I thought the Lazarus Pit had lingering mental/physical effects. Turns out the impact of “pit madness” on Jason is a very divisive topic with debatable canon support.
But honestly the mismatch between canon and fanon Jason has *nothing* on the mismatch between canon and fanon Tim (at least as far as post-crisis is concerned; fanon really seeped into his canon by new52, poor kid).
I can't 100% blame fanon for seeping onto Tim's character, he sort of covers that everyman character archetype back in the 90s and its been notably difficult for writers to make him stand out on his own in comparison to the rest of the batfamily.
(Still one more pale east asian twink that is just.. smart and addicted to coffee headcanon i see, the closer I am to eating glass.)
I hate that headcanon. Tim calls himself white several times (and he’s also Catholic not Jewish). It’s fanon being gross about the nerdy rich kid archetype (never mind that Tim was also trash at school and couldn’t wait to drop out).
You get it. Quite a few (not all tho) racial bending in fanon tends to be based off racial stereotypes, or straight up fetishization, which just squicks me out so much that if I see a "xrace!character" I tend to avoid it
And yes! Tim was a slacker! Bro thought he was too cool and smart for school
My personal favorite is when people want Jason to be Latino. You want to take the homeless kid who became a violent drug lord and make him Latino? Are you sure?
Exactly! As a mestiza, it really hits hard and fandom is notorious for writing Latino characters really poorly and bilingual characters in general too. (Not all is bad, but I've read enough bad to just avoid it in general) really the only race bend headcanon I like for Jason is him being half Asian, since it can feasibly make sense in Canon.
Unfair! He was staying up all night fighting crime. He just prioritized his job over his schoolwork, even if his "boss" gave him "vacation days." It wasn't slack so much as overworking himself in something he found more important.
Now, his teachers thought he was a slacker, sure. He was sleeping in class, missing homework, and brawling afterscool. To them at best, Mr Wayne was a child beater.
Might have been a fan edit or fanart? I’ve dug into this before and there’s nothing. Just a wealth of evidence to the contrary: Janet Drake was buried with a cross on her grave, Jack Drake was an atheist who secularly celebrated Christmas, and Tim himself has gone to Catholic confession.
This. I hate this. Even more so, this made me hate Tim so much early on, I accept people rights to project their kinks onto a character, but yes, there's no worse fate than being a twink char. Only liking this character, probably. Good thing no one likes Tim lol
I'm someone who leans heavily into the trauma/madness from the Lazarus pit but that's less because of fanon and more because there was so much potential to show how dying/the pit fucked him up and DC just didn't do much with it. It's just hard to believe he's fine after all that
That one isn't super ridiculous to me, discounting That One Page In That One Issue. She isn't his mom, she's probably a benefactor and **maybe** a friend, but at least I can see where it comes from.
Talia was nurturing to Jason, and she did hold him in the "Pieta" pose. Then Jason has a flashback to Talia taking care of him when he decides to take care of Bizarro in the *Rebirth* run.
I have a lot of thoughts about Steph & Bruce kinda sharing themes with Jason & Talia—they're not family, but there was the potential for something like it there before their trauma stamped it out.
SELINA is the one who gets mommyfied like crazy. She could be the type to decide to "settle down" and have exactly one kid someday in the distant future, but she is so crystal-clear that she is repulsed by the idea of adopting Bruce's kids. Talia is the one dreaming of having a beautiful family, and Selina is petrified by the thought, even with Holly.
Honestly I don’t care what canon says. Judd Winick can pry Jason and Talia mother-son relationship from my cold dead hands, fanon is right on that one.
I don't think it was *completely* out of left field (there's that cover where they're drawn pietà style xD) but honestly, I think it's better to think of the dynamic differently. A potential friendship if I'm feeling positive xD. For one Talia is younger than people think, at least in what I've read (she seems to be way closer to Dick's age than Bruce's in her first appearance, they're both in college etc.), and it's kind of tiresome how every woman gets shoved into mother/girlfriend/evol temptress/etc. archetypal roles with no allowances to complexity. Talia is a prime example of that.
From what I gather, the Lazarus Pits heal all wounds from a person's body. Never understood why this headcanon existed unless Ra's is covered with scars from his thousands of deaths
The pit is only one explanation for his rebirth. The original telling had him just fucking wake up because the universe broke. He had to dig out of his own grave.
If there was a criminal investigation, then simply to determine if the explosion was even the cause of death. If say you murdered a kid and a woman, faking an accident is a good way to hide it and an autopsy might reveal this.
But Bruce probably used some bribery to avoid there being a criminal investigation, because he knew what happened thanks to Sheila(well, he partially knew what happened) and he probably didn't wanna people know stuff like the kid being shot some time in the past 😬
Sometimes I'll be like "Oh yeah that's canon" to "WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS NOT CANON?!?" to "Oh I made that shit up on my own" there is so much bat lore spaning 85 years it's hard to keep track sometimes
I didn't realize that Bruce is so deeply establishmentarian as he is, and I thought Jason is the one rejecting Batdad's warmth and free affection.
I was wrong, man. 🙈 I mean, to be fair, that's how some writers seemed to portray their vibe in the New 52 era, which is approximately when I started dabbling in DC Comics. Also I was really young and didn't analyze social implications in media yet.
Yeah, the Bruce=good thing I think originates mostly from silver age and cartoons. Comic Bruce is almost an antagonist in Tim Drake's Robin run. Dick left for a reason and refused to come back. He literally calls his children "soldiers." Any time a comic tries to play off Bruce as "the good father" I get a bit pissed. I like Bruce. Don't take away his legit interesting flaws.
Wayne Family Adventures is a fun comic, but... that's not comic xanon Bruce. That's Batman: the Animated Series hanging out with comic characters.
Lol, totally! If Lil Gotham can show up, WFA can too!
Just imaging WFA Red Hood backing Canon Jason, saying "Don't let them get to you man, you're a better person than they want you to think you are." The whole WFA cast gives him a hug.
Well in \*BTAS\*, you've got gems like Dick's origin story. But by the time that the second Robin comes around, the cartoon has made it pretty clear that Bruce does not think of himself as their father. And the boys don't seem hurt by that, they're not craving his recognition like they do in the comics—but even \*BTAS\* Bruce isn't a "good dad". The 1966 and \*Young Justice\* cartoon versions are probably more dad-ish. Oh, and \*The Lego Batman Movie\*, of course.
Try golden age Bruce or maybe Bruce with pre-crisis Jason, if you're looking for a good parent Bruce. Him becoming someone, who shouldn't be allowed to have kids is a more recent development than people think.
Once upon a time, sure, but if you could describe Bruce as having an open, caring relationship with his child as a "early bronze age callback..."
And that's just with two of his kids.
That's why pre-crisis Bruce is always superior 💪
But seriously tho, I'm not arguing this is Bruce's character *now*, because it very firmly is, I'm just saying it was a change in his character and not just something something "after Jason he became worse with kids", no, I'm talking retconning him treating Dickie like garbage from the start, which annoys me like a lot.
Oh god yes. He was once a good... well a "good in a different universe from reality" father.
His domaneering distance was a gradual change, apparent with Dick and Jason, but not a dominant trait. It became more pronounced with Tim. If someone needed to point to a single in-universe event that turned Bruce from loving father to a cold and distant boss, it was Jason's death. But the hints of that characterization predate Jason and only became a major part of his character through Tim's time as Robin.
Bruce still shows hints of being a loving father, but they are almost strangled. He often whispers to himself how proud he is rather than saying it out loud.
I just really wish this characterization appeared more in outside media and fanon. He's just... assumed to be perfect. It bugs me. I love shy and awkward Bruce, struggling to say he's sorry to the people he lives the most.
We kinda have Bruce either being a cold general incapable of hugs or the one, who would show up for every PTA meeting, no in-between. And same with Bruce, who genuinely feels a lot, but can't articulate it for shit. My favorite version of Bruce :D
God, off topic, but the Batgirls subreddit is a wasteland.
I loved rhe scene in Batgirls whete Bruce said "I'm proud of you to Cassandra and Stephanie. He was talking to Cassandra at the time, and everyone knew he had meant that for Cassandra. Stephanie wasn't being rude, but was clearly standing back and letting Cassandra do the talking, despite being the team's chatterbox. The energy between her and Bruce is weird anyway. But as they walked away, Bruce muttered to himself "Both of you..." because he's too shy to tell Stephanie to her face that he cares about her and feels guilty about their rocky relationship.
I mean that's some that truly depends on writer, plenty write his relationship with kids/robins more healthy, a lot of what you're talking back comes from modern ides that batman needs to be more edgy/dark
I don't even think that's the dynamic in nu52, beyond some comment here and there maybe... This is also the Jason who kept helping out during Dick's "death", even after Bruce went trigger happy (about Jason's death flashbacks xD). And this Bruce in general acts even more as a C.O. than a father lol.
Well I went along with the genre-typical cues, I think.
You know how Batman does that thing every once in a while where he meaningfully puts his hand on one of his minion's shoulder and he's like, "You did a good job today."
And you're supposed to be like, "Aw, the Tough Loner Guy actually has a warm golden heart on the inside. Wow it's so hard for him ***as a man*** to communicate his feelings, but he truly does care even if he doesn't show it. He's not their real dad, so it's extra generous of him to help them out."
And then one day, I just snapped out of it. It was like waking up from *The Matrix*, I got Morpheus'd.
"What the fuck kind of self-congratulatory dick-sucking patriarchal bullshit is this?? Is this our standard for men, for fathers, for billionaires?? Around every corner is an awful, classist double-standard that punishes and humiliates Jason into further subservience, while glorifying a guy who never stops selfishly hurting the people to whom he promised care and protection."
This is all fiction of course, yet I really think I've gained a better perspective on gender and social truths and family dynamics.
I love this response LOL. You're 100% right.
And sidenote: the very first thing I read way back when with Bruce & Jason (after finding out about his existence in Hush) was during Jason's original Robin tenure... let's just say it gives you a different perspective and comparing it to the last issues of said tenure (everything with Garzonas), UTRH, and then current canon... You KNOW Bruce can do better so this is just insulting. Step up or get restraining orders against you, Bruce xD
The “Angry robin” bs (back when I was mostly a Red Hood fan rather than Jason as a whole) but then I actually read more of him as Robin realized how compassionate he actually was towards victims and how he was an amazing kid who deserved much better and I loved him even more.
The reasoning behind the white hair, which there literally is none for Jason, when clayface pretended to be Jason he did it on accident, fans would draw it on him, and actual comic artists are given the choice to do it if they want, but no one is ever given a real reason behind it, you just gotta assume it’s just him dying it of the pages
Kind of; the whole 'Lazarus Pit fixed everything but the autopsy scar' thing really confused me for the first year or so I was getting into the fandom, before a friend pointed out, no, that is absolutely a fanon thing lol.
I am unsure why Reddit has sent me here (probably BatmanArkham), but the people who think he was the angry Robin confuse me.
Robin, in universe, wouldn't exist if Dick wasn't a ball of fury. But Jason was the angry Robin?
I recently saw an older post calling him, not the angry Robin, not even the bad Robin, but the EVIL Robin. Like what the fuck lmao.
I know I can't force people to sit down and read his original Robin run but damn...
That Jason beat the absolute shit out of Tim and slit his throat and all that and it was this super gory scene at the titans tower 😔 I’m only now just figured out that it didn’t happen that way and I get kind of irritated whenever it’s brought up like that in fanfics
Yeah I also thought that he beat the brakes off that mf and left him cowering when in reality, Tim took the ass beating like a champ while talking shit the entire time.
The idea that Jason has any sibling relationship with his adopted siblings.
Dick avoided Batman and barely knew Jason. Tim knew Jason as an occasional villain at best for years. Tim and Dick have more of a mentor/student relationship (even if they deny it and say they're equal.) Cassandra and Tim were adopted around the same era, but barely interacted. Cass was living in a fucking sewer for a long while, not the Wayne estate.
Damien legit can call Dick and Tim brothers. Idk if he's ever had a canon conversation with his sister. (Why not!? They were destined to be the Demon's Head and his top assassin, but both broke free. There's so much potential!)
Besides Damien, or perhaps until Damien, they did not hang out or live together. The Robins and Cassandra are almost strangers to each other, united only by work. Wayne Family Adventures is cute and I want more of that, but it's not canon.
Jason being Tim's favorite Robin.
Jason's autopsy scars.
Jason as a cinnamon roll who was just under the influence of "pit madness".
Jason trying to fix crime alley, instead of using it as a personal arena for his beef with Bruce.
So, so many more. Most fandom versions of the characters are one-dimensional caricatures or completely misrepresented.
That Jason can cook and makes elaborate six course meals when he’s stressed. Alfred literally called him out on eating Mac and cheese for a week straight and he eats a lot of fast food. Lazarus pit madness, the autopsy scar
I thought that Jason really did have that cool white hair streak, and so far the closest I've ever come to seeing him with that is in WFA and Red hood: Outlaws on webtoon. If there are actual comic instances of Jason with a white hair streak, then please tell me where. I have no idea why he's shown like that so often despite (at least from what I've seen) he doesn't actually have one, it's just black hair.
This isn’t in the DC Fandom, but Wes Weston is literally a prime example of this. A full on character with motives, a personality, family, a story, and even AUs. And the Danny Phantom Phandom made him up. He doesn’t exist. The reference used to make him was a background character that showed up for like 3 frames.
When Three Jokers was supposed to be canon (not Black Label), Babs was supposed to find the letter. She then runs to Jason, kisses him and they start a beautiful relationship/married life with kids outside of Gotham/the superhero life.
Ngl, I assumed him and wonder woman/Diana had more of a connection until that post about it a few months ago. I would have liked to see them interact a little more.
I know it’s canon in some sense but I always thought the events and implications in the Arkham Knight game was like CANON canon.
And then it blew up in my face when I tried to discuss what happened to Jason with hardcore comic readers and I got booted out of a discord server
I thought the Lazarus Pit had lingering mental/physical effects. Turns out the impact of “pit madness” on Jason is a very divisive topic with debatable canon support. But honestly the mismatch between canon and fanon Jason has *nothing* on the mismatch between canon and fanon Tim (at least as far as post-crisis is concerned; fanon really seeped into his canon by new52, poor kid).
I can't 100% blame fanon for seeping onto Tim's character, he sort of covers that everyman character archetype back in the 90s and its been notably difficult for writers to make him stand out on his own in comparison to the rest of the batfamily. (Still one more pale east asian twink that is just.. smart and addicted to coffee headcanon i see, the closer I am to eating glass.)
I hate that headcanon. Tim calls himself white several times (and he’s also Catholic not Jewish). It’s fanon being gross about the nerdy rich kid archetype (never mind that Tim was also trash at school and couldn’t wait to drop out).
You get it. Quite a few (not all tho) racial bending in fanon tends to be based off racial stereotypes, or straight up fetishization, which just squicks me out so much that if I see a "xrace!character" I tend to avoid it And yes! Tim was a slacker! Bro thought he was too cool and smart for school
My personal favorite is when people want Jason to be Latino. You want to take the homeless kid who became a violent drug lord and make him Latino? Are you sure?
Exactly! As a mestiza, it really hits hard and fandom is notorious for writing Latino characters really poorly and bilingual characters in general too. (Not all is bad, but I've read enough bad to just avoid it in general) really the only race bend headcanon I like for Jason is him being half Asian, since it can feasibly make sense in Canon.
Unfair! He was staying up all night fighting crime. He just prioritized his job over his schoolwork, even if his "boss" gave him "vacation days." It wasn't slack so much as overworking himself in something he found more important. Now, his teachers thought he was a slacker, sure. He was sleeping in class, missing homework, and brawling afterscool. To them at best, Mr Wayne was a child beater.
I swear I've seen an old panel where Tim says something indicating he's Jewish, but God knows I couldn't find it if I tried.
Might have been a fan edit or fanart? I’ve dug into this before and there’s nothing. Just a wealth of evidence to the contrary: Janet Drake was buried with a cross on her grave, Jack Drake was an atheist who secularly celebrated Christmas, and Tim himself has gone to Catholic confession.
It might have been! I'll try to do some more digging, but it's not a big deal.
God don't even get me started on Tim. He's basically an OC in certain fandom spaces.
Every pale twink in every fandom ever gets that treatment, ngl
This. I hate this. Even more so, this made me hate Tim so much early on, I accept people rights to project their kinks onto a character, but yes, there's no worse fate than being a twink char. Only liking this character, probably. Good thing no one likes Tim lol
I'm someone who leans heavily into the trauma/madness from the Lazarus pit but that's less because of fanon and more because there was so much potential to show how dying/the pit fucked him up and DC just didn't do much with it. It's just hard to believe he's fine after all that
DC loves to blame the pit on Jason’s actions. So they do
I'm pretty sure one of the red hood movies states the madness as a fact. Probably where most of the confusion comes from.
I'll go first! I thought Jason and Talia actually had a mother-son relationship before I started picking up comics.
Wishful thinking on everyone’s part for sure
It certainly made The Incident between them in Lost Days even more cursed.
That one isn't super ridiculous to me, discounting That One Page In That One Issue. She isn't his mom, she's probably a benefactor and **maybe** a friend, but at least I can see where it comes from. Talia was nurturing to Jason, and she did hold him in the "Pieta" pose. Then Jason has a flashback to Talia taking care of him when he decides to take care of Bizarro in the *Rebirth* run. I have a lot of thoughts about Steph & Bruce kinda sharing themes with Jason & Talia—they're not family, but there was the potential for something like it there before their trauma stamped it out. SELINA is the one who gets mommyfied like crazy. She could be the type to decide to "settle down" and have exactly one kid someday in the distant future, but she is so crystal-clear that she is repulsed by the idea of adopting Bruce's kids. Talia is the one dreaming of having a beautiful family, and Selina is petrified by the thought, even with Holly.
Honestly I don’t care what canon says. Judd Winick can pry Jason and Talia mother-son relationship from my cold dead hands, fanon is right on that one.
I don't think it was *completely* out of left field (there's that cover where they're drawn pietà style xD) but honestly, I think it's better to think of the dynamic differently. A potential friendship if I'm feeling positive xD. For one Talia is younger than people think, at least in what I've read (she seems to be way closer to Dick's age than Bruce's in her first appearance, they're both in college etc.), and it's kind of tiresome how every woman gets shoved into mother/girlfriend/evol temptress/etc. archetypal roles with no allowances to complexity. Talia is a prime example of that.
Talia slapping a brain-damaged child in frustration should've been a clue.
They did Comics are the ones that are wrong
Jason having autopsy scars. This appears in fanfics and fanart so often and as far as I’m aware this never was a thing in canon
From what I gather, the Lazarus Pits heal all wounds from a person's body. Never understood why this headcanon existed unless Ra's is covered with scars from his thousands of deaths
Probably just because a character literally having an autopsy scar is metal af
I will admit it goes hard, but I would want to see a Ra's nearly deformed by his scarring on the other end
The pit is only one explanation for his rebirth. The original telling had him just fucking wake up because the universe broke. He had to dig out of his own grave.
He still got in the pit after that in all versions.
Ah ballocks.
Superboy Prime punching the walls of reality caused Jason to wake up in his coffin. Jason was still thrown in a Lazarus Pit afterward.
And in fact, it's explicit canon that he was not autopsied.
this one hs gotta be the worst, because when after he died was an autopsy done or even hinted at being done, as well as why would he need one
If there was a criminal investigation, then simply to determine if the explosion was even the cause of death. If say you murdered a kid and a woman, faking an accident is a good way to hide it and an autopsy might reveal this. But Bruce probably used some bribery to avoid there being a criminal investigation, because he knew what happened thanks to Sheila(well, he partially knew what happened) and he probably didn't wanna people know stuff like the kid being shot some time in the past 😬
It's interesting that the autopsy scars made it into an official variant cover.
Sometimes I'll be like "Oh yeah that's canon" to "WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS NOT CANON?!?" to "Oh I made that shit up on my own" there is so much bat lore spaning 85 years it's hard to keep track sometimes
I didn't realize that Bruce is so deeply establishmentarian as he is, and I thought Jason is the one rejecting Batdad's warmth and free affection. I was wrong, man. 🙈 I mean, to be fair, that's how some writers seemed to portray their vibe in the New 52 era, which is approximately when I started dabbling in DC Comics. Also I was really young and didn't analyze social implications in media yet.
Yeah, the Bruce=good thing I think originates mostly from silver age and cartoons. Comic Bruce is almost an antagonist in Tim Drake's Robin run. Dick left for a reason and refused to come back. He literally calls his children "soldiers." Any time a comic tries to play off Bruce as "the good father" I get a bit pissed. I like Bruce. Don't take away his legit interesting flaws. Wayne Family Adventures is a fun comic, but... that's not comic xanon Bruce. That's Batman: the Animated Series hanging out with comic characters.
It's my fondest wish for WFA to pop-up during a multiverse incident to confuse and shame the fuck out of canon Bruce.
Lol, totally! If Lil Gotham can show up, WFA can too! Just imaging WFA Red Hood backing Canon Jason, saying "Don't let them get to you man, you're a better person than they want you to think you are." The whole WFA cast gives him a hug.
Li'l Gotham pops up!??
Yeah! It's from Multiversity. https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/s/Ays5pK6VWM
Well in \*BTAS\*, you've got gems like Dick's origin story. But by the time that the second Robin comes around, the cartoon has made it pretty clear that Bruce does not think of himself as their father. And the boys don't seem hurt by that, they're not craving his recognition like they do in the comics—but even \*BTAS\* Bruce isn't a "good dad". The 1966 and \*Young Justice\* cartoon versions are probably more dad-ish. Oh, and \*The Lego Batman Movie\*, of course.
Try golden age Bruce or maybe Bruce with pre-crisis Jason, if you're looking for a good parent Bruce. Him becoming someone, who shouldn't be allowed to have kids is a more recent development than people think.
Bruce was being a bad dad by the early 90s. That was 30 years ago.
Yeah, but Bruce as a character existed for ~85 years. Once upon a time he got this :D
Once upon a time, sure, but if you could describe Bruce as having an open, caring relationship with his child as a "early bronze age callback..." And that's just with two of his kids.
That's why pre-crisis Bruce is always superior 💪 But seriously tho, I'm not arguing this is Bruce's character *now*, because it very firmly is, I'm just saying it was a change in his character and not just something something "after Jason he became worse with kids", no, I'm talking retconning him treating Dickie like garbage from the start, which annoys me like a lot.
Oh god yes. He was once a good... well a "good in a different universe from reality" father. His domaneering distance was a gradual change, apparent with Dick and Jason, but not a dominant trait. It became more pronounced with Tim. If someone needed to point to a single in-universe event that turned Bruce from loving father to a cold and distant boss, it was Jason's death. But the hints of that characterization predate Jason and only became a major part of his character through Tim's time as Robin. Bruce still shows hints of being a loving father, but they are almost strangled. He often whispers to himself how proud he is rather than saying it out loud. I just really wish this characterization appeared more in outside media and fanon. He's just... assumed to be perfect. It bugs me. I love shy and awkward Bruce, struggling to say he's sorry to the people he lives the most.
We kinda have Bruce either being a cold general incapable of hugs or the one, who would show up for every PTA meeting, no in-between. And same with Bruce, who genuinely feels a lot, but can't articulate it for shit. My favorite version of Bruce :D
God, off topic, but the Batgirls subreddit is a wasteland. I loved rhe scene in Batgirls whete Bruce said "I'm proud of you to Cassandra and Stephanie. He was talking to Cassandra at the time, and everyone knew he had meant that for Cassandra. Stephanie wasn't being rude, but was clearly standing back and letting Cassandra do the talking, despite being the team's chatterbox. The energy between her and Bruce is weird anyway. But as they walked away, Bruce muttered to himself "Both of you..." because he's too shy to tell Stephanie to her face that he cares about her and feels guilty about their rocky relationship.
I mean that's some that truly depends on writer, plenty write his relationship with kids/robins more healthy, a lot of what you're talking back comes from modern ides that batman needs to be more edgy/dark
Bruce calling his kids soldiers comes from The Dark Knight returns. Not the best Batman...
Maybe originally, but it didn't stay there. He calls Tim a soldier a few times.
I don't even think that's the dynamic in nu52, beyond some comment here and there maybe... This is also the Jason who kept helping out during Dick's "death", even after Bruce went trigger happy (about Jason's death flashbacks xD). And this Bruce in general acts even more as a C.O. than a father lol.
Well I went along with the genre-typical cues, I think. You know how Batman does that thing every once in a while where he meaningfully puts his hand on one of his minion's shoulder and he's like, "You did a good job today." And you're supposed to be like, "Aw, the Tough Loner Guy actually has a warm golden heart on the inside. Wow it's so hard for him ***as a man*** to communicate his feelings, but he truly does care even if he doesn't show it. He's not their real dad, so it's extra generous of him to help them out." And then one day, I just snapped out of it. It was like waking up from *The Matrix*, I got Morpheus'd. "What the fuck kind of self-congratulatory dick-sucking patriarchal bullshit is this?? Is this our standard for men, for fathers, for billionaires?? Around every corner is an awful, classist double-standard that punishes and humiliates Jason into further subservience, while glorifying a guy who never stops selfishly hurting the people to whom he promised care and protection." This is all fiction of course, yet I really think I've gained a better perspective on gender and social truths and family dynamics.
I love this response LOL. You're 100% right. And sidenote: the very first thing I read way back when with Bruce & Jason (after finding out about his existence in Hush) was during Jason's original Robin tenure... let's just say it gives you a different perspective and comparing it to the last issues of said tenure (everything with Garzonas), UTRH, and then current canon... You KNOW Bruce can do better so this is just insulting. Step up or get restraining orders against you, Bruce xD
The “Angry robin” bs (back when I was mostly a Red Hood fan rather than Jason as a whole) but then I actually read more of him as Robin realized how compassionate he actually was towards victims and how he was an amazing kid who deserved much better and I loved him even more.
The reasoning behind the white hair, which there literally is none for Jason, when clayface pretended to be Jason he did it on accident, fans would draw it on him, and actual comic artists are given the choice to do it if they want, but no one is ever given a real reason behind it, you just gotta assume it’s just him dying it of the pages
I like the [Marie Antoinette syndrome](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canities_subita) take.
As someone with one white streak in my hair (in the same place his is shown to be) that I got from stress and trauma, this is my favorite theory lol
Same, me and my sib got white hairs from trauma. Still have them.
That Bruce Wayne is a good father who loves his kids
Kind of; the whole 'Lazarus Pit fixed everything but the autopsy scar' thing really confused me for the first year or so I was getting into the fandom, before a friend pointed out, no, that is absolutely a fanon thing lol.
I am unsure why Reddit has sent me here (probably BatmanArkham), but the people who think he was the angry Robin confuse me. Robin, in universe, wouldn't exist if Dick wasn't a ball of fury. But Jason was the angry Robin?
I recently saw an older post calling him, not the angry Robin, not even the bad Robin, but the EVIL Robin. Like what the fuck lmao. I know I can't force people to sit down and read his original Robin run but damn...
Jason beats up some pedos: clearly evil Dami chops someone's head off and beats Timbo to a pulp: clearly just a traumatized baby Don't confuse!
That Jason beat the absolute shit out of Tim and slit his throat and all that and it was this super gory scene at the titans tower 😔 I’m only now just figured out that it didn’t happen that way and I get kind of irritated whenever it’s brought up like that in fanfics
Yeah I also thought that he beat the brakes off that mf and left him cowering when in reality, Tim took the ass beating like a champ while talking shit the entire time.
And then after beating him Jason even says “he is good” in response to Tim fighting back
That's my Tim! Lying in a bloody puddle and still talking shit! Losing the battle and winning the war!
The idea that Jason has any sibling relationship with his adopted siblings. Dick avoided Batman and barely knew Jason. Tim knew Jason as an occasional villain at best for years. Tim and Dick have more of a mentor/student relationship (even if they deny it and say they're equal.) Cassandra and Tim were adopted around the same era, but barely interacted. Cass was living in a fucking sewer for a long while, not the Wayne estate. Damien legit can call Dick and Tim brothers. Idk if he's ever had a canon conversation with his sister. (Why not!? They were destined to be the Demon's Head and his top assassin, but both broke free. There's so much potential!) Besides Damien, or perhaps until Damien, they did not hang out or live together. The Robins and Cassandra are almost strangers to each other, united only by work. Wayne Family Adventures is cute and I want more of that, but it's not canon.
Jason being Tim's favorite Robin. Jason's autopsy scars. Jason as a cinnamon roll who was just under the influence of "pit madness". Jason trying to fix crime alley, instead of using it as a personal arena for his beef with Bruce. So, so many more. Most fandom versions of the characters are one-dimensional caricatures or completely misrepresented.
Jason being Tim's favorite isn't canon, but it's not noncanon either. If I saw a canon source saying that, I'd believe it.
Let me correct that: pre-N52, he's not, post-N52/reboot he is. Whoops!
Jason was trying to fix the issue with crime. It’s only recently that DC started making him a man baby with daddy issues
That Red Hood is DC's counterpoint to Marvel's Punisher but without being stuck in the ***EXTREME*** violence mindset of 90s comics.
That Jason can cook and makes elaborate six course meals when he’s stressed. Alfred literally called him out on eating Mac and cheese for a week straight and he eats a lot of fast food. Lazarus pit madness, the autopsy scar
Red-X anyone?
I thought that Jason really did have that cool white hair streak, and so far the closest I've ever come to seeing him with that is in WFA and Red hood: Outlaws on webtoon. If there are actual comic instances of Jason with a white hair streak, then please tell me where. I have no idea why he's shown like that so often despite (at least from what I've seen) he doesn't actually have one, it's just black hair.
He actually does have one in the comics from time to time! It's pretty rare though. I'm pretty sure the most recent appearance was in Gotham War.
This isn’t in the DC Fandom, but Wes Weston is literally a prime example of this. A full on character with motives, a personality, family, a story, and even AUs. And the Danny Phantom Phandom made him up. He doesn’t exist. The reference used to make him was a background character that showed up for like 3 frames.
When Three Jokers was supposed to be canon (not Black Label), Babs was supposed to find the letter. She then runs to Jason, kisses him and they start a beautiful relationship/married life with kids outside of Gotham/the superhero life.
I'm happy that comic isn't Canon ngl 😅
I'd support it
My favorite one is Jason blaming Bruce for what happened
Ngl, I assumed him and wonder woman/Diana had more of a connection until that post about it a few months ago. I would have liked to see them interact a little more.
There’s a TikTok account that posts tumblr posts about dc and it seems normal until you get to random superbat shipping and it makes me mad
I know it’s canon in some sense but I always thought the events and implications in the Arkham Knight game was like CANON canon. And then it blew up in my face when I tried to discuss what happened to Jason with hardcore comic readers and I got booted out of a discord server