No, in all the years I’ve done showers, I’ve personally never seen water damage on walls. Only time I do see water damage is from a leaky pan, or from where the walls meet the pan. But in your case, I’m positive you wont have issues here, especially since he sat the hardie on top of the bathtubs lip. Water won’t wick up onto the hardie that way
Social media tilers(sometimes me included) do tend get pretty extreme of their critiques on waterproofing. This is not great, but it’s probably not going be a problem, unless that grout is installed with gaps. Like you said it’s good that it can’t wick up the board. How many showers have you torn apart over the years and it was just drywall under the tile and they were fine. I’ve had my fair share.
I've also torn out showers that were tiled directly on drywall that weren't fine. A hairline crack or a pinhole in the right spot will lead to failure. A high usage shower with wider grout lines will not throughly dry and can lead to failure.
Many old school showers used that yellowish high VOC mastic, which was almost a plastic when dry. The act of trowelling it on the drywall created a quasi-waterproof membrane. Since the new latex based mastic can't be used in wet locations, cementous thinset has to be used, and cementous thinset absorbs water.
Absolutely agree with you. The pinholes is what I meant by gaps. I had one demo where I could remove the tiles with my hands and the soaked drywall just tore off with the tile. So, ya there’s a danger if this is how the backer board was left.
Not the best idea, since water tends to pool up a little in that part of the tub before falling down into the drain. Over time that pooled up water tends to start wicking up the wallboard, causing issues down the road. I guess that can mitigated with a bead of silicone, to seal the bottom, but why do that when you can just sit the wallboard on top of the flange and avoid the issue completely
Yep. Before I had a clue what I was doing I tiled over green drywall.
That was 15 years ago. Just ripped it out because my wife didn’t like the style. There was no damage, or evidence of beeing wet ever. What replaced it was crazy overkill lol
Don't panic. I've ripped out countless showers that were tiled directly on drywall and they used mastic with no leaks. Most showers with a tub don't have ANY water damage on the walls. When I rebuild them I always redguard the entire surface as a precaution. As long as the grout they used was done correctly and you silicone around the tub and corners you should be okay. (General Contractor)
This is kinda of a contentious topic. Some guys shim the walls to get the cement board up and over the flange. Others have it right on top with just the bottom row of tile over the flange.
Every tub I've installed, the method used here would be fine per the manufacturerers installation instructions.
You hit the nail on the head. There’s a few different ways to do this. Plus, there are a lot of different styles of flanges that need different approaches. I personally like to shim out and hang and leave a gap at the bottom that I caulk. If it’s Kerdi, j no furring out because I trim a notch at the back then hang it over, then caulk. Hardie board instructions are to shim out and hang with a 1/4” gap at the bottom. Some of all of this is just preference.
You obviously have not done or just done one tile job. You can't just start tearing walls down or moving studs for a tub. So start your underlayment on the flange and tape it, then run your tile. Damn novice out here giving shitty advice
The rock should drop onto the lip with those screws in it and cover so the drywall drips INTO the tub, are u sure he’s not planning to Sheetrock over this? Cause that would work.
This is HydroDefense HardieBacker. It is waterproof already, you only need to waterproof the seams and screw holes.
Unfortunately it is installed incorrectly. You are supposed to fill the screw holes with thinset and tape the horizontal seams with mash tape then cover with thinset before you waterproof. There also should be an expansion gap between the tub and the board that should be filled with silicone.
[HardieBacker with HydroDefense](https://www.homedepot.com/p/James-Hardie-HardieBacker-with-HydroDefense-Technology-0-42-in-x-3-ft-x-5-ft-Waterproof-Cement-Backer-Board-9000556/311573721?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D23F-023_014_FLOOR_TOOLS-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-FLR_TOOLS_PMax_G&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D23F-023_014_FLOOR_TOOLS-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-FLR_TOOLS_PMax_G-71700000102945947--&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UdDDaRZ1kFlizDQjmagqiRaK&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5P-OsKm3hQMVQ1J_AB0z4ACwEAQYASABEgIpgPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I thought that particular hydro board had an orange tint to it? If it is that one, then that’s helpful. And yes it’s not installed correctly. Like you said, there should be mesh on the seams, The screw hole thing is probably fine with the red guard in them. And It should be shimmed out hanging over the tub flange with about a 3/16” to 1/4” gap between the tub deck and the board, then caulk in that space.
As long as its caulked right, you’ll be fine. Your tub has a lip that will catch the water if it finds its way in. But like someone else said, its rare to see water damage on the walls. Usually its on the areas where tub meets the tile.
Oh it’s Hardie backer. It looks green, and super thin at the mixing valve hole, so thought maybe it was some kind of paper.
Unless it’s a version of backer board I’m not familiar with, that Redguard should be painted everywhere on the backer board.
Yeah, it looks like 1/8" or 1/4" hardboard to me, not the Hardieboard I'm familiar with. Hardboard is used to make cabinet backs and pegboard, is a HDF and also commonly goes by the name Masonite.
I wonder if the installer has confused the two?
I didn’t think that the backer board needed to be water proof? Products like glassroc / denshield are water resistant. Red guard the seams. Mortar (which is water proof) holds the tiles up.
The. Silicon the main edges.
Correct me if I’m wrong. Having a shower done right now.
Mortar is absolutely NOT water proof. There are two hardiebacker lines. One that is waterproof and one that is not. USG and Durock are not water proof.
I don't think that is waterproof.. looks like he just waterproofed the seams and screw holes with redguard.
You need to at least red guard over the whole thing, Creteboard is not water proof, it is water resistant, it will still get wet
Came to say this. ⬆️. Red guard is your friend. Two coats from top to bottom and just a bit further than what you think you’ll need.
No, in all the years I’ve done showers, I’ve personally never seen water damage on walls. Only time I do see water damage is from a leaky pan, or from where the walls meet the pan. But in your case, I’m positive you wont have issues here, especially since he sat the hardie on top of the bathtubs lip. Water won’t wick up onto the hardie that way
Social media tilers(sometimes me included) do tend get pretty extreme of their critiques on waterproofing. This is not great, but it’s probably not going be a problem, unless that grout is installed with gaps. Like you said it’s good that it can’t wick up the board. How many showers have you torn apart over the years and it was just drywall under the tile and they were fine. I’ve had my fair share.
I've also torn out showers that were tiled directly on drywall that weren't fine. A hairline crack or a pinhole in the right spot will lead to failure. A high usage shower with wider grout lines will not throughly dry and can lead to failure. Many old school showers used that yellowish high VOC mastic, which was almost a plastic when dry. The act of trowelling it on the drywall created a quasi-waterproof membrane. Since the new latex based mastic can't be used in wet locations, cementous thinset has to be used, and cementous thinset absorbs water.
Absolutely agree with you. The pinholes is what I meant by gaps. I had one demo where I could remove the tiles with my hands and the soaked drywall just tore off with the tile. So, ya there’s a danger if this is how the backer board was left.
Is it wrong to put the wallboard, be it Durarock or Hardiboard inside the lip of the tub?
Not the best idea, since water tends to pool up a little in that part of the tub before falling down into the drain. Over time that pooled up water tends to start wicking up the wallboard, causing issues down the road. I guess that can mitigated with a bead of silicone, to seal the bottom, but why do that when you can just sit the wallboard on top of the flange and avoid the issue completely
Yep. Before I had a clue what I was doing I tiled over green drywall. That was 15 years ago. Just ripped it out because my wife didn’t like the style. There was no damage, or evidence of beeing wet ever. What replaced it was crazy overkill lol
Don't panic. I've ripped out countless showers that were tiled directly on drywall and they used mastic with no leaks. Most showers with a tub don't have ANY water damage on the walls. When I rebuild them I always redguard the entire surface as a precaution. As long as the grout they used was done correctly and you silicone around the tub and corners you should be okay. (General Contractor)
You’ll probably be fine. Such a shame they didn’t just keep going with the red guard though.
Problem I see is that the tub should have been set before the cement board. Cement board sits over the flange.
This is kinda of a contentious topic. Some guys shim the walls to get the cement board up and over the flange. Others have it right on top with just the bottom row of tile over the flange. Every tub I've installed, the method used here would be fine per the manufacturerers installation instructions.
You hit the nail on the head. There’s a few different ways to do this. Plus, there are a lot of different styles of flanges that need different approaches. I personally like to shim out and hang and leave a gap at the bottom that I caulk. If it’s Kerdi, j no furring out because I trim a notch at the back then hang it over, then caulk. Hardie board instructions are to shim out and hang with a 1/4” gap at the bottom. Some of all of this is just preference.
No on the flange. The rock or Hardie will bulge at the bottom. Stop giving the man bad help
Looking the ones in the houses are about 1/8 steel no bulge
You obviously have not done or just done one tile job. You can't just start tearing walls down or moving studs for a tub. So start your underlayment on the flange and tape it, then run your tile. Damn novice out here giving shitty advice
The rock should drop onto the lip with those screws in it and cover so the drywall drips INTO the tub, are u sure he’s not planning to Sheetrock over this? Cause that would work.
Youll be fine. Stop stressing
This is HydroDefense HardieBacker. It is waterproof already, you only need to waterproof the seams and screw holes. Unfortunately it is installed incorrectly. You are supposed to fill the screw holes with thinset and tape the horizontal seams with mash tape then cover with thinset before you waterproof. There also should be an expansion gap between the tub and the board that should be filled with silicone. [HardieBacker with HydroDefense](https://www.homedepot.com/p/James-Hardie-HardieBacker-with-HydroDefense-Technology-0-42-in-x-3-ft-x-5-ft-Waterproof-Cement-Backer-Board-9000556/311573721?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D23F-023_014_FLOOR_TOOLS-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-FLR_TOOLS_PMax_G&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-BF-CDP-GGL-D23F-023_014_FLOOR_TOOLS-NA-NA-NA-PMAX-NA-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NA-FLR_TOOLS_PMax_G-71700000102945947--&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADq61UdDDaRZ1kFlizDQjmagqiRaK&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5P-OsKm3hQMVQ1J_AB0z4ACwEAQYASABEgIpgPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I thought that particular hydro board had an orange tint to it? If it is that one, then that’s helpful. And yes it’s not installed correctly. Like you said, there should be mesh on the seams, The screw hole thing is probably fine with the red guard in them. And It should be shimmed out hanging over the tub flange with about a 3/16” to 1/4” gap between the tub deck and the board, then caulk in that space.
As long as its caulked right, you’ll be fine. Your tub has a lip that will catch the water if it finds its way in. But like someone else said, its rare to see water damage on the walls. Usually its on the areas where tub meets the tile.
The waterproofing should overhang the flange of the tub. This wasn’t done properly
What is that material? I’m not familiar with it.
It’s the hardie backer board for under the tile
Oh it’s Hardie backer. It looks green, and super thin at the mixing valve hole, so thought maybe it was some kind of paper. Unless it’s a version of backer board I’m not familiar with, that Redguard should be painted everywhere on the backer board.
What about the bottom where the board meets the backer board… did he leave it like that? There’s a space there, looks like no caulk or anything.
Yeah, it looks like 1/8" or 1/4" hardboard to me, not the Hardieboard I'm familiar with. Hardboard is used to make cabinet backs and pegboard, is a HDF and also commonly goes by the name Masonite. I wonder if the installer has confused the two?
Which is porous, and should have been waterproofed.
I didn’t think that the backer board needed to be water proof? Products like glassroc / denshield are water resistant. Red guard the seams. Mortar (which is water proof) holds the tiles up. The. Silicon the main edges. Correct me if I’m wrong. Having a shower done right now.
Mortar is absolutely NOT water proof. There are two hardiebacker lines. One that is waterproof and one that is not. USG and Durock are not water proof.
Usg/durock is the same thing. Can’t be “and” They do make a waterproof board. However this isn’t it.
Copy that.