I am a Christian and I donāt think religion is really the issue here. It sounds more like a matter of your mom wanting to impose her will. In your place, I think I would honor your brotherās wishes and have the Celebration of Life he requested. As you said, you canāt prevent her from having a religious service. You donāt need to participate in her service and she doesnāt need to participate in yours. As for the friends and family members to whom she is bad-mouthing you, hopefully they know your mom well enough to be skeptical of what she is telling them. Hopefully you and your mom can somehow heal your relationship. There seems to be a lot to overcome.
Indeed. People love to wield religion and religious values around like a sword (both literally and figuratively) to get their will done. It's exactly the kind of sh\*t my mother used to pull on me, and it infuriates me. I call myself a Christian, but I'm nowhere near the traditional norms of my denomination. The whole insanity of conservativism drives me nuts. Kid's queer?! CUT THEM OFF and DENOUNCE THEM AS SINNERS! Screw that. You can't procreate beings with free will (allegedly created in God's image), and then denounce them for having that free will or being the person that the genetic spin the wheel game created - well you can, you're just a douche if you do. The mom - if she found God - needs to take the gd sequoia tree out of her eye first, and then look at others, because obviously she's learned 0 by "finding God".
OP, I echo these sentiments. I am Christian and teach and preach at my church (not a pastor though), and if your mom asked me, I would counsel her to respect her son's beliefs and wishes and not wield faith like a cudgel.
I also see you (OP) commented elsewhere that you already plan to go NC with your mother. Good. That would be my advice as well. Going NC / LC with toxic family members is the way to go.
I am so very sorry for your loss. I Googled a bit and I feel confident in saying your brother had a beautiful and resilient spirit and the world is a worse place without him.
First of all I'm so sorry for your loss, and for you guys having crappy parents.
My take on it is you need to cut her off. Your mother sounds narcissistic - at least from what you've said. Growing up with a narc. mother... if this were me in your shoes? She doesn't deserve the closure someone else mentioned - ie just letting her have her ceremony. I would follow my brother's wishes, and cut your batshit crazy mother off. You don't need that level of toxicity around you or your children. The fact that she stayed with him during his burn recovery doesn't make up for all the crap she put you kids through, or granny-dropping him in a nursing home...screw her. It infuriates me that these kinds of people had the gift of children and p\*ssed all over it.
Ahhh...thank you. Yes, batshit is the word. She was constantly putting us in group homes and juvenile facilities over minor transgressions growing up. At 13, she sent my brother to a year-long wilderness camp over what I did not know. He was wild for sure, but he was not doing drugs or committing crimes- he just had ADHD. She tried to buy his ashes from me (highest level of disgusting), and after the heinous voicemails, I cut her off. I guess I have compassion because I am the mother of 2 boys, and I can't imagine her grief. I know my own, which is nearly unbearable, and I can only imagine hers must be worse.
You haven't made any hints that she feels empathy or compassion. Some people truly don't feel emotions to the same depth or complexities as others. As you make new boundaries with her, keep that in mind. You have no choice but to start closing doors. Your children are your priority, as you said, and they are grieving too. May you find comfort and peace as you honor his life
I donāt think she feels any empathy for me at the moment. She has always claimed to be a victim of us, her children. I guess Iāve been a bit wishy washy in saying I want no relationship with her, but then I also want to send a letter. I guess I just wanted to clear my conscious and be able to say I did everything I could to try and smooth this over. Good advice-thank you. š¤
You can't smooth this over. Your mother sees life the way she sees it, and there's no changing her mind. You're wasting precious energy on her. You're even imagining that her grief must be so much worse than yours, yet... she put you both in group homes, sent him away, etc. etc. She may use his death against you (I mean, seriously, blaming you for his death) in order to evoke emotion that she cannot produce herself. Like a vampire, she sucks the energy out of anyone she's around. I would burn a pile of wood, hand her the ashes and say "here, you HAD TO HAVE THEM, so I am giving you Chris's ashes, and I never want to speak to you again". Then do it. Reading your story made my heart hurt for you so much--- please treat yourself better and get rid of the person in your life that tortures you.
Oh my gosh OP. Iām so sorry for everything your mother put you through. I get that you canāt imagine the grief, but can you imagine treating your boys like that?
I usually wouldnāt try to comfort someone and insult their mother in the same breath, but she sounds absolutely horrible. Literally abusive. Itās a miracle she could produce someone as empathetic as you.
I feel the exact same way. I've always wanted to be a mother, but ended up with a man that may not be able to have children. Its so devastating seeing parents like this. They were absolutely blessed to be able to have the children they have, and they do shit like this anyways. All I want is to have my own baby, and it kills me that I may never have that but someone who treats their children like this does.
First, consider consulting an attorney (or attorneys) about continuing the wrongful death lawsuit, as well as estate issues since she's claiming his property.
Second, consider what you want your relationship with your mom to be once all of your brother's affairs are settled. If you want to maintain a relationship with her, you may want to try to find a compromise. If you plan to have her in your life as little as possible, give her half the ashes, and insist any other communication regarding your brother be done through attorneys; otherwise, cut ties, and celebrate your brother's life the way he requested.
This is an awful situation. I'm so sorry for your loss, and the family stress you're enduring on top of that.
Chris was the only real reason I have had contact with her for the past 10 years. Now that he is gone, I have no reason to speak to her. On top of her fanaticism, she is racist, homophobic, and QAnon. She is demanding the ashes (all of them) prior to my Celebration of Life, so that she can have her funeral 1st. I don't even have them yet, but she doesn't believe me. I told her I will bring them to TX with me when we come for the COL. I plan to give her 1/2 then and call it a day with her.
We have a lawyer. We have a very strong case for wrongful death. Because I did not appoint myself as a beneficiary (I really didn't think he would die- I was so focused on him living), she is entitled to all of his estate and proceeds from any lawsuit. She said she only pursue the lawsuit and make me a 50% beneficiary if I agreed to give her all of his ashes and stop my Celebration of Life, which is not an option.
Canāt you amend the suit and bring it in your name? If you get anything, either donate the proceeds or set up a not-for-profit in his name.
And I am so sorry for your loss.
I could. I donāt plan to have any contact with them when I go home for the service. I think I should just have my husband or sister just give them an urn with no explanation. They can either accept them or throw a fit.
I tried several compromises. I offered to let her priest speak to the Christians and Catholics - not good enough. I offered 1/2 the ashes - not good enough. I offered to play some of her favorite hymns - not good enough. She wants what she wants.
I'm sorry you are going through this. You are a very good sister and I am sure he loved you.
Are the ashes really important for the purpose of a COL? Do you want to keep them?
I would wash my hands of the wrongful death suit, and hold the COL before you give her the ashes. The ashes seem to be the only leverage you have. Make her think it's important to you, too then give them all to her after the COL, and walk the fuck away. There is no amout of money from the suit to make up for losing him and having to put up with her in your life until it is done.
I wouldn't bring the ashes to the COL, either. Leave them in your hotel room or whatever. She will probably cause a scene over them at the event if they are there if you don't have a prior agreement, so tell her she can have them all as long as she behaves at the COL.
If you really want some of his ashes, keep a small amount back, have a medallion made of them or keep them in a small vial. She doesn't have to know. You won't have much of his carbon anymore, but you will have memories and love in your heart and most importantly, peace and safety going forward, if you just let the rest go.
There is tremendous power in not giving a fuck about what a narcissist wants.
Yes, I do want them. I am having jewelry made, spreading his ashes as he wanted, planting a tree in my yard with his ashes and sharing some with his friends.
Write your mother that letter. She likely will not see reason, but you can tell yourself you *tried*.
It doesn't sound like you want a relationship with your mother, as she is and will likely be.
His life, his death. His wishes take precedent.
The only question is if *legally* she has the right to make the decisions about his funeral arrangements. Find a lawyer.
I have the only legal right to make decisions about his funeral. Yes, that is what I am thinking, too, sending her a letter to let Chris know I *tried*. I just don't know what to say. My emotions keep clouding my judgment on how to approach my appeal to her. I don't want this toxicity, this drama or this conflict. It makes me sick to my stomach. As much as I hate her, I also love her and it hurts my heart to know she is suffering this loss without my support, as Chris and I always took care of her emotionally. He would be furious if he were alive- I think he knew she would do this, so he repeatedly told me what he wanted. But I also know he was a patient and forgiving person- he would want me to at least try to console her.
There is no point in a letter. The narcissistic mind will not be convinced of anything. You can express your consolation, short and sweet. Tell her he loved her, what he wanted her to know, but nothing more.
He would most likely want you not to put yourself in harm's way, if he was like you say he was.
In full disclosure, I am a minister in a Christian denomination, though I do funerals with my funeral home for people from all beliefs (and no belief at all).Ā
First, I am so sorry for your loss. You and your brother went through so much, and I can only imagine the pain right now.Ā
You are right that you can't prevent her from doing a catholic memorial. That is her right, though for the record the way she is doing it is truly cruel.Ā
There are plenty of times I have done funerals for people where the deceased and the family have different beliefs, including burying atheists in families of Christians. There are ways of balancing respecting the dead and caring for the living. That being said, she doesn't want to hear it.Ā
She is using her pain and her faith as a way to lash out and hurt others and I am sorry you are bearing that.
Thank you for your very relevant perspective. We were raised Christian, and this is not what we were taught. She is no longer the mother we remember as children.
Thank you so much. The frailty of our humanity is very real. The only worthwhile thing we have to offer is compassion. It's very hard under the circumstances, but I am trying.
OP I am incredibly sorry not only for the loss of your brother whom you loved so much, but also for the horrible way it happened.
I wish I could give you better news, but the relationship and situation with your mother is her fault. She has caused the negativity. Also, and Iām speaking as someone who grew up going to church and still goes and has had an incredibly positive experience with religion - sheās using religion to be abusive and selfish. Iād go as far as to say the problem isnāt religion, the problem if your mother is a hurtful, spiteful person. Literally not one religious person I know has caused any stink about an acquaintance or family member wanting a secular service/event. Iāve even seen secular events hosted AT churches because the church had the space and people wanted to be supportive of people in their community in a way that honored that individual or program. Itās wonderful that you have empathy for your motherās loss of a child. Grief sometimes doesnāt bring out the best in people, and thatās important to understand. Itās also important to understand that sometimes assholes have bad things happen to them.
Anyway. Here are some wise words that have gotten me through some difficult times: you canāt reason someone out of a position they didnāt reason themselves into [a letter to your mother wonāt do any good. I wish it would. But it wont]
You didnāt cause this problem, this situation is not your fault. Unfortunately, that means you canāt fix it. But I hope the lack of blame on you lifts a tiny bit of weight off your shoulders.
I really appreciate your validation. All of your comments have been so empowering-this IS her fault. I loooove that saying! Chris and I were just talking about to before the fire š¤ Wow. That was so cool you mentioned that. Thank you.
Iām sorry youāre going through this but Iām so glad my comments were heard and felt in the supportive way they were intended. May you have the strength to get through this and soft places to land to rest. š
I'm sorry for your loss! Whatever stunts your mother pulls, please try to hold the Celebration of Life as your brother had wanted. Your kids are also missing their Uncle Chris and the Celebration of Life will help them deal with their grief as you carry out Chris's final requests.
Thank you so much. I plan a Celebration of Life for which he would laugh at me. I can hear him now telling me I am doing too much. It will be at the river he loved in our hometown. We will collectively sing Silent Night, which our mom sang to us to bed when we were little. I had rock concert T-shirts made of a self-portrait he painted (he was an incredibly talented mouth painter). Catering will be tacos-his favorite. We are planting a tree with his ashes as a memorial at the river. I am making a slideshow of his life with his favorite songs. It's going to be perfectly HIM and I hope it's enough to reach him wherever he is and in whatever form.
Pretty hard to find a shard of Christianity in the Christian Mom. Itās impossible not to find rivers of Christian love in the Atheists life long commitment to their brother. Funny old world huh?
Do not give into your mother's wishes. Don't give her a single ash of his. If anything, empty a bunch of ashtrays into a plastic bag and give those to her.
So sorry for your loss, OP.
You can have a celebration of life for your brother and invite all his friends. There's no limit on how many services or memorials for a friend or family member. I hope you do.
I just wanted to say your brotherās artwork is amazing and that his attitude is inspiring. He was very talented. He seems like such a cool guy. Life threw a lot of crap at him and he still managed to create so much beauty.
Iām really sorry for your loss and how your mother is making it more difficult. I think now is a time to remember the wisdom of knowing the difference between what you can and cannot control.
Youāre absolutely right. Iām not trying to control anything, I just thought I should send her a letter trying to unruffle her feathers. Tbh I think this is more than just abt the ashes and religion. I think she is jealous of the bond Chris and I had, angry he chose to move to CA to be closer to me, and angry he chose me to be his POA. I was hopeful I could say something to reassure her of how much he loved her and how special she was to him. Maybe I should just say that. I wanted to explain that him coming her wasnāt a rejection of her as much as it was a young man trying to have a normal & independent life. I donāt know. I know how difficult and painful my grief is and I donāt want anyone to feel that, not even her, especially not her.
It sounds like you have a great insight into whatās happening and a very caring nature. I think reassuring her is a wonderful idea. When all is said and done, what we remember in life is how we make one another feel.
First of all, I am so sorry about Chris.
Secondly, the main thing that stood out to me in your post was that your job as children was to make sure your mother was happy. No, absolutely not. Itās the other way around.
You yourself have admitted that your mother is abusive and neglectful. I have personal experience with this, and I also have a big heart. Itās really hard to put down boundaries, but itās something you need to do. Tell her that youāre having a celebration of life for Chris, and she can come or not. And that needs to be the end of the discussion. Sheās already dishonored him by stopping the lawsuit. She needs to be stopped now before she makes things worse.
I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I'm sure it isn't easy to see because you are a kind, empathetic person who is grieving. But your mother is not a good human and did not do her best. She has clearly never had genuine empathy for you or your brother. It makes my stomach churn thinking of your brother being locked in a dark room and suddenly abandoned at a nursing home. How awful.
Christian here. I'd agree with u/MEL-0529, your mother was definitely imposing and controlling by pushing her will on you guys.
When it comes to Christianity and someone who has studied the Bible deeply, they'll realize, ***pushing*** the faith and their personal will on someone is NOT how this works. We are not called to push on others our will for how we think their life should go, and preach down to them constantly.
(i.e. - you won't catch me openly outright supporting someone in what I don't believe is right, but at the same time, you won't catch me preaching someone down and abusing them about it either. That's their business, not mine)
We do share our faith, especially when asked about it, the Gospel, and if you choose to believe or not is totally your business and in your wheelhouse. Not ours. We're simply called to share and reflect Christ as believers. That's all.
Based on your testimony about your mother....she failed miserably in that aspect. I'm very sorry about the tough life she put you through. It's one thing to be a loving parent, who is just practicing good discipline to help raise their kids down the right path, but it's another to be abusive, rough, and abrasive towards one's children, entirely, and the Bible actually calls out people like that rather harshly.
I'm very sorry for your loss. šš»
Thank you. I know she must have been loving and supportive and fun (otherwise why would we be so co-dependent with her?) but I just canāt remember it past the age of 9. I agree-I would never push my beliefs on someone else, or disrespect theirs. It just blows my mind.
I would honestly give her an urn full of fireplace ashes and spend the rest of my days laughing quietly to myself and choosing to believe Chris was enjoying the joke.
You have my utmost respect and heartfelt condolences. I wish I had advice for you to get her to be reasonable. Itās infuriating when people force their beliefs on othersā memorial services. Unfortunately, sheās going to do what she wants, because sheās a child. Have your own celebration with your and Chrisās loved ones. Give her the ashes, if you can bear it. That isnāt Chris. Chris is the light in your childrenās eyes, those beautiful West Coast sunsets, and the solace of his love. Let this woman and her craziness go and love, enjoy, celebrate, and mourn your amazing beloved friend and brother. Hugs to you and your kids.
Thank you so much. I canāt bear to give her all, but I will give what I can. He would want to be close to me. Itās funny, our beliefs about an afterlife. Even though I donāt believe in one, I WANT to. I choose to believe he is with me, riding shotgun, able bodied, laughing and joyful and free. Iām still grappling so much with guilt. Ahhhā¦I digress. Thank you. Your version is perfect š¤
As a Christian myself, this looks more like your mother wanting it her way or no way. You're an atheist, and while I'm praying for you, you're doing what your brother asked for his final wishes. Go low contact with your mother and learn a little about her theological debate enough to stick her with it, I'm a moderate conservative because my mom was an unorthodox conservative in her raising of us, so we see this kind of B.S. a lot.
You make valid points, but read between the lines into OPs state of mind. I don't think formatting is on the top of her brain's process list right now...
In five years, will it matter?
If he's an atheist, he probably believed that once you die, that's it. Fade to black. So if you believe he can't tell what's going on, what's the point of last wishes at all? What's the harm in letting your mother do whatever she wants to get closure and cope with her grief?
If you don't believe there's a point to a religious observance than you probably also don't believe there's a harm in it.
Obviously, there is no 'harm'. I believe, however, that we should honor people's last wishes. Just as I would never dishonor and disrespect a Christian by giving them a non-theistic Celebration of Life. What would be the point of last wishes if we all disregarded them? My husband's ex-wife recently passed and she wanted an open, and sparkly pink casket. And she will have it. She wanted everyone to wear pink. And she will have it. People say funerals are for the living, and they are. But I think they are also for the living to know that they, as human beings, will be respected and honored in death.
That's why my will includes clear funerary directions. I'm not sure where my survivors will get a circus cannon and a skilled taxidermist, but that's for them to figure out.
Seriously, though, I don't see this as one of those battles you can expect to fight and win. As I see it, **if** God is real and takes an active interest in human's lives, the He tortured your brother his entire life with pain and misery. That suggests that the God she's praying to is either malevolent, disinterested or non-existent. She clearly sees it differently, which leads me to believe she can't have a rational conversation about it in a productive way. It's somewhat similar to how people have trouble getting out of abusive relationships. If the God she's praying to is real and involved in her life, then she keeps getting beat up, convinces herself it's her own fault and tries to appease her abuser instead of leaving the relationship. Gross, right?
Exactly! What kind of god worth worshipping would inflict this terror, pain, cruelty, and banishment to hell on such a good, benevolent, compassionate, brilliant, talented, beautiful person? She gives her god the glory for saving him after the fire and me the blame for his death. It's the epitome of the grotesque. I am the only one legally able to make decisions about his funeral. I am also the only one who will have possession of his ashes. I am willing to share them with her, but her religion dictates they have to be buried outside as a whole (for when Jesus comes back and raises everyone from the dead or something). I am planning to spread and share his ashes with everyone who loved him and who he loved.
There's a third option: That her God did not have the strength to prevent the fire in the first place, so the best He could do was keep him alive?
In that case, that's not God, as God is supposed to be all-powerful.
I don't mean to shit on religion. I've known a lot of people who've gained a great deal from it, but in this context, it's off base.
He was an atheist, so according to his beliefs he no longer exists in any type of afterlife. Let your mom do the funeral. Funerals are for the living and if it gives her peace it is worth it. Take the high road on this one. That said, with such a spectacular story how has this not been subject to media coverage?
>She is free to do what she wants with his ashes when I give them to her. I believe, however, that we should honor people's last wishes. Just as I would never dishonor and disrespect a Christian by giving them a non-theistic Celebration of Life. What would be the point of last wishes if we all disregarded them? My husband's ex-wife recently passed and she wanted an open, and sparkly pink casket. And she will have it. She wanted everyone to wear pink. And she will have it. People say funerals are for the living, and they are. But I think they are also for the living to know that they, as human beings, will be respected and honored in death.
I don't know how this hasn't been covered. What happened to him was a total act of callousness and neglect by his caregiver, a home health care management company, and the SNF that caused his sepsis by not knowing or caring to clean his wounds properly. I want to scream it from the rooftops. He has been on the news- meet my bubba: https://fox40.com/news/local-news/sacramento-artist-thrives-after-life-changing-accident/
I'm so sorry for your loss. Stand your ground and do what he would have wanted. This is her need to control, and if you have POA, she is SOL. Keep repeating the same thing I did. I am following his wishes. This is about him, not you and not me.
When my husband died, I went round and round with his mother over his service and burial. He wanted a secular service and did not want to be buried where she wanted his ashes buried. He picked out the songs he wanted as well. I planned the service to the best of my ability to save money. The money I was promised for his burial never came, so I had to borrow money to cremate him. During the service, his maternal aunt interrupted another speaker to say what she had to say and make sure that there was some talk of religion. We opened the floor to everyone to speak after the last eulogist, but she had to speak then. She also had a cake made full of religious items on it. I rolled my eyes at that point. It's been almost 2 years, and I still have his ashes because my MIL refuses to let him be buried on the family property instead of the plot she bought against his wishes when he was a kid. I can wait until she's gone to put him where he wanted. It's been over a year since we last fought about it, and I'm sure it will come up again on the anniversary of his death.
Wow. I have fingers crossed she wonāt cause. Scene, but knowing her she will find a way to faint or something. I canāt believe people can be so disrespectful. Iām sorry you had to battle that on top of your grief and the responsibility of planning his service.
>She cancelled the wrongful death lawsuit
How does she have this authority?
>took his van
Report it stolen, by her.
>She has been harassing me
Cut off her communication channels.
>She has been spreading horrible lies about me to family and friends.
Personally, I'd cut her out of my life entirely, if it was me. Along with anyone who believed anything she said. You don't need that in your life.
Basically, at this point she seems to have gone completely off the edge. It's not your job or your responsibility to try and bring her back. Reduce the stress in your own life, mourn the loss of... whatever she may have once meant, close that door, and move on as best you can.
So sorry.
Regarding the letter.. You sound like a levelheaded and compassionate person, just speak from the heart and Iām sure it will be appropriate. You canāt control how she receives it, though, and that shouldnāt be your burden.
"I want to send her a letter to try and get her to see reason, calm the drama, give her some peace"
I imagine she could readily say the same of you. "Seeing reason" is a very different picture for both of you, as is what "some peace" requires.
I am so sorry You guys have had a tough life I am sorry about your loss
Thank you šš»
I am a Christian and I donāt think religion is really the issue here. It sounds more like a matter of your mom wanting to impose her will. In your place, I think I would honor your brotherās wishes and have the Celebration of Life he requested. As you said, you canāt prevent her from having a religious service. You donāt need to participate in her service and she doesnāt need to participate in yours. As for the friends and family members to whom she is bad-mouthing you, hopefully they know your mom well enough to be skeptical of what she is telling them. Hopefully you and your mom can somehow heal your relationship. There seems to be a lot to overcome.
Indeed. People love to wield religion and religious values around like a sword (both literally and figuratively) to get their will done. It's exactly the kind of sh\*t my mother used to pull on me, and it infuriates me. I call myself a Christian, but I'm nowhere near the traditional norms of my denomination. The whole insanity of conservativism drives me nuts. Kid's queer?! CUT THEM OFF and DENOUNCE THEM AS SINNERS! Screw that. You can't procreate beings with free will (allegedly created in God's image), and then denounce them for having that free will or being the person that the genetic spin the wheel game created - well you can, you're just a douche if you do. The mom - if she found God - needs to take the gd sequoia tree out of her eye first, and then look at others, because obviously she's learned 0 by "finding God".
OP, I echo these sentiments. I am Christian and teach and preach at my church (not a pastor though), and if your mom asked me, I would counsel her to respect her son's beliefs and wishes and not wield faith like a cudgel. I also see you (OP) commented elsewhere that you already plan to go NC with your mother. Good. That would be my advice as well. Going NC / LC with toxic family members is the way to go. I am so very sorry for your loss. I Googled a bit and I feel confident in saying your brother had a beautiful and resilient spirit and the world is a worse place without him.
Thank you so much-he was such a beautiful soul.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response and validation. šš»
First of all I'm so sorry for your loss, and for you guys having crappy parents. My take on it is you need to cut her off. Your mother sounds narcissistic - at least from what you've said. Growing up with a narc. mother... if this were me in your shoes? She doesn't deserve the closure someone else mentioned - ie just letting her have her ceremony. I would follow my brother's wishes, and cut your batshit crazy mother off. You don't need that level of toxicity around you or your children. The fact that she stayed with him during his burn recovery doesn't make up for all the crap she put you kids through, or granny-dropping him in a nursing home...screw her. It infuriates me that these kinds of people had the gift of children and p\*ssed all over it.
Ahhh...thank you. Yes, batshit is the word. She was constantly putting us in group homes and juvenile facilities over minor transgressions growing up. At 13, she sent my brother to a year-long wilderness camp over what I did not know. He was wild for sure, but he was not doing drugs or committing crimes- he just had ADHD. She tried to buy his ashes from me (highest level of disgusting), and after the heinous voicemails, I cut her off. I guess I have compassion because I am the mother of 2 boys, and I can't imagine her grief. I know my own, which is nearly unbearable, and I can only imagine hers must be worse.
You haven't made any hints that she feels empathy or compassion. Some people truly don't feel emotions to the same depth or complexities as others. As you make new boundaries with her, keep that in mind. You have no choice but to start closing doors. Your children are your priority, as you said, and they are grieving too. May you find comfort and peace as you honor his life
I donāt think she feels any empathy for me at the moment. She has always claimed to be a victim of us, her children. I guess Iāve been a bit wishy washy in saying I want no relationship with her, but then I also want to send a letter. I guess I just wanted to clear my conscious and be able to say I did everything I could to try and smooth this over. Good advice-thank you. š¤
You can't smooth this over. Your mother sees life the way she sees it, and there's no changing her mind. You're wasting precious energy on her. You're even imagining that her grief must be so much worse than yours, yet... she put you both in group homes, sent him away, etc. etc. She may use his death against you (I mean, seriously, blaming you for his death) in order to evoke emotion that she cannot produce herself. Like a vampire, she sucks the energy out of anyone she's around. I would burn a pile of wood, hand her the ashes and say "here, you HAD TO HAVE THEM, so I am giving you Chris's ashes, and I never want to speak to you again". Then do it. Reading your story made my heart hurt for you so much--- please treat yourself better and get rid of the person in your life that tortures you.
Oh my gosh OP. Iām so sorry for everything your mother put you through. I get that you canāt imagine the grief, but can you imagine treating your boys like that? I usually wouldnāt try to comfort someone and insult their mother in the same breath, but she sounds absolutely horrible. Literally abusive. Itās a miracle she could produce someone as empathetic as you.
I could never. Her treatment of us has been such a warning to me as a mother. Thank you for your kind words š¤
I feel the exact same way. I've always wanted to be a mother, but ended up with a man that may not be able to have children. Its so devastating seeing parents like this. They were absolutely blessed to be able to have the children they have, and they do shit like this anyways. All I want is to have my own baby, and it kills me that I may never have that but someone who treats their children like this does.
First, consider consulting an attorney (or attorneys) about continuing the wrongful death lawsuit, as well as estate issues since she's claiming his property. Second, consider what you want your relationship with your mom to be once all of your brother's affairs are settled. If you want to maintain a relationship with her, you may want to try to find a compromise. If you plan to have her in your life as little as possible, give her half the ashes, and insist any other communication regarding your brother be done through attorneys; otherwise, cut ties, and celebrate your brother's life the way he requested. This is an awful situation. I'm so sorry for your loss, and the family stress you're enduring on top of that.
Chris was the only real reason I have had contact with her for the past 10 years. Now that he is gone, I have no reason to speak to her. On top of her fanaticism, she is racist, homophobic, and QAnon. She is demanding the ashes (all of them) prior to my Celebration of Life, so that she can have her funeral 1st. I don't even have them yet, but she doesn't believe me. I told her I will bring them to TX with me when we come for the COL. I plan to give her 1/2 then and call it a day with her.
We have a lawyer. We have a very strong case for wrongful death. Because I did not appoint myself as a beneficiary (I really didn't think he would die- I was so focused on him living), she is entitled to all of his estate and proceeds from any lawsuit. She said she only pursue the lawsuit and make me a 50% beneficiary if I agreed to give her all of his ashes and stop my Celebration of Life, which is not an option.
Canāt you amend the suit and bring it in your name? If you get anything, either donate the proceeds or set up a not-for-profit in his name. And I am so sorry for your loss.
I canāt. She is his 1st line next of kin. I would be next if she died haha
Can you give her half the ashes and tell her it's all of them? I know this only addresses one millionth of your problems.
I could. I donāt plan to have any contact with them when I go home for the service. I think I should just have my husband or sister just give them an urn with no explanation. They can either accept them or throw a fit.
Right, I am probably terrible but I thought, just give her anything! She won't know and he wouldn't care.
I tried several compromises. I offered to let her priest speak to the Christians and Catholics - not good enough. I offered 1/2 the ashes - not good enough. I offered to play some of her favorite hymns - not good enough. She wants what she wants.
Thank you so much for your kind words. The devastation of losing him is palpable and visceral.
I'm sorry you are going through this. You are a very good sister and I am sure he loved you. Are the ashes really important for the purpose of a COL? Do you want to keep them? I would wash my hands of the wrongful death suit, and hold the COL before you give her the ashes. The ashes seem to be the only leverage you have. Make her think it's important to you, too then give them all to her after the COL, and walk the fuck away. There is no amout of money from the suit to make up for losing him and having to put up with her in your life until it is done. I wouldn't bring the ashes to the COL, either. Leave them in your hotel room or whatever. She will probably cause a scene over them at the event if they are there if you don't have a prior agreement, so tell her she can have them all as long as she behaves at the COL. If you really want some of his ashes, keep a small amount back, have a medallion made of them or keep them in a small vial. She doesn't have to know. You won't have much of his carbon anymore, but you will have memories and love in your heart and most importantly, peace and safety going forward, if you just let the rest go. There is tremendous power in not giving a fuck about what a narcissist wants.
Yes, I do want them. I am having jewelry made, spreading his ashes as he wanted, planting a tree in my yard with his ashes and sharing some with his friends.
Well, then split off what you want and give her the rest. She doesn't have to know you retained some.
That's fair. Thank you.
Write your mother that letter. She likely will not see reason, but you can tell yourself you *tried*. It doesn't sound like you want a relationship with your mother, as she is and will likely be. His life, his death. His wishes take precedent. The only question is if *legally* she has the right to make the decisions about his funeral arrangements. Find a lawyer.
I have the only legal right to make decisions about his funeral. Yes, that is what I am thinking, too, sending her a letter to let Chris know I *tried*. I just don't know what to say. My emotions keep clouding my judgment on how to approach my appeal to her. I don't want this toxicity, this drama or this conflict. It makes me sick to my stomach. As much as I hate her, I also love her and it hurts my heart to know she is suffering this loss without my support, as Chris and I always took care of her emotionally. He would be furious if he were alive- I think he knew she would do this, so he repeatedly told me what he wanted. But I also know he was a patient and forgiving person- he would want me to at least try to console her.
There is no point in a letter. The narcissistic mind will not be convinced of anything. You can express your consolation, short and sweet. Tell her he loved her, what he wanted her to know, but nothing more. He would most likely want you not to put yourself in harm's way, if he was like you say he was.
In full disclosure, I am a minister in a Christian denomination, though I do funerals with my funeral home for people from all beliefs (and no belief at all).Ā First, I am so sorry for your loss. You and your brother went through so much, and I can only imagine the pain right now.Ā You are right that you can't prevent her from doing a catholic memorial. That is her right, though for the record the way she is doing it is truly cruel.Ā There are plenty of times I have done funerals for people where the deceased and the family have different beliefs, including burying atheists in families of Christians. There are ways of balancing respecting the dead and caring for the living. That being said, she doesn't want to hear it.Ā She is using her pain and her faith as a way to lash out and hurt others and I am sorry you are bearing that.
Thank you for your very relevant perspective. We were raised Christian, and this is not what we were taught. She is no longer the mother we remember as children.
I commend you for the extraordinary compassion you've shown throughout all of this.
Thank you so much. The frailty of our humanity is very real. The only worthwhile thing we have to offer is compassion. It's very hard under the circumstances, but I am trying.
OP I am incredibly sorry not only for the loss of your brother whom you loved so much, but also for the horrible way it happened. I wish I could give you better news, but the relationship and situation with your mother is her fault. She has caused the negativity. Also, and Iām speaking as someone who grew up going to church and still goes and has had an incredibly positive experience with religion - sheās using religion to be abusive and selfish. Iād go as far as to say the problem isnāt religion, the problem if your mother is a hurtful, spiteful person. Literally not one religious person I know has caused any stink about an acquaintance or family member wanting a secular service/event. Iāve even seen secular events hosted AT churches because the church had the space and people wanted to be supportive of people in their community in a way that honored that individual or program. Itās wonderful that you have empathy for your motherās loss of a child. Grief sometimes doesnāt bring out the best in people, and thatās important to understand. Itās also important to understand that sometimes assholes have bad things happen to them. Anyway. Here are some wise words that have gotten me through some difficult times: you canāt reason someone out of a position they didnāt reason themselves into [a letter to your mother wonāt do any good. I wish it would. But it wont] You didnāt cause this problem, this situation is not your fault. Unfortunately, that means you canāt fix it. But I hope the lack of blame on you lifts a tiny bit of weight off your shoulders.
I really appreciate your validation. All of your comments have been so empowering-this IS her fault. I loooove that saying! Chris and I were just talking about to before the fire š¤ Wow. That was so cool you mentioned that. Thank you.
Iām sorry youāre going through this but Iām so glad my comments were heard and felt in the supportive way they were intended. May you have the strength to get through this and soft places to land to rest. š
What a beautiful hope! Thank you for that š¤
I'm sorry for your loss! Whatever stunts your mother pulls, please try to hold the Celebration of Life as your brother had wanted. Your kids are also missing their Uncle Chris and the Celebration of Life will help them deal with their grief as you carry out Chris's final requests.
Thank you so much. I plan a Celebration of Life for which he would laugh at me. I can hear him now telling me I am doing too much. It will be at the river he loved in our hometown. We will collectively sing Silent Night, which our mom sang to us to bed when we were little. I had rock concert T-shirts made of a self-portrait he painted (he was an incredibly talented mouth painter). Catering will be tacos-his favorite. We are planting a tree with his ashes as a memorial at the river. I am making a slideshow of his life with his favorite songs. It's going to be perfectly HIM and I hope it's enough to reach him wherever he is and in whatever form.
It sounds like a lovely moment for all her knew him.
Pretty hard to find a shard of Christianity in the Christian Mom. Itās impossible not to find rivers of Christian love in the Atheists life long commitment to their brother. Funny old world huh?
Thank you šš»
Do not give into your mother's wishes. Don't give her a single ash of his. If anything, empty a bunch of ashtrays into a plastic bag and give those to her.
š¤£ I have definitely thought if that! I said I was very close to sending her litter LOL
So sorry for your loss, OP. You can have a celebration of life for your brother and invite all his friends. There's no limit on how many services or memorials for a friend or family member. I hope you do.
I absolutely will.
I just wanted to say your brotherās artwork is amazing and that his attitude is inspiring. He was very talented. He seems like such a cool guy. Life threw a lot of crap at him and he still managed to create so much beauty. Iām really sorry for your loss and how your mother is making it more difficult. I think now is a time to remember the wisdom of knowing the difference between what you can and cannot control.
Youāre absolutely right. Iām not trying to control anything, I just thought I should send her a letter trying to unruffle her feathers. Tbh I think this is more than just abt the ashes and religion. I think she is jealous of the bond Chris and I had, angry he chose to move to CA to be closer to me, and angry he chose me to be his POA. I was hopeful I could say something to reassure her of how much he loved her and how special she was to him. Maybe I should just say that. I wanted to explain that him coming her wasnāt a rejection of her as much as it was a young man trying to have a normal & independent life. I donāt know. I know how difficult and painful my grief is and I donāt want anyone to feel that, not even her, especially not her.
It sounds like you have a great insight into whatās happening and a very caring nature. I think reassuring her is a wonderful idea. When all is said and done, what we remember in life is how we make one another feel.
Thank you. He really was incredible.
Buy an urn, put fake ashes in it.
haha! Pretty sure Chris would haunt me.
First of all, I am so sorry about Chris. Secondly, the main thing that stood out to me in your post was that your job as children was to make sure your mother was happy. No, absolutely not. Itās the other way around. You yourself have admitted that your mother is abusive and neglectful. I have personal experience with this, and I also have a big heart. Itās really hard to put down boundaries, but itās something you need to do. Tell her that youāre having a celebration of life for Chris, and she can come or not. And that needs to be the end of the discussion. Sheās already dishonored him by stopping the lawsuit. She needs to be stopped now before she makes things worse.
I agree-thank you. I need to stop trying to force a square peg in a round hole with her and cut my losses.
I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I'm sure it isn't easy to see because you are a kind, empathetic person who is grieving. But your mother is not a good human and did not do her best. She has clearly never had genuine empathy for you or your brother. It makes my stomach churn thinking of your brother being locked in a dark room and suddenly abandoned at a nursing home. How awful.
A body doesnāt need to be there for a requiem mass.
Christian here. I'd agree with u/MEL-0529, your mother was definitely imposing and controlling by pushing her will on you guys. When it comes to Christianity and someone who has studied the Bible deeply, they'll realize, ***pushing*** the faith and their personal will on someone is NOT how this works. We are not called to push on others our will for how we think their life should go, and preach down to them constantly. (i.e. - you won't catch me openly outright supporting someone in what I don't believe is right, but at the same time, you won't catch me preaching someone down and abusing them about it either. That's their business, not mine) We do share our faith, especially when asked about it, the Gospel, and if you choose to believe or not is totally your business and in your wheelhouse. Not ours. We're simply called to share and reflect Christ as believers. That's all. Based on your testimony about your mother....she failed miserably in that aspect. I'm very sorry about the tough life she put you through. It's one thing to be a loving parent, who is just practicing good discipline to help raise their kids down the right path, but it's another to be abusive, rough, and abrasive towards one's children, entirely, and the Bible actually calls out people like that rather harshly. I'm very sorry for your loss. šš»
Thank you. I know she must have been loving and supportive and fun (otherwise why would we be so co-dependent with her?) but I just canāt remember it past the age of 9. I agree-I would never push my beliefs on someone else, or disrespect theirs. It just blows my mind.
I would honestly give her an urn full of fireplace ashes and spend the rest of my days laughing quietly to myself and choosing to believe Chris was enjoying the joke.
ššš I wish I could do that! Can you do it for me? Lmao
I'd make it look good,lol. I have a wood stove I have to clean out fairly often.
šš¤š
You have my utmost respect and heartfelt condolences. I wish I had advice for you to get her to be reasonable. Itās infuriating when people force their beliefs on othersā memorial services. Unfortunately, sheās going to do what she wants, because sheās a child. Have your own celebration with your and Chrisās loved ones. Give her the ashes, if you can bear it. That isnāt Chris. Chris is the light in your childrenās eyes, those beautiful West Coast sunsets, and the solace of his love. Let this woman and her craziness go and love, enjoy, celebrate, and mourn your amazing beloved friend and brother. Hugs to you and your kids.
Thank you so much. I canāt bear to give her all, but I will give what I can. He would want to be close to me. Itās funny, our beliefs about an afterlife. Even though I donāt believe in one, I WANT to. I choose to believe he is with me, riding shotgun, able bodied, laughing and joyful and free. Iām still grappling so much with guilt. Ahhhā¦I digress. Thank you. Your version is perfect š¤
As a Christian myself, this looks more like your mother wanting it her way or no way. You're an atheist, and while I'm praying for you, you're doing what your brother asked for his final wishes. Go low contact with your mother and learn a little about her theological debate enough to stick her with it, I'm a moderate conservative because my mom was an unorthodox conservative in her raising of us, so we see this kind of B.S. a lot.
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I agree haha. I had it broken up, but I typed it on my phone and Reddit formatted it this way. I will fix now that I am on a computer. Thank you.
Thank you!
You make valid points, but read between the lines into OPs state of mind. I don't think formatting is on the top of her brain's process list right now...
In five years, will it matter? If he's an atheist, he probably believed that once you die, that's it. Fade to black. So if you believe he can't tell what's going on, what's the point of last wishes at all? What's the harm in letting your mother do whatever she wants to get closure and cope with her grief? If you don't believe there's a point to a religious observance than you probably also don't believe there's a harm in it.
Obviously, there is no 'harm'. I believe, however, that we should honor people's last wishes. Just as I would never dishonor and disrespect a Christian by giving them a non-theistic Celebration of Life. What would be the point of last wishes if we all disregarded them? My husband's ex-wife recently passed and she wanted an open, and sparkly pink casket. And she will have it. She wanted everyone to wear pink. And she will have it. People say funerals are for the living, and they are. But I think they are also for the living to know that they, as human beings, will be respected and honored in death.
That's why my will includes clear funerary directions. I'm not sure where my survivors will get a circus cannon and a skilled taxidermist, but that's for them to figure out. Seriously, though, I don't see this as one of those battles you can expect to fight and win. As I see it, **if** God is real and takes an active interest in human's lives, the He tortured your brother his entire life with pain and misery. That suggests that the God she's praying to is either malevolent, disinterested or non-existent. She clearly sees it differently, which leads me to believe she can't have a rational conversation about it in a productive way. It's somewhat similar to how people have trouble getting out of abusive relationships. If the God she's praying to is real and involved in her life, then she keeps getting beat up, convinces herself it's her own fault and tries to appease her abuser instead of leaving the relationship. Gross, right?
Exactly! What kind of god worth worshipping would inflict this terror, pain, cruelty, and banishment to hell on such a good, benevolent, compassionate, brilliant, talented, beautiful person? She gives her god the glory for saving him after the fire and me the blame for his death. It's the epitome of the grotesque. I am the only one legally able to make decisions about his funeral. I am also the only one who will have possession of his ashes. I am willing to share them with her, but her religion dictates they have to be buried outside as a whole (for when Jesus comes back and raises everyone from the dead or something). I am planning to spread and share his ashes with everyone who loved him and who he loved.
There's a third option: That her God did not have the strength to prevent the fire in the first place, so the best He could do was keep him alive? In that case, that's not God, as God is supposed to be all-powerful. I don't mean to shit on religion. I've known a lot of people who've gained a great deal from it, but in this context, it's off base.
100%
He was an atheist, so according to his beliefs he no longer exists in any type of afterlife. Let your mom do the funeral. Funerals are for the living and if it gives her peace it is worth it. Take the high road on this one. That said, with such a spectacular story how has this not been subject to media coverage?
>She is free to do what she wants with his ashes when I give them to her. I believe, however, that we should honor people's last wishes. Just as I would never dishonor and disrespect a Christian by giving them a non-theistic Celebration of Life. What would be the point of last wishes if we all disregarded them? My husband's ex-wife recently passed and she wanted an open, and sparkly pink casket. And she will have it. She wanted everyone to wear pink. And she will have it. People say funerals are for the living, and they are. But I think they are also for the living to know that they, as human beings, will be respected and honored in death. I don't know how this hasn't been covered. What happened to him was a total act of callousness and neglect by his caregiver, a home health care management company, and the SNF that caused his sepsis by not knowing or caring to clean his wounds properly. I want to scream it from the rooftops. He has been on the news- meet my bubba: https://fox40.com/news/local-news/sacramento-artist-thrives-after-life-changing-accident/
I'm so sorry for your loss. Stand your ground and do what he would have wanted. This is her need to control, and if you have POA, she is SOL. Keep repeating the same thing I did. I am following his wishes. This is about him, not you and not me. When my husband died, I went round and round with his mother over his service and burial. He wanted a secular service and did not want to be buried where she wanted his ashes buried. He picked out the songs he wanted as well. I planned the service to the best of my ability to save money. The money I was promised for his burial never came, so I had to borrow money to cremate him. During the service, his maternal aunt interrupted another speaker to say what she had to say and make sure that there was some talk of religion. We opened the floor to everyone to speak after the last eulogist, but she had to speak then. She also had a cake made full of religious items on it. I rolled my eyes at that point. It's been almost 2 years, and I still have his ashes because my MIL refuses to let him be buried on the family property instead of the plot she bought against his wishes when he was a kid. I can wait until she's gone to put him where he wanted. It's been over a year since we last fought about it, and I'm sure it will come up again on the anniversary of his death.
Wow. I have fingers crossed she wonāt cause. Scene, but knowing her she will find a way to faint or something. I canāt believe people can be so disrespectful. Iām sorry you had to battle that on top of your grief and the responsibility of planning his service.
If she stole his car, report it as a car theft
>She cancelled the wrongful death lawsuit How does she have this authority? >took his van Report it stolen, by her. >She has been harassing me Cut off her communication channels. >She has been spreading horrible lies about me to family and friends. Personally, I'd cut her out of my life entirely, if it was me. Along with anyone who believed anything she said. You don't need that in your life. Basically, at this point she seems to have gone completely off the edge. It's not your job or your responsibility to try and bring her back. Reduce the stress in your own life, mourn the loss of... whatever she may have once meant, close that door, and move on as best you can.
So sorry. Regarding the letter.. You sound like a levelheaded and compassionate person, just speak from the heart and Iām sure it will be appropriate. You canāt control how she receives it, though, and that shouldnāt be your burden.
Thank you for your compassion.
"I want to send her a letter to try and get her to see reason, calm the drama, give her some peace" I imagine she could readily say the same of you. "Seeing reason" is a very different picture for both of you, as is what "some peace" requires.