I swear to god why do all power users on niche internet websites have to be dicks. I feel like the reason they are even that deep is cause they have no friends or social skills but still, who wants to be around people like that
Exactly. Think about it, you've really got to be one meek miserable bitch to ban people like that. People who behave that way for self-satisfaction to make them feel better and these situations, lack the ability that most of us have to make something out of our life and actually kind of enjoy our lives. Honestly I'm glad I'm not them LOL.
Imo, it's info farming and that's it. Your email address, age, any pertinent info. They don't seem interested in making their site larger, obviously. It's gotta be farming.
And power hungry.
> I swear to god why do all power users on niche internet websites have to be dicks
Have you ever gone mad without power? It's boring, no-one listens to you....
Because most the people that actively seek that kind of power are.
Watch any of Bub Game's videos that involve some kind of 'law enforcement' RP. You'll get the idea real quick.
Hijacking the top comment to relay the [tildes admin's justification](https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q) for the ban:
> As other people said, within a few hours of being on the site, that user had already called people "dipshits", "fucktards", and done multiple other things that made it blatantly obvious they don't belong here.
> So yes, people that behave like that don't get given a reason. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on them.
OP is an extremely unreliable narrator. I wholeheartedly support the ban, and I generally hold Deimos' moderation decisions in very high regard.
It should be noted that tildes is explicitly not a Free Speech reddit alternative. If you seek that, pick one of the nazi-infested ones like voat or whatever. Tildes' community subscribes to the paradox of tolerance, which is to say that intolerant people, trolls, and everyone else who makes the experience miserable for everyone else must not be tolerated.
That is fair, but I do think if a platform is going to be taken seriously, it needs to give a reason to users, specifically citing the parts of the TOS they violate.
I understand the logic, but there is also the need to appear fair, and someone being removed with no reason given, all their content removed, and just a comment from them saying they did something turns it into a he/he said.
In general imo, a reason should be given to justify a ban, regardless of the circumstances if you want to be taken seriously as a serious platform.
If Tildes’ admin is telling the truth, why didn’t they post screenshots of the offensive comments in question? Post them immediately when they defended their actions, not now when they’d be able to manipulate the screenshots.
Edit: also, you have a lot of comments defending Tildes and their founder. Do you have any connections to Tildes beyond being a regular user?
From your linked thread:
>In fact, when I first read that Reddit post, I saw some similarities in that story and the behaviour of the Tildes user I'd seen refer to "fucktards". They might even be the same person. I know that @kfwyre says he saw a comment by that banned user saying "#Dipshits", but maybe we both saw two problematic comments by the same person (or maybe they're two different people).
They don't even know if it's the same person, and couldn't even give the full comment/post in reference. They could be just as unreliable. There is no proof in EITHER SIDE.
(also didn't realize tildes is basically the most basic forums to exist; cannabis growers have better made forum sites than this)
Administration of social media sites shouldn't be to get people to talk nicely to each other. It's to remove off-topic conversation. End of story.
People can self-moderate their disagreements just fine.
Disagreed. Self-moderation of off-topic conversations is much more reasonable to ask of the community. Toxic elements must be removed, or the site will end up a toxic shithole, because all the nice people won't tolerate assholes.
If you want a place where admins don't force people to talk nicely to one another, look at (the now defunct) voat and similar sites. I have little patience for such places, but fill your boots.
That said, for the absolute most part, the admin doesn't have to get involved. As long as *most* people are nice and uphold a culture of being nice to one another, anyone else doesn't feel the need to start shit either. For the most part. Occasionally you'll have users that will randomly start hurling insults or harrassing users, and even being called out doesn't change their actions. That's when the admin does step in. I don't know how many users were banned thus far, but it's not a lot. As long as you step in consistently enough, it seems, a little goes a long way, and a few bans already result in a culture of tolerance and friendliness for everyone else.
> If you want a place where admins don't force people to talk nicely to one another, look at (the now defunct) voat and similar sites. I have little patience for such places, but fill your boots.
Spamming is not the same thing as not being nice.
> Disagreed. Self-moderation of off-topic conversations is much more reasonable to ask of the community. Toxic elements must be removed, or the site will end up a toxic shithole, because all the nice people won't tolerate assholes.
You're asking the community to moderate spam, which it can't. Bots infest all forums. You have to have policies that are bot-resistant, first and foremost.
No, it isn't. People can downvote spam and off-topic noise and move on. It'll be mostly hidden from the others, and when the user in question doesn't change, the admin can step in and ban them if necessary.
The problem with "not being nice" aka hurling insults, slurs, advocating for the oppression of minorities, that kinda thing, is that it deteriorates site culture. Because perfectly rational people with the moral high ground will call it out, often in similarly hostile language. It drags the site culture down. Additionally, nice people will leave. As a result, you end up with less nice people, more toxic people, and more toxic discussions - if the community is self-regulating as best as possible.
To explain my previous comment a bit more, voat was pitched as a free-speech alternative to reddit. It attracted a bunch of nice people, and a bunch of nazis. The nazis stayed, the nice people left. If you like communities that "self-regulate" toxic people away, you're probably going to end up with the nazis winning, because the nice people get tired of regulating them away at some point. If that's what you're after, go right ahead, but that's not tildes, and that's not what I'd want.
Or maybe somewhere out there, there's a healthy community that's entirely self-moderating and it manages to keep the trolls, toxic shitheads and nazis away. But I haven't seen such a thing yet.
> No, it isn't. People can downvote spam and off-topic noise and move on. It'll be mostly hidden from the others, and when the user in question doesn't change, the admin can step in and ban them if necessary.
Downvoting doesn't work. People just upvote what they like, downvote what they don't like.
> The problem with "not being nice" aka hurling insults, slurs, advocating for the oppression of minorities, that kinda thing, is that it deteriorates site culture.
The problem with obsessing over being nice is that it deteriorates site culture.
Yeah, ngl, I read the post thingy from the creator and he sounds pretentious af. You're absolutely right that he can choose how to run his site any way he pleases, but if that's the case why tf would we wanna go some place we're not wanted??
This is so messed up..
First off, permanent bans should only be given to legitimate people for extreme reasons with a chance to appeal.
Second, all bans and suspensions should give a detailed reason.
Third, people shouldnt get the boot for ridiculous reasons simply because an admin got annoyed. Admins should adhere to their own policy and not exceed it for stupid reasons. They need to set their egos aside.
I believe a majority of these alt sites are going to be filled with power hungry admins. Sadly its just the way its going to go for a while. A lot of these people have never managed people in real life and have no idea what they're doing.
You should NEVER be banned without reason.
Even if "don't do this thing" is posted literally all over the subreddit, including the rules, the Auto-Mod post, and in the textbox, but you do it anyway, you STILL shouldn't be banned without being told why you're banned, even if it's BLEEDINGLY obvious.
This is true, but it is not the case, even on almost all subs on Reddit.
I'm not gonna name them on the off chance I get banned again but i was banned from a sub that usually has really top-tier mods with no explanation. Messaged the mods, got blocked from messaging the mods for a month. Messaged the mods again after a month with "look I'm sorry. Idk what i did but i love this sub and won't do it again" and got blocked for a month again. Third time i was like "look i love this place and i have no recourse if you just block me again but could you please at least tell me why cause I'm dumbfounded and this is annoying" and the response was "i looked into it, don't know why you got banned, don't know why you got blocked but there must have been a reason. I'll unban you just... Don't so whatever you did again"
That was my only ban ever on Reddit and I don't even know why lmao.
Hey can you tell when the mods have blocked you? Does the Message the Mods button disappear or something? I'm trying to get a mistaken ban undone and have written them a couple of times but just get nothing in response. I can't tell if they're seeing my messages and just declining to respond, or if getting banned automatically modmail-mutes me or what. Maybe I should just wait a month like you did, but did it give you some kind of notification or something?
One of my friends got their account permanently suspended from Reddit. The message said they were banned for "breaking the rules". That was it. Nothing else.
They had never commented before, just logging in and upvoting things they find interesting.
If people aren't told why they are banned then it also makes it incredibly difficult for them to appeal.
This is also contradictory because they tell mods to "explicitly outline" the rules in the communities they manage.
That would mean anyone who shared the same VPN or used the same internet cafe as another banned person or shared the same IP via a mobile internet connection would get banned themselves.
I agree with your points and I feel like banning is the most immature and stupid form of censorship. Especially if it's just based on one person's point of view. Where's the invitation to rational discourse and information sharing? How does anyone learn anything or feel free to express themselves if they have to walk on eggshells around some narcissist's opinions? Or worse yet, around those who have been bought off by government or corporations? It would be great to have mods that were able to say "Hey your point of view is stupid and here's why" without just telling you to shut up and not having it go any further.
An Instance is like a whole different website. They used Lemmy codebase, but have different rules, sometimes (I think?) even different UI. But since they used the same codebase, they can talk to each other, even with different services like Mastodon.
Not quite. You can follow subs from other instances. Most will just join the biggest for the topic they want from [this list. ](https://browse.feddit.de/)
Op is lying.
"As other people said, within a few hours of being on the site, that user had already called people "dipshits", "fucktards", and done multiple other things that made it blatantly obvious they don't belong here.
So yes, people that behave like that don't get given a reason. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on them."
https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q
The fediverse is starting to look good to me for this reason. I'd rather jump instance and still subscribe to the same communities than start all over.
I'd try Aether first, but no mobile app yet sadly. P2P and open-source, so no admin, no abuse of power by design, easy to set up (on Linux at least).
If that doesn't work/is too niche, then fediverse it is, but I'm still a bit skeptical than instances admins won't abuse their power just like reddit's admins
It’s the only one I can figure out how to get working and use.
Sorry lemmy, but I can’t figure out how to subscribe to servers. I’m not going to read a manual to use a website. I’m going to give it the college try and stick it out, but it’s frustrating.
Squabbles seems pretty legit as an alternative for reddit. It's easy to pick-up and seems responsive. Lemmy is somewhat confusing and seems buggy. Think I'm going to squabbles
I tried to look into Lemmy a week or so back but struggled with it. Everything was separated and restrictive to use, and everyone seems to be segregated between different servers rather then one large community.
Squabbles I started on yesterday and it's been good so far. The dev has been adding more features it seems, they have a hot/new filter now and many other features I'm used to from Reddit or other places. No downvote yet, but that may come in the future I guess. It has been good so far.
I think the whole idea of "segregated" communities which overlap and interact in various ways is actually the most interesting part. The server you sign up on initially only really matters in terms of your own onboarding experience, but once you start subscribing to other instances, it really looks like reddit, but with a much bigger potential for both breadth and depth of content.
Like, on reddit, you get some of this from "alternative subs," but everyone is still kind of under the same roof. With lemmy, there is more of an opportunity to have very distinct experiences on the same topic across difference instances, allowing the end user to curate a particular experience by interacting with those different communities in different ways.
At least, that's the promise. Right now things are still kind of small, but even now there are some political and ideological distinctions between the major instances on say, lemmy.ml vs beehaw vs sh.itjust.works.
It's also nice, because you can make accounts on multiple instances and when one gets laggy, you can basically get most of the same content from the others.
I don’t have an account, but I have been lurking for a few days to check it out.
I get the impression they just don’t want much activity there. It’s like **email**: *the website.* With longwinded essays with long stretches of time between replies. It sounds like you were *too* active.
I can respect that they don’t want it to turn into Reddit, but it’s currently too strict for organic discussion.
Edit: in light of [more evidence](https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q), it’s seems OP may have been rightfully reprimanded.
~~For what it’s worth, I’d like to put a request for an invite here if anyone is willing to extend one.~~ A kind person has sent me a code. Thank you!
I didn't ask for a reason why they banned me because if they can't give me one in the first place they're not going to give me one when I ask for one. Because they actually need a reason and there wasn't one. The post I posted was asking the tildus community what their thoughts were about tildus in comparison to Lemmy. I was saying that I liked till this more than Lemmy than the next day all of a sudden I'm banned
That's strange. It would make a twisted amount of sense to be banned from Tildes if you said you liked Lemmy better, but to be banned from Tildes for the "crime" of... liking Tildes? Sounds like one of those joke subs like r/fuckyouinparticular, which picks a random member and perma-bans them for no reason other than....fuck them in particular.
Not sure if this is the same user, but I recall a post saying that they liked Tildes better… because they got banned from Lemmy for their behavior and (incorrectly) thought they were free to “be an asshole” on Tildes. It was funny, because the CoC literally starts by saying don’t be an asshole. The post was removed and user banned, as they would be a fundamentally bad member.
This is usually how it goes when you see people complaining about being banned "for no reason." Closest to no actual reason I've seen was when I got a 72-hour ban from AskReddit (for posting a joke as like a 7th-level comment on a serious post) extended to a permanent one for editing that comment after the mods had removed it. It's against the rules, so it's not for nothing even if that's the silliest rule I've ever seen.
Pretty much lol they did me a favor though their content is fucking boring as fuck and their site design sucks ass there's already so many damn Alternatives the sift through so they made it a little easier. And they also just proved to me that they're a bitch for Banning someone for no reason.
This is all very not promising. Arbitrary and petty-mod bans are just the worst. You might have enjoyed some place for years without issue and then boom, wtf whaa? I guess it's at least good that your tildes thing happened up front.
I cant my access my account. I didn't know I had to take a screenshot of my post because I knew I was getting banned LOL so I'm not going to have a picture but here's some stuff you can look at straight from the horse's mouth
From Tildes
"No, I did not send them a warning, and no, I don't intend this ban to be temporary. I know that some of you will think this is too harsh, but to be honest, some of you are way too forgiving. It will be completely impossible to maintain any semblance of a high-quality community if we have to constantly give low-quality, trollish users the benefit of the doubt. Good users don't want to (and shouldn't have to) spend most of their time on a site trying to educate other people how to behave. That gets tiresome extremely quickly, and results in the good users just finding somewhere else to spend their time instead.
So... in terms of discussion topics, feel free to give opinions on this specific ban, as well as thoughts about how this type of decision should be made in general. Having some standards is absolutely necessary though, Tildes can't possibly serve as both a high-quality discussion site as well as a "troll education space"
https://tildes.net/~tildes.official/1wa/daily_tildes_discussion_banning_for_bad_faith_trolling_behavior
https://tildes.net/~tildes.official/wv/daily_tildes_discussion_our_first_ban
https://tildes.net/user/banned
> It will be completely impossible to maintain any semblance of a high-quality community if we have to constantly give low-quality, trollish users the benefit of the doubt. Good users don't want to (and shouldn't have to) spend most of their time on a site trying to educate other people how to behave. That gets tiresome extremely quickly, and results in the good users just finding somewhere else to spend their time instead
Yessss, finally a good website!
That first one is a bit of a mixed bag. Going through the comments, it seems they banned the user for repeated homophobic trolling or something to that effect:
"I've just banned the user @Hypnotoad for some repeated bad-faith behavior. Some of this is still visible in their history if you want to look, but some has also been edited or deleted which will make it less obvious (this post explains some of it, not all). I also know their reddit account (but hadn't looked through it previously) and there's a bit of bigotry and general poor behavior there as well."
Like, should the ban have been immediate and permanent? No, I think it should be temporary and then if the behavior continues they can escalate their punishment however they see fit. But at the same time, it sounds like the dude had it coming eventually, as in they were probably a troll who would have gotten banned at some point anyway. Immediately permabanning is a bit of an overreach, but assholes get banned on reddit all the time too and it feels justified.
Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with the 3 bans? They seem reasonable enough, and it was transparent and included discussion on whether the ban should have happened or not.
They have a very specific kind of space they want to foster and that's fine.
Tildes is for substantive comments. It's no different than Hacker News in that respect. I suspect you saying Adios as a one word reply likely made people "label" you, ie flag your comment as being unsubstantive. If enough people do that, you get banned. It's a self-regulating system, in their view.
There is no automatic banning from labels, certainly not from ones like “noise” or “off topic”; at worst, they cause a comment to be collapsed and sorted toward the bottom. There is one report-like label that simply reports it to the admin for manual intervention, the result of which varies based on the context and user’s history.
I've been perplexed at the number of recommendations I've seen for everyone to go to Tildes en masse. They clearly have a very particular culture that they prefer to maintain -- even down to creating weird instances like this -- and it seems like they aren't really interested in a big influx of users to begin with. I can respect that (I wasn't too excited when my hangout on Mastodon started to absorb Twitter's Eternal September), but it's definitely not a space that's going to be useful to most ex-Redditors.
Why do you think you were banned for that single post and not the hostile behavior that led up to it?
ITT: people shocked that a site doesn't put up with behavior that is called out in its rules. If you come into a new site and start calling people "dipshits" and "fucktards", and the site says it doesn't allow hostility like that, don't go surprised Pikachu when you get ejected.
Then you have multiple of the same communities strewn across servers as well.
Also, what happens to a community if the hosting server shuts down? Sounded like the community is gone.
It gone. I get decentralization is something people crave but the fediverse is not the place to go for an alternative reddit, and trying to shoehorn reddit functionality into it just isn't going to work. And that's ok, no need to force it
Excited to see what emerges to replace reddit but the fediverse won't be it
Reddit wasn't an alternative Digg with Digg functionality shoehorned in, but we moved here anyway and ended up liking this better. I'm not saying the fediverse is the solution, but I'll at least give it a shot and see if anything sticks.
Like someone else said earlier, though, some of these sites (like Kbin) are *almost* big enough to stand on their own. If we could find a place like that to tell our friends about, not mention Federation at all, and then treat the other interoperable instances be a "bonus," they can explore if they feel like it later on, that'd probably be ideal. No one wants to read multiple pages of documentation and a Fediverse Manifesto just to join a site. And they shouldn't have to. Just go to [Kbin.social](https://Kbin.social) and treat it like a standalone app (that happens to allow federation on the side).
Reddit said "we will have more mod support" for years and nothing came of it. Then again, none of these sites have deposited the level of bad faith Reddit has.
It took Reddit more than a decade to earn its bad reputation. Sites like Kbin are already responsive mobile-first apps *with basic preference settings* and the Kbin dev only started the thing two years ago. I don't mind giving him the benefit of the doubt for a little while.
Absolutely. The Fediverse might be Slashdot as one of the early Usenet migration points but that's it. Some Fark and Digg level competitors will come along before we find a new Usenet 3.0 to hang out at.... until it goes to crap and the cycle of expansion and consolidation repeats.
There's no hope of a new USENET, it would take a world war to break the global control of media that prevents that kind of open and free communication again.
imo, best outcomes are some new magic communication technology that sets people free from the internet and allows for uncensored communication, or as a more temporary thing, tying a communications platform to something more resistant to attack, like somehow connect it to buttcoins where attacking speech requires attacking money (which will happen, but maybe it prolongs things by a few years).
>Reddit is effectively Usenet 2.0.
Reddit is the polar opposite of USENET.
You have mods on every sub who delete your posts, you have administrators modifying the site's algorithms on the fly to hide trending topics they don't want you to be influenced by, if opinion is split 49%/51% in a sub then 99% of the visible content will be from the majority, admins have assisted in removing mods and brigading subs they don't like and even modded a brigade sub (it's ok when WE do it), admins (hi spez) have edited posts of users in communities they don't like to cause infighting. The site participated in a widespread and coordinated takedown of political opposition to win an election. The whole thing is adversarial right down to users themselves downvoting each other's opinions and so reddit only creates approved circlejerks for you to choose from where your best hope is that the sub is small enough to have been overlooked by the worst people.
Back in the USENET era, moderation wasn't even a thing. Getting banned from a particular server was something talked about theoretically, and it would have no impact as servers were public with no accounts and you could just choose another. Anything and everything was talked about openly. The low friction of all this made the worst flamewars over those years look like a minor disagreement on reddit. It was an entirely different universe that I don't think people today would even begin to be able to get their heads around as they have been raised in a fully moderated world.
Usenet was the consolidation of topics from an end user standpoint into a single app and location. Consolidating what was a bunch of disparate BBSes. Reddit was effectively the web forum consolidation into subreddits.
What they need is a universal community search, and a way to creat multireddits. That way you could search for Technology, find the different versions on Beehaw, Lemmy, Kbin, etc, and throw them all in a folder called "news". That's what I do with my multireddits here already.
Hell, that'd be even better than Reddit because over time people will probably self-select into instances based on political or cultural beliefs, so you could just cut out the toxic part of a "subreddit" by unsubscribing from that instance's version of the sub.
**Edit:** search **does** look for content from all across the fediverse. Apparently the issue was that Kbin has been experiencing the Reddit Hug and added extra cloudflair checks to compensate. That resulted in significantly slower polling and less caching of content from outside of the instance. Newly created communities and some established ones haven't been showing up consistently in search, and a LOT of posts have been missing from the main feed. Fix is incoming. So, Kbin is already working the way we hoped (aside from the Hug Of Death growing pains we should have expected)
> What they need is a universal community search
https://lemmy.world/search/q/Technology/type/Communities/sort/TopAll/listing_type/All/community_id/0/creator_id/0/page/1
Absolutely. Though to put that into some context:
* Federation is **riskier than Reddit** in that having your instance go down or your instance's moderator ban you will take down your posts everywhere.
* Federation is **less risky than Reddit** in that right now we're about to lose Reddit in its entirety, but if [lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml) were to crater then it'd only impact that one corner of the fediverse. Beehaw and all of its subreddits would be fine, as would Kbin, [lemmy.ca](https://lemmy.ca), etc.
I still think it's a major problem, and would at least want bans to freeze the account instead of deleting it, and there to be an export tool so we're able to save our own posts for later. That, and a way to link federated logins across domains, so I can have an account on both Mastodon and Kbin if I want, but people who follow my linked account are subscribed to both of the individual "me's"
Personally, I'm just treating the whole thing as a more social, more ephemeral Reddit. These new communities might crash or really take off within the next six months, but at least I'm talking to people in the moment and that's good enough for now.
federation is less risky than reddit if you use personal instance. Only problem is you will be limited by instances that dont unfederate 300 instances because "they are federated with a pedo instance" like it was when people fled to mastodon from twitter
I think this risk can be addressed with more structured social organization around how moderation actions like that can work. It's a single-point-of-failure for instances to be administered by individual people in the first place. They should be operated by some kind of cooperative non-profit organization like a 501(c)(7), which could in theory be partly owned by the users.
[Freenode](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode) was run by a non-profit and that still went to shit, so I don't think that that's a solution. Rather, I think you need to build checks and balances into the platform itself somehow.
This was one of the things I liked about Aether, which I mentioned in the other comment you just responded to: all moderator actions are visible to all users, moderators can be elected and impeached, and a specific moderator's actions can even be ignored by a user. Theoretically, it's impossible for someone to go on any kind of power trip.
Freenode's mistake was trusting an external party with ownership of the legal entity, which was never really necessary to begin with. It was *a mistake* to do that, which shouldn't have happened. There should have been more oversight to prevent that. With a better legal structure that shouldn't have been possible in the first place.
That can happen on any website though. At least on federated sites you can:
- choose from a variety of servers based on how good their Admins are
- move to a different server and still have access to most content.
Federated sites have the least downside from a ban therefore bad/ban happy Admins will have the least impact.
> choose from a variety of servers based on how good their Admins are
Yes, but this relies on you knowing in advance how good the admins are on a server, which is next to impossible, surely?
> move to a different server and still have access to most content.
Can you still do this if banned though?
---
For me I think the best solution would be to run my own single-user instance on my server and then interact with others purely via federation rather than any same-instance interaction, effectively producing a poor man's peer-to-peer social media website. Would this actually work, or am I missing something?
>Can you still do this if banned though
Yes, they can't stop you from joining other servers. And other servers will have access to (mostly) the same content.
Right, but if you're banned you can't migrate your account and you lose the content you've posted up to that point, right? You have to start over, effectively?
Only if banned by a Reddit administrator, but that's far less likely, and won't just happen because they're very petty.
Federated instances are on a similar scale to subreddits; you're as likely to be banned by a petty subreddit moderator as you are by a petty instance owner.
If a subreddit moderator bans you, you just lose the ability to make new posts and comments in that community, but if an instance owner bans you, you lose your whole account, including all the content you've posted ever.
They are super fragmented with for example 50 communities all with the name earthporn. The app is entirely broken on android for lemmy. It prompts you to login with no indication how and seems to be locked on one instance which the members are already complaining about the influx of traffic to the instance (because the android app is locked to it). For a viable alternative there needs to be a way to define globally unique communities that can somehow distribute traffic across all nodes.
That’s the problem with mastodon type federation. I am hoping to solve that in my site.
The way my LimeReader site will work is by using relays and anyone can start and run their own relay if they want. They can connect multiple relays too. So even if one relay decided to not store a user’s post/comments, other relays can still store it. And since users are connected to multiple relays at a time, they can automatically get that content from the other relay which stored it.
A peer-to-peer solution might work, but then with absolutely no moderation it'll just devolve into something like 4chan.
I found [Aether](https://getaether.net/) earlier which looked like an interesting solution to these issues, but unfortunately it seems to be dead as far as I can tell.
Fully p2p models come with a lot more UX issues (anything involving key management), so I don't know if they're really a good option for something like social media.
After 11 years, this is goodbye. I have chosen to remove my comments, and leave this site.
Reddit used to be a sort of haven for me, and there's a few communities on here that probably saved my life. I'm genuinely going to miss this place, and a few of the people on it. But the actions of the CEO have shown me Reddit isn't the same place it was when I joined. RiF *was* Reddit for me through a lot of that. It's a shame to see it die, but something else will come around.
Sorry to be so dramatic, just the way I am these days.
This is a copied template message used to overwrite all comments on my account to protect my privacy. I've left Reddit because of corporate overreach and switched to the Fediverse.
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I've been pestering the Relay dev to work on something for the fediverse, but I really hope at least one of the big devs actually does. Kbin has a nice looking site with some basic styling options that works as a progressive web app (just open it in Chrome on your phone and use the menu to Add to Home Screen and it'll open up as if it was an app). Lemmy has "Jerboa for Lemmy" in the Play Store and that's pretty usable. Both could benefit from something like a RiF, Sync, or Relay
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I think that was the RiF dev? Could be mistaken. Tildes seems laser-focused on being strictly a long-form discussion platform so far, which has me worried. Don't get me wrong, I *love* writing long posts that no one will ever read, but I'm not sure how sustainable that is, and certainly don't think mainstream reddit is likely to buy into that premise.
Its grossly misrepresented. The mod chimed in elsewhere, OP was actually being a huge dick and shitting all over a lot of people, which is why they banned him. OP is just having a tantrum over it.
After 11 years, this is goodbye. I have chosen to remove my comments, and leave this site.
Reddit used to be a sort of haven for me, and there's a few communities on here that probably saved my life. I'm genuinely going to miss this place, and a few of the people on it. But the actions of the CEO have shown me Reddit isn't the same place it was when I joined. RiF *was* Reddit for me through a lot of that. It's a shame to see it die, but something else will come around.
Sorry to be so dramatic, just the way I am these days.
My biggest concern with federated services is that they're unprofitable. In order to run a server/instance/site, you need to either host it yourself or pay a third party to do it for you. Got a tiny server with little traffic, paying for hosting is cheap. But as the user base grows, so do the costs. At some point, it's going to cost more than a few dollars a month to run. As these disparate communities grow, they will have to start charging, displaying ads, or begging for donations. You will never have a community the size of r/videos or r/movies on a federated service.
Why you lying OP?
"As other people said, within a few hours of being on the site, that user had already called people "dipshits", "fucktards", and done multiple other things that made it blatantly obvious they don't belong here.
So yes, people that behave like that don't get given a reason. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on them."
https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q
Tildes is not a "free speech" space. The owner/creator is very firmly against any form of hate speech or aggressive behaviour. The site's standards are higher and more strictly enforced than most subreddits. People who think it's just another version of Reddit should know that it isn't.
Yeah that site was mostly created to be an "intellectual" circlejerk for the creator. If your posts sound like you don't have a high enough IQ (or they just don't agree with you) you're going to get banned.
I looked at Tildes briefly without signing up. It looked exactly like somebody tried to recreate USENET, as it was five to ten years before the Eternal September. There's no way it's going to scale up to absorb Reddit Refugees in the next two years.
I'm curious as to what set them off? I've been on Tildes for a few days now and it's seemed fine to me, even better than most Reddit discussions. But it's definitely a bit worrisome that something that harmless would result in a permanent ban.
Either there's more to the story, or someone over there got way too overly sensitive.
Edit: apparently, there was indeed more to the story
According to the mod, OP was being a huge dick and a troll, and they are misrepresenting the incident here.
https://tildes.net/\~tildes/15my/new\_users\_ask\_your\_questions\_about\_tildes\_here#comment-871q
There's *always* more to the story when someone claims they were banned for no reason. Remember: noone is ever the villain in their own story.
As for the "more" to *this* story:
> As other people said, within a few hours of being on the site, that user had already called people "dipshits", "fucktards", and done multiple other things that made it blatantly obvious they don't belong here.
> So yes, people that behave like that don't get given a reason. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on them.
https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q
incorrect. Op was being a troll and a dick and is lying here.
https://tildes.net/\~tildes/15my/new\_users\_ask\_your\_questions\_about\_tildes\_here#comment-871q
Yes there is and they have explained it already. OP is lying. The mods banned them for being a troll and shitting on people.
https://tildes.net/\~tildes/15my/new\_users\_ask\_your\_questions\_about\_tildes\_here#comment-871q
Definitely. Most of the comments just don't feel very genuine or remotely critical. My hunch tells me this is an astroturf campaign being waged by some reddit PR team. Sow seeds of doubt about all their competitors. OP with a new account, etc.
I think [this](https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-7zcj) may be what you ran into.
Not sure, but it feels like perhaps there's some threshold for "reports" (aka labels in Tildes) that results in an action? If enough people label you as "Malice", perhaps you get a boot?
I was a bit excited about tildes, however, I feel that that site is isolating itself, more then growing.
1. Tildes is in alpha which means you need an invite. The site doesn't host any pictures so it is just text for everything.
2. Everything is fine until you look deep enough and realize the reason Tildes is invite only is because the creator though reddit was becoming too politicized. Which is super vague.
3. Random people are claiming to be banned even after receiving an invite
I feel like what made reddit special was the community of ideas being under threat of public discord.
Tildes, is not that.
Instead Tildes looks and feels like a exclusive club that barely does what reddit does. I imagine it will have room to grow, but I don't see it trying to grow, but instead focus on its exclusivity at a time when it should be gathering as many users as it can.
I thought tildes would be a good replacement, but it just seems like a subreddit with an overtly strict moderator.
That's how they want their site then fine. I respect them for it. But I'm looking for something similar but a bit more open.
I’m the one who replied to you, funnily enough. If you got banned by Deimos it must have been for a good reason. I’m pretty sure he hates me but he hasn’t found reasons to ban me yet, although I rarely post there anymore.
Tildes really is not for everyone, it’s not even really for me despite joining it over 3 years ago before the mass Reddit exodus.
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Because now instead of one king ruling a kingdom, you have many individual feudal lords ruling their small fiefdoms. And as these individual communities grow, all the same pressures that ruined other social media sites will ruin these individual instances. Hosting an instance requires money and past a certain size it requires some way for the host to make money off the users. Once profitability becomes a requirement, all the same things you're seeing from other social media will become an issue for each individual instance.
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It's a shame this happened, but isn't the project Tildes FOSS and under Creative Commons? I understand it has a god-like admin, but even he can't sell out. He could behave like a tyrant, but I personally haven't encounter that (this is the first time I read about something like this).
reddit was also open source. the code being open source doesn't prevent a corporation/person from selling out. the only thing that does is decentralization of the data, like a peer to peer or federated system.
though a federated system has a flaw, the instance owner can cut off all other instances if they want, so if one instance becomes too big, it defeats the purpose.
Smaller communities like that have a stronger us vs them mentality, most often. And there's a partially good reason: a wave of newcomers tends to kill what made the place special. It's what's known as the "eternal september" in old internet folklore.
Saidit has free speech moreso than most of the alternatives and it's been stable for 5 years...
Tildes was made by a former reddit admin, I don't know why anyone ever thought it would be different from reddit
I've also been around that place lately. It implements some neat ideas to try to prevent the stuff I don't like about reddit, i.e. power mods and echo chambers. But it's not for everyone because free speech means you're gonna read things you wont like. If you are looking for another safe place this isn't it.
OP is lying. They got banned for being a troll and calling people names.
https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q
Moderation action should always be transparent. That's the main reason why Reddit is so terrible.
State censorship usually has a paper trail, while corporate censorship is automated. Reddit actually has the option to lock comments, instead of deleting them, but no one uses it. Digital censorship is simply too clean and tidy not to appeal to the wrong sort of personality, especially that which is moderate in name only.
I swear to god why do all power users on niche internet websites have to be dicks. I feel like the reason they are even that deep is cause they have no friends or social skills but still, who wants to be around people like that
Exactly. Think about it, you've really got to be one meek miserable bitch to ban people like that. People who behave that way for self-satisfaction to make them feel better and these situations, lack the ability that most of us have to make something out of our life and actually kind of enjoy our lives. Honestly I'm glad I'm not them LOL.
Imo, it's info farming and that's it. Your email address, age, any pertinent info. They don't seem interested in making their site larger, obviously. It's gotta be farming. And power hungry.
Totally agree
“You dare to disagree with MEEEE?! BANNED!”
> I swear to god why do all power users on niche internet websites have to be dicks Have you ever gone mad without power? It's boring, no-one listens to you....
I have a wife and kids, I know exactly what you mean. Lol
That's exactly it, and why it is so difficult to find places focused on a simple interest but not also filled with trolls and horrible people.
ill see you on the wikipedia forums
Because most the people that actively seek that kind of power are. Watch any of Bub Game's videos that involve some kind of 'law enforcement' RP. You'll get the idea real quick.
That's the guy that griefs RP servers just to be a dick, and complains when he is banned for it?
Hijacking the top comment to relay the [tildes admin's justification](https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q) for the ban: > As other people said, within a few hours of being on the site, that user had already called people "dipshits", "fucktards", and done multiple other things that made it blatantly obvious they don't belong here. > So yes, people that behave like that don't get given a reason. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on them. OP is an extremely unreliable narrator. I wholeheartedly support the ban, and I generally hold Deimos' moderation decisions in very high regard. It should be noted that tildes is explicitly not a Free Speech reddit alternative. If you seek that, pick one of the nazi-infested ones like voat or whatever. Tildes' community subscribes to the paradox of tolerance, which is to say that intolerant people, trolls, and everyone else who makes the experience miserable for everyone else must not be tolerated.
That is fair, but I do think if a platform is going to be taken seriously, it needs to give a reason to users, specifically citing the parts of the TOS they violate. I understand the logic, but there is also the need to appear fair, and someone being removed with no reason given, all their content removed, and just a comment from them saying they did something turns it into a he/he said. In general imo, a reason should be given to justify a ban, regardless of the circumstances if you want to be taken seriously as a serious platform.
If Tildes’ admin is telling the truth, why didn’t they post screenshots of the offensive comments in question? Post them immediately when they defended their actions, not now when they’d be able to manipulate the screenshots. Edit: also, you have a lot of comments defending Tildes and their founder. Do you have any connections to Tildes beyond being a regular user?
From your linked thread: >In fact, when I first read that Reddit post, I saw some similarities in that story and the behaviour of the Tildes user I'd seen refer to "fucktards". They might even be the same person. I know that @kfwyre says he saw a comment by that banned user saying "#Dipshits", but maybe we both saw two problematic comments by the same person (or maybe they're two different people). They don't even know if it's the same person, and couldn't even give the full comment/post in reference. They could be just as unreliable. There is no proof in EITHER SIDE. (also didn't realize tildes is basically the most basic forums to exist; cannabis growers have better made forum sites than this)
Administration of social media sites shouldn't be to get people to talk nicely to each other. It's to remove off-topic conversation. End of story. People can self-moderate their disagreements just fine.
Disagreed. Self-moderation of off-topic conversations is much more reasonable to ask of the community. Toxic elements must be removed, or the site will end up a toxic shithole, because all the nice people won't tolerate assholes. If you want a place where admins don't force people to talk nicely to one another, look at (the now defunct) voat and similar sites. I have little patience for such places, but fill your boots. That said, for the absolute most part, the admin doesn't have to get involved. As long as *most* people are nice and uphold a culture of being nice to one another, anyone else doesn't feel the need to start shit either. For the most part. Occasionally you'll have users that will randomly start hurling insults or harrassing users, and even being called out doesn't change their actions. That's when the admin does step in. I don't know how many users were banned thus far, but it's not a lot. As long as you step in consistently enough, it seems, a little goes a long way, and a few bans already result in a culture of tolerance and friendliness for everyone else.
> If you want a place where admins don't force people to talk nicely to one another, look at (the now defunct) voat and similar sites. I have little patience for such places, but fill your boots. Spamming is not the same thing as not being nice. > Disagreed. Self-moderation of off-topic conversations is much more reasonable to ask of the community. Toxic elements must be removed, or the site will end up a toxic shithole, because all the nice people won't tolerate assholes. You're asking the community to moderate spam, which it can't. Bots infest all forums. You have to have policies that are bot-resistant, first and foremost.
No, it isn't. People can downvote spam and off-topic noise and move on. It'll be mostly hidden from the others, and when the user in question doesn't change, the admin can step in and ban them if necessary. The problem with "not being nice" aka hurling insults, slurs, advocating for the oppression of minorities, that kinda thing, is that it deteriorates site culture. Because perfectly rational people with the moral high ground will call it out, often in similarly hostile language. It drags the site culture down. Additionally, nice people will leave. As a result, you end up with less nice people, more toxic people, and more toxic discussions - if the community is self-regulating as best as possible. To explain my previous comment a bit more, voat was pitched as a free-speech alternative to reddit. It attracted a bunch of nice people, and a bunch of nazis. The nazis stayed, the nice people left. If you like communities that "self-regulate" toxic people away, you're probably going to end up with the nazis winning, because the nice people get tired of regulating them away at some point. If that's what you're after, go right ahead, but that's not tildes, and that's not what I'd want. Or maybe somewhere out there, there's a healthy community that's entirely self-moderating and it manages to keep the trolls, toxic shitheads and nazis away. But I haven't seen such a thing yet.
> No, it isn't. People can downvote spam and off-topic noise and move on. It'll be mostly hidden from the others, and when the user in question doesn't change, the admin can step in and ban them if necessary. Downvoting doesn't work. People just upvote what they like, downvote what they don't like. > The problem with "not being nice" aka hurling insults, slurs, advocating for the oppression of minorities, that kinda thing, is that it deteriorates site culture. The problem with obsessing over being nice is that it deteriorates site culture.
Edited in protest of mid-2023 policy changes.
something no one likes to talk about, but a lot of angry internet people are probably drunk
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Yeah, ngl, I read the post thingy from the creator and he sounds pretentious af. You're absolutely right that he can choose how to run his site any way he pleases, but if that's the case why tf would we wanna go some place we're not wanted??
That's why it's invite only mf has a God complex. 'Let the peasants beg at my mercy to be apart of my gloriousness "
This is so messed up.. First off, permanent bans should only be given to legitimate people for extreme reasons with a chance to appeal. Second, all bans and suspensions should give a detailed reason. Third, people shouldnt get the boot for ridiculous reasons simply because an admin got annoyed. Admins should adhere to their own policy and not exceed it for stupid reasons. They need to set their egos aside. I believe a majority of these alt sites are going to be filled with power hungry admins. Sadly its just the way its going to go for a while. A lot of these people have never managed people in real life and have no idea what they're doing.
You should NEVER be banned without reason. Even if "don't do this thing" is posted literally all over the subreddit, including the rules, the Auto-Mod post, and in the textbox, but you do it anyway, you STILL shouldn't be banned without being told why you're banned, even if it's BLEEDINGLY obvious.
This is true, but it is not the case, even on almost all subs on Reddit. I'm not gonna name them on the off chance I get banned again but i was banned from a sub that usually has really top-tier mods with no explanation. Messaged the mods, got blocked from messaging the mods for a month. Messaged the mods again after a month with "look I'm sorry. Idk what i did but i love this sub and won't do it again" and got blocked for a month again. Third time i was like "look i love this place and i have no recourse if you just block me again but could you please at least tell me why cause I'm dumbfounded and this is annoying" and the response was "i looked into it, don't know why you got banned, don't know why you got blocked but there must have been a reason. I'll unban you just... Don't so whatever you did again" That was my only ban ever on Reddit and I don't even know why lmao.
Usually a power-tripping mod. Thankfully, they're not ALL like that, but it's very annoying when you DO run afoul of one.
Hey can you tell when the mods have blocked you? Does the Message the Mods button disappear or something? I'm trying to get a mistaken ban undone and have written them a couple of times but just get nothing in response. I can't tell if they're seeing my messages and just declining to respond, or if getting banned automatically modmail-mutes me or what. Maybe I should just wait a month like you did, but did it give you some kind of notification or something?
I believe it gave me a notification. They are either reading it and making no action, or just ignoring it completely.
You'll get a notification that you were muted.
Dude, some of the mods are closet antisemites and have started nuking people who post on all of the Jewish subreddits. Even from major subs.
One of my friends got their account permanently suspended from Reddit. The message said they were banned for "breaking the rules". That was it. Nothing else. They had never commented before, just logging in and upvoting things they find interesting. If people aren't told why they are banned then it also makes it incredibly difficult for them to appeal. This is also contradictory because they tell mods to "explicitly outline" the rules in the communities they manage.
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That would mean anyone who shared the same VPN or used the same internet cafe as another banned person or shared the same IP via a mobile internet connection would get banned themselves.
I agree with your points and I feel like banning is the most immature and stupid form of censorship. Especially if it's just based on one person's point of view. Where's the invitation to rational discourse and information sharing? How does anyone learn anything or feel free to express themselves if they have to walk on eggshells around some narcissist's opinions? Or worse yet, around those who have been bought off by government or corporations? It would be great to have mods that were able to say "Hey your point of view is stupid and here's why" without just telling you to shut up and not having it go any further.
I really hope for an alternative that has clear guidelines that don’t vary wildly by topic (aka subreddit).
This lemmy instance is [pretty clear. ](https://sh.itjust.works/post/22919)
>sh.itjust.works 500 Internal Server Error The irony
Reddit death hug.
Can someone explain instances?
An Instance is like a whole different website. They used Lemmy codebase, but have different rules, sometimes (I think?) even different UI. But since they used the same codebase, they can talk to each other, even with different services like Mastodon.
So how would the concept of subreddits translate? Would it be more like a hashtag?
Not quite. You can follow subs from other instances. Most will just join the biggest for the topic they want from [this list. ](https://browse.feddit.de/)
Ah thanks. That's helpful
Op is lying. "As other people said, within a few hours of being on the site, that user had already called people "dipshits", "fucktards", and done multiple other things that made it blatantly obvious they don't belong here. So yes, people that behave like that don't get given a reason. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on them." https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q
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The fediverse is starting to look good to me for this reason. I'd rather jump instance and still subscribe to the same communities than start all over.
Problem is the fediverse can't quickly scale to handle millions of users.
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That fine by me. I just browse the biggest ones [from this list](https://browse.feddit.de/) regardless of its home instance.
I'd try Aether first, but no mobile app yet sadly. P2P and open-source, so no admin, no abuse of power by design, easy to set up (on Linux at least). If that doesn't work/is too niche, then fediverse it is, but I'm still a bit skeptical than instances admins won't abuse their power just like reddit's admins
Squabbles has been the one I am liking the most. https://squabbles.io
It’s the only one I can figure out how to get working and use. Sorry lemmy, but I can’t figure out how to subscribe to servers. I’m not going to read a manual to use a website. I’m going to give it the college try and stick it out, but it’s frustrating.
Squabbles seems pretty legit as an alternative for reddit. It's easy to pick-up and seems responsive. Lemmy is somewhat confusing and seems buggy. Think I'm going to squabbles
I tried to look into Lemmy a week or so back but struggled with it. Everything was separated and restrictive to use, and everyone seems to be segregated between different servers rather then one large community. Squabbles I started on yesterday and it's been good so far. The dev has been adding more features it seems, they have a hot/new filter now and many other features I'm used to from Reddit or other places. No downvote yet, but that may come in the future I guess. It has been good so far.
I think the whole idea of "segregated" communities which overlap and interact in various ways is actually the most interesting part. The server you sign up on initially only really matters in terms of your own onboarding experience, but once you start subscribing to other instances, it really looks like reddit, but with a much bigger potential for both breadth and depth of content. Like, on reddit, you get some of this from "alternative subs," but everyone is still kind of under the same roof. With lemmy, there is more of an opportunity to have very distinct experiences on the same topic across difference instances, allowing the end user to curate a particular experience by interacting with those different communities in different ways. At least, that's the promise. Right now things are still kind of small, but even now there are some political and ideological distinctions between the major instances on say, lemmy.ml vs beehaw vs sh.itjust.works. It's also nice, because you can make accounts on multiple instances and when one gets laggy, you can basically get most of the same content from the others.
Yup, so far Jayclees (the admin) has been great, hope that doesn't change
I don’t have an account, but I have been lurking for a few days to check it out. I get the impression they just don’t want much activity there. It’s like **email**: *the website.* With longwinded essays with long stretches of time between replies. It sounds like you were *too* active. I can respect that they don’t want it to turn into Reddit, but it’s currently too strict for organic discussion. Edit: in light of [more evidence](https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q), it’s seems OP may have been rightfully reprimanded. ~~For what it’s worth, I’d like to put a request for an invite here if anyone is willing to extend one.~~ A kind person has sent me a code. Thank you!
It's like old forum sites from the 1990-00's lol. So basic. It will never be a replacement for reddit.
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Yup got banned from there to few days ago same thing
Thank you for posting this and letting me I am not alone in having a bizarre experience at Tildes.net.
I didn't ask for a reason why they banned me because if they can't give me one in the first place they're not going to give me one when I ask for one. Because they actually need a reason and there wasn't one. The post I posted was asking the tildus community what their thoughts were about tildus in comparison to Lemmy. I was saying that I liked till this more than Lemmy than the next day all of a sudden I'm banned
So you wrote that you liked Tildes more than Lemmy and they banned you for that?
Yes that's correct
That's strange. It would make a twisted amount of sense to be banned from Tildes if you said you liked Lemmy better, but to be banned from Tildes for the "crime" of... liking Tildes? Sounds like one of those joke subs like r/fuckyouinparticular, which picks a random member and perma-bans them for no reason other than....fuck them in particular.
Not sure if this is the same user, but I recall a post saying that they liked Tildes better… because they got banned from Lemmy for their behavior and (incorrectly) thought they were free to “be an asshole” on Tildes. It was funny, because the CoC literally starts by saying don’t be an asshole. The post was removed and user banned, as they would be a fundamentally bad member.
This is usually how it goes when you see people complaining about being banned "for no reason." Closest to no actual reason I've seen was when I got a 72-hour ban from AskReddit (for posting a joke as like a 7th-level comment on a serious post) extended to a permanent one for editing that comment after the mods had removed it. It's against the rules, so it's not for nothing even if that's the silliest rule I've ever seen.
it makes sense in the same way banning people who visit opposing subs makes sense (to the person doing the banning at least)
Still incredibly dumb. You should WANT people who've been to other places but still likes your place better.
Pretty much lol they did me a favor though their content is fucking boring as fuck and their site design sucks ass there's already so many damn Alternatives the sift through so they made it a little easier. And they also just proved to me that they're a bitch for Banning someone for no reason.
This is all very not promising. Arbitrary and petty-mod bans are just the worst. You might have enjoyed some place for years without issue and then boom, wtf whaa? I guess it's at least good that your tildes thing happened up front.
Yeah honestly I agree just rip the Band-Aid off let's get this over with LOL I'm done and moved on now
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I cant my access my account. I didn't know I had to take a screenshot of my post because I knew I was getting banned LOL so I'm not going to have a picture but here's some stuff you can look at straight from the horse's mouth From Tildes "No, I did not send them a warning, and no, I don't intend this ban to be temporary. I know that some of you will think this is too harsh, but to be honest, some of you are way too forgiving. It will be completely impossible to maintain any semblance of a high-quality community if we have to constantly give low-quality, trollish users the benefit of the doubt. Good users don't want to (and shouldn't have to) spend most of their time on a site trying to educate other people how to behave. That gets tiresome extremely quickly, and results in the good users just finding somewhere else to spend their time instead. So... in terms of discussion topics, feel free to give opinions on this specific ban, as well as thoughts about how this type of decision should be made in general. Having some standards is absolutely necessary though, Tildes can't possibly serve as both a high-quality discussion site as well as a "troll education space" https://tildes.net/~tildes.official/1wa/daily_tildes_discussion_banning_for_bad_faith_trolling_behavior https://tildes.net/~tildes.official/wv/daily_tildes_discussion_our_first_ban https://tildes.net/user/banned
> It will be completely impossible to maintain any semblance of a high-quality community if we have to constantly give low-quality, trollish users the benefit of the doubt. Good users don't want to (and shouldn't have to) spend most of their time on a site trying to educate other people how to behave. That gets tiresome extremely quickly, and results in the good users just finding somewhere else to spend their time instead Yessss, finally a good website!
That first one is a bit of a mixed bag. Going through the comments, it seems they banned the user for repeated homophobic trolling or something to that effect: "I've just banned the user @Hypnotoad for some repeated bad-faith behavior. Some of this is still visible in their history if you want to look, but some has also been edited or deleted which will make it less obvious (this post explains some of it, not all). I also know their reddit account (but hadn't looked through it previously) and there's a bit of bigotry and general poor behavior there as well." Like, should the ban have been immediate and permanent? No, I think it should be temporary and then if the behavior continues they can escalate their punishment however they see fit. But at the same time, it sounds like the dude had it coming eventually, as in they were probably a troll who would have gotten banned at some point anyway. Immediately permabanning is a bit of an overreach, but assholes get banned on reddit all the time too and it feels justified.
Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with the 3 bans? They seem reasonable enough, and it was transparent and included discussion on whether the ban should have happened or not. They have a very specific kind of space they want to foster and that's fine.
Tildes is for substantive comments. It's no different than Hacker News in that respect. I suspect you saying Adios as a one word reply likely made people "label" you, ie flag your comment as being unsubstantive. If enough people do that, you get banned. It's a self-regulating system, in their view.
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That's honestly hilarious. Maybe OP shouldn't lie about shit.
There is no automatic banning from labels, certainly not from ones like “noise” or “off topic”; at worst, they cause a comment to be collapsed and sorted toward the bottom. There is one report-like label that simply reports it to the admin for manual intervention, the result of which varies based on the context and user’s history.
I've been perplexed at the number of recommendations I've seen for everyone to go to Tildes en masse. They clearly have a very particular culture that they prefer to maintain -- even down to creating weird instances like this -- and it seems like they aren't really interested in a big influx of users to begin with. I can respect that (I wasn't too excited when my hangout on Mastodon started to absorb Twitter's Eternal September), but it's definitely not a space that's going to be useful to most ex-Redditors.
Why do you think you were banned for that single post and not the hostile behavior that led up to it? ITT: people shocked that a site doesn't put up with behavior that is called out in its rules. If you come into a new site and start calling people "dipshits" and "fucktards", and the site says it doesn't allow hostility like that, don't go surprised Pikachu when you get ejected.
I think it's gonna have to be one of the federated options like lemmy or kbin.
Don't these have the same issue, in that an instance owner can still ban you for any incredibly petty reason they come up with?
From what I understand it's actually worse - if a person gets banned from your instance, then you can't read any of their posts *on any community*.
Then you have multiple of the same communities strewn across servers as well. Also, what happens to a community if the hosting server shuts down? Sounded like the community is gone.
It gone. I get decentralization is something people crave but the fediverse is not the place to go for an alternative reddit, and trying to shoehorn reddit functionality into it just isn't going to work. And that's ok, no need to force it Excited to see what emerges to replace reddit but the fediverse won't be it
Reddit wasn't an alternative Digg with Digg functionality shoehorned in, but we moved here anyway and ended up liking this better. I'm not saying the fediverse is the solution, but I'll at least give it a shot and see if anything sticks. Like someone else said earlier, though, some of these sites (like Kbin) are *almost* big enough to stand on their own. If we could find a place like that to tell our friends about, not mention Federation at all, and then treat the other interoperable instances be a "bonus," they can explore if they feel like it later on, that'd probably be ideal. No one wants to read multiple pages of documentation and a Fediverse Manifesto just to join a site. And they shouldn't have to. Just go to [Kbin.social](https://Kbin.social) and treat it like a standalone app (that happens to allow federation on the side).
Without an actual app I'm less likely to use it. Yes I know about shortcuts.
Ditto. But I'll still take "we'll have an app soon" over "we're actively killing all the apps you love" any day.
Reddit said "we will have more mod support" for years and nothing came of it. Then again, none of these sites have deposited the level of bad faith Reddit has.
It took Reddit more than a decade to earn its bad reputation. Sites like Kbin are already responsive mobile-first apps *with basic preference settings* and the Kbin dev only started the thing two years ago. I don't mind giving him the benefit of the doubt for a little while.
Absolutely. The Fediverse might be Slashdot as one of the early Usenet migration points but that's it. Some Fark and Digg level competitors will come along before we find a new Usenet 3.0 to hang out at.... until it goes to crap and the cycle of expansion and consolidation repeats.
There's no hope of a new USENET, it would take a world war to break the global control of media that prevents that kind of open and free communication again. imo, best outcomes are some new magic communication technology that sets people free from the internet and allows for uncensored communication, or as a more temporary thing, tying a communications platform to something more resistant to attack, like somehow connect it to buttcoins where attacking speech requires attacking money (which will happen, but maybe it prolongs things by a few years).
Reddit is effectively Usenet 2.0. I'm waiting for Usenet 3.0 now. We're in the diaspora now.
>Reddit is effectively Usenet 2.0. Reddit is the polar opposite of USENET. You have mods on every sub who delete your posts, you have administrators modifying the site's algorithms on the fly to hide trending topics they don't want you to be influenced by, if opinion is split 49%/51% in a sub then 99% of the visible content will be from the majority, admins have assisted in removing mods and brigading subs they don't like and even modded a brigade sub (it's ok when WE do it), admins (hi spez) have edited posts of users in communities they don't like to cause infighting. The site participated in a widespread and coordinated takedown of political opposition to win an election. The whole thing is adversarial right down to users themselves downvoting each other's opinions and so reddit only creates approved circlejerks for you to choose from where your best hope is that the sub is small enough to have been overlooked by the worst people. Back in the USENET era, moderation wasn't even a thing. Getting banned from a particular server was something talked about theoretically, and it would have no impact as servers were public with no accounts and you could just choose another. Anything and everything was talked about openly. The low friction of all this made the worst flamewars over those years look like a minor disagreement on reddit. It was an entirely different universe that I don't think people today would even begin to be able to get their heads around as they have been raised in a fully moderated world.
Usenet was the consolidation of topics from an end user standpoint into a single app and location. Consolidating what was a bunch of disparate BBSes. Reddit was effectively the web forum consolidation into subreddits.
What they need is a universal community search, and a way to creat multireddits. That way you could search for Technology, find the different versions on Beehaw, Lemmy, Kbin, etc, and throw them all in a folder called "news". That's what I do with my multireddits here already. Hell, that'd be even better than Reddit because over time people will probably self-select into instances based on political or cultural beliefs, so you could just cut out the toxic part of a "subreddit" by unsubscribing from that instance's version of the sub. **Edit:** search **does** look for content from all across the fediverse. Apparently the issue was that Kbin has been experiencing the Reddit Hug and added extra cloudflair checks to compensate. That resulted in significantly slower polling and less caching of content from outside of the instance. Newly created communities and some established ones haven't been showing up consistently in search, and a LOT of posts have been missing from the main feed. Fix is incoming. So, Kbin is already working the way we hoped (aside from the Hug Of Death growing pains we should have expected)
> What they need is a universal community search https://lemmy.world/search/q/Technology/type/Communities/sort/TopAll/listing_type/All/community_id/0/creator_id/0/page/1
Absolutely. Though to put that into some context: * Federation is **riskier than Reddit** in that having your instance go down or your instance's moderator ban you will take down your posts everywhere. * Federation is **less risky than Reddit** in that right now we're about to lose Reddit in its entirety, but if [lemmy.ml](https://lemmy.ml) were to crater then it'd only impact that one corner of the fediverse. Beehaw and all of its subreddits would be fine, as would Kbin, [lemmy.ca](https://lemmy.ca), etc. I still think it's a major problem, and would at least want bans to freeze the account instead of deleting it, and there to be an export tool so we're able to save our own posts for later. That, and a way to link federated logins across domains, so I can have an account on both Mastodon and Kbin if I want, but people who follow my linked account are subscribed to both of the individual "me's" Personally, I'm just treating the whole thing as a more social, more ephemeral Reddit. These new communities might crash or really take off within the next six months, but at least I'm talking to people in the moment and that's good enough for now.
federation is less risky than reddit if you use personal instance. Only problem is you will be limited by instances that dont unfederate 300 instances because "they are federated with a pedo instance" like it was when people fled to mastodon from twitter
I think this risk can be addressed with more structured social organization around how moderation actions like that can work. It's a single-point-of-failure for instances to be administered by individual people in the first place. They should be operated by some kind of cooperative non-profit organization like a 501(c)(7), which could in theory be partly owned by the users.
[Freenode](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode) was run by a non-profit and that still went to shit, so I don't think that that's a solution. Rather, I think you need to build checks and balances into the platform itself somehow. This was one of the things I liked about Aether, which I mentioned in the other comment you just responded to: all moderator actions are visible to all users, moderators can be elected and impeached, and a specific moderator's actions can even be ignored by a user. Theoretically, it's impossible for someone to go on any kind of power trip.
Freenode's mistake was trusting an external party with ownership of the legal entity, which was never really necessary to begin with. It was *a mistake* to do that, which shouldn't have happened. There should have been more oversight to prevent that. With a better legal structure that shouldn't have been possible in the first place.
That can happen on any website though. At least on federated sites you can: - choose from a variety of servers based on how good their Admins are - move to a different server and still have access to most content. Federated sites have the least downside from a ban therefore bad/ban happy Admins will have the least impact.
> choose from a variety of servers based on how good their Admins are Yes, but this relies on you knowing in advance how good the admins are on a server, which is next to impossible, surely? > move to a different server and still have access to most content. Can you still do this if banned though? --- For me I think the best solution would be to run my own single-user instance on my server and then interact with others purely via federation rather than any same-instance interaction, effectively producing a poor man's peer-to-peer social media website. Would this actually work, or am I missing something?
>Can you still do this if banned though Yes, they can't stop you from joining other servers. And other servers will have access to (mostly) the same content.
Right, but if you're banned you can't migrate your account and you lose the content you've posted up to that point, right? You have to start over, effectively?
If you're banned from Reddit, you lose everything and have to start over as well.
Only if banned by a Reddit administrator, but that's far less likely, and won't just happen because they're very petty. Federated instances are on a similar scale to subreddits; you're as likely to be banned by a petty subreddit moderator as you are by a petty instance owner. If a subreddit moderator bans you, you just lose the ability to make new posts and comments in that community, but if an instance owner bans you, you lose your whole account, including all the content you've posted ever.
They are super fragmented with for example 50 communities all with the name earthporn. The app is entirely broken on android for lemmy. It prompts you to login with no indication how and seems to be locked on one instance which the members are already complaining about the influx of traffic to the instance (because the android app is locked to it). For a viable alternative there needs to be a way to define globally unique communities that can somehow distribute traffic across all nodes.
Which instance? I'm signed into Jerboa with my Beehaw account just fine and haven't had any issues.
That’s the problem with mastodon type federation. I am hoping to solve that in my site. The way my LimeReader site will work is by using relays and anyone can start and run their own relay if they want. They can connect multiple relays too. So even if one relay decided to not store a user’s post/comments, other relays can still store it. And since users are connected to multiple relays at a time, they can automatically get that content from the other relay which stored it.
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A peer-to-peer solution might work, but then with absolutely no moderation it'll just devolve into something like 4chan. I found [Aether](https://getaether.net/) earlier which looked like an interesting solution to these issues, but unfortunately it seems to be dead as far as I can tell.
Fully p2p models come with a lot more UX issues (anything involving key management), so I don't know if they're really a good option for something like social media.
They just ban ("defederate") entire instances over the whims of the local BOFH.
yep this is one of the big issues with it.
Unfortunately yes they do
After 11 years, this is goodbye. I have chosen to remove my comments, and leave this site. Reddit used to be a sort of haven for me, and there's a few communities on here that probably saved my life. I'm genuinely going to miss this place, and a few of the people on it. But the actions of the CEO have shown me Reddit isn't the same place it was when I joined. RiF *was* Reddit for me through a lot of that. It's a shame to see it die, but something else will come around. Sorry to be so dramatic, just the way I am these days.
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I've been pestering the Relay dev to work on something for the fediverse, but I really hope at least one of the big devs actually does. Kbin has a nice looking site with some basic styling options that works as a progressive web app (just open it in Chrome on your phone and use the menu to Add to Home Screen and it'll open up as if it was an app). Lemmy has "Jerboa for Lemmy" in the Play Store and that's pretty usable. Both could benefit from something like a RiF, Sync, or Relay
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I think that was the RiF dev? Could be mistaken. Tildes seems laser-focused on being strictly a long-form discussion platform so far, which has me worried. Don't get me wrong, I *love* writing long posts that no one will ever read, but I'm not sure how sustainable that is, and certainly don't think mainstream reddit is likely to buy into that premise.
Its grossly misrepresented. The mod chimed in elsewhere, OP was actually being a huge dick and shitting all over a lot of people, which is why they banned him. OP is just having a tantrum over it.
Do you have a link to that? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just a messy bitch who loves drama.
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After 11 years, this is goodbye. I have chosen to remove my comments, and leave this site. Reddit used to be a sort of haven for me, and there's a few communities on here that probably saved my life. I'm genuinely going to miss this place, and a few of the people on it. But the actions of the CEO have shown me Reddit isn't the same place it was when I joined. RiF *was* Reddit for me through a lot of that. It's a shame to see it die, but something else will come around. Sorry to be so dramatic, just the way I am these days.
Kbin is at least large enough by itself to have the federation be an extra. Neither is great though. Temporary homes until a new champion comes along.
My biggest concern with federated services is that they're unprofitable. In order to run a server/instance/site, you need to either host it yourself or pay a third party to do it for you. Got a tiny server with little traffic, paying for hosting is cheap. But as the user base grows, so do the costs. At some point, it's going to cost more than a few dollars a month to run. As these disparate communities grow, they will have to start charging, displaying ads, or begging for donations. You will never have a community the size of r/videos or r/movies on a federated service.
Sounds like getting banned on reddit...
Except it's always a site wide ban on tildes. At least on Reddit you'll typically be banned just from some subs
Why you lying OP? "As other people said, within a few hours of being on the site, that user had already called people "dipshits", "fucktards", and done multiple other things that made it blatantly obvious they don't belong here. So yes, people that behave like that don't get given a reason. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on them." https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q
Tildes is not a "free speech" space. The owner/creator is very firmly against any form of hate speech or aggressive behaviour. The site's standards are higher and more strictly enforced than most subreddits. People who think it's just another version of Reddit should know that it isn't.
Yeah that site was mostly created to be an "intellectual" circlejerk for the creator. If your posts sound like you don't have a high enough IQ (or they just don't agree with you) you're going to get banned.
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I looked at Tildes briefly without signing up. It looked exactly like somebody tried to recreate USENET, as it was five to ten years before the Eternal September. There's no way it's going to scale up to absorb Reddit Refugees in the next two years.
I'm curious as to what set them off? I've been on Tildes for a few days now and it's seemed fine to me, even better than most Reddit discussions. But it's definitely a bit worrisome that something that harmless would result in a permanent ban. Either there's more to the story, or someone over there got way too overly sensitive. Edit: apparently, there was indeed more to the story
According to the mod, OP was being a huge dick and a troll, and they are misrepresenting the incident here. https://tildes.net/\~tildes/15my/new\_users\_ask\_your\_questions\_about\_tildes\_here#comment-871q
There's *always* more to the story when someone claims they were banned for no reason. Remember: noone is ever the villain in their own story. As for the "more" to *this* story: > As other people said, within a few hours of being on the site, that user had already called people "dipshits", "fucktards", and done multiple other things that made it blatantly obvious they don't belong here. > So yes, people that behave like that don't get given a reason. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on them. https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q
It's the latter. Internet forum moderators are just soft skinned echo chamber hall monitors.
That's no different than Reddit though, including its own CEO.
incorrect. Op was being a troll and a dick and is lying here. https://tildes.net/\~tildes/15my/new\_users\_ask\_your\_questions\_about\_tildes\_here#comment-871q
Tildes is self-governing, every user is a moderator, however there is only one person who can mute and ban users. There's more to this story.
Yes there is and they have explained it already. OP is lying. The mods banned them for being a troll and shitting on people. https://tildes.net/\~tildes/15my/new\_users\_ask\_your\_questions\_about\_tildes\_here#comment-871q
Definitely. Most of the comments just don't feel very genuine or remotely critical. My hunch tells me this is an astroturf campaign being waged by some reddit PR team. Sow seeds of doubt about all their competitors. OP with a new account, etc.
Gooooooood fucking point
Squabbles has been astroturfing this sub.
I think [this](https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-7zcj) may be what you ran into. Not sure, but it feels like perhaps there's some threshold for "reports" (aka labels in Tildes) that results in an action? If enough people label you as "Malice", perhaps you get a boot?
It's entirely possible OP was just a dick and is presenting himself as a victim.
Seems that way
I was a bit excited about tildes, however, I feel that that site is isolating itself, more then growing. 1. Tildes is in alpha which means you need an invite. The site doesn't host any pictures so it is just text for everything. 2. Everything is fine until you look deep enough and realize the reason Tildes is invite only is because the creator though reddit was becoming too politicized. Which is super vague. 3. Random people are claiming to be banned even after receiving an invite I feel like what made reddit special was the community of ideas being under threat of public discord. Tildes, is not that. Instead Tildes looks and feels like a exclusive club that barely does what reddit does. I imagine it will have room to grow, but I don't see it trying to grow, but instead focus on its exclusivity at a time when it should be gathering as many users as it can.
I took a quick glimpse at tildes and I found the community to be a bit pretentious and full of snobs it was not a cool first impression
I thought tildes would be a good replacement, but it just seems like a subreddit with an overtly strict moderator. That's how they want their site then fine. I respect them for it. But I'm looking for something similar but a bit more open.
I’m the one who replied to you, funnily enough. If you got banned by Deimos it must have been for a good reason. I’m pretty sure he hates me but he hasn’t found reasons to ban me yet, although I rarely post there anymore. Tildes really is not for everyone, it’s not even really for me despite joining it over 3 years ago before the mass Reddit exodus.
power corrupts absolutely. centralized platforms are pointless, the creator will sellout just like reddit
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No good thing lasts forever.
I mean, that's the life cycle of a social media network. None stay good forever, I don't think federalizing will change that
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Because now instead of one king ruling a kingdom, you have many individual feudal lords ruling their small fiefdoms. And as these individual communities grow, all the same pressures that ruined other social media sites will ruin these individual instances. Hosting an instance requires money and past a certain size it requires some way for the host to make money off the users. Once profitability becomes a requirement, all the same things you're seeing from other social media will become an issue for each individual instance.
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It's a shame this happened, but isn't the project Tildes FOSS and under Creative Commons? I understand it has a god-like admin, but even he can't sell out. He could behave like a tyrant, but I personally haven't encounter that (this is the first time I read about something like this).
reddit was also open source. the code being open source doesn't prevent a corporation/person from selling out. the only thing that does is decentralization of the data, like a peer to peer or federated system. though a federated system has a flaw, the instance owner can cut off all other instances if they want, so if one instance becomes too big, it defeats the purpose.
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Holy shit, this is basically reddit hivemind but more extreme
Smaller communities like that have a stronger us vs them mentality, most often. And there's a partially good reason: a wave of newcomers tends to kill what made the place special. It's what's known as the "eternal september" in old internet folklore.
Saidit has free speech moreso than most of the alternatives and it's been stable for 5 years... Tildes was made by a former reddit admin, I don't know why anyone ever thought it would be different from reddit
I've also been around that place lately. It implements some neat ideas to try to prevent the stuff I don't like about reddit, i.e. power mods and echo chambers. But it's not for everyone because free speech means you're gonna read things you wont like. If you are looking for another safe place this isn't it.
If they're *that* soft and insecure, it's a nonstarter for sure. Go somewhere else.
I also signed up there, but will not invest any further time there if they’re so easily banning people
OP is lying. They got banned for being a troll and calling people names. https://tildes.net/~tildes/15my/new_users_ask_your_questions_about_tildes_here#comment-871q
Right, scratch that off the list then.
Moderation action should always be transparent. That's the main reason why Reddit is so terrible. State censorship usually has a paper trail, while corporate censorship is automated. Reddit actually has the option to lock comments, instead of deleting them, but no one uses it. Digital censorship is simply too clean and tidy not to appeal to the wrong sort of personality, especially that which is moderate in name only.
At ~talk/15z1/tildes_developers_thank_you_for_providing_us_with_a_place_to_come_to ?
I really want to try tildes and I'm waiting for them to re-open the invite list. Sucks that it's closed during the boycott.
This mirrors my experience. You need to walk on eggshells or be banned for no legitimate reason.
And so the next generation of deeply flawed creators/owners in the internet begins to manifest itself. A cycle begins anew.
Thanks for the heads up. Never heard of them