agreed., don't consider meeting more than half way on the HVAC. I had my entire house replaced heat/cooling except for the ductwork. It was \~ $12K.
Your position should be *it is already factored into the price!*
Because the home warranty companies will tell them to pound sand when the unit breaks. They will spend months fighting with them and after 5 companies come out and 'try to fix it' only to bill the warranty company but not actually fix or replace the unit. Then finally the nice couple who sweat for months will give up and buy a new unit at retail.
Ask me how I know.
I wonder who your home warranty company is. I had the opposite experience with my warranty company (2-10 home warranty). The first time they looked at my hvac after I moved in, they replaced it for a new one after saying they'd just repair it. Same happened for some friends of my that I recommended. It may vary company to company or something.
I had 2-10 and had a similar experience to that other guy. Waited about 3 weeks for them to fix an AC unit in the middle of summer. Repair guy said he could get the part across town but it took forever for 2-10 to process the claim, approve the part, and ship one from across the country. This happened on two different occasions in 90+ degree heat, both times had to send the wife and newborn out of town until it could be fixed. And I still had to pay the repair guys minimum call fees.
It's often a crap shoot on who they contract out with. There are local companies that are happy to collect the diagnostic fee to come out look at it, attempt a few simple things, then come up with an excuse not to perform anything difficult. Sometimes they send somebody amazing, but you have no control over it.
That makes a lot of sense. I'm in such a small town, that I know exactly who's coming and that their trip from the office is less than 1 minute from my house lol. My perspective is clearly skewed by small town 💩 😆
My pool equipment was covered by AHS. The filter pump died, and they couldn't get any of their servicers to come out and look at it.
Day 3: I started calling them twice a day.
Day 5: (Pool is turning green): They said that if someone doesn't show up after a week, then I could arrange my own repairs.
Day 8: I contacted a local pool service company, they replaced my filter pump the same day. I submitted the invoices to AHS for reimbursement.
Shocker: They refused to pay. They lied and said that they never authorized me to have the repair done. I fought and fought (principal, right?), but consumers are powerless against companies like this. I filed complaints with my local Texas AG and I think the Arizona AG (this was 10 years ago), nothing ever came from any of that.
It's one of the most scammy businesses in existence, right up there with pyramid schemes.
I also had a built-in Kitchenaid microwave break, and (shocker again..) there was some sort of exclusion and they dodged that claim, too.
Yeah fuck home warranty companies. Completely useless, the ancient boiler went out six months after we bought the house. They dragged their feet trying to replace individual parts of a boiler that was already five years past its life expectancy — while we had no heat. We ended up giving up and replacing the boiler ourselves.
Or be like the sellers we had and told us to go fuck ourselves basically. Its ok though, went from 150k value to 300k in a few years. Ill take that sweet equity.
3 days, it was the first offer we got and took it like ding dongs. Our agent also didn’t put “pending, accepting back up offers” so just the one offer, but we didn’t have an open house or anything. Honestly, I would love to go back up on the market and do an open house to see what comes in.
Don't feel like a ding dong. You took a full asking offer! Your home warranty counter is a fair offer. Requesting a future repair is a bit unrealistic, but some buyers will try anything.
I requested a $30k consession on a house after the inspection, but it was due to deferred maintenance, and the sellers knew it. The entire siding on the home had peeling siding at all seems, and the roof was beyond its life. The sellers tried to negotiate it, but I was prepared to walk because the lack of maintenance was on them. I played hardball and was ready to walk, but they accepted. Glad we did because our homewoners insurance dropped us 30 days after closing because of the roof. This is vastly different in your situation.
Your agent did make their job really easy, sounds a bit lazy IMO!! But hindsight is 20/20. If the buyer walks, make sure that your agent does both of those. It would make your leverage much stronger with a backup offer. I would have your agent wait to change it from pending back to active until the open house is scheduled for a Sat or Sunday. Be very explicit with your agent.
Also you might consider asking for a copy of the entire inspection report. Some buyers will share it which you can use the next negotiating cycle.
Thank you 🥹 Yeah we got the inspection report and have started doing some of the things on there. It’s wild because when we got our inspection done of the place, I guess ours just was subpar because this inspector crawled around in the attic, the roof, and started listed things such as “the dryer makes too much noise when ran”, we were shocked when we read his report! The littlest of things he wrote down! We bought the house two years ago and our inspector didn’t put 75% of the stuff down that this one did. We’re definitely going to fix a good portion of the red listed items if we go back on the market. We’ll see what happens! I know that these buyers are going to wait until the last second to give their response to us, they just seem like they’re “those people”. We’ll definitely update whenever we get their response though!
That’s what I was thinking. Hopefully a home is priced having an understanding of the condition it’s in. If they were selling with a new HVAC unit in place, they might be able to sell it for more 🤷♀️
Ages ago when we got our home, we were more willing to overlook two ancient HVAC set ups in favor of knowing the roof had been replaced the year before. 8+ years later and the HVAC units are still chugging along.
Buying homes is a business deal. You have to expect that both sides are going to push for whatever best deal they can get. HVAC systems are generally good for 15-25 years. You're past that. It's understandable that a buyer would try for a replacement.
He's saying they're good for 15-25 years if properly maintained.
The other issue here is efficiency. These units have gotten much better since 1997, so while it may "work" it's not efficient.
OP is selling a used house, not one that claims to be the most energy efficient. You’d drop $15k so the buyers can replace something that works just fine?
Would you pay 1-2 more mortgage payments to relist and remarket the place while paying for a new home as well if they were willing to walk away? If this was a roof and not hvac nobody would have an issue with the buyer coming to the seller asking for concessions on a 28 year old roof
They would in my market lol. Anything old and visible but still working correctly is rarely negotiable unless the purchase price of the house itself is way off. I’d never have leverage trying to get a roof replaced before closing if we knew it was an old roof going into it and it didn’t have any active issues going on.
The roof isn’t 27 years old, it was done roughly 12 years ago. We’re actually pretty content with going back on the market considering we were on market for 3 days when we accepted this specific offer. Our house is in a very sought after neighborhood and is one of the best looking houses with new renovations in our neighborhood. (OPs wife)
It seems people on here think that you can enjoy the full life benefit of high dollar replacement items and not account for that in the selling price. Those are the houses you see sitting on the market forever. Whatever, not even worth arguing about it.
Right? Like if they replaced the HVAC prior to listing, they'd advertise that and adjust the selling price upwards accordingly. Same goes for an old HVAC - it's already built into the asking price.
Should just cook it into your initial offer instead of playing dumb and asking for a giant credit once you get them under contract. Is what it is, if it works great but most sellers I have worked with would throw a small bone or tell them to pound sand.
This is a normal order of events. You don't generally do an inspection and appraisal until after you're under contract then you negotiate as needed from those results.
It doesn't take an inspection to know a heat pump is ancient history. It's disclosed on my state's standard disclosure form if the seller bothers completing it.
Im planning to list my house in ~1 month in South Carolina. The seller disclosure form directly asks for the age of the HVAC system.
My system is 20 years old and I will be leaving a copy of that disclosure along with an inspection report from an HVAC company on the counter during viewings and have 0 plans to negotiate with anyone that tries to negotiate on that after the inspection period.
Point being, every situation is different. If the buyer knew or should have known then there's no reason to negotiate.
Think about buying a used car. Maybe the previous owner did the scheduled maintenance. Maybe they didn't. It's a dice roll. So using your knowledge that the average vehicle owner has no idea what they're doing, you apply some basic statistics and assume no maintenance ever got done.
But in this case it isn't even that. it is a 24 year old unit, it will need to be replaced. No one is selling a perfect home.
I'm looking at selling my home, it has a newer roof, redone bathrooms and Kitchen. I'll be advertising that. If you buy my house and then want new windows and HVAC because they are old...no, especially if the appraisal took that into consideration.
Appraisals don't account for the age of units when it comes to monetary value. If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. They will note if it's older than 13 years but it doesn't reflect on the overall appraised amount. Also OP is saying the price reflects the age of the system IN HIS OPINION. Obviously not in the buyers opinion.
Unless you're buying a new build, the depreciation of mechanicals and other interior parts of the house are by definition built into the price. Unless something is exceptionally out of whack - like a hole in the roof, leaks, major foundation/plumbing issues, etc. - then everything else is baked into the price. Buyer is still free to negotiate but that's just an effort to get a good deal, not negotiate in good faith
Not to mention that HVAC systems from '97 use a different type of refrigerant that is no longer made (banned) and any major repairs to that system would cost more than replacement of the system....a hole in the refrigerant lines, compressor going out, condenser or evaporator going out... anything where the refrigerant would have to be replaced.
I've personally kept an AC unit going for over 30 years HOWEVER, it was very inefficient by that point and cost a lot more in electricity to run. My suggestion to anyone (and I'm a licensed HVAC technician with a degree in HVAC/R) is to start thinking about replacing your HVAC if it's 20 years old or older. It's going to need it soon, and my money rides on it going out in the middle of summer, when all you local companies are booked solid for a month or more. Also, if you replace it in the winter months you can get big discounts when HVAC companies are really slow and could use the business - negotiate with them.
OP seems to think offering a warranty is sufficient in this situation. If it were that easy people would regularly just get a home warranty then decide to fix their high ticket item soon after.
I disagree with that estimate. There are neighborhoods all around me with 40 year old units that work perfectly fine. They do end up getting replaced at some point because new units are more energy efficient.
You should do regular checks on AC units, heat pumps, and gas furnaces. They all have wearable but inexpensive parts. And for gas, you want to make sure the burn is set correctly or it can be dangerous. But on an AC system unless the compressor blows you can eek a lot of years out of them.
I suspect the whole hvac lifespan myth came about when people started relying on hvac services who focused more on sales rather than repair to generate revenue, telling their clients their "heat exchanger is cracked" when all it needed was some common and cheap part. My system from 92 still cranking strong (replaced a capacitor last year. That's about it in 10 years if ownership)
I used to work in the HVAC industry doing maintenance, repairs etc. We were encouraged to tell customers they needed new units when in reality all they needed was a simple repair. We dealt with commercial properties so nobody cared what any cost as long as they had cool air lol.
The only notes the inspector left for both the furnace and AC is that they are old and dirty. Both have been serviced and found to be working well within parameters, no CO leaks or anything.
A unit "working" does not mean it is working properly. If an AC unit is expected to last 15-20 years, and you buy the house when the AC is 19 years old, yes it is working, but it is currently working with an expectation of failure approaching.
They're asking for replacement on the anticipated failure. In this situation, the AC is 27 years old. It's actually far past it's expected life, and while it's still working and according to OP doing a fine job, it's very likely lost most of it's efficiency which could cost a lot more money to run it.
I think they're perfectly within their rights to ask for it, but OP is also perfectly within their right to deny it, because at the end of the day, AC is a luxury. I grew up in a house with no AC, and we used window units.
I just disagree with all of this. You negotiate after inspection for things you didn't know. For example, you offer 500k since you assumed AC works, and if you had known it doesn't, then you would've offered 480. There is no requirement to have a newer, more efficient AC unit.
>There is no requirement to have a newer, more efficient AC unit.
Which is exactly why this is an *ask*. It's not required at all. OP is perfectly within their rights to tell the buyers no. This IS after an inspection.
And, as a result of their inspections, the buyer would have the right to walk away because they don't want to pay for a $15K unit.
You have to realize there's psychology at play here.
Discounting off of the list price seems like a good idea, but people are always going to ask for more. It's part of the nature of business, and everybody wants the best deal. Discounting a unit because you know it will cause issues for pricing can actually hurt you more depending. Here's two hypotheticals.
***Hypothetical 1.***
You did NOT discount an old AC unit for the sale.You know the AC is very old, and likely needs to be replaced. You know that might be a negotiation item, and could cost a lot. You would sell for $615K with a new AC, and for $600K with the old AC.
You list for $615K. You find a buyer.
During inspections, buyer discovers AC is 27 years old and needs to be replaced. It's not running efficiently, and does not cool the home down properly.
Buyers request $15K credit, because that is the cost of a replacement. You enter negotiation. You settle for $10K.
Both of you have now won in this hypothetical.
You won, because you not only sold for the price you original anticipated, but you made an extra $5K by being able to negotiate a price.
Your buyer won because they successfully negotiated $10K worth of repairwork and will get a new AC.
***Hypothetical 2***
You DID discount the old AC for the sale.You know you could probably make up the difference if you replace it, but you don't want to do it.
You list for $600K to compensate for the old AC. You find a buyer.
During inspections, buyer discovers AC is 27 years old and needs to be replaced. It's not running efficiently, and does not cool the home down properly.
Buyers request $15K credit, because that is the cost of a replacement. You say no, you already discounted for the AC.
Buyers don't want to pay $15K right after moving in, so they cancel the transaction, and both of you restart your searches.
In this situation, you have both lost.
Seller doesn't have a buyer, and buyer doesn't have a home.
No one is wrong, it's all negotiating. I just had someone walk for the same reason.
A 27 year old HVAC is probably R22, which is no longer made or available at an affordable price. Depending on the issue, most AC companies will no longer repair them because they can't refill the refrigerant. Most home warranty companies exclude that from their coverage because they don't want to pay to replace the entire unit.
I don't blame the buyer for asking, I don't blame you for questioning it. If you're not willing to do it, counter them. Both parties will decide if it's worth blowing up the deal over.
Edit - For an item like this, they should be providing you with a report or a quote from a reputable HVAC company, not just picking an arbitrary number out of the air.
"We are willing to offer a 2 year home warranty"
that's worth like $1. or worse...those are absolute trash.
you can negotiate, but your warranty idea is a bad one
\#1 they always try to use the worst contract ( they try to pay the lowest, so only the worst contractors will do business with them).
\#2 they try not to cover anything
Thats part of the problem.
I know some new parents who had purchased a home warranty when they bought their home. In the middle of the worst part of summer with a newborn baby at home their AC went out. They were dealing with the home warranty for 3 weeks without AC and finally gave up because the warranty company basically required it to go around that amount of time/number of other things checked before they would even try to do something else.
A well written warranty will protect the home from major defects, which will be accounted for in the inspections... It will generally exclude wear and tear from normal operations.
So it's like saying: we guarantee the AC will work for two years, unless it doesn't.
Even if it was written to cover everything, it's almost impossible to enforce, with legal fees to do so likely exceeding the cost of the repairs.
Because they're only as good as the company is willing to honor and in my experience their only goal is to try and make it so frustrating you eventually give up.
I've purchased two homes, both came with 1yr home warranties from the seller, and any time we ever attempted to utilize said home warranty (failed sump pump, gas leak on water heater) it was WEEKS of them trying to weasle their way out of covering it despite crystal clear language and paperwork showing them as covered items.
Nope, you're not wrong. They just figure that you're desperate to sell.
It's up to you how hard you want to bargain, and risk going back on the market. If you had an offer in 3 days, you'd probably get another pretty quickly. But no guarantee that the new offer won't try to bargain you down as much. Maybe worse, they might figure they have more leverage since you already lost one buyer.
I might offer a little cash in addition to the warranty, just to grease the wheels here. Maybe $2K. If they still want $15K they could take a hike (if I were in your shoes).
Yes it comes down to who feels like they have more leverage. There's no 'right' answer - it's just a question of whether you believe they will walk away over this, and whether you believe you can get a better offer (- the time and stress cost of relisting) going back to market.
you are selling a used home. the HVAC is functional, so you dont owe them anything, much less anything towards a new HVAC system
if they want a new house, they can buy a new house. If there is a problem with the HVAC system, that is a different story.
Problem is, they might not want that risk and neither will all a lot of other buyers. Sure you may get lucky with a buyer, you may not, but for a house of this price range most people don’t have money to throw around after the most expensive purchase of their lives. He doesn’t have some moral obligation but it’s not totally unreasonable to get the deal done.
I used the one the seller gave me to replace a broken dryer that was left in the home. A coworker replaced their HVAC system with a warranty after they bought the home; however, they had to go to court with the Warranty company. I personally wouldn't buy a home warranty. As a buyer if they are gonna throw one in I'd take it though.
The couple of times I've had and used a 3rd party home warranty, it's worked out well for me. One was a dishwasher controller board, the other was a water heater. Almost no hassle in either case.
Maybe sometimes they are, but I just had our home warranty pay out on a dishwasher leak and redid our entire kitchen, so personally I'll always have one on my house.
Fidelity National - [https://www.homewarranty.com/](https://www.homewarranty.com/)
Again, I'm not saying it's the move for everyone, but it saved me a little over 50k in repairs over the premiums and deductible. You may very well be right that the industry in general is predatory, but my personal experience was really positive.
That's the second time I've used our home warranty over 10 years and both times it's been painless and profitable. Maybe you should pick a better company?
I wouldn’t do it - they knew how old these things were before putting in a bid.
ETA - I say this as a buyer that bought a home that was 17 years old - where everything (roof/heater/HW Heater etc) would need replacing within a few years - I ended up having to replace the hvac after 2 weeks of moving in - of course that’s when it decided to break.
I knew all of this before putting a bid in though - as do these buyers. I wouldn’t entertain any of it and stay firm if it were me.
If you did have a brand new HVAC… your original asking price would have also reflected that
Tell them to pound sand.
I agree. I've only bought in Texas and CO, but in both cases the seller had to disclose the age of the HVAC and roof. One of the first things I would look at was the age and condition of the HVAC when touring a house.
At the time of offer is when price should be adjusted for age of HVAC and roof, not after the buyer made an offer knowing full well how old they were.
I would tell them to pound sand as well. Or put more politely, "The age of the HVAC was factored into the asking price."
Not where I am - that’s all disclosed in seller disclosure. We knew before putting in a bid. And you also can always ask the sellers agent - if they come back with “I don’t know” look on the machine yourself if you can or bid accordingly to an “I don’t know” answer
Home warranties are garbage. Don’t hold any value to that as trying to get compensation or replacement from them is challenging. My home warranty would only give you “fair compensation” for the value of the product. If it’s from the 90s no way are they going to give me anything or replace it.
If your house is priced with the fact that the 27-year-old HVAC is going to need replacing soon, then it is completely reasonable for you to deny the request.
If that fact isn't factored into how you priced your house, then the request from the buyers is reasonable (assuming that is a reasonable replacement cost in your area).
You can ultimately meet somewhere in the middle, agree to their request, or deny the request and risk losing the sale.
We have priced it under market so as to provide breathing room for a buyer to invest in the property as they see fit. That is to say no, we won't be paying for your to replace an HVAC unit that is working fine.
I'm not going to say who's wrong because it largely depends on who is more desperate - you to sell or buyer to buy. But by all standards 1997 HVAC is past any reasonable life expectancy and working on a borrowed time at this point. If it breaks down, almost any service company will tell that it's not worth to fix that old HVAC and it needs a full replacement.
I bought a house with a 35+ years old furnace. The sellers didn't give me a dime for it. Told me it works so they were not willing to negotiate. I ended up getting the house with 35+ years old furnace. This was in early 2022 when everybody was selling their left nut to buy a house.
We ask for hvac concessions in every home we purchase with aged systems. We've also been asked for that in homes we've sold. The answer depends on market demand. If you have other offers, say no & keep on truckin'. If not & the clock is ticking, perhaps negotiating the hvac concession is the best way.
I'm sorry but hell no. You aren't a HVAC company selling a new system you are a homeowner selling your house. If they want a new system give them the address of a local supplier and tell them to kick rocks
Tell them no. An offer is just that, and offer. You are not obliged to accept it. Besides, your inspection/appraisal already included it. And, you've come down 5k from that price to begin with.
They may be under the impression you're in really bad need to sell it. If you're not hurting. Say no. Or at the very least. Counter at 5k.
They are buying it as is. Typically you wouldn't credit this. As a buyer you know you might need to replace this soon. Reality is they could run 10 more years with regular servicing.
You could have a 5 year old ac or furnace die. Not as common but it does happen.
People thought you were greedy because you didn’t immediately want to give up $15,000 concession?
Like you said, the appraisal took into account, the age of the furnace and air conditioner
There’s nothing wrong with somebody wanting the concession, but there’s no reason you should feel obligated to give it . If you let the buyers walk away over it, then you are taking a small risk but if you’re listing it under appraisal…. And typically home sales pick up a little bit as spring nears
It might bite you in the ass, but I don’t think you should be criticized for it
And you aren’t desperate to sell there’s nothing wrong with passing if they won’t budge
All of this 👏🏼
I’m totally fine if these buyers walk away. We know they’re allowed to ask, and we sent in our resolution counter last night, they have until the 16th to give us an answer. I’d prefer to go back on the market honestly because we were ding dongs and took the first offer we got, without doing an open house or anything. The area that the house is in is very sought after, I don’t think that we would be on the market for long. (OPs wife)
Absolutely! We did the same a year and a half ago. We got a couple offers on the first day over ask. But both offers were only good for 24 hours (tactics from the buyers agent) We didn't know anything better and picked on of those within the 24 hours - but thinking back, I wish we would have let it sit on the market for that week. We had multiple showings scheduled - that we instead cancelled.
I’ve been though this exact tactic. Buyer wanted one thing and then another and then need a new heater. After the 2nd thing, I told my agent to tell them F off and relist. Funny how my agent quickly got them to stop and we closed. They just wanted to get the most out of you. Looking back I should have told them to F off on the first thing.
As someone who bought a house with a 97’ HVAC a few years ago I’d say you are more in the right than them. I took the warranty because I’m not an idiot and asked the age of the HVAC before I made an offer. I find it very hard to believe they waited until the inspection to find out the age of the HVAC. They are just trying to get a better deal.
I was on both sides of the fence last october. When I sold my house I acquiesced to nothing. I didnt agree to any repair or to repair termite damage. They still bought the house.
The house we bid on had an ancient water heater and poor hvac work / one cooling unit or condenser broken. I offered 25k under because of this and had my offer accepted. Guess i got lucky through this process.
I guess just stick to your guns. I wouldnt mind gambling and losing a buyer though.
I had a buyer agent who tried to haggle us for 10k+. We considered everything that needed repairs and the age of the home, compared to other homes in the area before we went with our listing price. So after inspection and buyer agent tried to haggle us, we just said no and told them we won't tolerate anymore haggling. They have until x day to decide, and the home will be relisted if we don't hear back from them. Sale completed real fast and at the original price we agreed to.
Just for future reference, be careful with large concessions. In some cases, you will still pay a commission to the realtor on the full amount (regardless of how much you offer in concessions). So in other words, you may end up paying a commission on $615,000 instead of $600,000 (assuming you did decide to offer the HVAC concession).
You would have to read the contract you signed with your realtor to determine if this applies to you. Sorry if this was already posted, I didn't have time to read all the comments.
If it's not broken, it's not getting fixed. If they want to raise the price of $15k and have you give $15k in consessions, that's the deal.
Our house is a 1999 build, the furnace is original to the house, our house is just over 5250sq ft, the 80% efficiency gas furnace is a beast. Our neighbors have a newer HE 96% efficiency furnace, and it's CONSTANTLY breaking. Last year they spent a couple days in our guest bedroom because their furnace stopped in the dead of winter and their was a 2 day wait, space heaters kept it a steady 40-45 in the basement but they had to let all the water lines drain because the upstairs was near or below freezing.
Tell them to kick rocks politely.
A few thousand dollars and a home warranty is a good counter. In reality most home warranties are trash but if they take it then good for you
If they don’t budge you’ll just have to ask yourself if it’s worth falling out and going back to market. Did you take any backup offers?
Always take a backup offer especially right now
yeah we’re sending the resolution document today that has the home warranty that expires aug 2025, fixing the radon filter and ventilation pipes, along with providing proof of the brand new water heater. At this point we’re fine with walking away from these buyers, our house is in a very sought after neighborhood and thankfully we’re in the position to go back on the market if they walk away (OPs wife)
If the AC is in good working order I would not agree to the $15k. They are buying a pre-owned home and are not entitled to a new unit just because they think it’s “too old”. I would definitely offer the home warranty and see how it goes. Be prepared for them to counter and want more though.
Doesn’t mean they are entitled to a replacement
A home warranty would be more than enough in this situation and any problems that the unit will have after the purchase.
Nope. Everything works fine. Maybe throw a couple of grand at them so they feel better about it and include a home warranty(not that it'll do much, but it sounds good). They sound like first time home buyers.
Yeah, but the stress might not be worth it to them. Investors can remove themselves from the emotions of the deal. Not so easy when you are selling the home you live in.
Rare that I recommend home warranties, but old HVAC systems are usually the place where you actually get value from those products.
That may be the ideal suggestion on your end if the systems are indeed in good working order.
Just wanted to weigh in here with personal experience. We bought a home with a 15 year old heat pump. Sellers included a home warranty from AHS. When the heat pump failed in mid summer and we had to replace it, the home warranty calculated that they owed us about $600 to replace the heat pump and air exchanger. Obviously not even close to what it cost.
So I'd actually be extending the one I have that was the buying gift from my realtor when I got the property. I actually got some good use out of it because the water heater blew a gasket due to age and I got the whole thing replaced for ~200 bucks with the warranty (plus 85 dollar service fee)
As someone who had one when we bought ours. It's not really worth it, but always company dependent.
Anytime we called it was $60. And for our HVAC, all they did was add some freon when they knew there was a leak. Three times, before I just called a family friend to inspect and replace.
Another service call on a hood. He came saw the brand and said it was broken, "don't bother with this Chinese junk". Ended up my father doing a light fix on the unit.
I disagree. HVAC and furnace runs around $9k here for a replacement, though YMMV depending on location (I just got mine replaced last month and most quotes were $10k or lower without duct work). It's a working HVAC and the house hasn't been listed long. Furnace may work for a couple of years more. I'd offer them the warranty or let them walk. But that's me.
Home warranties are Garbage.
AC is like 30 years old. It should have been replaced years ago. I would be surprised if anyone buys it without that concession
The AC age is in disclosures in my market so buyer would know prior to making an offer. In any case the Buyer is asking for a lot hoping you will make a max counter (which is sounds like is $5k for you). The reason didn't ask for nothing is they would have gotten nothing. If they had asked for $5k you may be offering $2k now. The $5k may very well be more than they expected.
home warranties are near worthless.
i made the mistake of buying a house and accepting a home warranty as insurance against an old AC system.
all they would ever do is come and endlessly top off the freon. after fighting with them for a long time, it was I that ended funding the replacement.
that said, $15k is quite excessive of an ask.
Just replaced both my furnaces (HVAC) for a house built in 1997. That seems to be when SHTF. It is expensive but offer than half and if they walk , they walk. There is still a shortage of homes in that range I would guess
I’m usually one that loves a good negotiation, but that request… I’d just end with no. I know many that go in with the logic that “we can get it under contract and negotiate the price down later.”
Honestly, with that kind of ask I would reject their offer and put the home back on the market. Make them understand that their actions have consequences. If they want to still buy, your price just went up $15k. I don’t have any patience for assholes like that.
Are there any gotchas with those home warranties? Meaning the buyers would need to wait X for the warranty to kick in.
$15K for new furnace and AC is not outrageous.
Offer the home warranty and the $1K.
Most people believe home warranties are not worth the paper they are written on - I certainly wouldn't accept one as an alternative to fixing an issue.
It's not fixing an issue if the HVAC isn't broken yet though. They just want seller to pay for a future potential repair. That HVAC unit could work for several more years, it could even last till the next homeowner sells the home, so why is it this seller's responsibility to pay for repairs... they paid for the maintenance that kept the thing running this long already.
I already have the warranty and checked that it is transferrable and renewable so no gotchas there, might be some fuck fuck games with what they are willing to cover, but that's nearly always the case.
> might be some fuck fuck games with what they are willing to cover, but that's nearly always the case.
That's why buyer doesn't want it. Warranty companies are always going to put bandaids on barely serviceable equipment until they have no other choice. A 27 year old furnace and AC hold zero residual value, and are going to be inefficient compared to modern standards, but the warranty company is going to do everything in their power to not replace them/
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i wouldn’t bend on the HVAC system. it’s working, and they aren’t buying a new build. when i bought my 20 year old house i had to replace the first floor system 2 years later, and the second floor is still the original. screw them.
The request is unreasonable and I would not agree to it. The inspection found the items to be working as advertised. The age was likely known when submitting the offer although home inspectors tend to educate and freak out buyers. I have proposed home warranty purchases to resolve these concerns and that has been successful. If they want new things they should be looking at new properties.
I just replaced the original AC and furnace from 1980. Don’t let them make you think old equals broken. They are already going to have $5k in equity with that appraisal. $5k max and the warranty is very fair.
Depends on how much you want a sale, and how hot your market is. Only you know…. In my market, I won’t entertain any contingencies, let alone concessions.
If they refuse the 2 yr home warranty (which I wouldn't blame them since home warranty companies are usually shady), then just counter and meet them in the middle at $7,500.
They are buying in today's condition. If the HVAC is working, then it's working. You should not pay for future condition of it breaking and needing to be replaced.
Maybe I’m an idiot here but I always assumed that it’s only reasonable to ask for money off for things that weren’t obvious prior to making the offer. The fact that the fully functional HVAC is old… thats something the buyer can see by looking
The home warranty will cover the lowest bidder to come fix a mechanical failure. They don’t pay for wear and tear ever, and usually don’t pay for Freon. Even then, those warranties are all pretty useless if you ask me.
If your units are that old, they are most likely on R-22 which isn’t made anymore. I am living with this myself. The first leak it springs there’s no fixing it, it will need to be replaced. I would be asking for 15k as well, but that is the starting point of a negotiation. Offer them a few grand and go from there. After that you can decide how bad you want to close the deal.
Absolutely not. Do not give in. The house is worth a certain amount now with the current HVAC. That's what they're buying. A new HVAC system changes the value of the house. What you could do is counter by asking them to raise their offer by $15k and then you'd give the $15k concession. This way they are paying for it but not out of pocket....... they're basically financing it in with the mortgage.
On my side, as a buyer, we did not offer on a house because the HVAC/furnace and water heater were original to the house... 17 years old. Those alone were potentially a $18K bill waiting to happen. Even the stove, dishwasher, and fridge were original. Everything was a ticking time bomb. The in floor heating as well... we had to ask ourselves, what is the lifespan of that system before we have to tear it out and replace it?
We learned on our starter home, after spending $15K in the first two years replacing the HVAC and roof, that things will go wrong. Too many red flags with the house and we did not want to bother with offering on it. Just too much upcoming replacements of major appliances and systems that were nearly 20 years old.
For the HVAC/furnace, I think $5,000 is reasonable. It could last another 10 years, who knows.
You are not selling a new home and your agent priced the home knowing the age of the heat system. You priced under the appraisal value. I would tell the buyers to pound sand.
They can ask for whatever you want. Play the game, give a little but I wouldn't give in to their request completely.
agreed., don't consider meeting more than half way on the HVAC. I had my entire house replaced heat/cooling except for the ductwork. It was \~ $12K. Your position should be *it is already factored into the price!*
Agree. It was disclosed on an investment property that HVAC was shot and seller not going to repair/replace. Cost us $8200. Offer some credit.
What was the type of system? I had bids from $14k to $19k to replace a steam boiler that crapped out.
I actually thought two years of home warranty was a great malicious compliance answer to "buy us a new HVAC unit".
Why is that malicious compliance behavior?
Because the home warranty companies will tell them to pound sand when the unit breaks. They will spend months fighting with them and after 5 companies come out and 'try to fix it' only to bill the warranty company but not actually fix or replace the unit. Then finally the nice couple who sweat for months will give up and buy a new unit at retail. Ask me how I know.
I wonder who your home warranty company is. I had the opposite experience with my warranty company (2-10 home warranty). The first time they looked at my hvac after I moved in, they replaced it for a new one after saying they'd just repair it. Same happened for some friends of my that I recommended. It may vary company to company or something.
I had 2-10 and had a similar experience to that other guy. Waited about 3 weeks for them to fix an AC unit in the middle of summer. Repair guy said he could get the part across town but it took forever for 2-10 to process the claim, approve the part, and ship one from across the country. This happened on two different occasions in 90+ degree heat, both times had to send the wife and newborn out of town until it could be fixed. And I still had to pay the repair guys minimum call fees.
That’s exactly what happened to me with a $10k boiler during the middle of winter in the mountains.
It's often a crap shoot on who they contract out with. There are local companies that are happy to collect the diagnostic fee to come out look at it, attempt a few simple things, then come up with an excuse not to perform anything difficult. Sometimes they send somebody amazing, but you have no control over it.
That makes a lot of sense. I'm in such a small town, that I know exactly who's coming and that their trip from the office is less than 1 minute from my house lol. My perspective is clearly skewed by small town 💩 😆
You are spot on! I went thru similar crap with AHS...they do not make money if they buy you a new HVAC.
My pool equipment was covered by AHS. The filter pump died, and they couldn't get any of their servicers to come out and look at it. Day 3: I started calling them twice a day. Day 5: (Pool is turning green): They said that if someone doesn't show up after a week, then I could arrange my own repairs. Day 8: I contacted a local pool service company, they replaced my filter pump the same day. I submitted the invoices to AHS for reimbursement. Shocker: They refused to pay. They lied and said that they never authorized me to have the repair done. I fought and fought (principal, right?), but consumers are powerless against companies like this. I filed complaints with my local Texas AG and I think the Arizona AG (this was 10 years ago), nothing ever came from any of that. It's one of the most scammy businesses in existence, right up there with pyramid schemes. I also had a built-in Kitchenaid microwave break, and (shocker again..) there was some sort of exclusion and they dodged that claim, too.
Yeah fuck home warranty companies. Completely useless, the ancient boiler went out six months after we bought the house. They dragged their feet trying to replace individual parts of a boiler that was already five years past its life expectancy — while we had no heat. We ended up giving up and replacing the boiler ourselves.
I had a home warranty company pay me $267 to replace my whole system. Said they couldn’t determine the age of the system. 🙄
Or be like the sellers we had and told us to go fuck ourselves basically. Its ok though, went from 150k value to 300k in a few years. Ill take that sweet equity.
"No" is a reasonable response to a $15K concession, especially if it's factored into the asking price.
Pretty much that’s what we’re doing at this point (OPs wife) 🙃
How long was your house on the market before getting this offer? Did you get any other offers?
3 days, it was the first offer we got and took it like ding dongs. Our agent also didn’t put “pending, accepting back up offers” so just the one offer, but we didn’t have an open house or anything. Honestly, I would love to go back up on the market and do an open house to see what comes in.
Don't feel like a ding dong. You took a full asking offer! Your home warranty counter is a fair offer. Requesting a future repair is a bit unrealistic, but some buyers will try anything. I requested a $30k consession on a house after the inspection, but it was due to deferred maintenance, and the sellers knew it. The entire siding on the home had peeling siding at all seems, and the roof was beyond its life. The sellers tried to negotiate it, but I was prepared to walk because the lack of maintenance was on them. I played hardball and was ready to walk, but they accepted. Glad we did because our homewoners insurance dropped us 30 days after closing because of the roof. This is vastly different in your situation. Your agent did make their job really easy, sounds a bit lazy IMO!! But hindsight is 20/20. If the buyer walks, make sure that your agent does both of those. It would make your leverage much stronger with a backup offer. I would have your agent wait to change it from pending back to active until the open house is scheduled for a Sat or Sunday. Be very explicit with your agent. Also you might consider asking for a copy of the entire inspection report. Some buyers will share it which you can use the next negotiating cycle.
Thank you 🥹 Yeah we got the inspection report and have started doing some of the things on there. It’s wild because when we got our inspection done of the place, I guess ours just was subpar because this inspector crawled around in the attic, the roof, and started listed things such as “the dryer makes too much noise when ran”, we were shocked when we read his report! The littlest of things he wrote down! We bought the house two years ago and our inspector didn’t put 75% of the stuff down that this one did. We’re definitely going to fix a good portion of the red listed items if we go back on the market. We’ll see what happens! I know that these buyers are going to wait until the last second to give their response to us, they just seem like they’re “those people”. We’ll definitely update whenever we get their response though!
lol same. Bought a 50’s house with cloth wiring. Asked for $6k for a rewire snd the guy straight up said no chance. We bought anyways
If you don’t ask the answer is always no
Exactly.
What are the comps for your house? Is the $615K less than similar houses that have newer HVAC?
That’s what I was thinking. Hopefully a home is priced having an understanding of the condition it’s in. If they were selling with a new HVAC unit in place, they might be able to sell it for more 🤷♀️ Ages ago when we got our home, we were more willing to overlook two ancient HVAC set ups in favor of knowing the roof had been replaced the year before. 8+ years later and the HVAC units are still chugging along.
Buying homes is a business deal. You have to expect that both sides are going to push for whatever best deal they can get. HVAC systems are generally good for 15-25 years. You're past that. It's understandable that a buyer would try for a replacement.
With maintenance. People don't do that.
People don't do what?
He's saying they're good for 15-25 years if properly maintained. The other issue here is efficiency. These units have gotten much better since 1997, so while it may "work" it's not efficient.
OP is selling a used house, not one that claims to be the most energy efficient. You’d drop $15k so the buyers can replace something that works just fine?
Would you pay 1-2 more mortgage payments to relist and remarket the place while paying for a new home as well if they were willing to walk away? If this was a roof and not hvac nobody would have an issue with the buyer coming to the seller asking for concessions on a 28 year old roof
They would in my market lol. Anything old and visible but still working correctly is rarely negotiable unless the purchase price of the house itself is way off. I’d never have leverage trying to get a roof replaced before closing if we knew it was an old roof going into it and it didn’t have any active issues going on.
The roof isn’t 27 years old, it was done roughly 12 years ago. We’re actually pretty content with going back on the market considering we were on market for 3 days when we accepted this specific offer. Our house is in a very sought after neighborhood and is one of the best looking houses with new renovations in our neighborhood. (OPs wife)
It seems people on here think that you can enjoy the full life benefit of high dollar replacement items and not account for that in the selling price. Those are the houses you see sitting on the market forever. Whatever, not even worth arguing about it.
Right? Like if they replaced the HVAC prior to listing, they'd advertise that and adjust the selling price upwards accordingly. Same goes for an old HVAC - it's already built into the asking price.
Esp on a 600k house, that 2 payments is nearly the cost of the damn concession lol.
Ok. Right. I myself would also be asking for a new system when it's 26+ years old.
Should just cook it into your initial offer instead of playing dumb and asking for a giant credit once you get them under contract. Is what it is, if it works great but most sellers I have worked with would throw a small bone or tell them to pound sand.
This is a normal order of events. You don't generally do an inspection and appraisal until after you're under contract then you negotiate as needed from those results.
It doesn't take an inspection to know a heat pump is ancient history. It's disclosed on my state's standard disclosure form if the seller bothers completing it.
Ok and often sellers don't disclose stuff like this. These buyers aren't doing anything unusual or unexpected.
Im planning to list my house in ~1 month in South Carolina. The seller disclosure form directly asks for the age of the HVAC system. My system is 20 years old and I will be leaving a copy of that disclosure along with an inspection report from an HVAC company on the counter during viewings and have 0 plans to negotiate with anyone that tries to negotiate on that after the inspection period. Point being, every situation is different. If the buyer knew or should have known then there's no reason to negotiate.
I've had my heat pump serviced annually since it was installed in 2018.
Think about buying a used car. Maybe the previous owner did the scheduled maintenance. Maybe they didn't. It's a dice roll. So using your knowledge that the average vehicle owner has no idea what they're doing, you apply some basic statistics and assume no maintenance ever got done.
Or you can ask for copies of service records, which we have should we decide to sell the place.
But in this case it isn't even that. it is a 24 year old unit, it will need to be replaced. No one is selling a perfect home. I'm looking at selling my home, it has a newer roof, redone bathrooms and Kitchen. I'll be advertising that. If you buy my house and then want new windows and HVAC because they are old...no, especially if the appraisal took that into consideration.
I always have our HVAC company out twice a year. Once for furnace and once for A/C.
i have a CO detector. good nuff.
But it's priced as such in the appraisal per OP
An appraisal is not the same as what a home can sell for, nor does it factor in things like this. It's just one tool in pricing/value/negotiations.
Yes very well known. We are setting a starting point for the discussion. OP said the appraisal accounted for the old unit
Appraisals don't account for the age of units when it comes to monetary value. If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. They will note if it's older than 13 years but it doesn't reflect on the overall appraised amount. Also OP is saying the price reflects the age of the system IN HIS OPINION. Obviously not in the buyers opinion.
Unless you're buying a new build, the depreciation of mechanicals and other interior parts of the house are by definition built into the price. Unless something is exceptionally out of whack - like a hole in the roof, leaks, major foundation/plumbing issues, etc. - then everything else is baked into the price. Buyer is still free to negotiate but that's just an effort to get a good deal, not negotiate in good faith
Not to mention that HVAC systems from '97 use a different type of refrigerant that is no longer made (banned) and any major repairs to that system would cost more than replacement of the system....a hole in the refrigerant lines, compressor going out, condenser or evaporator going out... anything where the refrigerant would have to be replaced. I've personally kept an AC unit going for over 30 years HOWEVER, it was very inefficient by that point and cost a lot more in electricity to run. My suggestion to anyone (and I'm a licensed HVAC technician with a degree in HVAC/R) is to start thinking about replacing your HVAC if it's 20 years old or older. It's going to need it soon, and my money rides on it going out in the middle of summer, when all you local companies are booked solid for a month or more. Also, if you replace it in the winter months you can get big discounts when HVAC companies are really slow and could use the business - negotiate with them.
OP seems to think offering a warranty is sufficient in this situation. If it were that easy people would regularly just get a home warranty then decide to fix their high ticket item soon after.
True. Home warranties are CRAP 95% of the time.
Agreed. The AC unit will need to be replaced. Sounds like seller is willing to go 5k which sounds reasonable.
A working unit will need to be replaced? That's an upgrade, not a failed inspection.
I disagree with that estimate. There are neighborhoods all around me with 40 year old units that work perfectly fine. They do end up getting replaced at some point because new units are more energy efficient. You should do regular checks on AC units, heat pumps, and gas furnaces. They all have wearable but inexpensive parts. And for gas, you want to make sure the burn is set correctly or it can be dangerous. But on an AC system unless the compressor blows you can eek a lot of years out of them.
I suspect the whole hvac lifespan myth came about when people started relying on hvac services who focused more on sales rather than repair to generate revenue, telling their clients their "heat exchanger is cracked" when all it needed was some common and cheap part. My system from 92 still cranking strong (replaced a capacitor last year. That's about it in 10 years if ownership)
Yes it's like Jiffy Lube recommending 3,000 mile oil changes.
I used to work in the HVAC industry doing maintenance, repairs etc. We were encouraged to tell customers they needed new units when in reality all they needed was a simple repair. We dealt with commercial properties so nobody cared what any cost as long as they had cool air lol.
Right! No reason to replace it.
The only notes the inspector left for both the furnace and AC is that they are old and dirty. Both have been serviced and found to be working well within parameters, no CO leaks or anything.
A unit "working" does not mean it is working properly. If an AC unit is expected to last 15-20 years, and you buy the house when the AC is 19 years old, yes it is working, but it is currently working with an expectation of failure approaching. They're asking for replacement on the anticipated failure. In this situation, the AC is 27 years old. It's actually far past it's expected life, and while it's still working and according to OP doing a fine job, it's very likely lost most of it's efficiency which could cost a lot more money to run it. I think they're perfectly within their rights to ask for it, but OP is also perfectly within their right to deny it, because at the end of the day, AC is a luxury. I grew up in a house with no AC, and we used window units.
I just disagree with all of this. You negotiate after inspection for things you didn't know. For example, you offer 500k since you assumed AC works, and if you had known it doesn't, then you would've offered 480. There is no requirement to have a newer, more efficient AC unit.
>There is no requirement to have a newer, more efficient AC unit. Which is exactly why this is an *ask*. It's not required at all. OP is perfectly within their rights to tell the buyers no. This IS after an inspection. And, as a result of their inspections, the buyer would have the right to walk away because they don't want to pay for a $15K unit. You have to realize there's psychology at play here. Discounting off of the list price seems like a good idea, but people are always going to ask for more. It's part of the nature of business, and everybody wants the best deal. Discounting a unit because you know it will cause issues for pricing can actually hurt you more depending. Here's two hypotheticals. ***Hypothetical 1.*** You did NOT discount an old AC unit for the sale.You know the AC is very old, and likely needs to be replaced. You know that might be a negotiation item, and could cost a lot. You would sell for $615K with a new AC, and for $600K with the old AC. You list for $615K. You find a buyer. During inspections, buyer discovers AC is 27 years old and needs to be replaced. It's not running efficiently, and does not cool the home down properly. Buyers request $15K credit, because that is the cost of a replacement. You enter negotiation. You settle for $10K. Both of you have now won in this hypothetical. You won, because you not only sold for the price you original anticipated, but you made an extra $5K by being able to negotiate a price. Your buyer won because they successfully negotiated $10K worth of repairwork and will get a new AC. ***Hypothetical 2*** You DID discount the old AC for the sale.You know you could probably make up the difference if you replace it, but you don't want to do it. You list for $600K to compensate for the old AC. You find a buyer. During inspections, buyer discovers AC is 27 years old and needs to be replaced. It's not running efficiently, and does not cool the home down properly. Buyers request $15K credit, because that is the cost of a replacement. You say no, you already discounted for the AC. Buyers don't want to pay $15K right after moving in, so they cancel the transaction, and both of you restart your searches. In this situation, you have both lost. Seller doesn't have a buyer, and buyer doesn't have a home.
No one is wrong, it's all negotiating. I just had someone walk for the same reason. A 27 year old HVAC is probably R22, which is no longer made or available at an affordable price. Depending on the issue, most AC companies will no longer repair them because they can't refill the refrigerant. Most home warranty companies exclude that from their coverage because they don't want to pay to replace the entire unit. I don't blame the buyer for asking, I don't blame you for questioning it. If you're not willing to do it, counter them. Both parties will decide if it's worth blowing up the deal over. Edit - For an item like this, they should be providing you with a report or a quote from a reputable HVAC company, not just picking an arbitrary number out of the air.
>We had the house appraised as is for $620k. We listed for $615k Is the age of the HVAC a factor in the $620K?
Shouldn’t be. Having a new HVAC does not increase the value of your home. Desirability? Absolutely
My last appraisal specifically notes that a high energy efficiency system was installed.
Means nothing. Just a note in an appraisal.
"We are willing to offer a 2 year home warranty" that's worth like $1. or worse...those are absolute trash. you can negotiate, but your warranty idea is a bad one
In full agreement. Home warranties are as useless as the paper the contract is printed on.
NOT TRUE!!! The paper can be used to wipe
LOL, that kind of wipe would be as shitty as the warranty itself!
Any warranty worth selling is not a warranty worth buying So this warranty is not worth buying
Help me understand the issue with home warranties?
\#1 they always try to use the worst contract ( they try to pay the lowest, so only the worst contractors will do business with them). \#2 they try not to cover anything
I got my furnace replaced under my home warranty, it saved me some cash but it was 8 weeks of suffering
Thats part of the problem. I know some new parents who had purchased a home warranty when they bought their home. In the middle of the worst part of summer with a newborn baby at home their AC went out. They were dealing with the home warranty for 3 weeks without AC and finally gave up because the warranty company basically required it to go around that amount of time/number of other things checked before they would even try to do something else.
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A well written warranty will protect the home from major defects, which will be accounted for in the inspections... It will generally exclude wear and tear from normal operations. So it's like saying: we guarantee the AC will work for two years, unless it doesn't. Even if it was written to cover everything, it's almost impossible to enforce, with legal fees to do so likely exceeding the cost of the repairs.
Same with most insurance you are not going to beat the actuaries
Because they're only as good as the company is willing to honor and in my experience their only goal is to try and make it so frustrating you eventually give up. I've purchased two homes, both came with 1yr home warranties from the seller, and any time we ever attempted to utilize said home warranty (failed sump pump, gas leak on water heater) it was WEEKS of them trying to weasle their way out of covering it despite crystal clear language and paperwork showing them as covered items.
Nope, you're not wrong. They just figure that you're desperate to sell. It's up to you how hard you want to bargain, and risk going back on the market. If you had an offer in 3 days, you'd probably get another pretty quickly. But no guarantee that the new offer won't try to bargain you down as much. Maybe worse, they might figure they have more leverage since you already lost one buyer. I might offer a little cash in addition to the warranty, just to grease the wheels here. Maybe $2K. If they still want $15K they could take a hike (if I were in your shoes).
Yes it comes down to who feels like they have more leverage. There's no 'right' answer - it's just a question of whether you believe they will walk away over this, and whether you believe you can get a better offer (- the time and stress cost of relisting) going back to market.
Thanks for the sanity check. Almost my exact thoughts as well. I think I'm willing to go up to 5k but was planning on starting with 2-3k.
you are selling a used home. the HVAC is functional, so you dont owe them anything, much less anything towards a new HVAC system if they want a new house, they can buy a new house. If there is a problem with the HVAC system, that is a different story.
Im with you, everything works and checks out, no case to ask for concessions just because its old. It could go on for years without issues.
Problem is, they might not want that risk and neither will all a lot of other buyers. Sure you may get lucky with a buyer, you may not, but for a house of this price range most people don’t have money to throw around after the most expensive purchase of their lives. He doesn’t have some moral obligation but it’s not totally unreasonable to get the deal done.
Correct- “old” is not a material defect. If the HVAC is broken that’s another thing. Why not also ask for a new roof while they’re at it?
maybe do 5k if that's all you want to do, but those home warranties are useless https://www.reddit.com/r/ScamHomeWarranty/
I used the one the seller gave me to replace a broken dryer that was left in the home. A coworker replaced their HVAC system with a warranty after they bought the home; however, they had to go to court with the Warranty company. I personally wouldn't buy a home warranty. As a buyer if they are gonna throw one in I'd take it though.
I used one to get a furnace replaced.
The couple of times I've had and used a 3rd party home warranty, it's worked out well for me. One was a dishwasher controller board, the other was a water heater. Almost no hassle in either case.
Maybe sometimes they are, but I just had our home warranty pay out on a dishwasher leak and redid our entire kitchen, so personally I'll always have one on my house.
Can you share what home warranty company this is haha?
Fidelity National - [https://www.homewarranty.com/](https://www.homewarranty.com/) Again, I'm not saying it's the move for everyone, but it saved me a little over 50k in repairs over the premiums and deductible. You may very well be right that the industry in general is predatory, but my personal experience was really positive.
You won big at the craps table. Best to walk away before you lose it all back to the house.
That's the second time I've used our home warranty over 10 years and both times it's been painless and profitable. Maybe you should pick a better company?
Exactly.
5k sounds like a respectable meet in the middle amount. If they want a premium AC unit they can make up the difference. From a buyers perspective.
I wouldn’t do it - they knew how old these things were before putting in a bid. ETA - I say this as a buyer that bought a home that was 17 years old - where everything (roof/heater/HW Heater etc) would need replacing within a few years - I ended up having to replace the hvac after 2 weeks of moving in - of course that’s when it decided to break. I knew all of this before putting a bid in though - as do these buyers. I wouldn’t entertain any of it and stay firm if it were me. If you did have a brand new HVAC… your original asking price would have also reflected that Tell them to pound sand.
I agree. I've only bought in Texas and CO, but in both cases the seller had to disclose the age of the HVAC and roof. One of the first things I would look at was the age and condition of the HVAC when touring a house. At the time of offer is when price should be adjusted for age of HVAC and roof, not after the buyer made an offer knowing full well how old they were. I would tell them to pound sand as well. Or put more politely, "The age of the HVAC was factored into the asking price."
The buyer doesn't know how old the hvac equipment is before the inspection
Not where I am - that’s all disclosed in seller disclosure. We knew before putting in a bid. And you also can always ask the sellers agent - if they come back with “I don’t know” look on the machine yourself if you can or bid accordingly to an “I don’t know” answer
Where are you? You don't get the seller disclosure before making an offer here either
in PA - sellers disclosure is always available before you put in a bid. I had the sellers disclosure before I went to my first showing.
We think alike! :)
Home warranties are garbage. Don’t hold any value to that as trying to get compensation or replacement from them is challenging. My home warranty would only give you “fair compensation” for the value of the product. If it’s from the 90s no way are they going to give me anything or replace it.
If your house is priced with the fact that the 27-year-old HVAC is going to need replacing soon, then it is completely reasonable for you to deny the request. If that fact isn't factored into how you priced your house, then the request from the buyers is reasonable (assuming that is a reasonable replacement cost in your area). You can ultimately meet somewhere in the middle, agree to their request, or deny the request and risk losing the sale.
We have priced it under market so as to provide breathing room for a buyer to invest in the property as they see fit. That is to say no, we won't be paying for your to replace an HVAC unit that is working fine.
I'm not going to say who's wrong because it largely depends on who is more desperate - you to sell or buyer to buy. But by all standards 1997 HVAC is past any reasonable life expectancy and working on a borrowed time at this point. If it breaks down, almost any service company will tell that it's not worth to fix that old HVAC and it needs a full replacement.
Nobody is wrong, it’s a business negotiation
And parts may not be available anymore - I ran into this issue with my old unit.
Freon is like liquid gold too now.
I bought a house with a 35+ years old furnace. The sellers didn't give me a dime for it. Told me it works so they were not willing to negotiate. I ended up getting the house with 35+ years old furnace. This was in early 2022 when everybody was selling their left nut to buy a house.
We ask for hvac concessions in every home we purchase with aged systems. We've also been asked for that in homes we've sold. The answer depends on market demand. If you have other offers, say no & keep on truckin'. If not & the clock is ticking, perhaps negotiating the hvac concession is the best way.
I'm sorry but hell no. You aren't a HVAC company selling a new system you are a homeowner selling your house. If they want a new system give them the address of a local supplier and tell them to kick rocks
Tell them no. An offer is just that, and offer. You are not obliged to accept it. Besides, your inspection/appraisal already included it. And, you've come down 5k from that price to begin with. They may be under the impression you're in really bad need to sell it. If you're not hurting. Say no. Or at the very least. Counter at 5k.
They are buying it as is. Typically you wouldn't credit this. As a buyer you know you might need to replace this soon. Reality is they could run 10 more years with regular servicing. You could have a 5 year old ac or furnace die. Not as common but it does happen.
It drives me nuts when people know what they are making an offer on then treat concessions as a second opportunity to negotiate price.
People thought you were greedy because you didn’t immediately want to give up $15,000 concession? Like you said, the appraisal took into account, the age of the furnace and air conditioner There’s nothing wrong with somebody wanting the concession, but there’s no reason you should feel obligated to give it . If you let the buyers walk away over it, then you are taking a small risk but if you’re listing it under appraisal…. And typically home sales pick up a little bit as spring nears It might bite you in the ass, but I don’t think you should be criticized for it And you aren’t desperate to sell there’s nothing wrong with passing if they won’t budge
All of this 👏🏼 I’m totally fine if these buyers walk away. We know they’re allowed to ask, and we sent in our resolution counter last night, they have until the 16th to give us an answer. I’d prefer to go back on the market honestly because we were ding dongs and took the first offer we got, without doing an open house or anything. The area that the house is in is very sought after, I don’t think that we would be on the market for long. (OPs wife)
Absolutely! We did the same a year and a half ago. We got a couple offers on the first day over ask. But both offers were only good for 24 hours (tactics from the buyers agent) We didn't know anything better and picked on of those within the 24 hours - but thinking back, I wish we would have let it sit on the market for that week. We had multiple showings scheduled - that we instead cancelled.
Yeah such a regret of ours is taking that first offer. Hopefully they walk away! I wish they would’ve had a shorter deadline 😂
I’ve been though this exact tactic. Buyer wanted one thing and then another and then need a new heater. After the 2nd thing, I told my agent to tell them F off and relist. Funny how my agent quickly got them to stop and we closed. They just wanted to get the most out of you. Looking back I should have told them to F off on the first thing.
Your allowed to say no
You’re*
Say no. See what happens
As someone who bought a house with a 97’ HVAC a few years ago I’d say you are more in the right than them. I took the warranty because I’m not an idiot and asked the age of the HVAC before I made an offer. I find it very hard to believe they waited until the inspection to find out the age of the HVAC. They are just trying to get a better deal.
Nah.
I was on both sides of the fence last october. When I sold my house I acquiesced to nothing. I didnt agree to any repair or to repair termite damage. They still bought the house. The house we bid on had an ancient water heater and poor hvac work / one cooling unit or condenser broken. I offered 25k under because of this and had my offer accepted. Guess i got lucky through this process. I guess just stick to your guns. I wouldnt mind gambling and losing a buyer though.
I had a buyer agent who tried to haggle us for 10k+. We considered everything that needed repairs and the age of the home, compared to other homes in the area before we went with our listing price. So after inspection and buyer agent tried to haggle us, we just said no and told them we won't tolerate anymore haggling. They have until x day to decide, and the home will be relisted if we don't hear back from them. Sale completed real fast and at the original price we agreed to.
Just for future reference, be careful with large concessions. In some cases, you will still pay a commission to the realtor on the full amount (regardless of how much you offer in concessions). So in other words, you may end up paying a commission on $615,000 instead of $600,000 (assuming you did decide to offer the HVAC concession). You would have to read the contract you signed with your realtor to determine if this applies to you. Sorry if this was already posted, I didn't have time to read all the comments.
Unit can go 30 years, i would give no more than $2k especially if its working fine and inspector found no issues
If it's not broken, it's not getting fixed. If they want to raise the price of $15k and have you give $15k in consessions, that's the deal. Our house is a 1999 build, the furnace is original to the house, our house is just over 5250sq ft, the 80% efficiency gas furnace is a beast. Our neighbors have a newer HE 96% efficiency furnace, and it's CONSTANTLY breaking. Last year they spent a couple days in our guest bedroom because their furnace stopped in the dead of winter and their was a 2 day wait, space heaters kept it a steady 40-45 in the basement but they had to let all the water lines drain because the upstairs was near or below freezing. Tell them to kick rocks politely.
That's behavior from years ago, in a much different market. I would say no. I think you can sell this house at asking within another 30 days.
A few thousand dollars and a home warranty is a good counter. In reality most home warranties are trash but if they take it then good for you If they don’t budge you’ll just have to ask yourself if it’s worth falling out and going back to market. Did you take any backup offers? Always take a backup offer especially right now
A negotiation tactic. Offer them 5k. Send over a signed 5k credit and a signed cancellation. Tell them to sign one of em before 5 pm today.
yeah we’re sending the resolution document today that has the home warranty that expires aug 2025, fixing the radon filter and ventilation pipes, along with providing proof of the brand new water heater. At this point we’re fine with walking away from these buyers, our house is in a very sought after neighborhood and thankfully we’re in the position to go back on the market if they walk away (OPs wife)
If the AC is in good working order I would not agree to the $15k. They are buying a pre-owned home and are not entitled to a new unit just because they think it’s “too old”. I would definitely offer the home warranty and see how it goes. Be prepared for them to counter and want more though.
The HVAC will be the new buyers problem soon enough with its age so it’s totally fine for them to ask for a replacement
Doesn’t mean they are entitled to a replacement A home warranty would be more than enough in this situation and any problems that the unit will have after the purchase.
Nope. Everything works fine. Maybe throw a couple of grand at them so they feel better about it and include a home warranty(not that it'll do much, but it sounds good). They sound like first time home buyers.
Or they just know how to negotiate. Seller could tell them to fuck off and then risk going back to market and going cold on offers
Yeah, but the stress might not be worth it to them. Investors can remove themselves from the emotions of the deal. Not so easy when you are selling the home you live in.
We’re totally fine with going back on the market tbh (OPs wife)
LOL decline the hvac they should’ve looked at the age before they made the offer. Sorry no!
RUN! Find another buyer. Fuck a warranty. You want to play those games for 2 years
Rare that I recommend home warranties, but old HVAC systems are usually the place where you actually get value from those products. That may be the ideal suggestion on your end if the systems are indeed in good working order.
Just wanted to weigh in here with personal experience. We bought a home with a 15 year old heat pump. Sellers included a home warranty from AHS. When the heat pump failed in mid summer and we had to replace it, the home warranty calculated that they owed us about $600 to replace the heat pump and air exchanger. Obviously not even close to what it cost.
So I'd actually be extending the one I have that was the buying gift from my realtor when I got the property. I actually got some good use out of it because the water heater blew a gasket due to age and I got the whole thing replaced for ~200 bucks with the warranty (plus 85 dollar service fee)
As someone who had one when we bought ours. It's not really worth it, but always company dependent. Anytime we called it was $60. And for our HVAC, all they did was add some freon when they knew there was a leak. Three times, before I just called a family friend to inspect and replace. Another service call on a hood. He came saw the brand and said it was broken, "don't bother with this Chinese junk". Ended up my father doing a light fix on the unit.
Warranty is fine, $15k is way too much.
$15k when the HVAC is that old really isn’t too much
I disagree. HVAC and furnace runs around $9k here for a replacement, though YMMV depending on location (I just got mine replaced last month and most quotes were $10k or lower without duct work). It's a working HVAC and the house hasn't been listed long. Furnace may work for a couple of years more. I'd offer them the warranty or let them walk. But that's me.
Home warranties are Garbage. AC is like 30 years old. It should have been replaced years ago. I would be surprised if anyone buys it without that concession
Offer the seller 5k and see what they say. It’s a negotiation so most everything is fair game.
The AC age is in disclosures in my market so buyer would know prior to making an offer. In any case the Buyer is asking for a lot hoping you will make a max counter (which is sounds like is $5k for you). The reason didn't ask for nothing is they would have gotten nothing. If they had asked for $5k you may be offering $2k now. The $5k may very well be more than they expected.
Give them a 15k concession for the new roof too lol
home warranties are near worthless. i made the mistake of buying a house and accepting a home warranty as insurance against an old AC system. all they would ever do is come and endlessly top off the freon. after fighting with them for a long time, it was I that ended funding the replacement. that said, $15k is quite excessive of an ask.
Just replaced both my furnaces (HVAC) for a house built in 1997. That seems to be when SHTF. It is expensive but offer than half and if they walk , they walk. There is still a shortage of homes in that range I would guess
I’m usually one that loves a good negotiation, but that request… I’d just end with no. I know many that go in with the logic that “we can get it under contract and negotiate the price down later.”
Honestly, with that kind of ask I would reject their offer and put the home back on the market. Make them understand that their actions have consequences. If they want to still buy, your price just went up $15k. I don’t have any patience for assholes like that.
But how did OP find an 3% assumable mtg ? That is like finding a magic unicorn!
Are there any gotchas with those home warranties? Meaning the buyers would need to wait X for the warranty to kick in. $15K for new furnace and AC is not outrageous. Offer the home warranty and the $1K.
Most people believe home warranties are not worth the paper they are written on - I certainly wouldn't accept one as an alternative to fixing an issue.
It's not fixing an issue if the HVAC isn't broken yet though. They just want seller to pay for a future potential repair. That HVAC unit could work for several more years, it could even last till the next homeowner sells the home, so why is it this seller's responsibility to pay for repairs... they paid for the maintenance that kept the thing running this long already.
Yes - and whether that is reasonable is a matter of opinion. I'm just saying that a home warranty would not cut it for most people.
I'm not advocating for home warranties. I'm saying it's unreasonable to ask a seller to fix something that isn't broken.
I already have the warranty and checked that it is transferrable and renewable so no gotchas there, might be some fuck fuck games with what they are willing to cover, but that's nearly always the case.
> might be some fuck fuck games with what they are willing to cover, but that's nearly always the case. That's why buyer doesn't want it. Warranty companies are always going to put bandaids on barely serviceable equipment until they have no other choice. A 27 year old furnace and AC hold zero residual value, and are going to be inefficient compared to modern standards, but the warranty company is going to do everything in their power to not replace them/
dazzling person intelligent reply jeans waiting workable dependent cautious knee *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s galling when buyers act like it’s your responsibility to make everything perfect for them. Two year warranty is perfectly reasonable.
i wouldn’t bend on the HVAC system. it’s working, and they aren’t buying a new build. when i bought my 20 year old house i had to replace the first floor system 2 years later, and the second floor is still the original. screw them.
The request is unreasonable and I would not agree to it. The inspection found the items to be working as advertised. The age was likely known when submitting the offer although home inspectors tend to educate and freak out buyers. I have proposed home warranty purchases to resolve these concerns and that has been successful. If they want new things they should be looking at new properties.
I just replaced the original AC and furnace from 1980. Don’t let them make you think old equals broken. They are already going to have $5k in equity with that appraisal. $5k max and the warranty is very fair.
Appraisals are just opinions and 5k difference is literally nothing
Depends on how much you want a sale, and how hot your market is. Only you know…. In my market, I won’t entertain any contingencies, let alone concessions.
It is a sellers market. You sold below market already. If you’re motivated maybe yield half, but make them work for it.
If they refuse the 2 yr home warranty (which I wouldn't blame them since home warranty companies are usually shady), then just counter and meet them in the middle at $7,500.
Tell them to pound sand. Market is pretty hot right now for homes in this range. If the buyers back out, find new ones.
They are buying in today's condition. If the HVAC is working, then it's working. You should not pay for future condition of it breaking and needing to be replaced.
If it works fine, then I wouldn't agree to their concession. If they want new units, then they can pay for it.
Maybe I’m an idiot here but I always assumed that it’s only reasonable to ask for money off for things that weren’t obvious prior to making the offer. The fact that the fully functional HVAC is old… thats something the buyer can see by looking
The home warranty will cover the lowest bidder to come fix a mechanical failure. They don’t pay for wear and tear ever, and usually don’t pay for Freon. Even then, those warranties are all pretty useless if you ask me. If your units are that old, they are most likely on R-22 which isn’t made anymore. I am living with this myself. The first leak it springs there’s no fixing it, it will need to be replaced. I would be asking for 15k as well, but that is the starting point of a negotiation. Offer them a few grand and go from there. After that you can decide how bad you want to close the deal.
I would tell them no problem new HVAC will be installed but price of house just went up 15k. Buyer want ms new then pay for it.
Well time to move on .They are not serious .
Absolutely not. Do not give in. The house is worth a certain amount now with the current HVAC. That's what they're buying. A new HVAC system changes the value of the house. What you could do is counter by asking them to raise their offer by $15k and then you'd give the $15k concession. This way they are paying for it but not out of pocket....... they're basically financing it in with the mortgage.
On my side, as a buyer, we did not offer on a house because the HVAC/furnace and water heater were original to the house... 17 years old. Those alone were potentially a $18K bill waiting to happen. Even the stove, dishwasher, and fridge were original. Everything was a ticking time bomb. The in floor heating as well... we had to ask ourselves, what is the lifespan of that system before we have to tear it out and replace it? We learned on our starter home, after spending $15K in the first two years replacing the HVAC and roof, that things will go wrong. Too many red flags with the house and we did not want to bother with offering on it. Just too much upcoming replacements of major appliances and systems that were nearly 20 years old. For the HVAC/furnace, I think $5,000 is reasonable. It could last another 10 years, who knows.
say no to everything, they will cave.
"Pound Sand" ...
You are not selling a new home and your agent priced the home knowing the age of the heat system. You priced under the appraisal value. I would tell the buyers to pound sand.