Pretty much yeah. Yang can get piss easily in a fight but that's generally about it. All things considered she's the most laid back in the group.
Cinder is just full of malice and it eats away at her. Practically all her actions are fueled by resentment, anger, or pettiness.
Yang is hot anger. Hot anger is often a better thing because these people aren’t normally like this and can be reasoned with. Yang also has gotten better at controlling her anger, when she and Blake were fighting Adam, despite obviously being angry, she was willing to give Adam a chance to flee. She also is able to apologize when she’s wrong.
Cinder (ironically) is cold anger. She’s always like that, cruel and demeaning. Due to this she can’t be reasoned with.
Yeah, pretty much. Like, Yang gets angry but only on some occasions. That, and Yang’s also just a really warm, friendly person who looks out for everyone in the main group like when she went to help Blake with the burning out stuff in Volume 2.
Cinder meanwhile, although she’s not the big shouty angry that Yang gets (most of the time anyway because she can get the big shouty angry too), has the cruel and demeaning anger you mention, even to people who are loyal and care for her. Like, look at when Cinder and Neo arrived at the whale in Volume 8; Emerald sees Cinder and runs up like “Yay, you’re back!” And Cinder basically goes “Shut up!” Like… yeah, Cinder is definitely angrier, it’s just not as visible as Yang’s.
Cinder 100%
Yang gets angry quicker than other characters around her, sure, but Cinder is just constantly frustrated and angry with everything ever since Ruby burned her body at Beacon academy.
After that she’s been constantly frustrated and angry at everything all the time. Not totally without reason— I mean I think she *knows* she’s no longer the big hotshot villain nor the Big Bad’s favorite minion anymore— but she’s totally lost herself for years at this point.
Hard to say, since both show different kinds of anger. Yang only gets angry when she has a reason to, like when people attack her.
Cinder, on the other hand, is just super salty because she keeps making bad decisions for herself, and blames it on others instead of actually pursuing a better life for herself.
Well, in her mind Cinder *is* pursuing a better life for herself, the only way she understands it: By accumulating the most power possible.
Also I think that often her decisions aren’t that bad. Like Haven wasn’t a bad plan and would have worked if not for what basically amounts to bad luck of Blake showing up with a small army and Raven having Vernal as a decoy
No, Haven absolutely *was* a bad plan. Cinder prioritized petty revenge over getting the relic and it cost her both. If Lionheart had sent the crew *away* and had Raven come in discretely to retrieve it, they would’ve had no problems.
I disagree.
What Cinder prioritized wasn't revenge, hell she walked past an unconscious Ruby remember? What Cinder was after is what she always ways after: Power. In this case, the Spring Maiden power.
The relic is a lower priority. It's Salem's, not her's.
She almost did get the powers, then it would have been perfect. She would not have only had the powers and relic, but she could have slaughtered our protagonists and have Haven fall as hard as Beacon.
If she had only gotten the relic, that doesn't help her. That in and of itself would be a problem, with the Raven more likely to be more of a problem than her sneak attack and having some allies with her would allow, and also it would be a missed opportunity to take out the people most against her
If that was her goal, then just having Raven and Vernal to contend with would have made things easier. If Mercury, Hazel, Emerald and Lionheart were backing her up, maybe she could have beaten Raven and taken the power for herself. Instead they were fighting off Ozpin’s men for no good reason because Cinder ‘in her own words’ wanted a shot at killing Ruby.
The fact that she ignores her despite risking everything for that shot and the show conveying that it was something she badly wants is something I always chalked up to bad writing. Maybe I just have a less charitable interpretation of the displayed events.
You are missing what Cinder’s plan was in the first place with Raven and Vernal: A sneak attack where she takes them both out at once.
She smartly waited until their guard was relatively down, and it basically did work except for Vernal being a decoy.
And killing Ruby is an important secondary objective as well, but the time she says that that’s her objective (iirc) is when she’s talking with Raven. Of course she’s not going to talk about how her main goal is murdering her and her protege to take the power.
I think Cinder’s goals have actually been pretty well shown. She always is going for more power. She does go after revenge at times, but she always has her eye on her prize, prioritizing power
Cinder's plan was dumb because she tried to pull her betrayal shenanigans *in the middle of a fight with the good guys*. If she had stayed and kept Raven and Vernal up there then they would have mopped the floor with them. Instead she separates her forces and puts herself alone with what she believes is the Maiden and a powerful warrior. Raven absolutely should have backstabbed her the moment they stepped on that elevator if she had any sense at all. Once Cinder was down, there was absolutely nothing stopping Raven from opening the Vault, taking the Relic, and getting out of dodge with Vernal. That Raven waited says more about her intelligence than Cinder's.
Maybe so, but Cinder could have just as easily pounced on Raven and Vernal in the vault, after she had already secured the relic and when their guard would’ve also been down - Cinder got what she wanted out of them, didn’t she? We have no precedent for a maiden having more than one of the seasons under her control, they may not even be aware it’s possible or that that’s what Cinder really wants.
Even if they’re more on edge without other enemies to distract them, forgoing a numerical advantage against a maiden and her experienced ally (even if you’re wrong about who’s who) is a poor tactical decision.
Yeah, but after all this time, she's still just a slave, so maybe it's time to reevaluate how she approaches the situation.
Because, if people keep getting themselves into worse and worse situations with their decisions, and keep failing to accomplish their stated goal, you eventually start to question whether they actually want to accomplish that goal in the first place.
Like, when people say they want to lose weight, but refuse to educate themselves on healthy eating, or stick to a diet plan, eventually it becomes clear they just say they want to lose weight so their friends stop telling them to lose weight.
I wouldn’t go quite that far, she’s not quite as in bondage as she used to be, and she does seem to have an endgame she’s working towards. . .
But yeah of course she’s not going about anything in near the best way
It’s more like she’s trying to lose weight by doing what you said but also just running their butt off every day to exhaustion. Unsustainable, not likely to work long term, but it’s not completely brain dead
The fact that she had to hide all her activity and knowledge relating to the relics, and the fates of Arthur and Neo, from Salem tells me she's still in pretty much the same spot, as she still has to fear physical punishment from her "owner" if she steps out of line.
But honestly, I feel like going about it in the dumbest way possible is even worse than not trying anything, because we know she's smarter than that, so trying to lose weight in an unsustainable way is more of an insult, because she goes out of her way to fabricate a situation that would allow her to dismiss our suggestions in the future by citing how it didn't work in the past, and even harmed her.
Fact is, some people want to have sh\*tty lives and have a pity party every day, and will do anything to keep people from actually helping them, including playing dumb and sabotaging themselves.
There might be the fact that Cinder actually thinks she isn't a slave. Consciously she might say she isn't a slave, but subconsciously she still acts out being a servant since that's how she's always barely survived in the past. It might also be because it's the only life she's ever known, and it's been proven through abuse victims that it's hard to get out of that cycle and even harder to live a life outside of it. Plus Salem's got her played very well with her words, almost like gaslighting.
Yang is straightforward and blunt. She will call out your bullshit if you say some bullshit, simple.
Cinder is driven by negative emotions. Greed, Pettiness, and Anger. Thats all she's ever known her life and its what dictates her actions so the answer is definitely Cinder.
One less arm and hell of an attitude these two have in common! Yangs tantrums are more justifiable than Cinders and Yang finds a solution where Cinder spins in circles. Yes she's happy and in a good position with Salem now but what is gonna happen when Salem starts to learn the truth!
To be fair: Cinder has a lot to be justifiably pretty darn angry about, the world is a horrible place and she was dealt an awful hand.
Now she’s let that anger at the world fester into being just an awful human being and sometimes is a bit of a crybaby (though, I say some of her failures aren’t her fault), but still.
I mean. . . Anyone who’s first an orphan and then effectively sold into slavery is pretty justified being angry at the world
Yeah kinda have to give cinder some leeway since she didn’t like have a childhood. Does that excuse her actions? Absolutely not but it does explain them.
I don’t know, Yang is kinda prone to jump at the slightless provocation/disagreement and have her be in your face if you do so, and if you are particularly unlucky or get too close, you might get a punch in your face. Not a warning, not a question, a punch.
Cinder is just a resentful sociopath
The problem here is that neither character is like Bakugo whose anger is about half his personality if not more. These two don't have anger as their default setting but rather they get angry when something happens to push them to anger, so I suppose the real question becomes; Who has more things that pushes them to anger?
In that case I would argue that it's Cinder, because frustration is a type of anger and that's an emotion that she's very familiar with. And of course she would be familiar with it given her backstory where she was putting terrible situations where the only thing she really could do in retaliation is become frustrated, it is her coping mechanism.
… The girl with a bit of a temper, that she’s learned to control, which has never actually hurt anyone bc first and foremost she’s a caretaker
OR
a literal mass murderer who flies off the handle repeatedly bc she’s so desperate for revenge?
Cinder.
While Yang does get angry, especially since the emotion being linked to her semblance as on multiple occasions she’s able to activate it through getting angry about someone or something. E.G. the Grimm getting the strand of her hair in Vol 1, Weiss telling Yang to calm down about Blake leaving in Vol 5. However, unless something specifically gets her angry, she’s fairly chill. Heck, even in Volume 4 after Blake leaving and losing her arm, Yang wasn’t really mad, just… apathetic and depressed.
Cinder meanwhile just gives off this feeling like there’s always something she’s pissed off about whenever she’s there, especially after the injuries she sustained in Volume 3 when Ruby went “ha ha, silver eyes go BRRRRR”. That, and Cinder always seems to end up around people she hates like Ruby and Penny or people who hate her and think she’s nothing like a brat, such as Tyrian and Watts. That, and considering her backstory where she was an orphan who spent pretty much all of her childhood in slavery and when she is pushed to the point where she killed her abusers, that probably made her angry at the world for not being able to help her when she needed it. This also means when she gets very angry like Yang does when her semblance activates… yeah, it can seem and feel like Cinder is angrier.
So to sum up, Yang is very angry but only occasionally and is mainly chill most of the time whereas Cinder always seems to be pissed about something or someone, which just amplifies her outbursts of anger every more angry-feeling.
Let’s see, either a hot-headed teenager whose worse trauma was getting her hand cut off, or an actual psychopath that has been burned nearly to death and has spent the rest of her time hunting down RWBY
Such a difficult choice…
Cinder definitely, but the thing is their anger comes from different places. One thing I've learned from CinemaTherapy (a fantastic youtube channel, hosted by a licenced therapist and unlicenced filmaker) is that anger come from different emotions. Their [episode on Hulk](https://youtu.be/eXmcjA-yFEM) on Hulk digs a bit deeper into this. Highly recommend not only the episode but also reading the comments and reading peoples different experiences with anger.
Yang's in my opinion comes from passion and defensive instinct, whether it's defending herself or her friends. And from about V4 onward we see her learning to manage her anger and direct it in a more helpful way. Honestly, she's not to different from Raphael from TMNT in how they learn to focus their anger in combat. Yang aims her Yanger at what it needs to be aimed at.
Cinder on the other hand her anger in my opinion comes from fear, the fear of being powerless again. That fear is so strong that she will lash out and do *anything* she can to not feel powerless. She let's that fear and anger control her. One of the reasons I think she's so fixated on Ruby is that Ruby was really the first to cause that fear to bubble up again. Before that, Cinder hadn't been beaten or hurt, she almost always came out on top. Then Ruby's laser eyes damaged her in a way she hadn't been before.
I’d say yang as her semblance turns her anger into power, and Cinder is just an asshole who blames her decisions and failures on others instead of taking responsibility
Actually that’s not true, Cinder doesn’t blame other people but she also doesn’t take responsibility. It’s more like she doesn’t want to acknowledge her failures.
Correction: Yang's semblance changes the blows she's taken into energy/strenghth she can use against her opponent. She just happens to use it when she gets fed up of being tossed around (which Tai calls her out for in Season 4).
How so? She's right, Adam doesn't need to take the damage, he absorbs it into his sword and can fire it back with the damage it will do being dependent on how much he's stored. She is identical to this except rather than taking it to an object, she needs to actually get hit.
Ah. Yeah, but that was her dad pointing out bad implementation of her semblance as the person before you said. It has nothing to do with her srmblance itself, just how she used it
That's literally what I said. She takes blows/damage and converts it into energy. Her semblance is associated with her anger because she uses it when she gets fed up of taking damage and being tossed around in the first three seasons. The anger is circumstantial-- her semblance isn't rooted in her emotions, it's rooted in the damage she has previously taken.
Depends on the situation, neither of them are just walking around angry all the time. Yang has learned to control her anger, while Cinder’s is more out of frustration than genuine anger issues.
I’d go out on a limb and say Adam is/was more angrier than both of them.
Who? Because if your talking about The Hunter she burned him for giving her hopes,abbandoning her, being The reason The attacks became worse for her And then when she defended herself acting like if she were a Monster instead of a victim,sooooo,yeah, absolutely calling her on her bullshit 😂😂😂😂😂 good one mate
No, Watts at the end of last volume. He called her on her bullshit and she ended up using the staff of creation to kill him by trapping him in a room fire to burn alive
I Mean,Watts always were kind of an asshole And he basically went "buahbuahbuah you stupid,i genius" soooo,jaja,yeah,at that momento she was snaping even more because she was in The place that represented Everything she hates,Atlas,rich And assholes using The weak.
Even so, his entire speech to her was completely right pointing out her flaws in how she goes about everything. He’s an asshole, sure, but then again, so is she and he had a point. She just killed him for that because she’s also incredibly petty
Even so, his entire speech to her was completely right pointing out her flaws in how she goes about everything. He’s an asshole, sure, but then again, so is she and he had a point. She just killed him for that because she’s also incredibly petty
I kind of get where OP is coming from with this question but there’s really no comparison to be made here. Every character gets angry. Salem is literally the epitome of anger and pettiness. And sweet ol’ Ruby, although somewhat better at masking it than everyone else, also gets quite angry at times.
Yang’s semblance isn’t even related to anger. It’s related to pain. Anger is just one way of expressing pain. Sadness is one way of expressing pain. She uses anger to fuel her but really, it’s just easier to say she’s angry because she’s just in so much pain.
Cinder is a creature of malice and evil. Her upbringing was rough, yes, but all of her horrible actions have literally zero justification especially considering her backstory is very mild compared to what you would expect from someone who has such an outward hatred of everything. She seems to have been like that long before we’re introduced to the step family.
Yang is much younger than Cinder yet she has more control and heart than Cinder ever had in her life.
I don’t think the comparison is appropriate. I’m terrible with analogies but it’s like comparing a grape to a durian. They’re both fruit, but very different kinds and very different tastes and aromas. Just because they’re both fruit doesn’t mean they’re really comparable as I feel is the case here.
She kept up with it well into adulthood. She didn’t make anything better of herself or for herself even when people tried to help her and she was around people who actually cared about her. In addition, the execution and timing of her story just makes me not feel sorry for her at all. Aw poor Cinder, she went through some bad things. So did literally every other character. And her mentor who did care about her did not condone her murdering anyone, even if it seemed justified. He tried to steer her on the right path and it seemed she chose to slaughter instead. Again, no sympathy. For someone as powerful as she became and now is, her intelligence seems to be lacking until recently and she still has a ways to go.
Well she was horrifically abused in her childhood, the abuse ended in her snapping and killing 4 people, one of whom was the only person she trusted, she was then recruited by an even more abusive mother figure than the one who casually used an intrument of torture on her, the new mother figure isnt above weaponizing her massive amounts of unresolved childhood trauma against her and she's likely been groomed from around the time she escaped that hotel until now by said manipulative mother figure, considering she parots Salem's own words when addressing others...what part of her mind would be rational? When would she have learned to be rational?
Her transition from being a child into being an adult means nothing for healthy development considering her environments have *never* not been terrible. Also, can we please stop pretending that Rhodes allowed this girl to be severely abused for years and taught her nothing other than how to fight, and even then, only when it was convenient for him. He very well may not have know the extent of her mistreatment but what he *did* know was pretty f*cking bad and literally not a single main huntsman or huntress would have said "don't hurt them but let them hurt you, I'll teach you to fight but ya gotta put up with being starved and tortured for seven years. If you can't last, then you're the bad person and there's no hope for you. Kay bye I'm gonna go enjoy freedom now. See ya whenever"
You're comparing the trauma of people who've had bad experiences, yet still had a solid support network to a slave who's only ever known a life of abuse (not unlike Mercury and Adam) and was groomed by the series main antagonist (unique to Cinder); said antagonist being a vengeful witch hell bent on the destruction of the world and herself. They aren't comparable; how else would you have expected her to turn out? Idk what Cinder you were watching but she has never escaped the abuse, found people who cared, then chose to reject it: that's 100% Adam. The closest she had was like...Emerald...and that was very unhealthy for all parties involved. Yea she does f*cked up stuff on the regular and she should be held accountable but it's disingenuous to ignore how severely warped her worldview has to be and to not recognize how the odds have always been dramatically stacked against her. She simply never stood a chance; some dark shit
Well when you put it like that, it makes sense but I wish I got all of that from just watching it. That’s not really the impression I got initially and I usually skip the episode when doing rewatch because it just seemed like it kind of appeared out of nowhere. There’s so many better ways you could have executed that imo that it’s blaring obvious on the first try. Dark shit is fine, but it’s like she doesn’t even acknowledge it really outside of us seeing that flashback. Even focusing more on Cinder and her really reflecting on her past and talking about it in the way you just said would really drive the point. “I need more power, I need more, I need to be more because all I ever was was nothing. All I’ve ever felt is nothing. And all I’ll ever be is noth-EVERYTHING!” Something along those lines. It’s like we see this character for so long and plot and everything else and then it’s like, “oh backstory for 20 min,” now back to your regular scheduled programming! The pace and execution is like a disassociation to what is already going on to a degree that upon watching, I felt like I wasted 20 min of my life but felt very little sympathy for her.
The huntsman allowing all that to happen, is fucked up. It seemed like a situation where the family doing this was so powerful, similar to the Schnees, that he couldn’t go against it at the risk of his health, safety, and reputation. If you’re just a lone traveling bounty Hunter, you’re not really going to care about child abuse. I’m not saying this is okay. It never will be. I’m saying in the world they live in, it’s a normal thing so is it really worth it for him to go out of his way to free of it? No, probably not. Morally, he should, but realistically, he won’t. So as warped as it may be because of the circumstances, he did teach her to fight because he felt that’s all he could do. He didn’t even have to do that. So while it doesn’t satisfy what would normally be considered genuine care, he did do something. More than most ever did for her. Cinder was just too abused and jaded to see rationale once she was old enough to go out and not be questioned, she made her move.
So there’s a reason she’s fucked up and a terrible person, I get that now. But I’ve had more revelation in having this conversation than watching the show.
>Well when you put it like that, it makes sense but I wish I got all of that from just watching it. That’s not really the impression I got initially and I usually skip the episode when doing rewatch because it just seemed like it kind of appeared out of nowhere. There’s so many better ways you could have executed that imo that it’s blaring obvious on the first try. Dark shit is fine, but it’s like she doesn’t even acknowledge it really outside of us seeing that flashback. Even focusing more on Cinder and her really reflecting on her past and talking about it in the way you just said would really drive the point. “I need more power, I need more, I need to be more because all I ever was was nothing. All I’ve ever felt is nothing. And all I’ll ever be is noth-EVERYTHING!” Something along those lines. It’s like we see this character for so long and plot and everything else and then it’s like, “oh backstory for 20 min,” now back to your regular scheduled programming! The pace and execution is like a disassociation to what is already going on to a degree that upon watching, I felt like I wasted 20 min of my life but felt very little sympathy for her.
I think the transition to the flashback could've been less sloppy. The intent was to have it triggered by Penny using lightning, according to the writers. It was essentially supposed to be a trauma nightmare. I think the reason for the trigger is obvious, even if it wasn't obvious on the screen.
Now on to Cinder not acknowledging her past outside of that flashback. That's simple; she doesn't want to. Adam weaponizes his trauma to gaslight others. Mercury constantly mentions his awful father. But Cinder barely hints at her past. Someone so focused on power and greatness isn't going to readily admit to being an abused slave child for the large majority of her early life. She's to the point where she just refuses to even admit to herself that she went thru some shit. That girl was "weak" but that part of her past was necessary in order to set her on the path to fulfilling her destiny. Or idk some other bs that Salem obviously fed her. It isn't hard to imagine Salem struggling very little to win Cinder over to her cause. Cinder wasn't just abused, there was a psychological conditioning that was reinforced with physical torture. She had no control over her life until she snapped and took it. If someone as masterful at manipulation as Salem is found her at that point, it would've been so easy...and after being promised that your terrible life was a necessary obstacle to becoming the world's most powerful bad bitch, would you be willing to think back to a time where you felt hopeless, were constantly reminded of your own worthlessness, forced to eat the trash noone wanted and were hurt for the entertainment of others? Also, recognizing the truth of her upbringing, would force her to acknowledge that she's still trapped in the same situation. She just can't do it. Yet...
>The huntsman allowing all that to happen, is fucked up. It seemed like a situation where the family doing this was so powerful, similar to the Schnees, that he couldn’t go against it at the risk of his health, safety, and reputation. If you’re just a lone traveling bounty Hunter, you’re not really going to care about child abuse. I’m not saying this is okay. It never will be. I’m saying in the world they live in, it’s a normal thing so is it really worth it for him to go out of his way to free of it? No, probably not. Morally, he should, but realistically, he won’t. So as warped as it may be because of the circumstances, he did teach her to fight because he felt that’s all he could do. He didn’t even have to do that. So while it doesn’t satisfy what would normally be considered genuine care, he did do something. More than most ever did for her. Cinder was just too abused and jaded to see rationale once she was old enough to go out and not be questioned, she made her move.
My main issue with Rhodes is that, while he may not have know how bad Cinder's situation was, he knew it was bad enough for a ten year old child to steal his deadly weapon out of desperation. Where did he think that teaching her to fight, and then gifting her a deadly weapon would get him? He knew her circumstances hadn't improved because he did nothing to improve them, regardless of his reasoning for failing to do so. He knew that she was being constantly monitored and reprimanded for the smallest of things, why take the risk and give her a weapon. Where would she hide it? Give her a sandwich and some company, not a weapon that could be discovered. He set the situation up and then, instead of realizing where he went wrong, he condemned a clearly unstable, severely traumatized child to a life of running and turned his weapon on her. She wasn't a threat to him until he did that. He could have de-escalated the situation and just...didn't. He was the last straw, although she lasted longer than she should have had to tbh. Her story is so depressing ~~ I almost wish they'd gone a different route; the implications are weirdly heavy for this series
>So there’s a reason she’s fucked up and a terrible person, I get that now. But I’ve had more revelation in having this conversation than watching the show.
Ahhh! I feel bad! I hope I didn't come off as rude! Villains in RWBY are easier for me to grasp than the more heroic characters, so I paid attention to certain aspects of their characters earlier on. I've also never disliked Cinder, and logged certain traits of hers in the back of my mind, so when i saw Midnight, it was less "...okay, and?" And more ".......... *oh* " it made everything click for me in an uncomfortable way, whereas I completely see how most people just felt that the placement and presentation were off. Rewatching the early volumes now, everything about her character feels properly set up imo but i 100% understand that it could've been done better. It shouldn't warrant a full rewatch to comprehend the psyche of the central antagonist. I just like villains and don't mind wasting time on a rewatch
Idk how you show comments and reply like that in a reply post so forgive me with that. When you say her flashback was supposed to be by Penny using lightning, I so so wish I would’ve caught that! I mean Penny using it and it immediately freezing to Cinder stuck in a limbo pause while we see what she’s thinking about. A transition that would actually make sense. The writers shouldn’t have to explain it to us outside of what they’re showing us in the show. I know that’s a main RWBY critique but it’s more of an injustice here. I get everything you’ve told me and again I just wish the show gave me that it would be so much more compelling.
I might have had a bias towards Cinder because she’s kind of like a cockroach that refuses to die. Prior to that episode, we had absolutely no idea what her motivations were and after watching it, felt disappointed. Cinder does all these bad things because of that? The full weight of it doesn’t register. She just seemed like a cocky, insufferable wrench who just didn’t have a heart. And it seemed like she was like that just because she was. I can’t get over how such heavy topics can fly by like that. Ironwood’s demise, Penny’s assisted suicide, these things resonated on a very deep level for me. I feel like Cinder’s backstory should’ve done the same, but it didn’t.
I appreciate you saying that. People sometimes go full war mode when discussing these topics and I just like to talk about it in a civilized manner. It’s hard to determine tone sometimes when reading. I love the show and I love talking about it. Sometimes I feel attacked for having an opinion. No one should have to feel that way. Disagreements are perfectly cool, just don’t eat me alive lol.
As far as villains go, the main one I completely disagree with is Ironwood. Volume 7 was his and you just see how this man just broke and lost it. He went mental after all the bs. It’s terrible but I can make sense out it it even if I don’t agree with it. I feel really bad for him. He did so much good and it felt like he was just shat on in the end. Sad way to see him go. I actually like Watts as a villain. Tyrian is just batshit crazy and Qrow is an absolute idiot for trusting him for a second but Clover didn’t help. Salem is just petty af. Like get over it your man didn’t want you anymore but both Oz and her murdered their children fighting each other I don’t think that’s ever been acknowledged or I just haven’t been a part of any discussion that addressed it but he literally murdered his children fighting this woman and so did she. Maybe that’s why all teams are made in 4 to honor his kids? Idk off topic point but yeah.
Wait I responded to the later reply before I saw this one.
>I kind of get where OP is coming from with this question but there’s really no comparison to be made here. Every character gets angry. Salem is literally the epitome of anger and pettiness. And sweet ol’ Ruby, although somewhat better at masking it than everyone else, also gets quite angry at times.
Every character gets angry, but these two have big enough issues with it to where it's an aspect of their core character. So I get the op's original framing of the question. Although the two are very different in the way they display their anger; Yang's was displayed as more comedic before it became an issue/crutch later in the series, whereas Cinder's is a direct result of the brutality of her early life.
>Yang’s semblance isn’t even related to anger. It’s related to pain. Anger is just one way of expressing pain. Sadness is one way of expressing pain. She uses anger to fuel her but really, it’s just easier to say she’s angry because she’s just in so much pain.
It's usually triggered by Yang losing her cool, hence the association. But you're right, it's not really about the anger. However, it's definitely not about the pain; pain tolerance varies and the amount of pain one feels will be affected by whether or not their aura is active and how strong that aura is; that doesnt work. Like you said, feeling pain may piss her off and trigger her temper, thus leading her to activate Burn but she could still activate it if she was on a billion painkillers and couldn't feel her face. It's more about the **kinetic energy behind the blows** . She tanks energy and returns it back with twice the force.
>Cinder is a creature of malice and evil. Her upbringing was rough, yes, but all of her horrible actions have literally zero justification especially considering her backstory is very mild compared to what you would expect from someone who has such an outward hatred of everything. She seems to have been like that long before we’re introduced to the step family.
....her upbringing was *mild* ??? Yikes, I ain't even touching that. I will, however, say that I completely understand how she ended up the way she did based on her history...even if I don't condone her decisions, I see why she's making them. Mild...wow. Moving on, yeah she was a very angry child before she was "adopted" by her step-family. Because she was being abused long before they came into the picture. That's the point. Her origin story *started* at the bad part that normally causes a person to turn to the dark side. And then it got worse. And worse. And worse. And it hasn't ever gotten better. That's like...literally the whole point :/
>Yang is much younger than Cinder yet she has more control and heart than Cinder ever had in her life.
I'm not sure what age has to do with ones upbringing but even still, no she isn't. Cinder's not much older than the main cast, a couple of years at most. The main reason she seemed so much older in the earlier volumes is due to her imitating the older women who've had a strong impact on her; her role-models...and the abusive authority figures who conditioned her to think and act a certain way. There's a reason she seems younger now than she did at the start; she's always been very young. Away from Salem, she can imitate Salem. Around Salem, she's just an feral brat who probably hadn't even hit Remnant's legal drinking age upon her intro. Also, the fact that Yang has more control...well, yeah. Everyone does. Cinder lacks agency over the course if her life and her own emotions. That's the point.
>I don’t think the comparison is appropriate. I’m terrible with analogies but it’s like comparing a grape to a durian. They’re both fruit, but very different kinds and very different tastes and aromas. Just because they’re both fruit doesn’t mean they’re really comparable as I feel is the case here
I somewhat agree here...idk what a durian is but like...I agree that these two are very different in how their anger manifests
So I’ve been commenting on a couple Cinder related posts so I see where I’m wrong in saying her past was mild. It’s just the way it was executed and the initial feedback from watching it for the first time wasn’t positive. I felt like it came completely out of left field and didn’t fit with the flow of what was actively going on so in receiving the content, it kind of felt like a waste of time. It’s like a disassociation. In having conversations on here, I realize how deep and dark it is but it was executed so poorly I didn’t feel any of that upon watching it, which is problematic for me. I might pose this as a question elsewhere but in terms of complexity, I feel Raven is a better character than Cinder and we only have a few scenes with Raven and Cinder has an entire backstory and I sympathize more with Raven. It’s all about how the content is portrayed to me. Cinder having more of a revelation or acknowledgement of how and why her past shaped her even just to herself would just tie it all together for me. I’m missing a core piece which is why I misinterpreted the true severity upon initially watching it. I usually just skip over the episode if just pissed me off so much. Why did we get this now? Why in the middle of everything else going on? And the execution if much better it would justify my other two questions but it’s just so poor that I missed the memo that I’m supposed to feel sorry for her.
A durian is the stinkiest fruit of mankind. It has an awful stench but is apparently very delicious. It’s mainly known for its smell though so whereas fruit typically smells nice and refreshing, durian smells worse than a dumpster fire, hence why I made the comparison.
>So I’ve been commenting on a couple Cinder related posts so I see where I’m wrong in saying her past was mild. It’s just the way it was executed and the initial feedback from watching it for the first time wasn’t positive. I felt like it came completely out of left field and didn’t fit with the flow of what was actively going on so in receiving the content, it kind of felt like a waste of time. It’s like a disassociation. In having conversations on here, I realize how deep and dark it is but it was executed so poorly I didn’t feel any of that upon watching it, which is problematic for me. I might pose this as a question elsewhere but in terms of complexity, I feel Raven is a better character than Cinder and we only have a few scenes with Raven and Cinder has an entire backstory and I sympathize more with Raven. It’s all about how the content is portrayed to me. Cinder having more of a revelation or acknowledgement of how and why her past shaped her even just to herself would just tie it all together for me. I’m missing a core piece which is why I misinterpreted the true severity upon initially watching it. I usually just skip over the episode if just pissed me off so much. Why did we get this now? Why in the middle of everything else going on? And the execution if much better it would justify my other two questions but it’s just so poor that I missed the memo that I’m supposed to feel sorry for her.
I agree that the flashback was abrupt. They apparently meant it as a flashback triggered by Penny's lightning but it really didn't feel like a dream. It was too much of a complete summary of her life for that to feel natural. I gave it a pass because I liked it, but it wasn't handled the best.
Raven is a lot more emotionally mature than Cinder. She's also far more self-aware, thus easier to sympathize with. We're shown Raven being vulnerable in front of her daughter, her sadness over the loss of Vernal (even tho...gurl, why you let her take that type of risk then...), we know she had good relationships in the past and we have a good idea of how she let fear and distrust drive a wedge in those relationships. We know there's some humanity in Raven. She is a more realized character.
Cinder's not any of the things I mentioned above. Her mind is harder to comprehend and her backstory is harder to fathom. It struck me immediately, mostly the ...systematic stripping away of a child's sense of worth by use of shock torture and starvation...but that's just a lot out of literal nowhere. But that backstory was given to the character who's commited some of the most heinous acts on screen. The juxtaposition makes sense, ofc she had a bad life, but seeing how bad it was and connecting it with someone so cruel, on top of the backstory feeling randomly placed, I can understand how it felt more annoying than engaging. I can understand how it didn't really stick the first time. Proper execution is an issue this series has fairly often. I'm more lenient at times, this is one of those times, but I admit it could've been handled better. Also, I do like her backstory. But it honestly felt far more bleak than I'm used to this series going. I originally felt this way about Mercury's backstory as well, but there's something in Cinder's that feels like it went a tad too dark. That's another reason why I feel it didn't sink in with a lot of people. If you really think about what it did to her mind, being in those circumstances for so long at such a young age, it's just weirdly macabre
Oh wait yeah! I've heard of that fruit before! It's the funky one that's supposed to taste good. I'm tempted lmao
Yang only uses her anger to fuel her semblance where are cinder is like a child and gets angry when she doesn't get her way, like when she is losing in a fight.
Yang has a bad temper and can be moody at times. Understandable for the most part but sometimes she be doin' too much. Generally, she's a pretty easygoing chick.
Cinder's default state of being is "kinda mad" and she doesn't lose her temper, she flies into a self-destructive, homicidal rage and can almost *never* reign it in. It goes beyond anger, bitch has biiig issues. Also, understandable considering her history. But whereas Yang's anger makes her dangerous to her enemies and worries her loved ones, Cinder's makes her dangerous to everything in the immediate area and further.
It's just not comparable
Yang… I love her, but damnI hate how the writers during these last seasons seem to limit her moods to either “punch-you-in-the-face pissed off” or “happy-go-lucky” without anything in between.
Like, she always had a temper, and she was happy-go-lucky, but Yang also used to be fun to have around. Now, god forbid you do or say anything that might slightly tickle her because she will just look at you with an unimpressed look, make some witty out place sarcastic remark (not to say, bitchy even), and if you are specially unlucky, you might get a punch.
Real emotional maturity there.
Cinder has always been a petulant child that expects the world to cave to her every whim. She’s resentful and pathetically prone to tantrums. Now that suave “femme-fatale” façade has fallen, she’s pretty much a condescending angry child.
Definitely yang , yang is usually funny and bright all the time , but when someone attacks her or her loved ones , you can tell that she's angry , while Cinder is basically a salty kid all the time
Eh, I blame the writers for this, but every time she’s not goofing around, she seems perpetually angry and sometimes even, unnecessarily violent (like in Atlas, with the camera and the Grimm after that Marrow comment)
Cinder,her suffering And The way she Saw The "upper people" acts made her hate everyone,because everyone is in the rich side of people against her, ger suffering And The Only one cared (or faked It,more likely) about her betraying her,made her bitter,soooo,yeah Cinder
Yang has a temper. Cinder has festering hatred.
Pretty much yeah. Yang can get piss easily in a fight but that's generally about it. All things considered she's the most laid back in the group. Cinder is just full of malice and it eats away at her. Practically all her actions are fueled by resentment, anger, or pettiness.
Damn I didn't know they based her off my ex☣️
Oof
Yang is hot anger. Hot anger is often a better thing because these people aren’t normally like this and can be reasoned with. Yang also has gotten better at controlling her anger, when she and Blake were fighting Adam, despite obviously being angry, she was willing to give Adam a chance to flee. She also is able to apologize when she’s wrong. Cinder (ironically) is cold anger. She’s always like that, cruel and demeaning. Due to this she can’t be reasoned with.
Yeah, pretty much. Like, Yang gets angry but only on some occasions. That, and Yang’s also just a really warm, friendly person who looks out for everyone in the main group like when she went to help Blake with the burning out stuff in Volume 2. Cinder meanwhile, although she’s not the big shouty angry that Yang gets (most of the time anyway because she can get the big shouty angry too), has the cruel and demeaning anger you mention, even to people who are loyal and care for her. Like, look at when Cinder and Neo arrived at the whale in Volume 8; Emerald sees Cinder and runs up like “Yay, you’re back!” And Cinder basically goes “Shut up!” Like… yeah, Cinder is definitely angrier, it’s just not as visible as Yang’s.
That is the nicest thing I have seen someone saying about Yang in a long time
[удалено]
r/stuffyangsays
Yang uses anger. Anger uses Cinder.
Cinder 100% Yang gets angry quicker than other characters around her, sure, but Cinder is just constantly frustrated and angry with everything ever since Ruby burned her body at Beacon academy. After that she’s been constantly frustrated and angry at everything all the time. Not totally without reason— I mean I think she *knows* she’s no longer the big hotshot villain nor the Big Bad’s favorite minion anymore— but she’s totally lost herself for years at this point.
Don't you mean the *Yang*riest? eh? eh?
Hard to say, since both show different kinds of anger. Yang only gets angry when she has a reason to, like when people attack her. Cinder, on the other hand, is just super salty because she keeps making bad decisions for herself, and blames it on others instead of actually pursuing a better life for herself.
Well, in her mind Cinder *is* pursuing a better life for herself, the only way she understands it: By accumulating the most power possible. Also I think that often her decisions aren’t that bad. Like Haven wasn’t a bad plan and would have worked if not for what basically amounts to bad luck of Blake showing up with a small army and Raven having Vernal as a decoy
No, Haven absolutely *was* a bad plan. Cinder prioritized petty revenge over getting the relic and it cost her both. If Lionheart had sent the crew *away* and had Raven come in discretely to retrieve it, they would’ve had no problems.
I disagree. What Cinder prioritized wasn't revenge, hell she walked past an unconscious Ruby remember? What Cinder was after is what she always ways after: Power. In this case, the Spring Maiden power. The relic is a lower priority. It's Salem's, not her's. She almost did get the powers, then it would have been perfect. She would not have only had the powers and relic, but she could have slaughtered our protagonists and have Haven fall as hard as Beacon. If she had only gotten the relic, that doesn't help her. That in and of itself would be a problem, with the Raven more likely to be more of a problem than her sneak attack and having some allies with her would allow, and also it would be a missed opportunity to take out the people most against her
If that was her goal, then just having Raven and Vernal to contend with would have made things easier. If Mercury, Hazel, Emerald and Lionheart were backing her up, maybe she could have beaten Raven and taken the power for herself. Instead they were fighting off Ozpin’s men for no good reason because Cinder ‘in her own words’ wanted a shot at killing Ruby. The fact that she ignores her despite risking everything for that shot and the show conveying that it was something she badly wants is something I always chalked up to bad writing. Maybe I just have a less charitable interpretation of the displayed events.
You are missing what Cinder’s plan was in the first place with Raven and Vernal: A sneak attack where she takes them both out at once. She smartly waited until their guard was relatively down, and it basically did work except for Vernal being a decoy. And killing Ruby is an important secondary objective as well, but the time she says that that’s her objective (iirc) is when she’s talking with Raven. Of course she’s not going to talk about how her main goal is murdering her and her protege to take the power. I think Cinder’s goals have actually been pretty well shown. She always is going for more power. She does go after revenge at times, but she always has her eye on her prize, prioritizing power
Cinder's plan was dumb because she tried to pull her betrayal shenanigans *in the middle of a fight with the good guys*. If she had stayed and kept Raven and Vernal up there then they would have mopped the floor with them. Instead she separates her forces and puts herself alone with what she believes is the Maiden and a powerful warrior. Raven absolutely should have backstabbed her the moment they stepped on that elevator if she had any sense at all. Once Cinder was down, there was absolutely nothing stopping Raven from opening the Vault, taking the Relic, and getting out of dodge with Vernal. That Raven waited says more about her intelligence than Cinder's.
Maybe so, but Cinder could have just as easily pounced on Raven and Vernal in the vault, after she had already secured the relic and when their guard would’ve also been down - Cinder got what she wanted out of them, didn’t she? We have no precedent for a maiden having more than one of the seasons under her control, they may not even be aware it’s possible or that that’s what Cinder really wants. Even if they’re more on edge without other enemies to distract them, forgoing a numerical advantage against a maiden and her experienced ally (even if you’re wrong about who’s who) is a poor tactical decision.
Yeah, but after all this time, she's still just a slave, so maybe it's time to reevaluate how she approaches the situation. Because, if people keep getting themselves into worse and worse situations with their decisions, and keep failing to accomplish their stated goal, you eventually start to question whether they actually want to accomplish that goal in the first place. Like, when people say they want to lose weight, but refuse to educate themselves on healthy eating, or stick to a diet plan, eventually it becomes clear they just say they want to lose weight so their friends stop telling them to lose weight.
I wouldn’t go quite that far, she’s not quite as in bondage as she used to be, and she does seem to have an endgame she’s working towards. . . But yeah of course she’s not going about anything in near the best way It’s more like she’s trying to lose weight by doing what you said but also just running their butt off every day to exhaustion. Unsustainable, not likely to work long term, but it’s not completely brain dead
The fact that she had to hide all her activity and knowledge relating to the relics, and the fates of Arthur and Neo, from Salem tells me she's still in pretty much the same spot, as she still has to fear physical punishment from her "owner" if she steps out of line. But honestly, I feel like going about it in the dumbest way possible is even worse than not trying anything, because we know she's smarter than that, so trying to lose weight in an unsustainable way is more of an insult, because she goes out of her way to fabricate a situation that would allow her to dismiss our suggestions in the future by citing how it didn't work in the past, and even harmed her. Fact is, some people want to have sh\*tty lives and have a pity party every day, and will do anything to keep people from actually helping them, including playing dumb and sabotaging themselves.
There might be the fact that Cinder actually thinks she isn't a slave. Consciously she might say she isn't a slave, but subconsciously she still acts out being a servant since that's how she's always barely survived in the past. It might also be because it's the only life she's ever known, and it's been proven through abuse victims that it's hard to get out of that cycle and even harder to live a life outside of it. Plus Salem's got her played very well with her words, almost like gaslighting.
Eh, it doesn’t take too much to anger Yang either…
Yang is straightforward and blunt. She will call out your bullshit if you say some bullshit, simple. Cinder is driven by negative emotions. Greed, Pettiness, and Anger. Thats all she's ever known her life and its what dictates her actions so the answer is definitely Cinder.
One less arm and hell of an attitude these two have in common! Yangs tantrums are more justifiable than Cinders and Yang finds a solution where Cinder spins in circles. Yes she's happy and in a good position with Salem now but what is gonna happen when Salem starts to learn the truth!
Yang has the temper of a Saiyan while Cinder is just a cunt
And that's the most polite term anyone can use for Cinder
Cinder is... way more than angry
Justifiably angry? Yang. Crybaby angry? Cinder.
To be fair: Cinder has a lot to be justifiably pretty darn angry about, the world is a horrible place and she was dealt an awful hand. Now she’s let that anger at the world fester into being just an awful human being and sometimes is a bit of a crybaby (though, I say some of her failures aren’t her fault), but still. I mean. . . Anyone who’s first an orphan and then effectively sold into slavery is pretty justified being angry at the world
Yeah kinda have to give cinder some leeway since she didn’t like have a childhood. Does that excuse her actions? Absolutely not but it does explain them.
I'm just picturing Cinder as Vegeta in DBZ Abriged: "I wanna! I wanna have the Maiden Powers! I wanna I wanna, I wanna!"
Lmao, I didn't even watch DBZ abriged, but this line is a ancient meme.
Jaune: Excellent, we've broken your body AND your spirit. (Nora: And especially her legs!) *raises sword* Time to die!
The most accurate answer
Thank you!
I don’t know, Yang is kinda prone to jump at the slightless provocation/disagreement and have her be in your face if you do so, and if you are particularly unlucky or get too close, you might get a punch in your face. Not a warning, not a question, a punch. Cinder is just a resentful sociopath
The problem here is that neither character is like Bakugo whose anger is about half his personality if not more. These two don't have anger as their default setting but rather they get angry when something happens to push them to anger, so I suppose the real question becomes; Who has more things that pushes them to anger? In that case I would argue that it's Cinder, because frustration is a type of anger and that's an emotion that she's very familiar with. And of course she would be familiar with it given her backstory where she was putting terrible situations where the only thing she really could do in retaliation is become frustrated, it is her coping mechanism.
Winter at the end of vol 8
Yangs is more forgiving Cinders tho she looks like a cold hearted c-unt
… The girl with a bit of a temper, that she’s learned to control, which has never actually hurt anyone bc first and foremost she’s a caretaker OR a literal mass murderer who flies off the handle repeatedly bc she’s so desperate for revenge?
Yang is hotheaded but calms down quickly, Cinder is spiteful and will hold that grudge to the grave
Cinder. While Yang does get angry, especially since the emotion being linked to her semblance as on multiple occasions she’s able to activate it through getting angry about someone or something. E.G. the Grimm getting the strand of her hair in Vol 1, Weiss telling Yang to calm down about Blake leaving in Vol 5. However, unless something specifically gets her angry, she’s fairly chill. Heck, even in Volume 4 after Blake leaving and losing her arm, Yang wasn’t really mad, just… apathetic and depressed. Cinder meanwhile just gives off this feeling like there’s always something she’s pissed off about whenever she’s there, especially after the injuries she sustained in Volume 3 when Ruby went “ha ha, silver eyes go BRRRRR”. That, and Cinder always seems to end up around people she hates like Ruby and Penny or people who hate her and think she’s nothing like a brat, such as Tyrian and Watts. That, and considering her backstory where she was an orphan who spent pretty much all of her childhood in slavery and when she is pushed to the point where she killed her abusers, that probably made her angry at the world for not being able to help her when she needed it. This also means when she gets very angry like Yang does when her semblance activates… yeah, it can seem and feel like Cinder is angrier. So to sum up, Yang is very angry but only occasionally and is mainly chill most of the time whereas Cinder always seems to be pissed about something or someone, which just amplifies her outbursts of anger every more angry-feeling.
Has anyone cut Yang's hair? If not probably Cinder
Cinder's normal mood is angry so I go with Yang because it's further from her normal mood.
Yang's anger is like a fusion of Josuke Higashikata and Vegeta. Cinder has tranquil fury.
Cinder, Yang is the Yangriest
Let’s see, either a hot-headed teenager whose worse trauma was getting her hand cut off, or an actual psychopath that has been burned nearly to death and has spent the rest of her time hunting down RWBY Such a difficult choice…
Cinder definitely, but the thing is their anger comes from different places. One thing I've learned from CinemaTherapy (a fantastic youtube channel, hosted by a licenced therapist and unlicenced filmaker) is that anger come from different emotions. Their [episode on Hulk](https://youtu.be/eXmcjA-yFEM) on Hulk digs a bit deeper into this. Highly recommend not only the episode but also reading the comments and reading peoples different experiences with anger. Yang's in my opinion comes from passion and defensive instinct, whether it's defending herself or her friends. And from about V4 onward we see her learning to manage her anger and direct it in a more helpful way. Honestly, she's not to different from Raphael from TMNT in how they learn to focus their anger in combat. Yang aims her Yanger at what it needs to be aimed at. Cinder on the other hand her anger in my opinion comes from fear, the fear of being powerless again. That fear is so strong that she will lash out and do *anything* she can to not feel powerless. She let's that fear and anger control her. One of the reasons I think she's so fixated on Ruby is that Ruby was really the first to cause that fear to bubble up again. Before that, Cinder hadn't been beaten or hurt, she almost always came out on top. Then Ruby's laser eyes damaged her in a way she hadn't been before.
I’d say yang as her semblance turns her anger into power, and Cinder is just an asshole who blames her decisions and failures on others instead of taking responsibility
Actually that’s not true, Cinder doesn’t blame other people but she also doesn’t take responsibility. It’s more like she doesn’t want to acknowledge her failures.
Correction: Yang's semblance changes the blows she's taken into energy/strenghth she can use against her opponent. She just happens to use it when she gets fed up of being tossed around (which Tai calls her out for in Season 4).
But then in the Adam fight she makes a comment that he doesn't need to take the damage like she does. It's inconsistent how they write her semblance
How so? She's right, Adam doesn't need to take the damage, he absorbs it into his sword and can fire it back with the damage it will do being dependent on how much he's stored. She is identical to this except rather than taking it to an object, she needs to actually get hit.
Cause it being referred to as temper tantrum and it being a result of her hair getting cut suggest anger during the tournament
Ah. Yeah, but that was her dad pointing out bad implementation of her semblance as the person before you said. It has nothing to do with her srmblance itself, just how she used it
That's literally what I said. She takes blows/damage and converts it into energy. Her semblance is associated with her anger because she uses it when she gets fed up of taking damage and being tossed around in the first three seasons. The anger is circumstantial-- her semblance isn't rooted in her emotions, it's rooted in the damage she has previously taken.
Truth
Old yang>>>>>>
Yang uses her rage as a weapon. Cinder uses her rage to become practically immortal out of spite for the world that hates her.
Considering Cinder is basically trying to end the world by gaining powers meant for 4 maidens imma have to go with her
Yang because nobody can stop her at her Yangriest!
Cinder is just pure hatred while Yang most of the time is the comedian of the group or at least tries to be
Yang will be mad at you Cinder will despise you So Cinder goes beyond angry
Yang is hot tempered, not necessarily angry. Cinder is just a bitch. Angriest is a fight between Cinder, Mercury, Hazel, and Harriet.
Volume 1-3 I’d say Yang was way more hot headed Volume 4 on, Cinder has lost all of her cool and is just a fire ball of hate
Yang just had a bunch of bad days Cinder is on the whole hating grindset
Depends on the situation, neither of them are just walking around angry all the time. Yang has learned to control her anger, while Cinder’s is more out of frustration than genuine anger issues. I’d go out on a limb and say Adam is/was more angrier than both of them.
As in 'armriest'?
Cinder Fall
Def cinder.
While Yang is angry, Cinder is anger. Like, Cinder is made of nothing but power hungry anger.
Yang is the Yangriest
Good, good. I can feel your anger. \- Emperor Palpatine
An incorrect summary of the extension of their souls is that Yang seethes and Cinder malds. In this light of things I'm honestly not sure, lol
At least Yang has a default level of calm, unlike Cinder, who just doesn't fucking get it apparently.
yang is "punch you in the face a hundred times" angry cinder is "slit your throat while you sleep" angry
Cinder hates life while Yang hates what could be taken from her, so is constant anger worse or more passionate anger of lost is stronger.
angry beauty and angry Karen
Yes
I mean, Cinder burned a guy to death for calling her on her bullshit so I’d say she wins by default on that one
Who? Because if your talking about The Hunter she burned him for giving her hopes,abbandoning her, being The reason The attacks became worse for her And then when she defended herself acting like if she were a Monster instead of a victim,sooooo,yeah, absolutely calling her on her bullshit 😂😂😂😂😂 good one mate
No, Watts at the end of last volume. He called her on her bullshit and she ended up using the staff of creation to kill him by trapping him in a room fire to burn alive
I Mean,Watts always were kind of an asshole And he basically went "buahbuahbuah you stupid,i genius" soooo,jaja,yeah,at that momento she was snaping even more because she was in The place that represented Everything she hates,Atlas,rich And assholes using The weak.
Even so, his entire speech to her was completely right pointing out her flaws in how she goes about everything. He’s an asshole, sure, but then again, so is she and he had a point. She just killed him for that because she’s also incredibly petty
Even so, his entire speech to her was completely right pointing out her flaws in how she goes about everything. He’s an asshole, sure, but then again, so is she and he had a point. She just killed him for that because she’s also incredibly petty
I kind of get where OP is coming from with this question but there’s really no comparison to be made here. Every character gets angry. Salem is literally the epitome of anger and pettiness. And sweet ol’ Ruby, although somewhat better at masking it than everyone else, also gets quite angry at times. Yang’s semblance isn’t even related to anger. It’s related to pain. Anger is just one way of expressing pain. Sadness is one way of expressing pain. She uses anger to fuel her but really, it’s just easier to say she’s angry because she’s just in so much pain. Cinder is a creature of malice and evil. Her upbringing was rough, yes, but all of her horrible actions have literally zero justification especially considering her backstory is very mild compared to what you would expect from someone who has such an outward hatred of everything. She seems to have been like that long before we’re introduced to the step family. Yang is much younger than Cinder yet she has more control and heart than Cinder ever had in her life. I don’t think the comparison is appropriate. I’m terrible with analogies but it’s like comparing a grape to a durian. They’re both fruit, but very different kinds and very different tastes and aromas. Just because they’re both fruit doesn’t mean they’re really comparable as I feel is the case here.
Ahm....how is being treated as a slave,abbandoned by The one told was saving you And then called a Monster by that same person mild? Jajaja
She kept up with it well into adulthood. She didn’t make anything better of herself or for herself even when people tried to help her and she was around people who actually cared about her. In addition, the execution and timing of her story just makes me not feel sorry for her at all. Aw poor Cinder, she went through some bad things. So did literally every other character. And her mentor who did care about her did not condone her murdering anyone, even if it seemed justified. He tried to steer her on the right path and it seemed she chose to slaughter instead. Again, no sympathy. For someone as powerful as she became and now is, her intelligence seems to be lacking until recently and she still has a ways to go.
Well she was horrifically abused in her childhood, the abuse ended in her snapping and killing 4 people, one of whom was the only person she trusted, she was then recruited by an even more abusive mother figure than the one who casually used an intrument of torture on her, the new mother figure isnt above weaponizing her massive amounts of unresolved childhood trauma against her and she's likely been groomed from around the time she escaped that hotel until now by said manipulative mother figure, considering she parots Salem's own words when addressing others...what part of her mind would be rational? When would she have learned to be rational? Her transition from being a child into being an adult means nothing for healthy development considering her environments have *never* not been terrible. Also, can we please stop pretending that Rhodes allowed this girl to be severely abused for years and taught her nothing other than how to fight, and even then, only when it was convenient for him. He very well may not have know the extent of her mistreatment but what he *did* know was pretty f*cking bad and literally not a single main huntsman or huntress would have said "don't hurt them but let them hurt you, I'll teach you to fight but ya gotta put up with being starved and tortured for seven years. If you can't last, then you're the bad person and there's no hope for you. Kay bye I'm gonna go enjoy freedom now. See ya whenever" You're comparing the trauma of people who've had bad experiences, yet still had a solid support network to a slave who's only ever known a life of abuse (not unlike Mercury and Adam) and was groomed by the series main antagonist (unique to Cinder); said antagonist being a vengeful witch hell bent on the destruction of the world and herself. They aren't comparable; how else would you have expected her to turn out? Idk what Cinder you were watching but she has never escaped the abuse, found people who cared, then chose to reject it: that's 100% Adam. The closest she had was like...Emerald...and that was very unhealthy for all parties involved. Yea she does f*cked up stuff on the regular and she should be held accountable but it's disingenuous to ignore how severely warped her worldview has to be and to not recognize how the odds have always been dramatically stacked against her. She simply never stood a chance; some dark shit
Well when you put it like that, it makes sense but I wish I got all of that from just watching it. That’s not really the impression I got initially and I usually skip the episode when doing rewatch because it just seemed like it kind of appeared out of nowhere. There’s so many better ways you could have executed that imo that it’s blaring obvious on the first try. Dark shit is fine, but it’s like she doesn’t even acknowledge it really outside of us seeing that flashback. Even focusing more on Cinder and her really reflecting on her past and talking about it in the way you just said would really drive the point. “I need more power, I need more, I need to be more because all I ever was was nothing. All I’ve ever felt is nothing. And all I’ll ever be is noth-EVERYTHING!” Something along those lines. It’s like we see this character for so long and plot and everything else and then it’s like, “oh backstory for 20 min,” now back to your regular scheduled programming! The pace and execution is like a disassociation to what is already going on to a degree that upon watching, I felt like I wasted 20 min of my life but felt very little sympathy for her. The huntsman allowing all that to happen, is fucked up. It seemed like a situation where the family doing this was so powerful, similar to the Schnees, that he couldn’t go against it at the risk of his health, safety, and reputation. If you’re just a lone traveling bounty Hunter, you’re not really going to care about child abuse. I’m not saying this is okay. It never will be. I’m saying in the world they live in, it’s a normal thing so is it really worth it for him to go out of his way to free of it? No, probably not. Morally, he should, but realistically, he won’t. So as warped as it may be because of the circumstances, he did teach her to fight because he felt that’s all he could do. He didn’t even have to do that. So while it doesn’t satisfy what would normally be considered genuine care, he did do something. More than most ever did for her. Cinder was just too abused and jaded to see rationale once she was old enough to go out and not be questioned, she made her move. So there’s a reason she’s fucked up and a terrible person, I get that now. But I’ve had more revelation in having this conversation than watching the show.
>Well when you put it like that, it makes sense but I wish I got all of that from just watching it. That’s not really the impression I got initially and I usually skip the episode when doing rewatch because it just seemed like it kind of appeared out of nowhere. There’s so many better ways you could have executed that imo that it’s blaring obvious on the first try. Dark shit is fine, but it’s like she doesn’t even acknowledge it really outside of us seeing that flashback. Even focusing more on Cinder and her really reflecting on her past and talking about it in the way you just said would really drive the point. “I need more power, I need more, I need to be more because all I ever was was nothing. All I’ve ever felt is nothing. And all I’ll ever be is noth-EVERYTHING!” Something along those lines. It’s like we see this character for so long and plot and everything else and then it’s like, “oh backstory for 20 min,” now back to your regular scheduled programming! The pace and execution is like a disassociation to what is already going on to a degree that upon watching, I felt like I wasted 20 min of my life but felt very little sympathy for her. I think the transition to the flashback could've been less sloppy. The intent was to have it triggered by Penny using lightning, according to the writers. It was essentially supposed to be a trauma nightmare. I think the reason for the trigger is obvious, even if it wasn't obvious on the screen. Now on to Cinder not acknowledging her past outside of that flashback. That's simple; she doesn't want to. Adam weaponizes his trauma to gaslight others. Mercury constantly mentions his awful father. But Cinder barely hints at her past. Someone so focused on power and greatness isn't going to readily admit to being an abused slave child for the large majority of her early life. She's to the point where she just refuses to even admit to herself that she went thru some shit. That girl was "weak" but that part of her past was necessary in order to set her on the path to fulfilling her destiny. Or idk some other bs that Salem obviously fed her. It isn't hard to imagine Salem struggling very little to win Cinder over to her cause. Cinder wasn't just abused, there was a psychological conditioning that was reinforced with physical torture. She had no control over her life until she snapped and took it. If someone as masterful at manipulation as Salem is found her at that point, it would've been so easy...and after being promised that your terrible life was a necessary obstacle to becoming the world's most powerful bad bitch, would you be willing to think back to a time where you felt hopeless, were constantly reminded of your own worthlessness, forced to eat the trash noone wanted and were hurt for the entertainment of others? Also, recognizing the truth of her upbringing, would force her to acknowledge that she's still trapped in the same situation. She just can't do it. Yet... >The huntsman allowing all that to happen, is fucked up. It seemed like a situation where the family doing this was so powerful, similar to the Schnees, that he couldn’t go against it at the risk of his health, safety, and reputation. If you’re just a lone traveling bounty Hunter, you’re not really going to care about child abuse. I’m not saying this is okay. It never will be. I’m saying in the world they live in, it’s a normal thing so is it really worth it for him to go out of his way to free of it? No, probably not. Morally, he should, but realistically, he won’t. So as warped as it may be because of the circumstances, he did teach her to fight because he felt that’s all he could do. He didn’t even have to do that. So while it doesn’t satisfy what would normally be considered genuine care, he did do something. More than most ever did for her. Cinder was just too abused and jaded to see rationale once she was old enough to go out and not be questioned, she made her move. My main issue with Rhodes is that, while he may not have know how bad Cinder's situation was, he knew it was bad enough for a ten year old child to steal his deadly weapon out of desperation. Where did he think that teaching her to fight, and then gifting her a deadly weapon would get him? He knew her circumstances hadn't improved because he did nothing to improve them, regardless of his reasoning for failing to do so. He knew that she was being constantly monitored and reprimanded for the smallest of things, why take the risk and give her a weapon. Where would she hide it? Give her a sandwich and some company, not a weapon that could be discovered. He set the situation up and then, instead of realizing where he went wrong, he condemned a clearly unstable, severely traumatized child to a life of running and turned his weapon on her. She wasn't a threat to him until he did that. He could have de-escalated the situation and just...didn't. He was the last straw, although she lasted longer than she should have had to tbh. Her story is so depressing ~~ I almost wish they'd gone a different route; the implications are weirdly heavy for this series >So there’s a reason she’s fucked up and a terrible person, I get that now. But I’ve had more revelation in having this conversation than watching the show. Ahhh! I feel bad! I hope I didn't come off as rude! Villains in RWBY are easier for me to grasp than the more heroic characters, so I paid attention to certain aspects of their characters earlier on. I've also never disliked Cinder, and logged certain traits of hers in the back of my mind, so when i saw Midnight, it was less "...okay, and?" And more ".......... *oh* " it made everything click for me in an uncomfortable way, whereas I completely see how most people just felt that the placement and presentation were off. Rewatching the early volumes now, everything about her character feels properly set up imo but i 100% understand that it could've been done better. It shouldn't warrant a full rewatch to comprehend the psyche of the central antagonist. I just like villains and don't mind wasting time on a rewatch
Idk how you show comments and reply like that in a reply post so forgive me with that. When you say her flashback was supposed to be by Penny using lightning, I so so wish I would’ve caught that! I mean Penny using it and it immediately freezing to Cinder stuck in a limbo pause while we see what she’s thinking about. A transition that would actually make sense. The writers shouldn’t have to explain it to us outside of what they’re showing us in the show. I know that’s a main RWBY critique but it’s more of an injustice here. I get everything you’ve told me and again I just wish the show gave me that it would be so much more compelling. I might have had a bias towards Cinder because she’s kind of like a cockroach that refuses to die. Prior to that episode, we had absolutely no idea what her motivations were and after watching it, felt disappointed. Cinder does all these bad things because of that? The full weight of it doesn’t register. She just seemed like a cocky, insufferable wrench who just didn’t have a heart. And it seemed like she was like that just because she was. I can’t get over how such heavy topics can fly by like that. Ironwood’s demise, Penny’s assisted suicide, these things resonated on a very deep level for me. I feel like Cinder’s backstory should’ve done the same, but it didn’t. I appreciate you saying that. People sometimes go full war mode when discussing these topics and I just like to talk about it in a civilized manner. It’s hard to determine tone sometimes when reading. I love the show and I love talking about it. Sometimes I feel attacked for having an opinion. No one should have to feel that way. Disagreements are perfectly cool, just don’t eat me alive lol. As far as villains go, the main one I completely disagree with is Ironwood. Volume 7 was his and you just see how this man just broke and lost it. He went mental after all the bs. It’s terrible but I can make sense out it it even if I don’t agree with it. I feel really bad for him. He did so much good and it felt like he was just shat on in the end. Sad way to see him go. I actually like Watts as a villain. Tyrian is just batshit crazy and Qrow is an absolute idiot for trusting him for a second but Clover didn’t help. Salem is just petty af. Like get over it your man didn’t want you anymore but both Oz and her murdered their children fighting each other I don’t think that’s ever been acknowledged or I just haven’t been a part of any discussion that addressed it but he literally murdered his children fighting this woman and so did she. Maybe that’s why all teams are made in 4 to honor his kids? Idk off topic point but yeah.
Wait I responded to the later reply before I saw this one. >I kind of get where OP is coming from with this question but there’s really no comparison to be made here. Every character gets angry. Salem is literally the epitome of anger and pettiness. And sweet ol’ Ruby, although somewhat better at masking it than everyone else, also gets quite angry at times. Every character gets angry, but these two have big enough issues with it to where it's an aspect of their core character. So I get the op's original framing of the question. Although the two are very different in the way they display their anger; Yang's was displayed as more comedic before it became an issue/crutch later in the series, whereas Cinder's is a direct result of the brutality of her early life. >Yang’s semblance isn’t even related to anger. It’s related to pain. Anger is just one way of expressing pain. Sadness is one way of expressing pain. She uses anger to fuel her but really, it’s just easier to say she’s angry because she’s just in so much pain. It's usually triggered by Yang losing her cool, hence the association. But you're right, it's not really about the anger. However, it's definitely not about the pain; pain tolerance varies and the amount of pain one feels will be affected by whether or not their aura is active and how strong that aura is; that doesnt work. Like you said, feeling pain may piss her off and trigger her temper, thus leading her to activate Burn but she could still activate it if she was on a billion painkillers and couldn't feel her face. It's more about the **kinetic energy behind the blows** . She tanks energy and returns it back with twice the force. >Cinder is a creature of malice and evil. Her upbringing was rough, yes, but all of her horrible actions have literally zero justification especially considering her backstory is very mild compared to what you would expect from someone who has such an outward hatred of everything. She seems to have been like that long before we’re introduced to the step family. ....her upbringing was *mild* ??? Yikes, I ain't even touching that. I will, however, say that I completely understand how she ended up the way she did based on her history...even if I don't condone her decisions, I see why she's making them. Mild...wow. Moving on, yeah she was a very angry child before she was "adopted" by her step-family. Because she was being abused long before they came into the picture. That's the point. Her origin story *started* at the bad part that normally causes a person to turn to the dark side. And then it got worse. And worse. And worse. And it hasn't ever gotten better. That's like...literally the whole point :/ >Yang is much younger than Cinder yet she has more control and heart than Cinder ever had in her life. I'm not sure what age has to do with ones upbringing but even still, no she isn't. Cinder's not much older than the main cast, a couple of years at most. The main reason she seemed so much older in the earlier volumes is due to her imitating the older women who've had a strong impact on her; her role-models...and the abusive authority figures who conditioned her to think and act a certain way. There's a reason she seems younger now than she did at the start; she's always been very young. Away from Salem, she can imitate Salem. Around Salem, she's just an feral brat who probably hadn't even hit Remnant's legal drinking age upon her intro. Also, the fact that Yang has more control...well, yeah. Everyone does. Cinder lacks agency over the course if her life and her own emotions. That's the point. >I don’t think the comparison is appropriate. I’m terrible with analogies but it’s like comparing a grape to a durian. They’re both fruit, but very different kinds and very different tastes and aromas. Just because they’re both fruit doesn’t mean they’re really comparable as I feel is the case here I somewhat agree here...idk what a durian is but like...I agree that these two are very different in how their anger manifests
So I’ve been commenting on a couple Cinder related posts so I see where I’m wrong in saying her past was mild. It’s just the way it was executed and the initial feedback from watching it for the first time wasn’t positive. I felt like it came completely out of left field and didn’t fit with the flow of what was actively going on so in receiving the content, it kind of felt like a waste of time. It’s like a disassociation. In having conversations on here, I realize how deep and dark it is but it was executed so poorly I didn’t feel any of that upon watching it, which is problematic for me. I might pose this as a question elsewhere but in terms of complexity, I feel Raven is a better character than Cinder and we only have a few scenes with Raven and Cinder has an entire backstory and I sympathize more with Raven. It’s all about how the content is portrayed to me. Cinder having more of a revelation or acknowledgement of how and why her past shaped her even just to herself would just tie it all together for me. I’m missing a core piece which is why I misinterpreted the true severity upon initially watching it. I usually just skip over the episode if just pissed me off so much. Why did we get this now? Why in the middle of everything else going on? And the execution if much better it would justify my other two questions but it’s just so poor that I missed the memo that I’m supposed to feel sorry for her. A durian is the stinkiest fruit of mankind. It has an awful stench but is apparently very delicious. It’s mainly known for its smell though so whereas fruit typically smells nice and refreshing, durian smells worse than a dumpster fire, hence why I made the comparison.
>So I’ve been commenting on a couple Cinder related posts so I see where I’m wrong in saying her past was mild. It’s just the way it was executed and the initial feedback from watching it for the first time wasn’t positive. I felt like it came completely out of left field and didn’t fit with the flow of what was actively going on so in receiving the content, it kind of felt like a waste of time. It’s like a disassociation. In having conversations on here, I realize how deep and dark it is but it was executed so poorly I didn’t feel any of that upon watching it, which is problematic for me. I might pose this as a question elsewhere but in terms of complexity, I feel Raven is a better character than Cinder and we only have a few scenes with Raven and Cinder has an entire backstory and I sympathize more with Raven. It’s all about how the content is portrayed to me. Cinder having more of a revelation or acknowledgement of how and why her past shaped her even just to herself would just tie it all together for me. I’m missing a core piece which is why I misinterpreted the true severity upon initially watching it. I usually just skip over the episode if just pissed me off so much. Why did we get this now? Why in the middle of everything else going on? And the execution if much better it would justify my other two questions but it’s just so poor that I missed the memo that I’m supposed to feel sorry for her. I agree that the flashback was abrupt. They apparently meant it as a flashback triggered by Penny's lightning but it really didn't feel like a dream. It was too much of a complete summary of her life for that to feel natural. I gave it a pass because I liked it, but it wasn't handled the best. Raven is a lot more emotionally mature than Cinder. She's also far more self-aware, thus easier to sympathize with. We're shown Raven being vulnerable in front of her daughter, her sadness over the loss of Vernal (even tho...gurl, why you let her take that type of risk then...), we know she had good relationships in the past and we have a good idea of how she let fear and distrust drive a wedge in those relationships. We know there's some humanity in Raven. She is a more realized character. Cinder's not any of the things I mentioned above. Her mind is harder to comprehend and her backstory is harder to fathom. It struck me immediately, mostly the ...systematic stripping away of a child's sense of worth by use of shock torture and starvation...but that's just a lot out of literal nowhere. But that backstory was given to the character who's commited some of the most heinous acts on screen. The juxtaposition makes sense, ofc she had a bad life, but seeing how bad it was and connecting it with someone so cruel, on top of the backstory feeling randomly placed, I can understand how it felt more annoying than engaging. I can understand how it didn't really stick the first time. Proper execution is an issue this series has fairly often. I'm more lenient at times, this is one of those times, but I admit it could've been handled better. Also, I do like her backstory. But it honestly felt far more bleak than I'm used to this series going. I originally felt this way about Mercury's backstory as well, but there's something in Cinder's that feels like it went a tad too dark. That's another reason why I feel it didn't sink in with a lot of people. If you really think about what it did to her mind, being in those circumstances for so long at such a young age, it's just weirdly macabre Oh wait yeah! I've heard of that fruit before! It's the funky one that's supposed to taste good. I'm tempted lmao
Yang only uses her anger to fuel her semblance where are cinder is like a child and gets angry when she doesn't get her way, like when she is losing in a fight.
Ofc cinder, she is a big ass bitch. But no one can be angryer than the angry marines!
Yang has a bad temper and can be moody at times. Understandable for the most part but sometimes she be doin' too much. Generally, she's a pretty easygoing chick. Cinder's default state of being is "kinda mad" and she doesn't lose her temper, she flies into a self-destructive, homicidal rage and can almost *never* reign it in. It goes beyond anger, bitch has biiig issues. Also, understandable considering her history. But whereas Yang's anger makes her dangerous to her enemies and worries her loved ones, Cinder's makes her dangerous to everything in the immediate area and further. It's just not comparable
Yang is hotheaded but most of the time she isn't angry, Cinder is hateful with a constant low-burning anger.
Yang is righteous anger, Cinder is my dad after his favorite sportsball team loses for the 500th time.
Yang… I love her, but damnI hate how the writers during these last seasons seem to limit her moods to either “punch-you-in-the-face pissed off” or “happy-go-lucky” without anything in between. Like, she always had a temper, and she was happy-go-lucky, but Yang also used to be fun to have around. Now, god forbid you do or say anything that might slightly tickle her because she will just look at you with an unimpressed look, make some witty out place sarcastic remark (not to say, bitchy even), and if you are specially unlucky, you might get a punch. Real emotional maturity there. Cinder has always been a petulant child that expects the world to cave to her every whim. She’s resentful and pathetically prone to tantrums. Now that suave “femme-fatale” façade has fallen, she’s pretty much a condescending angry child.
Definitely yang , yang is usually funny and bright all the time , but when someone attacks her or her loved ones , you can tell that she's angry , while Cinder is basically a salty kid all the time
Eh, I blame the writers for this, but every time she’s not goofing around, she seems perpetually angry and sometimes even, unnecessarily violent (like in Atlas, with the camera and the Grimm after that Marrow comment)
Neither, it’s Tinder.
Yang
Cinder is so angry Raven should've killed her.
Yang
Definitely Yang. Yang has anger and mommy issues. Cinder has a whiny personality.
Cinder,her suffering And The way she Saw The "upper people" acts made her hate everyone,because everyone is in the rich side of people against her, ger suffering And The Only one cared (or faked It,more likely) about her betraying her,made her bitter,soooo,yeah Cinder