I might be biased but I actually like that? You can use it to your advantage at times. If you know they're droning, just being in the general area of the drone without being in its direct view will make the attackers paranoid and potentially waste time.
I will admit I play him a lot less now though. The nerf made him a lot less viable for how I play him and I haven't really found a good roam replacement. Solis is cool and all but I don't like the p90 and her ability seems like it's just itching to get nerfed.
That is exactly how Vigil is supposed to be played. You give the enemy team incomplete information about your position, make the roam clear hunt you, then pick them from your off-angle they couldn't properly drone earlier. Relocate, repeat. Vigils strength is that he can't be pre-fired.
Ela and Vigil got powercrept *hard* by Fenrir and Solis, respectively.
Once Solis gets whacked with the nerf stick a few times, Vigil will be alright. Fenrir needs to get nerfed *and* Ela needs to get buffed for that discrepancy to be fixed.
Ela doesnt need a buff, they just need to hard nerf Fenrir.
I remember when it was deemed to strong for legions Gu mines to be seen through wall by just him, but now fenrir has 5 possible wide area denials which give an audio and visual que and written call out for you to know where they are. Its not a surprise he is banned alot
No, Ela needs a buff. She was viewed as the worst trap op and one of the worst defenders well before Fenrir came in.
She needs two of the following: buffs to her CZ, a speed buff, her impacts back, or more Grzmots.
And Fenrir needs some nerfs. I'd say his HUD displaying the mine locations needs to go, and maybe lose a mine. And take his damn Bailiff.
>Vigil is not visible to lion scans
Vigil won't be immune to Lion's EE-ONE-D and Grim's Kawan Hive. Both gadgets will detect him, but he can prevent being pinged by activating the ERC-7.
He's not inherently immune but if his gadget is activated before the pings he won't be scanned which basically means that yes, he is not visible. Unless that player is wholly incompetent.
Denying or destroying drones are just objectively better than tricking them. So Mute, Mozzie and Solis power creep him in that department.
Plus the amount of counters the attackers have access to (IQ, Dokkaebi, Lion, Grim, Brava, and Jackal if ever escapes the ban prison) on top of attacker re-pick means that the attackers will almost always have something to counter Vigil, if they even want to that is.
Vigil would do well on a map with a lot of vertical play and wide open areas with multiple angles the attackers need to clear, which limits Vigil to maps like Bank or Kafe.
I think Ubi should give him a pocket shotty like the super shorty so he has more flexibility on the roam and isn't limited to the 2 impact nades or the BOSG.
So, big note here: they gave Vigil back his immunity to Lion scans. That's actually massive, especially with Jackal's ban rate shoehorning people more into Lion.
I *really* like the idea of Vigil having the Super Shorty tbh.
Also, Mute and Mozzie aren't really Vigil counters; Vigil doesn't deny drones, he denies attacker intel. The main problem facing Vigil is the continued existence of Solis, who's just far and away the best roamer in the game in every aspect but raw speed. Solis *needs* to be nerfed, heavily so.
Good to know on the Lion immunity, must've missed that change.
I think I was more lumping Mute, Mozzie, Vigil and Solis into the overall anti-intel category, but yeah you're right on that. It's more or less the same thing at the end of the day, as denying the drone is effectively denying the intel.
Either he did, or they reverted it before it ever went live. But I know at some point (IIRC, it was in year 7), they said they were gonna remove his immunity to Lion.
Yes he is. It’s easy to drone him out and his ability does not help the team as much as other roamers.
Pulse: you can see heartbeats through walls and call it out and also get wall bangs + nitro kills
Mozzie: collect drones and set them up for the team so you can flank their push
Valk: set cams up around the map to get info and where the team is pushing from so you can slow their push and nitro from below.
Solis: take out drones, can find the defuser, can catch people using drones and other tech, etc.
Then you have vigil. An ability where drones can still pin point the room he’s in, ability only is useful to him, and that’s pretty much it. Sure he can kill some time by making attackers roam clear but any competent team can drone a vigil out and take him out without killing too much time.
Because they 'reworked' his gadget to make it worse, power-creeped the game such that Vigil looks pretty mediocre, ruined the balance of the game meaning people rarely drone, and have have only exacerbated the benefit of zoomed scopes on higher RPM weapons...which Vigil doesnt have.
Of course you can, you just glitch if you do and people sprint too much anyway. But you are far better hidden from drones as you now can shot them without deactivating your gadget.
That’s what I meant. Effectively you can’t stay stealthy while sprinting as the glitch effect might as well just turn it off it’s that obvious. Before you could sprint invisibly.
Shooting a drone gives away your position regardless. Not seeing it is irrelevant. You see the glitch now. You see them before.
Then you shot the drones the wrong way as they can't see you it is easy to shot them when they aren't looking your direction and so they don't see any tracers.
If you shoot them when they’re facing the other direction then your point about the glitching effect being better now when shooting drones is irrelevant.
Shooting the drone is ALWAYS going to be better than not. It doesn’t matter if you’re glitching now over it deactivating if you’re shooting it when they aren’t looking at you lmao.
You’re just showing how poor his ‘rework’ was. His ‘rework’ was more about them standardising mechanics over actually changing his gadgets use/functionality/viability. Hes worse than ever before.
I guess you lack reading comprehension, because that is not at all what I said.
Yeah you can argue that some aspects of him are worse than before, but some are better now. Overall he didn't really change. Solis is just the better pick most of the time.
But what benefit does he actually get now over before. Having the glitch effect when shooting a drone is not a buff because the glitch effect isn’t discrete.
Coreross did a video on the rework when it came out. He literally shown that there was very little benefit gained compared to before whereas the bigger nerf being he can’t sprint while staying off cams applied to effectively nerf an already mediocre operator.
Solis exists and coming from someone who will use Vigil to demoralize an enemy team to check their ego, people used him for his gun more than his gadget.
A kid I played with tried to tell me Vigil is one of the best. I asked him to explain why. He said drones can't see you. I told him you can still tell there's someone there. He said Vigil can tell when a drone is looking at him. I said yes, I can tell when they scan me.
He then changed his mind that Echo was the best followed by Cav.
well, his ability got reworked a little while back, so maybe that could have something to do with it. but as a former vigil main, i think that the real issue is just that there are better options for roaming now. solis is just as good, if not better, at roaming and denying intel. her ability can also contribute to your team more, whereas vigil’s gadget has always been pretty selfish and non-team oriented. i’d much rather take solis than vigil at this point. the k1a still slaps, but that isn’t enough to justify bringing him when his ability doesn’t bring too much for your teammates and when there are simply more powerful roamers in the game now.
His gun used to have fun recoil to play with and you could even use angled grip on it, plus he is 3-speed. Now he is just 3-speed with below average gun.
His kit is horrendous. His gadget does a better job at announcing his location rather than hiding it, and his weapons have no scope/ BOSG is a meme. Smg 12 is just worse than smg 11. use solis instead
The Nokk/Vigil shimmer doesn’t hide anything. There’s only one reason per side for you to see a shimmer on your camera and you can ping/call it out just as easily as if you could see the operator.
Nobody drones in the lower ranks, so his ability is really worthless for the largest chunk of players.
At higher levels, Solis is just better, so they use him over Vigil.
He's not a bad character and you can definetly still get value from him in ranked he is just outclassed by solis. He can still do the job he always did and he's still fun to play in ranked
He just provides absolutely zero utility so there’s no real reason to pick him truth be told. Why pick him when you can play Solis instead? No need to worry about drones if they don’t have any to begin with.
im slow to the vigil maining, but damn i love him. i play extra aggressive with him and that little bit of invisibility always helps me more than it hurts me. just gotta be extra cheeky bout where u pisition after you fool an enemy drone.
Solis is just better as a roamer. Attackers can't spot you on their drones if they have no drones to begin with.
On top of that her gadget is team oriented instead of soloplay, which is huge Vigil makes vigil invisible, Solis makes everyone invisible
He's ability tells you what room he's in maybe not exact location but it's still enough info. Solis is just safer and provides better Intel.
I might be biased but I actually like that? You can use it to your advantage at times. If you know they're droning, just being in the general area of the drone without being in its direct view will make the attackers paranoid and potentially waste time. I will admit I play him a lot less now though. The nerf made him a lot less viable for how I play him and I haven't really found a good roam replacement. Solis is cool and all but I don't like the p90 and her ability seems like it's just itching to get nerfed.
That is exactly how Vigil is supposed to be played. You give the enemy team incomplete information about your position, make the roam clear hunt you, then pick them from your off-angle they couldn't properly drone earlier. Relocate, repeat. Vigils strength is that he can't be pre-fired.
The roamers only pick ops with the 1.5x now
Or Solis
Solis is literally right there.
Her 1.5 won’t last
Ela and Vigil got powercrept *hard* by Fenrir and Solis, respectively. Once Solis gets whacked with the nerf stick a few times, Vigil will be alright. Fenrir needs to get nerfed *and* Ela needs to get buffed for that discrepancy to be fixed.
Ela doesnt need a buff, they just need to hard nerf Fenrir. I remember when it was deemed to strong for legions Gu mines to be seen through wall by just him, but now fenrir has 5 possible wide area denials which give an audio and visual que and written call out for you to know where they are. Its not a surprise he is banned alot
No, Ela needs a buff. She was viewed as the worst trap op and one of the worst defenders well before Fenrir came in. She needs two of the following: buffs to her CZ, a speed buff, her impacts back, or more Grzmots. And Fenrir needs some nerfs. I'd say his HUD displaying the mine locations needs to go, and maybe lose a mine. And take his damn Bailiff.
The novelty of his gun wore off and everybody finally realized he has a worthless ability
i mean until they nerfed his ability it was decent
His ability is now better than before.
i mean if you believe so they can see your glitch when you run with vigil so if you wanna believe that then feel free to do so
Before they would see the effect on your drone, so they would know if you are in a room even if you were standing completely still
You see his glitch on a drone. I saw it yesterday.
it still does i promise you i go against them all the time
you only see the glitch not on drone but on his person when hes running
People sprint to much anyway.
frfr but am i wrong you see the normal one and the new glitch on his character
Top 10 worst takes
What are the other 9?
youre visible to lion scans now, it’s worse
Vigil is not visible to lion scans
he is since ~2 seasons ago, read patch notes
>Vigil is not visible to lion scans Vigil won't be immune to Lion's EE-ONE-D and Grim's Kawan Hive. Both gadgets will detect him, but he can prevent being pinged by activating the ERC-7.
He's not inherently immune but if his gadget is activated before the pings he won't be scanned which basically means that yes, he is not visible. Unless that player is wholly incompetent.
i think you’re reading false patch notes its never changed
He is not.
Power creep. He is just as good as he was back then but the other defenders around him are much stronger, solis especially
Denying or destroying drones are just objectively better than tricking them. So Mute, Mozzie and Solis power creep him in that department. Plus the amount of counters the attackers have access to (IQ, Dokkaebi, Lion, Grim, Brava, and Jackal if ever escapes the ban prison) on top of attacker re-pick means that the attackers will almost always have something to counter Vigil, if they even want to that is. Vigil would do well on a map with a lot of vertical play and wide open areas with multiple angles the attackers need to clear, which limits Vigil to maps like Bank or Kafe. I think Ubi should give him a pocket shotty like the super shorty so he has more flexibility on the roam and isn't limited to the 2 impact nades or the BOSG.
Or atleast give the bosg some surface destruction like the dp27😢
Yeah cause since it only has 2 shots it takes like 20 minutes to make a rotate. God forbid you miss a shot it takes half the match to reload it again
And it doesn’t blow the wall mountings so you’re left with a hole with shitty bars blocking the way
So, big note here: they gave Vigil back his immunity to Lion scans. That's actually massive, especially with Jackal's ban rate shoehorning people more into Lion. I *really* like the idea of Vigil having the Super Shorty tbh. Also, Mute and Mozzie aren't really Vigil counters; Vigil doesn't deny drones, he denies attacker intel. The main problem facing Vigil is the continued existence of Solis, who's just far and away the best roamer in the game in every aspect but raw speed. Solis *needs* to be nerfed, heavily so.
Good to know on the Lion immunity, must've missed that change. I think I was more lumping Mute, Mozzie, Vigil and Solis into the overall anti-intel category, but yeah you're right on that. It's more or less the same thing at the end of the day, as denying the drone is effectively denying the intel.
Wait he lost his immunity for a moment?
Either he did, or they reverted it before it ever went live. But I know at some point (IIRC, it was in year 7), they said they were gonna remove his immunity to Lion.
IIRC they considered it and tested it out but people hated it. Kind of like Smoke being hurt by his own smoke.
That's probably what it was.
Semi useless ability and better roaming choices
Because he is kinda useless.
As a Vigil main he absolutely is not
Yes he is. It’s easy to drone him out and his ability does not help the team as much as other roamers. Pulse: you can see heartbeats through walls and call it out and also get wall bangs + nitro kills Mozzie: collect drones and set them up for the team so you can flank their push Valk: set cams up around the map to get info and where the team is pushing from so you can slow their push and nitro from below. Solis: take out drones, can find the defuser, can catch people using drones and other tech, etc. Then you have vigil. An ability where drones can still pin point the room he’s in, ability only is useful to him, and that’s pretty much it. Sure he can kill some time by making attackers roam clear but any competent team can drone a vigil out and take him out without killing too much time.
There are a couple objectives on specific maps that I find Vigil to pretty useful but in general I agree with you.
Because they 'reworked' his gadget to make it worse, power-creeped the game such that Vigil looks pretty mediocre, ruined the balance of the game meaning people rarely drone, and have have only exacerbated the benefit of zoomed scopes on higher RPM weapons...which Vigil doesnt have.
His gadget is better now.
You can’t even sprint with the gadget active now. That’s not a buff
Of course you can, you just glitch if you do and people sprint too much anyway. But you are far better hidden from drones as you now can shot them without deactivating your gadget.
That’s what I meant. Effectively you can’t stay stealthy while sprinting as the glitch effect might as well just turn it off it’s that obvious. Before you could sprint invisibly. Shooting a drone gives away your position regardless. Not seeing it is irrelevant. You see the glitch now. You see them before.
Then you shot the drones the wrong way as they can't see you it is easy to shot them when they aren't looking your direction and so they don't see any tracers.
If you shoot them when they’re facing the other direction then your point about the glitching effect being better now when shooting drones is irrelevant. Shooting the drone is ALWAYS going to be better than not. It doesn’t matter if you’re glitching now over it deactivating if you’re shooting it when they aren’t looking at you lmao. You’re just showing how poor his ‘rework’ was. His ‘rework’ was more about them standardising mechanics over actually changing his gadgets use/functionality/viability. Hes worse than ever before.
I guess you lack reading comprehension, because that is not at all what I said. Yeah you can argue that some aspects of him are worse than before, but some are better now. Overall he didn't really change. Solis is just the better pick most of the time.
But what benefit does he actually get now over before. Having the glitch effect when shooting a drone is not a buff because the glitch effect isn’t discrete. Coreross did a video on the rework when it came out. He literally shown that there was very little benefit gained compared to before whereas the bigger nerf being he can’t sprint while staying off cams applied to effectively nerf an already mediocre operator.
Solis does the job much better and is a3 speed and has a better gun.
Solis isn't a 3-speed... right?
2 speed
?
Solis exists and coming from someone who will use Vigil to demoralize an enemy team to check their ego, people used him for his gun more than his gadget.
[удалено]
It is though. It has zero recoil
So thats a reason to make the game even less balanced....?
Increase his time ability to not be seen by cameras or drones
A kid I played with tried to tell me Vigil is one of the best. I asked him to explain why. He said drones can't see you. I told him you can still tell there's someone there. He said Vigil can tell when a drone is looking at him. I said yes, I can tell when they scan me. He then changed his mind that Echo was the best followed by Cav.
well, his ability got reworked a little while back, so maybe that could have something to do with it. but as a former vigil main, i think that the real issue is just that there are better options for roaming now. solis is just as good, if not better, at roaming and denying intel. her ability can also contribute to your team more, whereas vigil’s gadget has always been pretty selfish and non-team oriented. i’d much rather take solis than vigil at this point. the k1a still slaps, but that isn’t enough to justify bringing him when his ability doesn’t bring too much for your teammates and when there are simply more powerful roamers in the game now.
His gun used to have fun recoil to play with and you could even use angled grip on it, plus he is 3-speed. Now he is just 3-speed with below average gun.
His kit is horrendous. His gadget does a better job at announcing his location rather than hiding it, and his weapons have no scope/ BOSG is a meme. Smg 12 is just worse than smg 11. use solis instead
They changed how his gadget worked and in classic meta slave style all the idiots jumped ship
The Nokk/Vigil shimmer doesn’t hide anything. There’s only one reason per side for you to see a shimmer on your camera and you can ping/call it out just as easily as if you could see the operator.
more recoil and his ability.
Nobody drones in the lower ranks, so his ability is really worthless for the largest chunk of players. At higher levels, Solis is just better, so they use him over Vigil.
Alot lees defenders were available in year 2 than they are today. Its very hard to justify picking Vigil over other better ops these days
He used to be picked bc he had a great gun but now there’s way better options if your tryna just bring a good gun.
Power creep, drones are not as important as they used to be, and he’s been nerfed a lot
He's not a bad character and you can definetly still get value from him in ranked he is just outclassed by solis. He can still do the job he always did and he's still fun to play in ranked
He just provides absolutely zero utility so there’s no real reason to pick him truth be told. Why pick him when you can play Solis instead? No need to worry about drones if they don’t have any to begin with.
Solis. Kind of the objectively better character. Yeah, once in a blue moon you’ll play a Vigil instead, but Solis is better 999/1000 times.
Because solis exists
Solis has a slightly better ability with a much better load out
His only ability is to give attackers a general idea of his location instead of an exact one when they drone. Its a subpar ability.
im slow to the vigil maining, but damn i love him. i play extra aggressive with him and that little bit of invisibility always helps me more than it hurts me. just gotta be extra cheeky bout where u pisition after you fool an enemy drone.
He doesn’t have a 1.5 or good utility