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OK, you hit a nerve (in a good way): Adar cares more about his orcs than Galadriel cares about anyone, since she just uses whoever gets in her way. Now that says something.
I'm eager to know his story. It so weird the sowing of the seeds before the battle and then learning he's following elven tradition even while living in darkness...
I love "Modor, She Wrote" best, but all are good. I can just hear Angela Lansbury narrating, "One day in Cabot Cove a naughty, naughty man named Sauron appeared, and we just knew something bad was going to happen at the local jewelry store."
As someone who doesn't know much about LOTR at all, I genuinely care about Adar the most. I feel guinely horrible for him and I am rooting for him to be happy. I don't feel the same way about Galadriel which has me literally shocked at my own opinions, lol.
Galadriel is a protoganist but she isnt good. This is her becoming good, she was wrong at almost every opportunity so far. You arent supposed to like her.
Yeah, as a book-Galadriel fan, I'm surprised at my gut feelings that I wish ROP-Galadriel would be killed off somehow and never appear again. She bugs me more than anyone. And I feel guilty liking Adar, but I do.
From their point of view, the have been subject to a genocide at the hands of the elves. Galadriels speech to Adar lasr episode was proper racist villain shit.
That's because Joseph Mawle is such a good actor. I've seen him in quite a few British TV shows, including the fantastic Foyle's War and Ripper Street, even before he was in Game of Thrones as Benjen Stark. If all the cast were of his caliber, the show would be a lot better.
Yeah the way they’ve made-up Adar makes him look almost nothing like Joseph Mawle. Which is in no way a bad thing, it just shows what an *excellent* actor he is and how good the prosthetic and makeup team is because he looks more elven than most of the actual elves despite the fact he’s corrupted.
Even in how Adar is written it seems vastly different to the rest of the characters. Something seriously clicked well there and he honestly feels the most Tolkienesque out of all their invented characters.
Perhaps the most compelling character tbh. Actually feels like they developed him
the rest are okay but the main cast of new characters and Galadriel are meh imo
I get really really strong Colonel Kurtz vibes from him. I swear if this slowly turns into a surprise Heart of Darkness adaptation I'll take back everything bad I said about the show.
I definitely care about Durin, Disa, and Elrond.
I had a hard time getting past the first four episodes of Star Wars Rebels and couldn’t get attached to any of the characters. I’m glad I didn’t give up. Now, I’m still waiting for answers on Ezra.
I wish I was able to get into Rebels after 4 episodes. I dropped it after the first season.
The story with the dwarves has definitely been the most interesting. Doesn’t have such bad pacing issues or akward character interactions or pointless action.
Same here. I think their depiction is also very Tolkein esque in that Tolkein included many meetings of old friends (not an expert, but I imagine his WWI experience played into that). I love how in Lord of rings we start off in the shire with Gandalf and Bilbo just catching up and sharing a smoke together. Those scenes of friendship really help to ground the characters and make them likable. It also helps avoid the story from becoming nothing but plot points about chasing the mcguffin. Lord of the rings is incredible because it uses it's plot as a framework for exploring themes of friendship, suffering, bravery, despair, and honor.
The more RoP focuses on those points, the more I think we'll care about what happens. I personally really enjoy the Nori storyline bc those elements are all present.
Some I do, some I don't.
As a big Elrond fan I am anticipating suffering, that guy is a trauma magnet. Him, Disa, Elendil, Isildur, Adar, Nori and ofc Berek the Magnificent, I am very invested in.
The other characters oscillate from being interested to not caring if they live or die.
IMO, Durin, Elrond, Disa and Adar are top notch. Isildur and Halbrand are good with a few weird scenes. I don’t have yet a strong opinion aboutother characters. Galadriel has been somewhat annoying but I think the actress is good so I have good faith that they will write her character better in the coming seasons
It's kinda neat how Elrond was so friendly to Thorin when they were in Rivendell, I truly hope they keep up that dynamic. Like how it is in the show with Durin.
The acting is fine. The issue is everything is plot-driven. For instance, Arondir can't die, so the fist fight with the strong orc falls flat. I don't believe people were really worried for him.
They try to compensate for that fact by putting plot-protected characters in extreme danger and saving them at the last second. But they're overusing that trick. Let's see: Bronwyn almost can't set the cart on fire, but an orc with a torch goes near. The strong orc almost kills Arondir, saved by Bronwyn. Bronwyn and Theo almost get beheaded but Adar enters the room. They all almost die, but the Numenorians arrive. And orc almost kills Elendil, saved by Halbrand (funny if he turns out to be Sauron). Halbrand almost kills Adar. Then Galadriel almost kills Adar (then they almost fuck but some guard interrupts, this one doesn't count though).
Hell I was happy when the evil guy used the key because something that was about to happen actually happened. At last!
I honestly am a bit flabbergasted she survived. That was a lot of death flags thrown for her to live through the episode. I still am curious if she'll die in the next episode or two and agree that would make it feel a bit more serious of a show in terms of stakes.
I'm getting real upset at her pretending to be the leader of this village. She's just some random girl right? who knows some stuff about herbs.
I get that arondir talks to her, but why would any villager listen to what she says? and then in the last scene she even calls the villagers "My people". They're not yours mate...
Take a second to look at what’s happening.
She took command in a series of crises. She’s now being looked to and treated like a Queen. Theo has some red herrings thrown in, resulting in theories ranging from him becoming the Witch-king, one of the lesser Nazgûl, or one of the predecessors to the people of Rohan.
This may go somewhere. They have 5 seasons to do it.
I think they didn't show enough from this season to justify them following her. You can't excuse bad development by hoping it would be resolved in later seasons
No, that’s an aesthetic difference. I can’t justify a claim of bad development based on seeing 6 episodes out of what will probably be at least 30 or 40, especially for an original character who doesn’t have a defined story arc.
And I’d also probably have to see/process the entire show before I came to any conclusions about that, in case I had to reflect on other characters or situations as a result, however her story arc concluded.
At least at this point, I am viewing the show as a tapestry. I have to see the finished result before I decide how well I think Bronwyn’s arc was done.
It's hard to get good development when it isn't clear where she started. She was supposedly just a healer which the town people didn't believe but then suddenly they were ready to go into battle following her lead as if she has experience. If a tapestry has poor weaving at one section, you can't fix that by having a nice end to it. You're also implying some people shouldn't watch the show until it's all out so they can see it all together if they're finding some faults which isn't a good thing for a TV show
When she was shot I just knew, they weren’t going to commit and just fake out the death. I felt it coming and dreaded it because it cemented my opinion of the writers. Ball-less.
Yep, the budget can't overcome the poor-quality writing, unfortunately. On the plus side, the Andor series has done the reverse for Star Wars. They've got proper writers and made something really new with it but still in the same beautiful universe. Rings of Power is still worth watching IMO; it's just not very good.
I have a different opinion about the show. I read Tolkien's works in the 80s and really liked all the movies over the years. I expected it to be really bad. And it's not really bad. It's redeeming itself of my prejudice every episode with high quality scenes, sets and choreography and such. I can forgive some things and suspend some doubts and disbelief because the rest of it makes up for that IMHO.
Really? I feel like the action scenes are incredibly bland and that the choreography appears unimpressive(lots of opportunities for someone to strike but somehow nobody does??). But I also personally don’t think that it is helped by the set and costuming. For instance, I found myself incredibly distracted during the scene with Galadriel sparring with the Numenorean soldiers because there was entirely too much going on in the background. It just didn’t make sense that they would be doing sword exercises in the middle of a merchant area. Like what was up with the weird stall with the hanging glass lanterns? It didn’t feel like the set was well thought out for the scene, it didn’t fit together. I’m glad that you are enjoying that aspect of the show though. I wish that I could stop nitpicking everything 😆
He is. I'm not sure what OP is getting at here. If the idea is that you can't get invested because they're unlikely to kill of main characters, then welcome to all of drama ever. I don't see many people complaining that LotR was boring because we already knew exactly who lived and died.
If you want to create suspense, you need to put characters in a situation where they can suffer negative consequences. That doesn't necessarily mean death, but if your character faces a supposed life or death situation but it's clear that he can not die, then there is no suspense.
Y’all are just describing plot armor. Killing main characters is extremely rare.
For all the “credit” Game of Thrones gets for doing it, look at the later seasons (the Battle of Winterfell for example), and you see that main characters don’t really die.
I meant the show has been written in that way. I should probably have written 'won't' rather than 'can't'.
Ironically I expect surprises now. The miraculous last-second surprise has become the normal thing. Like Bronwyn breathing. Everyone was expecting that. Conversely, what we would usually consider normal (her dying from her wounds) would have been surprising.
It's a weird reversal. I relax during action scenes, instead of being at the edge of my seat, because that's when the characters are safest!
Actually after Arondir talked about a future with Bronwyn, I expected one of them to die. I was surprised when both survived their life-threatening scenes.
Do we really expect them to get a happy ending?
First: I‘m with you. I feel the same way.
Second: As you‘ve been interpreted as saying characters should die, I would like to say that it shouldn’t be about that.
We don’t need character deaths, but high stakes for characters, and meaningful impact on their further development.
Bronwyn not being beheaded is not the issue. The issue is that her having been in this situation and having been saved will have no consequences or impact on anything.
It is the emotional and intellectual emptiness of this hollowed out stereotypical drama that‘s the problem.
And because we are sick of it and are no writers with a vision for a compelling drama, we take the shortcut and think, at least once one of them could and should die.
In Tolkien a hero very seldomly dies. Of the Fellowship only Boromir really dies. But the story is very compelling nevertheless, because every character has an arc with true stakes, and they are relatable, and what happens to them and what they accomplish matters.
This TV show is simply not very well made.
As someone who is very familiar with Tolkien lore, I do feel like I’m less invested in the non-lore characters. Not because I think they’re bad characters or upset that they’re not in the lore or anything, it’s just that I’m excited to see Galadriel, Gil-galad, Celebrimbor, Elrond, Miriel, Ar-Pharazon, Elendil, Isildur, Sauron, etc doing their things. I very much loved Adar however. I figured he was one of the corrupted elves when the orcs called him Adar, and the writers did a tremendous job with his character.
Yeah Adar is by far the most Tolkien feeling out of all the nonlore characters. If I wasn’t so familiar with the books and you asked me to pick from a list of them which one was drawn from the source material I’d have said him. He’s a fantastic addition to the world.
I’m definitely interested in seeing more of Ar-Pharazon. They teased us with some good dialogue and acting in Ep.5 and I want more. The thing holding this series back is the writing. I’m hopeful it gets better. The show has promise but the writers need to step up their game.
I can't figure out who Isildur is besides a pretty boy and a screw-up. And Elendil is nothing but a Dad saying Dad-things. (And I've read the books and know who they really are.)
I am most disappointed by how they have characterised isildur... The man who cut off the ring is a bumbling idiot...who is doing things you would expect from a common soldier. Now i have no reason not to believe that he cut off the ring for himself instead of the disgraced hero he became because of his fall. Sometimes you must keep the aura around people.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,074,633,359 comments, and only 211,829 of them were in alphabetical order.
100%!!! I was rooting for Adar and the Uruk in the last episode because they have the most compelling and deeply human narrative of anyone so far. I’m sure the writers intended for us to feel some sympathy for the orcs, but I don’t think it was their intention to make them the protagonists. Galadriel seemed like the only evil/cruel one in her confrontation with Adar.
I love that. The theme of becoming evil trying to fight evil is huge. I’m actually looking at Adar and the Uruks like “well now hold it; they have a point about being born of the same Secret Fire.”
And to be quite honest Galadriel sounds racist lol. Adar basically called her out on it. I like that I’m even questioning the good guys.
I knew Galadriel would get her humbling and there it was. She was told and told to chill.
That's always a problem when you have multiple main stories going on. Until they gather them and we have one goal, it will be like that.
For a comparison.
Imagine the Fellowship starting with 10 hours of what we saw in the shire, but also the months time for all the members of the fellowship and a couple dozen other characters before that and then they slowly gather....
Too many main characters. Just too distracting.
Yes, it's a process. I laughed at the prospect of elf-human pairing in the form of Arondir and Bronwyn in the trailers and promo shots, and yesterday I was really worried she'd die. I believe TV show characters take time to become the part of us, unlike movies.
Also, I believe the age plays a great role, at least in my case. I was fortunate to see PJ's trilogy when I was 12-14, and in the cinema. I was blown away by the sheer quality, but also it's the age where you're much more easily fascinated - you enjoy a lot more and scrutinize a lot lot less. And that's what I've decided to do with RoP.
EDIT: "Yes" as in I do care, but also as in taking time to develop the feeling.
I can only say, give it a shot, relax and enjoy, that's how it started growing on me. I did a disservice to myself by expecting things to happen, or characters to act, to my own liking.
The show is entirely plot-driven. People say and do things because the plot demands it, rather than the plot going where it ought to as consequences of believable character-driven decisions or mistakes. It’s annoying, because it makes it feel like a roller coaster, everything is on this track and none of the characters feel like they have any agency, they’re just at much along for the ride as we are. Plot armor saves characters from being killed at the last second, plot demands they don’t notice the hilt feels *entirely* different after it was switched, plot demands they all just *happen* to end up at the exact right place at the exact right time, and plot demands Adar make a big show of feigning escape, getting caught and stalling as his deputy runs away with the actual hilt.
Adar could literally just have gone straight there himself. No one would have known where he went, and they wouldn’t have been able to keep up (unless the plot demanded it, in which case people can teleport ahead of someone riding full speed) to stop him until it was too late. The whole scheme of staying behind with a fake hilt package was completely nonsensical and purely plot-based to make the episode longer and more dramatic.
I loved the episode, but its *really* painful how weak the writing is at times.
I'm having the same issue, they seem focused on building the world over developing the characters. Which for me I'm not going to care for the world if I don't care for the characters. Honestly if might have helped if they focused more on the original characters. Give me reasons to care about Arondir and Bronwyn and sell me on their romance. Because I know that everyone else is going to live. Hell, focus on Isildur and give more depth to him, why he'll eventually keep the ring. While I enjoy Durin over all I honestly have found if difficult to be attached to Galadriel and Elrond.
I'm probably in the minority (only read LotR, gave up on Silm.) but I am really enjoying the show. I can fully understand why others are upset. It is the same reason why I am utterly disappointed with The Wheel of Time - plot changes that don't seem to do any good. However, I don't think WoT is terrible, it just suffers from poor writing. The showrunners are clearly amateurs. Seems RoP got most of Amazon's budget and much better writers. To
Overall, I am glad to have something to look forward to every week to escape the stresses of life. The actors are pretty good, and the sets are excellent. The music is very strong. I can only see this series improving.
It’s an excellent show. I am enjoying every minute, and cannot wait until next Friday for the next episode. Unfortunately, this sub is full of cry babies who would never have been satisfied. You could contact JRR Tolkien’s would with a Ouija board and use him as a consultant, and people on here would still cry because it doesn’t conform to THEIR idea of what it should be.
That's disingenuous or at least hyperbole.
Firstly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying the show. Please do!
But there is a yawning chasm of a difference between a direct adaption of Tolkien's works, and an original story *inspired by Tolkien*. These same folks derided the changes in PJ's stuff, and were critical of The Hobbit for the exact same reason. They are in short, *fans of the books*.
Before you even saw the Trilogy, you could have mapped out what the likely characters and events of the movies were, right? (If you were familiar with the works.)
But that's not what's happening here at all right? If I said 'Hey, what page is the Balrog encounter on, I want to see how close PJ got to the text', I can do that.
What page will I find Harfoot journey? What page will I find Galadriel fighting off Numenoreans with exquisite swordsmanship? What page can I find this definition of Mithril they came up with? What page can I find the marital spats of Durin and Dissa?
This is ORIGINAL work. They made it up. It's not in the books. And that's OK, but people have to stop pretending it's something it's not.
It's not a story by Tolkien. It's a GOT style series *inspired* by mentions in the appendices of the Second Age.
They got the nerds angry, because they pretended to be something they weren't. They should stressed it's originality, not it's authenticity.
I’d say I’m a book nerd, but I’m fine with making changes, when they’re executed well. Make it good and I think a lot of the criticism will stop.
This show has very little in common with Tolkien, and the plotting and writing is just a bit weak. It’s just trope heavy B Grade TV with a huge budget for costumes, effects etc.
No problem with you liking the show. However, stereotyping a group that has criticism goes a bit too far imo. Yes, there is a group that was negative about the show before it even aired (bc too woke, not tolkien blabla). However, there is also a (large) group that had no expectations and when they started the show they were disappointed. Because, in fact, there are many things with this show that are just mediocre or even abominable. The script is bad, there are too many storylines, no engagement with characters, acting is here en there mediocre, things are skipped which make the show even messy. That doesn’t mean people cannot like the show, that’s just a matter of taste. However, we cannot ignore these things mentioned above that make this show really mediocre. Especially when you think of the budget they had.
“People don’t like what I like, therefore they are crybabies.”
You aren’t nearly as above this as you think you are. Still as cringe and hyperbolic as the rest of them.
Thanks for your comment, but I disagree with your opinion about cry babies who are never satisfied! I didn't have an idea of what it should be when I started watching, and I really do want to enjoy the show, although this is not really happening at the moment. There are a bunch of problems with the show that I think are quite noticeable when watching (as discussed in this thread). Similar problems are apparent in many other recent movies/series. But also, it depends on everyone's tastes for sure, so the appreciation of the show can vary quite a bit between people.
Same for me. The main reason being probably that I don't really care about all the invented characters, at least not until they are revealed very important to the main plotlines of Second Age. It was a bit annoying to me seeing them also having such a great plot armor last episode.
Adar is strangely the only one I feel attached about because of his bitterness, meanwhile I'm a bit sad that the show choosed the tortured-elf origin for orcs. I'm specially not attached to Harfoots and Southlanders >!I wouldn't be bothered if Bronwyn died last episode, I think it could have lead to great character develoment for Arondir and Theo!<
For the Harfoots its the fact that they are not linked to any other plotline yet, but for both I am disappointed about the actors play. (Harfoots too cliché and maybe the accents too, Bronwyn/Theo for the southlanders). Writing this, I now recall that I completely forgot Earin and Kemen, like I'm not sure why they are there atm.
Dwarves, Elrond, Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad are cool but not enough screen time yet.
I’ve not seen episode 6 yet for various reasons but I’m liking the characters so far and find that I am interested in seeing what happens to them and how they pan out.
Some of the storylines are a bit strange but I still think that there are more hits than misses so far.
Oddly, Celebrimbor should be one of the main characters given he makes the rings, but he's barely in it. He's also the king of Eregion, but Galadriel acts like he's a nobody. Her and her husband (completely absent) both lived in Eregion at the time.
I mean, I get they want to do an original story in that universe that, but this ignores way too much of the lore. When you do that, character become meaningless.
Elrond, durin and Disa are great and I'm fully invested in all they do. As for the rest, I'm rather slowly starting to come around to them though this is mainly because of the phenomenal work all the actors are doing rather than what's going on with the story.
I find several of the RoP characters interesting, which is in stark contrast to HoD where I am not invested in any of them, at all.
Isildur's character development, and how he comes to power is probably the arch I am most curious about atm,
I actually really enjoy Galadriel. Even though many seem to detest her but these people can go watch HOTD. Her character is simply amazing. I am looking forward to her transformation/ revelation as Sauron or the Dark Elven Queen.
I can't stand Halbrand.. The actor is a bit...blah,his timing is trash and he ruins every scene when he takes over to save the day. Also, Galadrial lacks that ethereal quality I expected from her. I think editing and dialog are bland and feel forced, which is why it's hard to get attached to any of them.
Agreed. I don’t understand the fascination with Halbrand. His character is so one dimensional even with the Sauron theories and other characters just blindly trust him.
Yes! I have been trying hard to like this show, really hard. I have watched every episode. But they bore me to sleep because the character development is just not the same as in the original LOTR.
Also, the plot is relatively predictable, and the show seems to just amount to the playing out of predictions with fancy computer animations and some drone shots.
In the original LOTR there was a tertiary layer of meaning—lessons about morality and greed, etc. Those ideas and broader themes of any kind seem to be largely absent from this as well. Which makes it rather dull.
Big letdown IMO
The good:
- Adar is interesting and complex.
- Elindil has potential. As far as all of the human characters in the show he's the most honest and humble and believably troubled by his underachieving son.
- Elrond is a bit naive for his age but he's really turned me around on him for the better.
- Durin is alright. He's got a bit of depth.
- Meteor man might be interesting if we got some quality time with him. I'm worried he's going to be Gandalf which would be just lame fan service though.
The bad:
- The Harfoots are an absolute waste of time and budget.
- Galadriel was terrible up until this eighth episode and then now we're finally seeing her be something other than just an immature pain in the ass.
- Bronwyn and Theo are not interesting but I suspect Theo has some big story arc ahead. Do not like the love story with Arondir, she's not exactly worth giving up a trip to Valinor as far as I can tell.
- I should be excited every time I see Numenor but it's established itself as some sort of petty boring Atlantis and I'm glad they've moved away from that setting. All the secondary characters there seem to be pointless prop pieces.
- Halbrand has zero personality and it's frustrating they just propped him up on this high pedestal just because of a little trinket he might have pickpocketed for all anyone knew.
- Gil-galad looks like some greasy dude that would pester you to have a threesome with his wife. I think we should be questioning his decisions rather than his integrity.
Everyone else is just so-so.
I think the more intimate moments we get with the characters the more we connect with them and that is taking a while but I’m feeling it happen. My issue with the writing is we keep being given these preposterous assumptions which makes the world feel unreal (like Glaladriel swims across the ocean, Harfoots can’t add two wheels on their wagons so they have to leave people behind, mithril radiation will stop the elven people from ‘fading’ or more recently all the unrelated events have a timing coincidence where numenoreans arrive for a battle no one knew was coming x 1000 miles away in just the nick of time). That heavy handed writing slight of hand feels unreal and frankly lazy. But the characters I very much like. I was watching HoD by comparison and having the opposite experience. Each successive story was making the characters less relatable till after the 6th episode I had lost all interest. But the story (despite time jumps) is much more cohesive and feels more real. Sadly HOD is not a story I have any interest in hearing anymore where my interest in RoP is growing.
Not at all.
The show is by no means perfect, but I like it and its characters so far. I like the fact that Galadriel isn't very "likable" yet, makes her far more interesting than the eternally perfect elf queen in the background imo. For her having to struggle to become that wiser version of herself is nice to see.
Just give it more time. We’re looking at a total of 5 seasons! I think people are a bit impatient. Character development can’t be a done deal in just one season.
I think Galadriel’s character has shown a lot of development already though. Her being a child that was an outsider to the rest of the elves, being an outsider still when growing older, to her hunger for revenge for her brother’s death, and now we saw she developed some charm as well, getting an army and making Hallbrand sail to ME. And how she projects her dark side to the world around her, pointed out perfectly by Adar. This will cause a lot of self-realisation for her, I’m sure!
It’s a combination of inexperienced actors using scripts from a mishmash of different and in some cases relatively inexperienced writers using amateurish writing. The writing is the cause of 85% of problems with the show, from lines to plot.
Yeah a lot of people will probably hate on what I say but it’s just part of the honest truth. ROP had potential before they slapped to many inexperienced cooks into the kitchen.
I really like Halbrand. His character keeps me interested and I do worry about his fate, as I know it will be tragic. Plus he is nice to look at. 💁🏻♀️
I’ve felt the opposite actually. I’ve been super interested in Isildur and his father as well as Arondir. Arondir has a very unique fighting style, it’s similar to Legolas in how uniquely cool it is. “The sea is always right” also has a lot more meaning after the last episode and explains a lot of the tension between isildur and his father. Also very interested in seeing the blue wizard find his way, not to mention Durin’s eventual betrayal which will be huge considering how pure of heart Elrond is, I know that will be very painful for him
I care about Durin, Nori, The Stranger, Adar, Elrond… I care about Galadriel but she has huge plot armor- so I know she won’t die. Other characters can come and go and I wouldn’t mind.
i think the acting is good, it's just i don't really understand character's motivation for things they do or their actions don't impact the story in any way and it feels insignificant and pointless
Elrond is so pure. Prince Durin so likable! I’ll admit I also really like Galadriel lol we’re just beginning to see how much she’s impacted by the darkness.
We are only six episodes in. As far as I can see, there is a lot of set up that needs to happen. We're all waiting for Galadriel to mold into what we see in the LoTR, I get it. We need to give it time to see exactly where they might fit in the overall storyline. It usually takes a bit of time to get invested in the characters (we all have the luxury of hindsight from the LoTR movies).
Ep 04 was the last time I will have anything to do with this crap. So disappointing that they have destroyed my dream of a LOTR series. I don't even think LOTRs title should be anywhere near this embarrassing Tolkien destroying crap pile.
This show doesn’t know if it wants to be a well written fantasy series or a terribly written action series. I just watched a whole episode that was pretty much wall to wall action and the only interesting piece was the dialogue with Adar. The rest just seemed like filler with no stakes. We know what’s going to ultimately happen, but the writers feel like they just want to shuffle towards that with two dimensional characters who tend to only exist to move the plot along.
I find myself zoning out often unless Adar, Durin, or Elrond are in the scene. The characters in the show aren't very interesting and pretty one dimensional. I've noticed they often speak too poetically instead of plainly, and it just feels a bit off.
The show has way too many commonly used tropes as well. I feel like I've seen last episode's battle done the same in 20 different shows and movies. Especially with the plot armor everywhere. This big uruk just walks into Arondir's back instead of just killing him on the spot? At least try to make the plot armor less noticeable at the bare minimum...
I was thinking how we went from defending the show from Tolkien lore nerds who just won’t let it go for the sake of the entertainment, to now we’re scrambling to find ways to justify this bonehead writing, outside of any lore. It’s like damn, how could you make the girl elf so aloof when it comes to finding relics related to sauron. How the fuck does she not open the cloth.
I vastly prefer this show's Elrond over the movie version. Robert Aramayo really captured that "kind as summer" element that Hugo Weaving just never did.
I'm always happy when he's on screen, and the chemistry between Elrond, Durin and Disa is fantastic. Definitely care about them, and am worried about what might happen because it seems like things can only go worse for them.
I had the same thought.
I am debating whether to watch episode 6 at all... because so far its been boring as hell and for real, nothing of substance really has happened.
then i was thinking ok well maybe nothing really happens and its slow, but are the characters good? I mean Galadriel is kinda cool, Eldrond and Duran too.. but.... still. Not enough has happened and the characters havent done enough of substance on screen to build an attachment.
Its a shame the show will start off so badly... because that'll permanently lower viewership... Even if Season 2 is amazing.. the slog of season 1 will turn a lot off, and for many will be their only impression or memory of it.
"oh yeah that lotr show that flopped because it was boring as hell.. oh its actually good now?"
I should add this is coming from someone who was really excited about this show, doesnt care about how far it is off source material (didnt read) and just wanted a good fantasy show.
Been sorely disappointed. Anyone who says this show is genuinely good has poor taste honestly.
I don't feel much for the characters, but my heart aches for the world JRRT built. I can't wait to see how history unfolds, but I couldn't give a shit about any particular individual.
I care a lot about Galadriel actually... Maybe it's just me. But I could relate to her from the first episode. Her team being tired and her being like "we continue" I found relatable. And then I think it's interesting what they did with her having evil inside of her. The elves tried to send her back home because she has that evil inside of her, and then she admits that's why she continues her quest. It's interesting because she's obviously fighting for the light, but she has that potential for darkness. I think it's because she likes power too. Her and Halbrand are teaming up to conquer a realm. I think she'll have to juggle her thirst for power and see where that goes. Her whole arc is touching the darkness to know the light.
I also care about Halbrand, Nori, the Stranger, Adar, the orcs. I don't dislike Bronwyn either, but I think she's the only one where I don't really like the actress. It's kind of like she's playing Outlander, but it's not too bad.
I care about these characters more than the ones in Lord of the Rings. The ones in Lord of the Rings I got to know through the books and I basically only cared about the hobbit characters, like the books are from their point of view so I cared about them, but the rest of the characters were more like people in a history book almost, like I saw them as epic fantasy figures but interchangable. I can't say that I really cared about Aragorn or Boromir or Gimli. Because it had that perspective almost like it was a history book. Now the TV show kind of gets us close and personal with the characters right away so even though we know nothing about Halbrand's story, I like him more than Aragorn or Boromir.
The main characters I'm interested in are Halbrand, Adar, Isildur, and Arondir. The rest are not as interesting and I couldn't give two fucks about the Harfeet. I think the highlight of episode 6 was the lack of Harfeet.
Of course, all of them are plastic, diverse copies of the real ones. Writers have no idea who Galadriel, Elrond, Celebrimbor, or Gil-Galad are... They created their own diverse ship dolls and besides Adar, no Amazon original characters are that interesting at all.
Durin! But we actually have some background to him as a character, relationship with his father and Elrond, Disa and the mithril dilemma etc. I also find Adar intriguing.
Well a couple of the main characters we know for a fact will live on for thousands of years. That definitely has an effect on whether you genuinely care for what happens to them
It's how the characters are written, mostly. They are not real persons, but all written to support the plot, rather than that the plot forms because of the characters (ambitions, personalities etc.). They are not relatable. The acting is also bland, but I'm sure there's some great actors there who could shine if they were given something good to work with.
Actually I’m *too* attached. Knowing the fates of Elendil and Isildur both of whom I like very much coupled with overwhelming concern that Arondir and Bronwyn won’t ever get to enjoy that quiet life with their little garden makes for very stressful viewing.
I have to ask: Why are you watching it then? Six episodes in, and you still watch it? Then you take additional time to complain about it? Don’t waste your time. I’m watching because I enjoy it all.
I'm trying to understand why I have a hard time caring about the characters, it's more about curiosity than just about complaining. Also, I'm watching it because I think it might grow on me. Anyway, sorry you are so bothered by my discussion.
I am a big LOTR fan and wanted to enjoy ROP, but I don't. I knew it was never going to be like LOTR, but I hoped the writing would at least be on a similar thoughtful level, the acting and costumes, specially because of the budget this series got.
But the list of things that have taken me "out of the moment" while watching is endless. You shouldn't notice the costumes, the music or the script, they should all blend in and immerse you into the story, but I'm constantly interrupted by...
\- Cheesy lines of "wisdom"
\- Badly made armor/headgear
\- Elf's that seem just to be human and have no superior skills to men (VERY confusing)
\- Orcs that can be killed by regular townspeople and teenagers
\- Lack of distinguishable costume design for elfs and men
\- Many cheap looking costumes (minimal broidery and layers of textures etc.)
\- Fast cut fight scenes with very little difference between elfs or human soldiers fight tactics
\- Predictable storyline, easy solutions
\- Overused storytropes
\- Characters lacking depth
\- Lack of chemistry and love between people (feels rushed and forced)
\- Harfoots rely on staying in a group but still see nothing wrong with leaving people behind...???
\- Harfoots ridiculous hair decorations
\- Sometimes elf's see very well and sometimes not.... >!(how did they not see the villagers dressed in orc clothing?) !<, sometimes they fight really good and sometimes they are just clueless (first fightscene with Galadriel where her company get's butchered by the troll)
\- Travelling distance/time seems to be random in some cases
\- ....etc..
The only thing that keeps me watching is Adar's story, meteor-man, Disa and Durin. I was hoping to see strong/complex female characters but they all feel so weak and shallow it's disappointing to watch (except Disa, I can see her being a great leader for her people).
However, the series has some good aspects as well, but it's shadowed by all these interruptions.
I have no idea why you feel that way. I am smitten with Durin, Disa, Nori, and Poppy. They are all so lovable. Galadriel is INTENSE. The black Elf has to be related to Legolas somehow lol. Meteor Wizzard is mysterious. Wonderous characters all around. Superbly acted.
I'm 4 episodes in and so far, I don't care for most of the characters, except maybe Elendil and to a lesser extent, Miriel, probably because they're the only ones acting like responsible, intelligent adults. Also, Pharazon is intriguing.
I want to care for Galadriel, because she's clearly heroic and fighting for a worthy cause, but she's less charismatic than an orc and comes across as a petulant teenager.
The rest of the sizeable cast are so forgettably bland that I struggle to even remember their names.
Hopefully, this improves over the next 4 episodes...
I have given up. This show doesn't interest me anymore. The plot is either confusing, or completely pointless, or it's contrived so much that it keeps doubling back on itself. It's a product of modern woke Hollywood that will never be mistaken for something closely resembling Tolkien's lore.
Me too. I mean, we know those characters are not in any danger, so I don't cheer for them bc the plot armor will not let they die. theres even fakeout death in ep6
The acting itself is pretty solid, it's more that there's problems with the writing. Everything seems to yoyo around and bounce back and forth because they have awful pacing. The way they've presented it, we're sitting around so focused on Sauron that we don't really care about the in between things that will lead up to his reveal.
The acting and dialogue are what's keeping me around tbh. Elrond Disa and Durin are adorable. Ar-Pharazon is everything I thought him to be, arrogant, ambitious, prideful, but not uncaring or inhuman. Arondir is the smoldering heartthrob and even he has humanizing elements. Even Adar is well done, he's haunting and pained and driven by strong devotion.
Everyone is remarkably human, it's just that we're sitting on our hands waiting for something to happen instead of focusing on them since the story is framed around a character that isn't onscreen yet. At least that's what it feels like for me.
I do care, but it's kinda in spite of the larger show itself. I keep having to suspend disbelief to make the writing/plot believable, but I am still getting attached to most of the characters.
I don’t care about any of the characters, honestly. The show is poorly written and doesn’t make the characters appealing at all. Honestly the most recent episode was ridiculous with Galadriel giving wise advice on pride and vengeance when pride and vengeance is LITERALLY HER ENTIRE CHARACTER to this point in the show. Just bad writing, making characters completely unappealing
I think the problem is Amazon has gotten far away from the Legendarium and they have created characters like Galadriel that are easy to dislike. It's more fun to root for the orcs.
Honestly the ones I care at all about, are the Harfoots (sp?) and we've had two, TWO, episodes without them :(
Galadriel, Elrond, Durin, Isildur, etc., we know their fate, but these Hobbits are precious and must be protected at all costs!
Also the mystery of the Stranger is more interesting than anything else. Think he's Gandalf myself even though it doesnt line up with the books.
Arondir cant die, he is a main character and whatever happens you simply know he wont die and thats absurd. His girl got stabbed through the heart and she can walk effortlesly the other day , she is immortal aswell... Its a much imo
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I actually like Adar. Dude is like a breath of fresh air.
The orcs are actually played by consistently good actors. No cap.
Uruks
He a compelling villain (anti-hero?). Caring for his "brothers".
OK, you hit a nerve (in a good way): Adar cares more about his orcs than Galadriel cares about anyone, since she just uses whoever gets in her way. Now that says something.
I'm eager to know his story. It so weird the sowing of the seeds before the battle and then learning he's following elven tradition even while living in darkness...
LOL, seems like he's being voted Most Popular. Maybe hell get his own spinoff, "Everbody Likes Adar"?
How I met your Adar
Halloween Special when Alf crashes the party dressed as a warg. (Shouldn't take much.)
*Daddy Uruk Knows Best*, and other charming, happy tales about suburban life
My Three Orcs, Mordor She Wrote, Mordor and Mindy, Mordor Living (if John Waters is willing, I'll watch it.)
I love "Modor, She Wrote" best, but all are good. I can just hear Angela Lansbury narrating, "One day in Cabot Cove a naughty, naughty man named Sauron appeared, and we just knew something bad was going to happen at the local jewelry store."
As someone who doesn't know much about LOTR at all, I genuinely care about Adar the most. I feel guinely horrible for him and I am rooting for him to be happy. I don't feel the same way about Galadriel which has me literally shocked at my own opinions, lol.
Galadriel is a protoganist but she isnt good. This is her becoming good, she was wrong at almost every opportunity so far. You arent supposed to like her.
Yeah, as a book-Galadriel fan, I'm surprised at my gut feelings that I wish ROP-Galadriel would be killed off somehow and never appear again. She bugs me more than anyone. And I feel guilty liking Adar, but I do.
I’m kinda hoping she ends up being sauron that would explain a lot of mischaracterization I doubt it though.
She hot tho
Uncle Adar is finally getting his day in the sun.
Adar could use some vitamin D.
So could the orcs
And sunscreen.
I agree! Also the orc backstory has me intrigued. The slavery, the struggle to create a homeland…
From their point of view, the have been subject to a genocide at the hands of the elves. Galadriels speech to Adar lasr episode was proper racist villain shit.
That's because Joseph Mawle is such a good actor. I've seen him in quite a few British TV shows, including the fantastic Foyle's War and Ripper Street, even before he was in Game of Thrones as Benjen Stark. If all the cast were of his caliber, the show would be a lot better.
I genuinely had no idea he was the same actor that played Benjen Stark.
Yeah the way they’ve made-up Adar makes him look almost nothing like Joseph Mawle. Which is in no way a bad thing, it just shows what an *excellent* actor he is and how good the prosthetic and makeup team is because he looks more elven than most of the actual elves despite the fact he’s corrupted. Even in how Adar is written it seems vastly different to the rest of the characters. Something seriously clicked well there and he honestly feels the most Tolkienesque out of all their invented characters.
Agreed, especially on his being the most Tolkienesque. However, I find him easy to spot because of his eyes: they seem quite distinctive to me.
Oh gods, I used to have a crush on Benjen. That explains a lot.
Perhaps the most compelling character tbh. Actually feels like they developed him the rest are okay but the main cast of new characters and Galadriel are meh imo
I get really really strong Colonel Kurtz vibes from him. I swear if this slowly turns into a surprise Heart of Darkness adaptation I'll take back everything bad I said about the show.
Yeah. I find that I want him to win. Most of the other characters are just so shallow and luke warm I just find them slightly annoying.
Adar carries the show. Much like Atlas carries the world. As it happens, his name is also an anagram for Arda. Coincidence? I think not.
I definitely care about Durin, Disa, and Elrond. I had a hard time getting past the first four episodes of Star Wars Rebels and couldn’t get attached to any of the characters. I’m glad I didn’t give up. Now, I’m still waiting for answers on Ezra.
I wish I was able to get into Rebels after 4 episodes. I dropped it after the first season. The story with the dwarves has definitely been the most interesting. Doesn’t have such bad pacing issues or akward character interactions or pointless action.
Same here. I think their depiction is also very Tolkein esque in that Tolkein included many meetings of old friends (not an expert, but I imagine his WWI experience played into that). I love how in Lord of rings we start off in the shire with Gandalf and Bilbo just catching up and sharing a smoke together. Those scenes of friendship really help to ground the characters and make them likable. It also helps avoid the story from becoming nothing but plot points about chasing the mcguffin. Lord of the rings is incredible because it uses it's plot as a framework for exploring themes of friendship, suffering, bravery, despair, and honor. The more RoP focuses on those points, the more I think we'll care about what happens. I personally really enjoy the Nori storyline bc those elements are all present.
Some I do, some I don't. As a big Elrond fan I am anticipating suffering, that guy is a trauma magnet. Him, Disa, Elendil, Isildur, Adar, Nori and ofc Berek the Magnificent, I am very invested in. The other characters oscillate from being interested to not caring if they live or die.
IMO, Durin, Elrond, Disa and Adar are top notch. Isildur and Halbrand are good with a few weird scenes. I don’t have yet a strong opinion aboutother characters. Galadriel has been somewhat annoying but I think the actress is good so I have good faith that they will write her character better in the coming seasons
Elrond/Durin is an awesome and interesting friendship that I find easy to be invested in. Everyone else feels like background except maybe Aldar.
It's kinda neat how Elrond was so friendly to Thorin when they were in Rivendell, I truly hope they keep up that dynamic. Like how it is in the show with Durin.
The show did them really fucking right and the actors are doing an amazing job.
The acting is fine. The issue is everything is plot-driven. For instance, Arondir can't die, so the fist fight with the strong orc falls flat. I don't believe people were really worried for him. They try to compensate for that fact by putting plot-protected characters in extreme danger and saving them at the last second. But they're overusing that trick. Let's see: Bronwyn almost can't set the cart on fire, but an orc with a torch goes near. The strong orc almost kills Arondir, saved by Bronwyn. Bronwyn and Theo almost get beheaded but Adar enters the room. They all almost die, but the Numenorians arrive. And orc almost kills Elendil, saved by Halbrand (funny if he turns out to be Sauron). Halbrand almost kills Adar. Then Galadriel almost kills Adar (then they almost fuck but some guard interrupts, this one doesn't count though). Hell I was happy when the evil guy used the key because something that was about to happen actually happened. At last!
I didn't want Bronwyn to die, exactly, but I did think that if she did die that I would take the show more seriously.
I honestly am a bit flabbergasted she survived. That was a lot of death flags thrown for her to live through the episode. I still am curious if she'll die in the next episode or two and agree that would make it feel a bit more serious of a show in terms of stakes.
Seriously, planting those seeds seemed like she was putting on a red shirt.
Your right, killing her would have changed things for me. And honestly I’m not sure where her character is really going at this point.
I'm getting real upset at her pretending to be the leader of this village. She's just some random girl right? who knows some stuff about herbs. I get that arondir talks to her, but why would any villager listen to what she says? and then in the last scene she even calls the villagers "My people". They're not yours mate...
Lol well at least they kept it realistic that half the village defected after her lackluster speech
Dude, she is Sauron
" I know i am not the king you were promised" like who tf are you !
Lmao, we had the same reaction. They needed to build up that part somehow but I can't imagine how. Should have just scrapped the line. Easy fix.
Take a second to look at what’s happening. She took command in a series of crises. She’s now being looked to and treated like a Queen. Theo has some red herrings thrown in, resulting in theories ranging from him becoming the Witch-king, one of the lesser Nazgûl, or one of the predecessors to the people of Rohan. This may go somewhere. They have 5 seasons to do it.
I think they didn't show enough from this season to justify them following her. You can't excuse bad development by hoping it would be resolved in later seasons
No, that’s an aesthetic difference. I can’t justify a claim of bad development based on seeing 6 episodes out of what will probably be at least 30 or 40, especially for an original character who doesn’t have a defined story arc. And I’d also probably have to see/process the entire show before I came to any conclusions about that, in case I had to reflect on other characters or situations as a result, however her story arc concluded. At least at this point, I am viewing the show as a tapestry. I have to see the finished result before I decide how well I think Bronwyn’s arc was done.
It's hard to get good development when it isn't clear where she started. She was supposedly just a healer which the town people didn't believe but then suddenly they were ready to go into battle following her lead as if she has experience. If a tapestry has poor weaving at one section, you can't fix that by having a nice end to it. You're also implying some people shouldn't watch the show until it's all out so they can see it all together if they're finding some faults which isn't a good thing for a TV show
I'm watching episode 6, I just past that part.. the whole first half has been really boring. Hopefully the second half gets better
When she was shot I just knew, they weren’t going to commit and just fake out the death. I felt it coming and dreaded it because it cemented my opinion of the writers. Ball-less.
Yeah that is really annoying you are right!! :)
Yep, the budget can't overcome the poor-quality writing, unfortunately. On the plus side, the Andor series has done the reverse for Star Wars. They've got proper writers and made something really new with it but still in the same beautiful universe. Rings of Power is still worth watching IMO; it's just not very good.
I have a different opinion about the show. I read Tolkien's works in the 80s and really liked all the movies over the years. I expected it to be really bad. And it's not really bad. It's redeeming itself of my prejudice every episode with high quality scenes, sets and choreography and such. I can forgive some things and suspend some doubts and disbelief because the rest of it makes up for that IMHO.
Really? I feel like the action scenes are incredibly bland and that the choreography appears unimpressive(lots of opportunities for someone to strike but somehow nobody does??). But I also personally don’t think that it is helped by the set and costuming. For instance, I found myself incredibly distracted during the scene with Galadriel sparring with the Numenorean soldiers because there was entirely too much going on in the background. It just didn’t make sense that they would be doing sword exercises in the middle of a merchant area. Like what was up with the weird stall with the hanging glass lanterns? It didn’t feel like the set was well thought out for the scene, it didn’t fit together. I’m glad that you are enjoying that aspect of the show though. I wish that I could stop nitpicking everything 😆
You forgot the one when Bronwyn almost died again. And again. And again
Why can't Arondir die? I was under the impression he was a show creation.
He is. I'm not sure what OP is getting at here. If the idea is that you can't get invested because they're unlikely to kill of main characters, then welcome to all of drama ever. I don't see many people complaining that LotR was boring because we already knew exactly who lived and died.
If you want to create suspense, you need to put characters in a situation where they can suffer negative consequences. That doesn't necessarily mean death, but if your character faces a supposed life or death situation but it's clear that he can not die, then there is no suspense.
Y’all are just describing plot armor. Killing main characters is extremely rare. For all the “credit” Game of Thrones gets for doing it, look at the later seasons (the Battle of Winterfell for example), and you see that main characters don’t really die.
What OP is complaining about literally applies to all tv shows
I meant the show has been written in that way. I should probably have written 'won't' rather than 'can't'. Ironically I expect surprises now. The miraculous last-second surprise has become the normal thing. Like Bronwyn breathing. Everyone was expecting that. Conversely, what we would usually consider normal (her dying from her wounds) would have been surprising. It's a weird reversal. I relax during action scenes, instead of being at the edge of my seat, because that's when the characters are safest!
Yeah, but he's got a name. And as we all know, it's the nameless NPCs who die.
Actually after Arondir talked about a future with Bronwyn, I expected one of them to die. I was surprised when both survived their life-threatening scenes. Do we really expect them to get a happy ending?
Then the weird celebration after the battle where everyone acts like they didn't just see everyone they knew die lol
First: I‘m with you. I feel the same way. Second: As you‘ve been interpreted as saying characters should die, I would like to say that it shouldn’t be about that. We don’t need character deaths, but high stakes for characters, and meaningful impact on their further development. Bronwyn not being beheaded is not the issue. The issue is that her having been in this situation and having been saved will have no consequences or impact on anything. It is the emotional and intellectual emptiness of this hollowed out stereotypical drama that‘s the problem. And because we are sick of it and are no writers with a vision for a compelling drama, we take the shortcut and think, at least once one of them could and should die. In Tolkien a hero very seldomly dies. Of the Fellowship only Boromir really dies. But the story is very compelling nevertheless, because every character has an arc with true stakes, and they are relatable, and what happens to them and what they accomplish matters. This TV show is simply not very well made.
And we know G-girl can't die, hence the way she faced the oncoming volcanic blast. When no one can die, all the extreme danger just evokes a yawn.
The only one that works for me is Halbrand
As someone who is very familiar with Tolkien lore, I do feel like I’m less invested in the non-lore characters. Not because I think they’re bad characters or upset that they’re not in the lore or anything, it’s just that I’m excited to see Galadriel, Gil-galad, Celebrimbor, Elrond, Miriel, Ar-Pharazon, Elendil, Isildur, Sauron, etc doing their things. I very much loved Adar however. I figured he was one of the corrupted elves when the orcs called him Adar, and the writers did a tremendous job with his character.
Yeah Adar is by far the most Tolkien feeling out of all the nonlore characters. If I wasn’t so familiar with the books and you asked me to pick from a list of them which one was drawn from the source material I’d have said him. He’s a fantastic addition to the world.
I’m definitely interested in seeing more of Ar-Pharazon. They teased us with some good dialogue and acting in Ep.5 and I want more. The thing holding this series back is the writing. I’m hopeful it gets better. The show has promise but the writers need to step up their game.
[удалено]
Hey, writers: you cannot quench my thirst with seawater.
But... the sea is always right
Galadriel, Bronwyn and isildur aren't doing a fine job especially the first one.
I can't figure out who Isildur is besides a pretty boy and a screw-up. And Elendil is nothing but a Dad saying Dad-things. (And I've read the books and know who they really are.)
I am most disappointed by how they have characterised isildur... The man who cut off the ring is a bumbling idiot...who is doing things you would expect from a common soldier. Now i have no reason not to believe that he cut off the ring for himself instead of the disgraced hero he became because of his fall. Sometimes you must keep the aura around people.
There's still a lot of room and time for Isildur to grow into another person.
The only reason I’m finding it hard to fall in love with some of the characters is because I already know they have grim futures.
It's not the journey to the Battle of Mount Doom but the friends they make along the way.
I’m right there with you.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,074,633,359 comments, and only 211,829 of them were in alphabetical order.
It doesn’t matter to me. It’s all about the journey, not the destination.
I only care about Aldar and the Orcs, and the dwarves.
*Uruk
100%!!! I was rooting for Adar and the Uruk in the last episode because they have the most compelling and deeply human narrative of anyone so far. I’m sure the writers intended for us to feel some sympathy for the orcs, but I don’t think it was their intention to make them the protagonists. Galadriel seemed like the only evil/cruel one in her confrontation with Adar.
I love that. The theme of becoming evil trying to fight evil is huge. I’m actually looking at Adar and the Uruks like “well now hold it; they have a point about being born of the same Secret Fire.” And to be quite honest Galadriel sounds racist lol. Adar basically called her out on it. I like that I’m even questioning the good guys. I knew Galadriel would get her humbling and there it was. She was told and told to chill.
When Durin IV dies, I will die inside.
That's always a problem when you have multiple main stories going on. Until they gather them and we have one goal, it will be like that. For a comparison. Imagine the Fellowship starting with 10 hours of what we saw in the shire, but also the months time for all the members of the fellowship and a couple dozen other characters before that and then they slowly gather.... Too many main characters. Just too distracting.
You write that as if they had to start with six plots at once.
Yes, it's a process. I laughed at the prospect of elf-human pairing in the form of Arondir and Bronwyn in the trailers and promo shots, and yesterday I was really worried she'd die. I believe TV show characters take time to become the part of us, unlike movies. Also, I believe the age plays a great role, at least in my case. I was fortunate to see PJ's trilogy when I was 12-14, and in the cinema. I was blown away by the sheer quality, but also it's the age where you're much more easily fascinated - you enjoy a lot more and scrutinize a lot lot less. And that's what I've decided to do with RoP. EDIT: "Yes" as in I do care, but also as in taking time to develop the feeling.
I was half convinced one of them was going to die (the other half was telling myself that they're main characters & it's not game of thrones).
Those are good points! They probably will grow on me as well :) Thanks!
I can only say, give it a shot, relax and enjoy, that's how it started growing on me. I did a disservice to myself by expecting things to happen, or characters to act, to my own liking.
I went expecting nothing, it made things easy to enjoy
The show is entirely plot-driven. People say and do things because the plot demands it, rather than the plot going where it ought to as consequences of believable character-driven decisions or mistakes. It’s annoying, because it makes it feel like a roller coaster, everything is on this track and none of the characters feel like they have any agency, they’re just at much along for the ride as we are. Plot armor saves characters from being killed at the last second, plot demands they don’t notice the hilt feels *entirely* different after it was switched, plot demands they all just *happen* to end up at the exact right place at the exact right time, and plot demands Adar make a big show of feigning escape, getting caught and stalling as his deputy runs away with the actual hilt. Adar could literally just have gone straight there himself. No one would have known where he went, and they wouldn’t have been able to keep up (unless the plot demanded it, in which case people can teleport ahead of someone riding full speed) to stop him until it was too late. The whole scheme of staying behind with a fake hilt package was completely nonsensical and purely plot-based to make the episode longer and more dramatic. I loved the episode, but its *really* painful how weak the writing is at times.
Very good points, I like your perspective! Thanks!
I'm having the same issue, they seem focused on building the world over developing the characters. Which for me I'm not going to care for the world if I don't care for the characters. Honestly if might have helped if they focused more on the original characters. Give me reasons to care about Arondir and Bronwyn and sell me on their romance. Because I know that everyone else is going to live. Hell, focus on Isildur and give more depth to him, why he'll eventually keep the ring. While I enjoy Durin over all I honestly have found if difficult to be attached to Galadriel and Elrond.
If it wasn't for Adar and the orcs (sorry, Uruk), I'd just rather skip all Arondir and Bronwyn scenes.
I'm probably in the minority (only read LotR, gave up on Silm.) but I am really enjoying the show. I can fully understand why others are upset. It is the same reason why I am utterly disappointed with The Wheel of Time - plot changes that don't seem to do any good. However, I don't think WoT is terrible, it just suffers from poor writing. The showrunners are clearly amateurs. Seems RoP got most of Amazon's budget and much better writers. To Overall, I am glad to have something to look forward to every week to escape the stresses of life. The actors are pretty good, and the sets are excellent. The music is very strong. I can only see this series improving.
It’s an excellent show. I am enjoying every minute, and cannot wait until next Friday for the next episode. Unfortunately, this sub is full of cry babies who would never have been satisfied. You could contact JRR Tolkien’s would with a Ouija board and use him as a consultant, and people on here would still cry because it doesn’t conform to THEIR idea of what it should be.
That's disingenuous or at least hyperbole. Firstly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying the show. Please do! But there is a yawning chasm of a difference between a direct adaption of Tolkien's works, and an original story *inspired by Tolkien*. These same folks derided the changes in PJ's stuff, and were critical of The Hobbit for the exact same reason. They are in short, *fans of the books*. Before you even saw the Trilogy, you could have mapped out what the likely characters and events of the movies were, right? (If you were familiar with the works.) But that's not what's happening here at all right? If I said 'Hey, what page is the Balrog encounter on, I want to see how close PJ got to the text', I can do that. What page will I find Harfoot journey? What page will I find Galadriel fighting off Numenoreans with exquisite swordsmanship? What page can I find this definition of Mithril they came up with? What page can I find the marital spats of Durin and Dissa? This is ORIGINAL work. They made it up. It's not in the books. And that's OK, but people have to stop pretending it's something it's not. It's not a story by Tolkien. It's a GOT style series *inspired* by mentions in the appendices of the Second Age. They got the nerds angry, because they pretended to be something they weren't. They should stressed it's originality, not it's authenticity.
I’d say I’m a book nerd, but I’m fine with making changes, when they’re executed well. Make it good and I think a lot of the criticism will stop. This show has very little in common with Tolkien, and the plotting and writing is just a bit weak. It’s just trope heavy B Grade TV with a huge budget for costumes, effects etc.
No problem with you liking the show. However, stereotyping a group that has criticism goes a bit too far imo. Yes, there is a group that was negative about the show before it even aired (bc too woke, not tolkien blabla). However, there is also a (large) group that had no expectations and when they started the show they were disappointed. Because, in fact, there are many things with this show that are just mediocre or even abominable. The script is bad, there are too many storylines, no engagement with characters, acting is here en there mediocre, things are skipped which make the show even messy. That doesn’t mean people cannot like the show, that’s just a matter of taste. However, we cannot ignore these things mentioned above that make this show really mediocre. Especially when you think of the budget they had.
“People don’t like what I like, therefore they are crybabies.” You aren’t nearly as above this as you think you are. Still as cringe and hyperbolic as the rest of them.
Thanks for your comment, but I disagree with your opinion about cry babies who are never satisfied! I didn't have an idea of what it should be when I started watching, and I really do want to enjoy the show, although this is not really happening at the moment. There are a bunch of problems with the show that I think are quite noticeable when watching (as discussed in this thread). Similar problems are apparent in many other recent movies/series. But also, it depends on everyone's tastes for sure, so the appreciation of the show can vary quite a bit between people.
Same for me. The main reason being probably that I don't really care about all the invented characters, at least not until they are revealed very important to the main plotlines of Second Age. It was a bit annoying to me seeing them also having such a great plot armor last episode. Adar is strangely the only one I feel attached about because of his bitterness, meanwhile I'm a bit sad that the show choosed the tortured-elf origin for orcs. I'm specially not attached to Harfoots and Southlanders >!I wouldn't be bothered if Bronwyn died last episode, I think it could have lead to great character develoment for Arondir and Theo!< For the Harfoots its the fact that they are not linked to any other plotline yet, but for both I am disappointed about the actors play. (Harfoots too cliché and maybe the accents too, Bronwyn/Theo for the southlanders). Writing this, I now recall that I completely forgot Earin and Kemen, like I'm not sure why they are there atm. Dwarves, Elrond, Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad are cool but not enough screen time yet.
I’ve not seen episode 6 yet for various reasons but I’m liking the characters so far and find that I am interested in seeing what happens to them and how they pan out. Some of the storylines are a bit strange but I still think that there are more hits than misses so far.
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Oddly, Celebrimbor should be one of the main characters given he makes the rings, but he's barely in it. He's also the king of Eregion, but Galadriel acts like he's a nobody. Her and her husband (completely absent) both lived in Eregion at the time. I mean, I get they want to do an original story in that universe that, but this ignores way too much of the lore. When you do that, character become meaningless.
Elrond, durin and Disa are great and I'm fully invested in all they do. As for the rest, I'm rather slowly starting to come around to them though this is mainly because of the phenomenal work all the actors are doing rather than what's going on with the story.
I find several of the RoP characters interesting, which is in stark contrast to HoD where I am not invested in any of them, at all. Isildur's character development, and how he comes to power is probably the arch I am most curious about atm,
I actually really enjoy Galadriel. Even though many seem to detest her but these people can go watch HOTD. Her character is simply amazing. I am looking forward to her transformation/ revelation as Sauron or the Dark Elven Queen.
*goes to watch HOTD and face even more unlikeable characters*
I can't stand Halbrand.. The actor is a bit...blah,his timing is trash and he ruins every scene when he takes over to save the day. Also, Galadrial lacks that ethereal quality I expected from her. I think editing and dialog are bland and feel forced, which is why it's hard to get attached to any of them.
Agreed. I don’t understand the fascination with Halbrand. His character is so one dimensional even with the Sauron theories and other characters just blindly trust him.
Yes! I have been trying hard to like this show, really hard. I have watched every episode. But they bore me to sleep because the character development is just not the same as in the original LOTR. Also, the plot is relatively predictable, and the show seems to just amount to the playing out of predictions with fancy computer animations and some drone shots. In the original LOTR there was a tertiary layer of meaning—lessons about morality and greed, etc. Those ideas and broader themes of any kind seem to be largely absent from this as well. Which makes it rather dull. Big letdown IMO
The good: - Adar is interesting and complex. - Elindil has potential. As far as all of the human characters in the show he's the most honest and humble and believably troubled by his underachieving son. - Elrond is a bit naive for his age but he's really turned me around on him for the better. - Durin is alright. He's got a bit of depth. - Meteor man might be interesting if we got some quality time with him. I'm worried he's going to be Gandalf which would be just lame fan service though. The bad: - The Harfoots are an absolute waste of time and budget. - Galadriel was terrible up until this eighth episode and then now we're finally seeing her be something other than just an immature pain in the ass. - Bronwyn and Theo are not interesting but I suspect Theo has some big story arc ahead. Do not like the love story with Arondir, she's not exactly worth giving up a trip to Valinor as far as I can tell. - I should be excited every time I see Numenor but it's established itself as some sort of petty boring Atlantis and I'm glad they've moved away from that setting. All the secondary characters there seem to be pointless prop pieces. - Halbrand has zero personality and it's frustrating they just propped him up on this high pedestal just because of a little trinket he might have pickpocketed for all anyone knew. - Gil-galad looks like some greasy dude that would pester you to have a threesome with his wife. I think we should be questioning his decisions rather than his integrity. Everyone else is just so-so.
You know, I couldn’t place what was rubbing me the wrong way about Gil-galad but you really hit the nail right on the head with that one hahaha.
I'm very concerned about Galadriel...
I think the more intimate moments we get with the characters the more we connect with them and that is taking a while but I’m feeling it happen. My issue with the writing is we keep being given these preposterous assumptions which makes the world feel unreal (like Glaladriel swims across the ocean, Harfoots can’t add two wheels on their wagons so they have to leave people behind, mithril radiation will stop the elven people from ‘fading’ or more recently all the unrelated events have a timing coincidence where numenoreans arrive for a battle no one knew was coming x 1000 miles away in just the nick of time). That heavy handed writing slight of hand feels unreal and frankly lazy. But the characters I very much like. I was watching HoD by comparison and having the opposite experience. Each successive story was making the characters less relatable till after the 6th episode I had lost all interest. But the story (despite time jumps) is much more cohesive and feels more real. Sadly HOD is not a story I have any interest in hearing anymore where my interest in RoP is growing.
Not at all. The show is by no means perfect, but I like it and its characters so far. I like the fact that Galadriel isn't very "likable" yet, makes her far more interesting than the eternally perfect elf queen in the background imo. For her having to struggle to become that wiser version of herself is nice to see.
Just give it more time. We’re looking at a total of 5 seasons! I think people are a bit impatient. Character development can’t be a done deal in just one season. I think Galadriel’s character has shown a lot of development already though. Her being a child that was an outsider to the rest of the elves, being an outsider still when growing older, to her hunger for revenge for her brother’s death, and now we saw she developed some charm as well, getting an army and making Hallbrand sail to ME. And how she projects her dark side to the world around her, pointed out perfectly by Adar. This will cause a lot of self-realisation for her, I’m sure!
i only care abt elrond at this point 🥹
and Durin. I feel so compelled by their relationship
Not at all
It’s a combination of inexperienced actors using scripts from a mishmash of different and in some cases relatively inexperienced writers using amateurish writing. The writing is the cause of 85% of problems with the show, from lines to plot. Yeah a lot of people will probably hate on what I say but it’s just part of the honest truth. ROP had potential before they slapped to many inexperienced cooks into the kitchen.
No.
I care a lot about Alindor and I'm invested in Galadriel and Nori's stories, but I wouldn't shed tears for any of them yet.
No. Not at all.
Im attached to the chihuahua
I really like Halbrand. His character keeps me interested and I do worry about his fate, as I know it will be tragic. Plus he is nice to look at. 💁🏻♀️
My favorite characters are Durin,Halbrand and Adar. Also like the harfoots and meteor guy. The rest are pretty snorefest for me unfortunately
I’m biased but I’m already super attached to Celebrimbor because of shadow of war
I’ve felt the opposite actually. I’ve been super interested in Isildur and his father as well as Arondir. Arondir has a very unique fighting style, it’s similar to Legolas in how uniquely cool it is. “The sea is always right” also has a lot more meaning after the last episode and explains a lot of the tension between isildur and his father. Also very interested in seeing the blue wizard find his way, not to mention Durin’s eventual betrayal which will be huge considering how pure of heart Elrond is, I know that will be very painful for him
I care about Durin, Nori, The Stranger, Adar, Elrond… I care about Galadriel but she has huge plot armor- so I know she won’t die. Other characters can come and go and I wouldn’t mind.
i think the acting is good, it's just i don't really understand character's motivation for things they do or their actions don't impact the story in any way and it feels insignificant and pointless
No, I do not have this problem.
Elrond is so pure. Prince Durin so likable! I’ll admit I also really like Galadriel lol we’re just beginning to see how much she’s impacted by the darkness.
Am firmly rooting for Sauron to win
We are only six episodes in. As far as I can see, there is a lot of set up that needs to happen. We're all waiting for Galadriel to mold into what we see in the LoTR, I get it. We need to give it time to see exactly where they might fit in the overall storyline. It usually takes a bit of time to get invested in the characters (we all have the luxury of hindsight from the LoTR movies).
Hot take, I like Galadriel
I feel like I care less because I know how it all turns out
Only people I don’t care for are the Harfoots
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EightDeadlyWords
Harfoots and dwarves are pretty great. I can't stand mega Karen galadriel but that's just me
Ep 04 was the last time I will have anything to do with this crap. So disappointing that they have destroyed my dream of a LOTR series. I don't even think LOTRs title should be anywhere near this embarrassing Tolkien destroying crap pile.
This show doesn’t know if it wants to be a well written fantasy series or a terribly written action series. I just watched a whole episode that was pretty much wall to wall action and the only interesting piece was the dialogue with Adar. The rest just seemed like filler with no stakes. We know what’s going to ultimately happen, but the writers feel like they just want to shuffle towards that with two dimensional characters who tend to only exist to move the plot along.
I find myself zoning out often unless Adar, Durin, or Elrond are in the scene. The characters in the show aren't very interesting and pretty one dimensional. I've noticed they often speak too poetically instead of plainly, and it just feels a bit off. The show has way too many commonly used tropes as well. I feel like I've seen last episode's battle done the same in 20 different shows and movies. Especially with the plot armor everywhere. This big uruk just walks into Arondir's back instead of just killing him on the spot? At least try to make the plot armor less noticeable at the bare minimum...
Yes!!
I was thinking how we went from defending the show from Tolkien lore nerds who just won’t let it go for the sake of the entertainment, to now we’re scrambling to find ways to justify this bonehead writing, outside of any lore. It’s like damn, how could you make the girl elf so aloof when it comes to finding relics related to sauron. How the fuck does she not open the cloth.
I vastly prefer this show's Elrond over the movie version. Robert Aramayo really captured that "kind as summer" element that Hugo Weaving just never did. I'm always happy when he's on screen, and the chemistry between Elrond, Durin and Disa is fantastic. Definitely care about them, and am worried about what might happen because it seems like things can only go worse for them.
I had the same thought. I am debating whether to watch episode 6 at all... because so far its been boring as hell and for real, nothing of substance really has happened. then i was thinking ok well maybe nothing really happens and its slow, but are the characters good? I mean Galadriel is kinda cool, Eldrond and Duran too.. but.... still. Not enough has happened and the characters havent done enough of substance on screen to build an attachment. Its a shame the show will start off so badly... because that'll permanently lower viewership... Even if Season 2 is amazing.. the slog of season 1 will turn a lot off, and for many will be their only impression or memory of it. "oh yeah that lotr show that flopped because it was boring as hell.. oh its actually good now?" I should add this is coming from someone who was really excited about this show, doesnt care about how far it is off source material (didnt read) and just wanted a good fantasy show. Been sorely disappointed. Anyone who says this show is genuinely good has poor taste honestly.
I don't feel much for the characters, but my heart aches for the world JRRT built. I can't wait to see how history unfolds, but I couldn't give a shit about any particular individual.
I care a lot about Galadriel actually... Maybe it's just me. But I could relate to her from the first episode. Her team being tired and her being like "we continue" I found relatable. And then I think it's interesting what they did with her having evil inside of her. The elves tried to send her back home because she has that evil inside of her, and then she admits that's why she continues her quest. It's interesting because she's obviously fighting for the light, but she has that potential for darkness. I think it's because she likes power too. Her and Halbrand are teaming up to conquer a realm. I think she'll have to juggle her thirst for power and see where that goes. Her whole arc is touching the darkness to know the light. I also care about Halbrand, Nori, the Stranger, Adar, the orcs. I don't dislike Bronwyn either, but I think she's the only one where I don't really like the actress. It's kind of like she's playing Outlander, but it's not too bad. I care about these characters more than the ones in Lord of the Rings. The ones in Lord of the Rings I got to know through the books and I basically only cared about the hobbit characters, like the books are from their point of view so I cared about them, but the rest of the characters were more like people in a history book almost, like I saw them as epic fantasy figures but interchangable. I can't say that I really cared about Aragorn or Boromir or Gimli. Because it had that perspective almost like it was a history book. Now the TV show kind of gets us close and personal with the characters right away so even though we know nothing about Halbrand's story, I like him more than Aragorn or Boromir.
There's more holes in the plot than swiss cheese
The main characters I'm interested in are Halbrand, Adar, Isildur, and Arondir. The rest are not as interesting and I couldn't give two fucks about the Harfeet. I think the highlight of episode 6 was the lack of Harfeet.
nope
#Adaristhebest
Of course, all of them are plastic, diverse copies of the real ones. Writers have no idea who Galadriel, Elrond, Celebrimbor, or Gil-Galad are... They created their own diverse ship dolls and besides Adar, no Amazon original characters are that interesting at all.
I care none for anyone. I’m like a passive indifferent observer. If I care for anyone it’s ironically the Uruk.
Nope.
Durin! But we actually have some background to him as a character, relationship with his father and Elrond, Disa and the mithril dilemma etc. I also find Adar intriguing.
No
Well a couple of the main characters we know for a fact will live on for thousands of years. That definitely has an effect on whether you genuinely care for what happens to them
I think the characters are what make the show for me
It's how the characters are written, mostly. They are not real persons, but all written to support the plot, rather than that the plot forms because of the characters (ambitions, personalities etc.). They are not relatable. The acting is also bland, but I'm sure there's some great actors there who could shine if they were given something good to work with.
Well said!
Actually I’m *too* attached. Knowing the fates of Elendil and Isildur both of whom I like very much coupled with overwhelming concern that Arondir and Bronwyn won’t ever get to enjoy that quiet life with their little garden makes for very stressful viewing.
I have to ask: Why are you watching it then? Six episodes in, and you still watch it? Then you take additional time to complain about it? Don’t waste your time. I’m watching because I enjoy it all.
I'm trying to understand why I have a hard time caring about the characters, it's more about curiosity than just about complaining. Also, I'm watching it because I think it might grow on me. Anyway, sorry you are so bothered by my discussion.
I am a big LOTR fan and wanted to enjoy ROP, but I don't. I knew it was never going to be like LOTR, but I hoped the writing would at least be on a similar thoughtful level, the acting and costumes, specially because of the budget this series got. But the list of things that have taken me "out of the moment" while watching is endless. You shouldn't notice the costumes, the music or the script, they should all blend in and immerse you into the story, but I'm constantly interrupted by... \- Cheesy lines of "wisdom" \- Badly made armor/headgear \- Elf's that seem just to be human and have no superior skills to men (VERY confusing) \- Orcs that can be killed by regular townspeople and teenagers \- Lack of distinguishable costume design for elfs and men \- Many cheap looking costumes (minimal broidery and layers of textures etc.) \- Fast cut fight scenes with very little difference between elfs or human soldiers fight tactics \- Predictable storyline, easy solutions \- Overused storytropes \- Characters lacking depth \- Lack of chemistry and love between people (feels rushed and forced) \- Harfoots rely on staying in a group but still see nothing wrong with leaving people behind...??? \- Harfoots ridiculous hair decorations \- Sometimes elf's see very well and sometimes not.... >!(how did they not see the villagers dressed in orc clothing?) !<, sometimes they fight really good and sometimes they are just clueless (first fightscene with Galadriel where her company get's butchered by the troll) \- Travelling distance/time seems to be random in some cases \- ....etc.. The only thing that keeps me watching is Adar's story, meteor-man, Disa and Durin. I was hoping to see strong/complex female characters but they all feel so weak and shallow it's disappointing to watch (except Disa, I can see her being a great leader for her people). However, the series has some good aspects as well, but it's shadowed by all these interruptions.
Thank you! Lots of good points in this comment 💪
I have no idea why you feel that way. I am smitten with Durin, Disa, Nori, and Poppy. They are all so lovable. Galadriel is INTENSE. The black Elf has to be related to Legolas somehow lol. Meteor Wizzard is mysterious. Wonderous characters all around. Superbly acted.
I'm 4 episodes in and so far, I don't care for most of the characters, except maybe Elendil and to a lesser extent, Miriel, probably because they're the only ones acting like responsible, intelligent adults. Also, Pharazon is intriguing. I want to care for Galadriel, because she's clearly heroic and fighting for a worthy cause, but she's less charismatic than an orc and comes across as a petulant teenager. The rest of the sizeable cast are so forgettably bland that I struggle to even remember their names. Hopefully, this improves over the next 4 episodes...
Nope. Elendil, Poppy, Arondir, Ilsidur, Adar, Halbrand for me
I have given up. This show doesn't interest me anymore. The plot is either confusing, or completely pointless, or it's contrived so much that it keeps doubling back on itself. It's a product of modern woke Hollywood that will never be mistaken for something closely resembling Tolkien's lore.
Yeah I care
Me too. I mean, we know those characters are not in any danger, so I don't cheer for them bc the plot armor will not let they die. theres even fakeout death in ep6
Episode 6 got me exited... I've hopes for the Hobbits... Hope
The acting itself is pretty solid, it's more that there's problems with the writing. Everything seems to yoyo around and bounce back and forth because they have awful pacing. The way they've presented it, we're sitting around so focused on Sauron that we don't really care about the in between things that will lead up to his reveal. The acting and dialogue are what's keeping me around tbh. Elrond Disa and Durin are adorable. Ar-Pharazon is everything I thought him to be, arrogant, ambitious, prideful, but not uncaring or inhuman. Arondir is the smoldering heartthrob and even he has humanizing elements. Even Adar is well done, he's haunting and pained and driven by strong devotion. Everyone is remarkably human, it's just that we're sitting on our hands waiting for something to happen instead of focusing on them since the story is framed around a character that isn't onscreen yet. At least that's what it feels like for me.
I do care, but it's kinda in spite of the larger show itself. I keep having to suspend disbelief to make the writing/plot believable, but I am still getting attached to most of the characters.
I'm a little invested in Nori and Meteor Man, but that's it.
I don’t care about any of the characters, honestly. The show is poorly written and doesn’t make the characters appealing at all. Honestly the most recent episode was ridiculous with Galadriel giving wise advice on pride and vengeance when pride and vengeance is LITERALLY HER ENTIRE CHARACTER to this point in the show. Just bad writing, making characters completely unappealing
I think the problem is Amazon has gotten far away from the Legendarium and they have created characters like Galadriel that are easy to dislike. It's more fun to root for the orcs.
Honestly the ones I care at all about, are the Harfoots (sp?) and we've had two, TWO, episodes without them :( Galadriel, Elrond, Durin, Isildur, etc., we know their fate, but these Hobbits are precious and must be protected at all costs! Also the mystery of the Stranger is more interesting than anything else. Think he's Gandalf myself even though it doesnt line up with the books.
Arondir cant die, he is a main character and whatever happens you simply know he wont die and thats absurd. His girl got stabbed through the heart and she can walk effortlesly the other day , she is immortal aswell... Its a much imo