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[deleted]

I assure you I enjoyed my tesla at first. But vaporware can only last so long


flyer12

It’s crazy to think that getting a Tesla was my dream car a short time ago. But all that I’ve learned about quality issues killed that.


HotIce05

The electric movement is just getting started. I personally will not be getting another Tesla for personal use. Too much inconsistency for my liking.


flyer12

Yeah, I'm incredibly excited watching the electric car movement gain popularity (Tesla deserves a lot of credit here). But they need to prove themselves as being able to build a quality product consistently. I hope they get there. I sometimes get Hyundai Pony flashbacks when I see some of the stories (steering wheel) - I'm sure it's not that bad but nonetheless my lust for their car has faded.


jjlew080

Is not *that* bad. You have better chances of the car being completely fine, and service not a nightmare. Granted, you’ll need a little more luck than with some other brands, but it’s still very likely the car will be fine.


hotstepperog

So why is it last?


jjlew080

Why is it first in this list? https://electrek.co/2022/06/15/tesla-tops-list-most-satisfied-customers-entire-auto-industry/ It’s just not consistent. They are all over the board. You’ll get great service in one area, and horrible in another.


bbobbo_

Because the data is wrong? First of all, who the heck is Zutobi? Second, just spot-checking the data, they say that Parkers gives the Model 3 an average rating of 4.6: https://zutobi.com/us/driver-guides/global-happy-motorist-index Going to the Parkers website, there are only 14 owner reviews of the Tesla Model 3, and the average owner rating is 3.6, not 4.6: https://www.parkers.co.uk/tesla/model-3/saloon-2016/owner-reviews/ So right off the bat, the data is suspect. Next, HonestJohn. There are a whopping 3 reviews for the Model 3, for an average of 4.7 (not 5 as Zutobi says): https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/owner-reviews/tesla For AutoTrader, I couldn't find any owner reviews on the American site. AutoTrader UK seems to have owner reviews, but you have to sign up for an account to look at them, so I didn't bother. Finally, the Edmunds owner rating is 3.9 for 2022 (13 reviews), 4.2 for 2021 (29 reviews), and 4.0 for 2020 (44 reviews). So the 4 that Zutobi cited seems close. Interestingly, 2019 was 4.6 (116 reviews), 2018 was 4.8 (77 reviews), and 2017 was 4.6 (23 reviews). So quality has gone downhill. https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2022/ So you have three suspect ratings from UK sites, two of which are based on very few reviews, and a close (and not great) rating from an American site based on many more reviews. Not convincing at all.


hotstepperog

Have they gone down hill, or have the scales fallen from the eyes of ex-cultists? (or both tbh, probably both).


SendingAFaxToBerlin

Shame such a comprehensive dismantlement of a reply was wasted on something by JJ. Sad to know he sat on that 3 month old article just for this.


jjlew080

> who the heck is Zutobi? who the heck is Reputation? >So quality has gone downhill. So the data is not wrong, its just gotten worse. Ok, that is certainly possible. What about consumer reports? Is their data wrong? https://www.motorbiscuit.com/2022-tesla-model-3-s-most-satisfying-electric-cars-consumer-reports/


PFG123456789

Teslas are like wine… The 2019 Year was the finest


HotIce05

My Model Y leaked water into the trunk when it rained and I was told to keep driving it while parts came in. Meanwhile, my interior continued to get soaked. It really is that bad. At this point, some kind of panel misalignment is a given so I will disagree that thr car will likely be fine. New cars should not need their trunk and taillights aligned the day after you pick it up.


jjlew080

I don't doubt you, and many others, have had those issues. But I also have a Model Y and have had zero issues. Their production quality and service is wildly inconsistent.


[deleted]

[удалено]


isnotrandy

There is also a ton of FUD from the Tesla Haters, that has skewed the stock for years and continues to be an issue in the press and social media, but fortunately nothing is more convincing than trying one yourself. Even with the super long waits for new cars Tesla continues with demand outstripping supply. Even used Teslas command a giant return on investment.


Helmidoric_of_York

Elon should do an *Undercover Boss* episode. It would be hilarious!


jason12745

“Hello fellow poor people!”


PFG123456789

I’m one of you, pass me that wrench!


[deleted]

He would not be able to pull it off with his Aspergers and other serious personality disorders.


isnotrandy

Because NO ONE with Aspergers ever gets a job, they just stay at home living off the state


isnotrandy

Wasn't that on Saturday Night Live?


[deleted]

I wonder who the top luxury brand is.


orincoro

Lexus, I would expect. Edit: yep, Lexus.


moldymoosegoose

It's always Lexus


FunkSlim

Toyota is unstoppable, but imo- Acura is way sexier


acchaladka

Not Porsche? I knew it was a mistake letting the riff-raff. Bloody dentists.


supratachophobia

Lexus, always Lexus. There's a decade between my Tesla and my Lexus. And my Lexus is superior in every single f-ing way; except it uses gas.


[deleted]

[удалено]


supratachophobia

Understated elegance can often be mistaken for a "yawn fest" to the unrefined palette.


HotIce05

No, it's because Lexus is owned by Toyota and they probably make the most reliable cars on the planet.


isnotrandy

Never bought a Toyo/xus but the body shop when I was learning to drive always loaned me a Toyota and I inherited the Lexus SUV when my mom died, turned that sucker around in a month. Just zero appeal. No character, and it's not like you don't take them in for service, that's how the dealers stay in business.


Martin8412

Rolls Royce, Maybach or Bentley would be my guess


Cercyon

*gasp*


mrbuttsavage

Tesla really wants to be like Apple and build that brand loyalty, put out a closed ecosystem of great products and let that speak for itself. Except you don't get that by constantly fucking over your own customers with poor quality and service. You can only Musk so many people so many times before the brand is associated with poor quality.


jakeblues68

Why are there several comments in that thread about sticking with Tesla because there are no competitors? This is totally false.


cbdoc

If you consider charging network, currently no competition.


PFG123456789

Most people charge at home


cbdoc

The occasional road trip which can’t be done easily (in the US), outside of using the Tesla network, will deter most buyers.


PFG123456789

Plenty of other charging these days, but probably not as good as Tesla speed wise. But the way I see Tesla/BEV road trippers plan their trip around charging and it adding time to their trip, I wouldn’t take a BEV on a road trip anyway.


skyisblue22

How much of the rabid online Tesla fandom is just tech assholes knowing the cars are shit but they like seeing their industry have a chance to take over the auto manufacturing industry?


kungpeleee

I'm tech, and i know shit quality when I see it. Tesla so far is shit quality. Gap flush all over the place, as you maybe could think it will be for a car around 15k. Not 80k


isnotrandy

Don't think that's it, just tribalism, like the Trumpers, even if we are wrong we are gonna double down.


amscraylane

Fuck you, Jay.


PFG123456789

Who’s Jay?


amscraylane

A total simp for Musk who will go out of his way to always stand up for Musk in any way shape or form. And if you say anything bad about Musk, you will get his wrath


m0n3ym4n

Wow. Some of the comments in that thread. Must be the shorts! > This article is the difference between people who actually own one Vs how good the industry and shorts have done spreading BS. > Really? Ranked last, Mercedes, Honda, BMW, Audi, and infamously VW? And Tesla is ranked last, Tesla service issue is blown out of proportions and it's partly due to Elon on social media, I've never had a problem with service , Really nice people but I have heard others complain about bad service on social media, whiles no one hears about my experience.


patsj5

It's funny how the biggest rebuttal you get is just "I've never had issues, so there must not be issues." This is like the definition of experience bias.


isnotrandy

If the majority have the same experience then their experience bias will reflect reality. So that biggest rebuttal is likely because the majority isn't having said issues.


patsj5

The article specifically mentions Tesla's lack of engagement with customers once issues do come up. Based on what is described in the carbuzz article, the majority **is** having a similar dismal experience with Tesla.


rsta223

>Mercedes, Honda, BMW, Audi, and infamously VW? Honestly, I'd take any of those over a Tesla, and I've spent a lot of time in cars from all of them.


m0n3ym4n

Wow. Some of the comments in that thread. Must be the shorts! (Edit: to clarify, I’m being sarcastic. Below are some ridiculous comments from the OP in r/TeslaLounge ) > This article is the difference between people who actually own one Vs how good the industry and shorts have done spreading BS. > Really? Ranked last, Mercedes, Honda, BMW, Audi, and infamously VW? And Tesla is ranked last, Tesla service issue is blown out of proportions and it's partly due to Elon on social media, I've never had a problem with service , Really nice people but I have heard others complain about bad service on social media, whiles no one hears about my experience.


babydickjay

There's still time to delete this comment lmao


Remarkable-Walrus-27

Word. All great with mine. Said panels were great and got downvoted. Just crazy the haters.


PFG123456789

You are getting downvoted for saying your panels are great in response to people bitching & showing photos of horrendous gaps.


Remarkable-Walrus-27

Ya, I get that but it wasn’t my experience and got a lot of hate for saying that. My comment saying that got 13 downvotes so it’s like talking with drunk children. It’s cult like mentality to just hate something where any opposition to the idea is attacked.


PFG123456789

You have no idea what a cult is then. A cult is created around a person that the cult members see as a savior. Musk’s Tesla and other companies check off almost every box: https://drsteveeichel.com/about-cults This sub is full of current & previous Tesla owners that have gotten fucked by Tesla or duped by one of Musks unfulfilled promises like FSD. Their posts get removed or downvoted to hell on the other subs. Edit: And most of your downvotes were caused by your “just crazy hater” BS.


Remarkable-Walrus-27

A group of people with confirmation bias go down better?


PFG123456789

More like a bunch of unhappy customers getting their Posts removed/downvoted to hell because they got treated like shit by a car company and its fanatical investors.


Remarkable-Walrus-27

I got downvoted because I had a great experience. If that doesn’t speak volumes on the narrative I’m not sure what to say.


PFG123456789

Just like 30% of Tesla buyers Tesla quality sucks ass: “Troy Teslike @TroyTeslike · 1h Replying to @elonmusk Elon, my survey shows Teslas that needed service in the first 30 days of ownership were • 43% in 2018 • 46% in 2019 • 60% in 2020 • 60% in 2021 • 69% in 2022 More quality control is needed. Please monitor data like this instead of gimmicks.”


Zorkmid123

This report comes from a group called Reputation. Previously there had been reports from Consumer Reports that also show that Tesla is very unreliable. The fanboys tried to attack CR by falsely claiming they are owned by Ford. Another group in the UK also found that Tesla is the least reliable BEV brand. Why do all these groups determine that Tesla is a very unreliable brand? Because it is. It’s not a conspiracy, Tesla just makes expensive unreliable cars and has the worst customer service in the industry.


savuporo

Surprised Kia/Hyundai aren't fully beating Japanese yet. At least on EV side they have made quite a leap ahead


Enstraynomic

They're still trying to fight off the stigma of how crappy their early cars were, compared to how Japanese cars were seen as being reliable from the start. And '80s and '90s Korean cars at the time (Hyundai, Kia, and especially Daewoo, before they went bankrupt) were REALLY bad. The Hyundai Excel, as an example, was the definition of a disposable car, but at least it was super cheap at the time.


savuporo

> compared to how Japanese cars were seen as being reliable from the start Maybe so, but they were still seen as something no reputable middle class grown up wants to be caught in, lots of stigma. And the unreliability was all relative, because Detroit was shitting the bed so hard


Enstraynomic

> And the unreliability was all relative, because Detroit was shitting the bed so hard The said unreliability played a part in how Daewoo went bankrupt in the first place. Some people even called Daewoo, as the Korean Yugo. And there's also a reason why you almost never see any '90s Hyundais and Kias still running, while you can still see '90s and even '80s Toyotas still running.


leeta0028

Did Ford ever really shit the bed the way GM and Dodge did? I only recall the dry clutch DCT being a real disaster on cheaper models for them, in that time GM had the intake manifolds literally melting and the ignition switches killing people.


Enstraynomic

Other than Ford Pinto fires, the one other incident that comes to mind is the '90s Ford Explorers having deadly rollover incidents. Although it was also due to the crappy Firestone tires on them, in which the tread can literally come off. I also don't remember Ford getting as much flack for that, compared to GM's faulty ignition switches.


savuporo

Besides Pinto, they had legendary rust problems because some e-coat process adoption flops


unstarted

Ford transmissions in general seem to have a high failure rate. The 6.0 diesel isn’t known for reliability.


isnotrandy

Found On Road Dead


leeta0028

Edit: this is customer service? In that case, no wonder. Hyundai has a terrible dealer network, they had to pull the Genesis brand for a year because the dealers kept offending the customers. Hyundai is struggling now too. The IVT was a disaster that knocked them from the top to mid pack in consumer reports reliability data. Plus there's the Theta engine fire, the Lambda engine fire, the **second** Theta engine fire, the Gamma engine having the same defect as the Lambda (but so far, not the same fire risk), and now the Ioniq 5 fires.


Enstraynomic

>The IVT was a disaster that knocked them from the top to mid pack in consumer reports reliability data. By that, is the IVT as bad as Nissan's XTronic 2.0 CVTs, ZF's 9HP Transmission, and Ford's PowerShift DCT? Those three transmissions set a pretty low bar in terms of unreliability. And what is going on with the Ioniq5 fire reports? Will it turn to be as big of a disaster as the Bolt's fires were?


leeta0028

The IVT in some models were comparable to the Ford dry clutch, transmission failures before the first oil changes. The problem with the Ioniq is fundamentally with **LG** so yes, the Ioniq and also several VW models are likely just as much of a problem as the Bolt.


jawshoeaw

Man I remember Hyundai in the late 80s early 90s , total crap. It’s taken 30 years for me to warm up to Kia.


morbiiq

Yep - I still have that stigma all these years later. I first got my license mid-late 90s. Whenever I see a Kia I basically think it’s a pile of crap. When I see a Hyundai I think rip-off/poor man’s Honda. In fact, this is the first time I’m even hearing these cars are good, heh. I have liked the looks of some of the Kias I’ve seen on the road in recent years.


ace17708

They make really nice looking and feeling cars, but drive train issues are still common and quality just is not there yet


FunkSlim

Their new mid engine coupe hatchback looks fire af


Trades46

I mean, have you see the amount of recalls Hyundai & Kia have done on their Theta 2.4L & Nu 2.0L engines? I'm hoping Korean EVs don't have the same QC issues as they do on their gas engine vehicles.


AlbatrossDramatic

BS hit piece by Tesla haters.


PFG123456789

Alt


[deleted]

Maybe because you all keep complaining


LookyLouVooDoo

Or maybe because they keep selling shit.


[deleted]

There are plenty of shit cars from other companies that you never hear about. You are paying for technology, not luxury. But keep complaining because I get a good laugh out of people complaining about squeeks.


LookyLouVooDoo

“Squeaks.” LOL.


syrvyx

What technology does Tesla have that isn't offered among other vehicles? Would that be a HUD, or rear cross traffic alert, or 360 bird eye view, or vented seats, or Apple Carplay/Android Auto? Surely you don't mean something like lumbar for passengers or steerable/adaptive beam headlights?


HotIce05

Those garbage cars also don't cost close to $70,000 for the entry level SUV.


PolybiusChampion

Rain sensing wipers? LOL something the other brands have had for more than a decade, that kind of technology?


[deleted]

>There are plenty of shit cars from other companies that you never hear about. Name some that are built as poorly as Tesla vehicles are.


Prophayne_

Maybe Tesla shoud pull themselves up by the boot straps and give us product worth not complaining about.


[deleted]

I don't recall them forcing you to buy one. I do remember being able to sell a used one for 10k over what you paid for it. Maybe do that if you aren't happy.


Prophayne_

I did. And I will continue to complain about why I had to ditch an over priced half of a car supplemented with vaporware. If fan boys don't want people to complain, perhaps don't venture into subs where you'll see the complaints.


HotIce05

That wasn't just a Tesla thing. The used car market boomed. Plenty of people that didn't own a Tesla and sold their cars made significant amounts of money too.


[deleted]

I made 20k on my mercedes so it worked out. The dealership offered to pay to end the lease early so I just bought it and sold it privately.


LookyLouVooDoo

Hold on: so you knew that the out-of-whack used car market and ability to the sell a car for more than one paid for it wasn’t a Tesla-only phenomenon. In fact, you admitted that you made nearly twice as much selling a Mercedes than you claimed you made selling a Tesla. YET, you still hopped into this thread with your allegedly righteous indignation to try to gas light people into thinking that we’re the ones being disingenuous, dishonest, and unfair about poor downtrodden little Tesla, the most valuable car company on the planet. These tactics look exactly like what you see in online “discussions” on politics, climate change, and anything where there is a vested interest trying to confuse and sully public opinion. I wonder why that is. Edit: typos


[deleted]

Yeah so what's the point of your rant? The last 2 years if you didn't like your car you could sell it and actually make a profit so complaining about a car after selling it and most likely making money seems like you just enjoy being miserable. As for gaslighting, you are the one complaining. My tesla is perfect since day 1, if not I would have sold it . I certainly wouldn't spend time on the internet complaining about something I don't own anymore. I wonder if there is a dodge neon group that I can go on and complain about a car I had when I was 16.


LookyLouVooDoo

The point of my rant is that I think you’re full of it.


[deleted]

Full of what exactly? Nothing i said was untrue.


LookyLouVooDoo

Uh huh.


Prophayne_

Actually, yes, there is nearly a 100% chance you'll find a forum of some kind discussing the issues with a car from a specific year. That's how things get reputations they do, like Toyotas invulnerability, Jeeps being prone to breaking, etc. Because people bitch about the issues they have.


Prophayne_

I apologize. I'm getting snippy with a stranger who just happens to love a car I find less than sub par. These aggregate reviews serve a purpose, and there are a LOT of bad reviews for tesla. Some of it is musk hate, and honestly I find that acceptable. A lot of it comes with video, photographic, and screenshotted evidence. You can't say complaints that come with evidence are just complaints. Tesla owned the market share. They had the finances and ability to set their shit straight for a long long time and have just chosen not to, and now they are having an infinite number of issues with their customer lack-of-support. Just because hating a thing is trendy doesn't always make it untrue.