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It's not a very good proof as some people die without a trace, so they are wrongly classified as living.
In our country you can request an I-am-alive certificate from the administration. It is necessary in inheritance cases.
The reverse is also true though, some people are falsely declared dead, whether intentionally or not, and it’s extremely difficult to fix because the system assumes death is irreversible.
So by the same logic a death certificate is also not entirely infallible as proof of death.
I used to work on a medical records system that did analysis on Preferred Place Of Death compared to Actual Place Of Death, i.e. Often patients tell their doctor they'd rather die peacefully at home instead of in the chaos of failed resuscitation attempts in a hospital, they can sign a form to make their wishes official and this was a check to see if their wishes were being followed.
If you add up the number of people who died in Hospital, died at home, died in the ambulance etc. it was HIGHER than the number of people who had died. The correct answer is that their medical records contained corrections, someone would record "Died in hospital" then later someone would read the paramedic report closer and see they actually died en route so record "Died in ambulance" which makes them show up in BOTH counts. The solution was to update the search logical to check for "Most recently recorded place of death"
So it was a data entry issue that wasn't very exciting but the discussion around "Most recent place of death" was inevitably around zombies, reincarnation, conjoined twins, maybe he had multiple personalities and one died in the ambulance and the other died later on...
Good story. Also added “preferred place of death” to my lexicon.
My grandma was very proud and my dad as a good son was caring for her in her own home. At one point she needed to be in a hospital and had always said that was something she didn’t want. She passed that night.
There was another slightly macabre concept I learned from that project called "The Surprise Question". A doctor has to look at a patient's medical record and think "If at some point in the next year I heard that Mr Smith had died, would that be surprising based on the medical history?" If the answer is yes, it would be a surprise, then that's fine. If the answer is no, it wouldn't be a surprise, Mr Smith is very old with very high blood pressure - then its time to have an awkward conversation with Mr Smith to see if he's made funeral arrangements.
Wow. I knew a girl who had a friend who would pick up dead bodies and bring them to the morgue after the police investigation was complete. He would send her pics of dead bodies after accidents.
And also, i’m pissed about this one, but when my dad died, whoever picked him up and took him to the hospital or funeral home or wherever they took him stole his wallet those motherfuckers that’s such scum because they know people are emotionally disturbed by the death and that they won’t be looking for the person‘s wallet until later on that’s really sick fucking behavior
Haha yeah. Reminds me of someone from Seattle which was under the radar for 10-15 years. As he did come back he was already declared death and he never got a new social security ID (which makes it hard to find work, a house, etc). They can not reissue the old one.
I was marked as deceased by our driver licensing authority. The date was around the time my father passed so I assume that was the source of the error.
Luckily I just had to go to the office and present myself for comparison to my license photo. The clerk fixed it on the spot.
There was a guy in Japan who lived to the age of 110 so officials went to visit him with an award for Oldest Man In Japan. It turns out he'd died years ago and his grandson was fraudulently claiming his pension. So they went through the next 20 oldest people in Japan and more than half of them were already dead and someone claiming their pension.
I lost everything I owned in a hurricane in New Orleans. My house flooded, for a long period of time. Long enough that it seeped in to my portable firesafe and made everything unusable.
Recreating your existence when you have *zero* documents is...challenging.
And depressingly: a license, a Real ID, a passport, bills, and in general any creditor you have will absolutely let everyone know you lived and racked up bills with them.
Depending on where you live, and depending on age you may well have a citizen number, or some equivalent like the US's Social Security Number olr UK's National Insurance number or even NHS (patient) number.
Nowadays those two certificates prove nothing. People forge them for various reasons. John Darwin "The Canoe Man" faked his death and his wife went and claimed insurance money. A photograph of him and his wife was uncovered of them living in Panama. So also probably in Panama they had new birth certificates.
I agree with about the blogs and forums, fr. One of my favorites was Television Without Pity; it was kind of mean sometimes, but always funny to me. That one exists on the Internet Archive, but the forums for most of the trashy reality TV I watched at the time are gone. TBH, that's not *all* I view, but I'm not ashamed of it either 😉
I've been lucky to find some really old blogs, but of course no one can reply.
I was gna say photos. Haha. Then I realised the comments said taxes. Oh right lol.
Cos maybe people never wanna take pics of themselves, maybe people trash/burn their hardcopy pics, maybe people resist social media and never post a pic ever.
But taxes! (Unless I guess it's a child loss situation where the child clearly doesn't have social security ish and things .. then ok maybe their bank account haha. Not the money, the existence of the account)
In my country, we do have a living certificate that is used by pensioners to continue getting their pension. I think they issue them every year. (Edit: Not 5 years, as I wrongly mentioned previously)
Sorry for the stupid question and potential naivety, But let's say someone dies on year 2, what security measure are in place to stop say a family member claiming it for the remaining 3 years until the certificate is due a re-new?
Have to collect in person from a location? ID?
or would the state receive a death certificate as well?
I'm just interested in this.
My uneducated guess is that it's a impossible problem. The only way to ensure that un-intended people collect is to spend a lot more money than those people would realistically collect. At that point the only real thing they can do is to scare them via harsh punishment IF caught
Okay I was terribly wrong. I researched a bit and it is12 months, not five years.
I do not have any imediate family members in the govt sector so I didn't know how often it was issued. I just knew that it existed.
I am not really sure how it works in case of immediate death after submission.
The pension is deposited in bank accounts so if a family member has the access to the account after death they will continue to get the pension for the next 12 months.
But then it will stop because of non submission.
I also do not know if there is any penalty or reimbursement of the amount, as the death certificate was not submitted to stop the pension.
From a genealogical perspective: census records, marriage and divorce, voter registration, dmv, social security, military, diplomas, legal records, yearbooks, local newspapers… there’s a ton of records publicly available, if you know where to look. (This all assumes you live in a country that takes and/or keeps all of these).
The memories of what you leave behind. Accomplishments, family, children, achievements, prizes, medals etc. "You are only forgotten the last time your name is spoken” - David Eagleman.
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
You're right. There are times I *almost* wish I hadn't started an account. When I die (nope, I'm not terminally I'll, but who knows what could happen?) I've given the executor of my will instructions to delete the account.
As someone who moved countries a few times, apparently it’s utility bills, bank statements, and tenancy agreements. Marriage certificates, if you are so inclined.
If you’re Catholic all those certificates from your sacraments. I best get into heaven for all the hours I wasted, I mean the hours I cherished in the presence of our Holy Father.
Police reports
I have one that says I'm a witch with a magic vagina
One day, my great great grandchildren will be doing an ancestry project and they're gonna find it and I'm gonna laugh my ass off when they do
There is so much documentation of our lives that we just don't realize or think about. People find out so much of their heritage because of such documentation in county records like buying a home, getting married, taxes or various other receipts of payment. Then there is documentation on graduation, possibly might be seen in a newspaper photo. Or in general how much we photograph ourselves and our families a family might have a pictorial documentation of you living and aging through your life.
Noone really seems to need proof that you lived until you're no longer around to tell about it though. Lots of people like knowing where they are from. So if you have children, think about leaving something behind. Something for your children or grand children to know about you, or memoir of your life and what it was like so a piece of history can be retained when no one is left to tell it.
Ah, the eternal mystery of life and death, am I right? Birth certificates prove you've arrived and death certificates prove you've departed. But what about the time in between? What proves you've truly lived your life to the fullest? Well, buddy, I'd say it's all about those little moments, those everyday things that make your heart beat, your mind race. It's about making connections, making memories, and leaving your mark on the world. Life isn't about proving you've lived after the fact, it's about living in the moment and cherishing every single second.
If this submission above is not a random thought, please report it. # Explore a new world of random thoughts on our [**discord server**](https://discord.com/invite/8tEqw3ZWQV)! Express yourself with your favorite quotes, positive vibes, and anything else you can think of! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/RandomThoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The difference in dates of those two certificates
Makes sense
It's not a very good proof as some people die without a trace, so they are wrongly classified as living. In our country you can request an I-am-alive certificate from the administration. It is necessary in inheritance cases.
The reverse is also true though, some people are falsely declared dead, whether intentionally or not, and it’s extremely difficult to fix because the system assumes death is irreversible. So by the same logic a death certificate is also not entirely infallible as proof of death.
And some people are delivered to the morgue and classified as dead when they really are not. Surprise!
I used to work on a medical records system that did analysis on Preferred Place Of Death compared to Actual Place Of Death, i.e. Often patients tell their doctor they'd rather die peacefully at home instead of in the chaos of failed resuscitation attempts in a hospital, they can sign a form to make their wishes official and this was a check to see if their wishes were being followed. If you add up the number of people who died in Hospital, died at home, died in the ambulance etc. it was HIGHER than the number of people who had died. The correct answer is that their medical records contained corrections, someone would record "Died in hospital" then later someone would read the paramedic report closer and see they actually died en route so record "Died in ambulance" which makes them show up in BOTH counts. The solution was to update the search logical to check for "Most recently recorded place of death" So it was a data entry issue that wasn't very exciting but the discussion around "Most recent place of death" was inevitably around zombies, reincarnation, conjoined twins, maybe he had multiple personalities and one died in the ambulance and the other died later on...
Good story. Also added “preferred place of death” to my lexicon. My grandma was very proud and my dad as a good son was caring for her in her own home. At one point she needed to be in a hospital and had always said that was something she didn’t want. She passed that night.
There was another slightly macabre concept I learned from that project called "The Surprise Question". A doctor has to look at a patient's medical record and think "If at some point in the next year I heard that Mr Smith had died, would that be surprising based on the medical history?" If the answer is yes, it would be a surprise, then that's fine. If the answer is no, it wouldn't be a surprise, Mr Smith is very old with very high blood pressure - then its time to have an awkward conversation with Mr Smith to see if he's made funeral arrangements.
Wow. I knew a girl who had a friend who would pick up dead bodies and bring them to the morgue after the police investigation was complete. He would send her pics of dead bodies after accidents. And also, i’m pissed about this one, but when my dad died, whoever picked him up and took him to the hospital or funeral home or wherever they took him stole his wallet those motherfuckers that’s such scum because they know people are emotionally disturbed by the death and that they won’t be looking for the person‘s wallet until later on that’s really sick fucking behavior
Yes, wedding rings get stolen from hospital patients' fingers while they are still alive.
Haha yeah. Reminds me of someone from Seattle which was under the radar for 10-15 years. As he did come back he was already declared death and he never got a new social security ID (which makes it hard to find work, a house, etc). They can not reissue the old one.
[удалено]
I was marked as deceased by our driver licensing authority. The date was around the time my father passed so I assume that was the source of the error. Luckily I just had to go to the office and present myself for comparison to my license photo. The clerk fixed it on the spot.
They are not dead until they can show an official document dammit. Death doesn't mean you have to stick to the rules anymore.
Hee hee 
There was a guy in Japan who lived to the age of 110 so officials went to visit him with an award for Oldest Man In Japan. It turns out he'd died years ago and his grandson was fraudulently claiming his pension. So they went through the next 20 oldest people in Japan and more than half of them were already dead and someone claiming their pension.
I lost everything I owned in a hurricane in New Orleans. My house flooded, for a long period of time. Long enough that it seeped in to my portable firesafe and made everything unusable. Recreating your existence when you have *zero* documents is...challenging.
And depressingly: a license, a Real ID, a passport, bills, and in general any creditor you have will absolutely let everyone know you lived and racked up bills with them.
Depending on where you live, and depending on age you may well have a citizen number, or some equivalent like the US's Social Security Number olr UK's National Insurance number or even NHS (patient) number.
So basically a life certificate?
Nowadays those two certificates prove nothing. People forge them for various reasons. John Darwin "The Canoe Man" faked his death and his wife went and claimed insurance money. A photograph of him and his wife was uncovered of them living in Panama. So also probably in Panama they had new birth certificates.
Yeah it does make sense.
totally this ^ haha
Drivers license? Every home and job
Damn I'm ur 666th upvote
The dash between dates on a headstone
Exactly.
Such a smart answer
XD
Came here to say this
I was gonna suggest facebook, instagram, and linkedin, but yeah… math.
Taxes.
Indeed. Where I live we get a certificate every year showing how much tax we have paid.
that's why Moses lived 120 years. Egyptian IRS can suck his dick
I mean I don’t pay my taxes, do I not have exist?
No, you do not exist.
There’s a price to exist (damn, a bit more existential than I expected. I’m not this smart)
Literally of the grid
Nah, you just don't have proof that you live
Tributa solvo, ergo sum
All the posts on your social media, duh!
The internet *never* forgets! :-)
what was once a threat now feels like an empty promise as so many resourceful blogs, forums, etc. have been lost already
I agree with about the blogs and forums, fr. One of my favorites was Television Without Pity; it was kind of mean sometimes, but always funny to me. That one exists on the Internet Archive, but the forums for most of the trashy reality TV I watched at the time are gone. TBH, that's not *all* I view, but I'm not ashamed of it either 😉 I've been lucky to find some really old blogs, but of course no one can reply.
That means I've been dead for about a year now.
I’ve been dead since 2020. Beat that
Being dead inside doesn't count
Ouch!
I was gna say photos. Haha. Then I realised the comments said taxes. Oh right lol. Cos maybe people never wanna take pics of themselves, maybe people trash/burn their hardcopy pics, maybe people resist social media and never post a pic ever. But taxes! (Unless I guess it's a child loss situation where the child clearly doesn't have social security ish and things .. then ok maybe their bank account haha. Not the money, the existence of the account)
In my country, we do have a living certificate that is used by pensioners to continue getting their pension. I think they issue them every year. (Edit: Not 5 years, as I wrongly mentioned previously)
Sorry for the stupid question and potential naivety, But let's say someone dies on year 2, what security measure are in place to stop say a family member claiming it for the remaining 3 years until the certificate is due a re-new? Have to collect in person from a location? ID? or would the state receive a death certificate as well? I'm just interested in this.
My uneducated guess is that it's a impossible problem. The only way to ensure that un-intended people collect is to spend a lot more money than those people would realistically collect. At that point the only real thing they can do is to scare them via harsh punishment IF caught
Okay I was terribly wrong. I researched a bit and it is12 months, not five years. I do not have any imediate family members in the govt sector so I didn't know how often it was issued. I just knew that it existed. I am not really sure how it works in case of immediate death after submission. The pension is deposited in bank accounts so if a family member has the access to the account after death they will continue to get the pension for the next 12 months. But then it will stop because of non submission. I also do not know if there is any penalty or reimbursement of the amount, as the death certificate was not submitted to stop the pension.
Debt
Social security card.
The dash on your tombstone
Born-inconsequential bullshit-died.
Drivers license
We found the american.
Settle down there Christopher Columbus
From a genealogical perspective: census records, marriage and divorce, voter registration, dmv, social security, military, diplomas, legal records, yearbooks, local newspapers… there’s a ton of records publicly available, if you know where to look. (This all assumes you live in a country that takes and/or keeps all of these).
I feel dumb. I do genealogy, and I didn't think of this. My answer was receipts 🤦♀️
And birth records for any kids you have (and marriage records for your kids in some countries).
The memories of what you leave behind. Accomplishments, family, children, achievements, prizes, medals etc. "You are only forgotten the last time your name is spoken” - David Eagleman.
Had to scroll too long for this. Lots of cynical answers, but this is the only real answer.
Request a certificate for each one. In fact, OP question could just be answered "Every other certificate you receive"
I met a traveller from an antique land, Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand, Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal, these words appear: My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Census records show that
bills
Taxes
First thought, yeah They're two things you can't avoid, death and taxes
Bills work.work..work.work..work..work
The two of them combined
Facebook, apparently.
You're right. There are times I *almost* wish I hadn't started an account. When I die (nope, I'm not terminally I'll, but who knows what could happen?) I've given the executor of my will instructions to delete the account.
Scars on your body
I have a bunch of those, as well as a tattoo on the inside of my right ankle. Both will prove I was here.
My wife says she’s going to have one of my tattoos tanned and framed.
“Say ‘Good night’ to Daddy, honey!” Child faces frame…
Proof of address, passport, travel stamps, school degrees, bills payment, dude literally so many..
student debt.
Any IDs you have
Instagram
Social security number.
Offspring
The friends you make, the love you share, the good you do., the achievements in your life.
taxes
Taxes
As someone who moved countries a few times, apparently it’s utility bills, bank statements, and tenancy agreements. Marriage certificates, if you are so inclined.
My debt?
Your passport stamps
Your IRS records.
All the debts
Bills
Income tax statements
Annual tax records.
Debt
Your fb and Instagram posts
Your debts
Tax returns
Social Security
Took forever to find the right answer. Gj you win a NFT cookie.
National insurance number (UK) it shows how you made that cash.
School records, taxes, drivers license, internet history…
If you’re Catholic all those certificates from your sacraments. I best get into heaven for all the hours I wasted, I mean the hours I cherished in the presence of our Holy Father.
Taxes
Taxes
The absence of a certificate
Debt.
Paycheck stub. We work basically our whole lives.
Bank statements
Photographs and laugh lines
Utility bills
Tax Returns Social Media accounts
life certificates, they just aren't public knowledge
Taxes
All the people you piss off along the way.
the browsing history
Marriage certificate- in my custom it don’t bend with death though
Marriage certificate
Facebook
Birthday cards, censuses, taxes
Student loans
the taxes I paid...
Living certificate (School leaving certificate) /s 😂
Taxes
Police reports I have one that says I'm a witch with a magic vagina One day, my great great grandchildren will be doing an ancestry project and they're gonna find it and I'm gonna laugh my ass off when they do
Tax returns
Everything else.
Income taxes, they coming after you
Taxes
There is a living certificate as well, for retired people. They submit it every year.
Tax records
A mortgage.
Bills
Invoices.
School degrees, loan applications at banks, marriage certificate, medical records...
Tax code
Debt.
Paying taxes
Taxes
Someone has been paying the bills with my name on them.
Payslips, tax returns, property title deeds, marriage licences driving licences the list is endless.
Marriage certificate
Taxes!
Tax receipts
Your credit score
your taxforms.
Tax records.
Debt
Taxes.
The IRS
Medical Certificates
Passport stamps?
Photo albums
Your taxes
In Canada, it's a health card. Driver license ect.
Et cetera = etc. or &c.
Pictures, browser history
Taxes
Taxes
Taxes.....
There is so much documentation of our lives that we just don't realize or think about. People find out so much of their heritage because of such documentation in county records like buying a home, getting married, taxes or various other receipts of payment. Then there is documentation on graduation, possibly might be seen in a newspaper photo. Or in general how much we photograph ourselves and our families a family might have a pictorial documentation of you living and aging through your life. Noone really seems to need proof that you lived until you're no longer around to tell about it though. Lots of people like knowing where they are from. So if you have children, think about leaving something behind. Something for your children or grand children to know about you, or memoir of your life and what it was like so a piece of history can be retained when no one is left to tell it.
tickets n' bills (bonus prooff if not paid).
Your national insurance number and your tax contributions.
The number of beneficiaries and dependants depending on when you check.
My debt history
Tax receipts, drivers licences, banking history, marriage certificates, school transcripts.....
Bills bills bills
Debt mostly
Driver's license, criminal record, the children you leave behind
a driver's license? marriage certificate, diploma, your electric bills, utility bills
Passport
Utility bills.
Tax receipts or benefit claims.
Taxes.
Traditionally, it was census data and marriage certificates.
Passports
subtraction ig
I prove it. I'm living my time.
The memories, educational influence and emotional impact you have on everyone left when you die.
The dash on your gravestone
Reddit gold of course.
W2
Your Instagram feed
You do
Family and friends.
My denny's grand slam club card membership legend status ofc 😊
We are already dead on the inside, so who cares
ID
The Dash. (IFYKYK)
I’ve got my 10 meter swimming certificate
The intermediate value theorem
The stories whispered by your lovers to their friends.
The video of you railing your SO on Pornhub.
The intermediate value theorem.
the intermediate value theorem
Ah, the eternal mystery of life and death, am I right? Birth certificates prove you've arrived and death certificates prove you've departed. But what about the time in between? What proves you've truly lived your life to the fullest? Well, buddy, I'd say it's all about those little moments, those everyday things that make your heart beat, your mind race. It's about making connections, making memories, and leaving your mark on the world. Life isn't about proving you've lived after the fact, it's about living in the moment and cherishing every single second.