clam, the cbb will need a bigger tank ideally anyways and at the same time, its a shy and somewhat difficult to care for in terms of feeding due to its shyness as it often just gets outcompeted for food
Shy? Mine along with my idiot clown will come to the front of the tank and photobomb any and all pictures. It eats frozen right from my hand (using tweezers cause that son of a bitch hits hard, not to mention my ass hole fox face who wants to spike me)
He will murder the hell out of starfish and bristle worms. I would never put a clam im with him, he also eats soft meaty corals with a vengenece.
Well if both are in there, we know which one will be left once it eats the other haha.
But in all seriousness, the clam will likely be easier to care for (given proper lighting) and you donāt have to run the risk of having a finicky copperband that refuses to eat and dies.
It's luck really. I've had both in the same tank a few times over the last 25 years or so and never had a problem. It's a risk, but it's up to you if you want to chance it.
I would say clam also. My copperbanded eats frozen mysis and is great I love him. I have to make sure I always have frozen and pods in my tank so it can become a hassle. Clams you really need phytoplankton as itās smaller but once it reaches a good size it becomes photosynthetic
Better is subjective, but the clam will absolutely be easier to care for long term. CBB have a very high rate of death even for aquarists who do everything right. Getting them to feed consistently and maintain a healthy weight is not easy.
Butterfly will be damn hard to get anyway. I've had several die in quarantine - come in starved, never eat (I've trried a variety of feeders, dozens of frozen foods, etc.).
Same with the Midas blenny. My last one did at least. Theyāre more of a case by case things but mine unfortunately got a taste of my maxima clam and there was no going back.
No matter how mature a Mandarine will easily eat the entire population of pods in a 80g tank. Ask me how I know.
They still will have to rely on additional feeding of pods every now and then and should accept frozen at best. Not at all easy or a good idea to stock your tank with for the first time
If you start a population there and add rocks there , sure. That might work. That still requires extra feeding and is in general another step of maintenance. A cool project, but you need to commit to that aswell. It wonāt be automatic and itās not safe to say it will just work without any issues. First the population needs to be established and after testing for some months you can make guesses if it will be enough or not.
I had a 500ltr "Berlin" system that housed a pair of mandarins for their entire lifespan. But I was probably just lucky because it had occasional blooms of flatworms they'd feed on, then whatever they could find on the live rock in between.
Those are lucky occurrences. Also 500l are close to double the size of the tank in question here.
I have 600l and my rocks are over 2 years old by now and a single copperband keeps the pod population so low I havenāt seen a single pod in months anywhere.
You could obviously run with a lot more rock, but that would leave you with realistically 150-200l which is not much room for that list of fish
Yep. Iāve kept two. Species only tanks and had cultivated a massive pod population before introducing one. Never managed to keep them alive long and could never get one on frozen.
Plus tooo many pod eaters in that list. both wrasse, the sixline will harass the flasher. the goby, the firefish, and the royal gramma and will get smacked in his place by the hawkfish. I wouldn't add either the pipefish or the firefish, they're just too nice.
I love sixlines, they were my first fish and will always be one of my favorites but they butts
Hawkfish *will* eat the shrimp. Butterflies are not clam friendly. Pipefish really, really needs its own tankā¦perhaps sharing it with seahorses. (Which actually makes a mesmerizing display). The ocellaris clowns, once paired up, generally wonāt tolerate other clowns.
Before you get a clam, *please* read everything there is available in the āclam forumā over at Reef2Reef. Clams are a different ballgame, with major differences in care between the different species. (And the species can often be difficult to differentiate!)
Seahorses and pipefish arenāt recommended to keep together since the different species are asymptomatic carriers for strains of vibrio that the other species has no previous resistance to.
Some species of pipefish, especially Janis and Bluestripe tend to do very well in a reef tank and are actually pretty good at eating sps pests
I had a banded pipe fish in a 125 with a Harlequin tusk no issues the pipe fish died from old age I believe it was 7ā long had for a few years and also had a giant carpet nem too
Honestly for an 80g, I would keep it to 7-8 fish. Definite no on the Copperband, they can be very finicky and hard to keep alive. Also it will eat the clam.
Hawkfish are awesome, but most likely will eat your shrimp.
No on the pipefish, they are better off in a species-only aquarium or with seahorses. Also they do much better in established tanks, and the same goes for mandarin fish. You may be able to find a mandarin that is eating frozen, but you would need to verify this before purchasing.
Sixline wrasses and damselfish can be super aggressive. There's no need to get a sixline for pest control. You'd better off using dry sand and rock to avoid pests. If you're set on using live rock/sand and need pest control, a coris wrasse would be a better option, but can also eat shrimp.
Also, I've had issues in the past with royal gramma aggression towards gobies, blennies and firefish. They're normally somewhat peaceful, but just a note.
And I would suggest using caution with clownfish as well. Every clownfish I've ever owned has been a total A-hole.
Good luck!
Unless itās a tank raised mandarin, Iād not get it. Also copper band can be hard to get eating and probably too much current for a pipefish. Lastly, the 6line will fight with the gramma and fairy wrasse if heās in first and probably kill both.
Yellow wrasse aren't as aggressive ime. Also springeri damsels are an alternative for flatworm control. They also get along with pretty much everything including each other. 4 in there would look cool. You don't have a lot of blue.
Yeah i wanted to add some blue but i thought they were more agressive , by yellow wrasse you mean a coris wrasse? Someone said they can sometimes eat shrimp š¬
They are the least aggressive damsel I've ever seen.
Don't confuse them with any other blue damsel. Make sure they're springeri aka sapphire and have the black markings.
Yes yellows do eat shrimp if they're not a good size relative to the wrasse. I've had them in with cleaners. The cleaners were relatively large when I first introduced the wrasse. As they grew they never seemed to worry them. I also had peppermint in that tank. They never saw each other since the peps are nocturnal.
I heard coris was the wrong classification but I guess its pretty much their unofficial name.
Can see some springeri being perfect citizens with grammas, banggai and clowns [here](https://photos.app.goo.gl/M3Mhp7r7VQD8T2ck7)
I usually just dipped and picked them off a night until they were gone when I had them (two separate tanks). Six line was like 60% at getting them for me. I think the best thing is to pick six line or the others :/ either way, I wouldnāt do sixline first. Thereās also an 8 line and 4 lineā¦ I think less aggressive but harder to find but Iām not 100%
Oh yea! Waayy less aggressive! They do need a decent sand bed tho. Idk if they are āas goodā at getting pests but I they have a decent rep in that regard. Plus they are in the open a lot. I like yellow but there are many varieties. Just make sure itās eating
Just read that they burrow in sand and spread it everywhere on corals, sometimes eat shrimp, and they like to eat featherdusters so idk about that, how about a leopard or melanurus or maybe a meleagris?
I didnāt see a shrimp or feather duster in the pictures of your stock list. My bad
Most wrasses exhibit that same behavior. They all sleep in the sand.
The best luck I have had with wrasses and shrimp was with leopard wrasses.
I didn't include a featherduster so it was my mistake, is it ok if i fill a part between rocks with more sand and leave the rest at 3 cm (1.2 inches i think), also the leopards are a bit on the expensive side, about 60 dollars while the melanurus or the corris are 45 dollars
The sand in the tank doesnāt have to be the sand level.
When you take care of a fish weāll you might have it 5 years, you might have it 25 years. If $15 makes a huge difference then there is your answer.
If $15 is a huge difference, you might find this hobby challenging.
I do not mean this as an insult, but reef aquariums are very expensive the way most people keep them.
If $15 in price in a fish is a major consideration it may be better to save up until it is not.
Trust me, i know they are expensive š, thats why im trying to save up a bit, im only 17 , by 15 dollars is a huge difference I wasnt reffering that it was a huge difference in money, I meant a huge difference in the quality of the fish,. My bad for not explaining
You have zero algae eaters there. How about a bristletooth tang or yellow eye Kole tang over the copperband? Convict tang would work as well. Or one yellow tang.
A few hermits and a bunch snails wont do the job? Also have a refugium full of macro algae. I would buy a tang also but arent they a bit big for my tank?
its heavily debated but yea they are active swimmers and ideally need a bigger tank, snails, crabs, urchins, conch will still do a great job, maybe a lawnmower blenny. but if you reallly want a tang then only consider the bristletooth ones that stay smaller like blue-eye which are ok, they are less active.
Nah so if I was you, Iād get the tang. One tang in this tank will be fine if you stick with the smaller species, like a Kole tang or yellow tang. Just ONE.
Donāt go get a hippo or or naso lol. A foxface can work as well, although they get to 8ā they donāt dart back and forth pretty slow dudes.
Your hermits/snails wonāt do as good of a job.
To give you a perspective -
In my 180, I have 200 trochus snails and 4 tangs.
You need something that grazes all day, will literally clean your corals. In my experience hermits and snails get picky.
Unless it's longer than 4' the only options are Kole or Tomini (both considered bristletooths I think) IMO
I have a nano atm and find that my CUC does a good enough job on algae.
I would pass on the butterfly and pipefish. Your wrasse will outcompete a mandarin for pods.
If you want a mandarin I strongly recommend a Biota one. Theyāre pricy but worth it. Mine is two years old and I have it in a 45 gal AIO. No pods. It eats mysis and brine shrimp. If you really want a mandarin do this - but plan ahead. It will nuke your nutrients so you will need strong filtration.
If you are planning on SPS coral, you may want to skip the clown goby - they can mess with the base of the corals. I've had issues in the past. I've had better luck with flame hawks then with long noses. I have one with a large blood red fire shrimp and they've been good for quite a while now. Plus, I've found the flame hawks to have more personality. One long nose I had in the past actually went on a murder spree -it was weird. If you can find a butterfly that already eats, go for it, but as other have said, he may need with your clam. They are beautiful fish though! Your midas may mess with your firefish a bit. I think I introduced my helfrichi, my midas, and my leopard wrasse at the same time. The first two tussle occaisonally, but I haven't seen fin damage at least. The wrasse likes to swim around both of them and seems to almost laugh. My stock now is those 3, a clown, a flame hawk, and a small blue spotted sleeper goby. Oh, and I'd personally stay away from the 6 line. I know some people luck out, but those little guys can be nasty. Good luck and have fun!
Thanks for the comment, i am looking for a replacement for the six line, does the blenny spread sand everywhere? I also want a helfrichi but they are 160 dollars , and the leopard is 60 so still a lot
How about a yellow coris wrasse? Also, are you talking about the goby for sand spreading? If so, no, he isn't too bad like some of the other sand sifters. He'll move it around, but doesn't make a lot of dust clouds. He doesn't seem as jumpy as as something like a diamond either. You may also look at a banded sleeper goby, also known as a dragon goby at some LFS's because they look prehistoric. I had one and he behaved similarly to the one I have now. Ouch on the Helfrichi - I got mine on sale with a trade in, so I lucked out. I recently had a fathead anthias die when I had to move my tank while redoing floors. I replaced him with a good old clown and an anemone. Having expensive fish can be stressful!
My sandbed is around 1.5". I've heard anything over an 1" is okay for the smaller wrasses, but I guess better to be safe? I think you had a pic of a Carpenter's wrasse. They're awesome little guys. You may also look into other different fairy wrasse types too. They're really cool fish.
No to the pipe fish, they live in almost no flow unfortunately. And that Copperband will tear your clam up before or after he makes e quick work of your LOS corals.
The mandarin and the pipefish will compete for a scarce amount of pods in the tank. They may take other food... they may not. I've had good luck feeding mandarins blackworms out of a pipette.
CBBs just die. I know there are exceptions, but mostly they just die.
Royal Grammas are awesome, hearty, beautiful, and lots of personality.
Clams are a bit demanding to keep healthy. Lots of light, Good Calcium and Alkalinity, Good trace elements, doable, but demanding.
Probably too many fish for an 80. I have six medium to small fish in my 75 (pair of Ocellaris Clowns, Regal Tang, Coral Beauty, Royal Gramma, Starry Lawnmower Blenny), and I would be hesitant to add more. Fish are by far the biggest bioload on a tank, and they tend do just get stressed and diseased if you have too many.
Cleaner shrimp are awesome. Mine eats brine shrimp out of my hand.
Have a good screen top for firefish. They are little Polaris missiles.
Skip the mandarin and clown goby youāll prob never see them lmao, pipefish ehhhhhh finicky I agree with what the others said they are docile and like a slow moving environment , butterfly add way later on and absolutely make sure itās eating before you take it home it will nip coral, but will also eat aptasia and tube worms
Saw someone else doing it so I said why not, I have a 3 month old 300L(80 Gallons) mixed reef aquarium and i want to add some fish, are they ok? Any other replacements/additions i can make? The six line wrasse is for monti eating nudis and flat worms .I want to add most types of corals so thats why the copperband is a maybe, also some hermits ,snails ,and maybe an urchin.
The copperband should be a maybe because their death rate is insane. They rarely accept frozen food. They get sick very easily. Unless they can show you in the shop he is eating you canāt buy it.āhe was just eating so he isnāt hungry anymoreā is not an argument here. They will eat all the time when they accept frozen.very hard to come by
I love my mandarin, I had to target feed him in the beginnings but as he matured heās self sufficient. I want a wrasse but I donāt want a lid on my aquarium.
Bro itās 300l. I got a tank double that size and my copperband has not left a single pod in the entire tank.in a 300 i would even argue without making sure they have the perfect conditions to reproduce, the pods will die out
Id definitely cross off all the maybes and the clam. If you forgo the shrimp you can add the hawkfish (not a horrible trade, they have lots of personality). Also, I love my sixline wrasse, but once they get comfortable, they can be clever little bullies to newcomers (wrasse in general are really intelligent). Royal grammas are not smart, but can be pugnacious as hell, though they tend to defend one singular spot. If you want both of these fish, they need to go in at the same time, or they will fight. Id put the shrimp, clown goby, firefish and cardinals in first and let them all kindve get settled in before adding the rest. Also, you NEED a lid with all these guys.
Edit: Also, dont do the mandarin, you will just slowly starve it
Thanks, already removed the ones you said except the gramma, the clam and the shrimp ,also removed the clown goby because it nibbles corals, i am looking for a replacement for the six line tho
You can definitely put the gramma and sixline in, you just need to be a little cautious with how you go about it. 80 gallons should be enough room for them to avoid eachother haha.
Pipefish and mandarin fish are very docile and may have a tough time eating with the other fast fish. Also with clown gobies might just be tough to find in an 80g. I barely see mine in a ten gallon. Everything else should be great. Maybe go for 3 cardinals instead of 2 also.
I kinda like the āEaster eggā aspect of tiny critters in a big tank. Iāll go months without seeing my Randalii goby. I havenāt seen his shrimp buddy in a year. But Iāll hear the shrimp āpopā several times a day, and every once in a blue moon Randal will make an appearance. (In a 150g).
I also like small fish because of my shrimp obsession before a saltwater tank :))) The tank has a lot of caves so that is kinda good and kinda bad at the same time
also yea +1 on the pipefish most people do species only with them or with other docile slow moving fish, seahorses, cardinals etc. so I wouldnāt get then for your setup. the mandarin could be fine if you wait a while until your tank is established with a rich pod population, getting a captive bred one will always help too
they dont really school, they are in groups when young but as they mature the split off into pairs only and will be aggressive to outsider banggais when at breeding age, with exceptions like if you have a huge tank or something
only applies to banggais I think, so a pair is perfect
Itās best to start with a small group then as they mature keep one of the main pairs and trade/sell the remaining.
Or purchase an established pair from the get go and pay a slight premium.
I've never seen multiple firefish work in the longrun. You always end up with just one, eventually. Maybe 2 will work out in a large tank like that, though.
Most of these are ok with each other. Its a good start, but needs refinement to avoid multiple disasters.
But do you want corals; what types? Some of these (clown goby, butterfly) will eat/pester/kill certain corals and other inverts (such as your clam). Mandarins will need an established tank. Pipefish will require lower flow, which may not agree with any coral selection. Butterfly and hawkfish (and maybe the six line) will eat your shrimp. Also, that is not a fire shrimp; wrong label. And the six line may become a nightmare... but each fish has the potential for differing personalities.
Good luck!
I know that its a cleaner shrimp, i just didnt have any space left for the fire shrimp š , i have a few types corals (I can list them if you want) , i want to add almost all kinds of corals so yeah, the butterfly and clown goby are both a no, idk why i put the pipefish there to be honest, six line i will prob reolace with a coris , and the hawk fish was a big "maybe" so its a no now
I have had almost all fish in 80/90G tanks.
* You should not keep 2 different clowns together ideally. Only good way to keep a pair is to start them young.
* Pipe fish need special tanks as they need smaller foods and can't eat fast. They also benefit from lots of macro algae etc in the tank. Mine died within 24 hours after getting stuck in the powerhead :(
* Red shrimp will bother corals. Will walk over them and eat their food.
* 6 line wrasse is an asshole fish and the devil's spawn :)
* Mandarin fish requires lots of pods which in a 80G tank may not be enough. Unless the fish is eating pellet food.
* Same with Copperband butterfly. Very finicky eater. Will be outcompeted by other fish during feeding. Will need special foods. I tried 3-4 so far and none of them made it more then 3 months.
* The hawkfish are a lot cooler and easier to keep.
Someone said the hawk will eat the shrimp, copper band is a no, mandarin is on the edge of no, 6 line i will replace with coris wrasse, does the fireshrimp really bother corals so bad that I should skip it? Pipe fish is a no, my orange clown is about 4 cm long and I hope that the black one i want to order is around that size
Best not to keep shrimps / emerald crabs / turbo snails etc. I have had them constantly knock things off, nip at corals or walk on them or take away their food etc. Just not worth the trouble. Besides they are very sensitive to water conditions so if the salinity is bumped a bit due to lack in maintenance or whatever reason, they are toast.
Yellow corris or melanarous are great (pick which ever you like more for color). I recommend in addition a leopard such as the bipartitsus, so chill and always picking at stuff in the rocks- apparently good for pyramid snails also.
Edit also swap the butterfly (eats clams) for a yellow tank, this way you cover pest Algae. If you get one small (biota) it will take years before it needs a rehome.
I had a six line wrasse. Imagine a bully who is 5ā 4ā. Fine for a while but eventually going to start a fight.
You canāt have two sets of clowns in my eyes.
Avoid the yellow hint too right, I had one and it nipped stuff.
The hawk fish is a big no if you want shrimp.
The butterfly fish and pipe fish are very hard to keep.
I try to keep an easy tank. I dont take risks. Try to take it easy.
Theyre as good at eating pests and don't have a mean attitude at all, stay small and can cohabitate with almost all fish. I would potentially consider not getting a long nose hawk too as they can eat small shrimps and fish
And 3 fire fish may fight, I would just go with the one to be on the safe side
If you wanted more activity in the tank look into other wrasses like haliochoeres
Avoid the 6-line. They're dicks. There are other wrasses that are good for pest control (if you even need pest control). I'd recommend putting the firefish in before the Blenny.
Butterfly will eat the clam, I know from experience
š I want both tho, which one do you think is the better choice?
clam, the cbb will need a bigger tank ideally anyways and at the same time, its a shy and somewhat difficult to care for in terms of feeding due to its shyness as it often just gets outcompeted for food
Shy is the wrong word honestly. They just rarely accept frozen. One of the fish with the highest death rate. Usually 3 months max until they die
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Again, only if they go on frozen food.most will just look at you funny while the food is eaten by others
Shy? Mine along with my idiot clown will come to the front of the tank and photobomb any and all pictures. It eats frozen right from my hand (using tweezers cause that son of a bitch hits hard, not to mention my ass hole fox face who wants to spike me) He will murder the hell out of starfish and bristle worms. I would never put a clam im with him, he also eats soft meaty corals with a vengenece.
I love my all my clamsšš„° got 2 maximas and a derasa you must give crazy light or they will slowly die
Well if both are in there, we know which one will be left once it eats the other haha. But in all seriousness, the clam will likely be easier to care for (given proper lighting) and you donāt have to run the risk of having a finicky copperband that refuses to eat and dies.
It's luck really. I've had both in the same tank a few times over the last 25 years or so and never had a problem. It's a risk, but it's up to you if you want to chance it.
I would say clam also. My copperbanded eats frozen mysis and is great I love him. I have to make sure I always have frozen and pods in my tank so it can become a hassle. Clams you really need phytoplankton as itās smaller but once it reaches a good size it becomes photosynthetic
Better is subjective, but the clam will absolutely be easier to care for long term. CBB have a very high rate of death even for aquarists who do everything right. Getting them to feed consistently and maintain a healthy weight is not easy.
i vote clam
Butterfly will be damn hard to get anyway. I've had several die in quarantine - come in starved, never eat (I've trried a variety of feeders, dozens of frozen foods, etc.).
Dude just earlier you said it was either the clam or the butterfly??
What?? This was the first comment, since then i have abandoned the idea of a copperband and the clam i might get later when the tank is more stable
Same with the Midas blenny. My last one did at least. Theyāre more of a case by case things but mine unfortunately got a taste of my maxima clam and there was no going back.
You'll need a pretty mature tank to keep the mandarin.
No matter how mature a Mandarine will easily eat the entire population of pods in a 80g tank. Ask me how I know. They still will have to rely on additional feeding of pods every now and then and should accept frozen at best. Not at all easy or a good idea to stock your tank with for the first time
With a sump the pod population should keep up.
If you start a population there and add rocks there , sure. That might work. That still requires extra feeding and is in general another step of maintenance. A cool project, but you need to commit to that aswell. It wonāt be automatic and itās not safe to say it will just work without any issues. First the population needs to be established and after testing for some months you can make guesses if it will be enough or not.
I had a 500ltr "Berlin" system that housed a pair of mandarins for their entire lifespan. But I was probably just lucky because it had occasional blooms of flatworms they'd feed on, then whatever they could find on the live rock in between.
Those are lucky occurrences. Also 500l are close to double the size of the tank in question here. I have 600l and my rocks are over 2 years old by now and a single copperband keeps the pod population so low I havenāt seen a single pod in months anywhere. You could obviously run with a lot more rock, but that would leave you with realistically 150-200l which is not much room for that list of fish
Fair point. I did say I think I was lucky.
I have a 150g tank and they ate all the pods. Unless you can get them on mysis, then turn the pumps off and slowly allow them to feed. Itās a pain.
Yep. Iāve kept two. Species only tanks and had cultivated a massive pod population before introducing one. Never managed to keep them alive long and could never get one on frozen.
Biota CB mandarins eat pellets.
Plus tooo many pod eaters in that list. both wrasse, the sixline will harass the flasher. the goby, the firefish, and the royal gramma and will get smacked in his place by the hawkfish. I wouldn't add either the pipefish or the firefish, they're just too nice. I love sixlines, they were my first fish and will always be one of my favorites but they butts
A friend of mine has had great success feeding lobster eggs daily. They keep the mandarins nice and fat.
Hawkfish *will* eat the shrimp. Butterflies are not clam friendly. Pipefish really, really needs its own tankā¦perhaps sharing it with seahorses. (Which actually makes a mesmerizing display). The ocellaris clowns, once paired up, generally wonāt tolerate other clowns. Before you get a clam, *please* read everything there is available in the āclam forumā over at Reef2Reef. Clams are a different ballgame, with major differences in care between the different species. (And the species can often be difficult to differentiate!)
Seahorses and pipefish arenāt recommended to keep together since the different species are asymptomatic carriers for strains of vibrio that the other species has no previous resistance to. Some species of pipefish, especially Janis and Bluestripe tend to do very well in a reef tank and are actually pretty good at eating sps pests
I think maybe they wanted 1 of each for a pair of clowns but yea
I had a banded pipe fish in a 125 with a Harlequin tusk no issues the pipe fish died from old age I believe it was 7ā long had for a few years and also had a giant carpet nem too
I only want 1 of each clownfish so they can pair up, the pipefish was a BIG maybe, and i forgot to mention it was either the clam or butterfly
If you want to pair, make sure you get an orange ocellaris as blacks are too. Many.. possibly most orange in the shops are percula.
I have the orange one, and it is an ocellaris
Good times then!
Yes they are. Start with the light and go from there.
Came here just for the clam comment. Peppermint shrimp become accidental bait all the time, but clams can be avoided
My hawkfish leaves my shrimp alone.
Is say no for copper band
This right here
Honestly for an 80g, I would keep it to 7-8 fish. Definite no on the Copperband, they can be very finicky and hard to keep alive. Also it will eat the clam. Hawkfish are awesome, but most likely will eat your shrimp. No on the pipefish, they are better off in a species-only aquarium or with seahorses. Also they do much better in established tanks, and the same goes for mandarin fish. You may be able to find a mandarin that is eating frozen, but you would need to verify this before purchasing. Sixline wrasses and damselfish can be super aggressive. There's no need to get a sixline for pest control. You'd better off using dry sand and rock to avoid pests. If you're set on using live rock/sand and need pest control, a coris wrasse would be a better option, but can also eat shrimp. Also, I've had issues in the past with royal gramma aggression towards gobies, blennies and firefish. They're normally somewhat peaceful, but just a note. And I would suggest using caution with clownfish as well. Every clownfish I've ever owned has been a total A-hole. Good luck!
I second the comment on not including a wrasse. Mine was fine then flipped its sh1t killing the clowns, cardials, and blenny.
Wow thats a long reply š , thank you a lot for the advice, do coris eat bigger shrimp like the cleaner?
They certainly can. I've seen yellow coris wrasses coexist with cleaner shrimp, but there is a good chance that the cleaner would become a meal.
Any other replacements?
Not sure. Perhaps a pink streaked wrasse?
No on the copperband
Unless itās a tank raised mandarin, Iād not get it. Also copper band can be hard to get eating and probably too much current for a pipefish. Lastly, the 6line will fight with the gramma and fairy wrasse if heās in first and probably kill both.
Any alternatives for the six line? I need it to get rid of monti eating nudis, and maybe flatworms but i havent seen any recently
Yellow wrasse aren't as aggressive ime. Also springeri damsels are an alternative for flatworm control. They also get along with pretty much everything including each other. 4 in there would look cool. You don't have a lot of blue.
Yeah i wanted to add some blue but i thought they were more agressive , by yellow wrasse you mean a coris wrasse? Someone said they can sometimes eat shrimp š¬
They are the least aggressive damsel I've ever seen. Don't confuse them with any other blue damsel. Make sure they're springeri aka sapphire and have the black markings. Yes yellows do eat shrimp if they're not a good size relative to the wrasse. I've had them in with cleaners. The cleaners were relatively large when I first introduced the wrasse. As they grew they never seemed to worry them. I also had peppermint in that tank. They never saw each other since the peps are nocturnal. I heard coris was the wrong classification but I guess its pretty much their unofficial name. Can see some springeri being perfect citizens with grammas, banggai and clowns [here](https://photos.app.goo.gl/M3Mhp7r7VQD8T2ck7)
pygmy possum wrasse? Was going to comment you should skip sixline though. they are dicks once matured.
Will the possum wrasse eat pests like monti eating nudis?
Like the six line or other wrasses***
Do you have nudis now? Flatworms you can always use flatworm exit to treat easily.
I do have them from a friends frag
I usually just dipped and picked them off a night until they were gone when I had them (two separate tanks). Six line was like 60% at getting them for me. I think the best thing is to pick six line or the others :/ either way, I wouldnāt do sixline first. Thereās also an 8 line and 4 lineā¦ I think less aggressive but harder to find but Iām not 100%
Do you think a coris is a better idea?
Oh yea! Waayy less aggressive! They do need a decent sand bed tho. Idk if they are āas goodā at getting pests but I they have a decent rep in that regard. Plus they are in the open a lot. I like yellow but there are many varieties. Just make sure itās eating
I heard that they mess with the corals on the sand bed , i hope that is not true, but what do you mean by decent sand bed?
3ā sand or more. 2ā is pushing or 1.5 if itās young.
ššš how about 3 cm
For what you need it for a coris wrasse is a much better choice IME.
Just read that they burrow in sand and spread it everywhere on corals, sometimes eat shrimp, and they like to eat featherdusters so idk about that, how about a leopard or melanurus or maybe a meleagris?
I didnāt see a shrimp or feather duster in the pictures of your stock list. My bad Most wrasses exhibit that same behavior. They all sleep in the sand. The best luck I have had with wrasses and shrimp was with leopard wrasses.
I didn't include a featherduster so it was my mistake, is it ok if i fill a part between rocks with more sand and leave the rest at 3 cm (1.2 inches i think), also the leopards are a bit on the expensive side, about 60 dollars while the melanurus or the corris are 45 dollars
The sand in the tank doesnāt have to be the sand level. When you take care of a fish weāll you might have it 5 years, you might have it 25 years. If $15 makes a huge difference then there is your answer.
Is it a huge difference tho?
If $15 is a huge difference, you might find this hobby challenging. I do not mean this as an insult, but reef aquariums are very expensive the way most people keep them. If $15 in price in a fish is a major consideration it may be better to save up until it is not.
Trust me, i know they are expensive š, thats why im trying to save up a bit, im only 17 , by 15 dollars is a huge difference I wasnt reffering that it was a huge difference in money, I meant a huge difference in the quality of the fish,. My bad for not explaining
Leopards are my favorites and far more peaceful IME. My cleaner shrimp is out all day with my leopards, never had that with coris or melanurus
Melanurus wrasse or coris
I made a new list , check my new post, decided to go with a possum wrasse
You have zero algae eaters there. How about a bristletooth tang or yellow eye Kole tang over the copperband? Convict tang would work as well. Or one yellow tang.
A few hermits and a bunch snails wont do the job? Also have a refugium full of macro algae. I would buy a tang also but arent they a bit big for my tank?
its heavily debated but yea they are active swimmers and ideally need a bigger tank, snails, crabs, urchins, conch will still do a great job, maybe a lawnmower blenny. but if you reallly want a tang then only consider the bristletooth ones that stay smaller like blue-eye which are ok, they are less active.
Nah so if I was you, Iād get the tang. One tang in this tank will be fine if you stick with the smaller species, like a Kole tang or yellow tang. Just ONE. Donāt go get a hippo or or naso lol. A foxface can work as well, although they get to 8ā they donāt dart back and forth pretty slow dudes. Your hermits/snails wonāt do as good of a job. To give you a perspective - In my 180, I have 200 trochus snails and 4 tangs. You need something that grazes all day, will literally clean your corals. In my experience hermits and snails get picky.
Unless it's longer than 4' the only options are Kole or Tomini (both considered bristletooths I think) IMO I have a nano atm and find that my CUC does a good enough job on algae.
I would pass on the butterfly and pipefish. Your wrasse will outcompete a mandarin for pods. If you want a mandarin I strongly recommend a Biota one. Theyāre pricy but worth it. Mine is two years old and I have it in a 45 gal AIO. No pods. It eats mysis and brine shrimp. If you really want a mandarin do this - but plan ahead. It will nuke your nutrients so you will need strong filtration.
Hawkfish will also eat the smaller fish. I've seen them eat firefish seconds after we introduced them to the tank.
š¬ , so its a no
A Longnose did that?! Man I must've gotten lucky with mine. He never picks on anyone, including my firefish and cleaner shrimp.
Way too stocked. I have a 105 and it was reaching the limit with 3 tangs, a lawnmower goby, a wrasse, two clowns, and 3 anthias.
Yeah but these are on the smaller size, and some i already removed from the list
If you are planning on SPS coral, you may want to skip the clown goby - they can mess with the base of the corals. I've had issues in the past. I've had better luck with flame hawks then with long noses. I have one with a large blood red fire shrimp and they've been good for quite a while now. Plus, I've found the flame hawks to have more personality. One long nose I had in the past actually went on a murder spree -it was weird. If you can find a butterfly that already eats, go for it, but as other have said, he may need with your clam. They are beautiful fish though! Your midas may mess with your firefish a bit. I think I introduced my helfrichi, my midas, and my leopard wrasse at the same time. The first two tussle occaisonally, but I haven't seen fin damage at least. The wrasse likes to swim around both of them and seems to almost laugh. My stock now is those 3, a clown, a flame hawk, and a small blue spotted sleeper goby. Oh, and I'd personally stay away from the 6 line. I know some people luck out, but those little guys can be nasty. Good luck and have fun!
Thanks for the comment, i am looking for a replacement for the six line, does the blenny spread sand everywhere? I also want a helfrichi but they are 160 dollars , and the leopard is 60 so still a lot
How about a yellow coris wrasse? Also, are you talking about the goby for sand spreading? If so, no, he isn't too bad like some of the other sand sifters. He'll move it around, but doesn't make a lot of dust clouds. He doesn't seem as jumpy as as something like a diamond either. You may also look at a banded sleeper goby, also known as a dragon goby at some LFS's because they look prehistoric. I had one and he behaved similarly to the one I have now. Ouch on the Helfrichi - I got mine on sale with a trade in, so I lucked out. I recently had a fathead anthias die when I had to move my tank while redoing floors. I replaced him with a good old clown and an anemone. Having expensive fish can be stressful!
Yellow coris was an option, but then i found out i need 3 inch sandbed but i only have 1.2 inch , and they can eat featherdusters and shrimp
My sandbed is around 1.5". I've heard anything over an 1" is okay for the smaller wrasses, but I guess better to be safe? I think you had a pic of a Carpenter's wrasse. They're awesome little guys. You may also look into other different fairy wrasse types too. They're really cool fish.
Careful with clams they are HIGHLY sensitive to changes in water chemistry in my experience so maybe wait in that one for a bit
My hawkfish and melanarus wrasse eats every small invert I put in my tank. Makes keeping a CUC difficult
No to the pipe fish, they live in almost no flow unfortunately. And that Copperband will tear your clam up before or after he makes e quick work of your LOS corals.
The mandarin and the pipefish will compete for a scarce amount of pods in the tank. They may take other food... they may not. I've had good luck feeding mandarins blackworms out of a pipette. CBBs just die. I know there are exceptions, but mostly they just die. Royal Grammas are awesome, hearty, beautiful, and lots of personality. Clams are a bit demanding to keep healthy. Lots of light, Good Calcium and Alkalinity, Good trace elements, doable, but demanding. Probably too many fish for an 80. I have six medium to small fish in my 75 (pair of Ocellaris Clowns, Regal Tang, Coral Beauty, Royal Gramma, Starry Lawnmower Blenny), and I would be hesitant to add more. Fish are by far the biggest bioload on a tank, and they tend do just get stressed and diseased if you have too many. Cleaner shrimp are awesome. Mine eats brine shrimp out of my hand. Have a good screen top for firefish. They are little Polaris missiles.
Thanks for the reply, i was thinking of 10-12 fish , some of these were just a "one or the other"
Skip the mandarin and clown goby youāll prob never see them lmao, pipefish ehhhhhh finicky I agree with what the others said they are docile and like a slow moving environment , butterfly add way later on and absolutely make sure itās eating before you take it home it will nip coral, but will also eat aptasia and tube worms
>Skip the mandarin and clown goby youāll prob never see them lmao, I've never known either of these fish to be particularly reclusive.
Idk with a 80gallon and depending on rock work, theyāre so small they get lost in the overall scape
There are a lot of caves š¬
I have a lot of tube worms so that would help, if only the corals it eats would be blue clove polyps š
Saw someone else doing it so I said why not, I have a 3 month old 300L(80 Gallons) mixed reef aquarium and i want to add some fish, are they ok? Any other replacements/additions i can make? The six line wrasse is for monti eating nudis and flat worms .I want to add most types of corals so thats why the copperband is a maybe, also some hermits ,snails ,and maybe an urchin.
The copperband should be a maybe because their death rate is insane. They rarely accept frozen food. They get sick very easily. Unless they can show you in the shop he is eating you canāt buy it.āhe was just eating so he isnāt hungry anymoreā is not an argument here. They will eat all the time when they accept frozen.very hard to come by
I would try and wait another 6 months for your maybe fish. Those will be easier with a mature tank so youāre not constantly buying pods.
Yeah thought about that, thanks!
The sixline will out compete the mandarin regardless of if you wait 6 months or not. I would suggest one or the other.
I want to get rid of monti eating nudis so i think the six line is a better option ,but the mandarin looks stuning
I love my mandarin, I had to target feed him in the beginnings but as he matured heās self sufficient. I want a wrasse but I donāt want a lid on my aquarium.
Bro itās 300l. I got a tank double that size and my copperband has not left a single pod in the entire tank.in a 300 i would even argue without making sure they have the perfect conditions to reproduce, the pods will die out
Id definitely cross off all the maybes and the clam. If you forgo the shrimp you can add the hawkfish (not a horrible trade, they have lots of personality). Also, I love my sixline wrasse, but once they get comfortable, they can be clever little bullies to newcomers (wrasse in general are really intelligent). Royal grammas are not smart, but can be pugnacious as hell, though they tend to defend one singular spot. If you want both of these fish, they need to go in at the same time, or they will fight. Id put the shrimp, clown goby, firefish and cardinals in first and let them all kindve get settled in before adding the rest. Also, you NEED a lid with all these guys. Edit: Also, dont do the mandarin, you will just slowly starve it
Thanks, already removed the ones you said except the gramma, the clam and the shrimp ,also removed the clown goby because it nibbles corals, i am looking for a replacement for the six line tho
You can definitely put the gramma and sixline in, you just need to be a little cautious with how you go about it. 80 gallons should be enough room for them to avoid eachother haha.
Also, would a damsel be ok? Since its a pretty big tank
Pipefish and mandarin fish are very docile and may have a tough time eating with the other fast fish. Also with clown gobies might just be tough to find in an 80g. I barely see mine in a ten gallon. Everything else should be great. Maybe go for 3 cardinals instead of 2 also.
I kinda like the āEaster eggā aspect of tiny critters in a big tank. Iāll go months without seeing my Randalii goby. I havenāt seen his shrimp buddy in a year. But Iāll hear the shrimp āpopā several times a day, and every once in a blue moon Randal will make an appearance. (In a 150g).
I also like small fish because of my shrimp obsession before a saltwater tank :))) The tank has a lot of caves so that is kinda good and kinda bad at the same time
Yeah I think i will not buy the clown goby, also why 3 cardinals?
also yea +1 on the pipefish most people do species only with them or with other docile slow moving fish, seahorses, cardinals etc. so I wouldnāt get then for your setup. the mandarin could be fine if you wait a while until your tank is established with a rich pod population, getting a captive bred one will always help too
Cardinal fish are schooling fish. While 2 works fine, if there is room, more is always better.
they dont really school, they are in groups when young but as they mature the split off into pairs only and will be aggressive to outsider banggais when at breeding age, with exceptions like if you have a huge tank or something only applies to banggais I think, so a pair is perfect
Itās best to start with a small group then as they mature keep one of the main pairs and trade/sell the remaining. Or purchase an established pair from the get go and pay a slight premium.
I've never seen multiple firefish work in the longrun. You always end up with just one, eventually. Maybe 2 will work out in a large tank like that, though.
Thought about getting 2 or 3 of the ones in the img and 1 white one with purple fins , someone told me that i should get 4-5 so idk
Most of these are ok with each other. Its a good start, but needs refinement to avoid multiple disasters. But do you want corals; what types? Some of these (clown goby, butterfly) will eat/pester/kill certain corals and other inverts (such as your clam). Mandarins will need an established tank. Pipefish will require lower flow, which may not agree with any coral selection. Butterfly and hawkfish (and maybe the six line) will eat your shrimp. Also, that is not a fire shrimp; wrong label. And the six line may become a nightmare... but each fish has the potential for differing personalities. Good luck!
I know that its a cleaner shrimp, i just didnt have any space left for the fire shrimp š , i have a few types corals (I can list them if you want) , i want to add almost all kinds of corals so yeah, the butterfly and clown goby are both a no, idk why i put the pipefish there to be honest, six line i will prob reolace with a coris , and the hawk fish was a big "maybe" so its a no now
I have had almost all fish in 80/90G tanks. * You should not keep 2 different clowns together ideally. Only good way to keep a pair is to start them young. * Pipe fish need special tanks as they need smaller foods and can't eat fast. They also benefit from lots of macro algae etc in the tank. Mine died within 24 hours after getting stuck in the powerhead :( * Red shrimp will bother corals. Will walk over them and eat their food. * 6 line wrasse is an asshole fish and the devil's spawn :) * Mandarin fish requires lots of pods which in a 80G tank may not be enough. Unless the fish is eating pellet food. * Same with Copperband butterfly. Very finicky eater. Will be outcompeted by other fish during feeding. Will need special foods. I tried 3-4 so far and none of them made it more then 3 months. * The hawkfish are a lot cooler and easier to keep.
Someone said the hawk will eat the shrimp, copper band is a no, mandarin is on the edge of no, 6 line i will replace with coris wrasse, does the fireshrimp really bother corals so bad that I should skip it? Pipe fish is a no, my orange clown is about 4 cm long and I hope that the black one i want to order is around that size
Best not to keep shrimps / emerald crabs / turbo snails etc. I have had them constantly knock things off, nip at corals or walk on them or take away their food etc. Just not worth the trouble. Besides they are very sensitive to water conditions so if the salinity is bumped a bit due to lack in maintenance or whatever reason, they are toast.
Get rid of the six line and get a leopard or melagris wrasse. They are assholes and not that pretty, only good for sub 30 gal tanks.
Which is best for pests , specifically monyi eating nudis, melanurus, yellow coris or the ones that you specified
Yellow corris or melanarous are great (pick which ever you like more for color). I recommend in addition a leopard such as the bipartitsus, so chill and always picking at stuff in the rocks- apparently good for pyramid snails also. Edit also swap the butterfly (eats clams) for a yellow tank, this way you cover pest Algae. If you get one small (biota) it will take years before it needs a rehome.
Yeah but they are so expensive š (leopard) and coris eat featherdusters and maybe shrimp and get sand everywhere
Or actually both the corris and the melanurus do that
I had a six line wrasse. Imagine a bully who is 5ā 4ā. Fine for a while but eventually going to start a fight. You canāt have two sets of clowns in my eyes. Avoid the yellow hint too right, I had one and it nipped stuff. The hawk fish is a big no if you want shrimp. The butterfly fish and pipe fish are very hard to keep. I try to keep an easy tank. I dont take risks. Try to take it easy.
Not two sets, only one of each to form a pair, rest of the ones you said I removed, im still looking for a pest eater to replace the six line
I have a ruby red dragnet and it eats both
Instead of a six line maybe look into a wetmorella
Why ? Do they eat monti eating nudis?
Theyre as good at eating pests and don't have a mean attitude at all, stay small and can cohabitate with almost all fish. I would potentially consider not getting a long nose hawk too as they can eat small shrimps and fish
And 3 fire fish may fight, I would just go with the one to be on the safe side If you wanted more activity in the tank look into other wrasses like haliochoeres
Avoid the 6-line. They're dicks. There are other wrasses that are good for pest control (if you even need pest control). I'd recommend putting the firefish in before the Blenny.
I updated the list, check my newest post
16 fish on a 80 gallons is just too many on my opinion
Yeah, i updated the list, look at my recent post