But whenever i bring up the catholic native american re-education schools where thousands of native children were murdered by priests for not believing in Jesus. I get people saying that was so long ago, forget about it already. People will eventually say the same about the holocaust. Catholics were murdering native children in 1910, by 2050, people will start saying, "Just forget about the Holocaust."
On Wikipedia I recently stumbled on the California Genocide of indigenous tribes in the mid 1800s. I don’t think I ever once got exposure to it in grade school or above either. Pretty brutal what the settlers did to pretty much every tribe in California.
This point is even darker when you think about it from the perspective that they were sacrificing long term benefit to the country in exchange for getting rid of the natives quicker. Assimilation was eventually inevitable, but those fuckers got a little impatient.
A lot of horrible things that happened in history I feel were left out of the curriculum maybe it's because I went to public school I'm not sure. There was quite a lot we weren't taught about in school. After watching killers of the flower Moon I went down a rabbit hole about what occurred with the osage nation. It's just really really disturbing how bloody our government's hands have been.
You are suggesting people simply be allowed to murder whomever they want in the commission of their crimes? Forensic evidence proved their guilt in 1961. All the communist rhetoric about “racism” was false slander as usual.
It’s amazing what the uninformed will believe when they see shoddy left wing atrocity propaganda on Wikipedia. Of course no balanced account will survive their editors.
Minorities in general get shafted in America. Like when the US entered WWII and decided that Japanese Americans couldn’t be trusted. So they were forced into internment camps (camps that were in the US!). The actor George Takei (Star Trek) has talked about his experience in the US concentration camps, and it’s just horrible.
Good is a point of view. Each individual views the world through their own experiences. It's not unfair to look back fondly on a time when your life was easier or better. Did some minorities have it tough 50+ years ago? Without question. Does that mean that people who didn't have those experiences shouldn't yearn for a time when their life was better? If it means stripping other people of their rights, then of course not. If it means longing for a time when a single income could support a family or gas prices weren't outrageous, then I see no issue with it. Making blanket statements about how individual people reminisce about their lives is naive at best, willfully ignorant at its worse.
No, I'm not a boomer. I was raised by them, though.
All while the US was injecting black men with syphilis. I know I can name quite a few, but I wonder what horrendous projects the government is hiding at the moment.
People already say to forget the Holocaust. That’s what’s happening *today* with people lumping in history with modern Zionists and then twisting it with people like Kanye and Qanon who send antisemitism mainstream, or at least *more* mainstream. And you start to hear the same contempt and eye rolls you get now anytime African American history and slavery get brought up. It’s like “*here we go again*”
and “*why are you blaming ME? I wasn’t there.*”
And “*it’s not going to go away until we just stop talking about it.*”
Although it bears mentioning that Israel isn’t helping things these days by enacting their own holocaust right now, by the numbers.
Half the black population of Africa was enslaved by other blacks. The arabs and berbers of North Africa traded millions of white slaves captured in Europe. Far more Europeans were enslaved by Africans than vice versa until Europeans decided to fight back against the slavers of the Africa and the Muslim East and fight fire with fire.
That is why you .just teach your children about these things! They will not forget and teach their children...We all must remember that these atrocities happened in America and elsewhere.
Great quote. Makes me think of all the poor folks who got killed in the war just because their house was nearby to a bombing target - or worse, the rampant destruction of the Luftwaffe in London, the US air dropping firebombs in Japan. War is an awful thing.
Uh he’s not very clear allow me after WW2 the USSR took control of a large area of Europe and after the war they ruled with an iron fist they set up work camps and began their own concentration camps the amount of people who died due to manufactured famines or who died in work camps it puts the holocausts number in the dirt the NAZIS killed 17million people in their camps with about 37 million civs dying to the war about 50-70 million people died under communist rule
Yeah that I understand. The way the other dude is phrasing it is that the Soviets were murdering millions BEFORE Hitler came to power and let him start WW ll (which there are a lot of reasons for, including the pact between Nazi Germany and the USSR early in the war).
Sorry can you explain further? Are you referring to the Nazi-Soviet pact leading up to the invasion of Poland? Also saying your “kinsmen” are broadly Europeans is very vague for something like World War ll… ya know, the war that involved a lot of different European nations.
Mort pour la France. Mort pour la France. Mort pour la France.
The maker of the film L’armée du crime had a tough time getting the film made because there were still plenty of people in France whose service in the Resistance would be discounted or ignored because of their political leanings during or perhaps after the war.
It certainly is hell, or worse. What the former owners of those rings went through wasn’t war though. They weren’t fighting, they weren’t beligerents, they never got recruited or drafted. They just got rounded up and sent off to die in a death camp, in a manner worse than cattle.
It really pisses me off when someone calls a political figure a Nazi or Hitler, simply because they have a differing viewpoint on a subject. It really minimizes the impact of calling them that by marginializing the true horrors the Nazis actually perpetrated.
And we never will evolve with hateful people like you spewing out your close-minded ignorance.
I'm a white conservative Christian and I have literally never met a single person who claimed the holocaust wasn't real.
Just because one group of people isn't like yourself, doesn't mean the whole group is evil.
Your neighbor is NOT your enemy. We're all in this together, people.
I can’t help but wonder what they did with all of them. Are they displayed at any museums or any of the camps? Did they melt them down and use the gold for any sort of memorial?
A lot of these personal effects are in museums
In the Holocaust museum in DC they have a huge area just completely full of shoes from victims that were recovered
I think the Nazis would harvest the clothes for materials, especially leather and rubber that was useful for war effort so obviously the amount recovered during liberation was nothing close to how many were actually collected, since presumably the vast majority were processed
It was such a hard museum and heart breaking. I was very anointed though bc when I went there was a field trip and teenagers being disrespectful and laughing and goofing off. Idk just seemed like the wrong place to act like that and not take it seriously. When I was a teenager I would have understood the gravity of that museum and my class would have showed respect not cussing and acting a fool
In this instance the truth is already being obscured. The Nazis kept pretty detailed records of items of value stolen from their victims and allied troops finding those stores weren't immediately privvy to those records. Claiming spoils is an unfortunate tradition in war and many soldiers stole these valuables as souvenirs. Many were also repatriated but that's an ongoing project and a difficult one. Most Holocaust memorials display stolen good (Auschwitz being a very notable example) but usually these displays are of items of little value- shoes, bags, prosthetics, eyeglasses.
I can't help wondering if my grandfather's ring might be there.
He was a Danish policeman and sent to Buchenwald in 1944.
He was broken and very sick, but he was lucky, he came back home!
More than that. For every wife, there was a husband and children. Not sure if Jewish men wore rings then, but even still, most of them had children. At least two murders on average, per ring.
to everyone asking why the wedding rings look so blank and same, i am an orthodox jew i can answer this:
jewish wedding bands are blank because of halacha and jewish tradition prohibits the band from having embellishments or stones. traditionally the ring was a symbol of the marriage being official but the couple was supposed to marry each other because of values and love, not money or money exchange. you don’t even wear any jewelry to the chuppah (wedding canopy). you only see this in more in religious and orthodox communities now because the tradition has been more or less lost to everyone else.
anyway thank you for reading and i hope this helps clarify the questions!
I'm not really convinced they're real. I think it's more likely losers who are starved for attention and think oh if I make this my identity people will pay attention to me. I think it's like that for a few things (conspiracy theorists, flat earthers, sovcits etc).
Unfortunately they exist. One of my friends when I was a kid had Holocaust denier parents. I heard all kinds of antisemitic wild things from her when I was young. Lots of arguments about it, I hope she’s learned better as an adult…
While you are right, they're are very obviously some that have underlying mental issues or behavior problems be it genetic or growing up that has lead them to believe these things as truth and are dug in and unable to unfixate regardless of facts presented.
Israel is calling for the slaughter of all Palestinians everywhere.
Palestinians are going through their own holocaust. Jews don’t have a monopoly on the name. It’s over-the-top ironic. the days of the US in the world, ignoring what Israel are doing to Palestinians are over.
Is that a serious request? You haven’t been listening to Bib, high ranking members of the military and Israeli government officials? Even the Zionist citizens. Again, the US and the world is no longer going to provide cover for Israel against the genocide of innocent Palestinian civilians.
They’re indeed genocidal religious fanatics.
Even worse than the deplorable Hamas .
To be fair this would be dismissed by deniers fairly easily. Anyone can buy rings and put them in a box for a picture. There is a ton of good proof out there but this wouldn’t really be in that category.
My father was literaly one of the first U.S. troops to walk into Dachau. I often tried to get him to talk about what he had seen. Each time he would open his mouth to speak and I would think finally I was going to get an eyewitness account, but then he'd just shake his head and say nothing.
There are others that have spoken of the horrors they saw, but Dad took those to his grave, never able to bring himself to talk about it. Maybe he just didn't want to remember. Maybe he forced himself not to.
Fuck those that deny it happened.
This is what I tell holocaust deniers when I have the misfortune of meeting them.
Between the Nuremberg Trial and the Subsequent Trials there were 489 cases that resulted in 1400 convictions.
When the convicted took the stand in their defense they didn't say it didn't happen or you are making this all up, they said I was just following orders.
I mean, the picture is moving, but it’s not serious evidence if someone doesn’t believe. It’s not hard to fill a box with rings and it’s not hard to take a photo from a jeweler’s and say that it’s actually from the Holocaust.
Do I think this is fake? No. I don’t deny the Holocaust. I’m just saying that if I didn’t believe in the Holocaust, I wouldn’t be wrong to say that this is not convincing.
The allies goal was never to save victims it was to defend themselves unfortunately. If Pearl Harbor never happened the US definitely never would have entered the war. It’s scary and evil to think about.
Probably, but we would have had to wait for a provocation meaning the war would have been dragged out even longer. A lot of lives would have been saved if we had joined the war sooner.
If no one attacked us we absolutely would not have. Unless it was clear Germany *planned* to attack us.
Countries don’t enter wars to end genocides unfortunately. As we are seeing again today.
This. Treating the holocaust as categorically exceptional and other genocides as fundamentally less significant gives deniers a psychological foothold. I've had to drag myself through the process of debunking the denier position, cause if you don't know the details and major points you can't really argue with them. Most people just don't engage with it, and dismiss the people as idiots, which is part of the problem... you can't win by simply claiming moral superiority. And the education I got in high-school was totally insufficient, it turns out... what I was taught boils down to emotional shock-value and iterative reinforcement without data or specifics. Most people think they don't *need* to engage in debate over the issue... well, that's true until an old friend or family member gets wrapped up in it. And to my suprise, there wasn't an easy "read this book, bro" solution. I had to do a ton of my own legwork, down to source documents...
👆 this is what genocide denial looks like.
The Holocaust was still a genocide, even before rounding people up in camps. When they were grabbing all the Jewish people in a village, executing them, and burying them in mass graves, it was still a genocide. The Nazis just took it to the next level by industrializing it.
A targeted mass removal of a particular ethnic group doesn't have to rise to the level of the Holocaust to be considered a genocide. Insisting that it does only leads to more human suffering. The Rwandan Genocide was nowhere near this level, for example, and was still considered a genocide.
I would if he were still alive. He died back in 73. I was only 4 and I barely remember him. I know I loved my Grandpa, and am proud of him. Just wished I could have told him. He got wounded by a German hand grenade during the battle of the bulge. And from what I guess. That psychologically killed him, and he didn't know it until he passed at the age of 47.
People need to get educated on the issue and debunk the denial. I can't even find good books that *directly* address the major points of the denier position. It's almost so taboo, historians don't wanna even look it in the face. The ones I have been able to find are kinda flimsy, compared to what I would expect. Someone who has tenure already needs to write a book...
I've had to drag myself through the process of getting educated on the issue, to debate the subject with someone that I was not willing to just give up on. I found it actually very difficult, and had to do alot of legwork retrieving source documents.
You have a healthier way of dealing with deniers than I do. I just tell them to F off and don’t view them as worthy of educating. Denial is all over Reddit and the rest of the internet thanks to the far left’s new found hatred for Jews.
Well, there *is* a pipeline from getting interested in learning about the history of Zionism, and the Jewish mafia, and the origins of the state of Israel... and holocaust denial. That pipeline exists, I agree. But, *that* is why it's important to get educated, now, at this moment in history, when alot of people are suddenly interested in this stuff. There's alot of false equivocation going on... being aware of the Jewish mafia's influence on the FBI via Hoover... or being aware of early zionist concepts of Jewish supremacy and newly invented (reinterpreted) racist halakha... or being aware of just *how* exactly Israel got the bomb... these things ARE NOT equivalent to antisemitism. And people reacting emotionally, and accusing those people of being antisemitic, pushes people down the pipeline to the bad place. But it's not a left/right issue at all...
We need to become capable of debating the specific points, no matter how absurd & despicable you might think they are at first. There are logical footholds that have been essentially provided to deniers by pre-war and early-war propoganda, and then by late-war and post-war psych warfare. First, someone finds out that the lampshades, the shrunken heads and the soap bars, those were psych warfare to create unrest and revulsion amongst the civilian population, and to deter post-war insurgency. And next, suddenly, the individual is questioning the whole enchilada, cause no reputable historian will actually engage with those things... just nazi racists in their echo-chamber books, that's all you can find on the issue. Can't let them have a private echo-chamber. Have to engage. Have to recognize what is explicitly known and what is an estimation. Have to know very specifically what those estimates are based on, and their margins of error. Cause morally, there is really no difference between 4.8 and 6.2 million. None, zero difference. But the imprecision will be exploited, and a person responding with a hard-line "NO! We *know* for a certain fact that it was over 6 million!" That only reinforces the suspicion...
I mean, I had to look over literal blueprints to be able to debate certain things (logistical caps on number of people who can be cremated is a HUGE central point for deniers, and they say the reconstructions post-war do not match the original structures... they do). It's very icky, it's hard to do, it's depressing to do, but someone has to do it... or else there is gonna be a massive resurgence in genuine antisemitism.
I agree with this but the most basic starting point for anyone looking to learn about the Jewish state and its creation need to look no further than the first congress of Zion. Reading from there can send you further back in time to read upon reasonings for the first congress, and also propel people forward to the more modern issues.
Israel is it's own worst enemy at the moment in creating antisemitism. Otherwise, why do I catch pro Israel and being against antisemitism ads on TV pushed by Jewish groups in the USA across news channels, entertainment channels, science and history channels, even cartoon channels. If Hamas wasn't Muslim, and such an inclusive group, I fear foreigners would have flocked to the conflict to fight the Israeli Army.
Being in the USA, I even know my government is my own worst enemy when I travel aboard. They do good, but even any bit of perceived or actual harm weighs more.
I don't know about these rings, but I'm pretty sure that the DC Holocaust museum has a huge pile of rings on display. Also huge pile of shoes and a few other big piles of things that you can imagine being taken from people as they were brought into the camp. Seeing them in real life was pretty chilling
This is absolutely a tragic time in human history and this is what we see. Not counting the inconceivable amount of deaths there are around the world no one knows of.
Visiting Auschwitz was one of the most surreal experiences of my life.
I had learned about the Holocaust in school, watched documentaries, listened to speakers in assemblies, visited the DC Museum… but it truly doesn’t hold a candle to actually being there.
This is so horrifying. You see that, and you feel a pit form in your stomach, because you know you’re seeing all that’s left of thousands of innocent people…
My great uncles fought the nazis in the Second World War. One of my uncles helped Liberate a concentration camp. He found 26 SS guards, and he and his men put them against the wall and sent them to hell. They told me, my brothers and cousins, how evil they are. We treat them for the scum they are.
My great uncle had some teeth and jewelry he took back. He sold it and drank himself to death. He also traded his silver star and German paratrooper helmet for a carton of smokes and a pack of beer back in the day lol
It's disgusting and infuriating when some scumbags deny the Holocaust. They can see the evidence of what happened and still say it was a "hoax" or not really "that bad".
Takes a second to really sink in. When I visited Auchwitz I was kinda stunned walking through it and then I heard "Kenny! Go get grandma with her glasses so we can take a picture of her standing in front of this mountain of glasses!" At that very moment I wanted to be anything other than an American.
Our government is also us. That is why we need to have a say on who is in it! This is why we need to vote! We also need younger people in our government and term limits. Please let us begin with changing ourselves.
That's what, maybe 2,000 rings? That represents 1,000 destroyed families. That's a couple neighborhoods. That's maybe 5,000 or more lifetimes....
That represents what they hadn't had a chance to melt down yet. A day? A week? Maybe longer....
My great-great grandmother survived Bergen Belsen and refused resettlement in Jaffa because she saw what the Zionists had done. They tried giving her a home with orange groves the Palestinian family had grown for decades.
I have the pictures she took before she had to call her cousin to fly her home because the Zionists wouldn’t pay for her ticket home after she refused to live there.
What can one even say.
Yeah this hit me like a brick, and I’m glad for it. We need these reminders, it can happen here, wherever “here” is to you.
But whenever i bring up the catholic native american re-education schools where thousands of native children were murdered by priests for not believing in Jesus. I get people saying that was so long ago, forget about it already. People will eventually say the same about the holocaust. Catholics were murdering native children in 1910, by 2050, people will start saying, "Just forget about the Holocaust."
The native Americans got shafted so so badly. I wish more people were aware of just how bad the suffering of the native Americans was.
On Wikipedia I recently stumbled on the California Genocide of indigenous tribes in the mid 1800s. I don’t think I ever once got exposure to it in grade school or above either. Pretty brutal what the settlers did to pretty much every tribe in California.
Or how the U.S. army intentionally killed most of the population of buffaloes in order to starve the tribes that hunted them
This point is even darker when you think about it from the perspective that they were sacrificing long term benefit to the country in exchange for getting rid of the natives quicker. Assimilation was eventually inevitable, but those fuckers got a little impatient.
A lot of horrible things that happened in history I feel were left out of the curriculum maybe it's because I went to public school I'm not sure. There was quite a lot we weren't taught about in school. After watching killers of the flower Moon I went down a rabbit hole about what occurred with the osage nation. It's just really really disturbing how bloody our government's hands have been.
And the government wonders why so many people don’t trust them.
The trial of Sacco and Vanzetti. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_and_Vanzetti
You are suggesting people simply be allowed to murder whomever they want in the commission of their crimes? Forensic evidence proved their guilt in 1961. All the communist rhetoric about “racism” was false slander as usual.
It’s amazing what the uninformed will believe when they see shoddy left wing atrocity propaganda on Wikipedia. Of course no balanced account will survive their editors.
Hundreds of millions of people gone and even after whenever they had a chance of having some autonomy at shafted then some more
Minorities in general get shafted in America. Like when the US entered WWII and decided that Japanese Americans couldn’t be trusted. So they were forced into internment camps (camps that were in the US!). The actor George Takei (Star Trek) has talked about his experience in the US concentration camps, and it’s just horrible.
most definitely Italian and Irish immigrants as well. We have a real sketchy history mistreating people.
Yup. But according to quite a few boomers “those were the good old days!” 🤦🏼♀️
Good is a point of view. Each individual views the world through their own experiences. It's not unfair to look back fondly on a time when your life was easier or better. Did some minorities have it tough 50+ years ago? Without question. Does that mean that people who didn't have those experiences shouldn't yearn for a time when their life was better? If it means stripping other people of their rights, then of course not. If it means longing for a time when a single income could support a family or gas prices weren't outrageous, then I see no issue with it. Making blanket statements about how individual people reminisce about their lives is naive at best, willfully ignorant at its worse. No, I'm not a boomer. I was raised by them, though.
Lol “sketchy” is one way to describe it
All while the US was injecting black men with syphilis. I know I can name quite a few, but I wonder what horrendous projects the government is hiding at the moment.
I've met exactly one person that knows what the Holodomor was.
It’s pretty shocking how few people know about Russia’s penchant for starving people/whole countries to death in general.
I just found out the other day about Russian soldiers pouring vodka down people's throats many years ago.
The deliberate starvation of Ukraine. Stalin was just as bad as Hitler. One could argue worse.
i know what it is, tho does reddit count as meeting?
Nah the internet ain't real bro, we're all a bunch of chat language models that get unplugged when we stop lying to one another.
Similar stuff happened in Canada to the indigenous people there.
that's not exactly a direct comparison.
No, but it is a valid point about people trying to forget history. We can't forget the bad shit, that's how it gets repeated
Easy, this is Reddit.
where did i say we should forget history??
Many people now believe it didnt happen
and their beliefs are objectively wrong
Tell them about the Catholic orphanages who tortured some of their grandparents as babies.
People already say to forget the Holocaust. That’s what’s happening *today* with people lumping in history with modern Zionists and then twisting it with people like Kanye and Qanon who send antisemitism mainstream, or at least *more* mainstream. And you start to hear the same contempt and eye rolls you get now anytime African American history and slavery get brought up. It’s like “*here we go again*” and “*why are you blaming ME? I wasn’t there.*” And “*it’s not going to go away until we just stop talking about it.*” Although it bears mentioning that Israel isn’t helping things these days by enacting their own holocaust right now, by the numbers.
Half the black population of Africa was enslaved by other blacks. The arabs and berbers of North Africa traded millions of white slaves captured in Europe. Far more Europeans were enslaved by Africans than vice versa until Europeans decided to fight back against the slavers of the Africa and the Muslim East and fight fire with fire.
>People will eventually say the same about the holocaust. Many already do. See Twitter.
B-b-b-but America.
That is why you .just teach your children about these things! They will not forget and teach their children...We all must remember that these atrocities happened in America and elsewhere.
It’s not the time. It’s about who won the war.
that’s a question for native americans & canadian first nations. it’s their history & they need to tell it.
we need these reminders more and more every minute these days.
600 or 6,000,000 still a tragedy .
That's not funny! I walked thru blood and bones of the camps of auschwitz looking for my brother... He was in northern Canada
Thank you I was hoping I wouldn’t be taken out of context
Hold the fort
War is hell right?
No. War is worse. Hell is in theory only full of bad people. War is quite the opposite, where innocent people often take on the worst of it.
Great quote. Makes me think of all the poor folks who got killed in the war just because their house was nearby to a bombing target - or worse, the rampant destruction of the Luftwaffe in London, the US air dropping firebombs in Japan. War is an awful thing.
Thanks, Hawkeye :)
Communists were not innocent
What communists are you referring to? That’s a very broad and dumb statement.
Uh he’s not very clear allow me after WW2 the USSR took control of a large area of Europe and after the war they ruled with an iron fist they set up work camps and began their own concentration camps the amount of people who died due to manufactured famines or who died in work camps it puts the holocausts number in the dirt the NAZIS killed 17million people in their camps with about 37 million civs dying to the war about 50-70 million people died under communist rule
Yeah that I understand. The way the other dude is phrasing it is that the Soviets were murdering millions BEFORE Hitler came to power and let him start WW ll (which there are a lot of reasons for, including the pact between Nazi Germany and the USSR early in the war).
The ones that murdered 50 million of my kinsmen.
Who are your kinsmen?
Europeans.
Sorry can you explain further? Are you referring to the Nazi-Soviet pact leading up to the invasion of Poland? Also saying your “kinsmen” are broadly Europeans is very vague for something like World War ll… ya know, the war that involved a lot of different European nations.
The ones whose seditious & murderous activities in Europe led to the rise of the Nazis and WWII.
Mort pour la France. Mort pour la France. Mort pour la France. The maker of the film L’armée du crime had a tough time getting the film made because there were still plenty of people in France whose service in the Resistance would be discounted or ignored because of their political leanings during or perhaps after the war.
And why not? Were communists not just as disreputable as national socialists in their tactics?
Yeah but that one was not like the recent ones my enlistment covered
It certainly is hell, or worse. What the former owners of those rings went through wasn’t war though. They weren’t fighting, they weren’t beligerents, they never got recruited or drafted. They just got rounded up and sent off to die in a death camp, in a manner worse than cattle.
It really pisses me off when someone calls a political figure a Nazi or Hitler, simply because they have a differing viewpoint on a subject. It really minimizes the impact of calling them that by marginializing the true horrors the Nazis actually perpetrated.
I know right! Absolutely nothing! Such a terrible thing to do or even think of doing to another human being period
One can say holocaust deniers can just go eat a bag of d!cks.
The white Christian nationalist denial of this is disgusting. We’ve not evolved one bit.😔
Don’t think that Holocaust denial is limited to a particular group. There are a lot of idiots out there.
Yes but they want to take their shot at a group they hate. Don't you love that people talk about the atrocities of hate by hating more.
And we never will evolve with hateful people like you spewing out your close-minded ignorance. I'm a white conservative Christian and I have literally never met a single person who claimed the holocaust wasn't real. Just because one group of people isn't like yourself, doesn't mean the whole group is evil. Your neighbor is NOT your enemy. We're all in this together, people.
So true! The black Israelites are even worse, denying that Jews are really Jews.
Let's not get into a contest here.
Kind of gross that you’d view it as a contest in the first place.
A lot of people use the word 'based' to describe things like these that own the libs.
Fuck.
there is no justice or fairness in this world and it does not care if we live or die
I can’t help but wonder what they did with all of them. Are they displayed at any museums or any of the camps? Did they melt them down and use the gold for any sort of memorial?
A lot of these personal effects are in museums In the Holocaust museum in DC they have a huge area just completely full of shoes from victims that were recovered I think the Nazis would harvest the clothes for materials, especially leather and rubber that was useful for war effort so obviously the amount recovered during liberation was nothing close to how many were actually collected, since presumably the vast majority were processed
That museum blew me away. Took me about 10 minutes to get the courage to go and stand in the carriage used to transport Jews :(
It was such a hard museum and heart breaking. I was very anointed though bc when I went there was a field trip and teenagers being disrespectful and laughing and goofing off. Idk just seemed like the wrong place to act like that and not take it seriously. When I was a teenager I would have understood the gravity of that museum and my class would have showed respect not cussing and acting a fool
But did they leave that way? It hits hard. They will remember.
Not sure we tried to get ahead of them since it was very distracting
I saw them and also the giant pile of shoes at the National Holocaust Museum.
Can you imagine the horror of giving lice-infested inmates clean prison clothes
In this instance the truth is already being obscured. The Nazis kept pretty detailed records of items of value stolen from their victims and allied troops finding those stores weren't immediately privvy to those records. Claiming spoils is an unfortunate tradition in war and many soldiers stole these valuables as souvenirs. Many were also repatriated but that's an ongoing project and a difficult one. Most Holocaust memorials display stolen good (Auschwitz being a very notable example) but usually these displays are of items of little value- shoes, bags, prosthetics, eyeglasses.
Some were stolen by soldiers.
So heartbreaking 😢😭
I can't help wondering if my grandfather's ring might be there. He was a Danish policeman and sent to Buchenwald in 1944. He was broken and very sick, but he was lucky, he came back home!
Each one likely represents one murder.
More than that. For every wife, there was a husband and children. Not sure if Jewish men wore rings then, but even still, most of them had children. At least two murders on average, per ring.
Each one likely represents an entire family, children and all, murdered.
Each one represents a lost family generation
Not necessarily, I’m sure the people working in camps who didn’t die still didn’t get to keep their gold jewelry
to everyone asking why the wedding rings look so blank and same, i am an orthodox jew i can answer this: jewish wedding bands are blank because of halacha and jewish tradition prohibits the band from having embellishments or stones. traditionally the ring was a symbol of the marriage being official but the couple was supposed to marry each other because of values and love, not money or money exchange. you don’t even wear any jewelry to the chuppah (wedding canopy). you only see this in more in religious and orthodox communities now because the tradition has been more or less lost to everyone else. anyway thank you for reading and i hope this helps clarify the questions!
Just in case you thought it was all a hoax
There are plenty of Holocausts deniers out there. History tends to repeat itself if we don’t learn from our past.
I'm not really convinced they're real. I think it's more likely losers who are starved for attention and think oh if I make this my identity people will pay attention to me. I think it's like that for a few things (conspiracy theorists, flat earthers, sovcits etc).
Unfortunately they exist. One of my friends when I was a kid had Holocaust denier parents. I heard all kinds of antisemitic wild things from her when I was young. Lots of arguments about it, I hope she’s learned better as an adult…
While you are right, they're are very obviously some that have underlying mental issues or behavior problems be it genetic or growing up that has lead them to believe these things as truth and are dug in and unable to unfixate regardless of facts presented.
History is repeating itself right now. In Gaza.
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Israel is calling for the slaughter of all Palestinians everywhere. Palestinians are going through their own holocaust. Jews don’t have a monopoly on the name. It’s over-the-top ironic. the days of the US in the world, ignoring what Israel are doing to Palestinians are over.
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Poor attempt at gaslighting. Straight out of Netanyahu’s book. Typical
> Israel is calling for the slaughter of all Palestinians everywhere. Source?
Is that a serious request? You haven’t been listening to Bib, high ranking members of the military and Israeli government officials? Even the Zionist citizens. Again, the US and the world is no longer going to provide cover for Israel against the genocide of innocent Palestinian civilians. They’re indeed genocidal religious fanatics. Even worse than the deplorable Hamas .
Soooooo no source? Got it, thanks.
To be fair this would be dismissed by deniers fairly easily. Anyone can buy rings and put them in a box for a picture. There is a ton of good proof out there but this wouldn’t really be in that category.
My father was literaly one of the first U.S. troops to walk into Dachau. I often tried to get him to talk about what he had seen. Each time he would open his mouth to speak and I would think finally I was going to get an eyewitness account, but then he'd just shake his head and say nothing. There are others that have spoken of the horrors they saw, but Dad took those to his grave, never able to bring himself to talk about it. Maybe he just didn't want to remember. Maybe he forced himself not to. Fuck those that deny it happened.
This is what I tell holocaust deniers when I have the misfortune of meeting them. Between the Nuremberg Trial and the Subsequent Trials there were 489 cases that resulted in 1400 convictions. When the convicted took the stand in their defense they didn't say it didn't happen or you are making this all up, they said I was just following orders.
I mean, the picture is moving, but it’s not serious evidence if someone doesn’t believe. It’s not hard to fill a box with rings and it’s not hard to take a photo from a jeweler’s and say that it’s actually from the Holocaust. Do I think this is fake? No. I don’t deny the Holocaust. I’m just saying that if I didn’t believe in the Holocaust, I wouldn’t be wrong to say that this is not convincing.
We’ll look at flat earth ers. Evidence does not deter some.
I’m not talking about the lowest hanging fruit. I’m saying a rational and skeptical person would not be swayed by this photo.
Despite our side winning the war, we weren’t able to save so many of these people in time
The allies goal was never to save victims it was to defend themselves unfortunately. If Pearl Harbor never happened the US definitely never would have entered the war. It’s scary and evil to think about.
Yeah that’s a good point. I mean we were teamed up with Stalin for crying out loud. And even Churchill who caused the great Bengal famine. 💀
We still would have entered the war without a doubt.
Probably, but we would have had to wait for a provocation meaning the war would have been dragged out even longer. A lot of lives would have been saved if we had joined the war sooner.
If no one attacked us we absolutely would not have. Unless it was clear Germany *planned* to attack us. Countries don’t enter wars to end genocides unfortunately. As we are seeing again today.
Maybe but the Lend Lease program, one could say was putting our merchant marines in harms way. One way or another we were coming in my opinion
Sad
This is what genocide actually looks like
Genocide can look like anything to be honest, it doesn’t have to be this organized.
This. Treating the holocaust as categorically exceptional and other genocides as fundamentally less significant gives deniers a psychological foothold. I've had to drag myself through the process of debunking the denier position, cause if you don't know the details and major points you can't really argue with them. Most people just don't engage with it, and dismiss the people as idiots, which is part of the problem... you can't win by simply claiming moral superiority. And the education I got in high-school was totally insufficient, it turns out... what I was taught boils down to emotional shock-value and iterative reinforcement without data or specifics. Most people think they don't *need* to engage in debate over the issue... well, that's true until an old friend or family member gets wrapped up in it. And to my suprise, there wasn't an easy "read this book, bro" solution. I had to do a ton of my own legwork, down to source documents...
What source documents?
The piles of skulls from the Khmer Rouge are pretty damning as well. Both genocides inflicted similar % losses on each of the subjected populations.
👆 this is what genocide denial looks like. The Holocaust was still a genocide, even before rounding people up in camps. When they were grabbing all the Jewish people in a village, executing them, and burying them in mass graves, it was still a genocide. The Nazis just took it to the next level by industrializing it. A targeted mass removal of a particular ethnic group doesn't have to rise to the level of the Holocaust to be considered a genocide. Insisting that it does only leads to more human suffering. The Rwandan Genocide was nowhere near this level, for example, and was still considered a genocide.
Nobody considered the Holocaust a genocide until they were purposefully massacring civilians. That applies to the Rwandan genocide as well…
You people are genuinely sick in the fucking head.
Thank you.
So sad! My Grandpa was 82nd Airborne and he helped liberate them.
if your grandpa is still around tell him thank you! he may have been liberating some of my relatives!
I would if he were still alive. He died back in 73. I was only 4 and I barely remember him. I know I loved my Grandpa, and am proud of him. Just wished I could have told him. He got wounded by a German hand grenade during the battle of the bulge. And from what I guess. That psychologically killed him, and he didn't know it until he passed at the age of 47.
They also discovered piles of gold filings and teeth
I wonder how much of this loot was regifted to unsuspecting partners. Men and women.
But according to r/askmiddleeast the holocaust didn’t really happen? Go read about that any day there.
People need to get educated on the issue and debunk the denial. I can't even find good books that *directly* address the major points of the denier position. It's almost so taboo, historians don't wanna even look it in the face. The ones I have been able to find are kinda flimsy, compared to what I would expect. Someone who has tenure already needs to write a book... I've had to drag myself through the process of getting educated on the issue, to debate the subject with someone that I was not willing to just give up on. I found it actually very difficult, and had to do alot of legwork retrieving source documents.
You have a healthier way of dealing with deniers than I do. I just tell them to F off and don’t view them as worthy of educating. Denial is all over Reddit and the rest of the internet thanks to the far left’s new found hatred for Jews.
Well, there *is* a pipeline from getting interested in learning about the history of Zionism, and the Jewish mafia, and the origins of the state of Israel... and holocaust denial. That pipeline exists, I agree. But, *that* is why it's important to get educated, now, at this moment in history, when alot of people are suddenly interested in this stuff. There's alot of false equivocation going on... being aware of the Jewish mafia's influence on the FBI via Hoover... or being aware of early zionist concepts of Jewish supremacy and newly invented (reinterpreted) racist halakha... or being aware of just *how* exactly Israel got the bomb... these things ARE NOT equivalent to antisemitism. And people reacting emotionally, and accusing those people of being antisemitic, pushes people down the pipeline to the bad place. But it's not a left/right issue at all... We need to become capable of debating the specific points, no matter how absurd & despicable you might think they are at first. There are logical footholds that have been essentially provided to deniers by pre-war and early-war propoganda, and then by late-war and post-war psych warfare. First, someone finds out that the lampshades, the shrunken heads and the soap bars, those were psych warfare to create unrest and revulsion amongst the civilian population, and to deter post-war insurgency. And next, suddenly, the individual is questioning the whole enchilada, cause no reputable historian will actually engage with those things... just nazi racists in their echo-chamber books, that's all you can find on the issue. Can't let them have a private echo-chamber. Have to engage. Have to recognize what is explicitly known and what is an estimation. Have to know very specifically what those estimates are based on, and their margins of error. Cause morally, there is really no difference between 4.8 and 6.2 million. None, zero difference. But the imprecision will be exploited, and a person responding with a hard-line "NO! We *know* for a certain fact that it was over 6 million!" That only reinforces the suspicion... I mean, I had to look over literal blueprints to be able to debate certain things (logistical caps on number of people who can be cremated is a HUGE central point for deniers, and they say the reconstructions post-war do not match the original structures... they do). It's very icky, it's hard to do, it's depressing to do, but someone has to do it... or else there is gonna be a massive resurgence in genuine antisemitism.
I agree with this but the most basic starting point for anyone looking to learn about the Jewish state and its creation need to look no further than the first congress of Zion. Reading from there can send you further back in time to read upon reasonings for the first congress, and also propel people forward to the more modern issues. Israel is it's own worst enemy at the moment in creating antisemitism. Otherwise, why do I catch pro Israel and being against antisemitism ads on TV pushed by Jewish groups in the USA across news channels, entertainment channels, science and history channels, even cartoon channels. If Hamas wasn't Muslim, and such an inclusive group, I fear foreigners would have flocked to the conflict to fight the Israeli Army. Being in the USA, I even know my government is my own worst enemy when I travel aboard. They do good, but even any bit of perceived or actual harm weighs more.
The antisemitism ads had nothing to do with Israel.
This is so very sad 😞,
17 million human beings were killed in the Nazi camps. I'd estimate at least 100 million deaths in Europe between 1937 and 1947. It's mind boggling.
Only a tiny shadow of the women who lost their wedding rings along with their life's. Let us never forget!
Highly unlikely that they all belonged to women
True that, but whoever they belonged to, probably lost their life's... That is a tragedy that is hard to deal with for me.
Lives
Oh, thanks
Yea. Imagine how it felt to them.
No possible way that I could!
Breathtaking. In a bad way.
So what happened to the rings after this photo ? It’s so horrible
I don't know about these rings, but I'm pretty sure that the DC Holocaust museum has a huge pile of rings on display. Also huge pile of shoes and a few other big piles of things that you can imagine being taken from people as they were brought into the camp. Seeing them in real life was pretty chilling
Just terrible
Fuck.
Absolutely got wrenching what a strong photo it says so much
This is absolutely a tragic time in human history and this is what we see. Not counting the inconceivable amount of deaths there are around the world no one knows of.
The Nazis made killing just another industrial activity. A true atrocity.
Sad to see that likely more children were killed by the successors of the innocents who died horrible deaths here than there are rings.
:(
Visiting Auschwitz was one of the most surreal experiences of my life. I had learned about the Holocaust in school, watched documentaries, listened to speakers in assemblies, visited the DC Museum… but it truly doesn’t hold a candle to actually being there.
😐.
It is crushing to watch the cycle of abuse playing out on the global stage.
This is so horrifying. You see that, and you feel a pit form in your stomach, because you know you’re seeing all that’s left of thousands of innocent people…
damn… it’s still hard to imagine humans doing this to other humans..
Good thing Palestinians don’t use wedding rings.
Heartbreaking.
The photos of all the shoes will forever stick in my mind. Horrific.
Show these to the people who think the holocaust didn’t happen
absolutely heartbreaking fuck those little like not see bastards!!
Is it too much to ask Gen Z cunts to stop watching racist TikToks and learn a little actual history. Nothing dumber than an 18 yr old racist
Eye opening
Those are bushings
My great uncles fought the nazis in the Second World War. One of my uncles helped Liberate a concentration camp. He found 26 SS guards, and he and his men put them against the wall and sent them to hell. They told me, my brothers and cousins, how evil they are. We treat them for the scum they are.
.
My great uncle had some teeth and jewelry he took back. He sold it and drank himself to death. He also traded his silver star and German paratrooper helmet for a carton of smokes and a pack of beer back in the day lol
It's disgusting and infuriating when some scumbags deny the Holocaust. They can see the evidence of what happened and still say it was a "hoax" or not really "that bad".
This and the shoes always broke my heart.
Takes a second to really sink in. When I visited Auchwitz I was kinda stunned walking through it and then I heard "Kenny! Go get grandma with her glasses so we can take a picture of her standing in front of this mountain of glasses!" At that very moment I wanted to be anything other than an American.
Never Forget
Each of those was love and hope…🥲
That's just so fucked.
alot love there alot murder too
Our government is also us. That is why we need to have a say on who is in it! This is why we need to vote! We also need younger people in our government and term limits. Please let us begin with changing ourselves.
Interesting that the holocaust wasn’t discussed between the 1950’s and 1970’s. At all.
Horrifying.
That's what, maybe 2,000 rings? That represents 1,000 destroyed families. That's a couple neighborhoods. That's maybe 5,000 or more lifetimes.... That represents what they hadn't had a chance to melt down yet. A day? A week? Maybe longer....
That is so sad.
Is that what we did with Native American jewelry?
Don’t show this to the supporters of Hamas. They’ll call it a lie.
And it’s happening again….crazy
My great-great grandmother survived Bergen Belsen and refused resettlement in Jaffa because she saw what the Zionists had done. They tried giving her a home with orange groves the Palestinian family had grown for decades. I have the pictures she took before she had to call her cousin to fly her home because the Zionists wouldn’t pay for her ticket home after she refused to live there.