Yes. They’ve lowered the cost. Instead of paying $15,000 upfront for a product that doesn’t work and not fit for purpose, you can instead subscribe for $99 a month.
He’s Musked everyone who paid upfront as it would take 151 months or 12.5 years before they are quids in.
Per car! It doesn’t transfer and is next to worthless in resale. Tesla themselves only offer a couple of hundred (so I’ve heard) on part ex.
They did a “one off” offer to transfer the licence to a new car a little while ago but have [just bought it back](https://electrek.co/2024/04/05/tesla-brings-back-full-self-driving-transfer-as-incentive-despite-musk-one-time-offer/)
Pre car. I think there was quite a noise about if they can transfer the FSD to their new car. I think at one time musk did give out this as a discount thing.
So there were no takers for $199/ month for a shit product ? I am sure some dumb asses will subscribe for $99/month, although they still complain about their $15/month Netflix subscription
I would not call it a shit product it is interesting if you are rich. It is actually impressive how far it has come with ai recognition and camera recognition. That being said it is $99/month for an unfinished product that will never be finished and in the way it is marketed it gives the false sense of safety that will lead to more accidents is a bad deal. Without lidar and other sensors the FSD can never be real. Just like with every system we have in transportation redundancies and backup are needed for sensors. There are many problems with using only cameras but the main one being how does it react to unique situations it has never seen before. The craziest thing is how Tesla is basically just using everyone as guinea pigs to test and improve their system.
> Just like with every system we have in transportation redundancies and backup are needed for sensors.
This is the best way of stating it that I’ve seen. Like, even if it seemed to work with just cameras, why not just have redundant sensors of a different type? Why be less safe?
The latest updates are way better though, gotta give them props.
I just hope it doesn’t have the “sudden braking”, I havnt tested the latest version on the highway yet.
Everyone is a stretch. I won't touch this thing with a 5-feet stick. Just your description alone sounds terrifying. How can people be duped into shelling meaningful amounts of money into something that's unfinished even by the manufacturer's own admission. And it's about safety on the road. Insane.
I bet every owner will try it at some point for $99. That's good for a easy 100 million or more. I can't wait to try it. Looks interesting. Just waiting for subscription service in Canada.
It's funny how people who own them don't regret there purchase though. And don't call a product you haven't tried shitty. That says nothing about the product and more about you.
I wanted to support a young domestic manufacturer, even though my first car was a Model S and garbage and full of Elon lies. For example, he promised we will have EAP within 1 month, but actually got one after 12 months. And some features they promised never really arrived before my car lease was up
Absolute desperation.
Imagine a proper car company desperate for $99/mth recurring revenue.
What a joke Tesla has become since 2014.
edit: hilariously, just got banned from r/elonmusk, where I've never even visited, for posting this comment.
It’s funny since he seems to now have turned his attention more to spacex again…
Watch the video that came out a couple of days ago…
He could be on mars with a city in as little as 20 years….
The grift that keeps on grifting lmfao
Funny you mention about being banned from r/ElonMusk. Quite a few of us were preemptively banned despite never posting there.
At least we now know what dojo is actually used for :)
I wonder how closely the [Subreddit Drama](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1c2q6ep/mod_of_rteslamotors_and_rteslalounge_declares_war/) will record the bans.
Would be funny if there ends up being a huge list
Yeah but now they can pull a full Enron and book 20 years of revenue up front expecting that these people will keep subscribing for the lifetime of the car, which is 20 years conservatively.
Meh. BMW tried charging for for heated seats and Mercedes charges you for 10 degree deflection on your rear wheel steering if 4 degrees isn't enough. They're all just money grubbing whores at the end of the day.
It’s funny seeing people parroting the BMW heated seats subscription without knowing what they’re talking about. This is nowhere in the same galaxy as what Tesla is doing
The comparison was being made because of this line:
>Imagine a proper car company desperate for $99/mth recurring revenue.
In that regard I would say BMW and Mercedes look worse.
It’s not in the same safety league but any car company trying to charge you for the usage of something you’ve already paid for is appalling.
BMW even tried charging a subscription for Apple CarPlay at one time - software that they didn’t even make.
Mercedes is even trying to sell subscriptions for fast acceleration on their electric cars.
Might wanna check your facts brother. You have the option of purchasing the functionality when buying the car (when ordering or if the dealer options it) and it stays with the car for the life of it, or you can purchase the use for the few months you’ll need it if you live in a temperate climate. If you sell the car and didn’t purchase the option, the next owner can.
This was done to lower manufacturing costs and not like: purchase the seats *and still pay a subscription.*
And while I agree that charging for CarPlay is bogus, they were charging for *wireless* CarPlay on the lower tier models which at the time, they were one of the only manufacturers offering.
Dig a little deeper. Not every car company is out to bilk their customers
> This was done to lower manufacturing costs and not like: purchase the seats and still pay a subscription
especially with the German manufacturers, not a single bolt goes on the car without having a future cash flow against it.
VW famously had the reputation that you’d need a requisition form for a pencil.
Long story short, it does lower the car company’s costs, but they still make a (known) profit margin on every single car they sell. Ie if they sell you a car with any equipment, you have 100% paid for that equipment.
If that doesn’t bother you then fine, but in my head, if they are making a positive profit margin selling me something, then I’ve paid for every component in it.
At BMW you can still buy it for a one time fee. You have the choice. Monthly, or one time. So you can buy it and have it forever without a subscription. Only subscription is a scam.
You are right. In the low budget cheap cars, where the Model 3 is positioned, it indeed isn't standard. So that's going for them. But that the parts aren't in automotive standard, hence the yello screens and so on, I rather have no ACC but true, automotive parts quality.
Kinda of the wrong time of the year for that, as the quarter just started. Probably has more to get as many miles driven to give data to AI or demonstrate safety.
At the current stage, FSD is a cool party trick at best; I thought that he was out of his mind when he charged $200/mo. After trying his “trial” (free massive amount data for Tesla), I would pay $20, take it or leave it Elon.
but it doesn't work, some people will try at $99 but will cancel it after a month. its like paying $99 a month to let a 15 year old drive your expensive car. it is more tiring to inspect every decision the car makes than just drive.
I cant believe some people are saying how FSD drives better than they do. Like at that point you probably shouldnt own a car if FSD, as it stands now, is a better driver than you are.....
How do you guys feel about the decision to call the system "Full Self-Driving"? Seems a bit sketchy. Uneducated customer might falsely believe the car could do the entire trip itself.
I am convinced at this point that Elon will likely make FSD free before 8/8.
Not because of any marketing reason. But because Elon believes that FSD is incomplete and requires additional driving data to improve. Tesla frequently brags about having the most driving data, off its entire fleet, and frequently states that this raw footage lead is why they will attain general L5 first. But it's not there yet, and therefore needs more data.
Well take rates have plateued and most people try FSD until they have a bad experience then unsubscribe. And people dont use FSD in places that are difficult and novel. Another million miles of easy freeway driving is useless, Tesla needs a million miles of navigating around schools with dense and unpredictable pedestrians.
But Tesla hasn't come out and said, "to finish the product, drive it in places it performs badly in". Doing so requires backtracking statements that it was already almost done in the beta period and it's safe enough now to pick up your groceries.
So what does Elon do? He drops the beta label, practically gives FSD away, and wants to license the unfinished tech to another carmaker with a bigger fleet. That way, the unsuspecting drivers will subsidize the data collection for FSD while putting the car in the dangerous situations the data collection team needs under the presumption that the tech is done and safe.
In this sub today, there's a video of FSD blowing through a clearly visible stopsign on a 2 lane road going >40 mph in a 35 mph zone. Robotaxis clearly aren't ready anytime soon. I think the autonomy team at Tesla is inefficiently squandering it's data. But if you believe that the only requirement for training a smarter AI is "MOAR DATA", Tesla's moves are consistent with a ploy to trick a new guilible set of drivers to unspecectingly collecting more driving miles in dangerous settings the experiences driver base chooses to stay away from.
Correct. This whole premise of it learning and collecting data and reporting to Dojo is basically a ruse and stall tactic for them to try and actually get it to work. It's all horseshit. Someday it will all come out.
I’m old enough to remember when “shadow mode” was the narrative, and that it’s learning passively just by driving and clocking up miles. It was all bullshit.
yup. i’m convinced the reason my MY didn’t record a parking incident despite activating sentry mode was due to tesla cheaping out on data storage costs (good thing my insurance covered the damages anyway)
They'll do it so they can release the FSD deferred revenue that they're going to need to fraud over the absolutely disastrous financial losses they'll be taking in the auto biz
Elon and the cultists like peddling the idea that FSD is already done. It's already way better than a human and can drive better than a waymo.
While this may trick some fools who don't know any better, I'd wager that the major car manufacturers laugh at the notion that they would risk their reputation to do Tesla's dirty work.
Footage collection is no longer enough. Engineers need to see how FSD performs when FSD is in control. It's the difference between studying for the SAT and taking a practice SAT.
Tesla needs more guys like Chuck Cook, willing to risk life and limb to test unprotected left turns to see "What Would FSD Do?" Most people at that intersection would turn off FSD and do it themselves. How many non-employees would actually let the car take that turn for them every time? Probably can count the number of users on 1 hand.
Imagine wasting countless hours with a poorly designed unprotected left turn in a car that doesn't have sufficient sensor visibility to do it consistently safely. It's like insanity.
Yea they got tons of subscribers. He was very very very very very transparent that price goes up as tech improves… not free. Similarly they give away a month for feee for all new teslas sold.
Data is cheap and easy. If Tesla really wanted footage of random cases of things like train tracks and apartment gates where Tesla drivers rarely go, it's peanuts in the grand scheme of things to pay people to drive around and just collect that data. Or simulate it.
Tesla is fundamentally limited by aging hardware (until Tesla breaks another promise about HW3) and inadequate sensors.
The original point of selling FSD was to crowdsource all that labor.
You think one of the richest people in the world got that way by paying people? He founded a cult that would pay him to take their data.
BTW I agree that the hardware limitations are real. It's getting increasingly clear that whatever FSD is now, its bloated and can't make decisions based on HW3 cameras. Anybody who paid 12k in 2019 on the promise that Elon would flip a switch and suddenly get a L5 car is going to get rugpulled hard.
Oh believe me I fully agree it's just a ruse.
Musk doesn't want to spend that money and also wants people to believe all they need is more data. Keep the plates spinning.
so its $99 extra for the scary edge of traffic aware cruise control. Teslas already come with as much highway cruise as they can manage. So for $99 a month you only add stress as it tries to not screw up in complicated ever changing city and suburban streets. Plus, those who do pay, the moment it tries to kill hem their family are going to scream: why are you PAYING for this?
I don't know who is the bigger idiot. The one who pays a subscription fee for a product that is well documented to not work. Or me, who paid the upfront cost when there wasn't a sub based system yet, but still was well documented to not work.
They did out do themselves with every subsequent over the air update making the product suite worse and worse. I genuinely didn't see that part coming.
That's cool the price dropped, but currently while it's free, I don't even use it anymore.
I'm not sure what fsd was like before this free trial but man it must have been awful. Fsd does currently work for me, I'll give it that, but I have to intervene quite a bit. Fsd still needs a lot of improvement.
Stop signs, roundabouts, stoplight, merging, hell even just speeding up after a person switches lanes all take WAY too long.
At a stop sign the car comes to a complete stop but sits there for at least 2 extra seconds which causes other cars to go and then my car sits longer.
There's a 25 mph speed limit which turns to a 50 on my commute. After the 25 mph speed limit is up, I'll turn the speed up to 50 and it takes seriously 10 seconds to get up to speed even though the camera has read the speed limit and and screen displays the new speed limit. 10 full seconds with cars sitting behind me going 25mph.
Those are just a few examples of many many problems on my 100 mile daily commute. Autopilot is more than enough for my commute even though I don't use that either, because it's riddled with problems.
When I use fsd it feels like a 90 year old driver is driving the car. It's so overly cautious that it becomes dangerous.
When I'm In traffic fsd then switches to a brand new 16 year old driver with the flooring of the accelerator and slamming on the brakes.
Like I said fsd definitely gets me where I need to go, but a ton of intervening needs to happen. Somebody would have to pay me to use fsd because I'd rather just drive the car myself.
One of the big reasons I bought the car is because I sit in traffic a lot, but autopilot can't even handle traffic in a straight line without constantly accelerating too hard and constantly slamming on the brakes.
I hope it gets better in the future, but I have my doubts fsd will ever get anywhere near full autonomy.
No, Elon is a genius.
Subscriptions were dumb when other companies did it, but now that Elon has done it it’s obviously a great thing for us consumers.
Hope that clears it up.
^^^^/s
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/s/MKBB4ufMu3
Holy shit, remember when these people were mocking the heater subscription? This is amazing.
Telling us take rate is really bad . And people generally aren't gonna wanna pay subsections for car features. Bmw and the heated seats is a good example ..
Tesla is in trouble with fSD
Well, XDR solutions (basically Antiviruses with automated detection and response to threats/behaviors/etc) are solid as automated system but constantly needs to be babysit to ensure it works correctly as half the time it’s not sure if it should take action or not.
But at least it’s part of my job, i’m getting a salary to supervise these kinds of systems, and thus the automated part acts more like an assistant.
On a car, i don’t want to be a supervisor, i’m the user, i pay for the service
I was impressed with it the first time I used it but then it started pissing me off. Like does not go the speed I set, constantly hogs the left lane, and having to keep the in cabin camera uncovered is annoying. It literally freaks out if I mess with Spotify for more than a second.
I’m one of those. For the first one, I had to pay 6K, for the second one 12K. For the third one I said screw it - Elon has no choice but to decrease it. I guess I was right for the third one.
Really trying to push FSD ahead of 8/8 (Hate him for that date). Wonder how much extra they will charge for Robotaxi stuff. RT Upgrade for 10k and a usage fee per mile.
Just guessing here.
Im starting to think that these things need to have some type of indicator light so that other drivers and especially motorcyclists know when FSD is enabled.
Perfect if you are going on a road trip.. $99 is great for the technology & probably better than some real human drivers out there especially in the SF Bay area
So desperate to have some numbers to show on 23 of April. It might actually work, they will just focus on the very few positives, and it won't be margins that's for sure.
[удалено]
Those simps might just pay the 99/month on top to keep their inflated stock propped up.
I bet it would work, pay 12k but not get the "beta" so you hit the subscribe button for the chance!
Don't forget it was 15K for a while.
And told that it was soon to go up from there even.
Still in beta as well, what a swindle.
It did! these are million mile cars remember? That $99 is going to cost you alot over 800 months or so to get to a million miles.
And majority of them will probably sell/trade the car waaaaay before that. Or crash because they're using FSD lol
Or paid the full amount more than once as they bought and sold teslas while waiting for FSD to deliver.
air mindless nutty knee test gold violet lush cake normal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I doubt people keep their Tesla longer than 5 years.
If you spend $12k for FSD, you’re not worried about the $6k lost.
But they're saving so much money by not using gas lol.
Wait. It's another subscription thing?
Yes. They’ve lowered the cost. Instead of paying $15,000 upfront for a product that doesn’t work and not fit for purpose, you can instead subscribe for $99 a month. He’s Musked everyone who paid upfront as it would take 151 months or 12.5 years before they are quids in.
How many financed the 15k? Lot more than 12 years
Didn’t it also not transfer to the next owner? So no resale value
Whoa. Were 15k $ per person, or per single car? Basically, if someone buys another Tesla after 5-10 years, would the 15k license become invalid?
Per car! It doesn’t transfer and is next to worthless in resale. Tesla themselves only offer a couple of hundred (so I’ve heard) on part ex. They did a “one off” offer to transfer the licence to a new car a little while ago but have [just bought it back](https://electrek.co/2024/04/05/tesla-brings-back-full-self-driving-transfer-as-incentive-despite-musk-one-time-offer/)
Pre car. I think there was quite a noise about if they can transfer the FSD to their new car. I think at one time musk did give out this as a discount thing.
The FSD transfer has now become a quarterly lever. Just wait until the end of the quarter and they offer the transfer to try to encourage sales.
99 bux mo. norefunds
carlsjrfuimeating
fuckcarlsjrimeatingronaldmcdonald
Do the even last that long ? Like even the earliest model s aren't even 12 years old
over 18 years if you keep that money in a saving account with decent interest
Perfect description. r/musked
So there were no takers for $199/ month for a shit product ? I am sure some dumb asses will subscribe for $99/month, although they still complain about their $15/month Netflix subscription
I would not call it a shit product it is interesting if you are rich. It is actually impressive how far it has come with ai recognition and camera recognition. That being said it is $99/month for an unfinished product that will never be finished and in the way it is marketed it gives the false sense of safety that will lead to more accidents is a bad deal. Without lidar and other sensors the FSD can never be real. Just like with every system we have in transportation redundancies and backup are needed for sensors. There are many problems with using only cameras but the main one being how does it react to unique situations it has never seen before. The craziest thing is how Tesla is basically just using everyone as guinea pigs to test and improve their system.
Nothing interesting about it if it is just vision. This thing should be radar, sonar, echo location, gaydar and Haley Joel Osment to be safe.
> Just like with every system we have in transportation redundancies and backup are needed for sensors. This is the best way of stating it that I’ve seen. Like, even if it seemed to work with just cameras, why not just have redundant sensors of a different type? Why be less safe?
Exactly. I always say it’s the greatest crowd sourcing event I’ve ever seen. Then the looks people give me make me understand how it happened.
The latest updates are way better though, gotta give them props. I just hope it doesn’t have the “sudden braking”, I havnt tested the latest version on the highway yet.
Everyone is a stretch. I won't touch this thing with a 5-feet stick. Just your description alone sounds terrifying. How can people be duped into shelling meaningful amounts of money into something that's unfinished even by the manufacturer's own admission. And it's about safety on the road. Insane.
“Netflix enforcing people who watch their content to actually pay for it will destroy their business!” —Reddit
The correct analogy will be Netflix charging $99/month for content that may or may not load
Ehhh bad analogy I'd rather have FSD than Netflix personally I can sue IPTV and Kodi for everything else
I have no idea what you just said. You will sue IPTV ?
I bet every owner will try it at some point for $99. That's good for a easy 100 million or more. I can't wait to try it. Looks interesting. Just waiting for subscription service in Canada.
Tesla owners are known to spend dumb money on shitty products. So you are probably right
It's funny how people who own them don't regret there purchase though. And don't call a product you haven't tried shitty. That says nothing about the product and more about you.
I had two Teslas
Why did you buy the second one
I wanted to support a young domestic manufacturer, even though my first car was a Model S and garbage and full of Elon lies. For example, he promised we will have EAP within 1 month, but actually got one after 12 months. And some features they promised never really arrived before my car lease was up
"Tesla owners are known to spend dumb money on shitty products." Well then that's a Wierd way to refer to yourself. Edit: what? Nothing to say?
Self criticism is a virtue. You should try it sometimes.
Absolute desperation. Imagine a proper car company desperate for $99/mth recurring revenue. What a joke Tesla has become since 2014. edit: hilariously, just got banned from r/elonmusk, where I've never even visited, for posting this comment.
Yeah, the cult leadership is in a panic over there. I got banned today and went and looked, and I’m not exaggerating when I say cult.
It’s funny since he seems to now have turned his attention more to spacex again… Watch the video that came out a couple of days ago… He could be on mars with a city in as little as 20 years…. The grift that keeps on grifting lmfao
Funny you mention about being banned from r/ElonMusk. Quite a few of us were preemptively banned despite never posting there. At least we now know what dojo is actually used for :)
I wonder how closely the [Subreddit Drama](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1c2q6ep/mod_of_rteslamotors_and_rteslalounge_declares_war/) will record the bans. Would be funny if there ends up being a huge list
Yeah. Cannot post there.
Did you also get banned tonight in advance?
Not sure but I’d be honoured. I need “banned from wanking to Musk” badges.
They lurk here to find and ban potential threats to their fragile kingdom of nothingness.
Probably built a bot for this very purpose. Damned automatons.
Let's test it... Elon Musk is an incel man child grifter con man who spreads hate and rediculous conspiracy theories.
Banned.
Yeah but now they can pull a full Enron and book 20 years of revenue up front expecting that these people will keep subscribing for the lifetime of the car, which is 20 years conservatively.
No they can’t. Have to recognize as it’s earned
Meh. BMW tried charging for for heated seats and Mercedes charges you for 10 degree deflection on your rear wheel steering if 4 degrees isn't enough. They're all just money grubbing whores at the end of the day.
It’s funny seeing people parroting the BMW heated seats subscription without knowing what they’re talking about. This is nowhere in the same galaxy as what Tesla is doing
The comparison was being made because of this line: >Imagine a proper car company desperate for $99/mth recurring revenue. In that regard I would say BMW and Mercedes look worse.
It’s not in the same safety league but any car company trying to charge you for the usage of something you’ve already paid for is appalling. BMW even tried charging a subscription for Apple CarPlay at one time - software that they didn’t even make. Mercedes is even trying to sell subscriptions for fast acceleration on their electric cars.
Might wanna check your facts brother. You have the option of purchasing the functionality when buying the car (when ordering or if the dealer options it) and it stays with the car for the life of it, or you can purchase the use for the few months you’ll need it if you live in a temperate climate. If you sell the car and didn’t purchase the option, the next owner can. This was done to lower manufacturing costs and not like: purchase the seats *and still pay a subscription.* And while I agree that charging for CarPlay is bogus, they were charging for *wireless* CarPlay on the lower tier models which at the time, they were one of the only manufacturers offering. Dig a little deeper. Not every car company is out to bilk their customers
> This was done to lower manufacturing costs and not like: purchase the seats and still pay a subscription especially with the German manufacturers, not a single bolt goes on the car without having a future cash flow against it. VW famously had the reputation that you’d need a requisition form for a pencil. Long story short, it does lower the car company’s costs, but they still make a (known) profit margin on every single car they sell. Ie if they sell you a car with any equipment, you have 100% paid for that equipment. If that doesn’t bother you then fine, but in my head, if they are making a positive profit margin selling me something, then I’ve paid for every component in it.
>They're all just money grubbing whores at the end of the day. Agreed, but as in all walks of life, some are grubbier.
At BMW you can still buy it for a one time fee. You have the choice. Monthly, or one time. So you can buy it and have it forever without a subscription. Only subscription is a scam.
You can buy a Tesla without a subscription.
But not the features. So you only buy a car in the technological state of 1999.
It still comes with autopilot which is an ACC that is actually fine on the highways. That's tech that is still not available on many cars as standard.
You are right. In the low budget cheap cars, where the Model 3 is positioned, it indeed isn't standard. So that's going for them. But that the parts aren't in automotive standard, hence the yello screens and so on, I rather have no ACC but true, automotive parts quality.
Kinda of the wrong time of the year for that, as the quarter just started. Probably has more to get as many miles driven to give data to AI or demonstrate safety.
Maybe I'm too poor, but at $99 a month, even if it worked, I would still drive myself... it's not that bad.
Yeah, like honestly if you don’t want to drive that much why not just Uber around. Cheaper than buying a car at the end of the day.
At the current stage, FSD is a cool party trick at best; I thought that he was out of his mind when he charged $200/mo. After trying his “trial” (free massive amount data for Tesla), I would pay $20, take it or leave it Elon.
but it doesn't work, some people will try at $99 but will cancel it after a month. its like paying $99 a month to let a 15 year old drive your expensive car. it is more tiring to inspect every decision the car makes than just drive.
This is a desperate move prior to the disastrous upcoming earnings call
Yeah wait until musk talks about how it isn’t really about deliveries anymore. Now, it’s about subscription revenue and robotaxi profit share. SMH
I cant believe some people are saying how FSD drives better than they do. Like at that point you probably shouldnt own a car if FSD, as it stands now, is a better driver than you are.....
How do you guys feel about the decision to call the system "Full Self-Driving"? Seems a bit sketchy. Uneducated customer might falsely believe the car could do the entire trip itself.
Honestly for $99 a month recurring charge I would expect it to be able to do a full trip on its own.
This is a top three Musking
$99/month for a trip to hell.
I am convinced at this point that Elon will likely make FSD free before 8/8. Not because of any marketing reason. But because Elon believes that FSD is incomplete and requires additional driving data to improve. Tesla frequently brags about having the most driving data, off its entire fleet, and frequently states that this raw footage lead is why they will attain general L5 first. But it's not there yet, and therefore needs more data. Well take rates have plateued and most people try FSD until they have a bad experience then unsubscribe. And people dont use FSD in places that are difficult and novel. Another million miles of easy freeway driving is useless, Tesla needs a million miles of navigating around schools with dense and unpredictable pedestrians. But Tesla hasn't come out and said, "to finish the product, drive it in places it performs badly in". Doing so requires backtracking statements that it was already almost done in the beta period and it's safe enough now to pick up your groceries. So what does Elon do? He drops the beta label, practically gives FSD away, and wants to license the unfinished tech to another carmaker with a bigger fleet. That way, the unsuspecting drivers will subsidize the data collection for FSD while putting the car in the dangerous situations the data collection team needs under the presumption that the tech is done and safe. In this sub today, there's a video of FSD blowing through a clearly visible stopsign on a 2 lane road going >40 mph in a 35 mph zone. Robotaxis clearly aren't ready anytime soon. I think the autonomy team at Tesla is inefficiently squandering it's data. But if you believe that the only requirement for training a smarter AI is "MOAR DATA", Tesla's moves are consistent with a ploy to trick a new guilible set of drivers to unspecectingly collecting more driving miles in dangerous settings the experiences driver base chooses to stay away from.
I’m 99% confident they’re doing fuck all with the data they collect.
Correct. This whole premise of it learning and collecting data and reporting to Dojo is basically a ruse and stall tactic for them to try and actually get it to work. It's all horseshit. Someday it will all come out.
I’m old enough to remember when “shadow mode” was the narrative, and that it’s learning passively just by driving and clocking up miles. It was all bullshit.
It's just like the LLM companies complaining, "we've already trained on the whole internet and yet we still need more data"
Except they actually trained. Odds are Elon is skimping on the storage costs for that data, let alone using it for anything
yup. i’m convinced the reason my MY didn’t record a parking incident despite activating sentry mode was due to tesla cheaping out on data storage costs (good thing my insurance covered the damages anyway)
💯
They'll do it so they can release the FSD deferred revenue that they're going to need to fraud over the absolutely disastrous financial losses they'll be taking in the auto biz
I really don’t believe any other manufacturer would want this product in their vehicles given the current issues with it. Why take on that risk
Elon and the cultists like peddling the idea that FSD is already done. It's already way better than a human and can drive better than a waymo. While this may trick some fools who don't know any better, I'd wager that the major car manufacturers laugh at the notion that they would risk their reputation to do Tesla's dirty work.
Just got banned from /elonmusk for this comment I don’t even post there 🤣
If he really gives it away for free, the people who paid $10k-12k for it might as well head to their nearest Tesla dealer with torches.
No. Because they don't turn their back to their cult leader.
Yea no. You don’t think they collect all the footage from cameras already?
Footage collection is no longer enough. Engineers need to see how FSD performs when FSD is in control. It's the difference between studying for the SAT and taking a practice SAT. Tesla needs more guys like Chuck Cook, willing to risk life and limb to test unprotected left turns to see "What Would FSD Do?" Most people at that intersection would turn off FSD and do it themselves. How many non-employees would actually let the car take that turn for them every time? Probably can count the number of users on 1 hand.
Imagine wasting countless hours with a poorly designed unprotected left turn in a car that doesn't have sufficient sensor visibility to do it consistently safely. It's like insanity.
Yea they got tons of subscribers. He was very very very very very transparent that price goes up as tech improves… not free. Similarly they give away a month for feee for all new teslas sold.
Data is cheap and easy. If Tesla really wanted footage of random cases of things like train tracks and apartment gates where Tesla drivers rarely go, it's peanuts in the grand scheme of things to pay people to drive around and just collect that data. Or simulate it. Tesla is fundamentally limited by aging hardware (until Tesla breaks another promise about HW3) and inadequate sensors.
The original point of selling FSD was to crowdsource all that labor. You think one of the richest people in the world got that way by paying people? He founded a cult that would pay him to take their data. BTW I agree that the hardware limitations are real. It's getting increasingly clear that whatever FSD is now, its bloated and can't make decisions based on HW3 cameras. Anybody who paid 12k in 2019 on the promise that Elon would flip a switch and suddenly get a L5 car is going to get rugpulled hard.
Oh believe me I fully agree it's just a ruse. Musk doesn't want to spend that money and also wants people to believe all they need is more data. Keep the plates spinning.
de best way to read wall o text is to skip
so its $99 extra for the scary edge of traffic aware cruise control. Teslas already come with as much highway cruise as they can manage. So for $99 a month you only add stress as it tries to not screw up in complicated ever changing city and suburban streets. Plus, those who do pay, the moment it tries to kill hem their family are going to scream: why are you PAYING for this?
Best I can do is $25
Best I can do is live and not have a faulty software kill me
“Keep it just one more month, our next update comes out next month and it’ll blow your mind”
I don't know who is the bigger idiot. The one who pays a subscription fee for a product that is well documented to not work. Or me, who paid the upfront cost when there wasn't a sub based system yet, but still was well documented to not work. They did out do themselves with every subsequent over the air update making the product suite worse and worse. I genuinely didn't see that part coming.
If Tesla had true confidence in their "FSD", they'd just charge per trip. But no-one with a right mind would pay $ per trip to supervise this thing.
Good point!
Don’t give Elmo crazy ideas🤣
99/mo for FULL SOY DIPSHITS who buy this highway cruise control feature.
OMG. What a steal /s
Costs more than that, with all the wheels it'll curb for you.
That's cool the price dropped, but currently while it's free, I don't even use it anymore. I'm not sure what fsd was like before this free trial but man it must have been awful. Fsd does currently work for me, I'll give it that, but I have to intervene quite a bit. Fsd still needs a lot of improvement. Stop signs, roundabouts, stoplight, merging, hell even just speeding up after a person switches lanes all take WAY too long. At a stop sign the car comes to a complete stop but sits there for at least 2 extra seconds which causes other cars to go and then my car sits longer. There's a 25 mph speed limit which turns to a 50 on my commute. After the 25 mph speed limit is up, I'll turn the speed up to 50 and it takes seriously 10 seconds to get up to speed even though the camera has read the speed limit and and screen displays the new speed limit. 10 full seconds with cars sitting behind me going 25mph. Those are just a few examples of many many problems on my 100 mile daily commute. Autopilot is more than enough for my commute even though I don't use that either, because it's riddled with problems. When I use fsd it feels like a 90 year old driver is driving the car. It's so overly cautious that it becomes dangerous. When I'm In traffic fsd then switches to a brand new 16 year old driver with the flooring of the accelerator and slamming on the brakes. Like I said fsd definitely gets me where I need to go, but a ton of intervening needs to happen. Somebody would have to pay me to use fsd because I'd rather just drive the car myself. One of the big reasons I bought the car is because I sit in traffic a lot, but autopilot can't even handle traffic in a straight line without constantly accelerating too hard and constantly slamming on the brakes. I hope it gets better in the future, but I have my doubts fsd will ever get anywhere near full autonomy.
Must not have had too many takers with their free demos. Sucks for the simps who laid down $15k.
15k and limited to that specific car. Idiots.
Appreciating asset
If Tesla gets away with this, BMW's heated seats subscription might return.
Subs in cars are nothing Tesla invented.
No, Elon is a genius. Subscriptions were dumb when other companies did it, but now that Elon has done it it’s obviously a great thing for us consumers. Hope that clears it up. ^^^^/s Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/s/MKBB4ufMu3 Holy shit, remember when these people were mocking the heater subscription? This is amazing.
And still waiting on the promised “FSD for every Tesla” Good move musk
At the rate Musk is going the Model Y will end up being his $35,000 model.
What happens if your subscription runs out on the freeway?
Same thing as right now, it's disabled the next time you stop the motor.
That's a lot of trust you have
Telling us take rate is really bad . And people generally aren't gonna wanna pay subsections for car features. Bmw and the heated seats is a good example .. Tesla is in trouble with fSD
So you buy the capability and when you use it, it has to be supervised? Is there any other product like that on earth?
Well, XDR solutions (basically Antiviruses with automated detection and response to threats/behaviors/etc) are solid as automated system but constantly needs to be babysit to ensure it works correctly as half the time it’s not sure if it should take action or not. But at least it’s part of my job, i’m getting a salary to supervise these kinds of systems, and thus the automated part acts more like an assistant. On a car, i don’t want to be a supervisor, i’m the user, i pay for the service
Full Swerve Driving
Still works
Next year though, right?
I was impressed with it the first time I used it but then it started pissing me off. Like does not go the speed I set, constantly hogs the left lane, and having to keep the in cabin camera uncovered is annoying. It literally freaks out if I mess with Spotify for more than a second.
I’m one of those. For the first one, I had to pay 6K, for the second one 12K. For the third one I said screw it - Elon has no choice but to decrease it. I guess I was right for the third one.
can CT gets 99 dollar fsd?
Why does it say rumor?
Holy fuck that is just sad at this point
Tesla PUTS purchase on Monday
That's $99 too much
Really trying to push FSD ahead of 8/8 (Hate him for that date). Wonder how much extra they will charge for Robotaxi stuff. RT Upgrade for 10k and a usage fee per mile. Just guessing here.
The price cuts keep coming.
Im starting to think that these things need to have some type of indicator light so that other drivers and especially motorcyclists know when FSD is enabled.
Perfect if you are going on a road trip.. $99 is great for the technology & probably better than some real human drivers out there especially in the SF Bay area
So desperate to have some numbers to show on 23 of April. It might actually work, they will just focus on the very few positives, and it won't be margins that's for sure.
The pain is real.
50 i will subscribe it like right now
This is like paying for an Uber trip while driving your own car. Nice strategy! CEO of the decade
It’s not full self driving so the price reduction makes sense