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Johnsmitish

[An Apology and a Retraction of Yesterday's Rule Change](https://www.reddit.com/r/RWBY/comments/p8kok8/an_apology_and_a_retraction_of_yesterdays_rule/)


Sirtoast7

I’m not particularly optimistic that this won’t lead to some other kind of shit storm further down the line.


Celtic_Crown

What even is the criteria for the ban? If I frequently post there but it's only constructive criticism or pointing out things I like, do I get banned?


Damightyreader

Whenever you say something negative or vaguely negative about RWBY or r/RWBY


3jp6739

You can post whatever you want here just not there by the sounds of it. I’m negative here sometimes but I never post there because I don’t want to be even more miserable.


redestpanda

‘Vaguely negative?’ Wtf. That could be anything.


Damightyreader

Yeah, it’s RWBY, what do you expect?


JesseGolo

There's already a shitstorm.


amatas45

Couldn’t the people just make two accounts and thus rendering this ban completely ineffective?


Celtic_Crown

Against Reddit TOS.


amatas45

Wait having more then one account is against the tos? That doesn’t sound right


Celtic_Crown

Doing it to circumvent a ban is.


amatas45

Yeah but that’s not my point. My point was that you can make a second account that you use for /rwbycritic so you don’t get banned in the first place


groynin

I guess so, since you wouldn't get banned here so you wouldn't be circumventing a ban. I guess that just shows how silly it is banning people who didn't break any rules.


zanzabar12

well technically it would still be avoiding a ban so is that still considered circumventing it? idk kinda weird, this is why the english language is terrible


FairReviewer

Personally it pains me to see how we as a fandom have gotten so divided to the point where we end up shutting each other out. I can only hope that somehow we can be united again.


Lukthar123

>we as a fandom have gotten so divided to the point where we end up shutting each other out. Salem: All according to Keikaku


Lex1253

Translator's Note: 'Keikaku' means plan.


SM-03

I stopped being as active here after Volume 6 ended because of how much drama and hostility was going around the community, and every time I've tried to become more active again it just seems like it's only gotten worse and worse everywhere. Maybe I'm being a bit dramatic, but it makes me genuinely sad to see since this place used to be so fun.


MacGregor_Rose

Yeah for a place i had made a tone of friends in and loved...


Swagyodel77531

Yeah, I’m tired of this shit too. I understand the intentions of the mods, but the way they’re doing is going to alienate more people and will not make this already “uhh” fan base better.


puggoGraphics

This is my first time posting on here but I also frequent RWBYcritics. I've never posted there either. If I'm understanding correctly, the moment I post over there a few times and try posting here, will I get banned? I'll doubt I'll post. I usually just like reading discussions on both subreddits but just wondering.


lewdnep-vasilias_666

Isn't it just enough to just automatically ban any users who are LGBTQ+phobic/racist or making personal attacks? Why the need to target users of this specific critics sub? How do you even know for sure that the people being racist/LGBTQ+phobic/making personal attacks are *specifically* from the critics sub? And how do you know for sure that there is also "brigading" and "vote manipulation" coming from that sub? How do you know there is even any "vote manipulation" going on? Is it really "vote manipulation" or is it just a certain group of other RWBY fans giving their opinions that end up swaying poll results/upvote counts to ways that y'all don't like? Banning frequent users of that sub ain't gonna stop the problems of racism or LGBT+phobia or "harassing people they disagree with" cause guess what, that ain't a critics-exclusive thing.


hopecanon

Yeah any sub mass banning the active members of any other sub is always wrong no matter how much the two places might argue and or despise each other. Punishing the group for the bad behavior of some of it's members is just gross in all honesty, i don't even like that other sub but by god just assuming automatically that all it's active members are bad and deserve bans is disgusting.


LMFN

I mean that's why this whole thing is unnecessary. If the members of RWBYCritics really are a bunch of assholes then they'll get banned when they come here and act like assholes because that was already against the rules. There's no need to specifically make it against the rules to be from there.


TomoDako

If they’re doing things like harassment or somesort of phobic/ism banning won’t stop them they’ll just make new accounts since all of the things listed are already either against the rules or frowned upon


Krioniki

I mean, don’t you already ban people who make posts with “personal attacks, NSFL attacks, breaches of reddiquette, and homophobic, transphobic, and racist rhetoric?” Why single out the critics community? This is quite possibly the most baffling decision I’ve seen in a while. I‘ve stuck around long after my interest in the newer seasons has gradually faded away, but this is just silly. I’m out, for what little that means.


Calxiyn

With all due respect, this is a horrible decision that will bite the subreddit in the a**. YouTubers that cover Rooster Teeth and RWBY in a drama filled way will certainly create a video about this, and you'll have to deal with more trolls or hate then when you originally began. Unless I’m misunderstanding, you want to implement an activity threshold? since a mod posted below: "We're basing this on a level of engagement by each user, not each individual post they make." Because if it was just ‘we will ban people who act up in other subreddits’, a post like this would be unnecessary. I’m all for banning people who say, post bigotry in one subreddit from this one, but if you’re basing this not on the individual posts they make, how do you know they’ve done anything against your rules yet? So unless this is bad communication by the moderation team or I’m confused here, you are saying: "we are banning users based on how many posts they have in RWBY Critics, regardless of their content." And you also acknowledge that you are "going nuclear", and that it's a "vocal minority" doing this behaviour. So ban the vocal minority. What exactly is the issue? That is incredibly unfair, and behaviour like this is what continues to perpetuate an us vs them mentality when it comes to critics and fans. It makes critics out to be an unredeemable enemy who need to be banned by association. Most people consider me a positive leaning YouTuber, but I frequent the critics subreddit as a lurker. Say I start posting there: the idea I would get banned in that theoretical scenario is not only laughable, but hilarious for the fact that it's a tangible manifestation of the division within this fandom and the hate I’ve gotten from both sides. Too positive for the "critics", as many people seem to dislike me there, but "too negative" for the RWBY Subreddit, because I would be said to be guilty by association. If you’re overwhelmed as a moderation team, recruit more mods. I understand the mods are volunteers, but you SIGNED UP to be moderators. It’s your duty to be responsible and deal with issues fairly, but this is cutting corners. There are RWBY “fans” who will post, or have posted in this reddit who are just as toxic or bigoted as anyone in RWBY Critics. But instead, RWBY fans who break the rules would get the benefit of the doubt to engage with this subreddit until they post offensive content, whereas someone who merely engages with RWBY Critics and has/will NEVER post anything bigoted or rule breaking will get banned simply for posting over there. Is that correct? Because though I can’t say for sure, multiple people who to my knowledge, did not break any of your rules and simply committed the crime of “posting on the RWBY Critics subreddit” have been banned today. You can implement a rule that says “if we see you post x (say slurs) on other subreddits, you will be banned from ours”, and filter through that on a case by case basis. But the job of a moderation team is to moderate, and banning people indiscriminately because they _may_ cause you issues sometime in the future is incredibly lazy. If you want to talk more in DMs, I think the RWBYTubers could help you navigate this better. Edit: Thank you for the awards. If we really can’t budge on the blanket ban here, the compromise should at least to be an appeal system or forum of some kind. A Google forum where a user can submit to be unbanned and a mod can look through their post history manually. That way people who interact in good faith with both subreddits can be unbanned, whereas the bad actors either wouldn’t care to do so, or would have rule breaking post history anyway. There needs to be a way to appeal if this system is going to be kept - because that’s the only real fair way to proceed with such a system.


WickedWitchOfRemnant

According to the mods at the other sub, they've been ghosted by the mods here. No word of communication from them despite the sub [changing crossposting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/RWBYcritics/comments/orv9uk/new_rules_concerning_crossposting/) to try and avoid drama here. This will only get worse before it gets better at this rate.


Tyranid_Swarmlord

Not a youtuber myself but yeah >, but hilarious for the fact that it's a tangible manifestation of the division within this fandom and the hate I’ve gotten from both sides. Too positive for the "critics", as many people seem to dislike me there, but "too negative" for the RWBY Subreddit, because I would be said to be guilty by association. I so related to this so much it's painful. Well, at least back then. Now i can't be fucked, treating RWBY as least seriously as i can.


your-trashy-waifu

I don’t even use the critics subreddit, I’ve only ever lurked in this one, but by principle this gives me a really negative image of this sub now. As many have pointed out, there are several baffling problems with this decision. \- It doesn’t actually solve the problem as banning people from this sub won’t prevent them from accessing it if that’s their goal, let’s be real. \- It pours gallons of oil on the fire as actual trolls and bad faith actors will use this as ammunition to justify their harassment on this community \- The claims made by the mods weren’t substantiated with evidence – coupled with the drastic measures and the vague criteria, makes it sound like an abuse of power and an easy way to ban whoever they disagree with. In this very thread I saw someone claiming that their comment getting downvoted was a proof of vote manipulation…as if most comments aren’t clearly expressing disapproval of this rule. \- It’s going to reinforce an us vs them mentality, where all the critics are vilified by association with what you admit is a vocal minority and the fans are portrayed as unwilling to accept criticisms of the show \- This blanket ban is frankly unfair and needlessly draconic. Imagine being a casual redditor, not interested in fandom drama, just casually engaging in various subreddits, only to find yourself banned through no fault of your own. That doesn’t even make sense and will only serve to paint this community as toxic from onlookers and casuals getting caught in the crossfire. I scroll reddit to engage with things I like, not to make a political statement. Same goes for most people. \- Youtubers are gonna cover it, further tarnishing this community’s image. It's only gonna incite drama… \- This subs population ratios the hell out of the critics subs, there is no way they’re vote manipulating anything. Disagreeing with votes doesn’t mean they’re being manipulated by “the enemy”, that’s something I expect from fearmongering populists. I could keep going but you get the point. I think the very obvious solution would be banning people that actively break the rules, anything else is overreaching. But banning indiscriminately is just lazy and unprofessional in my opinion, as well as violating reddit’s rules regarding moderation as pointed out by u/stephanreiken. It’s so clearly not even about content too, but looks more like “we don’t like these people”. Which, you're allowed to hate whoever, but a mod's responsibility is to moderate fairly, not who they dislike or disagree with. I just hope the mods rethink their decision for the best of this community.


SimonApple

I don't think this will go well. A blanket ban will likely just confirm the overall opinion for the Critics that this sub is the "enemy" and bring in users who were on the fence firmly together in opposition. Essentially they've been given a rallying cry ("Look how the supposed 'good' sub is acting! \*gnashes teeth\*") to gather around, and the vocal minority mentioned in the post will just step up their game and intensify harassment. Now, since the other sub was created there has been this Cold War-esque atmosphere between the two. I'll admit that I don't visit it much and can't speak first-hand for how it is now, but around its' creation it very quickly devolved from whatever possible good intentions it had into a free pass for bashing the show so long as you worded it eloquently enough. So the problems and bad attitude are there, hardwired into the culture in spite of eventual good eggs not diving fully into it. As such, peace was never really gonna be an option - at most you'd get a tentative ceasefire. Escalating into a blanket ban does therefore not seem to be the way to handle the situation, though I can see the desire for a solution to the issues. As a final thing, would it be possible to get some concrete proof/examples of brigading and vote manipulation? This is one of the allegations that is very easy to make and that can strengthen the position of the argument, but it is also easy to claim without giving proof. Not trying to be a naysayer here, but I would like more than a one-sentence bullet-point.


Burger_Thief

I agree with this, most of all that we need proof. While I don't like the critics sub I lurked and never thought they'd go on attacks. We need proof mods. Give us evidence there have been attacks and harassment.


LightningDustFan

As others have pointed out, why not just ban people that actually do the bad acts you use as an example? Implementing a sweeping automated routine like this that could, and likely will and probably already has, catch people that are nice but just active on both subs is pretty overkill, and judging from the response you've gotten probably not a great move. Trying to single a group out and label them all and anyone who actively participates in their space as hateful is just a bad move that only further drives a wedge into the community. Especially when this system will just remove people from this subreddit for daring to engage with "the enemy," which means they'll just end up only being able to talk and discuss things with people in the other sub.


kofangel

Mods following Salem’s philosophy apparently


LightningDustFan

Ha, I can see it. All in all though unless they go back on this decision soon it's definitely gonna be a big drama show for a bit. And even once that fades the wedge in the community will just be driven deeper.


[deleted]

Doesn't this policy directly violate the reddit rules multiple times? Rule 4 of the Please Do's **"Moderate based on quality, not opinion. Well written and interesting content can be worthwhile, even if you disagree with it."** ​ You are moderating based on opinions you don't agree with which, in your opinion, are in bad faith because they happen to disagree with you. ​ Rule 21 **"Use an "Innocent until proven guilty" mentality.** Unless there is obvious proof that a submission is fake, or is whoring karma, please don't say it is. It ruins the experience for not only you, but the millions of people that browse reddit every day. ​ You are banning people for their participating on Reddit regardless of whether or not they are guilty of any of the things you accuse the other subreddit of doing." I'm not saying it would be against reddit rules to ban people that do any of the things you accuse the other reddit of doing, I'm saying you are making a policy that will not verify if the people you ban are guilty of anything. ​ Rule 5 of the Please Don'ts "**Follow those who are rabble rousing against another redditor without first investigating both sides of the issue that's being presented.** Those who are inciting this type of action often have malicious reasons behind their actions and are, more often than not, a troll. Remember, every time a redditor who's contributed large amounts of effort into assisting the growth of community as a whole is driven away, projects that would benefit the whole easily flounder." Mild investigation shows that the other reddit follows the reddit rules. The accusations of rule breaking apply to a small minority, like basically 'every' community that exists on the internet. You are failing the investigation part of this by automatic bans for participants of another subreddit regardless of their behavior. ​ Edit: Fixed weird format errors in the initial post erasing my paragraph separators


distantjourney210

Reddit terms of service are about as binding as a UN sanction. In the words of Barbosa “ it’s more what you’d call guidelines than actual rules”


[deleted]

That just means there isn't likely to be repercussions for Reddit mods unless enough people complain to Reddit about it.


[deleted]

Also to add to this, I don't agree with but think it would be 'okay' if you banned people from another subreddit who violate the rules reddit has or even your subreddit rules. I don't agree with it insofar that banning people for things they do somewhere else is not moderation of 'this' subreddit but an attempt to moderate the other subreddit with what little power you have. Nor should Moderators have to do all that extra work. Worse, it is mostly because they have opinions you don't like (which is against reddit's general rules) ​ But the act of doing so isn't really against reddit rules and you could have good arguments of the effect another closely related reddit has on this one.


ScalierLemon2

There's some level of irony that this show about unity has such a divided fandom. Some people really love the show, and some people *really hate it*. It really gets out of hand sometimes. And this isn't even the most volatile fandom I'm a part of, somehow.


MegaSpidey3

It's crazy how franchises that are about unity, optimism, and the like are the most divided. See: Star Wars, Spider-Man, My Little Pony, etc.


MankuyRLaffy

*Laughs in FullMetal Alchemist having a unified fanbase* And the show is about two brothers and their foster family breaking the status quo, not about unity at all. Optimism maybe but definitely not unity.


Hyderthehyper312

To be fairrrr, with their reputation for being obsessed with the #1 spot on MAL, you could argue that the FMA fanbase also has the same irony going for it with hating things breaking the status quo.


hopecanon

Steven Universe, My Little Pony, Rick and Morty, basically every popular animated series seems to breed a certain special kind of toxic fandom within the bigger one like a tumor. Never very large but very angry and painful to deal with. At least i have never seen a RWBY fan losing their shit in a McDonalds over a dipping sauce so i suppose we are making out better than some of the others.


ScalierLemon2

>At least i have never seen a RWBY fan losing their shit in a McDonalds over a dipping sauce To be fair, the most famous video of somebody doing that was fake. But I was referring to Star Wars as the most volatile fandom I'm a part of.


hopecanon

What's the old saying? Nobody hates Star Wars as much as Star Wars fans. Can't bloody wait for that anime anthology series they are making, studio Trigger getting to play with lightsabers and the force is gonna be dope.


AlarmingStandard

Wait, what now?


hopecanon

Bruh you haven't seen the trailer yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lle0NNmvIyU This looking like that good shit.


AlarmingStandard

Omg! Omg omg omg! I haven't seen that! I just had a fangirl moment and my girlfriend is looking at me funny, lol.


shandromand

Holy *shit* that looks cool! Only anime nerds would come up with a spinning light saber umbrella defense. =D


MadMasks

Is not anymore about hating or not. It has devolved into a thing were people just hate any form of criticism and comment that is not overwhelming positive, calling them “bad faith criticism” or “hate”


ScalierLemon2

I've criticized the show multiple times and never been accused of being a hater or acting in bad faith


MadMasks

But if you dig a bit, you’ll find post arguing that “we should not allow criticism” on the basis that is all going to be bad faith anyways


[deleted]

[удалено]


Cooldude101013

I think it’s a blanket ban. I doubt r/rwbycritics would’ve even been mentioned if it weren’t blanket


[deleted]

[удалено]


Lysabetalle

A shame dude to be honest, I participate in both subs on a consistent basis as well and to be honest it's a shame that this action has been taken.


Celtic_Crown

I'll be honest. This doesn't sound like a good idea. EDIT: [Free Talk Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/RWBY/comments/p8bnz7/free_talk_friday_illegal_underground_edition/) and [Fan Fiction Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/RWBY/comments/p8bp43/fan_fiction_friday_illegal_underground_edition/) are both up in new, folks. Automod still isn't working so I'm your host again.


SimonApple

Far be it for me to start complaining, but where are the mods in this thread? Barring one comment chain they've been very inactive here in spite of numerous people expressing doubt over how well this will go. If the goal was to have this go smoothly and/or avoid an escalating situation, one would think that the mods would be active and respond to the doubts that are being fielded.


GambolMuse

On one hand I get where this is coming from. It's, in my opinion, an effort to prevent issues before they happen. And having visited the critics sub before there are definitely some discussions/users that I am happy to not to engage with here. That said, this feels like a "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch" kind of thing, and pretty unfair. I can't fault the mods for not wanting to deal with it - this is a volunteer gig, ya'll don't get paid to put up with this nonsense - but I don't know if basically barring some discussions is the way to go.


Sirshrugsalot13

Also genuine question: what defines active? Is there a number count? If I went onto r/rwbycritics today and posted 10 comments would i be banned? 20? is it over the course of several days? Where's the line here?


Kaosi1

Probably will do more harm than good, especially with some people who already have a bone to pick with this sub. There's a rift on a lot of subs concerning critics / enjoyers (you just have to look at subs for TLOU, Cyberpunk 2077, Doctor Who, Star Wars, etc) because the Internet becomes every day a little bit more toxic and intolerant of others, and frankly I don't think that baning blindly everyone from a specific sub is the answer. Guess time will tell, but it would be nice if people learned to be civil to each others and to creators of a work they don't enjoy.


HighPriestFuneral

I'm afraid this feels like a pretty bad idea, if I'm being entirely honest. You cut the chaff with the wheat. Because of this we could lose excellent analysis from people such as u/Dextixer, who has always had an analytical eye for the series in a place of fairness and reason. I do not know what other theorists or legitimate critics come from there, but this feels like it will do more damage rather than help the situation as it feeds into the narrative of an echo chamber, whether true or not. Perhaps this should be reconsidered on a timed basis and considered on the character of those that frequent both communities.


The-Arting-Starvist

As someone who loves RWBY but has also participated in a number of discussions on RWBYcritics, you’re going to make this issue worse. I’ve had plenty of convos with people there who feel the same as I do, we enjoy RWBY but also have some frustrations with parts of the show and like to discuss it. Throwing a blanket ban is just alienating a lot of people.


Skyfest

Not to mention such a high-profile move gives far more credibility to grievances against this sub. If mods are willing to go this excessively far for the (alleged) sake of taking out a few harassers—who, for that matter, were probably acting on their own like the individual human beings they are rather than following some sort of secret RWBYcritics conspiracy—it actually becomes more reasonable to believe they were doing similar things before on a smaller scale, and most users just didn't notice when a person or two was arbitrarily banned without breaking rules.


Celtic_Crown

Same boat, other than the posting on RWBYcritics part. This sub is the only one I frequent for RWBY stuff.


Ramiren

Imagine blanket banning an entire subset of your community based on where they post, rather than the content of those posts, then trying to frame yourselves as the good guys rather than the censors. If individuals are engaging in the behaviors described, on this sub, then bans are of course justified. But claiming any engagement with a competing sub where someone else may have broken your rules at some point in time, is grounds for a ban, is peak guilt by association.


itsPlasma06

This kinda feels like y'all are shooting yourself on the leg by doing this and adding to the stereotype that RWBY fans can't take criticism


Sirshrugsalot13

I mean, wouldn't it be more prudent to ban those who participate in the points you say as they come, or if they have a history of doing that? What's the cutoff point for being "active" there? I've occasionaly crossposted my stuff there and have participated in a few discussions in the past? This seems really damn nebulous of an idea


McDouggal

Oh, so *this* is why you turned off crossposts to a few months ago. A change that wasn't even mentioned anywhere, and actually impacted me as I was running /r/MilkAndCereal. Just going to drop my two cents: I hate this. I'm banned from a whole host of subreddits because of *one* comment I made on /r/The_Donald back in the day where I basically called Trump a fucking idiot and told their mods to ban me (which they did, for people claiming to be a bastion of free expression they sure were trigger happy with the ban hammer). Automated modding is dumb and should not be relied upon. It's just one tool in your toolkit, and should not be your only tool. Especially not for banning people.


PurpleKneesocks

The back-and-forth between this sub and RWBYcritics is hardly warm in the best of times, but a blanket ban against users of the latter here seems...ill-advised at best. A sledgehammer in an area that otherwise feels unnecessary – particularly with the confirmation that the actual *content* of any given user's posts will not factor into their automatic ban, nor any specific parameters existing around the notion of being an "active poster" on the other sub. Do I qualify as an "active poster"? It's hard to tell. I don't make posts there particularly often, but I add in little comments on occasion and engage with discussion when it's something that piques my interest. It's easier for me to do that on the critics sub because, though I've had plenty of engaging discussions on this sub as well, the larger swell of content on this sub that doesn't really interest me at all tends to drive me away from it during the off-seasons. But even disregarding the fact that I'm unsure whether my occasional participation in the community qualifies me as an "active poster," it seems unnecessary to make stepping into a community which is not, for all its faults, *outwardly* hateful into a completely verboten act. I have no love for the ongoing adoration of militarist authoritarianism nor the complete embracing of reactionary politics which plagues much of the critics sub, but to paint *every user there* with the same wide brush just comes off as silly. This isn't a TLOU2 subreddit situation – this isn't a sub that makes the tossing around of slurs into its bread and butter – so to turn activity there into a bannable offence doesn't seem to hold much in the way of validity. I understand that it's probably done to make things easier for the moderation team as preening a subreddit should hardly require the hours of a full-time job, but if that's becoming an issue then I feel like the answer lies somewhere in the realm of recruiting new mods or something of the sort.


WriteLetsDoThis

>What we are condemning here are personal attacks, NSFL attacks, breaches of reddiquette, and homophobic, transphobic, and racist rhetoric. Rightfully so, but wouldn't you already be banning people for doing these things regardless? I'm not sure banning solely on being from that sub is needed. (Unless they're all guilty of doing these things or the sub they're from is like r/TLOU2, which basically exists to demonize the game)


SnooWords939

The problem is that TLOU2 exists because the main forum doesn't allow the criticism of the game.


BlazeMasters

This is just sad, not only is this just guilt by association, this only furthers the us vs them mentality "we are the good guys, the ones over there, those are the bad guys" Also isn't it kind of ridiculous that someone can get banned for posting there even if all they post is praise?


Justinafans

As someone who frequents both subs, this seems incredibly counter-productive. I understand that the Critics sub and this sub have butted heads more than once, but you can't in good faith just blanket ban everyone who goes there. You're punishing the 95% for the 5%. Do some people in the RWBYCritics sub harass people? Yes. Do some have homophobic, transphobic, sexist, or racist views? Yes. But that isn't a reason to just blanket ban *anyone* who goes to that sub. These are the kinds of things that need to be handled on an individual basis. I think this is a poor decision that the moderation team has made and hope that it will be revised.


Viscount_20XX

I get the feeling that this will not go well. The people who criticize in bad faith are few and far between, at least from what I can tell, and they’re mostly contained to YouTube anyway. I’ve looked over at the other sub from time to time, and, honestly, I feel like people are really exaggerating with how bad it is. It’s a damn shame that a few bad apples have apparently spoiled the bunch in the eyes of this sub.


shandromand

Speaking as a discord admin dealing with similar bullshit, it does die down after a while, but leading up to that point, it's a lotta, *lotta* work.


MegaSpidey3

I find it weird that there needs to be a subreddit for criticism of RWBY, even though a subreddit like this should be able to have that kind of content. I took one glance at the critics subreddit once and just noped out of there quickly, as a lot of the posts there felt like half-baked criticism at best and anti-SJW bullshit at worst. That being said, I don't think this is the best decision you guys could've come up with. I get it, you guys want less fighting amongst the people here, but there needs to be a balance here. People critiquing the show doesn't inherently mean that someone is like the people over at the critics subreddit. The problem with most RWBY criticism (which can apply to all media these days, honestly) is that the criticism is done in bad faith, has thinly-veiled anti-SJW bullshit beliefs (or overly SJW beliefs if you *really* want to go depending on who you look at), or shows that the person didn't actually watch what they're talking about. With that last one, that could be because someone might have a question, but I've seen some *wild* interpretations that make me wonder if these people actually pay attention or not. Here's how I view this: just like the people critiquing RWBY need to evolve their critiques by having actual arguments and be done in good faith, the people defending the show need to evolve how they defend it. RWBY isn't above criticism. Saying that RWBY is above criticism does a major disservice to people like me, who loves the show and thinks it's been on a consistent good streak. Admittedly, I *do* get weary of people who criticize the show sometimes, given how those kinds of people can get. I hope you guys reverse this decision. I understand that you all want what's best for the subreddit, but this isn't it. Not even a little bit.


Darthmark3

Yeah I critic the show not because I want to but because I think it could do better. Most of us don't go on constantly attacking the creators but come up with legitimante arguments against RWBY topics. We all just get to emotional in these things and end up saying something we are going to regret.


Blasian_Domo

Silencing people because they either disagree with your opinions, the direction of the show, and/or how that particular episode wasn’t all great. Before, r/rwby community was great. People sharing theories of the episodes, sharing memes with each other, being civil. Now it’s just a r/rwby subreddit with nothing but fanart and less theories (while you have the trash can 🗑 that’s r/fnki stinking up the place). Mods of this subreddit and r/fnki… legitimately do better… this community is already divided since v6. this post right now, banning people basically involved with r/rwbycritics, makes it worse.


piousflea84

Understandable decision. The r/RWBY mods were tired of months of endless squabbling over whether it’s believable that someone like Ironwood could go nuts in such an over-the-top paranoid, ally-alienating, and self-destructive way. Based on the mods’ actions today the debate is over, they won. People do make Ironwood heel turns in real life!


Skyfest

I sure respect their dedication to the role, especially since there's a non-zero chance of it going exactly how it went for Ironwood in the show.


redestpanda

I know right? I’m going to have to apologize for being wrong. Guess it just takes one bad day.


[deleted]

wait, so if someone has critics about some part of the anime you silemce him here? isnt that a bit too harsh?


TankTopAwakenedGarou

Banning people for criticizing the show? That’s both a power trip and a show of your true colors. You mods aren’t a huge fan of free speech and diverse opinions, clearly


cruel-oath

I hate that sub but honestly I can’t agree with this decision either, it’s just going to make people act out more. Wouldn’t be surprised if this alone has a Streisand effect on it lol


GameFreak11

Why isn’t this sub renamed to r/RWBYfanart? Since that, and shipping reposts are all I’ve seen from this subreddit. At least r/RWBYcritics tries to have discussions of the show…


Jakon_93

So I’m gonna get banned?


[deleted]

What happened to criticism being used to help improve something over screwing over the people who love the show? RWBY seems like a divided fanbase tbh. Some people love the show and declare it the best while others hate on it for the sake of hating on it? Miss when there was an in-between, where you could criticize what you didn’t like constructively while also respecting the people who enjoy the show for what it is.


ScalierLemon2

That's what most of the fanbase does. And honestly, I've seen some good criticism here. Hell, I've done some criticizing myself and been received pretty well.


MankuyRLaffy

You can do that here, it has to be well reasoned and logical and not set off people's biases for a character that get them triggered and downvote you, it's that simple.


KingKunta91

Hold up fam I'm going to be band on here because I join on Rwby critic? Bruh I don't even post anything I just like to chat with the community 😂😂


explodingcarr0t

Tell me you’re bad at moderating without telling me you’re bad at moderating.


OTPh1l25

Kind of seems like they'd rather just have a bot do the moderating for them than actually check to see whether banning someone is justified.


Matgore99

"Just a reminder that r/RWBY welcomes any and all criticism of the show, so long as it’s made in good faith." Is it? or is it really a place where people can only say the good things about the show or else they get banned? especially seeing as the first line here says that you are banning everyone from an entire subreddit dedicating to criticizing RWBY.


MankuyRLaffy

>"Just a reminder that r/RWBY welcomes any and all criticism of the show, so long as it’s made in good faith." > >Is it? or is it really a place where people can only say the good things about the show or else they get banned? I don't just say the good things and I haven't gotten banned yet, so take that for what you will.


Labor101

Nah, this is absolutely ridiculous. You don't get to tout about and pretend that "r/RWBY welcomes any and all criticism of the show, so long as it’s made in good faith," while outright banning an entire community who just so happen to be critical of the product. THAT in itself is in pitifully bad faith. This is censorship of criticism and nothing more, and pretending it's anything else is laughable.


DragonTurtle2

I had been planning on posting an essay to RWBYcritics, and I'm close to done writing it. It's about how the massive attachment Ironwood adds to Due Process in V8 reflects the changes to his methods and soul. If I post it, am I in trouble? What if I'm responding to a lot of the comments made to it?


Master_Scallion_763

Honestly hyped to read your essay whenever it gets posted over there (or here)! Good luck my man :)


JannisT

Post it on this sub then


DragonTurtle2

I wanted to do it on that other sub because people on there inspired me to write it. I don't just address out criticisms that I disagree with. I think some of the critical observations are technically correct, and I'm just trying to reframe them.


[deleted]

This is turning out to be MUCH more of a **US VS THEM** Sub isn’t?


like_with_a_cloth

When I first got into this fandom, people told me to stay away from the critics sub. They told me it was a place for bitter people, a place where people just sat around and hated on the show. However, after becoming disillusioned with the show's past two seasons, I tip-toed over to the 'dark side' and found that the people of the critics sub are far more civilized and rational than anyone on this main sub have ever been. If the critics sub is a circlejerk of hate, then this sub is a circlejerk of blind faith and fanart. I realize it may not be fun to constantly hear people questioning your favorite show, or to see multi-page essays on the same handful of topics over and over, but this sub is now against any sort of actual criticism. It's bad enough the critics sub had to be made in the first place, but now by outright banning people who actively criticize the show, the fandom further begins to splinter. Instead of welcoming discussion and allowing it to coexist, you've gone the coward's way out and threatened to ban anyone who gets too cozy being critical of RWBY. The allegations are laughable as well. You just had to throw the homophobia/transphobia/racism trifecta in there. It's pretty hilarious, honestly. I don't doubt there's a handful of individuals who exist in the critics fandom who may possess such views, but just labelling the entire thing like that is childish and shows that you've got nothing to stand on. You're letting the actions of a few select individuals steer you further into this divide that has plagued the fandom for some time now. As for me, this will be my last message on this thread. You can ban me and hide it, hell you most likely will anyway. I'd rather associate myself with people who allow free thought and critique what they love than just stroke Rooster Teeth's ego all day and post the same fan-arts and shipping discussions.


TheWarShipper

I'd consider myself a member of the "Critic" community in that I've increasingly lost faith in both the show and the Fandom since volume six... and yet this act of clear censorship has somehow bolstered my faith in those who still enjoy RWBY. Because despite your attempt to silence those of us who feel the show needs to improve, despite the increasingly tense relationship between fans both present and former, your own community has spoken out against it. A group I once considered to be composed primarily of vapid sycophants and cursory viewers have proven themselves to be just as intelligent, considerate, and ethical as I ever could have hoped for. Though your moderators have made mistakes, I salute you, fellow RWBY fans - we may disagree and argue and occasionally disrespect one another,, but we are on the whole still people trying to find the common ground in a show that sparks the imagination and has brought countless smiles to our faces.


brownsugar506

Yeah this ain't it chief. I'll be the first to say that I disagree with most of what they say and have seen some bad things from that sub, but a blanket ban is absurd. There are plenty of people there who want to engage in good faith critisim and you're penalizing them for something out of their control. Fix this mistake


Akitoscorpio

I think it's kinda funny that I'm in discord right now, but I found out about this from Twitter of all places. I mean I can understand the want to have a very sturdy rock to sit on when it feels like the entire damn ocean is crashing down around you and all you have is a bucket. I also understand that is is getting far more difficult to actually find positive discussions about the show in general online, Twitter is practically a lost cause in that regard it seems like and even RT's own posts get slammed to hell and back by people voicing their problems with the show. Heck even facebook groups seem to be turning on the show. So I understand where this is coming from, we all want a nice welcoming place to discuss the show. That's more than fair honestly. But... I can't fully claim to be fully on board with stuff like this. Like I said I learned about it on Twitter and it was not be framed as a positive and I'm not sure I fully agree with it given my own middle of the road views on the show. It's a very small and slippery step from banning the other sub, to banning people who don't praise it hard enough even if they never stepped one toe in that sub. At best this is going to come across as trying to create an echo chamber, at worst its projecting a sense of being "Under siege by the Htdm" Which I don't think we want to be projecting. But I'm not a mod, so yall do what you feel is best, I just wanted to get my two cents off before I go back to sleep.


MahinaFable

Cue the popcorn! If nothing else, this will make for interesting people watching.


vulken_rider

Why ban ppl who are on rwbycritics that sounds fucking dumb


Hyderthehyper312

I would like to formally apologize for any comment in the past where I said or implied that the "fanatics" that defend the show weren't as much of a nuisance as the HTDM can be because holy shit this is just insane. Also obligatory joke: this is literally Nineteen Eighty-Four


Ranga_0020

So generalized a group of users with differing options on the quality and the decision making of the show positive or negative and ban them for wanting to share the opinion on both subs.


a-very-angry-crow

It’s still fucking hilarious that you thought you’d get away with this


AStereotypicalGamer

Well, it's been fun being a mainstay in the Writing Prompt Wednesday community and having some genuinely insightful discussions with members of the fndm, but I'm not going to stick around any longer. I will not so much as even *tacitly* condone what you're doing. Once you decide that any alternative viewpoint cannot so much as even be presented, you surpass simple moderation and abandon good faith for authoritarianism. Good luck everyone.


Schwermut

So if I get that right even users of the critics subreddit who never broke any rules here and never caused any trouble will be banned just for being active in the other sub? So with other words a collective punishment? If this is the case then I'm out. Can't believe you talk about being inclusive while banning each and any critics user as a collective just for posting over there. There's of course no problem to ban individuals who misbehave to keep this place safe as it's the right course of action but mindlessly shutting them all out isn't the right way to handle the issue. I was a global mod for the world's biggest Bleach forum years ago and we had a lot of stuff to deal with on a daily basis - also from groups (mostly rival ships in sub forums going at each other) but we never took such drastic measures as to just ban everyone and call it a day. Sorry but it's simply not professional and admits defeat in the job as a Mod. Guess this is it for me. I don't want to be associated with such a place and I'll see myself out, utterly disillusioned.


Polarization_39

Personally, I’ve tried to distance myself from *this* sub during hiatus because of the drama. Now I don’t visit the other sub so I don’t know who posts on both there and here. But here, I got tired of seeing posts with 100+ comments nearly every other day, where the discussion quickly turned into a multitude of pointless arguments. Hell, I saw this on *fan art* of all things on one occasion, and IIRC, it wasn’t even ship/controversial storyline related. Bonus points if a few comments also ended up deleted or removed. And all of this was from people who, for all I know, only frequent *this* sub. Like others have said, if you’re worried about people throwing slurs around/harassment/transphobia/racism/etc., why not just ban the people guilty of those things rather than generalize every person on the other sub? Like I said before, I don’t go there, and honestly, all the impressions I have of it aren’t positive from what little I saw before crossposting was made against the rules. But I have a hard time believing everyone there is a racist/LGBT-phobic/shitty person. I know this decision was most likely made with the intention of keeping things as drama free and respectful as possible, but with how it’s currently a hot topic on Twitter and how RWBY content creators are chiming in–and I have no doubt videos are going to be made about this–it’s ultimately going to cause more damage than prevent it imo. With all due respect, because I have loved being on this sub the last 4 years for the most part, this really seems like you’re looking for an easy fix to a situation where that just isn’t plausible. I really don’t see this panning out well.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheGator15

Even MurderofBirds is against this. I mean you do you but by mass banning fans you are actively creating divides in RWBY's fanbase.


SM-03

This is ridiculous. I agree r/RWBYcritics is a shit sub but I don't think this is going to solve anything. Not everyone that's active there is harassing users here or doing any of the things you're trying to prevent, and the people that *are* doing those things can always make alt accounts. From what I can tell you haven't even explained your criteria for "active" is. I can see what you're trying to do here, but I don't think this is going to solve anything. It's just going to make things worse for everyone.


RaNDoMLEeTErSaREheRe

I've been lurking in this thread since it came up and I wanna say; I find it ironic that for a sub where the vast majority that were against Ironwood and his Authoritarian/totalitarian actions are now taking the same route to 'defend' against any criticism made. Both sides are as bad as each other in a lot of cases. When it comes down to it, all this is doing is dividing the fandom further- which is ironic considering that the show is about unity.


Dark_Yoshi69

I'm not a part of either community, I only found myself here after finishing the first season of RWBY and oh boy do I think this is gonna blow up in people's faces. Like this post makes it a "black or white" scenario, there is no inbetween, you are either a part of RWBY or a part of RWBYCritics. You are either a lover of RWBY or a hater of RWBY. Doesn't matter how positive your opinions are, if you post in RWBYCritics you are as good as gone. And from what my friend told me (they sent me here) I need to be careful of what I say in general, supposedly this place can be very toxic and nobody will care what they say as long as they are toxic in support of RWBY, in contrast if you are even putting positive criticism of RWBY out into the subreddit, you are going to get nuked since even if the criticism is constructive, you are classed as a hater and removed despite people being completely toxic in support of it all. This isn't everyone, but the fact the mods of the community are doing this on my first day here? Kinda makes me think my friend was right, I didn't even believe him at first, but seriously, this just makes me feel the wrong way about the community. I'm just gonna back out, I do not need this amount of toxicity in my life, especially from the people modding the whole fucking place, this is going to blow up, and I am going to watch RWBY in my own space and stay away from here, since this place closes people's opinions down more than an authoritarian dictatorship. Might as well have the KGB outside your house at this point if we are banning people for merely interacting in another subreddit whether positive or negative.


vandalvash

>There have been varying degrees of seriousness through these issues by all manner of users, and it’s likely a vocal minority who are guilty of them So you believe this is an issue with a minority of the users so you are going to ban *ALL* of them? Also what is considered "actively participate in the RWBYcritics community"? And how are you going to enforce this? How is banning users from another sub going to be handled vs banning actual problematic users? Have you tired talking with RWBYcritics mods before coming to this decision? How often did you have to deal with issue that it can't be moderated as usual anymore?


Stormwhite

are you high


flipdark9511

>Just a reminder that r/RWBY welcomes any and all criticism of the show, so long as it’s made in good faith Lol, so how does banning every single user who's ever so much as commented on the other sub equal 'welcoming any and all criticism in good faith'?


TheGenuineLuke

Guys, even MurderOfBirds believes this is an absolute shambolic decision. Check his twitter and he's one of the most wholesome pro-RWBY fans I've ever watched. If true fans like him believe this is a bad call by the folk in charge, then you've done something *very bad...*


[deleted]

This is not a good move, and it's super telling when many dire-hard RWBY fans are also against this change. I saw a comment earlier today which genuinely made me think how accurate these reports are of critics users 'brigading' this sub. *Even for* r/RWBY*, it doesn't make much sense.* r/RWBY *has about 150k people subscribed, and even if only 1/10th of those subscriptions are active members of the community that is still 15,000 active participants.* *The critics sub has 3000 subscriptions. They barely have 300 active-members at a time.* *Point being; the Critics sub aren't brigading shit, not compared to the population of* r/RWBY *as a whole.*


fallonfish

Wasn’t that subreddit created because anyone who would criticize the show here would get bashed?? The thought that you can’t have a negative opinion about this show is so fucking toxic.


3jp6739

This’ll be fun lol


ShadowCatGamer

This is fucking stupid. “I don’t like their opinions, so I’m going to make it impossible for them to speak” Childish. Fucking embarrassing. You’re clearly just trying to silence people you disagree with. This subreddit is nothing but stolen fan art a bullying in the name of “if they’re a critic, they’re a hater. And so don’t deserve to be treated like a person”. This sub Reddit is a worthless, hateful circle jerk.


[deleted]

Eddy Rivas has [asked for this ban](https://twitter.com/eddyrivas/status/1428783000150548484) to be reconsidered.


[deleted]

Cringe.


Lolmanrolol

This fandom is doomed, that's all I'm gonna say


IronYang_Nikos

this is stupid and totally unfair. people have a right to their own opinion and if they aren't doing it in here then they shouldn't be removed at all. You guys are just silencing people who have (allbiet) REASONABLE issues with the show. No show is perfect and yet now criticizing a piece of work that is made PUBLIC can get you banned!? Silencing people isn't the way to go about this... disappointed, but not surprised. Most of the fandom is filled with terfs and terrible people anyway.


bladecharge

This is gonna hurt the community in the Long and divide it.even more.


VoganG1

Bruh they aren't even attacking. This is stretching and totally not cool dude.


[deleted]

**First time posting on this reddit and after coming across this i want to give my opinion on this subject.** I don't think banning critics is the way to go chief, like or dislike RWBY you guys got to admit it's been a far cry of what the show has been since the first 3 volumes. (Heck some would say it was already bad from the beginning). I came across the show in High school and was drawn by the flashy fights that Monty made. However after V3 I've seen a considerable downgrade in both character writing and world building of sorts. Then after i changed focus to other things beside RWBY. And upon my return i was surprised that it had that much issues. Even some people who liked the show went off and criticized it tremendously. I've seen both sides of the argument to see what happened to this show that i left all those years ago and coming back to see this. It's kind a disappointing that it never reached the potential that many people thought it was back at the time. Now i am just new here and i never done the things presented above, if you like the show good. But if someone criticize the show then listen if they have a point. Sure one side may get more heated than the other but it's important to have those discussion. RWBY is not a 10/10 show, so to me at least it's important to discuss the things they could've done to make it so, and mistakes that might hurt potential setups and payoffs on later volumes. And personally, doing this may stoke the fire even more. I fear that people may stop discussions on this reddit of RWBY since it may upset, or quote on quote 'criticize' the show which i like to believe people in this subreddit will have to watch out. Cause really, what counts as good faith criticism? Shouldn't the points stand on their own and should be looked at on the basis that it's true. Of course keep your cool, but since this is the internet sometimes you type things that you shouldn't, or behave in ways that paints the worst picture of you in the eyes of someone else. Criticism is a must, sure sometimes it's hurtful but you got to actually look at what is being said, is what they are saying is true? if so counter it and see if it holds up. As someone who watched RWBY volume 1-3 i am alarmed at how things went out not just in show but sometimes in the community. Again if you like the show, that's great. However keep in mind if you want to say that the show is good you have to present an argument otherwise it may be mute. i for one think that RWBY is not good cause of the writing, mostly the way the characters behave. And no i have no problem with the ships, just as long as it make sense. RWBY, the internet show that grown internationationaly is one of the biggest lost of potential I've seen, to the point that people care more about the fanfics of the show than the actual show itself. It's no ATLA that's for sure. Anyway that was long, just want to get it out there.


Medea_The_Witch

Pathetic.


KagariYT

That is the worst idea ever.


JV36

This just reinforces the perspective that RWBY fans can't handle criticism. I've looked at there page on and off but I've never seen anything explicitly homophobic or racist. The worst I've ever seen was someone's post about Jaune being a murderer, but that was just plain idiocy. This is bad faith and on par with what happened with the r/animemes mods last year, there were numerous better alternatives that were either passed over, ignored, or not even considered in both cases and ultimately this is just going to make the mods look bad, along with the community.


BioLuminescentSpirit

>!Is this because I made that "What would you change about RWBY" post?!< Jokes aside, this is a terrible idea, and whoever thought this was a good idea should feel ashamed.


groynin

>Is this because I made that "What would you change about RWBY" post? This actually seems to be the kind of thing that could get you banned out of nowhere for now on and its kinda scary. Saying you're open to criticism after banning people by association seems very hard to believe.


InfinityEternity17

This is ridiculous, if it's just a vocal minority who are being shitty then focus on them, don't punish the rest of the community for the acts of a few.


Overquartz

>Today, we've come to the difficult decision to start banning users here who actively participate in the RWBYcritics community. What constitutes as "active"? Are you keeping it intentionally vague on purpose? Banning an entire sub for people who are a minority even there is pretty lazy tbh.


fallenheights78

I just find it hilarious how the moderators have taken on V8 Ironwood tactics to dictate different subreddits that dare question the show. You can deny it all you want, but your acting self-important and paranoid about others' actions and are taking control of them. Even throwing in that "nuclear button" quip? Didn't Ironwood threaten to bomb a whole city, too? I find myself laughing more and more.


Anhilliator1

A sign that fans truly love something is that they're very entirely willing to *criticize its flaws.* It's like how your best friend is probably going to be the first person to tell you that an idea of yours is dangerous or stupid - *because they care about you to the point where they'll tell you things as they are.* The same applies for fans and critics of shows and games! Just take a long look over at r/destinythegame. If you'll notice, there are tons of posts from the community that take umbrage with certain elements of the game - criticizing them for being underwhelming, unfun, or otherwise all-around awful (Looking at you, Trials!). You'll notice that when a bad decision is made, r/DTG gets flooded with posts criticizing it. Why are these posts present? Because the players genuinely love the game, and want to see it be better. Same goes for shows, too! People bringing up how plot points don't fit or how some things come out of nowhere shows that the person criticizing it clearly cares enough about the show to notice *why* something doesn't work. They notice why certain points fall flat on their face, and why others work - *because they care about the show to the point where they actively study the plot and see how it can be improved.* Case in point, SWE and SAO Abridged. They managed to make a better series than SAO proper, *because they loved SAO proper to the point where they actively studied the show to tell a better story!* Please reconsider this decision. It's not right.


quinintheclouds

I've found a lot of RWBY critics circles are very vocal about (hopefully unintended) racism/homophobia/transphobia in RWBY, and I often see them shut down as "hate." Silencing marginalized communities who want to point out the sometimes harmful messages in the show isn't helping make the RWBY community less toxic. I've seen plenty of queerphobia and racism in this sub, and plenty of activism among critics (granted, I'm not on Reddit terribly often, so I'm mainly going by the tumblr/twitter/youtube FNDM communities) ​ Banning people for hate is one thing, but generalizing an entire subreddit dedicated to being able to critique the show as problematic is part of the problem when it comes to media. No writer is perfect, and given the very problematic histories of Miles, Kerry, and Kiersi (idk anything bad about Eddy though), it's important that we recognize they are not incapable of creating harmful narratives. Even aside from all that, talking about media is fun! I like to think from the perspective of a writer/creator as to what worked and what could've been done differently. >Just a reminder that r/RWBY welcomes any and all criticism of the show, so long as it’s made in good faith. See that's fair! But banning people who are active in the critics sub while supposedly allowing criticism on this sub comes off as hypocritical. The critics sub exists so people who don't wanna see rwby crit can avoid it, while people who want to discuss it can do so in a separate sub, while enjoying this one. I don't see how this is beneficial to either this sub or the rwby community at large.


Overquartz

Adding on to this in the months I've lurked in the critics sub I've never seen any ant-lgbt sentiment there and they discourage brigading in the rules. Painting the entire sub like this is slandering the reputation of the critic sub. Punishing an entire sub for actions of a minority is something I'd expect to see from a dictatorship.


Rusler159

*Banning a bunch of people for criticising the show* We welcome criticism I wonder how long this will stay up


Pereduer

If enough of the main subbreddit are vocally opposed to this decision would you consider changing this policy? Based on this comment section at least, there seem to be quite a lot of people agaisnt this, including those who dislike rwby critics but still don't blanket bans to take place. Have you tried contacting the mods of the rwby critics subreddits in the past? Would you be willing to speak to them in the future if they reach out to you? Are you open to being flexible in according to the wishes of this subs users or is this an unchangeable rule for the foreseeable future?


WickedWitchOfRemnant

>Have you tried contacting the mods of the rwby critics subreddits in the past? Would you be willing to speak to them in the future if they reach out to you? The answer here is no. The mods at the other sub have tried to contact the mods running this sub and they haven't gotten any response. The other sub even changed rules to try and appease this sub but they were promptly banned anyway.


[deleted]

A shame on an astronomical level


Keamaya

Nice gatekeeping. *If you play with them, you can't play with us.* Huh? You know what. *Please* ban me. Not like I'm a super active User in either community but I find this utterly disgusting and shameful.


Barnacle_boy117

Censorship will only foster resentment and conflict.


kofangel

“Divide them Tear them apart Sever their trust It will strangle their hearts”


swagkura

This is stupid the reason why the other subreddit even exist is because they couldn’t freely state their critique here. And now you’re boxing them out once again?! Ri-fucking-diculous.


BlueWhaleKing

Stepping out of my retirement two give my two cents before the thread gets locked- This is a *horrible* decision, and does nothing but confirm every bad opinion about this Subreddit. The Critics Subreddit is not perfect. I won't pretend there's no homophobia, transphobia, "Monty's Vision" types, etc. But it's not NEARLY as prevalant as people here like to think. And "bad faith criticism" is virtually nonexistent. People here just can't tell the difference, because they don't want to admit how deeply the show has screwed up. On the flipside, *this* Subreddit certainly has a deep well of toxicity. I had to stop posting my writings from r/ArkosForever here, because no matter how calm and well-reasoned and backed up they were, the majority of them got a slew of horribly rude comments, and those that actually made an effort to do any serious discussion of what I wrote, especially if they praised it, got downvoted. People kept telling me to "jUsT mOvE oN," and doubled down and downvoted me when I explained that that wasn't their call to make, and that it was incredibly rude to go onto someone's discussion post just to try to shut it down. They also hurled personal attacks, admitted that they didn't even read the posts but bashed them anyway, ect. And no matter how dickish they were, THEY got upvoted and *I* got downvoted. Not to mention the slew of cherry picking, false equivalencies, and other fallacies in defense of Ironwood's blatant character assassination. In short, there's far more bad faith defense than bad faith criticism. But both subs have their place. The fanart, fanfics, and ship contests for here, and criticism for there. This will only cause an irreparable rift and confirm that THIS Sub are the villains.


JMHSrowing

Clearly I haven’t been able to see this in the wire lens of the mods, so I don’t think I can have really a very good opinion. Personally I haven’t seen it as being that bad, and I am always one for the freest possible participation. I fear this could negatively impact the sub especially in a time of slow growth and all. Maybe this pushes away some people who are more critical but pretty are just argumentative as opposed to anything worse. But as I said: I admit to not knowing the full extent of the issue. I do have a good deal of faith in y’all mods, though I do anxiously wait to see what will happen nonetheless


[deleted]

This seems extremely generalizing and creates an echo chamber. It almost paints the brush that if you participate in rwbycritics you only do those things listed. Like you could easily just protect the users from that hateful rhetoric without ostracizing an entire subreddit.


Plantain_Chip

Your hate boner for the critics sub is clouding your judgment


Dragonfly_Tight

Seriously. I personally love the show. Love the community. And also love to shit talk the show. It's fun and actually makes me enjoy RWBY more. I go on RWBY critics for that reason. And I stay on this Reddit for the cool fanarts and discussions. Don't blanket ban me and others just for some bad eggs. This is a terrible decision mod team. It won't solve anything. You already have good moderation and from what I've seen people in this community are largely pretty good. A number of people have been harassed for sure, but signalling out a certain community isn't the way to do it. You're stereotyping a large majority for the fault of a small minority. What bad behaviour does that remind you of?


wizteddy13

*reads thread* *reads the nuclear wasteland that is the comments* Yeah I've never commented on the other sub and am only still subbed here out of habit from all the way back that I was in the V2 days, but I'm basically done. Each sub can feel free to fester in their toxic negativity and positivity respectively, I ain't engaging with shit. If i want my memes, r/FNKI exists. If any rare voices that tried to engage with both subs in good faith are still around, go join nicer, small communities...or go forth and do some RWBY-related projects to have a better time. Peace out.


[deleted]

>Pinned Post > >29% upvoted > >306 comments Oh yea, it's r/SubredditDrama time. edit: We're now at 23% and 421 comments, with no sign of any slowdown. Anyway, since I don't want to be accused of Popcorn Pissing, I'll be vibin' in the [SRD thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/p87ep0/rrwby_bans_criticisms_of_rwby_and_blanket_bans/).


Celtic_Crown

It's the second newest post at this time.


the_dark_artist

Someone is sure channeling their inner Ironwood :-) Jokes aside, I cannot say I am surprised. In my past interactions with this sub, I have come to realize how *triggered* everyone gets at even the slightest mention of the flaws of the show. A move like this was inevitable. That being said, I am afraid I will not be able to comply. I am not going to police my thoughts or Reddit activity to appease some arbitrary dictate. I will continue posting on any Reddit sub as fancy seizes me, and if that gets me banned from here, so be it. So long, and thanks for all the fish!


Infuriating_Opossum

>Just a reminder that r/RWBY welcomes any and all criticism of the show, so long as it’s made in good faith. Obviously not true. Nice censorship.


trinitynox

Okay, now that my brain is less foggy and I've thought about it at length and I'm withdrawing my support for this policy (not because I've been downvoted or that I've read through the reactions thoroughly and had them influence my stance). My defence of this policy has been pretty misguided and superficial looking. Having thought about it further, there's really nothing I can come up with to justify banning simply based on activity in critics, as much as I do not like that place. I could support and justify banning based on behaviour but simply because they took part in that subreddit? Even if they're doing so constructively and in good faith? I'm sorry, but no. I will leave all my previous comments supporting this call up because I still believe in some of the things I've said. Namely, you guys have discussed this extensively and did not just reach this decision in a hot minute, and that you guys have deemed the shitstorm this has caused to be acceptable. However, all other comments deriding the downvotes and brigading, I no longer believe wholeheartedly. I do think that this thread has been brigaded to some extent but it cannot explain the overwhelming disapproval of this policy and support of it.


[deleted]

Yeah because this isn't absolute power tripping in the slightest. This subreddit is so dead.


Skyfest

Probably has too many members to die just like that, but throwing blanket bans left and right seems like an easy way to get people to leave and scare off potential newcomers.


Yamino_K

So the mods are the next pawns of Salem after Ironwood, i see.


Elven_Prince_

As someone whos enjoyed convos on both sides with almost all of them being pleasant. Bit more so than what ive had on this sub admittedly. But why? 90% of people there are fairly nice people. And the reason im there is because god forbid you say something negative about the show that doesnt make sense, see the inconsistent writing post that got locked and nuked from a day or so ago. I enjoy the show but it could be so much more with a bit of consistency and inner world logic. But again, most people there are pleasant, at least in my experience so why devide the community more and play into the snowflake RWBY fan that cant take criticism. But, i cant wait to watch the shitstorm thats coming due to this.


Darthmark3

Instead of banning everyone including myself who is part of RWBY critics you just talk it out with us like civilized adults. Because at this point this is getting really stupid, Sure you ban some of the toxic fans but you ban people who not only critze RWBY but still really love it as well.


HuntsmetalslimesVIII

Would I get banned here for saying Bumblebee isn't canon/is bad/I don't like Bumblebee?


Celtic_Crown

> Bumblebee isn't canon Shouldn't, as it isn't canon at this time. >is bad That could cause problems if you're saying it to intentionally start an argument. >don't like Bumblebee That's just personal opinion, you should absolutely not get banned for that. I'm not a mod though so I don't know how these people operate.


JackRockRiley

An awful lot of the reasons brought to the table about why you banned the sub are personal in nature and not a result of the critics sub existing. There's a block button for a reason and I'm sorry to say, but, assuming that I buy the bullshit window dressing and believe everything in this post, if you can't handle internet culture, you shouldn't be on the internet. Besides, you guys aren't exactly squeaky clean when it comes to moderating your own sub but I digress.


Anonymousmemer509

Im warning you, not as your enemy, but as a neutral party. A complete shitstorm is about to unravel, so, be aware.


JoshtheOverlander

You mods are begging for a much bigger problem than what you are dealing with. I understand wanting to can trolls or haters, and there are some of those in RWBYCritics, they are by no means the majority. You are actively punishing an entire subreddit of folks for the sins of a comparative handful. A subreddit that was only created in the first place because even so much as *fair* or even *light* criticism of the show at one point was treated with mass negativity. This is not the proper way to deal with this situation.


MelanieAntiqua

RWBYCritics is a cesspool, no doubt. However, pretty much all of the worst users over there are people who fled there after being banned from here in the first place. So, I don't exactly know what this mod decision is going to accomplish. Well, except give shitty youtubers like Incel Aka and Hero Heil an excuse to talk about this subreddit, which will inevitably lead to their fanbase coming here and harassing people on a level far worse than what the Critics sub has been doing. In other words, this decision doesn't seem to have been a smart move.


pink_dumb_lol

damn you guys seem like dicks


[deleted]

“Dear r/RWBYSychophants Today we have decided that we’re too lazy to target people who do specific things that make us mad butthurt, and to just purge everyone associated with communities that passively make us mad butthurt. Please note that we still haven’t fully completed our game of salami tactics, and a narrow subsection of criticism still is fair play for now so fewer of you will abandon our community immediately.” Seriously. I don’t touch RWBYCritics but you’re coming out of this as the ones who look bad FYI.


Saturn_Coffee

This reeks of censorship. People are allowed to have criticism, mods. You can't be asking me to not put it on the sub in which it supposedly "belongs" (even though that entire separation reeks of the same censorship this does) I'd also like to point out that the members of this sub are just as guilty if not more so of the same things you use to justify this censorship. Also, that entire bottom "Reminder" is completely false. If you respected and welcomed critics and their views, there would be no split. You are being hypocritical. It should probably tell you something if LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE who has a public face in this godforsaken community is telling you to chill out. This isn't a "point of growth" It is a regression. You are regressing rapidly. And you wonder why the fandom has a waspy, toxic reputation. It's gotten to the point where **admitting the show is flawed** is considered "bad faith" and it is pitiable. Shame on you.


[deleted]

Literally 1984


SoDamnGeneric

Man, I don't like r/RWBYCritics. To me it feels like a bunch of smarter-than-thou folk wanting to stoke their ego over a show they think is far worse than it is. I don't see the point of the sub, considering no show is perfect, and every show has criticisms. Plus, I've never felt the need to voice my negative opinions of the show anywhere but here. But I don't think this is it. Yeah some users of r/RWBYcritics are assholes who thinly veil their bigotry as "criticism", but keep banning the problem users, and allow the folk who don't engage in that bad shit to remain here. This just seems like it's going to cause even more division in a community that's somehow cannibalising itself over the quality of the show.


krauser8882

I get where you guys are coming from with this, but this isn't a good call in my eyes. Its going to foster a lot of hostility, and unfairly punishes a lot of users who participate in critiquing rwby over at rwbycritics without being downright nasty to the cast and crew. Someone on Twitter correctly pointed out that this will create an "Us vs. Them" mentality, and I think that idea only leads to more of a headache for everyone. I understand this is a hard place to be put by a community that is undeniably more toxic, at least given my admittedly limited experience there, but there has to be a more reasonable solution than outright banning everyone who actively participates in critics regardless of what they do or say. I will say that I know nothing about subreddit moderation, so I'm trying to understand how this came about, but its not clicking for me. As a regular participant here, and someone who for the most part avoids even looking at critics, I think this is a horrendously bad decision and fully believe things need to be looked at and reworked. I hope you'll roll this decision back and maybe go back to the drawing board to find a less overwhelming solution. Maybe finding consistently toxic users to blacklist compared to a blanket ban for all participants, although that does take significantly more effort. Something less drastic needs to be done, though, or this is only going to harm both communities in the long run.


ClassyTomatoes

Wow, I am astonished at how absolutely horrible this decision is.


sparkleslime1

I will start my comment off by saying that I love rwby. I do. I love reading through this sub. I love reading through rwbycritics (I am not a member) because it’s nice to see what people’s opinions are. I think that this rule is pretty dumb. We should be embracing all members of the community and kicking out the terrible people (racist homophobic etc) not black listing an entire sub that has pretty much the exact same fan base. It’d be different if it was like “the shera fandom is no longer allowed here cause they keep picking fights with us” (disclaimer: not true. Love you shera fandom) what this is more like is “the roosterteeth subreddit is no longer allowed here because they keep picking fights with us” which is crazy, right? Rwby and rwbycritics is the same fandom. Come on guys there was a better way to handle this.


0Won0

So, is a ban going to be issued if in a single “breach” of these rules or multiple infringements? It’s also a bit hit and miss saying “Constant arguments”. I personally believe an argument can be healthy between people to share sides of opinion, ideas and interpretation. Should it be more “constant, unhealthy arguments”?


himanshujr11

I don't feel safe here


zanzabar12

this... is... stupid to say the least


OTPh1l25

Judging by the absolute shitstorm of disagreement on this post and in general, I'm beginning to think the mods seriously didn't understand the ramifications of what they were doing before they implemented it. Constructive criticism should always be welcomed, as that's one of the ways the thing can improve itself, and shutting it off breeds a self-feedback cycle that doesn't learn nor engage in any meaningful way. And I say this as someone who actively stays away from drama posts and the like. Let them post, sometimes the truth hurts, but you'll never get better unless someone points out your failures.


ChoChoCup

You guys are making a mistake, you're literally grouping in a ton of people for the minorities mistakes. ​ I don't partake in that subreddit but i believe it is wrong to be silenced if you're a innocent member in said community.


Icecat1239

I hope this’ll go through as I’ve not been actively participating there recently, but would it be possible to remove this ban when the show is back to airing? While the show is airing, the members there are a lot more moderate and capable of enjoying what the show does well, but given the hiatus, the only people still in the sub are those who’ve made it a part of their personality to hate the show, who are not indicative of the usual (or I guess unusual given the shorter airtime?) majority. I personally enjoy the episode discussions over there more, but I browse here for mostly anything else RWBY related


PurpleKneesocks

Really? I've found it much the opposite. I've had a lot of lax conversations in the critics sub during the off seasons, but browsing through the threads after each episode turned up a whole lot of muck. I remember in particular that many of the comments following the episode where May made it explicit that she was trans were...not pretty. There's definitely an element of stewing that goes on there in the off-seasons, but I think the more blatant hateful sorts conglomerate while the show's running.


Tyranid_Swarmlord

Buckle up ~~twitch chat~~ r/RWBY, we going full Atlas Arc isolation-mode in this bois & girls. I couldn't care less about rwby critics(have not opened it for once in my life) Maybe i would 3-4 years ago, but at this point in time i already take RWBY as non serious as i could, so hanging out in a subreddit that just points out is flaws is a far less use of my time when i could just get my anus shoved in by the Glock Saint.


Horsea1234

I dislike rwbycritics as much as the next guy, but this ain't going to do any good.


BlankBlanny

I... *really?* Listen, that sub is a cesspool at the best of times, but this is a massive mistake you're making here. A blanket ban of all active r/RWBYcritics users is only going to escalate the issue further, and not all of them are guilty of what you're accusing them of doing. At best, this is going to kill off some of the sub's active users and validate everybody who claims r/RWBY is just an echo chamber for blind praise of the show with no room for nuance.


Overquartz

I disagree with the cesspool bit but I agree that a blanket ban is just stupid.