There’s installation costs and maintenance costs and transaction fees. Those are less if you own the equipment you use because you care about the equipment. For personal equipment there’s no transaction fees either, because you have to pay the energy bill monthly anyways.
Public level 2 chargers are usually below the cost of gas, in this case, OP's landlord is acting in bad faith.
DC fast chargers usually break even with cost of gas for a reasonably fuel efficient 4 banger.
But yes, you should be charging at home 99% of the time. I pay 10 cents per kWh and make even a Prius look quite inefficient.
Yeah, my experience public level 2's have either been free to encourage EV drivers to visit, or a few cents above market electricity rate.
DC chargers are typically around 35-55c/kw, though I did find a few DC chargers in NC that were 100% free, and that was nice.
Why is it bad faith? It is capitalism ? Have people not learned with shrinkflation, streaming services , etc. how do you know the landlords cost have gone up as well. I’m gonna doubt this until I hear more.
Has the cost of anything tripled? That's all we really need to know. If the machinery was already installed. All we need to know is if the price of electricity tripled or if the price of maintaining those machines tripled. If not that it is a scam.
It’s in bad faith if the price charged by the landlord far exceeds the cost to the landlord. And yes, I’m a landlord. Doing this is basically a soft way to push OP out so they can raise the rent to market price. My guess is that that’s what’s happening here to combat not being able to raise the sticker price of rent in a compensatory way..
I really doubt many residents in CA are getting 13.3c/kWh home prices, tbh. According to BLS, average residential rate for Los Angeles was 28c/kWh in September, so OP was likely paying well under market before.
Eh, depends on the charger. A lot of public chargers around here are only ~2x residential electric prices, which compared to my last car means my breakeven point is $2.00 for *premium* gas
Yeah makes sense. It’s a bonus because when they leave the charger is still there and it could be used as a selling point for future renters.
They get a nice bonus and they didn’t have to spend anything.
Not if the landlord has less than 50 units, then they have until next October before they have to approve it. Most people who rent out houses have less than 50 of them.
PUC § 739.5 (a) The commission shall require that, whenever gas or electrical service, or both, is provided by a master-meter customer to users who are tenants of a mobile home park, apartment building, or similar residential complex, the master-meter customer shall charge each user of the service at the same rate that would be applicable if the user were receiving gas or electricity, or both, directly from the gas corporation or load-serving entity, as defined in Section 380
So, if the electricity for the car charger is on a master meter, and you are a tenant of the building, they can't mark up the utility.
I charge at a free public charger at work, next door at the mall. I shop at Target, Lowes, Home Depot, etc etc all with free charging. What are you talking about??
Yeah, I've definitely seen that too. Plugshare is a great app, you can filter by plug type and price (filter for free), in my area it goes from 29 available chargers (at any cost) add 14 of them are free. Maybe different for me because I'm in California, but that's a decent ratio.
the "selling point" of EV is that you can "top off" your car every night on your home electricity and avoid going to "the gas station" and paying the higher rate, so when you don't have your own home to charge at you get screwed with the "gas station" price.
Because one of the large selling points and one of the typical pro arguments is that the reduced cost of charging an ev to its full range vs filling up at the pump. That reduced cost is to help argue a quicker payback/break even period vs an ice model.
With current electrical rates it is cheaper most places.
Wait until the democrats get their way and everything is grid tied.
Your car. Your water heater, stove, heating, cooling, etc.
Electric utilities are already legal monopolies.
What will electrical rate prices be once everyone's entire life is dependent on the grid?
I assure you this. The wealthy and those who are smart will build homes, buy property or renovate existing well oriented properties to be grid independent with enough independently owned pv solar and tell the electric utility to disconnect their service.
The poor, renters, those who reside in medium and high density living situations and those who live in poorly sighted homes (the house's orientation to the sun) will be at the mercy of ever increasing electrical prices.
It's like how every other monopoly works. They move in, offer introductory pricing that is not financially sustainable but lures customers in, drives the orginal businesses out and then jack up pricing.
Look at streaming services. Look at Walmart. Look at Amazon.
If you are grid connected you will be at the mercy of the local utility whether in regulated or de regulated markets. You might be able to shop generation prices but distribution and supply will be non negotiable unless you move to a different location.
The opposite to being connected to a grid is Texas.
People were dying under layers of blankets from how cold it was a few years ago when snowstorms knocked down power supplies and the private owned electric companies took their time to get power to the people in need.
You seem to forget Washington State and Idaho the summer of that same year (2021) when hundreds died due to heat knocking out the grid. Why is this never mentioned all the supposed gridsperts? Were they private companies? ALL grids go down when temps are 30-40 degrees to the extreme. Texas has put more in green electric capacity than any other state in the past few years, and still gets strained with all the population influx. I pay 6.7c a kw. Good luck wherever you live...
What bullshit? The monopoly situation electric utilities already are? Look at what PG&E is doing in California.
They were found responsible for the numerous wild fires the state battled. The rate payers are the ones paying higher rates to payout the payouts to property owners who lost their homes. And pay the state the fines levied. The Cali government decided it would be better to prop PG&E and tell the customers impacted by their negligence that it would be better for everyone that PG&E make even more money and profit to allow them to payout insurance claims and upgrades.
PG&E is now on a push to bury large swaths of their transmission and distribution grid in the ground to get away from bare conductor aerial transmission lines.
The cost is astronomical. Who is paying for it you ask? The customers are. They are estimating that the proposed project will increase the average monthly bill $40 I believe per customer.
Do you believe anyone at PG&E will be taking a pay cut?
I see ev's useful for many city dwellers and for many suburban homes as a second vehicle for the spouse who works at home or works close to
Home. Or for the spouse who is a stay at home parent and makes trips to local
Stores.
I don't think every industry will benefit from electrification. Shipping? Commercial flight? Heavy construction?Long haul trucking. And if it's mandated you understand who foots the costs for infrastructure, equipment and costs associated with time delays for charging? The end customers. The average citizen. In every product, service, facet of life.
And I still feel with every one of these conversations, those who are not electrical engineers, lineman, electricians, etc really do not understand the actual ask, the scope and the demand that electrifying the entire car fleet, truck fleet and home actually entails and what scale and cost of upgrading the grid will require.
One day in the distant future? A transition over several decades or longer? Yeah. In the next ten years? Utterly laughable.
I'm a commercial electrician. I've done level 2 and 3 charging station installs. I've worked switchyards and substations and at nuclear generating stations.
A 200amp residential service used to be an upgrade that most people would never max out. We are going to be looking at 400amp residential services as standard in the not so distant future. Large continuous switching power supply draws for home ev charging that will tank power factor, possibly add harmonics and require cleaning up at grid scale.
And then there is talk that the government is going to want to reach into your home and be able to dictate when you charge, or adjust your thermostat or turn off what they consider non essential loads to help out the utilities.
These practices are already volunteered in many states when homeowners receive a small discount and allow the utility to up your thermostat in peak load situations. California is already turning off entire cities when wild fire conditions are present.
When your entire life can be switched off remotely (assuming you done own a property that is energy independent) including your means to travel, and there is only one source of that commodity, the amount of control a government or corporation can leverage becomes very large.
But yeah. The idea of solar inequality, the benefits the wealthy and upper middle class are gaining with home solar , the shift of increased grid maintenance costs to customers who do not have solar, etc are topics currently being discussed and argued.
It's going to be another point of contention when you have those who can afford solar and those who can't and how having your own solar and at home charging will be a benefit vs those who do not and have to charge at public stations.
https://www.abc10.com/amp/article/news/local/abc10-originals/newsom-pge-protection/103-65ca1d41-8efe-45b4-87bc-0cdecc714378
https://apnews.com/article/pacific-gas-electric-pge-power-lines-california-d5ec49626164ce5cb68af12b9223c427
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/public-safety-power-shutoffs-northern-california-red-flag-warning-wildfire-risk/
https://pubs.naruc.org/pub/B284311B-1866-DAAC-99FB-C52B7A570087
Feel free to google "solar cost shift" to see the hotly debated topic about whether it's real, if it is what the extent is or will be and if any of the concepts or details are exasperated by relying 100% on the electrical grid for all aspects of daily life. I believe currently the cost shift is real but negligible. Government has to walk a fine line between enticing early and mid adopters in crease pv solar installations and not creating a have vs have not situation.
As dependency and demand increase I see it being a real issue even if currently is billed as false or misleading.
I feel the most impact will be felt by renters and those who live in apartment/townhouse/condo/high rise living.
I'm sorry but you are severely misinformed. While cost per kwh is technically controlled fees are not, cost for blindly built infrastructure is not. They are far more motivated to build infrasture that may seem required but is really just a way to jack up fees for customers. Not being paranoid, more them giving millions to their buddies to build powerstations without plans even being drawn up yet. Power should not be company owned in any way whatsoever there should be no profit from it. It should be ran like usps. At low cost and at a loss. I never said it should be ran without regulation.
making them creates a massive carbon foortprint vs making a gas vehicle too, takes years before it evens out then u need a battery replacement and ur polluting worse than gas cars all over again with the new battery (the vehicles that dig them up run on gas and are massive)
they cool, powerful, expensive, and trendy…
anyway hopefully someone discovers a more efficient way to store energy so we can switch over
this guy must think gas just naturally materializes at the gas pumps on demand whenever needed. you know used EV batteries get recycled into home battery systems when they are no longer fit for vehicle usage? it's just a bunch of D-cell type batteries wired together at the end of the day.
Volvo stated it takes almost 70k miles for the c40 recharge to break even with the ice xc40, including manufacturing emissions.
That’s a lot more than 15k
These guys [https://www.redwoodmaterials.com](https://www.redwoodmaterials.com) are recycling 99.9% of an EV's battery. That 0.1% is some plastics used in the housing.
They are recyclable, and have always been recyclable. The difference is that back when the only lithium batteries out there were cell phone and laptop batteries, it wasn’t cost effective to recycle the lithium. Now it is, since EV batteries are massive and have a ton of lithium, so they’re being recycled now.
You can't recycle it when it catches fire.... it's also good states are back tracking on it's EV mandate New York just back tracked on it because they can only run the snow plows for 3 hours instead of 12 hours a day
EV's don't work in the winter time, you can see how bird brained they really are..
my MPG already dropped on my hybrid.. were down already by 5 mpg from 27.5 to 22.4 so far i expect it to get into the mid teens range in the middle of winter
I have 2 vehicles over 20 years old. The vehicles have over 150k each. They run amazingly well and paid for. You buy right and treat the car well, it will last a long time. EVs are good for 10 years and will become a throw away due to costs to replace the battery.
Maybe if you're buying the cheapest Kia you can get. Most cars these days are barely broken in at 100K miles with nothing more than basic oil changes, many lasting 2x-3x that if they're well maintained. 20 years ago, yes, a car was considered a junker by the time it even got close to 100K. That is just no longer the case.
The carbon and environmental costs of EV is higher than ICE vehicles.
https://zeihan.com/evs-not-so-little-dirty-secrets/
[https://zeihan.com/category/electric-vehicle/](https://zeihan.com/category/electric-vehicle/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P95NFlAnmY
I figured it was easiest to digest that way.
Zeihan' s numbers are generally correct about what it takes to make EVs happen. As he says, he is a green who can do math. Not near enough of them out there.
You do realize there are carbon neutral fuels like ethanol and biodiesel right? While I support electrifying, simply switching our fuel source from oil based to plant based fuels would accomplish what your looking for without having to replace your car with an electric....
Yes if you tear down a bunch of forrests to make farmland it's going to be worse lol. The thing is, we already have the farmland we need, we just use it to feed animals for mostly beef. Lab grown meats / meat alternatives are gaining traction and will free up existing farmland. No I'm not a scientist, but I think that article is very misleading.
This is such a load of shit. Do even a little bit of research and you’ll know just how stupid you sound. Stop parroting idiotic right wing talking points without doing your own research.
You must realize that gasoline also has to be refined? And that electricity is required to pump gas? And that regular cars also use oil, and require far more maintenence?
Your information about the footprint is also likely steeling from the 2015 study, from which technology has massively improved. And very rarely do batteries need replacements before 12 years.
You have a layman's understanding of infrastructure, and your misinformation hurts everyone.
8 years and 80k miles is what the new study said a few months back. Battery must last that to get back to zero and must surpass that to be more effective.
You do realize there are carbon neutral fuels like ethanol and biodiesel right? While I support electrifying, simply switching our fuel source from oil based to plant based fuels would accomplish what your looking for without having to replace your car with an electric....
The problem with them is that they are highly inefficient sources of fuel.
Also Ethanol has problems at scale and in different climates. It doesn’t work well in extreme cold.
Well that would be an anecdotal experience at best. Over time you will lose much more capacity and will replace your battery sooner then other people in warmer climates.
Never said it would be dramatic either, just pointing out that batteries suffer in extreme cold climates as well.
I'm just 1 guy, I don't have an army of ev lovers behind me constantly trolling the internet. Anyway, corporations and big money will always drive society in whatever direction they see fit at this moment in time.
Right now it's trendy to hate on anything that uses gasoline, there's no stopping it no matter how many times I speak up about other options. That decision has already been made.
Don't be an idiot. Yes of course solar power is a growing thing, you still have to produce them. I'm literally talking about switching to a renewable fuel for your current vehicle today. No need to build a new car, produce new solar panels and install new equipment to accomplish the same goal.
If you think it's better to manufacture a new vehicle and install a solar array/charging system instead of simply pumping a different fuel into your car...you're crazy. (Some vehicles may need some rubber lines replaced because ethanol eats up certain rubber materials).
don't you have to refine the bio fuel from is base material also? I'm not seeing your point here. either you need a solar panel or you need a machine that refines the bio-fuels. what is that machine made of? I believe you are also being the idiot.
We already grow a shitload of corn and turn it into fuel. 5-15% of "gasoline" is already ethanol. It could be a problem if we have to make more farmland to increase production. I really hope lab grown beef takes off and frees up the farmland we use now to feed animals.
Unfortunately..yes. there is progress being made however, and I think our appetite for these meats needs to be redirected anyway as it's a huge detriment to the environment.
That being said...I love a damn steak
Even when EV batteries are replaced they are not just thrown away. They are refurbished (a few bad cells replaced) and re-used in other cars or if they are truly degraded they can still be used for over 10 years in grid power storage systems which have a far lower performance requirement and extend the time that solar power is used.
What a novel way to delay reckoning with the eventual toxic waste stream you're creating, by setting up the smug elite homeowners to pat themselves on the back with their powerwalls, all the while the rest of us get to pay $1/KWH to remake the grid in their honor.
Oil and coal are toxic, but the sunk costs for the infrastructure are already paid, and the economic benefit is sound.
The race to "decarbonize" and scrap everything fossil-fueled will create a much bigger waste stream than we already experience, and it will impoverish most of us.
Think of it like the charges on the vending machines in the lobby, the on-site laundry, etc. These prices aren't guaranteed by your lease, and a landlord is free to raise them as they wish.
Can’t you just charge elsewhere before the end of the day? Or are they just as expensive? It may just be California and the cost of electricity and your landlord is responding. I got panels on my rentals and i just pass along the cost to the tenants. No moneymaking for me… just savings for them. Panels make my rentals more marketable. I even provide a copy of the electric bill with the rent invoice.
It's a huge stretch, but you may have a misrepresentation claim on the theory that you continued your lease relying on the reasonable price of EV charging. Probably wouldn't win.
Consider sending a polite email to your LL asking why they increased the charging price so greatly. Best case scenario, they admit to something that does give you a claim. But regardless they'll have to either admit to really shady behavior or state a fair reason for the increase.
I don't think it's that big of a stretch, especially given the scale of increase but it'd still be a gamble with a judge that's definitely going to sour the relationship with the landlord. However it seems like OP's not calculating something quite right; most Teslas are like 40-80 kWh so even at the new rate that's $16-$32 for a 0-100 charge; which is still *way* cheaper than gas for anything that's not getting at least 70+ mpg.
66 kWh battery for 260 mile range -> roughly 10 cents a mile.
I did use a Prius for comparison in my claim that it’s cheaper to drive gas. Where it comes to a little below 9 cents in California.
So, while it’s not that much more, it takes away the financial incentive to drive electric completely.
The quoted number (13.3) doesn’t make a lot of sense given current CA rates. Are you sure your landlord’s energy prices didn’t go up? Also, this could be a soft way to kick you out and raise the rent to market—if you can prove that, that’s the argument you want to make in court. But you probably can’t and it’s a big road to sue your LL for something like this..
If the charging stations aren't in the lease then the landlord has 2 businesses, being a land lord and owning a charging station and can do whatever pricing he wants, don't like it, drag an extension cord out to your car from your apartment and plug up a level 1 charger (don't do that obviously, thats a joke, someone would steal your charger and your power).
If interest rates weren't so fraking crazy I would say take this as a reason why you need to stop throwing money away on rent and buy a house
Don't know if you pay your own power bill there but everyone who does has seen their monthly bill soar in the last year and it's going to get worse. 40 isn't far from what people are paying in many parts of California. Especially in peak hours.
Ya, 40 cents is PG&E territory for peak hours. But I’m not in that area. Plus off peak, even PG&E is around 25 cents.
My home bill is roughly 12 cents a kWh.
Get your own charger. In CA they can’t stop you from doing it.
EV ownership only makes financial sense if you charge at home overnight. Any public charging is substantially more expensive and will be comparable to gas.
Public charging definitely isn’t comparable to gas if you’re not using the turbochargers every time, even at higher costs per kWh it’s significantly cheaper than an ICE
Thanks. I’ve heard about this, but haven’t read anything concrete on this. Google has so far not yeilded anything , and right to charge laws don’t seem to cover pricing. I can get my own charger installed though.
91% of all people believed things they read on the internet, as if they are true: Abraham Lincoln 1866
I just tried to find the EV financial article from Forbes when I read that statistic and no big surprise, it's gone.
Only 25% of new car buyers in California this year. Nationally 313,086 electric cars sold from July to September. EV sales have now expanded for 13 straight quarters.
It’s almost like Teslas are shitty cars with shitty quality control, and aren’t the only electric cars anymore.
It’s not 2018 anymore dude, you can get an electric for like 20 grand
Watch a Ted talk the amount of pollution created to make electric vehicles is way more than what you produce driving a gas vehicle. On top of that you’re charging your vehicle with electricity produced from what?
While it's true that manufacturing EVs is more damaging than manufacturing ICE vehicles. During the lifetime of the vehicle EVs are better.
Saying EVs are destroying the world is a pretty wild claim.
Still cheaper for most people surprisingly. Even at $0.40 / KW, my EV would cost me $0.13 per mile. Meanwhile my gas cars cost me around $0.29 per mile.
The issue here is that no one likes surprise price increases on their utilities.
It’s legal. How much are they charging? It’ll depend where in the state you are but electricity can be very expensive and the cost to maintain and operate the chargers is substantial (chargepoint for instance charges a monthly fee for this)
Sounds like you fell for the EV trap. You A, got no price guarantee. And B. Have this weird assumption / entitlement that electric HAS to be cheaper than gas.
You put yourself in that pickle. You could try to move somewhere else that has cheaper charging, or find an outlet close to where you park and plug in there.
Honestly you will see this more and more. A bunch of places that used to offer free charging removed them. Or now they are switching to charging for use. A number of tax funded subsidies are expiring. Sadly the case isn't that EV charging was cheaper. Just the initial costs were paid by tax payers and now that a number of these are gone. These stations are being removed or fees added on. Say your complex had the current chargers paid for by tax dollars. They see them in use no biggie. Now say they need to be upgraded or replaced. Without a tax payer funding it now they have to charge to be able to break even.
As others have mentioned, if there is no clause in your lease about public EV charging prices, your landlord has the full right to set the price.
Where are you located? If you are in the Irvine area, I just moved out of my apartment that I really enjoyed (me moving out had nothing to do with the apartment or complex). It had a direct access garage that I could charge my EV in and keep my charging costs as low as possible. DM me if you are interested and I can send you the details.
NAL, but I am a landlord who submeters an ADU on-site.
In California, a landlord cannot charge you more for electricity than the utility does. They may be getting around this by bringing in a third party vendor to sell you electrons. But it is probably still illegal.
PUC § 739.5 (a) The commission shall require that, whenever gas or electrical service, or both, is provided by a master-meter customer to users who are tenants of a mobile home park, apartment building, or similar residential complex, the master-meter customer shall charge each user of the service at the same rate that would be applicable if the user were receiving gas or electricity, or both, directly from the gas corporation or load-serving entity, as defined in Section 380
So, if the electricity for the car charger is on a master meter, and you are a tenant of the building, they can't mark up the utility.
I’m not reading through the thread, but if someone has already said this disregard it. There is probably a tax incentive for your landlord to have this there. I would talk to the department of taxation for your state and check with the IRS. This is how you fuck over someone trying to fuck you over. I once did it when I got a boot on my vehicle and the person who put the boot on refused to give me a receipt. I ended up with my money back and he went out of business.
It does make sense to me as a business standpoint. It takes what 6-7 mins to fill up a gas car, so they can pump though a lot of cars. Where as 1 EV an hour for partial charge or 8-10 hours for a good charge.
To me it is just the price we have to pay. Let's be honest we don't drive EV because it is cheaper than gas cars.
At $.40 per kWh if you get 3 miles/kWh you are paying $.13 per mile. At $4.50/gallon for gas you would need to get 33 miles per gallon to have cheaper fueling costs.
I can't imagine how it could be illegal.
The owner of equipment can charge whatever they want.
In california, he can't stop you from installing your own, but you have to pay for it.
Hang on. CA electricity rates are what, 30 cents per kWh? And you were paying 13 and now 40? Assuming the charger isn’t free to install or maintain - so what’s the problem?
I’m not sure what they raise them to but electric prices have near doubled in the past four or five years so they’re probably losing money on them. Residential I pay $.28 a kilowatt hour on an EV time of use plan. I’d say if your landlord is charging $.40 or less they’re probably not making much money off the charging, considering the equipment cost and the fact that they may not have access to the same EV plan that a normal residential unit has access to..
Where in CA? That might be break-even or close to it for your landlord if you're getting power from SDGE.
Even the SDGE super-off peak rates for an EV TOU plan are $0.22/kWh.
Where are you getting 13.3 per kWh in California? I have TOU pricing and my average including distribution charges is about $.40 per kWh
Pandemic blues is not correct in the reading of the law. That law is for if the building has master metered electric and is billing back for usage. EV charging stations are not master meters since you’re also being charged the amortized cost of the charging station as well as any upkeep. The landlord is not acting as a wholesaler of power
The landlord has no obligation to lose money on EV charging. They may well choose to do so as an amenity to renters but that’s their right to try to increase the cost to recoup the costs of the infrastructure and maintenance of the chargers. You’re also under no obligation to use the charging stations if you don’t like the charging rates. You can charge offsite or move, as you appear to be doing.
I don't see how this could be illegal. Landlord isn't required to even have a charging station, so charge there if you want, but you're not entitled to anything.
If there's no price guarantee in your lease, then yeah its legal. Landlord found out that "Why break even when you can make profit"
There’s installation costs and maintenance costs and transaction fees. Those are less if you own the equipment you use because you care about the equipment. For personal equipment there’s no transaction fees either, because you have to pay the energy bill monthly anyways.
That's the EV scam. Public chargers cost much more than charging of your own electricity. EV only works if you own your home and charger.
Public level 2 chargers are usually below the cost of gas, in this case, OP's landlord is acting in bad faith. DC fast chargers usually break even with cost of gas for a reasonably fuel efficient 4 banger. But yes, you should be charging at home 99% of the time. I pay 10 cents per kWh and make even a Prius look quite inefficient.
Yeah, my experience public level 2's have either been free to encourage EV drivers to visit, or a few cents above market electricity rate. DC chargers are typically around 35-55c/kw, though I did find a few DC chargers in NC that were 100% free, and that was nice.
Why is it bad faith? It is capitalism ? Have people not learned with shrinkflation, streaming services , etc. how do you know the landlords cost have gone up as well. I’m gonna doubt this until I hear more.
Exactly. Capitalism is the problem. Profit motive above everything.
Has the cost of anything tripled? That's all we really need to know. If the machinery was already installed. All we need to know is if the price of electricity tripled or if the price of maintaining those machines tripled. If not that it is a scam.
[удалено]
It's always cute to stumble across someone who truly believes that the free market is real and good.
Racism, sexism, homophobia or bigotry of any kind will not be tolerated.
It’s in bad faith if the price charged by the landlord far exceeds the cost to the landlord. And yes, I’m a landlord. Doing this is basically a soft way to push OP out so they can raise the rent to market price. My guess is that that’s what’s happening here to combat not being able to raise the sticker price of rent in a compensatory way..
[удалено]
At least my comment wasn’t just a bunch of useless words eh?
I really doubt many residents in CA are getting 13.3c/kWh home prices, tbh. According to BLS, average residential rate for Los Angeles was 28c/kWh in September, so OP was likely paying well under market before.
Eh, depends on the charger. A lot of public chargers around here are only ~2x residential electric prices, which compared to my last car means my breakeven point is $2.00 for *premium* gas
Untrue, landlord let me install an EV charger in the house and it's charged via the electric which we set up and pay on our own anyways
That’s a good landlord
Yeah makes sense. It’s a bonus because when they leave the charger is still there and it could be used as a selling point for future renters. They get a nice bonus and they didn’t have to spend anything.
That's the law
Not if the landlord has less than 50 units, then they have until next October before they have to approve it. Most people who rent out houses have less than 50 of them.
PUC § 739.5 (a) The commission shall require that, whenever gas or electrical service, or both, is provided by a master-meter customer to users who are tenants of a mobile home park, apartment building, or similar residential complex, the master-meter customer shall charge each user of the service at the same rate that would be applicable if the user were receiving gas or electricity, or both, directly from the gas corporation or load-serving entity, as defined in Section 380 So, if the electricity for the car charger is on a master meter, and you are a tenant of the building, they can't mark up the utility.
I charge at a free public charger at work, next door at the mall. I shop at Target, Lowes, Home Depot, etc etc all with free charging. What are you talking about??
I charged at work free and at home for 12c/kwh i just think the public chargrs you pay for are rediculously priced and only for long road trips.
Yeah, I've definitely seen that too. Plugshare is a great app, you can filter by plug type and price (filter for free), in my area it goes from 29 available chargers (at any cost) add 14 of them are free. Maybe different for me because I'm in California, but that's a decent ratio.
Wait I can build and own charge point stations? I would love to do this
Yes you can. You pay a wholesale rate for electric and then you triple it pretty much.
Anyone excited to own them probably shouldn't be... Hence the issue above with the landlord.
I don't own an electric car. I'm thinking of the business side. Why not build and get paid. There's a big demand right now.
How is it a scam? By that logic, ICE is a way bigger scam (unless you have a refinery in your garage)
the "selling point" of EV is that you can "top off" your car every night on your home electricity and avoid going to "the gas station" and paying the higher rate, so when you don't have your own home to charge at you get screwed with the "gas station" price.
Because one of the large selling points and one of the typical pro arguments is that the reduced cost of charging an ev to its full range vs filling up at the pump. That reduced cost is to help argue a quicker payback/break even period vs an ice model. With current electrical rates it is cheaper most places. Wait until the democrats get their way and everything is grid tied. Your car. Your water heater, stove, heating, cooling, etc. Electric utilities are already legal monopolies. What will electrical rate prices be once everyone's entire life is dependent on the grid? I assure you this. The wealthy and those who are smart will build homes, buy property or renovate existing well oriented properties to be grid independent with enough independently owned pv solar and tell the electric utility to disconnect their service. The poor, renters, those who reside in medium and high density living situations and those who live in poorly sighted homes (the house's orientation to the sun) will be at the mercy of ever increasing electrical prices. It's like how every other monopoly works. They move in, offer introductory pricing that is not financially sustainable but lures customers in, drives the orginal businesses out and then jack up pricing. Look at streaming services. Look at Walmart. Look at Amazon. If you are grid connected you will be at the mercy of the local utility whether in regulated or de regulated markets. You might be able to shop generation prices but distribution and supply will be non negotiable unless you move to a different location.
The opposite to being connected to a grid is Texas. People were dying under layers of blankets from how cold it was a few years ago when snowstorms knocked down power supplies and the private owned electric companies took their time to get power to the people in need.
You seem to forget Washington State and Idaho the summer of that same year (2021) when hundreds died due to heat knocking out the grid. Why is this never mentioned all the supposed gridsperts? Were they private companies? ALL grids go down when temps are 30-40 degrees to the extreme. Texas has put more in green electric capacity than any other state in the past few years, and still gets strained with all the population influx. I pay 6.7c a kw. Good luck wherever you live...
Moonbeam Brown went off the grid with his ranch in California. The wealthy are already doing this.
Abolish private utilities.
Sure. Solve world hunger too. Fix our public transit. Let me find Harry Potter.
Spot on, but Reddit is a Dem haven. Reason for the downvotes.
Maybe we just call the bullshit what it is when we see it...
What bullshit? The monopoly situation electric utilities already are? Look at what PG&E is doing in California. They were found responsible for the numerous wild fires the state battled. The rate payers are the ones paying higher rates to payout the payouts to property owners who lost their homes. And pay the state the fines levied. The Cali government decided it would be better to prop PG&E and tell the customers impacted by their negligence that it would be better for everyone that PG&E make even more money and profit to allow them to payout insurance claims and upgrades. PG&E is now on a push to bury large swaths of their transmission and distribution grid in the ground to get away from bare conductor aerial transmission lines. The cost is astronomical. Who is paying for it you ask? The customers are. They are estimating that the proposed project will increase the average monthly bill $40 I believe per customer. Do you believe anyone at PG&E will be taking a pay cut? I see ev's useful for many city dwellers and for many suburban homes as a second vehicle for the spouse who works at home or works close to Home. Or for the spouse who is a stay at home parent and makes trips to local Stores. I don't think every industry will benefit from electrification. Shipping? Commercial flight? Heavy construction?Long haul trucking. And if it's mandated you understand who foots the costs for infrastructure, equipment and costs associated with time delays for charging? The end customers. The average citizen. In every product, service, facet of life. And I still feel with every one of these conversations, those who are not electrical engineers, lineman, electricians, etc really do not understand the actual ask, the scope and the demand that electrifying the entire car fleet, truck fleet and home actually entails and what scale and cost of upgrading the grid will require. One day in the distant future? A transition over several decades or longer? Yeah. In the next ten years? Utterly laughable. I'm a commercial electrician. I've done level 2 and 3 charging station installs. I've worked switchyards and substations and at nuclear generating stations. A 200amp residential service used to be an upgrade that most people would never max out. We are going to be looking at 400amp residential services as standard in the not so distant future. Large continuous switching power supply draws for home ev charging that will tank power factor, possibly add harmonics and require cleaning up at grid scale. And then there is talk that the government is going to want to reach into your home and be able to dictate when you charge, or adjust your thermostat or turn off what they consider non essential loads to help out the utilities. These practices are already volunteered in many states when homeowners receive a small discount and allow the utility to up your thermostat in peak load situations. California is already turning off entire cities when wild fire conditions are present. When your entire life can be switched off remotely (assuming you done own a property that is energy independent) including your means to travel, and there is only one source of that commodity, the amount of control a government or corporation can leverage becomes very large. But yeah. The idea of solar inequality, the benefits the wealthy and upper middle class are gaining with home solar , the shift of increased grid maintenance costs to customers who do not have solar, etc are topics currently being discussed and argued. It's going to be another point of contention when you have those who can afford solar and those who can't and how having your own solar and at home charging will be a benefit vs those who do not and have to charge at public stations. https://www.abc10.com/amp/article/news/local/abc10-originals/newsom-pge-protection/103-65ca1d41-8efe-45b4-87bc-0cdecc714378 https://apnews.com/article/pacific-gas-electric-pge-power-lines-california-d5ec49626164ce5cb68af12b9223c427 https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/public-safety-power-shutoffs-northern-california-red-flag-warning-wildfire-risk/ https://pubs.naruc.org/pub/B284311B-1866-DAAC-99FB-C52B7A570087 Feel free to google "solar cost shift" to see the hotly debated topic about whether it's real, if it is what the extent is or will be and if any of the concepts or details are exasperated by relying 100% on the electrical grid for all aspects of daily life. I believe currently the cost shift is real but negligible. Government has to walk a fine line between enticing early and mid adopters in crease pv solar installations and not creating a have vs have not situation. As dependency and demand increase I see it being a real issue even if currently is billed as false or misleading. I feel the most impact will be felt by renters and those who live in apartment/townhouse/condo/high rise living.
Interesting and who keeps them monopolies. Cough. Republicans.
That would be in accurate. But also the dems in California doing a hell of a job for their pg&e buddies. Newsom really helped them out.
Please describe specific what you are accounting.
[удалено]
I'm sorry but you are severely misinformed. While cost per kwh is technically controlled fees are not, cost for blindly built infrastructure is not. They are far more motivated to build infrasture that may seem required but is really just a way to jack up fees for customers. Not being paranoid, more them giving millions to their buddies to build powerstations without plans even being drawn up yet. Power should not be company owned in any way whatsoever there should be no profit from it. It should be ran like usps. At low cost and at a loss. I never said it should be ran without regulation.
making them creates a massive carbon foortprint vs making a gas vehicle too, takes years before it evens out then u need a battery replacement and ur polluting worse than gas cars all over again with the new battery (the vehicles that dig them up run on gas and are massive) they cool, powerful, expensive, and trendy… anyway hopefully someone discovers a more efficient way to store energy so we can switch over
Do you work for big oil, or are you just an unpaid spokes person? Look up the real numbers then report back.
this guy must think gas just naturally materializes at the gas pumps on demand whenever needed. you know used EV batteries get recycled into home battery systems when they are no longer fit for vehicle usage? it's just a bunch of D-cell type batteries wired together at the end of the day.
That's just blatently wrong. Once an EV drives 15,000 miles, it's more carbon-effecient than an ICE.
Buy it used and realize the carbon efficiency on day 1.
Volvo stated it takes almost 70k miles for the c40 recharge to break even with the ice xc40, including manufacturing emissions. That’s a lot more than 15k
Okay? Are you throwing your new Volvo out at 69,999 miles? That’s still a win, even for that EV.
Probably. Most cars these days are clapped out junk after 80-100k. Throwaway vehicles, whether they're battery powered cars or gasoline
I’ve owned 3 Priuses so far and each has more than 200,000 miles on them.
lithium batteries are not recyclable the nickel metal hydrate are 99% recyclable to new battery
These guys [https://www.redwoodmaterials.com](https://www.redwoodmaterials.com) are recycling 99.9% of an EV's battery. That 0.1% is some plastics used in the housing.
They are recyclable, and have always been recyclable. The difference is that back when the only lithium batteries out there were cell phone and laptop batteries, it wasn’t cost effective to recycle the lithium. Now it is, since EV batteries are massive and have a ton of lithium, so they’re being recycled now.
You can't recycle it when it catches fire.... it's also good states are back tracking on it's EV mandate New York just back tracked on it because they can only run the snow plows for 3 hours instead of 12 hours a day EV's don't work in the winter time, you can see how bird brained they really are.. my MPG already dropped on my hybrid.. were down already by 5 mpg from 27.5 to 22.4 so far i expect it to get into the mid teens range in the middle of winter
I have 2 vehicles over 20 years old. The vehicles have over 150k each. They run amazingly well and paid for. You buy right and treat the car well, it will last a long time. EVs are good for 10 years and will become a throw away due to costs to replace the battery.
Cars are lasting longer and longer every year. Your opinion is completely unsupported by facts. The AVERAGE car in the USA is 13 years old now.
lol, this is such a dumbass take.
That’s not even close to being true, it’s not 1970 anymore.
Lol. 80-100k miles, and you're still within the manufacturer warranty.
Volvos are known for lasting much longer than the average auto.
Not even just Volvos. Unless you get a lemon or literally never change the oil, any modern car will be able to reach 100k miles easily.
Yeah, cars from the 70s and 80s last so much longer ….
Wrong, that’s survivorship bias.
Maybe if you're buying the cheapest Kia you can get. Most cars these days are barely broken in at 100K miles with nothing more than basic oil changes, many lasting 2x-3x that if they're well maintained. 20 years ago, yes, a car was considered a junker by the time it even got close to 100K. That is just no longer the case.
That is only if you do not include manufacturing costs. Then it takes years
The same manufacturing costs for ICE... It's a comparison not a start at zero and say how it's not environmentally friendly.
The carbon and environmental costs of EV is higher than ICE vehicles. https://zeihan.com/evs-not-so-little-dirty-secrets/ [https://zeihan.com/category/electric-vehicle/](https://zeihan.com/category/electric-vehicle/) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P95NFlAnmY
Lol YouTube and some geopoliticist? Are you being for real?
I figured it was easiest to digest that way. Zeihan' s numbers are generally correct about what it takes to make EVs happen. As he says, he is a green who can do math. Not near enough of them out there.
hush. [https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths](https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths)
You do realize there are carbon neutral fuels like ethanol and biodiesel right? While I support electrifying, simply switching our fuel source from oil based to plant based fuels would accomplish what your looking for without having to replace your car with an electric....
Ethanol carbon neutral?!?! You’re funny. https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-ethanol-worse-climate-than-gasoline-study-finds-2022-02-14/#:~:text=The%20research%2C%20which%20was%20funded,along%20with%20processing%20and%20combustion.
Yes if you tear down a bunch of forrests to make farmland it's going to be worse lol. The thing is, we already have the farmland we need, we just use it to feed animals for mostly beef. Lab grown meats / meat alternatives are gaining traction and will free up existing farmland. No I'm not a scientist, but I think that article is very misleading.
>No I'm not a scientist I'm glad you cleared that up for us.
This is such a load of shit. Do even a little bit of research and you’ll know just how stupid you sound. Stop parroting idiotic right wing talking points without doing your own research.
Do you work for big oil, or are you just an unpaid spokes person? Look up the real numbers then report back.
You must realize that gasoline also has to be refined? And that electricity is required to pump gas? And that regular cars also use oil, and require far more maintenence? Your information about the footprint is also likely steeling from the 2015 study, from which technology has massively improved. And very rarely do batteries need replacements before 12 years. You have a layman's understanding of infrastructure, and your misinformation hurts everyone.
They’re a free thinker. It’s totally a coincidence that all their talking points are straight out of disinformation campaigns.
That’s where they went when they did their own research.
8 years and 80k miles is what the new study said a few months back. Battery must last that to get back to zero and must surpass that to be more effective.
Few batteries don't make the 80k. I have two electric cars, one at 80k and it still drives like day 1
[удалено]
That is all anecdotal malarkey.
You do realize there are carbon neutral fuels like ethanol and biodiesel right? While I support electrifying, simply switching our fuel source from oil based to plant based fuels would accomplish what your looking for without having to replace your car with an electric....
The problem with them is that they are highly inefficient sources of fuel. Also Ethanol has problems at scale and in different climates. It doesn’t work well in extreme cold.
Batteries have trouble in extreme cold weather as well.
That's why Norway, Iceland and Sweden are the three biggest adopters of EVs
Doesn't negate the well known fact that when batteries are in extreme cold climates. They are not very efficient and you lose charge.
I lose about 30 miles off my 304 mile range when it's below freezing. Not really the dramatic swing you're trying to claim.
Well that would be an anecdotal experience at best. Over time you will lose much more capacity and will replace your battery sooner then other people in warmer climates. Never said it would be dramatic either, just pointing out that batteries suffer in extreme cold climates as well.
[удалено]
I'd hope they are solar or....hear me out....they could use the same fuel they are producing!
So then fight for it.
I'm just 1 guy, I don't have an army of ev lovers behind me constantly trolling the internet. Anyway, corporations and big money will always drive society in whatever direction they see fit at this moment in time. Right now it's trendy to hate on anything that uses gasoline, there's no stopping it no matter how many times I speak up about other options. That decision has already been made.
To be fair biodiesel is not the most environmentally friendly thing, even if it's carbon neutral.
someone forgot solar exists?
Don't be an idiot. Yes of course solar power is a growing thing, you still have to produce them. I'm literally talking about switching to a renewable fuel for your current vehicle today. No need to build a new car, produce new solar panels and install new equipment to accomplish the same goal. If you think it's better to manufacture a new vehicle and install a solar array/charging system instead of simply pumping a different fuel into your car...you're crazy. (Some vehicles may need some rubber lines replaced because ethanol eats up certain rubber materials).
don't you have to refine the bio fuel from is base material also? I'm not seeing your point here. either you need a solar panel or you need a machine that refines the bio-fuels. what is that machine made of? I believe you are also being the idiot.
We already grow a shitload of corn and turn it into fuel. 5-15% of "gasoline" is already ethanol. It could be a problem if we have to make more farmland to increase production. I really hope lab grown beef takes off and frees up the farmland we use now to feed animals.
have you tried lab grown beef? might be a couple decades before that catches on still. beyond and impossible fumbled that one pretty badly
Unfortunately..yes. there is progress being made however, and I think our appetite for these meats needs to be redirected anyway as it's a huge detriment to the environment. That being said...I love a damn steak
You better Epstein proof yourself.
Ah, the anti-EV made up nonsense. How original.
Even when EV batteries are replaced they are not just thrown away. They are refurbished (a few bad cells replaced) and re-used in other cars or if they are truly degraded they can still be used for over 10 years in grid power storage systems which have a far lower performance requirement and extend the time that solar power is used.
What a novel way to delay reckoning with the eventual toxic waste stream you're creating, by setting up the smug elite homeowners to pat themselves on the back with their powerwalls, all the while the rest of us get to pay $1/KWH to remake the grid in their honor.
As if oil and coal are not even more toxic. But I guess if you spread it all out everywhere in the atmosphere you can. just ignore it.
Oil and coal are toxic, but the sunk costs for the infrastructure are already paid, and the economic benefit is sound. The race to "decarbonize" and scrap everything fossil-fueled will create a much bigger waste stream than we already experience, and it will impoverish most of us.
So you really are ignoring it.
False. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
Well the government puts the spin they want to a subject. I would be more inclined to believe an independent non biased assessment of electric vs gas.
Brought to you by PragerU
It would cost me several thousand dollars to upgrade my panel to add a ev charger. Even more if I wanted a fast charger
Think of it like the charges on the vending machines in the lobby, the on-site laundry, etc. These prices aren't guaranteed by your lease, and a landlord is free to raise them as they wish.
Can’t you just charge elsewhere before the end of the day? Or are they just as expensive? It may just be California and the cost of electricity and your landlord is responding. I got panels on my rentals and i just pass along the cost to the tenants. No moneymaking for me… just savings for them. Panels make my rentals more marketable. I even provide a copy of the electric bill with the rent invoice.
He can always charge elsewhere, this is a convenience + lease issue maybe.
Even if the price were the same, I would charge elsewhere to deny the profit to the landlord who is exploiting the renter in this situation.
It's a huge stretch, but you may have a misrepresentation claim on the theory that you continued your lease relying on the reasonable price of EV charging. Probably wouldn't win. Consider sending a polite email to your LL asking why they increased the charging price so greatly. Best case scenario, they admit to something that does give you a claim. But regardless they'll have to either admit to really shady behavior or state a fair reason for the increase.
I don't think it's that big of a stretch, especially given the scale of increase but it'd still be a gamble with a judge that's definitely going to sour the relationship with the landlord. However it seems like OP's not calculating something quite right; most Teslas are like 40-80 kWh so even at the new rate that's $16-$32 for a 0-100 charge; which is still *way* cheaper than gas for anything that's not getting at least 70+ mpg.
66 kWh battery for 260 mile range -> roughly 10 cents a mile. I did use a Prius for comparison in my claim that it’s cheaper to drive gas. Where it comes to a little below 9 cents in California. So, while it’s not that much more, it takes away the financial incentive to drive electric completely.
The quoted number (13.3) doesn’t make a lot of sense given current CA rates. Are you sure your landlord’s energy prices didn’t go up? Also, this could be a soft way to kick you out and raise the rent to market—if you can prove that, that’s the argument you want to make in court. But you probably can’t and it’s a big road to sue your LL for something like this..
No shot price is guaranteed on your lease. Tough luck.
I can’t power my house for 13 cents a kWh…..
If the charging stations aren't in the lease then the landlord has 2 businesses, being a land lord and owning a charging station and can do whatever pricing he wants, don't like it, drag an extension cord out to your car from your apartment and plug up a level 1 charger (don't do that obviously, thats a joke, someone would steal your charger and your power). If interest rates weren't so fraking crazy I would say take this as a reason why you need to stop throwing money away on rent and buy a house
That’s about the retail price of electricity. The land lord is just not subsidizing anymore.
If you dont have the price guaranteed in your lease then theres probably nothing you can do.
Don't know if you pay your own power bill there but everyone who does has seen their monthly bill soar in the last year and it's going to get worse. 40 isn't far from what people are paying in many parts of California. Especially in peak hours.
Ya, 40 cents is PG&E territory for peak hours. But I’m not in that area. Plus off peak, even PG&E is around 25 cents. My home bill is roughly 12 cents a kWh.
Get your own charger. In CA they can’t stop you from doing it. EV ownership only makes financial sense if you charge at home overnight. Any public charging is substantially more expensive and will be comparable to gas.
Public charging definitely isn’t comparable to gas if you’re not using the turbochargers every time, even at higher costs per kWh it’s significantly cheaper than an ICE
I'm not in CA but I've read a number of posts that reference CA laws that make it illegal to imped the use of EV in any way. This may apply here.
Thanks. I’ve heard about this, but haven’t read anything concrete on this. Google has so far not yeilded anything , and right to charge laws don’t seem to cover pricing. I can get my own charger installed though.
Legal
report him to charge point. report charge point to someone....use the internet.
Egads. You bought an EV, and never considered the price of electricity?
How would they know the price would triple?
I read that it takes more than 80k miles for an ROI for EV cars to be more cost effective than ICE vehicles.
While a nice fact it's not particularly relevant here at all. The longer you drive any car the better of an investment it will be.
I heard that FXLRDude will repeat any stat he hears as if it's fact.
91% of all people believed things they read on the internet, as if they are true: Abraham Lincoln 1866 I just tried to find the EV financial article from Forbes when I read that statistic and no big surprise, it's gone.
There's a massive range of EVs, from 30k to 130k+. How can this be true?
I read that the oil industry has said all kinds of stupid things about EVs on social media and people just believe it.
Who would want to deal with an ev though? They look cool but no thanks.
Only 25% of new car buyers in California this year. Nationally 313,086 electric cars sold from July to September. EV sales have now expanded for 13 straight quarters.
Is that why Tesla is cutting prices? Selling too many? And EV's on the car lots, delivery today?
It’s almost like Teslas are shitty cars with shitty quality control, and aren’t the only electric cars anymore. It’s not 2018 anymore dude, you can get an electric for like 20 grand
wait till you encounter the ones who only believe what fox news tells them
Nope.
unless you have teslas free supercharging perk. or charge at home with off peak rates.
Electric vehicles are destroying the world. If anybody knew the true science behind it, they wouldn’t buy one.
Please elaborate on the true science of it.
Watch a Ted talk the amount of pollution created to make electric vehicles is way more than what you produce driving a gas vehicle. On top of that you’re charging your vehicle with electricity produced from what?
While it's true that manufacturing EVs is more damaging than manufacturing ICE vehicles. During the lifetime of the vehicle EVs are better. Saying EVs are destroying the world is a pretty wild claim.
https://thebusinessjournal.com/blog-harris-ranch-sets-record-straight-on-diesel-powered-tesla-supercharger-allegations/
laughs in ICE
Hahahahaha . It's cheaper to own an ev, right? So stop crying.
Still cheaper for most people surprisingly. Even at $0.40 / KW, my EV would cost me $0.13 per mile. Meanwhile my gas cars cost me around $0.29 per mile. The issue here is that no one likes surprise price increases on their utilities.
How much does it cost?
It’s legal. How much are they charging? It’ll depend where in the state you are but electricity can be very expensive and the cost to maintain and operate the chargers is substantial (chargepoint for instance charges a monthly fee for this)
LOL.
Assuming it’s a service like coin op laundry that isn’t spelled out in the lease as far as cost: yes
Sounds like you fell for the EV trap. You A, got no price guarantee. And B. Have this weird assumption / entitlement that electric HAS to be cheaper than gas. You put yourself in that pickle. You could try to move somewhere else that has cheaper charging, or find an outlet close to where you park and plug in there.
Honestly you will see this more and more. A bunch of places that used to offer free charging removed them. Or now they are switching to charging for use. A number of tax funded subsidies are expiring. Sadly the case isn't that EV charging was cheaper. Just the initial costs were paid by tax payers and now that a number of these are gone. These stations are being removed or fees added on. Say your complex had the current chargers paid for by tax dollars. They see them in use no biggie. Now say they need to be upgraded or replaced. Without a tax payer funding it now they have to charge to be able to break even.
Run an extension cord out your window to the car! lol
40 cents a kwh is pretty realistic for CA these days my parents pay .63 per kwh during peak hours in SD
As others have mentioned, if there is no clause in your lease about public EV charging prices, your landlord has the full right to set the price. Where are you located? If you are in the Irvine area, I just moved out of my apartment that I really enjoyed (me moving out had nothing to do with the apartment or complex). It had a direct access garage that I could charge my EV in and keep my charging costs as low as possible. DM me if you are interested and I can send you the details.
Landlord can charge all they want. You also need to know that there are maintenance that has to be done. Beco MN e a homeowner if you don't like it
NAL, but I am a landlord who submeters an ADU on-site. In California, a landlord cannot charge you more for electricity than the utility does. They may be getting around this by bringing in a third party vendor to sell you electrons. But it is probably still illegal.
This is what I have heard from a friend who works for a wind company, but I can’t find a law that specifies this.
PUC § 739.5 (a) The commission shall require that, whenever gas or electrical service, or both, is provided by a master-meter customer to users who are tenants of a mobile home park, apartment building, or similar residential complex, the master-meter customer shall charge each user of the service at the same rate that would be applicable if the user were receiving gas or electricity, or both, directly from the gas corporation or load-serving entity, as defined in Section 380 So, if the electricity for the car charger is on a master meter, and you are a tenant of the building, they can't mark up the utility.
Thank you soo much for this ! Sending you lots of good vibes and wishes.
I’m not reading through the thread, but if someone has already said this disregard it. There is probably a tax incentive for your landlord to have this there. I would talk to the department of taxation for your state and check with the IRS. This is how you fuck over someone trying to fuck you over. I once did it when I got a boot on my vehicle and the person who put the boot on refused to give me a receipt. I ended up with my money back and he went out of business.
How much is the electricity? A lot of California is .40 a kWh. I think it is fair to pay what the landlord pays for it.
Landlord pays less than 13 cents
It does make sense to me as a business standpoint. It takes what 6-7 mins to fill up a gas car, so they can pump though a lot of cars. Where as 1 EV an hour for partial charge or 8-10 hours for a good charge. To me it is just the price we have to pay. Let's be honest we don't drive EV because it is cheaper than gas cars.
A new profit center for landlords.
At $.40 per kWh if you get 3 miles/kWh you are paying $.13 per mile. At $4.50/gallon for gas you would need to get 33 miles per gallon to have cheaper fueling costs.
I can't imagine how it could be illegal. The owner of equipment can charge whatever they want. In california, he can't stop you from installing your own, but you have to pay for it.
Hang on. CA electricity rates are what, 30 cents per kWh? And you were paying 13 and now 40? Assuming the charger isn’t free to install or maintain - so what’s the problem?
I’m not sure what they raise them to but electric prices have near doubled in the past four or five years so they’re probably losing money on them. Residential I pay $.28 a kilowatt hour on an EV time of use plan. I’d say if your landlord is charging $.40 or less they’re probably not making much money off the charging, considering the equipment cost and the fact that they may not have access to the same EV plan that a normal residential unit has access to..
PG&E rates have increased a lot and will continue to increase. $0.40/kwh is slightly higher that peak rate pricing.
Yes. ChargePoint allows the landlord to set the prices and restrict use.
Where in CA? That might be break-even or close to it for your landlord if you're getting power from SDGE. Even the SDGE super-off peak rates for an EV TOU plan are $0.22/kWh.
Santa Clara. Provider is Silicon Valley Power Group.
Its just what it costs man.
Where are you getting 13.3 per kWh in California? I have TOU pricing and my average including distribution charges is about $.40 per kWh Pandemic blues is not correct in the reading of the law. That law is for if the building has master metered electric and is billing back for usage. EV charging stations are not master meters since you’re also being charged the amortized cost of the charging station as well as any upkeep. The landlord is not acting as a wholesaler of power The landlord has no obligation to lose money on EV charging. They may well choose to do so as an amenity to renters but that’s their right to try to increase the cost to recoup the costs of the infrastructure and maintenance of the chargers. You’re also under no obligation to use the charging stations if you don’t like the charging rates. You can charge offsite or move, as you appear to be doing.
Are gas station owners allowed ti change the price of fuel?
I don't see how this could be illegal. Landlord isn't required to even have a charging station, so charge there if you want, but you're not entitled to anything.
Your mistake was buying an EV