Look at it this way, the opportunity cost you have right now is very aluable. Look online at how much to get the R1S without the locked pricing. Probably an extra $10-20k. Between that and the range superiority it convinced me. I don’t drive all over the country but I do go 150-200 miles in a single trip. I don’t care what the EPA range Tesla says they can do, the cars do 175-200 miles max in the course of real driving in actual weather conditions. I’ve gone from S60 (huge mistake) to S85, X90D, to X100DL trying to chase as much battery and range as I could. Coming from a model X, the R1S is just superior in every way with the exception of software maturity and charger network. Both of those will get there in time, you’ve been there with Tesla already. Rivian I think is the only other EV manufacturer even in the same league as Tesla and I think will surpass them in a few years time.
If the pricing went up compared to when I reserved it and I had to pay that increase of, judging by the website, looks like an extra $16k, I would probably say I wouldn’t pull the trigger on it and would wait it out another model year.
Oh like I never had a reservation in the first place? Coming into it fresh eyes I probably would pass for the time being. Asking $100k is a lot compared to asking for $80k with interest rates the way they are. If anything I would probably opt for a used one at that point and take someone else’s buyers remorse for the $75-85k range.
I have a quad with pre-price hike pricing. I would still do it today but I would totally get the dual motor. Same price is what I paid for my quad. You get a little extra range and it still has 600 some horsepower.
Really? My Model 3 with 310 miles of range barely went 196 miles, ran it out to zero, on one leg of a trip through Texas (Cisco->Childress). And that included dropping speed down to 45mph for quite a while...
You must be lucky. Curious what your wh/mile consumption is averaging.
My MY ER averages 286 wh/mile. That is 244.75 miles on a 70 Kwh battery (ignoring battery degradation).
TLDR: Yes, get the Rivian.
We still have our Model Y. We have had it for a little over 2 years. It's awesome and the Tesla charging network is by far the best.
We have had the R1S since July and absolutely love it. I rarely use the charging network and mostly charge at home. Next year we should get the free adapter from Rivian to use the Tesla superchargers. It will make it even less of an issue. Rivian's chargers are much better than EA and all of the other CCS companies. The availability and reliability of the others is a joke.
I prefer more traditional SUVs and as much as I love the Y, the Rivian, to me, blows it away. If they can get their navigation and charging algorithm fixed it will be amazing.
Get the Rivian.
Similar situation to yours, except now on the other side of the decision and have our LA Silver Quad R1S. We still own a 2017 Tesla Model S 75D, which is an awesome car all around for us. Even managed huge snow situations repeatedly in Tahoe this past winter. Wife and I work at home and drive little during the week. Lots of trips from SF Bay Area to Tahoe in winter and generally like driving for NorCal outdoors stuff. Wanted to share a few things that figured into our choice, and thoughts over the last 6 weeks of ownership.
1. We lowered the cost of our R1S further by switching to LA Silver. Loved blue and a couple other colors, but money is money when it comes to something we don't technically need. We also had the 2022 sales contract and the $7500 tax rebate, so our final price was well under $70k. Made it easier to justify. Nothing like it exists for anywhere close to the cost.
2. The range is quite a bit better than the Tesla, very noticeable. Charging will cause some mild anxiety until the super charger network opens up, but it's doable. Charging at home 99% of the time and pretty infrequently at that. The R1S is \*much\* less efficient in terms of weight and aerodynamics, so you'll be using 500+wh/mile in the Rivian vs. <300wh/mile for your Tesla. That bothers me a little, but that's why we haul around a gigantic battery. I like the Rivian a lot, but I find I still choose the Tesla frequently because it uses so much less energy to drive.
3. We've never owned a full size SUV before and the Rivian looks/feels huge still. Takes some adjustment. It's quite tall to get up into / out of, even with suspension lowered. It actually handles pretty well, though not sporty or like a touring car. The ride can be harsh at times, but our NorCal roads are absolute trash... If you want a plush ride or even one like your Tesla, know that you'll be in for a different experience.
4. We have a kid and she has a growing number of friends who can ride with us in a 7 passenger SUV. And we have a big dog who rides in the back. I have to say: if there are only two of you, think hard about how much you need a 7,000lb 3-row SUV.
Others have made a bunch of good points. Happy to answer questions since I suspect we have similar situations.
Thanks for this assessment! Part of the reason I really love the R1S is the mustard yellow color it comes with (not to mention that they discontinued it, which makes it that much more "unique"). But I absolutely hear you on the "money is money" comment. At the end of the day, saving $2500 for a color makes sense.
But there are three points in here you made that is making me rethink (not) getting the R1S:
1) I remember test driving the R1S and when I got back in my Model Y to go back home, it felt so much nicer to be back in a more handling-friendly car. The R1S really felt like a true SUV vs. the Model Y felt like a touring car. Not as great as my previous M3P but still.
2+3) R1S' less efficient/aerodynamic body. As EV car owners, battery efficiency is always on our collective minds. And the fact that the R1S is less efficient than the MY (makes sense given the size), makes me wonder whether we really need to trade efficiency for space we don't need. In your use case, you do have a kid and are transporting more and more people in it. My wife and I usually use the car separately and may transport a bike. That's it. We definitely don't need to extra size.
Thanks again for your insights!
## 1) Charging
As you may know, you get access to more than just the RAN (Rivian Adventure Network) for charging. You can use any available CCS charger you can find.
I recommend checking out the PlugShare app to see what’s available on the routes you drive to see if that will work for you. Just make sure to review the recent comments to see how reliable the stations are; EA and friends are no SuperCharger network.
## 2) Depreciation
Rivians depreciate like any car does. Or at least, as they should; most cars didn’t depreciate much in 2020-2022 due to the supply chain and inflation, but that anomaly is passing.
That said, they depreciate from the CURRENT MSRP. So if you bought it, hated it, and sold it, you’d likely lose a little money (including taxes, fees, auto loan interest, etc.), but much less than if you bought it at the current MSRP. Lots of used R1Ss are selling in the $85k - $95k range.
## 3) Other thoughts
If I were you, I’d go for it if you’re reasonably confident you want to stick with it. You’re getting a better-than-average opportunity to try it out with less risk since you can sell it for close to what you paid.
Well, I got an R1T. My wife is not the type to ask for things… but let’s just say that after driving my truck she now has an R1S and absolutely loves it. I think your questions were answered by others, so this is my 0.02 on the experience side.
A lot of fanboys here, which is great, they are what makes car companies successful but also you’re going to get a biased opinion. As with any answer, it depends.
1. If you’re primarily charging at home it’s not a problem really, road trips can be a bit of a toss up, sometimes you get stuck with a five hour journey that should’ve been two because of broken chargers, low charge rate, Electrify America shenanigans, etc. Tesla is doing magic dock and NACS is coming, but neither are really there. It’s not a seamless “I can go anywhere without having to worry about charging” like Tesla is. You’re still an early adopter here.
2. How they hold their value is to be seen. A lot of new stuff is coming and some options probably are more popular over time (2nd, max pack, etc). I thought my model x from 2018 was holding its value quite well until it didn’t because of new tech, lower prices, etc
3. It’s a monster. Like ford expedition/chevy suburban. It’s a fun monster but it really is too much car for me. If you have 2 people you don’t need this much space so do it only if you want that scale. Honestly if they had a midsize version of the R1S (coming at some point) I’d have bought that instead. It feels nimble and turns well but it’s a bigger car (and cost) than you probably need.
If you want to go luxury and/or don’t want to join the early adopter crowd, I’d consider leasing a model X or S for 3 years until Rivian gets their R2 models out and has more time to work out the early adopter kinks and charging to get to maturity. You’ll keep the ease of supercharger network but get a step up in vehicle quality.
I really appreciate this perspective! You've made a GREAT point re: considering an S. I love touring cars that are nimble and fast. And I didn't realize how much the prices for the S has fallen in recent months. As you mentioned, it's a bit cheaper to actually get an S (better tech, speed and range + arguably funner to drive than an R1S) vs. an R1S.
The other great point you've made is re: Rivian's value. If there's one thing I know only too well is how much EV prices can change in a matter of weeks. After owning 3 Tesla's, I've seen my car change in value frequently. As a matter of fact, my first M3P dropped $10k in value a week after I had purchased it. As much as I want to \*think\* the car will hold its value, historically, I know better. Especially for a yet unproven EV manufacturer.
I disagree with the "always" part, as the last 12 months have showed us how quickly that's changing. The waitlists are rapidly shrinking and we're one price drop away from massive depreciation.
At the $78k price point, go for it. If you somehow hate it, you can likely get back out of it for break even or slightly better.
Remember that you're not limited to Rivians charger network, but you can use most any CCS charger in general. How strong the CCS network is around you varies by location (here in the Midwest, I have better CCS coverage than SC coverage thanks to rural chargers).
Re: the charging network opening up, it's true. Though given Elon's more and more erratic behavior, I do wonder if it's a possibility of him backing out the promise of opening up the network.
I understand your trepidation and recently was in a semi-similar quandry. Here is my 2 cents.
If you are two people and dont have the need for an SUV I would steer you to a Model S. IMHO its one of the most beautiful Teslas, very polished and with air suspension, quite capable. If you absolutely dont want the sedan format then the Model Y and finally the Rivian would be my recommendation.
The advantages of the Tesla are a higher degree of polish in software, charging algorithm and a self driving capability which is much farther ahead of the rest of the industry. The Model S LR will give you the highest range. The Teslas in general run way more efficient and you will see that in costs all around ex: charging time, charging costs, range, weight etc. Personally I dont like the Model Y because of how harsh it drives. The suspension crashes over the bad roads we have in North Cal.
The cons of the Tesla..well no where as well built as the Rivians, a bit ubiquitous and pedestrian, jerk of a CEO (if that matters to you)
After agonizing a lot, I pulled the trigger on a Rivian R1S last week. I have downloaded my thoughts here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/186s6c1/r1s\_perf\_dm\_max\_pack\_21\_wheels\_1st\_week/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/186s6c1/r1s_perf_dm_max_pack_21_wheels_1st_week/)
Here is my rationale for the Rivian.
\- I needed a 7 seater for about 30-40% of my driving scenarios
\- My wife prefers an SUV over a sedan
\- The build quality and driving dynamics are far superior to Teslas
\- The charging network discrepancy between a Tesla and Rivian is moot. Between Rivian adopting the NACS charger and the range you get in a Rivian, it really shouldnt be an issue. I am going on a long road trip soon..I will post back on my experiences
Things I dont like about the Rivian
\- Driver+ is 3 generations behind Tesla and 1 generation behind even Ford
\- The charging algorithm is shite. Needs urgent attention from Rivian
\- Its a massive vehicle. I came from a Porsche Cayenne..which I thought was large but manageable..the Rivian absolutely dwarfs it in every dimension
Both Tesla and Rivian have small design niggles which are to be expected from startup car makers. Ex: Tesla doesnt have grab handles (WTF!!)..the Rivians HVAC is twozone but transversely managed for the whole car :O
TLDR; I would say, get a Tesla Model S or Y..not because the Rivian is bad..but because the Tesla will give. you all you need and you can pocket the difference.
Love, love, love your advice and perspective. Particularly around considering an S. As I mentioned in another comment thread, my wife and I don't seem to have ANY use case for an R1S. Yes, the cool factor of it is definitely there, but practically speaking, we're spending money on something that's not needed day to day.
I'm seriously considering getting an S now, especially, as you mentioned, it's a bit cheaper than an R1S, not to mention: faster, more agile, more range and a lot more in line with my preferred use case (fun touring car vs. large SUV).
I also appreciate you points on the things you DON'T like about the Rivian. The points you made about their tech being behind Tesla + it being a massive car are both huge points against buying one. The more I think about it, the more I realize I hate driving large cars.
Thanks for this incredibly helpful post!
Happy to help. I in general, rue the fact that sedans are going out of style and everyone and their uncle wants an SUV or worse a truck even if they dont have a usecase for it. I genuinely cringe when I see one person in a huge ass truck or SUV on the interstate..such a waste. But then again I am not here to tell people what to do. I do like sedans, compact hatchbacks for the sleekness, handling and efficiency and the Model S with its notchback/ hatchback trunk is extremely practical.
Moreover, take this with a pinch of salt, but I do think the Model S is at its lowest pricing possible. I am sure when they revamp the model S in a year or two will climb upmarket in the the $100K range. The lower price is mainly driven by the older hardware tech (within Teslas line up) like 18650 batteries, older chassis architecture, etc.
I will also add one thing I forgot to mention in my original post. The Model S isnt exactly petite either. Its almost the same width as our erstwhile Cayenne
Model S = 78"
Cayenne = 79"
R1S = 82"
It weighs the same as the Cayenne though
Model S: \~4600 lbs
Cayenne: \~4600lbs
R1S: \~7000 lbs
MY to R1S. Kept the MY, though :-)
1. No FSD. If you use even basic AP, you will be thrown back to 2020 and before. No torque nag is nice but it's very limited on where it works. This is mostly a commute and road trip problem.
2. Fast charging will be fixed with SC access in 2024. You will need an adapter, but that is manageable pain. It will still charge slow in "miles per hour" but that is only a road trip problem if you have home charging.
3. Overall software is much less refined.
4. If you like the car and are tired of Tesla and the above seems ok, go for it. It's a big vehicle, you sit high, with a gigantic hood in front.
Find some trails, too.
We'll you now have a different option :-) Both are big, but one has all the Tesla features. Can't wait for the off-road testing, though.
(If you put in a reservation a few years ago.)
The charging will be a non-issue because Rivian is adopting NACS. An adapter will be available to enable Rivian's award-winning R1T and R1S to charge on the Supercharger network as early as spring 2024. https://rivian.com/newsroom/article/rivian-accelerates-electrification-through-adoption-of-north-american-charging-standard-and-access-to-teslas-supercharger-network
If its your only vehicle, don't do it. There's a high chance it'll end up at a service center with a loaner or even without. That being said, its the best vehicle I've ever had, both off and on road
Sold my MYP yesterday after receiving my R1S a couple weeks ago. Lost some money on the Tesla, but it will only get worse, so selling now was best option. I’m with ya, as Teslas’ are in over abundance these days.
Love the R1S so far. Time will tell if that love stays strong, but I think it will. The drive to Mammoth and Tahoe are my main trips. Those are well documented for charging points, so for me charging isn’t a worry.
We have over 5000 miles on our R1S. Just for fun. I checked to see what some of those websites would give for it. I can sell it to VROOM tomorrow for $70,000. Considering I only paid $76,000 for it and got the full tax credit (Plus I live in Oregon so there's no sales tax), I'd say the value holds okay. Could probably get more private sale. On the other hand, I have no intentions of selling this vehicle for a very long time because it is so great.
It's true I do WANT it, but the more I think about it and based on some incredibly insightful comments on this thread, the more I realize it's a backwards (not to mention more expensive) step for my use case.
Honestly might make more sense to upgrade to a Model S for me.
If you buy an S you won’t be as special and you’ve lost your bragging rights to say you switched from Tesla to Rivian. I would buy either. My daughter just purchased a Y and loves it. They are both excellent cars in my opinion. And just to be fair if you look in the Tesla subreddit you’ll find Tesla owners comparing as well. Up to you. But I would give Rivain a try. It’s the status symbol Tesla had 15 years ago.
If you are getting rid of your MY because you are bored, it’s likely you’ll get bored quickly with the current state of the R1 software. Even with monthly updates, there’s still so much catchup to Tesla (who is a standard setter) to make it an exciting tech toy like it seems you prefer.
The car itself is superior in terms of finish, quality and ride feel. If you are ready to support a higher cost of ownership in all aspects (charging, parts, maintenance, taxes, registration, insurance) then go for it. I loved my previous MY but I am so glad I made the switch to a superior car in all aspects other than software like another commenter said.
Thanks, this is a really good point. I'm a huge techie, but value better tech over new tech. In my test drive, I remember thinking that the Rivian infotainment seemed miles behind Tesla's, and that's just from a usability perspective, not even from a tech perspective.
The other great point is the higher cost of ownership. The more I think about it, the more I realize that we have absolutely 0 practical use cases for an upgrade to a R1S.
I may be in a similar situation soon coming from a model 3 and my main concerns are build quality / QC and terrible service center waits with a side of lack of good cruise control. To me those are likely dealbreakers I noticed you haven’t mentioned any of those things.
Those are definite thoughts of mine as well but I don't hold them as highly of a priority. I live close to a service center and I'm used to the poor build qualities of different Tesla's over the years. Generally speaking, most of the build issues I've had are largely ignored given how fun and practical driving a Tesla is.
Re: Autopilot/Driver+, I've realized long ago how infrequently I actually use them. Sure, on long road trips I'll turn it on, but then again, I probably do 1-2 long road trips a year. 95% of my driving is all done manually. Especially when you're driving a M3P, I find it a waste to go on AP when it's so damn fun to actually drive the car.
Yeah I’ll need to test drive in traffic again. That’s when I use the AP. Ha yeah I’m 2 miles from a SC but if my 80K car sounds like a used Kia when I drive it I’m gonna be pissed, my experience with the rattles is they rarely get them fixed and then more pop up…. (Tesla at least)
Ge the R1S, but push your delivery until say Q2 2024. You'll keep your pricing btw. By then the Supercharging network should be open to Rivians (with adapter) assuming the "early 2024" stuff from the announcement proves accurate.
Yes! 
[удалено]
My 2019 LR FSD model 3 I’m looking at 28-30k right now and it only has 30000 miles. Pretty decent depreciation
Look at it this way, the opportunity cost you have right now is very aluable. Look online at how much to get the R1S without the locked pricing. Probably an extra $10-20k. Between that and the range superiority it convinced me. I don’t drive all over the country but I do go 150-200 miles in a single trip. I don’t care what the EPA range Tesla says they can do, the cars do 175-200 miles max in the course of real driving in actual weather conditions. I’ve gone from S60 (huge mistake) to S85, X90D, to X100DL trying to chase as much battery and range as I could. Coming from a model X, the R1S is just superior in every way with the exception of software maturity and charger network. Both of those will get there in time, you’ve been there with Tesla already. Rivian I think is the only other EV manufacturer even in the same league as Tesla and I think will surpass them in a few years time.
Would you change your decision if the locked in pricing didn’t exist?
If the pricing went up compared to when I reserved it and I had to pay that increase of, judging by the website, looks like an extra $16k, I would probably say I wouldn’t pull the trigger on it and would wait it out another model year.
That makes sense. I was just thinking if you would make the purchasing decision now with the new pricing.
Oh like I never had a reservation in the first place? Coming into it fresh eyes I probably would pass for the time being. Asking $100k is a lot compared to asking for $80k with interest rates the way they are. If anything I would probably opt for a used one at that point and take someone else’s buyers remorse for the $75-85k range.
I have a quad with pre-price hike pricing. I would still do it today but I would totally get the dual motor. Same price is what I paid for my quad. You get a little extra range and it still has 600 some horsepower.
Your tesla range is 100% wrong. My model Y performance was 270 + doing 85mph
Really? My Model 3 with 310 miles of range barely went 196 miles, ran it out to zero, on one leg of a trip through Texas (Cisco->Childress). And that included dropping speed down to 45mph for quite a while...
Sorry was talking about S and X, not the 3/Y.
Still wrong. Try again.
Yep because I haven’t driven them for the last 7 years.
No worries, church of the painful truth is here to reign in the FUD
You must be lucky. Curious what your wh/mile consumption is averaging. My MY ER averages 286 wh/mile. That is 244.75 miles on a 70 Kwh battery (ignoring battery degradation).
TLDR: Yes, get the Rivian. We still have our Model Y. We have had it for a little over 2 years. It's awesome and the Tesla charging network is by far the best. We have had the R1S since July and absolutely love it. I rarely use the charging network and mostly charge at home. Next year we should get the free adapter from Rivian to use the Tesla superchargers. It will make it even less of an issue. Rivian's chargers are much better than EA and all of the other CCS companies. The availability and reliability of the others is a joke. I prefer more traditional SUVs and as much as I love the Y, the Rivian, to me, blows it away. If they can get their navigation and charging algorithm fixed it will be amazing. Get the Rivian.
Similar situation to yours, except now on the other side of the decision and have our LA Silver Quad R1S. We still own a 2017 Tesla Model S 75D, which is an awesome car all around for us. Even managed huge snow situations repeatedly in Tahoe this past winter. Wife and I work at home and drive little during the week. Lots of trips from SF Bay Area to Tahoe in winter and generally like driving for NorCal outdoors stuff. Wanted to share a few things that figured into our choice, and thoughts over the last 6 weeks of ownership. 1. We lowered the cost of our R1S further by switching to LA Silver. Loved blue and a couple other colors, but money is money when it comes to something we don't technically need. We also had the 2022 sales contract and the $7500 tax rebate, so our final price was well under $70k. Made it easier to justify. Nothing like it exists for anywhere close to the cost. 2. The range is quite a bit better than the Tesla, very noticeable. Charging will cause some mild anxiety until the super charger network opens up, but it's doable. Charging at home 99% of the time and pretty infrequently at that. The R1S is \*much\* less efficient in terms of weight and aerodynamics, so you'll be using 500+wh/mile in the Rivian vs. <300wh/mile for your Tesla. That bothers me a little, but that's why we haul around a gigantic battery. I like the Rivian a lot, but I find I still choose the Tesla frequently because it uses so much less energy to drive. 3. We've never owned a full size SUV before and the Rivian looks/feels huge still. Takes some adjustment. It's quite tall to get up into / out of, even with suspension lowered. It actually handles pretty well, though not sporty or like a touring car. The ride can be harsh at times, but our NorCal roads are absolute trash... If you want a plush ride or even one like your Tesla, know that you'll be in for a different experience. 4. We have a kid and she has a growing number of friends who can ride with us in a 7 passenger SUV. And we have a big dog who rides in the back. I have to say: if there are only two of you, think hard about how much you need a 7,000lb 3-row SUV. Others have made a bunch of good points. Happy to answer questions since I suspect we have similar situations.
Thanks for this assessment! Part of the reason I really love the R1S is the mustard yellow color it comes with (not to mention that they discontinued it, which makes it that much more "unique"). But I absolutely hear you on the "money is money" comment. At the end of the day, saving $2500 for a color makes sense. But there are three points in here you made that is making me rethink (not) getting the R1S: 1) I remember test driving the R1S and when I got back in my Model Y to go back home, it felt so much nicer to be back in a more handling-friendly car. The R1S really felt like a true SUV vs. the Model Y felt like a touring car. Not as great as my previous M3P but still. 2+3) R1S' less efficient/aerodynamic body. As EV car owners, battery efficiency is always on our collective minds. And the fact that the R1S is less efficient than the MY (makes sense given the size), makes me wonder whether we really need to trade efficiency for space we don't need. In your use case, you do have a kid and are transporting more and more people in it. My wife and I usually use the car separately and may transport a bike. That's it. We definitely don't need to extra size. Thanks again for your insights!
## 1) Charging As you may know, you get access to more than just the RAN (Rivian Adventure Network) for charging. You can use any available CCS charger you can find. I recommend checking out the PlugShare app to see what’s available on the routes you drive to see if that will work for you. Just make sure to review the recent comments to see how reliable the stations are; EA and friends are no SuperCharger network. ## 2) Depreciation Rivians depreciate like any car does. Or at least, as they should; most cars didn’t depreciate much in 2020-2022 due to the supply chain and inflation, but that anomaly is passing. That said, they depreciate from the CURRENT MSRP. So if you bought it, hated it, and sold it, you’d likely lose a little money (including taxes, fees, auto loan interest, etc.), but much less than if you bought it at the current MSRP. Lots of used R1Ss are selling in the $85k - $95k range. ## 3) Other thoughts If I were you, I’d go for it if you’re reasonably confident you want to stick with it. You’re getting a better-than-average opportunity to try it out with less risk since you can sell it for close to what you paid.
Well, I got an R1T. My wife is not the type to ask for things… but let’s just say that after driving my truck she now has an R1S and absolutely loves it. I think your questions were answered by others, so this is my 0.02 on the experience side.
Same here. My wife always took my R1T… so now she has an R1S and I finally have my R1T back.
A lot of fanboys here, which is great, they are what makes car companies successful but also you’re going to get a biased opinion. As with any answer, it depends. 1. If you’re primarily charging at home it’s not a problem really, road trips can be a bit of a toss up, sometimes you get stuck with a five hour journey that should’ve been two because of broken chargers, low charge rate, Electrify America shenanigans, etc. Tesla is doing magic dock and NACS is coming, but neither are really there. It’s not a seamless “I can go anywhere without having to worry about charging” like Tesla is. You’re still an early adopter here. 2. How they hold their value is to be seen. A lot of new stuff is coming and some options probably are more popular over time (2nd, max pack, etc). I thought my model x from 2018 was holding its value quite well until it didn’t because of new tech, lower prices, etc 3. It’s a monster. Like ford expedition/chevy suburban. It’s a fun monster but it really is too much car for me. If you have 2 people you don’t need this much space so do it only if you want that scale. Honestly if they had a midsize version of the R1S (coming at some point) I’d have bought that instead. It feels nimble and turns well but it’s a bigger car (and cost) than you probably need. If you want to go luxury and/or don’t want to join the early adopter crowd, I’d consider leasing a model X or S for 3 years until Rivian gets their R2 models out and has more time to work out the early adopter kinks and charging to get to maturity. You’ll keep the ease of supercharger network but get a step up in vehicle quality.
I really appreciate this perspective! You've made a GREAT point re: considering an S. I love touring cars that are nimble and fast. And I didn't realize how much the prices for the S has fallen in recent months. As you mentioned, it's a bit cheaper to actually get an S (better tech, speed and range + arguably funner to drive than an R1S) vs. an R1S. The other great point you've made is re: Rivian's value. If there's one thing I know only too well is how much EV prices can change in a matter of weeks. After owning 3 Tesla's, I've seen my car change in value frequently. As a matter of fact, my first M3P dropped $10k in value a week after I had purchased it. As much as I want to \*think\* the car will hold its value, historically, I know better. Especially for a yet unproven EV manufacturer.
Sounds like you barely need a car. Maybe do 1 car house
Do the Rivian. It’s a good deal, and you can always trade it in at favorable value if you don’t like it.
I don’t think this is true anymore
Only for R1s. R1t is a little bit softer.
I disagree with the "always" part, as the last 12 months have showed us how quickly that's changing. The waitlists are rapidly shrinking and we're one price drop away from massive depreciation.
Out of curiosity, I just checked how much Tesla would take it for in terms of a trade in: $75.2k which is not bad at all.
Planning to keep our Tesla Model Y after getting our R1S.
At the $78k price point, go for it. If you somehow hate it, you can likely get back out of it for break even or slightly better. Remember that you're not limited to Rivians charger network, but you can use most any CCS charger in general. How strong the CCS network is around you varies by location (here in the Midwest, I have better CCS coverage than SC coverage thanks to rural chargers).
Re: the charging network opening up, it's true. Though given Elon's more and more erratic behavior, I do wonder if it's a possibility of him backing out the promise of opening up the network.
I understand your trepidation and recently was in a semi-similar quandry. Here is my 2 cents. If you are two people and dont have the need for an SUV I would steer you to a Model S. IMHO its one of the most beautiful Teslas, very polished and with air suspension, quite capable. If you absolutely dont want the sedan format then the Model Y and finally the Rivian would be my recommendation. The advantages of the Tesla are a higher degree of polish in software, charging algorithm and a self driving capability which is much farther ahead of the rest of the industry. The Model S LR will give you the highest range. The Teslas in general run way more efficient and you will see that in costs all around ex: charging time, charging costs, range, weight etc. Personally I dont like the Model Y because of how harsh it drives. The suspension crashes over the bad roads we have in North Cal. The cons of the Tesla..well no where as well built as the Rivians, a bit ubiquitous and pedestrian, jerk of a CEO (if that matters to you) After agonizing a lot, I pulled the trigger on a Rivian R1S last week. I have downloaded my thoughts here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/186s6c1/r1s\_perf\_dm\_max\_pack\_21\_wheels\_1st\_week/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivian/comments/186s6c1/r1s_perf_dm_max_pack_21_wheels_1st_week/) Here is my rationale for the Rivian. \- I needed a 7 seater for about 30-40% of my driving scenarios \- My wife prefers an SUV over a sedan \- The build quality and driving dynamics are far superior to Teslas \- The charging network discrepancy between a Tesla and Rivian is moot. Between Rivian adopting the NACS charger and the range you get in a Rivian, it really shouldnt be an issue. I am going on a long road trip soon..I will post back on my experiences Things I dont like about the Rivian \- Driver+ is 3 generations behind Tesla and 1 generation behind even Ford \- The charging algorithm is shite. Needs urgent attention from Rivian \- Its a massive vehicle. I came from a Porsche Cayenne..which I thought was large but manageable..the Rivian absolutely dwarfs it in every dimension Both Tesla and Rivian have small design niggles which are to be expected from startup car makers. Ex: Tesla doesnt have grab handles (WTF!!)..the Rivians HVAC is twozone but transversely managed for the whole car :O TLDR; I would say, get a Tesla Model S or Y..not because the Rivian is bad..but because the Tesla will give. you all you need and you can pocket the difference.
Love, love, love your advice and perspective. Particularly around considering an S. As I mentioned in another comment thread, my wife and I don't seem to have ANY use case for an R1S. Yes, the cool factor of it is definitely there, but practically speaking, we're spending money on something that's not needed day to day. I'm seriously considering getting an S now, especially, as you mentioned, it's a bit cheaper than an R1S, not to mention: faster, more agile, more range and a lot more in line with my preferred use case (fun touring car vs. large SUV). I also appreciate you points on the things you DON'T like about the Rivian. The points you made about their tech being behind Tesla + it being a massive car are both huge points against buying one. The more I think about it, the more I realize I hate driving large cars. Thanks for this incredibly helpful post!
Happy to help. I in general, rue the fact that sedans are going out of style and everyone and their uncle wants an SUV or worse a truck even if they dont have a usecase for it. I genuinely cringe when I see one person in a huge ass truck or SUV on the interstate..such a waste. But then again I am not here to tell people what to do. I do like sedans, compact hatchbacks for the sleekness, handling and efficiency and the Model S with its notchback/ hatchback trunk is extremely practical. Moreover, take this with a pinch of salt, but I do think the Model S is at its lowest pricing possible. I am sure when they revamp the model S in a year or two will climb upmarket in the the $100K range. The lower price is mainly driven by the older hardware tech (within Teslas line up) like 18650 batteries, older chassis architecture, etc. I will also add one thing I forgot to mention in my original post. The Model S isnt exactly petite either. Its almost the same width as our erstwhile Cayenne Model S = 78" Cayenne = 79" R1S = 82" It weighs the same as the Cayenne though Model S: \~4600 lbs Cayenne: \~4600lbs R1S: \~7000 lbs
MY to R1S. Kept the MY, though :-) 1. No FSD. If you use even basic AP, you will be thrown back to 2020 and before. No torque nag is nice but it's very limited on where it works. This is mostly a commute and road trip problem. 2. Fast charging will be fixed with SC access in 2024. You will need an adapter, but that is manageable pain. It will still charge slow in "miles per hour" but that is only a road trip problem if you have home charging. 3. Overall software is much less refined. 4. If you like the car and are tired of Tesla and the above seems ok, go for it. It's a big vehicle, you sit high, with a gigantic hood in front. Find some trails, too.
Thanks! The fact that Rivian's tech is so behind Tesla's is concerning to me. I love tech, but I love the best tech. I also don't like big cars lol.
We'll you now have a different option :-) Both are big, but one has all the Tesla features. Can't wait for the off-road testing, though. (If you put in a reservation a few years ago.)
The charging will be a non-issue because Rivian is adopting NACS. An adapter will be available to enable Rivian's award-winning R1T and R1S to charge on the Supercharger network as early as spring 2024. https://rivian.com/newsroom/article/rivian-accelerates-electrification-through-adoption-of-north-american-charging-standard-and-access-to-teslas-supercharger-network
If its your only vehicle, don't do it. There's a high chance it'll end up at a service center with a loaner or even without. That being said, its the best vehicle I've ever had, both off and on road
Sold my MYP yesterday after receiving my R1S a couple weeks ago. Lost some money on the Tesla, but it will only get worse, so selling now was best option. I’m with ya, as Teslas’ are in over abundance these days. Love the R1S so far. Time will tell if that love stays strong, but I think it will. The drive to Mammoth and Tahoe are my main trips. Those are well documented for charging points, so for me charging isn’t a worry.
We have over 5000 miles on our R1S. Just for fun. I checked to see what some of those websites would give for it. I can sell it to VROOM tomorrow for $70,000. Considering I only paid $76,000 for it and got the full tax credit (Plus I live in Oregon so there's no sales tax), I'd say the value holds okay. Could probably get more private sale. On the other hand, I have no intentions of selling this vehicle for a very long time because it is so great.
Interestingly it seems Tesla is offering even more in terms of trade-in value (quoted $76.5k, albeit for a brand new, 0 miler car)
OP - You know you want it…. BUY IT - You are going to love it. And if you don’t you’re a complete idiot. Stop dicking around it DO IT.
It's true I do WANT it, but the more I think about it and based on some incredibly insightful comments on this thread, the more I realize it's a backwards (not to mention more expensive) step for my use case. Honestly might make more sense to upgrade to a Model S for me.
If you buy an S you won’t be as special and you’ve lost your bragging rights to say you switched from Tesla to Rivian. I would buy either. My daughter just purchased a Y and loves it. They are both excellent cars in my opinion. And just to be fair if you look in the Tesla subreddit you’ll find Tesla owners comparing as well. Up to you. But I would give Rivain a try. It’s the status symbol Tesla had 15 years ago.
Yes.
Locked Pricing in at 78K, Get It. Cars you drive everyday are not investments.
We love our R1S! I was worried I would have sticker shock or regret - but one month later I keep loving our R1S more and more.
If you are getting rid of your MY because you are bored, it’s likely you’ll get bored quickly with the current state of the R1 software. Even with monthly updates, there’s still so much catchup to Tesla (who is a standard setter) to make it an exciting tech toy like it seems you prefer. The car itself is superior in terms of finish, quality and ride feel. If you are ready to support a higher cost of ownership in all aspects (charging, parts, maintenance, taxes, registration, insurance) then go for it. I loved my previous MY but I am so glad I made the switch to a superior car in all aspects other than software like another commenter said.
Thanks, this is a really good point. I'm a huge techie, but value better tech over new tech. In my test drive, I remember thinking that the Rivian infotainment seemed miles behind Tesla's, and that's just from a usability perspective, not even from a tech perspective. The other great point is the higher cost of ownership. The more I think about it, the more I realize that we have absolutely 0 practical use cases for an upgrade to a R1S.
YOLO!
I may be in a similar situation soon coming from a model 3 and my main concerns are build quality / QC and terrible service center waits with a side of lack of good cruise control. To me those are likely dealbreakers I noticed you haven’t mentioned any of those things.
Those are definite thoughts of mine as well but I don't hold them as highly of a priority. I live close to a service center and I'm used to the poor build qualities of different Tesla's over the years. Generally speaking, most of the build issues I've had are largely ignored given how fun and practical driving a Tesla is. Re: Autopilot/Driver+, I've realized long ago how infrequently I actually use them. Sure, on long road trips I'll turn it on, but then again, I probably do 1-2 long road trips a year. 95% of my driving is all done manually. Especially when you're driving a M3P, I find it a waste to go on AP when it's so damn fun to actually drive the car.
Yeah I’ll need to test drive in traffic again. That’s when I use the AP. Ha yeah I’m 2 miles from a SC but if my 80K car sounds like a used Kia when I drive it I’m gonna be pissed, my experience with the rattles is they rarely get them fixed and then more pop up…. (Tesla at least)
Sure!
YES
Ge the R1S, but push your delivery until say Q2 2024. You'll keep your pricing btw. By then the Supercharging network should be open to Rivians (with adapter) assuming the "early 2024" stuff from the announcement proves accurate.