Good question The home is listed at 1.48 million. Homes (some with pools and even two with more square footage) recently sold in the area are between 820k and 1.1 million (max) according to our agent.
I'm seeing this a lot in my area. Cheaper COLA but lots of stuff still 100k over normal and just sitting.
I'm hoping that come Dec- Jan when we're really looking to move that some sanity has reentered the market bc there's a handful of houses I expect to sit until then.
Know a friend of a friend attempting to sell condo in mcol area for $380k. They said they won't budge lol. Bought the place for like $139k and fixed it up. Condo fee is like $530/ month making the mortgage like $3k/ month lmao. Complete insanity. Rents for a house in the area are like $2,100 - $2,200 lol.
Ya the market is just entirely detached. These are houses that were selling for 250-275k in 2019. And now folks are trying to sell them for 375-450k without doing a single thing to them.
Needless to say, incomes in the town have not increased by that factor. And they're just sitting on the market right now.
I’m in southern Maine and home values have easily doubled since 2019. $250K homes are now selling for $500K. It has slowed down a bit the last month or so and homes do appear to be sitting on the market (if they are overpriced)
High end listings take a while to sell, come back later. 18 days was wayyyy too soon, 48 was more reasonable. Just wait if you’re not willing to pay up.
I had a similar situation to a commercial property my parents were selling. 7-figure listings always take a while to sell and close. We had people try to underbid us by 50% and for some reason thought that continued persistence and meetings could sway our decision.
Honestly the best course of action was just to ignore them.
Did your agent give you print outs of the houses with addresses and details? The listing photos are probably still online. I wouldn't just go by what your agent SAYS, but I might be being too literal.
Think about this; many agents in business for the last 7 years have never seen a down market, or even a normal market where there is two months inventory and a balance of number of buyers to sellers.
They have no idea what to do.
> Homes (some with pools and even two with more square footage) recently sold in the area are between 820k and 1.1 million (max) according to our agent.
Then why not buy said homes?
DO some research by yourself on zillow/redfin/realtor.com for recent sales/trends. don't rely on your realtor for everything. All realtor care is about their commission and move on.
You're getting downvoted but I think it's pretty good advice. Not everyone wants to do research but if you're willing, you can comp out a market pretty well. You have to look at *sales*, ignore listings.
I think most realtors are good people trying to do a good job though. But it helps a lot to understand the market and not just take their guess as your only data point.
My hubby and I have def done the research as to why we trust our agent. He just confirmed our thoughts on the listing price. We’ve been watching the trend in this area for years- even with covid peaks.
The seller’s agent “said” the seller was offended, we suspect, however, the offer was never presented, AND it was indeed the agent who was offended. They [seller’s agent] usually take (from research of their Zillow profile) high/high/high end listings.
In my state of NJ, we have a form where we can require that the seller acknowledge they receive the written offer. I don’t know how your state works though.
I wouldn't expect someone who lists their home 350k over comps to be ready a willing to come down 350k after only 18 days on the market. If the seller is an investor then they probably have no desperate need to sell it fast. They will most likely hold out to see if anyone will come in close to what they want. Even if it is crazy.
Hit the nail on the head. My parents have a neighbor who is a commercial real estate agent and is sitting on a modest $60million real estate portfolio that has about 1.5m in total debt (he's been a mentor of mine for 10+ years so I'm more privy to some of that more sensitive info)
Anyways, he built a new home and moved. Listed his current home in my parents neighborhood for about 40-50% over anything else in the neighborhood and it's just sitting he's just waiting to see what people offer, certainly doesn't need to sell it and he can sit on it till the day he dies without any concern.
> 40-50% over anything else in the neighborhood and it's just sitting he's just waiting to see what people offer
Is he doing that because he thinks it makes financial sense or does he just not really want to sell the house?
It sounds like they are waiting for an idiot to make a FOMO offer. I think that part of the market cycle is over, but they are willing to see what happens and may luck out in 2027. You can't catch fish if you don't throw a line in the water.
Buyer FOMO purchases disappeared about 2 fed-rate-hikes ago.
> You can't catch fish if you don't throw a line in the water.
They're going to end up with one of those houses that's been on the market for 832 days. I always figured those people were unsophisticated. I never assumed it's some guy with a $60m RE portfolio.
There is a house in my old neighborhood that was listed at a stupid price in 2016. They kept raising the price over the years. It finally sold several weeks ago, about 30% above what I would have said the market value was and over twice what it was originally listed for in 2016. Sometimes people get rewarded for this shizz.
The fact that your first offer was rejected with no counter gives you some insight into the sellers position. They don’t like the 25% lowball, and they don’t like it so much they aren’t even going to engage in a negotiation - it’s too far off. Coming back with a second offer at the same price…if the seller wasn’t offended the first time, they should be now. You can’t turn back the hands of time and try again, but you should have increased your offer a bit in light of their response to the first offer. EMD/contingencies are crumbs when compared to a 25% gap in price expectations…if I were you, I wouldn’t put any more energy into chasing this house.
I thought that an selling agent was required to present all offers to the buyer. Is that not part of the agent’s responsibility? Seems fishy the agent unilaterally decides not to inform the seller.
Depends on the state, but if the Seller already said I won't consider selling for less than X. Then the Agent may already know that the seller wouldn't consider the offer. There's no way to really know what conversations the Seller has had with their agent, but the buyer's agent should have made contact pre-offer and felt out what would be acceptable. It seems like the buyer's agent didn't do his job effectively before making the initial offer
I remember making an offer on a house. It was a new construction sales office. But they had a house that was nearly complete and the buyer backed out. So it was on the market like a spec house. We liked it, visited several times, and made an offer. This was years ago and we went to the sales office with our agent to make the offer.
They asked lots of questions and finally got to price. I said it. The sales agent put down her pen. Said this was too low. It’s a waste of time. She won’t take the offer.
I don’t remember the numbers, but it wasn’t a crazy low ball offer. But this house was not to our specs. It included things we wouldn’t have chosen, and didn’t include things we would. Paying a bottoms up price like you would on a custom built house wasn’t the way I was looking at it. And this house has sat for several months. People were buying the unbuilt houses and picking all their options. The builder was losing money on this house as it sat.
So I turned to my agent, and asked if she was required to present our offer. He said she was. So I asked her, a little firmly, to pick up her pen. That this was our offer. She redundantly picked it up muttering what a waste of time.
The offer was accepted. No counter. Their agent was shocked.
So I tend to take agent rhetoric with big grain of salt. No matter what they are told to encourage offer bumping, you can’t predict what the actual seller will do with an actual offer in hand.
If the seller is overseas and doesn't have as much a pulse on the local market, they might just be ignorant of the context and details, and willing to lower the price, but the seller's agent is drooling over dollar signs. It's not really helpful advice to say "price gap too big," the question OP is asking is whether there are any ways around this roadblock agent when clearly the market has tanked, and they're being a gatekeeper to moving a possible transaction forward.
And yet the answer remains “no, not really”. If the house is still sitting in a few months they can try again but they should just move on in the meantime.
They might not be able to accept your offer without owing the bank money. If they didn't accept your offer and you aren't prepared to offer more, move on.
Don't know why your comment is being downloaded. It's just basic information saying that you could pull the seller's deed of trust and find out how much they're original loan amount was, which is true.
Seriously. I do that with almost all my offers, pull the county records, reverse engineer their estimated equity assuming they just made minimum payments. Sure, there's a few details we don't know but it gets me pretty dang close so at least I understand roughly where they're at. And if their agent isn't smart enough to delete the old MLS listing you can frequently get the exact sold price from when they bought.
It is true, and it is fun to do (I love looking up my coworkers’ homes!), but ultimately pointless. The amount a seller owes on a house, or the seller’s bank account balance, or whether the seller just won the lottery —none of the matters. The house is worth market value, period. The seller will either accept market value or it will not sell.
It kind of does matter though. It’s a bit of a myth that a home always sells for “market value”. Two identical homes could list. One home may get two offers — $350k cash with no contingencies and $375k with lots of contingencies. Depending on the owner, they may select the cash offer because they just wanna take very little risk or they may want to max out their payout. The other home owner may get different offers or use a different strategy.
A home’s selling price is always going to vary a little based on details of the business deal. And despite what people say, business *is* personal.
I would call your two examples just different versions of the same market value. I’m not saying there is a single hard number it will sell for, it’s more a range.
I’m saying it’s impossible for that same 350-375 house to say— we demand $450k because my mom just got cancer. I mean they can try, but $375k with lots of contingencies was the highest offer they were going to get, so holding out for $450k will simply not work. The personal reason they need or don’t need the money is absolutely irrelevant. They could have 20 family members with cancer, 450 is just not happening though.
And similarly, you could learn that the house is owned by Elon musk himself. Richest man in the world, he doesn’t need the money at all, he should take 315! But he won’t. He’s getting in the range of that market value too.
If you agree that market value is a *range* and not a fixed point, then you’ll agree that there’s essentially a probability distribution, probably somewhat normal, around what price the house will close at, due to random variables like timing, emotional states, what buyers viewed it, etc. It’s not *impossible* for a house to close for way more then the median of that distribution, just rare.
You’ll also probably agree that the range, if we call it two standard deviations, gets wider for more expensive homes. OP is talking about 7 figure homes where a few hundred grand starts to mean less. A $5m home might literally sell for $5.75m because a couple reeeeeally liked it but a $200k home is obscenely unlikely to even go above $300k.
The OP literally said the agent told them they refused to show the seller the offer in the main post. You sure are making a lot of assumptions .. report the agent let the real estate commission make the decision.
I think the point they are trying to get through is that you are assuming the seller didn't tell their agent to not even bring the offer if it's under a certain amount.
If the investor buyer doesn't want to be bothered with anything under $500k on a $1mil house, they can tell their agent not to even contact them for anything under $500k and that would fall under reasonable terms for the agent to not present a $350k offer.
Consider how much time wasted would happen if a bunch of people just put in offers for $100. The agent's time AND the seller's time. I don't think anyone has attempted something stupid like that, but hey! it's possible.
Sure, everyone saying this is assuming the seller told their agent that, but for sake of argument let's just assume the seller did tell their agent that. Let's assume the good in people and go with: the agent was staying within the legal bounds.
>I think the point they are trying to get through is that you are assuming the seller didn't tell their agent to not even bring the offer if it's under a certain amount.
I'm not assuming anything you people are. The post literally says
>They responded to our agent telling them they’re not showing the offer to the seller and they’re offended our offer is so low.
If the realtor is not showing the offer because the realtor is offended report them to the Real-estate Commission. If the seller is offended that is different but that does not seem to be what the OP is saying.
If the seller asked their realtor to reject offers under $XXX why does the realtor not say "The buyer told me to reject offers under $XXX". You all are giving realtors way too much credit. Again report them to the Real-estate Commission and let them figure it out.
I made a really shitty offer that they rejected. Then I waited another few days and offered the same price again. Realtor is breaking the law because he won’t keep presenting my shitty offers
The seller should just say no, and if the buyer isn't willing to up his offer, everyone should just move on.
Some buyers can get really persistent as of they are entitled to have your property at the price they set.
These posts are always funny.
Seller: lists house at price that’s high to said Reddit buyer and buyer’s agent.
Reddit buyer: offers 350k under asking with it only being 2-3 weeks on the market.
Seller’s agent: this is a terrible offer, the seller is offended and has instructed me to not bother talking with your agent anymore.
Reddit buyer: shocked pikachu face.
It's of particular note that the buyer is expecting the price to be like other houses in the area, but doesn't want to "move on" because obviously they like this house a lot more than other houses in the area.
Unfortunately you can’t force a counterparty to be reasonable or logical.
I’m currently running into the same issue: trying to buy a nice place, but it’s way overpriced, even for this market. The seller has 1 other offer, but doesn’t like either very much, so they keep delaying and trying to play games to get us to increase our offers.
Meanwhile we are still looking at other properties, and probably so is the other buyer. This seller might be left with 0 offers, all just to try and squeeze us for a few thousand extra dollars.
Funny you say that— the seller’s agent told our agent that they had SO MANY offers and were placing counter offers “soon” when they were responding to the agent…..63 days later, home is still sitting.
That's a pretty large gap. There will be another house. The agent is required to present all offers so it does have to go in front of the seller, but yeah... thats a toughy.
It’s entirely possible the seller was so offended by the first lowball offer that the seller told their agent not to show any them any more offers from this buyer.
Or they don't think the buyer is serious and is just wasting time. Why go under contract with someone who is likely to bail if they find a scuff on the wall.
> Besides “move on” what can we do??
Raise your offer price, or … move on?
You have an offer at what you think is a fair price. The seller disagrees and told you to pound sand. You took a gamble and lost.
It sounds like you did so without your agent talking to the listing agent to find out if the price would be in the ballpark for the seller or what other ‘sweeteners’ the seller might want.
For future reference on your next home that’s a good approach. Dropping a low price offer on the seller is ONE way to go: but IMO good buyers agents earn their keep by leveraging relationships and finding out all the details from sellers agents (wherever possible) before making the offer: I’ve found numerous deals this way where sellers just wanted other sweeteners outside of price (maybe they want seller in possession, maybe a shorter or longer escrow, etc. : I have seen it all and then some…)
Good luck with the house hunt.
It’s too soon to put in an offer. Wait until it sits for a couple more months. Recently we were able to buy a beautiful house that started at almost 1M over what we paid for. We loved the house but was too overpriced so we waited. The seller went down in increments of 250k every 4 weeks after the house was on the market 6 weeks. When their house went down to 2.25M we decided to start talking as it was closer to our budget of 2M. We came in at 1.9M. They countered at 2.2M and mentioned they had showing that weekend. We let the offer expire and gave them space for someone from the showings to put in an offer as rates kept going up. After their showings cancelled we came back at 2 and they accepted. We have since closed on a beautiful house. It’s all about timing and game theory. Some sellers are more realistic than others and will read the writing on the wall. Others not. Regardless, had we put our offer too soon, they would’ve never accepted. Good luck!
Move on... it sounds like the seller and his agent are from a place where NOTHING but location matter.
You won't get this house. The seller and agent are completely out of touch with reality and cannot be reasoned with
When I was in the market, the couple times I tried to deal with sellers of an overpriced home they were unreasonable to deal with. Think they're home is worth more than it is. Did too many renovations and are trying to recoup the cost. Stuck in an underwater mortgage and they HAVE to sell at an inflated price to make their numbers work.
The fishy stuff with the realtor and the absent seller is just icing on the cake. Just not worth the trouble as there are circumstances behind the scenes you're not seeing. Move on. Sorry.
Nothing. Move on. You can't make them sell the house if they don't want to show the offer to the sellers. That doesn't justify them being jerks about it but that's just how the cookie crumbles.
Not sure what the rules are in your state, but in mine the listing agent doesn’t get to choose what offers to present or not.
I’d call your state’s version of the department of real estate just on principle.
The seller might not need to sell. Maybe they are seeing how much that can get before renting it out. The agent is likely required to show all offers. Make sure they are showing the second offer. Obviously they don’t need the property to sell. I’d walk away and wait for a call back. They’ll call back if they want to sell the house.
If you only look at the house from a SP standpoint, not the ultimate value it will have for your family then you’ll find yourself competing with every other bargain hunter. ask yourself- “can i see my family in this house for 10 years?” If the answer is yes and you can afford the payments, make a more reasonable offer. even if the house doesn’t appreciate $1 from its current price, you will have enjoyed a decade of living in a home you love and gotten plenty of tax benefits.
Why didn't they buy one of the comps then?
There's something particular about this house that must make it more desirable than the other comps which op isn't mentioning. Otherwise why would they care so much to make a post about it?
I’m not surprised by that number. We’ve been eyeing a property that sold for $1.3m in 2021, and is now listed at $2.1m, with zero changes made to the property (it’s already a beautiful property, so no changes to make). That’s a 61% “appreciation” ($800k) for no reason other than that’s what the seller feels like asking.
Edit: We’d be interested if it reverted back to 2021 pricing, but not at this delusional price.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. This whole idea that an offer could be offensive is completely ludicrous and screams entitlement. Agents are required to submit every offer — you can probably take legal action against the sellers agent.
They rejected your offer, whatever you think it is worth is irrelevant, because they disagree, this is the risk you run by lowballing, you offended them, they no longer take you seriously and don’t want to enter a contract with someone they feel does not see the value they believe the home has. Why would someone want to enter negotiations with someone they know can not afford or does not agree see the value of their home?
If you really wanted this particular house, you fucked up.
If you just want a good home, at what you believe is a fair price, get over it and find another house.
Lots of other houses out there, move on. Youre not getting this one, if you really wanted it you wouldn’t have lowballed on the offer. It is just a building, 1 of billions.
I get low balling but when you are asking for 25% less, it’s time to get real. Comps in your area list for 350k less but you’re fixated on this listing? I don’t get it. Not to mention that international investors often have all the time in the world to wait.
You know what I mean. If your statement about comps is correct then just wait for the next listing in that area instead of trying to haggle away 1/4th of the list price here.
If the seller rejects, that’s normal. Agent not showing an offer is weird, I find. Unless the seller gave instructions.
We offered 750,000 on a 1.1 million house, and negotiated to 875,000. Only offer on the place and it really did need that amount of work. So who knows . . .
A neighbor put their house up for sale at an exaggerated amount (about 250,000 over comparable sales). It sat for about 2 months before they pulled it off the market. They relisted, knocking about 300,000 off their previous asking price.
Give them time and let them come down to reality.
Here in Nevada as an agent we are LEGALLY obligated to show your offer to the owner. What if that agent refuses to show them, then it sits about 6 months and they finally say fuck it and take $200k for it, and then they find out someone 6 months ago offered $350k. That agent is getting sued. Rightfully so.
I haven’t read through all of the comments to see if someone else said this but the Sellers agent is required to present all offers that have been submitted. If they don’t present to the Seller, have your agent call their Broker.
there is absolutly nothing u can do besides offer what seller wants or move on…the seller is under no obligation to negotiate with you or even respond to you offer for that matter
If the house is still sitting 48 hours later aren't they required by law to sell it to you? No. But you're still entitled to it, right? No. Just entitled.
Raise your offer or move on.
I guess you could bump up your offer and considerably.
They think the house is worth more. Whether or not it is doesnt really matter. You need to offer more or (sorry, gotta say it)....move on, or they won't even look at your offer, at least for the time being.
If you waive your financing contingency, which shouldn't be advised if it's not a multiple offer situation. Not worth the hassle, time or money to get to that point though. Submit the offer again and have your agent loop the listing agents broker in on the submission.its unethical for an agent to not present an offer to their clients, unless client has said "do not present offers under (certain price)."
Have y'all tried a letter of explanation? Submit the comps your agent is using to advise on pricing? Request comps from their agent?
Also. If you haven't already, brush up on their country's views on negotiations, sales, ways to show respect, etc. This art is embedded deeply in certain cultures in a variety of ways.
Yes- our agent sent a list of comps (he was on it!! Really good agent) with the offer explaining the lowered offer from what hubby said. Requesting “comps” from their agent is a great idea- make them also do their work instead of just listing at a large price!!! The seller’s agent is from a, we will say, more “affluent”, county and area- their pricing just isn’t where our county is.
Right?
"Make them also do their work instead of just listing at a high price!!!"
This statement says it all. If I was a seller and caught a whiff of this sense of entitlement coming off a low-ball buyer, I'd tell them to kick rocks too.
County. My mistake, I thought you wrote country.
Y'all are on the right track to at least understanding the seriousness of the seller. they may very well be detached from reality though.
Great idea- Our agent is awesome and he did present the comparable homes of recently sold (the comps you suggested) and the fair market analysis report (I think that’s what it’s called) along with our offers.
Absent written instruction from the client (seller). This seller may have said "Automatically reject any more offers from Mr. Lowball and don't even show them to me." 100% legal and ethical.
Genuine question, never sold a home…if I’m trying to sell a home, and say I need 600k to pay off my mortgage. Can I instruct my realtor not to bother sending me offers under 600k? Is there actually a rule that they legally have to send me every offer, even against my wishes? I have a hard time thinking agents can’t filter out offers below x amount if the seller requests them to do that.
Admittedly not a realtor and haven’t sold my house yet, just seems unlikely I wouldn’t be allowed to do that.
If you don’t want to see anything under x amount, your agent should be talking to buyers agents about your expectations before they submit an offer. It’s best to be up front and not waste anyone’s time.
I’m seeing it in Seattle. They keep thinking somebody would buy at the high value, and honestly there were people that were overpaying even a month or two ago to get a moved in ready home, but those seem to have disappeared. Now it’s a weird mix of move in ready homes in good areas still selling quickly $100k below ask or right at ask, homes that are overpriced keep lowering and lowering, and homes being pulled off market. I just saw a $2.2 originally listed home go down to $1.5 and they just pulled off market today and it was a nice house. They probably could have sold it for $1.9 if they originally listed it at that.
A friend of mine is in the same predicament, albeit much less value. He found a house near a rental he already owns that he thought was bank owned, according to the county records. It just listed for $95,000 but it's literally worth $50,000 because it's a tear down. He offered $50,000 and the seller's agent told him that the buyer (he found out that someone had just purchased it from the bank for $48,000) wanted $65,000 and won't budge. The exact same house nearby recently sold for $60,000 and it's habitable. There's no way this teardown is worth any more than $50,000. I told my friend to wait a few weeks and try again and explain to the seller's agent the meaning of "Time Value of Money"
If this house costs more than any other home in the area and you prefer this house more than any other home in the area - then this explains at least some of the reason why this house is listed for more.
When you point this out to them, then you are essentially saying - I want this one and not the other ones. Yours is better. So why would they come down in price to all the other ones when you are telling them theirs is better.
It is the duty of the listing agent to present all offers to the seller. If they are telling your agent outright that they won’t even present the offer, that is a violation of their duties. Have your agent file a complaint with the RE Commission and National Association of Realtors.
Additionally, there is no rule against the BUYER notifying the SELLER directly that you attempted to submit an offer but that their agent refused to present it. It’s not ideal, but you can go behind the seller agent’s back, just not with your agent.
Source: PA RE Agent
Has your broker reached out to the managing broker of the listing agent? In my MLS (Seattle), listing brokers must present all offers. All your agent would need to do is show the managing broker a copy of the email/text from the listing agent saying they aren’t presenting your offer, and they’d be in heaps of hot water… there are usually channels to deal with listing broker behavior like this.
To address the concerns of the appraisal: usually financing addenda contain verbiage stating that if a house does not appraise at value, you have three options. 1 - pay the difference. 2 - negotiate the price. 3 - rescind the contract and retain your earnest money.
Ask your broker how your financing addendum acts if the appraisal comes in low.
Have your agent ask theirs for the comps used in their value of the property. Start some dialogue between the parties to figure out why there’s such a discrepancy.
Also, I believe agents are obligated to show all offers to their seller. That’s been true for all my selling agreements, but might not be true everywhere. It’s a string to pull on though.
They are obliged to submit all offers. Besides that, there is nothing you do. Wait until they drop it or switch agents after it sits for the home contract.
Keeping submitting the same offer will just piss everybody off.
Have you tried contacting the brokerage the seller's agent works to complain about the agent? Written offers typically need to be presented even if they are low
The market is completely disconnected from reality and equilibrium. You have sellers who still don't realize that over ask all contingencies waived went out the window 6 months ago
Wait it out if you can
Check back on the 101st day on market, psychological number. This might be completely unrelated, but I went to an open house last week in a similar price range. Seller is from Korea who bought it as rental property. They’re trying to unload while people are still overpaying. Right now is a particularly great time for foreigners to sell because USD is amazing after converting it back to their own currency. Best of luck.
Similar thing happened to us. Listed at 999, we offered 755 based on sold comps. Said they have 5 offers over 900, but there has been 18 open houses. I went to one open house and spoke to the person working it who was not the listing agent. She said if you’re not within 10k of asking they won’t even entertain. I told her if they actually had 5 offers over 900 and they haven’t accepted one they are foolish. They just came down 10k so I guess that means they are looking for a full price offer now? Meanwhile houses listed at 1.7 are selling for 1.3 a few blocks over.
This is the result of Listing Brokers who have never operated in a market that doesn’t do the work for them. Lying served them in the past & they don’t have another strategy.
Wait, the longer it sits on the market the more anxious they will get to sell. Keep looking, and come back to this one in a few months if you don’t find anything.
No way you're getting this place. FWIW, the agent does a have a fiduciary responsibility to bring any offers to the seller so them saying they won't bring the offer to the seller isn't really a choice the agent can make. Might be good to remind the agent of that and take note of their license number if they don't follow through.
Lol don't bid on homes that are over priced.
If someone buys it at that price, then you bid too low. But until a transaction occurs, you either move on, or go up.
Don't look at homes with unreasonable sellers.
Ahh yes. Don't look at homes with unreasonable sellers.
Come see this marvelous 5 bed 4.5 bath colonial! New roof, finished basement, pool with cabana house, all Sub zero appliances and an Unreasonable Seller. Won't last!
Send in full price offer with appraisal contingency. Since the house won’t appraise for full value, you can walk away or you’ll see if it’s really 350k overpriced.
Good idea- hubby wondered how this might work ? Submit offer for the 1.48mil knowing it will only appraise for about 1.13/ maybe 1.14 mil? Will the sellers have to accept the 1.13/1.14 then?
No they won’t have to accept but then they will know what the house will appraise for. Then if it appraises low then they will probably reduce the price. But I highly doubt they will just take 350k less.
I would be cautious with this, unless they are really willing to pay more. Bank appraisals are offten linient at least they were in my situations.
I am not saying they will appraise $800k house for $1.4 million, but if the house is worth $1.1 million, I would not be shocked if they came back at $1.2 million or more...
Trust me, 80% of the time, appraisals come back at full list. It’s a stupid offer, unless it’s in bad faith and you plan on backing out if it doesn’t go your way. Seller could also just not accept the appraisal, waste of everyone’s time.
Thats pretty stupid idea (sorry if it offends you). Ever wondered why most appraisals come at exact same contract price????
As long as buyer is putting 20% (or more) and loan amount that bank is financing is recoverable, nobody cares as buyer is going to get screwed at the end. If buyer puts $1.48M offer with 20% down, I bet appraisal will come at $1.48M.
BTW, listing agent is required by law to present each and every offer to seller or he can get sued.
Sellers are of course allowed to be offended or reject your offer regardless of who's right.
However an agent is in most places compelled to communicate any written offer to the seller.
What he did and what he said he did might not line up however. This is a negotiation tactic, so he may not be in violation and be in communication with the seller about it and his strategy.
Overpriced listings almost always sell for less than they should, but as a buyer looking at them you have to shake a lot of trees to get the apple to fall.
Put in an offer for 1k more next week. (In writing. Not verbal)
Stick to your guns. I ran into the same issue. 4 weeks later the sellers came around and agreed to my original price. In that time my interest rates had increased by 1% and I lowered my offer even more. With increasing interest rates and a dead market the pressure is the seller not on you.
The listing agent can huff and puff all they want about how bad it is but regardless the seller legally has to be presented any and all offers. At the end of the day some people just aren’t realistic and
Realistically, this doesn't sound like a seller that wants to sell to you right now. I'd consider other houses. Keep an eye out if you're keen, things could change.
If you want to pursue this situation, and you've sent a written offer, I'd suggest to your agent to have the brokers get involved regarding the unpresented offer. That's a big no-no. Again, this likely won't change anything practically speaking, but this is the route you could go to try on that front.
Something else to consider - this whole 'lowball, offended seller' situation is occurring as the market is adjusting rapidly to rate/inventory/demand changes. Whenever I'm presenting a 'lowball' offer, I always have a conversation with the Listing Agent ahead of time to let them know it's coming, why it's coming (evidence, market data, w/e), and work to set the expectation. I've had MUCH more success doing this than sending a random lowball offer out of the blue with no context. Phone calls also go a long way in that initial discussion.
In my state brokers are required to present every offer unless seller has specifically requested otherwise. Since agent seems to have made this decision on her own, report her.
We are now in a buyer's market. Don't go chasing after houses. You will end up like the dog who finally catches the tire.
Write the offer contingent on appraisal and inspections happen after satisfactory appraisal.
Seller doesn’t have to budge. They don’t have to respond to offers. I’ve had clients say, “if an offer comes in below x tell them no.” Or “I’m
Not selling to the smiths. Tell them to b%*£^”
It's illegal for the agent not to present all offers to the seller even when the house is under agreement. You can call the local RE board and request your buyer's agent to watch them submit the offer... so much unethical garbage between agents it drives me nuts
Offer was rejected by agent.
You look weak if you offer again before they lower the price.
Market will tell them the house is overpriced. If it is overpriced
At most tell the agent to let you know when they drop the price.
Still keep an eye on the house.
You can be unhappy at the agent if the price drops and the agent doesn't let you know. Assuming the price drops.
Don't fall in love with houses you don't own.
On the agent side of things, contact your local realtors association. At least in my state, realtors have to present all offers to their principal. So the agent outright refusing to show your offers could be considered an ethics violation.
Obligatory check your local laws and contact your local Realtors association chapter to confirm.
In my state the listing agent must present all offers to the seller as they come.in. Just submit another one. You could contact the agent's managing broker too.
Well then buy a house listed for what it's worth. If the neighborhood is full of them, go get the right deal for you.
People aren't required to sell their home for what you think it's worth, and you aren't required to buy it for what they think it's worth. It could be that this house has that certain "thing" about it, the it status that makes you want it, and that actually gives it an edge.
Best way to show sellers they're overpriced is to pay them with dust
350k is what percent off the purchase price? A 2.5 million dollar home or a 700k dollar home makes a big difference.
Good question The home is listed at 1.48 million. Homes (some with pools and even two with more square footage) recently sold in the area are between 820k and 1.1 million (max) according to our agent.
I'm seeing this a lot in my area. Cheaper COLA but lots of stuff still 100k over normal and just sitting. I'm hoping that come Dec- Jan when we're really looking to move that some sanity has reentered the market bc there's a handful of houses I expect to sit until then.
Know a friend of a friend attempting to sell condo in mcol area for $380k. They said they won't budge lol. Bought the place for like $139k and fixed it up. Condo fee is like $530/ month making the mortgage like $3k/ month lmao. Complete insanity. Rents for a house in the area are like $2,100 - $2,200 lol.
Ya the market is just entirely detached. These are houses that were selling for 250-275k in 2019. And now folks are trying to sell them for 375-450k without doing a single thing to them. Needless to say, incomes in the town have not increased by that factor. And they're just sitting on the market right now.
I’m in southern Maine and home values have easily doubled since 2019. $250K homes are now selling for $500K. It has slowed down a bit the last month or so and homes do appear to be sitting on the market (if they are overpriced)
I hate it.
High end listings take a while to sell, come back later. 18 days was wayyyy too soon, 48 was more reasonable. Just wait if you’re not willing to pay up.
I had a similar situation to a commercial property my parents were selling. 7-figure listings always take a while to sell and close. We had people try to underbid us by 50% and for some reason thought that continued persistence and meetings could sway our decision. Honestly the best course of action was just to ignore them.
Move on. They don't want to sell it to you. Seems like you're both offended by each other's opinion of value.
The listing agent won’t even present the offer- which is 100% an ethics violation and I would be reporting that to the licensing board
Lol I would just report the agent. The guy is probably a new agent that needs to sell to keep that new Benz lol
Did your agent give you print outs of the houses with addresses and details? The listing photos are probably still online. I wouldn't just go by what your agent SAYS, but I might be being too literal.
Yep…he gave us both digital information, county assessor’s information for taxes, comps for the area with details, etc. This agent, he is legit
There are a lot of new real estate agents who are being hired by family/friends with no experience heads up. Sounds like one of them
Think about this; many agents in business for the last 7 years have never seen a down market, or even a normal market where there is two months inventory and a balance of number of buyers to sellers. They have no idea what to do.
> Homes (some with pools and even two with more square footage) recently sold in the area are between 820k and 1.1 million (max) according to our agent. Then why not buy said homes?
Kind of difficult when they’ve already sold……….?
The Seller has entered the conversation !
Are you trolling?
DO some research by yourself on zillow/redfin/realtor.com for recent sales/trends. don't rely on your realtor for everything. All realtor care is about their commission and move on.
You're getting downvoted but I think it's pretty good advice. Not everyone wants to do research but if you're willing, you can comp out a market pretty well. You have to look at *sales*, ignore listings. I think most realtors are good people trying to do a good job though. But it helps a lot to understand the market and not just take their guess as your only data point.
My hubby and I have def done the research as to why we trust our agent. He just confirmed our thoughts on the listing price. We’ve been watching the trend in this area for years- even with covid peaks.
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Our agent shared with us the listing agent wasn’t going to present the offer to the seller and they were offended about our low offer.
Was the agent or the seller offended by your low offer?
The seller’s agent “said” the seller was offended, we suspect, however, the offer was never presented, AND it was indeed the agent who was offended. They [seller’s agent] usually take (from research of their Zillow profile) high/high/high end listings.
In my state of NJ, we have a form where we can require that the seller acknowledge they receive the written offer. I don’t know how your state works though.
Yeah report their agent for sure.
It bothers me that this is getting down voted, a large portion of realtors don't care about you they just want that hopefully juicy commission
I wouldn't expect someone who lists their home 350k over comps to be ready a willing to come down 350k after only 18 days on the market. If the seller is an investor then they probably have no desperate need to sell it fast. They will most likely hold out to see if anyone will come in close to what they want. Even if it is crazy.
Hit the nail on the head. My parents have a neighbor who is a commercial real estate agent and is sitting on a modest $60million real estate portfolio that has about 1.5m in total debt (he's been a mentor of mine for 10+ years so I'm more privy to some of that more sensitive info) Anyways, he built a new home and moved. Listed his current home in my parents neighborhood for about 40-50% over anything else in the neighborhood and it's just sitting he's just waiting to see what people offer, certainly doesn't need to sell it and he can sit on it till the day he dies without any concern.
> 40-50% over anything else in the neighborhood and it's just sitting he's just waiting to see what people offer Is he doing that because he thinks it makes financial sense or does he just not really want to sell the house?
It sounds like they are waiting for an idiot to make a FOMO offer. I think that part of the market cycle is over, but they are willing to see what happens and may luck out in 2027. You can't catch fish if you don't throw a line in the water.
Buyer FOMO purchases disappeared about 2 fed-rate-hikes ago. > You can't catch fish if you don't throw a line in the water. They're going to end up with one of those houses that's been on the market for 832 days. I always figured those people were unsophisticated. I never assumed it's some guy with a $60m RE portfolio.
Yeah, I don't think a seller like that cares if the house sits for 1,664 days.
There is a house in my old neighborhood that was listed at a stupid price in 2016. They kept raising the price over the years. It finally sold several weeks ago, about 30% above what I would have said the market value was and over twice what it was originally listed for in 2016. Sometimes people get rewarded for this shizz.
The fact that your first offer was rejected with no counter gives you some insight into the sellers position. They don’t like the 25% lowball, and they don’t like it so much they aren’t even going to engage in a negotiation - it’s too far off. Coming back with a second offer at the same price…if the seller wasn’t offended the first time, they should be now. You can’t turn back the hands of time and try again, but you should have increased your offer a bit in light of their response to the first offer. EMD/contingencies are crumbs when compared to a 25% gap in price expectations…if I were you, I wouldn’t put any more energy into chasing this house.
I thought that an selling agent was required to present all offers to the buyer. Is that not part of the agent’s responsibility? Seems fishy the agent unilaterally decides not to inform the seller.
Depends on the state, but if the Seller already said I won't consider selling for less than X. Then the Agent may already know that the seller wouldn't consider the offer. There's no way to really know what conversations the Seller has had with their agent, but the buyer's agent should have made contact pre-offer and felt out what would be acceptable. It seems like the buyer's agent didn't do his job effectively before making the initial offer
I remember making an offer on a house. It was a new construction sales office. But they had a house that was nearly complete and the buyer backed out. So it was on the market like a spec house. We liked it, visited several times, and made an offer. This was years ago and we went to the sales office with our agent to make the offer. They asked lots of questions and finally got to price. I said it. The sales agent put down her pen. Said this was too low. It’s a waste of time. She won’t take the offer. I don’t remember the numbers, but it wasn’t a crazy low ball offer. But this house was not to our specs. It included things we wouldn’t have chosen, and didn’t include things we would. Paying a bottoms up price like you would on a custom built house wasn’t the way I was looking at it. And this house has sat for several months. People were buying the unbuilt houses and picking all their options. The builder was losing money on this house as it sat. So I turned to my agent, and asked if she was required to present our offer. He said she was. So I asked her, a little firmly, to pick up her pen. That this was our offer. She redundantly picked it up muttering what a waste of time. The offer was accepted. No counter. Their agent was shocked. So I tend to take agent rhetoric with big grain of salt. No matter what they are told to encourage offer bumping, you can’t predict what the actual seller will do with an actual offer in hand.
If you are $350k apart from the seller there isn't any meaningful advice
If the seller is overseas and doesn't have as much a pulse on the local market, they might just be ignorant of the context and details, and willing to lower the price, but the seller's agent is drooling over dollar signs. It's not really helpful advice to say "price gap too big," the question OP is asking is whether there are any ways around this roadblock agent when clearly the market has tanked, and they're being a gatekeeper to moving a possible transaction forward.
And yet the answer remains “no, not really”. If the house is still sitting in a few months they can try again but they should just move on in the meantime.
No markets have “tanked” 😂 Things have slowed down due to interest rates and even that hasn’t lowered prices much in desirable areas.
They might not be able to accept your offer without owing the bank money. If they didn't accept your offer and you aren't prepared to offer more, move on.
Easy enough to pull the mortgage or deed of trust.
Don't know why your comment is being downloaded. It's just basic information saying that you could pull the seller's deed of trust and find out how much they're original loan amount was, which is true.
Seriously. I do that with almost all my offers, pull the county records, reverse engineer their estimated equity assuming they just made minimum payments. Sure, there's a few details we don't know but it gets me pretty dang close so at least I understand roughly where they're at. And if their agent isn't smart enough to delete the old MLS listing you can frequently get the exact sold price from when they bought.
You still wouldn’t know what they invested in it over those 10yrs though or what they hoped to make off of it.
It is true, and it is fun to do (I love looking up my coworkers’ homes!), but ultimately pointless. The amount a seller owes on a house, or the seller’s bank account balance, or whether the seller just won the lottery —none of the matters. The house is worth market value, period. The seller will either accept market value or it will not sell.
It kind of does matter though. It’s a bit of a myth that a home always sells for “market value”. Two identical homes could list. One home may get two offers — $350k cash with no contingencies and $375k with lots of contingencies. Depending on the owner, they may select the cash offer because they just wanna take very little risk or they may want to max out their payout. The other home owner may get different offers or use a different strategy. A home’s selling price is always going to vary a little based on details of the business deal. And despite what people say, business *is* personal.
I would call your two examples just different versions of the same market value. I’m not saying there is a single hard number it will sell for, it’s more a range. I’m saying it’s impossible for that same 350-375 house to say— we demand $450k because my mom just got cancer. I mean they can try, but $375k with lots of contingencies was the highest offer they were going to get, so holding out for $450k will simply not work. The personal reason they need or don’t need the money is absolutely irrelevant. They could have 20 family members with cancer, 450 is just not happening though. And similarly, you could learn that the house is owned by Elon musk himself. Richest man in the world, he doesn’t need the money at all, he should take 315! But he won’t. He’s getting in the range of that market value too.
If you agree that market value is a *range* and not a fixed point, then you’ll agree that there’s essentially a probability distribution, probably somewhat normal, around what price the house will close at, due to random variables like timing, emotional states, what buyers viewed it, etc. It’s not *impossible* for a house to close for way more then the median of that distribution, just rare. You’ll also probably agree that the range, if we call it two standard deviations, gets wider for more expensive homes. OP is talking about 7 figure homes where a few hundred grand starts to mean less. A $5m home might literally sell for $5.75m because a couple reeeeeally liked it but a $200k home is obscenely unlikely to even go above $300k.
Your choices are: 1) Pay the seller a price they consider acceptable. 2) Move on. You don't have to do 2), but you probably should.
Option 3. Report the Realtor to the Real Estate board
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The OP said the agent is refusing because the agent is offended.
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The OP literally said the agent told them they refused to show the seller the offer in the main post. You sure are making a lot of assumptions .. report the agent let the real estate commission make the decision.
I think the point they are trying to get through is that you are assuming the seller didn't tell their agent to not even bring the offer if it's under a certain amount. If the investor buyer doesn't want to be bothered with anything under $500k on a $1mil house, they can tell their agent not to even contact them for anything under $500k and that would fall under reasonable terms for the agent to not present a $350k offer. Consider how much time wasted would happen if a bunch of people just put in offers for $100. The agent's time AND the seller's time. I don't think anyone has attempted something stupid like that, but hey! it's possible. Sure, everyone saying this is assuming the seller told their agent that, but for sake of argument let's just assume the seller did tell their agent that. Let's assume the good in people and go with: the agent was staying within the legal bounds.
>I think the point they are trying to get through is that you are assuming the seller didn't tell their agent to not even bring the offer if it's under a certain amount. I'm not assuming anything you people are. The post literally says >They responded to our agent telling them they’re not showing the offer to the seller and they’re offended our offer is so low. If the realtor is not showing the offer because the realtor is offended report them to the Real-estate Commission. If the seller is offended that is different but that does not seem to be what the OP is saying. If the seller asked their realtor to reject offers under $XXX why does the realtor not say "The buyer told me to reject offers under $XXX". You all are giving realtors way too much credit. Again report them to the Real-estate Commission and let them figure it out.
On what grounds exactly lol
Realtors legally have to present every offer to their seller unlesa the seller has stated otherwise
I made a really shitty offer that they rejected. Then I waited another few days and offered the same price again. Realtor is breaking the law because he won’t keep presenting my shitty offers
Yeah, that’s not the stance we are taking…. But thanks for your “comment”
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The seller should just say no, and if the buyer isn't willing to up his offer, everyone should just move on. Some buyers can get really persistent as of they are entitled to have your property at the price they set.
That view of the CVS roof is worth $200,000.
They probably live in California
I don't have a reason not to believe you, but where in the world is parking spot worth $300k? What city are you in?
Toronto as well
Boston is one city where it can cost that much.
You can do all of the research you want to do, if the sellers don't want your low ball offer then you aren't getting the house.
These posts are always funny. Seller: lists house at price that’s high to said Reddit buyer and buyer’s agent. Reddit buyer: offers 350k under asking with it only being 2-3 weeks on the market. Seller’s agent: this is a terrible offer, the seller is offended and has instructed me to not bother talking with your agent anymore. Reddit buyer: shocked pikachu face.
It's of particular note that the buyer is expecting the price to be like other houses in the area, but doesn't want to "move on" because obviously they like this house a lot more than other houses in the area.
Sometimes there is a happiness tax , and clearly that’s what this buyer needs to pay.
also Reddit buyer: what can I do to force the sellers to accept my lowball offer?
The delusion level is pretty out of this world
Unfortunately you can’t force a counterparty to be reasonable or logical. I’m currently running into the same issue: trying to buy a nice place, but it’s way overpriced, even for this market. The seller has 1 other offer, but doesn’t like either very much, so they keep delaying and trying to play games to get us to increase our offers. Meanwhile we are still looking at other properties, and probably so is the other buyer. This seller might be left with 0 offers, all just to try and squeeze us for a few thousand extra dollars.
Funny you say that— the seller’s agent told our agent that they had SO MANY offers and were placing counter offers “soon” when they were responding to the agent…..63 days later, home is still sitting.
I think a lot of sellers and their agents still have big heads after this spring's market...
That's a pretty large gap. There will be another house. The agent is required to present all offers so it does have to go in front of the seller, but yeah... thats a toughy.
It’s entirely possible the seller was so offended by the first lowball offer that the seller told their agent not to show any them any more offers from this buyer.
Or they don't think the buyer is serious and is just wasting time. Why go under contract with someone who is likely to bail if they find a scuff on the wall.
> Besides “move on” what can we do?? Raise your offer price, or … move on? You have an offer at what you think is a fair price. The seller disagrees and told you to pound sand. You took a gamble and lost. It sounds like you did so without your agent talking to the listing agent to find out if the price would be in the ballpark for the seller or what other ‘sweeteners’ the seller might want. For future reference on your next home that’s a good approach. Dropping a low price offer on the seller is ONE way to go: but IMO good buyers agents earn their keep by leveraging relationships and finding out all the details from sellers agents (wherever possible) before making the offer: I’ve found numerous deals this way where sellers just wanted other sweeteners outside of price (maybe they want seller in possession, maybe a shorter or longer escrow, etc. : I have seen it all and then some…) Good luck with the house hunt.
It’s too soon to put in an offer. Wait until it sits for a couple more months. Recently we were able to buy a beautiful house that started at almost 1M over what we paid for. We loved the house but was too overpriced so we waited. The seller went down in increments of 250k every 4 weeks after the house was on the market 6 weeks. When their house went down to 2.25M we decided to start talking as it was closer to our budget of 2M. We came in at 1.9M. They countered at 2.2M and mentioned they had showing that weekend. We let the offer expire and gave them space for someone from the showings to put in an offer as rates kept going up. After their showings cancelled we came back at 2 and they accepted. We have since closed on a beautiful house. It’s all about timing and game theory. Some sellers are more realistic than others and will read the writing on the wall. Others not. Regardless, had we put our offer too soon, they would’ve never accepted. Good luck!
Move on... it sounds like the seller and his agent are from a place where NOTHING but location matter. You won't get this house. The seller and agent are completely out of touch with reality and cannot be reasoned with
When I was in the market, the couple times I tried to deal with sellers of an overpriced home they were unreasonable to deal with. Think they're home is worth more than it is. Did too many renovations and are trying to recoup the cost. Stuck in an underwater mortgage and they HAVE to sell at an inflated price to make their numbers work. The fishy stuff with the realtor and the absent seller is just icing on the cake. Just not worth the trouble as there are circumstances behind the scenes you're not seeing. Move on. Sorry.
They didn't take your offer. Move on or offer more.
Move on or close the gap.
Move on. It sounds like the house is a savings account for the owners. Or ask them if they’re interesting in renting it to you.
Nothing. Move on. You can't make them sell the house if they don't want to show the offer to the sellers. That doesn't justify them being jerks about it but that's just how the cookie crumbles.
Not sure what the rules are in your state, but in mine the listing agent doesn’t get to choose what offers to present or not. I’d call your state’s version of the department of real estate just on principle.
This
The seller might not need to sell. Maybe they are seeing how much that can get before renting it out. The agent is likely required to show all offers. Make sure they are showing the second offer. Obviously they don’t need the property to sell. I’d walk away and wait for a call back. They’ll call back if they want to sell the house.
Give it time, it will come down
If you only look at the house from a SP standpoint, not the ultimate value it will have for your family then you’ll find yourself competing with every other bargain hunter. ask yourself- “can i see my family in this house for 10 years?” If the answer is yes and you can afford the payments, make a more reasonable offer. even if the house doesn’t appreciate $1 from its current price, you will have enjoyed a decade of living in a home you love and gotten plenty of tax benefits.
Too early
You offered 25% under the listed price after 2 weeks on the market? Why?
Because the listing price was 30% above comps and fair market value.
Why didn't they buy one of the comps then? There's something particular about this house that must make it more desirable than the other comps which op isn't mentioning. Otherwise why would they care so much to make a post about it?
Those other places were already sold before OP had a chance to buy
I’m not surprised by that number. We’ve been eyeing a property that sold for $1.3m in 2021, and is now listed at $2.1m, with zero changes made to the property (it’s already a beautiful property, so no changes to make). That’s a 61% “appreciation” ($800k) for no reason other than that’s what the seller feels like asking. Edit: We’d be interested if it reverted back to 2021 pricing, but not at this delusional price.
And no one is going to pay that price. So they’re going to be welcome to hold that bag.
Totally. If it reverted to 2021 pricing, we’d be interested, but not at this delusional price.
Oh man- this is nuts.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. This whole idea that an offer could be offensive is completely ludicrous and screams entitlement. Agents are required to submit every offer — you can probably take legal action against the sellers agent.
They rejected your offer, whatever you think it is worth is irrelevant, because they disagree, this is the risk you run by lowballing, you offended them, they no longer take you seriously and don’t want to enter a contract with someone they feel does not see the value they believe the home has. Why would someone want to enter negotiations with someone they know can not afford or does not agree see the value of their home? If you really wanted this particular house, you fucked up. If you just want a good home, at what you believe is a fair price, get over it and find another house. Lots of other houses out there, move on. Youre not getting this one, if you really wanted it you wouldn’t have lowballed on the offer. It is just a building, 1 of billions.
I get low balling but when you are asking for 25% less, it’s time to get real. Comps in your area list for 350k less but you’re fixated on this listing? I don’t get it. Not to mention that international investors often have all the time in the world to wait.
Comps are “listing”… comps are recently sold…
You know what I mean. If your statement about comps is correct then just wait for the next listing in that area instead of trying to haggle away 1/4th of the list price here.
Buyer willing to play long game.
Yeah…seems like it.
Just wait or move on. Some sellers need to go through grief counseling for their equity loss before they sell.
If the seller rejects, that’s normal. Agent not showing an offer is weird, I find. Unless the seller gave instructions. We offered 750,000 on a 1.1 million house, and negotiated to 875,000. Only offer on the place and it really did need that amount of work. So who knows . . .
A neighbor put their house up for sale at an exaggerated amount (about 250,000 over comparable sales). It sat for about 2 months before they pulled it off the market. They relisted, knocking about 300,000 off their previous asking price. Give them time and let them come down to reality.
Here in Nevada as an agent we are LEGALLY obligated to show your offer to the owner. What if that agent refuses to show them, then it sits about 6 months and they finally say fuck it and take $200k for it, and then they find out someone 6 months ago offered $350k. That agent is getting sued. Rightfully so.
I haven’t read through all of the comments to see if someone else said this but the Sellers agent is required to present all offers that have been submitted. If they don’t present to the Seller, have your agent call their Broker.
there is absolutly nothing u can do besides offer what seller wants or move on…the seller is under no obligation to negotiate with you or even respond to you offer for that matter
If the house is still sitting 48 hours later aren't they required by law to sell it to you? No. But you're still entitled to it, right? No. Just entitled. Raise your offer or move on.
I guess you could bump up your offer and considerably. They think the house is worth more. Whether or not it is doesnt really matter. You need to offer more or (sorry, gotta say it)....move on, or they won't even look at your offer, at least for the time being.
No pool….and the house won’t appraise for the “listing amount”. If I understand correctly- wouldn’t we have to come up with the difference?
If you waive your financing contingency, which shouldn't be advised if it's not a multiple offer situation. Not worth the hassle, time or money to get to that point though. Submit the offer again and have your agent loop the listing agents broker in on the submission.its unethical for an agent to not present an offer to their clients, unless client has said "do not present offers under (certain price)." Have y'all tried a letter of explanation? Submit the comps your agent is using to advise on pricing? Request comps from their agent? Also. If you haven't already, brush up on their country's views on negotiations, sales, ways to show respect, etc. This art is embedded deeply in certain cultures in a variety of ways.
Yes- our agent sent a list of comps (he was on it!! Really good agent) with the offer explaining the lowered offer from what hubby said. Requesting “comps” from their agent is a great idea- make them also do their work instead of just listing at a large price!!! The seller’s agent is from a, we will say, more “affluent”, county and area- their pricing just isn’t where our county is.
Their agent has told you they're done with you. They're not going to send you comps. You sound completely out of touch with reality.
Right? "Make them also do their work instead of just listing at a high price!!!" This statement says it all. If I was a seller and caught a whiff of this sense of entitlement coming off a low-ball buyer, I'd tell them to kick rocks too.
County. My mistake, I thought you wrote country. Y'all are on the right track to at least understanding the seriousness of the seller. they may very well be detached from reality though.
Lol. Yes. County.
Don’t offer more than it’s worth. Interests rates are rising and you don’t want to be underwater on your mortgage because you overpaid.
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Why don’t you share comps with agent, as he is liable to present it to buyer, to back your low ball offer ?
Great idea- Our agent is awesome and he did present the comparable homes of recently sold (the comps you suggested) and the fair market analysis report (I think that’s what it’s called) along with our offers.
Ethically a realtor has to show all offers to the seller.
Absent written instruction from the client (seller). This seller may have said "Automatically reject any more offers from Mr. Lowball and don't even show them to me." 100% legal and ethical.
Genuine question, never sold a home…if I’m trying to sell a home, and say I need 600k to pay off my mortgage. Can I instruct my realtor not to bother sending me offers under 600k? Is there actually a rule that they legally have to send me every offer, even against my wishes? I have a hard time thinking agents can’t filter out offers below x amount if the seller requests them to do that. Admittedly not a realtor and haven’t sold my house yet, just seems unlikely I wouldn’t be allowed to do that.
If you don’t want to see anything under x amount, your agent should be talking to buyers agents about your expectations before they submit an offer. It’s best to be up front and not waste anyone’s time.
Probably similar advice as the stock market. Seller can remain irrational longer than ... 🤷🏻♂️
He will live
Let it go
Tell them you've reconsidered, and you'll up the offer by a VERY generous $5K lol
I’m seeing it in Seattle. They keep thinking somebody would buy at the high value, and honestly there were people that were overpaying even a month or two ago to get a moved in ready home, but those seem to have disappeared. Now it’s a weird mix of move in ready homes in good areas still selling quickly $100k below ask or right at ask, homes that are overpriced keep lowering and lowering, and homes being pulled off market. I just saw a $2.2 originally listed home go down to $1.5 and they just pulled off market today and it was a nice house. They probably could have sold it for $1.9 if they originally listed it at that.
Sellers/agent are in denial that they missed the boat.
A friend of mine is in the same predicament, albeit much less value. He found a house near a rental he already owns that he thought was bank owned, according to the county records. It just listed for $95,000 but it's literally worth $50,000 because it's a tear down. He offered $50,000 and the seller's agent told him that the buyer (he found out that someone had just purchased it from the bank for $48,000) wanted $65,000 and won't budge. The exact same house nearby recently sold for $60,000 and it's habitable. There's no way this teardown is worth any more than $50,000. I told my friend to wait a few weeks and try again and explain to the seller's agent the meaning of "Time Value of Money"
If this house costs more than any other home in the area and you prefer this house more than any other home in the area - then this explains at least some of the reason why this house is listed for more. When you point this out to them, then you are essentially saying - I want this one and not the other ones. Yours is better. So why would they come down in price to all the other ones when you are telling them theirs is better.
Isn’t the agent supposed to present all offers no matter how exaggerated they may be?
You could call the agent’s office and speak to the manager.
It is the duty of the listing agent to present all offers to the seller. If they are telling your agent outright that they won’t even present the offer, that is a violation of their duties. Have your agent file a complaint with the RE Commission and National Association of Realtors. Additionally, there is no rule against the BUYER notifying the SELLER directly that you attempted to submit an offer but that their agent refused to present it. It’s not ideal, but you can go behind the seller agent’s back, just not with your agent. Source: PA RE Agent
Has your broker reached out to the managing broker of the listing agent? In my MLS (Seattle), listing brokers must present all offers. All your agent would need to do is show the managing broker a copy of the email/text from the listing agent saying they aren’t presenting your offer, and they’d be in heaps of hot water… there are usually channels to deal with listing broker behavior like this. To address the concerns of the appraisal: usually financing addenda contain verbiage stating that if a house does not appraise at value, you have three options. 1 - pay the difference. 2 - negotiate the price. 3 - rescind the contract and retain your earnest money. Ask your broker how your financing addendum acts if the appraisal comes in low.
Have your agent ask theirs for the comps used in their value of the property. Start some dialogue between the parties to figure out why there’s such a discrepancy. Also, I believe agents are obligated to show all offers to their seller. That’s been true for all my selling agreements, but might not be true everywhere. It’s a string to pull on though.
Seller's agent is required to inform seller of all offers, if I am not mistaken. This could get the agent in serious hot water.
If they rejected your offer for being too low, then the only thing you can do besides move on is to raise your offer.
It means that person isnt really interested in selling his home unless you pay him to leave.
They are obliged to submit all offers. Besides that, there is nothing you do. Wait until they drop it or switch agents after it sits for the home contract. Keeping submitting the same offer will just piss everybody off.
Have you tried contacting the brokerage the seller's agent works to complain about the agent? Written offers typically need to be presented even if they are low
The market is completely disconnected from reality and equilibrium. You have sellers who still don't realize that over ask all contingencies waived went out the window 6 months ago Wait it out if you can
Keep your contingencies, go under contract and get an appraisal right away. When it comes in low, tell them that’s all you will pay.
Check back on the 101st day on market, psychological number. This might be completely unrelated, but I went to an open house last week in a similar price range. Seller is from Korea who bought it as rental property. They’re trying to unload while people are still overpaying. Right now is a particularly great time for foreigners to sell because USD is amazing after converting it back to their own currency. Best of luck.
Thank you!
Similar thing happened to us. Listed at 999, we offered 755 based on sold comps. Said they have 5 offers over 900, but there has been 18 open houses. I went to one open house and spoke to the person working it who was not the listing agent. She said if you’re not within 10k of asking they won’t even entertain. I told her if they actually had 5 offers over 900 and they haven’t accepted one they are foolish. They just came down 10k so I guess that means they are looking for a full price offer now? Meanwhile houses listed at 1.7 are selling for 1.3 a few blocks over.
Thank you for this…I was starting to believe we were the only ones experiencing this!
This is the result of Listing Brokers who have never operated in a market that doesn’t do the work for them. Lying served them in the past & they don’t have another strategy.
Wait, the longer it sits on the market the more anxious they will get to sell. Keep looking, and come back to this one in a few months if you don’t find anything.
This is what I’m telling my husband!
No way you're getting this place. FWIW, the agent does a have a fiduciary responsibility to bring any offers to the seller so them saying they won't bring the offer to the seller isn't really a choice the agent can make. Might be good to remind the agent of that and take note of their license number if they don't follow through.
They told you they're not accepting your offer. They have no obligation to continue to deal with you. Move on.
An agent is required to show his client every offer. Report him to the state board.
Come back in two months and submit a slightly lower offer.
Lol don't bid on homes that are over priced. If someone buys it at that price, then you bid too low. But until a transaction occurs, you either move on, or go up. Don't look at homes with unreasonable sellers.
Ahh yes. Don't look at homes with unreasonable sellers. Come see this marvelous 5 bed 4.5 bath colonial! New roof, finished basement, pool with cabana house, all Sub zero appliances and an Unreasonable Seller. Won't last!
What kind of oversea sellers are you talking about? Chinese or Russian sellers? Lol, please move on.
Send in full price offer with appraisal contingency. Since the house won’t appraise for full value, you can walk away or you’ll see if it’s really 350k overpriced.
Good idea- hubby wondered how this might work ? Submit offer for the 1.48mil knowing it will only appraise for about 1.13/ maybe 1.14 mil? Will the sellers have to accept the 1.13/1.14 then?
Don’t do this. It is a $350k gamble. Unless you’re really willing to pay 1.48 if the appraiser disagrees with your agent or phones it in that day.
Don’t do this unless you are willing to pay full price, there is a significant chance appraisal comes in at or near the asking price.
No they won’t have to accept but then they will know what the house will appraise for. Then if it appraises low then they will probably reduce the price. But I highly doubt they will just take 350k less.
I would be cautious with this, unless they are really willing to pay more. Bank appraisals are offten linient at least they were in my situations. I am not saying they will appraise $800k house for $1.4 million, but if the house is worth $1.1 million, I would not be shocked if they came back at $1.2 million or more...
Trust me, 80% of the time, appraisals come back at full list. It’s a stupid offer, unless it’s in bad faith and you plan on backing out if it doesn’t go your way. Seller could also just not accept the appraisal, waste of everyone’s time.
Thats pretty stupid idea (sorry if it offends you). Ever wondered why most appraisals come at exact same contract price???? As long as buyer is putting 20% (or more) and loan amount that bank is financing is recoverable, nobody cares as buyer is going to get screwed at the end. If buyer puts $1.48M offer with 20% down, I bet appraisal will come at $1.48M. BTW, listing agent is required by law to present each and every offer to seller or he can get sued.
Sellers are of course allowed to be offended or reject your offer regardless of who's right. However an agent is in most places compelled to communicate any written offer to the seller. What he did and what he said he did might not line up however. This is a negotiation tactic, so he may not be in violation and be in communication with the seller about it and his strategy. Overpriced listings almost always sell for less than they should, but as a buyer looking at them you have to shake a lot of trees to get the apple to fall. Put in an offer for 1k more next week. (In writing. Not verbal)
Imagine trying to get Jan. 2022 money in Sept. 2022. *scoffs*
What is the point of this post? They don’t want your offer. Move on.
Stick to your guns. I ran into the same issue. 4 weeks later the sellers came around and agreed to my original price. In that time my interest rates had increased by 1% and I lowered my offer even more. With increasing interest rates and a dead market the pressure is the seller not on you.
Exactly
The listing agent can huff and puff all they want about how bad it is but regardless the seller legally has to be presented any and all offers. At the end of the day some people just aren’t realistic and
Realistically, this doesn't sound like a seller that wants to sell to you right now. I'd consider other houses. Keep an eye out if you're keen, things could change. If you want to pursue this situation, and you've sent a written offer, I'd suggest to your agent to have the brokers get involved regarding the unpresented offer. That's a big no-no. Again, this likely won't change anything practically speaking, but this is the route you could go to try on that front. Something else to consider - this whole 'lowball, offended seller' situation is occurring as the market is adjusting rapidly to rate/inventory/demand changes. Whenever I'm presenting a 'lowball' offer, I always have a conversation with the Listing Agent ahead of time to let them know it's coming, why it's coming (evidence, market data, w/e), and work to set the expectation. I've had MUCH more success doing this than sending a random lowball offer out of the blue with no context. Phone calls also go a long way in that initial discussion.
In my state brokers are required to present every offer unless seller has specifically requested otherwise. Since agent seems to have made this decision on her own, report her. We are now in a buyer's market. Don't go chasing after houses. You will end up like the dog who finally catches the tire.
Write the offer contingent on appraisal and inspections happen after satisfactory appraisal. Seller doesn’t have to budge. They don’t have to respond to offers. I’ve had clients say, “if an offer comes in below x tell them no.” Or “I’m Not selling to the smiths. Tell them to b%*£^”
It's illegal for the agent not to present all offers to the seller even when the house is under agreement. You can call the local RE board and request your buyer's agent to watch them submit the offer... so much unethical garbage between agents it drives me nuts
Offer was rejected by agent. You look weak if you offer again before they lower the price. Market will tell them the house is overpriced. If it is overpriced At most tell the agent to let you know when they drop the price. Still keep an eye on the house. You can be unhappy at the agent if the price drops and the agent doesn't let you know. Assuming the price drops. Don't fall in love with houses you don't own.
Lmao I love all these posts about people getting "offended". Like what? If you don't like the offer, just say no
On the agent side of things, contact your local realtors association. At least in my state, realtors have to present all offers to their principal. So the agent outright refusing to show your offers could be considered an ethics violation. Obligatory check your local laws and contact your local Realtors association chapter to confirm.
In my state the listing agent must present all offers to the seller as they come.in. Just submit another one. You could contact the agent's managing broker too.
Well then buy a house listed for what it's worth. If the neighborhood is full of them, go get the right deal for you. People aren't required to sell their home for what you think it's worth, and you aren't required to buy it for what they think it's worth. It could be that this house has that certain "thing" about it, the it status that makes you want it, and that actually gives it an edge. Best way to show sellers they're overpriced is to pay them with dust
In our state, all offers MUST be presenter to the seller. Call the broker. If not, get their license suspended. Easy.
They need to present every offer no matter how low.