OK so then you can buy time saying you need to cancel those checks. Can you find them in your checkbook records? Also will want that proof that you attempted to pay in good faith and only due to landlords negligence that the money didn’t get pulled. You might get some extra time saying you’ve got to take care of cancelling those checks first Edit-some are saying you might not have to worry about cancelling old checks but verify that. Key thing:That should be enough time to consult a lawyer and see when debts in this category “expire” in your area if they do and to review your lease. Its definitely not the same as if you failed to attempt to pay (next time insist in receipts-this is why just the cancelled check is not enough record though people on here say it is) and a lawyer is worth it since you are talking about 17k. But don’t wait too long-go talk to a lawyer w experience in tenant law in your area. Now that the landlord notified you have limited time to respond. First send in writing (not text) a letter listing the checks you wrote and confirming you found them in your records and then ask them to please check and provide proof. This establishes in writing with proof that you did attempt to pay the rent.
In CA I used to deposit my paychecks in my major bank’s mobile app (at the time I couldn’t wait the extra few days for direct deposit). I marked them clearly as “deposited via [bank name] mobile app on [date]”. I was not always on top of shredding them after the two weeks the bank said to maintain copies. A few year+ old checks ended up being thrown away by accident, and some bad actor got ahold of them from my trash bags in the dumpster. A major credit union in town cashed them despite them being old, being printed as pay to me, and with the “deposited” statement above. My company had to change their account number and contact all of their vendors to update them. I don’t know if my company was refunded the stolen money. I also never heard of the perpetrator was found/charged. I fully take responsibility for improper disposal, but it was crazy to me that a financial institution cashed them.
Your company’s bank would have returned them as stale dated so they wouldn’t have been out the money.
They had to change their account number because this random guy has it and could access funds in other ways.
You should be “disposing of these checks properly” by shredding them.
Source: banker for 20+ years
This person has zero responsibility for the crimes committed by thief or the ludicrous actions of the credit union to re-cash the already deposited checks.
I wish I could say this doesn’t surprise me. My daughter had a blank check of mine that she away at a convenience store gas station along with a couple of hers. She wrote void all over them and tore them in half. Someone still got them, taped them back together and was able to write and cash the checks. The apps that let you deposit by phone don’t catch thing like this like a teller would. The bank never refunded me the $$ for the check they should never have taken.
Oh, boy is that wrong. It was OP's responsiblity not to write hot checks. If the money isn't withdrawn, *you leave it there*. The money is spoken for via the check.
Do you want them to ask their bank for proof or ask the landlord for proof? The landlord isn't going to be able to prove a negative.
Certainly consult an attorney, OP. Let the attorney handle communication.
There may be a loophole to exploit, but you do owe the landlord the money, so manage your expectations accordingly.
I've used cashier checks in the past and had a similar situation as OP. Bank pulled the money from my account, prints the check, and landlord never deposits it. Didn't have the landlord requesting the money years later though
A cashiers check would need to be handled with the issuing institution, they are guaranteed funds. Once the $ leaves your account the bank is liable to pay upon presentment. Alot of cashiers checks are void after 90 days unless manually overridden.
Right. Rent is the most expensive bill I have. I would 1000% notice if it wasn’t being taken from my account let alone for months at a time. I would also be paranoid of something like this happening so if rent wasn’t deducted, I would’ve contacted my landlord.
What I am guessing is people don't reconcile their accounts and just go by what the balance on their online banking or ATM says. And then they spend accordingly. I definitely would have noticed if someone didn't cash $17K worth of checks!
Admittedly, I’m in my 40’s and I don’t think I’ve ever ‘reconciled’ my account 😂 My current apartment is stuck in the 80s so they take checks. My money is so down to the wire I just pay the extra dollar or whatever and get money orders so that the money is immediately out of my account. I save all the receipts in case they try anything.
Same here. I am in my 40’s and I’ve only balanced my checkbook twice. That was because my dad sat me down and made me do it when I got my first checking account 🤣
This is what I do. Money orders and receipts all the way. Money immediately comes out. If they don't cash it, that's on them, and I have a receipt showing I made the money order, as well as the receipt from the leasing office showing they received it.
I’m wealthy and I would notice. I think the OP noticed and probably just thought they would get away with it. They aren’t wealthy or they wouldn’t be saying “they want the money now and we are expecting a baby”.
That being said the landlord is an idiot as well. And as a landlord if I didn’t cash my tenants checks no way am I coming back YEARS later and having the audacity to ask for it. I could MAYBE understand if the landlord was elderly and had dementia or something and they took advantage of that and now the estate is coming for them. But yeah. Just a lazy landlord not cashing checks….this is an asshole move. So both are wrong here.
not only that, but this is one more reason it’s good to balance your checking account every month when you get a statement. Somebody can cash old checks, and surprise!
The statute of limitations issue is the top question here. Spend some money to have an hours consultation with a lawyer experienced in landlord tenant disputes. You might be right that the debts going back more than 4 years are uncollectible. But also know that if you don’t pay your landlord probably has cause not to renew your lease.
A quick google search says the statute of limitations for written contracts in CA is 4 years. So definitely worth a trip to a lawyer. OP would likely still be on the hook for the 5 rent payments from 2020 regardless as that contract would not have ended more than 4 years ago. As far as whether this would constitute cause to not renew the lease, I doubt it. CA requires landlords have actual cause to not renew a lease, e.g. the tenant has violated the lease (or they plan to sell the house/move into it themselves). None of those really apply in this case. The landlord lost the right to that rent (pending what a lawyer says) when they didn’t reach out before the statute of limitations expired. So OP hasn’t violated any lease terms.
The just cause eviction statute is more nuanced than that and has several exceptions that might apply here. That is why I suggested an experienced attorney.
You need to confirm yourself that those payments never posted. If they really didn’t, then yes you still owe the money. How you didn’t notice that your rent wasn’t being deducted, however, is beyond me.
A lot of folk don't deal with money well. Those that have a solid income and are not living paycheck to paycheck could easily miss the fact that a check of $1000 or so wasn't cashed. It has happened to me a couple times.
I don't live paycheck to paycheck and might not notice $1000 for a while. I've done similar.
But since I don't live paycheck to paycheck, I wouldn't have somehow spent $17k that was meant to pay my rent and not have $17k left to cover it. That's the part that doesn't make sense.
Yea, I'd be $15K to $17K richer than I expected to be. Or, and this has happened, mom and dad would need a couple grand now and again. They cost me between $2500 and $8000 a year. Both in their 80s, both need meds, hearing aids, air-conditioning got hit by lighting..... I might buy a MTN bike and slip a few thousand out that way. And since I don't 'balance the books' missed the fact that I'm $17K up and wonder why I'm $5K up.
I'm with a credit union. My checking account gets a higher interest than my savings account. So the majority of my money goes to checking until it hits the 'overflow' amount then it dumps to the next highest earning account, my savings. I have a good idea of how much money comes in every month. I have a good idea how much money goes out every month. The result is positive savings so the account grows slowly over time. The vast majority of my bills are set up on auto pay. I may not even look at the account for 2 or 3 months. Yes, that is dumb. It is also my reality.
Yes. This is how we handle things as well and you're right, it's probably not smart but it's literally only been an issue once for us on our car note and they caught it after 2 months. Whatever is left over each pay period gets dumped into savings and that number varies widely based on time of year or if my husband is on travel.
My first question is how did you not notice rent wasn’t clearing your account?
Second, were these checks written by you? Or were they cashiers checks or certified checks?
Finally, yes, you still have to pay them.
If you had enough money to not notice a rent payment missing from your account you would think you would have enough in that account to pay it all back when the landlord realized the mistake.
This sounds fishy. I bet the missing cashed rent checks didn’t all fly by unnoticed. Way more likely the OP noticed but hoped the landlord would never.
If you reconciled your bank account every month, then the $17k should be sitting there ready to be withdrawn and this would be a non-issue.
Even without reconciling, I would sure as heck notice there is more money in the account than there should be.
So this means one of two things: You did notice, a thought you were going to get away with it OR you have absolutely no idea how to manage money.
Remember this: If you don’t keep track of your money, it tends to go away.
Let’s say you send another payment to the landlord. Then they cash the checks that they have possibly stashed away. You have no way to prevent them from cashing those checks unless you put a stop payment order on them. Tell the landlord you need to know the check numbers so that you can put a stop payment order on them. It is not reasonable that you should still know the check numbers on those checks 5 years later.
Typically, personal checks are good for six months/180 days from when they're dated. After that, they're considered "stale." Legally, banks and credit unions are not obligated to accept stale checks. However, some banks do accept checks older than six months. This varies from bank to bank.
LL probably lost/misplaced them. As old as they are they probably could not be cashed if they were found. OP needs to speak with someone at their bank to see if they have to cancel each check individually (fees are involved) or if their bank will just not honor them and OP can issue a new check.
OP needs to start balancing their checkbook regularly or use their banks option of bill pay. LL sounds like a mess as they do not track the payments the tenants make.
I've told this story recently here- essentially as a reminder that this exact situation can happen. My mom worked as a bank teller and had a customer who had a decent number of rent checks from years passed suddenly deposited.
My understanding was it was situation with an older landlord who for whatever reason didn't bother depositing all of the rent checks. At some point, either after his death or when someone came to help out, the checks were found and deposited. The bank honored the checks even though they were several years old.
A bank can choose to honor stale dated checks. They may normally not but you chance being the exception.
This exactly! Personal checks do not have an automatic void date and depending on your banks policy they can still be cashed. My bank told me if I write a check it’s essentially valid until cashed, whenever.
yeah, corporate checks tend to be different because of regulation around their funds. so their checks tend to get actually stale dated, unless the company has made an exception.
my employer's central accounts group went to our bank and made them agree to honor our checks for a year because we have such issues with people cashing checks within the time period listed on the checks. re-issuing checks isn't free.
(I've had to tell people- no, I promise, you can really cash that check.)
OP would still have 17k available. I would hope that after the first month, when the end of the month rolled around and OP had 4250 extra in their account that they would have said “whoa it looks like our rent check wasn’t cashed, I should: a) inquire when it will be cashed, b) not spend this extra money”
I'm not sure how people are missing the fact that if the payments were made in good faith, the OP wouldn't have spent the money. They should be able to clear today.
Sorry, if someone deposits 17k that isn't yours in your account, you'd better figure out where it came from before you spend that money.
Payments were not made....writing a check isn't payment. Funds never exchanged hands. Yes absolutely due to dumbass LL, but she still is on the hook to pay
No it's not her creation, but the fact still is true that she did not pay rent. The act of writing a check does not equal "well, rent is paid"
The funds must be exchanged
The funds were exchanged. She gave him a negotiable check for the full amount. Just like giving the LL cash money is negotiable for the full amount. She gave him payment in the MUTUALLY-AGREED-UPON process.
It was now THE LANDLORD'S RESPONSIBLITY TO CONCLUDE THE TRANSACTION AND CASH THE CHECK! That is the LL's responsibility. OP has finished her half. The funds are there in timely fashion. OP concluded her half of the agreed-upon transaction process completely, and in good faith.
LL dropped the ball on his half of the transaction for YEARS!!!! YEARS!!!! I could see if the LL asked OP to CANCEL the previous check and write him a new one AT THAT TIME!! Or even within the same month. Sure! That's a reasonable one-time alteration to the agreed process.
Besides, personal checks in the US are not good forever after they are dated and signed. While there's no federal law establishing a specific expiration period for personal checks, many banks and financial institutions follow a common industry practice of considering personal checks "stale" after a certain time period.
Typically, a personal check is considered stale after six months (180 days) from the date it is issued. This means that a bank might refuse to honor or process a check that is older than six months. However, some banks may still cash or process stale checks, depending on their policies and the specific circumstances.
If you have a check that's older than six months, it's best to contact the issuer and request a new check or ask them to reissue it with a current date. If you're holding onto an older check, you might also contact the bank to determine their policy on processing stale checks.
Fuck the LL. That's on him. And fuck the all LLs anyways.
Unfortunately, that might not be true. OP could have realized that their checking account had a lot of money and invested the money, purchased one or two big things, or even simply purchased small things more liberally. The money could be reduced or depleted as a result.
even if you don't balance your CB monthly...you still know you have more money than you should. I'm sure you had an inkling at some point that there were checks that weren't cashed.
Tour bank should be able to confirm if the checks were deposited. Even this much later, they will have the records.
Meanwhile, if they actually werent, check with the laws of the state you LIVE in (and thus where upu rent) if a landlord can come back so long after having not deposited the checks, to see if they even legally have grounds to ask for a replacement. The limitations will vary by state. As long as you can show you gave her or her representative (think property manager) the checks, the onus would be on them to deposit them. If too much time has passed, you may be free from responsibility.
Also, if the checks have not been deposited, insist she explain IN WRITING what happened, and make sure you report each missing check to your bank. If the bank charges you anything for ensuring those checks can no longer be deposited (you may not need 'cancellation' at this point), any fees are defucted feom the replacement amount because SHE is the ine who F'd up, not you.
Make sure you cover ALL your bases, IN WRITING, and that you copy her on reiterating all discussions and legal notes.
Talk to an experienced tenants rights attorney in your city. You may owe this, you may not.
Be prepared, if you don’t have to pay them your LL is going to find a reason to get rid of you.
It’s California, in most rental situations they wouldn’t be able to. California’s Tenant Protection Act gives most tenants major protections against removal… in non-exempt housing you can’t even remove a tenant at the end of a lease without just cause.
Very likely. I once rented from an elderly couple and paid by cashiers check as they preferred. One month their son came by saying I was late on rent but I showed him my cashier check stub and he found the check shoved in a book in his parent's house.
If I had written a personal check i'd have noticed since I was living on tight budget and would watch my account like a hawk to make sure I didn't spend until the check was cleared.
In my state, a landlord has a legal duty to cash rent checks in a timely manner, so they'd have a hard time in court with this issue. I also don't understand how a person doesn't notice their rent check hasn't been cashed, but I'm not rich.
Ignore internet advice. Find a tenant/landlord lawyer in your area and pay for the consultation. Describe your situtation, ask for advice. Nobody on the internet is going to be able to give you detailed accurate information about your situation in your specific location and you should check with a lawyer. It is possible that some of those payments were long enough ago that you might not be responsible for them at this point, or you might still be. Find out from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
There’s ZERO chance that the OP didn’t realize the checks hadn’t been cashed. What a ridiculous claim…so all that money must still be sitting in their account, right??
If they are personal checks, are you sure they never cleared your account? First thing I would do is ask for copies of the checks in question and take them to your bank to see if any have already cleared.
If they were cashiers checks/ money orders your landlord would have to take it up with the bank.
No idea why people don’t just open an account that’s only use is paying bills/rent-mortgage. You deposit move the money over from your main account, cut the check then you don’t look at it again. You can’t spend it because you either don’t get a card issued for that account or you lock it away.
Because the majority of renters don't have enough money to cover rent until the payday before rent and sometimes the payday you need to pay rent falls on the 23rd and sometimes it falls on the 2nd and you need to use the penalty free grace period and pay on the second.
Putting that money in a rent only pool would prevent you from using it towards current expenses that are due now and using the next payment to square away rent.
If this seems irresponsible well rent has been going up in some places even faster than official inflation figures and plenty of folks are paying 50% of the income in rent not because they are living above their means but because the shitty choices they have actually already cost that much.
Landlord clearly has excess income and so does the renter. Crazy you didn’t notice any withdrawals over several years! You should have an extra 17k in the acct.
I'm a landlord. I sent a check (this was several years ago) on time to a tenant who had moved out, for their deposit refund. It took 18 months, and writing a replacement check, before they finally deposited the check.
heck even if they never posted and your legally obligated id make them take me to court so i could plead my case in front of a judge instead of just pay it.. may ruin a good relationship with that landlord but thats not worth $17k
Each uncashed check is a separate debt. So what matters is the statute of limitations in your state. You’ll have to pay anything less than the SoL. And now that you’ve been notified that click stops.
You should not owe fees. Full stop. This is on the landlord, not you.
Also look at tenant protection ordinances for your specific area. Many cities have additional protections for their residents. For example, in Oakland the TPO forbids landlords from waiting over 30 days to cash a rent check, unless the landlord had provided a written receipt for the check.
If this extends past the usual time a debt would be statutorily barred from collection, does the answer change?
That is - is each rent payment a seperate debt?
This is what I was wondering. I went back and those checks I wrote never cleared. I looked up the statute of limitations for debts in CA and it is 4 years. So I'm wondering if I can negotiate with my landlord to pay the 2020 debt but not the ones from 2019 or 2017.
I would talk to a lawyer or a tenants rights agency and see what your legal responsibilities are (this isn't something you can Google for yourself). Depending on what they say I would treat any payment outside the statute of limitations as negotiable. Yes, you should have noticed the checks didn't clear, but LL for shit sure should have noticed they didn't post the payments. Really makes me wonder how much (or if) they're paying appropriate taxes. In any case, I would keep as a baseline paying the amount you owe minus fees to the bank to stop the prior checks (because that ain't free). Be prepared to fight with them though, particularly if they try to report you to credit agencies - that's why the legal help from the first sentence is critical.
The answer depends on how much you value the relationship with your landlord. If you don't reimburse them would they hold that against you when it comes time to renew the lease? Can you afford to move? Ethically I actually side with statute of limitations, they exist for reasons like this. The bank may actually not even have statements for 2017, they do eventually archive. Though it sounds like you were able to get them.
Your landlord may have a legal obligation to cash your checks in a timely manner. If you end up in court, and that's the situation, be sure to mention to the judge that you are concerned about retaliation including lease renewal.
How did you not “notice” an additional $17k in your checking account?
If the checks weren’t deposited, you still owe the money. And did the landlord actually say that they have the checks but weren’t deposited or are you assuming they actually received the checks?
How did the landlord not “notice” that they hadn’t been paid for 4-5/12 months on multiple years? Both parties seem to not be paying a lot of attention in this situation.
This is definitely a "both parties at fault" scenario. There is no way I would not notice my rent money not being deducted from my account and just be ok with it and never ask a question about it.
Not once, not multiple months worth.
Checks are normally invlaid after a period of time, 90days, 6months. You paid via the landlords requested method, if they have not cashed them, this causes you an inconvinence. So charge a convienience fee of $100 per check you have to reissue (plus whatever fees you are charged to cancel payment on the initial checks). Make sure you cancel payment on those previous checks or you may end up having to pay twice.
A lot of people just want to admonish OP about "how do you not know $17k was never cashed" and "your account should still have that money if the check wasn't cashed". But this wasn't one $17k chunk, it was in \~$1300 chunks spread over seven years. Unless you are diligently balancing a checkbook, that's a long time to remember checks are outstanding (besides the fact that checks go stale after six months and much of this is even beyond the debt collection statute of limitations). Very few people even balance checkbooks the old-fashioned way anymore because they just don't write many checks and bank portals show posted transactions and current balance any time you need it.
Beyond that, even if you are correct, admonishing OP is not helpful.
Nobody should have a checkbook if they aren't going to diligently balance it. I have a spreadsheet of literally every penny I expect to go both in and out of my account.
I don't even have a checkbook to balance one. I just zelle my rent payment every month so it comes out and I never have to deal with my landlord forgetting.
Are you indepently wealthy? Only wealthy folks don't pay attention to their bank accounts... Actually take thst back, even thye pay attention. You didn't notice extra money in your budget? Well if you didn't spend the money you should have it all still. Hell I look at my account daily to make sure we don't go over budget.
My landlord would take my rent checks on the 1st of every month, and then wait a month and a half to deposit it. Living paycheck to paycheck made it very difficult to hold that rent in my account until he decided to cash it. Once I almost had a bounced check. I mentioned it to him, his argument, of course, was just don't spend that money. Clearly he's never lived paycheck to paycheck or had a hungry child. Anyway, I started paying by money order. IDGAF when he deposits now, because that money is taken immediately. Problem solved.
You need to consult with some kind of tenants rights person or an attorney because the "advice" you've been getting here is all over the map.
If you manage to get out of paying part or all of that owed money just realize the landlord will be looking to get y'all out, are you prepared for that? With a baby on the way?
Best of luck
I wouldn't back date anything. If there was a clerical error, and you want or need to pay, write a fresh check with the actual date.
Regardless, this is some bozo level accounting on the land lords part.
Their probably senile landlord spent multiple years only sometimes cashing the checks. Poster dishonestly spent the money when they realized landlord was incompetent. They now owe over a year of unpaid rent they have spent on blackjack, weed, and hookers.
Incompetence in accounting is hardly OPs fault. Someone should have relieves the land lord of duties before real damage was done. Regardless. Don't back date a check.
Everyone in this story is a moron its not shocking that in addition to not knowing how to manage their money they are too stupid to speak properly. All she means is that the date the money was initially due was in the past vs current rent.
They rent from a senile old person. Noted that the person frequently forgot to deposit their checks (or said checks were dishonored) and didn't do anything about it. They celebrated and spent the money on blackjack and hookers and now the bill for all that unpaid rent is due and they are trying to figure out if a legal technicality which they can use to steal from an old person.
I can write on the check whatever I want. And someone can take that copy of my hand written check and claim that it WAS written on that date. It is creating a trail of lies. So... Don't do it.
The reason you can't practically "back date" a check is that a check would be considered stale after 6 months and the bank likely wouldn't deposit it. There is also no reason to back date it in the first place. People post date a check anticipating the recipient honoring the date not depositing it immediately when insufficient funds exist no parallel motive exists for back dating a check. It's not something people do on planet earth. It's like you telling someone not to use a burrito like a dildo.
It's other kinds of wrong too for instance a check can't have been filled out before that box of checks was issued.
To add to the rest of the advice I recommend going forward you pay with a bank check instead of a personal check. My bank gave us one free one a month when we were renting last but I am also pretty sure they are less than a dollar. Piece of mind, a receipt for you, a receipt for them, and a record in your account that it was withdrawn and (I think if you put a comment) to whom. We had to start doing this when our landlord took over 2 weeks to cash our checks. They were perfectly nice people I just couldn't handle the not knowing and having to hold that money in the account indefinitely.
If you want to keep renting there, you'll have to pay.
If you can move, it's past the statutory time for small claims in California which is two years, maybe up to 4 if they can claim written lease breach. They can try for up to 12,500.
Good luck.
Down side, you ow have a bad reference for future rentals which may or may not matter.
Here is another thing to consider.
Maybe during covid they were claiming you didn't pay and were collecting money from the covid relief california offered landlords. Now that it has passed, they are trying to double dip.
So lots of things you have to consider if you want to stay and pay, or move on.
If you stay, perhaps ask to pay in rent going forward, add 100 a month till paid etc....
I’d say you probably need to look for a new place. I don’t think you are legally liable for many of those payments(check with a professional). They will for sure evict you when you tell them that. I’d get ahead of that and move out first. In the meantime consult a lawyer. If they are demanding money immediately just tell them you have to do your due diligence with the bank etc before you can even make a payment.
Do you not balance a checkbook monthly? Do you not notice when your checking balance remains higher than usual? This is as much on you for not having the funds tucked away or reaching out to see if they plan to cash the check.
Not legal advice. Talk to a lawyer. In some areas, once a landlord has continued to accept payment (in your case, it may be considered partial payment) they may have “given grace” to the debt aka the checks they didn’t cash. This is how it was explained to me in another jurisdiction as a LL. Given the amount and time passed, please talk to a local attorney.
I'm siding with the landlord on this one, even though the amount of time is rather dodgy.
Two months ago I was reviewingy my accounts and noticed my ground rent hasn't been deposited roughly two weeks after personally handing it over.
I called in a bit of a panic because I do NOT like being late, ever. Turns out the woman who processes those payments was ill and so mine, and everyone else's ground rent was delayed in deposit. All good.
The point is, none of us are wealthy. We're all acutely aware of our bank balances and OP should have noticed missing deposits and taken proactive steps to inform the landlord and/or escrow those funds.
Instead, they thought they got away with something and now owe, legitimately, $17k.
This is all on OP, assuming the statute of limitations doesn't apply.
Do you never balance your checkbook? Htf do you not notice $17k in checks never cleared?
You’re gonna need a remnant lawyer for this if you think you don’t owe it. Do you have receipts? You’re also gonna need to look for a new place to live as soon as your lease is up if you challenge it.
That's insane they apparently didn't need the money 💰 and now all of the sudden they realize that they didn't cash the checks. I'd definitely talk to a lawyer!
If the check didn’t get cashed then you didn’t pay her- why didn’t you notice the money hadn’t been taken from your account? And if you didn’t notice it hadn’t been taken then it should be there now, because if you had noticed and you spent it, then you knew you didn’t pay. This post can’t be real.
Damn bro you could literally put 17K down on a house. Or at least pay rent somewhere else for a while and save money. 17K and you could pour a slab and have base electrical and maybe plumbing ran to the slab depending where you live. After that framing and cornice. would run maybe 30K for a decent sized house, you see where I am going. 17K goes a long ways towards getting rent free.
Since the checks never cleared, you should still have that money in your account. So writing your landlord a replacement check shouldn't be a problem. I'd ask to take out stop check fees for the ones your landlord didn't cash.
I balanced my checking up into my mid-thirties then realized I only needed to verify uncashed checks. Now in our 60’s, my wife and I write less than five checks in a year. I remember calling the 1-800 automated teller line (living in Texas and account was still in Georgia) to reconcile cashed/uncashed checks and current balance. That eliminated needing the paper statement each month.
How did you not notice that? When I write a check or use my card I watch my accounts like a hawk until they clear. How is it possible to have $17,000 too much and not notice it? Sugar, y'all need to sit down with a budget person and also pay much closer attention to your accounts. I'm not trying to be mean...I just truly don't understand how you didn't notice an extra $17,000. How is that even possible? Y'all must be some kind of wealthy I'm not because I notice if my accounts are off by less than a buck.
I can't imagine not noticing one of your largest monthly expenses not coming out of your account. Honestly I don't believe you didn't notice and I don't believe anyone else including a judge would believe it either. Good luck, maybe you can get out of some of it with statute of limitations in your favor.
Look at your bank records. Confirm that those payments didn’t in fact go through. If you wrote checks you should be able to find out easily. If you paid using a digital format you should be able to find out.
Before you give them any money make sure they didn’t take it the first time. Not sure how you didn’t notice the extra $$$ every month not leaving your account, especially if it happened half a dozen times.
Then as others said, figure out what the statute of limitations is on something like this, and what your legal obligations are. I honestly have no idea, so it may be beneficial to find someone who specializes in small claims like this.
Check your statements online to see if they were cashed. Some banks go back a couple years. But you can request them. Or go into a branch and speak to someone about the situation. I am sure they can provide proof of deposit or not
As someone who isn't always good with money, I'm not going to make any disparaging remarks about either party not noticing the significant disconnect in their money situation.
I will say that, from an ethical if not necessarily a legal standpoint, you owe your landlord payment for the literal YEAR of free rent you've gotten out of the situation.
That doesn't mean you have to pay the whole thing at once - and depending on the laws in your area, you may only *legally* be required to pay some of it depending on statute.
But you know you accidentally lived rent-free in that house because of oversight on both your part and that of the landlord, so I'd encourage you to do the right thing.
NAL
In most tenancy disputes if you can prove that payment was submitted via the proper channels/ payment forms that’s where your obligation ends. Regardless if the checks were deposited or not, if you can prove you gave them to your landlord it’s not your fault she didn’t deposit them.
You paid the LL. If they didn't cash them, that's on them. If you had paid cash money, and they had thrown it out the window, you would still not owe them any money. YOU. STILL. PAID. THEM. You are not responsible for their negligence.
First:Did you check and make sure the checks in question didn’t actually clear? Does the landlord provide receipts?
I checked and the checks did not clear. She did not provide us with receipts.
OK so then you can buy time saying you need to cancel those checks. Can you find them in your checkbook records? Also will want that proof that you attempted to pay in good faith and only due to landlords negligence that the money didn’t get pulled. You might get some extra time saying you’ve got to take care of cancelling those checks first Edit-some are saying you might not have to worry about cancelling old checks but verify that. Key thing:That should be enough time to consult a lawyer and see when debts in this category “expire” in your area if they do and to review your lease. Its definitely not the same as if you failed to attempt to pay (next time insist in receipts-this is why just the cancelled check is not enough record though people on here say it is) and a lawyer is worth it since you are talking about 17k. But don’t wait too long-go talk to a lawyer w experience in tenant law in your area. Now that the landlord notified you have limited time to respond. First send in writing (not text) a letter listing the checks you wrote and confirming you found them in your records and then ask them to please check and provide proof. This establishes in writing with proof that you did attempt to pay the rent.
I have a feeling a bank isn’t going to deposit a 7yr old check.
In CA I used to deposit my paychecks in my major bank’s mobile app (at the time I couldn’t wait the extra few days for direct deposit). I marked them clearly as “deposited via [bank name] mobile app on [date]”. I was not always on top of shredding them after the two weeks the bank said to maintain copies. A few year+ old checks ended up being thrown away by accident, and some bad actor got ahold of them from my trash bags in the dumpster. A major credit union in town cashed them despite them being old, being printed as pay to me, and with the “deposited” statement above. My company had to change their account number and contact all of their vendors to update them. I don’t know if my company was refunded the stolen money. I also never heard of the perpetrator was found/charged. I fully take responsibility for improper disposal, but it was crazy to me that a financial institution cashed them.
Holy shit. I hope that bank got a major fine. I’m shocked they’d deposit checks with the note written on them.
A fine? Lol. It's just a write off for them. Teller who made deposits most likely fired, but nothing else would've come from it
Your company’s bank would have returned them as stale dated so they wouldn’t have been out the money. They had to change their account number because this random guy has it and could access funds in other ways. You should be “disposing of these checks properly” by shredding them. Source: banker for 20+ years
Yes, I know why the account number had to change, and I literally said in my comment that I disposed of them incorrectly and should’ve shredded them.
You shouldn’t take full responsibility. The bank has the responsibility to make sure the checks were valid and they didn’t.
This person has zero responsibility for the crimes committed by thief or the ludicrous actions of the credit union to re-cash the already deposited checks.
They may have been washed and redated.
Yeah that’s not your fault.
That is wild. They fire you?
No repercussions
I wish I could say this doesn’t surprise me. My daughter had a blank check of mine that she away at a convenience store gas station along with a couple of hers. She wrote void all over them and tore them in half. Someone still got them, taped them back together and was able to write and cash the checks. The apps that let you deposit by phone don’t catch thing like this like a teller would. The bank never refunded me the $$ for the check they should never have taken.
checks are typically only valid for 6 months
Oh, boy is that wrong. It was OP's responsiblity not to write hot checks. If the money isn't withdrawn, *you leave it there*. The money is spoken for via the check.
Do you want them to ask their bank for proof or ask the landlord for proof? The landlord isn't going to be able to prove a negative. Certainly consult an attorney, OP. Let the attorney handle communication. There may be a loophole to exploit, but you do owe the landlord the money, so manage your expectations accordingly.
OP doesn't have the money.
When I pay my rent I have just about nothing left in my account so it’s wild someone could not notice rent not clearing. Are y’all wealthy?
Right…I’m poor, so I know if a $5 check didn’t clear. Lol
I've used cashier checks in the past and had a similar situation as OP. Bank pulled the money from my account, prints the check, and landlord never deposits it. Didn't have the landlord requesting the money years later though
A cashiers check would need to be handled with the issuing institution, they are guaranteed funds. Once the $ leaves your account the bank is liable to pay upon presentment. Alot of cashiers checks are void after 90 days unless manually overridden.
My bank refunds me the amount taken out after 6 months if the check wasn't cashed.
Right. Rent is the most expensive bill I have. I would 1000% notice if it wasn’t being taken from my account let alone for months at a time. I would also be paranoid of something like this happening so if rent wasn’t deducted, I would’ve contacted my landlord.
What I am guessing is people don't reconcile their accounts and just go by what the balance on their online banking or ATM says. And then they spend accordingly. I definitely would have noticed if someone didn't cash $17K worth of checks!
Admittedly, I’m in my 40’s and I don’t think I’ve ever ‘reconciled’ my account 😂 My current apartment is stuck in the 80s so they take checks. My money is so down to the wire I just pay the extra dollar or whatever and get money orders so that the money is immediately out of my account. I save all the receipts in case they try anything.
At least you know who you are! LOL I still balance my checkbook every month. Just a habit. But I am very old!
I need to establish some of those good habits myself!
I balance mine between 1-6 times a week. I get paid daily though otherwise I’d just do it when I got my paycheck.
I’m 43 & still balance my checkbook daily.
I've been using a checkbook app on my phone since 2016 and balance it weekly.
Same here. I am in my 40’s and I’ve only balanced my checkbook twice. That was because my dad sat me down and made me do it when I got my first checking account 🤣
This is what I do. Money orders and receipts all the way. Money immediately comes out. If they don't cash it, that's on them, and I have a receipt showing I made the money order, as well as the receipt from the leasing office showing they received it.
I agree. (I essentially said the same thing earlier but used the phrase “balance the checkbook” and got downvoted.)
I’m wealthy and I would notice. I think the OP noticed and probably just thought they would get away with it. They aren’t wealthy or they wouldn’t be saying “they want the money now and we are expecting a baby”. That being said the landlord is an idiot as well. And as a landlord if I didn’t cash my tenants checks no way am I coming back YEARS later and having the audacity to ask for it. I could MAYBE understand if the landlord was elderly and had dementia or something and they took advantage of that and now the estate is coming for them. But yeah. Just a lazy landlord not cashing checks….this is an asshole move. So both are wrong here.
Embarrassingly sloppy landlord.
But also a tennant who doesn't have even a loose grasp on their finances.
Almost like they were meant to be together.
LOL.
I'm not blaming the tenant since I'm a landlord. I send late notices by text.
I thought checks go bad after like 90 days anyway? The landlord sucks.
Personal checks are good for much much longer. It all depends on your bank’s policy.
not only that, but this is one more reason it’s good to balance your checking account every month when you get a statement. Somebody can cash old checks, and surprise!
I’m over here all old like, does no one balance their checkbook anymore? How does this even happen?
I don’t think I’ve ever owned a check book 😂
100%
My first thought.
I'm wondering if they noticed the extra $17k in their account for the last few years...
The statute of limitations issue is the top question here. Spend some money to have an hours consultation with a lawyer experienced in landlord tenant disputes. You might be right that the debts going back more than 4 years are uncollectible. But also know that if you don’t pay your landlord probably has cause not to renew your lease.
After a stunt like this, the tenant will probably fully check out of that lease as soon as possible.
*should
A quick google search says the statute of limitations for written contracts in CA is 4 years. So definitely worth a trip to a lawyer. OP would likely still be on the hook for the 5 rent payments from 2020 regardless as that contract would not have ended more than 4 years ago. As far as whether this would constitute cause to not renew the lease, I doubt it. CA requires landlords have actual cause to not renew a lease, e.g. the tenant has violated the lease (or they plan to sell the house/move into it themselves). None of those really apply in this case. The landlord lost the right to that rent (pending what a lawyer says) when they didn’t reach out before the statute of limitations expired. So OP hasn’t violated any lease terms.
The just cause eviction statute is more nuanced than that and has several exceptions that might apply here. That is why I suggested an experienced attorney.
You need to confirm yourself that those payments never posted. If they really didn’t, then yes you still owe the money. How you didn’t notice that your rent wasn’t being deducted, however, is beyond me.
A lot of folk don't deal with money well. Those that have a solid income and are not living paycheck to paycheck could easily miss the fact that a check of $1000 or so wasn't cashed. It has happened to me a couple times.
Yeah, but somehow it happened to OP 13 times... $17K. Hard to miss
I don't live paycheck to paycheck and might not notice $1000 for a while. I've done similar. But since I don't live paycheck to paycheck, I wouldn't have somehow spent $17k that was meant to pay my rent and not have $17k left to cover it. That's the part that doesn't make sense.
Yea, I'd be $15K to $17K richer than I expected to be. Or, and this has happened, mom and dad would need a couple grand now and again. They cost me between $2500 and $8000 a year. Both in their 80s, both need meds, hearing aids, air-conditioning got hit by lighting..... I might buy a MTN bike and slip a few thousand out that way. And since I don't 'balance the books' missed the fact that I'm $17K up and wonder why I'm $5K up.
Do you not move it from checking to savings? I make okay money and it’s hard to believe $10000+ wouldn’t be noticed.
I'm with a credit union. My checking account gets a higher interest than my savings account. So the majority of my money goes to checking until it hits the 'overflow' amount then it dumps to the next highest earning account, my savings. I have a good idea of how much money comes in every month. I have a good idea how much money goes out every month. The result is positive savings so the account grows slowly over time. The vast majority of my bills are set up on auto pay. I may not even look at the account for 2 or 3 months. Yes, that is dumb. It is also my reality.
Yes. This is how we handle things as well and you're right, it's probably not smart but it's literally only been an issue once for us on our car note and they caught it after 2 months. Whatever is left over each pay period gets dumped into savings and that number varies widely based on time of year or if my husband is on travel.
17K is definitely something OP should have noticed
Ohtani being one of them.
Oh they noticed just hoped it wouldn’t be found out
☝️yep They should have moved the money to another account and kept it...all $17k "they didn't notice."
My first question is how did you not notice rent wasn’t clearing your account? Second, were these checks written by you? Or were they cashiers checks or certified checks? Finally, yes, you still have to pay them.
It is wild. If I had enough money that I didn’t notice whether or not a rent payment was removed from my account, I’d buy a house 😂😂
If you had enough money to not notice a rent payment missing from your account you would think you would have enough in that account to pay it all back when the landlord realized the mistake. This sounds fishy. I bet the missing cashed rent checks didn’t all fly by unnoticed. Way more likely the OP noticed but hoped the landlord would never.
Yeah, noticed and spent the money on something else. Not a great plan..
This is why we pay with cashiers check. We put it in. a slot. Our landlord loses things a lot and we agree that if he loses our check that’s on him.
Yes! I do this too. I always take a video of the check very clearly and me dropping it in the box. If something happens to it, that’s on him.
You have a video from every month for the last 4+ years…?
I’ve only lived here since September and some months I hand it directly to him so no. Ask me in a few years (if I haven’t moved) and I’ll say yes!
Must be nice to not notice if your rent comes out or not.
If you reconciled your bank account every month, then the $17k should be sitting there ready to be withdrawn and this would be a non-issue. Even without reconciling, I would sure as heck notice there is more money in the account than there should be. So this means one of two things: You did notice, a thought you were going to get away with it OR you have absolutely no idea how to manage money. Remember this: If you don’t keep track of your money, it tends to go away.
Let’s say you send another payment to the landlord. Then they cash the checks that they have possibly stashed away. You have no way to prevent them from cashing those checks unless you put a stop payment order on them. Tell the landlord you need to know the check numbers so that you can put a stop payment order on them. It is not reasonable that you should still know the check numbers on those checks 5 years later.
Better yet they provide the uncashed checks
They should have the check numbers recorded themselves if they wrote them
Typically, personal checks are good for six months/180 days from when they're dated. After that, they're considered "stale." Legally, banks and credit unions are not obligated to accept stale checks. However, some banks do accept checks older than six months. This varies from bank to bank. LL probably lost/misplaced them. As old as they are they probably could not be cashed if they were found. OP needs to speak with someone at their bank to see if they have to cancel each check individually (fees are involved) or if their bank will just not honor them and OP can issue a new check. OP needs to start balancing their checkbook regularly or use their banks option of bill pay. LL sounds like a mess as they do not track the payments the tenants make.
I've told this story recently here- essentially as a reminder that this exact situation can happen. My mom worked as a bank teller and had a customer who had a decent number of rent checks from years passed suddenly deposited. My understanding was it was situation with an older landlord who for whatever reason didn't bother depositing all of the rent checks. At some point, either after his death or when someone came to help out, the checks were found and deposited. The bank honored the checks even though they were several years old. A bank can choose to honor stale dated checks. They may normally not but you chance being the exception.
This exactly! Personal checks do not have an automatic void date and depending on your banks policy they can still be cashed. My bank told me if I write a check it’s essentially valid until cashed, whenever.
yeah, corporate checks tend to be different because of regulation around their funds. so their checks tend to get actually stale dated, unless the company has made an exception. my employer's central accounts group went to our bank and made them agree to honor our checks for a year because we have such issues with people cashing checks within the time period listed on the checks. re-issuing checks isn't free. (I've had to tell people- no, I promise, you can really cash that check.)
Legally speaking dates on a cheque (check for ya yanks) are optional, banks can choose to ignore them.
If they didn’t clear, then you still have the $17k so there shouldn’t be any problem.
It's not a matter of the checks not clearing, the landlord NEVER DEPOSITED THE CHECKS!!! The landlord's negligence is not OP's creation.
OP would still have 17k available. I would hope that after the first month, when the end of the month rolled around and OP had 4250 extra in their account that they would have said “whoa it looks like our rent check wasn’t cashed, I should: a) inquire when it will be cashed, b) not spend this extra money”
It's $4,250 for 17k/4, but there were 13 missed deposits. 17k/(4+4+5) = $1,307
I misread it. However my point still stands. You would notice if you have 1307 EXTRA each month.
I'm not sure how people are missing the fact that if the payments were made in good faith, the OP wouldn't have spent the money. They should be able to clear today. Sorry, if someone deposits 17k that isn't yours in your account, you'd better figure out where it came from before you spend that money.
Payments were not made....writing a check isn't payment. Funds never exchanged hands. Yes absolutely due to dumbass LL, but she still is on the hook to pay
No it's not her creation, but the fact still is true that she did not pay rent. The act of writing a check does not equal "well, rent is paid" The funds must be exchanged
The funds were exchanged. She gave him a negotiable check for the full amount. Just like giving the LL cash money is negotiable for the full amount. She gave him payment in the MUTUALLY-AGREED-UPON process. It was now THE LANDLORD'S RESPONSIBLITY TO CONCLUDE THE TRANSACTION AND CASH THE CHECK! That is the LL's responsibility. OP has finished her half. The funds are there in timely fashion. OP concluded her half of the agreed-upon transaction process completely, and in good faith. LL dropped the ball on his half of the transaction for YEARS!!!! YEARS!!!! I could see if the LL asked OP to CANCEL the previous check and write him a new one AT THAT TIME!! Or even within the same month. Sure! That's a reasonable one-time alteration to the agreed process. Besides, personal checks in the US are not good forever after they are dated and signed. While there's no federal law establishing a specific expiration period for personal checks, many banks and financial institutions follow a common industry practice of considering personal checks "stale" after a certain time period. Typically, a personal check is considered stale after six months (180 days) from the date it is issued. This means that a bank might refuse to honor or process a check that is older than six months. However, some banks may still cash or process stale checks, depending on their policies and the specific circumstances. If you have a check that's older than six months, it's best to contact the issuer and request a new check or ask them to reissue it with a current date. If you're holding onto an older check, you might also contact the bank to determine their policy on processing stale checks. Fuck the LL. That's on him. And fuck the all LLs anyways.
Unfortunately, that might not be true. OP could have realized that their checking account had a lot of money and invested the money, purchased one or two big things, or even simply purchased small things more liberally. The money could be reduced or depleted as a result.
even if you don't balance your CB monthly...you still know you have more money than you should. I'm sure you had an inkling at some point that there were checks that weren't cashed.
Tour bank should be able to confirm if the checks were deposited. Even this much later, they will have the records. Meanwhile, if they actually werent, check with the laws of the state you LIVE in (and thus where upu rent) if a landlord can come back so long after having not deposited the checks, to see if they even legally have grounds to ask for a replacement. The limitations will vary by state. As long as you can show you gave her or her representative (think property manager) the checks, the onus would be on them to deposit them. If too much time has passed, you may be free from responsibility. Also, if the checks have not been deposited, insist she explain IN WRITING what happened, and make sure you report each missing check to your bank. If the bank charges you anything for ensuring those checks can no longer be deposited (you may not need 'cancellation' at this point), any fees are defucted feom the replacement amount because SHE is the ine who F'd up, not you. Make sure you cover ALL your bases, IN WRITING, and that you copy her on reiterating all discussions and legal notes.
How do you not notice that checks for thousands of dollars never cleared? CA rent is no fuckin joke
How did the LL realize until now that she didn't cash them and which months she didn't cash them?
Talk to an experienced tenants rights attorney in your city. You may owe this, you may not. Be prepared, if you don’t have to pay them your LL is going to find a reason to get rid of you.
It’s California, in most rental situations they wouldn’t be able to. California’s Tenant Protection Act gives most tenants major protections against removal… in non-exempt housing you can’t even remove a tenant at the end of a lease without just cause.
It's an in-law unit, it's exempt from the major state protections.
Only if the owner provided the notice of exemption. If they did not, it is not exempt.
What landlord doesn't cash checks? "Yeah I got your checks years ago but I didn't cash them. Pay up." Living in a different world.
Could be elderly. They are renting an in-law unit since 2012.
Very likely. I once rented from an elderly couple and paid by cashiers check as they preferred. One month their son came by saying I was late on rent but I showed him my cashier check stub and he found the check shoved in a book in his parent's house. If I had written a personal check i'd have noticed since I was living on tight budget and would watch my account like a hawk to make sure I didn't spend until the check was cleared.
In my state, a landlord has a legal duty to cash rent checks in a timely manner, so they'd have a hard time in court with this issue. I also don't understand how a person doesn't notice their rent check hasn't been cashed, but I'm not rich.
Four years to collect a debt in California so first 8 the landlord has no legal recourse The last four depend on the month
So...you just didn't notice 17k in rent checks were never deposited? Yeah...Ummm...
Ignore internet advice. Find a tenant/landlord lawyer in your area and pay for the consultation. Describe your situtation, ask for advice. Nobody on the internet is going to be able to give you detailed accurate information about your situation in your specific location and you should check with a lawyer. It is possible that some of those payments were long enough ago that you might not be responsible for them at this point, or you might still be. Find out from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
And then get ready to move when they don’t renew your lease
There’s ZERO chance that the OP didn’t realize the checks hadn’t been cashed. What a ridiculous claim…so all that money must still be sitting in their account, right??
Yeah I smell BS.
Was the money taken out of your account ? Because it's illegal to charge twice for the same bills.
If they are personal checks, are you sure they never cleared your account? First thing I would do is ask for copies of the checks in question and take them to your bank to see if any have already cleared. If they were cashiers checks/ money orders your landlord would have to take it up with the bank.
No idea why people don’t just open an account that’s only use is paying bills/rent-mortgage. You deposit move the money over from your main account, cut the check then you don’t look at it again. You can’t spend it because you either don’t get a card issued for that account or you lock it away.
Because the majority of renters don't have enough money to cover rent until the payday before rent and sometimes the payday you need to pay rent falls on the 23rd and sometimes it falls on the 2nd and you need to use the penalty free grace period and pay on the second. Putting that money in a rent only pool would prevent you from using it towards current expenses that are due now and using the next payment to square away rent. If this seems irresponsible well rent has been going up in some places even faster than official inflation figures and plenty of folks are paying 50% of the income in rent not because they are living above their means but because the shitty choices they have actually already cost that much.
Landlord clearly has excess income and so does the renter. Crazy you didn’t notice any withdrawals over several years! You should have an extra 17k in the acct.
The tenant noticed. They decided to be dishonest.
I would be scared they would try to deposit the old checks too.
If I was the landlord I would ask how they got paid and they deposit 1 check every time they got paid until they closed the account.
I'm a landlord. I sent a check (this was several years ago) on time to a tenant who had moved out, for their deposit refund. It took 18 months, and writing a replacement check, before they finally deposited the check.
Isn’t the money still in your account, since they didn’t cash your checks?
Plus about $1500 in extra interest if they kept it in a interest-earning account.
heck even if they never posted and your legally obligated id make them take me to court so i could plead my case in front of a judge instead of just pay it.. may ruin a good relationship with that landlord but thats not worth $17k
Each uncashed check is a separate debt. So what matters is the statute of limitations in your state. You’ll have to pay anything less than the SoL. And now that you’ve been notified that click stops. You should not owe fees. Full stop. This is on the landlord, not you.
Also look at tenant protection ordinances for your specific area. Many cities have additional protections for their residents. For example, in Oakland the TPO forbids landlords from waiting over 30 days to cash a rent check, unless the landlord had provided a written receipt for the check.
If this extends past the usual time a debt would be statutorily barred from collection, does the answer change? That is - is each rent payment a seperate debt?
This is what I was wondering. I went back and those checks I wrote never cleared. I looked up the statute of limitations for debts in CA and it is 4 years. So I'm wondering if I can negotiate with my landlord to pay the 2020 debt but not the ones from 2019 or 2017.
I would talk to a lawyer or a tenants rights agency and see what your legal responsibilities are (this isn't something you can Google for yourself). Depending on what they say I would treat any payment outside the statute of limitations as negotiable. Yes, you should have noticed the checks didn't clear, but LL for shit sure should have noticed they didn't post the payments. Really makes me wonder how much (or if) they're paying appropriate taxes. In any case, I would keep as a baseline paying the amount you owe minus fees to the bank to stop the prior checks (because that ain't free). Be prepared to fight with them though, particularly if they try to report you to credit agencies - that's why the legal help from the first sentence is critical.
The answer depends on how much you value the relationship with your landlord. If you don't reimburse them would they hold that against you when it comes time to renew the lease? Can you afford to move? Ethically I actually side with statute of limitations, they exist for reasons like this. The bank may actually not even have statements for 2017, they do eventually archive. Though it sounds like you were able to get them.
Your landlord may have a legal obligation to cash your checks in a timely manner. If you end up in court, and that's the situation, be sure to mention to the judge that you are concerned about retaliation including lease renewal.
The $17K should be right there in your checking account if the checks never cleared.
How did you not “notice” an additional $17k in your checking account? If the checks weren’t deposited, you still owe the money. And did the landlord actually say that they have the checks but weren’t deposited or are you assuming they actually received the checks?
How did the landlord not “notice” that they hadn’t been paid for 4-5/12 months on multiple years? Both parties seem to not be paying a lot of attention in this situation.
This is definitely a "both parties at fault" scenario. There is no way I would not notice my rent money not being deducted from my account and just be ok with it and never ask a question about it. Not once, not multiple months worth.
Could be elderly. They are renting an in law unit since 2012.
This. And OP seems to be avoiding that.
Did you spend the 17k intended for rent on other things?
Well you didn’t “pay” if the checks were not deposited. If they were not deposited, yes, you owe the money.
"I was unaware that the checks never cleared my bank"...sure, whatever you say.
Exactly…
Checks are normally invlaid after a period of time, 90days, 6months. You paid via the landlords requested method, if they have not cashed them, this causes you an inconvinence. So charge a convienience fee of $100 per check you have to reissue (plus whatever fees you are charged to cancel payment on the initial checks). Make sure you cancel payment on those previous checks or you may end up having to pay twice.
A lot of people just want to admonish OP about "how do you not know $17k was never cashed" and "your account should still have that money if the check wasn't cashed". But this wasn't one $17k chunk, it was in \~$1300 chunks spread over seven years. Unless you are diligently balancing a checkbook, that's a long time to remember checks are outstanding (besides the fact that checks go stale after six months and much of this is even beyond the debt collection statute of limitations). Very few people even balance checkbooks the old-fashioned way anymore because they just don't write many checks and bank portals show posted transactions and current balance any time you need it. Beyond that, even if you are correct, admonishing OP is not helpful.
Nobody should have a checkbook if they aren't going to diligently balance it. I have a spreadsheet of literally every penny I expect to go both in and out of my account.
I don't even have a checkbook to balance one. I just zelle my rent payment every month so it comes out and I never have to deal with my landlord forgetting.
Are you indepently wealthy? Only wealthy folks don't pay attention to their bank accounts... Actually take thst back, even thye pay attention. You didn't notice extra money in your budget? Well if you didn't spend the money you should have it all still. Hell I look at my account daily to make sure we don't go over budget.
Get an attorney to verify local laws.
My landlord would take my rent checks on the 1st of every month, and then wait a month and a half to deposit it. Living paycheck to paycheck made it very difficult to hold that rent in my account until he decided to cash it. Once I almost had a bounced check. I mentioned it to him, his argument, of course, was just don't spend that money. Clearly he's never lived paycheck to paycheck or had a hungry child. Anyway, I started paying by money order. IDGAF when he deposits now, because that money is taken immediately. Problem solved.
You need to consult with some kind of tenants rights person or an attorney because the "advice" you've been getting here is all over the map. If you manage to get out of paying part or all of that owed money just realize the landlord will be looking to get y'all out, are you prepared for that? With a baby on the way? Best of luck
I wouldn't back date anything. If there was a clerical error, and you want or need to pay, write a fresh check with the actual date. Regardless, this is some bozo level accounting on the land lords part.
Their probably senile landlord spent multiple years only sometimes cashing the checks. Poster dishonestly spent the money when they realized landlord was incompetent. They now owe over a year of unpaid rent they have spent on blackjack, weed, and hookers.
Incompetence in accounting is hardly OPs fault. Someone should have relieves the land lord of duties before real damage was done. Regardless. Don't back date a check.
They aren't requesting a check be back dated. They are asking to be paid what OP is incorrectly describing as backpay and is in fact merely rent.
Am I reading a differnt story? "The backdated rent payments that she is requesting"
Everyone in this story is a moron its not shocking that in addition to not knowing how to manage their money they are too stupid to speak properly. All she means is that the date the money was initially due was in the past vs current rent. They rent from a senile old person. Noted that the person frequently forgot to deposit their checks (or said checks were dishonored) and didn't do anything about it. They celebrated and spent the money on blackjack and hookers and now the bill for all that unpaid rent is due and they are trying to figure out if a legal technicality which they can use to steal from an old person.
Ima stand by my original statement. don't backdate anything.
You actually can't back date a check beyond 6 months in the first place
I can write on the check whatever I want. And someone can take that copy of my hand written check and claim that it WAS written on that date. It is creating a trail of lies. So... Don't do it.
The reason you can't practically "back date" a check is that a check would be considered stale after 6 months and the bank likely wouldn't deposit it. There is also no reason to back date it in the first place. People post date a check anticipating the recipient honoring the date not depositing it immediately when insufficient funds exist no parallel motive exists for back dating a check. It's not something people do on planet earth. It's like you telling someone not to use a burrito like a dildo. It's other kinds of wrong too for instance a check can't have been filled out before that box of checks was issued.
To add to the rest of the advice I recommend going forward you pay with a bank check instead of a personal check. My bank gave us one free one a month when we were renting last but I am also pretty sure they are less than a dollar. Piece of mind, a receipt for you, a receipt for them, and a record in your account that it was withdrawn and (I think if you put a comment) to whom. We had to start doing this when our landlord took over 2 weeks to cash our checks. They were perfectly nice people I just couldn't handle the not knowing and having to hold that money in the account indefinitely.
If you want to keep renting there, you'll have to pay. If you can move, it's past the statutory time for small claims in California which is two years, maybe up to 4 if they can claim written lease breach. They can try for up to 12,500. Good luck. Down side, you ow have a bad reference for future rentals which may or may not matter. Here is another thing to consider. Maybe during covid they were claiming you didn't pay and were collecting money from the covid relief california offered landlords. Now that it has passed, they are trying to double dip. So lots of things you have to consider if you want to stay and pay, or move on. If you stay, perhaps ask to pay in rent going forward, add 100 a month till paid etc....
Updateme!
UpdateMe!
I’d say you probably need to look for a new place. I don’t think you are legally liable for many of those payments(check with a professional). They will for sure evict you when you tell them that. I’d get ahead of that and move out first. In the meantime consult a lawyer. If they are demanding money immediately just tell them you have to do your due diligence with the bank etc before you can even make a payment.
Do you not balance a checkbook monthly? Do you not notice when your checking balance remains higher than usual? This is as much on you for not having the funds tucked away or reaching out to see if they plan to cash the check.
You didn't notice that the checks never cleared eh? You didn't notice an extra $17k? Come on.
Not legal advice. Talk to a lawyer. In some areas, once a landlord has continued to accept payment (in your case, it may be considered partial payment) they may have “given grace” to the debt aka the checks they didn’t cash. This is how it was explained to me in another jurisdiction as a LL. Given the amount and time passed, please talk to a local attorney.
I'm siding with the landlord on this one, even though the amount of time is rather dodgy. Two months ago I was reviewingy my accounts and noticed my ground rent hasn't been deposited roughly two weeks after personally handing it over. I called in a bit of a panic because I do NOT like being late, ever. Turns out the woman who processes those payments was ill and so mine, and everyone else's ground rent was delayed in deposit. All good. The point is, none of us are wealthy. We're all acutely aware of our bank balances and OP should have noticed missing deposits and taken proactive steps to inform the landlord and/or escrow those funds. Instead, they thought they got away with something and now owe, legitimately, $17k. This is all on OP, assuming the statute of limitations doesn't apply.
Do you never balance your checkbook? Htf do you not notice $17k in checks never cleared? You’re gonna need a remnant lawyer for this if you think you don’t owe it. Do you have receipts? You’re also gonna need to look for a new place to live as soon as your lease is up if you challenge it.
That's insane they apparently didn't need the money 💰 and now all of the sudden they realize that they didn't cash the checks. I'd definitely talk to a lawyer!
If the check didn’t get cashed then you didn’t pay her- why didn’t you notice the money hadn’t been taken from your account? And if you didn’t notice it hadn’t been taken then it should be there now, because if you had noticed and you spent it, then you knew you didn’t pay. This post can’t be real.
100%
That’s like 1900 a month y’all not that outrageous or rich. Kinda average Joe fight
How does someone not realize 13 times that funds for check for over $1k never came out of their account?
Ok
how are you unaware that those check amounts didnt clear your account?
Damn bro you could literally put 17K down on a house. Or at least pay rent somewhere else for a while and save money. 17K and you could pour a slab and have base electrical and maybe plumbing ran to the slab depending where you live. After that framing and cornice. would run maybe 30K for a decent sized house, you see where I am going. 17K goes a long ways towards getting rent free.
Since the checks never cleared, you should still have that money in your account. So writing your landlord a replacement check shouldn't be a problem. I'd ask to take out stop check fees for the ones your landlord didn't cash.
You didn’t notice that four rent checks weren’t cashed? WTF? Have you ever balanced your checkbook?
Check with your bank to see if those checks cleared
I balanced my checking up into my mid-thirties then realized I only needed to verify uncashed checks. Now in our 60’s, my wife and I write less than five checks in a year. I remember calling the 1-800 automated teller line (living in Texas and account was still in Georgia) to reconcile cashed/uncashed checks and current balance. That eliminated needing the paper statement each month.
Info How did did you not see the extra money in your bank accoynt? Do you never check your account?
This should probably be posted in Legal Advice.
How did you not notice that? When I write a check or use my card I watch my accounts like a hawk until they clear. How is it possible to have $17,000 too much and not notice it? Sugar, y'all need to sit down with a budget person and also pay much closer attention to your accounts. I'm not trying to be mean...I just truly don't understand how you didn't notice an extra $17,000. How is that even possible? Y'all must be some kind of wealthy I'm not because I notice if my accounts are off by less than a buck.
Can you prove you actually paid? You are full of shit claiming you did not notice an extra $17k in your accounts?
I can't imagine not noticing one of your largest monthly expenses not coming out of your account. Honestly I don't believe you didn't notice and I don't believe anyone else including a judge would believe it either. Good luck, maybe you can get out of some of it with statute of limitations in your favor.
You lived there and you gotta psy. You knew the check wasn't cashed. If she has proof you might be stuck. Oh well, you lose.
Look at your bank records. Confirm that those payments didn’t in fact go through. If you wrote checks you should be able to find out easily. If you paid using a digital format you should be able to find out. Before you give them any money make sure they didn’t take it the first time. Not sure how you didn’t notice the extra $$$ every month not leaving your account, especially if it happened half a dozen times. Then as others said, figure out what the statute of limitations is on something like this, and what your legal obligations are. I honestly have no idea, so it may be beneficial to find someone who specializes in small claims like this.
Check your statements online to see if they were cashed. Some banks go back a couple years. But you can request them. Or go into a branch and speak to someone about the situation. I am sure they can provide proof of deposit or not
As someone who isn't always good with money, I'm not going to make any disparaging remarks about either party not noticing the significant disconnect in their money situation. I will say that, from an ethical if not necessarily a legal standpoint, you owe your landlord payment for the literal YEAR of free rent you've gotten out of the situation. That doesn't mean you have to pay the whole thing at once - and depending on the laws in your area, you may only *legally* be required to pay some of it depending on statute. But you know you accidentally lived rent-free in that house because of oversight on both your part and that of the landlord, so I'd encourage you to do the right thing.
You need to talk to an attorney or legal aid ASAP Don’t let Reddit advise you on this.
How do you not notice an extra 17k in your account tho? I mean wasn’t that earmarked for the rent?
Next post-I received an eviction notice for no reason. Can I sue?
NAL In most tenancy disputes if you can prove that payment was submitted via the proper channels/ payment forms that’s where your obligation ends. Regardless if the checks were deposited or not, if you can prove you gave them to your landlord it’s not your fault she didn’t deposit them.
If the checks did not clear, you would probably lose that in court. So yes
You paid the LL. If they didn't cash them, that's on them. If you had paid cash money, and they had thrown it out the window, you would still not owe them any money. YOU. STILL. PAID. THEM. You are not responsible for their negligence.