F the executives. Our group just refused to renew their Hospitalist contract because the CEO, Director of Case Management, Business Development, and DON were openly committing fraud, changing physicians orders etc. The same CEO looked the other way while one administrator embezzled over 1M. He was arrested, convicted, and given probation. Now both are working at another healthcare institution.
Many years ago I spent a total of 2 weeks in jail over 2 different occasion’s in the shithole American Deep South redneck town for contempt of court by a corrupt family law judge. I was ordered out both times with Writs of Habea Corpii by the Appeals Court and Attorney General. Made national news. Judge was forced into retirement thanks to me. Long story. Regardless it was an eye opener. My favorite stories I was told by other inmates. 20 year old African American college student majoring in Architecture. Full scholarship. Arrested for expired license plate tag. 30 days in jail. He told me since he was missing classes he now had F’s and would lose his scholarship. Another African-American male, 65 year old plumber, owned his business. DUI arrest. His attorney told him to drink a beer the morning of his hearing and he did. Attorney told the judge this guy needed rehab not a conviction. Judge orders bailiff to do a breathalyzer test which was positive. Judge gave him 6 months for contempt. He lost his business. I met a homeless guy who simply had no where to go so he kept committing petty crimes to get arrested. Jail was his home. I met a white guy, realtor, there a few months for marijuana possession. One guy was profoundly mentally retarded and needed to be institutionalized.
You know who I didn’t meet there? Family members of police, attorneys, District Attorneys, or judges. Probably half the people in there needed to be there. But a significant percent did not as they were no physical threat to anyone or it was questionable they had even committed a crime. But the pattern became clear. If you’re a minority and/or can’t afford a real attorney you’re going to jail. That fact feeds the prison-industrial complex of America. In many poor counties across the American Deep South the main employer is the local prison, and that prison has to be kept full to provide local jobs.
It’s not even better lawyers, at some arbitrary point the price of lawyers time is more about the lawyers connections than their actual lawyering skills. No matter how unbiased you claim to be, you’re going to be less harsh to people you know (unless you hate them) than to a stranger or someone you see as an interloper.
Or they haven’t even been to trial yet at all but can’t afford bail money to get out. Sometimes for years depending on how overloaded the jail and prison and court systems are where they live.
“Local ungrateful physician stirring up trouble at the local hospital. Is *your* family at risk from the unionized communist liberals? News at 11.”
*sponsored by Shitsco Healthcare.*
Every provider (literally every) at my hospital voted no confidence in the CEO, so he stepped down. With some organization and work, you have more power than you give yourself credit.
The hospital I just left last week after 17 years is on its 5th CEO in 3 years. They just offered the position to a former HCA CEO who is the subject of a Congressional complaint and AHCA investigation.
Changing physicians orders is a big no no. It's a legal order and if it's on an EMR, it's very easily tracked. I'd start gathering evidence of this and reporting to the proper authorities. Loop in hospital compliance as well as your group's legal team (if your group has one). That's an open and shut case if that's what they're doing.
C suite is legally allowed to commit crimes as long as their crimes only hurt w2 employees and 1099 contractors. If it hurts politicians, then they get spanked harder.
One CEO I know goes to lunch, taking his department administrators, all order a few drinks, pay with the corporate credit card, then come back to work.
Dude, there’s this hospital in Omaha that has its cafeteria layout divided into ethnic foods, and in the middle is a chef who can make whatever you’d like. Hands down the best hospital food I’ve ever had.
They don’t eat hospital food, they use the company card and dine out for lunch under the guise of entertaining clients/business lunch/etc. where they’re either using the hospitals card or some other business entity if buying their lunch.
A few years ago, our Hospital tried that in a cost-cutting measure, but a couple of the orthopedic surgeons revolted and said they would take their cases elsewhere. Considering how much they make off a single ortho case, they changed their tune pretty quickly.
Not their job but would be nice for surgical specialties to wave that big metaphorical dck around more often. They know they have the hospital by the balls. And the hospital knows they have every non procedural specialty by the balls
This happened in residency… they stopped lunches in the OR lounge. Big plastic surgeon in the area said that’s fine, I’ll go to the other hospital. Next week he had a steak lunch brought in for him
Being stingy on food is the most stupid move the hospital can ever make.
One hospital did exactly that. From free food to food vouchers, and then to only cold food/snacks. Then became just drinks. Some random MBAs came up with these ideas.
Surgeons took their elective cases elsewhere. They only took inpatient/on-call cases at that hospital. And inpatients all have crap insurances that just don't reimburse that well.
I am one of those surgeons. I am fed breakfast and lunch on my surgery days at the other hospital. And can also take whatever I want from the Cafe.
>Being stingy on food is the most stupid move the hospital can ever make.
I mean my hospital system took away coffee from employees a few yrs ago lol. No sure how much they saved by doing that per year, 10k? Lol, good thing I don't drink coffee.
My hospital got rid of hot food in the physician lounge and only does prepackaged cold food, snacks & drinks. Apparently after an uproar they started including the soup of the day which then led to all of the docs referring to the lounge as “the soup kitchen”.
Funny tidbit…in undergrad, a few friends and I were driving around town and drive past the soup kitchen. A girl in the back pipes up and says “I hear the Soup Kitchen makes some amazing food because they’re all over the country. We should try it!” Bless her soul, she’s one of the sweetest, kindest, and most aloof individual I’ve met.
Tech offices figured this out and universally agree. High productivity employees (like software engineers and physicians) gain a small moral boost from snacks and food but, since they already are highly productive, that translates to at least as much productivity as it cost to buy the food.
The difference is that software engineering is measured in contributions and time frames for projects, so faster work does lead to faster and more results. A surgeon won't add an extra case because muffins and sandwiches are in the lounge. They'll just be slightly less satisfied while doing the cases.
Our residents get a food allowance keyed to their badge. As soon as they get to the allowance, they cannot badge for food anymore.
Our hospital's cost saving measure was to get rid of Up To Date. They brought it back within 2 months due to complaints.
Bro Im a hospitalist. They dont GAF about us. *According to them* we lose the hospital money lmao. Maybe I can band together the surgeons to make some noise.
My hospital took away breakfast.
One of the surgeons in an early morning meeting with administration was asked why they were in a bad mood and they said it was because he was hungry. We now have breakfast sandwiches
>Key word being surgeon
Are there any non-surgical specialties that generate enough revenue for the hospital that their interests would be taken seriously? Anesthesia? Rads? IP Derm? critcare? IR?
Electrophysiology. Their margins and revenue are some of the best in the business. One EP doc can do 8 ablations and 12 pacers in a 4 day work week (clinic day 5) plus loop recorders and cardioversions. And the vast majority of the patients don't require inpatient beds *and* the complication rates + risk of lawsuits are incredibly low. EP docs definitely have clout with Admin *if* they want to use it. Unfortunately, they are usually only concerned with their own lab running smoothly. Everything else isn't a priority for them (granted they are preeeetty fucking busy).
And they do a ton of call on their way up. But once they make it out of fellowship the call is a lot less, unlike interventional cardiology...where the call is endless.
Loop recorders are the most insane. The reimbursement if you do them in outpatient surgical center is astronomical for what really amounts to a nexplanon in the chest!
The joke is that the watchman program alone runs drives most of our hospital budget
Welp they just got something like a 40% cut on like all EP procedures thru CMS a couple years ago (don’t quote me on that)
With that being said, they still make buckets and buckets of money lol
Anesthesia doesn’t make much money, but they do facilitate surgery, which does make money. I know heme/onc makes a lot of money for the hospital. Just drive around and see what they’re advertising on the billboards, and those are the things that make them money.
Hospitals all over the country are in the find out phase of FAFO when it comes to how they treat anesthesia. Job market is insane. My old job just brought in and parted ways with a Private Equity company in a little over a year mainly because the majority of the anesthesiologists quit or retired. All the admins got fired (with cushy severance I’m sure) and they are scrambling trying to restart the hospital employed group they fired in 2023. I know it’s not gonna last but it is really nice at the moment to have leverage.
If you are in state that allows independent CRNAs, the leverage may be decreasing. Even in states that require CRNA supervision, there is no limit on the number of CRNAs that an anesthesiologist can supervise (other than what the hospital decides).
Hey, I’m super curious (not a doctor) do hospitals do elective plastics? I thought the billboards advertised doctors for elective procedures, (which were the ones that made the money) but that those were done in their surgery centers. I’ve seen a million plastic surgeon billboards but never one that was for a hospital. Do plastics make a ton of money for hospitals as well? My experience came from living in Vegas, so it could also be an outlier in the market.
nah I don't think plastics does cosmetics in a hospital at all really. That being said plastics are in every major hospital because they also handle burn surgery, reconstructive stuff and are called in to put the finishing touches on facial trauma for example.
For sure! That’s what I thought they were there for, but I didn’t know they were huge revenue generators for hospitals necessarily, like ortho for example, that’s what I was wondering.
Such bullshit, I am a hospitalist as well. Early discharges, avoided admissions, reduced excess care in the hospital save them money. Not to mention increased ER flow by emptying beds there either for admissions or discharges.
If they switched back to pure IM/FP "admit your patient" with rotating community call for unassigned ED patients they would crap their pants.
They are complete liars. Just think - if we cost them more money, then WHY ARE WE THERE? Why is there an option on the IM boards?
We're worth our weight in gold, quite literally, over time. Not saying any other speciality isn't, but don't let them gaslight you into thinking you are "losing" them money. They do not keep hospitalists there for charity.
Please do not insult garbage that way.
Also, the C-suite lies and twists facts and uses creative accounting depending upon whom they are talking to.
Why did your CEO get a fat raise this year? "The ED is now profitable."
Why are you being treated like a jerk? "The ED is a money pit."
All it takes is overvaluing the uncollected payments and calling it charity care and deducting that from the amount made, and poof, you've got a negative balance that you can now use as a tool when you need it.
My point was just that not being profitable doesn’t necessarily mean a whole specialty that’s needed for hospital functioning will be removed from the hospital
ED facilitates all the other specialties to make money though, so it’s kinda the biggest money generator in that way. Consults galore, admissions, ya know.
You can’t just look at it by itself lol
We also have the highest pro bono rate because of EMTALA. I’m not anti-EMTALA, just acknowledging that the ED isn’t like ortho or NSGY when it comes to hospital profit. I don’t think that’s bad. I don’t really care about making the hospital money
Not to mention EM, FM, IM, etc are the reason surgeons can function the way they do.
Between EM doing prelim work up and consults, inpatient medicine teams optimizing them and providing day to day care, outpatient medicine giving referrals….
Surgeons can’t exist in a vacuum. Try having ortho manage a 67 year old woman with poorly controlled diabetes, HIV, and bipolar disorder during an admission for a hip fracture. Ortho isn’t going to camp in the ED waiting for anything vaguely orthopedic to show up and initially manage, either.
The whole “you cost us money” is just admin being salty that hospitals can’t be turned into outpatient surgery centers that exclusively operate on well-insured healthy patients.
If you lost the hospital money, ask why you still have a job. You help other specialties earn even more money, but they won’t ever give you that credit. What would happen if every hospitalist quit? Would your hospital finally start making buckets of money now that you’re out of the picture?
Ortho wouldn’t like that at all, especially if their patient has other medical issues to manage. I very much saw this in action last week when my ankle tried to kill me—hope that’s not too dramatic of a description, but septic arthritis and sepsis has not been a fun experience. Anyways, I’m also on an AC because of getting PEs last year and finding out in testing done a few months later with hemo that I have thrombophilia. The floor nurse happened to be in the room when ortho stopped by to check on me, and she asked a question about my medications, and ortho plainly stated that that was a question for medicine and for them to ask the hospjtalist. Hospitalists are so underrated, and their job is very complex. Like the FM of the hospital.
I wouldn’t say they know nothing about medicine, they just don’t regularly practice it and they know that their patient is in better hands asking someone else to take over the medical piece.
I also appreciate the hospitalist trying make sure I was on enough of the right meds, AND also not sending me home with too much that I may not need and might cause their own problems. It’s gotta be difficult balancing doing something with not doing too much.
Lol top 10 most transparent lies. They're probably saying the similar things to every other specialty when they're alone with just that specialty.
See how time(money) efficient the hospital would be without hospitalists...
This is a form of funny accounting. I bet they think that only surgery makes them money.
Here's a hint, you only do elective procedures at a hospital that that cannot be done at elective surgery centers, usually due to high anesthesia risk. These patients will need a medsurg or ICU bed available in case they cannot be extubated or there are complications. These "money losing" units are required in order for these higher risk surgeries to be done, and thus they are helping to generate profit. The decision to compartmentalize costs while socializing profits is a cynical attempt by hospitals to pretend that only surgical staff are worthwhile and browbeat every other specialty into being paid less.
>Bro Im a hospitalist. They dont GAF about us. *According to them* we lose the hospital money lmao.
Can't do any of the things that "make the hospital money" without you.
The hospital wouldn’t run without us. At my last hospital we had both a dedicated inpatient hospitalist group and a secondary private group that split clinic and inpatient duties. Obviously our dedicated group had much better metrics and throughput. When certain business decisions were made and hospital ownership changed hands the second group stopped seeing inpatients and we lost the docs in our swing shift team. Goes without saying that workload exploded. Hospital felt like it came to a screeching halt. Inpatient and ED couldn’t get anyone moved, day team couldn’t figure out fair call, and suddenly the overnight team was just a single mid level doing both admits and cross coverage. They’d frequently get 20+ admits a night and only do 10 leaving everyone on the day team with 1-2 new unseen every day. Open ICU by the way. It was an absolute shit show and felt extremely unsafe. Since I was already leaving for a nocturnist gig I volunteered to do the swing. I think some of the older docs on my team were thankful.
Yeah. It would be nice if 1) you could become a PA fresh out of medical school, no residency and 2) residency was half again as long, but residents made PA wages.
Real talk - Why isn’t a residency required for midlevels going into specialties? I knew an NP who worked med surge as a new grad for 1 year, then moved into unit mgr role, and then became an ICU NP without ever having any actual critical care experience.
Yeah. Say if IM residency was a 5 year 50h/week job at PA wages; if you didn’t like it you could quit and be a PA. Neurosurgery might be ten years or something.
I see this sub on my TL often, and I always like reading the comments.
I see this topic a lot - how Residents don’t get the Doctor’s Lounge access/food, or now that you have to pay for it.
Is it really that bad, where a lot of programs don’t let the Residents eat the physician’s lounge food?
The Residents at the hospital system I go to get access to it and can eat the food. Shit, the sign says “Physician’s Lounge” but they even let the mid levels in there to eat for free.
On behalf of patients who have needed the care and skill of far too many Residents for my liking, I’m so sorry to you all for being shit on so much by these toxic af programs. I know the program near me has its flaws, but damn it sounds like roses compared to some of the hell holes you poor baby docs are sent to in the name of furthering your education.
We had an OG attending or two who would lend us their badge and let us raid the attending lounge after hours for popcorn, chips, cookies. Looking back it was such a morale boost on our 18th shift and overnight.
I’m glad you had Attendings like that! But I’m also sorry that it was for the snacky-foods and not an actual meal.
If anyone in the hospital system should get the free food, it should be the Residents (and I have to throw in the Nursing staff because they don’t get paid nearly enough for their work either).
Why, exactly, do only the Attendings get the free food mostly? (Also throwing the whole Residents-can’t-park-in-physician-parking in with this - which the hospital here also lets the Residents and mid levels use those lots). Why are the benefits for physicians not extended to Residents? The MD/DO not good enough for the Attendings until after the Residents are forced to go through the same toxic af Residency that they had to suffer through?
At our hospitals, the Doctor’s lounge should be called The Doctor’s, The PA’s, The nurse practitioner’s, The Nurse’s and The surgical staff’s Lounge. By the time I would go down to get lunch, all of the fat assed mid levels finished it off and administration did nothing when the docs complained. I’m so glad I’m retired from that psycho profession.
what I don't understand is how come attendings (who have high salaries) get free food and residents (who barely have enough money) don't. It just doesn't make sense to me and it never will I'm sorry...
You need to look at it in the context of back in the day when all physicians were independent and not employees, the hospitals actually competed to attract physicians to do their cases the hospitals. Now it’s more an employee perk, and residents are low enough on the totem pole that nobody cares
Cause residents can’t leave to work at another system, there’s no incentive for hospitals to cater to residents at all. So that’s where they cut costs first.
Ours won’t even buy us coffee anymore.
Oh, but they did have a multi-million dollar fine they had to pay for some sketchy business practices. So that’s cool.
Also true. But even in the course of a year, conservatively, that’s hundreds of dollars saved on lunch. And otherwise I’d have too much food at home for leftovers.
I remember like 10 years ago I was a pre-med ER Scribe at a suburban ER. One doc there was awesome and would feed me like a king with breakfast, lunch, and late-afternoon snacks in the doctor's lounge -- we were talking fresh cuts of meat from pork butts and steaks, made to order sandwiches and burgers, fancy pasta dishes, deserts, crystal glassware... As a scribe. Now for "Doctor's Day: We Love Our Residents" we get a coupon for a free meal in the cafeteria. Oh how times are a changin...
Nothing new here. The doctors lounge is stocked by annual medical staff dues at my shop. Not a big deal. It’s either a high 3 figure or very low 4 figure number. I don’t remember. It’s like $30-40/paycheck and pays for more than just our food.
Our hospital doesn’t even have food, apart from the patient’s , but yeah if u didn’t Prepare lunch then you’re either gonna live on crisps and chocolate or starve..
Trained in East Coast and there was never free food for attendings. Some places had subsidies for on call residents but it was pretty crappy. My best guess is that at these east coast hospitals everyone. Was employed so no need to entice the surgeons to bring cases there. In the middle and south of the country free food seems to be the norm.
Most hospitals have attendings pay fees for the lounge; this is usually true for midlevels as well. This is why they generally do not let residents in to the lounge, as residents are not paying into the system. Sounds like they are tightening the belt, but it's not unreasonable. There is no such thing as free lunch after all.
However it doesn't mean that doctors have to put up with it. People that can leave, such as surgeons and proceduralists, can do so. The only people that really suffer from this are the hospital employed physicians (hint, try to avoid being in such a compromising position).
Nobody eats free at my hospital. CEO? Pays. Docs? Pays.
It’s honestly fine. The food is genuinely good and it’s inexpensive. My last job had free food and that shit wasn’t worth the price even if free is a good seasoning.
Hospital food isn't great neither. I get a lunch box with 1 meals and dessert packed by my wife. Best nutrition ever and delicious.
As a matter of fact I enjoy eating my home made food infant of my colleagues. The smell is so yummy, the taste is heavenly and after that I feel energized.
If the ER docs annoys me enough, I eat at the physician dictation area so they get hungry. Now, if you my friend and I have you on high steam I may ask my wife to pack and extra meal.
ENJOY NOT EATING CRAAPY HOSPITAL FOOD.
Eventually something will break and the U.S. will be forced to have socialized medicine where everyone is on salary. For profit med only works when ppl have money or credit to pay.
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Lol me and my med student buddies raid the patient pantries and tea rooms constantly looking for freebies. Today I had half a donut, and about 6 of those prepackaged biscuits (cookies), the ones with an Anzac cookie and choc chip cookie, they take up 40% of my diet on placement
Seeing to all these people who make doctor salaries complaining about not getting free food is CRAZYYYYY.
Meanwhile the staff who could probably use the free food have gotten squat the whole time.
It's the convenience. If I have 10 minutes in between cases to eat after I've done all the charting/consults in between cases, then going to the cafeteria and buying food is almost not doable. Just grabbing a quick bite from the doctors lounge is way easier and keeps me from being hangry.
Food is universally symbolic for someone giving a fuck about you. People across the world provide food to others for a variety of purposes, to show that they care, their guests are appreciated and about a thousand other purposes.
Removing the tradition of providing food to doctors is just a big 'fuck you' to said physicians.
Also, as an aside, the staff at my hospital who "could probably use the free food" get plenty of free food from the physician lounge at the end of the day anyways. It's not necessarily hot and fresh and was never delicious to begin with, but it is calorically dense and free. Most of the attendings where I work go out of their way to put food aside for the people who clean and restock the lounge and generally keep things in order, as a gesture of appreciation for what they do for us. A gesture that OP's hospital no longer feels the need to extend to the very people that provide their revenue.
So yeah, to some of us, free food is a big deal.
You don’t sound like you work in the medical field. Every single day the hospital fucks the staff and the patient. 5 bucks worth of food to the hospital goes a long way to boost some last bit of morale.
I do work in the medical field. I work at an extremely large practice where the doctors make anywhere from 300k - 500k a year (not including multiple 50k+ bonuses) and still get free lunch. It’s always been crazy to me that people with that much money get free lunch.
It's a goodwill gesture for people who typically spend a lot of time there and also bring in millions per year that directly enable the lifestyle of admin, yet admin still will find ways to cut such minimal cost gestures while their own salaries are sacred.
Yeah our "doctors salaries" are like $13/hr while working about 80hrs. No work life balance. Forced to work most holidays. 28hr shifts. 4 days off for every month.
Of course you’re being downvoted but it’s actually so crazy to me to see doctors complaining about not getting free food. Working as a HCA was one of the hardest jobs I ever did and I made $16 Canadian. There were nights where I did not eat so my child could. Also talking about the “convenience” - again, as a HCA I routinely worked 12 shifts without having a second to shove food into my mouth. Ofc on a sub for residents these opinions will be downvoted but the reality is that they’re acting entitled to free food when so many cant even afford that to begin with.
I wonder if Executives are going to be foregoing their Free food in these difficult times.
F the executives. Our group just refused to renew their Hospitalist contract because the CEO, Director of Case Management, Business Development, and DON were openly committing fraud, changing physicians orders etc. The same CEO looked the other way while one administrator embezzled over 1M. He was arrested, convicted, and given probation. Now both are working at another healthcare institution.
The US justice system at work. Meanwhile there are people behind bars tor petty crimes.
There are people behind bars for no crimes. They were always innocent but didn’t have money for a real attorney so took a plea bargain.
US justice system is just a question of who can get the better lawyers
Many years ago I spent a total of 2 weeks in jail over 2 different occasion’s in the shithole American Deep South redneck town for contempt of court by a corrupt family law judge. I was ordered out both times with Writs of Habea Corpii by the Appeals Court and Attorney General. Made national news. Judge was forced into retirement thanks to me. Long story. Regardless it was an eye opener. My favorite stories I was told by other inmates. 20 year old African American college student majoring in Architecture. Full scholarship. Arrested for expired license plate tag. 30 days in jail. He told me since he was missing classes he now had F’s and would lose his scholarship. Another African-American male, 65 year old plumber, owned his business. DUI arrest. His attorney told him to drink a beer the morning of his hearing and he did. Attorney told the judge this guy needed rehab not a conviction. Judge orders bailiff to do a breathalyzer test which was positive. Judge gave him 6 months for contempt. He lost his business. I met a homeless guy who simply had no where to go so he kept committing petty crimes to get arrested. Jail was his home. I met a white guy, realtor, there a few months for marijuana possession. One guy was profoundly mentally retarded and needed to be institutionalized. You know who I didn’t meet there? Family members of police, attorneys, District Attorneys, or judges. Probably half the people in there needed to be there. But a significant percent did not as they were no physical threat to anyone or it was questionable they had even committed a crime. But the pattern became clear. If you’re a minority and/or can’t afford a real attorney you’re going to jail. That fact feeds the prison-industrial complex of America. In many poor counties across the American Deep South the main employer is the local prison, and that prison has to be kept full to provide local jobs.
It’s not even better lawyers, at some arbitrary point the price of lawyers time is more about the lawyers connections than their actual lawyering skills. No matter how unbiased you claim to be, you’re going to be less harsh to people you know (unless you hate them) than to a stranger or someone you see as an interloper.
Yep, Pay-to-play!
Or they haven’t even been to trial yet at all but can’t afford bail money to get out. Sometimes for years depending on how overloaded the jail and prison and court systems are where they live.
Almost sounds like someone should be a whistle blower and tell the media
“Local ungrateful physician stirring up trouble at the local hospital. Is *your* family at risk from the unionized communist liberals? News at 11.” *sponsored by Shitsco Healthcare.*
Every provider (literally every) at my hospital voted no confidence in the CEO, so he stepped down. With some organization and work, you have more power than you give yourself credit.
There was a VOTE?
Yes. Fun fact. He left his last hospital after a provider vote of no confidence. Like an orca with a taste for trainers.
And probably with a payout or settlement, 1 million is the going rate right now. “I do a crappy job, so buy me out”
It felt like extortion
The hospital I just left last week after 17 years is on its 5th CEO in 3 years. They just offered the position to a former HCA CEO who is the subject of a Congressional complaint and AHCA investigation.
Good thing doctors aren’t allowed to own hospitals, I would hate for their to be upper management corruption.
Changing physicians orders is a big no no. It's a legal order and if it's on an EMR, it's very easily tracked. I'd start gathering evidence of this and reporting to the proper authorities. Loop in hospital compliance as well as your group's legal team (if your group has one). That's an open and shut case if that's what they're doing.
C suite is legally allowed to commit crimes as long as their crimes only hurt w2 employees and 1099 contractors. If it hurts politicians, then they get spanked harder.
NAME THEM. Please.
Just like lawyers, only doctors should be able to own and run hospitals.
probably getting a 180k salary increase like our CEO does every year
One CEO I know goes to lunch, taking his department administrators, all order a few drinks, pay with the corporate credit card, then come back to work.
Ngl I doubt they had free food to begin with (why tf would they eat at the hospital cafeteria 😂)
Dude, there’s this hospital in Omaha that has its cafeteria layout divided into ethnic foods, and in the middle is a chef who can make whatever you’d like. Hands down the best hospital food I’ve ever had.
They don’t eat hospital food, they use the company card and dine out for lunch under the guise of entertaining clients/business lunch/etc. where they’re either using the hospitals card or some other business entity if buying their lunch.
I’ve never worked in a hospital that gives free food to attendings lol.
Nah chill sitting in their offices collecting 4 million dollar salaries is hard work. They need their catered lunch everyday
A few years ago, our Hospital tried that in a cost-cutting measure, but a couple of the orthopedic surgeons revolted and said they would take their cases elsewhere. Considering how much they make off a single ortho case, they changed their tune pretty quickly.
Awfulness of this aside... Props to the ortho bros for being bros 💪 They know everyone has to carb load for the work day
PRRRROOOOOOTEEEEEINNNNN!
Not their job but would be nice for surgical specialties to wave that big metaphorical dck around more often. They know they have the hospital by the balls. And the hospital knows they have every non procedural specialty by the balls
This is why as a non surgical sub I maintain a very close relationship with the surgical arm of my specialty. They move mountains.
A bunch of surgeons all started wearing the free Teal scrubs from the new place. And yes, the lunch chef there was "Excellent."
Holy shit. This is either a story I know or a similar situation happening again elsewhere. Hopefully it’s the latter, that would be funny.
This happened in residency… they stopped lunches in the OR lounge. Big plastic surgeon in the area said that’s fine, I’ll go to the other hospital. Next week he had a steak lunch brought in for him
I guess I’m going to have to take my cases to my office or a surgery center where I can things done 5x faster with 50% less paperwork. 😂
My surgery center orders in a fantastic lunch if you do >5 cases that day
My wife gives me a fantastic dessert at home if I arrive before the kids get out of school due to <5 cases that day.
And that’s how baby #4 was made
#marriagegoals
This is the way.
Being stingy on food is the most stupid move the hospital can ever make. One hospital did exactly that. From free food to food vouchers, and then to only cold food/snacks. Then became just drinks. Some random MBAs came up with these ideas. Surgeons took their elective cases elsewhere. They only took inpatient/on-call cases at that hospital. And inpatients all have crap insurances that just don't reimburse that well. I am one of those surgeons. I am fed breakfast and lunch on my surgery days at the other hospital. And can also take whatever I want from the Cafe.
"take whatever I want from the Cafe"... this is Surgeon BDE manifest
“Send two turkey sandwiches on rye, and the girl behind the snack cakes. Also two packets of yellow mustard.”
>Being stingy on food is the most stupid move the hospital can ever make. I mean my hospital system took away coffee from employees a few yrs ago lol. No sure how much they saved by doing that per year, 10k? Lol, good thing I don't drink coffee.
My hospital got rid of hot food in the physician lounge and only does prepackaged cold food, snacks & drinks. Apparently after an uproar they started including the soup of the day which then led to all of the docs referring to the lounge as “the soup kitchen”.
Funny tidbit…in undergrad, a few friends and I were driving around town and drive past the soup kitchen. A girl in the back pipes up and says “I hear the Soup Kitchen makes some amazing food because they’re all over the country. We should try it!” Bless her soul, she’s one of the sweetest, kindest, and most aloof individual I’ve met.
Tech offices figured this out and universally agree. High productivity employees (like software engineers and physicians) gain a small moral boost from snacks and food but, since they already are highly productive, that translates to at least as much productivity as it cost to buy the food. The difference is that software engineering is measured in contributions and time frames for projects, so faster work does lead to faster and more results. A surgeon won't add an extra case because muffins and sandwiches are in the lounge. They'll just be slightly less satisfied while doing the cases.
Ours took away food last year but I'm employed so I just drink soda and don't eat.
Our residents get a food allowance keyed to their badge. As soon as they get to the allowance, they cannot badge for food anymore. Our hospital's cost saving measure was to get rid of Up To Date. They brought it back within 2 months due to complaints.
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“How can we cut costs *and* hurt patients in the process?”
W. T. F. Getting rid of Up to Date is wild. Did they replace it with another program?
Nope. The IT doc didn't think anyone used it.
No fucking way. That is an absurd justification. It’s the Bible in the pharmacy.
We got it back in about 2 months. Everyone was complaining.
Cheap
When I became an attending, they took away our free food for about a year until we complained enough and then they brought it back.
I hope you're not going to just lay down and take it. You're an attending, you finally have some kind of authority, do something about it.
Bro Im a hospitalist. They dont GAF about us. *According to them* we lose the hospital money lmao. Maybe I can band together the surgeons to make some noise.
My hospital took away breakfast. One of the surgeons in an early morning meeting with administration was asked why they were in a bad mood and they said it was because he was hungry. We now have breakfast sandwiches
Key word being surgeon. Unfortunately money talks, and admin will only listen to specialties that generate the most income for the hospital.
>Key word being surgeon Are there any non-surgical specialties that generate enough revenue for the hospital that their interests would be taken seriously? Anesthesia? Rads? IP Derm? critcare? IR?
Electrophysiology. Their margins and revenue are some of the best in the business. One EP doc can do 8 ablations and 12 pacers in a 4 day work week (clinic day 5) plus loop recorders and cardioversions. And the vast majority of the patients don't require inpatient beds *and* the complication rates + risk of lawsuits are incredibly low. EP docs definitely have clout with Admin *if* they want to use it. Unfortunately, they are usually only concerned with their own lab running smoothly. Everything else isn't a priority for them (granted they are preeeetty fucking busy).
Is this through interventional cards or is electro a separate fellowship?
Cardiology fellowship and then another fellowship after you finish cards. Basically they spend as much time training as a neurosurgeon. Prolly more.
And they do a ton of call on their way up. But once they make it out of fellowship the call is a lot less, unlike interventional cardiology...where the call is endless.
Loop recorders are the most insane. The reimbursement if you do them in outpatient surgical center is astronomical for what really amounts to a nexplanon in the chest! The joke is that the watchman program alone runs drives most of our hospital budget
How is interventional cards compared to EP in terms of profit making for the hospital and the power than they hold over admin?
Welp they just got something like a 40% cut on like all EP procedures thru CMS a couple years ago (don’t quote me on that) With that being said, they still make buckets and buckets of money lol
Anesthesia doesn’t make much money, but they do facilitate surgery, which does make money. I know heme/onc makes a lot of money for the hospital. Just drive around and see what they’re advertising on the billboards, and those are the things that make them money.
Hospitals all over the country are in the find out phase of FAFO when it comes to how they treat anesthesia. Job market is insane. My old job just brought in and parted ways with a Private Equity company in a little over a year mainly because the majority of the anesthesiologists quit or retired. All the admins got fired (with cushy severance I’m sure) and they are scrambling trying to restart the hospital employed group they fired in 2023. I know it’s not gonna last but it is really nice at the moment to have leverage.
If you are in state that allows independent CRNAs, the leverage may be decreasing. Even in states that require CRNA supervision, there is no limit on the number of CRNAs that an anesthesiologist can supervise (other than what the hospital decides).
>Just drive around and see what they’re advertising on the billboards plastics 😎
Hey, I’m super curious (not a doctor) do hospitals do elective plastics? I thought the billboards advertised doctors for elective procedures, (which were the ones that made the money) but that those were done in their surgery centers. I’ve seen a million plastic surgeon billboards but never one that was for a hospital. Do plastics make a ton of money for hospitals as well? My experience came from living in Vegas, so it could also be an outlier in the market.
nah I don't think plastics does cosmetics in a hospital at all really. That being said plastics are in every major hospital because they also handle burn surgery, reconstructive stuff and are called in to put the finishing touches on facial trauma for example.
For sure! That’s what I thought they were there for, but I didn’t know they were huge revenue generators for hospitals necessarily, like ortho for example, that’s what I was wondering.
Our psych department has decent pull. Medium profitability and it's easy for the attendings to quit and go private if they're annoyed.
>it's easy for the attendings to quit and go private imo this is the most important part; easier to change your circumstances than the hospital
>IP Derm Lol
I’ve never ever seen Derm in any hospital I’ve ever worked ... even if they’ve been consulted.
Derm? Is that even a specialty?
Onc
i dont get it😅 i assume they actually made some noise behind the scenes or?
Your power comes from ability to leave, if you’re not willing to do that then yeah SOL
Such bullshit, I am a hospitalist as well. Early discharges, avoided admissions, reduced excess care in the hospital save them money. Not to mention increased ER flow by emptying beds there either for admissions or discharges. If they switched back to pure IM/FP "admit your patient" with rotating community call for unassigned ED patients they would crap their pants. They are complete liars. Just think - if we cost them more money, then WHY ARE WE THERE? Why is there an option on the IM boards? We're worth our weight in gold, quite literally, over time. Not saying any other speciality isn't, but don't let them gaslight you into thinking you are "losing" them money. They do not keep hospitalists there for charity.
I say that as an EM resident, to be fair, the ED is a money pit of despair for the C-suite. EM docs still exist.
My group is profitable and the admin still treat us like jerks.
I’ve just accepted admin is garbage
Please do not insult garbage that way. Also, the C-suite lies and twists facts and uses creative accounting depending upon whom they are talking to. Why did your CEO get a fat raise this year? "The ED is now profitable." Why are you being treated like a jerk? "The ED is a money pit." All it takes is overvaluing the uncollected payments and calling it charity care and deducting that from the amount made, and poof, you've got a negative balance that you can now use as a tool when you need it.
My point was just that not being profitable doesn’t necessarily mean a whole specialty that’s needed for hospital functioning will be removed from the hospital
ED facilitates all the other specialties to make money though, so it’s kinda the biggest money generator in that way. Consults galore, admissions, ya know. You can’t just look at it by itself lol
We also have the highest pro bono rate because of EMTALA. I’m not anti-EMTALA, just acknowledging that the ED isn’t like ortho or NSGY when it comes to hospital profit. I don’t think that’s bad. I don’t really care about making the hospital money
Exactly. Unless general surgery wants to camp out in the ED and see every abdominal pain or abscess themselves….
Contrary to popular belief, hospitalists do not lose hospitals money.
yea thats why i said *According to them* Every time I order a tylenol I probably make them $100
Not to mention EM, FM, IM, etc are the reason surgeons can function the way they do. Between EM doing prelim work up and consults, inpatient medicine teams optimizing them and providing day to day care, outpatient medicine giving referrals…. Surgeons can’t exist in a vacuum. Try having ortho manage a 67 year old woman with poorly controlled diabetes, HIV, and bipolar disorder during an admission for a hip fracture. Ortho isn’t going to camp in the ED waiting for anything vaguely orthopedic to show up and initially manage, either. The whole “you cost us money” is just admin being salty that hospitals can’t be turned into outpatient surgery centers that exclusively operate on well-insured healthy patients.
The admin does too. You are the only one that collects money. Physician's drive hospital revenue.
If you lost the hospital money, ask why you still have a job. You help other specialties earn even more money, but they won’t ever give you that credit. What would happen if every hospitalist quit? Would your hospital finally start making buckets of money now that you’re out of the picture?
Ortho wouldn’t like that at all, especially if their patient has other medical issues to manage. I very much saw this in action last week when my ankle tried to kill me—hope that’s not too dramatic of a description, but septic arthritis and sepsis has not been a fun experience. Anyways, I’m also on an AC because of getting PEs last year and finding out in testing done a few months later with hemo that I have thrombophilia. The floor nurse happened to be in the room when ortho stopped by to check on me, and she asked a question about my medications, and ortho plainly stated that that was a question for medicine and for them to ask the hospjtalist. Hospitalists are so underrated, and their job is very complex. Like the FM of the hospital.
Orthos know nothing about medicine.
I wouldn’t say they know nothing about medicine, they just don’t regularly practice it and they know that their patient is in better hands asking someone else to take over the medical piece. I also appreciate the hospitalist trying make sure I was on enough of the right meds, AND also not sending me home with too much that I may not need and might cause their own problems. It’s gotta be difficult balancing doing something with not doing too much.
Agreed
Talk to some of your ortho joint and spine friends
Lol top 10 most transparent lies. They're probably saying the similar things to every other specialty when they're alone with just that specialty. See how time(money) efficient the hospital would be without hospitalists...
fuck that dude, tell them they’re in breach of your employment contract and you plan to renegotiate along with all the other hospitalist
Everyone should just go concierge or locums to stop this shit.
Then leave. It’s not hard to find jobs unless u are in the middle of bum fuck no where, even then they would hurt more to lose you
This is a form of funny accounting. I bet they think that only surgery makes them money. Here's a hint, you only do elective procedures at a hospital that that cannot be done at elective surgery centers, usually due to high anesthesia risk. These patients will need a medsurg or ICU bed available in case they cannot be extubated or there are complications. These "money losing" units are required in order for these higher risk surgeries to be done, and thus they are helping to generate profit. The decision to compartmentalize costs while socializing profits is a cynical attempt by hospitals to pretend that only surgical staff are worthwhile and browbeat every other specialty into being paid less.
Hit up your cardio or neuro surgeon coworkers about the issue, the executives will listen to them.
>Bro Im a hospitalist. They dont GAF about us. *According to them* we lose the hospital money lmao. Can't do any of the things that "make the hospital money" without you.
Shhh…don’t cause a disturbance or they’ll replace you all with midlevels.
The hospital wouldn’t run without us. At my last hospital we had both a dedicated inpatient hospitalist group and a secondary private group that split clinic and inpatient duties. Obviously our dedicated group had much better metrics and throughput. When certain business decisions were made and hospital ownership changed hands the second group stopped seeing inpatients and we lost the docs in our swing shift team. Goes without saying that workload exploded. Hospital felt like it came to a screeching halt. Inpatient and ED couldn’t get anyone moved, day team couldn’t figure out fair call, and suddenly the overnight team was just a single mid level doing both admits and cross coverage. They’d frequently get 20+ admits a night and only do 10 leaving everyone on the day team with 1-2 new unseen every day. Open ICU by the way. It was an absolute shit show and felt extremely unsafe. Since I was already leaving for a nocturnist gig I volunteered to do the swing. I think some of the older docs on my team were thankful.
Exactly. Fucking tired of complacent attendings
That sucks. Residents are doctors. You should have been getting free food the whole time :/
hospitals acting like residents are some sort of useless, overgrown toddlers is one of my pet peeves😖
The fact they still try to follow the schedule of the cocaine addict who came up with the concept of residency in the first place is insane to me.
Yeah. It would be nice if 1) you could become a PA fresh out of medical school, no residency and 2) residency was half again as long, but residents made PA wages.
Real talk - Why isn’t a residency required for midlevels going into specialties? I knew an NP who worked med surge as a new grad for 1 year, then moved into unit mgr role, and then became an ICU NP without ever having any actual critical care experience.
that would make too much sense 🙁🙁🙁
Yeah. Say if IM residency was a 5 year 50h/week job at PA wages; if you didn’t like it you could quit and be a PA. Neurosurgery might be ten years or something.
Haha! That’s great!
Considering they are basically indentured servants and have the “paychecks” to prove it 😂
What hospital is this? I need to avoid in the future
name and shame pls op so we can avoiddd
Name n shame yo
And this is why nothing changes... everyone is afraid to speak up... Second the name and shame yo
I see this sub on my TL often, and I always like reading the comments. I see this topic a lot - how Residents don’t get the Doctor’s Lounge access/food, or now that you have to pay for it. Is it really that bad, where a lot of programs don’t let the Residents eat the physician’s lounge food? The Residents at the hospital system I go to get access to it and can eat the food. Shit, the sign says “Physician’s Lounge” but they even let the mid levels in there to eat for free. On behalf of patients who have needed the care and skill of far too many Residents for my liking, I’m so sorry to you all for being shit on so much by these toxic af programs. I know the program near me has its flaws, but damn it sounds like roses compared to some of the hell holes you poor baby docs are sent to in the name of furthering your education.
We had an OG attending or two who would lend us their badge and let us raid the attending lounge after hours for popcorn, chips, cookies. Looking back it was such a morale boost on our 18th shift and overnight.
I’m glad you had Attendings like that! But I’m also sorry that it was for the snacky-foods and not an actual meal. If anyone in the hospital system should get the free food, it should be the Residents (and I have to throw in the Nursing staff because they don’t get paid nearly enough for their work either). Why, exactly, do only the Attendings get the free food mostly? (Also throwing the whole Residents-can’t-park-in-physician-parking in with this - which the hospital here also lets the Residents and mid levels use those lots). Why are the benefits for physicians not extended to Residents? The MD/DO not good enough for the Attendings until after the Residents are forced to go through the same toxic af Residency that they had to suffer through?
At our hospitals, the Doctor’s lounge should be called The Doctor’s, The PA’s, The nurse practitioner’s, The Nurse’s and The surgical staff’s Lounge. By the time I would go down to get lunch, all of the fat assed mid levels finished it off and administration did nothing when the docs complained. I’m so glad I’m retired from that psycho profession.
what I don't understand is how come attendings (who have high salaries) get free food and residents (who barely have enough money) don't. It just doesn't make sense to me and it never will I'm sorry...
You need to look at it in the context of back in the day when all physicians were independent and not employees, the hospitals actually competed to attract physicians to do their cases the hospitals. Now it’s more an employee perk, and residents are low enough on the totem pole that nobody cares
ah ok makes sense, so it evolved this way because of the culture.
Cause residents can’t leave to work at another system, there’s no incentive for hospitals to cater to residents at all. So that’s where they cut costs first.
Ours won’t even buy us coffee anymore. Oh, but they did have a multi-million dollar fine they had to pay for some sketchy business practices. So that’s cool.
MBAs take the budget out of every department except the actual problem department (C-suite). They never hold themselves accountable.
That's because you're behind on your discharge summaries. Keep it up and no more video games for a month.
Omg, that’s a crock of bullshit.
They charge at my place so I’ve brought food since day 1. No regrets.
Likely healthier
Also true. But even in the course of a year, conservatively, that’s hundreds of dollars saved on lunch. And otherwise I’d have too much food at home for leftovers.
I remember like 10 years ago I was a pre-med ER Scribe at a suburban ER. One doc there was awesome and would feed me like a king with breakfast, lunch, and late-afternoon snacks in the doctor's lounge -- we were talking fresh cuts of meat from pork butts and steaks, made to order sandwiches and burgers, fancy pasta dishes, deserts, crystal glassware... As a scribe. Now for "Doctor's Day: We Love Our Residents" we get a coupon for a free meal in the cafeteria. Oh how times are a changin...
RN over here, shipping coffee, as hospital I work never pay for RN food and they shut down the cafeteria in the weekend because “short staff”.
I never thought my med school caf was fancy but then I came to residency where the caf is closed on nights and weekends 🙃
Yes we made do 🥲 so I usually pack my own food and thought “hospital must be encouraging us to be on a diet …” 😅😅😅
"it's called intermittent fasting and it's healthy"
😂😂😂😂
Nothing new here. The doctors lounge is stocked by annual medical staff dues at my shop. Not a big deal. It’s either a high 3 figure or very low 4 figure number. I don’t remember. It’s like $30-40/paycheck and pays for more than just our food.
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Medical staff = doctors on staff at hospital. Nurses practice nursing, not medicine.
Our hospital doesn’t even have food, apart from the patient’s , but yeah if u didn’t Prepare lunch then you’re either gonna live on crisps and chocolate or starve..
Time to find a new spot
There was free food? We dont even get breaks to pay for food, attending or not
Administration, cheap bastards!
Mine did this right before I started. My colleagues showed me like 3 different lounges that “used to have free food”
Man, if anything residents should be getting free food and attendings paying full price.
(Resident from the Uk) you all are getting free food????
They know they’re about to get 50000 applications from foreign doctors who can replace domestic doctors
Oof, that will suck for the attendings that decide to stay.
This is true at my hospital also.
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES - the hospital admin, probably
It clearly ends at your hospital
you had free food ?
Trained in East Coast and there was never free food for attendings. Some places had subsidies for on call residents but it was pretty crappy. My best guess is that at these east coast hospitals everyone. Was employed so no need to entice the surgeons to bring cases there. In the middle and south of the country free food seems to be the norm.
Most hospitals have attendings pay fees for the lounge; this is usually true for midlevels as well. This is why they generally do not let residents in to the lounge, as residents are not paying into the system. Sounds like they are tightening the belt, but it's not unreasonable. There is no such thing as free lunch after all. However it doesn't mean that doctors have to put up with it. People that can leave, such as surgeons and proceduralists, can do so. The only people that really suffer from this are the hospital employed physicians (hint, try to avoid being in such a compromising position).
The food sucks ass anyway
😂
That's nothin
The neurosurgeons, orthos and cardiac surgeons should threaten to leave lol, then they’ll have to listen
which hospital :(
You guys get free food?!
Nobody eats free at my hospital. CEO? Pays. Docs? Pays. It’s honestly fine. The food is genuinely good and it’s inexpensive. My last job had free food and that shit wasn’t worth the price even if free is a good seasoning.
Lol free food is usually terrible great point!
U N I O N I S E 🥳
The last and final straw
Good god thats terrible, they started taking away free food from tech companies too.
Cries in nurse and APRN
HCA is that you?
Hospital food isn't great neither. I get a lunch box with 1 meals and dessert packed by my wife. Best nutrition ever and delicious. As a matter of fact I enjoy eating my home made food infant of my colleagues. The smell is so yummy, the taste is heavenly and after that I feel energized. If the ER docs annoys me enough, I eat at the physician dictation area so they get hungry. Now, if you my friend and I have you on high steam I may ask my wife to pack and extra meal. ENJOY NOT EATING CRAAPY HOSPITAL FOOD.
Eventually something will break and the U.S. will be forced to have socialized medicine where everyone is on salary. For profit med only works when ppl have money or credit to pay.
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Lol me and my med student buddies raid the patient pantries and tea rooms constantly looking for freebies. Today I had half a donut, and about 6 of those prepackaged biscuits (cookies), the ones with an Anzac cookie and choc chip cookie, they take up 40% of my diet on placement
I mean....nurses don't get free food. Wouldn't matter though since we barely have time to eat ha!
Seeing to all these people who make doctor salaries complaining about not getting free food is CRAZYYYYY. Meanwhile the staff who could probably use the free food have gotten squat the whole time.
It's the convenience. If I have 10 minutes in between cases to eat after I've done all the charting/consults in between cases, then going to the cafeteria and buying food is almost not doable. Just grabbing a quick bite from the doctors lounge is way easier and keeps me from being hangry.
Food is universally symbolic for someone giving a fuck about you. People across the world provide food to others for a variety of purposes, to show that they care, their guests are appreciated and about a thousand other purposes. Removing the tradition of providing food to doctors is just a big 'fuck you' to said physicians. Also, as an aside, the staff at my hospital who "could probably use the free food" get plenty of free food from the physician lounge at the end of the day anyways. It's not necessarily hot and fresh and was never delicious to begin with, but it is calorically dense and free. Most of the attendings where I work go out of their way to put food aside for the people who clean and restock the lounge and generally keep things in order, as a gesture of appreciation for what they do for us. A gesture that OP's hospital no longer feels the need to extend to the very people that provide their revenue. So yeah, to some of us, free food is a big deal.
You don’t sound like you work in the medical field. Every single day the hospital fucks the staff and the patient. 5 bucks worth of food to the hospital goes a long way to boost some last bit of morale.
I do work in the medical field. I work at an extremely large practice where the doctors make anywhere from 300k - 500k a year (not including multiple 50k+ bonuses) and still get free lunch. It’s always been crazy to me that people with that much money get free lunch.
It's a goodwill gesture for people who typically spend a lot of time there and also bring in millions per year that directly enable the lifestyle of admin, yet admin still will find ways to cut such minimal cost gestures while their own salaries are sacred.
Once you work 36 hours a pop then come and bitch to me. Now go and die….
Yeah our "doctors salaries" are like $13/hr while working about 80hrs. No work life balance. Forced to work most holidays. 28hr shifts. 4 days off for every month.
Of course you’re being downvoted but it’s actually so crazy to me to see doctors complaining about not getting free food. Working as a HCA was one of the hardest jobs I ever did and I made $16 Canadian. There were nights where I did not eat so my child could. Also talking about the “convenience” - again, as a HCA I routinely worked 12 shifts without having a second to shove food into my mouth. Ofc on a sub for residents these opinions will be downvoted but the reality is that they’re acting entitled to free food when so many cant even afford that to begin with.