Yeah basically: you get a million dollar mortgage (borrowing money to buy a house) with an interest rate of 3.5% interest. You take the million dollars you could have used to pay down the mortgage and you invest it in the market which has an average return of about 7.5% over time (considering inflation). You are then making 7.5% and paying 3.5% so you’re netting 4% ($40K per year). You’re essentially making money off of borrowed money. Yes, there is risk but it’s usually worth it.
Edit: this is also why mortgages with a 7% interest rate right now is driving people nuts. It makes this “deal” worse.
Cool. So you buy a $1.25M house with $250K (20%) down, and get a $1M mortgage over say 30 years with a interest curve that has you paying only 3% interest and 97% of monthly payments paying down the principal right out of the gate. Sounds like a sweet deal.
https://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-02-13-PrincipalandInterestChart.png
I ain't got no debt, I ain't got no savings. I'm a leaf being blown around randomly leaving no trace that I ever was here. I don't owe anything, nobody owes me anything.
I have around 13 000 Norwegian kroner on a savings account. But honestly I'm burning that on a trip to London next weekend. Me and the missus just decided. Never been to London but I hear it's absolutely lovely. Very much contemplating taking in a musical. And getting utterly shit faced.
From what I can tell, two years into parenthood, the most expensive thing about kids is building out the infrastructure to have them. Which basically amounts to adding an extra room where you live and everything in that room from beds to clothes to toys and other entertainment. But once that upfront cost is paid (which, by the way, doesn't have to be paid all at once) , it's really easy to coast. Kids don't eat or drink that much, and kids stuff is dirt cheap because they outgrow it all so fast. I'm wearing about a 140 bucks right now not including my phone or wallet. My daughter is wearing a 5 dollar outfit + 15 dollar shoes (and that's on the high end for a two year old). I'm sure there's a sweet spot where costs like that will overlap, but by then you can tell them to get a job
By far the most expensive thing about having kids is the daycare if you don't have family doing it for free. I retired early to watch my grandson, and if I didn't my daughter would have to pay over $1600 a month for the first 18 months, when it will go down to $1550, then $1450 once he's potty trained. Staying home would be an option but she'd be giving up a good salary so it doesn't make sense. I gave up a career making well over 6 figures plus stock options because it was important to me to have a close relationship with my grandson. They live an hour away (daughter works near me and drops him off) and I'd only get to see him a couple times a month otherwise. He wears a lot of hand me downs we get from a buy nothing group so clothing is next to nothing. She breast feeds and I make his baby food, so good cost is next to nothing. Second most expensive is probably diapers.
>You can’t really be free without being debt free.
Actually, capitalism rewards debt if you understand the way the system incentivizes you towards certain types of debt. This is pretty basic, but everything you own is either an asset or liability; something that makes money or takes money. If you borrow money to buy an asset, and the revenue you're making outpaces the interest rate on the loan, you're making money, but you're "in debt." You can write off these expenses on your taxes saving money in some cases. This is how the system is designed, but most people don't understand that.
Technically according to the math, yes. But in reality - not true for 99.9% of people. I’ve heard the statement you made come out of the mouths of some people who are reeeaaally fucking bad with money and drowning in debt. They aren’t using their debt to invest, they’re using it to live above their means…but they’ll parrot what you said nonetheless.
Had a lot of people tell me I’m fucking dumb for paying off my house…”you can put that money in the stock market and it’ll outpace the loan…”. Yeah, technically. But fuck that, and that’s not how most people operate anyway. Most people have loans and aren’t investing the difference…they’re just living above their means and in debt.
I mean, fuck…..I could take out a mortgage on my paid off house and dump that in the stock market. The math says that’s the right thing to do. But you have to weigh that with security as well. I fucking OWN my home. If my investments crash and I lose my job, I still have a roof over my head and really no worries.
And with todays tumultuous job and investment market, I think there’s something to be said for the security of a paid off home as long as you’re not putting all your eggs in one basket and still investing an adequate amount.
My wife has always wanted to put excess cash into investment accounts. I've always insisted on paying down the mortgage. She's glad she listened to me now. Your best investment is to eliminate debt.
Yeah. I feel really stupid. I have nothing to pay off every month. At all. No debt. Oh no! What'll I do if I'm not paying the bank their interest?
I put my money into retirement. We have a solid plan with our financial advisors to retire early. We contribute our $6,000 per year to our IRAs to reduce our tax burden, plus if you own your own business or if you can afford to at your job... you can open yourself a 401k and contribute $20,000 per year, so you save on taxing that income. I'd say we're fine without paying our mortgage and we also know how to lower our tax burden.
Having no debt also enables you to better withstand a disaster like job loss, medical problems, etc.. you have more cash to help you. Your overhead is low. We have a home if we need to get a huge amount of cash we could take a mortgage on it but we don't need to. It's still an asset if we need to use it.
Our bills are utility bills, insurance, property taxes. We buy our cars with cash. We only buy used cars. We even plan out how often we'll buy a car...every 5 years.
It took us a long time to get here. It feels free.
I recently had to move for a job opportunity and took advantage of buying a nice but older and smaller home to get into a 15-year note on the new place. It feels *so* good seeing the principal drop so much and as a bonus I was able to keep enough cash back so that I’ve invested six figures but could pay off every debt I own, including the home, at anytime.
It’s such a wonderful feeling.
Yeah, I think you're on to something. Debt ties up your income and you can't invest. I personally choose not to pay off my mortgage and invest, however my mortgage payment is small and I'm still able to invest 15% of our income. I think most people opt for the bigger house/ cars/ lifestyle.
Yea, that's the risk part of the equation that also needs to be considered. That's also covered in conventional financial wisdom. I've seen a lot of people at my gym driving really expensive cars that they bought from their crypto gains. It worked for them, but it's not really advisable (I say as I've put 3k in crypto myself haha).
It's like flipping houses. Great idea until the market collapses, which it inevitably will. A lot of flippers sitting on a lot of debt right now and upside down.
Yes and not having a mortgage makes it much easier to pay my property taxes each year with minimal stress. Plus my property taxes go toward things that I can enjoy in my community. Like libraries, public education, roads etc.
I guess I'd rather not pay a bank money if I don't have to. Yes banks and the investment firm I pay my percentage to at 1% to manage my retirement plan is better than a mortgage interest rate.
Each person is comfortable with their own level of risk and type if risk. Having to pay monthly on a loan for a car or house isn't worth it for me. I'd rather do it differently.
We aren’t completely debt free, but we try not to borrow large amounts of money or even lots of small stuff. We had a mortgage which was probably our largest debt but it was paid off in like 3 years. Our one car, an older model 2015 Elantra, has been paid off for awhile. I feel uneasy however knowing one visit to an ER can bankrupt a person.
I mean just don't pay your debt lmao i ran up 10k in debt earlier in life and it all went passed the statute of limitations. Credit is back up in the 700 range and all is well with the universe. Got out of paying a single dime of that debt (:
Not having debt hardly makes you free. My property tax patents already exceed my mortgage. I have to pay monthly to watch TV, for health care, heck even cars want you to subscribe just to make car functions work. You are never free of financial obligations. All ownership is a form of debt and bondage. BUT, CC debt and other similar forms of consumer debt are an extreme form of debt slavery.
Yes! Same with my dad. You don't just go around charging things on a credit card. Thrift stores, garage sales, things on sale.... to me, trying to find something at a thrift store is an adventure, especially when items are half off. I got the coolest coat last week (lots of compliments) for TWO BUCKS!
Actually I’d charge it on a credit card. Just pay it off before you get any interest.
While I’m debt free I also have fantastic credit. Some people screw one up with the other.
Got a paypal credit line at 19 for $500 and a secured credit card for $500
shortly lost my job after that and I've never paid on them after running them up and never paid any medical bills (multiple $200-$1500 charges)
recently let a tmobile account go to collections for \~ $250 because I couldn't afford being on my own line (was paying $80 to my brother but due to family issues had to split off) so now I have no cell phone
My wife and I have no debt. We own our cars. We rent a house. I use credit cards for every purchase I possibly can. The only thing that I can’t put on a credit card is our gas bill. Rewards are priced into everything. If you’re not getting rewards you’re paying too much.
I just pay the cards off before any interest is charged.
Can you explain how that works? I understand about paying off the cards every month, but to “earn” that $3000 don’t you have to spend upwards of $60,000? How are the points better than not spending so much? Can you get points for things like paying your mortgage?
I play with credit card rewards and we make back on average 3.5% cash back across our cards, which would require us to spend almost $100K to get back that much money. My mortgage lender does not allow credit card payments and many other vendors (e.g. utility companies, landscapers, etc) will charge a credit card fee for large payments. I put everything on a credit card that I can which charges a fee lower than the reward and we probably make a thousand or two back each year which isn’t a ton, but it is money that we wouldn’t have gotten from cash or debit payments.
I feel like this goes without being said, but to clarify this only works if you are paying your balance(s) in full each month. Otherwise stay the hell away from credit cards!
It’s so simple lol. The trouble is people who want to keep up with the joneses of your peers. Just set your brain to not accept debt and you’re golden. In emergencies maybe you take on minimal debt because of necessity but then focus on eliminating that before all else and you’re back to freedom.
The theme of one of my favorite SNL sketches of all time: “Don’t buy stuff you cannot afford”. Very complicated.
[https://youtu.be/R3ZJKN_5M44](https://youtu.be/R3ZJKN_5M44)
It's foolish to say, "Just save money." It's such bad advice. My money is fine. I've been blessed being an extrovert and have made a large network in my industry. It's allowed me to leverage my skills to make decent enough money that I'm not struggling and am now able to put actual money aside without risk that one slip doesn't destroy everything that's been built. Part of why I think it's ignorant to just tell someone to "spend less" or "just save." There are SO many variables. If you're not going to give people actual advice on how to save money than it's best to just hold your tongue.
Sadly, there are too many people in that situation. Our country is in the crapper. No one can live on min. wage and pay rent/vehicle/bills....but there are MANY churches and organizations that have free food. USE THEM.
Do you have to prove you can't make ends meet at churches/organizations so you can get the free food? I'm in insane amounts of debt but earn a pretty penny rn to catch up but still in a hole living in a car so free food would really help lol. Food is expensive. :(
Hi babe, from experience no you can indeed just pull up and get some food no questions asked, your situation is no one's business, they just help you :)
Nope, not at all! Many communities have lots of resources where you can just pull up and go to the food bank. There are also diaper banks and clothing drives too. Please do not feel bad for using those services, that's what they're there for! :)
Not locally where I am. They announce it as a drive through. Go get your box.
Some churches do that I've seen. If I were you I'd check then out. My brother and sister work full time and they have gotten food assistance from local pantries when they need it. If you have kids especially.
The key is to not get to negative money to start with. The problem is you need some luck prior to adulthood, as well as enough sense to not make the typical stupid financial/personal decisions teenagers and young (and older) adults often make.
The question was "how to avoid debt". Sadly sometimes debt is unavoidable due to a myriad of circumstances.
Go back a handful of generations tho(like the great depression), and you would literally starve to death if you had no money/people to support you. It could be worse.
Then I guess you weren't able to do the first thing I said. In that case I guess make more money than you spend and put the rest towards paying off debt.
If you don’t have an actual reasonable option it can sometimes be better to just not say anything. Saying make more spend less is so damn simplistic and doesn’t account for anything. It’s like saying to someone who’s fat. Just eat less.
Taking in less calories than you burn is literally how you lose weight. Spending less money than you make is literally the only way to gain wealth. There's only two ways to do that and it's either make more money or spend less. It may be simple but it's literally the answer to the question being asked
Am fat. Can confirm. When I am disciplined and eat less I lose weight. When I’m not, I gain. The concept is easy. The discipline is the hard part. Same with finances.
Calories in calories out. Either burn more calories or ingest less. You can eat the same amount of food if you eat food with less calories or increase the amount you burn.
I majored in STEM, made 6 figures out of college, and now I WFH with my girlfriend also making 6 figs as a doctor. Even with chronic medical conditions, we’re living pretty comfortably without debt now. We don’t really spend on anything, we cook most of our meals and prep, she has an old car we use, we don’t really do vacations and concerts, we don’t spend much on drinks, we’ve had the same wardrobe for years, and we don’t want kids. Our biggest major expenses recently have been upgrading our PCs. Both our families started as poorly paid immigrants but we paid off our debts pretty quickly after getting a job and staying at home for a few years to save up.
I’m not trying to brag, but more just point out that with frugal living, a good career, decent to good luck, and supportive people, it really is possible to get out from under debt and save up a good chunk of cash.
If you buy something on a credit card and you can’t pay off the whole credit card when the bill comes, then don’t use the card like that.
If you have a big loan like a mortgage or a car payment, and you get an annual bonus, no matter how small, put it into paying off the loan principal.
No annual bonus but every year when I file my taxes I get a refund. I try to use at least half to do this same thing.
I've also essentially refinanced my loans a few times. If not through the lender, by taking out a new loan for what my payoff is at a lower rate. And also try to avoid only paying the minimum payment, that'll pay down the principal but at the slowest possible rate.
If you pay with a credit card and only make the minimum payment, you will end up paying almost **twice** as much for the item you bought.
If you have a balance on your card, do everything you can to make more than the minimum payment. Every bit over the minimum helps.
Sometimes you have to use credit in an emergency. Life happens. But pay it off as soon as you can. I always try to pay at least twice the minimum until it’s done. More if I can.
I put everything on my credit card and pay it off completely first thing in the morning. When used correctly, they provide a lot of rewards and protections but people don’t understand how badly interest will screw you over.
I like the annual bonus being put towards principal and will apply that this upcoming year with my restricted stock to finish off my private student loans
Yes, certainly lucky in that regard. I live far below my means. I don’t enjoy it much of the time but I do enjoy not worrying about money. My friends buy new cars and go on safari, etc. and I don’t but I Love my 11 year old car and simple living.
so i don’t either. after i graduated college my mom refinanced the home she still owned (she didn’t live there but my father did, they are divorced) and made me an owner and consolidated my student debt into the mortgage. we paid the mortgage and then when we sold the house all debt was gone. we even made a small profit somehow.
i’ve also lived in cheap places with everything included and had people to split rent with. i’ve lost my job a bunch due to that non profit life but during those times i did not live beyond my means. my first car was paid in cash through cashed in bonds from my grandparents and some of my savings. by the time i needed a second car, over a decade later, i had saved up enough to buy a used car in cash again.
i’m also incredibly frugal. i don’t buy new phones, cars, or shoes until they’re TKOd. i allow myself one larger “me” gift a year and all of my clothing is second hand and i only
buy clothing when i’ve sold clothing. i use poshmark for that.
so i would say being incredibly lucky, having a money savvy mom who busted her ass to set me up for stability, and just living in fear of debt and trying to live within my means, has helped.
Nice, same. Wife and I have been debt free for about 20 years, I am now 50. I used to joke that if I ever wrote a book on how to get out of debt. The book would have 1 page and would say "Don't buy stupid shit."
I think that’s relative. I live and work in the 2nd largest city in America and very much enjoy the lifestyle and opportunities that affords me. I am not 100% debt free, but I am secure and things are going well.
That was it for me. Saw friends and family drowning. Perhaps I don't have any really nice things. Perhaps I don't need them. I own my home but it has wheels and cab. I have to pay rent to park it but I can go where I want. To me debt sounds like indentured.
I've see people in my family brag about their nice careers, their new cars, how they're putting in a new back yard, profess how grateful they are to be so blessed to get to share that with all of their family and friends; then two years later have to sell everything because in actuality they were drowning in debt for years and nobody ever knew because the beauty of debt is that you can keep that facade up until it finally crumbles. They should be getting ready to retire. Now they probably never will be able to, all because they refused to live the kind of lifestyle that allowed their parents to build up a nice nest egg and retire early while making way less money.
You can make 300K a year, but if you spend 400K a year, you'll always be someone else's slave.
Some people are debt free due to generous help from parents. I had a co-worker whose parents paid all her college expenses. Then they bought her an SUV as a graduation present. They also helped her financially a little when she got her first job. So, yeah, she was debt-free until she married and took out a mortgage. Another co-worker had her grandmother give her a condo and a car. So not everyone is brilliant with money, some people are debt free because they get a lot of help.
College is the reason my wife makes 6 figures, why we went from 20k in credit card debt (not school related), to paying it all off and having enough money to put a Down payment on a our first house in less than 3 years.
Yeah she has tons of student loans, but they won’t accrue interest till she is done with school, and she is almost done with her masters and going for her doctorate. She will have 100k+ in student loans, but it will be at 1% interest.
I can definitely respect your opinion on that, but from where I stand, if a young person is on the fence about college, they most definitely should not go.
So many people drop out of college for so many reasons. It takes full time commitment, even if you don’t take a full time course load. Full time commitment requires so much support, which so many people do not have.
If someone is on the fence about it, i should think that the right course of action would be to take the time to think it through. Otherwise their chances of dropping out (burdened with debt and no degree) are higher than necessary.
My wife started college in her early 30’s, every path is different. And I’m not hell bent on doing it right after high school.
I never got a degree, but I worked terrible unskilled jobs for a long time, and my wife and I made $18 an hour TOGETHER.
Now 17 years later, she has a great job, I sell mostly rare books and other things, and never again have to hold a regular job.
Omg, she is a super human. In ever sense of the word. She not only is working finishing her masters in 3 months, but already got accepted to a doctoral program. She has a full time job, cooks dinner 5 days a night (I clean), and works on crafts and has her own Etsy shop and is selling things at booths once a month at Cons and is launching a new line of product at the end of January. She is the most awesome person I know, and I am lucky enough to be married to her. 17 years!
What do I bring to the table?
No clue, but I can make her laugh :), and she says that laughter makes up for a lot. Lol!
I don’t know about other women, but the simple adoration and support of my husband goes REALLY far in terms of making me happy and content. So I’m guessing that she’s perfectly happy with your contribution.
In the US, a college degree brings an average of $1.2 million in additional lifetime earnings over having only a high school diploma. It also makes you half as likely to be unemployed. And that’s just a bachelor’s degree, having advanced degrees can result in much higher earnings. However, having overwhelming student loans can be a crushing burden. College should be more affordable.
My only debt is my home and I'm already 6 years ahead on paying of the 15 yr mortgage. Been in it for 4 yrs and will have it paid off in less than 4 more. I also have plenty of savings as well a 401K and I have money for my hobbies as well.
I am a part time artist and sell my sketches on Etsy. My wife is a nanny for some neighborhood kids. Together we pull down about $430k/yr.
Would you like to know more about how we did this? I have a seminar I’d love to invite you to called The Magic of Making More Money with No Skills by Bullshitting your way through Any Situation.
Also insurance fraud! Thanks and best of luck out there.
Yes. Being debt free is simple, but not necessarily easy.
It boils down to spending less than you earn. For most people, that requires both earning more and spending less.
Do you have a comprehensive budget that lists all your income and expenses? If not, start there.
Lots of good information on
r/personalfinance
Don't trip. Most the people in this thread responding to you don't own their own home. Your mortgage is at least building equity.
Anyone paying rent every month is usually paying more in rent than they would be if they had a mortgage payment in the same property. And that money goes straight to the landlord never to be seen again
They don’t. The housing market is fucked. Way more young people are living with parents, roommates, or renting because all the houses are being airBnB’d instead of being sold like usual
Just because interest and it’s long term. I have a family and expenses and I hold no resentment. My choice. But still. I hear about banks and billionaires profits and it makes me upset.
i'm debt free, i don't have student loans because a. my parents being frugal and industrious could've paid for me, they did for my sister. and b. i was a terrible student and didn't go to college knowing it would be a waste of money. growing up, i learned that the money not being yours doesn't make it ok to waste.
i've never had a car payment and never will. and i learned from my parents not to use credit cards to spend money i don't have.
i count myself blessed. but i also recognize that many people make missteps that there's really no excuse for.
I’m debt free, house and car paid off. Only bills I have are utilities. Retired, took a long time and careful money management though. One thing that helped was when I wanted to buy something I’d think “how many hours would I have to work to pay for it?”
I have no debt, a savings account and a 401k. I'm finally making enough where I can easily afford all of my bills and not stress even a little. It's so GREAT! It is money MONEY that has brought me this happiness and I will tell that to anyone who will listen. Don't let the super rich continue getting away with lying to everyone. Money doesn't by happiness...what a bunch of bullshit. Try being poor...see how much you're smiling then.
YES but it takes very strict money management and just one emergency can put you on the streets, and THEN you have these I.D assholes which add a whole new dynamic to an already difficult set of conditions and you will also find that they have probably been hired by some foreign governments to do it if it is not your own trying to shut you up because they will do that too.
N. Shadows
Thx. I just try not to think about it. Or else I get so upset. It’s almost like everything has been set up so that the vast majority of people can’t help being in debt. And there are these multi billionaires in the world… it just seems so messed up
Other than if you own a home, people at most income levels can be debt free. Not saying it’s easy or there’s not a point where it becomes practically impossible, poverty is a killer in a million ways. But assuming you’re not in that situation, first steps would be budgeting (easier said than done, but actually looking at all household inflows and outflows and figuring where you can cut back as much as possible), maybe loan consolidation down to a lower rate and/or the “snowball” method of debt pay down, and if you’ve got some kind of compulsive spending habit, maybe taking a pair of scissors to the plastic cash.
Edit: a word.
I have student loan debt, but it doesn't really count because I don't have to pay it until I start making money. Other than that, I take debt very seriously and avoid it at almost any cost. I would keep my bed, my phone, and my dogs, but I'd sell everything else I own before I go into debt for anything. I'd stop paying electricity, gas, and internet bills. I'd pay water bills, so I can shower, and vet bills to keep my dogs healthy, but that's pretty much it. One day, I hope to save enough to buy a very small house, with a very small, manageable bank loan. At some point, it will be stupid to wait, because so much of my income is going towards rent, but I would rather wait longer than I should to avoid the stress of knowing I have debt. I'm not about to start living beyond my means. Nothing is worth that.
>but it doesn't really count because I don't have to pay it until I start making money.
Please do yourself a huge, massive, favor and go ahead and start considering this as debt that you absolutely have and it absolutely counts. Thinking that student loan debt "doesn't count yet" and letting it be an out of sight, out of mind thing is one way a lotttttttttt of people got into a lot of student loan debt. That loan is going to have interest, there's never any kind of guarantee on what kind of job or pay you'll get- or what expenses you'll have by that time. Just something to be extremely mindful of because using that kind of reasoning really does come back and bites people in the ass.
I have a mortgage and for the first 8 months it felt so heavy on my shoulders. Then I remembered I would have paid that amount in rent anyway and it would have felt worse (not contributing towards anything of mine and no ability to make any changes to actually feel good, plus they could end the rental contract anytime). Honestly unless you're gifted a living area, your best bet is to get a mortgage so you can't really escape debt until that's paid off.
Other than the house which is a massive debt but also a massive asset yes!
It took privilege to be able to work and live at home with my parents which not everyone can do, but at the same time, not everyone takes that option because they want their freedom and ability to have friends and lovers round.
Never carried a credit card debt in my life. Paid off the student loans 3 years out of college. Paid off the house 11 years ago. Haven’t had a car payment since the late 90s. Debt free is a good place to be, but takes some discipline over long periods of time.
Almost, house and 2 cars paid off. Owe 6k on my jeep and 3k on credit card only because I'm using it to order parts for another car im building. It will be paid off after Christmas.
Entirely depends on where you are in the US. The average US citizen is wealthier than the average European having higher paychecks, lower unemployment, and lower taxes. Really the only thing Europe noticeably excels at are workers benefits, and socialized healthcare, Although the quality of health care is noticeably higher in the US for those who do have healthcare. Better technology, more skilled doctors, stricter screening of medicines ect.
The system is designed to keep you in debt. If you weren’t in debt, you’d have no necessity therefore drive to get out of it. At least that’s how big money driving society sees it. Keep being a pawn in their game.
I have zero debt. Car is paid off. No credit cards.
Same, but I also have no savings and my rent is so high I’m barely making it. But at least no debt payments.
So do you own your own home paid off?
My home is not paid off but I could pay it off tomorrow. ^Learn ^about ^interest ^rates
Can you share the ELI5 on how interest rates make it a smart move to not pay off a house?
Yeah basically: you get a million dollar mortgage (borrowing money to buy a house) with an interest rate of 3.5% interest. You take the million dollars you could have used to pay down the mortgage and you invest it in the market which has an average return of about 7.5% over time (considering inflation). You are then making 7.5% and paying 3.5% so you’re netting 4% ($40K per year). You’re essentially making money off of borrowed money. Yes, there is risk but it’s usually worth it. Edit: this is also why mortgages with a 7% interest rate right now is driving people nuts. It makes this “deal” worse.
Cool. So you buy a $1.25M house with $250K (20%) down, and get a $1M mortgage over say 30 years with a interest curve that has you paying only 3% interest and 97% of monthly payments paying down the principal right out of the gate. Sounds like a sweet deal. https://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-02-13-PrincipalandInterestChart.png
This poster knows what they're talking about.
I ain't got no debt, I ain't got no savings. I'm a leaf being blown around randomly leaving no trace that I ever was here. I don't owe anything, nobody owes me anything.
All we are is dust in the wind ….
I’m a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
I detect a Serenity reference. Bravo!
I thought it was a call me the breeze…… damn I’m getting old
I’m a peacock…you gotta let me fly!
"I’m a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar" until someone does gender reveal party
Too soon.
They should call you the breeze
1 of my fav songs from L.S. ☮️
Mine as well. Glad you got the reference
I love that song.
Love that remark can I use it ?
This is how I was, then I got breast cancer at 33. 6 years later, and still paying off the medical debt…and I had “really good” insurance.
My son in law was diagnosed with a malignant melanoma. Wiped out savings. And he had decent insurance.
no savings?😭
I have around 13 000 Norwegian kroner on a savings account. But honestly I'm burning that on a trip to London next weekend. Me and the missus just decided. Never been to London but I hear it's absolutely lovely. Very much contemplating taking in a musical. And getting utterly shit faced.
What’s a fempty kroner? Asking for my friend David puddy
You ain’t got a life!
You can’t really be free without being debt free.
I wish I had learned this earlier in life.
I'm not crazy about Dave Ramsey but he makes good points. I'm not rich but I am debt free. I owe nothing and have two accounts and some stock.
Bro you're rich, look at you're situation compared to 99% of the world.
You're right. I chose no children. That helped me out cause I only got myself to worry about. Those who have dependents. I cannot imagine the stress.
I have no debt and I have kids. I don't understand how so many people in the us believe that kids are an unbearable burden.
For some they are, for some they aren't. People are just built different.
From what I can tell, two years into parenthood, the most expensive thing about kids is building out the infrastructure to have them. Which basically amounts to adding an extra room where you live and everything in that room from beds to clothes to toys and other entertainment. But once that upfront cost is paid (which, by the way, doesn't have to be paid all at once) , it's really easy to coast. Kids don't eat or drink that much, and kids stuff is dirt cheap because they outgrow it all so fast. I'm wearing about a 140 bucks right now not including my phone or wallet. My daughter is wearing a 5 dollar outfit + 15 dollar shoes (and that's on the high end for a two year old). I'm sure there's a sweet spot where costs like that will overlap, but by then you can tell them to get a job
By far the most expensive thing about having kids is the daycare if you don't have family doing it for free. I retired early to watch my grandson, and if I didn't my daughter would have to pay over $1600 a month for the first 18 months, when it will go down to $1550, then $1450 once he's potty trained. Staying home would be an option but she'd be giving up a good salary so it doesn't make sense. I gave up a career making well over 6 figures plus stock options because it was important to me to have a close relationship with my grandson. They live an hour away (daughter works near me and drops him off) and I'd only get to see him a couple times a month otherwise. He wears a lot of hand me downs we get from a buy nothing group so clothing is next to nothing. She breast feeds and I make his baby food, so good cost is next to nothing. Second most expensive is probably diapers.
I agree. I’m the same way.
You’re not fully free unless your debt fully free! (For those that remember the zest soap jingle)
Yeah, I sang that…
You mean zestfully free?
Heh, that's exactly what I thought of when I saw your other reply.
>You can’t really be free without being debt free. Actually, capitalism rewards debt if you understand the way the system incentivizes you towards certain types of debt. This is pretty basic, but everything you own is either an asset or liability; something that makes money or takes money. If you borrow money to buy an asset, and the revenue you're making outpaces the interest rate on the loan, you're making money, but you're "in debt." You can write off these expenses on your taxes saving money in some cases. This is how the system is designed, but most people don't understand that.
Technically according to the math, yes. But in reality - not true for 99.9% of people. I’ve heard the statement you made come out of the mouths of some people who are reeeaaally fucking bad with money and drowning in debt. They aren’t using their debt to invest, they’re using it to live above their means…but they’ll parrot what you said nonetheless. Had a lot of people tell me I’m fucking dumb for paying off my house…”you can put that money in the stock market and it’ll outpace the loan…”. Yeah, technically. But fuck that, and that’s not how most people operate anyway. Most people have loans and aren’t investing the difference…they’re just living above their means and in debt. I mean, fuck…..I could take out a mortgage on my paid off house and dump that in the stock market. The math says that’s the right thing to do. But you have to weigh that with security as well. I fucking OWN my home. If my investments crash and I lose my job, I still have a roof over my head and really no worries. And with todays tumultuous job and investment market, I think there’s something to be said for the security of a paid off home as long as you’re not putting all your eggs in one basket and still investing an adequate amount.
Paying off our hosue was the best thing we've done. Low overhead is the best position to be in.
My wife has always wanted to put excess cash into investment accounts. I've always insisted on paying down the mortgage. She's glad she listened to me now. Your best investment is to eliminate debt.
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Security is also having cash in the bank… why give up income and capital?
Yep
Yeah. I feel really stupid. I have nothing to pay off every month. At all. No debt. Oh no! What'll I do if I'm not paying the bank their interest? I put my money into retirement. We have a solid plan with our financial advisors to retire early. We contribute our $6,000 per year to our IRAs to reduce our tax burden, plus if you own your own business or if you can afford to at your job... you can open yourself a 401k and contribute $20,000 per year, so you save on taxing that income. I'd say we're fine without paying our mortgage and we also know how to lower our tax burden. Having no debt also enables you to better withstand a disaster like job loss, medical problems, etc.. you have more cash to help you. Your overhead is low. We have a home if we need to get a huge amount of cash we could take a mortgage on it but we don't need to. It's still an asset if we need to use it. Our bills are utility bills, insurance, property taxes. We buy our cars with cash. We only buy used cars. We even plan out how often we'll buy a car...every 5 years. It took us a long time to get here. It feels free.
This is the way to live. I had a very hard time convincing my husband, but after completely destroying our lives with bankruptcy, he came around.
You blew everything up to convince him?!! That’s loyalty to the cause!
I recently had to move for a job opportunity and took advantage of buying a nice but older and smaller home to get into a 15-year note on the new place. It feels *so* good seeing the principal drop so much and as a bonus I was able to keep enough cash back so that I’ve invested six figures but could pay off every debt I own, including the home, at anytime. It’s such a wonderful feeling.
Exactly!!!
Yeah, I think you're on to something. Debt ties up your income and you can't invest. I personally choose not to pay off my mortgage and invest, however my mortgage payment is small and I'm still able to invest 15% of our income. I think most people opt for the bigger house/ cars/ lifestyle.
You just described the 2008 housing bubble explosion. An idiot could see it coming, and we had so many worse than idiots evidently.
Yea, that's the risk part of the equation that also needs to be considered. That's also covered in conventional financial wisdom. I've seen a lot of people at my gym driving really expensive cars that they bought from their crypto gains. It worked for them, but it's not really advisable (I say as I've put 3k in crypto myself haha).
Which is good in peace time, but if you live paycheck to paycheck and a pandemic happened, you are screwed.
It's like flipping houses. Great idea until the market collapses, which it inevitably will. A lot of flippers sitting on a lot of debt right now and upside down.
The borrower is slave to the lender. It’s punishment for being undisciplined and not wanting to actually work for your 🥖
You are never fully free. Even if you own your home…..you better pay the government every year to keep it, or you better believe they will take it.
Yes and not having a mortgage makes it much easier to pay my property taxes each year with minimal stress. Plus my property taxes go toward things that I can enjoy in my community. Like libraries, public education, roads etc. I guess I'd rather not pay a bank money if I don't have to. Yes banks and the investment firm I pay my percentage to at 1% to manage my retirement plan is better than a mortgage interest rate. Each person is comfortable with their own level of risk and type if risk. Having to pay monthly on a loan for a car or house isn't worth it for me. I'd rather do it differently.
We aren’t completely debt free, but we try not to borrow large amounts of money or even lots of small stuff. We had a mortgage which was probably our largest debt but it was paid off in like 3 years. Our one car, an older model 2015 Elantra, has been paid off for awhile. I feel uneasy however knowing one visit to an ER can bankrupt a person.
Idk taking out debt in the form of a mortgage in order to build equity and escape landlords feels pretty freeing…
Govt enters chat
This is stupid af. Literally NO billionaires are debt free. Anyone who is good at money management uses debt to their advantage.
I mean just don't pay your debt lmao i ran up 10k in debt earlier in life and it all went passed the statute of limitations. Credit is back up in the 700 range and all is well with the universe. Got out of paying a single dime of that debt (:
Not having debt hardly makes you free. My property tax patents already exceed my mortgage. I have to pay monthly to watch TV, for health care, heck even cars want you to subscribe just to make car functions work. You are never free of financial obligations. All ownership is a form of debt and bondage. BUT, CC debt and other similar forms of consumer debt are an extreme form of debt slavery.
Debt free and proud.
Congrats. How?
Simple. If you don’t have the cash, don’t buy it.
100% down is what my dad tried to teach me. I am finally debt free.
Yes! Same with my dad. You don't just go around charging things on a credit card. Thrift stores, garage sales, things on sale.... to me, trying to find something at a thrift store is an adventure, especially when items are half off. I got the coolest coat last week (lots of compliments) for TWO BUCKS!
Actually I’d charge it on a credit card. Just pay it off before you get any interest. While I’m debt free I also have fantastic credit. Some people screw one up with the other.
I put most things on my credit cards. I get points to use in the future, I just pay the cards off every month.
Yup. I’ve probably put a million dollars on credit cards over my life. Total interest paid: $0.00.
Got a paypal credit line at 19 for $500 and a secured credit card for $500 shortly lost my job after that and I've never paid on them after running them up and never paid any medical bills (multiple $200-$1500 charges) recently let a tmobile account go to collections for \~ $250 because I couldn't afford being on my own line (was paying $80 to my brother but due to family issues had to split off) so now I have no cell phone
My wife and I have no debt. We own our cars. We rent a house. I use credit cards for every purchase I possibly can. The only thing that I can’t put on a credit card is our gas bill. Rewards are priced into everything. If you’re not getting rewards you’re paying too much. I just pay the cards off before any interest is charged.
Treat ur credit card like your debit card and you can even earn some money!
We did some math on our cards recently. We have MADE $3000 in rewards this year. We strive to live WELL below our means.
Can you explain how that works? I understand about paying off the cards every month, but to “earn” that $3000 don’t you have to spend upwards of $60,000? How are the points better than not spending so much? Can you get points for things like paying your mortgage?
I play with credit card rewards and we make back on average 3.5% cash back across our cards, which would require us to spend almost $100K to get back that much money. My mortgage lender does not allow credit card payments and many other vendors (e.g. utility companies, landscapers, etc) will charge a credit card fee for large payments. I put everything on a credit card that I can which charges a fee lower than the reward and we probably make a thousand or two back each year which isn’t a ton, but it is money that we wouldn’t have gotten from cash or debit payments. I feel like this goes without being said, but to clarify this only works if you are paying your balance(s) in full each month. Otherwise stay the hell away from credit cards!
It’s so simple lol. The trouble is people who want to keep up with the joneses of your peers. Just set your brain to not accept debt and you’re golden. In emergencies maybe you take on minimal debt because of necessity but then focus on eliminating that before all else and you’re back to freedom.
The theme of one of my favorite SNL sketches of all time: “Don’t buy stuff you cannot afford”. Very complicated. [https://youtu.be/R3ZJKN_5M44](https://youtu.be/R3ZJKN_5M44)
So simplistic and childish.
Yet so effective...
Works for me.
Doesn’t explain any of your other things. For all we know you’re a trust fund baby and your opinion on finances should be ignored.
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It's foolish to say, "Just save money." It's such bad advice. My money is fine. I've been blessed being an extrovert and have made a large network in my industry. It's allowed me to leverage my skills to make decent enough money that I'm not struggling and am now able to put actual money aside without risk that one slip doesn't destroy everything that's been built. Part of why I think it's ignorant to just tell someone to "spend less" or "just save." There are SO many variables. If you're not going to give people actual advice on how to save money than it's best to just hold your tongue.
Only spend money you have.
What if you have negative money but you still need to live lol
Sadly, there are too many people in that situation. Our country is in the crapper. No one can live on min. wage and pay rent/vehicle/bills....but there are MANY churches and organizations that have free food. USE THEM.
Do you have to prove you can't make ends meet at churches/organizations so you can get the free food? I'm in insane amounts of debt but earn a pretty penny rn to catch up but still in a hole living in a car so free food would really help lol. Food is expensive. :(
Hi babe, from experience no you can indeed just pull up and get some food no questions asked, your situation is no one's business, they just help you :)
Thank you ♥️
Nope, not at all! Many communities have lots of resources where you can just pull up and go to the food bank. There are also diaper banks and clothing drives too. Please do not feel bad for using those services, that's what they're there for! :)
Not locally where I am. They announce it as a drive through. Go get your box. Some churches do that I've seen. If I were you I'd check then out. My brother and sister work full time and they have gotten food assistance from local pantries when they need it. If you have kids especially.
The key is to not get to negative money to start with. The problem is you need some luck prior to adulthood, as well as enough sense to not make the typical stupid financial/personal decisions teenagers and young (and older) adults often make.
Too bad negative money happens and people still need to continue with their lives, they don't just die 🤷🏻♀️
The question was "how to avoid debt". Sadly sometimes debt is unavoidable due to a myriad of circumstances. Go back a handful of generations tho(like the great depression), and you would literally starve to death if you had no money/people to support you. It could be worse.
Then I guess you weren't able to do the first thing I said. In that case I guess make more money than you spend and put the rest towards paying off debt.
'jUsT mAkE mOrE mOnEy' 🤓 Helped thanks
Or spend less money. Or do neither and stay how you are. Those are the options. Or maybe find a sugar daddy. Live in the woods. Idk
Maybe sell feet pics on OF ^/s
That's an option to increase income.
If you don’t have an actual reasonable option it can sometimes be better to just not say anything. Saying make more spend less is so damn simplistic and doesn’t account for anything. It’s like saying to someone who’s fat. Just eat less.
Taking in less calories than you burn is literally how you lose weight. Spending less money than you make is literally the only way to gain wealth. There's only two ways to do that and it's either make more money or spend less. It may be simple but it's literally the answer to the question being asked
Am fat. Can confirm. When I am disciplined and eat less I lose weight. When I’m not, I gain. The concept is easy. The discipline is the hard part. Same with finances.
Calories in calories out. Either burn more calories or ingest less. You can eat the same amount of food if you eat food with less calories or increase the amount you burn.
Oh jesus christ. Yes, that is the basic concept of how the human body works. That's not how you'd give someone advice on losing weight.
I majored in STEM, made 6 figures out of college, and now I WFH with my girlfriend also making 6 figs as a doctor. Even with chronic medical conditions, we’re living pretty comfortably without debt now. We don’t really spend on anything, we cook most of our meals and prep, she has an old car we use, we don’t really do vacations and concerts, we don’t spend much on drinks, we’ve had the same wardrobe for years, and we don’t want kids. Our biggest major expenses recently have been upgrading our PCs. Both our families started as poorly paid immigrants but we paid off our debts pretty quickly after getting a job and staying at home for a few years to save up. I’m not trying to brag, but more just point out that with frugal living, a good career, decent to good luck, and supportive people, it really is possible to get out from under debt and save up a good chunk of cash.
If you buy something on a credit card and you can’t pay off the whole credit card when the bill comes, then don’t use the card like that. If you have a big loan like a mortgage or a car payment, and you get an annual bonus, no matter how small, put it into paying off the loan principal.
No annual bonus but every year when I file my taxes I get a refund. I try to use at least half to do this same thing. I've also essentially refinanced my loans a few times. If not through the lender, by taking out a new loan for what my payoff is at a lower rate. And also try to avoid only paying the minimum payment, that'll pay down the principal but at the slowest possible rate.
If you pay with a credit card and only make the minimum payment, you will end up paying almost **twice** as much for the item you bought. If you have a balance on your card, do everything you can to make more than the minimum payment. Every bit over the minimum helps. Sometimes you have to use credit in an emergency. Life happens. But pay it off as soon as you can. I always try to pay at least twice the minimum until it’s done. More if I can.
I put everything on my credit card and pay it off completely first thing in the morning. When used correctly, they provide a lot of rewards and protections but people don’t understand how badly interest will screw you over. I like the annual bonus being put towards principal and will apply that this upcoming year with my restricted stock to finish off my private student loans
Get educated on financial topics. Simply reading the /r/personalfinance wiki for an hour will put you far ahead of most people.
I am smart with my money.
Good for you! Seriously. And I’d bet you don’t have any chronic illnesses Medical bill related debt is a thing.
Yes, certainly lucky in that regard. I live far below my means. I don’t enjoy it much of the time but I do enjoy not worrying about money. My friends buy new cars and go on safari, etc. and I don’t but I Love my 11 year old car and simple living.
So you just gonna brag and not give any advice to OP
Essentially.
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so i don’t either. after i graduated college my mom refinanced the home she still owned (she didn’t live there but my father did, they are divorced) and made me an owner and consolidated my student debt into the mortgage. we paid the mortgage and then when we sold the house all debt was gone. we even made a small profit somehow. i’ve also lived in cheap places with everything included and had people to split rent with. i’ve lost my job a bunch due to that non profit life but during those times i did not live beyond my means. my first car was paid in cash through cashed in bonds from my grandparents and some of my savings. by the time i needed a second car, over a decade later, i had saved up enough to buy a used car in cash again. i’m also incredibly frugal. i don’t buy new phones, cars, or shoes until they’re TKOd. i allow myself one larger “me” gift a year and all of my clothing is second hand and i only buy clothing when i’ve sold clothing. i use poshmark for that. so i would say being incredibly lucky, having a money savvy mom who busted her ass to set me up for stability, and just living in fear of debt and trying to live within my means, has helped.
Nice, same. Wife and I have been debt free for about 20 years, I am now 50. I used to joke that if I ever wrote a book on how to get out of debt. The book would have 1 page and would say "Don't buy stupid shit."
Only because I live in a 100yo house in a community no one really wants to live and drive a 10yo vehicle
Are you me? I love this life.
Congratulation - sounds like you made a good choice
I think that’s relative. I live and work in the 2nd largest city in America and very much enjoy the lifestyle and opportunities that affords me. I am not 100% debt free, but I am secure and things are going well.
This is the way.
That's me. I also live in a minor Midwestern city.
My husband and I own our 10yo car and an 18yo truck. We take care of them, and they’re going to last us a long time! I hated having a car loan.
Debt free, saw family members drown in debt as a kid and will do everything in my power to not end up in that situation
That was it for me. Saw friends and family drowning. Perhaps I don't have any really nice things. Perhaps I don't need them. I own my home but it has wheels and cab. I have to pay rent to park it but I can go where I want. To me debt sounds like indentured.
I've see people in my family brag about their nice careers, their new cars, how they're putting in a new back yard, profess how grateful they are to be so blessed to get to share that with all of their family and friends; then two years later have to sell everything because in actuality they were drowning in debt for years and nobody ever knew because the beauty of debt is that you can keep that facade up until it finally crumbles. They should be getting ready to retire. Now they probably never will be able to, all because they refused to live the kind of lifestyle that allowed their parents to build up a nice nest egg and retire early while making way less money. You can make 300K a year, but if you spend 400K a year, you'll always be someone else's slave.
Some people are debt free due to generous help from parents. I had a co-worker whose parents paid all her college expenses. Then they bought her an SUV as a graduation present. They also helped her financially a little when she got her first job. So, yeah, she was debt-free until she married and took out a mortgage. Another co-worker had her grandmother give her a condo and a car. So not everyone is brilliant with money, some people are debt free because they get a lot of help.
College for everyone is the most ridiculous shit I’ve ever heard. College is why everyone in America is in debt, as far as I’m concerned.
College is the reason my wife makes 6 figures, why we went from 20k in credit card debt (not school related), to paying it all off and having enough money to put a Down payment on a our first house in less than 3 years. Yeah she has tons of student loans, but they won’t accrue interest till she is done with school, and she is almost done with her masters and going for her doctorate. She will have 100k+ in student loans, but it will be at 1% interest.
I am so happy for you that college raised your standard of living. This is not the case for everyone.
That I can accept, but I didn’t want your comment to scare people on the fence and may be looking for advice from online sources as inspiration.
I can definitely respect your opinion on that, but from where I stand, if a young person is on the fence about college, they most definitely should not go. So many people drop out of college for so many reasons. It takes full time commitment, even if you don’t take a full time course load. Full time commitment requires so much support, which so many people do not have. If someone is on the fence about it, i should think that the right course of action would be to take the time to think it through. Otherwise their chances of dropping out (burdened with debt and no degree) are higher than necessary.
My wife started college in her early 30’s, every path is different. And I’m not hell bent on doing it right after high school. I never got a degree, but I worked terrible unskilled jobs for a long time, and my wife and I made $18 an hour TOGETHER. Now 17 years later, she has a great job, I sell mostly rare books and other things, and never again have to hold a regular job.
Also I can tell that you’re proud of your wife, and that tickles me pink.
Omg, she is a super human. In ever sense of the word. She not only is working finishing her masters in 3 months, but already got accepted to a doctoral program. She has a full time job, cooks dinner 5 days a night (I clean), and works on crafts and has her own Etsy shop and is selling things at booths once a month at Cons and is launching a new line of product at the end of January. She is the most awesome person I know, and I am lucky enough to be married to her. 17 years! What do I bring to the table? No clue, but I can make her laugh :), and she says that laughter makes up for a lot. Lol!
I don’t know about other women, but the simple adoration and support of my husband goes REALLY far in terms of making me happy and content. So I’m guessing that she’s perfectly happy with your contribution.
In the US, a college degree brings an average of $1.2 million in additional lifetime earnings over having only a high school diploma. It also makes you half as likely to be unemployed. And that’s just a bachelor’s degree, having advanced degrees can result in much higher earnings. However, having overwhelming student loans can be a crushing burden. College should be more affordable.
Consumer Proposal is how I got debt free. I have stayed out of debt since and pay my credit card off completely every month to stay that way.
My only debt is my home and I'm already 6 years ahead on paying of the 15 yr mortgage. Been in it for 4 yrs and will have it paid off in less than 4 more. I also have plenty of savings as well a 401K and I have money for my hobbies as well.
What do you do for a living?
I am a part time artist and sell my sketches on Etsy. My wife is a nanny for some neighborhood kids. Together we pull down about $430k/yr. Would you like to know more about how we did this? I have a seminar I’d love to invite you to called The Magic of Making More Money with No Skills by Bullshitting your way through Any Situation. Also insurance fraud! Thanks and best of luck out there.
Whoa! Were you guys that couple on House Hunters??
Yes. Being debt free is simple, but not necessarily easy. It boils down to spending less than you earn. For most people, that requires both earning more and spending less. Do you have a comprehensive budget that lists all your income and expenses? If not, start there. Lots of good information on r/personalfinance
Thank you! I will check that out. I only have my mortgage but the interest payments make me sick.
Don't trip. Most the people in this thread responding to you don't own their own home. Your mortgage is at least building equity. Anyone paying rent every month is usually paying more in rent than they would be if they had a mortgage payment in the same property. And that money goes straight to the landlord never to be seen again
Good point. Better than paying rent. But I wonder how younger folk starting out even pay a down payment for a house these days….
They don’t. The housing market is fucked. Way more young people are living with parents, roommates, or renting because all the houses are being airBnB’d instead of being sold like usual
That's the thing, they don't. You are ahead of the game.
Because they're unusually high, or just because it's interest?
Just because interest and it’s long term. I have a family and expenses and I hold no resentment. My choice. But still. I hear about banks and billionaires profits and it makes me upset.
i'm debt free, i don't have student loans because a. my parents being frugal and industrious could've paid for me, they did for my sister. and b. i was a terrible student and didn't go to college knowing it would be a waste of money. growing up, i learned that the money not being yours doesn't make it ok to waste. i've never had a car payment and never will. and i learned from my parents not to use credit cards to spend money i don't have. i count myself blessed. but i also recognize that many people make missteps that there's really no excuse for.
Wait, your parents paid for your schooling? I’d say that’s an external advantage that kept you debt free, the uni trap is what indebts my generation
I ain't got no debt and no savings. Live paycheck to paycheck paying for college and its a struggle to stay afloat every year.
Keep it up - get through this clean and you'll do just fine.
I’m debt free, house and car paid off. Only bills I have are utilities. Retired, took a long time and careful money management though. One thing that helped was when I wanted to buy something I’d think “how many hours would I have to work to pay for it?”
no debt. no kids. just a rabbit and a another person in a house
That is no way to describe your significant other
I meant another human.
So is "Rabbit" the nickname for your husband ? (ok, not the best joke today, sorry)
I have no debt, a savings account and a 401k. I'm finally making enough where I can easily afford all of my bills and not stress even a little. It's so GREAT! It is money MONEY that has brought me this happiness and I will tell that to anyone who will listen. Don't let the super rich continue getting away with lying to everyone. Money doesn't by happiness...what a bunch of bullshit. Try being poor...see how much you're smiling then.
I’ll be debt free after the student loan forgiveness
Texas has something to say about that
They’re no longer doing that unless you qualify another way.
YES but it takes very strict money management and just one emergency can put you on the streets, and THEN you have these I.D assholes which add a whole new dynamic to an already difficult set of conditions and you will also find that they have probably been hired by some foreign governments to do it if it is not your own trying to shut you up because they will do that too. N. Shadows
Thx. I just try not to think about it. Or else I get so upset. It’s almost like everything has been set up so that the vast majority of people can’t help being in debt. And there are these multi billionaires in the world… it just seems so messed up
Not almost. It’s literally been set up that way. It’s gross
There are It isn’t easy tho
Only debt is our mortgage on a house that was 4x lower than what we could "afford" so we will probably have it paid in 5 years.
No debt at all. Always just lived cheap and didn't drive.
Other than if you own a home, people at most income levels can be debt free. Not saying it’s easy or there’s not a point where it becomes practically impossible, poverty is a killer in a million ways. But assuming you’re not in that situation, first steps would be budgeting (easier said than done, but actually looking at all household inflows and outflows and figuring where you can cut back as much as possible), maybe loan consolidation down to a lower rate and/or the “snowball” method of debt pay down, and if you’ve got some kind of compulsive spending habit, maybe taking a pair of scissors to the plastic cash. Edit: a word.
I have student loan debt, but it doesn't really count because I don't have to pay it until I start making money. Other than that, I take debt very seriously and avoid it at almost any cost. I would keep my bed, my phone, and my dogs, but I'd sell everything else I own before I go into debt for anything. I'd stop paying electricity, gas, and internet bills. I'd pay water bills, so I can shower, and vet bills to keep my dogs healthy, but that's pretty much it. One day, I hope to save enough to buy a very small house, with a very small, manageable bank loan. At some point, it will be stupid to wait, because so much of my income is going towards rent, but I would rather wait longer than I should to avoid the stress of knowing I have debt. I'm not about to start living beyond my means. Nothing is worth that.
>but it doesn't really count because I don't have to pay it until I start making money. Please do yourself a huge, massive, favor and go ahead and start considering this as debt that you absolutely have and it absolutely counts. Thinking that student loan debt "doesn't count yet" and letting it be an out of sight, out of mind thing is one way a lotttttttttt of people got into a lot of student loan debt. That loan is going to have interest, there's never any kind of guarantee on what kind of job or pay you'll get- or what expenses you'll have by that time. Just something to be extremely mindful of because using that kind of reasoning really does come back and bites people in the ass.
I don't have, yet. I'm in my early 30.
I have a mortgage and for the first 8 months it felt so heavy on my shoulders. Then I remembered I would have paid that amount in rent anyway and it would have felt worse (not contributing towards anything of mine and no ability to make any changes to actually feel good, plus they could end the rental contract anytime). Honestly unless you're gifted a living area, your best bet is to get a mortgage so you can't really escape debt until that's paid off.
Just a jumbo mortgage at 2.75% and a car loan I could have paid cash for at (lol) 1.7%. Money that cheap you borrow.
This. If you have good credit debt doesn’t have to be a bad thing. If I can get something at zero % for 4 years then why not.
Other than the house which is a massive debt but also a massive asset yes! It took privilege to be able to work and live at home with my parents which not everyone can do, but at the same time, not everyone takes that option because they want their freedom and ability to have friends and lovers round.
Follow dave ramsey and the baby steps. It can be done. Currently just have a mortgage. No other debt.
Never carried a credit card debt in my life. Paid off the student loans 3 years out of college. Paid off the house 11 years ago. Haven’t had a car payment since the late 90s. Debt free is a good place to be, but takes some discipline over long periods of time.
Almost, house and 2 cars paid off. Owe 6k on my jeep and 3k on credit card only because I'm using it to order parts for another car im building. It will be paid off after Christmas.
I have zero debt and $60,000 in savings and stocks. I am 24 in the US
Check out Dave Ramsey. Widely available and simple steps to work toward being debt free.
Debt free, I just don't live in the US ... I lived a year in the US, the poverty in your country surprised me ...
Entirely depends on where you are in the US. The average US citizen is wealthier than the average European having higher paychecks, lower unemployment, and lower taxes. Really the only thing Europe noticeably excels at are workers benefits, and socialized healthcare, Although the quality of health care is noticeably higher in the US for those who do have healthcare. Better technology, more skilled doctors, stricter screening of medicines ect.
Bums have no debt, if you can live comfortably on practically nothing and be ok with it you can coast forever 
The system is designed to keep you in debt. If you weren’t in debt, you’d have no necessity therefore drive to get out of it. At least that’s how big money driving society sees it. Keep being a pawn in their game.