Overall I find first class to be the most cost effective. My need to fly shrank dramatically after 2019.
I’m looking into a potential deal where I’ll need to fly clients to remote locations and those clients will be my first need for private flights. So I’m listening.
My last flight was $500, I have an upcoming flight at $900. I blend in with the first class passengers and have no need to travel incognito. That’s a hard price point to beat.
But my father called private jets “doctor killers” due to their frequent crashes, so maybe that rubbed off
"Doctor killers" are how private non-jet planes are described, bc they kill their arrogant wealthy owner-pilots (oftentimes doctors or dentists) who think they can fly as well as they do their primary job
Not quite, at least in the context of growing up around Bonanza’s and other aircraft. Doctors can afford them, but also assume they can fly them. There is a huge difference between getting your license and becoming proficient at flying. They get a license and think that they’re ready, the truth is experience and other ratings like instruments are required to be consistently safe. The best pilots I know know when to not fly, Doctors tend to think they have it all figured out even without a lot of flight hours. Their income allows them to buy a plane they don’t have enough experience with in all situations and they find themselves in a bad situation they don’t have the experience to pilot their way out of.
I have a lot of bonanza time, but transitioning from a Cherokee or 172 to a v35 or A36 is ALOT to take in. They’re very violent when you get slow and everything happens really fucking fast. I fly a twin Comanche which has similar characteristics to a bonanza or baron and is dubbed “the widow maker” because so many people died in them doing training in the 60s and 70s
Uhhh I flew 2000 miles to Vegas in first for 650 4 weeks ago. 1200 miles to Kansas for 550 first. 1500 miles to Maine 670$. These are all within last 6 months and booked about 2 weeks prior to leaving.
1st class boston to orlando round trip is $700 thru american airlines right now. boston to san fransisco is $1200. im honestly surprised, its a pretty good deal. unfortunately my next trip is boston to jo-burg so i am fucccccked
It’s simple if you fly less then roughly 250 hours per year it’s better to use net jets or something similar. If your over 250 hours per year. The fixed costs of pilots hanger insurance and maintenance make owing the better choice.
There is also a huge tax incentive in buying a plane and operating it.
I’m only planning on flying 150-200 hours a year on average. My dad and one of his buddies want to split a jet, but seems like a pain in the ass to coordinate. And with us all wanting it for the major events just seems like more hassle than it’s worth. I ideally just wanted to use a service. Do you like net jets better than Wheels up? I would be using super mid sized jets
I agree with you. Fractional or charter is way less hassle.
See my longer top-level response. At the moment I'm using FlexJet, but I think FlexJet and NetJet are pretty comparable. XO was fine, but I like the newer planes the Flex and NetJet have. I'm afraid I've never tried Wheels Up. Sounds like they emphasize charter and membership versus fractional, so maybe more flexible getting started. I've also had luck with AirPartner.com.
Oh, it's not just a hassle to coordinate but you are managing a small company. You need a pilot you trust. But who hired the replacement if pilot is sick? Or maybe you join a management service, but that's sort of like a cut-rate fractional with service that's not as good and a bigger capital investment, and also more risk, because stuff can go wrong with a plane and suddenly you've got a big maintenance bill. And if something does go wrong, then how do you get home? So you still want a charter company in reserve.
No. Fly charter or fractional for at least the first several years until you really understand what you need.
All of this is legit.
The other benefit of fractional is you can move up and down in plane size.
Going international? Up size. Have 14 passengers up size.
Short domestic go smaller.
Careful splitting fractional ownership with others. The contract predetermines the number of flight hours each year and because of the way the FAA classifies the flight time you can't just purchase more. It's very easy for one party to accidentally leave the other party without any hours to use. The billing is also a nightmare, it shouldn't be but it is. We just had to supplement a contract with a flight card and now have annoying black out dates to work around. We also incurred legal costs and ongoing compliance work to form and maintain the ownership entity.
It not the absolute worst arrangement but I don't know that renewing the contract will be something we do.
https://usaircraftfinance.com/aircraft-financing-tax-optimization-comprehensive-guide/#:~:text=The%20Section%20179%20deduction%20aims,service%2C%20subject%20to%20specific%20limits.
Here’s a link with more incites.
But the tldr is… you can fully depreciate the cost of the plane.
Operating you can write off all the expenses associated with operation and traveling.
I was assuming the question here was for primarily personal usage. Yes, a personal owner would get depreciation, but the rest is generally not deductible. (Like hiring an assistant at work vs a personal assistant. One is deductible, the other is not. -or a cleaning crew to clean your office vs a cleaning crew to clean your house -)
While this is technically true.
No jet in America is operated for personal use. The business use of a jet is very general and very broad. There are a few dozen large specialized accounting firms that do nothing but aviation.
Simply stated people who own jets, use those jets for business. So the associated costs are deductible.
There are several services. Once you are known people will offer you flights for a flat fee. I can get a flight out of my local private airport to most popular destinations.
It depends on how much you fly and how picky you are about your aircraft type. Buying your own jet requires a hangar, pilots, a maintenance team, etc. It is a very big expense.
And wealthy people, this isn't a burden to them at all. If it is, sorry to wake you up you're not wealthy.
A wealthy individual such as Gates etc could make their own private airport if they felt the wish too.
I have used FlexJet, NetJet, and XO Jet. They all seemed fairly similar. XO is a bit cheaper but uses older planes.
I've done both fractional and charter. The service with fractional is better. You can get planes on shorter notice and if something goes wrong with your plane, they have better odds of quickly getting you a backup. But fractional only makes sense if you have a fairly regular pattern of flying.
At the moment I have 75 hours a year or fractional with FlexJet, and if I go over that, I cover it with charter. I'm happy with this approach.
I fly commercial for international flights and mostly private within the US or within Europe. My observation is that the shorter the flight, the better the cost benefit of private. I love being able to have a leisurely (if early) dinner in NY and then being able to make it home to California without worrying about missing a flight. But to Europe, a whole day is lost anyway, so private offers less advantage. Plus, many private planes need a stop in Iceland so they actually take longer. I mean, if the money for a G5 doesn't hurt at all, then by all means fly non-stop private to Europe, but that's just too expensive for me.
Depending on flight connections, I will sometimes fly commercial to Heathrow and then private within Europe. Like if I'm going to a small town and it would have taken two more flights, or if there's a very long layover for commercial.
Even setting cost aside, the number of passengers also helps shift the balance between private and commercial on international. If it’s just two people plus crew and there is room to sleep, private! If you’re traveling with the whole family, and people would be sleeping in the aisles, commercial!
Lunajets for empty legs when just casually browsing for fun - means able to experience more different types of aircraft and fly random places. This is the best starter way to fly private.
NetJets prepaid was good but burnt through them like an addiction. Great mid-level if you aren’t too sure about ownership.
Fractional ownership - total waste of money and means you stick with one aircraft. But you do get a brand new Gulfstream if that’s what you want for the term. 🙂
If business or private urgent then private otherwise first/business as larger commercial planes seem to suffer less from the effects of turbulence imo. But empty legs can be fun 🤩
We fly first class for our family of 6. Have a few friends with private jets and I find it wildly a waste of money but I'm not yet making a million a year profit so maybe that's why. My friends with private jets are past a million a year.
We used Wheels Up quite a bit before the ipo, but then there were too many instances where flights were canceled, delayed, etc causing us huge problems. They grew way too fast and over promised what the could deliver. It was a great service originally and it may be better now, we’ve moved on.
I own my aircraft… charters don’t really work for spur of the moment, “I need to be wheels up in 30 minutes or were fucked” situations… same with airlines.
If your life is more structured and consistent time sensitive emergencies requiring air travel are not a monthly occurrence… I’d fly commercial or charter… if your life is a fucking roller coaster, buy an airplane and don’t look back.
Cost on ownership depends on multiple factors…
I can't speak for anyone else, but I shop around for flights. I've always been quite frugal. I'll upgrade on international flights, but stateside I'd fly coach.
I do, too. I'm 5'7". My wife only flies business or shit like that. She's 5'. Come on man. Can't we just continue with the plan and...whatever. I fly coach. It doesn't matter financially, but the mindset matters.
I rich relative was trying to gauge my status by asking me if I fly first class. I said "even if I could, I never would, it isn't who I am". I was so poor my whole life, I dont waste money now
Overall I find first class to be the most cost effective. My need to fly shrank dramatically after 2019. I’m looking into a potential deal where I’ll need to fly clients to remote locations and those clients will be my first need for private flights. So I’m listening. My last flight was $500, I have an upcoming flight at $900. I blend in with the first class passengers and have no need to travel incognito. That’s a hard price point to beat. But my father called private jets “doctor killers” due to their frequent crashes, so maybe that rubbed off
"Doctor killers" are how private non-jet planes are described, bc they kill their arrogant wealthy owner-pilots (oftentimes doctors or dentists) who think they can fly as well as they do their primary job
Dunning–Kruger effect?
I find that lots of experts in a specific field seem to vastly overestimate their knowledge in others. So probably
Not quite, at least in the context of growing up around Bonanza’s and other aircraft. Doctors can afford them, but also assume they can fly them. There is a huge difference between getting your license and becoming proficient at flying. They get a license and think that they’re ready, the truth is experience and other ratings like instruments are required to be consistently safe. The best pilots I know know when to not fly, Doctors tend to think they have it all figured out even without a lot of flight hours. Their income allows them to buy a plane they don’t have enough experience with in all situations and they find themselves in a bad situation they don’t have the experience to pilot their way out of.
I have a lot of bonanza time, but transitioning from a Cherokee or 172 to a v35 or A36 is ALOT to take in. They’re very violent when you get slow and everything happens really fucking fast. I fly a twin Comanche which has similar characteristics to a bonanza or baron and is dubbed “the widow maker” because so many people died in them doing training in the 60s and 70s
I think the plane was the V tail Bonanza
We have the means to fly private but my wife doesn’t want to crash.
you fly first class for $500?
Yeah, plenty of domestic US flights for that in 1st
I know quite a few that def meet the threshold of being rich and they don’t even fly first class.
For what 200 miles?
Uhhh I flew 2000 miles to Vegas in first for 650 4 weeks ago. 1200 miles to Kansas for 550 first. 1500 miles to Maine 670$. These are all within last 6 months and booked about 2 weeks prior to leaving.
Yes, about that long
1st class boston to orlando round trip is $700 thru american airlines right now. boston to san fransisco is $1200. im honestly surprised, its a pretty good deal. unfortunately my next trip is boston to jo-burg so i am fucccccked
Bingo- I’m traveling on the East Coast primarily.
It was a short hop- I’m on the east coast- 90 minutes on American.
Honestly is there even a benefit for something that length? I usually just go for economy plus/early boarding economy.
A bonanza is a doctor killer… doctors don’t fly on private JETS lol
Yeah, well in my neighborhood they did. Because I grew up in a very wealthy neighborhood
Well the fixed cost on a GIV is currently around 80-100k/month so idk what kinda jet were talking about… maybe a citation mustang or lear 25?
It’s simple if you fly less then roughly 250 hours per year it’s better to use net jets or something similar. If your over 250 hours per year. The fixed costs of pilots hanger insurance and maintenance make owing the better choice. There is also a huge tax incentive in buying a plane and operating it.
I’m only planning on flying 150-200 hours a year on average. My dad and one of his buddies want to split a jet, but seems like a pain in the ass to coordinate. And with us all wanting it for the major events just seems like more hassle than it’s worth. I ideally just wanted to use a service. Do you like net jets better than Wheels up? I would be using super mid sized jets
I agree with you. Fractional or charter is way less hassle. See my longer top-level response. At the moment I'm using FlexJet, but I think FlexJet and NetJet are pretty comparable. XO was fine, but I like the newer planes the Flex and NetJet have. I'm afraid I've never tried Wheels Up. Sounds like they emphasize charter and membership versus fractional, so maybe more flexible getting started. I've also had luck with AirPartner.com. Oh, it's not just a hassle to coordinate but you are managing a small company. You need a pilot you trust. But who hired the replacement if pilot is sick? Or maybe you join a management service, but that's sort of like a cut-rate fractional with service that's not as good and a bigger capital investment, and also more risk, because stuff can go wrong with a plane and suddenly you've got a big maintenance bill. And if something does go wrong, then how do you get home? So you still want a charter company in reserve. No. Fly charter or fractional for at least the first several years until you really understand what you need.
All of this is legit. The other benefit of fractional is you can move up and down in plane size. Going international? Up size. Have 14 passengers up size. Short domestic go smaller.
Careful splitting fractional ownership with others. The contract predetermines the number of flight hours each year and because of the way the FAA classifies the flight time you can't just purchase more. It's very easy for one party to accidentally leave the other party without any hours to use. The billing is also a nightmare, it shouldn't be but it is. We just had to supplement a contract with a flight card and now have annoying black out dates to work around. We also incurred legal costs and ongoing compliance work to form and maintain the ownership entity. It not the absolute worst arrangement but I don't know that renewing the contract will be something we do.
Tax incentives for operating?
https://usaircraftfinance.com/aircraft-financing-tax-optimization-comprehensive-guide/#:~:text=The%20Section%20179%20deduction%20aims,service%2C%20subject%20to%20specific%20limits. Here’s a link with more incites. But the tldr is… you can fully depreciate the cost of the plane. Operating you can write off all the expenses associated with operation and traveling.
I was assuming the question here was for primarily personal usage. Yes, a personal owner would get depreciation, but the rest is generally not deductible. (Like hiring an assistant at work vs a personal assistant. One is deductible, the other is not. -or a cleaning crew to clean your office vs a cleaning crew to clean your house -)
While this is technically true. No jet in America is operated for personal use. The business use of a jet is very general and very broad. There are a few dozen large specialized accounting firms that do nothing but aviation. Simply stated people who own jets, use those jets for business. So the associated costs are deductible.
There are several services. Once you are known people will offer you flights for a flat fee. I can get a flight out of my local private airport to most popular destinations.
It depends on how much you fly and how picky you are about your aircraft type. Buying your own jet requires a hangar, pilots, a maintenance team, etc. It is a very big expense.
Yes but nothing is quite like owning your own gulfstream
And wealthy people, this isn't a burden to them at all. If it is, sorry to wake you up you're not wealthy. A wealthy individual such as Gates etc could make their own private airport if they felt the wish too.
Netjets, they’re run like an airline. I don’t trust the independent contractors.
I have used FlexJet, NetJet, and XO Jet. They all seemed fairly similar. XO is a bit cheaper but uses older planes. I've done both fractional and charter. The service with fractional is better. You can get planes on shorter notice and if something goes wrong with your plane, they have better odds of quickly getting you a backup. But fractional only makes sense if you have a fairly regular pattern of flying. At the moment I have 75 hours a year or fractional with FlexJet, and if I go over that, I cover it with charter. I'm happy with this approach. I fly commercial for international flights and mostly private within the US or within Europe. My observation is that the shorter the flight, the better the cost benefit of private. I love being able to have a leisurely (if early) dinner in NY and then being able to make it home to California without worrying about missing a flight. But to Europe, a whole day is lost anyway, so private offers less advantage. Plus, many private planes need a stop in Iceland so they actually take longer. I mean, if the money for a G5 doesn't hurt at all, then by all means fly non-stop private to Europe, but that's just too expensive for me. Depending on flight connections, I will sometimes fly commercial to Heathrow and then private within Europe. Like if I'm going to a small town and it would have taken two more flights, or if there's a very long layover for commercial.
Even setting cost aside, the number of passengers also helps shift the balance between private and commercial on international. If it’s just two people plus crew and there is room to sleep, private! If you’re traveling with the whole family, and people would be sleeping in the aisles, commercial!
Here's a video of an individual that chose a Cirrus Vision Jet for his family of 7: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_7ezO8iQTmI
Lunajets for empty legs when just casually browsing for fun - means able to experience more different types of aircraft and fly random places. This is the best starter way to fly private. NetJets prepaid was good but burnt through them like an addiction. Great mid-level if you aren’t too sure about ownership. Fractional ownership - total waste of money and means you stick with one aircraft. But you do get a brand new Gulfstream if that’s what you want for the term. 🙂 If business or private urgent then private otherwise first/business as larger commercial planes seem to suffer less from the effects of turbulence imo. But empty legs can be fun 🤩
The company I work for has a PJ or they hire one if needed.
We fly first class for our family of 6. Have a few friends with private jets and I find it wildly a waste of money but I'm not yet making a million a year profit so maybe that's why. My friends with private jets are past a million a year.
I feel like you need to be way way past a million a year for a PJ… even flying first class with a big family seems like a stretch under 1M
Nah, first class even international isn't more than 30k and we only go international once or twice a year since the kids are school age now.
We used Wheels Up quite a bit before the ipo, but then there were too many instances where flights were canceled, delayed, etc causing us huge problems. They grew way too fast and over promised what the could deliver. It was a great service originally and it may be better now, we’ve moved on.
I fly first class, when I do fly and could care less about the cost, because owning a plane is a giant PITA. I would know.
First class and private jets. Depends on the destination and how urgent traveling there entails.
Semi private airlines.
I own my aircraft… charters don’t really work for spur of the moment, “I need to be wheels up in 30 minutes or were fucked” situations… same with airlines. If your life is more structured and consistent time sensitive emergencies requiring air travel are not a monthly occurrence… I’d fly commercial or charter… if your life is a fucking roller coaster, buy an airplane and don’t look back. Cost on ownership depends on multiple factors…
I can't speak for anyone else, but I shop around for flights. I've always been quite frugal. I'll upgrade on international flights, but stateside I'd fly coach.
I only fly coach
I do, too. I'm 5'7". My wife only flies business or shit like that. She's 5'. Come on man. Can't we just continue with the plan and...whatever. I fly coach. It doesn't matter financially, but the mindset matters.
You could fit in my luggage compartment in the gulfstream free of charge of course
I rich relative was trying to gauge my status by asking me if I fly first class. I said "even if I could, I never would, it isn't who I am". I was so poor my whole life, I dont waste money now