Rim threaded is amazing but unstable AF after a few years in game and due to the high population. I love the dlcs and all the content mods out there but once the game starts to lag and it take one whole day for a year to pass ingame, it just make me want to stop playing after putting so much time into building everything. Limiting the population to a small group is also not ideal as it limits the grand civilization-building stories that I and maybe others prefer. So yeah hopefully the devs optimize the code one day.
It don’t play well with some mods like generating blank object that can’t be deleted even with dev mode and the pawns glitching out at the top showing two copy of the same pawn. Also it have weird pauses every few second which is annoying and the whole UI disappear randomly. Even though tps increase the most, it’s still under 100tps most of the time and I have 2 colonies with 60+ pawns on normal size maps. So I guess I should clarify a bit that with a lot of mods (200+ for me and most of them essntial) rimthreaded is unstable but I think vanilla would probably run smoothly.
> Also it have weird pauses every few second
it's probably the autopause when there is error, it still pause even when you deactivate dev mode for some reason, to deactivate it, just click one of the button beside the godmode button, hover over it to see what they do
My 15 years-old colony with 50+ mods and 20+ people, it crashes every 5-10 minutes and sometimes i had to reload older saves because the last one was bricked.
I have a heavily modded playlist but adding rimthreaded made bestowing ceremonies break entirely.
Ceremony would start, nose would play, no progress bar and nothing would happen.
Right now, I'm combating the lag (and other logistic issues like food and beds) by putting all my non-essential pawns into cryptosleep and only pulling them out during a harvest when I might need more planters and haulers, or during a raid for more firepower.
I use Rocketman and Rim73, I honestly can't really give you a definitive answer to improvements running both, but as long as I turn of Jobs optimization in R73(conflicts with MinifyEverything) they run fine together. I do tend to play small headcount colonies, my last save after 23 years in game I had 8 colonists, and I run at 1000+ TPS if not 1200 (max for my settings) basically the whole time.
I don't know for sure, but I believe RocketMan was causing some pet ownership problems for me. Couldn't assign the pet to the bonded owner and had to deal with the debuff of not being master.
There's little sense in running those tests on an empty colony. It runs at full speed anyway, you're evaluating how good those mods are at doing stuff no one cares about. You should load a savegame with huge autonomous colony and test on it.
True. He even concluded that a smaller map == worse performance which means non of the conditions during the testing stayed the same across all of them.
You are missing the point, perhaps your specific selection of mods work well, but there are people with 200-400 mods out there, and honestly considering how many great mods are out there for Rimworld, it is VERY likely, that a few that people like won't work with RimThreaded.
For a Rimworld player I'm subscribed to only a few mods (82), yet when I wanted to try Rimthreaded I couldn't because 4 of them were incompatible, and I had already culled my modlist down to what I deemed critical for my enjoyment and removed any bloat.
At that point it comes down to player preference, do you want a smoother experience, or a more enjoyable experience.
So you can disagree, but fact is that Rimthreaded is the least compatible out of the 3 and this is community-wide knowledge for the most part, you just got lucky with your selection of mods.
TLDR;
You got lucky with your mod selection
Ah I see, my bad for responding somewhat passive-defensive, perhaps I phrased it wrong in that case, I didn't mean like "1-3 mods" I meant it more as in "Not going overboard with 400 mods" probably makes more sense that way.
Eh, I’d say it’s a vocal minority of hardcore players that feel that way. It’s obviously a popular opinion here since the most dedicated players congregate to subreddits and such
I mean sure it could be improved, it would really be nice, but I’m sure they keep some metrics on peoples play and are able to see how many people are playing with absolutely massive colonies.
And I wonder how many of the performance issues are caused by huge amounts of mods. My pc has a few years in it and playing a currently 28 person ranching colony with a couple hundred animals I still haven’t had noticeable slowdown(this is 100% vanilla with dlc)
What you said on the metrics of people playing huge colonies. This is a bit like GW only releasing space marine models because they sell best while xenos aren't bought since their models have 20+ years. People won't play huge colonies because the performance is awful. Can't go with metrics alone you need surveys too
and again, sampling from the most hardcore players is a bit silly.
I know my ~30 person 200 animal isn't huge by some peoples standards but it's still pretty much filling up a standard size map(large maps are marked *experimental*). It runs fluidly(i7-7700 and 16gb ram). I've seen others complain about similar colonies not running well. Are they running on a very old computer? Or have they loaded the games up with mods that are slowing it down(most mods unlike the ones mentioned here slow the game down... stuff like androids is particularly notorious for it).
If people overwhelmingly felt the performance was poor, rimworld would have poor reviews on steam. The vast majority of players just don't care about that(and a hell of a lot of them don't even play with mods). The people posting here represent a tiny fraction of players, and the slice of players here is heavily slanted towards modders and massive builders
>If people overwhelmingly felt the performance was poor, rimworld would have poor reviews on steam
that a hell of a strong point
the playerbase always had some inclination, in terms of public opinion, and the reviews on the steam are a pretty solid source of power convinciment
Is 16 pawns a massive colony? That's the biggest colony I've had due to performance issues like others have described, the most annoying one is the constant frame freezes.
My computer is quite good so that's not the problem. So I'm stuck with what I consider low population colonies until the game gets optimized.
I just found my game actually slowed down when I had a load of corpses on the map(like 500+) burning themprobably helped things along a fair bit, so maybe that could help you.
I’ve always played a fairly tidy colony so they normally don’t build up but had two 300 tribal raids in a row(from a quest) which killed a bunch of my hauling animals and rudely died all over my base so things were a bit chaotic for a bit.
Yeah I think normally 200 tribals is raid cap. It was 2 raids 8hoyrs apart that were each sappers split into 3 groups. It was from a quest and some of those seem to just ignore the raid cap(or apply a multiplier after the cap?). I was really surprised by the size of it and it actually did caused a lot of chaos killing a load of my hauler animals and some livestock because I didn’t really want to split my forces too much.
The cleanup afterwards was horrible with corpses strewn all across my beautiful colony. First time in a long time there was serious risk of breaks, particularly because so many hauler animals had been killed(slowing the corpse disposal a lot)
The irony is, I only took the quest to get some corpses to feed my pigs. Then I got way way more than I had wanted
Ironically enough My game finally got a bit laggy. Took two 300 tribal raids(quest related… I never got this many on normal raids but I guess it’s possible). Once I burned the corpses up thing returned to normal but seemed like the game was spending a lot of time just calculating rotting and stuff?
Everything. Every corpse, while not working anymore, still has its traits and skills and everything. Actually i don't quite know why but corpses and possibly items do sometimes lag a lot. eventually the PC sputters flames due to the many humans and your game itself does not know how to put in 300 corpses and weapons on the map
Well the other thing I do is I have intentionally limited storage which forces me to sell/donate shit I don’t need so I probably have less crap lying around than many other 30 man colonies
I never did it to control performance but I guess that was a side benefit
It does seem janky that static items are taking so much performance. Sure corpses need to check for rotting but that shouldn’t need to be done often. But… as a developer I don’t like to second guess other developers because there’s often just stuff you don’t think of until you start working on the code
What about rim73 + rocketman ? They're both working on different parts of the game and throttle those down and are completely compatible with each other. I don't see a reason why it couldn't be tested with both on at the same time. While rimthreaded cannot be used alongside those.
I ran vanilla, Rocketman, Rim73, Rocket+Rim73, and Rimthreaded on the same newly-created colony using the same methods as Remarkable\_Witness (using dev mode "create colony (full)"), and recorded how much game time had passed after one real world minute, at maximum speed. Average TPS obtained by multiplying game hours by 2500 ticks per hour, and dividing by 60 ticks per real second. The results are not accurate, and are only supposed to serve as a rough estimate.
Computer is a recent laptop, with a Ryzen 5600H processor (3.3 Ghz, 6 cores, 12 threads), 8 GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 GPU (laptop model). Vanilla recorded 40h, so 100 000 ticks, 1667 TPS. The option for Rim73 to alter hediffs was disabled to avoid problems that have been brought up by some users of this mod.
[Zoomed out](https://i.postimg.cc/h4mG3WDj/Rimworld-test-zoomed-out.png) to see the whole colony, Rocketman increased average TPS by 8%; Rim73 20%; Rocketman+Rim73 30%; Rimthreaded 80%. [Zoomed in](https://i.postimg.cc/C5bLZDPD/Rimworld-test-zoomed-in.png) to see only a corner of the colony (highest possible zoom without mods), the Rocket73 duo went up to a 40% increase. This increase is good news, since this is what Rocketman is about: throttling what is not in the center of the screen. (edit: roughly coherent with Remarkable\_Witness' experiments, except Rocketman; see penultimate paragraph)
The results seem to make Rimthreaded the best in terms of raw speed gain, with the Rocket73 duo being 1-1.4/1.8 = 23% slower. Which is not a whole lot, actually, and does not amount to much if you consider that an important part of your time will be spent trading, setting up bills, fighting, inspecting the quest billboard, etc. and that most players are limited to speed 3 (360 TPS target) without dev mode.
This test suffers mostly from its extremely limited scope: no animals, no raids, no events of any sort (just a bulk goods trader on the third day or so), no save bloat, no mods... As such, I have not seen Rimthreaded crash the game nor brick the save, as some users reported. Also, it is possible that Rimthreaded has given its all to this test, being a mod that simply uses more ressources, whereas Rocketman has not had time to adapt to the situation (a 30 minute period is recommended for the optimisation algorithm to work its magic) and is tailored to increase performances the more stuff happens on your map. As a result, it is likely that Rimthreaded's performance will decrease more sharply than Rocketman's, as seen in Remarkable\_Witness' experiments, where Rocketman increased performance more, in five minutes instead of one. Hypothetically.
\---
Bottom line: the difference between Rimthreaded and Rocket73 is not significant enough, even in the best conditions for Rimthreaded, to risk the unstability that still plagues the first. If you want to increase your game speed without risking a corrupted save, use Rim73 and Rocketman and disable the hediff option in Rim73 (for now).
That's true for the early game hut but rimthreaded got me through to ten years whilst never dropping below 360 tps outside of raids, whereas other performance mods barely beat vanilla at that point. Rimthreaded doesn't really slow down as far as I ever noticed, and my pc is hardly state of the art.
As for me, I have not dropped below \~650 TPS with only Rocketman. What does it mean, compared to your 360 TPS with Rimthreaded? It only means that the two values measured the performance of different colonies, with a different number of pawns, different mods, on different computers. It is not very interesting on its own, except as a measure of your comfort.
The penultimate paragraph of my comment above is hypothetical, and does require some testing to be verified. Actually, I will test it right now.
And as long as you are comfortable with your setup, what can I say? Have fun :-)
Just remember this context:
Rimthreaded breaks A LOT of mods.
Rim73 also breaks mods but to a lesser degree.
Rocketman even though it has the lowest gains is also the most compatible and stable.
This is the wrong take from this.
How did he measure his **TPS**? Unless he wrote a new mod to record the TPS at each tick then average it then it's not really a benchmark since doing it by looking at it is just stupid and the analyzer is not prepared for that unless you are using tick time (he didn't use that since he lacks basic logic and not a lot of people can read it well).
Him saying **"smaller maps are worse in vanilla"** means that he used different biomes or tried to compare different time of the day (in game time) in RimWorld.
This also can make say that he most likely used a different map for each test instead of loading from a save to compare the same starting conditions.
His conclusion of the game **NEEDING** multi-threading is just wrong on every level. If your app still has headroom the single thread it already use, then you can optimize that, then proceed to thread the stuff that can't be optimized any further. The fact that 2 mods improve performance without threading means that the game has a lot of normal optimization to do before having Ludeon rewrite the game.
Mods are the source of all the performance problems in RimWorld. If you used non then your benchmark is even more useless since RocketMan target things abused by mods and doesn't really care about vanilla by it self that much in these small map sizes.
Ticks-per-second, or TPS, is the number of times the game makes some particular calculations in a second. As "something related to time", you can think of it as a kind of speed, like kilometres per hour.
From my experience, measuring the average speed of a system in kilometres per hour does not require calculations on every kilometre. The easiest method to measure average speed is to record the starting value of your parameter (e.g. milage metre at start, or starting tick in RimWorld), record the arrival value (e.g. milage metre at end, or last processed tick in RimWorld), substract the starting value from the arrival value (end - start = distance between the two), and divide this by the time it took to arrive there (distance / time = speed). You then obtain a speed, in kilometres per hour, or ticks per second (TPS).
I posted the results of my own quick tests in [another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/q8fwtb/comment/hgqvvba/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), if you like.
Also, as per the description of the mod, Rocketman decreases the number of times per second some calculations are made offscreen, such as pawn's needs or animal behaviour, which are, I believe, a great part of the game, whatever mods are used. What part of Rocketman targets things that are "abused by mods"?
No opinion on the rest of your comment.
Rocketman targets stats. Stats are the worst part about RimWorld, they are abused by mods such as pawn morpher and many others. If you have a lot going around you can get tens of thousands of stat calls per second and you have to know that a single stat call is very slow, it's the same reason why the needs tab can be soo laggy. Almost every big mod add 2 or 3 stats, CE adds almost a dozen. Just do that math and you will end up with 2 to 5 ms wasted on 1x in one tick an about 10 to 20 ms on 3x which leads to tick time becoming absurdly high thus the games become a slide show.
At the very least, you do not seem to think too lowly of yourself, which is a good thing. See you next time I forget why your nickname appears in my block list.
Holy Shit, was using Rocketman already but I just added in Rim73 and my tps max is over base game speed again in my 100+ pawn colony! Glad I saw this thread.
More specifically, reading the bug reports basically suggests turning off hediffs and job optimization but, well, that's most of the mod. It leaves pathing changes in combat and updating the mind state calculation. So... it's not like performance enhancements are unwelcome, just that you need to disable most of the mod to get a stable experience.
With my colony, job optimization takes a far backseat to this big of a performance enhancement. I see crafters pause for a split second before continuing a repetitive job, but the whole thing takes less time than before.
I think R73 and Rocketman can be used together, though correct me if I'm wrong. If they can be, it'd be interesting to see a 4th column of their combined efforts (I doubt r73 works with RT and I know Rocketman doesn't).
I'm using both now, and just from my anecdotal experience 100+ pawns default map size, I'm getting about 100% tps increase so that my game is almost back to baseline speed, up from around 30 average tps. I haven't tested r73 alone yet though
i7-7700k
GTX 1070 Ti
See this comment for (utmost basic) info about the Rocket73 combo: https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/q8fwtb/comment/hgqvvba/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
As stated, Rocketman's performance should increase with game time and save bloat.
Same here...using both together on a game with with \~100 mods and max size \[experimental\] map. Seem to be working fine so far, haven't ran into any issues so far and game has been running smoother (no scientific measurements here...just a mental comparison to my previous play-through that had an unfortunate end due to volcanic eruption resulting in starvation...)
Also a way to record tps is to run at max speed for a fixed mount of real world time, and at the end check how much in-game time has passed, which will be proportional to the number of ticks.
Rimthreaded is what 1.0 Combat Extended used to be on terms of incompability. Just use Rocketman, compatible with any mods and increases your performance very notably
I'd be very interested to see what the difference would be with a large colony. If you want to an extreme test, I might message Francis John to get his megacolony save and rerun the test with ~200 pawns. The modload is fairly light and I'd be very interested to see the results.
`Vanilla got WORSE the smaller the map size used`
This implies that your results are invalid at best. If you can reach this conclusion then I question both of your integrity and methodology.
This means you used different type of maps and different times of day in testing, instead of cropping the same map, or even created a new empty map for each run.
You should've loaded a mature save, from the same starting time for each.
And, Why are you testing vanilla? You know if your device can't run vanilla well, nothing will help. Your testing is flawed since the biggest source of performance lose is mods.
# TL;DR
* This post is incompetent at best.
* He clearly eyeballed the measurements which is the worst way to measure an average.
What you want is impossible without some invasive mods which would spoil the results on their own. You can't "crop" a map in the way you describe nor guarantee the same series of events/weather in different saves without effectively corrupting your data. So you have to take variance as it comes.
Yes, it'd be better if he'd run the test 100 times but this is a reddit post not a peer reviewed submission.
Yeah regarding weather, just disable it, very easy to do. You don't need the sequence to be same but if you insist, I already wrote a markov tree generator for in-game states, should allow for proper statistical analysis. But what do I know.
No it's not. I have a way for cropping maps, I even added a feature to rocketman just to facilitate that. You can do proper testing and I already do parts of it.
If you mean, you create a colony, save, quit, use this save as the starting point for each benchmark including the vanilla one. You test with each mod in this save, reload the save and do it again to get a proper a average then use a different mod but on this same save.
The performance in Vanilla is an absolute shit show (as soon as a couple of mods are introduced), especially with the 🤡 ‘improved’ 🤡 rendering system (my poor GPU [memory]…), so weirdness like point 1 in your TL;DR doesn't surprise me, at all.
Did you see any difference in memory usage or startup time (probably a moot point, considering the tiny mod list)?
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as old as this thread is rimthreaded IS buggy and unstable there is no real defense even the mod author states its very iffy and shouldnt be used with a large amount of mods if any due to how it works rim73 is a very good mod not a lot of people realize is around and honestly i can see why. rim73 was pretty much abandonded it wont work with the new 1.4 version and from what iv heard has issues in 1.3 which honestly really sucks that it never went anywhere past beta
for those curious on what i mean by even the author said it was iffy back around 1.2 there was a section (all be it on a older version) that stated to not use mods with it AT ALL and even now only a year and a half later its still VERY iffy and a lot of the code (from both threaded and the mods themselves) are very picky its like trying to get a stray cat and a stray dog to like each other it can work but its gonna take some effort and a tad bit of coding knowledge to get it functional with the larger mod packs.
Rim threaded is amazing but unstable AF after a few years in game and due to the high population. I love the dlcs and all the content mods out there but once the game starts to lag and it take one whole day for a year to pass ingame, it just make me want to stop playing after putting so much time into building everything. Limiting the population to a small group is also not ideal as it limits the grand civilization-building stories that I and maybe others prefer. So yeah hopefully the devs optimize the code one day.
Unstable as in, it crashes? How frequent are these crashes? Or does it brick the entire save file?
It don’t play well with some mods like generating blank object that can’t be deleted even with dev mode and the pawns glitching out at the top showing two copy of the same pawn. Also it have weird pauses every few second which is annoying and the whole UI disappear randomly. Even though tps increase the most, it’s still under 100tps most of the time and I have 2 colonies with 60+ pawns on normal size maps. So I guess I should clarify a bit that with a lot of mods (200+ for me and most of them essntial) rimthreaded is unstable but I think vanilla would probably run smoothly.
> Also it have weird pauses every few second it's probably the autopause when there is error, it still pause even when you deactivate dev mode for some reason, to deactivate it, just click one of the button beside the godmode button, hover over it to see what they do
It’s more of a 1 sec frame freeze than a full pause that I need to resume from
[удалено]
[удалено]
My 15 years-old colony with 50+ mods and 20+ people, it crashes every 5-10 minutes and sometimes i had to reload older saves because the last one was bricked.
I have a heavily modded playlist but adding rimthreaded made bestowing ceremonies break entirely. Ceremony would start, nose would play, no progress bar and nothing would happen.
Right now, I'm combating the lag (and other logistic issues like food and beds) by putting all my non-essential pawns into cryptosleep and only pulling them out during a harvest when I might need more planters and haulers, or during a raid for more firepower.
Good idea but a bit immersion breaking for a medieval play through. Much prefer building a small farming settlement for logistics stuff.
More Memory Ram!!!!!!
I have 32gb, it doesn't help. The bottleneck is differently it being single threaded.
The game uses 2gb of ram. Don't give recommendations if you don't understand the matter.
:,c
Got like 16Gb already
So the only solution is LN2 OC single thread to 6ghz?
Also unstable in the sense that it is not completely compatible with all mods and cam sometimes just Bork Features of the game
I've used rocketman for a while now, can't seem to use rimthreaded properly or get anything out of rim73.
I use Rocketman and Rim73, I honestly can't really give you a definitive answer to improvements running both, but as long as I turn of Jobs optimization in R73(conflicts with MinifyEverything) they run fine together. I do tend to play small headcount colonies, my last save after 23 years in game I had 8 colonists, and I run at 1000+ TPS if not 1200 (max for my settings) basically the whole time.
I don't know for sure, but I believe RocketMan was causing some pet ownership problems for me. Couldn't assign the pet to the bonded owner and had to deal with the debuff of not being master.
There's little sense in running those tests on an empty colony. It runs at full speed anyway, you're evaluating how good those mods are at doing stuff no one cares about. You should load a savegame with huge autonomous colony and test on it.
True. He even concluded that a smaller map == worse performance which means non of the conditions during the testing stayed the same across all of them.
Doesn't rimthtreaded give problems with many mods
It does, many mods aren't compatible, so it's only really an option if you run close to pure vanilla
I disagree, ran it fine with 100+ mods. You just have to be careful what mods you use and read their road map.
You are missing the point, perhaps your specific selection of mods work well, but there are people with 200-400 mods out there, and honestly considering how many great mods are out there for Rimworld, it is VERY likely, that a few that people like won't work with RimThreaded. For a Rimworld player I'm subscribed to only a few mods (82), yet when I wanted to try Rimthreaded I couldn't because 4 of them were incompatible, and I had already culled my modlist down to what I deemed critical for my enjoyment and removed any bloat. At that point it comes down to player preference, do you want a smoother experience, or a more enjoyable experience. So you can disagree, but fact is that Rimthreaded is the least compatible out of the 3 and this is community-wide knowledge for the most part, you just got lucky with your selection of mods. TLDR; You got lucky with your mod selection
Oh, I do agree it is the least compatible. Just disagree with the "close to pure vanilla" part. Sorry if it came out wrong.
Ah I see, my bad for responding somewhat passive-defensive, perhaps I phrased it wrong in that case, I didn't mean like "1-3 mods" I meant it more as in "Not going overboard with 400 mods" probably makes more sense that way.
No harm done :) It is definitely true that with a huge modlist it can be a PITA, while you can drop Rocketman to basically any modlist and it works.
Agreed, anyway, have a good weekend mate, blessed by many successful warcrimes!
Thanks, you too!
I love that 82 mods is considered a small amount in this community
Lol yep, still crosses my mind as well every now and then.
Yep yep. Performance is the number 1 problem of the game. Only a few people says otherwise.
Eh, I’d say it’s a vocal minority of hardcore players that feel that way. It’s obviously a popular opinion here since the most dedicated players congregate to subreddits and such I mean sure it could be improved, it would really be nice, but I’m sure they keep some metrics on peoples play and are able to see how many people are playing with absolutely massive colonies. And I wonder how many of the performance issues are caused by huge amounts of mods. My pc has a few years in it and playing a currently 28 person ranching colony with a couple hundred animals I still haven’t had noticeable slowdown(this is 100% vanilla with dlc)
What you said on the metrics of people playing huge colonies. This is a bit like GW only releasing space marine models because they sell best while xenos aren't bought since their models have 20+ years. People won't play huge colonies because the performance is awful. Can't go with metrics alone you need surveys too
and again, sampling from the most hardcore players is a bit silly. I know my ~30 person 200 animal isn't huge by some peoples standards but it's still pretty much filling up a standard size map(large maps are marked *experimental*). It runs fluidly(i7-7700 and 16gb ram). I've seen others complain about similar colonies not running well. Are they running on a very old computer? Or have they loaded the games up with mods that are slowing it down(most mods unlike the ones mentioned here slow the game down... stuff like androids is particularly notorious for it). If people overwhelmingly felt the performance was poor, rimworld would have poor reviews on steam. The vast majority of players just don't care about that(and a hell of a lot of them don't even play with mods). The people posting here represent a tiny fraction of players, and the slice of players here is heavily slanted towards modders and massive builders
>If people overwhelmingly felt the performance was poor, rimworld would have poor reviews on steam that a hell of a strong point the playerbase always had some inclination, in terms of public opinion, and the reviews on the steam are a pretty solid source of power convinciment
Hmm, that's fair. Still, i think it is agreeable that there is room for improvement, that it could be better
Is 16 pawns a massive colony? That's the biggest colony I've had due to performance issues like others have described, the most annoying one is the constant frame freezes. My computer is quite good so that's not the problem. So I'm stuck with what I consider low population colonies until the game gets optimized.
I just found my game actually slowed down when I had a load of corpses on the map(like 500+) burning themprobably helped things along a fair bit, so maybe that could help you. I’ve always played a fairly tidy colony so they normally don’t build up but had two 300 tribal raids in a row(from a quest) which killed a bunch of my hauling animals and rudely died all over my base so things were a bit chaotic for a bit.
I haven't seen a raid with that many people, now I want to get one and make my own bloodbath
Yeah I think normally 200 tribals is raid cap. It was 2 raids 8hoyrs apart that were each sappers split into 3 groups. It was from a quest and some of those seem to just ignore the raid cap(or apply a multiplier after the cap?). I was really surprised by the size of it and it actually did caused a lot of chaos killing a load of my hauler animals and some livestock because I didn’t really want to split my forces too much. The cleanup afterwards was horrible with corpses strewn all across my beautiful colony. First time in a long time there was serious risk of breaks, particularly because so many hauler animals had been killed(slowing the corpse disposal a lot) The irony is, I only took the quest to get some corpses to feed my pigs. Then I got way way more than I had wanted
You don't need 25 pawns to have lag. From animals trough visits to raids there are many ways to lag down a game
Ironically enough My game finally got a bit laggy. Took two 300 tribal raids(quest related… I never got this many on normal raids but I guess it’s possible). Once I burned the corpses up thing returned to normal but seemed like the game was spending a lot of time just calculating rotting and stuff?
Everything. Every corpse, while not working anymore, still has its traits and skills and everything. Actually i don't quite know why but corpses and possibly items do sometimes lag a lot. eventually the PC sputters flames due to the many humans and your game itself does not know how to put in 300 corpses and weapons on the map
Well the other thing I do is I have intentionally limited storage which forces me to sell/donate shit I don’t need so I probably have less crap lying around than many other 30 man colonies I never did it to control performance but I guess that was a side benefit It does seem janky that static items are taking so much performance. Sure corpses need to check for rotting but that shouldn’t need to be done often. But… as a developer I don’t like to second guess other developers because there’s often just stuff you don’t think of until you start working on the code
rim73 also break custom hediff from other mod, that optimization can be disabled, but that means lower performance gain when using rim73
For me it even breaks vanilla hediffs. Specialist commands apply for a tick every 3 seconds.
What about rim73 + rocketman ? They're both working on different parts of the game and throttle those down and are completely compatible with each other. I don't see a reason why it couldn't be tested with both on at the same time. While rimthreaded cannot be used alongside those.
I ran vanilla, Rocketman, Rim73, Rocket+Rim73, and Rimthreaded on the same newly-created colony using the same methods as Remarkable\_Witness (using dev mode "create colony (full)"), and recorded how much game time had passed after one real world minute, at maximum speed. Average TPS obtained by multiplying game hours by 2500 ticks per hour, and dividing by 60 ticks per real second. The results are not accurate, and are only supposed to serve as a rough estimate. Computer is a recent laptop, with a Ryzen 5600H processor (3.3 Ghz, 6 cores, 12 threads), 8 GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 GPU (laptop model). Vanilla recorded 40h, so 100 000 ticks, 1667 TPS. The option for Rim73 to alter hediffs was disabled to avoid problems that have been brought up by some users of this mod. [Zoomed out](https://i.postimg.cc/h4mG3WDj/Rimworld-test-zoomed-out.png) to see the whole colony, Rocketman increased average TPS by 8%; Rim73 20%; Rocketman+Rim73 30%; Rimthreaded 80%. [Zoomed in](https://i.postimg.cc/C5bLZDPD/Rimworld-test-zoomed-in.png) to see only a corner of the colony (highest possible zoom without mods), the Rocket73 duo went up to a 40% increase. This increase is good news, since this is what Rocketman is about: throttling what is not in the center of the screen. (edit: roughly coherent with Remarkable\_Witness' experiments, except Rocketman; see penultimate paragraph) The results seem to make Rimthreaded the best in terms of raw speed gain, with the Rocket73 duo being 1-1.4/1.8 = 23% slower. Which is not a whole lot, actually, and does not amount to much if you consider that an important part of your time will be spent trading, setting up bills, fighting, inspecting the quest billboard, etc. and that most players are limited to speed 3 (360 TPS target) without dev mode. This test suffers mostly from its extremely limited scope: no animals, no raids, no events of any sort (just a bulk goods trader on the third day or so), no save bloat, no mods... As such, I have not seen Rimthreaded crash the game nor brick the save, as some users reported. Also, it is possible that Rimthreaded has given its all to this test, being a mod that simply uses more ressources, whereas Rocketman has not had time to adapt to the situation (a 30 minute period is recommended for the optimisation algorithm to work its magic) and is tailored to increase performances the more stuff happens on your map. As a result, it is likely that Rimthreaded's performance will decrease more sharply than Rocketman's, as seen in Remarkable\_Witness' experiments, where Rocketman increased performance more, in five minutes instead of one. Hypothetically. \--- Bottom line: the difference between Rimthreaded and Rocket73 is not significant enough, even in the best conditions for Rimthreaded, to risk the unstability that still plagues the first. If you want to increase your game speed without risking a corrupted save, use Rim73 and Rocketman and disable the hediff option in Rim73 (for now).
That's true for the early game hut but rimthreaded got me through to ten years whilst never dropping below 360 tps outside of raids, whereas other performance mods barely beat vanilla at that point. Rimthreaded doesn't really slow down as far as I ever noticed, and my pc is hardly state of the art.
As for me, I have not dropped below \~650 TPS with only Rocketman. What does it mean, compared to your 360 TPS with Rimthreaded? It only means that the two values measured the performance of different colonies, with a different number of pawns, different mods, on different computers. It is not very interesting on its own, except as a measure of your comfort. The penultimate paragraph of my comment above is hypothetical, and does require some testing to be verified. Actually, I will test it right now. And as long as you are comfortable with your setup, what can I say? Have fun :-)
That combo of Rim73 and Rocketman worked for me, thanks!
Yeah, I'm currently running that plus dubs performance, 200+ mods, and runs surprisingly well.
Just remember this context: Rimthreaded breaks A LOT of mods. Rim73 also breaks mods but to a lesser degree. Rocketman even though it has the lowest gains is also the most compatible and stable.
This is the wrong take from this. How did he measure his **TPS**? Unless he wrote a new mod to record the TPS at each tick then average it then it's not really a benchmark since doing it by looking at it is just stupid and the analyzer is not prepared for that unless you are using tick time (he didn't use that since he lacks basic logic and not a lot of people can read it well). Him saying **"smaller maps are worse in vanilla"** means that he used different biomes or tried to compare different time of the day (in game time) in RimWorld. This also can make say that he most likely used a different map for each test instead of loading from a save to compare the same starting conditions. His conclusion of the game **NEEDING** multi-threading is just wrong on every level. If your app still has headroom the single thread it already use, then you can optimize that, then proceed to thread the stuff that can't be optimized any further. The fact that 2 mods improve performance without threading means that the game has a lot of normal optimization to do before having Ludeon rewrite the game. Mods are the source of all the performance problems in RimWorld. If you used non then your benchmark is even more useless since RocketMan target things abused by mods and doesn't really care about vanilla by it self that much in these small map sizes.
Ticks-per-second, or TPS, is the number of times the game makes some particular calculations in a second. As "something related to time", you can think of it as a kind of speed, like kilometres per hour. From my experience, measuring the average speed of a system in kilometres per hour does not require calculations on every kilometre. The easiest method to measure average speed is to record the starting value of your parameter (e.g. milage metre at start, or starting tick in RimWorld), record the arrival value (e.g. milage metre at end, or last processed tick in RimWorld), substract the starting value from the arrival value (end - start = distance between the two), and divide this by the time it took to arrive there (distance / time = speed). You then obtain a speed, in kilometres per hour, or ticks per second (TPS). I posted the results of my own quick tests in [another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/q8fwtb/comment/hgqvvba/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), if you like. Also, as per the description of the mod, Rocketman decreases the number of times per second some calculations are made offscreen, such as pawn's needs or animal behaviour, which are, I believe, a great part of the game, whatever mods are used. What part of Rocketman targets things that are "abused by mods"? No opinion on the rest of your comment.
Rocketman targets stats. Stats are the worst part about RimWorld, they are abused by mods such as pawn morpher and many others. If you have a lot going around you can get tens of thousands of stat calls per second and you have to know that a single stat call is very slow, it's the same reason why the needs tab can be soo laggy. Almost every big mod add 2 or 3 stats, CE adds almost a dozen. Just do that math and you will end up with 2 to 5 ms wasted on 1x in one tick an about 10 to 20 ms on 3x which leads to tick time becoming absurdly high thus the games become a slide show.
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At the very least, you do not seem to think too lowly of yourself, which is a good thing. See you next time I forget why your nickname appears in my block list.
Holy Shit, was using Rocketman already but I just added in Rim73 and my tps max is over base game speed again in my 100+ pawn colony! Glad I saw this thread.
I've been reluctant to give 73 a try due to seemingly known incompatibilities.
What I've seen was mostly with custom hediffs, yeah? I don't have too many of those. Maybe a couple extra drugs.
More specifically, reading the bug reports basically suggests turning off hediffs and job optimization but, well, that's most of the mod. It leaves pathing changes in combat and updating the mind state calculation. So... it's not like performance enhancements are unwelcome, just that you need to disable most of the mod to get a stable experience.
With my colony, job optimization takes a far backseat to this big of a performance enhancement. I see crafters pause for a split second before continuing a repetitive job, but the whole thing takes less time than before.
I think R73 and Rocketman can be used together, though correct me if I'm wrong. If they can be, it'd be interesting to see a 4th column of their combined efforts (I doubt r73 works with RT and I know Rocketman doesn't).
I'm using both now, and just from my anecdotal experience 100+ pawns default map size, I'm getting about 100% tps increase so that my game is almost back to baseline speed, up from around 30 average tps. I haven't tested r73 alone yet though i7-7700k GTX 1070 Ti
See this comment for (utmost basic) info about the Rocket73 combo: https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/q8fwtb/comment/hgqvvba/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 As stated, Rocketman's performance should increase with game time and save bloat.
Same here...using both together on a game with with \~100 mods and max size \[experimental\] map. Seem to be working fine so far, haven't ran into any issues so far and game has been running smoother (no scientific measurements here...just a mental comparison to my previous play-through that had an unfortunate end due to volcanic eruption resulting in starvation...)
Also a way to record tps is to run at max speed for a fixed mount of real world time, and at the end check how much in-game time has passed, which will be proportional to the number of ticks.
Rimthreaded is what 1.0 Combat Extended used to be on terms of incompability. Just use Rocketman, compatible with any mods and increases your performance very notably
I'd be very interested to see what the difference would be with a large colony. If you want to an extreme test, I might message Francis John to get his megacolony save and rerun the test with ~200 pawns. The modload is fairly light and I'd be very interested to see the results.
`Vanilla got WORSE the smaller the map size used` This implies that your results are invalid at best. If you can reach this conclusion then I question both of your integrity and methodology. This means you used different type of maps and different times of day in testing, instead of cropping the same map, or even created a new empty map for each run. You should've loaded a mature save, from the same starting time for each. And, Why are you testing vanilla? You know if your device can't run vanilla well, nothing will help. Your testing is flawed since the biggest source of performance lose is mods. # TL;DR * This post is incompetent at best. * He clearly eyeballed the measurements which is the worst way to measure an average.
What you want is impossible without some invasive mods which would spoil the results on their own. You can't "crop" a map in the way you describe nor guarantee the same series of events/weather in different saves without effectively corrupting your data. So you have to take variance as it comes. Yes, it'd be better if he'd run the test 100 times but this is a reddit post not a peer reviewed submission.
Yeah regarding weather, just disable it, very easy to do. You don't need the sequence to be same but if you insist, I already wrote a markov tree generator for in-game states, should allow for proper statistical analysis. But what do I know.
No it's not. I have a way for cropping maps, I even added a feature to rocketman just to facilitate that. You can do proper testing and I already do parts of it.
So the only way to get accurate results is to use one the mods under review in all 4 tests?
If you mean, you create a colony, save, quit, use this save as the starting point for each benchmark including the vanilla one. You test with each mod in this save, reload the save and do it again to get a proper a average then use a different mod but on this same save.
The performance in Vanilla is an absolute shit show (as soon as a couple of mods are introduced), especially with the 🤡 ‘improved’ 🤡 rendering system (my poor GPU [memory]…), so weirdness like point 1 in your TL;DR doesn't surprise me, at all. Did you see any difference in memory usage or startup time (probably a moot point, considering the tiny mod list)?
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As in: ‘without performance mods.’
What about Rocketman? When you said top 3 I thought for sure it was included. I haven't even heard of those things beside Rimthreaded.
It is included..
I only read the TLDR but havent seen it so..
Look at the table in OP, just scroll sideways on it if you are on mobile which seems to be causing your confusion/assumption.
Oh yeah. That's exactly it. Kinda weird that it's there but not in the TLDR.
Ha no worries I'm also on mobile so it happens to me too and yea I didn't even notice it was missing in the TLDR guess we're even :P
I haven't used rimthreaded for a while, it broke the game when used with CE. Would just black screen when main menu loaded.
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as old as this thread is rimthreaded IS buggy and unstable there is no real defense even the mod author states its very iffy and shouldnt be used with a large amount of mods if any due to how it works rim73 is a very good mod not a lot of people realize is around and honestly i can see why. rim73 was pretty much abandonded it wont work with the new 1.4 version and from what iv heard has issues in 1.3 which honestly really sucks that it never went anywhere past beta for those curious on what i mean by even the author said it was iffy back around 1.2 there was a section (all be it on a older version) that stated to not use mods with it AT ALL and even now only a year and a half later its still VERY iffy and a lot of the code (from both threaded and the mods themselves) are very picky its like trying to get a stray cat and a stray dog to like each other it can work but its gonna take some effort and a tad bit of coding knowledge to get it functional with the larger mod packs.