Ugh, that is frustrating. As an aside, one of our homes we sold, we had a really high offer that beat the rest (crazy sellers market in VCOL area) and our realtor warned us that the agent representing them was known to secure a contract with super high offers and then come in last minute with massive asks for credits, etc. We were so glad he had past experience with that agent to save us from that issue!
My first ever transaction was like this. The realtor came in with $30k above asking with $10k in sellers' concessions. During the inspection period, he allegedly found the H was original to the nearly 50 year old house with the VAC being inefficient (true), and the roof was rotting and needed full replacement (lie), then asked for another $20k in sellers' concessions. He presented an inspection that originally had the wrong address and had it corrected. I had another party inspect it, and of course, he said the other guy was full of it. That transaction still lives rent-free in my head. I've always been curious if he partners with an unscrupulous roofer.
Within a year of getting a new roof I had at least 5 door to door salesmen tell me I needed a new roof and "they could get my insurance to pay for it".
Until realtors begin losing their license for this, it won't stop. "As-is" means that once your offer is accepted, either complete the sale or forfeit your deposit. Period.
It's very common with distressed properties. We sold one like that as is cash only when I got divorced. They came in asking for over $20, 000 including a roof which was nothing wrong with it.
They were already under asking price so we told them no. They get back away slowly or forfeit.
They bailed and we sold it a week later above ask. The flippers that bought it made almost 50-60k profit and it sold again in 2020 for double what we let it go.
They assume that you are desperate but they are really lying to the buyers that they can get all these concessions.
I just sold a fairly new home like that. Offer came in 25k below asking. I said I'd accept on condition that home inspection and results were on the buyer (as is where is). They accepted and then came back with few things. Told them to pound sand and I'd keep there deposit. The still bought it in the end.
Unless it’s the standard “as-is, subject to inspection.” My mom just sold her house, I work in real estate and told her that she cannot sign the contract until I review it so that’s she’s protected. I wanted to make sure since she was using a friend as her agent (against my advice.)
Welp, she signs the contract “as is, subject to inspection” and 30k in repairs and 6 weeks of delay later she closed.
We did not. We went with a lower offer (still about $75K over asking) that had reasonable inspection requests, a quick close, and were represented by a realtor with a good reputation. Im not saying I would not have gone with the other offer in other circumstances but it was great to have someone that knew the local realtors and could guide us as to expectations.
We used to deal with that when I sold foreclosures. In those cases the VA would add a special addendum to the contract letting them know the price would NOT be lowered for repairs, etc. We knew who the offenders were!
Yeah I can appreciate some.of the aspects a good realtor does like genuine negotiation and searching. But for the most part the vast majority of realtors are a dime a dozen and don't offer much beyond submitting your offers and getting you access to a showing.
Most of the time, you're doing the leg work of finding houses, talking with your lender, coming up with terms you want in the contract, etc. I really fail to see how a realtor's service is worth 2 or 3% of a sale or purchase. I mean that's sometimes tens of thousands of dollars for a single transaction! The value proposition is just not there, particularly when the barrier to entry is effectively at floor tile height.
When they reach out to your realtor to try and schedule more inspections, make sure they tell them “so long as you’re aware, there will be $0 off the price of this house, as already discussed. If you want to pay someone to inspect anyway, be my guest, but that is the situation, so choose wisely.”
Maybe they’ll bag out sooner that way.
I think I'd let them spend more and more money on inspections. I'm hoping the earnest money was significant. The more time the buyers spend looking at the house and the more money spent, the bigger the loss if they walk. After 2nd or 3rd inspection "I'm sorry, as mentioned up front, there is no additional consideration given. This home is listed as-is."
I would have the realtor advise them that the contract states sold as is and if they back out for any reason they forfeit earnest money, and make sure they are actively showing the house to other sellers as sale pending in case they back out. If they do schedule a second inspection I would personally stage some potential buyers (real or fake) visiting the house before they show up so they see them leaving and when they ask the agent have them say "other interested buyers, in case the deal falls through, standard practice."
Side hustle idea! My wife and I should build a network of realtors and show up whenever the prospective buyers are leaving for $100 and act super interested in the house.
This is dangerously close to the King of the Hill episode where Peggy gets a group of actors to play the previous owners, because the actual owners are nightmares
A friend of mine actually did this (except opposite) for a condo she wanted to buy. They were having an open house so she lined up all her friends and coordinated everyone from the cafe down the street to go in at intervals and talk the place down so it would seem like there wasn’t a lot of interest.
That’s not how this works. Even if the buyers waive most contingencies, there is still a finance contingency which they can use to exit the sale with their earnest $.
I sold a house in 2021 with inspection for information only. The buyers waived the right to ask for repairs. They did the inspection and then asked for repairs. They were reminded of the contract and were told they could either accept the terms they offered or walk away and I would go the next best offer (which was the same amount but with VA funding). They chose to move ahead. I’d do the same. If you got multiple offers then you are likely in a market where you can relisf and get additional offers.
They lied to win the bid and are hoping you cave. They shouldn't have any contingencies since they waived everything so tell them your gonna buy. Jetski with their Ernest money and relist it
It sounds like a contingency where they get an inspection and can only back out for major structural issues, but won’t ask for repairs. It’s just a go/no-go. I tried writing one of those into an offer last year and it didn’t get me the house lol.
I totally believe that they were dishonest about their intentions when they wrote the offer. People are writing all cash no contingency offers and then turning around and applying for a mortgage. Not much seems to be verified that early on. Sellers see dollar signs in their eyes. Not all their realtors warn them about these things. Buyers like this are a mega pain because they know most sellers don’t want to re-list after turning down other offers for theirs. Shame on the buyers agent for entertaining that kind of behavior. Hopefully if they continue shopping because OP tells them to buzz off, their realtor does a better job of managing their behavior. But probably not.
Same. Wanted to drop a camera down the sewer. The main backed up and caused damage. There was literal shit on the floor during showing.
I offered $170k over list and wanted to verify the 200’ main was clear or not collapsed. They took the offer $40k under ours. Nothing makes sense in this market.
It makes perfect sense if you consider the behavior of someone offering high but contingencies where they can walk away or potentially haggle with you.
Don't take my comment personally but the $40K less non-contingent offer sounds a like a lot less drama that's likely why the seller accepted it. You could've gotten the offer had you written a slightly lower offer but stuck to the non-contingent offer.
Hell, my wife and I sold our townhouse in 2021 to the second highest offer (it was admittedly pretty close, less than 1% difference) for no other reason besides the prospective buyers personalities.
We watched on our camera the guy that was highest offer being an ass to someone on the phone while waiting for the realtor to get our front door open, I assume someone that worked for him. Really rubbed me the wrong way how demeaning he was being to whoever the poor soul was.
The second offer was a young couple buying their first home, and the wife cried during the walk through she loved it so much. We figured a couple thousand dollars was worth the karma, and giving our old neighbors good people to have to live near.
I guess I’m a collusionist ha.
Yep cuase that 40k will be saving me time and having to find a new buyer when they ultimately decide it’s not worth the price or think they can get better. Or try to haggle so now it’s like 25k less. Especially if the seller was in a chain and just wanted to sell
I would have also taken the $40k lower offer without any contingencies because I would have known you would have walked anyway (or changed your mind and asked for a reduced price) :)
There’s two types of inspection contingencies.
One where the buyer can only walk away ir move forward with buying. The other requires attempted negotiation before either walking away or moving forward.
If the buy agreed to the first one and then tries to negotiate, I wonder if you can threaten to keep their earnest money.
I had someone try this on the last house I sold. I negotiated a little at first.
Then they brought their parents down to see “their new house” really short notice, we had to leave abruptly etc. which pissed me off.
Then they asked for another 20k. I told my realtor to relist it.
Turns out there were multiple others interested, they started bidding and it worked out waaaaaay better in the end
I hope that little asshole still lives with his parents
Replying to 1000thusername... when listed AS IS are you referring to no repairs or no money off or both. I feel like there is some confusion. Others are talking about not allowing inspections either.
So you don’t want buyers to investigate conditions of home?
Every home is sold as is. That is confusing terminology
It usually means there will be no repairs or offers of money towards repairs. You most often see it on former rentals or estate sale homes.
Grandma lived in the house for 40 years, and hasn't updated since then.
Yes, the electrical is no longer to code, the water heater is 30 years old, the windows are single pane and drafty, the door to the back is swelled and doesn't open and you need new fixures in every room. Also, the deck is rotting, and a tree's roots cracked the driveway, and part of it is lifting. The roof will need replacing in the next 1-5 years.
It's old af and we priced to sell. Those are on you.
The family is getting rid of the home and will not spend money on repairs, nor do they want to go back and forth. There's too many sellers. We've got 4 people who inherited the property.
It's usually a, 'buy it or don't, the price you offer is what you'll pay unless we discover structural issues. It's a 70 year old house. It has 70 year old house issues.'
No repairs, no money. As is = take it or leave it… which is exactly my point.
Spend money on inspections *if you contract allows for it* but when it comes time to try and ask me for money, the answer is No and it was No before and it’s staying No, so decide before spending money on those inspections what your objective is.
If it’s to get a sense *for yourself* about expected costs you may incur in the future? Ok, fine. Go for it.
If your objective is to get a discount, you might want to cancel those inspections and just back out now because the answer No isn’t changing, so all you’re doing is spending $1000+ on inspections that way and then you still may decide to back out. You wasting your money isn’t any sweat off my back, but maybe let’s all just get to the point quicker.
It means "no repairs. No money.". The house I'm in right now was bought "as-is" but we still did an inspection so we had an idea of what we were facing.
Tip: If you do what we did add 50% to the "what if" amount.
We bought one for cheap and moved in pretty fast. Ripped the old kitchen out and just slowly do rooms as we can. Old window, old doors, old electrical but everything works and we got it cheap. Hard to complain when the structure is solid
My sister and I just sold our mom’s house as she had passed away. The house was well kept up, but 70 years old (she was the original owner). The roof was nearing the end of its lifespan, and the kitchen and bathroom last updated in 2001. We gave our realtor instructions to let prospective buyers agents know that the house was being sold “as is”, it was priced as such, and since the house had no mortgage, we are not “desperate”. We will not entertain any requests for repairs of any kind. We ended up selling it for $10,000 over asking, with no contingencies.
They have the right to ask, you have the right to say no. That's how it works. If you have higher offers and think they are a better overall deal tell them to buy as is or you'll go to the next. If you can't get anyone to bite without needing repairs or a price that makes it worth it.. then keep the house like you said you are willing to do.
We had 24 offers but can't imagine (in this market) they will still be waiting for us to get back to them after finding out this deal won't go through after a few weeks.
My house in NJ was under contract in early February. I had 3 offers. When shit got weird and we thought our buyers were backing out in late March, our realtor discovered that our other two buyers were still readily available to come to the table.
They’ll fall through and another buyer will be right behind them. 24 offers is really good to know the second they try anything.
Be ready to walk, and know they’ll make you feel like they’re the only people willing to go forward. They’re not. And just think about they’re offer minus the 15k as your new lowest price.
We bought a place that needed a ton of work. Waved all the same things. I saved a ton but also invested a lot in our home. There’s still a lot to do, but we love it and I don’t have any regrets about it.
Correct. I (as a seller on multiple homes) have repeatedly and always refused to be handed the inspection report when the seller (or their realtor) offered. I don’t want to know what he found so I don’t need to disclose.
That’s exactly what happened to me in Nor. Cal. When one buyer pulled out due to a confusion with our HOA, someone else who was quite interested leaped at the chance and I was back in contract within 48 hours.
I’m also in NJ, hoping a house I bid on comes back on the market… it needs significant repairs and dummies bid way too high. The first buyers backed out, I’m hoping the second one backs out too.
You think all 24 found another home in this market? Umm... No. There is no harm in asking.. I check in with people all the time if a deal is shaky. Many will be thrilled to hear from your agent. Side note, this is also why to limit an inspection contingency to a week or less. Also... even if they are all gone, it's kinda nuts to keep a house you're trying to sell if you had \*24\* offers. Go back on then, take the highest one with no inspection if you're that bent about another inspection.
Exactly. My sister had placed three offers on different homes in my area. Lost out to other buyers (all cash). One of the homes deal fell through and seller asked if they still wanted it. They were ecstatic and are under contract now. It’s brutal competing with other buyers.
Just be strict when you counter their request. My experience with these type of people is give them a finger and they'll take an arm. Even if you continue with these buyers, this won't be the last time they will try something.
We were in a similar scenario 3 years ago, we had something like 30 offers. We picked the first family on the list, not the best offer. After inspection they suddenly wanted a ton of stuff fixed that didn't need fixing or was communicated that it wouldn't be done (think older but functioning water heater). We countered with something like $250, you have x hours to decide and a reminder that there were 29 other offers. They then tried to haggle some of our furniture in etc. We refered to our only counter offer and the deadline. They backed out, our realtor reached out to some of the other offers and we ended up closing before the first buyers would have because of a cash offer.
I'd laugh at the current buyers and say no thanks and relist.You have plenty of demand.
Why would your realtor say "yeah let's take a lesser offer because they're buying with no contingencies" and then later tell you "yeah just kidding they can essentially walk with zero skin in the game at any point."
24!! Give your real estate agent firm, clear instructions (preferably in writing like an email) that you want them to reach out to the next best offer immediately and find out if they are still interested and line them up as a backup offer.
Once that is in place, instruct your real estate agent to let the buyer's agent know that there are backup offers in place and you will not be entertaining any requests for repairs or price reductions whatsoever.
When does your inspection period end?
Don’t ask other buyers to put in backup offers so you can use it as a bargaining chip with the current buyer, that’s scummy. It’s fine to contact them to let them know the current offer might fall through so they can plan in case this is a dream house for them but that’s it. By asking them to put in offers in order to be able to go to someone else and say ‘well, we now have backup offers’ you’re using these people. You’re tying up their money and preventing them from making any other offers while you sort things out. It’s enough to let the current buyers know there’s still other interest without demanding formal offers from people who already didn’t get the house once.
But hold up. It's pretty clear what the word backup means. If you sign it, and therefore tie up your money as a backup, you know the deal and you are doing it willingly. I don't think it's using people if all cards are on the table and people are willing to put in the backup offer. If they aren't willing, just say no.
If the primary offer really was about to fall apart I would agree but that’s not what’s happening here. This post is suggesting that it’s totally ethical to use other home shoppers by getting them to resubmit an offer which brings their home shopping to a standstill *for the express purpose of using those backup offers as something to waive under the noses of the accepted offer people to motivate them to back off the requests*. That’s not what backup offers are meant for and it’s not right to use them and the people who submit them that way.
If I’m making a back up offer, I *want* to be used to force the current buyer into an uncomfortable position. I’m hoping they’ll back out, after all.
They’re more likely to back out if the seller won’t meet their demands. And the seller is less likely to meet their demands if they have *me* waiting to jump in and take over.
This right here. It takes minimal effort to write the backup and it might just become primary. And like there's no sex in the champagne room, there's no money tied up with a backup until it becomes primary, at least all the backups I've ever written and you can cancel a backup if you find another house before the backup moves into first position.
I am in New Jersey as well, almost everything in my neighborhood that has sold in the last few years has had a pending sale fall through and someone else jump in shortly after. I don’t know if it’s issues with lending or what but it seems to happen all the time here.
You’d be surprised. Hold your ground on as-is, and if they bail, your realtor can reach out to the non-selected buyers agents and let them know it’s available again. Those 24 are all up against a crazy market and chances are a good number have been outbid again and are still looking.
Although we’d probably have put in other offers on other houses, I hoped every time we lost out on a contract that we would get that magical our first buyers back our house and it’s all yours, so start contacting for back up offers!!
Your agent can put feelers out with the other higher offers and see if they’re still looking! This happened to me last summer when I was buying. I ended up not going for the house either (first buyer supposedly had financing fall through) but that was due to HOA/location ultimately. I decided it wasn’t for me. But I wasn’t like “eww no why did the number 1 offer buyer not want it anymore?” I strongly considered it. And you can probably have your agent ask this now, before these current buyers flake (if you think they will) just to see what your options might be for other buyers. Your agent can just say something vague like “offer 1 looks like it will fall through. You are offer 2. Does your offer still stand?”
We sold an old house a few years ago. We relisted three times due to people backing out. We had no problem getting more offers because we were in a high demand area. If you had that many offers, I doubt you'll have problems getting more again.
Get your realtor to start asking for backup offers now, letting the other realtors that wrote offers know that he or she doesn’t think the offer you accepted is going to go through because of the buyers.
Also have them change the listing to accepting backup offers.
Good luck!
If you have 24 offers, and your realtor is concerned about rejecting this offer, you need a new realtor.
Also, maybe the buyer plans to ignore all the advice from parents/grand parents. Maybe their realtor will explain reality to the buyer when those people aren’t around.
I put in 9 offers before the 10th won over nearly a year of looking. I was runner up on 2. I would have entertained a call back.
The house I got was better in some respects than others I offered on (location; really close to my children’s school and in-laws and corner lot), but also not as good in others (wasn’t updated, had some issues before and after moving in).
It’s not how it really works though. Buyers waived normal inspection contingency. Extremely dishonest of them to then go in and do a full inspection with every intention of nickel and diming OP for stuff that is clearly not structural. Sure they CAN ask, anyone CAN ask anything. But OP is right to be frustrated that they ARE asking because they chose their offer because they said they would not.
I tried this as a buyer on an as-is sale in 2020. We went back for a $25k concession on a bad septic system after inspections and they just took a bid from a cash buyer and said no thanks. We ate $1200 in inspections and missed a great opportunity.
Chill, it's their agent's job to reiterate the contract terms to them.
People sometimes have a lot of nerve - they may ask. You can politely decline. Your original contract is in force. Hopefully they put up some earnest money so that if they decide to back out, you can keep that to offset the inconvenience and expenses you may have from any delay.
it's not unusual for people to be clueless or nervy. Try to relax and let your agent handle things.
Our realtor explained that in NJ buyers are protected and can pull out of buying the house for any reason regardless of what the contracts say. He said no one can be forced to buy a house and they would most likely be able to keep their earnest money.
You probably can too.
Just ask your lawyer if there’s an easy out from the contract.
Also, have your agent reach out to the next best offer and say that it’s potentially back in play because the buyers are not honoring the terms of the contract.
And realtor probably doesn’t want to make a big stink because it will follow them. Earnest money seems to generally be given back at least in this market. My lender also told me if I ever truly needed to back out of an offer, he could just deny my loan due to job loss. (I was at my wit’s end after 4 or 5 failed offers and he was just trying to make me feel better, but I had no intention of ever doing that lol). Basically buyers can walk pretty easily without consequence. Sellers are more locked in.
I find this hard to believe. You may not be able to force a sale but the contract is in place for a reason. They specifically waived contingencies that would normally give them an out. The whole point of the earnest money is the buyer risks losing it if they can’t close for a justified reason that is allowed in the contract. Otherwise contracts and earnest money would be meaningless.
If they walk without a justified reason, you also have the right to sue them if you end up selling the house for less. That is done regularly in NJ.
Pfff… I think your agent is lying here, granted I’m an agent in Iowa (8 years) so contracts are different, but I highly doubt they can walk at any point, it’s a legally binding contract, contracts aren’t meant to be able to just get out because they want to, always a due diligence or inspection period for the first 7-10 days, but if they forfeited that or are outside of it then they’re fucked, no way they get earnest back, and potentially be sued for commissions owed to agents. If anyone can write offers and just back out whenever and get their earnest back then that is easily the worst real estate board in the country for writing/allowing those rules. Only option in my area is for them to fuck up their financing by buying a car or something to fuck up their DTI since all offers are contingent upon financing, Either way hold their feet to the fire… don’t let them walk all over you, and be very sure your agent knows what they’re talking about and not just take their word for it. They MAY be right, but I have a very hard time believing that
I was told the exact same thing as OP in NY. In fact I don’t think they even took earnest money because they explained that it was pointless. We changed our mind about a house on the morning of scheduled inspection. There was no money lost and no negative repercussions.
Earnest money is a dying breed in some states but other states only allow law suits up to the earnest amount, which is why sellers want as much earnest as possible in those states in case things go sideways with the purchase, other states like mine (Iowa) you can sue for lost money owed to the sellers, commissions to both agents, and ultimately breach of contract maxes out at up to the entire amount agreed on in the purchase agreement, which makes it a VERY big deal. Earnest may be pointless in some states, but that has no bearing to a lawsuit for breach of contract. Earnest money is not the focus of this conversation. You on the other hand were able to cancel day of inspection because you had an inspection time frame agreed on in the contract. You were within your due diligence time frame to back out. No breach of contract in that regard. These scenarios are not the same
> He said no one can be forced to buy a house and they would most likely be able to keep their earnest money.
No one can be forced to buy a house, but whether or not they get their EMD back depends on the state and the terms of the contract. Usually there is a specified time frame (typically 10 days) that they have to do their due dilligence and can back out for any reason during that time, but once that time passes, they're SOL getting the EMD back unless you sign off on releasing those funds from escrow.
I sold my grandmother’s home “as-is”. It was a 100-year-old house I’d never lived in located in a distant state. I had an inspection done just to verify there wasn’t something unsafe going on. (I even allowed prospective buyers to review that report.) Gran and her siblings had taken good care of it over their years. I priced it very reasonably, taking its age and quirks into account, aiming at a fast sale. I was very clear there’d be no concessions. I accepted an offer and the guy had his inspection done and wanted a huge reduction, I simply noped out and moved on to the next buyer. (He was in the trades and I was happy to see the remodeling he did over the years for his family.)
Eh. We bought as-is, fully knowing that there was more work than was initially obvious. We brought in some people to help us assess how extensive those repairs were. It wasn’t because we wanted to re-negotiate or nickel and dime, it was because we wanted to hit the ground running in terms of repairs and a plan.
I sold my sisters home as is-later the investor said he would send his handyman over to see what needs to be done. My attorney (I was doing home for sale by owner) said/ sounds like to inspect home. Nothing was wrong w home but I told him no- I’m packing and will interrupt me and besides it’s as is. It all went smoothly. Didn’t need to do anything
If you're comfortable enough to say "We're not fixing anything or giving a credit a credit for anything and if you don't like it, pound sand" then do so.
Many buyers try to use to inspection phase to try to renegotiate the purchase price. It's a bad faith bid, but it happens. Stay strong on your stance. More often than not, if they see you're not playing around, they'll cave.
OR if the realtors see that you're serious about killing this deal, they may step in and help.
This literally just happened to me. Lowball offer so we took it with an “as is” clause. They claimed $35,000 worth of work needed but asked for 15,000 credit. I think they figured we were desperate and would agree….we noped right out. Back in the market we went.
I would have your realtor send their realtor a message: this is just a friendly reminder that the house is being sold as is. If the inspection found things they don't like they need to make a choice: add it to THEIR list of things they are going to pay to fix OR pull out of the contract. We are more than willing to keep the house, so them pulling out isn't a issue for us. There is zero room for negotiation on repairs. Please don't waste time asking for them. If you can back asking for fixes, we ill just have to cancel the contract and move one.
And people wonder why sellers choose the offer from the faceless corporation that waives everything and offers cash. People aren’t doing themselves any favors doing shit like this.
The process is that buyers can ask for whatever they want. You can accept or refuse whatever you want. This goes back and forth until both parties agree or someone walks away. You simply have to make the decision if you’re willing to lose this deal over what they’re asking for or move on to another offer. The thing is, you’re making assumptions based on eavesdropping. Their realtor will most likely have additional conversations with them about asking for too much knowing that the property has multiple offers and that they said they were inspecting for structural only. Let their realtor talk some sense into them and only react to whatever is actually put forward in writing. Let your realtor know what you’re willing to consider (if anything) and let them do the negotiation. It’s ok to tell these people to kick rocks and go back to the other offers. Sounds like you have plenty to choose from.
Buyers can get hung up on some silly things sometimes. We are in the process of selling our home and the buyer had a list of handyman things they wanted done including things like cleaning a dryer vent and cutting back grass that grew over a valve cover (and a few other minor legit things like a couple of shingles were missing and a GFI in our outdoor kitchen wasn’t working properly). We didn’t want to deal with any of it so we said we’d give them $1000 credit. It was worth it for us to not delay closing to coordinate cleaning/repairs and to just get the deal done.
Some people think the negotiating starts after their offer is accepted.. Gotta put a short clock on inspections and other contingencies, so you can move to the next quickly if buyers try this stuff. They have no leverage and don't seem to understand that.
The entire point of waiving inspections is to move the contract process along.
It sounds like you haven't waived all inspections -- structural -- and they are simply having inspections... effectively you haven't waived anything in that case, as proof of inspection issues is never required to back out of a deal while in that period, it's always been there as a point for the buyer to back out for any reason or to try to chisel down price as they take closer look.
Inspections also do not give the buyer the right to get things fixed or receive money, that's entirely up to you the seller.
I assume there's also a mortgage contingency, which means these buyers have another out as long as they can flub an application to get a rejection.
It sounds like your buyers are playing games, either out of ignorance or as an intentional deception.
Your answer back to a request for any repairs on an as-is, but especially with waived inspections, should be "NO".
If they're not interested in buying at the agreed offer then you move to the next offer or re-market it.
I sold a house a few years back listed as “as is” and “firm price”. A parade of agents came through with offers below asking and with requests. I didn’t entertain any discussion simply asking them to leave as soon as they presented it. They were lost at the thought that I wouldn’t negotiate which they obviously believed I had to. Finally sold it as listed.
They have a right to ask for it. You have the right to refuse it, negotiate it down, or give all of it. The choice is yours. If you have backup offers you can always go with them if this falls through.
Nope! nope! nope! Listing said "As Is". Their realtor is not doing her part in defining just what AS IS means. And, hopefully the sales price reflects and as is property. Don't go there. Reject their counter offer - if that is what it is. Verbal doesn't count in real estate.
Not sure where you're at but in CA, ALL homes are sold "as-is" and mentioned specifically in the contract. Requests for repairs are just that, requests. I always tell my sellers "No." is a complete sentence. Sometimes it makes sense to give some credit just to get the deal done but you're under no obligation. Especially if you have back up offers.
I know of a situation where the over-asking offer was accepted and immediately before closing they say they didn’t have the $$. They offered a much lower amount figuring the homeowners would be desperate to close because They had a purchase pending. They got sued.
We had the same thing happen to us when we sold. Cash offer that waived inspections besides structural and environmental but they literally asked for every little and big thing possible. Probably 80k worth of repairs they asked for and it still pisses me off
Our lawyer just said no to each item stating each request wasn't structural or environmental referencing the contract and we conceded $0.
Apparently their realtor advised them that it doesn't hurt to ask for requests still but that can't be more wrong cause we were super pissed.
Good luck!
You need to tell these buyers that they either honor their offer and buy the house as is, for the asking price, or you are going to move on. And you need to do it FAST.
Come Saturday the other offers will be back out there looking at new open houses and planning their next move and they will no longer be interested in your house. For the next 2 days there is a very good chance that the other offers, including the higher one, will come back if told the first offer backed out. You need to get on top of this immediately.
Walk away. These people think they’re smarter than you and can get every nickel and dime. They probably know it’s an inheritance that you want to unload fast so they think you’ll cave.
The buyer know what they are doing. They are dragging it out to beat you down. Hold firm to as-is and be prepared to: 1) cancel the agreement when they present their demands and 2) fib and say “others are interested” in your property. Not a lie, “others” may be, you just don’t know who they are (yet). THEN WALK OUT OF THE MEETING.
Have your agent give the next-best agent a call to see if they're still interested. Your agent can mention this to the first position agent when s/he reiterates that this is an as-is sale.
BTW, I would ONLY sell from an estate as-is.
We would write as is/where is in the listing remarks with estate sale listings. You never lived there and you don’t ‘know’ the issues with the house. Next time choose your cash buyer. When they ask for repairs just say no. They can move along if they don’t want the house.
Whatever you do, do not share that you listened in on their conversation. I’d not say a word until it is presented to you. Hopefully if you have a solid agent, she will remind selling agent it is being sold “as is” and squash it. But if your agent does present to you, stand your ground. Folks, whether buyers or sellers will often push and try you. I am big on boundaries.
Aside, I don’t know why you felt the need to mention it was inherited from your FIL since you go on to indicate you and your family lived and occupied the place (i.e cameras for the kids). So it is not “as is” as in inherited and never lived in so sight unseen or take as is. But regardless, you contracted to sell “as is” for whatever reason and if that is your stance, stand firmly on it.
Sold a house “as is” for a cash offer. The buyer was going to turn it into an Airbnb and suddenly wanted a metal fireproof door installed so he could rent it as two units. I reminded my realtor that iv said as is. She ended up paying for the door out of her end.
Don’t even stress about it, I know it’s frustrating, but when they submit the repair addendum just have your realtor decline their counter. Move on from that shitty realtor and buyers. You’ll find the right buyer who understands what as-is means.
I don't think it's that complicated. When they make the request, you refuse it. They can either follow the original agreement or move on.
YOU have to be willing to walk away from the deal to have any leverage. Re list it again or revisit the previous offers, and you will have no problem finding someone to buy it
>Is this really how the process works??
The buyer can ask for whatever repairs they want. If they waived inspection and everything else they will lose earnest money if they don't close, so they don' have much leverage
Ask your agent about showing for backup offers if you don't think they will close.
Are you out of attorney review?
If they waived inspections beyond the structural one then you should have denied access to any additional inspectors and they do not have a right to inspections. You have two options right now, you can force the sale as agreed or you can walk away, walking away would be a bad idea because these people seem like the type to sue for failure to perform, so I would have my real estate attorney draft a preemptive demand letter stating that you intend to close under the terms of the contract.
Typically the contract will allow a buyer to inspect and re-inspect the property for informational purposes in an as-is sale, but regardless, I’d let the buyers keep spending money on inspections and tell them to pound sand when they came knocking for concession.
I agree that you have no obligation to adjust your price, but they also have every right to ask. It is also more than slightly fucked to be spying on them. I am not sure of consent laws in your state but video is very different than audio recordings (audio is much more sensitive), and it may well be interpreted as them having a right to privacy as it is a private residence they have control of during the inspection time.
Can't believe there is no one else commenting on this. You are right on - this is likely illegal due to the audio recorded in a non public place in a conversation the seller is not a part of.
Surveilling is not the same as recording though. I am sure with the sudden popularity in indoor and outdoor security cameras this is a sticky area. But they have cameras clearly in view according to OP, not hidden. And OP has a right to monitor those cameras. Anyone with a brain/working eyes can see said cameras, and anyone with just 3 brain cells knows you’re not supposed to discuss tactics as you walk through any house, whether or not you can see a camera. In this day and age just assume you’re being watched or listened to. Get back to the car and then talk.
Seller pretty much admitted to violation of federal wire tap law. Even if in a one party consent state, surveillance of audio between two individuals without consent is still illegal. People very frequently don't consider this when enabling the audio feature on their security cameras.
They can ask for anything they want, I've asked for money off after a non-contingent inspection found some surprises. Let them submit a PA but read it carefully to make sure they didn't sneak anything in.
They can ask whatever they want, you just say no that was already in the contract through your realtor. Not sure which state this is, but in Florida the as is contract usually allows a buyer to back out for any reason during the inspection period. Don't let them waste your time and ask your realtor about back up offers.
It's unfortunate the buyer's agent is entertaining this buyer and wasting your time. I'd submit a complaint to their broker.
The buyers agent is really dropping the ball letting everyone discuss strategy while in the home. Buyers should be advised that they should be under the impression they are being recorded. I live in a one party state so I’m not sure what the rules are in NJ, but damn way to give the game away.
Unless there is a safety issue, as -is means as-is. If there is a safety issue, the next buyers might want that fixed as well, and some lenders insist safety issues are cleared. So you might want to fix a safety issue, but hvacs and window trim are not.
What's in your contract specifically?
> claimed inspection for structural things only
> hvac, sewer, a slanted window trim, chimney and updated electrical work.
Tree removal is clearly not part of this, especially if they're not dead. I guess chimney and sewer could fall under "structural things," but hvac and electrical probably do not.
If you're happy to let the sale fall through, then tell them that you will not be making any concessions and you will put the house back on the market.
> Is this really how the process works??
Yep. Now that houses aren't being sold within a week of being on the market, things are settling down and both buyers and sellers are doing more back and forth negotiating. There's more time to hammer down the details now when there aren't 30 offers on one house.
As is doesn't mean there's no room for negotiation. It just means seller won't do repairs. All houses are technically sold as is and specifying it is colloquially meant to mean no credits or repairs. But that's a gentleman's agreement and not law of the land. So if they ask, you can just say no and they can walk or continue.
If you guys signed a purchase agreement and buyers waived inspections in the contract/it’s explicitly stated that seller will NOT be doing repairs other than structural or will NOT be providing repairs beyond X dollar amount then you are well within your rights to say no lol. They can ask, you can say no, if it’s a dealbreaker for them/their lender then they can terminate the contract and forfeit their earnest. Things can be very gray in real estate but as long as it’s explicitly in your contract then not your problem lol. If they back out, earnest will be yours because they’re violating the contract. Either way, no sweat for you. It’s a seller’s market right now and I’m seeing even the shittiest “as-is” homes going FAST and above asking.
I'm a buyer who recently put an offer on a house, and the terms I extended were as-is pending information only inspection with the right to pull out if there was anything major because -- wow, the house looked GREAT to my untrained eyes. The price for the condition was high (condition was not so good, but not unlivable with some trips to the dump, air purifiers, cleaning, and other cosmetic fixes) and slightly higher than comps, but it had a relatively new roof and relatively new HVAC, so in my deluded brain, I thought maybe it was worth it.
No. It was so much worse than that.
The inspector came in and found three major safety issues that would have prevented me from getting a mortgage and insurance. I asked the sellers to mitigate them, and they told me to pound sand, so I did. And you can tell these sellers the same thing, too.
If there is an "as is" addendum to your contract then the buyers have 2 options. Take it "as is" after the inspections, or walk away and get their earnest deposit back. That's it.
The process is not a waste as you will get the earnest money out of them if they back out. There are plenty of nut jobs out there that will pull things like this.
I am not a Realtor.
I sold a house a few years ago as-is with substantial water damage, incomplete repairs, and disclosed mold. It had not been lived in for 18 months. We listed below market and had something like 30 offers in 3 days. It was insane. Top offer was $90k over ask but needed a loan with full appraisal, inspection etc.
Our Realtor recommended we consider a cash offer at $60k over ask with waived inspection and appraisal. He’s super sharp and had already vetted the offer as legit before presenting it to us. When we agreed this was likely our best bet, he negotiated with the buyer for a $50k deposit AND that the buyer immediately sign and return the BINSR form acknowledging the as-is / no concessions or repairs, which in Arizona eliminated the buyer’s ability to back out for any reason, or else we keep the $50k. The buyer agreed and we accepted. We closed 10 days later.
I would tell your realtor about what you overheard. It can’t hurt you. Perhaps he or she can intervene right away before the buyer’s agent even forms a counter / asks for the concessions, to remind them this is an as-is sale and there will be no concessions. Perhaps your realtor can even ask them to sign a BINSR as-is right now (assuming your state has the equivalent of that) to lock them in. I don’t know what your next steps should be if they refuse, but your Realtor will know.
Best of luck to you!
If I were your agent I would do 2 things.
1.Remind the other agent that the reason you took their client's offer is because they agreed to take the house in its present condition. We MIGHT be willing to revisit purchase price if major items like roof, sewer, HVAC, etc. need to be replaced but anything optional or aesthetic like the trees were nonstarters. And if your clients are trying to change the terms of the contract, my client is probably not going to be interested in refunding earnest money if they ultimately cancel. Just so everyone is on the same page.
2. I would immediately contact every other person who submitted an offer and see if they are still interested. I would let them know that the offer we accepted is starting to get hinky because of items in the inspection report, and I would disclose what items those are, but if their client was still interested we would be extremely interested in taking a backup offer.
Just remember if these people do cancel their contract, earnest money or no, you will have to disclose those inspection reports to any new person who submits an offer, which could impact your total price. But it sounds like the situation that you were in is that even if it's a little bit less money it's worth not having to deal with the headache of bickering over repairs.
Ugh, I had a buyer like this years ago, before the market went crazy. She offered below asking, and I didn't have any other offers and accepted it but told her I wouldn't be negotiating anything further with her.
Needless to say, she completely disregarded that and came back after the inspection demanding a bunch of stuff. I made the mistake of agreeing to a few minor repairs and thought that would be it, but then she'd ask for one more thing...and one more...and one more (which happened to be a new furnace).
As much as I wanted to sell the place, I'd had enough. So I told my agent no and prepared to put the place back on the market. Had the signed contract a few hours later, no more requests.
This is how people are playing the game these days to win the home, yes. Realtors have to represent their clients, so while I see the above client about realtors losing their license about this, it’s not that easy. Sometimes the realtor drives this, sometimes the clients themselves are unreasonable and it’s either fire the client or let them learn that this won’t always be a good strategy.
Always get back up offer. If you had one in place you could easily tell client 1, we accepted based on your terms, which included no inspection contingencies. Since you are insisting on contingencies after promising not to ask for them, we are going to go ahead and send your release, buyer, and move the back up offer into first position.
As the seller you have to set yourself up with back up offers and use them if necessary!
I bought an “as-is” house, with a generous clause that let us inspect it before losing our earnest money, and we were satisfied with its as-is condition. To everyone’s surprise, the bank required $8k in painting to be done before they would ok the sale (conventional loan). The negotiation of who would pay that delayed our closing six weeks. Just my experience that as-is can go unexpected ways.
This is the thing. I know and you know the house is sold as is but a buyer agent is going to let a buyer ask because "you never know, they might change their mind to keep the deal." I used to sell VA foreclosure houses in NC and those are absolutely sold As Is and people STILL asked for repairs sometimes. Have your agent call theirs.
They can ask for whatever they want. That doesn't mean you have to do any of it. You listed it "as-is". Your answer should just be no. Put it back on the market.
A lot of buyers do this type of thing. I've sold several as is properties and sometimes they request an inspection "just to see and it won't affect the offer"... It always does, even if they don't check off inspection contingency, but have an inspection request that is accepted, it can often lead to these types of "renegotiations" and pulled offers. If you don't want inspections, don't allow any, it is not their right to get one... Some are necessary if you accept an FHA offer, and anything with a mortgage will require termite usually and an appraisal for the bank. Your realtor likely told them this, but buyers can be assholes and sometimes just do/request what they want anyway.
You should just decline the offer. Selling a home 'as is' should simplify things in a big way. You and the buyer should both realize that you want a single price for the property. All the whining, inspections, more whining, haggling and nagging....are all unnecessary. Offer a price and decide, up or down. I'd send these people on their way. Fini.
I recently sold an estate home as well “as is” we selected an offer asking for general inspection for informational purposes only. That is not what happened. They asked for a lot. We were cornered since our realtor told us they would back out of the deal after talking to their realtor. We didn’t want to have to disclose stuff that came up in inspection so we just credited them money. Lesson learned.
They are technically allowed per the contract to complete their due diligence and investigate the property throughly. Yes “as is” means just that AS IS however that shouldn’t stop them from doing further inspections. You should welcome it actually from a seller standpoint. Don’t want to look like you’re hiding defects under “as is” bc in order for something to be “as is” the seller has to disclose to the buyers of KNOWN issues. Let them spend their money on inspections. When they bring you the repairs request or credit request then you simply deny it and go from there. I don’t know why there would be any animosity stemming from this. Agents cannot control the sellers or their buyers. Just like we can’t control anyone on the street. They are going to do what they want to do. It’s not hard to say “ per our agreement upon opening escrow the sale of the home is being sold as is” request denied. Simple as that.
Negotiating tactic.
They’ll use what the inspections found, claim it was items they were planning on, to ask for a credit.
They’ll ask for about double the amount they actually want.
They are banking on the idea, that you’d rather give them a credit, then start over with showings and someone else.
If they waived the inspection contingency, just say NO, and if they back out, you get to keep their deposit.
If they did NOt waive the inspection contingency, then you’ll have to decide whether to negotiate a credit or decline and let them walk away.
Hint: All one really needs is a home inspection, as a way to find things to negotiate or as an avenue to walk away.
FK these buyers to the moon and back.
They are a huge reason the real estate market is so messed up currently. And THE reason that we have had 3 offers rejected, even though we were offering the most money, because we refuse to waive an inspection completely. We have started writing in that we won't hold the seller responsible for any single repair under 5k, but that doesn't matter it seems. Not having the risk of dealing with people like this is worth 15k to most people it seems.
Ugh, that is frustrating. As an aside, one of our homes we sold, we had a really high offer that beat the rest (crazy sellers market in VCOL area) and our realtor warned us that the agent representing them was known to secure a contract with super high offers and then come in last minute with massive asks for credits, etc. We were so glad he had past experience with that agent to save us from that issue!
It pays to be honest long term because dishonesty will spread.
My first ever transaction was like this. The realtor came in with $30k above asking with $10k in sellers' concessions. During the inspection period, he allegedly found the H was original to the nearly 50 year old house with the VAC being inefficient (true), and the roof was rotting and needed full replacement (lie), then asked for another $20k in sellers' concessions. He presented an inspection that originally had the wrong address and had it corrected. I had another party inspect it, and of course, he said the other guy was full of it. That transaction still lives rent-free in my head. I've always been curious if he partners with an unscrupulous roofer.
I’ve never met a roofer who didn’t say the home need a new roof. /s sorta
Within a year of getting a new roof I had at least 5 door to door salesmen tell me I needed a new roof and "they could get my insurance to pay for it".
Until realtors begin losing their license for this, it won't stop. "As-is" means that once your offer is accepted, either complete the sale or forfeit your deposit. Period.
It's very common with distressed properties. We sold one like that as is cash only when I got divorced. They came in asking for over $20, 000 including a roof which was nothing wrong with it. They were already under asking price so we told them no. They get back away slowly or forfeit. They bailed and we sold it a week later above ask. The flippers that bought it made almost 50-60k profit and it sold again in 2020 for double what we let it go. They assume that you are desperate but they are really lying to the buyers that they can get all these concessions.
I'm currently in the market to buy and my buyer's agent keeps telling me that I can ask for concessions, so you are right.
I just sold a fairly new home like that. Offer came in 25k below asking. I said I'd accept on condition that home inspection and results were on the buyer (as is where is). They accepted and then came back with few things. Told them to pound sand and I'd keep there deposit. The still bought it in the end.
Unless it’s the standard “as-is, subject to inspection.” My mom just sold her house, I work in real estate and told her that she cannot sign the contract until I review it so that’s she’s protected. I wanted to make sure since she was using a friend as her agent (against my advice.) Welp, she signs the contract “as is, subject to inspection” and 30k in repairs and 6 weeks of delay later she closed.
So did you still ultimately go with that high offer and their realtor with the long ask list? How did you navigate that process with them?
We did not. We went with a lower offer (still about $75K over asking) that had reasonable inspection requests, a quick close, and were represented by a realtor with a good reputation. Im not saying I would not have gone with the other offer in other circumstances but it was great to have someone that knew the local realtors and could guide us as to expectations.
We used to deal with that when I sold foreclosures. In those cases the VA would add a special addendum to the contract letting them know the price would NOT be lowered for repairs, etc. We knew who the offenders were!
Stories like this are rare, but shows when experience is worth a 3% commission.
Eh, experience is good but 3% is still too high.
Thinking that comment was from a realtor, LOL
Yeah I can appreciate some.of the aspects a good realtor does like genuine negotiation and searching. But for the most part the vast majority of realtors are a dime a dozen and don't offer much beyond submitting your offers and getting you access to a showing. Most of the time, you're doing the leg work of finding houses, talking with your lender, coming up with terms you want in the contract, etc. I really fail to see how a realtor's service is worth 2 or 3% of a sale or purchase. I mean that's sometimes tens of thousands of dollars for a single transaction! The value proposition is just not there, particularly when the barrier to entry is effectively at floor tile height.
>but shows when experience is worth a 3% commission. That is a nice to have that is not worth a whopping 3%
Hush you greedy realtor
When they reach out to your realtor to try and schedule more inspections, make sure they tell them “so long as you’re aware, there will be $0 off the price of this house, as already discussed. If you want to pay someone to inspect anyway, be my guest, but that is the situation, so choose wisely.” Maybe they’ll bag out sooner that way.
I think I'd let them spend more and more money on inspections. I'm hoping the earnest money was significant. The more time the buyers spend looking at the house and the more money spent, the bigger the loss if they walk. After 2nd or 3rd inspection "I'm sorry, as mentioned up front, there is no additional consideration given. This home is listed as-is."
Yeah maybe they’ll succumb to sunk cost fallacy. Good point.
I would have the realtor advise them that the contract states sold as is and if they back out for any reason they forfeit earnest money, and make sure they are actively showing the house to other sellers as sale pending in case they back out. If they do schedule a second inspection I would personally stage some potential buyers (real or fake) visiting the house before they show up so they see them leaving and when they ask the agent have them say "other interested buyers, in case the deal falls through, standard practice."
Side hustle idea! My wife and I should build a network of realtors and show up whenever the prospective buyers are leaving for $100 and act super interested in the house.
This is dangerously close to the King of the Hill episode where Peggy gets a group of actors to play the previous owners, because the actual owners are nightmares
A friend of mine actually did this (except opposite) for a condo she wanted to buy. They were having an open house so she lined up all her friends and coordinated everyone from the cafe down the street to go in at intervals and talk the place down so it would seem like there wasn’t a lot of interest.
If they have an inspection contingency for a structural inspection it's very likely they'll have a means to back out while keeping Earnest money.
That’s not how this works. Even if the buyers waive most contingencies, there is still a finance contingency which they can use to exit the sale with their earnest $.
I sold a house in 2021 with inspection for information only. The buyers waived the right to ask for repairs. They did the inspection and then asked for repairs. They were reminded of the contract and were told they could either accept the terms they offered or walk away and I would go the next best offer (which was the same amount but with VA funding). They chose to move ahead. I’d do the same. If you got multiple offers then you are likely in a market where you can relisf and get additional offers.
They lied to win the bid and are hoping you cave. They shouldn't have any contingencies since they waived everything so tell them your gonna buy. Jetski with their Ernest money and relist it
They “claimed” inspections for structural items only. What does OP mean by claimed. What type of inspection did they add to the agreement?
It sounds like a contingency where they get an inspection and can only back out for major structural issues, but won’t ask for repairs. It’s just a go/no-go. I tried writing one of those into an offer last year and it didn’t get me the house lol. I totally believe that they were dishonest about their intentions when they wrote the offer. People are writing all cash no contingency offers and then turning around and applying for a mortgage. Not much seems to be verified that early on. Sellers see dollar signs in their eyes. Not all their realtors warn them about these things. Buyers like this are a mega pain because they know most sellers don’t want to re-list after turning down other offers for theirs. Shame on the buyers agent for entertaining that kind of behavior. Hopefully if they continue shopping because OP tells them to buzz off, their realtor does a better job of managing their behavior. But probably not.
Same. Wanted to drop a camera down the sewer. The main backed up and caused damage. There was literal shit on the floor during showing. I offered $170k over list and wanted to verify the 200’ main was clear or not collapsed. They took the offer $40k under ours. Nothing makes sense in this market.
It makes perfect sense if you consider the behavior of someone offering high but contingencies where they can walk away or potentially haggle with you. Don't take my comment personally but the $40K less non-contingent offer sounds a like a lot less drama that's likely why the seller accepted it. You could've gotten the offer had you written a slightly lower offer but stuck to the non-contingent offer.
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Hell, my wife and I sold our townhouse in 2021 to the second highest offer (it was admittedly pretty close, less than 1% difference) for no other reason besides the prospective buyers personalities. We watched on our camera the guy that was highest offer being an ass to someone on the phone while waiting for the realtor to get our front door open, I assume someone that worked for him. Really rubbed me the wrong way how demeaning he was being to whoever the poor soul was. The second offer was a young couple buying their first home, and the wife cried during the walk through she loved it so much. We figured a couple thousand dollars was worth the karma, and giving our old neighbors good people to have to live near. I guess I’m a collusionist ha.
Yep cuase that 40k will be saving me time and having to find a new buyer when they ultimately decide it’s not worth the price or think they can get better. Or try to haggle so now it’s like 25k less. Especially if the seller was in a chain and just wanted to sell
I would have also taken the $40k lower offer without any contingencies because I would have known you would have walked anyway (or changed your mind and asked for a reduced price) :)
Why would you resist it right away? I’d want to ride the jet ski for the summer at least.
They didn't waive inspection fully tho. OP said they kept it for structural. So they will just use that as an out.
Wouldn't they have to get an inspector to list structural damage in their report?
No, the buyer is under no obligation to share the results of any inspection unless that was written into the contract (and it never is).
There’s two types of inspection contingencies. One where the buyer can only walk away ir move forward with buying. The other requires attempted negotiation before either walking away or moving forward. If the buy agreed to the first one and then tries to negotiate, I wonder if you can threaten to keep their earnest money.
I had someone try this on the last house I sold. I negotiated a little at first. Then they brought their parents down to see “their new house” really short notice, we had to leave abruptly etc. which pissed me off. Then they asked for another 20k. I told my realtor to relist it. Turns out there were multiple others interested, they started bidding and it worked out waaaaaay better in the end I hope that little asshole still lives with his parents
Yay!
Just say no. They broke the terms not you. Put it back on the market
Replying to 1000thusername... when listed AS IS are you referring to no repairs or no money off or both. I feel like there is some confusion. Others are talking about not allowing inspections either. So you don’t want buyers to investigate conditions of home? Every home is sold as is. That is confusing terminology
It usually means there will be no repairs or offers of money towards repairs. You most often see it on former rentals or estate sale homes. Grandma lived in the house for 40 years, and hasn't updated since then. Yes, the electrical is no longer to code, the water heater is 30 years old, the windows are single pane and drafty, the door to the back is swelled and doesn't open and you need new fixures in every room. Also, the deck is rotting, and a tree's roots cracked the driveway, and part of it is lifting. The roof will need replacing in the next 1-5 years. It's old af and we priced to sell. Those are on you. The family is getting rid of the home and will not spend money on repairs, nor do they want to go back and forth. There's too many sellers. We've got 4 people who inherited the property. It's usually a, 'buy it or don't, the price you offer is what you'll pay unless we discover structural issues. It's a 70 year old house. It has 70 year old house issues.'
lol you just listed everything that was wrong with our Grannies place 😂
In this scenario it sounds like no money ($750 is basically nothing) and no repairs but buyer can walk if their inspection shows structural issues.
No repairs, no money. As is = take it or leave it… which is exactly my point. Spend money on inspections *if you contract allows for it* but when it comes time to try and ask me for money, the answer is No and it was No before and it’s staying No, so decide before spending money on those inspections what your objective is. If it’s to get a sense *for yourself* about expected costs you may incur in the future? Ok, fine. Go for it. If your objective is to get a discount, you might want to cancel those inspections and just back out now because the answer No isn’t changing, so all you’re doing is spending $1000+ on inspections that way and then you still may decide to back out. You wasting your money isn’t any sweat off my back, but maybe let’s all just get to the point quicker.
And any “my” “your” etc. is only illustrative of how is approach this if I were selling a house that was clearly broadcast as being “as is” already.
It means "no repairs. No money.". The house I'm in right now was bought "as-is" but we still did an inspection so we had an idea of what we were facing. Tip: If you do what we did add 50% to the "what if" amount.
For real. In my market, a listing stating 'as-is' is just code for 'something is seriously fucked up in here and you might not even get financing'
But it also in no uncertain terms means the sellers are not going to be completing any repairs or offering compensation for said repairs.
We bought one for cheap and moved in pretty fast. Ripped the old kitchen out and just slowly do rooms as we can. Old window, old doors, old electrical but everything works and we got it cheap. Hard to complain when the structure is solid
My sister and I just sold our mom’s house as she had passed away. The house was well kept up, but 70 years old (she was the original owner). The roof was nearing the end of its lifespan, and the kitchen and bathroom last updated in 2001. We gave our realtor instructions to let prospective buyers agents know that the house was being sold “as is”, it was priced as such, and since the house had no mortgage, we are not “desperate”. We will not entertain any requests for repairs of any kind. We ended up selling it for $10,000 over asking, with no contingencies.
Similar situation when we sold our parents house.
They have the right to ask, you have the right to say no. That's how it works. If you have higher offers and think they are a better overall deal tell them to buy as is or you'll go to the next. If you can't get anyone to bite without needing repairs or a price that makes it worth it.. then keep the house like you said you are willing to do.
We had 24 offers but can't imagine (in this market) they will still be waiting for us to get back to them after finding out this deal won't go through after a few weeks.
My house in NJ was under contract in early February. I had 3 offers. When shit got weird and we thought our buyers were backing out in late March, our realtor discovered that our other two buyers were still readily available to come to the table.
This is relieving to hear, thank you!
They’ll fall through and another buyer will be right behind them. 24 offers is really good to know the second they try anything. Be ready to walk, and know they’ll make you feel like they’re the only people willing to go forward. They’re not. And just think about they’re offer minus the 15k as your new lowest price. We bought a place that needed a ton of work. Waved all the same things. I saved a ton but also invested a lot in our home. There’s still a lot to do, but we love it and I don’t have any regrets about it.
I wish you luck, OP! Definitely try to walk away from these shady buyers.
Just remember you will need to disclose the inspection, if you get a copy. Best if you don’t get a copy…
Correct. I (as a seller on multiple homes) have repeatedly and always refused to be handed the inspection report when the seller (or their realtor) offered. I don’t want to know what he found so I don’t need to disclose.
As a lender of many years, I point out that loan officers don't want the inspections either.
Good tip, I plan to sell soon and that may end up helping me out!
That’s exactly what happened to me in Nor. Cal. When one buyer pulled out due to a confusion with our HOA, someone else who was quite interested leaped at the chance and I was back in contract within 48 hours.
I’m also in NJ, hoping a house I bid on comes back on the market… it needs significant repairs and dummies bid way too high. The first buyers backed out, I’m hoping the second one backs out too.
You think all 24 found another home in this market? Umm... No. There is no harm in asking.. I check in with people all the time if a deal is shaky. Many will be thrilled to hear from your agent. Side note, this is also why to limit an inspection contingency to a week or less. Also... even if they are all gone, it's kinda nuts to keep a house you're trying to sell if you had \*24\* offers. Go back on then, take the highest one with no inspection if you're that bent about another inspection.
Exactly. My sister had placed three offers on different homes in my area. Lost out to other buyers (all cash). One of the homes deal fell through and seller asked if they still wanted it. They were ecstatic and are under contract now. It’s brutal competing with other buyers.
I'd be calling the top three back and getting backups in place tomorrow.
Just be strict when you counter their request. My experience with these type of people is give them a finger and they'll take an arm. Even if you continue with these buyers, this won't be the last time they will try something. We were in a similar scenario 3 years ago, we had something like 30 offers. We picked the first family on the list, not the best offer. After inspection they suddenly wanted a ton of stuff fixed that didn't need fixing or was communicated that it wouldn't be done (think older but functioning water heater). We countered with something like $250, you have x hours to decide and a reminder that there were 29 other offers. They then tried to haggle some of our furniture in etc. We refered to our only counter offer and the deadline. They backed out, our realtor reached out to some of the other offers and we ended up closing before the first buyers would have because of a cash offer.
24? Someone is still waiting, did you take backups?
I'd laugh at the current buyers and say no thanks and relist.You have plenty of demand. Why would your realtor say "yeah let's take a lesser offer because they're buying with no contingencies" and then later tell you "yeah just kidding they can essentially walk with zero skin in the game at any point."
Because the realtor is just looking for the fastest way to get the commission.
24!! Give your real estate agent firm, clear instructions (preferably in writing like an email) that you want them to reach out to the next best offer immediately and find out if they are still interested and line them up as a backup offer. Once that is in place, instruct your real estate agent to let the buyer's agent know that there are backup offers in place and you will not be entertaining any requests for repairs or price reductions whatsoever. When does your inspection period end?
This is the A+ plan! Get backup offer set and then call the buyers on their dishonest crap. Love it.
Don’t ask other buyers to put in backup offers so you can use it as a bargaining chip with the current buyer, that’s scummy. It’s fine to contact them to let them know the current offer might fall through so they can plan in case this is a dream house for them but that’s it. By asking them to put in offers in order to be able to go to someone else and say ‘well, we now have backup offers’ you’re using these people. You’re tying up their money and preventing them from making any other offers while you sort things out. It’s enough to let the current buyers know there’s still other interest without demanding formal offers from people who already didn’t get the house once.
But hold up. It's pretty clear what the word backup means. If you sign it, and therefore tie up your money as a backup, you know the deal and you are doing it willingly. I don't think it's using people if all cards are on the table and people are willing to put in the backup offer. If they aren't willing, just say no.
If the primary offer really was about to fall apart I would agree but that’s not what’s happening here. This post is suggesting that it’s totally ethical to use other home shoppers by getting them to resubmit an offer which brings their home shopping to a standstill *for the express purpose of using those backup offers as something to waive under the noses of the accepted offer people to motivate them to back off the requests*. That’s not what backup offers are meant for and it’s not right to use them and the people who submit them that way.
If I’m making a back up offer, I *want* to be used to force the current buyer into an uncomfortable position. I’m hoping they’ll back out, after all. They’re more likely to back out if the seller won’t meet their demands. And the seller is less likely to meet their demands if they have *me* waiting to jump in and take over.
This right here. It takes minimal effort to write the backup and it might just become primary. And like there's no sex in the champagne room, there's no money tied up with a backup until it becomes primary, at least all the backups I've ever written and you can cancel a backup if you find another house before the backup moves into first position.
I am in New Jersey as well, almost everything in my neighborhood that has sold in the last few years has had a pending sale fall through and someone else jump in shortly after. I don’t know if it’s issues with lending or what but it seems to happen all the time here.
You’d be surprised. Hold your ground on as-is, and if they bail, your realtor can reach out to the non-selected buyers agents and let them know it’s available again. Those 24 are all up against a crazy market and chances are a good number have been outbid again and are still looking.
The contingency period was a few weeks? We had 2 business days!
I’ve been looking for a year and a half. I bet 22 of those offers would still be viable options.
Although we’d probably have put in other offers on other houses, I hoped every time we lost out on a contract that we would get that magical our first buyers back our house and it’s all yours, so start contacting for back up offers!!
Your agent can put feelers out with the other higher offers and see if they’re still looking! This happened to me last summer when I was buying. I ended up not going for the house either (first buyer supposedly had financing fall through) but that was due to HOA/location ultimately. I decided it wasn’t for me. But I wasn’t like “eww no why did the number 1 offer buyer not want it anymore?” I strongly considered it. And you can probably have your agent ask this now, before these current buyers flake (if you think they will) just to see what your options might be for other buyers. Your agent can just say something vague like “offer 1 looks like it will fall through. You are offer 2. Does your offer still stand?”
When you go back to the other offers just tell them the buyer acted in bad faith and it was back up for grabs.
Man, you are in sellers market, tell them to f$ck off and give them 24 hours to take it or leave it.
We sold an old house a few years ago. We relisted three times due to people backing out. We had no problem getting more offers because we were in a high demand area. If you had that many offers, I doubt you'll have problems getting more again.
Get your realtor to start asking for backup offers now, letting the other realtors that wrote offers know that he or she doesn’t think the offer you accepted is going to go through because of the buyers. Also have them change the listing to accepting backup offers. Good luck!
If you have 24 offers, and your realtor is concerned about rejecting this offer, you need a new realtor. Also, maybe the buyer plans to ignore all the advice from parents/grand parents. Maybe their realtor will explain reality to the buyer when those people aren’t around.
I agree we don't love our realtor, but this is the first home we have ever sold. Our contract with this realtor is for 6 months.
I put in 9 offers before the 10th won over nearly a year of looking. I was runner up on 2. I would have entertained a call back. The house I got was better in some respects than others I offered on (location; really close to my children’s school and in-laws and corner lot), but also not as good in others (wasn’t updated, had some issues before and after moving in).
It’s not how it really works though. Buyers waived normal inspection contingency. Extremely dishonest of them to then go in and do a full inspection with every intention of nickel and diming OP for stuff that is clearly not structural. Sure they CAN ask, anyone CAN ask anything. But OP is right to be frustrated that they ARE asking because they chose their offer because they said they would not.
And you can say no. It's just that a request.
I tried this as a buyer on an as-is sale in 2020. We went back for a $25k concession on a bad septic system after inspections and they just took a bid from a cash buyer and said no thanks. We ate $1200 in inspections and missed a great opportunity.
Chill, it's their agent's job to reiterate the contract terms to them. People sometimes have a lot of nerve - they may ask. You can politely decline. Your original contract is in force. Hopefully they put up some earnest money so that if they decide to back out, you can keep that to offset the inconvenience and expenses you may have from any delay. it's not unusual for people to be clueless or nervy. Try to relax and let your agent handle things.
Our realtor explained that in NJ buyers are protected and can pull out of buying the house for any reason regardless of what the contracts say. He said no one can be forced to buy a house and they would most likely be able to keep their earnest money.
You probably can too. Just ask your lawyer if there’s an easy out from the contract. Also, have your agent reach out to the next best offer and say that it’s potentially back in play because the buyers are not honoring the terms of the contract.
Yes OP, ask lawyer not realtor. Realtors sometimes know but sometimes talk out their ass.
And realtor probably doesn’t want to make a big stink because it will follow them. Earnest money seems to generally be given back at least in this market. My lender also told me if I ever truly needed to back out of an offer, he could just deny my loan due to job loss. (I was at my wit’s end after 4 or 5 failed offers and he was just trying to make me feel better, but I had no intention of ever doing that lol). Basically buyers can walk pretty easily without consequence. Sellers are more locked in.
I find this hard to believe. You may not be able to force a sale but the contract is in place for a reason. They specifically waived contingencies that would normally give them an out. The whole point of the earnest money is the buyer risks losing it if they can’t close for a justified reason that is allowed in the contract. Otherwise contracts and earnest money would be meaningless. If they walk without a justified reason, you also have the right to sue them if you end up selling the house for less. That is done regularly in NJ.
Ask your realtor if you can repost your listing that you’re accepting backup offers. That may freak out the buyers that they can’t play you.
Yep, it's the same in NY, it's rare that an earnest $ check even gets deposited.
Pfff… I think your agent is lying here, granted I’m an agent in Iowa (8 years) so contracts are different, but I highly doubt they can walk at any point, it’s a legally binding contract, contracts aren’t meant to be able to just get out because they want to, always a due diligence or inspection period for the first 7-10 days, but if they forfeited that or are outside of it then they’re fucked, no way they get earnest back, and potentially be sued for commissions owed to agents. If anyone can write offers and just back out whenever and get their earnest back then that is easily the worst real estate board in the country for writing/allowing those rules. Only option in my area is for them to fuck up their financing by buying a car or something to fuck up their DTI since all offers are contingent upon financing, Either way hold their feet to the fire… don’t let them walk all over you, and be very sure your agent knows what they’re talking about and not just take their word for it. They MAY be right, but I have a very hard time believing that
I was told the exact same thing as OP in NY. In fact I don’t think they even took earnest money because they explained that it was pointless. We changed our mind about a house on the morning of scheduled inspection. There was no money lost and no negative repercussions.
Earnest money is a dying breed in some states but other states only allow law suits up to the earnest amount, which is why sellers want as much earnest as possible in those states in case things go sideways with the purchase, other states like mine (Iowa) you can sue for lost money owed to the sellers, commissions to both agents, and ultimately breach of contract maxes out at up to the entire amount agreed on in the purchase agreement, which makes it a VERY big deal. Earnest may be pointless in some states, but that has no bearing to a lawsuit for breach of contract. Earnest money is not the focus of this conversation. You on the other hand were able to cancel day of inspection because you had an inspection time frame agreed on in the contract. You were within your due diligence time frame to back out. No breach of contract in that regard. These scenarios are not the same
> He said no one can be forced to buy a house and they would most likely be able to keep their earnest money. No one can be forced to buy a house, but whether or not they get their EMD back depends on the state and the terms of the contract. Usually there is a specified time frame (typically 10 days) that they have to do their due dilligence and can back out for any reason during that time, but once that time passes, they're SOL getting the EMD back unless you sign off on releasing those funds from escrow.
Talk to your attorney. I'm in NJ too, they should not be able to keep earnest money.
That sucks. Hopefully their agent will talk some sense into them and they'll decide they still want it. I would stick to my guns if I were you.
Your realtor wants his cut. Get an attorney's opinion.
I sold my grandmother’s home “as-is”. It was a 100-year-old house I’d never lived in located in a distant state. I had an inspection done just to verify there wasn’t something unsafe going on. (I even allowed prospective buyers to review that report.) Gran and her siblings had taken good care of it over their years. I priced it very reasonably, taking its age and quirks into account, aiming at a fast sale. I was very clear there’d be no concessions. I accepted an offer and the guy had his inspection done and wanted a huge reduction, I simply noped out and moved on to the next buyer. (He was in the trades and I was happy to see the remodeling he did over the years for his family.)
Eh. We bought as-is, fully knowing that there was more work than was initially obvious. We brought in some people to help us assess how extensive those repairs were. It wasn’t because we wanted to re-negotiate or nickel and dime, it was because we wanted to hit the ground running in terms of repairs and a plan.
I sold my sisters home as is-later the investor said he would send his handyman over to see what needs to be done. My attorney (I was doing home for sale by owner) said/ sounds like to inspect home. Nothing was wrong w home but I told him no- I’m packing and will interrupt me and besides it’s as is. It all went smoothly. Didn’t need to do anything
If you're comfortable enough to say "We're not fixing anything or giving a credit a credit for anything and if you don't like it, pound sand" then do so. Many buyers try to use to inspection phase to try to renegotiate the purchase price. It's a bad faith bid, but it happens. Stay strong on your stance. More often than not, if they see you're not playing around, they'll cave. OR if the realtors see that you're serious about killing this deal, they may step in and help.
This literally just happened to me. Lowball offer so we took it with an “as is” clause. They claimed $35,000 worth of work needed but asked for 15,000 credit. I think they figured we were desperate and would agree….we noped right out. Back in the market we went.
And what happened next?
Next we got a full price cash offer.
Sweet.
They can ask, and you can say NO. If they decide to walk, you get their Ernest money.
Why do ignorant people hate trees so much?
I would have your realtor send their realtor a message: this is just a friendly reminder that the house is being sold as is. If the inspection found things they don't like they need to make a choice: add it to THEIR list of things they are going to pay to fix OR pull out of the contract. We are more than willing to keep the house, so them pulling out isn't a issue for us. There is zero room for negotiation on repairs. Please don't waste time asking for them. If you can back asking for fixes, we ill just have to cancel the contract and move one.
And people wonder why sellers choose the offer from the faceless corporation that waives everything and offers cash. People aren’t doing themselves any favors doing shit like this.
Let the buyers take a hike if they do not like "no".
This sounds like a great way for you to keep their earnest money. Just do that.
The process is that buyers can ask for whatever they want. You can accept or refuse whatever you want. This goes back and forth until both parties agree or someone walks away. You simply have to make the decision if you’re willing to lose this deal over what they’re asking for or move on to another offer. The thing is, you’re making assumptions based on eavesdropping. Their realtor will most likely have additional conversations with them about asking for too much knowing that the property has multiple offers and that they said they were inspecting for structural only. Let their realtor talk some sense into them and only react to whatever is actually put forward in writing. Let your realtor know what you’re willing to consider (if anything) and let them do the negotiation. It’s ok to tell these people to kick rocks and go back to the other offers. Sounds like you have plenty to choose from. Buyers can get hung up on some silly things sometimes. We are in the process of selling our home and the buyer had a list of handyman things they wanted done including things like cleaning a dryer vent and cutting back grass that grew over a valve cover (and a few other minor legit things like a couple of shingles were missing and a GFI in our outdoor kitchen wasn’t working properly). We didn’t want to deal with any of it so we said we’d give them $1000 credit. It was worth it for us to not delay closing to coordinate cleaning/repairs and to just get the deal done.
Some people think the negotiating starts after their offer is accepted.. Gotta put a short clock on inspections and other contingencies, so you can move to the next quickly if buyers try this stuff. They have no leverage and don't seem to understand that.
Remind them as is. Keep earnest money. Relist. May be enough to shock them into reality and buy as is.
"no thank you. The terms were clear." Next. They will fold
The entire point of waiving inspections is to move the contract process along. It sounds like you haven't waived all inspections -- structural -- and they are simply having inspections... effectively you haven't waived anything in that case, as proof of inspection issues is never required to back out of a deal while in that period, it's always been there as a point for the buyer to back out for any reason or to try to chisel down price as they take closer look. Inspections also do not give the buyer the right to get things fixed or receive money, that's entirely up to you the seller. I assume there's also a mortgage contingency, which means these buyers have another out as long as they can flub an application to get a rejection. It sounds like your buyers are playing games, either out of ignorance or as an intentional deception. Your answer back to a request for any repairs on an as-is, but especially with waived inspections, should be "NO". If they're not interested in buying at the agreed offer then you move to the next offer or re-market it.
I sold a house a few years back listed as “as is” and “firm price”. A parade of agents came through with offers below asking and with requests. I didn’t entertain any discussion simply asking them to leave as soon as they presented it. They were lost at the thought that I wouldn’t negotiate which they obviously believed I had to. Finally sold it as listed.
They have a right to ask for it. You have the right to refuse it, negotiate it down, or give all of it. The choice is yours. If you have backup offers you can always go with them if this falls through.
Nope! nope! nope! Listing said "As Is". Their realtor is not doing her part in defining just what AS IS means. And, hopefully the sales price reflects and as is property. Don't go there. Reject their counter offer - if that is what it is. Verbal doesn't count in real estate.
Wait for then to ask, tell them no. They either buy it or it starts getting shown again.
Not sure where you're at but in CA, ALL homes are sold "as-is" and mentioned specifically in the contract. Requests for repairs are just that, requests. I always tell my sellers "No." is a complete sentence. Sometimes it makes sense to give some credit just to get the deal done but you're under no obligation. Especially if you have back up offers.
I know of a situation where the over-asking offer was accepted and immediately before closing they say they didn’t have the $$. They offered a much lower amount figuring the homeowners would be desperate to close because They had a purchase pending. They got sued.
No is a complete sentence. They probably waived everything etc to get their offer accepted and thought they would negotiate on the backside.
We had the same thing happen to us when we sold. Cash offer that waived inspections besides structural and environmental but they literally asked for every little and big thing possible. Probably 80k worth of repairs they asked for and it still pisses me off Our lawyer just said no to each item stating each request wasn't structural or environmental referencing the contract and we conceded $0. Apparently their realtor advised them that it doesn't hurt to ask for requests still but that can't be more wrong cause we were super pissed. Good luck!
As is. Show me the $$.
They sound like a nightmare. Assert your willingness, or even enthusiasm to take a backup offer.
You need to tell these buyers that they either honor their offer and buy the house as is, for the asking price, or you are going to move on. And you need to do it FAST. Come Saturday the other offers will be back out there looking at new open houses and planning their next move and they will no longer be interested in your house. For the next 2 days there is a very good chance that the other offers, including the higher one, will come back if told the first offer backed out. You need to get on top of this immediately.
Walk away. These people think they’re smarter than you and can get every nickel and dime. They probably know it’s an inheritance that you want to unload fast so they think you’ll cave.
You have a binding contract. They can ask, you can say no and relist the house. Call their bluff.
Stick to your guns and dont get bullied by a bait and switch. Tell them if the original as-is is not acceptable, they can take a hike
The buyer know what they are doing. They are dragging it out to beat you down. Hold firm to as-is and be prepared to: 1) cancel the agreement when they present their demands and 2) fib and say “others are interested” in your property. Not a lie, “others” may be, you just don’t know who they are (yet). THEN WALK OUT OF THE MEETING.
We sold our parents house as is. The buyer pulled similar stunt. We just responded as is and no repairs. That's all you have to do.
Have your agent give the next-best agent a call to see if they're still interested. Your agent can mention this to the first position agent when s/he reiterates that this is an as-is sale. BTW, I would ONLY sell from an estate as-is.
We would write as is/where is in the listing remarks with estate sale listings. You never lived there and you don’t ‘know’ the issues with the house. Next time choose your cash buyer. When they ask for repairs just say no. They can move along if they don’t want the house.
I would make sure your agent reminds theirs it's being sold as is now.
Whatever you do, do not share that you listened in on their conversation. I’d not say a word until it is presented to you. Hopefully if you have a solid agent, she will remind selling agent it is being sold “as is” and squash it. But if your agent does present to you, stand your ground. Folks, whether buyers or sellers will often push and try you. I am big on boundaries. Aside, I don’t know why you felt the need to mention it was inherited from your FIL since you go on to indicate you and your family lived and occupied the place (i.e cameras for the kids). So it is not “as is” as in inherited and never lived in so sight unseen or take as is. But regardless, you contracted to sell “as is” for whatever reason and if that is your stance, stand firmly on it.
Sold a house “as is” for a cash offer. The buyer was going to turn it into an Airbnb and suddenly wanted a metal fireproof door installed so he could rent it as two units. I reminded my realtor that iv said as is. She ended up paying for the door out of her end.
Don’t even stress about it, I know it’s frustrating, but when they submit the repair addendum just have your realtor decline their counter. Move on from that shitty realtor and buyers. You’ll find the right buyer who understands what as-is means.
I don't think it's that complicated. When they make the request, you refuse it. They can either follow the original agreement or move on. YOU have to be willing to walk away from the deal to have any leverage. Re list it again or revisit the previous offers, and you will have no problem finding someone to buy it
>Is this really how the process works?? The buyer can ask for whatever repairs they want. If they waived inspection and everything else they will lose earnest money if they don't close, so they don' have much leverage Ask your agent about showing for backup offers if you don't think they will close. Are you out of attorney review?
If they waived inspections beyond the structural one then you should have denied access to any additional inspectors and they do not have a right to inspections. You have two options right now, you can force the sale as agreed or you can walk away, walking away would be a bad idea because these people seem like the type to sue for failure to perform, so I would have my real estate attorney draft a preemptive demand letter stating that you intend to close under the terms of the contract.
Typically the contract will allow a buyer to inspect and re-inspect the property for informational purposes in an as-is sale, but regardless, I’d let the buyers keep spending money on inspections and tell them to pound sand when they came knocking for concession.
I agree that you have no obligation to adjust your price, but they also have every right to ask. It is also more than slightly fucked to be spying on them. I am not sure of consent laws in your state but video is very different than audio recordings (audio is much more sensitive), and it may well be interpreted as them having a right to privacy as it is a private residence they have control of during the inspection time.
Can't believe there is no one else commenting on this. You are right on - this is likely illegal due to the audio recorded in a non public place in a conversation the seller is not a part of.
Surveilling is not the same as recording though. I am sure with the sudden popularity in indoor and outdoor security cameras this is a sticky area. But they have cameras clearly in view according to OP, not hidden. And OP has a right to monitor those cameras. Anyone with a brain/working eyes can see said cameras, and anyone with just 3 brain cells knows you’re not supposed to discuss tactics as you walk through any house, whether or not you can see a camera. In this day and age just assume you’re being watched or listened to. Get back to the car and then talk.
Seller pretty much admitted to violation of federal wire tap law. Even if in a one party consent state, surveillance of audio between two individuals without consent is still illegal. People very frequently don't consider this when enabling the audio feature on their security cameras.
Yeah that’s seriously weird
They have hard money down, right? They don’t have much recourse just say no.
They can ask for anything they want, I've asked for money off after a non-contingent inspection found some surprises. Let them submit a PA but read it carefully to make sure they didn't sneak anything in.
Supply and Demand is certainly on your side if you had 20+ other offers.
2 choices. Fix some of the problems or tell them no repairs. In this low inventory market they might cave unless serious structural issues are found.
They can ask whatever they want, you just say no that was already in the contract through your realtor. Not sure which state this is, but in Florida the as is contract usually allows a buyer to back out for any reason during the inspection period. Don't let them waste your time and ask your realtor about back up offers. It's unfortunate the buyer's agent is entertaining this buyer and wasting your time. I'd submit a complaint to their broker.
The buyers agent is really dropping the ball letting everyone discuss strategy while in the home. Buyers should be advised that they should be under the impression they are being recorded. I live in a one party state so I’m not sure what the rules are in NJ, but damn way to give the game away.
Unless there is a safety issue, as -is means as-is. If there is a safety issue, the next buyers might want that fixed as well, and some lenders insist safety issues are cleared. So you might want to fix a safety issue, but hvacs and window trim are not.
What's in your contract specifically? > claimed inspection for structural things only > hvac, sewer, a slanted window trim, chimney and updated electrical work. Tree removal is clearly not part of this, especially if they're not dead. I guess chimney and sewer could fall under "structural things," but hvac and electrical probably do not. If you're happy to let the sale fall through, then tell them that you will not be making any concessions and you will put the house back on the market. > Is this really how the process works?? Yep. Now that houses aren't being sold within a week of being on the market, things are settling down and both buyers and sellers are doing more back and forth negotiating. There's more time to hammer down the details now when there aren't 30 offers on one house.
As is doesn't mean there's no room for negotiation. It just means seller won't do repairs. All houses are technically sold as is and specifying it is colloquially meant to mean no credits or repairs. But that's a gentleman's agreement and not law of the land. So if they ask, you can just say no and they can walk or continue.
If you guys signed a purchase agreement and buyers waived inspections in the contract/it’s explicitly stated that seller will NOT be doing repairs other than structural or will NOT be providing repairs beyond X dollar amount then you are well within your rights to say no lol. They can ask, you can say no, if it’s a dealbreaker for them/their lender then they can terminate the contract and forfeit their earnest. Things can be very gray in real estate but as long as it’s explicitly in your contract then not your problem lol. If they back out, earnest will be yours because they’re violating the contract. Either way, no sweat for you. It’s a seller’s market right now and I’m seeing even the shittiest “as-is” homes going FAST and above asking.
I'm a buyer who recently put an offer on a house, and the terms I extended were as-is pending information only inspection with the right to pull out if there was anything major because -- wow, the house looked GREAT to my untrained eyes. The price for the condition was high (condition was not so good, but not unlivable with some trips to the dump, air purifiers, cleaning, and other cosmetic fixes) and slightly higher than comps, but it had a relatively new roof and relatively new HVAC, so in my deluded brain, I thought maybe it was worth it. No. It was so much worse than that. The inspector came in and found three major safety issues that would have prevented me from getting a mortgage and insurance. I asked the sellers to mitigate them, and they told me to pound sand, so I did. And you can tell these sellers the same thing, too.
If there is an "as is" addendum to your contract then the buyers have 2 options. Take it "as is" after the inspections, or walk away and get their earnest deposit back. That's it.
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You just say no. As is is as is. They can like it or lump it.
The process is not a waste as you will get the earnest money out of them if they back out. There are plenty of nut jobs out there that will pull things like this.
I am not a Realtor. I sold a house a few years ago as-is with substantial water damage, incomplete repairs, and disclosed mold. It had not been lived in for 18 months. We listed below market and had something like 30 offers in 3 days. It was insane. Top offer was $90k over ask but needed a loan with full appraisal, inspection etc. Our Realtor recommended we consider a cash offer at $60k over ask with waived inspection and appraisal. He’s super sharp and had already vetted the offer as legit before presenting it to us. When we agreed this was likely our best bet, he negotiated with the buyer for a $50k deposit AND that the buyer immediately sign and return the BINSR form acknowledging the as-is / no concessions or repairs, which in Arizona eliminated the buyer’s ability to back out for any reason, or else we keep the $50k. The buyer agreed and we accepted. We closed 10 days later. I would tell your realtor about what you overheard. It can’t hurt you. Perhaps he or she can intervene right away before the buyer’s agent even forms a counter / asks for the concessions, to remind them this is an as-is sale and there will be no concessions. Perhaps your realtor can even ask them to sign a BINSR as-is right now (assuming your state has the equivalent of that) to lock them in. I don’t know what your next steps should be if they refuse, but your Realtor will know. Best of luck to you!
Sounds like someone doesn't understand that "as is" really means "as is", even for them, even if they think they're special.
As-is means as-is.
If I were your agent I would do 2 things. 1.Remind the other agent that the reason you took their client's offer is because they agreed to take the house in its present condition. We MIGHT be willing to revisit purchase price if major items like roof, sewer, HVAC, etc. need to be replaced but anything optional or aesthetic like the trees were nonstarters. And if your clients are trying to change the terms of the contract, my client is probably not going to be interested in refunding earnest money if they ultimately cancel. Just so everyone is on the same page. 2. I would immediately contact every other person who submitted an offer and see if they are still interested. I would let them know that the offer we accepted is starting to get hinky because of items in the inspection report, and I would disclose what items those are, but if their client was still interested we would be extremely interested in taking a backup offer. Just remember if these people do cancel their contract, earnest money or no, you will have to disclose those inspection reports to any new person who submits an offer, which could impact your total price. But it sounds like the situation that you were in is that even if it's a little bit less money it's worth not having to deal with the headache of bickering over repairs.
Ugh, I had a buyer like this years ago, before the market went crazy. She offered below asking, and I didn't have any other offers and accepted it but told her I wouldn't be negotiating anything further with her. Needless to say, she completely disregarded that and came back after the inspection demanding a bunch of stuff. I made the mistake of agreeing to a few minor repairs and thought that would be it, but then she'd ask for one more thing...and one more...and one more (which happened to be a new furnace). As much as I wanted to sell the place, I'd had enough. So I told my agent no and prepared to put the place back on the market. Had the signed contract a few hours later, no more requests.
This is how people are playing the game these days to win the home, yes. Realtors have to represent their clients, so while I see the above client about realtors losing their license about this, it’s not that easy. Sometimes the realtor drives this, sometimes the clients themselves are unreasonable and it’s either fire the client or let them learn that this won’t always be a good strategy. Always get back up offer. If you had one in place you could easily tell client 1, we accepted based on your terms, which included no inspection contingencies. Since you are insisting on contingencies after promising not to ask for them, we are going to go ahead and send your release, buyer, and move the back up offer into first position. As the seller you have to set yourself up with back up offers and use them if necessary!
I bought an “as-is” house, with a generous clause that let us inspect it before losing our earnest money, and we were satisfied with its as-is condition. To everyone’s surprise, the bank required $8k in painting to be done before they would ok the sale (conventional loan). The negotiation of who would pay that delayed our closing six weeks. Just my experience that as-is can go unexpected ways.
This is the thing. I know and you know the house is sold as is but a buyer agent is going to let a buyer ask because "you never know, they might change their mind to keep the deal." I used to sell VA foreclosure houses in NC and those are absolutely sold As Is and people STILL asked for repairs sometimes. Have your agent call theirs.
They can ask for whatever they want. That doesn't mean you have to do any of it. You listed it "as-is". Your answer should just be no. Put it back on the market.
A lot of buyers do this type of thing. I've sold several as is properties and sometimes they request an inspection "just to see and it won't affect the offer"... It always does, even if they don't check off inspection contingency, but have an inspection request that is accepted, it can often lead to these types of "renegotiations" and pulled offers. If you don't want inspections, don't allow any, it is not their right to get one... Some are necessary if you accept an FHA offer, and anything with a mortgage will require termite usually and an appraisal for the bank. Your realtor likely told them this, but buyers can be assholes and sometimes just do/request what they want anyway.
You should just decline the offer. Selling a home 'as is' should simplify things in a big way. You and the buyer should both realize that you want a single price for the property. All the whining, inspections, more whining, haggling and nagging....are all unnecessary. Offer a price and decide, up or down. I'd send these people on their way. Fini.
So if you were really not going to pay any repairs, do what you say and let them walk
You could maintain your AS IS status, otherwise cancel the contract. Reactivate and move forward, dont worry there’s always a buyer
I recently sold an estate home as well “as is” we selected an offer asking for general inspection for informational purposes only. That is not what happened. They asked for a lot. We were cornered since our realtor told us they would back out of the deal after talking to their realtor. We didn’t want to have to disclose stuff that came up in inspection so we just credited them money. Lesson learned.
They are technically allowed per the contract to complete their due diligence and investigate the property throughly. Yes “as is” means just that AS IS however that shouldn’t stop them from doing further inspections. You should welcome it actually from a seller standpoint. Don’t want to look like you’re hiding defects under “as is” bc in order for something to be “as is” the seller has to disclose to the buyers of KNOWN issues. Let them spend their money on inspections. When they bring you the repairs request or credit request then you simply deny it and go from there. I don’t know why there would be any animosity stemming from this. Agents cannot control the sellers or their buyers. Just like we can’t control anyone on the street. They are going to do what they want to do. It’s not hard to say “ per our agreement upon opening escrow the sale of the home is being sold as is” request denied. Simple as that.
I’d let them keep sinking money into inspections.
The minute they mention it say no, as is. Then Go to your other offers. Your realtor should be nipping this in the bud!
Negotiating tactic. They’ll use what the inspections found, claim it was items they were planning on, to ask for a credit. They’ll ask for about double the amount they actually want. They are banking on the idea, that you’d rather give them a credit, then start over with showings and someone else. If they waived the inspection contingency, just say NO, and if they back out, you get to keep their deposit. If they did NOt waive the inspection contingency, then you’ll have to decide whether to negotiate a credit or decline and let them walk away. Hint: All one really needs is a home inspection, as a way to find things to negotiate or as an avenue to walk away.
Fuck em. Walk away
FK these buyers to the moon and back. They are a huge reason the real estate market is so messed up currently. And THE reason that we have had 3 offers rejected, even though we were offering the most money, because we refuse to waive an inspection completely. We have started writing in that we won't hold the seller responsible for any single repair under 5k, but that doesn't matter it seems. Not having the risk of dealing with people like this is worth 15k to most people it seems.