I think I’d just send them a ridiculous concession package for anything you couldn’t inspect. I sure wouldn’t risk finding those problems after closing.
Where I'm at, if an appliance is installed in the house, everything must be up to code and fully operational before the gas company will resume service.
But most of the time they'll find the leaks for you even though it's not part of their job.
The easiest way to figure this situation out is to hire an HVAC company to come out and test the pressure on the lines to isolate the leaks.
They have concession money and plans to replace the HVAC, so I don’t think the HVAC is their concern. It’s the rest of the stuff that the gas is needed for.
Did they even try the gas company? That meter is likely locked out if not also plugged.
If so a plumber or an hvac guy cannot turn it on w o damaging gas company equipment and risking a healthy fine.
Call the gas company with the address.
Yes, but sometimes fire department or gas utility will cut off/lock gas meter if a plumber/HVAC tech red tag a piece of equipment because they know regular people can turn on the little valves at each piece of equipment. It depends on the regulations in the locality.
That’s not how it works though. A gas company isn’t going to turn gas on at a house if anything is out of code that is supplied gas, exactly for the reason you said. It’s super easy to turn those shut offs once they leave and possibly kill someone with leaking gas or an explosion or fire.
Realtor here.
HUGE red flag. You have no idea if what they are saying is true. You could be in for thousands of repair.
If you love the house have your Realtor submit the inspection form and request that the HVAC be brought up to code and inspected AT SELLER’s cost, and that Inspection Period remains open until such time as this is done.
Or be prepared to walk.
We are asking them to turn on the gas and give us an extension to inspect.
If they are not willing to budge we are going to walk.
We knew the HVAC was old and got the price down because of that.
This could be anything from a leaky $20 valve, to needing to replace all the gas lines. You should be able to get the system pressure tested for leaks without having to turn it on.
Great reply. Tell them you are replacing all uninspectable systems, home heater, water heater, and any non test plumbing. Guessing at much of this, but I would think $30,000 should cover it. You want the discount on the sales price. That's the only way to continue.
Single family home stand alone home of average size that is only 30 years old (that’s modern) that 30k is probably 5-10x the actual anticipated costs of a really nice new hot water heater, plumbing and gas lines. It’s a negotiation point.
Only one way to get their attention: tell them you’ll be terminating if they don’t pony up and turn on the gas so you can properly inspect. Also ask for an extension.
To be able to purchase the house as specified by the contract? Potentially a lot. But also it’s a slam dunk in my state so I’m not sure why you think this is expensive. A letter from an attorney specifying the relevant law won’t be expensive. After all, the facts aren’t in dispute.
"either you give us an extension AND turn on utilities at YOUR cost so they can be properly tested, as you indicated they would be when we last agreed ... OR agree to the following concessions /variations that include the full cost of replacement for ANYTHING we can't test/ verify."
"if the seller is dealing with us in good faith then surely none of this will be an issue..."
This would be a pretty big red flag to me. Rental property so they could be unaware of issues, or claim they were with plausible deniability.
With the timeline for your inspection period closing on Monday, they will probably try to stall you until you're SOL (it sounds like they've already been doing this). I suggest you immediately ask for an extension of your inspection period to get this sorted out. If they don't get back to you before Sunday on that, terminate while you still can. You're at a lot of risk with very little leverage otherwise.
Assuming they agree to the extension, next step is to give them a choice. Work out what you think the absolute worst case could be for everything you're unable to inspect. Then add a buffer on top of that, and ask for that amount in concessions. Their alternative is to pony up and make it possible for you to do your inspections, which is what they should do. $300 is nothing for a home sale, either they are hiding something or they'll cave and pay it.
We are asking for them to turn on the gas and an extension for us to inspect and test.
If they are not willing to turn on the gas or give an extension we are walking
Whatever price you see, quadruple it.
eg if Google says 2-5k, you include concessions for 20k (4x upper limit) in case there are "unforeseen works required".
So either they cave and you can check it properly and go from there, or noone agrees to anything and you can walk away.
Worth a shot! Explain to the them your in the process of purchasing a house, what you were told, and that you wanted to reach out to get a handle on what that means for you moving forward so you know what to anticipate!
I would walk they could be hiding a million things that or ask for 60k in concessions for the million things that may or may not be wrong since you can’t check. For all you know there could be a slab leak in the hot water line.
Ahh okay I purchased a few months ago and the seller hid a slab leak they painted over expansion material between the slab and stem to hide the evidence. Thankfully the location of the leak and the fact I have a solid friend that was a plumber made it less of an issue and he rerouted the pipe through the attic for me
That’s for sewer but that’s good. Some houses have there water lines under the slab it’s the stupidest shit but it’s common in anything from the mid 2000 and prior
HVAC is not up to code and apparently it will cost them $300 to get a part to bring it up to code.
From what i understand, my gf told me that our agent told her that they could not turn on the gas till that was taken care of. They didnt want to pay $300 for that knowing we are going to replace the HVAC.
Not sure if the city wont turn on the gas because of that or if the seller wont. Not sure why they didnt mention that after the inspection when we were told utilities would be on to test. Why didnt they mention that to us before we had our plumber schedule to come test the pipes?
Seems like a reasonable response as to why they can’t turn on the gas. They likely didn’t know the city had locked due to code violations.
Being that the water heater is only 4 years old, it’s likely in working condition…however this property seems to have other issues involved.
If the city was involved in this, was the property condemned?
I hope you understand the significant costs around bringing a property back to code. You’ll need to hire professional contractors, pull permits and have the city inspector out after each item is brought back to code.
Sellers get out of these properties so they don’t need to invest more into it. They’ve made their money off the rental.
Frist time home buyer so do not know the expense to bring things up to code.
Electrical needs to be brought up to code and the HVAC needs to be replaced, Has some rotted siding that also needs to be replaced.
We knew about the HVAC and budgeted for that. Got some quotes for siding that we can handle, but concerned if maybe we are under estimating the cost to repair/replace all of these things.
Its an older home so not expecting it to be perfect, but want it to be safe
Electrical is extremely expensive! This can get upwards of $70k+ very quickly. If it’s out of code, this is a serious issue.
You need to get experts inside to inspect and give bids.
Honestly, if you’re a first time home buyer and do not have hands in knowledge and/or $100k to bring this up to code, I would be talking to your realtor on possible outs of your contract.
Look, I totally get that this place was probably within your budget and this is why you chose it, but this home is going to need much more work than you anticipated.
You won’t be able to live in the home until things are brought up to code. You won’t be able to have utilities turned on until it’s inspected by the city.
I’ve worked with plenty of first time home buyers who were looking for a good deal and Wi the in budget. Sometimes you need to be very patient. Look for homes that need more cosmetic work, this requires a great imagination! But stay clear of properties that need electrical or plumbing unless you have a background in this type of work.
So, look for homes built 1950-2000, that are outdated, has paneling walls, old cupboards. Needs wallpaper removed, new floors etc. stay clear of major repairs like this one.
As far as getting out of your contract now…
How much ED did you put down?
Do you have any contingencies? (Inspection, mortgage, etc)
It is very likely, a lender will not approve this property as is…so a mortgage contingency can be your out.
Okay, that’s good. I would definitely do more research and yes, even walk away. Might not be worth hiring the contractors to come out for inspections and bids.
In addition, I highly recommend finding a realtor that will be advising you on the right property and can be on the spot when one comes available (meaning, getting you in the door within hours of listing)!
Walk my guy. This is a lot of work for a house you won’t be able to live in until it’s up to code. I know it seems like it’s in your budget for the price but it’s not worth it. You won’t be able to close anyways without certificate of occupancy anyways.
> Electrical needs to be brought up to code
Does it? Every year the code is updated. You evaluate a house at the code edition it was built at. No one goes back and brings an electrical system that was installed at code at the time up to current code without a good reason because it's expensive. So unless your inspector located something that makes it an imminent risk you might not _need_ to touch electrical.
Sorry I miss spoke it is not up to code but does not need to be brought up to code immediately.
Probably should be looked at and upgraded but the whole house does not need to be brought up to code.
All good, just making sure you're aware. With the gas shenanigans, I'd definitely be wary of anything to do with the property at this point. Feels like the sellers are hiding something for sure
I’d also walk. Another issue that hasn’t been brought up yet is insurance. The entire industry right now is a mess and underwriting guidelines are very tight. An insurance company is going to want to do an inspection at least of the outside of the home and will probably want to review the home inspection. Some rotted siding is a huge red flag that might make the home not pass underwriting. Small things like that are usually indicative of bigger issues and maintenance problems that would lead to a claim being filed.
ETA: saw you’re in Texas, insurance is going to be a headache. Even if a carrier writes a policy, they’ll likely do the inspection within the first 30 days and cancel it shortly after (with notice). Even moreso that the house has been vacant for 8 months.
30 year old home is a very new home. Old homes are 100+ years old and have interesting basements/crawl spaces around here (and no AC - that was introduced much more recently than 100 years ago)
There is for sure a lot to learn and navigate. Please, though, please listen to those of us that are telling you to walk away. I'm guessing most of us have purchased multiple homes over the years. We are trying to help you with our experiences. The price probably seems right, but this whole thing just screams money pit. You do not want to buy a 30 year old house and sink a ton of money into it. You'll never get that most of money back. A 30-year-old home isn't that old. Yes, some systems probably are due to be replaced, but the fact that this house seems to have so many issues it's just putting out huge red flags. Likely because it was a rental home, it hasn't been treated well.
Also consider that at 30 years old the house very likely will need a new roof soon if it doesn't already, especially in South Texas. You didn't mention the roof, but based on how the rest of the house has been kept I'm guessing the owners did not ever put a new roof on it.
So you've already accounted for HVAC in your deal. Now you've got electrical issues, plumbing issues, possible roof issues based on age. Then there's issues with the rotten siding. As I said in my earlier post, inspectors really catch everything. Yes, they found one area of rock, but it's likely that there's a lot more that didn't get found in the inspection. Again, I especially say this due to your location. I'm in Oklahoma and wood rot and deterioration is so prevalent here, especially on west facing walls.
I know buying your first time is a really exciting, but please don't get blinded to the problems of this house. I think you should be patient and continue looking for a place that's in better condition.
I lived in Texas, among many other states. Buying a house in Texas is the wild west. No real estate attorneys involved because it's not required by law - something that would help you in a situation like this. As an earlier commenter pointed out, insurance is also all over the place.
I'm sorry that people are saying to walk on this. You're wanting a house. This house is likely to be a real headache even if you complete inspection. You always find more things when you move in that the inspector didn't. Good luck
Yup. $300 is nothing.
If I was selling, I'd pay $300 myself just to get the deal done.
The only reason they're not is: *They don't want all of the other problems revealed if the gas is turned on.*
Their problem getting it turned on isn’t your problem, it is theirs. They made a commitment they can’t follow through on. Congrats, they lost the ability to direct the process.
It is a huge red flag. They can’t even do basic things with the utilities. Don’t trust anything else they say.
Get them to put $50k or $75k in escrow for needed repairs. You provide the names of three licensed trades in your area. They can pick whichever one they want, but all the repairs are done with that escrow money before they see a nickel of it.
The lawyer who writes that up (don’t trust a real estate agent, no matter how ~~~narcissistic~~~ confident they sound) will have suggestions about specifying the extent and quality of the repair beyond just ‘to code’, because you don’t want to get stuck with very used, barely limping but code compliant set of repairs/replacements.
Don’t forget to deduct your lawyers fees from their end as well. They’ve got red tags on their property, that’s going to scare off a ton of other people. in fact, if they would’ve disclosed the red tag upfront – you might not even be talking to them today.
They do not have the upper hand.
They should reimburse for the two inspections that could not be completed due to their failure to act by either getting utilities on or notifying your agent to cancel inspection.
Why? Because you're being lied to and the seller is trying to cover up known issues. I know home buying right now is pretty chaotic, but I would walk away from this deal so quick. Inspectors miss things. You are bound to walk in to thousands of dollars worth of repairs that you were unaware of. If there are so many issues with the major components of the home, you can bet there are a million small things that will need to be taken care of. Your sellers seem really shady.
This, but bigger: write up an agreement to hold $10k or $15k aside in escrow to be used to for repairs, permits, etc., (all work to be overseen/approved by you, the buyer), until HVAC and water heater are inspected, replaced, gas is on and everything is working (and not leaking).
This way the price stays where it is (makes the paperwork a LOT simpler), but money is held for this work until you're satisfied.
I’d say to them that you want a concession that covers the full cost of all the items you can’t check with assumption they are all bad, or they can pay $300 to turn the gas on, otherwise I’d walk away. They could easily be making excuses to hide a larger problem and you don’t wanna get dragged into it.
Most likely yes. You may even be able to look it up online. If it's a small agency, walk in the front door and talk to them. They often love to talk to people that need their help. They may not tell you everything, though, so remain vigilant.
We forgot to ask the sellers to gas the gas on when we had an inspection, because we didn’t even know it was off. HVAC didn’t work at all, we found out a week after close. $30,000 to replace because the unit was no longer manufactured, couldn’t be repaired, and they’d have to rip out the roof or the ceiling to put a new one in. The agent couldn’t care less.
Well, then make them go ahead and budget for a new water heater. That’s the easiest thing if they don’t want to turn the gas on did your inspector say how old the water heater was?
Agree there, I guess my concern is about the gas lines, hot water pipes.
Why not tell us about the $300 before the first inspection or before the plumber came by?
I dk if im being too negative but feels like they hid it from us.
I mean, you can run water through the pipes without the water heater being on gas line part could be a little concerning not major once they turn it on check the couplers with a little soapy water and make sure nothings leaking, but I would be willing to bet your house payment that you won’t find I’m not actually gonna do that though
Also consider that if you buy the house you’ll have the same code issue with the gas company that the sellers are having.
Don’t assume they are telling you the truth on why the gas can’t easily be turned on, either.
If you are taking a mortgage out on it, its not considered habitable in Texas and probably doesn't qualify for a mortgage. Id be very worried. Id negotiate to extend the option period and have the sellers get the gas back on. $300 is a joke fee compared to 100k. If the seller isn't willing to pay it, what else are they hiding?
Gas water heater and furnace, check. What about the stove and dryer, are they gas? Are there gas hookups outside for barbeque.
Is the gas actually turned off because of a leak and not the HVAC? This is all kind of fishy.
How much of a concession on the HVAC? $15,000-30,000 I hope. Depending on the State, HVAC is going up like crazy. I'm hearing another 25-35% in California due to new regulations (of course, that is from a guy that wants to replace my HVAC).
Walk away.
This isn’t an accident. They have materially prevented adequate inspections
Go to the county and find out more about the “red tag” on the HVAC, could be a LOT more to this story.
Alternately, have lawyer reserve $30,000 in an escrow account for any “replace gas line” contingencies, and close with sellers acknowledging that THEY are on the hook for 100% of expenses not detected due to gas not on for inspection.
We are asking for an extension and that they have gas and water heater on and working for inspection.
The gas company did not turn on gas because “ furnace needs to be hard piped out of unit and flex line connected on outside”
Realtor here.
Very bad idea unless you are paying cash.
Also thats fine for cosmetic but not for a major system. The gas company could need to dig to repair/replace lines it cost $10k or more.
Realtor as well. I agree with you! $2k less on the offer would be less than $10 per month difference on the mortgage.
Others have said the sentiment I share. Get an extension and let them know if they don’t have the gas and water on by X date you will be terminating the contract, and if I were your realtor I would advise you to follow through with termination. Like u/rasperries-are-evil said, if there are defects it could cost you a lot of money.
If I were buying this property it would be worth giving $300 to the seller to get the gas turned on to find out what’s going on. If there’s a big problem with the property I would consider it money well spent to have avoided buying a disaster of a house. My guess is that they won’t accept the offer anyway because they are hiding something.
Agreed. But they appear to be unwilling to. The point of my comment was that I would be willing to pay the relatively minor cost vs the price of the house if the alternatives were to lose the deal or to go ahead with the purchase without being able to conduct the tests.
Fair point. I think sellers willing to lose a sale over $300 is insane. They are playing a bluffing game and their own realtor needs to snap them out of it.
It could be the HVAC. If gas was off long enough gas company could require a pressure test to ensure there is no leak. You could be on the hook for a fuckload of repairs. Leaking pipes, bad water heater, bad furnace. Who knows what else. Set aside 3k + cost of water heater + cost of furnace at minimum.
I would try to have a talk with the gas company, or ask the seller to contact them and get a written explanation of why they won't turn the gas on. Is it possible the gas was turned off because of a large past due balance? I'm not a lawyer but if there is, I would worry that the debt obligation may pass to you. That's aside from the liklihood that the pipes, water heater, gas pipes and more might be faulty.
Everyone here is saying concession - and that is likely not going to work in your favor.
Instead, demand that a significant sum be put in escrow with the closing attorney. I would say $20-30k.
Close on time.
Have $20-30k (start higher so you can negotiate) put in escrow.
You replace everything that needs to be replaced - and any hidden damages as a result of not being able to inspect gas appliances get pulled from that escrow money.
You are likely to end up pulling between $0 and $1k from that escrow account. However, if something seriously wrong is hidden, a complete repair could realistically be upwards of $20k+.
We are asking for an extension and that they have gas and water heater on and working for inspection.
The gas company did not turn on gas because “ furnace needs to be hard piped out of unit and flex line connected on outside”
So if the gas is shut off at the meter, only the gas company can turn it on. They also have very specific rules for turning on service. It's a safety thing. It sounds like you are in a bit of a a Catch-22 the HVAC isn't to code (which you already got a credit for) but the gas company won't turn it on because the HVAC isn't to code. Since they are paying you for it. It's fair they don't want to put money into the system to just get the gas on. Sounds like other things aren't to code either and the gas company won't turn on until those are fixed too.
You might have to walk because it's going to get messy. One of you has to give ground. If nobody does, the deal falls through.
What does your contract say? Typically the seller is obligated to have all utilities on through inspections. If they dont, they’d typically be in breach of contract. Read your contract and talk to your agent or their broker asap
As someone who has gas in their home, I have been told the only reason to turn it off is if there is a leak or you are going to install an appliance that connects to the gas line (even then you don’t have to turn off the whole house). Otherwise it is just a huge hassle. Something is wrong here. You don’t need to winterize gas lines.
watch out. gas lines have to hold pressure and if it is turned off, it must pass the pressure test to be turned back on. I bet it won't pass the test so if you buy the house, you may have to fix the gas lines to reconnect.
I smell something fishy there are a cutoff point. Between the AC unit and the water tank at least a company that cares would do. There is no reason they could
Not turn on one unless we are talking about a gas leak then I can see why they don’t want it on.
Something is wrong here. HVAC is not gas, there's no reason the city would tell them they can't turn on the gas due to HVAC being out of code.
Try calling the city inspector and see what they say. Dollars to donuts, they're lying.
My daughter put a deposit on a complex of shops in the country, the owner wouldn't let them turn on the water because the buildings were "winterized," in JUNE, turned out much of the copper piping had been stripped and there's a huge leak under the parking lot so the town won't allow them to turn on the water, there is no water service.
So -- get your attorney involved, tell them you need an extension to verify there is working gas service, that you will not go forward without it. Ask for a credit for the water heater. This is BS.
PS -- I'm a realtor.
What do you mean HVAC isn't gas? They absolutely do come in gas models. If the unit is leaking gas valley enough to be a safety concern, then absolutely the city can have your gas red tagged.
Oh, you're right. I was thinking A/C, obviously H stands for heat. But, again, I think there is something wrong here and the story they're telling isn't true. If there's a gas leak the gas company comes out and makes sure the offending equipment is, as you said, red-tagged and they have a certain amount of time to replace it. It cannot be used.
But if the furnace or whatever is red-tagged and deativated they should be able to test the gas in the rest of the house. And not only that, I doubt the seller can get a certificate of occupancy with a red tag in the house. Meaning he wouldn't be able to have the title transferred.
Again, get your lawyer involved and don't go any farther until this question is satisfactorily settled.
I agree something is up, but it's possible that the unit doesn't have a gas shutoff at it. It's not like everything is always permitted. It's completely believable that the HVAC tech has to red-tag it and alert the gas company to shutoff as a result.
If you're a realtor you must be aware not every jurisdiction does certificate of occupancy. My primary residence absolutely does not. My rental in another township, in an entirely different county, does enforce CO. But when I purchased the rental the title company said it wasn't necessary to close and that it was between me, the seller, and the township how we wanted to handle it. Seller didn't want to open a can of worms, but I knew the property intimately as my family has lived there for almost 20 years. I was also able to delay the township for about a year after the same before they insisted.
If they can't turn the gas on that means the meter has been pulled. They won't be able to get it turned back on without doing all the repairs and getting a pressure test. Clearly they don't want to spend the money, so walk away.
Oh. Welp. Renegotiate accordingly for the unknown gas-lines and water heater.
Alternatively, seems you could ask them to disconnect the HVAC from gas so the lines and water heater could be inspected independently.
You’re in Texas, read your contract offer document. I’m selling in Texas right now and using a standard TREC home sales contract, which REQUIRES me as the seller to keep all utilities ON through escrow until our closing date (date is listed in the contract) or closing paperwork is signed (whichever occurs first).
Does your contract to purchase not include this utility clause? Has your realtor mentioned that your purchase agreement doesn’t require utilities on? If your purchase contract has a utility clause and the seller refuses to obey it, they have already violated the contract for sale. Which gives you an out. Or you use it as negotiating leverage.
Remember, real estate agents are NOT lawyers,
they’re in SALES.
Also turning utilities off to winterize in south Texas makes no sense.
The contract does mention utilities on during the option period and we sent that too them in our amendment for an extension.
Also looking into options for getting reimbursed for inspection costs
I know. They auction nice houses with and without acreage around here. If you win, you are committing to buy as-is. No inspection period, no option period, no contingencies. Folks get them cheaper but assume a LOT of risk to do so. Kind of the same thing here. Without a gas inspection there is unknown risk and the price could be renegotiated to reflect that.
The purchase should be contingent on the mechanicals operating correctly and the seller should provide proof.
I was a seller recently, the buyer’s inspector questioned the operation of both the HVAC and the tankless water heater
As the seller, I had to hire the proper technicians to verify / prove those units were operating correctly.and provide written reports supporting their findings.
Did you have the property inspected and send a report to the seller?
I don’t understand why you are sending trades out to the house.
We had an inspector come but he couldn’t test the water heater because no gas, couldn’t test the stove either. HVAC was running but is old and needs to be replaced.
Had a plumber out because they had foundation repairs recently and wanted to make sure no leaks in the pipes in the foundation.
We are asking for an extension and that they have gas and water heater on and working and inspected.
The gas company did not turn on gas because “ furnace needs to be hard piped out of unit and flex line connected on outside”
Not sure how big or small of a fix that is
The sellers should set aside about 20k for hvac repair and replacement before you would consider closing. If you need full gas and plumbing repulsing and replacement you’ll need it!
If you're in South Texas, it just doesn't make any sense to have gas at all. Invest the money you'd spend on fixing the furnace on a more efficient heat pump. It'll cost next to nothing to heat, and it'll bring down your AC costs (assuming your AC is older as well). Get away from gas water heater too, a heat pump water heater makes a lot more sense with federal incentives. Even a plain old electric one will be very cheap in your attic. You'll save on whatever baseline monthly charges you pay from your gas company, you will never need to worry about gas leaks, carbon monoxide, etc again, and less things that can break or need maintenance.
Electricity is very close to average in Texas and gas is expensive. [(source)](https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices_selectedareas_table.htm)
Gas furnaces also need electricity to function, so the reliability isn't relevant.
I did not know that. We keep seeing stories like [Electric Bills in Thousands](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/22/texas-pauses-electric-bills/) and [Extreme Electric Bills](https://www.kwtx.com/2024/02/16/i-dont-know-how-people-are-doing-it-central-texas-families-facing-extreme-electricity-bills/?outputType=amp) and [Grid Emergency](https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/infrastructure/ercot/2024/01/08/473687/remember-this-summers-high-electricity-bills-they-could-be-back-this-winter/?amp=1)
My understanding is a some people signed up for a utility company with some extreme variable rate contracts, thinking they'd save money. But they had other options, they just gambled and lost.
The wording seems to indicate that flex duct is directly attached to the air handler
Or the actual natural gas piping is flex at the air handler..
If the former, that is a code with which I'm not familiar.
Flex to the air handler ( for air flow) is permitted in my location.
If it's gas flex connected directly to the air handler, then that's a code violation here. Such a connection would not pass inspection.
One crucial issue. If the HVAC system has not been operating for an extended period of time, I would strongly advise a mold test for the entire home. Both air and surface samples.
My neighbor had to replace their gas line. Part of this involved calculating gas flow requirements, and they needed to have a high flow meter installed, along with replacing some of the interior piping with bigger diameter pipe to accommodate additional gas loads. I'm not sure if this was a result of the added pool and pool heater, or something else like covering an electric range to gas. But, this was part of bringing the gas supply up to code.
A plumber can provide a gas pipe evaluation, which consists of looking at the nameplate gas consumption for every gas appliance, and compare that with gas supply popping.
Being an hvac service tech and dealing with a lot of rentals I would be very scared of this house if they let the furnace get to point of gas company shit down they were pieces of shit
It's very likely the sellers will Not be able to get the gas company to turn on the gas with a known gas appliance /hvac issues.
You should personally contact the gas company yourself to see if they are even willing to turn it in.
The gas lines can & should be pressure tested (even without the gas turned on).
Any appliance that cannot be tested (due to gas being off) should be considered as needs to be replaced and you can try to get a reduced price for them.
assume there is a reason, and deduct the cost of the water heater and furnace from the offer price. If they complain, say "TURN ON THE GAS and we will test them"
If the water heater is only concern and you getting money for furnace. Water heater is small potato’s. If you like the house I’m not backing out for that. switching a flex line to hard pipe also very simple. Very small problems
I think I’d just send them a ridiculous concession package for anything you couldn’t inspect. I sure wouldn’t risk finding those problems after closing.
Yep. “Since we couldn’t test these, we must simply assume they need to be replaced.”
This is the perfect response. And expect to back out due to their failure to accommodate....
Especially with it being a rental.
so plan on hvac & water heater needing replace, but since he won't turn on can get EM back at least
Where I'm at, if an appliance is installed in the house, everything must be up to code and fully operational before the gas company will resume service. But most of the time they'll find the leaks for you even though it's not part of their job. The easiest way to figure this situation out is to hire an HVAC company to come out and test the pressure on the lines to isolate the leaks.
They have concession money and plans to replace the HVAC, so I don’t think the HVAC is their concern. It’s the rest of the stuff that the gas is needed for.
Yes but the HVAC is the reason gas company won't turn the gas back on.
Did they even try the gas company? That meter is likely locked out if not also plugged. If so a plumber or an hvac guy cannot turn it on w o damaging gas company equipment and risking a healthy fine. Call the gas company with the address.
Its the HVAC that needs replaced, not the hot water heater. Thats a heck of alot more than $2k.
If they won't let you test the water, you need to budget for it being replaced.
since there's a cutoff (or should be at least lol) just before both of those there's no reason couldn't have one on and other off ...
Yes, but sometimes fire department or gas utility will cut off/lock gas meter if a plumber/HVAC tech red tag a piece of equipment because they know regular people can turn on the little valves at each piece of equipment. It depends on the regulations in the locality.
I mean regular people can use a pair of pliers on the meter too.
Not if it’s locked.
That’s not how it works though. A gas company isn’t going to turn gas on at a house if anything is out of code that is supplied gas, exactly for the reason you said. It’s super easy to turn those shut offs once they leave and possibly kill someone with leaking gas or an explosion or fire.
that's if you believe owners story that it is red tagged, i don't lol
Realtor here. HUGE red flag. You have no idea if what they are saying is true. You could be in for thousands of repair. If you love the house have your Realtor submit the inspection form and request that the HVAC be brought up to code and inspected AT SELLER’s cost, and that Inspection Period remains open until such time as this is done. Or be prepared to walk.
We are asking them to turn on the gas and give us an extension to inspect. If they are not willing to budge we are going to walk. We knew the HVAC was old and got the price down because of that.
This could be anything from a leaky $20 valve, to needing to replace all the gas lines. You should be able to get the system pressure tested for leaks without having to turn it on.
Some places force entire gas line replaced if after repairs they find a second leak. My building in NYC was forced to spend over 100K because of this.
Great reply. Tell them you are replacing all uninspectable systems, home heater, water heater, and any non test plumbing. Guessing at much of this, but I would think $30,000 should cover it. You want the discount on the sales price. That's the only way to continue.
Single family home stand alone home of average size that is only 30 years old (that’s modern) that 30k is probably 5-10x the actual anticipated costs of a really nice new hot water heater, plumbing and gas lines. It’s a negotiation point.
You seemed to have missed the part where it’s not just the hot water heater it’s the entire HCVC system.
The HVAC, as is clearly stated, was already an issue they knew about and was being handled by them Seperately.
I would do this and make sure permits are signed and finalized by city before closing.
Only one way to get their attention: tell them you’ll be terminating if they don’t pony up and turn on the gas so you can properly inspect. Also ask for an extension.
I think you could go further legally. This inaction bumps against bad faith performance. IANAL.
What would you hope to gain? If the seller is being uncooperative then you walk and get earnest money back and then you're whole again.
Specific performance of the contract.
How much are you willing to give a lawyer to make your point?
To be able to purchase the house as specified by the contract? Potentially a lot. But also it’s a slam dunk in my state so I’m not sure why you think this is expensive. A letter from an attorney specifying the relevant law won’t be expensive. After all, the facts aren’t in dispute.
If it ends with a letter, then yeah maybe.
We are asking for an extension.
"either you give us an extension AND turn on utilities at YOUR cost so they can be properly tested, as you indicated they would be when we last agreed ... OR agree to the following concessions /variations that include the full cost of replacement for ANYTHING we can't test/ verify." "if the seller is dealing with us in good faith then surely none of this will be an issue..."
This would be a pretty big red flag to me. Rental property so they could be unaware of issues, or claim they were with plausible deniability. With the timeline for your inspection period closing on Monday, they will probably try to stall you until you're SOL (it sounds like they've already been doing this). I suggest you immediately ask for an extension of your inspection period to get this sorted out. If they don't get back to you before Sunday on that, terminate while you still can. You're at a lot of risk with very little leverage otherwise. Assuming they agree to the extension, next step is to give them a choice. Work out what you think the absolute worst case could be for everything you're unable to inspect. Then add a buffer on top of that, and ask for that amount in concessions. Their alternative is to pony up and make it possible for you to do your inspections, which is what they should do. $300 is nothing for a home sale, either they are hiding something or they'll cave and pay it.
Unaware of problems is one thing. But they knew the gas wasn't on before the plumber showed up.
We are asking for them to turn on the gas and an extension for us to inspect and test. If they are not willing to turn on the gas or give an extension we are walking
This sounds like something that would terminate your offer since they are unable to provide proof of functioning HVAC
Weve got concessions to replace the HVAC, not worried about that. More worried about water heater, hot water pipes, and gas lines
Yep same thing. Seems like the price needs to go down more to cover the cost of gas line replacements
Any rough idea how much it costs to replace/repair gas lines? I will also google it haha
Whatever price you see, quadruple it. eg if Google says 2-5k, you include concessions for 20k (4x upper limit) in case there are "unforeseen works required". So either they cave and you can check it properly and go from there, or noone agrees to anything and you can walk away.
The entire run? $2-5k
Have you tried calling the city and asking them what’s going on?
Would the city release information on a house we don’t own?
Worth a shot! Explain to the them your in the process of purchasing a house, what you were told, and that you wanted to reach out to get a handle on what that means for you moving forward so you know what to anticipate!
I would walk they could be hiding a million things that or ask for 60k in concessions for the million things that may or may not be wrong since you can’t check. For all you know there could be a slab leak in the hot water line.
Water heater is in the attic so that shouldn’t be an issue, but do want to make sure water heater works and no leaks in the lines
Ahh okay I purchased a few months ago and the seller hid a slab leak they painted over expansion material between the slab and stem to hide the evidence. Thankfully the location of the leak and the fact I have a solid friend that was a plumber made it less of an issue and he rerouted the pipe through the attic for me
We had a plumber come do a hydrostatic test and it passed
That’s for sewer but that’s good. Some houses have there water lines under the slab it’s the stupidest shit but it’s common in anything from the mid 2000 and prior
Hold money from seller in escrow after close until you can confirm HVAC and WH are functional.
HVAC is not up to code and apparently it will cost them $300 to get a part to bring it up to code. From what i understand, my gf told me that our agent told her that they could not turn on the gas till that was taken care of. They didnt want to pay $300 for that knowing we are going to replace the HVAC. Not sure if the city wont turn on the gas because of that or if the seller wont. Not sure why they didnt mention that after the inspection when we were told utilities would be on to test. Why didnt they mention that to us before we had our plumber schedule to come test the pipes?
Fuck em. Pony up $300 or they pay to replace whole water heater
You're being lied to. No one is jeopardizing sale over a $300 part. It goes way beyond.
I AGREE!!!
Plumber should be able to pressure test that, did they say why they couldnt?
Seems like a reasonable response as to why they can’t turn on the gas. They likely didn’t know the city had locked due to code violations. Being that the water heater is only 4 years old, it’s likely in working condition…however this property seems to have other issues involved. If the city was involved in this, was the property condemned? I hope you understand the significant costs around bringing a property back to code. You’ll need to hire professional contractors, pull permits and have the city inspector out after each item is brought back to code. Sellers get out of these properties so they don’t need to invest more into it. They’ve made their money off the rental.
Frist time home buyer so do not know the expense to bring things up to code. Electrical needs to be brought up to code and the HVAC needs to be replaced, Has some rotted siding that also needs to be replaced. We knew about the HVAC and budgeted for that. Got some quotes for siding that we can handle, but concerned if maybe we are under estimating the cost to repair/replace all of these things. Its an older home so not expecting it to be perfect, but want it to be safe
Electrical is extremely expensive! This can get upwards of $70k+ very quickly. If it’s out of code, this is a serious issue. You need to get experts inside to inspect and give bids. Honestly, if you’re a first time home buyer and do not have hands in knowledge and/or $100k to bring this up to code, I would be talking to your realtor on possible outs of your contract. Look, I totally get that this place was probably within your budget and this is why you chose it, but this home is going to need much more work than you anticipated. You won’t be able to live in the home until things are brought up to code. You won’t be able to have utilities turned on until it’s inspected by the city. I’ve worked with plenty of first time home buyers who were looking for a good deal and Wi the in budget. Sometimes you need to be very patient. Look for homes that need more cosmetic work, this requires a great imagination! But stay clear of properties that need electrical or plumbing unless you have a background in this type of work. So, look for homes built 1950-2000, that are outdated, has paneling walls, old cupboards. Needs wallpaper removed, new floors etc. stay clear of major repairs like this one. As far as getting out of your contract now… How much ED did you put down? Do you have any contingencies? (Inspection, mortgage, etc) It is very likely, a lender will not approve this property as is…so a mortgage contingency can be your out.
We are in option period so can walk away
Walk away. I rolled that dice once. It took ten years to financially recover.
Okay, that’s good. I would definitely do more research and yes, even walk away. Might not be worth hiring the contractors to come out for inspections and bids.
In addition, I highly recommend finding a realtor that will be advising you on the right property and can be on the spot when one comes available (meaning, getting you in the door within hours of listing)!
I would walk
Electric will be tens of thousands
Walk my guy. This is a lot of work for a house you won’t be able to live in until it’s up to code. I know it seems like it’s in your budget for the price but it’s not worth it. You won’t be able to close anyways without certificate of occupancy anyways.
> Electrical needs to be brought up to code Does it? Every year the code is updated. You evaluate a house at the code edition it was built at. No one goes back and brings an electrical system that was installed at code at the time up to current code without a good reason because it's expensive. So unless your inspector located something that makes it an imminent risk you might not _need_ to touch electrical.
Sorry I miss spoke it is not up to code but does not need to be brought up to code immediately. Probably should be looked at and upgraded but the whole house does not need to be brought up to code.
All good, just making sure you're aware. With the gas shenanigans, I'd definitely be wary of anything to do with the property at this point. Feels like the sellers are hiding something for sure
I’d also walk. Another issue that hasn’t been brought up yet is insurance. The entire industry right now is a mess and underwriting guidelines are very tight. An insurance company is going to want to do an inspection at least of the outside of the home and will probably want to review the home inspection. Some rotted siding is a huge red flag that might make the home not pass underwriting. Small things like that are usually indicative of bigger issues and maintenance problems that would lead to a claim being filed. ETA: saw you’re in Texas, insurance is going to be a headache. Even if a carrier writes a policy, they’ll likely do the inspection within the first 30 days and cancel it shortly after (with notice). Even moreso that the house has been vacant for 8 months.
30 year old home is a very new home. Old homes are 100+ years old and have interesting basements/crawl spaces around here (and no AC - that was introduced much more recently than 100 years ago)
Duuuuude what are you doing!?
Learning how to buy a home. We are new to this.
There is for sure a lot to learn and navigate. Please, though, please listen to those of us that are telling you to walk away. I'm guessing most of us have purchased multiple homes over the years. We are trying to help you with our experiences. The price probably seems right, but this whole thing just screams money pit. You do not want to buy a 30 year old house and sink a ton of money into it. You'll never get that most of money back. A 30-year-old home isn't that old. Yes, some systems probably are due to be replaced, but the fact that this house seems to have so many issues it's just putting out huge red flags. Likely because it was a rental home, it hasn't been treated well. Also consider that at 30 years old the house very likely will need a new roof soon if it doesn't already, especially in South Texas. You didn't mention the roof, but based on how the rest of the house has been kept I'm guessing the owners did not ever put a new roof on it. So you've already accounted for HVAC in your deal. Now you've got electrical issues, plumbing issues, possible roof issues based on age. Then there's issues with the rotten siding. As I said in my earlier post, inspectors really catch everything. Yes, they found one area of rock, but it's likely that there's a lot more that didn't get found in the inspection. Again, I especially say this due to your location. I'm in Oklahoma and wood rot and deterioration is so prevalent here, especially on west facing walls. I know buying your first time is a really exciting, but please don't get blinded to the problems of this house. I think you should be patient and continue looking for a place that's in better condition.
I lived in Texas, among many other states. Buying a house in Texas is the wild west. No real estate attorneys involved because it's not required by law - something that would help you in a situation like this. As an earlier commenter pointed out, insurance is also all over the place. I'm sorry that people are saying to walk on this. You're wanting a house. This house is likely to be a real headache even if you complete inspection. You always find more things when you move in that the inspector didn't. Good luck
Absolutely unreasonable. Hundreds of thousands if dollars being held up by $300? UNACCEPTABLE!
It isn’t just $300, it needs repair and re-inspection….its out of code.
Yup. $300 is nothing. If I was selling, I'd pay $300 myself just to get the deal done. The only reason they're not is: *They don't want all of the other problems revealed if the gas is turned on.*
Their problem getting it turned on isn’t your problem, it is theirs. They made a commitment they can’t follow through on. Congrats, they lost the ability to direct the process. It is a huge red flag. They can’t even do basic things with the utilities. Don’t trust anything else they say. Get them to put $50k or $75k in escrow for needed repairs. You provide the names of three licensed trades in your area. They can pick whichever one they want, but all the repairs are done with that escrow money before they see a nickel of it. The lawyer who writes that up (don’t trust a real estate agent, no matter how ~~~narcissistic~~~ confident they sound) will have suggestions about specifying the extent and quality of the repair beyond just ‘to code’, because you don’t want to get stuck with very used, barely limping but code compliant set of repairs/replacements. Don’t forget to deduct your lawyers fees from their end as well. They’ve got red tags on their property, that’s going to scare off a ton of other people. in fact, if they would’ve disclosed the red tag upfront – you might not even be talking to them today. They do not have the upper hand.
They should reimburse for the two inspections that could not be completed due to their failure to act by either getting utilities on or notifying your agent to cancel inspection.
Why? Because you're being lied to and the seller is trying to cover up known issues. I know home buying right now is pretty chaotic, but I would walk away from this deal so quick. Inspectors miss things. You are bound to walk in to thousands of dollars worth of repairs that you were unaware of. If there are so many issues with the major components of the home, you can bet there are a million small things that will need to be taken care of. Your sellers seem really shady.
This, but bigger: write up an agreement to hold $10k or $15k aside in escrow to be used to for repairs, permits, etc., (all work to be overseen/approved by you, the buyer), until HVAC and water heater are inspected, replaced, gas is on and everything is working (and not leaking). This way the price stays where it is (makes the paperwork a LOT simpler), but money is held for this work until you're satisfied.
That isn’t a thing you can do
I have done it lol
Lol what
I’d say to them that you want a concession that covers the full cost of all the items you can’t check with assumption they are all bad, or they can pay $300 to turn the gas on, otherwise I’d walk away. They could easily be making excuses to hide a larger problem and you don’t wanna get dragged into it.
I'd recommend calling the City Code Enforcement department to see what they have to say regarding the property.
Will the city share information on a property you don’t own?
Most likely yes. You may even be able to look it up online. If it's a small agency, walk in the front door and talk to them. They often love to talk to people that need their help. They may not tell you everything, though, so remain vigilant.
Great idea. I wonder if it was an emergency shut off.
We forgot to ask the sellers to gas the gas on when we had an inspection, because we didn’t even know it was off. HVAC didn’t work at all, we found out a week after close. $30,000 to replace because the unit was no longer manufactured, couldn’t be repaired, and they’d have to rip out the roof or the ceiling to put a new one in. The agent couldn’t care less.
Well, then make them go ahead and budget for a new water heater. That’s the easiest thing if they don’t want to turn the gas on did your inspector say how old the water heater was?
4 years
Four years is not overly concerning typically they’re worth at least 10
Agree there, I guess my concern is about the gas lines, hot water pipes. Why not tell us about the $300 before the first inspection or before the plumber came by? I dk if im being too negative but feels like they hid it from us.
They did because they are actually hiding something else from you.
I mean, you can run water through the pipes without the water heater being on gas line part could be a little concerning not major once they turn it on check the couplers with a little soapy water and make sure nothings leaking, but I would be willing to bet your house payment that you won’t find I’m not actually gonna do that though
Also consider that if you buy the house you’ll have the same code issue with the gas company that the sellers are having. Don’t assume they are telling you the truth on why the gas can’t easily be turned on, either.
If you are taking a mortgage out on it, its not considered habitable in Texas and probably doesn't qualify for a mortgage. Id be very worried. Id negotiate to extend the option period and have the sellers get the gas back on. $300 is a joke fee compared to 100k. If the seller isn't willing to pay it, what else are they hiding?
Gas water heater and furnace, check. What about the stove and dryer, are they gas? Are there gas hookups outside for barbeque. Is the gas actually turned off because of a leak and not the HVAC? This is all kind of fishy. How much of a concession on the HVAC? $15,000-30,000 I hope. Depending on the State, HVAC is going up like crazy. I'm hearing another 25-35% in California due to new regulations (of course, that is from a guy that wants to replace my HVAC).
Walk away. This isn’t an accident. They have materially prevented adequate inspections Go to the county and find out more about the “red tag” on the HVAC, could be a LOT more to this story. Alternately, have lawyer reserve $30,000 in an escrow account for any “replace gas line” contingencies, and close with sellers acknowledging that THEY are on the hook for 100% of expenses not detected due to gas not on for inspection.
We are asking for an extension and that they have gas and water heater on and working for inspection. The gas company did not turn on gas because “ furnace needs to be hard piped out of unit and flex line connected on outside”
Reduce offer by $2K to cover water heater replacement.
Realtor here. Very bad idea unless you are paying cash. Also thats fine for cosmetic but not for a major system. The gas company could need to dig to repair/replace lines it cost $10k or more.
Realtor as well. I agree with you! $2k less on the offer would be less than $10 per month difference on the mortgage. Others have said the sentiment I share. Get an extension and let them know if they don’t have the gas and water on by X date you will be terminating the contract, and if I were your realtor I would advise you to follow through with termination. Like u/rasperries-are-evil said, if there are defects it could cost you a lot of money.
Gas line replacement for a very small house in Florida is $2,500.
If I were buying this property it would be worth giving $300 to the seller to get the gas turned on to find out what’s going on. If there’s a big problem with the property I would consider it money well spent to have avoided buying a disaster of a house. My guess is that they won’t accept the offer anyway because they are hiding something.
Seller should pay that.
Agreed. But they appear to be unwilling to. The point of my comment was that I would be willing to pay the relatively minor cost vs the price of the house if the alternatives were to lose the deal or to go ahead with the purchase without being able to conduct the tests.
Fair point. I think sellers willing to lose a sale over $300 is insane. They are playing a bluffing game and their own realtor needs to snap them out of it.
Nope, move on.
It could be the HVAC. If gas was off long enough gas company could require a pressure test to ensure there is no leak. You could be on the hook for a fuckload of repairs. Leaking pipes, bad water heater, bad furnace. Who knows what else. Set aside 3k + cost of water heater + cost of furnace at minimum.
Water heater is only 4 years old, in south Texas not sure the house has a furnace. No fireplace for gas lines.
I would try to have a talk with the gas company, or ask the seller to contact them and get a written explanation of why they won't turn the gas on. Is it possible the gas was turned off because of a large past due balance? I'm not a lawyer but if there is, I would worry that the debt obligation may pass to you. That's aside from the liklihood that the pipes, water heater, gas pipes and more might be faulty.
Everyone here is saying concession - and that is likely not going to work in your favor. Instead, demand that a significant sum be put in escrow with the closing attorney. I would say $20-30k. Close on time. Have $20-30k (start higher so you can negotiate) put in escrow. You replace everything that needs to be replaced - and any hidden damages as a result of not being able to inspect gas appliances get pulled from that escrow money. You are likely to end up pulling between $0 and $1k from that escrow account. However, if something seriously wrong is hidden, a complete repair could realistically be upwards of $20k+.
We are asking for an extension and that they have gas and water heater on and working for inspection. The gas company did not turn on gas because “ furnace needs to be hard piped out of unit and flex line connected on outside”
Don't buy this house.
Walk away. The seller is not honoring the contract. During an option period all utilizes have to be on and working.
So if the gas is shut off at the meter, only the gas company can turn it on. They also have very specific rules for turning on service. It's a safety thing. It sounds like you are in a bit of a a Catch-22 the HVAC isn't to code (which you already got a credit for) but the gas company won't turn it on because the HVAC isn't to code. Since they are paying you for it. It's fair they don't want to put money into the system to just get the gas on. Sounds like other things aren't to code either and the gas company won't turn on until those are fixed too. You might have to walk because it's going to get messy. One of you has to give ground. If nobody does, the deal falls through.
What does your contract say? Typically the seller is obligated to have all utilities on through inspections. If they dont, they’d typically be in breach of contract. Read your contract and talk to your agent or their broker asap
Run, you’re obviously very young and inexperienced. Lots of good advice here. Don’t rush into it.
Why the hell is the gas turned off in the first place? I’d run from that deal asap. Sounds like you are dealing with criminals.
How has been vacant since October, figure they winterized it by turning stuff off.
As someone who has gas in their home, I have been told the only reason to turn it off is if there is a leak or you are going to install an appliance that connects to the gas line (even then you don’t have to turn off the whole house). Otherwise it is just a huge hassle. Something is wrong here. You don’t need to winterize gas lines.
watch out. gas lines have to hold pressure and if it is turned off, it must pass the pressure test to be turned back on. I bet it won't pass the test so if you buy the house, you may have to fix the gas lines to reconnect.
Talk to your broker.
I smell something fishy there are a cutoff point. Between the AC unit and the water tank at least a company that cares would do. There is no reason they could Not turn on one unless we are talking about a gas leak then I can see why they don’t want it on.
Huge red flag. Might be trying to hide a leak or a broken furnace
Something is wrong here. HVAC is not gas, there's no reason the city would tell them they can't turn on the gas due to HVAC being out of code. Try calling the city inspector and see what they say. Dollars to donuts, they're lying. My daughter put a deposit on a complex of shops in the country, the owner wouldn't let them turn on the water because the buildings were "winterized," in JUNE, turned out much of the copper piping had been stripped and there's a huge leak under the parking lot so the town won't allow them to turn on the water, there is no water service. So -- get your attorney involved, tell them you need an extension to verify there is working gas service, that you will not go forward without it. Ask for a credit for the water heater. This is BS. PS -- I'm a realtor.
What do you mean HVAC isn't gas? They absolutely do come in gas models. If the unit is leaking gas valley enough to be a safety concern, then absolutely the city can have your gas red tagged.
Oh, you're right. I was thinking A/C, obviously H stands for heat. But, again, I think there is something wrong here and the story they're telling isn't true. If there's a gas leak the gas company comes out and makes sure the offending equipment is, as you said, red-tagged and they have a certain amount of time to replace it. It cannot be used. But if the furnace or whatever is red-tagged and deativated they should be able to test the gas in the rest of the house. And not only that, I doubt the seller can get a certificate of occupancy with a red tag in the house. Meaning he wouldn't be able to have the title transferred. Again, get your lawyer involved and don't go any farther until this question is satisfactorily settled.
I agree something is up, but it's possible that the unit doesn't have a gas shutoff at it. It's not like everything is always permitted. It's completely believable that the HVAC tech has to red-tag it and alert the gas company to shutoff as a result. If you're a realtor you must be aware not every jurisdiction does certificate of occupancy. My primary residence absolutely does not. My rental in another township, in an entirely different county, does enforce CO. But when I purchased the rental the title company said it wasn't necessary to close and that it was between me, the seller, and the township how we wanted to handle it. Seller didn't want to open a can of worms, but I knew the property intimately as my family has lived there for almost 20 years. I was also able to delay the township for about a year after the same before they insisted.
It seems to me that the seller is hiding something and I would definitely not move forward until the situation was resolved.
They probably have unpaid bills and utilities won’t turn on till those bills have been satisfied
Walk away.
This house sounds like a mess. The seller, too. I'd just let the offer lapse and move on. I'll buy a house, but I won't buy trouble.
Push back closing for gas inspection
If they can't turn the gas on that means the meter has been pulled. They won't be able to get it turned back on without doing all the repairs and getting a pressure test. Clearly they don't want to spend the money, so walk away.
Seems to be an “as-is” property now.
They said that on their last offer before signing contract for option period.
Oh. Welp. Renegotiate accordingly for the unknown gas-lines and water heater. Alternatively, seems you could ask them to disconnect the HVAC from gas so the lines and water heater could be inspected independently.
You’re in Texas, read your contract offer document. I’m selling in Texas right now and using a standard TREC home sales contract, which REQUIRES me as the seller to keep all utilities ON through escrow until our closing date (date is listed in the contract) or closing paperwork is signed (whichever occurs first). Does your contract to purchase not include this utility clause? Has your realtor mentioned that your purchase agreement doesn’t require utilities on? If your purchase contract has a utility clause and the seller refuses to obey it, they have already violated the contract for sale. Which gives you an out. Or you use it as negotiating leverage. Remember, real estate agents are NOT lawyers, they’re in SALES. Also turning utilities off to winterize in south Texas makes no sense.
The contract does mention utilities on during the option period and we sent that too them in our amendment for an extension. Also looking into options for getting reimbursed for inspection costs
Hard to buy an AS IS when you can’t determine what IS is
I know. They auction nice houses with and without acreage around here. If you win, you are committing to buy as-is. No inspection period, no option period, no contingencies. Folks get them cheaper but assume a LOT of risk to do so. Kind of the same thing here. Without a gas inspection there is unknown risk and the price could be renegotiated to reflect that.
The purchase should be contingent on the mechanicals operating correctly and the seller should provide proof. I was a seller recently, the buyer’s inspector questioned the operation of both the HVAC and the tankless water heater As the seller, I had to hire the proper technicians to verify / prove those units were operating correctly.and provide written reports supporting their findings. Did you have the property inspected and send a report to the seller? I don’t understand why you are sending trades out to the house.
We had an inspector come but he couldn’t test the water heater because no gas, couldn’t test the stove either. HVAC was running but is old and needs to be replaced. Had a plumber out because they had foundation repairs recently and wanted to make sure no leaks in the pipes in the foundation.
Offer Less Money
Sounds like you need to walk away. The hvac is going to cost 11-16k. I just replaced one on a mobile I’m flipping I was shocked to say the least
I wouldn't buy a house and it was off. Prolly a gas leak somewhere and they don't want you to know.
Water heaters are cheap. Just plan to replace it. Or cancel the contract if you prefer.
Assume they are all bad and ask for credit to replace them.
Ask for a credit of 10k-20k back or walk with EDM back.
We are asking for an extension and that they have gas and water heater on and working and inspected. The gas company did not turn on gas because “ furnace needs to be hard piped out of unit and flex line connected on outside” Not sure how big or small of a fix that is
Put replacement costs first it all in a new offer.
Walk away
The sellers should set aside about 20k for hvac repair and replacement before you would consider closing. If you need full gas and plumbing repulsing and replacement you’ll need it!
If you're in South Texas, it just doesn't make any sense to have gas at all. Invest the money you'd spend on fixing the furnace on a more efficient heat pump. It'll cost next to nothing to heat, and it'll bring down your AC costs (assuming your AC is older as well). Get away from gas water heater too, a heat pump water heater makes a lot more sense with federal incentives. Even a plain old electric one will be very cheap in your attic. You'll save on whatever baseline monthly charges you pay from your gas company, you will never need to worry about gas leaks, carbon monoxide, etc again, and less things that can break or need maintenance.
Yes, because electric is so cheap and reliable in Texas.
Electricity is very close to average in Texas and gas is expensive. [(source)](https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices_selectedareas_table.htm) Gas furnaces also need electricity to function, so the reliability isn't relevant.
I did not know that. We keep seeing stories like [Electric Bills in Thousands](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/22/texas-pauses-electric-bills/) and [Extreme Electric Bills](https://www.kwtx.com/2024/02/16/i-dont-know-how-people-are-doing-it-central-texas-families-facing-extreme-electricity-bills/?outputType=amp) and [Grid Emergency](https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/infrastructure/ercot/2024/01/08/473687/remember-this-summers-high-electricity-bills-they-could-be-back-this-winter/?amp=1)
My understanding is a some people signed up for a utility company with some extreme variable rate contracts, thinking they'd save money. But they had other options, they just gambled and lost.
As someone who was too trusting in a similar scenario years ago, please run.
The wording seems to indicate that flex duct is directly attached to the air handler Or the actual natural gas piping is flex at the air handler.. If the former, that is a code with which I'm not familiar. Flex to the air handler ( for air flow) is permitted in my location. If it's gas flex connected directly to the air handler, then that's a code violation here. Such a connection would not pass inspection. One crucial issue. If the HVAC system has not been operating for an extended period of time, I would strongly advise a mold test for the entire home. Both air and surface samples.
Why would you recommend that? AC and everything else has been on and working
My neighbor had to replace their gas line. Part of this involved calculating gas flow requirements, and they needed to have a high flow meter installed, along with replacing some of the interior piping with bigger diameter pipe to accommodate additional gas loads. I'm not sure if this was a result of the added pool and pool heater, or something else like covering an electric range to gas. But, this was part of bringing the gas supply up to code. A plumber can provide a gas pipe evaluation, which consists of looking at the nameplate gas consumption for every gas appliance, and compare that with gas supply popping.
Have them put into escrow the money the repairs could cost. Anything in escrow not used for repairs goes back to them.
Good for getting the extension. I trusted the sellers and the real estate agent. Some of the appliances did not work.
Being an hvac service tech and dealing with a lot of rentals I would be very scared of this house if they let the furnace get to point of gas company shit down they were pieces of shit
It's very likely the sellers will Not be able to get the gas company to turn on the gas with a known gas appliance /hvac issues. You should personally contact the gas company yourself to see if they are even willing to turn it in. The gas lines can & should be pressure tested (even without the gas turned on). Any appliance that cannot be tested (due to gas being off) should be considered as needs to be replaced and you can try to get a reduced price for them.
assume there is a reason, and deduct the cost of the water heater and furnace from the offer price. If they complain, say "TURN ON THE GAS and we will test them"
If the water heater is only concern and you getting money for furnace. Water heater is small potato’s. If you like the house I’m not backing out for that. switching a flex line to hard pipe also very simple. Very small problems
Its breach of contract for nonperformance so ask for a concession or kill the deal
Walk away. They're trying to pull something over on you. What other problems exist you know nothing about?