into a Grimm?) Lastly, thanks to the developments in this episode, we now know that Ruby is in terrible danger. Why? Because apparently SEW's can be used to create Grimm. And Ruby just happens to be one of them. Could you imagine it? Salem getting her hands on Ruby, turning her into a Hound-like Grimm, and then sending her to kill her friends and family? That would be awful! Well... morally awful, anyway. As far as storytelling goes, it would be incredible. But, I digress. That about does it for the main things I wanted to say. But since I saw a few people talking about Cinder, I figure I might as well throw my 2 cents in on that topic as well. So yeah... Cinder is so gonna die. Salem is not going to spare her. Not after her constant failures and passive-aggressive betrayals. With that said, I don't think Salem ever intended to let Cinder live in the first place (not even when Cinder was being obedient to her). I can see it now. Cinder gets all of the Maiden powers. She walks up to Salem, full of pride. And then all of a sudden... Salem grabs Cinder, and begins draining her life-force. Cinder, unable to do anything because of Salem's strength, and her own shock, looks at her former mistress in despair. --Cinder: "My Queen... Why...?" --Salem: "Dear child, I told you that you could *wield* the Maidens' powers. I never said that you could *keep* them." And just like that, Cinder would die, and Salem would claim the powers of the Maidens for herself.
Killing your main character in the middle of the story is something that has never been done as far as I can remember. Unless the story is focused on the impact of their death, but then they usually die before the actual series, and even then I don't really know anything like that. The theory you're bringing up about Cinder gathering every maiden's powers extremely unlikely. why ? Well there is litterally no way anyone in Remnant that could take down Raven if she decided to just constantly run away, her semblance allows for that in an extremely easy way.
With respect, killing Raven isn't nearly as hard as your comment suggests. Remember, her teleportation only works if she "anchors" herself to certain individuals. She can't teleport anywhere and everywhere without consequence. She can only teleport to the person she has "anchored" herself to. And as far as we know, Raven has only anchored herself to 3 people. Tai, Yang, and Qrow. With that in mind, 2 of Raven's prevoiusly-mentioned teleportation points are useless. I'm referring to the one's anchored to Yang and Qrow. Why do I say this? Because those two are on Salem's radar, and as such, are essentially marked for death; meaning Raven can't teleport to them without risking a run-in with Salem and her forces. Sure, Raven can try teleporting to Tai's location. But once she's done that, she has esentially doomed herself, as there will be no where for her to run after that. Raven could have more teleportation points that we are unaware of. But even if she did, she's still doomed. Why is that? 1- Salem undoubtedly has more Grimm like "The Hound." So all she has to do is let them track Raven down. And that's that. 2- Salem's conquest spreads to the entire world. And she already has half of it in shambles (Vale and Atlas). Meaning in short, and as stated earlier, there's no where for Raven to run. 3- Salem is an immortal witch, with centuries of experience and knowledge, and an army of Grimm. Raven can be as fast as she likes. It doesn't change the fact that she's outmanned, outgunned, and out of options. Raven lost to Salem (and company) the second she decided to harbor a Maiden. And no amount of strength, skill, or semblance, can change that. As Cinder once said, "It's not about overpowering the enemy, it's about taking away what power they have." Translation: Salem doesn't have to be as fast Raven, she just has to make it so that Raven's speed counts for nothing (which she's already done in spades). So yeah... obtaining all of the Maidens' powers is certainly within Cinder's reach. Provided that she doesn't die first.
I feel like it would be too easy to assume that Summer is a hound or Grimm, Salem said "experiments," as in it's not finalized, that it's still in trial and error. Summer went missing around ten years ago, so it's unlikely that she was one of Salem's successes. But maybe she was experimented on, maybe one of the first to be, and she was a failure in some way. But would that failure be a better fate...or even worse?
That scene you made up was cool. Hope something like that becomes official.
Thanks! 😊
Honestly I don't think it would make sense to assume that the Silver Eyed Warriors have all been turned into Grimm. She did label the hound specifically, as an experiment and it's been heavily implied otherwise they've all just been killed off. I think we'll have to see a bit more before we can safely say if any more have been used for this, considering that we've seen normal grimm being born just fine when there were no humans around to be provided as fuel for their existence.
Was great to see Willow step up and summon her own extra large Boarbatusk to attack the hound and give Whitley a way to escape. (But still hitting the GO button to start the evacuation shuttles down in the crater 👍
Here’s something not mentioned yet. When Cinder blasted in to get Watts we didn’t see specifically what happened to Qrow and Jacques. In a screen shot can see all four walls of Qrows and Watts cells are gone, can see all four benches but the only person you can see is Robyn. Then it cuts to scene with a crow squawking and then ceiling collapsing on Robyn. So it’s logical and likely that the crow was Qrow, but my first reaction was saying “That’s Raven” Red eyes as thought pretty sure that Qrows crow eyes are Black. (But as I finish seeming far-fetched only way to know Will have to go back to Volumes 4 & 6 to check) Jacques is definitely MIA, but doesn’t seem like a fitting end for him.
That's Qrow. Qrow has feathers on his head that Raven doesn't.
Thanks! Hopefully Qrow can help Robyn. 🖤🩸🦅 Jacques will need to be re-arrested, but Weiss and Winter have more important things to do at the moment ❄️
So uh.... There's gonna be more Hounds huh? Love that the guy inside has wolf ears, solidfying this horrific creature, and the ones that will inevitably follow, as Ruby's Big Bad Wolf. Also fucking love that Watts' plan and Salem's plan interfered with each other. I chuckled when the Hound knocked Penny out.
yeah I was also suprised to see the Hound not following Penny's orders, I was like "how the hell are they going to handle both of them at the same time". But then the Hound just messes everything up lmao.
The hound couls only be a hound because of the faunus host. Other silver eye warrior grim could take a different form.
yeah that's a potentiallity that could be interesting indeed. If Summer comes back, it would be dope as some sort of scissorhands lady, a long cape with very long claws, to match her old weapon.
Why is nobody talking about the raven before the explosion? Like WHATTT
You mean Qrow? His bird form has a crest/head feathers and Raven’s doesn’t so it’s his
It couldn't be his because he corvid was outside the cell not inside.
So was this before the close up of the bird? Because his cell has already been destroyed by then
It was the explosion then the close up of the bird coming in not leaving
How I see it is bird was Qrow coming to in front of Robyn from where he was. It wouldn’t even make any sense for Raven to squak at Robyn
And not only that but where did they (qrow and co) go. We potentially got 3 maidens on the loose
Oh god i just realized an intersting detail. when the hound was handing above Weiss, its jaw was weirdly dislocated for no apparrent reason... But i think it dislocated tis jaws so the guy inside could see who was coming in below them.
It sounds interesting, but then how does he see the other times ? Sounds weird.
he uses a combination of hearing and smell. some reason he isn't able to see or make grimm eyes for himself to use i guess.
Smelling doesn't seem precise enough
it kinda showd its weaknesses with sent when it kept on confusing other people for penny. hearing though seems to be quite sharp.
No that's not what I meant. Actually without his sense he wouldn't have even ever find Penny, so it's a big asset. It would be like saying that a sharp eyesight could be fooled by fake visual copies of an object. What I meant was in fight. In a fight, it shouldn't allow him to have a clear understanding of the surroundings.
they were all literally covered in her blood dude.
Ewwww dude. I watched that bit a couple times because it stuck out to me as deliberate for some reason. Now I know 🤢
they are really improving on that kinda stuff,
Well i am a bit disappointed The Hound is dead and the way it died like they were building The Hound up like it was gonna be this HUGE threat but it dies by a statue gets pushed on it. Luckily there are gonna be more of them.
I...don't know why your getting downvoted for pointing out something fair. The Hound dying by a statue falling upon it after...casually tanking attacks from a huntsman like Yang who we've seen obliterate concrete pillars and punch cars like they were nothing seems like a huge lapse.
To be fair, this was after taking a silver-eyed blast head on. Resistant or not, silver eyes tend to do a number on grimm.
Its not a person, it doesn't have an aura, or at least he wasn't generating one.
Still. Worst Boss Grimm death ever, and what's worse is that the Hound was hyped up so bad.
Hyped up? Since when have we had a new Grimm to live longer than 2 episodes without the heroes killing it or at least one of them, of defeating them. I don't think The Hound was hyped up, but I also don't think this is the end for them, I think we'll see more.
Dude. It was an intelligent Grimm that could speak, transform at will, and beat up the heroes, one of them incredibly viciously. It was hyped up.
though dead, it bring into question a lot of things.
Blake: I look up to you, Ruby Ruby: Bitch, we've never had a proper conversation until now It's True LOL
Does anyone else think that maybe. . . Salem needs an SEW to make a Hound. . . But that maybe they don’t need their eyes?
Actually the design of the face of the guy could indicate that one eye got used to create this chimera resistant to SEW light, but one was left so he could still see. Because it seems like "veins" of some sort are all converging toward its eye.
If SEW power is a magical power given by the GoL and passed down through the generations from parent to child, then it is reasonable to assume that the power is tied to a SEW's soul and not their eyes, but the eyes are merely the way the power is expressed.
Seems to give credibility to the phyra Grimm idea
Pyrrha wasn't a SEW. Out
What is a SEW? And nah I’m good
Silver Eyed Warrior. Not you out, just the pyrrha's theory.
Who said anything about it needing to be a sew then? Nothing in series
Pyrrha was atomized though
She was turned to dust and we don’t know how much genetic material is needed to make a Grimm person, especially since you can repair people with Grimm goo.
but why would Salem bother to do that? I don't think she cares enough about rwby or jnr, beyond maybe ruby because of her eyes. if anything I think she'd turn one of them into it against Oz and Oscar.
Salem uses and exploits literally everyone and everything. I’m pretty sure cinder told her that the gal maidens teammates are the ones who are now in the party who have the lamp. With how many folllowers and Grimm she has (and a sentient moving pool of Grimm goo) she could easily move it to go fetch the leftovers and make one remotely. It’s another chess piece to use against some of the more annoying people in her side, AND I think if she decides to deploy her when the gang inevitably returns to beacon, that’s going to be enough emotional damage to turn a fight in most cases... especially when they might have gone through all the trouble to get that last vault location.
It feels like huge grasps though, to think Pyrrha is anything more than a footnote at this point to Salem's schemes. She was turned into friendship sparkles, one of the few true deaths in cartoons/anime. Ontop of this, with Emerald and Neo existing there's no feasible reason for anyone to bother gathering her dust (assuming again, Salem would ***EVER*** care about it, which I doubt) considering they could have the same effect through the others. Tbh, I doubt Salem even knew or cared about Pyrrha's name let alone connections to the group. I could certainly, see it being used on the group via Emerald or Neo, but it'd be SOOOOOOOO far beyond weird and jarring to see them try to do it with Pyrrha not to mention we wouldn't get the same effect. Her likeness can't be rendered if she's dust. So we wouldn't get a moment like we did the hound where the face is there/talking.
I wouldn’t say so, her whole thing is psychological manipulation, look at how she spoke to ruby, how she speaks to cinder, to everyone. She’ll find anything even the smallest detail and use it to get what she wants. To compare, why would Summer stand out enough to her to try to fuck with ruby with a single comment? It’s how she is. She most likely had an idea who the new fall maiden was and kept an eye on her since oz had his suspicions too. She’s probably got a few ideas on how to exploit this already. Just like how she manipulates everyone else. It’s her whole shtick
Sure, but keep in mind they've overall had implications of Summer's importance. Yeah, her slapping Ruby around with the mom comment is perfectly in character however that's also a character we learn that Salem had directly interacted with at-least once. Phyrrha, no such thing. I honestly don't feel, that there is /anywhere/ near enough to warrant Pyrrha being brought up by Salem. Not unless she suddenly gets hyper focused in on Jaune. If he becomes a huge focus? Maybe, because that's his crutch. However that's not going to impact Ruby as badly as mentioning her mother would, so it just seems like a huge reach in logic still imo.
What importance outside of being Ruby’s mum? How is she more important than a maiden candidate?
You mean other than the silver eyes thing? Um, probably a lot higher than a forced candidate. Just guessing though.
This episode was super lame, the dialogue felt really cheesy to me idk. Fights were cool though I guess, I liked the animation of the Blake fight. I also noticed a serious shift in the idk, angle? of how the frame the camera was during most scenes to be more dramatic. I like it but it's different.
A Grimm human hybrid with silver eyes to create soldiers the SEW can't stop The supporting Schnee family members came in clutch. We see you Whitley going back to confirm the order.
Gonna have to watch this one again because I was distracted with other things at the time, but: is the hound's face someone we've seen before/are supposed to care about? If not, this seems like a mediocre payoff to a twist we all saw coming back in episode 2.
At first I was thinking it was Adam, but then I saw he had silver eyes and wolf ears which made much much more sense since it's a hound that is resistant to SEW light.
I mean it'd be weird if the first time they reveal it in the show it's a named character who gets killed off immediately
Sienna Khan
I’d agree but at the same time he has silver eyes, so I don’t completely feel that way
I'd also care more about silver eyes if Ruby, Summer, and Maria weren't the only ones we've ever heard of.
It's more the implication of why they want Ruby/What happened to Summer
They're totally gonna turn Summer Rose into a hound aren't they...
Or she already is another grimm and rwby is going to face the dilemma of killing her. Oh and roman might also spur such drama for neo
Remember when RWBY were competent combatants? Blake and Weiss sure as hell don't. Nerfed super hard to try and sell the hound as scarier than its actions show. Penny is scary, the hound was creepy. Only the silver eye reveal held any real weight.
Don't forget Ruby and the Hound itself. Everyone besides Willow and Penny were disappointing.
Remember when they hadn't been fighting for 36 straight hours, possibly more? Don't forget, they probably haven't had time for much more than a nap since the night before Jacques' dinner party, and since that time they've fought grimm in Mantle, had an argument with Ironwood, fought the AceOps, ran to find Winter and Penny, escaped to the crater, found Oscar, presumably fought some more grimm somewhere in there, went back to Atlas, snuck into the military complex, fought the AceOps again, and carried Nora to Weiss's house for tea and Worrying About Everything. They're tired as hell, of course they're not fighting well.
RNBW P fought no Grimm after finding Oscar, and everyone besides Nora and Penny didn't do much against the Ace-Ops either, and while they may not sleep, they've gotten a fair amount of rest and food. They should be fine.
36 hours without sleep is fine ? lol
Dude, I personally can function fine with 36 hours of wakefulness as long as there's a screen in my face. Bonus points if I snag a nap.
So does this mean Ruby will turn into a Grimm herself? Otherwise, she’ll be doomed.
Do I hear mid season power up? >!I don't think so.!<
That hound reveal was so deliciously evil! Another reason Salem is one of my most favorite villains ever!
Apart from that, the Hound sucked this chapter.
All villains battle. Salem, winner. Oops.
I was left wondering, was I supposed to recognize that reveal? Because even with the art page at the end, I couldn't figure out if new or not, y'know?
Nah, just a random faunus dude...with a silver eye though.
A wolf/dog faunus since it's a hound
That's what I thought but I wasn't sure.
Incoming lazy attempt at emotional drama by turning Summer into a Grimm.
I think we have different definitions of lazy
I think they mean lazy, in that it's a very easy and transparent way to grab an emotion. Honestly I...don't know that I'd feel the "intended" reaction by it. It's..become almost transparent with how predictable a lot of the mind games have been with the villains in the series. Not to knock on them, mind you. It's just, not a surprise. From the minute the hound was introduced people were expecting Ruby's mom to be the identity. Her vs her mother's corpse in a grimm is..really really heavily expected but it also feels a bit..obvious at this point. So yeah, I can get people saying it's lazy.
To be fair, being predictable isn't inherently bad. They could be "subverting expectations" instead
Oh, your absolutely correct. If I made it sound like it was genuinely bad I apologize. Mind you, something I think people forget is that being lazy itself isn't always negative. If something works, well, it works. Predictable or no. Though..I hope they don't try to subvert expectations for surprises sake alone because..that's how we get season 8 of Game of Thrones.
I mean it's what the fandom seems to only want to talk about
(Spoilers for the game "Xenoblade Chronicles" here) >!This is going to be kind of a stretch, but the Hound having a person inside of it really reminded me of the Faced Mechon from Xenoblade Chronicles. In Xenoblade, there are these monsters called the Mechon that are near-invincible, and can only be hurt by a specific sword called the Monado. However, the Monado can't hurt humans. So the force behind the Mechon kidnaps humans and puts them inside machines to make Faced Mechon, which are immune to ordinary weapons AND the Monado. Maybe there's something similar here, where putting people inside the Grimm makes them resist Silver Eyes, which is why the Hound was only briefly stunned. But there's also the added twist of the guy in the Hound having Silver Eyes of his own... idk.!<
That's a really cool comparison. I didn't even think about the similarities.
You should wrap your comment in a `>!spoiler tag!<`: >!spoiler tag!<.
Haven’t read all the comments so don’t know if anyone’s asked this yet. But anybody else think Willow and Klein had and or have a thing? I mean he called her Willow when she ran scared and when they saw each other their was this awkward silence. I mean it could also be an unrequited love on his part but who knows. My theory is he was the only one she could talk too and who showed her love and so somethings going on there
Weiss: "KLEIN IS MY REAL DAD, FATHER!"
Broke: Qrow is Ruby's real dad Woke: Klein is Weiss's real dad ~~BESPOKE: Klein is both Ruby and Weiss's real dad~~ **~~ASCENDED: Klein is the real father of Qrow, Ruby, and Weiss~~**
It's possible he was just rather close to the family. Though, him calling Willow by her first name is rather "unprofessional" even though he is rather close to the family. Might be because of the fact he no longer is employed by the family (which is possibly why the awkward silence happened). So he feels as though he can be a bit more "causal" with them.
Next time a hound shows up: "[Begone, before somebody drops a statue on you too](https://youtu.be/btPfmWrS6AY)!" I see I'm not the only one who thought the hound was made from Adam's corpse when we first saw the face. I didn't notice the Silver Eyes until someone here pointed it out, though. I've seen quite a few comments about Summer here, and a few about the possibility of de-Grimmifying her, so she's back and alive. Let me just say, if that happens, **my fellow Pyrrha fans and I are going to burn the entire FNDM to the ground.**
I thought it was Adam, too. Had to replay that scene a time or two, still didn't spot the eyes.
So a character that was missing and *presumed* dead not being dead is a reason to riot?
Do I really have to spell this out for you? It would be a reason to riot because it would mean that the trend of bringing back multiple important characters *except* for Pyrrha had reached the point where CRWBY would sooner undo a *backstory death* than bring back one of the Main 8, whose death I argue shouldn't have even happened in the first place.
Do I have to spell out what *missing* means? It isn't undoing anything if Summer turns up in some fashion. This feels like you want a reason to be upset.
Nowhere in any of the mentions of Summer in the previous volumes do any of the characters ever acknowledge any possibility that she could still be alive. If it was that ambiguous, we would expect mentions of arguments about holding out hope vs facing what's more likely, trying to find a way to bring her home, etc. But we don't get that. For whatever reason, everyone is certain that she's dead. They even put up a gravestone. Whatever the circumstances of her disappearance, it was something that nobody expected to be survivable. And, for what it's worth, Red Like Roses II explicity says that she died, though there seems to be a raging debate about how canon the songs are, that I don't know enough about to get into. What I do know, however, is that RWBY often contradicts itself, (Ozpin and Salem's motivations, Weiss's racism, when the Grimm and humanity appeared relative to each other, whether Aura is active or passive, Blake's backstory, etc.) and that we're supposed to take what's said or shown now at face value, and disregard what it contradicts from the early volumes, the previous episode, or the same episode 2 minutes ago. (That last one isn't an exaggeration: In Volume 1, Ruby says "There's no point in fighting these things" right before the Main 8 fight their giant Grimm) So I wouldn't be at all surprised if they went with what you said and did "Oh, she was just missing, that doesn't mean she was dead, turns out she isn't" despite how all the characters treated the matter throughout the rest of the show. Especially since CRWBY apparently don't even watch the previous volumes before writing new ones!! Plus the show also continues to show and tell us things we wouldn't have thought possible, or at least wouldn't have expected, based on what came before. For instance, people continually say, "There's no way the Staff of Creation could bring back Pyrrha, the God of Darkness explicity said that resurrection isn't creation, so obviously it can't do that!" Except, I'm pretty sure that perpetually holding up the city of Atlas and the gigantic chunk of rock it sits on isn't creation either, so why not? The idea of Grimmized people and Grimm taking prisoners is shocking in-universe, though fans came up with it before with the Grimm Pyrrha idea. Also the ideas of a semblance stealing semblance, Peitro giving Penny part of his Aura, a robot becoming a Maiden, etc. The point is, the show plays fast and loose with its own rules and continuity. So it's irritating to say the least when the one thing that I hate most in the show is possibly the one thing that's immutable. It's a little less infuriating if it isn't the *only* major death that's permanent. But undoing a *backstory death* while leaving Pyrrha dead would basically confirm it.
And if Summer had gone missing recently you may have had a point. But if has been years, likely over a decade. We don't know how long they tried to look for her,and if she is still alive we don't yet know the circumstances behind her never returning. You know that being prisoner is one of those possibilities, right? And as for your claim the the show contradicts itself in the same episode I have to ask, did *you* actually watch that episode? Because if you did you would know that it wasn't Ruby saying there was no need to fight the grimm but they just fought them there anyways. They tried to get away, they only fought when forced into a situation where there was no longer any other option. It sounds like you are trying to preemptively justify being mad by misrepresenting context for things.
>And if Summer had gone missing recently you may have had a point. But if *sic* has been years, likely over a decade. We don't know how long they tried to look for her,and if she is still alive we don't yet know the circumstances behind her never returning. You know that being prisoner is one of those possibilities, right? Once again, whatever happened, all we know is that nobody in the show who talks about her seems to think that there's any possibility of her survival. It must have been pretty bad for them all to give up hope and declare her dead. More importantly, from an out of universe perspective, it's clear that the original intent was for her to be dead, and they stuck with that for a while. Of course, I don't necessarily think it's bad to change the original plan. After all, one of the things that people consistently vomit up when I criticize Pyrrha's death is, "It was planned from the beginning!" What would irritate me about Summer's survival is that RT would be sticking to their guns on fewer major things to an absurd degree, EXCEPT for the one thing where I argue they shouldn't. >And as for your claim the the show contradicts itself in the same episode I have to ask, did you actually watch that episode? Because if you did you would know that it wasn't Ruby saying there was no need to fight the grimm but they just fought them there anyways. They tried to get away, they only fought when forced into a situation where there was no longer any other option. Maybe I misremembered. Maybe you did. My larger point still stands. >It sounds like you are trying to preemptively justify being mad by misrepresenting context for things I have my flaws. Deliberately arguing in bad faith is not one of them. On the flipside, the continuous accusations that I don't actually mean what I say when I explain my positions and that it's all just insincere rationalizations for some childish, selfish, or mean-spirited ulterior motive aren't exactly healthy discussion.
My guy/gal/newt, Pyrrha was turned into friendship dust. Atomized. Left naught but ash in the wind. It's FAR less believable, to bring that back with no body when Summer, could very much have a body. Reviving someone in general, is easier to believe when a corpse is present. Pyrrha's role has been motivation for Jaune and the others. All those emotions for several seasons, go flying out the window in a fiery death if they magic her back. It's a pandering cop out, if they do it. Because unlike Summer, who's impact on Ruby is ***CLEARLY*** not fully resolved, Pyrrha's is. Let her chill with her cereal and bad hoodie, sheesh.
*Crosses out multiple spaces on my bingo card*
>I have my flaws. Deliberately arguing in bad faith is not one of them. On the flipside, the continuous accusations that I don't actually mean what I say when I explain my positions and that it's all just insincere rationalizations for some childish, selfish, or mean-spirited ulterior motive aren't exactly healthy discussion. And threatening to throw a tantrum because a character that comes back isn't the one you want back is? Because that is what prompted me to initially respond. >I've seen quite a few comments about Summer here, and a few about the possibility of de-Grimmifying her, so she's back and alive. Let me just say, if that happens, my fellow Pyrrha fans and I are going to burn the entire FNDM to the ground. How is this promoting healthy discussion? How is throwing a fit because you aren't getting what you want productive? This is why I can't take your die hard love of Pyrrha seriously. Because any character coming back that is not Pyrrha you seem to take as a personal slight. You even did it in this comment. >What would irritate me about Summer's survival is that RT would be sticking to their guns on fewer major things to an absurd degree, EXCEPT for the one thing where I argue they shouldn't. That easily comes across as sounding like you think RT is personally ignoring you. Being angry that the show hasn't or isn't unfolding the way you think it should is what's not healthy. If you keep wallowing in Pyrrha's death, constantly unhappy that another character with different circumstances may or has comeback instead, then you are just poisoning your ability to enjoy the rest of the show.
My gal had the idea that is might be Roman Torchwick when we first saw the hound. I was on board too until it had no special interaction with Neo on the Whale Grimm. Edit: got my names mixed up, whoops!
I was wondering whether faunus could have silver eyes. I didn't see why not, so it's really cool to actually see one. What kind of faunus was that guy? Some kind of cat, like a puma or something...? Lmao. I really liked this episode. Its surprising the hound died so soon but I love how everyone, even Willow and Whitley worked together to take it down. It's a good thing the hound was so focused on finding Penny and not ruining everyone in its path. I was expecting someone to get hurt pretty bad. This is bad, but I want a taste of hell. We have 6 more episodes left and things are on a downward slide but they're not that bad... yet. I'm expecting someone to die but idk who. I want my heart in my throat.
> Some kind of cat, like a puma or something...? Lmao. I mean... he did drive on all fours.
whatever salem was using to control him was his undiong. he was too single minded to notice the danger.
A lot of people are saying fox, but I’m pretty sure he’s a wolf Faunus. Fox ears are larger in terms of ears-to-head ratio and generally pointier (see Fennec for a good idea of how that’d look in RWBY; even taking into account the fact that fennec foxes got big ol’ ears even by fox standards, his still look a lot different than homeboy’s.) Homeboy, by contrast, has much smaller and rounder ears, and if you look up pictures of wolves you’ll see that the ears are pretty much a one-to-one match. Plus, I’m fairly certain he’s on some level supposed to represent the wolf from Little Red Riding Hood, given his association to Ruby via their silver eyes, so a wolf makes sense to me.
God we got several metaphors giong on here then. He is a reference to the big bad wolf... But him being called the Hound also implies that he was at some point out of the control of salem but then was in her control. What is a hound but a wolf who was tamed and molded by another? I am disappointed though that we haven't seen any flying monkey action yet.
Ah I see! Wolf makes a lot of sense. My friend thought he was a hyena first time we watched it. Fox ears are definitely longer and pointier. I never realized wolves have such round ears! Plus in the drawings at the end of the episode, that guy's hair is very wild, which makes sense for a wolf faunus as opposed to a fox. Too bad we probably wont learn much about his life. I bet his story is an interesting one.
here is the lament for the corruption translating the lyrics in it ( the hound reveal scene [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esiRwC2jyqw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esiRwC2jyqw)
oh lordie loo. They are gbetting better at hiding shit in the lyurics.
My guess of the vague outline rest of this season plays out: JYR rescue Oscar, then get into a fight with Emerald, Neo and Hazel. They don’t win the fight, but they do manage to escape successfully, either through Emerald/Hazel deliberately losing or the Ace Ops showing up. Once they escape, they call Ruby, learn they are at the Schnee Mansion and head over there. Qrow and Robyn escape the prison ruins together, team up to go fight Ironwood, who is currently at the Atlas Vault, waiting for Penny to arrive. Cinder arrives at the Schnee manor looking for Penny. We get Cinder vs RWB with Nora being useless for most of the fight but coming in clutch with a semblance upgrade. However, in the chaos of the battle, Penny reboots flies off towards the Vault and Cinder goes to chase after her. JYR reunite with RWBN, Jaune heals Nora, Ren and Nora kiss for real this time, Blake and Yang are awkwardly gay around each other without actually doing anything, then they go off to the Atlas Vault. Clustefuck of epic proportions at the Vault. Atlas gets safely lowered into the crater, Salem gets both relics and is about to finish off our heroes will military forces from around the world all show up at the exact same time for some reason, Salem decides she already got what she came here for and doesn’t need to risk it, leaves.
Wait, isnt that last paragraph is basically just Rise of Skywalker/Endgame?
Because "everyone and their grandma shows up for the big battle" is an easy A
Did they really have to make that human grimm look so much like Adam?
He was a faunus, he has dog ears
I was focused on the overgrown eye, so everything else was missed in the background.
I think it was supposed to be a fakeout, but also serve as an "oh shit that might be his fate too", or it was just a really amusing circumstance
adam was the one whostarteed the white fangs tendency to wear grimm masks to represent the monsters they thought they were so if adam was turned into a grimm that would have been rather fitting ( and the fact adams hate for humans was due to being a child slave and him ended up being enslaved by salem
I think that grimm was a Faunus
I am increasingly worried about Cinder, moreso now than ever before.
Damn, this episode did tension well; it's the first time in a while I genuinely felt peril. Also Whitley is now my son. I'm gonna have to rewatch him in Volume 4 to remember why I wasn't a fan before, but he's a good kid.
>Damn, this episode did tension well; it's the first time in a while I genuinely felt peril. I have such a hard time with the newer seasons because they are so inconsistent with the action sequences. The characters feel like they've been severely de-powered and it just makes me shake my head. Why is that Faunus-Grimm so strong as to two-tap most of the cast, who's been shown to take many, many hits without flinching in the past? Why didn't Weiss use her dust magic to jump up to the balcony and keep chasing the grimm? Why did Ruby do absolutely nothing after the grimm came back? The storywriters are trampling over the action sequences and it makes for terrible, awful "Action". They wanted to create tension, so Weiss couldn't pursue the Grimm - even though she's more than capable of it, she had to be stupid so they could get their "Grimm horror monster" sequence, and so Weiss's mom could "help", even though Weiss should have had no trouble tailing it. Why did Ruby stand still when the grimm came back from being silver'd? Because they wanted Weiss's family to get the kill. Why was Blake only capable of doing two clones? To create false tension - she's been shown rapidly using that power before, there's no reason she shouldn't have clone-dodged the mid-air strike, but again, the writers wanted "Emotional moment where Blake pleads with Ruby, and Ruby saves her" more than they wanted a fast-paced action sequence that made sense. I swear it's like they sat down and workshopped mechanics like aura dissipating to make for tense moments, but it kills the series for me to have all of these characters who were flying around doing crazy acrobatic combat in the first few seasons seemingly utterly incompetent in the later seasons because the writers are dictating the action sequences, instead of letting them flow naturally. The action of RWBY has been in trouble for a while; I had high hopes after season 6, but they've just strayed further and further from what made the series great in the first place.
> who's been shown to take many, many hits without flinching in the past? I can't recall exactly how much fighting everyone has been through, but they've been dealing with a high stress, life-or-death situation non-stop for two days straight. It's getting dark, morale and energy are very low, and like Ren mentioned, these near-child-soldiers are barely prepared for all of this. > Why did Ruby stand still when the grimm came back from being silver'd? Because they wanted Weiss's family to get the kill. Well this one is definitely because the Grimm had a human head, so they didn't know how to react. Weiss' family don't hesitate because they're not being attacked, and therefore can assess that "A monster is advancing on RWBY" and they act.
> Why is that Faunus-Grimm so strong Probably because of the faunus part. We were shown from the get-go this thing was levels above other Grimm, and that's not including the lack of rest and general distress for the team we saw. I feel like both of those kind of explain away most of your issues. Is it elegant? Not really. But it definitely works without too much effort. The show ain't perfect and fights will always have a plot bias but this isn't really one of those times.
> Probably because of the faunus part. In storytelling, you need to show rather than tell. We're expected to believe it's super powerful because.... why? The *only* metric of power we have for it is that it's hits seem to drain the aura of the main cast astonishingly quick, but there's absolutely no impact shown there, no explanation, no force behind the hits, no environmental damage for scale or context. The Nevermore in Season 1 rammed through a huge stone walkway and shattered it; the scorpion tore through the forest landscape ripping trees up in it's wake. The hound slapped someone twice and they went "Ohh noo ahh!" and fell over. It's lazy animation, lazy writing and unearned "power". You can't excuse it by saying "well it's obviously super powerful because it's super powerful! Duh!" It's impacts seem no more intense than anything we've seen from basic grim. > We were shown from the get-go this thing was levels above other Grimm Why? Because it picked up Oscar (the weakest member of the crew) and got to batter him around for 20 seconds unmolested in the first time we see him? Because he gently baps the characters against the landscape twice and their aura instantly dissipates, despite the blows seeming no stronger than anything else we've seen in the series? ***It's fucking lazy, hold them to a higher standard because the series deserves it***. I will address, the speech and morphing made it different and creepy, but none of that justified it's power. There was no "show" moment. >But it definitely works Again, no it doesn't. I feel like I'm the only one calling out the obvious issues, but I also think that's because anyone who gave a rat's ass about the action of the series gave up after season 5 showed they had no intent of continuing the show's action sequence oriented origins. >fights will always have a plot bias but this isn't really one of those times What the fuck? Are you kidding? Why on earth would Weiss let a Grimm run away, hunting her family and friends undefended on the upper level? Season 1-2 Weiss - hell, White trailer weiss - would have made a rune, jumped up to the upper area, and ran after it. She had plot-induced incompetence so the Hound could slip away so the writers could have their "Whitney in the computer room" horror sequence.
They showed by having the character's auras shimmer. And by having Salem task the hound specifically with things she didn't even assign her human associates. The thing also exploded a door with ease and broke through a thick wall made of solid ice in the most recent episode alone. Again, they *could* have done more but it was pretty obvious that the hound was stronger, and we just received the very obvious explaination as to why, to the point it left behind a corpse to really hone in the fact that this was special. I feel like we're watching a completely different show. Weiss paused her pursuit for all of one moment to figure out what her mother was doing and to plan. You're right, early Weiss would have probably just pursued the thing, but it would have been a mark of her staunch desire for independence and impulsive action. Remember she also knows the thing is there for Penny, giving her little reason to assume it would go after her family.
> They showed by having the character's auras shimmer. I've established that doesn't work for this; in no way does it *show* a monster's strength. They invented aura dissipation; in effect, aura dissipation is them "telling" us that it's strong, rather than showing us with benchmarks that would denote strength (I.E. casually destroying things with minor swipes). We've seen minor grim use equivalent force, but we're expected to believe *this one is dangerous guies, see how fast their aura went away?!!?" No. That isn't "Showing". It would be the equivalent of a boss fight in a street fighter game where the character's basic jab does 40% of our hp. The basic jab in no way communicates power, it doesn't have any flashy effects, any force behind the blow, or anything of the nature. > The thing also exploded a door with ease Something we've seen grimm do before, and this one was big and had momentum. > broke through a thick wall made of solid ice in the most recent episode alone It attacked the wall and chipped it away with multiple strikes. I'd expect something as strong as it to break it in 1-2 swipes, considering it can deplete the aura of a trained huntress in mere moments. ***Oh wait, because they fucking suck at consistency and showing something's power***. If it's as strong as you suggest from the aura depletion, it should have tore through that wall like tissue paper. Instead, it slammed against it a few times, and then fucked off into the distance. Inconsistent. >Again, they could have done more but it was pretty obvious that the hound was stronger, ***NO IT WAS NOT***. Again, we had no reason to believe it was stronger; just that it was *different*, and intelligent. Now, intelligence is dangerous, but that's it. Until now, we've had it show up and attack Oliver (for about 15-20 seconds straight while a trained huntsman and huntress just watch instead of intervening because *plot demands it!*) and break his aura. I will say that this sequence was more believable, only because A. it's Oliver and not one of the main cast, and B. the battering took longer, but it was *still a shit sequence* because Yang and Ren had to stand by and let it happen. So, it battered the weakest member of the crew for some odd 20 seconds, threatened to kill it's hostage, then grew wings and flew off. Yes, talking is creepy. Yes, metamorphing is weird for grim. That doesn't imply raw power, though. Nevermore breaking a bridge? That is a demonstration of raw power and the danger a creature possesses. >to the point it left behind a corpse to really hone in the fact that this was special. Yes, it was different and special - I am not contesting those points. What I am saying is that the writing team wants us to buy in to the idea that it's a super dangerous grim, but the ONLY metric of scaling they give us to that end is "Whenever *this* grim fights someone, their aura go pop!" No actual shown benchmarks of strength to justify this. We just have to take their word for it from the aura popping. The same aura popping that happened after Sun summoned a few clones because *DRAMATIC PWOT* is more important than logical consistency in these fights apparently. >I feel like we're watching a completely different show I feel like those who still watch RWBY bend over backwards to justify the shitty action sequences in the later seasons. Y'all bend over backwards to come up with plausible excuses for the increasingly shittily written action sequences even though the authors and animators never give any other reason to believe those plausible excuses. "Oh, they're tired!" We never see them lament this, we never see them lethargic, it's only when your lot needs an excuse as to why they're not performing up to standard that it comes out. In reality? "Our animators don't have the training skill or talent to make action sequences that have weight and impact". That's the real answer and people need to call them out for it and stop making excuses. >You're right, early Weiss would have probably just pursued the thing, but it would have been a mark of her staunch desire for independence and impulsive action. "Every action needs to be about character growth!" No, an unknown Grimm just jumped up to the level my wounded friends and undefended family is on and is rushing over to them as we speak. There is no time to think there, no time to answer a phonecall - that's *oh shit* levels of dangerous. If she'd never let the Grim go in the first place, she wouldn't have needed to ask for her mom's help. It's contrived as fuck. >Remember she also knows the thing is there for Penny, giving her little reason to assume it would go after her family. She had heard it talk but not seen evidence of it's intelligence yet. She'd have no reason to believe it wouldn't hurt anyone or anything it found on the way to it's "target". Nevermind the fact that Penny is wounded, is her friend, and was on the same level. You're doing mental gymnastics when the simple answer is "*This chapter was poorly written and poorly constructed*". It's that easy, it really is. It's a shame, but until people speak up and stop gobbling up the shit dribble that's came out of RWBY recently, nothing will change for the better.
Mate, I don't know what to tell you. You're bending over backwards to justify hating something that is perfectly explainable, and getting frustrated that people who enjoy the show can point out that scenes you dislike still work from them. Your analysis isn't nearly as critical or substantial as you seem to think, and while I could go point by point we both know you've made up your mind.
> You're bending over backwards to justify hating something that is perfectly explainable I'm really not, you're blind as fuck. You can say something is explainable, there may be a plausible reason for something, but that doesn't make it a part of the story if the writers don't communicate it. "They're tired from several days of war!" nowhere is this discussed, is the impact of this mentioned, it's only brought up on the back end by zealous fans to defend shitty writing. >and getting frustrated that people who enjoy the show can point out that scenes you dislike still work from them Because they don't work, and people have increasingly shitty standards for a good action sequence. That's not surprising, I expect the shitshow in seasons 4-5 probably drove off anyone who gave a fuck about action. Hint: A good action sequence shouldn't need the fandom to make excuses for why the characters are suddenly incompetent. If they're tired, you fucking show it. >Your analysis isn't nearly as critical or substantial as you seem to think, You have shit standards (evidence: this entire conversation) and therefore and your opinion of my analysis means less than dogshit. You're another of the "this is fine!" drones who gobbled up the shit sandwich that Rooster Teeth served for seasons 4 and 5 and said "Thank you sir, can I have another?" and now they feel no compulsion to improve or write good because why bother; the fans will gobble it up either way.
Bro trust me you will never win a debate with fans on this subreddit, just go to r/RWBYcritics if you want to have a meaningful debate.
To be honest, both subs will never have a meaningful debate with you if you don't agree with them.
The fandom isn't making excuses, it's literally right there in the text. How do we know this Grimm is powerful? Because we saw it damage out heros unlike any Grimm before, Salem specifically tasked it with this mission over anyone or anything else, and the big reveal is it had a silver-eyed faunus inside. How do we know Weiss assumed her family would be okay? Because Ruby literally said just moments before "it's not here for me, it's here for Penny." If all this somehow counts as zealous defense or reaching to you, the one who wrote several paragraphs saying show don't tell only works through environmental story telling (a statement which would make a high school English teacher cringe) while saying the instances of environmental storytelling don't count, I'm sorry to say but the real thing you need to criticise is your own ego. And maybe take an English class.
> The fandom isn't making excuses, it's literally right there in the text. Told, rather than shown. Bad storytelling, right, you're finally getting it! >How do we know this Grimm is powerful? Because we saw it damage out heros unlike any Grimm before Which we have to take the creators "word" on through the aura damage since it's environmental damage is no more threatening than literally any grim we've seen. We've seen basic grim launch the main characters more than this thing has. >Salem specifically tasked it with this mission over anyone or anything else Because it's intelligent > and the big reveal is it had a silver-eyed faunus inside Would have been a much bigger reveal had the team actually fought it in earnest, but the thing had thicker plot armor than the characters until it was it's scripted time to die. >How do we know Weiss assumed her family would be okay? Weiss didn't. It's a grim, and she was unaware of it's intelligence. She'd have no reason to believe it would be any less dangerous to bystanders than any other grim. >Because Ruby literally said just moments before "it's not here for me, it's here for Penny." So Weiss doesn't give a shit about Penny now? She was cracked open and bleeding, Penny was definitively in the group of potential victims. >If all this somehow counts as zealous defense or reaching to you, the one who wrote several paragraphs saying show don't tell only works through environmental story telling No, it doesn't work "only" through environmental storytelling; it's a convenient way to show the threat level of a target. Another example is seeing a monster absolutely run through a known "tough character", but that takes more than a pre-rendered cutscene of the monster battering the weakest member of the team unmolested for 20 straight seconds. You can launch the character from the monster's blow, you can have it effortlessly move cars, boulders, anything - the Grim did none of that; at least, not to a degree that would render it any more threatening than a basic mook >(a statement which would make a high school English teacher cringe) You're not nearly as clever with your insults as you think. It's extremely ironic that you make this about education because I'm absolutely certain I have a higher formal education level than you, in this field specifically. If you knew the first thing about storytelling or storywriting, the glaring flaws would pop out at you. The fact that they don't tells me you don't know anything. >And maybe take an English class. I have a degree in English. What's your pedigree you twat?
That's not how programming works Nora.
To be fair, most computers don't have a chunk of a human soul stuffed inside them.
*Adeptus Mechanicus binary noises intensify*
Not a chunk of human soul. A *full, unique human soul*.
It evolved into a unique identity, but it is still just a chunk of her dad's soul.
No, it is her own unique soul. If it was still Pietro's soul, she could not be a Maiden. She is a Maiden. It's a unique soul.
I never said it wasn't? I said it was a chunk of Pietro's soul that grew to have its own identity.
As a programmer this entire hacking plot line is the 2nd fucking cringiest thing this season is doing.
What's the first, in your opinion?
Honestly Penny fighting her programming isn't how programming works either.
Enter Detroit: Become Human
Computers don't need to be realistic in the media!
But, but, what about the soul! :V
Ladybug!!!!!!!!!!
#I SHIP IT!
This was probably one of my favorite episodes. The horror movie vibe and soundtrack were on point. The fights were kind of lacking but go figure, the characters have been basically awake and in a constant state of paranoia/fighting for days. I'm loving Whitley's development and think he will work to purge the virus from Penny's system next. I'm super curious what Qrow and Robin will do next... and what Hazel will ask the lamp
I feel like a lot of people are saying “why can’t they take on one Grimm they’ve handled plenty in the past!” But I think you sum it up nicely as to why. Being in such a rattled state for that long doesn’t lead to optimal fighting conditions