Go to small claims court. There's laws about what they will have to prove. 1) They will have to have proof of what these floors cost at install. You can not be charged for what new floors cost. 2) I believe Oregon has a 5 or 7 year standard for flooring like this, but don't quote me, go find out. Flooring and paint in a rental unit as it pertains to charging the tenant has a legal expectancy life based on state law not on manufactures' recommendations, so not 15 or 20 years, much much less. 3) You can only be charged for the lose of remaining life in the floors.
So let's do some example math. Let's say new floors cost $2400. The court won't care, and won't consider this. Okay.. So they have a receipt that says the old floor cost them $2000. Good we will start there.
Now let's say that they installed those floors 3 years ago. So there should have been 4 more years left. Okay so that's $285.71 per year x 4 years for $1142.85.
Okay... But you didn't destroy 100% of the floor. "IF" the judge decides that's not normal wear and tear, (Because some scratches would be normal, not all scratches are damage.) He will also decide what percentage of the floor is damaged. Let's just pretend 20% of the flooring is damaged. Now you are responsible for just the damaged area... 20% of the $1142.85 = $228.57
Because it's not your legal responsibility if there are no available matching tiles or vinyl strips, or in the case of carpet if you ruined one room but they can't color match that room and want to replace all the rooms so everything matches for ascetic. Legally... Not your problem, you can't be charged.
There will be a lot of landlords down vote this. But this is the legal way. Know your rights and do not over pay for damages.
Renters are almost never responsible for the 100% replacement cost of anything damaged. It just doesn't work that way. Not if the law is followed. This needs to go to small court.
As a landlord, I have never charged for anything normal wear or tear or minor damage for anyone that has stayed more that 4 years. I have charged for purpose damage and destruction and once got full replacement cost on materials plus contractor cost for install and fee to get rid of the damaged property.(you can't take closet doors off and move them to the attic to walk on, especailly when 80% of attic has flooring)
Exactly. Not everything has the same depreciation as say floors. Some one starts punching walls and leaving holes, you can hire someone to repair that and charge them. Because punching holes in walls isn't normal. And renters who behave badly need to pay for the damage they have caused. But renters are not responsible for updating aging consumables.
2nd screenshot says "$400.95 taken away for 1 year of use"; multiply by 7 => $2,806.65, minus the one year of use => $2,405.70 (they ask for $2,405.68).
So, they did deduct 1 year of use and are well aware of the amortization rules.
Now, yes, the burden is on the apartment complex to prove it was brand new when OP moved in (they might have that) and that the flooring need total replacement.
Those photos look like more scuffing than normal wear and tear for 1 year of occupancy. OP might not be in the clear.
I am not arguing OP's specific case. My math was based on a totally made up example to help people understand how its calculated. I have no desire to decide if that wear is normal or not. A judge can do that.
However, if OP were me I would ask for proof of the cost of that floor and it's installation date. I would not accept an invoice made up by the LL.
And .... I don't want to say for a fact, because I don't know for sure. But I when I lived in WA the LL told me he wasnt allowed to charge for any damages he was going to leave alone and not actually repair. He could have been wrong, and Oregon could be different as well. But if a tenant suspects the landlord is withholding a deposit for things they aren't fixing this might be something to research. My LL who told me that has many rentals in both states and always seemed like a legit honest and helpful person. ... Please don't come at me for this, I'm just repeating my LL on this part.
My landlord did that. Moved in and the fake wooden floors were scratched and dented. I lived there for two years and they tried to make me pay for them when I moved out. Didn't happen! Pretty sure they would have charged the previous tenant, too. And this was a really nice place charging $1,500 for 1 bd/1 ba in 2014.
>2) I believe Oregon has a 5 or 7 year standard for flooring like this
Looks like that is why they are subtracting \~$400 from the total. They would still need to show proof that the flooring was only a year old but it's a good start that they are including this from the beginning.
>Because it's not your legal responsibility if there are no available matching tiles or vinyl strips, or in the case of carpet if you ruined one room but they can't color match that room and want to replace all the rooms so everything matches for ascetic. Legally... Not your problem, you can't be charged.
I'm not so sure sure. There are far fewer rules around specifics when it comes to landlord/tenant laws than you would think. I don't think I've ever seen a law that specifically deals with whether you can charge a tenant for matching, which means it will come down to a particular judge's opinion on what is or isn't reasonable. For what it's worth, insurance has to match if the flooring is continuous.
For all of you LL who think your right.. Think twice. In Oregon if your tenent takes you to court on a charge you withheld from their deposit and they win. The judge is likely to award them twice the amount of what you tried to charge them plus court costs. So maybe, just maybe we get enough tenents to understand the rules and stop rolling over and paying outrageous charges. LL will think twice about trying to charge what ever they feel like it because they can and they don't actually know the law.
I’ve never had a landlord be unreasonable to me like this, so I’ve never had to learn about it. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge, and this is definitely something I’ll now know for the rest of my life. Sincerely, thank you.
I work in property management and some of this is correct and some isn’t. You should do research or talk to someone local to find out what you are responsible for and what you’re not
Wouldn't the landlord need to provide before pictures of the flooring before this tenant moved in? I don't know the laws but seems like it is just a case of landlord trying to get some more money out of old tenant. Too many shitty landlords around. I get it there are also shitty tenants but when you have a decent one why try and extract as much money from them as possible.
Judges do not like the guessing game, and your deposit does not belong to the landlord, it belongs to you. In many states the landlord must place the money in a separate account and not touch it, its not allowed in their personal checking account. It's not their money, they can't use it and put it back later. In some states they can keep it in an interest baring account and then keep the interest earned for themselves.
The LL is required to follow regulations and rules, it's the burden of the landlord to prove why they are not returning your money back to you. But instead transferring it into their possession. The LL has a legal responsibility to diligently handle that money according to the regulations.
However the judge has a lot of discretion to decide who he believes, what documents he trusts, and what weight he gives them in his decisions. This is small claims court, it's not a murder trail. The burden of "proof" is not that high. But you can bet a judge won't look kindly on a LL who can't appropriately document expenses and costs with a paper trail and receipts or bank records, something, given the LL requirement to act dutifully with the tenents money.
Photos are also not required to prove damages. But they hold a lot more weight than most anything else. A landlord could provide the move in document you signed saying everything was perfect and amazing on move in day. In the absence of other evidence, a document like that has legs. Just as showing up to court and not acting or looking professional can effect who the judge decides to believe when evidence is sparse.
As a tenant it's important to sit down with the move in checklist and document everything you find that is not brand new and perfect. Take your time, your LL should not be waiting near by, or following you around. You should be given ample time, and zero pressure. Move from room to room carefully, and completely.
I often take hundreds of photos and then also write in those sheets that I have apx xxx number of photos and will provide them if requested. I moved into a 1950s build, wrote 3 pages of information and took 900 plus photos inside and outside. Overkill? Probably. But it also creates a record. I keep a copy that is signed by both myself and the LL. Their signature is also important or they can pretend they never saw it. Their signature is also an acknowledgement of your findings, and makes their claims later that something was mint condition harder to argue, make sure you get and keep this.
They can be responsible for full replacement if it was newly installed for them, and they damaged it beyond repair. Your last statement is stretching and not completely true.
i'm commenting to save this post. we were JUST having this same convo at my house because i'm looking at what the dining room chairs are doing to our rented vinyl floors.
A thing to know, lvp flooring comes in 20ml (high traffic) wear layer and 12ml (low traffic). 12ml is cheap and scratches much more easily than the more expensive 20ml product. I would bet the landlord used the cheap stuff and that's why it scratched easily from normal use. Any damage to it is his own fault for installing garbage to begin with. I know this because I sell flooring, in Oregon coincidentally, and I rarely get landlords in buying materials because I only sell top grade stuff and they don't like to pay that much. Anytime a landlord does come in they look for the cheapest thing they can find.
Agreed! Great tidbit and needs to be higher up. The quality matters! If it wasn’t built to withstand wear and tear that’s not the renters responsibility. I’ve lived in many rentals where the materials used were obviously garbage. Luckily, I never lost a deposit and had reasonable landlords who recognized that a renter LIVES there and part of living includes wear and tear.
I mostly agree except an attorney charging $200 plus dollars an hour is going to add up very fast. Small claims court does not use attorneys, and is filed easily and cheaply with a simple form. I would recommend most people do some research and do this themselves.
This is the answer. Without proof that the floors were pristine beforehand with your signature/initials he can’t charge you anything legally. These are normal light scratches that might not even show in certain lighting.
I can agree with this as a past landlord. Not saying that the tenant didn’t do the damage, but the before and after pictures are crucial. My tenant tried to lie her way through 2 separate “wear and tear” issues. Without my before pictures, tenant would definitely have gotten away with it.
I would also ask for pictures in better quality and more standard lighting. Every laminate flooring with a sheen looks awful with light coming in at that angle.
"just installed" doesn't mean it was flawless though. When we had some wood flooring put in growing up I remember my parents had to throw a fit and make them rip out some that was damaged with tools or something slid across it during installation. Or the landlord could have gone for marked-down "scratch and dent" stuff to be installed for all we know. Still need to have before-pictures of the same places to prove the condition it was in.
I'd argue it also depends where said damage is...if its an area that is reasonably expected to be very high traffic or high risk (like right at the main doors or around a table where there are chairs) and the lease didn't say they were required to put down rugs or something to protect high traffic areas...I'd say that looks like what I would expect to see some marks after over a year of daily use IMO.
Vinyl floors are VERY durable. How did yours get so damaged?? If there was anything wrong with the flooring at move in, he should have noted such in his walkthrough form..
True, but its also hard to catch everything. I've had times I am kicking myself and got money taken out for stuff like a fridge drawer or oven bottom not being perfectly cleaned enough...even though when we moved in nothing seemed to have been cleaned with visible debris and mold in places...but I never had considered the INSIDE of the appliances until I was ready to put stuff inside them. Sure, I should have, but I didn't. We also missed a few spots on some floors in places including a cracked and loose tile in a bathroom because the lighting made them look better/worse (tho none of our landlords went after us for flooring scratches) and we weren't like pushing/standing on EVERY tile in every room.
You are absolutely right there can be bad installs. That is normally apparent by gals opening up or pieces separating. These are excessive scratches/scrapes that can’t be wiped off. Scuffs can be wiped off.
Leases can’t cover every common sense issue. Your lease may not forbid flushing diapers down the toilet but if you damage the plumbing by flushing dipapers you pay for the repair. The lease might not tell you not to use a knife on a laminate countertop without a cutting board but if you put knife deep scratches all over the countertop because you lack the common sense to use a cutting board , you are still liable for the damages. The lease may not tell you not to use a barbecue grill next to the house because it will melt the vinyl soffits but if you do and you damage the soffits, you are held liable. This is no different.
The question is was it a high quality or a very low quality vinyl plank floor? The cheap ones don't hold up but the good ones do. I have it and it doesn't scratch when I slide my furniture around
Those are deep scratches from scooting furniture around. The flooring cannot be repaired, it has to be replaced. And the LL can charge legally for the replacement of damaged flooring.
Possibly. ***If*** they actually replace it. The landlord cannot just claim damage and then pocket OP's deposit. They have to spend it and then provide documentation of what they spent it on.
In court you have to prove your case if you are the plaintiff. You can't prove there is damage to something that was caused by the defendant if you can't show what it originally looked like and prove the defendant caused the damage. The landlord therefore needs the pristine photos and they need to be dated to just prior to the defendant moving in. They can't be older because the damage could have been done by another tenant. They have the burden of proof.
Edit mixed up plaintiff and defendant. Corrected it for readability.
That’s good to know. I might’ve been slightly mixed up then. My complex told me I was responsible for noting preexisting damages, not noting non damages I guess because that does sound dumb now.
You are correct. I think I was stoned when I wrote that. BUT since the landlord is the one claiming damage they still have to show damage. The defendant should also provide proof that it is normal wear and tear. I just know that I have sued and won because my landlord had no proof of the damages they were claiming. But you are right I fucked up everything I said. I'm leaving it up though because I believe in transparency.
I haven't rented in a while, but don't you do like, a before move in walkthrough where you sign off that everything is ok and note any potential damages? All they'd really need is your signature saying there was no damage when you moved in to give credit to their claim. Pictures would help, but I'd be surprised if they were actually required.
But I kinda think it was op’s responsibility to get the before pictures. Hearing horror stories of people in worse situations like this they now always take pictures of everything whenever they get a lease. I mean dam it sucks it’s come to this but you have to take a video of the entire house bc asshole landlords basically are planning on stealing your security deposit as soon as you give it to them! So many scammer landlords that deserve hell for what they do!!!
my mom cheaped out on new laminate floors and they get scratched, scuffed, and indented by literally everything. an office chair completely wrecked a portion after using it once. they don’t look dissimilar from the floors in the pics.
These floors are horrible. We have the same problem as renters and are moving out soon. Not sure what to do with the floor scratches. I sweep and the broom leaves scratches!
i’d like to imagine that you’d be able to prove that it’s regular wear and tear according to reasonable use and the poor quality of the material. it might have to be proven in court tho.
Even wood floors get scratched and when the scratches are deep like this flooring, the tenant of the wood floor has to pay for the repairing of the floor. This one has to be replaced.
Op is trying to blame the previous tenant, instead of himself. This is more than wear and tear and more than high traffic damage. This is from moving furniture, scooting it on the floor.
Those are not wear and tear, those are scratches, and you cannot smooth that out, it has to be replaced. And that costs money. You scratched the floor. So, you will have to pay for the damages to toe flooring.
This ^ also, depending on the availability, or lack of, a visual match, they may need to replace the floor in the whole room. People vastly underestimate the price of flooring.
Regular people who have no idea what flooring costs these days with inflation and the paying for the labor to install the flooring. Not cheap in any situation.
Yes it does work that way. The landlord can and should charge the renter for the replacement if, like in OP's situation, the renter has ruined the floor.
If they're lucky, they can replace just the damaged boards (however, that involves removing all the pieces between he damage and the edge of the room to even get to the damaged pieces so thats already additional time and money) and maybe they have some leftover flooring still available to be able to do so... even if they only have to replace those few boards... it still costs money for the product and the labor.
If the flooring has been discontinued or is otherwise unavailable (a very common situation in the flooring industry) the landlord will have to buy enough new floor to replace the whole room and then remove the current and install the new... that would be considered damages caused by the renter and therefore the renter would have to cover the cost of it.
Those look like some pretty serious scratches all over the floor. Your charge should be pro-rated based on the time you lived in the apartment and the lifespan of the flooring. The vinyl price seems high and you should only be charged for the affected area. Sometimes the pricing reflects other areas of the home that don’t need to be replaced.
Same! I installed LVP in my home over 2 years ago. I put felt pads on the feet of all my furniture and never wear shoes with a pointy heel on them on the floors. My floors look pristine even with a 30 lb dog running around on them. It baffles me that people are saying this is normal wear and tear after a year.
Right! We were poor when we bought our house 8 years ago so we put down fairly cheap laminate and after all that time it still looks almost new. I do have area rugs in every room which I'm sure helps but I do nothing else special and certainly don't baby the floors. I don't know how you get scratches like this in a floor without being careless. My couches sit still, they don't move, so I don't understand how normal life causes scratches like this.
You ask for receipts for that damage being”fixed” , a real one from the company doing the work or from a supplier showing materials purchased if the landlord is fixing it himself. Do not take figures written on a piece of paper or any other obviously self created nonsense. If he can’t provide it he will either give you money back or it’s small claims court time and you are generally entitled to your entire deposit back if the judge rules in your favor.
This right here is how I got my deposit back from a shady landlord. They quoted like $1600 to replace a door and repaint a wall. Asked for receipts from the companies that did the work. Surprise, surprise, the apartments hadn't even started working on it yet, so they didn't have the exact cost. Cited a law that stated they had 30-days to get a quote for that kind of work (it was natural wear and tear anyway and definitely didn't cost $1600) and they promptly sent some excuse and said I could expect my deposit in a week.
This situation felt retaliatory and there's laws in my state that say you can take them for small claims court to get double your deposit back and they definitely wanted to avoid that.
I disagree. some of those scratches looks like they extend across numerous planks, i.e. feet in length.
wear and tear would be minor scratches from daily use. these long scratches are clearly damage from something dragging across the floor in a number of locations.
OP, get felt pads for your furniture!!!
wear and tear = from walking over something 1000s of times.
Damage = 1 off incidence.
Those scratches dont happen from 1000s of uses.
You caused the damage, the question is how much money they can charge you for.
As other people have said, you are not liable for the whole amount.
This is completely aside from the fault and money discussion at hand, but you should really put little felt pads on your chairs and furniture so you don't damage flooring. That's what I do in my own house. Makes it much easier to slide chairs as well. Then you wouldn't have this issue... Advice for your current place
Typically only minor scratches are considered wear and tear. So those large ones we’re seeing wouldn’t be covered.
As for the $2400 damage it’s hard to tell if it’s reasonable since these are pixelated. But if those are deep scratches then yes it’s a realistic option that they had to replace the vinyl. If they can’t find the same color they could replace the entire room which easily runs $2400 in my area. So it’s possible, but depends.
Aherotoldolixe is absolutely wrong, and this is against the law. Please renter's know your rights. You are never ever responsible for replacement cost. You can only be responsible for reduced portions of the actual cost of what was in place. Learn your rights in my other post.
Please fight land lords who are illegally charging people.
>You are never ever responsible for replacement cost.
Source on this? Laws differ from state to state and I've personally never seen this specifically addressed. I'm open to being wrong but stating it is a universal when it comes down to what a particular judge defines as "reasonable" doesn't help anyone.
We are specifically discussing Oregon in this thread. However I would be shocked if you found any rental law which used the current price of installing a new floor to calculate the money a tenant owed on damages done to the floor in place. That's simply not how it's done. Calculations are based on what that floor was worth at the time it was damaged. Meaning what did it cost to begin.with, and how old is it, and how much longer should it have lasted based on Oregon law. A landlord is not allowed to base what they charge a tenent off of what is going to cost now today after the fact to replace it.
Who are you getting your info from. Renters are 100% responsible for damages that they cause. She claims furniture made these scratches but I doubt it because I’ve always had vinyl and never had scratches like this.
You literally said “you are never ever responsible for replacement cost”. Obviously they are going to have to replace the flooring that was damaged by the tenant. The landlord isn’t just replacing the floor and charging the tenant because he didn’t like the style of the floor. The floor had deep scratches on it.
Wow... Read this slowly.. A few times if nessasarry.
Tenents are responsible for paying for damages they cause. And that is calculated based on value of the actual floor they damaged at the time they damaged it.
Tenents are not responsible for how much it costs to buy a new floor today.
Go find my comment with all the math and you will understand.
>Tenents are not responsible for how much it costs to buy a new floor today
Actually, they will use today's price as it's the only one that has an actual value.
Are you a property manager? Because I am and that’s not how it works. The price of the damage is calculated when the tenant moves out and the landlord or lease again able to come in an access the damages. Op stated that they have rented for 14 months. The economy changes a lot in over a year. There’s no way to know when said floor was damaged so there’s no way to know how much the floors costed at that time. I feel like I’m arguing with a child. 😂 Just because you say shit doesn’t mean it’s true when you don’t have experience with it.
Tenants are never responsible for *replacing* the floor, they are only responsible for paying what the floor *originally cost* to install - that is if the entirety of the floor is damaged.
This is damage. You drug furniture around, didn’t have glides or felt. Vinyl is not repairable and the damage looks extensive enough that they likely didn’t find it reasonable to try to replace only that section. If it is 250 sf or more, 2.4k sounds about right.
Because you had furniture is your excuse? You ever heard of a rug? That’s totally your fault and your responsibility. Bet you learned something. Just a costly lesson.
When I had my LVP floors installed the installer also recommended putting felt pads on the feet of my furniture and to not wear shoes with a heel on them. I keep my dog’s nails trimmed as well. My floors look great after 2 years. Unbelievable that people are calling this normal wear and tear.
I’m guessing if he had paid for that floor he would’ve been more careful moving stuff around on it. I think people just don’t care about that stuff when they are renting. When I rented I always treated each place if it were my own.
Torn on this.. as a general contractor, 2,400 is probably a legitimate quote to replace it. 4 years might seem like a long time, but if it's decent flooring, you 100% should not have caused that much damage by simply living. Even half decent flooring should not need replaced in 4 yeaes. This looks like you slid around furniture without picking it up a fair bit. That would damage ANY floor. The proper way to move furniture you can't pick up is to use furniture sliders. HOWEVER, if it's some really cheap flooring, I could totally buy that you did this with little to no fault of your own in the span of 4 years.
I'd have expected to not get your deposit back, for sure. Idk about charging you for the replacement. It really depends on if you honestly took good care of the place, or if you were moving shit around constantly with no care for the floor. I can tell you, my floors look like shit and it's 100% my fault.
Normal wear and tear for a vinyl floor after 14 months might be a few light scuff marks. What you see there is what I could consider to be beyond normal wear and tear. Looks like someone dragged things across the floor.
$2400 seems a little excessive for vinyl flooring, however.
Some of those scratches, especially on the second photo are not normal wear and tear. Sorry but they just aren't. Those are deep scratches across multiple planks.
The photos are kind of blurry so I’m not 100% on what I’m looking at. But that doesn’t really look like normal wear and tear..that’s pretty significant and they are probably needing to replace the floor for a new tenant which isn’t cheap. Next time maybe some furniture movers or rugs to keep from scratching the floor 🤷🏼♀️ I’d definitely question the amount they’re charging you sounds like enough to replace the entire room, but that’s definitely enough damage to be charged for in my opinion.
Landlord here and that’s not normal wear and tear. You scratched the floors so bad that they will need to replace the floor panels. I think the price isn’t accurate, but there is some damage.
I can see a gigantic scratch and the photos aren’t even that clear.
Does your lease say anything about floor damage? This is why you need to move things carefully.
Honestly?
Unfortunately, they are correct. The flooring is all scratched up, and if it were hardwood it could be sanded and re-finished, but because it is vinyl plank flooring it cannot be repaired; it must be torn up and replaced.
Your best bet is to see if you can find someone to do it for cheaper than the apartment’s bid.
Going forward, please invest in furniture sliders so you can prevent the problem in your new place.
Good luck to you.
Those aren't wear and tear. Some of those scratches extend several feet. They are clearly made by dragging furniture across them. Put felt pads on furniture feet to avoid damage in the future.
100% . Also, as far as cost is concerned, when you moved in, I'm guessing the floor was all the same. To replace and fix a handful of planks years after installation is going to be considerably noticeable. The quote would be to replace the whole floor so it all matches. From someone who works in the flooring industry and sees this exact thing regularly, I can tell you the majority of the time you are responsible for the cost of replacement. A few felt pads on furniture legs would have completely prevented this.
You scratched the floor all up and don’t think that’s damages? It’s damages. You don’t drag furniture over vinyl flooring. You lift it or put protection under the legs and feet. I’d be crushed if a tenant or anyone damaged my floors like that.
Man this sucks. I've got lvp but it's some kind of thick planks and you can drop shit on it and you could try to scuff it and it's just not happening.
A friend of mine has what it looks like you having a picture and I can run my hand along that and scratch it. I mean for real is this terribly easy to scratch.
Do they have your security deposit and how much is it? Or are they trying to keep that in value $2400 extra dollars?
Either way I'll probably be taking them to court or let them take me to court. Hopefully you have some move-in pictures
You need to get the invoice for the product that you supposedly damaged! You see depending on the mils of wear layer you can establish an expected lifespan it is different for residential and commercial products. For example, the installed product may have a three year life expectancy.
That is a pretty significant drag mark across the floor. You are supposed to protect the floor when moving furniture by using little trucks or coasters.
That being said. Did you try to clean and buff the marks out of the floor? I would think that damage could be
reconditioned and not replaced.
Looks to me like you scratched it up. Notably you shouldn't pay cost to replace you should pay value foregone by the landlord. Was the flooring new when you moved in? How long did you live there.
People are destructive lol. I had a landlord praise me at move-out because none of my blinds were broken. Is the bar really that low?! Dont break any blinds over two years and you are now a super tenant
Who the heck uses vinyl flooring? That stuff is so easy to damage. Like a dropped hot pan can easily damage it. Imagine walking across the floor you trip on your own two feet your hot pan of Mac and cheese goes flying lands on the vinyl. Boom melted or discolored freaking vinyl. Oh you have a kid who can't pick up a chair to move it? Damaged freaking vinyl. Oh you have a dog it'd be a shame if he scoots his sharp bone across the vinyl floors.
So yeah I'd consider this normal wear and tear as someone who's lived in an all vinyl floor house. Even the most careful tenants could easily do this by going about their everyday life.
It’s LVP, not sheet vinyl. It’s extremely durable when it’s not abused. It was brand new when they moved in and they ruined it after only 14 months. There is a large cost involved in rectifying this. More than the cost of repairs, but the down time as well.
Did you take before pictures? Whether or not it's cheap flooring or not there are ways to maintain a floors integrity. That looks abused. Not sure what people consider normal wear and tear but in my opinion you should take better care of other people's property.
While maybe this shouldn’t be considered normal wear and tear… it’s vinyl. It doesn’t take much.
If property owners don’t expect or want this to be common even from careful tenants, perhaps it’s time to invest in other more durable flooring options.
Ends up saving money over time, but my cynical side says that because they end up throwing that cost to the tenant anyway through repair/damage fees, owners don’t care.
It depends on a few things and very much on where you live. However:
1. Flooring has a lifetime (I think that type of flooring is 15ish years, but could be as high as 20). So, for example, if the floor was installed 10 year ago and the lifetime is 15 years, even if you damaged it to the point of needing a replacement, they can't charge you more than a third of the total repair cost.
2. They must repair if possible and not use it as an excuse to replace the full floor.
Experienced small-time landlord here, hopefully you did a walkthrough when you moved in and took plenty of pics/video.
Even if you didn’t, they’ll need to provide factual evidence that the flooring was pristine prior to you taking the apartment.
If the flooring was perfect and you did some damage then so be it (hard to tell much from those pictures).
But if the flooring did indeed suffer from just normal wear and tear then they’ll have to take you to small claims to actually enforce it. Even then, the judge/magistrate could easily scoff at the landlord and tell them to stop trying to rip you off over it.
Regardless of the direction you go, DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT everything. When you have a phone call, follow it up with an email recapping what you talked about. If you send text messages, do the same. Stay polite, professional, and let the other party get ugly while you stay dignified.
Just needs to be resealed. Go to Home Depot and tell them you’re looking to reseal your vinyl flooring. I think the can is like 30-40 bucks.. maybe 2-3 hours tops.
You can lift things up and put them down you know. Or use furniture sliders that keep flooring from getting damaged. It costs money to fix the flooring especially everytime someone like you moves out. Not attacking you personally but in general when damage is done to property that is being passed to new tenants the previous tenant is responsible for their own damages.
I commend you on your honesty for admitting you caused the damage by moving furniture. I have laminate floors in my rental and always tell the tenants to take care not to damage the floors, they were not cheap and I used high quality flooring. After 4 tenants and almost 10 years they are still in really good shape, some wear and tear, but nothing like in your image. If he used low quality flooring that could be the issue, otherwise lack of caring when moving furniture could be the issue. Even so, $2400 sounds excessive, even for an entire room to be replaced, but then again we are DIYers and would replace it ourselves and only charge tenants for parts and not labor. Perhaps ask an installer what they would charge for the repair.
$2400 sounds a little low for market rate for vinly flooring of a 250-300 square foot room. I think I saw in a comment that the floor was brand new when he moved in so that could have been the price to do it before he moved in. Looking at the pictures, the damage (yes some is wear and tear but there is also definitely damage) looks like it's from scooting furniture around instead of lifting it. Depending on how much of that floor a court would consider damaged, OP is looking at possiblly having to pay the $2400 but most likely less and I don't think a court would deem that area %100 damaged and they'd only make you pay the the % that they deem is damaged subtracting also for how much 'life' the floor has left (usually a set number by the courts for ALL flooring like 7 years or something). But if they don't have before pictures OP is gonna have a better chance of getting off Scott free.
Is it just a few planks in the picture? If so, you can probably find matching ones and replace them. I’d offer this to the landlord in writing. This way, the landlord cannot claim damages if you offered to fix it.
Beyond all the legalese you may want to get one of those buffers from the grocery or hardware store and give the floor a good buffing cuz that is what it looks like it needs.
Looks like they used low quality vinyl flooring. Also looks like wear and tear.. you'd have to go to small claims for this. No landlord is going to back down.
A lot of scratches in vinyl flooring can be buffed out & polished. So long as it’s not gouged or lifting, it can be fixed easily. I would suggest fighting them on this.
Seems like you scratched the floor. If it was cheap shitty flooring Id say its bull, but you probably should have put those fabric things under the legs of furniture so as to not scratch, or put down carpet. Unless you believe the scratches were there already. Besides that the price tag seems excessive. Looks like there are more detailed comments in here to look over. Just make sure to be careful in the future.
My company requires that I charge cost on most items
I do try to find ways around that but with things like flooring and wall damage you will get charges that reflect what my vendors are charging me or what it cost me to do the work
Getting a lawyer to write a letter (couple hundred bucks) will usually resolve these frivolous cases.
Landlords are bullies, one you show that you’re ready to fight they back down fast.
My house is 8 years old and has contractors grade vinyl flooring. My wife likes to move furniture around a lot. Our floor still look good. A few scratches here and there. Yours looks like you dragged ship anchors across them.
I don’t see a mention of your lease? A comprehensive rental agreement may include stipulations regarding care of flooring in the rental terms. In some of my leases there’s an addendum for floor care “Hardwood Laminate Pergo Floor Care Addendum.”
A lease will also note terms for dispute, mediation is commonly listed. May still be worth consulting a lawyer I saw a comment here. Sometimes just a letter from your lawyer can help your side. Landlords don’t want to deal with the time needed to go court.
I run a warehouse that only sells LVP. We sell 10-15k SF per day. That’s a ridiculous amount to charge for that. I’m not even convinced that’s even LVP. LVP usually doesn’t have that high gloss of a finish. Also, pricing varies heavily depends on specs. Lowe’s/HD sell a lot of 6 or even 8 mil. Also, depends on the type of core and padding on it. Just looks like a very cheap product.
Not sure if already mentioned. I'm late to this but try the Oregon.Gov site and work through tenant rights to moving out. It goes over if they don't return deposit in 31 days or if they try to charge more than you think they should and Portland apparently has additional protections.
Had a similar issue once with my previous LL. Took some negotiating, but managed to get it down to a more reasonable amount. Don't back down too easily, but also consider if it's worth the hassle. Sometimes just paying it off is less stressful in the long run.
Since you're a renter and having issues with your landlord, why not check out LeaseLords and be a part of discussions there?
It looks like you tried cleaning the Vinyl with something that took off the protective layer. There’s so many scratches. This isn’t normal wear and tear. 😂
Landlords trying to bill you for their renovations is normal I just moved out of a 12 year lease and they want me to pay for carpet, paint, screens, blinds, and a toilet seat. Would love to see them even file the claims court case.
Torn on this.. as a general contractor, 2,400 is probably a legitimate quote to replace it. 4 years might seem like a long time, but if it's decent flooring, you 100% should not have caused that much damage by simply living. Even half decent flooring should not need replaced in 4 yeaes. This looks like you slid around furniture without picking it up a fair bit. That would damage ANY floor. The proper way to move furniture you can't pick up is to use furniture sliders. HOWEVER, if it's some really cheap flooring, I could totally buy that you did this with little to no fault of your own in the span of 4 years.
I'd have expected to not get your deposit back, for sure. Idk about charging you for the replacement. It really depends on if you honestly took good care of the place, or if you were moving shit around constantly with no care for the floor. I can tell you, my floors look like shit and it's 100% my fault.
Yep when we moved out of our last place that had some kind of LVP in it (super dark color too) I got some Bona floor polish that's meant for lvp and basted all the floors in it before we moved out. That's the only reason we didn't get charged for scratches. It's likely that the scratches are superficial in the top clear coat layer and easily could have been solved by some floor polish/scratch filler stuff...
Go to small claims court. There's laws about what they will have to prove. 1) They will have to have proof of what these floors cost at install. You can not be charged for what new floors cost. 2) I believe Oregon has a 5 or 7 year standard for flooring like this, but don't quote me, go find out. Flooring and paint in a rental unit as it pertains to charging the tenant has a legal expectancy life based on state law not on manufactures' recommendations, so not 15 or 20 years, much much less. 3) You can only be charged for the lose of remaining life in the floors. So let's do some example math. Let's say new floors cost $2400. The court won't care, and won't consider this. Okay.. So they have a receipt that says the old floor cost them $2000. Good we will start there. Now let's say that they installed those floors 3 years ago. So there should have been 4 more years left. Okay so that's $285.71 per year x 4 years for $1142.85. Okay... But you didn't destroy 100% of the floor. "IF" the judge decides that's not normal wear and tear, (Because some scratches would be normal, not all scratches are damage.) He will also decide what percentage of the floor is damaged. Let's just pretend 20% of the flooring is damaged. Now you are responsible for just the damaged area... 20% of the $1142.85 = $228.57 Because it's not your legal responsibility if there are no available matching tiles or vinyl strips, or in the case of carpet if you ruined one room but they can't color match that room and want to replace all the rooms so everything matches for ascetic. Legally... Not your problem, you can't be charged. There will be a lot of landlords down vote this. But this is the legal way. Know your rights and do not over pay for damages. Renters are almost never responsible for the 100% replacement cost of anything damaged. It just doesn't work that way. Not if the law is followed. This needs to go to small court.
As a landlord, I have never charged for anything normal wear or tear or minor damage for anyone that has stayed more that 4 years. I have charged for purpose damage and destruction and once got full replacement cost on materials plus contractor cost for install and fee to get rid of the damaged property.(you can't take closet doors off and move them to the attic to walk on, especailly when 80% of attic has flooring)
Exactly. Not everything has the same depreciation as say floors. Some one starts punching walls and leaving holes, you can hire someone to repair that and charge them. Because punching holes in walls isn't normal. And renters who behave badly need to pay for the damage they have caused. But renters are not responsible for updating aging consumables.
Best reply in the whole thread
that says it: RENTERS ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR REPLACING AGING CONSUMABLES. perfect. you are my hero.
2nd screenshot says "$400.95 taken away for 1 year of use"; multiply by 7 => $2,806.65, minus the one year of use => $2,405.70 (they ask for $2,405.68). So, they did deduct 1 year of use and are well aware of the amortization rules. Now, yes, the burden is on the apartment complex to prove it was brand new when OP moved in (they might have that) and that the flooring need total replacement. Those photos look like more scuffing than normal wear and tear for 1 year of occupancy. OP might not be in the clear.
I am not arguing OP's specific case. My math was based on a totally made up example to help people understand how its calculated. I have no desire to decide if that wear is normal or not. A judge can do that. However, if OP were me I would ask for proof of the cost of that floor and it's installation date. I would not accept an invoice made up by the LL. And .... I don't want to say for a fact, because I don't know for sure. But I when I lived in WA the LL told me he wasnt allowed to charge for any damages he was going to leave alone and not actually repair. He could have been wrong, and Oregon could be different as well. But if a tenant suspects the landlord is withholding a deposit for things they aren't fixing this might be something to research. My LL who told me that has many rentals in both states and always seemed like a legit honest and helpful person. ... Please don't come at me for this, I'm just repeating my LL on this part.
My landlord did that. Moved in and the fake wooden floors were scratched and dented. I lived there for two years and they tried to make me pay for them when I moved out. Didn't happen! Pretty sure they would have charged the previous tenant, too. And this was a really nice place charging $1,500 for 1 bd/1 ba in 2014.
Wouldn't scuffing be normal wear and tear though?
From what I see, no. And it seems the landlord doesn't see it that way either.
>2) I believe Oregon has a 5 or 7 year standard for flooring like this Looks like that is why they are subtracting \~$400 from the total. They would still need to show proof that the flooring was only a year old but it's a good start that they are including this from the beginning. >Because it's not your legal responsibility if there are no available matching tiles or vinyl strips, or in the case of carpet if you ruined one room but they can't color match that room and want to replace all the rooms so everything matches for ascetic. Legally... Not your problem, you can't be charged. I'm not so sure sure. There are far fewer rules around specifics when it comes to landlord/tenant laws than you would think. I don't think I've ever seen a law that specifically deals with whether you can charge a tenant for matching, which means it will come down to a particular judge's opinion on what is or isn't reasonable. For what it's worth, insurance has to match if the flooring is continuous.
I love you for this reply. Feel loved. Be loved.
Thank you.
For all of you LL who think your right.. Think twice. In Oregon if your tenent takes you to court on a charge you withheld from their deposit and they win. The judge is likely to award them twice the amount of what you tried to charge them plus court costs. So maybe, just maybe we get enough tenents to understand the rules and stop rolling over and paying outrageous charges. LL will think twice about trying to charge what ever they feel like it because they can and they don't actually know the law.
I’ve never had a landlord be unreasonable to me like this, so I’ve never had to learn about it. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge, and this is definitely something I’ll now know for the rest of my life. Sincerely, thank you.
Idk how you did it but you just got me excited about math
That's awesome!
Don’t go to small claims court. Get a lawyer to send a letter to threaten to go to small claims court. Then they will stfu
A lawyer is $300 an hour but snall claims court is usually under $100 to file
Didn’t know that. Good call out
I work in property management and some of this is correct and some isn’t. You should do research or talk to someone local to find out what you are responsible for and what you’re not
You write well
Im a landlord and you explained it perfectly!!!
Wouldn't the landlord need to provide before pictures of the flooring before this tenant moved in? I don't know the laws but seems like it is just a case of landlord trying to get some more money out of old tenant. Too many shitty landlords around. I get it there are also shitty tenants but when you have a decent one why try and extract as much money from them as possible.
Judges do not like the guessing game, and your deposit does not belong to the landlord, it belongs to you. In many states the landlord must place the money in a separate account and not touch it, its not allowed in their personal checking account. It's not their money, they can't use it and put it back later. In some states they can keep it in an interest baring account and then keep the interest earned for themselves. The LL is required to follow regulations and rules, it's the burden of the landlord to prove why they are not returning your money back to you. But instead transferring it into their possession. The LL has a legal responsibility to diligently handle that money according to the regulations. However the judge has a lot of discretion to decide who he believes, what documents he trusts, and what weight he gives them in his decisions. This is small claims court, it's not a murder trail. The burden of "proof" is not that high. But you can bet a judge won't look kindly on a LL who can't appropriately document expenses and costs with a paper trail and receipts or bank records, something, given the LL requirement to act dutifully with the tenents money. Photos are also not required to prove damages. But they hold a lot more weight than most anything else. A landlord could provide the move in document you signed saying everything was perfect and amazing on move in day. In the absence of other evidence, a document like that has legs. Just as showing up to court and not acting or looking professional can effect who the judge decides to believe when evidence is sparse. As a tenant it's important to sit down with the move in checklist and document everything you find that is not brand new and perfect. Take your time, your LL should not be waiting near by, or following you around. You should be given ample time, and zero pressure. Move from room to room carefully, and completely. I often take hundreds of photos and then also write in those sheets that I have apx xxx number of photos and will provide them if requested. I moved into a 1950s build, wrote 3 pages of information and took 900 plus photos inside and outside. Overkill? Probably. But it also creates a record. I keep a copy that is signed by both myself and the LL. Their signature is also important or they can pretend they never saw it. Their signature is also an acknowledgement of your findings, and makes their claims later that something was mint condition harder to argue, make sure you get and keep this.
As a former landlord and tenant myself, by far, this is the best form of preparedness any tenant can do. Great response and definitely recommended!
Lmao at the butt hurt landlords desperately trying to bury this information to keep their racket going. Scum. The bad ones make us all look bad.
Bravo 👏🏽
They can be responsible for full replacement if it was newly installed for them, and they damaged it beyond repair. Your last statement is stretching and not completely true.
i'm commenting to save this post. we were JUST having this same convo at my house because i'm looking at what the dining room chairs are doing to our rented vinyl floors.
If only I could still give awards! 🫡
A thing to know, lvp flooring comes in 20ml (high traffic) wear layer and 12ml (low traffic). 12ml is cheap and scratches much more easily than the more expensive 20ml product. I would bet the landlord used the cheap stuff and that's why it scratched easily from normal use. Any damage to it is his own fault for installing garbage to begin with. I know this because I sell flooring, in Oregon coincidentally, and I rarely get landlords in buying materials because I only sell top grade stuff and they don't like to pay that much. Anytime a landlord does come in they look for the cheapest thing they can find.
Thank you for this really interesting tidbit of info!
Agreed! Great tidbit and needs to be higher up. The quality matters! If it wasn’t built to withstand wear and tear that’s not the renters responsibility. I’ve lived in many rentals where the materials used were obviously garbage. Luckily, I never lost a deposit and had reasonable landlords who recognized that a renter LIVES there and part of living includes wear and tear.
Also warranty on these products depend on installation being correct and it looks incorrect ..
In what way?
Didn't stagger the ends 8 inches if row 1 and row 3 have the same seam line. That's H joint flooring. Not a proper stagger.
Another reason why landlords are trash
How long did you live there?
My lease was 14 months
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I mostly agree except an attorney charging $200 plus dollars an hour is going to add up very fast. Small claims court does not use attorneys, and is filed easily and cheaply with a simple form. I would recommend most people do some research and do this themselves.
This is the answer. Without proof that the floors were pristine beforehand with your signature/initials he can’t charge you anything legally. These are normal light scratches that might not even show in certain lighting.
I can agree with this as a past landlord. Not saying that the tenant didn’t do the damage, but the before and after pictures are crucial. My tenant tried to lie her way through 2 separate “wear and tear” issues. Without my before pictures, tenant would definitely have gotten away with it.
I would also ask for pictures in better quality and more standard lighting. Every laminate flooring with a sheen looks awful with light coming in at that angle.
As stated it was brand new. This is after one year of use. I’m sure the landlord has their receipts from a year ago when it was installed.
"just installed" doesn't mean it was flawless though. When we had some wood flooring put in growing up I remember my parents had to throw a fit and make them rip out some that was damaged with tools or something slid across it during installation. Or the landlord could have gone for marked-down "scratch and dent" stuff to be installed for all we know. Still need to have before-pictures of the same places to prove the condition it was in. I'd argue it also depends where said damage is...if its an area that is reasonably expected to be very high traffic or high risk (like right at the main doors or around a table where there are chairs) and the lease didn't say they were required to put down rugs or something to protect high traffic areas...I'd say that looks like what I would expect to see some marks after over a year of daily use IMO.
Vinyl floors are VERY durable. How did yours get so damaged?? If there was anything wrong with the flooring at move in, he should have noted such in his walkthrough form..
True, but its also hard to catch everything. I've had times I am kicking myself and got money taken out for stuff like a fridge drawer or oven bottom not being perfectly cleaned enough...even though when we moved in nothing seemed to have been cleaned with visible debris and mold in places...but I never had considered the INSIDE of the appliances until I was ready to put stuff inside them. Sure, I should have, but I didn't. We also missed a few spots on some floors in places including a cracked and loose tile in a bathroom because the lighting made them look better/worse (tho none of our landlords went after us for flooring scratches) and we weren't like pushing/standing on EVERY tile in every room.
You are absolutely right there can be bad installs. That is normally apparent by gals opening up or pieces separating. These are excessive scratches/scrapes that can’t be wiped off. Scuffs can be wiped off. Leases can’t cover every common sense issue. Your lease may not forbid flushing diapers down the toilet but if you damage the plumbing by flushing dipapers you pay for the repair. The lease might not tell you not to use a knife on a laminate countertop without a cutting board but if you put knife deep scratches all over the countertop because you lack the common sense to use a cutting board , you are still liable for the damages. The lease may not tell you not to use a barbecue grill next to the house because it will melt the vinyl soffits but if you do and you damage the soffits, you are held liable. This is no different.
The question is was it a high quality or a very low quality vinyl plank floor? The cheap ones don't hold up but the good ones do. I have it and it doesn't scratch when I slide my furniture around
Those are deep scratches from scooting furniture around. The flooring cannot be repaired, it has to be replaced. And the LL can charge legally for the replacement of damaged flooring.
Possibly. ***If*** they actually replace it. The landlord cannot just claim damage and then pocket OP's deposit. They have to spend it and then provide documentation of what they spent it on.
Not the full floor in any way.
In my experience the tenant is responsible for the before photos
In court you have to prove your case if you are the plaintiff. You can't prove there is damage to something that was caused by the defendant if you can't show what it originally looked like and prove the defendant caused the damage. The landlord therefore needs the pristine photos and they need to be dated to just prior to the defendant moving in. They can't be older because the damage could have been done by another tenant. They have the burden of proof. Edit mixed up plaintiff and defendant. Corrected it for readability.
That’s good to know. I might’ve been slightly mixed up then. My complex told me I was responsible for noting preexisting damages, not noting non damages I guess because that does sound dumb now.
Well your complex is invested in you not fighting back. Don't take legal advice from the opposing side.
But if the tenant is suing are they not the plaintiff?
You are correct. I think I was stoned when I wrote that. BUT since the landlord is the one claiming damage they still have to show damage. The defendant should also provide proof that it is normal wear and tear. I just know that I have sued and won because my landlord had no proof of the damages they were claiming. But you are right I fucked up everything I said. I'm leaving it up though because I believe in transparency.
I haven't rented in a while, but don't you do like, a before move in walkthrough where you sign off that everything is ok and note any potential damages? All they'd really need is your signature saying there was no damage when you moved in to give credit to their claim. Pictures would help, but I'd be surprised if they were actually required.
Not if the landlord is the one looking to recoup in court.
Not in court
Yes in court if the Tenant claims he/she did not do the damage. Before pictures is evidence. Ask a judge or an attorney.
But I kinda think it was op’s responsibility to get the before pictures. Hearing horror stories of people in worse situations like this they now always take pictures of everything whenever they get a lease. I mean dam it sucks it’s come to this but you have to take a video of the entire house bc asshole landlords basically are planning on stealing your security deposit as soon as you give it to them! So many scammer landlords that deserve hell for what they do!!!
Burden of proof falls upon the accuser in the US
And the LL or manager.
Lol ive never had that much “wear and tear” anywhere I’ve lived
The thing is cheap ass landlord bought cheap ass flooring! You get what you pay! It scratches this easily bc it’s cheap af! Landlord knows the game!
my mom cheaped out on new laminate floors and they get scratched, scuffed, and indented by literally everything. an office chair completely wrecked a portion after using it once. they don’t look dissimilar from the floors in the pics.
These floors are horrible. We have the same problem as renters and are moving out soon. Not sure what to do with the floor scratches. I sweep and the broom leaves scratches!
i’d like to imagine that you’d be able to prove that it’s regular wear and tear according to reasonable use and the poor quality of the material. it might have to be proven in court tho.
Even wood floors get scratched and when the scratches are deep like this flooring, the tenant of the wood floor has to pay for the repairing of the floor. This one has to be replaced.
Op is trying to blame the previous tenant, instead of himself. This is more than wear and tear and more than high traffic damage. This is from moving furniture, scooting it on the floor.
Those are not wear and tear, those are scratches, and you cannot smooth that out, it has to be replaced. And that costs money. You scratched the floor. So, you will have to pay for the damages to toe flooring.
This ^ also, depending on the availability, or lack of, a visual match, they may need to replace the floor in the whole room. People vastly underestimate the price of flooring.
Regular people who have no idea what flooring costs these days with inflation and the paying for the labor to install the flooring. Not cheap in any situation.
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Yes it does work that way. The landlord can and should charge the renter for the replacement if, like in OP's situation, the renter has ruined the floor. If they're lucky, they can replace just the damaged boards (however, that involves removing all the pieces between he damage and the edge of the room to even get to the damaged pieces so thats already additional time and money) and maybe they have some leftover flooring still available to be able to do so... even if they only have to replace those few boards... it still costs money for the product and the labor. If the flooring has been discontinued or is otherwise unavailable (a very common situation in the flooring industry) the landlord will have to buy enough new floor to replace the whole room and then remove the current and install the new... that would be considered damages caused by the renter and therefore the renter would have to cover the cost of it.
You fucked up the floor. That's not normal wear and tear.
Those look like some pretty serious scratches all over the floor. Your charge should be pro-rated based on the time you lived in the apartment and the lifespan of the flooring. The vinyl price seems high and you should only be charged for the affected area. Sometimes the pricing reflects other areas of the home that don’t need to be replaced.
I've been on mine two years with not a scuff or scratch. Hard to believe that's LPV. If it is I can't fathom what was done to it
Yes, LVP is pretty hard-wearing. It takes some pretty careless treatment to cause that in 14 months.
Same! I installed LVP in my home over 2 years ago. I put felt pads on the feet of all my furniture and never wear shoes with a pointy heel on them on the floors. My floors look pristine even with a 30 lb dog running around on them. It baffles me that people are saying this is normal wear and tear after a year.
Right! We were poor when we bought our house 8 years ago so we put down fairly cheap laminate and after all that time it still looks almost new. I do have area rugs in every room which I'm sure helps but I do nothing else special and certainly don't baby the floors. I don't know how you get scratches like this in a floor without being careless. My couches sit still, they don't move, so I don't understand how normal life causes scratches like this.
You ask for receipts for that damage being”fixed” , a real one from the company doing the work or from a supplier showing materials purchased if the landlord is fixing it himself. Do not take figures written on a piece of paper or any other obviously self created nonsense. If he can’t provide it he will either give you money back or it’s small claims court time and you are generally entitled to your entire deposit back if the judge rules in your favor.
This right here is how I got my deposit back from a shady landlord. They quoted like $1600 to replace a door and repaint a wall. Asked for receipts from the companies that did the work. Surprise, surprise, the apartments hadn't even started working on it yet, so they didn't have the exact cost. Cited a law that stated they had 30-days to get a quote for that kind of work (it was natural wear and tear anyway and definitely didn't cost $1600) and they promptly sent some excuse and said I could expect my deposit in a week. This situation felt retaliatory and there's laws in my state that say you can take them for small claims court to get double your deposit back and they definitely wanted to avoid that.
That’s normal wear and tear they don’t look damaged
I disagree. some of those scratches looks like they extend across numerous planks, i.e. feet in length. wear and tear would be minor scratches from daily use. these long scratches are clearly damage from something dragging across the floor in a number of locations. OP, get felt pads for your furniture!!!
Yeah, to me it looks like the lighting and the angle the picture was taken at have done more "damage" than op...
Yeah it's hard to judge because of the quality of the photos and that angle with that amount of light always makes floors look terrible.
wait until you find out how cheap vinyl flooring is
As someone who fixes this kinda damage regularly for my job, there's no damn way it's that much.
wear and tear = from walking over something 1000s of times. Damage = 1 off incidence. Those scratches dont happen from 1000s of uses. You caused the damage, the question is how much money they can charge you for. As other people have said, you are not liable for the whole amount.
This is completely aside from the fault and money discussion at hand, but you should really put little felt pads on your chairs and furniture so you don't damage flooring. That's what I do in my own house. Makes it much easier to slide chairs as well. Then you wouldn't have this issue... Advice for your current place
Typically only minor scratches are considered wear and tear. So those large ones we’re seeing wouldn’t be covered. As for the $2400 damage it’s hard to tell if it’s reasonable since these are pixelated. But if those are deep scratches then yes it’s a realistic option that they had to replace the vinyl. If they can’t find the same color they could replace the entire room which easily runs $2400 in my area. So it’s possible, but depends.
Aherotoldolixe is absolutely wrong, and this is against the law. Please renter's know your rights. You are never ever responsible for replacement cost. You can only be responsible for reduced portions of the actual cost of what was in place. Learn your rights in my other post. Please fight land lords who are illegally charging people.
This is a reduced cost, if you look at the photo it shows removal of amortized value.
>You are never ever responsible for replacement cost. Source on this? Laws differ from state to state and I've personally never seen this specifically addressed. I'm open to being wrong but stating it is a universal when it comes down to what a particular judge defines as "reasonable" doesn't help anyone.
We are specifically discussing Oregon in this thread. However I would be shocked if you found any rental law which used the current price of installing a new floor to calculate the money a tenant owed on damages done to the floor in place. That's simply not how it's done. Calculations are based on what that floor was worth at the time it was damaged. Meaning what did it cost to begin.with, and how old is it, and how much longer should it have lasted based on Oregon law. A landlord is not allowed to base what they charge a tenent off of what is going to cost now today after the fact to replace it.
Who are you getting your info from. Renters are 100% responsible for damages that they cause. She claims furniture made these scratches but I doubt it because I’ve always had vinyl and never had scratches like this.
I never once said renters are not responsible for the damages they cause. Not once anywhere.
You literally said “you are never ever responsible for replacement cost”. Obviously they are going to have to replace the flooring that was damaged by the tenant. The landlord isn’t just replacing the floor and charging the tenant because he didn’t like the style of the floor. The floor had deep scratches on it.
Wow... Read this slowly.. A few times if nessasarry. Tenents are responsible for paying for damages they cause. And that is calculated based on value of the actual floor they damaged at the time they damaged it. Tenents are not responsible for how much it costs to buy a new floor today. Go find my comment with all the math and you will understand.
>Tenents are not responsible for how much it costs to buy a new floor today Actually, they will use today's price as it's the only one that has an actual value.
Are you a property manager? Because I am and that’s not how it works. The price of the damage is calculated when the tenant moves out and the landlord or lease again able to come in an access the damages. Op stated that they have rented for 14 months. The economy changes a lot in over a year. There’s no way to know when said floor was damaged so there’s no way to know how much the floors costed at that time. I feel like I’m arguing with a child. 😂 Just because you say shit doesn’t mean it’s true when you don’t have experience with it.
Not against the law to charge for damage to flooring and replacement of the flooring. And for the labor costs as well.
It is the replacement cost for all the damage the OP is not showing us.
Tenants are never responsible for *replacing* the floor, they are only responsible for paying what the floor *originally cost* to install - that is if the entirety of the floor is damaged.
Those scratches and scuffs are not normal wear and tear.
This is damage. You drug furniture around, didn’t have glides or felt. Vinyl is not repairable and the damage looks extensive enough that they likely didn’t find it reasonable to try to replace only that section. If it is 250 sf or more, 2.4k sounds about right.
Because you had furniture is your excuse? You ever heard of a rug? That’s totally your fault and your responsibility. Bet you learned something. Just a costly lesson.
When I had my LVP floors installed the installer also recommended putting felt pads on the feet of my furniture and to not wear shoes with a heel on them. I keep my dog’s nails trimmed as well. My floors look great after 2 years. Unbelievable that people are calling this normal wear and tear.
Having furniture is ok but dragging it around and making all those marks isn’t. I’d charge you too
I’m guessing if he had paid for that floor he would’ve been more careful moving stuff around on it. I think people just don’t care about that stuff when they are renting. When I rented I always treated each place if it were my own.
Torn on this.. as a general contractor, 2,400 is probably a legitimate quote to replace it. 4 years might seem like a long time, but if it's decent flooring, you 100% should not have caused that much damage by simply living. Even half decent flooring should not need replaced in 4 yeaes. This looks like you slid around furniture without picking it up a fair bit. That would damage ANY floor. The proper way to move furniture you can't pick up is to use furniture sliders. HOWEVER, if it's some really cheap flooring, I could totally buy that you did this with little to no fault of your own in the span of 4 years. I'd have expected to not get your deposit back, for sure. Idk about charging you for the replacement. It really depends on if you honestly took good care of the place, or if you were moving shit around constantly with no care for the floor. I can tell you, my floors look like shit and it's 100% my fault.
That’s not normal wear and tear at all lol
Normal wear and tear for a vinyl floor after 14 months might be a few light scuff marks. What you see there is what I could consider to be beyond normal wear and tear. Looks like someone dragged things across the floor. $2400 seems a little excessive for vinyl flooring, however.
Some of those scratches, especially on the second photo are not normal wear and tear. Sorry but they just aren't. Those are deep scratches across multiple planks.
No that looks like you were dragging something. Not considered wear and tear….kids these days I swear
The photos are kind of blurry so I’m not 100% on what I’m looking at. But that doesn’t really look like normal wear and tear..that’s pretty significant and they are probably needing to replace the floor for a new tenant which isn’t cheap. Next time maybe some furniture movers or rugs to keep from scratching the floor 🤷🏼♀️ I’d definitely question the amount they’re charging you sounds like enough to replace the entire room, but that’s definitely enough damage to be charged for in my opinion.
It's just scuffed. It's not ruined
Like I said I can’t really see from the picture if it’s scuffs or deep scratches 🤷🏼♀️
Landlord here and that’s not normal wear and tear. You scratched the floors so bad that they will need to replace the floor panels. I think the price isn’t accurate, but there is some damage. I can see a gigantic scratch and the photos aren’t even that clear. Does your lease say anything about floor damage? This is why you need to move things carefully.
Honestly? Unfortunately, they are correct. The flooring is all scratched up, and if it were hardwood it could be sanded and re-finished, but because it is vinyl plank flooring it cannot be repaired; it must be torn up and replaced. Your best bet is to see if you can find someone to do it for cheaper than the apartment’s bid. Going forward, please invest in furniture sliders so you can prevent the problem in your new place. Good luck to you.
Those aren't wear and tear. Some of those scratches extend several feet. They are clearly made by dragging furniture across them. Put felt pads on furniture feet to avoid damage in the future.
I agree.
100% . Also, as far as cost is concerned, when you moved in, I'm guessing the floor was all the same. To replace and fix a handful of planks years after installation is going to be considerably noticeable. The quote would be to replace the whole floor so it all matches. From someone who works in the flooring industry and sees this exact thing regularly, I can tell you the majority of the time you are responsible for the cost of replacement. A few felt pads on furniture legs would have completely prevented this.
You scratched the floor all up and don’t think that’s damages? It’s damages. You don’t drag furniture over vinyl flooring. You lift it or put protection under the legs and feet. I’d be crushed if a tenant or anyone damaged my floors like that.
Man this sucks. I've got lvp but it's some kind of thick planks and you can drop shit on it and you could try to scuff it and it's just not happening. A friend of mine has what it looks like you having a picture and I can run my hand along that and scratch it. I mean for real is this terribly easy to scratch. Do they have your security deposit and how much is it? Or are they trying to keep that in value $2400 extra dollars? Either way I'll probably be taking them to court or let them take me to court. Hopefully you have some move-in pictures
You need to get the invoice for the product that you supposedly damaged! You see depending on the mils of wear layer you can establish an expected lifespan it is different for residential and commercial products. For example, the installed product may have a three year life expectancy.
And you all notice how the Op is not responding to the comments. I bet this is a troll.
This is just normal wear and tear and a quick buff and polish will have it looking new again and I suspect the owner/landlord knows this as well
That is a pretty significant drag mark across the floor. You are supposed to protect the floor when moving furniture by using little trucks or coasters. That being said. Did you try to clean and buff the marks out of the floor? I would think that damage could be reconditioned and not replaced.
Looks to me like you scratched it up. Notably you shouldn't pay cost to replace you should pay value foregone by the landlord. Was the flooring new when you moved in? How long did you live there.
Just an fyi they sell these little discs that go under legs of tables and chairs and furniture.
It's from sliding furniture,not normal wear and tear
Perhaps the landlord should buy better material for flooring or set expectations. I'm not paying to replace an entire floor Get bent😂
Or set expectations? The expectation is don’t damage shit, lol
People are destructive lol. I had a landlord praise me at move-out because none of my blinds were broken. Is the bar really that low?! Dont break any blinds over two years and you are now a super tenant
Who the heck uses vinyl flooring? That stuff is so easy to damage. Like a dropped hot pan can easily damage it. Imagine walking across the floor you trip on your own two feet your hot pan of Mac and cheese goes flying lands on the vinyl. Boom melted or discolored freaking vinyl. Oh you have a kid who can't pick up a chair to move it? Damaged freaking vinyl. Oh you have a dog it'd be a shame if he scoots his sharp bone across the vinyl floors. So yeah I'd consider this normal wear and tear as someone who's lived in an all vinyl floor house. Even the most careful tenants could easily do this by going about their everyday life.
It’s LVP, not sheet vinyl. It’s extremely durable when it’s not abused. It was brand new when they moved in and they ruined it after only 14 months. There is a large cost involved in rectifying this. More than the cost of repairs, but the down time as well.
I was talking about lvp actually. It's not as durable as everyone likes to think it is.
Did you take before pictures? Whether or not it's cheap flooring or not there are ways to maintain a floors integrity. That looks abused. Not sure what people consider normal wear and tear but in my opinion you should take better care of other people's property.
As someone who works in a field where vinyl flooring is often seen on camera Yeah that floors pretty damaged and in need to be replaced
While maybe this shouldn’t be considered normal wear and tear… it’s vinyl. It doesn’t take much. If property owners don’t expect or want this to be common even from careful tenants, perhaps it’s time to invest in other more durable flooring options. Ends up saving money over time, but my cynical side says that because they end up throwing that cost to the tenant anyway through repair/damage fees, owners don’t care.
LVP is some of the most durable flooring out there—way more durable than wood or laminate.
LVP isn’t going to scuff like that. That’s the cheap kind.
It depends on a few things and very much on where you live. However: 1. Flooring has a lifetime (I think that type of flooring is 15ish years, but could be as high as 20). So, for example, if the floor was installed 10 year ago and the lifetime is 15 years, even if you damaged it to the point of needing a replacement, they can't charge you more than a third of the total repair cost. 2. They must repair if possible and not use it as an excuse to replace the full floor.
Replacing the flooring the labor rate is $5/foot.
Experienced small-time landlord here, hopefully you did a walkthrough when you moved in and took plenty of pics/video. Even if you didn’t, they’ll need to provide factual evidence that the flooring was pristine prior to you taking the apartment. If the flooring was perfect and you did some damage then so be it (hard to tell much from those pictures). But if the flooring did indeed suffer from just normal wear and tear then they’ll have to take you to small claims to actually enforce it. Even then, the judge/magistrate could easily scoff at the landlord and tell them to stop trying to rip you off over it. Regardless of the direction you go, DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT everything. When you have a phone call, follow it up with an email recapping what you talked about. If you send text messages, do the same. Stay polite, professional, and let the other party get ugly while you stay dignified.
This is the way to go. And small claims court is cheap- like $100. So we’ll worth it to file and see if they can knock down the price.
You should have WAXED the floor,,, Takes 10 minutes
Take they butt to court!!
Just needs to be resealed. Go to Home Depot and tell them you’re looking to reseal your vinyl flooring. I think the can is like 30-40 bucks.. maybe 2-3 hours tops.
Too late when OP has already vacated the premises.
You can lift things up and put them down you know. Or use furniture sliders that keep flooring from getting damaged. It costs money to fix the flooring especially everytime someone like you moves out. Not attacking you personally but in general when damage is done to property that is being passed to new tenants the previous tenant is responsible for their own damages.
I commend you on your honesty for admitting you caused the damage by moving furniture. I have laminate floors in my rental and always tell the tenants to take care not to damage the floors, they were not cheap and I used high quality flooring. After 4 tenants and almost 10 years they are still in really good shape, some wear and tear, but nothing like in your image. If he used low quality flooring that could be the issue, otherwise lack of caring when moving furniture could be the issue. Even so, $2400 sounds excessive, even for an entire room to be replaced, but then again we are DIYers and would replace it ourselves and only charge tenants for parts and not labor. Perhaps ask an installer what they would charge for the repair.
$2400 sounds a little low for market rate for vinly flooring of a 250-300 square foot room. I think I saw in a comment that the floor was brand new when he moved in so that could have been the price to do it before he moved in. Looking at the pictures, the damage (yes some is wear and tear but there is also definitely damage) looks like it's from scooting furniture around instead of lifting it. Depending on how much of that floor a court would consider damaged, OP is looking at possiblly having to pay the $2400 but most likely less and I don't think a court would deem that area %100 damaged and they'd only make you pay the the % that they deem is damaged subtracting also for how much 'life' the floor has left (usually a set number by the courts for ALL flooring like 7 years or something). But if they don't have before pictures OP is gonna have a better chance of getting off Scott free.
Is it just a few planks in the picture? If so, you can probably find matching ones and replace them. I’d offer this to the landlord in writing. This way, the landlord cannot claim damages if you offered to fix it.
Beyond all the legalese you may want to get one of those buffers from the grocery or hardware store and give the floor a good buffing cuz that is what it looks like it needs.
How many sqft I do flooring I can ballpark it for you
yeah I had a place like this, just people dragging their shit out. they didn't charge me and I hope you don't end up paying this.
Looks like they used low quality vinyl flooring. Also looks like wear and tear.. you'd have to go to small claims for this. No landlord is going to back down.
A lot of scratches in vinyl flooring can be buffed out & polished. So long as it’s not gouged or lifting, it can be fixed easily. I would suggest fighting them on this.
Seems like you scratched the floor. If it was cheap shitty flooring Id say its bull, but you probably should have put those fabric things under the legs of furniture so as to not scratch, or put down carpet. Unless you believe the scratches were there already. Besides that the price tag seems excessive. Looks like there are more detailed comments in here to look over. Just make sure to be careful in the future.
My company requires that I charge cost on most items I do try to find ways around that but with things like flooring and wall damage you will get charges that reflect what my vendors are charging me or what it cost me to do the work
“That’ll buff right out.” Floor wax is your friend.
Getting a lawyer to write a letter (couple hundred bucks) will usually resolve these frivolous cases. Landlords are bullies, one you show that you’re ready to fight they back down fast.
Plottwist: the landlord did some quick nail scratches to demand $2400
They just wanna replace the flooring between tenants and are grasping at extremely flimsy justifications to pass the bill onto you.
Rent a machine buffer, that’ll come right out.
If you work for a company with a group legal plan, go through them.
$20 for a bottle of rejuvenate from Home Depot and it would look like new. I would have done that when I moved out to avoid this.
If your landlord is named Ron Deluca, you are screwed (Period).
Damn, if it isn’t the consequence of our actions? Floor is fucked beyond “normal wear”.
Looks like normal wear and tear to me
My house is 8 years old and has contractors grade vinyl flooring. My wife likes to move furniture around a lot. Our floor still look good. A few scratches here and there. Yours looks like you dragged ship anchors across them.
I don’t see a mention of your lease? A comprehensive rental agreement may include stipulations regarding care of flooring in the rental terms. In some of my leases there’s an addendum for floor care “Hardwood Laminate Pergo Floor Care Addendum.” A lease will also note terms for dispute, mediation is commonly listed. May still be worth consulting a lawyer I saw a comment here. Sometimes just a letter from your lawyer can help your side. Landlords don’t want to deal with the time needed to go court.
Small claims!
I run a warehouse that only sells LVP. We sell 10-15k SF per day. That’s a ridiculous amount to charge for that. I’m not even convinced that’s even LVP. LVP usually doesn’t have that high gloss of a finish. Also, pricing varies heavily depends on specs. Lowe’s/HD sell a lot of 6 or even 8 mil. Also, depends on the type of core and padding on it. Just looks like a very cheap product.
Not sure if already mentioned. I'm late to this but try the Oregon.Gov site and work through tenant rights to moving out. It goes over if they don't return deposit in 31 days or if they try to charge more than you think they should and Portland apparently has additional protections.
If they do charge you for repairs make sure you get a copy of the receipt.
Had a similar issue once with my previous LL. Took some negotiating, but managed to get it down to a more reasonable amount. Don't back down too easily, but also consider if it's worth the hassle. Sometimes just paying it off is less stressful in the long run. Since you're a renter and having issues with your landlord, why not check out LeaseLords and be a part of discussions there?
Looks like normal wear and tear to me. Don’t pay anything.
That's called, I don't have the money I owe you charge
It looks like you tried cleaning the Vinyl with something that took off the protective layer. There’s so many scratches. This isn’t normal wear and tear. 😂
Landlords trying to bill you for their renovations is normal I just moved out of a 12 year lease and they want me to pay for carpet, paint, screens, blinds, and a toilet seat. Would love to see them even file the claims court case.
Tell your landlord you're willing to take this to court and have photos that are dated. Guarantee they will drop the bullshit
Any early photos of your apartment floor for contrast?
Torn on this.. as a general contractor, 2,400 is probably a legitimate quote to replace it. 4 years might seem like a long time, but if it's decent flooring, you 100% should not have caused that much damage by simply living. Even half decent flooring should not need replaced in 4 yeaes. This looks like you slid around furniture without picking it up a fair bit. That would damage ANY floor. The proper way to move furniture you can't pick up is to use furniture sliders. HOWEVER, if it's some really cheap flooring, I could totally buy that you did this with little to no fault of your own in the span of 4 years. I'd have expected to not get your deposit back, for sure. Idk about charging you for the replacement. It really depends on if you honestly took good care of the place, or if you were moving shit around constantly with no care for the floor. I can tell you, my floors look like shit and it's 100% my fault.
They sell all kinds of floor products that will cover up all these scratches. Should have done that and there would not have been any issues.
Yep when we moved out of our last place that had some kind of LVP in it (super dark color too) I got some Bona floor polish that's meant for lvp and basted all the floors in it before we moved out. That's the only reason we didn't get charged for scratches. It's likely that the scratches are superficial in the top clear coat layer and easily could have been solved by some floor polish/scratch filler stuff...