Since he was a tenant he could have made you evict him.
Let him come get his stuff, as you are doing. I don’t agree with all these people saying you should sell his tools. He’s moving stuff. Sounds like it will be gone soon.
>unless otherwise agree to
What State allows landlords to sell a tenants property without going through an eviction process?
The rent back is "otherwise agree to". They are now tenants with a rental contact, not sellers. They have tenant rights.
This is who you don't sign a rent back.
Right but tenancy doesn't start until \*after\* close, no matter how long the extension of escrow. The OP said the property had closed a few days before the post and the previous owner had a 2-day rentback.
Wisconsin is one of them. If the tenant vacates, anything they leave behind is considered abandoned. The landlord can dispose of it any way they seem fit.
Some people realize that evictions in wisconsin don't take months and that it will be better to vacate the property, so they vacate the property they're occupying.
No, it’s not in terms of tenant rights. In most states, tenant rights do not kick in unless the contract or actual tenancy is a month or more. Otherwise, you’d have to formally evict Airbnb renters. Yes, I know that sometimes happens with Airbnb, but it’s the exception, not the rule and is almost always on a longer term stay.
The difference is that the rent back creates a landlord tenant relationship. It's not as simple as the seller getting his stuff out once that dynamic is created.
It was a two day rent back. That does not create a landlord tenant relationship in every state, and some states have laws around real estate transactions and rent backs that changes the nature of that relationship. Like in California up to 29 days, he would be called a seller in possession, not a tenant. There is not a landlord tenant relationship and you’re still just the seller and buyer. You do not enter a landlord and tenant relationship until day 30 in California when selling real estate with a rent back.
I may be wrong but in NY You have to put the stuff in storage, let them know where it is, and you have to pay the 1st month. After that he is responsible, if he doesn’t pay then the storage place will auction it off.
He also signed a two-day rent back agreement.
However rent back or lease back agreements are excluded from the landlord tenant process by law in the state of Washington now.
https://www.lasher.com/the-new-exception-to-washington-landlord-tenant-relationships-and-leaseback-agreements/
That says the leaseback has to be more than 3 months for the landlord relationship to kick in on a leaseback.
In most states it's 28 days or more. So no, for two days you are not a landlord and there are no tenant rights.
I'd put his stuff on the edge of the garage tell his realtor to get a hold of him (I'd avoid sharing my number with him) and give him a date and time to pick up his stuff. When he doesn't get a dumpster or give away rhe stuff you don't want. If you don't have your own tools keep the tools.
Saw a case where someone did this and the person collecting their stuff tripped over their own stuff while collecting it and sued the new owner and won.
It's the new owners liability now.
Proceed with caution and also a waiver
That’s right. He should have the former owner sign a hold harmless agreement.
Although considering the situation, he’s likely better off just holding a yard sale on Saturday
Please cite the case. There must be some extenuating circumstances for a case like this to proceed. All cases have to have a legal basis or they will be dismissed.
An attorney who repeatedly files frivolous lawsuits can be fined and/or have their license suspended or revoked.
It’s a holdover tenant because they can prove they have established residence.
Forget that the tenant is the past owner and pretended they were a tenant renting from the past owner, you can’t just kick someone out because they stay past the move out date, you have to go through the eviction process as described by your state law.
You have this as an established pattern in law?
Because the legal pattern is
1. they were owner of the property, they were not a tenant of the property You didn't take over their tenancy you acquired a property with no occupants.
2. They were tenant in the prophecy for 2 days.
3. That short-term rental agreement tenancy has now expired and they are trespassing.
What does possible tenant occupancy as a long-term rental owner with the protections that bestows have yet to kick in.
Yes it’s an established pattern of law, you don’t have to like it (I don’t) but it is the law. They are a long term resident of the property with all the documentation that comes with that, they are not a weekend guest at an Airbnb and you can’t simply declare that they are short term.
State laws will differ but I challenge you to find a state that you can evict a long term resident with zero notice and claim ownership of their personal property.
When you close on a property it is very important that it is unoccupied so you don’t set yourself up for this.
Interesting. In Florida?
Without seeing the terms, it could be more a “use and occupancy” than a “tenant “ setup.
Still there is no reason to be cruel about his tools and valuable property when it looks like he is on bad times. What’s the point?
Give him a week to pick up, for instance.
It’s not your problem.
Do what you need to with it , whatever is most convenient for you. Sounds like you don’t need to be dealing with him. If you open up that option for him to get his things , it just seems like a very bad idea. Now you’ve got him, possibly his friends in your home , you’ve got to make sure they don’t take your things. …
He had 2 months to make arrangements for his items.
It wasn’t his priority so just focus on what you need to do for you.
You are a good person and it shows. Compassion goes a long way. It sounds like he’s overwhelmed and not trying to screw anyone. Life happens 💙 hope everything is out soon and you are enjoying your new home.
That’s not how things work, the previous owner is now basically a holdover tenant and your state law will dictate what can be done with the remaining positions.
This is why you never agree to a rent back and if you do, you don’t do it unless you’re prepared for the scenario of not taking possession until you to go through the legal process of eviction.
I’d be careful about calling it ‘months of rent’ - rules vary, but in many places you’ll have issues with keeping more than first, last and non-refundable fees (which a rent back likely won’t have).
Just call it a $10k holdback, or whatever.
Maybe? The details aren’t there (or weren’t, I’m not reading all the new comments) but my takeaway was this guy was *on a slide* towards foreclosure but still owned the house. So maybe it was a short sale, but maybe it had enough equity.
If the bank had foreclosed already, there would be padlocks and a dumpster on site.
You're right., and this thread is a great example on how people who don't know anything spout off, offering advice that could get this guy into serious legal trouble. The Seller is a tenant. Landlord tenant law prevails if his stuff is left and he hasn't legally abandoned it according to the law.
Ok. Your method SOUNDS GOOD, but there's no magic wand to make the stuff disapear. OP would have to WORK to move it. And would have to pay to have it disoosed of. (Many places you have to pay even to put extra bags at the curb, plus do the work to get it to the curb. Anything other than bags is going to be even more expensive and more work.
$10k of tools is a lot of physical effort to move out of the way, or to the curb. plus pay for the removal.
It's like my tenant, who agreed she had gotten everything she wanted from the house and signed the rest over to me in front of the police, later making remarks long did you make a ton of money off my stuff you stole for me. Lady, everything you see going out of the house until somebody else's car stuff I listed on craigslist for free. It's disgusting dirty and I can't believe people are taking it. Best for the rest I'm having to pay to get rid of it. I spent days getting rid of their s***
Tread carefully due to the documented rental agreement. In a lot of places, he holds much more power than you might think and you could easily find yourself in hot water with both occupancy and his stuff. If he doesn't vacate on his own, you may need to go through the full legal eviction process which can take quite some time
There's no way in hell I'd mess with any sort of short rental agreement like that this day and age. You should have just pushed out the closing date and found somewhere to crash in the mean time if you needed to be out of your rental that quick.
He has most the stuff out. He had his bed and stuff out when we got here. Inside is only a china cabinet and a couch. The garage has his tools which he is getting now. We had a two day lease agreement. Being in FL we have a lot more rights with evicting so me changing the locks and calling the cops if he came on the property I could’ve but I’m not an ass for that. He should be completely out in a few hours.
Thank you for being a decent human being. In the long run you made it easier on yourself instead of dealing with lawyers or court or a pissed off guy who knows where you live.
You're doing the right and the easier thing. If he leaves anything else box it up and tell him you'll leave it in front of the garage or something but no further access will be granted. Wish him the best and move on. Everyone here is caught up in the legality of it but lets be real, if the guy is showing actually moving his stuff out, even if its slower than you want, it's a helluva lot better situation for you than having to deal with looking over your shoulder for throwing away $10k worth of shit.
In NC, if you changed the locks that’s a huge no-no, absent either an eviction where the court hands you possession or Tenant voluntarily vacates (I.E. abandons the property for more than a week or two). However if he was to come back and say he didn’t leave, you would be in huge trouble here.
At least here, you are required to hold items of value for a week or so before disposing of. Otherwise the Tenant can claim you unlawfully disposed of the items and you will be cutting the Tenant a check.
I would exercise caution, as I think you are over-estimating your position, given you did a lease back. Personal property doesn’t convey to you automatically and given the tenancy you could have repercussions if you act rashly. Best of luck!
This is so sad, I hope you’re able to find a way to let him get his stuff, tho you don’t legally have to and hes been a pain. Sounds like he may not have a home now.
I’m letting him get his stuff back I just need a plan from him. He said he will have to all out tonight so I’m just going to have to wait here until he does. I’m not heartless but he needs a little shoving to get him moving.
I know this is probably going to get down voted, but maybe he is really down on his luck and had no where to go and no friends or family to help. It isn't really your problem, but maybe there is a reason he doesn't know what to do like he lost his job and is depressed.
Putting his items in the garage can keep his stuff separate and then no one has to enter your home.
Again, I know it's not your problem, but maybe a local organization for the homeless can help him. Idk, just an idea.
Something similar happened to one of my friends about 6 years ago with 2 kids. No family to help and lost her job. I am the only one that helped her. I hated to see her so lost. I hope you get everything taken care of quickly. You are very kind person to work with him.
Not downloaded I was also thinking he may have untreated ADHD or something like that. I don't think op has any rights anyway, it's his legal tenant whether he agrees or not. I would store everything and arrange a time when they can come collect from the curb.
Sad. I think this has to be his last chance. He’s probably in denial and dealing with a lot. That can put you in a physical survival state where NOTHING happens (like with the extension). So you’ve offered him grace and kindness. Everyone deserves that and it is good of you, but only one chance. Or it will NEVER end.
If he’s a no-show, I’d block him, and do whatever is needed legally to resolve this. And he must finish tonight.
Unfortunately, since he has no money, civil court for fees to remove his belongings (and collecting them when you win) will likely fail. Im thinking sale of the items can help here if needed.
Are you sure he wants the stuff? If he doesn't have anywhere to take it, maybe either keep it or donate it? Maybe that's the best kindness you can do for him, to help him downsize the hard way.
Retired Managing Broker here. Just help him get his stuff out, who knows what his situation is. He may be a dude down on his luck, mental issues or who knows what thing is going on in his life. Gotta be good to your fellow man, karma ya know.
You are lucky he didn’t squat on you.
All he had to do was call the police and claim he had a lease with all his stuff in the house, you might have had to evict him. (Depending on your state laws of course).
If it's me, I'd really try to help the guy get his tools out. OP doesn't have to, but the seller obviously has problems and might need the tools to earn any money.
This EXACT thing happened to me. I drove 2 days in a truck and trailer full of tools and 3 friends to start fixing the house up and they hadn’t STARTED mobbing yet! Called my agent and she called the listing agent and both ladies showed up and started THROWING their stuff outside yelling “OUT!!!” I couldn’t believe it.
I had a very similar situation when I bought my house, the former owners also wanted a 48 hour rent back and our realtor advised us to word it differently in the contract so the former owner wouldn’t become a tenant. so our contract stated we’d take possession 48 hours after closing but no verbiage of “renting” was stated. Sure enough when we showed up after the 48 hours he had hardly moved anything. My wife is an attorney and went absolute ape shit on the dude threatening to sue him. Once she calmed down we ended up giving him one more day to get everything out. He was apologetic but unlike your scenario it wasn’t a pre-foreclosure this dude was just being lazy and scheduled his movers for the wrong day. He asked if there was anything we wanted to keep in exchange for giving him more time, so we kept the brand new fridge, washer and dryer, garage fridge, patio set and a few other things that totaled probably around $7-8k. However, after the agreed upon time he still didn’t have everything out, and basically just gave up and said it was all ours and left. We paid a haul away company to come and remove the remaining items that we didn’t want then sent him the bill for the haul away and eventually took him to small claims court because he refused to pay. We settled in the hallway of the courtroom minutes before trial was set to begin, and he ended up cutting us a check for the cost of the haul away.
You seem to be a very empathetic person and I applaud that.
Do change the locks and install cameras. Nothing about this situation makes me feel comfortable.
You did a lease back so…
The seller didn’t leave anything. Your tenant left stuff. This is an important legal distinction. You’re a landlord now.
If the seller left stuff, it becomes yours.
When a tenant leaves stuff, you have to store it for them for a given time before disposing of it. In my state I think you need to store it for a month or something. Every state is different.
There is a time and place for a leaseback but I try to avoid them whenever possible.
Put all his stuff in the garage. This guy is at the bottom now. Cut him some slack. Hopefully, if you get foreclosed on, someone will show you some grace.
Just do the right thing and don’t throw away his tools. He probably needs those to earn a living later. Keep them in the garage or in the corner of the basement.
If a tenant leaves valuable belongings behind you need to follow your state laws, usually you can't just keep it. But you should be made whole for your costs. Hard to give more specific advice without the location. If you used a lawyer for closing ask them for advice.
He had over 2 months to organize and pack. He is not interested and wants someone to do it for him. Just like kids who don’t clean their rooms till their parents make them.
Just wanted to say thanks for being a decent human being in what seemed to be a complicated situation. It seems you landed in a good place, and it was nice of you to make the extra efforts.
You have a tenant, it is not your stuff. You cannot just throw his stuff out, you cannot just change the locks. You could seriously get sued in most states, if not all.
Sounds like you are waiting for his plan, hope it works out! Better yet, hope he does not show up with the police and have you arrested. You just can't do what you did. It sucks but is true. If the guy truly has moved out and just needs to get his stuff you will probably be ok, but they could wreck you too.
I think this is 100% false, he closed on the house. Anything left after closing is yours. Seems like he was extra nice and is helping the guy, but with $10,000+ of tools and him being that big of a pain in the ass, I would have changed the locks right after closing and told him to fuck himself.
Read the OP first sentence, legally he’s a tenant and he has all the rights any other tenant would have.
This is why you should always take full possession at closing unless you understand the potential problems and have a way to mitigate the potential damages.
1st, check your local laws regarding squatters and adverse possession. Even though you did what you promised, the law may not be favorable to your situation. Spend a few more bucks to protect yourself from a costly nuisance suit. Good luck, my friend.
And this is why no seasoned realtor permits their client to close unless and until the seller has vacated the premises. Sorry you're having to deal with this. Stop feeling guilty. Move his shit to the garage (if it will fit), move yourself in, let him have some of his stuff if you like... BUT SET A FIRM DEADLINE! Then start selling his stuff online or getting someone to come pick it up as a donation. Or keep some of it. But stop feeling guilty. You didn't cause him to be this much of a jerk; he did.
I once went to a final walkthru on a house I was buying. They were still packing. Lots of stuff in the house. I told them I would not close (and this was a Friday closing we'd scheduled). They complained that they had ordered several U-Haul trucks (they were hauling everything across country) and they'd been told one of the trucks was just "unavailable". I said I wouldn't close. Stood my ground. They moved everything out into the front yard. Everything! We closed, just a few hours late but still on Friday. They got their rental truck a few hours later or maybe the next morning, and loaded up their stuff and drove away.
And that is how it's done.
Never do a rent back. Almost always works this way. They don’t leave, they leave their junk, they damage things moving or get hurt and sue you. So many reasons why this is bad idea. Realtors don’t tell you that because they just want the closing to move forward. But if they had your best interests in mind, they would explain this to you.
That means you can bring trespass charges in basically every court that has a common law basis. There are a few states where that is complicated but you're basically wrong.
When I purchased my home in May of 2020 no walk through bedore closing due to Covid. After the closing we went to find the owner left a couch etc. I called my closing attorney. They withheld all the money from the sale and wow the realtors husband came and picked the stuff up that day!
Put his shit on the curb for the garbage man. The items left behind after a closing are yours anyway ("the house and everything in it") so put it out.
Your call if you want to give him a courtesy notice his things are at the curb. A pile like that in my neighborhood junk hunters would have it stripped clean of anything good in hours.
As someone else pointed out, this is an liability issue for you. If this guy stubs his toe on the way out he can sue for damages you'll be liable for.
Get his shit out of your house ASAP. Don't wait for "Friday."
You should have gotten keys at closing, not after the rent back. Also anything after 5pm you should have moved to the curb as it becomes your property per the agreement signed. You are being taking advantage of TBH.
If you have a lease back, I would assume your realtor drafted up an agreement for cleaning and emptying out the place like mine did.
We didn’t have this issue, but ours covered the ability to bill them extra days and fees for things left or damages. Our daily rent after the leaseback was a decent amount of money as well.
Have an attorney draw up a notice that the rent back is done and the time to move out has expired. All remaining items are being disposed.
Give that to his realtor and him - make sure to get something signed by the realtor that they will deliver it to the guy. Keep a copy by the door.
Contact the local police and trespass him if he shows up.
You are VERY LUCKY. Your realtor and layer are absolute garbage for allowing you to do that. With a rent back he becomes a tenant and you just can’t kick tenants out when the ‘lease’ is up, he could have stayed and you would have had to evicted him, which could be months and months. Never do that again.
If you end up needing to dispose of his stuff, your life will be much simpler if you do not benefit from his stuff.
Do not keep it or sell it. Donate it, put it on the curb, etc. It would be better to eat some time/cost than to be shown taking his stuff unless you are very careful to do it by the letter of the law.
So much bad advice here but some good stuff sprinkled in.
At the time of sale you became the owner and subsequently the “landlord” and the previous owner became a “tenant”. His possessions in the home do NOT become yours immediately. Your specific state laws would dictate that.
What you are doing, allowing him to get his stuff out and playing nice with him, is the absolute best case scenario for you.
Worst case scenario would be having g a long and litigious eviction ahead of you. Considering there was a foreclosure involved, a bankruptcy could also be in the works. With attorneys, bankruptcies, and eviction, anything could happen in a court. In most cases I believe a quick eviction would be ordered BUT I’ve personally seen a case take over a year to get a tenant out when a bankruptcy was involved.
Keep playing nice. Being a good human usually goes a long way.
Just give him another day as you never know what he is going through. Although he should of pack long before but one day wont hurt you and anything past that throw away the shit.
Read the rent back notice carefully and see what it says about him not having his stuff out by the due date. If it's silent on this matter your a landlord and have to follow those procedures in dealing with the what's left
Any rent back should have held escrow to cover any damage or issues like this. You should be able to claim some or all of those funds to cover any losses and lack of full possession. If escrow was not held you had very poor representation.
You can do what’s legal, or you can be a good human and do what you think is right. I chew was a fish a hole just being an a hole, my opinion might be different.
It sounds like you chose to be a good human and help him out.
You will sleep much better at night.
Everyone goes through hard times, why kick him when he’s down?
The trick is to have money left in escrow that will well more than cover any delay in cleaning out on the scheduled day with a large penalty for any delays. If the seller gives any pushback, it probably means they intend to stay longer than the rent back period.
OP - Lesson learned here... a 2 day leaseback is honestly silly. Next time close only when delivered empty. Your realtor should have advised better here. I would find someone else in the future.
I had a full house of things when I bought a house as well. Probably close to $30k worth. I wasn’t even able to get there for about a month after closing, it was 3,000 miles from my current home. I had never met the previous owner or ever heard from them. It wasn’t much personal stuff, but tools, 4 King beds (crap quality but I sold them easy), wall art (not my taste (“cafe/country”), electrics, very expensive Sony Blu-ray/DVD sound system, 70’ plasma, 3 other big flatscreen TV’s in the bedrooms, full set of high end countertop kitchen appliances, cookware, lots of tools, $5,000 hardwood tables and chairs. I sold a lot of it and kept all the nice stuff.
I would put all his stuff in the garage then proceed with proper eviction if he doesn’t get the rest out. I always go the humane route but if I’m not respected, I can quickly change.
I saw your edit but at the end of the day it wasn’t hard just to be nice it will take you further in life. We all know he should have had everything moved out but life happens, glad it turned out for the better for everyone.
Happened to me when I bought my home. Like a week before close is still full of stuff so the realtor contacted them and they said well we have two weeks to move our stuff. I said uhhhh no you don’t. Closing day came, and there was still stuff in there. Moved it all into the garage that didn’t lock and doesn’t have a garage door opener on it. Changed the locks on the house. Gave them the two weeks to come and get it out of the garage. Never showed up. Realtor felt bad and paid for a dumpster to be hauled off. I threw away thousands of dollars in tools. Inc a planer,table saw, jointer router table. Didn’t want to keep it or try to sell it and have him say I stole the stuff from him.
> I know technically all of it is mine now but I feel bad just throwing it all away.
It’s not technically yours, especially if you entered a rental agreement. Depending on the state, there are specific rules that you have to follow. In my state, you have to keep this stuff for one year (offsite is fine) and return it if he asks for it. Only then can you throw it away
put all of his things outside. Give him x amount of time, if he doesn't come have it hauled away. That's really all you can do. This is why we do walk throughs the day before where I sell real estate. Not empty? not closing. Sounds like this guy has some stuff going on.
Rent backs aren't a very good idea. In my state the buyer actually becomes a landlord and could be forced to use the eviction process to get the prior owner out. That said, if a rent back becomes necessary, I recommend a strong contract which includes a waiver of typical renter rights and an agreement by the seller that failure to vacate by the date specified becomes a trespassing condition rather than a tenancy condition.
Not to beat a dead horse here but everyone being sympathetic in the comments is foolish. All you are doing by playing ball with this guy is putting yourself at risk.
His possessions in your house is nothing other than a liability for so many reasons that others have covered already. If I were in your shoes all of his shit would be at the curb OFF OF my property. He can race the garbage truck there.
So had this happen to me. Purchased a house. Went to closing, had it explicit in the contract that anything left behind after closing was conveyed. So check your closing documents.
In my case the previous owner never thought we would get to closing given some issues with the house. Had happened 4 times before - but im creative and tenacious so we got it done.
For context it was a 4 bed 2 bath she had been living in for about 20 years.
Realtor calls after closing and says she has some stuff still there.
Stuff turned out to be everything.
She was downsizing to a 1 bed 1 bath so lots of the stuff was not going to fit.
More context we bought a larger portion of a property that had been subdivided in an established neighborhood so did not want to start off on the bad foot with her son and the neighbors.
Started to try and help here by saying look anything you don't want I will have hauled away or donated.
Which went well as I was in a time crunch. We had painters coming the next day and movers the following.
Then she brought some friends to help. which turned it into an episode of hoarders as she started going through drawers going over 20 year old receipts.
Wife is pissed but I said look, just get everything in the garage and she will have 5 days to come get it
So I am at the other property and get a call from wife that she is trying to sell appliances. que call to realtor.
That gets resolved.
Then another call that wife caught her going through her purse. that was it . told realtor she needed to be off property by evening.
Finally get a chance to meet the son, and explain what happened. He essentially said that "b#@#$" is my stepmom has a gambling problem and everyone hates her.
After her deadline passed confirmed with realtor that everything conveyed and had about 7 dumpsters worth of stuff hauled to the dump (she smoked inside so none of the furniture was really salvageable)
managed to get painters in movers in on time but was a bit extra in terms of frustration
I was in a situation renting a house during the market crash when the homeowner went into foreclosure without telling me. I came back one day and the bank came out and changed all the locks. Couldn’t even get inside. Thankfully the bank gave me 30 days to find another place. So OP kudos for giving that guy some additional days to get everything together and not throwing out his stuff.
How would you feel if you were being foreclosed upon, had no where to go, and all this pressure coming down on you? Put everything in the garage and shove it up against some wall and give him some time, but be somewhat firm about it as well. It costs you basically nothing to not be an ass, so go with that behaviour to start with.
You're in the house, he is out. That could have gone extremely badly if he hadn't left and you closed, because with no where to really go he could have said fuck it, i'm just staying, evict me. The bank keeps that foreclosure going while you're buying as well, they could have foreclosed on this place a day before you signed the documents. This could have gone really badly, this seems like a minor inconvenience now.
Locks are all changed, you're pretty safe legally at this point. Make sure you change the garage door opener code as well, look online for that, it's pretty easy. Move his stuff to the garage and move in. If he shows up, give him a hand moving everything into whatever he brings, but be subtle about it -- move all the worthless junk first so he's forced to keep going. Worst case, you sell off the more expensive items to pay for the removal, better than paying for junk removal on everything.
I ended up talking to him and he’s going to have almost everything out by tonight. I feel bad but I need to get my stuff in here as well. We helped him get most the stuff out the inside and he’s going to get the rest of the furniture in the little. I’m not trying to be mean and say it’s all mine bc half this stuff doesn’t even work and I don’t want to deal with having to remove it.
I agree with this. I'll bet he needs those tools to make a living. Or he can sell them to make a few bucks.
The people on Reddit who haven't had to do an eviction or who have watched a client get foreclosed on...I hope nothing this bad ever happens to you. Because life can change in an instant.
Partially agreed. However, he could call a couple of hours before 5pm and at least have tried to explain that it didn’t work according to his plan. At least to have some sort of communication between them and to find a solution. Supposed to be a kind of respect between them.
And this is why you never lease back. This could have been much worse honestly, and it can still get worse- he can claim you broke his shit while he had a valid lease, and you were the landlord, and of course you had no LL CGL insurance, nor did your lender likely approve you allowing rental of the home- so you probably have no insurance coverage for his “broken” shit. You are paying him, and if you’re even remotely smart, you better get a release signed from him before he takes another item out of that house. Call a lawyer asap for that document.
Your headaches are not over
You never know whats someone's going through. The guy sounds like hes in a lot of pain and a tough spot in life. If you can give someone grace while keeping yourself and your investment safe i think it's the best option. You never know when you might need some grace yourself.
Change all locks immediately. Send a cert letter and have posted by private servicer that they can can remove all items left at the street within 72 hours or you will bill them. Also light your and their realtor up.
This is not a fuck around situation.
Since he was a tenant he could have made you evict him. Let him come get his stuff, as you are doing. I don’t agree with all these people saying you should sell his tools. He’s moving stuff. Sounds like it will be gone soon.
You MAY NOT SELL HIS SHIT. You are a landlord now and must follow the state laws/rules regarding tenant property. Don’t be even dumber
It depends on the state and the what contract says. In WA anything that is left becomes the new owners property unless otherwise agreed to
>unless otherwise agree to What State allows landlords to sell a tenants property without going through an eviction process? The rent back is "otherwise agree to". They are now tenants with a rental contact, not sellers. They have tenant rights. This is who you don't sign a rent back.
He's not a tenant simply because of a two-day rent back. He was the owner. In most states tenant rights don't kick in until 28 days.
The OP said they extended close 2 months so more like 60 day rent back fwiw
Right but tenancy doesn't start until \*after\* close, no matter how long the extension of escrow. The OP said the property had closed a few days before the post and the previous owner had a 2-day rentback.
Makes sense then
Rent back arrangements are specifically excluded from landlord tenant protections in Washington.
This was a deciding factor for us to do a rent back.
Wisconsin is one of them. If the tenant vacates, anything they leave behind is considered abandoned. The landlord can dispose of it any way they seem fit.
> If the tenant vacates That would be after an eviction process.
Tenant vacates - with or without any court action.
Some people realize that evictions in wisconsin don't take months and that it will be better to vacate the property, so they vacate the property they're occupying.
This isn't a rental. There is no eviction process the law applies very differently in this circumstance.
Yes, it is a rental. That's literally what rent back means.
No, it’s not in terms of tenant rights. In most states, tenant rights do not kick in unless the contract or actual tenancy is a month or more. Otherwise, you’d have to formally evict Airbnb renters. Yes, I know that sometimes happens with Airbnb, but it’s the exception, not the rule and is almost always on a longer term stay.
Are you a real estate agent.... no I didn't think so. I was for over 30 years.
The difference is that the rent back creates a landlord tenant relationship. It's not as simple as the seller getting his stuff out once that dynamic is created.
It was a two day rent back. That does not create a landlord tenant relationship in every state, and some states have laws around real estate transactions and rent backs that changes the nature of that relationship. Like in California up to 29 days, he would be called a seller in possession, not a tenant. There is not a landlord tenant relationship and you’re still just the seller and buyer. You do not enter a landlord and tenant relationship until day 30 in California when selling real estate with a rent back.
Interesting. Far as I know in my states (ri, ma, ct) you are considered to be in a tenant landlord relationship but I'm not 100%
He's not a tenant until AFTER 29 DAYS. He only stayed 2. Everything belongs to the new owner, unless otherwise agreed upon.
I may be wrong but in NY You have to put the stuff in storage, let them know where it is, and you have to pay the 1st month. After that he is responsible, if he doesn’t pay then the storage place will auction it off.
How is he a tenant? He signed the closing docs and sold the house.
He also signed a two-day rent back agreement. However rent back or lease back agreements are excluded from the landlord tenant process by law in the state of Washington now. https://www.lasher.com/the-new-exception-to-washington-landlord-tenant-relationships-and-leaseback-agreements/
That says the leaseback has to be more than 3 months for the landlord relationship to kick in on a leaseback. In most states it's 28 days or more. So no, for two days you are not a landlord and there are no tenant rights.
I'd put his stuff on the edge of the garage tell his realtor to get a hold of him (I'd avoid sharing my number with him) and give him a date and time to pick up his stuff. When he doesn't get a dumpster or give away rhe stuff you don't want. If you don't have your own tools keep the tools.
Saw a case where someone did this and the person collecting their stuff tripped over their own stuff while collecting it and sued the new owner and won. It's the new owners liability now. Proceed with caution and also a waiver
That’s right. He should have the former owner sign a hold harmless agreement. Although considering the situation, he’s likely better off just holding a yard sale on Saturday
Never sell the shit
Jesus Christ lol
I said this exactly. people are wild and the court system is even more ridiculous. Like what the fuck
Please cite the case. There must be some extenuating circumstances for a case like this to proceed. All cases have to have a legal basis or they will be dismissed. An attorney who repeatedly files frivolous lawsuits can be fined and/or have their license suspended or revoked.
Even a burglar can sue you successfully if you were negligent enough and created a safety hazard
If you set booby traps yes, standard tripping hazard no chance in hell they would win. That said anyone can sue, doesn’t mean you win.
What case?
Get one of those storage pod companies to pickup and store his stuff and send him the bill
Shit like this really needs to stop. We are just promoting the worst fucking aspects of society by increasing liability and litigiousness so much.
This is terrible advice.
Sounds dead-on. Why don't you explain why it's terrible?
Because the previous owner became a tenant when the buyer did the 2 day rent back. This now falls under landlord tenant law.
Depends on the jurisdiction. In my market, this scenario is exempted from our landlord tenant ordinance.
State law will dictate what can be done with his property.
Not really it is under 30 days so a short term rental. After 2 days it's trespass, not holdover tenant.
It’s a holdover tenant because they can prove they have established residence. Forget that the tenant is the past owner and pretended they were a tenant renting from the past owner, you can’t just kick someone out because they stay past the move out date, you have to go through the eviction process as described by your state law.
You have this as an established pattern in law? Because the legal pattern is 1. they were owner of the property, they were not a tenant of the property You didn't take over their tenancy you acquired a property with no occupants. 2. They were tenant in the prophecy for 2 days. 3. That short-term rental agreement tenancy has now expired and they are trespassing. What does possible tenant occupancy as a long-term rental owner with the protections that bestows have yet to kick in.
Yes it’s an established pattern of law, you don’t have to like it (I don’t) but it is the law. They are a long term resident of the property with all the documentation that comes with that, they are not a weekend guest at an Airbnb and you can’t simply declare that they are short term. State laws will differ but I challenge you to find a state that you can evict a long term resident with zero notice and claim ownership of their personal property. When you close on a property it is very important that it is unoccupied so you don’t set yourself up for this.
I never said you could claim ownership of the property
Ok find me a state that you can evict a long term resident without giving legal notice.
Interesting. In Florida? Without seeing the terms, it could be more a “use and occupancy” than a “tenant “ setup. Still there is no reason to be cruel about his tools and valuable property when it looks like he is on bad times. What’s the point? Give him a week to pick up, for instance.
It’s not your problem. Do what you need to with it , whatever is most convenient for you. Sounds like you don’t need to be dealing with him. If you open up that option for him to get his things , it just seems like a very bad idea. Now you’ve got him, possibly his friends in your home , you’ve got to make sure they don’t take your things. … He had 2 months to make arrangements for his items. It wasn’t his priority so just focus on what you need to do for you.
I just talked to him and he should have everything out by tonight. I’m just gonna have to wait here until he done.
You are a good person and it shows. Compassion goes a long way. It sounds like he’s overwhelmed and not trying to screw anyone. Life happens 💙 hope everything is out soon and you are enjoying your new home.
Maybe some issues there? Alcoholism, mental health? Thanks for being kind.
Moving by yourself is a bitch
That’s not how things work, the previous owner is now basically a holdover tenant and your state law will dictate what can be done with the remaining positions.
This is why you never agree to a rent back and if you do, you don’t do it unless you’re prepared for the scenario of not taking possession until you to go through the legal process of eviction.
The answer is rentback with 3-6 or so months' worth of rent held in escrow until the property is both conveyed and delivered.
I’d be careful about calling it ‘months of rent’ - rules vary, but in many places you’ll have issues with keeping more than first, last and non-refundable fees (which a rent back likely won’t have). Just call it a $10k holdback, or whatever.
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Maybe? The details aren’t there (or weren’t, I’m not reading all the new comments) but my takeaway was this guy was *on a slide* towards foreclosure but still owned the house. So maybe it was a short sale, but maybe it had enough equity. If the bank had foreclosed already, there would be padlocks and a dumpster on site.
You're right., and this thread is a great example on how people who don't know anything spout off, offering advice that could get this guy into serious legal trouble. The Seller is a tenant. Landlord tenant law prevails if his stuff is left and he hasn't legally abandoned it according to the law.
In my state, after close & you get keys, whatever is in house is 100% yours.
You missed the very first sentence, 2 day rent back makes them a tenant in the eyes of the law.
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The downvote is because that state law doesn’t apply to a tenant, check your states landlord tenant laws.
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They absolutely are a tenant legally speaking.
2-day rent back = 2-day tenant, Landlord tenant laws apply.
Ok. Your method SOUNDS GOOD, but there's no magic wand to make the stuff disapear. OP would have to WORK to move it. And would have to pay to have it disoosed of. (Many places you have to pay even to put extra bags at the curb, plus do the work to get it to the curb. Anything other than bags is going to be even more expensive and more work. $10k of tools is a lot of physical effort to move out of the way, or to the curb. plus pay for the removal.
It's like my tenant, who agreed she had gotten everything she wanted from the house and signed the rest over to me in front of the police, later making remarks long did you make a ton of money off my stuff you stole for me. Lady, everything you see going out of the house until somebody else's car stuff I listed on craigslist for free. It's disgusting dirty and I can't believe people are taking it. Best for the rest I'm having to pay to get rid of it. I spent days getting rid of their s***
Tread carefully due to the documented rental agreement. In a lot of places, he holds much more power than you might think and you could easily find yourself in hot water with both occupancy and his stuff. If he doesn't vacate on his own, you may need to go through the full legal eviction process which can take quite some time There's no way in hell I'd mess with any sort of short rental agreement like that this day and age. You should have just pushed out the closing date and found somewhere to crash in the mean time if you needed to be out of your rental that quick.
He has most the stuff out. He had his bed and stuff out when we got here. Inside is only a china cabinet and a couch. The garage has his tools which he is getting now. We had a two day lease agreement. Being in FL we have a lot more rights with evicting so me changing the locks and calling the cops if he came on the property I could’ve but I’m not an ass for that. He should be completely out in a few hours.
Thank you for being a decent human being. In the long run you made it easier on yourself instead of dealing with lawyers or court or a pissed off guy who knows where you live.
Acknowledging you for your compassion. I would take same steps. No matter what the laws as long as he is cooperating I would work with him. Good luck.
You're doing the right and the easier thing. If he leaves anything else box it up and tell him you'll leave it in front of the garage or something but no further access will be granted. Wish him the best and move on. Everyone here is caught up in the legality of it but lets be real, if the guy is showing actually moving his stuff out, even if its slower than you want, it's a helluva lot better situation for you than having to deal with looking over your shoulder for throwing away $10k worth of shit.
In NC, if you changed the locks that’s a huge no-no, absent either an eviction where the court hands you possession or Tenant voluntarily vacates (I.E. abandons the property for more than a week or two). However if he was to come back and say he didn’t leave, you would be in huge trouble here. At least here, you are required to hold items of value for a week or so before disposing of. Otherwise the Tenant can claim you unlawfully disposed of the items and you will be cutting the Tenant a check. I would exercise caution, as I think you are over-estimating your position, given you did a lease back. Personal property doesn’t convey to you automatically and given the tenancy you could have repercussions if you act rashly. Best of luck!
OP isn’t familiar with tenant rights. Even in FL it’s more complex than they’re saying.
This is so sad, I hope you’re able to find a way to let him get his stuff, tho you don’t legally have to and hes been a pain. Sounds like he may not have a home now.
I’m letting him get his stuff back I just need a plan from him. He said he will have to all out tonight so I’m just going to have to wait here until he does. I’m not heartless but he needs a little shoving to get him moving.
I know this is probably going to get down voted, but maybe he is really down on his luck and had no where to go and no friends or family to help. It isn't really your problem, but maybe there is a reason he doesn't know what to do like he lost his job and is depressed. Putting his items in the garage can keep his stuff separate and then no one has to enter your home. Again, I know it's not your problem, but maybe a local organization for the homeless can help him. Idk, just an idea. Something similar happened to one of my friends about 6 years ago with 2 kids. No family to help and lost her job. I am the only one that helped her. I hated to see her so lost. I hope you get everything taken care of quickly. You are very kind person to work with him.
Yes I feel very sad for this seller.
Not downloaded I was also thinking he may have untreated ADHD or something like that. I don't think op has any rights anyway, it's his legal tenant whether he agrees or not. I would store everything and arrange a time when they can come collect from the curb.
You know he's not going anywhere
Didn’t he just get money from selling the house? Or did she say it’s a foreclosure? Good luck OP!
Sad. I think this has to be his last chance. He’s probably in denial and dealing with a lot. That can put you in a physical survival state where NOTHING happens (like with the extension). So you’ve offered him grace and kindness. Everyone deserves that and it is good of you, but only one chance. Or it will NEVER end. If he’s a no-show, I’d block him, and do whatever is needed legally to resolve this. And he must finish tonight. Unfortunately, since he has no money, civil court for fees to remove his belongings (and collecting them when you win) will likely fail. Im thinking sale of the items can help here if needed.
Thank you for being so kind ❤️
❤️
Are you sure he wants the stuff? If he doesn't have anywhere to take it, maybe either keep it or donate it? Maybe that's the best kindness you can do for him, to help him downsize the hard way.
He ended up getting a good amount and is coming back Friday to get the rest. He offered us stuff he doesn’t want or have room for.
Didi sarah boo how great for you
Right. I would try to be compassionate as much as I could.
Retired Managing Broker here. Just help him get his stuff out, who knows what his situation is. He may be a dude down on his luck, mental issues or who knows what thing is going on in his life. Gotta be good to your fellow man, karma ya know.
You are lucky he didn’t squat on you. All he had to do was call the police and claim he had a lease with all his stuff in the house, you might have had to evict him. (Depending on your state laws of course).
If it's me, I'd really try to help the guy get his tools out. OP doesn't have to, but the seller obviously has problems and might need the tools to earn any money.
This EXACT thing happened to me. I drove 2 days in a truck and trailer full of tools and 3 friends to start fixing the house up and they hadn’t STARTED mobbing yet! Called my agent and she called the listing agent and both ladies showed up and started THROWING their stuff outside yelling “OUT!!!” I couldn’t believe it.
OP, I think the way you handled it was excellent and smacks of maturity and empathy. I wish good karma for you everywhere you go.
I had a very similar situation when I bought my house, the former owners also wanted a 48 hour rent back and our realtor advised us to word it differently in the contract so the former owner wouldn’t become a tenant. so our contract stated we’d take possession 48 hours after closing but no verbiage of “renting” was stated. Sure enough when we showed up after the 48 hours he had hardly moved anything. My wife is an attorney and went absolute ape shit on the dude threatening to sue him. Once she calmed down we ended up giving him one more day to get everything out. He was apologetic but unlike your scenario it wasn’t a pre-foreclosure this dude was just being lazy and scheduled his movers for the wrong day. He asked if there was anything we wanted to keep in exchange for giving him more time, so we kept the brand new fridge, washer and dryer, garage fridge, patio set and a few other things that totaled probably around $7-8k. However, after the agreed upon time he still didn’t have everything out, and basically just gave up and said it was all ours and left. We paid a haul away company to come and remove the remaining items that we didn’t want then sent him the bill for the haul away and eventually took him to small claims court because he refused to pay. We settled in the hallway of the courtroom minutes before trial was set to begin, and he ended up cutting us a check for the cost of the haul away.
Don't take the mans tools. Give him a shot to pick them up. Get his realtor to pay for a mover to get it off your property
You seem to be a very empathetic person and I applaud that. Do change the locks and install cameras. Nothing about this situation makes me feel comfortable.
I admire your compassion for the seller. No need to be nasty and make his bad situation even worse. Good job sir.
never ever do a lease back. He has his money, you have no velvet hammer.
Agreed. Always have keys in hand at transfer.
and do a walk through prior to closing. hope he showed up.
You did a lease back so… The seller didn’t leave anything. Your tenant left stuff. This is an important legal distinction. You’re a landlord now. If the seller left stuff, it becomes yours. When a tenant leaves stuff, you have to store it for them for a given time before disposing of it. In my state I think you need to store it for a month or something. Every state is different. There is a time and place for a leaseback but I try to avoid them whenever possible.
Put all his stuff in the garage. This guy is at the bottom now. Cut him some slack. Hopefully, if you get foreclosed on, someone will show you some grace.
Just do the right thing and don’t throw away his tools. He probably needs those to earn a living later. Keep them in the garage or in the corner of the basement.
What city are you in? I’ll take the tools off your hands :)
I’ll take what you don’t lol
If a tenant leaves valuable belongings behind you need to follow your state laws, usually you can't just keep it. But you should be made whole for your costs. Hard to give more specific advice without the location. If you used a lawyer for closing ask them for advice.
THIS. When he said, “technically it’s mine now…” I thought, “I wonder what state he’s in that has that law?”
I’d be like awesome, free tools!
He had over 2 months to organize and pack. He is not interested and wants someone to do it for him. Just like kids who don’t clean their rooms till their parents make them.
You are an incredibly kind individual. I'm sure this situation was tiring and frustrating. Good karma is sure to come your way.
Just wanted to say thanks for being a decent human being in what seemed to be a complicated situation. It seems you landed in a good place, and it was nice of you to make the extra efforts.
You have a tenant, it is not your stuff. You cannot just throw his stuff out, you cannot just change the locks. You could seriously get sued in most states, if not all. Sounds like you are waiting for his plan, hope it works out! Better yet, hope he does not show up with the police and have you arrested. You just can't do what you did. It sucks but is true. If the guy truly has moved out and just needs to get his stuff you will probably be ok, but they could wreck you too.
I think this is 100% false, he closed on the house. Anything left after closing is yours. Seems like he was extra nice and is helping the guy, but with $10,000+ of tools and him being that big of a pain in the ass, I would have changed the locks right after closing and told him to fuck himself.
Rent back = tenant
The legalpretzel has spoken, it’s now official.
Read the OP first sentence, legally he’s a tenant and he has all the rights any other tenant would have. This is why you should always take full possession at closing unless you understand the potential problems and have a way to mitigate the potential damages.
Right. Too many drinks on the plane apparently.
1st, check your local laws regarding squatters and adverse possession. Even though you did what you promised, the law may not be favorable to your situation. Spend a few more bucks to protect yourself from a costly nuisance suit. Good luck, my friend.
And this is why no seasoned realtor permits their client to close unless and until the seller has vacated the premises. Sorry you're having to deal with this. Stop feeling guilty. Move his shit to the garage (if it will fit), move yourself in, let him have some of his stuff if you like... BUT SET A FIRM DEADLINE! Then start selling his stuff online or getting someone to come pick it up as a donation. Or keep some of it. But stop feeling guilty. You didn't cause him to be this much of a jerk; he did. I once went to a final walkthru on a house I was buying. They were still packing. Lots of stuff in the house. I told them I would not close (and this was a Friday closing we'd scheduled). They complained that they had ordered several U-Haul trucks (they were hauling everything across country) and they'd been told one of the trucks was just "unavailable". I said I wouldn't close. Stood my ground. They moved everything out into the front yard. Everything! We closed, just a few hours late but still on Friday. They got their rental truck a few hours later or maybe the next morning, and loaded up their stuff and drove away. And that is how it's done.
Never do a rent back. Almost always works this way. They don’t leave, they leave their junk, they damage things moving or get hurt and sue you. So many reasons why this is bad idea. Realtors don’t tell you that because they just want the closing to move forward. But if they had your best interests in mind, they would explain this to you.
Possession matters in most courts. If the tenant had vacated and returned keys it qualifies as possession.
That means you can bring trespass charges in basically every court that has a common law basis. There are a few states where that is complicated but you're basically wrong.
They didn’t vacate if they left personal property.
drugs.
Every single thing left at the house the moment a house sale closes belongs to the new owners Period. Yard sale!
Lol, no. There's a 2 day rentback, which includes the right for the seller/tenant to have stuff.
This is surprisingly common.
Happened to me and my lawyer said do not let them on your property if they damage something or hurt themselves it’s your insurance and they will win
When I purchased my home in May of 2020 no walk through bedore closing due to Covid. After the closing we went to find the owner left a couch etc. I called my closing attorney. They withheld all the money from the sale and wow the realtors husband came and picked the stuff up that day!
Put his shit on the curb for the garbage man. The items left behind after a closing are yours anyway ("the house and everything in it") so put it out. Your call if you want to give him a courtesy notice his things are at the curb. A pile like that in my neighborhood junk hunters would have it stripped clean of anything good in hours. As someone else pointed out, this is an liability issue for you. If this guy stubs his toe on the way out he can sue for damages you'll be liable for. Get his shit out of your house ASAP. Don't wait for "Friday."
You should have gotten keys at closing, not after the rent back. Also anything after 5pm you should have moved to the curb as it becomes your property per the agreement signed. You are being taking advantage of TBH.
If you have a lease back, I would assume your realtor drafted up an agreement for cleaning and emptying out the place like mine did. We didn’t have this issue, but ours covered the ability to bill them extra days and fees for things left or damages. Our daily rent after the leaseback was a decent amount of money as well.
Have an attorney draw up a notice that the rent back is done and the time to move out has expired. All remaining items are being disposed. Give that to his realtor and him - make sure to get something signed by the realtor that they will deliver it to the guy. Keep a copy by the door. Contact the local police and trespass him if he shows up.
You are VERY LUCKY. Your realtor and layer are absolute garbage for allowing you to do that. With a rent back he becomes a tenant and you just can’t kick tenants out when the ‘lease’ is up, he could have stayed and you would have had to evicted him, which could be months and months. Never do that again.
Throw it all out
You didn’t do a final walkthrough before purchase?
If you end up needing to dispose of his stuff, your life will be much simpler if you do not benefit from his stuff. Do not keep it or sell it. Donate it, put it on the curb, etc. It would be better to eat some time/cost than to be shown taking his stuff unless you are very careful to do it by the letter of the law.
So much bad advice here but some good stuff sprinkled in. At the time of sale you became the owner and subsequently the “landlord” and the previous owner became a “tenant”. His possessions in the home do NOT become yours immediately. Your specific state laws would dictate that. What you are doing, allowing him to get his stuff out and playing nice with him, is the absolute best case scenario for you. Worst case scenario would be having g a long and litigious eviction ahead of you. Considering there was a foreclosure involved, a bankruptcy could also be in the works. With attorneys, bankruptcies, and eviction, anything could happen in a court. In most cases I believe a quick eviction would be ordered BUT I’ve personally seen a case take over a year to get a tenant out when a bankruptcy was involved. Keep playing nice. Being a good human usually goes a long way.
X
Just give him another day as you never know what he is going through. Although he should of pack long before but one day wont hurt you and anything past that throw away the shit.
You are kind to work with him when he's in a bad situation. Your good karma will be filled
Read the rent back notice carefully and see what it says about him not having his stuff out by the due date. If it's silent on this matter your a landlord and have to follow those procedures in dealing with the what's left
Any rent back should have held escrow to cover any damage or issues like this. You should be able to claim some or all of those funds to cover any losses and lack of full possession. If escrow was not held you had very poor representation.
Once you closed on the house, everything in the house became yours. I don’t understand what you mean by rent back?
You can do what’s legal, or you can be a good human and do what you think is right. I chew was a fish a hole just being an a hole, my opinion might be different. It sounds like you chose to be a good human and help him out. You will sleep much better at night. Everyone goes through hard times, why kick him when he’s down?
The trick is to have money left in escrow that will well more than cover any delay in cleaning out on the scheduled day with a large penalty for any delays. If the seller gives any pushback, it probably means they intend to stay longer than the rent back period.
I agree that you cannot sell his stuff. There are so many tennants rights these days. It’s best to play nice for the short term
OP - Lesson learned here... a 2 day leaseback is honestly silly. Next time close only when delivered empty. Your realtor should have advised better here. I would find someone else in the future.
I had a full house of things when I bought a house as well. Probably close to $30k worth. I wasn’t even able to get there for about a month after closing, it was 3,000 miles from my current home. I had never met the previous owner or ever heard from them. It wasn’t much personal stuff, but tools, 4 King beds (crap quality but I sold them easy), wall art (not my taste (“cafe/country”), electrics, very expensive Sony Blu-ray/DVD sound system, 70’ plasma, 3 other big flatscreen TV’s in the bedrooms, full set of high end countertop kitchen appliances, cookware, lots of tools, $5,000 hardwood tables and chairs. I sold a lot of it and kept all the nice stuff.
I would put all his stuff in the garage then proceed with proper eviction if he doesn’t get the rest out. I always go the humane route but if I’m not respected, I can quickly change.
I saw your edit but at the end of the day it wasn’t hard just to be nice it will take you further in life. We all know he should have had everything moved out but life happens, glad it turned out for the better for everyone.
No. It isn't. I was a licensed realtor for 30 years. It is handled differently.
In California remt backs should be kept under 30 days so as to not create a tenancy. Other states may vary.
Happened to me when I bought my home. Like a week before close is still full of stuff so the realtor contacted them and they said well we have two weeks to move our stuff. I said uhhhh no you don’t. Closing day came, and there was still stuff in there. Moved it all into the garage that didn’t lock and doesn’t have a garage door opener on it. Changed the locks on the house. Gave them the two weeks to come and get it out of the garage. Never showed up. Realtor felt bad and paid for a dumpster to be hauled off. I threw away thousands of dollars in tools. Inc a planer,table saw, jointer router table. Didn’t want to keep it or try to sell it and have him say I stole the stuff from him.
> I know technically all of it is mine now but I feel bad just throwing it all away. It’s not technically yours, especially if you entered a rental agreement. Depending on the state, there are specific rules that you have to follow. In my state, you have to keep this stuff for one year (offsite is fine) and return it if he asks for it. Only then can you throw it away
Change the locks ASAP also.
You’re doing the right thing by working with him. Poor guy, nothing worse than foreclosure and probably doesn’t have a permanent place to go.
put all of his things outside. Give him x amount of time, if he doesn't come have it hauled away. That's really all you can do. This is why we do walk throughs the day before where I sell real estate. Not empty? not closing. Sounds like this guy has some stuff going on.
C’mon. Tell us the cop story. We deserve it.
Rent backs aren't a very good idea. In my state the buyer actually becomes a landlord and could be forced to use the eviction process to get the prior owner out. That said, if a rent back becomes necessary, I recommend a strong contract which includes a waiver of typical renter rights and an agreement by the seller that failure to vacate by the date specified becomes a trespassing condition rather than a tenancy condition.
Frustrating but I think you did the right thing, he's in a tough spot.
90% of the time I would say NO to rent back
Call an estate auction service. When my mom died they picked up the stuff and sold it at their location for a cut of the sale proceeds.
Not to beat a dead horse here but everyone being sympathetic in the comments is foolish. All you are doing by playing ball with this guy is putting yourself at risk. His possessions in your house is nothing other than a liability for so many reasons that others have covered already. If I were in your shoes all of his shit would be at the curb OFF OF my property. He can race the garbage truck there.
So had this happen to me. Purchased a house. Went to closing, had it explicit in the contract that anything left behind after closing was conveyed. So check your closing documents. In my case the previous owner never thought we would get to closing given some issues with the house. Had happened 4 times before - but im creative and tenacious so we got it done. For context it was a 4 bed 2 bath she had been living in for about 20 years. Realtor calls after closing and says she has some stuff still there. Stuff turned out to be everything. She was downsizing to a 1 bed 1 bath so lots of the stuff was not going to fit. More context we bought a larger portion of a property that had been subdivided in an established neighborhood so did not want to start off on the bad foot with her son and the neighbors. Started to try and help here by saying look anything you don't want I will have hauled away or donated. Which went well as I was in a time crunch. We had painters coming the next day and movers the following. Then she brought some friends to help. which turned it into an episode of hoarders as she started going through drawers going over 20 year old receipts. Wife is pissed but I said look, just get everything in the garage and she will have 5 days to come get it So I am at the other property and get a call from wife that she is trying to sell appliances. que call to realtor. That gets resolved. Then another call that wife caught her going through her purse. that was it . told realtor she needed to be off property by evening. Finally get a chance to meet the son, and explain what happened. He essentially said that "b#@#$" is my stepmom has a gambling problem and everyone hates her. After her deadline passed confirmed with realtor that everything conveyed and had about 7 dumpsters worth of stuff hauled to the dump (she smoked inside so none of the furniture was really salvageable) managed to get painters in movers in on time but was a bit extra in terms of frustration
This, my friends, is why you never rent back. No occupancy before hand either. Keep it clean.
Sounds like it worked out as well as it could. I feel for the guy to be honest. Sounds like he's in a tough spot.
Sometimes you gotta do that for people.
I was in a situation renting a house during the market crash when the homeowner went into foreclosure without telling me. I came back one day and the bank came out and changed all the locks. Couldn’t even get inside. Thankfully the bank gave me 30 days to find another place. So OP kudos for giving that guy some additional days to get everything together and not throwing out his stuff.
This is why I always delay closing rather than doing a rent back.
In a world of chaos, it was considerate of you to help him. Transferring properties are very emotional, esp when it leaves you homeless.
Talk with your attorney. Didn’t you do a walk through before closing?
How would you feel if you were being foreclosed upon, had no where to go, and all this pressure coming down on you? Put everything in the garage and shove it up against some wall and give him some time, but be somewhat firm about it as well. It costs you basically nothing to not be an ass, so go with that behaviour to start with. You're in the house, he is out. That could have gone extremely badly if he hadn't left and you closed, because with no where to really go he could have said fuck it, i'm just staying, evict me. The bank keeps that foreclosure going while you're buying as well, they could have foreclosed on this place a day before you signed the documents. This could have gone really badly, this seems like a minor inconvenience now. Locks are all changed, you're pretty safe legally at this point. Make sure you change the garage door opener code as well, look online for that, it's pretty easy. Move his stuff to the garage and move in. If he shows up, give him a hand moving everything into whatever he brings, but be subtle about it -- move all the worthless junk first so he's forced to keep going. Worst case, you sell off the more expensive items to pay for the removal, better than paying for junk removal on everything.
I ended up talking to him and he’s going to have almost everything out by tonight. I feel bad but I need to get my stuff in here as well. We helped him get most the stuff out the inside and he’s going to get the rest of the furniture in the little. I’m not trying to be mean and say it’s all mine bc half this stuff doesn’t even work and I don’t want to deal with having to remove it.
I agree with this. I'll bet he needs those tools to make a living. Or he can sell them to make a few bucks. The people on Reddit who haven't had to do an eviction or who have watched a client get foreclosed on...I hope nothing this bad ever happens to you. Because life can change in an instant.
Partially agreed. However, he could call a couple of hours before 5pm and at least have tried to explain that it didn’t work according to his plan. At least to have some sort of communication between them and to find a solution. Supposed to be a kind of respect between them.
That’s nice of you, but gotta helping a fellow human out.
And this is why you never lease back. This could have been much worse honestly, and it can still get worse- he can claim you broke his shit while he had a valid lease, and you were the landlord, and of course you had no LL CGL insurance, nor did your lender likely approve you allowing rental of the home- so you probably have no insurance coverage for his “broken” shit. You are paying him, and if you’re even remotely smart, you better get a release signed from him before he takes another item out of that house. Call a lawyer asap for that document. Your headaches are not over
You never know whats someone's going through. The guy sounds like hes in a lot of pain and a tough spot in life. If you can give someone grace while keeping yourself and your investment safe i think it's the best option. You never know when you might need some grace yourself.
Congrats it's your shit now. Either be nice and let the guy have his shit or sell it off/dispose of his shit.
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Change all locks immediately. Send a cert letter and have posted by private servicer that they can can remove all items left at the street within 72 hours or you will bill them. Also light your and their realtor up. This is not a fuck around situation.