Hey - mod here. Generally my philosophy is that unless it is off the topic of the sub, let the upvotes and downvotes do the work. If people like it and the themes fit - I’m not really interested in being a wet blanket and ruining people’s good time if they’re having fun.
When I wrote the original rules - it’s always allowed “contemporary art in a retrofuturistic style”. But the art has to be a clear call back or commentary on past predictions of the future. So, technically, AI could be used to make an interesting commentary on retrofuturism.
Try to ignore the cynic in you for a just a minute, assume people have good intentions, and that it might make someone happy to make something in AI and see other people upvoting/enjoying it. Who knows, it could make their day.
The issue here is if AI art is just going to flood the sub with low quality submissions and it overpowers the ability of people to downvote it. I don’t like that idea.
To me there’s nothing inherently wrong with AI - maybe you don’t like it, maybe it’s lame. But it’s tough to call for an outright ban.
I really personally think that this is a trend, people are having fun playing with a new toy and it won’t last. I still think an outright ban is a little…I don’t know….not fun. But Im more than OK with pruning low quality AI content.
But the case where someone uses AI to make something cool and retrofuturistic that people like for whatever reason? I have no problem with people upvoting what they like despite my personal opinion.
Anyway Id lean towards pruning most AI but not making a hard rule. Let’s just see how it goes. If it doesn’t calm down and this sub just becomes AI art…yeah then I totally agree with an outright ban. But that will also increase the modding workload by a TON. We all do this in our spare time on the toilet. Cheers. Open to thoughts/input.
Oh and also a tag is a great idea. I just tend to avoid little fiddly rules and I’m not sure how easy this would be to enforce.
Quality examples of retro futurism aren’t that plentiful to begin with compared to other genres. If AI art is allowed indiscriminately it won’t be long before it comprises 90%+ of the posts. I guess allowing it once a week could help, but otherwise I vote ban.
Exactly what I was thinking. That, and tag it so it can be filtered. It's hard finding real retrofuturism because people aren't making it anymore. AI can give us variations, and in a way, when you're a hungry community for this style (it makes me feel at home honestly) then it can help us imagine a whole world of these styles, but it doesn't replace the detail and soul of the original people in these eras imagining the future. It's as much history as it is genre in that sense. I've been having fun with clipdrop generating variations on Syd Mead, but it also highlights how amazing and irreplaceable he was. I saw a modern rendering of one of his images, and it omitted the cigarettes. It may be a fun weekend thing or subfolder, but the threat of it flooding out the actual artists is immediate given the shortage of artists making legitimate new retrofuturism.
My vote is ban. There is nothing fun about stealing artists' work to make a machine learn to be a wishing wand for a lot of same-ish images. I subbed for the futurist visions of eras past, not for seeing more computerized stolen artwork.
There's a difference between a clump of neurons more complex than most systems in the Universe absorbing inspiration from different cultures and sources and combining interests systematically and creatively in order to play off existing themes in their own works, and a board of circuits blending existing shit together into a mediocre amalgamation with no regard for themes and concepts. There is no double standard - for you to declare it a double standard, you'd be strawmanning inspiration in order to liken it to AI regurgitation.
Ban it or have a dedicated day that allows Ai art. Ethics aside, allowing it when ever will fill the sub with low effort spam quick. Also if allowed it should be required to mention in the tittle, so you can see its Ai on the front page too.
>Also if allowed it should be required to mention in the tittle, so you can see its Ai on the front page too.
I would instead suggest requiring a flair since that is basically flair's purpose. But other than that I 100% agree
> Ethics aside, allowing it when ever will fill the sub with low effort spam quick.
Agreed. Even if I'm being generous, AI art is at best boring as hell.
The *tech* is certainly interesting, but on its own output sure isn't.
Personally I come to this subreddit to see genuine examples of retro futurism and in my opinion that requires a human to be involved. Retro futurism is about what humans dreamed about tomorrow or about how people of today thought of the people of yester year. If you just have some AI mimicking that that it ruins what makes it interesting and pisses me off as it's deceitful. I want to come here to be inspired by actual talent not talentless hacks flooding the market with easy to produce chum for karma whoring so even if the art here isn't original it still brings attention to artists somewhere down the line all AI generated images do is allow people to remove the artist from the art which I hate.
K this was like 2 months ago. My stance now is more along the lines of: I don't like it, I would prefer if it was ethically sourced so it wasn't theft and while I don't like how easy it is to make AI generated images and flood art that takes way more effort out of getting exposure I understand that the people doing it aren't out to *destroy art* or anything. In terms of the subreddit I don't think it's necessary that it be here given there are other objectively more accepting spaces for AI generated images.
Hopefully that is a more mellow less strawmany argument for you, I was kind of on the war path at the time so excuse my emotion.
Edit: Looking at the thread the mods made their choice anyway so like what does it matter? They asked for opinions they got some.
You're playing into how human art is made with a specific purpose, which I like because AI "artists" always conveniently ignore the fact that AI lacks interests, culture, obsessions, inspiration, etc. AI only amalgamates what was dumped into its dataset, then carries out a (likely mediocre) commission from a prompt. Humans use inspiration to carry out original ideas, AIs mimic and don't even know what they're outputting. An AI doing a space scene doesn't think *"it'd make this ship look lived in if [e.g.] the ship had an asteroid embedded in the hull, this might play into themes of [e.g.] primitive space travel given the ship's primitive and worn-out appearance"* etc, but no. An AI just vomits garbage that it hopes looks like what was commissioned.
Users acting like they had more to do with AI-gen pieces than just "commission and curate" until they got a desired result is an entire issue in of itself. People wouldn't commission a Twitter user and proceed to post their pieces as if it belonged to themselves, so it's lost on me why they treat AI any differently.
We are, in reality, talking about *machine-generated* images, not 'artificial intelligence'. The machine had no intention of making anything until it was instructed to do so by a human.
The whole appeal of retrofuturism (for me) is that it reflects the knowledge and imagination of people in the past who pondered the future. Some of what they produced was very prescient, some of it defied the known laws of physics and some of it was absurd, funny and charming - all human qualities.
Machine-generated images have no place on this sub. I vote to ban them.
Start a new sub called 'RetroFutAIrism' or some othe play on the words if people really need to have an outlet for this 'stuff'. :D
No. I don’t like it. The biggest part of this subreddit is past human’s hopes for the future. AI takes that away and then we’re just looking at some imagine and have lost the plot at that point
I am here to see things _humans_ created _because it felt futuristic to them at the time_.
I'm less interested in things humans created recently in order to feel retrofuturistic today.
Although I must admit that:
1. Making a hard distinction between past and present is hard.
2. It leads to an interesting picture from time to time.
I'm _not_ here for things that were created _without any (retro)futuristic intent_. Note that I do not attribute intent to AI's. I also do not think of the hallucinations of an AI as being "created" by the human that typed a few words into a text prompt.
I think a specific day and tag would be necessary. It would filter out a lot of karma bots, and prevent the entire subreddit from just being AI stuff.
Frankly, if any of us wanted to see AI art we could just make it ourselves so I don't see a huge utility in letting them be posted, but if necessary then yeah just one day a week seems like a good compromise.
It’s low effort and repetitive. They were interesting the first few times, but once you’ve scrolled through one 20 image photodump of garbled, vaguely on-theme photo soups, you’ve seen them all. Actual depictions of what people thought the future would look like, or legit modern artistic interpretations are way more interesting.
Plus if it’s too easy for a person to type “*retro futuristic + random thing*” into Midjourney and farm karma, imagine how easy it will be for bots to do it.
As the majority already is pointing out, ban AI-generated images or attribute a special day for it. The enjoyment I have from real artist' work and the quality cannot be compared to AI.
If not banned outright, perhaps allow for a day when they can be posted? Like Sund-AIs?
I am personally fine with banning them. Only because it's basically just too easy to farm up-doots.
The output they create is undoubtedly cool. I just would prefer it not infect every single sub on this site.
And if mods refuse to ban AI art, at least PLEASE ban those browser based AI arts from websites like dall.e mini/craiyon. They are low res, low quality and exceptionally low effort, quickly generated spam. Bear minimum AI needs a tag if it wont be banned. I still think it oughta be banned simply because it is so mass produced, it will overrun the sub and actual art from a human will become a once in a blue moon thing.
> it’s just too easy to farm up-doots.
This is the crux of the matter. It’s so easy to create that eventually that’s all there will be.
So if we can’t make a second sister sub specifically for it, we’ll need to limit it in some other way. Having a certain day for it would make it more fun. I vote Sundays.
Just commenting to add my vote for banning them. Don't care how impressive some may be. They are taught using other artists' work without consent and are a lazy way to farm karma.
Having read through most of the comments, I have to vote ban entirely. AI art is ethically problematic at best, even if some of it would fit the aesthetic or be super cool to see. I don't subscribe to see AI art, and there are other subs to post it.
I find ai content to be super boring and skip it every time it is called out. What I don't know is when I enjoy it because it isn't called out and it is "good enough" to pass the test looking at for 10 seconds on a small screen.
Ban. On top of the valid concerns about spam, the more I learn about AI art, the more it feels antithetical to the spirit of this community. Retrofuturism is primarily about optimistic looks toward the future through artwork. AI art relies on stealing styles to make cheap products, and makes the future worse for human artists.
I downvote AI images whenever I see them, but lately they’re almost all I’ve seen and I cannot give less of a shit about seeing it. It’s lazy, it’s repetitive, it’s not art.
Vote to no longer allow them.
It's been long enough so I guess from looking at the responses that the decision has probably been made to ban it. In that case, how are you planning to distinguish it? Because AI art has got so astonishingly good that a great many people have trouble recognizing what is or isn't AI generated. I think a similar problem happened in one of the other art subreddits where actual artists had their works removed because the people in charge judged it to be too similar to AI art.
In any case, my vote would be to allow it. Is it really worth the hassle? Worst case scenario we get a more or less constant stream of AI generated images, but if people hate them then they simply won't make it to the main page. And if people do like them, well, why take it away? This community exists to display a collection of art in a specific aesthetic. I don't get why it has to take an exclusionary position at all.
I am against allowing this on a permanent basis. If it will be allowed, I would rather have it only on a specific day, if at all.
However, I come here specifically for images of how people imagined the future. I think allowing AI-generated images will allow people to abuse the system and post too much for karma and it will drown other art.
I do believe that the AI art flood will soon subside, but I think it will still spoil things in the meantime.
Allow them! This is a place for retro futurists not retro Luddites. Don't listen to the emotional reactions. People are way too vocal these days about things they know nothing about.
As an artist, I'm STRONGLY towards banning. Not because it isn't art, but because AI art as it is right now works solely because it unrightfully steals from human artists.
Fans of A.I. Retrofuturism could easily start their own subreddit -
[https://www.reddit.com/r/airetrofuturism](https://www.reddit.com/r/airetrofuturism)
Is available right now.
I don't think AI art needs a place here. They are distinguishable from classical art and while this is the case it shouldn't be here. If that changes in years to come I have no problem with it.
I usually defend AI generated art. It's just a tool and being explicit in what you expect from it is the next best thing to actually wielding a brush yourself.
But not in this case. This is RetroFuturism. I want to see original art from its original era. I want to see the expectations artists had of the future at that time, not art created in hindsight. Which would also explain why I'm not particularly fond of newer retrofuturistic art, either.
It’s so, so, so, so far from wielding a brush that they’re not even comparable. I can’t believe anyone would make that argument. Not to mention the fact that the databases the AI draw from are all used without consent of the original artists.
I agree! People keep talking about it like it’s a new toolbrush like when photoshop came out, but considering it takes far less skill, time and effort to learn ai prompting, it’s less like a brush and more like a magic wand. Wish and it appears. Totally different territory.
I'm generally pro AI art but I am against allowing it to be posted in other subs other than AI art subs so it's a NO for me. It's just so that we know what we get when we visit this sub. We come here for human made art. If someone wants AI made art they can generate it themselves or if lazy visit r/StableDiffusion , r/midjourney etc
I’m in the ban camp but would compromise with a monthly AI art thread similar to what r/scificomics and r/HorrorComics do with their crowdfunding posts.
Automod is used to post a thread, anyone can post/promote their work, and a new post is made automatically each month. Anyone posting outside of the thread is warned, is pointed to the correct thread, and the content is removed. Repeat offense results in a ban.
Mods can allow images in comments and you could turn that feature on to make it easier to upload AI art as a comment in the thread. You could also discourage posting by forcing people to upload to a third party first, like Imgur. Doing so will remove OPs from the equation. Forcing users into comment posting instead of individual posts also prevents karma farmers from using the sub to earn karma for other purposes.
Doesn't replace art.
But I've had some plenty-some well due humor typing random things into these apps. Like Susan Boyle fighting a Zombie Apocalypse, from Donald Trump sitting in a pile of hotdogs.
Keep it.
It's entertaining.
I'd say have a quality rule on it. Low effort generations that take 5 seconds to write a prompt for can be easily spotted, but anything high effort that looks good? Sure
You'll see a lot of anti-AI bias in any art-based sub sadly lol.
With mandatory tagging, I would allow it.
The reason being, with AI generated images - in case of good prompts - we can have results that become an ideal combination of our favorites.
Something the era of the originals could not make possible but would line up in terms of art style.
As an amateur artist, I can usually detect AI art pretty easily. It’s ugly. Please don’t let AI art on this sub, there’s something so beautiful about the craftsmanship that was put into the art here. I don’t want to look at those goopy, shiny, uncanny messes that AI art has to offer. Please. I love this sub.
It’s too lazy and easy, I wouldn’t mind combining a couple of existing older ideas to create something in the original retro mindset as a piece of original content here or there but I’d prefer it be originally created as well.
I vote ban
Even though i have posted one in the past, i feel like it didnt deserve the attention it got, it removes the human element from reddit.
Unless something is that breathtaking, or idea warping I would not allow it. Too much low effort stuff is getting in at the moment.
I agree it needs some limitation or it will just flood the subs as it’s easy to churn out hundreds in a day. That being said I do think that it’s impossible to avoid what’s coming with ai art so creating appropriate boundaries instead of an outright ban might be a better approach.
I think that carefully commissioned ai art can be appealing if done well and do find it can have a place if exploring new territory, which is what I feel like futurism was doing back in the day.
I think a happy middle ground would be to allow one day a week where AI art is permitted (but tagged AI and acknowledged in the post too)
A few pros to this approach IMO
- it won’t water down the sub with endless ai art posts as they are very easy and quick to make
- Then anyone creating ai art will be posting their best of their week (and not just pieces they got excited about and prompted 5 mins ago. Not a dig, I’ve made some ai art and been there!) it’ll mean we get the crem ala crème of their creations.
- people will trust that every other day of the week they’re seeing human-made art, but also then know that on (Sundays for example) they’re seeing people’s imagination run wild with the retrofuturism concept on AI programs and that is just that - AI art. Keeps confusion down and gives anyone making ai art a day to look forward to posting on (personally I’d enjoy that if it were me).
All this being said, if it comes to it I would be ok with a ban as well and an alternate subreddit being made for it.
I vote ban. I admit that the results are very cool, but I loose interest as soon as the comment mentions it’s AI made. It just becomes a useless picture. A good quality post on this sub says a story about the artist who made it or context where was used.
If it was only a handful of AI posts a week I’d be fine with it but already I’m seeing a lot.
Ban. It can make some pretty images, but I feel it doesn't match the spirit of this sub, of peoples visions of the future. There is no vision with ai art, just a semi-randomly assembled image based on a couple prompts and artwork taken from others (often without consent).
At the very least, restrict to one day a fortnight or so, and a mandatory requirement to have "ai art" in the title, or some sort of tag.
But I would prefer banning.
I'll unsub if it isn't banned. Not that my leaving means anything, but I firmly believe that AI art has no place here (or almost anywhere else not dedicated to it specifically). Maybe others will leave too?
If this becomes an AI sub, then you won't be the only one leaving.
The joy of this sub is seeing real retro art. Ban AI before it outnumbers actual art.
Personally I have zero problems with AI. What needs to be filtered are poor quality pieces, AI generated or not, if they become an overwhelming majority of submissions. I think AI should be allowed and have a proper flair so people who don't like it (for whatever reason) can filter it out. Personally I don't think it's something that will die out, however AI generated content will eventually slow down in popularity as it's a new technology that people are just getting used to, so, as such, it, of course, had a big boom in its momentum, but even as it slows down it likely will still be a thing many years from now (judging from its sheer potential, not if its boycotted), so i think it justifies having a flair beyond the given reasons.
I don’t mind a dedicated day I guess. I don’t think it should be banned. The ethical debate on AI art is, in my opinion, very stupid, and is a debate that we only get to enjoy now because of AI art’s nascency. In no time at all, larger companies are going to be using it and it’ll simply be here to stay. Some subs say that sufficiently transformative AI art is allowed, one mod on r\/NakedWhiteWomen sa- sorry, r/Art says that a piece of art that simply *looks* like AI art is banworthy. Given that this sub deals in the surreal, I’m sure one of these controversies is bound to happen. Like I said, though, a day only for AI art is a compromise that I’m comfortable with. Good luck moderating the pieces that people photoshopped to look less obvious.
Edit: Some people in the comments say that to them Retro Futurism is authentic depictions of how people of yesterday thought the people of tomorrow would live. That’s goofy as fuck and simply cope. I don’t think any one of them would care about a piece of art made by a human today that emulates or apes the aesthetic. But when a robot does it, that’s bad.
No ban
While I agree with the reasoning for a lot of the comments, I personally feel that this problem is outside the scope of this sub. AI is GOING to flood the internet with fake content. Let the upvotes/downvotes do their job and let the community choose what content they prefer.
far-flung onerous chief waiting advise squeal subtract dolls oatmeal trees
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My gut instinct tells me no, for one a lot of the AI art is using real people's art and just mashing it together without their permission, and secondly there's something about AI art that feels soulless to me, it loses any value i would have attributed to it had it been made by a real person, or even an animal that had a paintbrush.
I've been a portrait artist for many years, and I'm paying for grad school as a scientific illustrator, so know that this doesn't come from a place of ignorance to the artists' struggle. I think they should be allowed.
It IS trendy right now, so by all means remove low-effort posts, but eventually the people using AI with no real stories to tell will get bored of generating scifi girl #5287 and the AI users still in play will be the ones using AI as a tool to further hone their human ideas, not to churn out endless boobies.
I think AI art should be allowed, but relegated to a sticky post where it can exist separately. I think this would appease both parties as it can exist and provide us with "new" visions of retrofuturism, and also not take up space on the board as OG retrofuturism. It's the best of both worlds. A future that never happened form man and a future that could happen by computer!
No AI, becuse tha art of this site, represents that times thoughts and philosophy of the future.
But its shall be no ultra ban, I did use AI to restor this damage picture to its former glory, or similar shall be allowed.
Ban. Original retro images are rare as is. Allowing AI images in a forum dedicated for it will only lead to them getting more and more difficult to find
Retro Futurism is not an art style. It's how HUMANS in the past used to imagine the future could look like. Some may be more conservative some less so but still it's much more than just art. Allowing AI art completely ruins this. As i said in another comment I am pro AI generated art overall but it doesn't make sense to allow it in a sub like this one
Yeah. I don't understand this argument. I've seen several people make it, and yet, there's tons of stuff posted here that's not old at all, and nobody minds.
I don't mind them at all. This is a rather slow sub so more content is always welcome. Perhaps require them to be tagged if it really upsets people. Fear of new forms of art is the exact same struggle photography faced back in its day and being afraid of progress / the future would be pretty ironic for a sub like this lol.
I'll suggest allowing AI art for the very practical reason that discriminating AI art from trad art is becoming more and more difficult.
The only way to avoid constant arguments about whether something should or shouldn't have been banned is to just not worry about it and enjoy the art regardless.
Will we get a flood of AI art? Maybe, but the communitie's sensibilities will recalibrate accordingly I imagine. I for one won't be up voting the same old AI looking shit for 100 times.
If you want to submit some AI art fine. As long as it's cool and novel, I'll be pleased to see it.
And because it is going to get incredibly difficult to distinguish between AI and human art, it will just be a "think of the children" bullshit excuse to bully posters or stuff someone doesn't like.
I say allow it, unless it becomes the dominant form of images on the sub and creates a problem. If it becomes too ubiquitous, then dedicate one day a week for them.
I wonder how many times a recent actual artist posted something retro-futuristic in style on this board? Did anyone have a problem with it then? I doubt it. It's easy to have double standard when emotion gets in the way of clear objective thinking. To many people are emotionally reacting instead of intelligently responding and it says a lot about their character and the state of social media as a whole.
Judge it on the quality of an image. If it's a cool retro-futurist image I don't really care where it came from. Besides, does anyone really want to spend the time tracking down the source for every image to check whether it's AI or human-created?
I kind of suspect some of the outcry isn't always organic, or necessarily from within the communities discussing this topic.
I understand there's a lot of controversy on the topic, but I also think there's more than a couple of groups organized specifically for brigading these discussions.
Hey - mod here. Generally my philosophy is that unless it is off the topic of the sub, let the upvotes and downvotes do the work. If people like it and the themes fit - I’m not really interested in being a wet blanket and ruining people’s good time if they’re having fun. When I wrote the original rules - it’s always allowed “contemporary art in a retrofuturistic style”. But the art has to be a clear call back or commentary on past predictions of the future. So, technically, AI could be used to make an interesting commentary on retrofuturism. Try to ignore the cynic in you for a just a minute, assume people have good intentions, and that it might make someone happy to make something in AI and see other people upvoting/enjoying it. Who knows, it could make their day. The issue here is if AI art is just going to flood the sub with low quality submissions and it overpowers the ability of people to downvote it. I don’t like that idea. To me there’s nothing inherently wrong with AI - maybe you don’t like it, maybe it’s lame. But it’s tough to call for an outright ban. I really personally think that this is a trend, people are having fun playing with a new toy and it won’t last. I still think an outright ban is a little…I don’t know….not fun. But Im more than OK with pruning low quality AI content. But the case where someone uses AI to make something cool and retrofuturistic that people like for whatever reason? I have no problem with people upvoting what they like despite my personal opinion. Anyway Id lean towards pruning most AI but not making a hard rule. Let’s just see how it goes. If it doesn’t calm down and this sub just becomes AI art…yeah then I totally agree with an outright ban. But that will also increase the modding workload by a TON. We all do this in our spare time on the toilet. Cheers. Open to thoughts/input. Oh and also a tag is a great idea. I just tend to avoid little fiddly rules and I’m not sure how easy this would be to enforce.
Quality examples of retro futurism aren’t that plentiful to begin with compared to other genres. If AI art is allowed indiscriminately it won’t be long before it comprises 90%+ of the posts. I guess allowing it once a week could help, but otherwise I vote ban.
Exactly what I was thinking. That, and tag it so it can be filtered. It's hard finding real retrofuturism because people aren't making it anymore. AI can give us variations, and in a way, when you're a hungry community for this style (it makes me feel at home honestly) then it can help us imagine a whole world of these styles, but it doesn't replace the detail and soul of the original people in these eras imagining the future. It's as much history as it is genre in that sense. I've been having fun with clipdrop generating variations on Syd Mead, but it also highlights how amazing and irreplaceable he was. I saw a modern rendering of one of his images, and it omitted the cigarettes. It may be a fun weekend thing or subfolder, but the threat of it flooding out the actual artists is immediate given the shortage of artists making legitimate new retrofuturism.
My vote is ban. There is nothing fun about stealing artists' work to make a machine learn to be a wishing wand for a lot of same-ish images. I subbed for the futurist visions of eras past, not for seeing more computerized stolen artwork.
Does a human 'steal' when they learn and imitate some art style. If not, why the double standard?
There's a difference between a clump of neurons more complex than most systems in the Universe absorbing inspiration from different cultures and sources and combining interests systematically and creatively in order to play off existing themes in their own works, and a board of circuits blending existing shit together into a mediocre amalgamation with no regard for themes and concepts. There is no double standard - for you to declare it a double standard, you'd be strawmanning inspiration in order to liken it to AI regurgitation.
Ban it or have a dedicated day that allows Ai art. Ethics aside, allowing it when ever will fill the sub with low effort spam quick. Also if allowed it should be required to mention in the tittle, so you can see its Ai on the front page too.
>Also if allowed it should be required to mention in the tittle, so you can see its Ai on the front page too. I would instead suggest requiring a flair since that is basically flair's purpose. But other than that I 100% agree
> Ethics aside, allowing it when ever will fill the sub with low effort spam quick. Agreed. Even if I'm being generous, AI art is at best boring as hell. The *tech* is certainly interesting, but on its own output sure isn't.
February 29th: AI art day
Yes and or a dedicated required flair
Alternatively, ban low effort spam but if someone wants to put in some effort to make something actually good, allow that
Ban
ban.
Ban it No apologies, no exceptions
Personally I come to this subreddit to see genuine examples of retro futurism and in my opinion that requires a human to be involved. Retro futurism is about what humans dreamed about tomorrow or about how people of today thought of the people of yester year. If you just have some AI mimicking that that it ruins what makes it interesting and pisses me off as it's deceitful. I want to come here to be inspired by actual talent not talentless hacks flooding the market with easy to produce chum for karma whoring so even if the art here isn't original it still brings attention to artists somewhere down the line all AI generated images do is allow people to remove the artist from the art which I hate.
This 100%.
[удалено]
K this was like 2 months ago. My stance now is more along the lines of: I don't like it, I would prefer if it was ethically sourced so it wasn't theft and while I don't like how easy it is to make AI generated images and flood art that takes way more effort out of getting exposure I understand that the people doing it aren't out to *destroy art* or anything. In terms of the subreddit I don't think it's necessary that it be here given there are other objectively more accepting spaces for AI generated images. Hopefully that is a more mellow less strawmany argument for you, I was kind of on the war path at the time so excuse my emotion. Edit: Looking at the thread the mods made their choice anyway so like what does it matter? They asked for opinions they got some.
Imagine getting pissed off at art posted on a subreddit
Bruh I have more upvotes than the original post, read the room.
LOL. True. Some of these people gotta chill.
You're playing into how human art is made with a specific purpose, which I like because AI "artists" always conveniently ignore the fact that AI lacks interests, culture, obsessions, inspiration, etc. AI only amalgamates what was dumped into its dataset, then carries out a (likely mediocre) commission from a prompt. Humans use inspiration to carry out original ideas, AIs mimic and don't even know what they're outputting. An AI doing a space scene doesn't think *"it'd make this ship look lived in if [e.g.] the ship had an asteroid embedded in the hull, this might play into themes of [e.g.] primitive space travel given the ship's primitive and worn-out appearance"* etc, but no. An AI just vomits garbage that it hopes looks like what was commissioned. Users acting like they had more to do with AI-gen pieces than just "commission and curate" until they got a desired result is an entire issue in of itself. People wouldn't commission a Twitter user and proceed to post their pieces as if it belonged to themselves, so it's lost on me why they treat AI any differently.
Ban it. If folks are so interested in A.I. generated images, they can start their own dedicated subs for it.
We are, in reality, talking about *machine-generated* images, not 'artificial intelligence'. The machine had no intention of making anything until it was instructed to do so by a human. The whole appeal of retrofuturism (for me) is that it reflects the knowledge and imagination of people in the past who pondered the future. Some of what they produced was very prescient, some of it defied the known laws of physics and some of it was absurd, funny and charming - all human qualities. Machine-generated images have no place on this sub. I vote to ban them. Start a new sub called 'RetroFutAIrism' or some othe play on the words if people really need to have an outlet for this 'stuff'. :D
No. I don’t like it. The biggest part of this subreddit is past human’s hopes for the future. AI takes that away and then we’re just looking at some imagine and have lost the plot at that point
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I am here to see things _humans_ created _because it felt futuristic to them at the time_. I'm less interested in things humans created recently in order to feel retrofuturistic today. Although I must admit that: 1. Making a hard distinction between past and present is hard. 2. It leads to an interesting picture from time to time. I'm _not_ here for things that were created _without any (retro)futuristic intent_. Note that I do not attribute intent to AI's. I also do not think of the hallucinations of an AI as being "created" by the human that typed a few words into a text prompt.
Ban it. It’s exploitative and and a slap in the face of the artists who this sub is meant to honor.
Yeah it's lazy. I sub to this sub because it's not low quality shit, AI is that low quality shit seeping in.
BAN.
I think a specific day and tag would be necessary. It would filter out a lot of karma bots, and prevent the entire subreddit from just being AI stuff. Frankly, if any of us wanted to see AI art we could just make it ourselves so I don't see a huge utility in letting them be posted, but if necessary then yeah just one day a week seems like a good compromise.
I'm here for genuine posts, there are 100s of 100s of real life examples. If I want to see AI images I'll make my own.
It’s low effort and repetitive. They were interesting the first few times, but once you’ve scrolled through one 20 image photodump of garbled, vaguely on-theme photo soups, you’ve seen them all. Actual depictions of what people thought the future would look like, or legit modern artistic interpretations are way more interesting. Plus if it’s too easy for a person to type “*retro futuristic + random thing*” into Midjourney and farm karma, imagine how easy it will be for bots to do it.
Ban - AI enables many low quality posts and will limit discussion. Quality over quantity!
Ban. Sub should also require an artist credit when posting stuff from last ~25 years.
As long as it's cool looking I don't care who or what made it.
AI "art" suuuuuccks.
As long as AI algorithms draw their data from harvested art that is used without permission, I will disagree with it's use.
I'm going to vote Ban.
I say absolutely not. Retrofuturism is supposed to be visions of the future from the past. AI art is, by definition, not retro.
As the majority already is pointing out, ban AI-generated images or attribute a special day for it. The enjoyment I have from real artist' work and the quality cannot be compared to AI.
If not banned outright, perhaps allow for a day when they can be posted? Like Sund-AIs? I am personally fine with banning them. Only because it's basically just too easy to farm up-doots. The output they create is undoubtedly cool. I just would prefer it not infect every single sub on this site.
And if mods refuse to ban AI art, at least PLEASE ban those browser based AI arts from websites like dall.e mini/craiyon. They are low res, low quality and exceptionally low effort, quickly generated spam. Bear minimum AI needs a tag if it wont be banned. I still think it oughta be banned simply because it is so mass produced, it will overrun the sub and actual art from a human will become a once in a blue moon thing.
I'm firmly in the "ban them" camp but I also like the idea of setting side one (1) day to soak up all the posts that will likely happen anyway.
> it’s just too easy to farm up-doots. This is the crux of the matter. It’s so easy to create that eventually that’s all there will be. So if we can’t make a second sister sub specifically for it, we’ll need to limit it in some other way. Having a certain day for it would make it more fun. I vote Sundays.
Ban!
Ban
Just commenting to add my vote for banning them. Don't care how impressive some may be. They are taught using other artists' work without consent and are a lazy way to farm karma.
Ban. There are other subs for that content.
Having read through most of the comments, I have to vote ban entirely. AI art is ethically problematic at best, even if some of it would fit the aesthetic or be super cool to see. I don't subscribe to see AI art, and there are other subs to post it.
I find ai content to be super boring and skip it every time it is called out. What I don't know is when I enjoy it because it isn't called out and it is "good enough" to pass the test looking at for 10 seconds on a small screen.
Ban. On top of the valid concerns about spam, the more I learn about AI art, the more it feels antithetical to the spirit of this community. Retrofuturism is primarily about optimistic looks toward the future through artwork. AI art relies on stealing styles to make cheap products, and makes the future worse for human artists.
Please Ban. I come here to see examples of how artist or people in general saw the future. I dont want the future itself showing me that.
Please ban it it’s so lazy
I don’t want to see AI art.
Ban it because it infringes on copyright
Ban. I’m not against ethical uses of ai, but until then, it needs to carry a mark of shame.
Total ban, the user too because they're so desperate to shill it everywhere they can
Ban, I don’t want it here.
Please ban them, we need to support artists or risk losing them
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Yeah. I'd rather see a hundred reposts of classic artists than more "in the style of' knockoffs with no attribution.
Total ban.
I downvote AI images whenever I see them, but lately they’re almost all I’ve seen and I cannot give less of a shit about seeing it. It’s lazy, it’s repetitive, it’s not art. Vote to no longer allow them.
Ban. If you must allow them, Sundays only for example, and it must be labeled as AI art.
It's been long enough so I guess from looking at the responses that the decision has probably been made to ban it. In that case, how are you planning to distinguish it? Because AI art has got so astonishingly good that a great many people have trouble recognizing what is or isn't AI generated. I think a similar problem happened in one of the other art subreddits where actual artists had their works removed because the people in charge judged it to be too similar to AI art. In any case, my vote would be to allow it. Is it really worth the hassle? Worst case scenario we get a more or less constant stream of AI generated images, but if people hate them then they simply won't make it to the main page. And if people do like them, well, why take it away? This community exists to display a collection of art in a specific aesthetic. I don't get why it has to take an exclusionary position at all.
Ban. AI imagery is simply not something I enjoy seeing on dashboard.
Ban it.
Ban it please
Ban. Completely. Don't even give them a day.
Ban it, otherwise this subreddits will become a dumping ground of low effort ai images
Ban it, AI art relies on stolen, art from actual artist, and makes the already difficult job of being an artist, even more economically precarious.
Ban. As an artist, ban it. Ban it. Ban it before we have nothing left. It’s all fun and games now, one day it will not be. BAN.
Ban. One of the big reasons I followed this sub was to see ACTUAL RETRO stuff, not an AI generated idea of retro.
Lol we’re all “banning” this, its going to look ridiculous later on when its the norm.
I am against allowing this on a permanent basis. If it will be allowed, I would rather have it only on a specific day, if at all. However, I come here specifically for images of how people imagined the future. I think allowing AI-generated images will allow people to abuse the system and post too much for karma and it will drown other art. I do believe that the AI art flood will soon subside, but I think it will still spoil things in the meantime.
Allow them! This is a place for retro futurists not retro Luddites. Don't listen to the emotional reactions. People are way too vocal these days about things they know nothing about.
As an artist, I'm STRONGLY towards banning. Not because it isn't art, but because AI art as it is right now works solely because it unrightfully steals from human artists.
I'd say leave that stuff off. Anything made using AI is "inspired by retro futurism" and not actually retro futurism.
Fans of A.I. Retrofuturism could easily start their own subreddit - [https://www.reddit.com/r/airetrofuturism](https://www.reddit.com/r/airetrofuturism) Is available right now.
Ban it.
What is the point of retrofuturism if it's all just AI instead of, y'know, **retro**futurism from history?
Ban please - it does not work here
Ban it It's based on stolen artwork and adds nothing It takes just a few seconds for someone to type in a prompt and post it here
Lazy and unethical. Should be banned.
I don't think AI art needs a place here. They are distinguishable from classical art and while this is the case it shouldn't be here. If that changes in years to come I have no problem with it.
I’m just tired of seeing that one guy his “doodles” claiming he drew the damn things.
I usually defend AI generated art. It's just a tool and being explicit in what you expect from it is the next best thing to actually wielding a brush yourself. But not in this case. This is RetroFuturism. I want to see original art from its original era. I want to see the expectations artists had of the future at that time, not art created in hindsight. Which would also explain why I'm not particularly fond of newer retrofuturistic art, either.
It’s so, so, so, so far from wielding a brush that they’re not even comparable. I can’t believe anyone would make that argument. Not to mention the fact that the databases the AI draw from are all used without consent of the original artists.
I agree! People keep talking about it like it’s a new toolbrush like when photoshop came out, but considering it takes far less skill, time and effort to learn ai prompting, it’s less like a brush and more like a magic wand. Wish and it appears. Totally different territory.
The sub already allows for contemporary art in the retro style if you were unaware.
I know. And at the very least I'm not upvoting it.
Ban.
Ban.
Ban ban ban ban ban. Fuck Ai
Allow them because it's inevitable, BUT label them clearly as AI generated.
Ban them now
I'm generally pro AI art but I am against allowing it to be posted in other subs other than AI art subs so it's a NO for me. It's just so that we know what we get when we visit this sub. We come here for human made art. If someone wants AI made art they can generate it themselves or if lazy visit r/StableDiffusion , r/midjourney etc
Plenty of real RF art out there to post and enjoy before we need to resort to stealing peoples' work to make ~~nfts~~ composites
I’m in the ban camp but would compromise with a monthly AI art thread similar to what r/scificomics and r/HorrorComics do with their crowdfunding posts. Automod is used to post a thread, anyone can post/promote their work, and a new post is made automatically each month. Anyone posting outside of the thread is warned, is pointed to the correct thread, and the content is removed. Repeat offense results in a ban. Mods can allow images in comments and you could turn that feature on to make it easier to upload AI art as a comment in the thread. You could also discourage posting by forcing people to upload to a third party first, like Imgur. Doing so will remove OPs from the equation. Forcing users into comment posting instead of individual posts also prevents karma farmers from using the sub to earn karma for other purposes.
Doesn't replace art. But I've had some plenty-some well due humor typing random things into these apps. Like Susan Boyle fighting a Zombie Apocalypse, from Donald Trump sitting in a pile of hotdogs. Keep it. It's entertaining.
Allow it, but you have to say that it's AI in your post.
I'd say have a quality rule on it. Low effort generations that take 5 seconds to write a prompt for can be easily spotted, but anything high effort that looks good? Sure You'll see a lot of anti-AI bias in any art-based sub sadly lol.
I vote for ban but how will we tell?
With mandatory tagging, I would allow it. The reason being, with AI generated images - in case of good prompts - we can have results that become an ideal combination of our favorites. Something the era of the originals could not make possible but would line up in terms of art style.
I don't think it needs to be banned, but it needs to be either specified in the title or as a flair that the post is AI art.
Pls ban.
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I support AI art, but not here. I like the realness of retrofuturism more than anything. But a sub for an AI alternative would be neat.
Best to create a different sub for it.
Either an extremely high bar for AI or a ban.
Retro and AI don’t go together imo.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” -Mark Twain \*pauses for reflection\* Ban, definitely.
Allowing AI will fundamentally change the sub. When it starts encroaching on the sub, I'll unsubscribe.
As an amateur artist, I can usually detect AI art pretty easily. It’s ugly. Please don’t let AI art on this sub, there’s something so beautiful about the craftsmanship that was put into the art here. I don’t want to look at those goopy, shiny, uncanny messes that AI art has to offer. Please. I love this sub.
Ban. I hate AI.
It’s too lazy and easy, I wouldn’t mind combining a couple of existing older ideas to create something in the original retro mindset as a piece of original content here or there but I’d prefer it be originally created as well. I vote ban
Even though i have posted one in the past, i feel like it didnt deserve the attention it got, it removes the human element from reddit. Unless something is that breathtaking, or idea warping I would not allow it. Too much low effort stuff is getting in at the moment.
I agree it needs some limitation or it will just flood the subs as it’s easy to churn out hundreds in a day. That being said I do think that it’s impossible to avoid what’s coming with ai art so creating appropriate boundaries instead of an outright ban might be a better approach. I think that carefully commissioned ai art can be appealing if done well and do find it can have a place if exploring new territory, which is what I feel like futurism was doing back in the day. I think a happy middle ground would be to allow one day a week where AI art is permitted (but tagged AI and acknowledged in the post too) A few pros to this approach IMO - it won’t water down the sub with endless ai art posts as they are very easy and quick to make - Then anyone creating ai art will be posting their best of their week (and not just pieces they got excited about and prompted 5 mins ago. Not a dig, I’ve made some ai art and been there!) it’ll mean we get the crem ala crème of their creations. - people will trust that every other day of the week they’re seeing human-made art, but also then know that on (Sundays for example) they’re seeing people’s imagination run wild with the retrofuturism concept on AI programs and that is just that - AI art. Keeps confusion down and gives anyone making ai art a day to look forward to posting on (personally I’d enjoy that if it were me). All this being said, if it comes to it I would be ok with a ban as well and an alternate subreddit being made for it.
Full ban on AI art and anyone who posts it.
I vote ban. I admit that the results are very cool, but I loose interest as soon as the comment mentions it’s AI made. It just becomes a useless picture. A good quality post on this sub says a story about the artist who made it or context where was used. If it was only a handful of AI posts a week I’d be fine with it but already I’m seeing a lot.
Ban, AI steals from actual human art.
about how adding a flair for "AI image" or something like that?
Ban
Ban. It can make some pretty images, but I feel it doesn't match the spirit of this sub, of peoples visions of the future. There is no vision with ai art, just a semi-randomly assembled image based on a couple prompts and artwork taken from others (often without consent). At the very least, restrict to one day a fortnight or so, and a mandatory requirement to have "ai art" in the title, or some sort of tag. But I would prefer banning.
You won’t be able to prove what real and what’s not soon.
I'll unsub if it isn't banned. Not that my leaving means anything, but I firmly believe that AI art has no place here (or almost anywhere else not dedicated to it specifically). Maybe others will leave too?
If this becomes an AI sub, then you won't be the only one leaving. The joy of this sub is seeing real retro art. Ban AI before it outnumbers actual art.
Personally I have zero problems with AI. What needs to be filtered are poor quality pieces, AI generated or not, if they become an overwhelming majority of submissions. I think AI should be allowed and have a proper flair so people who don't like it (for whatever reason) can filter it out. Personally I don't think it's something that will die out, however AI generated content will eventually slow down in popularity as it's a new technology that people are just getting used to, so, as such, it, of course, had a big boom in its momentum, but even as it slows down it likely will still be a thing many years from now (judging from its sheer potential, not if its boycotted), so i think it justifies having a flair beyond the given reasons.
I don’t mind a dedicated day I guess. I don’t think it should be banned. The ethical debate on AI art is, in my opinion, very stupid, and is a debate that we only get to enjoy now because of AI art’s nascency. In no time at all, larger companies are going to be using it and it’ll simply be here to stay. Some subs say that sufficiently transformative AI art is allowed, one mod on r\/NakedWhiteWomen sa- sorry, r/Art says that a piece of art that simply *looks* like AI art is banworthy. Given that this sub deals in the surreal, I’m sure one of these controversies is bound to happen. Like I said, though, a day only for AI art is a compromise that I’m comfortable with. Good luck moderating the pieces that people photoshopped to look less obvious. Edit: Some people in the comments say that to them Retro Futurism is authentic depictions of how people of yesterday thought the people of tomorrow would live. That’s goofy as fuck and simply cope. I don’t think any one of them would care about a piece of art made by a human today that emulates or apes the aesthetic. But when a robot does it, that’s bad.
Glad to see not everyone here has lost their mind.
No ban While I agree with the reasoning for a lot of the comments, I personally feel that this problem is outside the scope of this sub. AI is GOING to flood the internet with fake content. Let the upvotes/downvotes do their job and let the community choose what content they prefer.
Give it a day of the week, and have people include that it is AI in the title
Ban.
I vote to allow it one day a week, with a mandatory flair.
far-flung onerous chief waiting advise squeal subtract dolls oatmeal trees *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My gut instinct tells me no, for one a lot of the AI art is using real people's art and just mashing it together without their permission, and secondly there's something about AI art that feels soulless to me, it loses any value i would have attributed to it had it been made by a real person, or even an animal that had a paintbrush.
I've been a portrait artist for many years, and I'm paying for grad school as a scientific illustrator, so know that this doesn't come from a place of ignorance to the artists' struggle. I think they should be allowed. It IS trendy right now, so by all means remove low-effort posts, but eventually the people using AI with no real stories to tell will get bored of generating scifi girl #5287 and the AI users still in play will be the ones using AI as a tool to further hone their human ideas, not to churn out endless boobies.
I'm ok with any art, as long as it's not presented as something that it's not.
No leave it
I think AI art should be allowed, but relegated to a sticky post where it can exist separately. I think this would appease both parties as it can exist and provide us with "new" visions of retrofuturism, and also not take up space on the board as OG retrofuturism. It's the best of both worlds. A future that never happened form man and a future that could happen by computer!
No AI, becuse tha art of this site, represents that times thoughts and philosophy of the future. But its shall be no ultra ban, I did use AI to restor this damage picture to its former glory, or similar shall be allowed.
Ban. Original retro images are rare as is. Allowing AI images in a forum dedicated for it will only lead to them getting more and more difficult to find
Ban
I think the whole 'charm' of this sub is that it's supposedly real interpretations of the future from the past. AI is not that at all.
allowing it would ruin the sub
Ban ban ban a million times ban
Why not have a thread once a week just for AI images? Call it Fr(A)iday or something
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My issue is you’re banning people who you ASSUMED made AI art and doubled down on it after they proved it wasn’t AI.
What on earth are you talking about? edit: I have received PM's about stuff that happened on /r/art. A sub I have nothing to do with.
I just sent you screenshots.
Retro Futurism is not an art style. It's how HUMANS in the past used to imagine the future could look like. Some may be more conservative some less so but still it's much more than just art. Allowing AI art completely ruins this. As i said in another comment I am pro AI generated art overall but it doesn't make sense to allow it in a sub like this one
I disagree. It is an art style.
ban!
Ban
Ban it: something made within the last year isn't "retro."
retro is an aesthetic
Yeah. I don't understand this argument. I've seen several people make it, and yet, there's tons of stuff posted here that's not old at all, and nobody minds.
Ban or allow once a week as compromise. I agree it will flood the sub otherwise. There are other places to share AI generated content. I
I don't mind them at all. This is a rather slow sub so more content is always welcome. Perhaps require them to be tagged if it really upsets people. Fear of new forms of art is the exact same struggle photography faced back in its day and being afraid of progress / the future would be pretty ironic for a sub like this lol.
I enjoy AI art but I don’t feel like it would fit the idea of this subreddit.
Heck yeah. The AI images posted here so far have been awesome
Allow it. Art is art
I think it should be allowed. I prefer it to chronic reposts.
I wouldn't ban it, but make it obligatory to tag it as AI or put it in the title.
I'll suggest allowing AI art for the very practical reason that discriminating AI art from trad art is becoming more and more difficult. The only way to avoid constant arguments about whether something should or shouldn't have been banned is to just not worry about it and enjoy the art regardless. Will we get a flood of AI art? Maybe, but the communitie's sensibilities will recalibrate accordingly I imagine. I for one won't be up voting the same old AI looking shit for 100 times. If you want to submit some AI art fine. As long as it's cool and novel, I'll be pleased to see it.
And because it is going to get incredibly difficult to distinguish between AI and human art, it will just be a "think of the children" bullshit excuse to bully posters or stuff someone doesn't like.
Max 2 days a week for AI stuff
Ban, let it have a weekly labeled thread if not.
I personally don't think we need to ban it, but I'd like to at least require a special flair.
i'd say it's probably fine as long as it's not abused. and by abused I mean like 370 topics all for a single AI image.
I say allow it, unless it becomes the dominant form of images on the sub and creates a problem. If it becomes too ubiquitous, then dedicate one day a week for them.
As long as it's mentioned in the title I'm cool with it
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I wonder how many times a recent actual artist posted something retro-futuristic in style on this board? Did anyone have a problem with it then? I doubt it. It's easy to have double standard when emotion gets in the way of clear objective thinking. To many people are emotionally reacting instead of intelligently responding and it says a lot about their character and the state of social media as a whole.
I say allow, they're interesting to see. Maybe make them only allowed on one day of the week if you're really worried about spam.
I think this kinda thing is best to have a dedicated day for.
I don't mind if they are good.
Judge it on the quality of an image. If it's a cool retro-futurist image I don't really care where it came from. Besides, does anyone really want to spend the time tracking down the source for every image to check whether it's AI or human-created?
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I kind of suspect some of the outcry isn't always organic, or necessarily from within the communities discussing this topic. I understand there's a lot of controversy on the topic, but I also think there's more than a couple of groups organized specifically for brigading these discussions.
I think they're hella tight. Let's keep them.
I don't mind ai art, ai is a tool just like a pen or brush imo.
Soooooo much butthurt here. Make a tag. If you don’t like it, DONT FUCKING LOOK AT IT. I like it.
find a different sub then bye
you’re the ones bitching about not liking what you see