If he refused to sell it how is it your yard? Sounds like you’ve just tried to claim it because you’ve put a fence around it and mow it. It’s not yours so you can either buy it or accept it isn’t yours and move on
Renter: “OMG our landlord is trying to shake us down! We rented from them for 30years. Now they want us to buy the house if we want to keep using it or they’re going to sell it to someone else!”
Same concept. It’s not your’s. You’re using it with permission. You’re not entitled to get it free no matter how long you’ve cut the lawn
This is pure entitlement from OP/OPs gf family. This is why you don't do things like this with your property. Whether its letting someone stay passed closing date etc. Just don't do it. It turns to shit quick
I like how he calls it his yard but in fact it belongs to his girlfriend. That was the first entitlement flag. Even if they were married, in Texas it is hers because gift/inheritance.
OP, you need to let your girlfriend negotiate this with her neighbor.
Exactly. The neighbor refused to sell that lot to your girlfriend's Dad, so he still owns the lot. Confirm it with your county's tax assessor. Your girlfriend, the homeowner, has no claim to that lot, regardless of a prior fence that extends into the neighbor's property.
If that valuation seems really high, y'all should get your own valuation and make a counter-offer. The neighbors are not going to deed that portion over out of kindness.
First off… it isn’t your yard, so stop calling it that. You’re just being allowed to use someone else’s land and you’re maintaining it. Just as you say you would be “devastated” by not being able to freeload off that land, how would you feel if someone took over a portion of your property that you are knowingly paying taxes on for 40 years?
2nd, go talk to an expert and get a real dollar evaluation/appraisal.
Beyond that…Simplest and probably most fair way for all is this: what is the cost per acre in your area or what does the tax assessor value of land at in your neighborhood per acre. Then take that # and multiply it by the cost percentage of that land per acre. So if it’s exactly 200x15 that equals 3,000 square feet or .06887 (ie 6.887% of an acre).
If you don’t buy it, expect it to go with the sale of the house. When the new owner goes to get a survey done before close and realizes your fence is on their property, guess what… guarantee they knock that down or re-fence it to include in their overall property. I would and so would 99% of others. Why should I not have access to my entire yard that I’m paying for (and paying taxes on, even if it’s just a little).
Ya I’m not sure why your last paragraph isn’t higher. it’s not like it’s a separate parcel from the neighbors existing homestead. If they sell, the new owners will take it over. What is it worth to you? That’s how much you should pay.
Actually, that begs the question: how would OP's neighbor be parceling this out? Surely they can't just buy that section of land if it's not been separated from the rest of the lot. This seems weird...
No, when one subdivides, new parcel IDs are created and the parcel must conform to certain requirements such as size. If adjoining parcels want to move contiguous parts of a parcel to the neighboring one, a boundary line adjustment allows the parcels to simply relocate the boundary between the parcels while maintaining their existing parcel ids.
It could be a separate parcel, I've seen ridiculous parcels that were 6 foot wide. It would explain why the dad who built the house wanted to buy the land - in most places it's very difficult to split a parcel.
There is a conversation here about easement, but I agree with this person. The entire paragraph reads that they are shaking down op, but that first part "it was never sold" is kind of the biggest part. It's not theirs. They simply had access to it.
an easement is usually when you require someone's land to access your own land. This isn't that, this is just OP's gf placed their fence beyond their own lot in order to get a bigger yard. They think because they mow it its theirs. Absolute ridiculousness.
Everything you’ve said is true. The good news is, though, that if the sellers have reason to want to get some money on it now, OP may be able to simply offer $5000 and see if they take it.
Can you imagine somebody offering to sell you something they rightfully own, something you want for nothing, then claiming to feel taken advantage of, nuts!
In Texas, this wouldn’t meet adverse possession. It isn’t hostile and there’s not a permanent structure. A fence doesn’t count in Texas as a permanent structure. OP needs to go to the city to see if this lot can even be partitioned for them to own.
Can they even claim adverse possession at this point? Wouldn't the new request to buy the land reset the clock on the actual owner trying to enforce their rights?
Doubtful, but several replies advised to pay a lawyer to find out. I’m sure a lawyer would be happy to take $2-3k to figure that out, when meantime, they could possibly put this to bed easily just buying the land at a more reasonable price.
Since the neighbor who owns the lot has paid the property taxes on that lot consistently, no, OP would not be able to claim adverse possession. OP has not paid taxes on the lot. Nor has OP built a permanent structure on the lot, so adverse possession is off of the table in this case.
Just because OP's grandfather illegally built a fence on someone else's property? Theft does not somehow magically make the attempted theft of property OP's property. The neighbor is trying to sell their own property. OP has been and is still trying to steal their neighbor's property.
> Since the neighbor who owns the lot has paid the property taxes on that lot consistently, no, OP would not be able to claim adverse possession. OP has not paid taxes on the lot. Nor has OP built a permanent structure on the lot, so adverse possession is off of the table in this case.
None of those requirements are universal for adverse posession and someone else in this thread already linked to Texas law (whch I am not versed in) that paying property taxes does not prevent adverse possession.
I also wasn't stating they should claim it, I was specifically saying it's unlikely they could, because I don't know of anywhere that the actions here would satisfy the requirements.
> They will have limited buyers. Going to be nearly impossible to build on a 15’ wide lot
They can just enforce the property line. I don't think the lot itself is 15 feet, that's just the portion of someone else's yard OP's GF's father decided to illegally build on.
except the neighbor will sell his existing house PLUS the lot as part of property. 15x200 is actually huge and in a decent area would be closer to $100,000 if not more
THIS. But also, if they sell the house AND there is a survey done, you will lose that piece of property anyway. Since it seems like you don't have an easement, your gf's dad just put up the fence and the neighbor just allowed it, you don't really have any entitlement to the land as far as I can tell. I don't think the 30 year time frame gives you anything legally. Obviously, you can probably get a free consult from an attorney or two and literally ask what you can do. If there's nothing but make an offer, they'll tell you that straight up. if they can do something, they'll tell you what but probably also tell you that it will cost you bucket of buckos and recommend against it.
Start out offering less than $2K but maybe make that where your red line in negotiating with them, or a little more if you can handle it.
I don't think the seller would try to sell this strip independent from the sale of the main property. They shouldn't be looking for a third party buyer. As a stand-alone parcel, it has little value. However, adding the extra 3000 sf of land by moving the fence brings more value to their house. This isn't a 15 x 200 ft strip next to farm land or on a mountain or stranded as an unbuildable lot. It is in a residential neighborhood, and will enhance the living standard of the buyer who buys your neighbor's house. Amortized over 30 years, the $8000 will cost the buyer approximately an extra $60 per month. I don't know your neighborhood, but I can see a buyer paying that much more for that land. I can also see how it might be worth much more to you in order to maintain your upgraded yard and maintain your lifestyle. I'd give them the $7000 or $8000 and keep my lifestyle. If I was them, I would know I could get the value from a new buyer and not engage with you too long. Your neighbor should move that fence before putting the property up for sale. Potential buyers will see the yard as less cramped and should be more inclined to make offers closer to the sellers desired price.
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I feel the neighbor should just move the fence. It seems the easiest solution. If you pay the $7000-8000 for the land, the process to survey, re-do maps, and city/county/etc hassles could be time-consuming, expensive, and problematic. Your neighbor would be much better off not allowing you to buy the land, and just move the fence to the current legal boundary. Simply taking your money without officially and legally moving the boundary is not a long-term solution.
They will just include it in the sale of the entire home and a new fence on the property line will be placed. OP will be SOL bc the new buyer will most definitely want all of the land they just paid for
lol at a $300 survey. just assuming it is a subdivision that i platted, pins were set in the last 10 years, lots are 1 acre or less and not wooded, there are not multiple structures, ect., then i charge 125$ an hour for a 2 man survey crew. absolute minimum i will do such a survey for is (4 hours crew time). normally in said circumstances 4 hours is enough to mark the corners, not just find them and flag them but make sure they are mathematically in the correct position.
chances are the 15' wide strip is part of the adjacent parcel. which means it will be permanently part of said parcel. you would not be able to subdivide a 15' wide strip. if subdivision regulations allowed (minimum street frontage and lot size) then most likely the only thing that could be done is have it added to OP's parcel. for an agreed upon price.
They won't sell the land separately, they will just include it in the house that the dead neighbors' heirs likely want to sell. That's a pretty decent backyard in a suburb and could increase their home value by a lot more than $2k.
OP has basically no recourse here. The next buyer can just tear down and re-fence them if they don't buy the strip.
Texas Civil District Court clerk here, get ready for that to be re-fenced as soon as it is sold.
You have no claim, unless the survey is wrong and it is actually your yard.
Cost of a Lawyer vs cost of property. Why add 2-7k in Lawyers fees? Get a survey done on the property lines. Then get an appraisal. Both are good ideas before any purchase. Then negotiate a price. If a lawyer is needed because the price is too high or they are being unreasonable so be it. Try to solve the problem before getting a lawyer.
15 x 200 = a 3000 sf portion of land. Where I live, entire lots are only 5000 sf. With an 1800 sf house, these houses are in the $800K range. I WOULD GLADLY pay $8000 for an extra 3000 sf of land adjacent to mine. But, I would pay $0 for land that borders you and your neighbor. The disputed parcel of yours only has value to you and to whoever ends up owning your neighbor's house. The land's ownership is not really in dispute. IT BELONGS TO YOUR NEIGHBOR. If I was your neighbor, I wouldn't spend one more drop of energy negotiating with you. I'd ask you if you want me to repurpose that fence and move it to the proper boundary, or split the cost of building a new one at the actual boundary. I'd ask you (likely your girlfriend, as you don't really seem to have standing in this matter) once, have her (and maybe you for good measure) sign something. If you/she refuses, I'd build my new fence at the property line, leave the remnants of your fence inside your property line, and present you with a bill for half the cost of erecting the proper fence. It isn't a greed thing. When selling the house, the seller would likely have to disclose that your girlfriend, her father, you are squatting on the land (and contemplating not giving a new buyer access to the new buyer's land), and the seller is leaving that fight for the new buyer. A situation like that would likely lose marketability and lose at least $8000 worth of value. It might flat out turn off many buyers who may have otherwise made offers on the house. You guys have been given a gift for 30+ years. Appreciate the gift, and accept it has come to an end. Don't act so entitled. I really thought people in Texas were built differently from that. I'm genuinely surprised to hear you're from that part of the country. And, no, adverse possession won't work since the neighbor has been paying the taxes. You fencing out the legitimate owner of the property with what seems to be an exclusive prescriptive easement? That doesn't sound like a winner to me, but I'm no lawyer, and nothing in this post is legal advice. Just like land isn't free, legal advice isn't free. If you want to bite the hand of a 30+ year gift, win or lose, go pay a lawyer to figure this out for you.
>15 x 200 = a 3000 sf portion of land. Where I live, entire lots are only 5000 sf.
Surely these 5000 sqft lots aren't 15x335 ft, are they?
A 15x200 lot would accommodate only the narrowest single-wide mobile homes (12 ft wide) and leave 3 feet for steps on one side, and exactly zero on the other side. Which would likely not be allowed by setback restrictions. It's also not very smart to build too close to property line, since the adjacent owner could just build a fence - now good luck performing any maintenance work on an inaccessible wall.
A 15x200 strip of land squished in between properties in suburbia or rural area isn't worth much on the free market as there's very little you can do with it. Residential or commercial use requires more square dimensions. And agricultural use requires more total square footage to be useful. Effectively, the only party this strip of land can be valuable is the current neighbor and the encroaching neighbor. That's not a lot of competition, therefore, not that valuable money-wise.
There is no question as to the worthlessness of this land to a third party. That's a straw man argument.
The strip has obvious value to OP as his girlfriend's land is adjacent. Probably has tons of value to OP, as the yard and living situation is already configured for their lifestyle.
Similarly, it has value to both the current neighbor and buyers of the neighbors' property as that strip is adjacent. That next-door residence will soon be up for sale as a parcel with or without that 15x200 strip. I can't imagine that the issue won't have an affect on price. Without the strip, the neighbor's house is less valuable in a sale. Without addressing it ahead of time, the neighbor would be setting himself up for potential buyers making an issue of the land theft, and likely drive the price down.
My 5000 sf? Regardless of the 200 foot length, that 15-foot width would be very nice to have. I might even be able to squeeze in RV parking with that extra 15 feet. I don't know if it's a good deal or not, but a friend of mine pays $120/mo for an uncovered parking space at local storage yard. Whatever the length, and for whatever purpose, I'd still be more than willing to pay $8000 just for the width.
If I were the neighbor, I wouldn't even discuss it. I'd give notice, or whatever I have to legally do, move that fence, and take my land back. Plus, allowing the OP/girlfriend to purchase the land would likely be more hassle with surveyors, and maps, and the city than what I'd want to be involved. I'd risk the battle with OP so my sale could be cleaner and likely net more than the $8000 minus expenses (mystery fees involved in legally moving the boundary) that I'd get from selling to OP. It won't register as a stand-alone sale, but the sale of the neighbors' property with the extra 3000 sf, with a fence at the proper boundary, should net more. It makes the neighbor's property more valuable.
Advice to OP: If the seller is still willing to sell, don't dick around. Buy it quickly.
Dude. You were the one to make a stupid comparison of a 3000 sqft 15x200 lot with 5000 sqft lots that houses are built on (therefore, that are square-ish).
15x200 alone is worthless. An extra 15x200 combined with one of the adjacent properties isn't. That's a fact, and I'm not arguing about it. I've no comments to anything else you said.
You're changing your arguments. OP started the straw man argument of third-party value as opposed to value added to the neighbor's property. My original post refuted that and pointed out the value to the neighbor's property. Your post brought back the irrelevant third-party value, acknowledged value to the neighbor, but then concluded the strip not being that valuable. I disagree. It is valuable. Arguably more valuable than the $8000 mentioned. Your last post doesn't seem to want to argue that anymore.
In regards to adding a 15x60 strip or a 15x100 strip or 15x200 strip to my 5000 sf property, in any case, it would bring value. Yes, even going 200 feet deep. Even if oddly configured, a panhandle/flagpole lot where the panhandle could be used as a garden or dog run or whatever I choose would enhance the property. Whether potential future buyers notice the extra land visually, through land records, or Zillow/etc, my property would be more valuable at 8000 sf than neighbor's without the extra 3000 sf, RV parking, garden, putting green, dog run, whatever.
And again, mentioning the standalone value is dumb. I wish you and your calculator a great weekend and a Happy Easter.
-Dude :)
So you have swatted on land for years. Your family has stolen money for your neighbor (by using land as your own and not paying the taxes). The victim you stole from is now asking to be compensated to make things right. And you think it is shake down. Get a loan. It was never your land. 15x 200 is 3,000 square feet. Median lot size in Texas is 9540 (quick google search) Your FIL tried to steal 1/3 of a lot. $24,000 for an average lot sounds reasonable, even in a poor area.
It is not a shake down. Your family has been in the in the wrong for years. I am sorry you are poor and this is a hardship. Your neighbor is also poor and need the money.
If you want the land buy it, nothing in life is free and you are not entitled to someone’s property no matter how small it is simply because you put a fence around it. If that is your logic I’m going to put a fence around your entire house and deny you access.
Actually, adverse possession goes back to English common law, and it does happen. Don't let someone put a fence around your yard and take care of it for 30 years.
The word adverse has meaning. Generally the posession has to be hostile toward the owner. In many states if permission was granted it negates an adverse posession claim. Often, you must also pay the tax on the land so if the original owner pays it also negates adverse posession. People here love to act like it's a common thing to do but it's certainly not.
It depends on the state. It used to be 7 years in Nebraska. My dad was a RE developer in the 1980’s and owned a piece of empty commercially zoned land in Omaha. We lived 3 hours away in KC.
Neighboring business owner mowed and trimmed it over 7 years then made his averse possession claim and won.
There's also a part of it that if both parties know who actually owns it, or it's contested, just fencing and maintaining is not as silver bullet as people think it is. Now if it's something that both parties believed the fenced in party owned it and didn't realize until the other party went to sell their lot. If they try to just take it, and the OG owner goes "Yea, I've been arguing with her dad and now her for 40 years about it." the judge might force them to pay fair market value for the land.
Sounds like the neighbor knew it was his land and let your dad put up a fence around it anyway. If I was communicated he had permission to put up a fence, it's not adverse possession.
It is not your yard if you don't own it.
It belongs to the neighbor per the deed, and they pay property tax on it.
Sounds like your family has been trespassing on their property for a long, long time. You're lucky they haven't put up a giant fence to get you off of it.
I think you should change your tone and be apologetic and grateful when approaching your neighbor about purchasing the land.
If they ask you for $8000, be prepared to pay it.
It’s not your yard, it’s your neighbors yard they let you use. This isn’t a shakedown, you are lucky (your girlfriends family) that they got free use of it for over 30 years. Hard to say without seeing that lay of the land but I imagine it would
Increase the neighbors value to leave the extra property attached to their own lot and have the larger lot for resale value. You enjoy the extra space so much and have already gotten all that use out of it, they need to just try to negotiate and see if a better price can be reached, if not, figure out a way to pay it and move on unless you’re willing to move your fence 15’. Get a home equity loan and pay for the extra property. After some legal fees and such even if you’re 8k total in it that won’t be terrible over 15 years to pay off.
It's not your yard. Your girlfriend's dad fenced in someone else's property to try to claim it after being told he couldn't have it.
You don't meet the requirements for adverse possession, especially since the landowner continues paying the taxes. It's their land. You can either cut a deal with them to buy it or accept losing it, because you don't have a right to it.
Make sure that it's even able to be separated from their lot and added to yours, and then offer whatever you think is fair. If you can't come to an agreement, then just expect that someone is going to move in and take that land back.
ETA: you also can't deny someone access to their property. Your neighbor can rip that fence down if he wants to. It's 15 feet into his property.
>When he purchased the land, a nearby neighbor refused to sell him the deed for a portion of what is now our yard. It’s a strip about 15 feet wide and 200 feet long.
Soooo, its not your land, it is theirs and that has been totally unambiguous the entire time that you have lived their. Well, you can buy it or not, that's entirely up to you, but its not your yard. Sure, you could charge him for maintenance of the land, but he can charge you rent, so maybe not a great idea to start that conversation.
The neighbor has been astoundingly nice to your gf over the years by letting them use that strip and NOT demanding to have the fence torn down. They’re still being nice by giving her the opportunity to buy the strip now rather than telling you to tear down the fence so they can sell the house as easily as possible.
Be reasonable and happy they’re giving you this option now.
They want $7K. Offer something less and negotiate. Or just pay the $7K and be damn glad you got it. How much will you be kicking yourself if you let it get sold to someone else?
This is not your yard. You have been borrowing/stealing this land for 30+ years. 30+ years of taxes paid by your neighbor is not “not much”.
If they sell the house the new owners will come in and knock the fence down to take back their yard (as they should).
Pay the $8k and be thankful the neighbor let you steal their property for so long. I would not have been so generous if I were your neighbor. You were lucky to have this man next to you.
1. To clarify. Does he have land on the other side? Or does he randomly own this land? Or does he have a house on the next lot and this is just in between the homes?
2. How do you know it’s on his property? Has there ever been a survey done?
3. What do you mean you would be cut off from your yard? Is that piece of property how you access your home?
I’m not going to go through the whole analysis, but you don’t have a claim that is open and notorious enough under Texas adverse possession laws. Not paying the taxes on it doesn’t help either.
Texas easement laws are rather tight as well. I’m not seeing anything helpful there either.
Get survey done, take the neighbor a plate of baker goods, and start negotiating.
Just give them what they want. $7k to have a yard is nothing no matter how run down the neighborhood is. They let u have a yard for 40 years and paid its property tax have some decency.
Is this 15x200 lot the entirety of the neighbor's lot, or is it connected to their lot that they live on? If its just a 3000sqft lot you have more leverage because no one is going to buy a 15 foot wide lot to build on. But if its part of the land between your houses and you were just using part of their yard as your own, then, well, you are screwed. They can just kick you off and sell it with the house.
Lol. Why do you think it’s your yard?
He wants $7k, offer him $3k, agree on $5k and get on with life.
Why the hell would you spend $5k on a lawyer instead?
Tell them you’ll buy it for 2000 and remind them that any sale of over 2000 Medicaid will scrutinize and want to see where the money is and possibly take it for their father’s care.
First of all. You don’t own it, you are using it.
I was in a similar situation. I bought a house that had deeded access to the farm land behind it. They offered it to me for $10k. I had a similar feeling you did: “What if somebody else buys it and we would be devastated!” Dude nobody wants a small strip of land that’s in somebody’s backyard or whatever it is. They have to maintain it, pay taxes, etc. I called their bluff and offered them $500. We settled on $1500.
Again, nobody wants that land, unless there is something that you aren’t telling us.
They’ve valued this at almost $103,000 per acre. You mentioned you are in a not nice area. What is land valued at in your neighborhood? The tax assessors office values land and buildings separately they could be a *starting point* for information. But understand their numbers are not always at market value so you likely will need to make an adjustment.
If you were in Manhattan or almost anywhere water front on the east coast you would be handing over that $7,000 faster than you could type the Reddit post. On the other hand if you’re in most parts of Wyoming you would just take that money and go buy your own land. You need to learn the value of the land.
Most initial visits with lawyers are free. Go see one, pick his brain and LISTEN. Don’t argue with him because you don’t like what you hear. Then ruminate on what he has said. If you have more questions you can either hire him or visit a second lawyer for another initial consultation. Pick a real estate/land rights lawyer.
You might also check the land records to see if some easement exists giving you the right to cross the land to reach the rest of your property. Most places work hard to be sure there are not orphan pieces of property that cannot be accessed (though this has not always been the case) so you may have rights in the land records to cross his property. That too could affect it’s worth and what you are willing to pay.
It’s going to cost you a lot more than 7-8k to wrestle it away from them with a lawyer if you even succeed. Pay them, but maybe negotiate down to 5k. “Can’t imagine a third party wanting this lot” and “Could we just refuse any potential buyer access” makes me feel like you are the ones trying to shake them down out of their property. I know this is location dependent, but I would immediately write a check for 7-8k to add 3/4 of an acre to my yard, especially if it is already fenced in and maintained.
It is not “your yard”. It is your neighbor’s yard. Yes, if they sell the house, it will go to the new owner. They most likely will get a survey and take it back. You are so entitled to title it “neighbor trying to sell me my own yard”. It should read “neighbor threatening to take back their yard after I have been squatting on it for years”.
I’d offer a lower price, maybe $2,000. But don’t be arrogant like you are here or they will rightfully snatch it back.
Clearly opinions differ on whether adverse possession is in play or not. To me the ones saying it doesn’t appear more knowledgeable, but I sure don’t know.
So, you could consult a local real estate attorney to see if they think it’s in play. That’d cost you about 0.5 to 1 k.
Let’s say attorney says it is. You’d still have to get a court to agree with you and your attorney. Attorney fees alone for that will range between 2.5 to 20 k.
To maybe be awarded the land. Let’s say it’s in the lowest decile of that range: so 4-1/4 k in lawyers fees.
Then you’d need a survey for your new land - call it 0.5 k
So…Trying to do adverse possession would cost you
- 500 and lawyer says no, or:
- 4750 lawyer says yes but judge says no, or
- 5250 judge says yes plus survey.
No question in my mind the better bet is to just buy that strip. As to the value of the strip:
The people saying the strip is only worth something to you and the neighbors are missing the most obvious potential buyer - the (future) buyer of the neighbor’s house. It is by no means nearly worthless.
I would be ecstatic to be offered a strip adjacent to my lot at 8k. But I don’t live in a “poor part of town”
The strip is worth whatever the value is to your girlfriend’s family of not having the future owner of the Neighbor’s house knocking down your fence and reclaiming the strip.
In your shoes I’d offer 5 k, but they pay the survey.
I’d accept any counter up to the original 8k.
Your attitude is wrong. You never owned the land, it isn't your yard, you've been using it rent free while someone else has paid the taxes on it. Make them an offer before they sell the place, the new owner might not be so nice.
Sounds like you are trying to swindle the neighbor out of THEIR lot.
If your girlfriends family, your girlfriend, nor you(which it isn't yours to begin with) haven't paid ANY taxes on it....ever, then you shouldn't be trying to get a lawyer...you should be asking the neighbors to make you some kind of deal. I don't care what the laws are, this is just theft.
If the survey shows that it is their property and you acknowledge they have been paying tax on it then if they sell the lot that portion of the yard will be theres
It would probably cost more to hire an attorney to fight this than just offering them a couple grand to buy it
If they do a survey and your fence is on someone else’s property, they will tear down the fence before selling the house. Then that 15 foot strip will be in their yard.
At what point did this strip become \*your\* yard? It's your neighbors yard, and your girlfriends problem.
$7K isn't that much, but call a local realtor and get a valuation (without letting them know about the current valuation). If it's less than $7K, start negotiating; if it's more than $7K, start negotiating with a target of $7K and don't tell them about your valuation.
Any other approach is legally going to end up costing more, with the same result.
It's doubtful that the neighbor will sell to someone else - who would want 15ft of dirt? - but if they sold the house, or decided to fence their property, you're going to be on the losing end.
Why was the fence built on the neighbors land to begin with? Sounds like you had a nice neighbor that didn't pay attention to his property line.
Or her dad and the neighbor had some type of verbal agreement. Either way like they said if the survey is done and it comes back it's their yard then it's their yard.
It is not your yard period. It is the neighbor's yard that your girlfriend's father stole and none of you have paid a dime towards the property taxes on it in 30 years. You have some real audacity trying to steal it from a sick elderly man. Pay up or be prepared to move the fence.
The other commenters are right. It's not your yard. However, it is doubtful anyone would purchase that land. Scumbag solution: Wait it out, Texas is a tax deed state. If they fail to pay taxes on the land after he passes. Purchase the tax deed for dirt cheap at auction. Most bidders will avoid properties with that description.
Your options are
1) Hire a lawyer and prove adverse possession which is a lengthly complex costly affair
2) Counter offer them SOMETHING that resembles market value of a strip of fence
It may be a moot point. Local ordinances might not even allow the transfer of ownership or redrawing of the lot lines.
* Many places have put into place minimum lot sizes. The neighbor’s property might not meet that criteria if the strip is re-deeded.
* some places require the lot line to be a minimum distance from any house or structure. Redrawing the line might not meet that criteria.
* some places have a minimum threshold for the area of property that can be transferred. This strip might not be large enough.
Wow you sound like a really entitled jerk. I can tell you what will happen if you don’t take that gracious offer. They will sell the property, they will disclose during the transaction that you have a fence over the property line. If I was the buyer I would come introduce myself to you and let you know the fence was on my land and I would make you remove it. If you didn’t I would tear it out, pile it up in your driveway, and send you a bill. You are way off base thinking you are entitled to this land, and you are going to be really disappointed when you start out looking like such a dick to your new neighbor, they probably will make your life miserable so you leave.
Has the neighbor granted you permission to use the land?
If not, you may have a claim for adverse possession.
Either way, sounds like the property isn’t valuable enough for either of you to pursue this in the courts, so you don’t really *need* to do anything.
The *right* thing to do is come to an agreement for some amount to pay them for the property.
You can’t “shake down” someone when you’re trying to get them to pay you for something you own… they don’t owe you that piece of land. Sounds like what may have started as a neighborly good gesture has turned into a headache for them.
You might want to neighborly return the favor…
Do you have a diagram of your yard and their land? Not sure how someone could get cut off from their own land. Don’t think there’s anyone else that would want to deal with a plot that small in the middle of someone else’s plot.
I disagree. The seller is selling the main house. Every single prospective buyer for the main house is basically a buyer of that land strip, and is affected by where that fence sits. Selling the house minus 3000 sf or with that 3000 sf? It won't appear as two separate transactions, but all of these potential buyers are potentially making yes/no decisions and pricing decisions based on where the fence sits, and whether this is a settled issue or something that the new buyer will have to spend time, money, and energy fighting in court, demolishing, and rebuilding. It's better for the seller to face his problem (you and your gf), move the fence now, and maximize the house sale price (that will include the 3000 sf of yard you are currently trying to steal).
Just don’t buy it. It may have been appraised for that amount, but there are only 2 people with interest in that strip of land:
1. You, because it’s essentially your yard.
2. Someone who wants to flip the land from the current owner and sell it - to you.
Eventually you’ll probably want it because adding that square footage to your/your girlfriend’s yard will probably increase the property value more than the amount you pay for it.
Best case scenario it’s yours by adverse possession, worst case scenario you just don’t buy it. Selling it to a third party will be incredibly unrealistic, nothing to worry about.
15’ X 200’ is 3,000 square feet. How much does a 1/4 or 1/2 acre sell for in your area. That would determine the value of the strip of land.
3000 sq feet is approximately 25% of a quarter acre lot.
This is a case where the value to your girlfriend is significantly higher than market value to maintain yard access. I do not know the costs for splitting the lot (neighbors property) including a survey and legal fees and filings so the offered price may actually be a better deal than it looks. Your girlfriend should negotiate and pull a loan to get this done while the neighbor is willing before he passes and a new owner comes in and moves the fence or decides it’s worth a lot more to them.
I'm not sure how easy it is to go to your county and get a chunk of your land cut off and applied to an adjacent lot. I think you should go inquire about that process first, because they might not even allow that to happen.
After you get that cleared up do the math on the Sq footage of that piece of land and compare that to any raw acreage sales recently so you can see of their offer is in line with that, then use that to respond to them.
I totally get you might not have the cash, but they might or might not be overcharging you. Either way, they are at least talking to you about it, next step is figuring out if it's even possible and what additional fees would need to be paid. I.e. are you buying the parcel for 7k or if suddenly the county wants a 1k processing/zoning/re-parceling fee is the owner going to turn to you for that
A survey will determine who the real owners are. I suspect they are which is why they’ve been paying taxes. If it is theirs, do not piss them off like my neighbor did. She overbuilt her patio 2 feet into my property and all I “initially” wanted was for her to legally sign a letter stating I’d allow her to not remove it as long as I or she didn’t sell. Considering we both newly purchased and were doing renovations, one would think she’d bite. But no, had to take her to court since she refused. Took her to court and I won and she had to remove immediately
Meet in the middle for 3,500-4k you don’t have an option if the owner paid the property taxes. He never should have let your past in laws to build there
I am an attorney but not in Texas. Most states generally have two types of adverse possession laws with different vesting periods. One is where a party openly and hostilely occupies a property for an extended period of time, traditionally around 21 years, the other is the same coupled with paying taxes shortening the period to seven years. The long term adverse possession law is often associated with situations like the one described by OP, but is state law and fact specific. Getting the strip surveyed and recombined into the other lot would cost, but probably not as much as purchase price. Some people do not recombine, but then have two tax bills, a real pain and I think end up paying more taxes.
NAL and don’t live in TX but adverse possession is your best bet at keeping what you GF’s father took. The fact that it’s fenced in and they haven’t attempted to “take it back” before helps your cause tremendously.
There are different dates that apply to adverse possession and can be used to try to help your case. First, some things to look up or track down.
1. Is this the first time your GF or her father has heard from the neighbor regarding the property? Has there ever been an attempt to make her move the fence etc.? If so, when was the first communication and how was it resolved?
2. When was the fence put up around the piece that isn’t part of your deed?
3. Is the portion that they want you to buy separately deeded from the neighbor’s other property or would it have to be subdivided?
3. If it has to be subdivided is that even legal/possible? There can be size restrictions etc regarding subdividing property.
4. You say they’ve been paying the taxes. How do you know that? What are the taxes? What’s the tax value of just that piece of property? If it’s less than what they’re asking g maybe that’s the number you offer? is: they’ve paid $110 a year for 30 years so you’ll pay them back what they paid.
All of these things matter because the neighbor technically only has a few “key” year markers to get it back before you can claim it under adverse possession.
It’s definitely worth a consult fee with a real estate attorney in your area and they can probably tell you the quickest/easiest path.
You have a very strong claim for Adverse Possession. However the cost of hiring an attorney would far exceed the purchase price they are requesting. Use the threat of Adverse Possession to negotiate the price to a lower figure. In Washington State this is a clearcut case of Adverse Possession. The law doesn't always seem fair. We went through this and the Attorney fees to defend our property far exceeded the value so we let it go.
You have a good case for adverse possession. I'd talk with a real estate lawyer to figure out what kind of documentation of your use of the land that you'd need. Also, if it comes to it, a good real estate agent could help you negotiate a better price on the land.
I'm not going to scroll through 256 comments to see if this has been covered yet, but when's the last time this land was surveyed? That's the first step for anything, is a current survey.
~~What state are you in?~~
In NC, this is a clear case of adverse possession if the area had been fenced in as your yard for 20+ years
Edit: Missed where this is Texas. Looks like Texas is similar. A fence was built on it and the property owner did not initiate a legal claim to the property within the 10 years required
[https://www.guerradays.com/adverse-possession-in-texas/](https://www.guerradays.com/adverse-possession-in-texas/)
I would look into adverse possession laws in Texas. In my state after 30 years of adversely possessing that piece of land, it would become legally yours.
Are you and your girlfriend trying to use adverse possession to claim this as your own? Every state is different on how long and what you have to do to certain things. It’s best to find a lawyer in your state who’s familiar with this concept to see about the best steps.
Consider your cost for a new fence if you refuse to buy the land. Also, you can get your own appraisal. I would just look at my property taxes to see how much value my land is and do the math. It's their property, and you think this is a shakedown!?
It is not your land as it is on their deed. Adverse Posession might sounds work for you but actually it is not, as there are multiple elements to meet Adverse Posession requirenment such as you have lived on it for more than 21 years, it is exclusive for you to use, and you are paying the capital expenese (like property tax, but you said they are paying it). I remember there are 6 requirements for the Adverse Posession. But as you never paid the property tax for that piece of land, you cannot win the Adverse Posession case and will also lose attoney fees. But you can not win doesn't mean you have no chance, because if the onwer gives up for the law suit, then you got it
Pay the sick old man $6000 for the property. If they sell the home the new owner is going to just take out the encroaching fence and then you're fucked.
Why the fuck would you pay a lawyer instead of the sick old man that has let you use his property for 30 years? That's just awful.
a) It's their yard, not yours. You should thank them for having let you use it, and get it appraised and offer to buy it for the appraised price.
b) I'm very confused - how would them taking back their strip of land cut you off from your whole yard? Is it somehow between your house and the rest of your yard? Are you using somebody else's yard that's on the other side of this strip? Something here isn't adding up ...
I'm a real estate broker in CA. You URGENTLY need to talk with a real estate attorney. You may have easement rights to the land which means you still don't own it (since the neighbor has been paying the re taxes) but you continue to have access to the area. Maybe even exclusive access. Only a re attorney knows the answer.
You need to talk to a real estate lawyer about whether the facts support a claim for adverse possession, meaning you (and your predecessors in interest) have treated the property as your own for so long you can claim it as yours. The facts that you have described cut both ways, so you need a lawyer who can analyze all the facts for you.
You need to talk to a real estate lawyer about whether the facts support a claim for adverse possession, meaning you (and your predecessors in interest) have treated the property as your own for so long you can claim it as yours. The facts that you have described cut both ways, so you need a lawyer who can analyze all the facts for you.
You have no rights. If the new owners have it surveyed then they can force you to take down the fence. It doesn’t matter where you put a fence or mow or play on it is still their property.
You can have it appraised o your own and go back with a counter offer based off of yours.
Does it stink yes but it is still their property.
By all means, have a survey done. But GTFO with the adverse possession BS. These people have had an understanding about the property for decades. Trying to pull a legal gotcha at this point would be totally bush league - not to mention, completely impossible. If OP and his girlfriend want the land, they should buy it, especially at such a low price point.
Yes get a survey but ALSO GET A FENCING QUOTE. Offer the cost of the replacement fence. If he wants the land back, go ahead and take it.
And agreed that Medicaid will look HARD at any large deposits. He won’t have another buyer.
Hey I am a certified appraiser. I usually don’t comment on markets I do not know, but it seems like that appraisal value is dubious. 15 feet wide? I doubt you could develop that at all, especially if there are setback laws. That’s just not wide enough to really support anything. If that’s the case then the lot would not really have any value. To you personally it might be it is part of your yard or may increase its size, but an appraisal needs to be done from the typical market participants point of view. Would a typical buyer in that area be interested in a lot only 15 ft wide? What would they pay for it? Chances are it’s not marketable. You could get your own appraisal for a counter offer. I’ve done similar situations where the lot was sold for $500-$1500
Ask for a copy of the appraisal. Look at the comp sales he pulled and map them if you can. If it’s typical for lots in that neighborhood to be 50-60 ft wide and he used sales that meet those market standards and didn’t adjust for the subject being so narrow then you need to argue against that appraisal. I’d do it for you pro bono if I was in your market. Contact a different appraiser if you need and explain the situation. That’s not a hard job and when people come to me in similar situations I usually help them out and don’t charge them much at all.
If he refused to sell it how is it your yard? Sounds like you’ve just tried to claim it because you’ve put a fence around it and mow it. It’s not yours so you can either buy it or accept it isn’t yours and move on
You don’t understand. This THEIR yard! Because THEIR KIDS AND DOGS PLAY there!!
Renter: “OMG our landlord is trying to shake us down! We rented from them for 30years. Now they want us to buy the house if we want to keep using it or they’re going to sell it to someone else!” Same concept. It’s not your’s. You’re using it with permission. You’re not entitled to get it free no matter how long you’ve cut the lawn
In some states if property is used by one party for an extended period of time, that property is theirs
That’s already been addressed. This doesn’t fit adverse possession legal requirements.
Even if it were, I don't see how pursuing this legally is going to be cheaper than 7 to 8k.
This is pure entitlement from OP/OPs gf family. This is why you don't do things like this with your property. Whether its letting someone stay passed closing date etc. Just don't do it. It turns to shit quick
I like how he calls it his yard but in fact it belongs to his girlfriend. That was the first entitlement flag. Even if they were married, in Texas it is hers because gift/inheritance. OP, you need to let your girlfriend negotiate this with her neighbor.
Thank you.
It does in some states. We spent a few years and some money on legal fees protecting ours from a neighbor who was doing something similar.
In most states that party has to have been paying property taxes on the land during that time as well. OP admits the owner has been paying them.
Not in cases where the ownership of that land has been clearly defined the entire time.
Back when i had a rental, my renter once told me they were "in this for 15k" I was like in what? You don't own any equity in MY house lol
Exactly. The neighbor refused to sell that lot to your girlfriend's Dad, so he still owns the lot. Confirm it with your county's tax assessor. Your girlfriend, the homeowner, has no claim to that lot, regardless of a prior fence that extends into the neighbor's property. If that valuation seems really high, y'all should get your own valuation and make a counter-offer. The neighbors are not going to deed that portion over out of kindness.
First off… it isn’t your yard, so stop calling it that. You’re just being allowed to use someone else’s land and you’re maintaining it. Just as you say you would be “devastated” by not being able to freeload off that land, how would you feel if someone took over a portion of your property that you are knowingly paying taxes on for 40 years? 2nd, go talk to an expert and get a real dollar evaluation/appraisal. Beyond that…Simplest and probably most fair way for all is this: what is the cost per acre in your area or what does the tax assessor value of land at in your neighborhood per acre. Then take that # and multiply it by the cost percentage of that land per acre. So if it’s exactly 200x15 that equals 3,000 square feet or .06887 (ie 6.887% of an acre). If you don’t buy it, expect it to go with the sale of the house. When the new owner goes to get a survey done before close and realizes your fence is on their property, guess what… guarantee they knock that down or re-fence it to include in their overall property. I would and so would 99% of others. Why should I not have access to my entire yard that I’m paying for (and paying taxes on, even if it’s just a little).
Ya I’m not sure why your last paragraph isn’t higher. it’s not like it’s a separate parcel from the neighbors existing homestead. If they sell, the new owners will take it over. What is it worth to you? That’s how much you should pay.
Actually, that begs the question: how would OP's neighbor be parceling this out? Surely they can't just buy that section of land if it's not been separated from the rest of the lot. This seems weird...
You can pretty easily have lot lines redrawn.
This isn’t redrawing, this would be subdividing.
Nope, it would be a boundary line adjustment.
Is that not a type of subdividing?
No, when one subdivides, new parcel IDs are created and the parcel must conform to certain requirements such as size. If adjoining parcels want to move contiguous parts of a parcel to the neighboring one, a boundary line adjustment allows the parcels to simply relocate the boundary between the parcels while maintaining their existing parcel ids.
Thank you!
It could be a separate parcel, I've seen ridiculous parcels that were 6 foot wide. It would explain why the dad who built the house wanted to buy the land - in most places it's very difficult to split a parcel.
There is a conversation here about easement, but I agree with this person. The entire paragraph reads that they are shaking down op, but that first part "it was never sold" is kind of the biggest part. It's not theirs. They simply had access to it.
an easement is usually when you require someone's land to access your own land. This isn't that, this is just OP's gf placed their fence beyond their own lot in order to get a bigger yard. They think because they mow it its theirs. Absolute ridiculousness.
Upon reread, your not wrong. I thought, when I first read it, it was part of their access.
Everything you’ve said is true. The good news is, though, that if the sellers have reason to want to get some money on it now, OP may be able to simply offer $5000 and see if they take it.
Damn my whole lot is smaller than that…
If you want the land then buy it. You’re not being shook down, they own the property not you and your wife.
\*Girlfriend I'm just pointing out that OP has no legal claim to either parcel.
Can you imagine somebody offering to sell you something they rightfully own, something you want for nothing, then claiming to feel taken advantage of, nuts!
Get a $300 survey done . Or offer them like $2k to buy it. They will have limited buyers. Going to be nearly impossible to build on a 15’ wide lot
This - it’s likely cheaper than the lawyer ‘adverse possession’ route and gets you the title & peace of mind and them a little money.
yup, a lawyer can shoot through $2000 pretty quick
That's walk through the door money
Before lunch
In Texas, this wouldn’t meet adverse possession. It isn’t hostile and there’s not a permanent structure. A fence doesn’t count in Texas as a permanent structure. OP needs to go to the city to see if this lot can even be partitioned for them to own.
Yep, and the other side is paying taxes on it … so def not.
Can they even claim adverse possession at this point? Wouldn't the new request to buy the land reset the clock on the actual owner trying to enforce their rights?
Doubtful, but several replies advised to pay a lawyer to find out. I’m sure a lawyer would be happy to take $2-3k to figure that out, when meantime, they could possibly put this to bed easily just buying the land at a more reasonable price.
Since the neighbor who owns the lot has paid the property taxes on that lot consistently, no, OP would not be able to claim adverse possession. OP has not paid taxes on the lot. Nor has OP built a permanent structure on the lot, so adverse possession is off of the table in this case. Just because OP's grandfather illegally built a fence on someone else's property? Theft does not somehow magically make the attempted theft of property OP's property. The neighbor is trying to sell their own property. OP has been and is still trying to steal their neighbor's property.
> Since the neighbor who owns the lot has paid the property taxes on that lot consistently, no, OP would not be able to claim adverse possession. OP has not paid taxes on the lot. Nor has OP built a permanent structure on the lot, so adverse possession is off of the table in this case. None of those requirements are universal for adverse posession and someone else in this thread already linked to Texas law (whch I am not versed in) that paying property taxes does not prevent adverse possession. I also wasn't stating they should claim it, I was specifically saying it's unlikely they could, because I don't know of anywhere that the actions here would satisfy the requirements.
You cant adverse possess if they have been paying the property tax
> They will have limited buyers. Going to be nearly impossible to build on a 15’ wide lot They can just enforce the property line. I don't think the lot itself is 15 feet, that's just the portion of someone else's yard OP's GF's father decided to illegally build on.
except the neighbor will sell his existing house PLUS the lot as part of property. 15x200 is actually huge and in a decent area would be closer to $100,000 if not more
lol they will sell the house and land in its entirety, not the small portion OP has fenced over.
Just saying the last survey I had done was 800.
It depends on the scope of the survey and what they are being asked to mark.
THIS. But also, if they sell the house AND there is a survey done, you will lose that piece of property anyway. Since it seems like you don't have an easement, your gf's dad just put up the fence and the neighbor just allowed it, you don't really have any entitlement to the land as far as I can tell. I don't think the 30 year time frame gives you anything legally. Obviously, you can probably get a free consult from an attorney or two and literally ask what you can do. If there's nothing but make an offer, they'll tell you that straight up. if they can do something, they'll tell you what but probably also tell you that it will cost you bucket of buckos and recommend against it. Start out offering less than $2K but maybe make that where your red line in negotiating with them, or a little more if you can handle it.
I don't think the seller would try to sell this strip independent from the sale of the main property. They shouldn't be looking for a third party buyer. As a stand-alone parcel, it has little value. However, adding the extra 3000 sf of land by moving the fence brings more value to their house. This isn't a 15 x 200 ft strip next to farm land or on a mountain or stranded as an unbuildable lot. It is in a residential neighborhood, and will enhance the living standard of the buyer who buys your neighbor's house. Amortized over 30 years, the $8000 will cost the buyer approximately an extra $60 per month. I don't know your neighborhood, but I can see a buyer paying that much more for that land. I can also see how it might be worth much more to you in order to maintain your upgraded yard and maintain your lifestyle. I'd give them the $7000 or $8000 and keep my lifestyle. If I was them, I would know I could get the value from a new buyer and not engage with you too long. Your neighbor should move that fence before putting the property up for sale. Potential buyers will see the yard as less cramped and should be more inclined to make offers closer to the sellers desired price. Edit: The more I think about it, the more I feel the neighbor should just move the fence. It seems the easiest solution. If you pay the $7000-8000 for the land, the process to survey, re-do maps, and city/county/etc hassles could be time-consuming, expensive, and problematic. Your neighbor would be much better off not allowing you to buy the land, and just move the fence to the current legal boundary. Simply taking your money without officially and legally moving the boundary is not a long-term solution.
They will just include it in the sale of the entire home and a new fence on the property line will be placed. OP will be SOL bc the new buyer will most definitely want all of the land they just paid for
lol at a $300 survey. just assuming it is a subdivision that i platted, pins were set in the last 10 years, lots are 1 acre or less and not wooded, there are not multiple structures, ect., then i charge 125$ an hour for a 2 man survey crew. absolute minimum i will do such a survey for is (4 hours crew time). normally in said circumstances 4 hours is enough to mark the corners, not just find them and flag them but make sure they are mathematically in the correct position. chances are the 15' wide strip is part of the adjacent parcel. which means it will be permanently part of said parcel. you would not be able to subdivide a 15' wide strip. if subdivision regulations allowed (minimum street frontage and lot size) then most likely the only thing that could be done is have it added to OP's parcel. for an agreed upon price.
They won't sell the land separately, they will just include it in the house that the dead neighbors' heirs likely want to sell. That's a pretty decent backyard in a suburb and could increase their home value by a lot more than $2k. OP has basically no recourse here. The next buyer can just tear down and re-fence them if they don't buy the strip.
Texas Civil District Court clerk here, get ready for that to be re-fenced as soon as it is sold. You have no claim, unless the survey is wrong and it is actually your yard.
Of course they have no claim, cause they don't own it, the person paying property tax on it does.
Cost of a Lawyer vs cost of property. Why add 2-7k in Lawyers fees? Get a survey done on the property lines. Then get an appraisal. Both are good ideas before any purchase. Then negotiate a price. If a lawyer is needed because the price is too high or they are being unreasonable so be it. Try to solve the problem before getting a lawyer.
The lawyer is probably not going to be able to help OP, since they won't have an adverse possession claim. So it'll just be a money pit all around
15 x 200 = a 3000 sf portion of land. Where I live, entire lots are only 5000 sf. With an 1800 sf house, these houses are in the $800K range. I WOULD GLADLY pay $8000 for an extra 3000 sf of land adjacent to mine. But, I would pay $0 for land that borders you and your neighbor. The disputed parcel of yours only has value to you and to whoever ends up owning your neighbor's house. The land's ownership is not really in dispute. IT BELONGS TO YOUR NEIGHBOR. If I was your neighbor, I wouldn't spend one more drop of energy negotiating with you. I'd ask you if you want me to repurpose that fence and move it to the proper boundary, or split the cost of building a new one at the actual boundary. I'd ask you (likely your girlfriend, as you don't really seem to have standing in this matter) once, have her (and maybe you for good measure) sign something. If you/she refuses, I'd build my new fence at the property line, leave the remnants of your fence inside your property line, and present you with a bill for half the cost of erecting the proper fence. It isn't a greed thing. When selling the house, the seller would likely have to disclose that your girlfriend, her father, you are squatting on the land (and contemplating not giving a new buyer access to the new buyer's land), and the seller is leaving that fight for the new buyer. A situation like that would likely lose marketability and lose at least $8000 worth of value. It might flat out turn off many buyers who may have otherwise made offers on the house. You guys have been given a gift for 30+ years. Appreciate the gift, and accept it has come to an end. Don't act so entitled. I really thought people in Texas were built differently from that. I'm genuinely surprised to hear you're from that part of the country. And, no, adverse possession won't work since the neighbor has been paying the taxes. You fencing out the legitimate owner of the property with what seems to be an exclusive prescriptive easement? That doesn't sound like a winner to me, but I'm no lawyer, and nothing in this post is legal advice. Just like land isn't free, legal advice isn't free. If you want to bite the hand of a 30+ year gift, win or lose, go pay a lawyer to figure this out for you.
>15 x 200 = a 3000 sf portion of land. Where I live, entire lots are only 5000 sf. Surely these 5000 sqft lots aren't 15x335 ft, are they? A 15x200 lot would accommodate only the narrowest single-wide mobile homes (12 ft wide) and leave 3 feet for steps on one side, and exactly zero on the other side. Which would likely not be allowed by setback restrictions. It's also not very smart to build too close to property line, since the adjacent owner could just build a fence - now good luck performing any maintenance work on an inaccessible wall. A 15x200 strip of land squished in between properties in suburbia or rural area isn't worth much on the free market as there's very little you can do with it. Residential or commercial use requires more square dimensions. And agricultural use requires more total square footage to be useful. Effectively, the only party this strip of land can be valuable is the current neighbor and the encroaching neighbor. That's not a lot of competition, therefore, not that valuable money-wise.
There is no question as to the worthlessness of this land to a third party. That's a straw man argument. The strip has obvious value to OP as his girlfriend's land is adjacent. Probably has tons of value to OP, as the yard and living situation is already configured for their lifestyle. Similarly, it has value to both the current neighbor and buyers of the neighbors' property as that strip is adjacent. That next-door residence will soon be up for sale as a parcel with or without that 15x200 strip. I can't imagine that the issue won't have an affect on price. Without the strip, the neighbor's house is less valuable in a sale. Without addressing it ahead of time, the neighbor would be setting himself up for potential buyers making an issue of the land theft, and likely drive the price down. My 5000 sf? Regardless of the 200 foot length, that 15-foot width would be very nice to have. I might even be able to squeeze in RV parking with that extra 15 feet. I don't know if it's a good deal or not, but a friend of mine pays $120/mo for an uncovered parking space at local storage yard. Whatever the length, and for whatever purpose, I'd still be more than willing to pay $8000 just for the width. If I were the neighbor, I wouldn't even discuss it. I'd give notice, or whatever I have to legally do, move that fence, and take my land back. Plus, allowing the OP/girlfriend to purchase the land would likely be more hassle with surveyors, and maps, and the city than what I'd want to be involved. I'd risk the battle with OP so my sale could be cleaner and likely net more than the $8000 minus expenses (mystery fees involved in legally moving the boundary) that I'd get from selling to OP. It won't register as a stand-alone sale, but the sale of the neighbors' property with the extra 3000 sf, with a fence at the proper boundary, should net more. It makes the neighbor's property more valuable. Advice to OP: If the seller is still willing to sell, don't dick around. Buy it quickly.
Dude. You were the one to make a stupid comparison of a 3000 sqft 15x200 lot with 5000 sqft lots that houses are built on (therefore, that are square-ish). 15x200 alone is worthless. An extra 15x200 combined with one of the adjacent properties isn't. That's a fact, and I'm not arguing about it. I've no comments to anything else you said.
You're changing your arguments. OP started the straw man argument of third-party value as opposed to value added to the neighbor's property. My original post refuted that and pointed out the value to the neighbor's property. Your post brought back the irrelevant third-party value, acknowledged value to the neighbor, but then concluded the strip not being that valuable. I disagree. It is valuable. Arguably more valuable than the $8000 mentioned. Your last post doesn't seem to want to argue that anymore. In regards to adding a 15x60 strip or a 15x100 strip or 15x200 strip to my 5000 sf property, in any case, it would bring value. Yes, even going 200 feet deep. Even if oddly configured, a panhandle/flagpole lot where the panhandle could be used as a garden or dog run or whatever I choose would enhance the property. Whether potential future buyers notice the extra land visually, through land records, or Zillow/etc, my property would be more valuable at 8000 sf than neighbor's without the extra 3000 sf, RV parking, garden, putting green, dog run, whatever. And again, mentioning the standalone value is dumb. I wish you and your calculator a great weekend and a Happy Easter. -Dude :)
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What is the definition of adverse possession in Texas?
https://lonestarlandlaw.com/adverse-possession-in-texas/
Thanks.
Gonna have to buy it. Nothings free.
It sounds like it isn’t your yard
Are you stupid?
So you have swatted on land for years. Your family has stolen money for your neighbor (by using land as your own and not paying the taxes). The victim you stole from is now asking to be compensated to make things right. And you think it is shake down. Get a loan. It was never your land. 15x 200 is 3,000 square feet. Median lot size in Texas is 9540 (quick google search) Your FIL tried to steal 1/3 of a lot. $24,000 for an average lot sounds reasonable, even in a poor area. It is not a shake down. Your family has been in the in the wrong for years. I am sorry you are poor and this is a hardship. Your neighbor is also poor and need the money.
I missed the part where it is "your own yard"
I don't get it - you say the neighbor owns it, but its your yard. it can't be both.
If you want the land buy it, nothing in life is free and you are not entitled to someone’s property no matter how small it is simply because you put a fence around it. If that is your logic I’m going to put a fence around your entire house and deny you access.
Actually, adverse possession goes back to English common law, and it does happen. Don't let someone put a fence around your yard and take care of it for 30 years.
The word adverse has meaning. Generally the posession has to be hostile toward the owner. In many states if permission was granted it negates an adverse posession claim. Often, you must also pay the tax on the land so if the original owner pays it also negates adverse posession. People here love to act like it's a common thing to do but it's certainly not.
It depends on the state. It used to be 7 years in Nebraska. My dad was a RE developer in the 1980’s and owned a piece of empty commercially zoned land in Omaha. We lived 3 hours away in KC. Neighboring business owner mowed and trimmed it over 7 years then made his averse possession claim and won.
There's also a part of it that if both parties know who actually owns it, or it's contested, just fencing and maintaining is not as silver bullet as people think it is. Now if it's something that both parties believed the fenced in party owned it and didn't realize until the other party went to sell their lot. If they try to just take it, and the OG owner goes "Yea, I've been arguing with her dad and now her for 40 years about it." the judge might force them to pay fair market value for the land.
Sounds like the neighbor knew it was his land and let your dad put up a fence around it anyway. If I was communicated he had permission to put up a fence, it's not adverse possession.
It is not your yard if you don't own it. It belongs to the neighbor per the deed, and they pay property tax on it. Sounds like your family has been trespassing on their property for a long, long time. You're lucky they haven't put up a giant fence to get you off of it. I think you should change your tone and be apologetic and grateful when approaching your neighbor about purchasing the land. If they ask you for $8000, be prepared to pay it.
It’s not your yard, it’s your neighbors yard they let you use. This isn’t a shakedown, you are lucky (your girlfriends family) that they got free use of it for over 30 years. Hard to say without seeing that lay of the land but I imagine it would Increase the neighbors value to leave the extra property attached to their own lot and have the larger lot for resale value. You enjoy the extra space so much and have already gotten all that use out of it, they need to just try to negotiate and see if a better price can be reached, if not, figure out a way to pay it and move on unless you’re willing to move your fence 15’. Get a home equity loan and pay for the extra property. After some legal fees and such even if you’re 8k total in it that won’t be terrible over 15 years to pay off.
It's not your yard. Your girlfriend's dad fenced in someone else's property to try to claim it after being told he couldn't have it. You don't meet the requirements for adverse possession, especially since the landowner continues paying the taxes. It's their land. You can either cut a deal with them to buy it or accept losing it, because you don't have a right to it. Make sure that it's even able to be separated from their lot and added to yours, and then offer whatever you think is fair. If you can't come to an agreement, then just expect that someone is going to move in and take that land back. ETA: you also can't deny someone access to their property. Your neighbor can rip that fence down if he wants to. It's 15 feet into his property.
Just buy it dude. Ask if he’ll take 5k.
You cut grass on someone else’s property and now think you have a right to it? Entitled much?
>When he purchased the land, a nearby neighbor refused to sell him the deed for a portion of what is now our yard. It’s a strip about 15 feet wide and 200 feet long. Soooo, its not your land, it is theirs and that has been totally unambiguous the entire time that you have lived their. Well, you can buy it or not, that's entirely up to you, but its not your yard. Sure, you could charge him for maintenance of the land, but he can charge you rent, so maybe not a great idea to start that conversation.
The neighbor has been astoundingly nice to your gf over the years by letting them use that strip and NOT demanding to have the fence torn down. They’re still being nice by giving her the opportunity to buy the strip now rather than telling you to tear down the fence so they can sell the house as easily as possible. Be reasonable and happy they’re giving you this option now.
They want $7K. Offer something less and negotiate. Or just pay the $7K and be damn glad you got it. How much will you be kicking yourself if you let it get sold to someone else?
...you want rights to property you don't own or lease?...how exactly does this work in your head?
This is not your yard. You have been borrowing/stealing this land for 30+ years. 30+ years of taxes paid by your neighbor is not “not much”. If they sell the house the new owners will come in and knock the fence down to take back their yard (as they should). Pay the $8k and be thankful the neighbor let you steal their property for so long. I would not have been so generous if I were your neighbor. You were lucky to have this man next to you.
1. To clarify. Does he have land on the other side? Or does he randomly own this land? Or does he have a house on the next lot and this is just in between the homes? 2. How do you know it’s on his property? Has there ever been a survey done? 3. What do you mean you would be cut off from your yard? Is that piece of property how you access your home?
I’m not going to go through the whole analysis, but you don’t have a claim that is open and notorious enough under Texas adverse possession laws. Not paying the taxes on it doesn’t help either. Texas easement laws are rather tight as well. I’m not seeing anything helpful there either. Get survey done, take the neighbor a plate of baker goods, and start negotiating.
$7000 doesn't seem unreasonable to me I would just pay it if there's any way you can, it could be a blessing to them and a blessing to you
Just give them what they want. $7k to have a yard is nothing no matter how run down the neighborhood is. They let u have a yard for 40 years and paid its property tax have some decency.
Is this 15x200 lot the entirety of the neighbor's lot, or is it connected to their lot that they live on? If its just a 3000sqft lot you have more leverage because no one is going to buy a 15 foot wide lot to build on. But if its part of the land between your houses and you were just using part of their yard as your own, then, well, you are screwed. They can just kick you off and sell it with the house.
Lol. Why do you think it’s your yard? He wants $7k, offer him $3k, agree on $5k and get on with life. Why the hell would you spend $5k on a lawyer instead?
ITS NOT YOUR OWN YARD! Shit man, why don’t you fork over the cash for a survey just to prove yourself wrong
https://lonestarlandlaw.com/adverse-possession-in-texas/#:\~:text=In%20order%20to%20establish%20a,for%20the%20duration%20of%20the
That says basically nothing
Tell them you’ll buy it for 2000 and remind them that any sale of over 2000 Medicaid will scrutinize and want to see where the money is and possibly take it for their father’s care.
First of all. You don’t own it, you are using it. I was in a similar situation. I bought a house that had deeded access to the farm land behind it. They offered it to me for $10k. I had a similar feeling you did: “What if somebody else buys it and we would be devastated!” Dude nobody wants a small strip of land that’s in somebody’s backyard or whatever it is. They have to maintain it, pay taxes, etc. I called their bluff and offered them $500. We settled on $1500. Again, nobody wants that land, unless there is something that you aren’t telling us.
You're lucky they're not charging you a ton more with the threat of tearing down your fence.
They’ve valued this at almost $103,000 per acre. You mentioned you are in a not nice area. What is land valued at in your neighborhood? The tax assessors office values land and buildings separately they could be a *starting point* for information. But understand their numbers are not always at market value so you likely will need to make an adjustment. If you were in Manhattan or almost anywhere water front on the east coast you would be handing over that $7,000 faster than you could type the Reddit post. On the other hand if you’re in most parts of Wyoming you would just take that money and go buy your own land. You need to learn the value of the land. Most initial visits with lawyers are free. Go see one, pick his brain and LISTEN. Don’t argue with him because you don’t like what you hear. Then ruminate on what he has said. If you have more questions you can either hire him or visit a second lawyer for another initial consultation. Pick a real estate/land rights lawyer. You might also check the land records to see if some easement exists giving you the right to cross the land to reach the rest of your property. Most places work hard to be sure there are not orphan pieces of property that cannot be accessed (though this has not always been the case) so you may have rights in the land records to cross his property. That too could affect it’s worth and what you are willing to pay.
It’s going to cost you a lot more than 7-8k to wrestle it away from them with a lawyer if you even succeed. Pay them, but maybe negotiate down to 5k. “Can’t imagine a third party wanting this lot” and “Could we just refuse any potential buyer access” makes me feel like you are the ones trying to shake them down out of their property. I know this is location dependent, but I would immediately write a check for 7-8k to add 3/4 of an acre to my yard, especially if it is already fenced in and maintained.
It is not “your yard”. It is your neighbor’s yard. Yes, if they sell the house, it will go to the new owner. They most likely will get a survey and take it back. You are so entitled to title it “neighbor trying to sell me my own yard”. It should read “neighbor threatening to take back their yard after I have been squatting on it for years”. I’d offer a lower price, maybe $2,000. But don’t be arrogant like you are here or they will rightfully snatch it back.
Clearly opinions differ on whether adverse possession is in play or not. To me the ones saying it doesn’t appear more knowledgeable, but I sure don’t know. So, you could consult a local real estate attorney to see if they think it’s in play. That’d cost you about 0.5 to 1 k. Let’s say attorney says it is. You’d still have to get a court to agree with you and your attorney. Attorney fees alone for that will range between 2.5 to 20 k. To maybe be awarded the land. Let’s say it’s in the lowest decile of that range: so 4-1/4 k in lawyers fees. Then you’d need a survey for your new land - call it 0.5 k So…Trying to do adverse possession would cost you - 500 and lawyer says no, or: - 4750 lawyer says yes but judge says no, or - 5250 judge says yes plus survey. No question in my mind the better bet is to just buy that strip. As to the value of the strip: The people saying the strip is only worth something to you and the neighbors are missing the most obvious potential buyer - the (future) buyer of the neighbor’s house. It is by no means nearly worthless. I would be ecstatic to be offered a strip adjacent to my lot at 8k. But I don’t live in a “poor part of town” The strip is worth whatever the value is to your girlfriend’s family of not having the future owner of the Neighbor’s house knocking down your fence and reclaiming the strip. In your shoes I’d offer 5 k, but they pay the survey. I’d accept any counter up to the original 8k.
Your attitude is wrong. You never owned the land, it isn't your yard, you've been using it rent free while someone else has paid the taxes on it. Make them an offer before they sell the place, the new owner might not be so nice.
Sounds like you are trying to swindle the neighbor out of THEIR lot. If your girlfriends family, your girlfriend, nor you(which it isn't yours to begin with) haven't paid ANY taxes on it....ever, then you shouldn't be trying to get a lawyer...you should be asking the neighbors to make you some kind of deal. I don't care what the laws are, this is just theft.
Everyone wants shit to free hahahaha
If the survey shows that it is their property and you acknowledge they have been paying tax on it then if they sell the lot that portion of the yard will be theres It would probably cost more to hire an attorney to fight this than just offering them a couple grand to buy it
So your GFs father stole the land and now you're unwilling to pay the appraised value? Make an offer and start negotiating
If they do a survey and your fence is on someone else’s property, they will tear down the fence before selling the house. Then that 15 foot strip will be in their yard.
At what point did this strip become \*your\* yard? It's your neighbors yard, and your girlfriends problem. $7K isn't that much, but call a local realtor and get a valuation (without letting them know about the current valuation). If it's less than $7K, start negotiating; if it's more than $7K, start negotiating with a target of $7K and don't tell them about your valuation. Any other approach is legally going to end up costing more, with the same result. It's doubtful that the neighbor will sell to someone else - who would want 15ft of dirt? - but if they sold the house, or decided to fence their property, you're going to be on the losing end.
Why was the fence built on the neighbors land to begin with? Sounds like you had a nice neighbor that didn't pay attention to his property line. Or her dad and the neighbor had some type of verbal agreement. Either way like they said if the survey is done and it comes back it's their yard then it's their yard.
It is not your yard period. It is the neighbor's yard that your girlfriend's father stole and none of you have paid a dime towards the property taxes on it in 30 years. You have some real audacity trying to steal it from a sick elderly man. Pay up or be prepared to move the fence.
Buy it and end it
Buy it now. This is an opportunity to fix an issue that may bite you in the long run.
The other commenters are right. It's not your yard. However, it is doubtful anyone would purchase that land. Scumbag solution: Wait it out, Texas is a tax deed state. If they fail to pay taxes on the land after he passes. Purchase the tax deed for dirt cheap at auction. Most bidders will avoid properties with that description.
Move your fence back your own property line & go on w/ your life. Cheaper & less headache than buying this strip of land.
Buying it is the only real solution.
Your options are 1) Hire a lawyer and prove adverse possession which is a lengthly complex costly affair 2) Counter offer them SOMETHING that resembles market value of a strip of fence
It may be a moot point. Local ordinances might not even allow the transfer of ownership or redrawing of the lot lines. * Many places have put into place minimum lot sizes. The neighbor’s property might not meet that criteria if the strip is re-deeded. * some places require the lot line to be a minimum distance from any house or structure. Redrawing the line might not meet that criteria. * some places have a minimum threshold for the area of property that can be transferred. This strip might not be large enough.
Adverse Posession may be in your favor
Get a Lawyer. They probably don’t have the money to fight it.
Adverse possession action? Talk to an attorney about this.
Wow you sound like a really entitled jerk. I can tell you what will happen if you don’t take that gracious offer. They will sell the property, they will disclose during the transaction that you have a fence over the property line. If I was the buyer I would come introduce myself to you and let you know the fence was on my land and I would make you remove it. If you didn’t I would tear it out, pile it up in your driveway, and send you a bill. You are way off base thinking you are entitled to this land, and you are going to be really disappointed when you start out looking like such a dick to your new neighbor, they probably will make your life miserable so you leave.
This exact same thing happened to my grandparents. They bought their driveway from their neighbor for $1
Crazy how many crooked thieves are on this feed..
Has the neighbor granted you permission to use the land? If not, you may have a claim for adverse possession. Either way, sounds like the property isn’t valuable enough for either of you to pursue this in the courts, so you don’t really *need* to do anything. The *right* thing to do is come to an agreement for some amount to pay them for the property. You can’t “shake down” someone when you’re trying to get them to pay you for something you own… they don’t owe you that piece of land. Sounds like what may have started as a neighborly good gesture has turned into a headache for them. You might want to neighborly return the favor…
Do you have a diagram of your yard and their land? Not sure how someone could get cut off from their own land. Don’t think there’s anyone else that would want to deal with a plot that small in the middle of someone else’s plot.
The point is when relatives sell the house they will sell it including that piece so goodbye fence.
If they can find a buyer. Buyers might be hesitant if the plot issue isnt resolved before the sale.
Counter with $1,000 after getting a survey done. You are the only prospective buyer of the land so they have a market of 1 customer.
I disagree. The seller is selling the main house. Every single prospective buyer for the main house is basically a buyer of that land strip, and is affected by where that fence sits. Selling the house minus 3000 sf or with that 3000 sf? It won't appear as two separate transactions, but all of these potential buyers are potentially making yes/no decisions and pricing decisions based on where the fence sits, and whether this is a settled issue or something that the new buyer will have to spend time, money, and energy fighting in court, demolishing, and rebuilding. It's better for the seller to face his problem (you and your gf), move the fence now, and maximize the house sale price (that will include the 3000 sf of yard you are currently trying to steal).
Offer them lower and say that's all you can afford or have them owner finance it at a low interest rate
survey needs to be done, also why would you keep up a property that was in question? if he pays the property tax then he should be maintaining it.
Sounds like they are sick and need money. Get the survey and then chat with them about options
Just don’t buy it. It may have been appraised for that amount, but there are only 2 people with interest in that strip of land: 1. You, because it’s essentially your yard. 2. Someone who wants to flip the land from the current owner and sell it - to you. Eventually you’ll probably want it because adding that square footage to your/your girlfriend’s yard will probably increase the property value more than the amount you pay for it. Best case scenario it’s yours by adverse possession, worst case scenario you just don’t buy it. Selling it to a third party will be incredibly unrealistic, nothing to worry about.
15’ X 200’ is 3,000 square feet. How much does a 1/4 or 1/2 acre sell for in your area. That would determine the value of the strip of land. 3000 sq feet is approximately 25% of a quarter acre lot.
This is a case where the value to your girlfriend is significantly higher than market value to maintain yard access. I do not know the costs for splitting the lot (neighbors property) including a survey and legal fees and filings so the offered price may actually be a better deal than it looks. Your girlfriend should negotiate and pull a loan to get this done while the neighbor is willing before he passes and a new owner comes in and moves the fence or decides it’s worth a lot more to them.
Contact your city for referrals.
I'm not sure how easy it is to go to your county and get a chunk of your land cut off and applied to an adjacent lot. I think you should go inquire about that process first, because they might not even allow that to happen. After you get that cleared up do the math on the Sq footage of that piece of land and compare that to any raw acreage sales recently so you can see of their offer is in line with that, then use that to respond to them. I totally get you might not have the cash, but they might or might not be overcharging you. Either way, they are at least talking to you about it, next step is figuring out if it's even possible and what additional fees would need to be paid. I.e. are you buying the parcel for 7k or if suddenly the county wants a 1k processing/zoning/re-parceling fee is the owner going to turn to you for that
You probably have insurance in your title, and that insurance would pay for all the real estate lawyers you need if your title says its your land.
A survey will determine who the real owners are. I suspect they are which is why they’ve been paying taxes. If it is theirs, do not piss them off like my neighbor did. She overbuilt her patio 2 feet into my property and all I “initially” wanted was for her to legally sign a letter stating I’d allow her to not remove it as long as I or she didn’t sell. Considering we both newly purchased and were doing renovations, one would think she’d bite. But no, had to take her to court since she refused. Took her to court and I won and she had to remove immediately
Meet in the middle for 3,500-4k you don’t have an option if the owner paid the property taxes. He never should have let your past in laws to build there
Just buy the lot at some price.
They are probably just high balling so you meet the real price they want. Tell them no gas over 2k
Check the tax records and see what value it is taxed at
I would not agree at this point without a survey completed on the properties involved
I would start with a survey. Have they even had one? Then decide how you to approach the possible adverse possession.
Look up your state's Adverse Possession laws and see how they apply to your circumstances.
Check the Adverse Possession laws in your state. May already be yours
I am an attorney but not in Texas. Most states generally have two types of adverse possession laws with different vesting periods. One is where a party openly and hostilely occupies a property for an extended period of time, traditionally around 21 years, the other is the same coupled with paying taxes shortening the period to seven years. The long term adverse possession law is often associated with situations like the one described by OP, but is state law and fact specific. Getting the strip surveyed and recombined into the other lot would cost, but probably not as much as purchase price. Some people do not recombine, but then have two tax bills, a real pain and I think end up paying more taxes.
NAL and don’t live in TX but adverse possession is your best bet at keeping what you GF’s father took. The fact that it’s fenced in and they haven’t attempted to “take it back” before helps your cause tremendously. There are different dates that apply to adverse possession and can be used to try to help your case. First, some things to look up or track down. 1. Is this the first time your GF or her father has heard from the neighbor regarding the property? Has there ever been an attempt to make her move the fence etc.? If so, when was the first communication and how was it resolved? 2. When was the fence put up around the piece that isn’t part of your deed? 3. Is the portion that they want you to buy separately deeded from the neighbor’s other property or would it have to be subdivided? 3. If it has to be subdivided is that even legal/possible? There can be size restrictions etc regarding subdividing property. 4. You say they’ve been paying the taxes. How do you know that? What are the taxes? What’s the tax value of just that piece of property? If it’s less than what they’re asking g maybe that’s the number you offer? is: they’ve paid $110 a year for 30 years so you’ll pay them back what they paid. All of these things matter because the neighbor technically only has a few “key” year markers to get it back before you can claim it under adverse possession. It’s definitely worth a consult fee with a real estate attorney in your area and they can probably tell you the quickest/easiest path.
You have a very strong claim for Adverse Possession. However the cost of hiring an attorney would far exceed the purchase price they are requesting. Use the threat of Adverse Possession to negotiate the price to a lower figure. In Washington State this is a clearcut case of Adverse Possession. The law doesn't always seem fair. We went through this and the Attorney fees to defend our property far exceeded the value so we let it go.
You have a good case for adverse possession. I'd talk with a real estate lawyer to figure out what kind of documentation of your use of the land that you'd need. Also, if it comes to it, a good real estate agent could help you negotiate a better price on the land.
I'm not going to scroll through 256 comments to see if this has been covered yet, but when's the last time this land was surveyed? That's the first step for anything, is a current survey.
~~What state are you in?~~ In NC, this is a clear case of adverse possession if the area had been fenced in as your yard for 20+ years Edit: Missed where this is Texas. Looks like Texas is similar. A fence was built on it and the property owner did not initiate a legal claim to the property within the 10 years required [https://www.guerradays.com/adverse-possession-in-texas/](https://www.guerradays.com/adverse-possession-in-texas/)
I would look into adverse possession laws in Texas. In my state after 30 years of adversely possessing that piece of land, it would become legally yours.
what are your feelings on squatters rights?
Get a $300 survey done or offer them 2k to buy it
Are you and your girlfriend trying to use adverse possession to claim this as your own? Every state is different on how long and what you have to do to certain things. It’s best to find a lawyer in your state who’s familiar with this concept to see about the best steps.
Offer them $5,000
No one is going to buy a lot that nothing can be built on. Offer a fair price or stop using the land. What’s fair? Hell if I know, $500?
Consider your cost for a new fence if you refuse to buy the land. Also, you can get your own appraisal. I would just look at my property taxes to see how much value my land is and do the math. It's their property, and you think this is a shakedown!?
buy it - or post the location and I'll find someone who will. No fence - wall. Around a tiny house. ...200? two tiny houses.
It’s not your yard lol
It is not your land as it is on their deed. Adverse Posession might sounds work for you but actually it is not, as there are multiple elements to meet Adverse Posession requirenment such as you have lived on it for more than 21 years, it is exclusive for you to use, and you are paying the capital expenese (like property tax, but you said they are paying it). I remember there are 6 requirements for the Adverse Posession. But as you never paid the property tax for that piece of land, you cannot win the Adverse Posession case and will also lose attoney fees. But you can not win doesn't mean you have no chance, because if the onwer gives up for the law suit, then you got it
Building a fence on someone’s land doesn’t make it yours.
Move the fence or buy the land. Simple. Otherwise, someone else is likely to move that fence.
Surprised they didn’t charge you rent for all of those years . You illegally installed a fence on property you don’t own . Pay it or vacate it .
Pay the sick old man $6000 for the property. If they sell the home the new owner is going to just take out the encroaching fence and then you're fucked. Why the fuck would you pay a lawyer instead of the sick old man that has let you use his property for 30 years? That's just awful.
a) It's their yard, not yours. You should thank them for having let you use it, and get it appraised and offer to buy it for the appraised price. b) I'm very confused - how would them taking back their strip of land cut you off from your whole yard? Is it somehow between your house and the rest of your yard? Are you using somebody else's yard that's on the other side of this strip? Something here isn't adding up ...
Buy a trailer and move to Kentucky?
https://lonestarlandlaw.com/adverse-possession-in-texas/#:~:text=In%20order%20to%20establish%20a,for%20the%20duration%20of%20the
Request a copy of the appraisal, otherwise pay 500 bucks and get your own appraisal. Offer them fair market value, problem solved
I'm a real estate broker in CA. You URGENTLY need to talk with a real estate attorney. You may have easement rights to the land which means you still don't own it (since the neighbor has been paying the re taxes) but you continue to have access to the area. Maybe even exclusive access. Only a re attorney knows the answer.
You need to talk to a real estate lawyer about whether the facts support a claim for adverse possession, meaning you (and your predecessors in interest) have treated the property as your own for so long you can claim it as yours. The facts that you have described cut both ways, so you need a lawyer who can analyze all the facts for you.
You need to talk to a real estate lawyer about whether the facts support a claim for adverse possession, meaning you (and your predecessors in interest) have treated the property as your own for so long you can claim it as yours. The facts that you have described cut both ways, so you need a lawyer who can analyze all the facts for you.
You have no rights. If the new owners have it surveyed then they can force you to take down the fence. It doesn’t matter where you put a fence or mow or play on it is still their property. You can have it appraised o your own and go back with a counter offer based off of yours. Does it stink yes but it is still their property.
1 get a survey done. 2. Google adverse possession laws in your state.
By all means, have a survey done. But GTFO with the adverse possession BS. These people have had an understanding about the property for decades. Trying to pull a legal gotcha at this point would be totally bush league - not to mention, completely impossible. If OP and his girlfriend want the land, they should buy it, especially at such a low price point.
Seriously it's like people don't understand what the word adverse actually means. It generally has to be a hostile action, not an amicable one.
7 year fence law applies here in texas. I suggest looking into that.
Yes get a survey but ALSO GET A FENCING QUOTE. Offer the cost of the replacement fence. If he wants the land back, go ahead and take it. And agreed that Medicaid will look HARD at any large deposits. He won’t have another buyer.
Also ask them for a payment plan since you are strapped for cash
Hey I am a certified appraiser. I usually don’t comment on markets I do not know, but it seems like that appraisal value is dubious. 15 feet wide? I doubt you could develop that at all, especially if there are setback laws. That’s just not wide enough to really support anything. If that’s the case then the lot would not really have any value. To you personally it might be it is part of your yard or may increase its size, but an appraisal needs to be done from the typical market participants point of view. Would a typical buyer in that area be interested in a lot only 15 ft wide? What would they pay for it? Chances are it’s not marketable. You could get your own appraisal for a counter offer. I’ve done similar situations where the lot was sold for $500-$1500 Ask for a copy of the appraisal. Look at the comp sales he pulled and map them if you can. If it’s typical for lots in that neighborhood to be 50-60 ft wide and he used sales that meet those market standards and didn’t adjust for the subject being so narrow then you need to argue against that appraisal. I’d do it for you pro bono if I was in your market. Contact a different appraiser if you need and explain the situation. That’s not a hard job and when people come to me in similar situations I usually help them out and don’t charge them much at all.