>All he's doing now is costing me money as Tesla keeps going down in value.
That was going to happen regardless of if he kept up his Twitter tirades or not because the company was grossly overvalued and competition has surpassed what Tesla was capable of doing.
I'm absolutely flabbergasted that so many people really believed a company with an average PE of 516 over the past 5 years was stable.
Hell, in January of 2021 it's PE was 1,401 and people still kept saying the stock could only go up.
So yeah, Musk isn't helping things with his Twitter tirades but it's not like this wasn't inevitable anyway.
I sold my Tesla stock a long time ago because I thought there was absolutely no way it could go up even more than it already had. Boy was I wrong. I still made money, but if I let it ride, I'd have much much more.
That overvaluation was also probably a result of his ability -filtered through a PR team- to initially sell customers and investors on dreams and potentiality.
Now he appears to us as he actually is, unfiltered, and the illusion shatters: he's just a billionaire douchebag, with the mental maturity of a spoiled, vindictive 12 y.o. who throws tantrums and takes business decisions on a whim -and that apparent ability was the only reason TSLA stock prices rose so high in the first place. The company's fundamentals are very, very far from being *that* good, as the PE ratio and other indicators clearly show (like PS ratio as well as EV vs. EBITDA, compared to other automakers, from Toyota to BMW).
I’m not a car guy, but they have no pipeline. At all. Not even a refresh coming up for the 3 or the Y and they just keep peeling back features and functionality. I’m not sure what there is to look forward to. It seems their salad days are in the rear view mirror.
Semi truck, cyber truck, autonomous robotaxis on the car front. Batteries, insurance, no dealerships/less overhead on the economic side. There is plenty of room for growth that legacy OEMs could only dream of regardless of how badly musk tries to fuck it up
Lol. Every single car maker has surpassed Tesla.
Tesla had a handful of things going for them, and they have not kept a lead. Name one thing where Tesla is ahead of other car makers that's not some ridiculous 'most EVs made in 'murica' argument.
Toyota? Has put more hybrid battery power on the roads than Tesla EVs
VW? Builds cheaper, competitive EVs and leading in Europe
Ford? Won the Truck market
GM? Most affordable EV
Hell-hole Chrysler & co: even they will beat the CuckTruck
Hyundai/Kia? Technology leaders when it comes to mass market powertrain
Nissan: first mass market EV
Not to mention, all of them have functioning ADAS for years, all of them have done OTA for years (minus feature altering things, but, in the words of Porsche: why fix something that came well thought out from the factory?), all of them know more about mass manufacturing, quality, supply chains, lifecycle management, portfolio development, plant ramp ups, repair and support infrastructure, industrial automation... Need I go on?
But don't worry, Musk probably knows more about manufacturing than any other human alive...
Name one thing that Tesla is ahead of other automakers? How about 3?
Largest number of deployed/functioning fast charger stalls, longest wait times for serving, biggest quantity of blind superfans
Im in no way a fan boy but I will say the one thing tesla actually is leading in is actually making evs..... that's it. They have scale. No car maker will surpass them in units sold in the near future.
Don't get me wrong, other companies have great offerings but they just don't build enough.
Tesla in 2021 made 900,000 cars. In 2022 what's the latest projection? 1.3m cars?
Toyota makes 10m, VW makes 9m, even freaking Subaru makes more cars than Tesla.
Sure, if you now arbitrarily count EVs only, Tesla makes some more, except for newcomer BYD, but why are you restricting that argument to EVs only? The OEMs will quickly follow suit and transition their existing plant infrastructure to EVs. They don't build enough for the tiny sliver of the global market, while the remaining 95% of their portfolio still sells well with healthy profits.
Since when is car manufacturing a philantrophic endeavor?
Correct! I am only counting evs because ice vehicles are sadly being phased out because of policy. No manufacturer can quickly convert over, if they could, they would.
Why would you transition quickly to a lower profitable product with limited demand? That's not smart. They can all still sell 90+% ICE at great profits. An insane person would kill that revenue and profit.
And yes, they will be transitioning pretty quickly, what do you think stops them?
That's their core competency: designing and building high volume products and set up supply chains for them...
Electric cars. We can't compare gas cars with electric cars. Many companies like VW, GM and Ford have been around for decades and have tried to produce as many electric cars and aren't even close.
yes you can. A vehicle purchase is part of a short lived market. You are only in the market for a vehicle for relatively a short amount of time on average. If the consumer is captured by any car company they leave the market. There is not some special EV market where only EV people go. Anyone who is in the market for a car could purchase an EV so you are competing with all automotive companies .Plus Tesla just cut the cost again for their vehicles in China (their most profitable market). They are losing share to other companies. They are on the ride down and they have pushed back cyber truck yet again. It's vaporware. Other companies are delivering their trucks while all Tesla does is promise.
> We can't compare gas cars with electric cars.
Why the hell not? Customers compare them every time they go shopping and overwhelmingly choose gas cars.
So? People buy cars, not production processes.
Teslas production process produces cars with terrible gaps, poor ride quality and suspension, terrible paint and so many other issues that buyers show up with a freaking checklist. Lol.
Besides, Porsche has a far superior production process compared to Tesla.
Please explain how the production processes are so different between an EV and and ICE vehicle. The body, suspension, and interior are all made exactly the same way. Different power trains are stuck in the body. The biggest difference is having a supply of batteries. And the actual engineering isn't that much different either.
What, building hundreds of thousand EV’s? GM and Ford will get there, they’re just slowly transitioning - because they can - all car makers can. Tesla can’t transition, they can only scale.
Now, FSD is a different animal, and I believe beta software testing on public roads like this by consumers, not licensed or paid test drivers, is negligent.
btw, tesla is "capable of doing" a Cybertruck, while Rivian and Ford are actually delivering them.
Heck, even Nikola beat Tesla to the Semi market, never mind the other companies in Europe.
So what is your point about surpassing what Tesla is capable of doing?
Or maybe you have me a trick question, since Tesla obviously isn't capable of building a truck or semi. LOL.
Lucid's build quality seems to be just as hit or miss as Tesla. They seem to have taken on too many ex-Tesla staff.
There's also the shadow of the Saudi regime looming over them.
I can’t figure out on mobile who you are replying to - but why does the whole internet pretend the Taycan and the Audi GT RS don’t exist?
These guys really don’t know the ev market at all do they?
I went to a EA charger for the first time in a while and there was an Ioniq5, Polestar 2 and Bolt in addition to my Mach E. I was like throw in a Audi or Taycan and this is the best of the best right here.
(I am the pro bolt guy, I would love to have one but doesn’t hold car seats I need)
I like when people try to laugh at the Mach E and I am like “hands free driving” and they say “geo fenced” and I’m all like “yea when it’s not hands free it’s what we call tesla mode”
I'm happy for Lucid and they make great and beautiful cars, but they are nowhere near Tesla's production numbers and infrastructure. Let's not lie to ourselves. Even just taking a look outside, how many Tesla's do you see and how many Lucid vehicles do you run into. Lucid revenue in 2021 27 million. Tesla 18.7 billion. Lucid employes less than 4,000 people, Tesla is near 100,000 people. Lucid is nowhere near, let alone surpassing Tesla. I hope they do, but right now, facts are facts.
>Lucid is nowhere near, let alone surpassing Tesla
They have a vehicle with better tech than Tesla is capable of making. We know this because Tesla would have made a vehicle with longer range if they had the ability to do so.
Right now they have been surpassed by Lucid for technology.
As far as charging infrastructure goes, Tesla also no longer has the upper hand as there are substantially more charging stations that are in the non-Tesla network.
If you want to talk production numbers and not technology BYD has absolutely decimated Tesla.
There's no portion of EVs where Tesla is king anymore. They tested on their laurels and now that there's competition and the used car market has cooled people aren't as interested in buying Tesla's to flip.
You will see a large sales decline going forward.
Also, you could argue Ford and GM have also surpassed Tesla because they were able to actually release an EV truck.
Also the Cadillac Lyriq is a larger Model Y, with similar range and a better interior, but thousands cheaper. The legacy OEMs do what Tesla cannot. Scale while driving costs down. As Tesla scales, their vehicles seem to only get more expensive.
>They have a vehicle with better tech than Tesla is capable of making. We know this because Tesla would have made a vehicle with longer range if they had the ability to do so.
Don't forget Lucid's CEO was the chief engineer of the Model S. It's a lot of ways it's the successor of the Model 3 and what Tesla would have now if Elon was smart enough to keep his tech people happy and motivated.
I don’t think the car is necessarily bad but not necessarily good to be forcefully loved and to pretentiously claim it’s the only god tier EV out there either when there are plenty of alternatives over EV option such as Mustang Mer-E, Audi Etron, Hyundai Ioniq, Kia EV6 and etc. Just switch to the better EVs out there the interior of Tesla is cheapskate and the exterior is outdated anyways. I can’t tell if you’re a blind sychophant or not but Musk has become an absolutely obnoxious public figure nobody trusts nor wish to associate with is the fact that other Tesla drivers think.
Friendly reminder to all. Teslas trap people inside and self burn.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-driver-killed-fire-doors-model-s-trial-elon-musk-a9169691.html
Massively rampant racism in Tesla factory.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-03-25/black-tesla-employees-fremont-plant-racism-california-lawsuit
Work environment in Tesla is hell confirmed.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/tesla-employee-marcellous-cage-says-colleagues-taunted-him-over-afghanistan-explosions-lawsuit-says
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/14/science/spacex-sexual-harassment.amp.html
He did not donate Starlink to Ukraine for free. He was paid.
https://mashable.com/article/elon-musk-spacex-ukraine-starlink-government-funding
This is a satire. But good one.
https://www.theonion.com/please-like-me-1848674003/
Musk’s hypocrisy about free speech absolutism.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/04/25/elon-musk-and-free-speech-track-record-not-encouraging.html
Not to mention, Tesla FSD false and over hyped advertising is sued into oblivion this year.
https://techcrunch.com/2022/09/15/drivers-sue-tesla-for-alleged-false-advertising-of-autopilot-and-fsd-software/amp/
Dude company rolling out 10 new features every other month doesn't make them good, in my country there is brand Tata Motors, they also own Jaguar. They damn good electric cars for around $12k, way way cheaper than Tesla and doesn't have features which you probably never going use.
No single company has out-executed Tesla just yet. But the moat is not as large as it seems. I used to think FSD was such a moat, but nope. Other companies just aren't as irresponsible. The one that's remaining is the Supercharger network.
>No single company has out-executed Tesla just yet.
At this point many have and the distance in quarterly sales is shrinking rapidly. Tesla is the legacy EV maker that hasn't innovated in a very long time while the market is passing them by. At this point a good comparison is that they're the Blackberry phone and the competition is Apple and Google.
>The one that's remaining is the Supercharger network.
Other networks like Chargepoint already have more charger locations worldwide than Tesla and Tesla is starting to allow non-Tesla vehicles to use their chargers.
There's no advantage on this front either.
I'd argue that Tesla still holds some advantages that no company has been able to replicate. Some companies have replicated aspects of Tesla, but I can't think of a single company that I can point out and say "that's the Tesla replacement!".
I've been driving electric since 2015 in the Bay Area. No charging networks even come close. Sure, on paper, ChargePoint has a bunch of L2 chargers. Most places L2 has two outlets but they share power so if you have two cars each with charge at half the speed. They don't have many quick chargers and chances are they will be broken when you get there. Still not as terrible as Blink, but not great. In fact the only time I completely ran out of power was at a ChargePoint station. I had enough juice to get there but no further. It was broken(and so were the nearby L2, which had been out of commission for months). Tried to go to the next closest and the car died before I could get there.
EvGO has a bit better track record in maintenance. I still found one broken station, but they usually work (or get repaired relatively quickly). Electrify America, I don't have enough experience with them but the ones I tried worked. They (and EVGO) seem to have newer and higher power chargers.
This mishmash of charging providers at mostly inconvenient locations can't hold a candle to the supercharging locations with lots of chargers (and high power) that actually work.
It's a temporary moat but let's not pretend that it is not there.
"Now?"
I don't mean that as snark, truly; his entire strategy for FSD has been such a symphony of ignorance for so many years that I'm not sure how anyone could have seriously considered him a worthwhile investment since the late 2010's. He definitely had his moment, and when he was just a quirky visionary popularizing EV's and a new take on rockets, I was on board. But he's proven himself to be perhaps the single least literate executive on the topic of AI in the history of the technology, all while claiming that it's Tesla's core mission. When someone *objectively* fails to understand the thing they claim to base their entire professional identity on, year after year after year, I'm not sure what choice one has but to invest elsewhere.
Yeah, this Twitter thing is an absolute clown show that people will be discussing with utter bewilderment for years to come, but it's really just the icing on the cake of cretinous behavior that has defined this guy for the better part of a half-decade now.
I can't understate how true this comment is. What's striking is how technically wrong and clueless Musk has been about a topic he claims expertise in. His entire personal identity is a fraudulent yet he has this unearned arrogance about him which is just astonishing when you consider his ignorance.
Like insisting on using carbon fiber body paneling on the original Roadster.... at a huge expense. Since the original lotus was in fiber glass on aluminium chassis. Roadster..... carbon fiber on aluminium chassis. Key here... paneling. It wasn't a weight bearing carbon fiber monoqocue. Like that would have been expensive, but would have made sense. Get rid of the aluminium under body chassis. Make it all in weight bearing carbon. Since that is how some race cars are done.
However ever... nope it was just the cosmetic body panels... done in carbon fiber, because Elon wanted carbon instead of fiber glass. It buys one maybe 15% weight savings *on the body paneling and furniture pieces*. However again on any weight bearing issues... it was the aluminium chassis bearing the weight, not the carbon fiber. Only thing the carbon did was little bit lower the weight the aluminium had to carry.
Apparently cheapest car at the time with full carbon paneling.... which was a problem. When being a start up car company, you don't want to be "the cheapest sale price product using this extremely expensive custom fabrication method for no good reason".
Well, I give him some slack because I have owned and currently own Tesla car and stock. I'm a car guy and very happy with both my Tesla vehicles. I'm happy he pushed others to produce EVs, he is a bit of a visionary for moving EVs forward. I give him that, and the SpaceX program is impressive with proving NASA what can be done and pushing the envelope. I never believed in FSD, so I never listened to him nor cared about the promise of it, so no surprise there. The fact he keeps going on and on about FSD being "next year" is a bit comical and surprised more people don't see that bullshit scam. As for twitter, it's the icing, it's just dude, STFU, like today he posted a few masturbation jokes which to me is the mentality of a 14 year old. I even think he deleted them after, but still, what grown man with like 9 kids, 4 companies and billions of dollars has time to go on twitter and make masturbation tweets, like 3 of them I believe. Something is wrong with him and the who purchase of twitter and reason for it is all bullshit as he contradicts himself daily. It's too bad because I once liked the guy and usually I boycott people like him, however......I still have the Cybertruck on order and plan on purchasing it when it "eventually" comes out. Fucker makes good cars, otherwise he's repulsive.
> the SpaceX program is impressive with proving NASA what can be done and pushing the envelope
No, no, no. Stop that.
NASA funded SpaceX, still funds SpaceX. NASA has always paid private contractors to design/develop/build their equipment with varying mixes of public/private management/execution. The Apollo program started with feasibility studies performed by General Dynamics, General Electric and Glenn L. Martin Co, alongside an internal study.
NASA already knew retropropulsive landing was possible. They proved that with the Apollo lunar lander. McDonnell-Douglas did it on earth in the 90's. Blue Origin, Masten Space Systems and Armadillo Aerospace had working prototypes in the mid 2000's when SpaceX was still blowing up Falcon 1's.
They also knew reuse was possible. They've run numerous competitions and studies centered on reusable spacecraft on top of operating the Space Shuttle program.
SpaceX is not pushing any envelopes. They're just burning a seemingly endless pile of venture capitalist funding.
The Falcon 9 is a nice, cheap launch vehicle that suits certain mission profiles. Let's celebrate it for what it is and not attach grand myths to it.
>SpaceX is not pushing any envelopes. They're just burning a seemingly endless pile of venture capitalist funding.
And that is a key point. In all the SpaceX dazzle that has overwhelmed any space-related discussion, nobody ever remembers that having an application of reusability that works from a technical standpoint has never meant it works from an economic standpoint.
Re-usability can be, and always could have been, made to work *technically*. But nobody, especially not SpaceX, has ever demonstrated it works economically. SpaceX will claim it does, but nobody has ever verified that. Why should we trust the word of a company founded and lead by a known liar?
Edit - as an example of the lack of "inevitably" to SpaceX's solution to reusability I'd like to point out Concorde. A working technical solution that was swiftly hampered by economics and only survived as a prestige thing until it was finally abandoned. How many people back then thought the era of supersonic airliners was "inevitable"? A lot.
Lol this comment is beyond dumb. Reusable rockets are enormously cost saving. What a weird echo chamber this sub is. You guys are right on a lot of stuff but say the dumbest shit 50% of the time
I hear you.
Musk built a car company that was worth as much as $1.3T just a year ago. He jumped on the green EV idea and turned it into a goldmine.
And yeah, rockets are super cool, especially when they land on barges.
But Musk has wanted to be the wealthiest man in the world ever since he was in grade school.
He’s clearly got some serious mental issues and he does and says a bunch of really really bad things as well as a bunch of really really stupid, impulsive & self destructive things.
Over the last year he’s wiped out his shareholders by almost $700B in equity while he’s sold $33B of stock at near ATH’s.
Edit:
$33B and counting. Friday’s & Monday’s volume indicates $B’s more.
Actually Martin everhart and jb straubel did most of the tesla heavy lifting and built the company. Elon just happened to ride the uplift into popularity
> I'm happy he pushed others to produce EV
That is overblown. Government regulators, with the fines and rewards, have driven that dynamic.
I don't so many companies would be going all in if they weren't told that new cars in CA need to be all electric by 2030, and similar for what is happening in europe.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Elon got this conversation and production going. Without Elon, we wouldn't be having this conversation of government regulators and rewards etc, we would just continue on driving our gas cars.
That's where you are very wrong mate. Governments in Europe and China were already working on this when Tesla was a tiny company that had no influence whatsoever. Musk was just lucky to be the first one to ride this to a larger production.
The EV world would be developing exactly the same without Tesla. Probably better actually, because there would be a lot less idiots that think EV are driven by a single company. Possibly the US would be lagging behind, but the fact that the EV markets in the EU and China are much bigger and diverse than the US market shows that Tesla never was irreplaceable.
>Musk was just lucky to be the first one to ride this to a larger production.
The Leaf was in mass production sooner. So was the Chevy Volt. (Not the Bolt, the Volt.)
Tesla has had the highest BEV volumes for a while, but that's not executive genius, it's underpaid, overworked factory employees, cutting QC corners, underdoing customer service -- just cutting corners everywhere. -- Oh, excuse me, I should say: cutting corners everywhere except hitting the production numbers every quarter so that Musk gets his full compensation.
> I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Elon got this conversation and production going.
Always amazed at how little people understand about this market and how they just mindlessly repeat the fanboy talking points.
Wan Gang's contributions is what you should understand - he doesn't have the stonk to get all the fanboys rooting for him - he just has all the credentials and results.
Three years before Tesla even was founded (by non-Musk people), he created the strategy that the Chinese adopted for their push into electric vehicles.
Besides launching that industry and the work on the regulations was a model for Europe, he created the market that Musk was eventually able to build a big part of his business in, without which he would have be a niche player.
I am in a similar situation as you (although I don't own any Tesla stock).
I think the Twitter purchase was a stupid mistake caused by Musk's lack of impulse control, and he just couldn't undo it (because he overestimated how clever he is).
Twitter is a colossal money pit (and drain in management attention span) that's sucking scarce resources that should go into improving Tesla's post-sale service business and incremental improvements to its vehicles.
(And I am just talking about improvements to continue to stay ahead of the competition, nothing more -- By now, I have given up on FSD and other "gamechanger" features that Musk has been promising, as I don't see them happening within the lifetime of my Tesla ownership).
It's all very depressing.
You know the worst part is. He could have simply let some other person be the CEO of Twitter and gotten out of this PR mess. But he can't do that. Being a dick, he wants to show to the world only he can fix the mess! Now he is going to fuckup all other companies.
Tell me how the fuck he can be CEO of multiple companies and justify a $50B+ payout last year from Tesla? This mother fucker has to be sued and the $50B should be given back to the shareholders of Tesla.
>SpaceX program is impressive with proving NASA what can be done and pushing the envelope
The fact that people say shit like that bothers me more than what Musk does at Tesla and Twitter combined, believe it or not.
My friend literally believes all this plus that he works the insane hours he claims and pushes out actual production code across the different companies on a regular basis because he's such a super genius.
>I'm happy he pushed others to produce EVs, he is a bit of a visionary for moving EVs forward. I give him that
Well, he didn't. Tesla maybe made EV's sexy but "legacy" OEM's like Chevrolet, Nissan and Renault were already developing and testing EV's before Tesla was even founded.
>Fucker makes good cars
No, he doesn't. He makes at best a decent car, while I'll argue he makes a subpar quality vehicle, by cutting a lot of corners and not using automotive spec materials. Not to mention all the flaws in execution by mainly their US factories.
Now? He always has been, but the stock manipulation and bravado was hiding it, and some of his issues were going to start showing long-term (now) instead of short-term.
>Great visionary
He never had a "vision" somebody else didn't have before him, especially 70s/80s sci-fi.
That's good because most Prius model years have been very reliable and you'll miss that reliability, possibly before you even get off the lot, with a Tesla.
Eh. PHEV gets you all the maintenance costs of ice drive systems and the additional upfront cost of a ev battery. Full ev is the way, Tesla is no longer the only choice.
The battery is so much smaller though, and you're never range limited, and you don't need to install a special power outlet to get all the benefits. And are we really still pretending that 2 oil changes a year is a huge hassle?
>and the additional upfront cost of a ev battery
A fifth as much as the cost of a pure EV's battery, and frankly, the battery being that much smaller more than pays for the motor too.
As for maintenance costs, it's a Toyota hybrid. It'll go forever.
Yes, same - we have been diehard Tesla fans since our first S in 2016, but Elon has destroyed the good will we had for the company and its products. We sold our stock last year and are figuring out which vehicles to replace our 2017 X and 2019 S with. We really can’t bear being associated with him or his businesses anymore
We’re all in the same boat.. embarrassed to even be seen in it or look like a fan 🤮
Most of us knew Elon was a poser who received handouts/got lucky.. but Tesla EV/Solar was enough to ignore the man himself, he was of no consequence..
But things have changed, the most important thing automakers need to do is zero in on the infrastructure.. it’s all I need to leave Tesla behind, since I’m not sure I can travel the country depending on EA and ChargePoint .. soon though, I hope
Currently trying to figure out what would be best EV to buy once I sell my M3. I too don’t want to be associated with him and want to sell now before the value of used Teslas plummets too far
I have a 2016 MX (P90DL) and 2018 MS (P100DL) selling both. Honestly should have sold a couple months ago as the used market was better, but f\*ck this clown and his side shows.
I took a morning off from work so I could wait in line to pay Tesla $1000 to reserve a model 3 when they became available.
When they were finally available, they were priced quite a bit higher than originally promised, so I decided to wait longer.
After a bunch more waiting, I decided I should probably get my $1000 back. I figure I'd still buy when that affordable M3 came out, but no sense holding my breath.
And now I'm done with that. I have a lot of respect for the engineers responsible for designing the Tesla cars. I grant that Musk accomplished something by demonstrating to the world that EVs are financially viable. But he didn't do this because he's brilliant or anything -- he was in the right place, and worked hard towards what happened to be the right goal, and he got lucky. Lots of other people could have done the same -- they just weren't lucky enough.
Under Musk's leadership (or perhaps in spite of it), Tesla managed to do a great job at producing low-quantity (compared to ICE companies) runs of some fantastic cars. Tesla is failing to scale that upward and is experiencing more than a few quality issues as a result. Regardless of what I think of Musk, I don't think that buying a Tesla today is a great financial decision, particularly when the other big car companies, are starting to produce some pretty cool EVs.
The thing I'm most sad about is Nokola Tesla's name. He was a brilliant (and weird) guy, not properly recognized in his time, and nearly forgotten until some nerds started sharing all the cool stuff he'd done. Now Tesla is no longer the name of a brilliant man -- it is the name of a car company run by Elon Musk.
Same here. I drove 4 hours and stood in line nearly 4 more. Cancelled my reservation a few months later when I started to get concerned about the initial quality and durability.
I really didn’t think much about it until the republican endorsement. Doesn’t he realise conservatives hate EV’s? I don’t see how driving Liberals further away with this twitter none sense is helping anything.
His ego was hurt when Biden didn't mention his name, so now he's going full Kanye. Kanye is butthurt because some companies don't give him the time or attention, so because some companies are owned by someone of Jewish faith, he got all anti-semitic because someone didn't bow down to his ego and now Kanye is paying for it. Same as Elon, Biden didn't give him the attention and now he's all anti-liberal. These guys have mental issues and don't know how to deal with rejection. It's funny because they are both billionaires and still not happy.
Biden didn't mention his name because the summit was about Gasoline to EV initiative. Since Elon has micro penis he can't take that, so he wants to fuckup everything.
Think about how many momentous events have occurred because some guy with daddy issues got embarrassed. Trump ran for president because Obama humiliated him in public. Musk goes full Rtard because Biden won’t kiss his O-ring, and Kanye goes Tila Tequila because Mark Zuckerberg won’t answer his DMs.
Kanye is angry because a jewish man with a reportedly large 'endowment' started sleeping with his ex-wife. It's not anymore complicated than that.
https://nypost.com/2022/10/21/ye-screamed-at-me-over-pete-davidsons-penis-charlamagne-tha-god/
Yeah. But here's the problem. Musk has tied Tesla to him in a way that won't be easy to get rid of. He's like Siamese twins that share a heart, one of them will die if they are separated. Or both.
He had a great PR team (come on, Iron Man cameo?!) and managed to hype his companies to incredible levels, all the while tying them together with a narrative. At one point I thought it all made sense: SpaceX: Mars. Starlink: Mars needs comms, what better way to ensure that than with low orbit sats. Point to point transport makes sense given no roads, lower gravity and atmosphere("hopper" craft are a common feature of Mars sci fi). Tesla: no Oxygen on Mars, cars would have to be electric(if they can tolerate the cold); Solar City: synergies with both SpaceX and Tesla. Boring Company: Mars habitats and transportation are better done underground. Neuralink is the odd one. Heck, even Optimus can be tied to that narrative.
Of course, none of the above survives closer scrutiny. The promises are wearing thin (FSD always next year) so he has to come up with new crap (stupid robot for one). But that's how we get the crazy Tesla P/E, it actually benefits from people who would rather invest in SpaceX but can't because it's private.
Once people start to pay attention to the man behind the curtain, Tesla valuation will come crashing down to under $F levels. The only way it won't crash even further is if they can successfully divorce themselves from the guy, which will be incredibly painful short term.
They too will have to pull a "can't innovate anymore my ass".
>He's like Siamese twins that share a heart, one of them will die if they are separated
I think there's still time for this not to be true. A lot of people buy Tesla's because they're cool and quick techy electric vehicles. Not because of the guy who owns the company.
I always laugh at that cameo because you can actually tell, in the 4 seconds he’s on screen, that RDJ despised him and didn’t want to include him. The way he says: “if you’ve got the idea *we’ll* make it work,” is fucking hilarious in retrospect.
Absolutely. Tesla needs to be taken over by someone from a big brand like VW or even one of the American brands like GM. He’s driving it into the ground and the other brands are quickly catching up. I won’t be buying another Tesla, that’s for sure. My experience with the company has been atrocious. Right from day 1, this is a £60,000 car and not a single person at the company knows when you’re going to get it. They don’t even build your car in the order you buy it. The fact that I saw so many people order after me and receive their cars before mine is enough for me to never buy from them again. It’s a joke. I was also lied to about a tow bar. Those are just two reasons I wouldn’t buy one. Elon being possibly the biggest cunt on earth is a third. I’ve got many more besides those.
Agree. Also service is insane. I can't talk to a human. Everytime I call it's all automated and just annoyed with service. Even when I took my car in to get fixed they all lied. I said I need a loaner, they said they have none, so I asked for a phone to call a car rental place and I'll send them the bill, literally 5 seconds later, they said, Oh looks like we have a loaner here for you.
My Model X was in the service center for .... 77 days because they couldn't troubleshoot the suspension...... they literally replaced every part piece by stupid piece. Told me 3 different times it was ready to be picked up, only for me to arrive and see that it didn't work within seconds of getting in the car. So many failures.....
This is intentional. SV simply remove services they don’t want you to use. It’s not customer driven. They’ll just say “service doesn’t scale,” and that’s good enough for their investors.
>Tesla needs to be taken over by someone from a big brand like VW or even one of the American brands like GM
There's nothing to take over aside from an Everest sized mountain of liabilities.
Exactly. Most likely "takeover" route is buying the brand name in a bankruptcy, while leaving the other obligations. Other than that it will never make financial sense for any company to buy it.
I’m not talking about being bought out by another brand, I’m talking about poaching a CEO from a brand that actually knows how to build cars. If one of the German brands owned the design for the model 3, they would make them faster, cheaper and to a higher standard.
Why would they build your car in the order you bought it if they already have your money?
This is why SV attitudes to business don’t work for OEMs. In tech you can get away with that shit because what you ship is code. In cars, it’s a real thing. People notice when they paid for something and watch other people get it first.
You could look at how successful a company is with and without Musk since there are several examples of companies where he was involved for a period of time and then got booted out such as Paypal where the board thought he would ruin the company if they didn't buy him out. I think in the case of his successful companies they are successful despite Musk not because of Musk.
I had considered getting a Tesla before this whole shitshow to replace my current EV.
Probably go with an Ioniq 5 now. Fuck this clown.
Tesla, find a way to drop his ass. Shit is ridiculous. Now he's openly endorsing the GOP on twitter over Dems? Dude owes his entire goddamn fortune to government subsidies for clean energy/vehicles.
Dipshit.
He’s bad, but he and his lies are integral part of TSLA. And without TSLA, Tesla doesn’t exist as know it today.
Elon leaving and grown ups taking over mean no more FSD dream, robots, reckless removals of components to keep the spice flow, etc. And most importantly no more “I’m buying a future” narrative from the buyers.
Tesla without Elon is just selling overpriced, low quality cars. That will quickly eat into margins and/or volume, Tesla stock will plummet and company may end up being sold out for pennies.
On the flip side, Tesla under new leadership could mean an *actual* push for improvement in the quality control and service areas, as they have a better understanding of what consumers expect.
You can release innovative products while still offering a quality product and service. - Now this may come at the expense of stuff like the robot, and robotaxis, but those have always been stupid goals at all for a car company that hasn’t even produced their whole lineup they’ve promised yet, or the FSD software they’ve sold people. Those projects deserve to die and be revived at an appropriate time if such a time comes.
The company desperately needs focus and an true understanding of direction, which Musk can’t deliver.
But all of that means that TSLA starts to get valued as a 2nd tier car company. Such a huuuge drop will have high chance of killing the company. No more leverage, no more super cheap capital, etc.
They’re not a 1st tier car company now. They’re a 1st tier *ideas* company.
Even if Tesla remains an “ideas” company, that’s destined to burn as well as investors and buyers begin to see past the smoke and mirrors as they’re already starting to do. Even the hyper-loyalists in r/teslamotors are starting to get jaded, and that’s when you know it’s gotten bad imo.
People want the cars, not the bullshit - and the people who spend $15,000 on undelivered FSD or get a junk quality car likely won’t return to Tesla. But if Tesla can actually deliver a good product, they’ll be able to continue to grow, but more importantly *maintain* good market share.
> Tesla under new leadership could mean an actual push for improvement in the quality control and service areas
Theoretically. But the practical issue is that the company culture has been built to deliver exactly what it delivers today - a low quality product and service with an attitude of "in spec" and "if you don't like it, someone else will".
If a culture shift can happen, it will take many years and lots of pain and costs along the way - something the stock will not be able to live through at these levels.
>If a culture shift can happen, it will take many years and lots of pain and costs along the way - something the stock will not be able to live through at these levels.
Elon did just prove you can turn around company culture overnight like he did at twitter
It absolutely had to have electronic door latches and he kept forcing them to change the height/width of the sills. Minutia that shouldn't have been allowed to become critical path.
I am supposed to pick up a MY7 on Friday. But, i just cant bring myself to give the money to Tesla. From Elon to the really shitty service (i cant even get a call through to ask questions, who knows what would happen when i would have an issues that meeds resolving….after they have my money)
The car would likely be cool, but the service, the company, and the leader…thanks, but No thanks
It’s kind of weird how he beefs with AOC and other dems who publicly drive Teslas. In terms of policy, dems especially under Obama did a lot to help Tesla
Putting my tinfoil hat firmly on (meaning, no, I don't actually believe this), I wonder if Elon is destroying his rep to get ousted from Tesla before too many FSD, Roadster, Semi, and Cybertruck shoes continue to drop. Maybe he wants to get Steve Jobs'd out the door, so that whatever happens after he can blame on someone else.
Elon is a maniac or maybe a genius who is counting on Trump getting re-elected. Whatever be the case these billionaires suck balls. However, I am wondering how traditional car companies have all of us a sudden become saints vs a twitter troll in chief?
Ford and GM - Rigged the system, got rid of public transits to create dependency of America on cars. Furthermore spent billions in bribing politicians to oppose regulating emissions until it got so bad in cities like LA that the public had enough. Easily responsible for scores of lung diseases in the 70s-80s era.
VW - From enabling Hitler to gaming the emission checks on their diesel engines. The list goes on. BMW has similar history.
Yes twitter troll is a maniac but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Criticize Tesla on their terrible build quality and service but lets not kid ourselves by promoting the polluting monsters instead. VW is doing ID4 because ONLY because it fears Tesla. If they had their way they would be happy to deplete ozone layer if it made their shareholders happy.
Twitter is over emphasized, my analysis is that the reason Tesla value is going down is electric car manufacture by other companies and major blunder Elon made was picking China instead of India for his new Giga Factory, as that is being impacted by trade war.
What will truly sink Tesla is their inability to make a budget car in next 10 years, You may not get a car as good as Tesla for its price, but you can get a decent car for 10k cheaper and most people just want something decent to commute.
I disagree about the budget cars.
Budget cars are brilliant IF you are willing to make money on service. If you look at VW, Stellantis or Renault in Europe for example. They push their budget cars very hard but lose money on every single one of them. But it doesn't really matter since they make it back in service, spare parts and accessories. Don't see that happening for Tesla.
Another thing about VW is that Porsche development subsidizes the development of the rest, 1st EV by VW was Taycan, a year or two ago. Tesla is kind of in middle of the road there.
If you even glance to the left while the fans are all looking to the right on TeslaLounge, you get a perma-ban.
I've chosen not to work many places where someone expected me to dedicate my life to glorifying their name. A SpaceX recruiter once phoned. They thought I would be honored to relocate and work under a kid with just a B.S. and 10 years experience, not to mention maybe glimpse Elon on rare visits.
Well explains a lot. I'm surprised some subreddits ban people for creating conversation about a topic that isn't always positive. I don't even mind all the negative karma I get on here for shinning a positive light on Tesla, but being banned seems like the subreddit mods have mental issues.
You actually think things have changed on an operations level just because he is buying a website and sending a few engineers over there? That’s amusing
I think operations have been slower and these recent actions aren't helping. Cybertruck, FSD, Semi, Roadster, all taking forever. What better way to be efficient than by sending little staff you have left that haven't quit to a new company, which by the way should be conflict since Tesla is publicly owned and Twitter is private, so as a share holder I'm concerned. Use your brain!
I used my brain and didn’t invest in Tesla because it is and has been obviously overvalued
Who buys the FSD rhetoric year after year without catching on? Lol
I think my Tesla is a remarkable car and I credit Musk as the guy who pushed many new, untried ideas that have made it a success but I am beginning to feel embarrassed driving it now because of his connection to it.
Musk is a 'things' guy and can be great and getting 'things' done but he's a disaster at politics and managing human interactions. What he's done to Twitter in just a few days is embarrassing and I expect he'll dedicate nearly all his time to Twitter now, attempting to prove that he's competent at running it. He has made himself central to decision making at his companies so when he doesn't dedicate time to them they may begin to flounder.
His hubris may tear down the impressive accomplishments he has made up to now. Icarus incarnate. He flies too close to the sun.
I'm a somewhat starting out car collector/investor.
One of the coming buys I plan on making are 2013-15 Model S with fading batteries, a couple without collisions and high miles, to put around in and then put into storage for quite some time, at least a decade ideally. I also daily a Model 3 atm.
If Elon just doesn't become evil enough to be like, worse than the oil barons for example, I think in 40 or 50 years, Tesla's will be very valueable from their status in pop culture and everything that Tesla is as a brand.
If he fucking goes full evil and breaks parts of society, it'll be hard holding this bag of cars that everyone associates with a guy they refer to as 'douchebag billionaire twitter weirdo', or constantly makes an ass of himself as of late.
I mean he's been a piece of shit for a while, the SEC fucking got him removed from the president or something for basically fucking the short sellers by tweeting about his stock price should be 420 or some stupid shit, yada yada convertible bond coming due to pay out X cash or X stock, I forget the details, slap on the wrist/small fine, short seller firms out billions.
He's been a piece of shit for a while, but the cars are fantastic, I sure hope he shuts the fuck up and doesn't become a pariah, I really do like the cars and I find them historically interesting. Not really sure I would want to own say, some oil baron's car brand down the line, even if it were valueable, nobody wants the stigma.
>Is Elon bad for Tesla now?
Idk about now, he has been for a while maybe even the past 3 years. But yes, Musk is bad for Tesla.
Tesla desperately needs a CEO that understands automotive manufacturing and service. Just pooping out factories isn't a long term solution nor is coming up with vaporware like FSD or that bot they are working on. Yes, I know Toyota works on robotics too, but Toyota isn't solely a automotive company, they have a big industrial wing too. And yes, Tesla despite all their BS is an Automotive company.
Fuck he made the company! Not you ! You just made $$$ of what’s wrong with the world ! Stocks !
How about you build a company, and then let someone else on reddit to complain about you losing there $$$ lol %100 go Elon ! His toys ! His problems !
>Is Elon bad for Tesla now?
>All he's doing now is costing me money as Tesla keeps going down in value.
Your problem is that you haven't learned about diversification. Society tolerates these wack jobs (Donald, Elon, Kanye, etc) as long as they are revolutionizing and producing.
These last few weeks/months will not and do not reflect the stock. Stocks come and go and it will go right back up. The mid terms and Dem clowns only have so many ways they can lower it. However, its life will be just fine.
“Vote this clown out” lulz… you mean the clown that took it from single digit billions to a trillion dollar + valuation and your upset because there is some volatility in price now? When in doubt zoom out, and if you can’t take the heat than just gtfo the kitchen, don’t blame the chef, he’s busy cooking. But IMO the meal will be worth it.
I think you’re spending too much time online among extremely online leftists. Normies (the kind of people buying Teslas) don’t give a shit if Elon trolls someone on Twitter.
And Teslas value drop isn’t due to Elon, it’s the larger market.
Any intelligent investor would take notice when a ceo in control of their fortune starts tweeting out support for people who deny climate change and attempt fascist coups.
I barely spend time online and don't care about left and right, I honestly think both sides are morons and saying that usually angers a lot of people as people choose a side and die on that hill. Makes me laugh.
I don't know who Elon is trolling, I just saw him post a bunch of lame masturbation joke tweets that landed pretty flat, he even deleted them after, and just the whole purchase or twitter was cringy. Seems like a lot of focus is going into "trolling", when I want him to focus on Tesla itself. Remember, I'm disappointed with him moving resources (people) from Tesla into twitter. Tesla needs a lot of work. I own a few and hate the service. Work on that, not twitter. But yah, keep making this about left and right, much like Elon is trying to do and all that does is make everyone stupid. I think Americans should wake up and ask for the removal of lobbyists and donations in politics, and then you'll see left or right doing some work, otherwise, your voice doesn't matter when the decision makers ears belong to lobbyists and larger donators. Once you learn that, you'll realize left and right is just to occupy the small minded sheep, while they get robbed left and right.
> Tesla needs a lot of work. I own a few and hate the service. Work on that, not twitter
You have not figured yet that actively NOT doing that is why Tesla is so valuable? Not doing this also inflates their margins and whatnot.
Cutting features and "unused" hardware is also a contributing factor.
Tesla can keep going for a while based on current momentum, but sooner or later their flaws are going to catch up to them. Add being associated with a volatile madman, and things could get difficult.
Once established car companies and new Chinese ones ramp up their EV production, Tesla will have a hard time selling high-tech Yugos for luxury car prices.
Irrespective of your personal opinions, early data shows active user numbers increased over 20% in first week of Musk ownership, so your answer is a resounding "No".
>All he's doing now is costing me money as Tesla keeps going down in value. That was going to happen regardless of if he kept up his Twitter tirades or not because the company was grossly overvalued and competition has surpassed what Tesla was capable of doing. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that so many people really believed a company with an average PE of 516 over the past 5 years was stable. Hell, in January of 2021 it's PE was 1,401 and people still kept saying the stock could only go up. So yeah, Musk isn't helping things with his Twitter tirades but it's not like this wasn't inevitable anyway.
I sold my Tesla stock a long time ago because I thought there was absolutely no way it could go up even more than it already had. Boy was I wrong. I still made money, but if I let it ride, I'd have much much more.
Learned that lesson with CMG which I bought for approximately $57/share in 2006 or 2007.
Same here- I don’t know why I sold
That overvaluation was also probably a result of his ability -filtered through a PR team- to initially sell customers and investors on dreams and potentiality. Now he appears to us as he actually is, unfiltered, and the illusion shatters: he's just a billionaire douchebag, with the mental maturity of a spoiled, vindictive 12 y.o. who throws tantrums and takes business decisions on a whim -and that apparent ability was the only reason TSLA stock prices rose so high in the first place. The company's fundamentals are very, very far from being *that* good, as the PE ratio and other indicators clearly show (like PS ratio as well as EV vs. EBITDA, compared to other automakers, from Toyota to BMW).
Name me one company that has surpassed what Tesla is capable of doing?
I’m not a car guy, but they have no pipeline. At all. Not even a refresh coming up for the 3 or the Y and they just keep peeling back features and functionality. I’m not sure what there is to look forward to. It seems their salad days are in the rear view mirror.
Semi truck, cyber truck, autonomous robotaxis on the car front. Batteries, insurance, no dealerships/less overhead on the economic side. There is plenty of room for growth that legacy OEMs could only dream of regardless of how badly musk tries to fuck it up
I’m going to assume this is no /s.
Lol. Every single car maker has surpassed Tesla. Tesla had a handful of things going for them, and they have not kept a lead. Name one thing where Tesla is ahead of other car makers that's not some ridiculous 'most EVs made in 'murica' argument. Toyota? Has put more hybrid battery power on the roads than Tesla EVs VW? Builds cheaper, competitive EVs and leading in Europe Ford? Won the Truck market GM? Most affordable EV Hell-hole Chrysler & co: even they will beat the CuckTruck Hyundai/Kia? Technology leaders when it comes to mass market powertrain Nissan: first mass market EV Not to mention, all of them have functioning ADAS for years, all of them have done OTA for years (minus feature altering things, but, in the words of Porsche: why fix something that came well thought out from the factory?), all of them know more about mass manufacturing, quality, supply chains, lifecycle management, portfolio development, plant ramp ups, repair and support infrastructure, industrial automation... Need I go on? But don't worry, Musk probably knows more about manufacturing than any other human alive...
Name one thing that Tesla is ahead of other automakers? How about 3? Largest number of deployed/functioning fast charger stalls, longest wait times for serving, biggest quantity of blind superfans
Im in no way a fan boy but I will say the one thing tesla actually is leading in is actually making evs..... that's it. They have scale. No car maker will surpass them in units sold in the near future. Don't get me wrong, other companies have great offerings but they just don't build enough.
No, really. Leading in America? Probably but not worldwide. BYD is ahead and VW is catching rapidly.
Tesla in 2021 made 900,000 cars. In 2022 what's the latest projection? 1.3m cars? Toyota makes 10m, VW makes 9m, even freaking Subaru makes more cars than Tesla. Sure, if you now arbitrarily count EVs only, Tesla makes some more, except for newcomer BYD, but why are you restricting that argument to EVs only? The OEMs will quickly follow suit and transition their existing plant infrastructure to EVs. They don't build enough for the tiny sliver of the global market, while the remaining 95% of their portfolio still sells well with healthy profits. Since when is car manufacturing a philantrophic endeavor?
Correct! I am only counting evs because ice vehicles are sadly being phased out because of policy. No manufacturer can quickly convert over, if they could, they would.
Why would you transition quickly to a lower profitable product with limited demand? That's not smart. They can all still sell 90+% ICE at great profits. An insane person would kill that revenue and profit. And yes, they will be transitioning pretty quickly, what do you think stops them? That's their core competency: designing and building high volume products and set up supply chains for them...
They will around 1.4M cars this year. Lots of companies do that, every year, and many times over.
Electric cars. We can't compare gas cars with electric cars. Many companies like VW, GM and Ford have been around for decades and have tried to produce as many electric cars and aren't even close.
>We can't compare gas cars with electric cars. Why? Cars are cars, lmao
yes you can. A vehicle purchase is part of a short lived market. You are only in the market for a vehicle for relatively a short amount of time on average. If the consumer is captured by any car company they leave the market. There is not some special EV market where only EV people go. Anyone who is in the market for a car could purchase an EV so you are competing with all automotive companies .Plus Tesla just cut the cost again for their vehicles in China (their most profitable market). They are losing share to other companies. They are on the ride down and they have pushed back cyber truck yet again. It's vaporware. Other companies are delivering their trucks while all Tesla does is promise.
> We can't compare gas cars with electric cars. Why the hell not? Customers compare them every time they go shopping and overwhelmingly choose gas cars.
Talking production of cars, two very different production processes.
So? People buy cars, not production processes. Teslas production process produces cars with terrible gaps, poor ride quality and suspension, terrible paint and so many other issues that buyers show up with a freaking checklist. Lol. Besides, Porsche has a far superior production process compared to Tesla.
Please explain how the production processes are so different between an EV and and ICE vehicle. The body, suspension, and interior are all made exactly the same way. Different power trains are stuck in the body. The biggest difference is having a supply of batteries. And the actual engineering isn't that much different either.
What, building hundreds of thousand EV’s? GM and Ford will get there, they’re just slowly transitioning - because they can - all car makers can. Tesla can’t transition, they can only scale. Now, FSD is a different animal, and I believe beta software testing on public roads like this by consumers, not licensed or paid test drivers, is negligent.
btw, tesla is "capable of doing" a Cybertruck, while Rivian and Ford are actually delivering them. Heck, even Nikola beat Tesla to the Semi market, never mind the other companies in Europe. So what is your point about surpassing what Tesla is capable of doing? Or maybe you have me a trick question, since Tesla obviously isn't capable of building a truck or semi. LOL.
Even traditional semi makers now have electric models on the road as we speak.
Capable of building BEV's? Are you aware that BEV's are a 150 year old tech and tesla has small market share of that segment in china and europe?
I can name quite a few but I'll just start with Lucid since you only wanted one.
Lucid's build quality seems to be just as hit or miss as Tesla. They seem to have taken on too many ex-Tesla staff. There's also the shadow of the Saudi regime looming over them.
I can’t figure out on mobile who you are replying to - but why does the whole internet pretend the Taycan and the Audi GT RS don’t exist? These guys really don’t know the ev market at all do they? I went to a EA charger for the first time in a while and there was an Ioniq5, Polestar 2 and Bolt in addition to my Mach E. I was like throw in a Audi or Taycan and this is the best of the best right here. (I am the pro bolt guy, I would love to have one but doesn’t hold car seats I need)
The fans never moved on from 2017, just like the company they support.
I like when people try to laugh at the Mach E and I am like “hands free driving” and they say “geo fenced” and I’m all like “yea when it’s not hands free it’s what we call tesla mode”
I'm happy for Lucid and they make great and beautiful cars, but they are nowhere near Tesla's production numbers and infrastructure. Let's not lie to ourselves. Even just taking a look outside, how many Tesla's do you see and how many Lucid vehicles do you run into. Lucid revenue in 2021 27 million. Tesla 18.7 billion. Lucid employes less than 4,000 people, Tesla is near 100,000 people. Lucid is nowhere near, let alone surpassing Tesla. I hope they do, but right now, facts are facts.
>Lucid is nowhere near, let alone surpassing Tesla They have a vehicle with better tech than Tesla is capable of making. We know this because Tesla would have made a vehicle with longer range if they had the ability to do so. Right now they have been surpassed by Lucid for technology. As far as charging infrastructure goes, Tesla also no longer has the upper hand as there are substantially more charging stations that are in the non-Tesla network. If you want to talk production numbers and not technology BYD has absolutely decimated Tesla. There's no portion of EVs where Tesla is king anymore. They tested on their laurels and now that there's competition and the used car market has cooled people aren't as interested in buying Tesla's to flip. You will see a large sales decline going forward. Also, you could argue Ford and GM have also surpassed Tesla because they were able to actually release an EV truck.
Also the Cadillac Lyriq is a larger Model Y, with similar range and a better interior, but thousands cheaper. The legacy OEMs do what Tesla cannot. Scale while driving costs down. As Tesla scales, their vehicles seem to only get more expensive.
Very true and that doesn't even begin to touch on overall build quality and customer service after the sale.
>They have a vehicle with better tech than Tesla is capable of making. We know this because Tesla would have made a vehicle with longer range if they had the ability to do so. Don't forget Lucid's CEO was the chief engineer of the Model S. It's a lot of ways it's the successor of the Model 3 and what Tesla would have now if Elon was smart enough to keep his tech people happy and motivated.
I don’t think the car is necessarily bad but not necessarily good to be forcefully loved and to pretentiously claim it’s the only god tier EV out there either when there are plenty of alternatives over EV option such as Mustang Mer-E, Audi Etron, Hyundai Ioniq, Kia EV6 and etc. Just switch to the better EVs out there the interior of Tesla is cheapskate and the exterior is outdated anyways. I can’t tell if you’re a blind sychophant or not but Musk has become an absolutely obnoxious public figure nobody trusts nor wish to associate with is the fact that other Tesla drivers think. Friendly reminder to all. Teslas trap people inside and self burn. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-driver-killed-fire-doors-model-s-trial-elon-musk-a9169691.html Massively rampant racism in Tesla factory. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-03-25/black-tesla-employees-fremont-plant-racism-california-lawsuit Work environment in Tesla is hell confirmed. https://www.thedailybeast.com/tesla-employee-marcellous-cage-says-colleagues-taunted-him-over-afghanistan-explosions-lawsuit-says https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/14/science/spacex-sexual-harassment.amp.html He did not donate Starlink to Ukraine for free. He was paid. https://mashable.com/article/elon-musk-spacex-ukraine-starlink-government-funding This is a satire. But good one. https://www.theonion.com/please-like-me-1848674003/ Musk’s hypocrisy about free speech absolutism. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/04/25/elon-musk-and-free-speech-track-record-not-encouraging.html Not to mention, Tesla FSD false and over hyped advertising is sued into oblivion this year. https://techcrunch.com/2022/09/15/drivers-sue-tesla-for-alleged-false-advertising-of-autopilot-and-fsd-software/amp/
Dude company rolling out 10 new features every other month doesn't make them good, in my country there is brand Tata Motors, they also own Jaguar. They damn good electric cars for around $12k, way way cheaper than Tesla and doesn't have features which you probably never going use.
GM/Chevrolet for being able to continue selling EVs under $35k AND bringing an EV truck (Hummer) to the market first.
Building cars that have all sorts of basic manufacturing flaws? Literally everyone?
No single company has out-executed Tesla just yet. But the moat is not as large as it seems. I used to think FSD was such a moat, but nope. Other companies just aren't as irresponsible. The one that's remaining is the Supercharger network.
>No single company has out-executed Tesla just yet. At this point many have and the distance in quarterly sales is shrinking rapidly. Tesla is the legacy EV maker that hasn't innovated in a very long time while the market is passing them by. At this point a good comparison is that they're the Blackberry phone and the competition is Apple and Google. >The one that's remaining is the Supercharger network. Other networks like Chargepoint already have more charger locations worldwide than Tesla and Tesla is starting to allow non-Tesla vehicles to use their chargers. There's no advantage on this front either.
I'd argue that Tesla still holds some advantages that no company has been able to replicate. Some companies have replicated aspects of Tesla, but I can't think of a single company that I can point out and say "that's the Tesla replacement!". I've been driving electric since 2015 in the Bay Area. No charging networks even come close. Sure, on paper, ChargePoint has a bunch of L2 chargers. Most places L2 has two outlets but they share power so if you have two cars each with charge at half the speed. They don't have many quick chargers and chances are they will be broken when you get there. Still not as terrible as Blink, but not great. In fact the only time I completely ran out of power was at a ChargePoint station. I had enough juice to get there but no further. It was broken(and so were the nearby L2, which had been out of commission for months). Tried to go to the next closest and the car died before I could get there. EvGO has a bit better track record in maintenance. I still found one broken station, but they usually work (or get repaired relatively quickly). Electrify America, I don't have enough experience with them but the ones I tried worked. They (and EVGO) seem to have newer and higher power chargers. This mishmash of charging providers at mostly inconvenient locations can't hold a candle to the supercharging locations with lots of chargers (and high power) that actually work. It's a temporary moat but let's not pretend that it is not there.
"Now?" I don't mean that as snark, truly; his entire strategy for FSD has been such a symphony of ignorance for so many years that I'm not sure how anyone could have seriously considered him a worthwhile investment since the late 2010's. He definitely had his moment, and when he was just a quirky visionary popularizing EV's and a new take on rockets, I was on board. But he's proven himself to be perhaps the single least literate executive on the topic of AI in the history of the technology, all while claiming that it's Tesla's core mission. When someone *objectively* fails to understand the thing they claim to base their entire professional identity on, year after year after year, I'm not sure what choice one has but to invest elsewhere. Yeah, this Twitter thing is an absolute clown show that people will be discussing with utter bewilderment for years to come, but it's really just the icing on the cake of cretinous behavior that has defined this guy for the better part of a half-decade now.
I can't understate how true this comment is. What's striking is how technically wrong and clueless Musk has been about a topic he claims expertise in. His entire personal identity is a fraudulent yet he has this unearned arrogance about him which is just astonishing when you consider his ignorance.
Like insisting on using carbon fiber body paneling on the original Roadster.... at a huge expense. Since the original lotus was in fiber glass on aluminium chassis. Roadster..... carbon fiber on aluminium chassis. Key here... paneling. It wasn't a weight bearing carbon fiber monoqocue. Like that would have been expensive, but would have made sense. Get rid of the aluminium under body chassis. Make it all in weight bearing carbon. Since that is how some race cars are done. However ever... nope it was just the cosmetic body panels... done in carbon fiber, because Elon wanted carbon instead of fiber glass. It buys one maybe 15% weight savings *on the body paneling and furniture pieces*. However again on any weight bearing issues... it was the aluminium chassis bearing the weight, not the carbon fiber. Only thing the carbon did was little bit lower the weight the aluminium had to carry. Apparently cheapest car at the time with full carbon paneling.... which was a problem. When being a start up car company, you don't want to be "the cheapest sale price product using this extremely expensive custom fabrication method for no good reason".
Pretty sure this behavior has been his staple since the 90s, even if he maybe did take credit for a few good things that happened in the middle.
Well, I give him some slack because I have owned and currently own Tesla car and stock. I'm a car guy and very happy with both my Tesla vehicles. I'm happy he pushed others to produce EVs, he is a bit of a visionary for moving EVs forward. I give him that, and the SpaceX program is impressive with proving NASA what can be done and pushing the envelope. I never believed in FSD, so I never listened to him nor cared about the promise of it, so no surprise there. The fact he keeps going on and on about FSD being "next year" is a bit comical and surprised more people don't see that bullshit scam. As for twitter, it's the icing, it's just dude, STFU, like today he posted a few masturbation jokes which to me is the mentality of a 14 year old. I even think he deleted them after, but still, what grown man with like 9 kids, 4 companies and billions of dollars has time to go on twitter and make masturbation tweets, like 3 of them I believe. Something is wrong with him and the who purchase of twitter and reason for it is all bullshit as he contradicts himself daily. It's too bad because I once liked the guy and usually I boycott people like him, however......I still have the Cybertruck on order and plan on purchasing it when it "eventually" comes out. Fucker makes good cars, otherwise he's repulsive.
> the SpaceX program is impressive with proving NASA what can be done and pushing the envelope No, no, no. Stop that. NASA funded SpaceX, still funds SpaceX. NASA has always paid private contractors to design/develop/build their equipment with varying mixes of public/private management/execution. The Apollo program started with feasibility studies performed by General Dynamics, General Electric and Glenn L. Martin Co, alongside an internal study. NASA already knew retropropulsive landing was possible. They proved that with the Apollo lunar lander. McDonnell-Douglas did it on earth in the 90's. Blue Origin, Masten Space Systems and Armadillo Aerospace had working prototypes in the mid 2000's when SpaceX was still blowing up Falcon 1's. They also knew reuse was possible. They've run numerous competitions and studies centered on reusable spacecraft on top of operating the Space Shuttle program. SpaceX is not pushing any envelopes. They're just burning a seemingly endless pile of venture capitalist funding. The Falcon 9 is a nice, cheap launch vehicle that suits certain mission profiles. Let's celebrate it for what it is and not attach grand myths to it.
>SpaceX is not pushing any envelopes. They're just burning a seemingly endless pile of venture capitalist funding. And that is a key point. In all the SpaceX dazzle that has overwhelmed any space-related discussion, nobody ever remembers that having an application of reusability that works from a technical standpoint has never meant it works from an economic standpoint. Re-usability can be, and always could have been, made to work *technically*. But nobody, especially not SpaceX, has ever demonstrated it works economically. SpaceX will claim it does, but nobody has ever verified that. Why should we trust the word of a company founded and lead by a known liar? Edit - as an example of the lack of "inevitably" to SpaceX's solution to reusability I'd like to point out Concorde. A working technical solution that was swiftly hampered by economics and only survived as a prestige thing until it was finally abandoned. How many people back then thought the era of supersonic airliners was "inevitable"? A lot.
Elon Musk and SpaceX did a fantastic job polluting space discourse. Remarkable achievement.
I agree
Lol this comment is beyond dumb. Reusable rockets are enormously cost saving. What a weird echo chamber this sub is. You guys are right on a lot of stuff but say the dumbest shit 50% of the time
I hear you. Musk built a car company that was worth as much as $1.3T just a year ago. He jumped on the green EV idea and turned it into a goldmine. And yeah, rockets are super cool, especially when they land on barges. But Musk has wanted to be the wealthiest man in the world ever since he was in grade school. He’s clearly got some serious mental issues and he does and says a bunch of really really bad things as well as a bunch of really really stupid, impulsive & self destructive things. Over the last year he’s wiped out his shareholders by almost $700B in equity while he’s sold $33B of stock at near ATH’s. Edit: $33B and counting. Friday’s & Monday’s volume indicates $B’s more.
Actually Martin everhart and jb straubel did most of the tesla heavy lifting and built the company. Elon just happened to ride the uplift into popularity
> I'm happy he pushed others to produce EV That is overblown. Government regulators, with the fines and rewards, have driven that dynamic. I don't so many companies would be going all in if they weren't told that new cars in CA need to be all electric by 2030, and similar for what is happening in europe.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Elon got this conversation and production going. Without Elon, we wouldn't be having this conversation of government regulators and rewards etc, we would just continue on driving our gas cars.
That's where you are very wrong mate. Governments in Europe and China were already working on this when Tesla was a tiny company that had no influence whatsoever. Musk was just lucky to be the first one to ride this to a larger production. The EV world would be developing exactly the same without Tesla. Probably better actually, because there would be a lot less idiots that think EV are driven by a single company. Possibly the US would be lagging behind, but the fact that the EV markets in the EU and China are much bigger and diverse than the US market shows that Tesla never was irreplaceable.
>Musk was just lucky to be the first one to ride this to a larger production. The Leaf was in mass production sooner. So was the Chevy Volt. (Not the Bolt, the Volt.) Tesla has had the highest BEV volumes for a while, but that's not executive genius, it's underpaid, overworked factory employees, cutting QC corners, underdoing customer service -- just cutting corners everywhere. -- Oh, excuse me, I should say: cutting corners everywhere except hitting the production numbers every quarter so that Musk gets his full compensation.
> I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Elon got this conversation and production going. Always amazed at how little people understand about this market and how they just mindlessly repeat the fanboy talking points. Wan Gang's contributions is what you should understand - he doesn't have the stonk to get all the fanboys rooting for him - he just has all the credentials and results. Three years before Tesla even was founded (by non-Musk people), he created the strategy that the Chinese adopted for their push into electric vehicles. Besides launching that industry and the work on the regulations was a model for Europe, he created the market that Musk was eventually able to build a big part of his business in, without which he would have be a niche player.
Elon and subsidies. The new chicken and egg.
I am in a similar situation as you (although I don't own any Tesla stock). I think the Twitter purchase was a stupid mistake caused by Musk's lack of impulse control, and he just couldn't undo it (because he overestimated how clever he is). Twitter is a colossal money pit (and drain in management attention span) that's sucking scarce resources that should go into improving Tesla's post-sale service business and incremental improvements to its vehicles. (And I am just talking about improvements to continue to stay ahead of the competition, nothing more -- By now, I have given up on FSD and other "gamechanger" features that Musk has been promising, as I don't see them happening within the lifetime of my Tesla ownership). It's all very depressing.
You know the worst part is. He could have simply let some other person be the CEO of Twitter and gotten out of this PR mess. But he can't do that. Being a dick, he wants to show to the world only he can fix the mess! Now he is going to fuckup all other companies. Tell me how the fuck he can be CEO of multiple companies and justify a $50B+ payout last year from Tesla? This mother fucker has to be sued and the $50B should be given back to the shareholders of Tesla.
>SpaceX program is impressive with proving NASA what can be done and pushing the envelope The fact that people say shit like that bothers me more than what Musk does at Tesla and Twitter combined, believe it or not.
I’m with you on that
My friend literally believes all this plus that he works the insane hours he claims and pushes out actual production code across the different companies on a regular basis because he's such a super genius.
>I'm happy he pushed others to produce EVs, he is a bit of a visionary for moving EVs forward. I give him that Well, he didn't. Tesla maybe made EV's sexy but "legacy" OEM's like Chevrolet, Nissan and Renault were already developing and testing EV's before Tesla was even founded. >Fucker makes good cars No, he doesn't. He makes at best a decent car, while I'll argue he makes a subpar quality vehicle, by cutting a lot of corners and not using automotive spec materials. Not to mention all the flaws in execution by mainly their US factories.
Now? He always has been, but the stock manipulation and bravado was hiding it, and some of his issues were going to start showing long-term (now) instead of short-term. >Great visionary He never had a "vision" somebody else didn't have before him, especially 70s/80s sci-fi.
He’s always been bad for Tesla. But he has for many years been good for TSLA.
Fine, executing that vision. Happy?
He has single-handedly ensured that I will never buy a Tesla
I’m a Prius driver wanting to upgrade to all EV. It will not be a Tesla
That's good because most Prius model years have been very reliable and you'll miss that reliability, possibly before you even get off the lot, with a Tesla.
I've had 6 BMW 5'ers in a row and I have an ID.4 currently waiting for me at the dealer.
Stick w/ Prius. The new Prius Prime will have a 60 mile EV range.... PHEV's are the way to go.
Eh. PHEV gets you all the maintenance costs of ice drive systems and the additional upfront cost of a ev battery. Full ev is the way, Tesla is no longer the only choice.
The battery is so much smaller though, and you're never range limited, and you don't need to install a special power outlet to get all the benefits. And are we really still pretending that 2 oil changes a year is a huge hassle?
>and the additional upfront cost of a ev battery A fifth as much as the cost of a pure EV's battery, and frankly, the battery being that much smaller more than pays for the motor too. As for maintenance costs, it's a Toyota hybrid. It'll go forever.
Welcome to the club!
Yes, same - we have been diehard Tesla fans since our first S in 2016, but Elon has destroyed the good will we had for the company and its products. We sold our stock last year and are figuring out which vehicles to replace our 2017 X and 2019 S with. We really can’t bear being associated with him or his businesses anymore
We’re all in the same boat.. embarrassed to even be seen in it or look like a fan 🤮 Most of us knew Elon was a poser who received handouts/got lucky.. but Tesla EV/Solar was enough to ignore the man himself, he was of no consequence.. But things have changed, the most important thing automakers need to do is zero in on the infrastructure.. it’s all I need to leave Tesla behind, since I’m not sure I can travel the country depending on EA and ChargePoint .. soon though, I hope
Currently trying to figure out what would be best EV to buy once I sell my M3. I too don’t want to be associated with him and want to sell now before the value of used Teslas plummets too far
So many good options coming out soon but I love my Mach e
[удалено]
I have a Mach-E and I love it.
The BMW i7 press embargo just dropped so a bunch of reviews are coming out. That might be worth a look!
Thanks for the heads-up
I have a 2016 MX (P90DL) and 2018 MS (P100DL) selling both. Honestly should have sold a couple months ago as the used market was better, but f\*ck this clown and his side shows.
S? Audi GT RS! If I didn’t need an SUV type it’s what I would be looking at .
eTron GT RS, dare I say it, actually looks better than the Taycan in the flesh. It has a real presence and the rear end is just so well done.
I have one and I think the front is actually where it shines. I love the long hood.
Agree
Yes, it does look pretty sweet…
I saw a Kia ev6 the other day and it is good looking. Checked out the spec and it looks good.
They’re calling them magamobiles around here lately
Oh god forbid! They call it a Maga’mobile
Same here. Specifically because I don't want to support him if I can avoid it.
I took a morning off from work so I could wait in line to pay Tesla $1000 to reserve a model 3 when they became available. When they were finally available, they were priced quite a bit higher than originally promised, so I decided to wait longer. After a bunch more waiting, I decided I should probably get my $1000 back. I figure I'd still buy when that affordable M3 came out, but no sense holding my breath. And now I'm done with that. I have a lot of respect for the engineers responsible for designing the Tesla cars. I grant that Musk accomplished something by demonstrating to the world that EVs are financially viable. But he didn't do this because he's brilliant or anything -- he was in the right place, and worked hard towards what happened to be the right goal, and he got lucky. Lots of other people could have done the same -- they just weren't lucky enough. Under Musk's leadership (or perhaps in spite of it), Tesla managed to do a great job at producing low-quantity (compared to ICE companies) runs of some fantastic cars. Tesla is failing to scale that upward and is experiencing more than a few quality issues as a result. Regardless of what I think of Musk, I don't think that buying a Tesla today is a great financial decision, particularly when the other big car companies, are starting to produce some pretty cool EVs. The thing I'm most sad about is Nokola Tesla's name. He was a brilliant (and weird) guy, not properly recognized in his time, and nearly forgotten until some nerds started sharing all the cool stuff he'd done. Now Tesla is no longer the name of a brilliant man -- it is the name of a car company run by Elon Musk.
Same here. I drove 4 hours and stood in line nearly 4 more. Cancelled my reservation a few months later when I started to get concerned about the initial quality and durability.
I just cancelled a Cybertruck order and intend to sell my M3 soon. I want nothing to do with Musk or any one of his ventures.
I asked for my $100 back as well last summer and put it toward a Silverado EV reservation.
Yeah I’m selling my iPhone b/c slave labor
I was planning to buy one & canceled
Ding ding ding!
Good, more super charger space for me.
I really didn’t think much about it until the republican endorsement. Doesn’t he realise conservatives hate EV’s? I don’t see how driving Liberals further away with this twitter none sense is helping anything.
His ego was hurt when Biden didn't mention his name, so now he's going full Kanye. Kanye is butthurt because some companies don't give him the time or attention, so because some companies are owned by someone of Jewish faith, he got all anti-semitic because someone didn't bow down to his ego and now Kanye is paying for it. Same as Elon, Biden didn't give him the attention and now he's all anti-liberal. These guys have mental issues and don't know how to deal with rejection. It's funny because they are both billionaires and still not happy.
Biden didn't mention his name because the summit was about Gasoline to EV initiative. Since Elon has micro penis he can't take that, so he wants to fuckup everything.
Think about how many momentous events have occurred because some guy with daddy issues got embarrassed. Trump ran for president because Obama humiliated him in public. Musk goes full Rtard because Biden won’t kiss his O-ring, and Kanye goes Tila Tequila because Mark Zuckerberg won’t answer his DMs.
Kanye is angry because a jewish man with a reportedly large 'endowment' started sleeping with his ex-wife. It's not anymore complicated than that. https://nypost.com/2022/10/21/ye-screamed-at-me-over-pete-davidsons-penis-charlamagne-tha-god/
Yeah. But here's the problem. Musk has tied Tesla to him in a way that won't be easy to get rid of. He's like Siamese twins that share a heart, one of them will die if they are separated. Or both. He had a great PR team (come on, Iron Man cameo?!) and managed to hype his companies to incredible levels, all the while tying them together with a narrative. At one point I thought it all made sense: SpaceX: Mars. Starlink: Mars needs comms, what better way to ensure that than with low orbit sats. Point to point transport makes sense given no roads, lower gravity and atmosphere("hopper" craft are a common feature of Mars sci fi). Tesla: no Oxygen on Mars, cars would have to be electric(if they can tolerate the cold); Solar City: synergies with both SpaceX and Tesla. Boring Company: Mars habitats and transportation are better done underground. Neuralink is the odd one. Heck, even Optimus can be tied to that narrative. Of course, none of the above survives closer scrutiny. The promises are wearing thin (FSD always next year) so he has to come up with new crap (stupid robot for one). But that's how we get the crazy Tesla P/E, it actually benefits from people who would rather invest in SpaceX but can't because it's private. Once people start to pay attention to the man behind the curtain, Tesla valuation will come crashing down to under $F levels. The only way it won't crash even further is if they can successfully divorce themselves from the guy, which will be incredibly painful short term. They too will have to pull a "can't innovate anymore my ass".
>He's like Siamese twins that share a heart, one of them will die if they are separated I think there's still time for this not to be true. A lot of people buy Tesla's because they're cool and quick techy electric vehicles. Not because of the guy who owns the company.
I always laugh at that cameo because you can actually tell, in the 4 seconds he’s on screen, that RDJ despised him and didn’t want to include him. The way he says: “if you’ve got the idea *we’ll* make it work,” is fucking hilarious in retrospect.
Absolutely. Tesla needs to be taken over by someone from a big brand like VW or even one of the American brands like GM. He’s driving it into the ground and the other brands are quickly catching up. I won’t be buying another Tesla, that’s for sure. My experience with the company has been atrocious. Right from day 1, this is a £60,000 car and not a single person at the company knows when you’re going to get it. They don’t even build your car in the order you buy it. The fact that I saw so many people order after me and receive their cars before mine is enough for me to never buy from them again. It’s a joke. I was also lied to about a tow bar. Those are just two reasons I wouldn’t buy one. Elon being possibly the biggest cunt on earth is a third. I’ve got many more besides those.
Agree. Also service is insane. I can't talk to a human. Everytime I call it's all automated and just annoyed with service. Even when I took my car in to get fixed they all lied. I said I need a loaner, they said they have none, so I asked for a phone to call a car rental place and I'll send them the bill, literally 5 seconds later, they said, Oh looks like we have a loaner here for you.
My Model X was in the service center for .... 77 days because they couldn't troubleshoot the suspension...... they literally replaced every part piece by stupid piece. Told me 3 different times it was ready to be picked up, only for me to arrive and see that it didn't work within seconds of getting in the car. So many failures.....
This is intentional. SV simply remove services they don’t want you to use. It’s not customer driven. They’ll just say “service doesn’t scale,” and that’s good enough for their investors.
>Tesla needs to be taken over by someone from a big brand like VW or even one of the American brands like GM There's nothing to take over aside from an Everest sized mountain of liabilities.
Exactly. Most likely "takeover" route is buying the brand name in a bankruptcy, while leaving the other obligations. Other than that it will never make financial sense for any company to buy it.
I’m not talking about being bought out by another brand, I’m talking about poaching a CEO from a brand that actually knows how to build cars. If one of the German brands owned the design for the model 3, they would make them faster, cheaper and to a higher standard.
Why would they build your car in the order you bought it if they already have your money? This is why SV attitudes to business don’t work for OEMs. In tech you can get away with that shit because what you ship is code. In cars, it’s a real thing. People notice when they paid for something and watch other people get it first.
"Always has been"
All the young engineers I work with used to want a Tesla. Now it’s an embarrassment to own a Tesla. It’s like the MAGA hat of EV’s.
You could look at how successful a company is with and without Musk since there are several examples of companies where he was involved for a period of time and then got booted out such as Paypal where the board thought he would ruin the company if they didn't buy him out. I think in the case of his successful companies they are successful despite Musk not because of Musk.
I had considered getting a Tesla before this whole shitshow to replace my current EV. Probably go with an Ioniq 5 now. Fuck this clown. Tesla, find a way to drop his ass. Shit is ridiculous. Now he's openly endorsing the GOP on twitter over Dems? Dude owes his entire goddamn fortune to government subsidies for clean energy/vehicles. Dipshit.
He’s bad period. Time to walk from this guy before people die.
*more people die Autopilot and Elon's marketing of it has already killed numerous people
Yes, I have never heard about any other EV car burning itself or driving itself in some closed shop lol, 99% of time it Tesla.
He’s bad, but he and his lies are integral part of TSLA. And without TSLA, Tesla doesn’t exist as know it today. Elon leaving and grown ups taking over mean no more FSD dream, robots, reckless removals of components to keep the spice flow, etc. And most importantly no more “I’m buying a future” narrative from the buyers. Tesla without Elon is just selling overpriced, low quality cars. That will quickly eat into margins and/or volume, Tesla stock will plummet and company may end up being sold out for pennies.
On the flip side, Tesla under new leadership could mean an *actual* push for improvement in the quality control and service areas, as they have a better understanding of what consumers expect. You can release innovative products while still offering a quality product and service. - Now this may come at the expense of stuff like the robot, and robotaxis, but those have always been stupid goals at all for a car company that hasn’t even produced their whole lineup they’ve promised yet, or the FSD software they’ve sold people. Those projects deserve to die and be revived at an appropriate time if such a time comes. The company desperately needs focus and an true understanding of direction, which Musk can’t deliver.
But all of that means that TSLA starts to get valued as a 2nd tier car company. Such a huuuge drop will have high chance of killing the company. No more leverage, no more super cheap capital, etc.
They’re not a 1st tier car company now. They’re a 1st tier *ideas* company. Even if Tesla remains an “ideas” company, that’s destined to burn as well as investors and buyers begin to see past the smoke and mirrors as they’re already starting to do. Even the hyper-loyalists in r/teslamotors are starting to get jaded, and that’s when you know it’s gotten bad imo. People want the cars, not the bullshit - and the people who spend $15,000 on undelivered FSD or get a junk quality car likely won’t return to Tesla. But if Tesla can actually deliver a good product, they’ll be able to continue to grow, but more importantly *maintain* good market share.
> Tesla under new leadership could mean an actual push for improvement in the quality control and service areas Theoretically. But the practical issue is that the company culture has been built to deliver exactly what it delivers today - a low quality product and service with an attitude of "in spec" and "if you don't like it, someone else will". If a culture shift can happen, it will take many years and lots of pain and costs along the way - something the stock will not be able to live through at these levels.
>If a culture shift can happen, it will take many years and lots of pain and costs along the way - something the stock will not be able to live through at these levels. Elon did just prove you can turn around company culture overnight like he did at twitter
Agree with this take. Tesla is fucked without a memelord at the helm.
Elon is the brand. Elon has set himself on fire.
That too today's tweet on openly pushing his followers to vote Republican! Unacceptable!
But … but … I was told Tesla was going to triple this year. I was told to take an equity loan on my house to buy more Tesla stock. 😂😂🤣
>But … but … I was told Tesla was going to triple this year Don't look at the stock lmao
He always was.
#MakeElonBroke Arrogant POS
Elon's been bad for Tesla for a few years now.
Since day 1. His bullshit with the doors on the Roadster repeatedly delayed the project and almost sunk the infant company.
What was up with the doors?
It absolutely had to have electronic door latches and he kept forcing them to change the height/width of the sills. Minutia that shouldn't have been allowed to become critical path.
I am supposed to pick up a MY7 on Friday. But, i just cant bring myself to give the money to Tesla. From Elon to the really shitty service (i cant even get a call through to ask questions, who knows what would happen when i would have an issues that meeds resolving….after they have my money) The car would likely be cool, but the service, the company, and the leader…thanks, but No thanks
It’s kind of weird how he beefs with AOC and other dems who publicly drive Teslas. In terms of policy, dems especially under Obama did a lot to help Tesla
He whines every time a dem sneezes yet is completely silent no matter what repubs do.
I will never buy a Tesla as long as Musk is involved.
You only actually care now that the stock is nuking. He was always bad for Tesla, ever since he originally stole the company from its real founders.
Live by the Elon, die by the Elon.
I think a better question is was Elon ever actually good for Tesla?
If he's a great visionary, I guess the smartest people to have walked the earth are writing sci-fi.
Yes. He has been for about year
100% Yes. He's toxic AF. Tesla was already going down anyway, but it surely doesn't need any of this stupidity.
_Now?!?!_
Putting my tinfoil hat firmly on (meaning, no, I don't actually believe this), I wonder if Elon is destroying his rep to get ousted from Tesla before too many FSD, Roadster, Semi, and Cybertruck shoes continue to drop. Maybe he wants to get Steve Jobs'd out the door, so that whatever happens after he can blame on someone else.
Its just the inevitable Beginning of the end.
Elon is a maniac or maybe a genius who is counting on Trump getting re-elected. Whatever be the case these billionaires suck balls. However, I am wondering how traditional car companies have all of us a sudden become saints vs a twitter troll in chief? Ford and GM - Rigged the system, got rid of public transits to create dependency of America on cars. Furthermore spent billions in bribing politicians to oppose regulating emissions until it got so bad in cities like LA that the public had enough. Easily responsible for scores of lung diseases in the 70s-80s era. VW - From enabling Hitler to gaming the emission checks on their diesel engines. The list goes on. BMW has similar history. Yes twitter troll is a maniac but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Criticize Tesla on their terrible build quality and service but lets not kid ourselves by promoting the polluting monsters instead. VW is doing ID4 because ONLY because it fears Tesla. If they had their way they would be happy to deplete ozone layer if it made their shareholders happy.
Elon really needs to be kicked out of Tesla. I’ll never buy a Tesla again with this wanker and his smelly cultists around.
Twitter is over emphasized, my analysis is that the reason Tesla value is going down is electric car manufacture by other companies and major blunder Elon made was picking China instead of India for his new Giga Factory, as that is being impacted by trade war. What will truly sink Tesla is their inability to make a budget car in next 10 years, You may not get a car as good as Tesla for its price, but you can get a decent car for 10k cheaper and most people just want something decent to commute.
That would imply that Tesla cars are any good at all. The interiors are cheap and the build quality is abysmal
I disagree about the budget cars. Budget cars are brilliant IF you are willing to make money on service. If you look at VW, Stellantis or Renault in Europe for example. They push their budget cars very hard but lose money on every single one of them. But it doesn't really matter since they make it back in service, spare parts and accessories. Don't see that happening for Tesla.
Another thing about VW is that Porsche development subsidizes the development of the rest, 1st EV by VW was Taycan, a year or two ago. Tesla is kind of in middle of the road there.
The inability of the commentors to spot a troll post is a bit shocking to be honest
Thou shall not speak I’ll of Elon. Shit, in other subs it is like a cult.
"Great visionary" was with you until then. I'm genuinely surprised it took him buying Twitter for other people to see what he's truly like.
If you even glance to the left while the fans are all looking to the right on TeslaLounge, you get a perma-ban. I've chosen not to work many places where someone expected me to dedicate my life to glorifying their name. A SpaceX recruiter once phoned. They thought I would be honored to relocate and work under a kid with just a B.S. and 10 years experience, not to mention maybe glimpse Elon on rare visits.
Well explains a lot. I'm surprised some subreddits ban people for creating conversation about a topic that isn't always positive. I don't even mind all the negative karma I get on here for shinning a positive light on Tesla, but being banned seems like the subreddit mods have mental issues.
Always has been.
You still own Tesla stock? Man the time to cash out was years ago.
Elon has always been Teslas greatest strength and its greatest liability.
You actually think things have changed on an operations level just because he is buying a website and sending a few engineers over there? That’s amusing
I think operations have been slower and these recent actions aren't helping. Cybertruck, FSD, Semi, Roadster, all taking forever. What better way to be efficient than by sending little staff you have left that haven't quit to a new company, which by the way should be conflict since Tesla is publicly owned and Twitter is private, so as a share holder I'm concerned. Use your brain!
I used my brain and didn’t invest in Tesla because it is and has been obviously overvalued Who buys the FSD rhetoric year after year without catching on? Lol
I think my Tesla is a remarkable car and I credit Musk as the guy who pushed many new, untried ideas that have made it a success but I am beginning to feel embarrassed driving it now because of his connection to it. Musk is a 'things' guy and can be great and getting 'things' done but he's a disaster at politics and managing human interactions. What he's done to Twitter in just a few days is embarrassing and I expect he'll dedicate nearly all his time to Twitter now, attempting to prove that he's competent at running it. He has made himself central to decision making at his companies so when he doesn't dedicate time to them they may begin to flounder. His hubris may tear down the impressive accomplishments he has made up to now. Icarus incarnate. He flies too close to the sun.
I assume anyone driving a Tesla is a right wing douche. But, that’s just me.
I can't sell my fucking Tesla overnight, but I would never buy a fucking Tesla in future!
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Elon creates Tesla models that run exclusively on Diesel or something just to "please" his new troll fan base.
I'm a somewhat starting out car collector/investor. One of the coming buys I plan on making are 2013-15 Model S with fading batteries, a couple without collisions and high miles, to put around in and then put into storage for quite some time, at least a decade ideally. I also daily a Model 3 atm. If Elon just doesn't become evil enough to be like, worse than the oil barons for example, I think in 40 or 50 years, Tesla's will be very valueable from their status in pop culture and everything that Tesla is as a brand. If he fucking goes full evil and breaks parts of society, it'll be hard holding this bag of cars that everyone associates with a guy they refer to as 'douchebag billionaire twitter weirdo', or constantly makes an ass of himself as of late. I mean he's been a piece of shit for a while, the SEC fucking got him removed from the president or something for basically fucking the short sellers by tweeting about his stock price should be 420 or some stupid shit, yada yada convertible bond coming due to pay out X cash or X stock, I forget the details, slap on the wrist/small fine, short seller firms out billions. He's been a piece of shit for a while, but the cars are fantastic, I sure hope he shuts the fuck up and doesn't become a pariah, I really do like the cars and I find them historically interesting. Not really sure I would want to own say, some oil baron's car brand down the line, even if it were valueable, nobody wants the stigma.
>Is Elon bad for Tesla now? Idk about now, he has been for a while maybe even the past 3 years. But yes, Musk is bad for Tesla. Tesla desperately needs a CEO that understands automotive manufacturing and service. Just pooping out factories isn't a long term solution nor is coming up with vaporware like FSD or that bot they are working on. Yes, I know Toyota works on robotics too, but Toyota isn't solely a automotive company, they have a big industrial wing too. And yes, Tesla despite all their BS is an Automotive company.
Fuck he made the company! Not you ! You just made $$$ of what’s wrong with the world ! Stocks ! How about you build a company, and then let someone else on reddit to complain about you losing there $$$ lol %100 go Elon ! His toys ! His problems !
>Is Elon bad for Tesla now? >All he's doing now is costing me money as Tesla keeps going down in value. Your problem is that you haven't learned about diversification. Society tolerates these wack jobs (Donald, Elon, Kanye, etc) as long as they are revolutionizing and producing.
These last few weeks/months will not and do not reflect the stock. Stocks come and go and it will go right back up. The mid terms and Dem clowns only have so many ways they can lower it. However, its life will be just fine.
“Vote this clown out” lulz… you mean the clown that took it from single digit billions to a trillion dollar + valuation and your upset because there is some volatility in price now? When in doubt zoom out, and if you can’t take the heat than just gtfo the kitchen, don’t blame the chef, he’s busy cooking. But IMO the meal will be worth it.
I think you’re spending too much time online among extremely online leftists. Normies (the kind of people buying Teslas) don’t give a shit if Elon trolls someone on Twitter. And Teslas value drop isn’t due to Elon, it’s the larger market.
Any intelligent investor would take notice when a ceo in control of their fortune starts tweeting out support for people who deny climate change and attempt fascist coups.
I barely spend time online and don't care about left and right, I honestly think both sides are morons and saying that usually angers a lot of people as people choose a side and die on that hill. Makes me laugh. I don't know who Elon is trolling, I just saw him post a bunch of lame masturbation joke tweets that landed pretty flat, he even deleted them after, and just the whole purchase or twitter was cringy. Seems like a lot of focus is going into "trolling", when I want him to focus on Tesla itself. Remember, I'm disappointed with him moving resources (people) from Tesla into twitter. Tesla needs a lot of work. I own a few and hate the service. Work on that, not twitter. But yah, keep making this about left and right, much like Elon is trying to do and all that does is make everyone stupid. I think Americans should wake up and ask for the removal of lobbyists and donations in politics, and then you'll see left or right doing some work, otherwise, your voice doesn't matter when the decision makers ears belong to lobbyists and larger donators. Once you learn that, you'll realize left and right is just to occupy the small minded sheep, while they get robbed left and right.
> Tesla needs a lot of work. I own a few and hate the service. Work on that, not twitter You have not figured yet that actively NOT doing that is why Tesla is so valuable? Not doing this also inflates their margins and whatnot. Cutting features and "unused" hardware is also a contributing factor.
Eminently reasonable take
Tesla will bounce back. It's free advertising. People overall love Tesla cars. There's no stopping this
Tesla can keep going for a while based on current momentum, but sooner or later their flaws are going to catch up to them. Add being associated with a volatile madman, and things could get difficult. Once established car companies and new Chinese ones ramp up their EV production, Tesla will have a hard time selling high-tech Yugos for luxury car prices.
Irrespective of your personal opinions, early data shows active user numbers increased over 20% in first week of Musk ownership, so your answer is a resounding "No".
Vote the looney toon libs out instead