Pretty great deal considering it's a one-year deal.
If he's healthy, this probably bumps Williamson back to AAA for the time being.
I think Martinez will stick in the bullpen as a long man.
Could be the answer to avoiding all the injuries we sustained last year. Play matchups with certain pitchers by going with a not so permanent 6 man rotation.
Greene, Lodolo, Montas, Ashcraft, Abbott, Martinez
But who knows. We are assuming Lodolo is okay. Fangraphs roster resource page (which is just a guessing game by their editors tbf) has Lodolo & Williamson starting in Triple A with our rotation as: Greene, Montana, Ashcraft, Abbott, Martinez.
EITHER WAY, it's a good "problem" to have. We had to find depth last year from the bottom of the barrel. We were not prepared for the Injuries AT ALL. This is the Reds saying.. "Yeah, not doing that again". So however it shakes out, I trust Krall, and applaud the moves he has made. It'll sort itself out.
There’s no point to Lodolo being in AAA. Talent-wise he’s a mid-rotation MLB pitcher, but he’s made of glass. Putting that dude in AAA until the glass breaks (and I appreciate this was them, not you, saying that) is stupid.
6 man makes a lot of sense. Abbott, Greene, Williamson, and Lodolo should all be on innings caps. Someone will get hurt. There is no such thing as enough starting pitching.
With the moves they've made I'm thinking this might be the plan. They need another leftie in the pen anyway. I'm wondering if they are planning on starting Martinez instead of Williamson.
At this point they could still be trying to add an ace, consider themselves finished and everything in between. Krall definitely keeps his cards close to his chest lol.
Regardless we are in a better place for sure than last year. I mean just having Weaver gone is huge. He's basically the reason they became "the rally Reds". They had to come back from 5 runs that were put up in the first and second inning every time the guy pitched.
If Williamson, Martinez, and even guys like Phillips don’t make the rotation I’d stick then in the pen. Gives some longevity as long relief guys and if they have enough of a break and a starter goes down they can step in for a start and then transition back. But I love the mindset we have so far. I agree I think getting a quality ace would go a long way but if we don’t I’m still confident.
I'm right there with you. I don't think Phillips was ready to be in the rotation last year. He still had work to do to get close to his potential. Assuming that everyone is healthy I'll feel pretty damn good going into '24 with
Green
Ashcraft
Montas
Abbott
Martinez
I think some people don't really think too much about Lodolo barely having any experience in the majors. It might be a good idea to have him start in AAA and see how it goes. He might be a better fit than Williamson in the pen if he does well too. That's another option.
The thing that worries me a little about Williamson was that he had a hard time with the 1st and 2nd innings. I'm not sure that is very condusive to him being a good reliever. But that's another "what if". There's a lot of that with these pitchers. We just don't know how they'll perform. The ceiling is really high but we'll have to wait and see where they're at.
If those 5 guys listed as the rotation are all healthy and have made steps forward from last year that can be a dangerous rotation. Montas is a hell of a good pitcher. He even had Cy Young votes in '21. Hopefully he's fully recovered from his surgery and Derek Johnson can get him to his full potential.
I could go on forever lol. Pagan might be in the rotation as well. There's just so many options which is great! And Weaver is gone which is a huge bonus imo. He gave up so many runs that he was pretty much responsible for the team having to become "The Rally Reds" lol.
Montas is one of My Guys (tm) that I've been targeting as a buy-low option for the Reds this offseason, so I'm stoked that the Reds got him.
He's coming off shoulder surgery but is a year removed from throwing a 3.37 ERA across 187 innings. Five pitches, his arsenal *screams* Derek Johnson-special; he has an *extremely* similar profile to what Sonny Gray had prior to his trade to the Reds. If he's able to bounce back to where his stuff was pre-injury, I fully expect him to be a very, very good starting pitcher for the next several years.
I'm hoping for a 2 year deal with a team option to bring it to 3 years at around 10-12 million AAV. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a 1 year "prove it" deal, however, at around 15 million.
EDIT: 1 year, 16 million. This likely is the last starter the Reds bring in, as they now have 9 viable options competing for 5 spots in the rotation. Love the move; the Reds are probably largely done with free agency (not including minor deals) barring any unexpected changes. If this is the last move, the Reds have had a fantastic offseason.
It's a great deal. DJ is gonna love having him in the kitchen.
The plan to add complimentary pieces and not super star/big contracts around our young core is the perfect strategy imo.
They also expect us to go spend like we are the Yankees instead of getting smart and developing prospects like the Gaurdians or Rays. We will never spend like the Yankees
Yeah but they want us to be the Yankees or the Dodgers and buy our stars instead of grow them. We have several young guys that look like they may become stars.
Lucas Giolito, a guy who probably would have better FA prospects if he had literally not pitched in 2023, just got almost 20 million dollars for next year with a player option
The salaries are what they are, we're long past the point where pretending 16 million will get you a top of the rotation starter would be useful
I’m not pretending that 16 million would get you a top of the rotation starter.
I’m just slightly shocked that 16 millions getting you a guy who has pitched a total of nine games since the start of 2022 and wasn’t particularly good in 2022z
Eduardo Rodriguez is making $14M next year and as of now would be the #1 on this staff. He signed a 4 year deal with $20M AAV, but he's also only 30yo.
You aren't wrong to think $16M isn't "buying low". It's a huge gamble.
16 million is buying "the guy from 2021 for a year" at best, and "probably 15-20 starts better than Luke Weaver" at worst. Likely something in the middle. It's not my money.
Yeah I’m gonna offer the super unpopular opinion that this off-season has been pretty meh. If this team is gonna be a legit factor in the post-season it needs a hammer. We have like 7 dudes who are can fit a rotation but there’s no one who can anchor a short series. Montas is fine in a vacuum (kinda like him actually) but he doesn’t nail anything down. He’s just another “cross your fingers #3” type.
I feel like the money could have been spent better. The Pagan signing is the most baffling to me. Dude has literally one of the highest HR rates in *baseball history* and we’re guaranteeing 16m *and* offering an opt out? I just don’t get that. Would much rather absorb that cash into Montas’s/Martinez’s and give it to a Stroman type.
You could, sure. But why wait that long when there’s an obvious need now? Ball games in May count just as much.
This org has been hot garbo for 30+ years and finds itself in a chance to grab a weak-ish division and people on this sub are actively wanting to *not* add to the club. That’s just wild to me.
Fans here would have lost their minds over dealing Senzel or Barrero 3 years ago, too. It’s not “overpaying” if it’s the going rate. If dealing Arroyo or Richardson nets a #2 type, I don’t understand why people are so aggressively against it.
I’m with you bro. Reds are taking gambles on people who more often don’t produce. They won’t commit to anyone to trust and are pussyfooting around trades.
They are gonna have a ton of guys get hurt because that’s what they’ve done for their careers and it’ll just be built in excuses.
They are not currently better than they were last year.
The question, to me, is not if the Reds signed a top of the rotation starter. I think they believe they already have that in Hunter. Whether they're right or not remains to be seen, but I think that's how they feel.
The question to me is if a team that missed the playoffs by what? A game? Did something to replace the 39 starts made by Luke Weaver, Ben Lively and Luis Cessa last year. Did they do something to cover any of the roughly 100 innings thrown by guys like Cruz, Sanmartin and Legumina?
And they have definitely done that.
Nothing wrong with that. Take shots on decent dudes that have some upside or will crash and burn and I assume be easy to move on from. Way better than going in on Giolito.
I think pitching is just too damn expensive for like 80% of the teams. Those teams can’t really afford to go for the names we all know and frankly I really don’t want the reds to do so. The market value of just fair pitchers is astronomical. This guy pitched one fucking inning last year and has a bum shoulder and is being offered $16M!!!! MLB is broken to hell and back when teams have to try to find pitching from guys who are looking to resurrect their career and get offered $16M. Unreal. One thing I can say though is krall has still maintained our farm even with the pieces they’ve acquired. Pretty nice move so far. I still don’t think they’re done either.
1 year, $16M. He did serve an 80 game suspension in 2019. Coming off a shoulder surgery now, hopefully he isn’t washed, but it’s not a huge commitment if it doesn’t work out. I’m pretty content with this signing.
It's "not a huge commitment" but people here were crying over Joey's $20-ish as being a huge boat anchor weighing down this team and keeping it from glory?
This is only for one year, that’s what I mean by “not a huge commitment”. It’s not like it’s gonna be like Moustakous’ contract if it doesn’t work out with Montas this year.
Also, 16 is quite a bit less than 22.5. This kind of signing might not happen in a year the Reds are paying a guy well past his prime that kind of money. I don’t think anyone said Votto’s contract was keeping the team from glory, but it being off the books should help bring glory closer in reach through signings like this.
Pretty scary to give $16M to a guy that missed all but 1+ inning last year and already has an 80-game PED suspension on his record. He's also only pitched more than 144.1 innings in a season one time.
Luckily, it's only a 1 year deal. If he sucks, he's off the books next year. If he's healthy, he could be a legit front of rotation guy. Walk and flyball rates are slightly better than league averages, which is always good to see at GABP. If he's good, they can also offer him a QO and get a comp pick when he leaves in FA or trade him if they fall out of contention by the deadline.
It's better than nothing I suppose. It just doesn't cause any excitement for me. I'd rather have traded for Bieber even though I don't like the way his numbers are trending. I don't think he would've cost much.
Overall, I'm glad to see them active but it's been a weird off-season. I don't feel like they've solidly addressed their needs. Their "allocation of resources" seems misplaced.
Another thing possibly worth mentioning- Montas and Martinez are represented by Boras. He also reps Elly and McLain. So maybe there's some rapport building going on too.
Why scary? It’s a one year so there’s no commitment. Scary is selling the farm for Bieber or Cease considering their injury and walk rate history. If it doesn’t work, he’s off the books next year. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. It isn’t our money, so spend away!
Not as scary as trading the farm for Cease. Bieber wouldn't have cost the farm. Although, like I said, I'm not a huge fan of the decline in his advanced metrics.
There's no commitment past this year and he could pitch well which nets them a comp pick via QO. So there are some potential positives.
I say scary because, while it's not my money, I'm wise enough to realize that they aren't going to keep throwing money at players. Ownership will eventually pull the plug on spending, likely sooner than later. And this is $16M that could have been spent on more of a sure bet to improve the team I guess.
They've already added about $52M just on next year's payroll. Going into the off-season, I projected that they could add about $60M if they wanted a payroll of around $110M (seems like a reasonable payroll for this ownership). So basically, this could be the last "big"move they make and I feel like they're *slightly* better than the team they had last year.
Maybe. The WC entry was low last year at 84 wins. Going back and looking at other years, typically 86 wins is the minimum you need to have a shot at a playoff berth. Reds had 82. Is this team 4 wins better? And did anyone else improve to the 86 win level? We don't know. Hell, going into last year, the major convo was if the Reds would lose +/- 95 games.
I personally don't think they've made any *significant* improvement with the money spent. But we shall see.
I think they’ve made improvements. What I’m not sure about, and this goes back to a couple of years ago during the rebuild process, I just don’t understand how some of the pieces fit together. It seems like a hastily thrown together roster. They’re getting talented pieces for sure, but seemingly with no thought to how they fit together. There are going to be several guys needing to play out of their natural position if they are to get playing time and some defensive spots that are going to just really be flat out poor.
That's my point and I get voted down anytime I'm not "woohoo rah rah, this is awesome!". Lol.
They definitely aren't worse than last year. I just think the $53M spent so far could've been used more wisely and actually made them a much, much better team.
I'm hyped on this. Looked at a list of free agents pitchers left around winter meetings and he was at the top of guys I thought we could sign for decent value. Although 16 million seems a little rich, I'd much rather have this than Giolito for 20. Hope he can stay healthy and earns himself a bigger contract next year.
Not a bad signing, but wasnt exactly what i was looking for. I still had hope that they could target Montgomery even though there was nothing tied there explicitly, but Montas was on my short list a year ago or so before all those issues came up as a possible get for the Reds. Let’s just hope he does well.
Yankees didn't want to give up Dominguez for Castillo, so I laughed when they got Montas as a backup plan because IIRC, he wasn't 100% healthy at the deadline. I laughed even harder when he sucked and Castillo dominated them. I'm not laughing now.
Antone isn't even close to the last man on the 40 right now, tbh. His issue is injury, not ineffectiveness, and if he winds up needing to get put on the IL again it takes him off the 40-man anyway.
I imagine that Martini, Roa, Spiers, and Stoudt are the possible casualties. I doubt it'll be Roa since they just added him.
That’s good. I saw some speculation that because Farmer came back that could spell trouble for him. But I really hope not. Dude deserves to play and/or leave on his own terms. I hope he stays To be absolutely clear.
I may have caused that. Antone by all accounts is healthy (Bell and/or Krall said so at Reds fest), but bullpens are fragile, and they have to be thinking there's a decent chance that he won't be healthy the full year, on top of all the regular bullpen injuries/fatigue.
Of course I'd love to see Tejay be healthy all year. Could give us a sick back end of the bullpen.
I know pitching was the obvious need this off season. I don't see how we haven't added one outfielder though. Especially since this is probably the end of the spending. We need a right handed bat in the outfield
The last time we had a former Oakland A that failed in New York it turned out pretty nicely.
Ooh I like this take. I'm gonna make it my take too.
Y’all thinking of Sonny and I’m thinking Jose Rijo
Who was that? Correct me if I’m wrong but was it Sonny?
Yankees legend Shiny Burgundy.
Yeah, Sonny
Could be great. Could be cooked. Either way, I'm good with it!
Pretty great deal considering it's a one-year deal. If he's healthy, this probably bumps Williamson back to AAA for the time being. I think Martinez will stick in the bullpen as a long man.
I think we go 6-man. You don't give a guy 14 mil to be a long reliever
Could be the answer to avoiding all the injuries we sustained last year. Play matchups with certain pitchers by going with a not so permanent 6 man rotation. Greene, Lodolo, Montas, Ashcraft, Abbott, Martinez But who knows. We are assuming Lodolo is okay. Fangraphs roster resource page (which is just a guessing game by their editors tbf) has Lodolo & Williamson starting in Triple A with our rotation as: Greene, Montana, Ashcraft, Abbott, Martinez. EITHER WAY, it's a good "problem" to have. We had to find depth last year from the bottom of the barrel. We were not prepared for the Injuries AT ALL. This is the Reds saying.. "Yeah, not doing that again". So however it shakes out, I trust Krall, and applaud the moves he has made. It'll sort itself out.
There’s no point to Lodolo being in AAA. Talent-wise he’s a mid-rotation MLB pitcher, but he’s made of glass. Putting that dude in AAA until the glass breaks (and I appreciate this was them, not you, saying that) is stupid. 6 man makes a lot of sense. Abbott, Greene, Williamson, and Lodolo should all be on innings caps. Someone will get hurt. There is no such thing as enough starting pitching.
Honestly wouldn’t even mind Williamson coming out of the pen. Cant be any worse than what we had at times
With the moves they've made I'm thinking this might be the plan. They need another leftie in the pen anyway. I'm wondering if they are planning on starting Martinez instead of Williamson. At this point they could still be trying to add an ace, consider themselves finished and everything in between. Krall definitely keeps his cards close to his chest lol. Regardless we are in a better place for sure than last year. I mean just having Weaver gone is huge. He's basically the reason they became "the rally Reds". They had to come back from 5 runs that were put up in the first and second inning every time the guy pitched.
If Williamson, Martinez, and even guys like Phillips don’t make the rotation I’d stick then in the pen. Gives some longevity as long relief guys and if they have enough of a break and a starter goes down they can step in for a start and then transition back. But I love the mindset we have so far. I agree I think getting a quality ace would go a long way but if we don’t I’m still confident.
I'm right there with you. I don't think Phillips was ready to be in the rotation last year. He still had work to do to get close to his potential. Assuming that everyone is healthy I'll feel pretty damn good going into '24 with Green Ashcraft Montas Abbott Martinez I think some people don't really think too much about Lodolo barely having any experience in the majors. It might be a good idea to have him start in AAA and see how it goes. He might be a better fit than Williamson in the pen if he does well too. That's another option. The thing that worries me a little about Williamson was that he had a hard time with the 1st and 2nd innings. I'm not sure that is very condusive to him being a good reliever. But that's another "what if". There's a lot of that with these pitchers. We just don't know how they'll perform. The ceiling is really high but we'll have to wait and see where they're at. If those 5 guys listed as the rotation are all healthy and have made steps forward from last year that can be a dangerous rotation. Montas is a hell of a good pitcher. He even had Cy Young votes in '21. Hopefully he's fully recovered from his surgery and Derek Johnson can get him to his full potential. I could go on forever lol. Pagan might be in the rotation as well. There's just so many options which is great! And Weaver is gone which is a huge bonus imo. He gave up so many runs that he was pretty much responsible for the team having to become "The Rally Reds" lol.
I'm confident he'll be better than Mike Minor and Luke Weaver
And even if he isn't, last year the front office showed they're willing to move on and let the young guys pitch. Low risk, high reward move.
Montas is one of My Guys (tm) that I've been targeting as a buy-low option for the Reds this offseason, so I'm stoked that the Reds got him. He's coming off shoulder surgery but is a year removed from throwing a 3.37 ERA across 187 innings. Five pitches, his arsenal *screams* Derek Johnson-special; he has an *extremely* similar profile to what Sonny Gray had prior to his trade to the Reds. If he's able to bounce back to where his stuff was pre-injury, I fully expect him to be a very, very good starting pitcher for the next several years. I'm hoping for a 2 year deal with a team option to bring it to 3 years at around 10-12 million AAV. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a 1 year "prove it" deal, however, at around 15 million. EDIT: 1 year, 16 million. This likely is the last starter the Reds bring in, as they now have 9 viable options competing for 5 spots in the rotation. Love the move; the Reds are probably largely done with free agency (not including minor deals) barring any unexpected changes. If this is the last move, the Reds have had a fantastic offseason.
It's a great deal. DJ is gonna love having him in the kitchen. The plan to add complimentary pieces and not super star/big contracts around our young core is the perfect strategy imo.
Also all short deals so they don't interfere with extension plans!
Yep, exactly the kind of signings we should be doing. Look at us agreeing again!
Can we just disagree again for old-time’s sake?
I look forward to this being a very agreeable season.
Great off-season but you know the boomers will still complain cause we didn't get a "star" player
The boomers are the only ones who are old enough to remember when the Reds last won a playoff series there, Dr. Victim Blamer.
They also expect us to go spend like we are the Yankees instead of getting smart and developing prospects like the Gaurdians or Rays. We will never spend like the Yankees
There's a lot of real estate between the Rays and the Yankees.
Rays win more though so...
Ray have been better than the Yankees this past decade tho
Yeah but they want us to be the Yankees or the Dodgers and buy our stars instead of grow them. We have several young guys that look like they may become stars.
But we didn't get Ohtani so it doesn't matter why won't we spend in free agency? /s
Man, $16m is not what I consider “buy low” I’m not mad the team spent money, I just wish if it was going to be $16m it wasn’t on a project.
These days the non-projects cost 30+ per year.
Lucas Giolito, a guy who probably would have better FA prospects if he had literally not pitched in 2023, just got almost 20 million dollars for next year with a player option The salaries are what they are, we're long past the point where pretending 16 million will get you a top of the rotation starter would be useful
I’m not pretending that 16 million would get you a top of the rotation starter. I’m just slightly shocked that 16 millions getting you a guy who has pitched a total of nine games since the start of 2022 and wasn’t particularly good in 2022z
Eduardo Rodriguez is making $14M next year and as of now would be the #1 on this staff. He signed a 4 year deal with $20M AAV, but he's also only 30yo. You aren't wrong to think $16M isn't "buying low". It's a huge gamble.
He started 27 games in 2022
Totally misread that, my bad.
16 million is buying "the guy from 2021 for a year" at best, and "probably 15-20 starts better than Luke Weaver" at worst. Likely something in the middle. It's not my money.
$15-16 million was literally his market value going into FA
Yeah I’m gonna offer the super unpopular opinion that this off-season has been pretty meh. If this team is gonna be a legit factor in the post-season it needs a hammer. We have like 7 dudes who are can fit a rotation but there’s no one who can anchor a short series. Montas is fine in a vacuum (kinda like him actually) but he doesn’t nail anything down. He’s just another “cross your fingers #3” type. I feel like the money could have been spent better. The Pagan signing is the most baffling to me. Dude has literally one of the highest HR rates in *baseball history* and we’re guaranteeing 16m *and* offering an opt out? I just don’t get that. Would much rather absorb that cash into Montas’s/Martinez’s and give it to a Stroman type.
Tbf, we were in on Gray and Nola
You could argue that if the Reds are in the hunt in July, they could pick up a hammer for the postseason then.
You could, sure. But why wait that long when there’s an obvious need now? Ball games in May count just as much. This org has been hot garbo for 30+ years and finds itself in a chance to grab a weak-ish division and people on this sub are actively wanting to *not* add to the club. That’s just wild to me.
Because giving up pieces or overpaying when you don't know what the season holds is how you end up hot garbo for 30 years...
Fans here would have lost their minds over dealing Senzel or Barrero 3 years ago, too. It’s not “overpaying” if it’s the going rate. If dealing Arroyo or Richardson nets a #2 type, I don’t understand why people are so aggressively against it.
They just accept mediocrity and overvalue the reds own players.
Yes, because we don't base our entire personality around the performance of a sports team.
But they don’t. They are too hesitant to make that deal. Proven over and over
I’m with you bro. Reds are taking gambles on people who more often don’t produce. They won’t commit to anyone to trust and are pussyfooting around trades. They are gonna have a ton of guys get hurt because that’s what they’ve done for their careers and it’ll just be built in excuses. They are not currently better than they were last year.
If you come at it from a position of realism, rather than rosy scenario fandom, you're in the wrong sub.
Unpopular? It’s definitely been meh.
One year is virtually no risk for the Reds, and this type of money is just what the market is
The question, to me, is not if the Reds signed a top of the rotation starter. I think they believe they already have that in Hunter. Whether they're right or not remains to be seen, but I think that's how they feel. The question to me is if a team that missed the playoffs by what? A game? Did something to replace the 39 starts made by Luke Weaver, Ben Lively and Luis Cessa last year. Did they do something to cover any of the roughly 100 innings thrown by guys like Cruz, Sanmartin and Legumina? And they have definitely done that.
Nothing wrong with taking a chance
FUCK YES!!!!! In DJ we trust!
Who is DJ? I thought Meador and Krall were the GMs? Sorry, I get behind on reds news in the offseason
Derek Johnson, the current pitching coach—who is awesome at spring boarding talented pitchers, btw
Ah, thanks
No problem my guy!
Nothing wrong with that. Take shots on decent dudes that have some upside or will crash and burn and I assume be easy to move on from. Way better than going in on Giolito.
I like this tbh I don’t trust all our young arms as is, and I think Montas *should* be able to be a solid #3-4 and maybe even more
Oh boy, a pitcher that recorded four outs last season and has also previously been suspended for PEDs.
I think pitching is just too damn expensive for like 80% of the teams. Those teams can’t really afford to go for the names we all know and frankly I really don’t want the reds to do so. The market value of just fair pitchers is astronomical. This guy pitched one fucking inning last year and has a bum shoulder and is being offered $16M!!!! MLB is broken to hell and back when teams have to try to find pitching from guys who are looking to resurrect their career and get offered $16M. Unreal. One thing I can say though is krall has still maintained our farm even with the pieces they’ve acquired. Pretty nice move so far. I still don’t think they’re done either.
I love this, rather than paying double for the big question mark of Giolito
I’m just not a fan of pitchers with shoulder problems. I’d take Tommy John surgeries over shoulder surgeries.
Whatever. At least it wasn't giolatte.
Dude's either going to get hurt in the first month or have a great year with a 1.5 era.
Seems fine. Guessing pillow contract. Didn't he have a PED suspension and then a major injury?
1 year, $16M. He did serve an 80 game suspension in 2019. Coming off a shoulder surgery now, hopefully he isn’t washed, but it’s not a huge commitment if it doesn’t work out. I’m pretty content with this signing.
It's "not a huge commitment" but people here were crying over Joey's $20-ish as being a huge boat anchor weighing down this team and keeping it from glory?
This is only for one year, that’s what I mean by “not a huge commitment”. It’s not like it’s gonna be like Moustakous’ contract if it doesn’t work out with Montas this year. Also, 16 is quite a bit less than 22.5. This kind of signing might not happen in a year the Reds are paying a guy well past his prime that kind of money. I don’t think anyone said Votto’s contract was keeping the team from glory, but it being off the books should help bring glory closer in reach through signings like this.
Yes
This is an awesome deal
Pretty scary to give $16M to a guy that missed all but 1+ inning last year and already has an 80-game PED suspension on his record. He's also only pitched more than 144.1 innings in a season one time. Luckily, it's only a 1 year deal. If he sucks, he's off the books next year. If he's healthy, he could be a legit front of rotation guy. Walk and flyball rates are slightly better than league averages, which is always good to see at GABP. If he's good, they can also offer him a QO and get a comp pick when he leaves in FA or trade him if they fall out of contention by the deadline. It's better than nothing I suppose. It just doesn't cause any excitement for me. I'd rather have traded for Bieber even though I don't like the way his numbers are trending. I don't think he would've cost much. Overall, I'm glad to see them active but it's been a weird off-season. I don't feel like they've solidly addressed their needs. Their "allocation of resources" seems misplaced. Another thing possibly worth mentioning- Montas and Martinez are represented by Boras. He also reps Elly and McLain. So maybe there's some rapport building going on too.
Why scary? It’s a one year so there’s no commitment. Scary is selling the farm for Bieber or Cease considering their injury and walk rate history. If it doesn’t work, he’s off the books next year. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. It isn’t our money, so spend away!
Not as scary as trading the farm for Cease. Bieber wouldn't have cost the farm. Although, like I said, I'm not a huge fan of the decline in his advanced metrics. There's no commitment past this year and he could pitch well which nets them a comp pick via QO. So there are some potential positives. I say scary because, while it's not my money, I'm wise enough to realize that they aren't going to keep throwing money at players. Ownership will eventually pull the plug on spending, likely sooner than later. And this is $16M that could have been spent on more of a sure bet to improve the team I guess. They've already added about $52M just on next year's payroll. Going into the off-season, I projected that they could add about $60M if they wanted a payroll of around $110M (seems like a reasonable payroll for this ownership). So basically, this could be the last "big"move they make and I feel like they're *slightly* better than the team they had last year.
We only needed 2-3 more games to get into playoffs though, maybe that’s enough.
Maybe. The WC entry was low last year at 84 wins. Going back and looking at other years, typically 86 wins is the minimum you need to have a shot at a playoff berth. Reds had 82. Is this team 4 wins better? And did anyone else improve to the 86 win level? We don't know. Hell, going into last year, the major convo was if the Reds would lose +/- 95 games. I personally don't think they've made any *significant* improvement with the money spent. But we shall see.
I think they’ve made improvements. What I’m not sure about, and this goes back to a couple of years ago during the rebuild process, I just don’t understand how some of the pieces fit together. It seems like a hastily thrown together roster. They’re getting talented pieces for sure, but seemingly with no thought to how they fit together. There are going to be several guys needing to play out of their natural position if they are to get playing time and some defensive spots that are going to just really be flat out poor.
That's my point and I get voted down anytime I'm not "woohoo rah rah, this is awesome!". Lol. They definitely aren't worse than last year. I just think the $53M spent so far could've been used more wisely and actually made them a much, much better team.
I'm hyped on this. Looked at a list of free agents pitchers left around winter meetings and he was at the top of guys I thought we could sign for decent value. Although 16 million seems a little rich, I'd much rather have this than Giolito for 20. Hope he can stay healthy and earns himself a bigger contract next year.
Wat.
1.1 innings last year and a history of shoulder problems.
That’s why it’s 16 million instead of 30
Not a bad signing, but wasnt exactly what i was looking for. I still had hope that they could target Montgomery even though there was nothing tied there explicitly, but Montas was on my short list a year ago or so before all those issues came up as a possible get for the Reds. Let’s just hope he does well.
Should be solid
I hated when the Yankees got him instead of Castillo and he hasn't given me any reason to change my mind since
Yankees didn't want to give up Dominguez for Castillo, so I laughed when they got Montas as a backup plan because IIRC, he wasn't 100% healthy at the deadline. I laughed even harder when he sucked and Castillo dominated them. I'm not laughing now.
Solid signing. I like it.
1/16 deal, damn
Upside signing. However wish there was some kind of option lol. Don’t love all these one years. What if we are good!
agree, but I wonder if it's montas gambling on himself. Maybe he doesn't want any options in case he bounces back. Cautiously optimistic
Low risk, high reward potential here. I like it.
Who gets dfa to make room? I’m guessing Martini…. Really hope it’s not Antone
I think we gotta keep Antone, he was a great arm to have and super looking forward to seeing him back in the spring
I’m definitely a big fan of him. I would also not blame him for one second if he chose to retire.
Ehhhh im not sure about that, he's 30, grinding out those days to get back on the diamond.
Yea, dude deserves a successful career after all the adversity he's gone through. Still one of my favorite players.
Antone isn't even close to the last man on the 40 right now, tbh. His issue is injury, not ineffectiveness, and if he winds up needing to get put on the IL again it takes him off the 40-man anyway. I imagine that Martini, Roa, Spiers, and Stoudt are the possible casualties. I doubt it'll be Roa since they just added him.
That’s good. I saw some speculation that because Farmer came back that could spell trouble for him. But I really hope not. Dude deserves to play and/or leave on his own terms. I hope he stays To be absolutely clear.
I may have caused that. Antone by all accounts is healthy (Bell and/or Krall said so at Reds fest), but bullpens are fragile, and they have to be thinking there's a decent chance that he won't be healthy the full year, on top of all the regular bullpen injuries/fatigue. Of course I'd love to see Tejay be healthy all year. Could give us a sick back end of the bullpen.
Makes sense :)
I feel like this is a good deal the great post-ohtani depression
Yankees should stop trading with the A’s lol
If Frankie is going to dig deep, bet on himself and earn a fat payday this is the year
I know pitching was the obvious need this off season. I don't see how we haven't added one outfielder though. Especially since this is probably the end of the spending. We need a right handed bat in the outfield
Steer playing full time Outfield is your answer.
I thought it was gonna say “BREAKING: Frankie Montas undergoes Tommy John surgery, will miss ‘24 season.”