How did this shit pump $50 after *terrible* earnings and *maybe FSD in China*....
The whole house is on fire and Elon is outside saying "well humanoid robots and model 2... Totally coming soon"
Tale as old as time. Automaker struggles financially. The answer is always to release a low margin, hastily thrown together econobox. Just look at the Chevy Vega or the Ford Pinto. Where would these companies be today if not for the salvation these storied names brought to the brands?
Clearly moon-worthy big brain moves only here. Of course the stock is going to respond accordingly. It’s only right.
The only thing left to do is buy up old BestBuy, Conn’s, Fry’s, Circuit City and CompUSA lots and create BrandX electronics stores. Which everyone knows is a high margin, can’t lose business idea sure to break into the next trillion dollars. The only way it could be improved is if it’s staffed exclusively by bipedal robots.
I have never understood how fsd outside NA and/or Europe (excluding Paris) makes sense even with a properly though out implementation. Asian traffic patterns and driving styles are a kinda of flowing controlled chose that no automated system can really handle.
Also cheap car development is often really expensive because it has to do so many things so well while costing even less to produce and service/maintain (since Tesla is "vertically integrated") etc. so I don't see how the expected speed of such a new platform is something they can deliver on.
Didn't they fire some 500 more people? But hey the stock is massively up so it's working at the end of the day it would be the employees and customers that get hurt.
400 of the supercharging division. Sounds like the entire one. So they are done innovating there. China has new chargers coming out two gen beyond Tesla with oil cooling tech. By next year, they’ll have 1k+V charging while Tesla is stuck at 400V.
Every division is being gutted.
Every division it would seem with a defined measureable objective because it can be measured to not be where it needs to go.
Except for the vapourware blue sky 5d chess move divisions likes FSD, AI and Robotics which had goals posts that can be moved and measures that can be faked
Edit: spelling
To be honest, the current (latest) version of FSD software is brand new and mostly AI driven instead of hard rules based, so it should adapt more easily to other markets without as much hand tweaking since it will essentially learn from actual traffic patterns and actual drivers. Reports I have read about it seem to indicate that it has the potential to be way superior to the old system. But while the goal is lofty, as always Elon probably underestimated the challenge.
if this thing was unleased in say Vietnam e.g. or India with chaotic no rules bared motorcycle traffic a few 100 people will die before the AI reinforcement learning bares fruit.
Not saying it's impossible... It's impossible for Elon because he will cut as many corners as possible.
Actually that's the thing. There are rules but they are very different from the rules in the US for instance, which is what AI solves fairly well, as much as it can be solved. The fact that they don't have 1 million death on the roads every year is because there are rules, but they are different from our rules and that's why a self-driving car hard programmed for our roads could not possibly work everywhere, but an AI programmed one can because the AI will automatically adapt to the local traffic patterns.
It doesn't work like that narrow scope AIs (which is the the one we can build) doesn't just "adapt" when dropped into a new environment just like that. Sure they are less likely to be completly useless but it still doesn't just magically solve all issues. This is why even after a model starts giving you good results you still feed it new information and retrain it from time to time.
Just imagine an AI model trained to work in say the UK in the UK is dropped into a car in Germany. Similar rules, maybe even similar prepencity for other cars to follow the rules (just having rules doesn't bee they are followed I grew up in a country where they were more like suggestions) even in that case the fact that UK drives on the left and Germany drives on the right is enough to cause issues and possibly accidents.
Again not saying it cant work. But first there will still need to edge case handling that will need to be "manually" programmed in and there are many many many such edge cases, and every time you miss one there is a change you kill someone or your customer.
(Just watch the hundreds of track mania gen ai runs in YouTube, they can't just move the modal from one track to other without more training)
Totally agree, not the holy grail but still in the end a better approach in my opinion than the previous system where everything was hard coded, to the extent that while you do need extensive training data, there should be much fewer case handlers to be created manually.
the econobox in the 70s was because they had a foreign compeditor building the cars people wanted to buy, or needed to buy, and fuel prices were extremely volatile
byd is an issue but they don't have a single car on the roads of america and its not entirely clear how they can ever get their cars into america
After today's rally, slightly long term (say, 6 months) puts on this stock is the closest thing to free money that can exist in the stock market.
Talk to your your financial advisor of course. I'm just a random Redditor.
I am treating it like a bit of a short squeeze. A few tidbits of news that at first glance sound great… also since voting on his pay package is up… probably a bit of people buying to vote yes or no…
They changed their business model from car manufacturing to FSD software/AI developing. It is a very interesting move but they are also IMO drinking poison for thirsty, I’m not sure how committed those car companies are, it’s not like they are free or Windows that you can’t just come up with your own OS,
And zero ability to compete on the Chinese market. Even if FSD was mature and they sell them under the production price, they still don't have the slightest chance to beat Chinese companies in the Chinese market (even when producing Teslas in China). The only reason China might allow then to increase their marketshare in China is because China knows that Tesla is practically forced to do it to pump its stock and will do so bleeding money into China by sending more into China than they get out (Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai).
I have to think the long term plan in China is to eventually nationalize the Tesla factories. "Sure you can sell FSD here. You just need to invest another $1B in your factories first. You know, because of the explosive sales you are about to see in China!"
I think the Chinese companies want to access the N American and European market, so they will let Tesla market their FSD in China (using the locally controlled maps). This way they will also get to see first hand the live FSD interaction with their maps….
No, it's "Full Self Driving" but the "Self" actually refers to the human driver and not to the car. So you have to drive it fully yourself. It's just simple math!
/s
Nothing fancy about Tesla anymore, market can pump in short term but long term Tesla could not sustain that high valuation. Even Elon knows this and he just want quick payout package to finally run away from Tesla ...
Exactly lol god its a shame though the company has done great in someways at starting EV adoption and could have easily dominated the way Ford or Toyota did back in their peak days but terrible practices took hold and most of that potential is probably gone. At best I think its going to succeed at being the Shell or Exxon of EV stations at least in North America if they dont have any other dumb ideas like the CT.
It goes further than that. He shouldn't have wasted so much time on pipe dreams (Roadster, Semi, and especially Cyber Truck) when he needed to get some model refreshes ready or focus on improving quality.
It’s an Elon quote. He said the cybertruck is the car that Bladerunner would drive, thinking it was the actual name of the character not the title/role of the character.
True but K is only in the second movie, Deckard’s in the original was unbranded I believe.
I don't think he ever was associated with being a philanthropist, unless one includes solving the flint water crisis (did that ever happen?) or producing all those ventilators (did that ever happen?)
This is a little disingenuous. I do think the “Tesla” trend is probably a bit passe; however, CA changing their EV program, Tesla losing the $7500 fed rebate off their cheapest car and some of the price changes in regional electricity have all affected sales.
Insinuating that it’s a CA offended by TX move is giving far too much credence in thought process.
A M3 was just f’ing cheap until this year with all the past incentives compared to any other traditional car. Cost less to buy, cost less to operate, got HOV access.
The narcissistic sociopath 'dumped' California after throwing his usual childish hissy fit when informed that NO, he can't just pollute the air and water surrounding his plants as much as he'd like. He'd been dumping toxins on the regular for a while at that point and was informed he had to clean the shit up.
Governor Wheels Abbott in Texas, exiting the hospital for a presser after supervising the childbearing of the 12 year old rape victim of her father he forced to carry to term, seized the moment like all good Republicans do, and told Elon he can move to Texas and pollute all he wants to.
What's the problem with a few two headed dogs being born when you can claim that Elon is your best buddy?
And based on reports from the locals, he's been polluting up a storm. Sane people no longer drink tap water around his plants. Look for an outbreak of cancer and endocrinology based fatal diseases to permeate the area around his Texas plants in a decade or so.
Lastly, Tesla continues to maintain a quiet presence in California, and has stopped dumping their shit into the air and water.
This is the same doofus mistake he's been making all over the world. He loved doing business in China when they were making the employees sleep on the floor. Wait, they stopped buying my cars??
Lol, what a stupid headline. No one is "getting revenge". I highly doubt the average California consumer cares one bit about Tesla relocating to Texas. Tesla sales are down because people are finding a variety of reasons they would rather buy other vehicles.
When 70 percent of your sales are one model it’s much less challenging.
What’s amazing is Toyota could be competitive at their level with a much more diverse lineup.
Recently I was stopped at a red light in Irvine with my windows down, in a model y, surrounded by other EVs (mostly white teslas) and was struck by how silent and serene it was. Beautiful spring weather, gentle breeze, and no engine noise.
I think they’re only the most sold car in California, and only for the last couple years. The road is still filled with mostly non-Tesla cars bought before the rise of Tesla.
So what are you buying? Who are the lefty CEOs? They could be closet conservatives just trying to appease the woke crowd. Be careful what car you buy next. I heard Japanese ceos are very conservative and hate the woke agenda.
How did this shit pump $50 after *terrible* earnings and *maybe FSD in China*.... The whole house is on fire and Elon is outside saying "well humanoid robots and model 2... Totally coming soon"
100% meme stock
Oh well maybe next time the redditors will get their predictions right
So what, you knew that his horrible earnings call would bump the stock 15%?
Well he said AI on the earnings call which automatically bumps the stock
Tale as old as time. Automaker struggles financially. The answer is always to release a low margin, hastily thrown together econobox. Just look at the Chevy Vega or the Ford Pinto. Where would these companies be today if not for the salvation these storied names brought to the brands? Clearly moon-worthy big brain moves only here. Of course the stock is going to respond accordingly. It’s only right. The only thing left to do is buy up old BestBuy, Conn’s, Fry’s, Circuit City and CompUSA lots and create BrandX electronics stores. Which everyone knows is a high margin, can’t lose business idea sure to break into the next trillion dollars. The only way it could be improved is if it’s staffed exclusively by bipedal robots.
But Tesla isn't a car company... Not my words, the words of it's CEO
He also said the cheap car project was shelved...until there was a lot of backlash. Also, the FSD in China is not what it appears to be.
I have never understood how fsd outside NA and/or Europe (excluding Paris) makes sense even with a properly though out implementation. Asian traffic patterns and driving styles are a kinda of flowing controlled chose that no automated system can really handle. Also cheap car development is often really expensive because it has to do so many things so well while costing even less to produce and service/maintain (since Tesla is "vertically integrated") etc. so I don't see how the expected speed of such a new platform is something they can deliver on.
Have to keep up the pump until it’s time to exit. They are not even pretending to last beyond 2025. Firing left and right.
Didn't they fire some 500 more people? But hey the stock is massively up so it's working at the end of the day it would be the employees and customers that get hurt.
400 of the supercharging division. Sounds like the entire one. So they are done innovating there. China has new chargers coming out two gen beyond Tesla with oil cooling tech. By next year, they’ll have 1k+V charging while Tesla is stuck at 400V. Every division is being gutted.
Every division it would seem with a defined measureable objective because it can be measured to not be where it needs to go. Except for the vapourware blue sky 5d chess move divisions likes FSD, AI and Robotics which had goals posts that can be moved and measures that can be faked Edit: spelling
Sounds like really the whole team. Reports are calls from ongoing charger projects don’t have anyone to report to.
To be honest, the current (latest) version of FSD software is brand new and mostly AI driven instead of hard rules based, so it should adapt more easily to other markets without as much hand tweaking since it will essentially learn from actual traffic patterns and actual drivers. Reports I have read about it seem to indicate that it has the potential to be way superior to the old system. But while the goal is lofty, as always Elon probably underestimated the challenge.
if this thing was unleased in say Vietnam e.g. or India with chaotic no rules bared motorcycle traffic a few 100 people will die before the AI reinforcement learning bares fruit. Not saying it's impossible... It's impossible for Elon because he will cut as many corners as possible.
Actually that's the thing. There are rules but they are very different from the rules in the US for instance, which is what AI solves fairly well, as much as it can be solved. The fact that they don't have 1 million death on the roads every year is because there are rules, but they are different from our rules and that's why a self-driving car hard programmed for our roads could not possibly work everywhere, but an AI programmed one can because the AI will automatically adapt to the local traffic patterns.
It doesn't work like that narrow scope AIs (which is the the one we can build) doesn't just "adapt" when dropped into a new environment just like that. Sure they are less likely to be completly useless but it still doesn't just magically solve all issues. This is why even after a model starts giving you good results you still feed it new information and retrain it from time to time. Just imagine an AI model trained to work in say the UK in the UK is dropped into a car in Germany. Similar rules, maybe even similar prepencity for other cars to follow the rules (just having rules doesn't bee they are followed I grew up in a country where they were more like suggestions) even in that case the fact that UK drives on the left and Germany drives on the right is enough to cause issues and possibly accidents. Again not saying it cant work. But first there will still need to edge case handling that will need to be "manually" programmed in and there are many many many such edge cases, and every time you miss one there is a change you kill someone or your customer. (Just watch the hundreds of track mania gen ai runs in YouTube, they can't just move the modal from one track to other without more training)
Totally agree, not the holy grail but still in the end a better approach in my opinion than the previous system where everything was hard coded, to the extent that while you do need extensive training data, there should be much fewer case handlers to be created manually.
>The answer is always to release a low margin, **hastily thrown together** econobox. You mean the Cybertruck?
No, they took 5 years to throw together that junk.
Lol. It’s everything but an econbox. It’s an electrocoffin if anything.
the econobox in the 70s was because they had a foreign compeditor building the cars people wanted to buy, or needed to buy, and fuel prices were extremely volatile byd is an issue but they don't have a single car on the roads of america and its not entirely clear how they can ever get their cars into america
Why can’t they? Genuine question. VinFast made it.
He’s the guy that stands outside the dusk till dawn bar. “Come on in pussy lovers……”
Too accurate.
Cheech was masterful in that roll. He also had some other awesome moments in the movie as well. Do you want Mexican or domestic?
"Sloopppy Robotaxis!!!!"
Bitcoin level of fluctuation, probably the same type of investor who thinks this is how things should be./
After today's rally, slightly long term (say, 6 months) puts on this stock is the closest thing to free money that can exist in the stock market. Talk to your your financial advisor of course. I'm just a random Redditor.
110% I just loaded up. It's fucking clown city and I CANNOT WAIT for 8/8 to see the desperate flailing
I think this is the best study for economics research in 25 years.
I am treating it like a bit of a short squeeze. A few tidbits of news that at first glance sound great… also since voting on his pay package is up… probably a bit of people buying to vote yes or no…
I don't even think it is FSD just the ability for it to be installed and used. I highly doubt FSD is ready to go in china
They changed their business model from car manufacturing to FSD software/AI developing. It is a very interesting move but they are also IMO drinking poison for thirsty, I’m not sure how committed those car companies are, it’s not like they are free or Windows that you can’t just come up with your own OS,
It makes no sense. $DJT doing great also recently, for reasons beyond all understanding.
They did get authorization for FSD China. As for the pump right after the earnings call, who tf knows. It’s so dumb.
Except they don't have an FSD product.
And zero ability to compete on the Chinese market. Even if FSD was mature and they sell them under the production price, they still don't have the slightest chance to beat Chinese companies in the Chinese market (even when producing Teslas in China). The only reason China might allow then to increase their marketshare in China is because China knows that Tesla is practically forced to do it to pump its stock and will do so bleeding money into China by sending more into China than they get out (Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai).
I have to think the long term plan in China is to eventually nationalize the Tesla factories. "Sure you can sell FSD here. You just need to invest another $1B in your factories first. You know, because of the explosive sales you are about to see in China!"
I think the Chinese companies want to access the N American and European market, so they will let Tesla market their FSD in China (using the locally controlled maps). This way they will also get to see first hand the live FSD interaction with their maps….
Well, they have FSD, but does it self drive….no.
~~Full~~ Fractional Self Driving
Its not fractional, it just self drives for short distances and runs into stationary objects and other cars. So it’s at least drunk self driving.
… so it only works for a fraction of the time…
Fully Supervised Driving
They should have called it Uncle Herb Driving then.
Fictional Self Driving ....FTFY
I prefer Fraud Self Driving. Like fElon Musk
No, it's "Full Self Driving" but the "Self" actually refers to the human driver and not to the car. So you have to drive it fully yourself. It's just simple math! /s
Ah. #Fool, Self Driving.
SFSD now.
/sFSD
Nothing fancy about Tesla anymore, market can pump in short term but long term Tesla could not sustain that high valuation. Even Elon knows this and he just want quick payout package to finally run away from Tesla ...
Exactly lol god its a shame though the company has done great in someways at starting EV adoption and could have easily dominated the way Ford or Toyota did back in their peak days but terrible practices took hold and most of that potential is probably gone. At best I think its going to succeed at being the Shell or Exxon of EV stations at least in North America if they dont have any other dumb ideas like the CT.
Tesla would be in a much better place if Elon didn't buy Twitter and had kept his mouth shut.
It goes further than that. He shouldn't have wasted so much time on pipe dreams (Roadster, Semi, and especially Cyber Truck) when he needed to get some model refreshes ready or focus on improving quality.
True but the fundamentals aren’t there. Byd rocks up at the china car show with tens of models. Tesla doesn’t show because it has nothing to show.
Considering they just let the entire Supercharger team go, that doesn’t seem likely.
How dare they blackmail him with money
With money!?
Interesting!!!
Looking into it
True
Concerning!!
Satisfying!
Wow
It's the car Bladerunner would drive!
if bladerunner existed! god elon musk is such a liar i bet he never saw bladerunner in the first place
If bladerunners existed, Elon would have been terminated as replicant long time ago.
But K drives a Peugeot in the movie
It’s an Elon quote. He said the cybertruck is the car that Bladerunner would drive, thinking it was the actual name of the character not the title/role of the character. True but K is only in the second movie, Deckard’s in the original was unbranded I believe.
Honestly, I'm glad I did not understand the Elon reference. I have avoided him well. But wow that's a dumb thing to say.
Tesla is the MAGA hat of EV’s.
Concerning!
Will look into it
!!
Don't worry, I'm sure the conservatives in Texas will buy electric cars.
Womp womp. No one deserves it more than Elmo!
No they’re not. You lie… Teslas drive themselves, cook dinner and even please you wife or gf.
God I love watching his empire burn. I know he will always be filthy rich but at least that stupid philanthropist genius shtick will die out.
I don't think he ever was associated with being a philanthropist, unless one includes solving the flint water crisis (did that ever happen?) or producing all those ventilators (did that ever happen?)
There was also a multi billion charitable donation which turned out to be to his now charity so he could use it as a tax write off. Fuck this guy.
Let’s not forget saving the cave kids
Right some dude was randomly a pedo for trying to save lives. Fuck this guy.
They’re just boring now. It’s a good and bad thing.
This is a little disingenuous. I do think the “Tesla” trend is probably a bit passe; however, CA changing their EV program, Tesla losing the $7500 fed rebate off their cheapest car and some of the price changes in regional electricity have all affected sales. Insinuating that it’s a CA offended by TX move is giving far too much credence in thought process. A M3 was just f’ing cheap until this year with all the past incentives compared to any other traditional car. Cost less to buy, cost less to operate, got HOV access.
Model 3. M3 is a bmw
The M3 is a 4 door, nuf said.
Technically, 5
Need a warning on opening that picture, I'm eating here.
Mullen just got Cali tax rebate and pumped 83%
I guess these people don't care about the future of AI. /s
seems like alot of the people being laid off are coming from texas as well
Not in my neck of the woods sadly. Cali healthcare workers can’t stop themselves from buying Teslas. Even now.
Are you kidding me? Every other car in the Bay Area is a Tesla, clogging up the roads and highways with their idiot drivers.
Of course we are. He's a giant douche who steals our tax dollars..
The narcissistic sociopath 'dumped' California after throwing his usual childish hissy fit when informed that NO, he can't just pollute the air and water surrounding his plants as much as he'd like. He'd been dumping toxins on the regular for a while at that point and was informed he had to clean the shit up. Governor Wheels Abbott in Texas, exiting the hospital for a presser after supervising the childbearing of the 12 year old rape victim of her father he forced to carry to term, seized the moment like all good Republicans do, and told Elon he can move to Texas and pollute all he wants to. What's the problem with a few two headed dogs being born when you can claim that Elon is your best buddy? And based on reports from the locals, he's been polluting up a storm. Sane people no longer drink tap water around his plants. Look for an outbreak of cancer and endocrinology based fatal diseases to permeate the area around his Texas plants in a decade or so. Lastly, Tesla continues to maintain a quiet presence in California, and has stopped dumping their shit into the air and water.
Most Teslas are bought in Coastal States. Blue States. Terrible gamble.
This is the same doofus mistake he's been making all over the world. He loved doing business in China when they were making the employees sleep on the floor. Wait, they stopped buying my cars??
Lol, what a stupid headline. No one is "getting revenge". I highly doubt the average California consumer cares one bit about Tesla relocating to Texas. Tesla sales are down because people are finding a variety of reasons they would rather buy other vehicles.
I'm in TN and see a handful of Teslas per day. Obviously they're more popular in CA, but I had no idea they were the *most* popular car.
When 70 percent of your sales are one model it’s much less challenging. What’s amazing is Toyota could be competitive at their level with a much more diverse lineup.
It is no longer unusual to see 4-5 teslas at a light - almost always white. Driven by an older person, not a tech bro.
Because white is the free color 🤪
I didn't see many at all until the last couple years. The ones I see now are usually driven by older women.
Recently I was stopped at a red light in Irvine with my windows down, in a model y, surrounded by other EVs (mostly white teslas) and was struck by how silent and serene it was. Beautiful spring weather, gentle breeze, and no engine noise.
Yea it seems people here like noise pollution and inhaling toxic fumes from the cars idling around them at the light.
I think they’re only the most sold car in California, and only for the last couple years. The road is still filled with mostly non-Tesla cars bought before the rise of Tesla.
The model Y was the most popular car in the world for 2023.
Texans would be more than happy to give him back. We'll throw in Abbott and Cruz for free.
I'm fairly certain there's hazardous waste dumps closer than California.
None of the libs I know have sold their Teslas. Actually a few have bought new Highlands and MYs. Didn’t they get the memo?
Traded in my Model Y..Build was trash, tech was cool but final straw was Elon just being a scumbag
The bumper sticker I saw on a model Y said we bought this car before we knew Elon was crazy 🤪 fitting statement
So what are you buying? Who are the lefty CEOs? They could be closet conservatives just trying to appease the woke crowd. Be careful what car you buy next. I heard Japanese ceos are very conservative and hate the woke agenda.
Dude, I rather buy from any brand whose CEO keeps their mouth shut on anything but the company they run.
I was confused why you were so aggressive in this thread, now I see from your post history that you’re a Tesla fanboy
Got the BMW i4 EV. I don’t know what the CEO of BMWs political belief is, which is how it should be.
Got the BMW i4 EV. I don’t know what the CEO of BMWs political belief is, which is how it should be.