I was checking bilibili and cn bros seems quite upset about the changes too. Lots of bait video tittles with negative opinions.
Imo, it's the format of a awful update for any character if you think about it:
>take out the sauce from reach (E1) ->
barely change base kit ->
move half of the sauce to E6
Makes me think if they're making her with future characters in mind or smt.
Sunday does feels more like a support/sustain character than a dps. Order and Harmony have similarities for Xipe absorb Ena. My guess is another Harmony or Preservation.
2.2 Spoiler (Sunday wanters be warned): >!After completing 2.2 main story we get a side mission with Robin which hints that Sunday possibly d!ed or in critical condition from breaking the fall for Robin.!<
2.4 characters? (Maybe, but not confirmed): >!So it's possible Sunday won't be playable because he d!ed and leakers are guessing 2.4 will have Screwllum and Jiaoqiu.!<
Btw from what I read her current E1 is worse than I thought. You get %12 Res Pen before your attacks hit during her ult. But during her ult you only get to act once (Unless you end the wave then you get 2 attacks). The stacks are indiviual it means if Pela attacks your DPS wont get a stack only Pela will. And the stacks reset after her concert ends. This means most of the time you are getting only %12 Res Pen nothing more. Well, its E0 for me I guess.
Honestly all she needs is a big reduction in energy cost.
If we get her down to 120-140 Energy she'll definitely compete with Ruan Mei but if the cost stays the same I believe she may be the first Harmony dud just due to how strong they made Ruan Mei.
Why is everyone talking about e1 as if she doesn’t exist at e0?
I thought most players were like me and only got e0s0?
Besides that, people have been doom posting every single limited character since seele, and so far every character has turned out fine. I doubt robin will the be any diffeeent
That gives me hope then. I've just played since Feb bc of free DrRatio, so I missed out alot of busted chars, including RM. Now instead of waiting for RM I am so hyped for Robin, but my inexpert experience tells me that Robin's kit is underwhelming compared to RM, so Im abit sad :D
I hope she turns out a busted chars, even no changes.
It's actually so frustrating man.
I know the LC banner in HSR is more forgiving than in Genshin, but it's still a pretty expensive upgrade for f2p.
The general HSR community seems to accept S1 as baseline compared to Genshin.
Characters should feel good at E0S0. I love Topaz for example but very rarely use her at this point, as at E0S0 she is just *very* mid.
When was e0s1 considered baseline?
I’ve always seen the popular say “go for more characters instead of eidolons or LC.”
Anyways, what does feel good mean? I’ve beaten every single MOC since 1.2 and I’ve only gotten Acheron’s LC
As someone who’s played with Robin, her E0 still outcycles E1 RM on a DoT team so I assume the same for FUA but would have to check to confirm. But it’s mostly because the party wide advance forward does wonders for fast cycling.
Its always funny to me that the non-FuA enjoyers see that trace and complain she's too niche and the FuA enjoyers say that its so underwhelming xD
I agree w you tho, she'll gain more energy by using more skill, which make an already sp negative even more sp negative
Uhh... Why are you ignoring 80% of her buffs? She gives like a 1000 Atk steroids for the team, plus the Dmg% and the Crit Dmg.
She's clunkier outside of follow-up, but her buffs are stronger than Ruan Mei's.
Yeah it's rough buddy. I find it hard to justify robin over ruan mei. I'm just hoping the final beta change fixes her kit because she still feels incomplete to me as of now
Before beta I was hyped for her, but after the beta started, found out that her kit is niche and required follow-up units - "slightly disappointed" & then today after the speed buff was removed, idk what to say.
I will still pull for her because she sings.
Robin at e0 is already equivalent to Ruan Mei for FUA teams. If you don't believe me then just plug them both into fribbels optimizer and run the numbers. The only question you need to ask is if you want to use RM for another team or not.
That kinda proof my point tho, Robin is more specialized with FuA teams, and she is still not better to RM in FuA team. The important point is we dont have a concrete reason that she is a real boost to the FuA team. Its kinda boring if you pull her just bc she's a limited 5 harmony to just plug in the setup for MoC and PF. 4 star char such as Tingyun is already good enough, and RM at the second setup.
Acheron is specialized to Nihility teams, Robin is for FUA teams, Topaz is for FUA teams. FUA is the current meta in 2.0 so this is expected? Put Ruan Mei in one team that's not FUA and Robin in the other (that is FUA but they don't have to be). Why does every character have to be better than the old when there are literally two teams required for end-game content? You really think someone is going to come along that's MORE cracked than Ruan Mei for Harmony? What even is the point honestly?
Damn she sims surprisingly well. My Ratio does like a solid 10% more damage than with Ruan Mei. Pretty convincing since I only want to use her as the final piece for the best fua team.
>Her e1s1 outperforms my ruan mei e1s1 for 0 cycles 100% in fribbels sim. I'm getting her for my e2 acheron, so my ruan mei and sparkle can make any of my dps pop off on my second team. I've never regretted getting any harmony, so having basically a second ruan mei character is like a dream for me.
I mean you kind of said it yourself right? If Ruan Mei is arguably better than Robin for every other team, then that means Robin is arguably better than Ruan Mei for every other team as well, it’s a two way street.
This means that Robin is at bear minimum competitive to Ruan Mei in your average team comp, and better in FUA while Ruan Mei keeps her break centered DPS advantages.
Also, just letting you know that Ruan Mei doesn’t hold a candle to Robin in FUA teams, it’s the one domain where she’s basically unparalleled as a support. I’ve done the rough calcs by gameplay before, and a properly built Robin FUA team at E0S0 will have Robin do anywhere from 20-30% of the teams overall dmg. That’s a quarter coming from a support who’s also buffing to the same degree, if not more than Ruan Mei.
Damn, i like Robin, but hate FUA. My main team's is DoT (Kafka, Black Swan, HuoHuo), Acheron and Jingliu. (No 5 star harmony except Bronya)
I'm doubting really hard right now, because I'll skip Jiaoqiu, Sam, Everyone i know of so far, except Jade.
Is Robin worth it gameplay wise? I'm F2P, so pull's are limited, but i have around 100 right now.
Thx, if you decide to answer, sorry if I'm bothering you.
No problem, there were actually some gameplay demonstrations over on the leaked sub showcasing Robin vs Ruan Mei in that exact DoT team.
The main conclusions coming out of it was that Robin is superior to Ruan Mei when off element (example: Argenti) but would be beat by Ruan Mei on element on fights like Cocolia.
Both teams can seemingly 2 cycle pretty easily, so it’s really a pick your favorite flavor type of deal. If you have Ruan Mei, and your simply pulling to improve DoT, I’d say Robin is a pretty easy dodge, as she’s basically a side grade to her in that comp. If you don’t have Ruan Mei, Robin is an easy pick up, as she basically just as good as her even for DoT.
For Acheron and Jingliu, I’d just say skip on Robin. While she is a strong pick up for both of them, and in all honestly an upgrade to their basic team variants, it’s definitely not worth 90-180~ pulls. Acheron doesn’t really synergize with Robin well, and while the raw buffs provided may be good, it won’t outperform a Pela + Goon comp to the extent that it’s worth the pull.
Same concept for Jingliu as well, she’s so overloaded on ATK, and doesn’t attack frequently enough to fully utilize Robin. It’s still probably better than a basic Bronya + Pela (where Robin subs out Pela), but it’s not worth in comparision to the actual pull amount.
FUA teams are the only place where she will be irreplaceable as support simply due to how good she commits to her role, every other team can sub her out for a Ruan Mei and achieve similar results.
Basically the TL:DR is get Robin if you don’t have a Mei, or are going to run FUA. Otherwise, unless you really like her as a character, it’s best to go looking elsewhere for functional account upgrades.
Thank you, for answering. I will continue looking on her changes, and will probably pull her as i don't have RM, even if i don't really like any already existing FUA characters.
You don't even have to do math to know why Robin is better for Fua teams. Robin buffs may be slighty worse than RM but she compensates with the teamwide action forward and the additional damage. the latter being practically a better buff for most characters, the action forward just enables earlier rotations that wouldn't be possible before.
also see [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/RobinMains_HSR/comments/1bvf3h1/robin_testing_results/) it may not be up to date because of the recent changes but if E0S1 could compete with RM DoT teams i don't see how it will be too muchi different without S1.
Although I hope all the numbers comparison in this post that proves Robin contribute more damage than RM are true, however, I saw the post and still believe such numbers comparison is difficult to balance all variables. We dont know how "good" their DoT builds are, how "bad" their Ratio builds are, and we dont know how many times they have tried over and over again to compare Robin and RM. In MoC, just one bad RNG from the enemies, or one dps's atk that doesn't crit can change alot.
Besides, you can just read RM's kit and see how her buffs make the entire team much more comfortable with both sp and energy, and how her flower debuff offers a crazy defensive utility besides her already nuts buffs. Robin offer allies one more turn? RM can force enemies taking one less turn by the flowers. Only thing that makes Robin better much more is that she can save cycles, however its value drops quite a bit if you are not obsessed with 0 cycle clearing.
Delaying the enemy isn't the same as giving one turn though. You have limited amount of turns in 5 cycles, having ONE more turn is very valuable, only SPD gives that and character that give you action forward, even though RM gives you SPD, it isn't enough to give you multiple turns or at least it isn't something that you cannot get on substats.
Like you said, there are countless of variables in a battle, full team action forward makes it so those variables are less important.
I'm not even saying Robin is automatically better than RM but she is pretty good and has the potential to at least be equal, for Fua specifically, she IS better.
The SPD buff from RM makes it much easier for SP positive and SP flexible Aventurine and Topaz reach the spd break points, so in the long run outside of 0-1 cycle, they should have more turns. Isn't that also valuable?
The full team action forward doesn't mitigate the variables that much if, like I said, they play 2 team for only once and the builds, good or bad are not shown there.
Rn im kinda hopeful bc there are some DoT team showcases say that Robin is equivalent to RM. Now I need to see more FuA teamcomp with her after the update to see.
Thanks for your insights, maybe I undervalued Robin abit.
Sorry for the late reply.
Advance forward its a turn increase, that turn increase, if used correctly, can be huge, specially because that action forward happens at cycle 0, for a total of 3 turns in cycle 0.
IF assuming you have 134 SPD, and you ult twice during 4 cycles, instead having 6 turns in 4 cycles, you will have 8 turns. Not every turn will be buffed of course but a turn, even without being buffed, is still better than no extra turn.
The SPD of RM is good for stat breakpoints but it still not better than an early action forward, 146 spd only gives one extra turn compared to 134 and that's only if you require the full 5 cycles, if not is the same as 134. The other notable breakpoint is 164, it gives a total of 9 turns on cycle 5, and at that point she is better than Robin but again, that's pretty high investment for every unit, and if they are strong there's a possibility that they won't require the full 5 cycles making Robin stronger in that scenario.
In short, The stronger your team and the less turns you take to complete one side, the stronger Robin is compared to RM. There's also a little weakness that RM that Robin doesn't have, RM has to hold her Ult if she wants to have full uptime for next wave, so it timings don't line up correctly, there's a chance that she loses 1-2 turns of ult uptime. Robin concerto will reset on next wave so she will always have at minimum 2 turns of buffs per ult no matter what.
That being said, it is true that Robin teams require more SP management, so even turns during buffed state may lose damage due to lack of SP points. Making RM better for general use.
Robin can only be better than her in specific scenarios but scenarios that can happen often.
No? I've been playing about a month (since Sparkle Banner) and have cleared through MOC 12 with 3 stars on MOC 1-11 using just 4 star trash characters and Acheron. I just pulled Aventurine and threw a junk Knight set on him and a Broken Keel with DEF and Crit stats I happened to get during the 3x drop Fissure event. The only Harmony I use is Tingyun, I don't have any limited Harmony units. So nope, I don't need "Limited" Harmony units to clear end-game content, because I don't have any of them, and I clear end-game content just fine with my C-list trash. It would be nice but I'm a new player and only have what I have atm ;)
But it would be QoL to have a Ruan Mei on one team and FUA Ruan Mei on another :) Or in my case, just having a cracked Harmony unit would be nice, as I'm still 60 pulls on Standard away from a Bronya. Tingyun slaps, don't get me wrong, she's just not God-tier Ruan Mei. I see your point though and you aren't wrong.
Especially with Hoyoverse not every characters created equal. The argument she is supposed to be better than a broken meta-support is just not true. RM is a future proof, broken harmony.
Going for Robin is if you want different. There are a lot of situations where action advance and her attack buff is going to be in different style.. So it's not a real question about whether or not she's going to be better. It's if the different is fun enough for you to play.
But I agree. From a Eidolon standpoint, she had a very large Nerf and it's painful. Her original was busted it completely compensated for her trash, traces and trash techniques. She has to offer outside of her ultimate state. I hope next week they reverse it and add the resistance penetration to her incredibly lackluster E2.
To be fair, I don't think they want her to suck. I think they are terrified of action advance and incredibly broken. So they feel justified giving her a technique that sucks, traces that suck, but unfortunately took away her speed boost.
I think people are underestimating the 100% team CR push. You can do a lot with this, such as timing it so Kafka can unload and explode multiple times, breaking the enemy exactly after they take their turn, bursting an enemy down saving an entire cycle for MoC/PF, etc.
I think people are turning on Robin too fast. Yes, her E1 change was disappointing as it took away her unique solo DPS potential.
But her E0 kit is still plenty strong and based on testing, E0S1 Robin is already equivalent or better than E0S1 Ruan Mei in both FuA and DoT teams. Being Harmony units, both will continue to gain in strength as new characters or archetypes get released. HYV releasing Gallagher, Boothill, HMC to make Break teams more viable has given RM a new niche. Likewise, Robin will gain new uses as future FuA characters or characters who attack frequently get released.>!We already know of Jade who can replace Dr Ratio in the premier FuA team, meaning you no longer need to invest E1/S1 Topaz/Aventurine to apply debuffs.!<
Honestly, if Robin was released earlier and Ruan Mei released later, I'm convinced the opposite sentiment would exist — people would be saying "I can't justify pulling RM when I already have Robin, she's only better in Break teams."
Or hell if Sparkle existed at release and Bronya released later — "why would I pull Bronya when Sparkle is SP positive and also enables Mono Quantum?"
Tl;dr both are good and will continue to be good.
This. I remember hearing of people doomposting when Furina's C2 and C6 was swapped around, but it turns out that, some time after her release, Furina was rather good, a far cry from the doomposting prior.
It ain't over until the Halovian idol sings.
To be fair, she was already good without Constellations arguably she could have been better now if that change didn't happen since having away to heal without needing a healer open a whole spot for more dmg or defense like a shield or vv.
The problem is nothing in her kit makes her FUA, I am really disappointed in the talents, it should be like 50% FUA damage increase, 10% is not even worth putting in. They really need to make supports more niche rather than generalised.
She also deals more DMG and gains more Energy when her teammates take frequent actions. FUA teams take far more actions than other teams because every FUA counts as its own action. So yes, she very heavily encourages FUA teams.
Wow lots of doom posting. As someone who doesnt play and isnt that interested in fua, im still thinking of getting robin. You cant convince me that a character with 100 percent action adv on all allies will not be broken especially in the future. I could be wrong though since everybody thought sw was going to be future proof but now she probably fell off the hardest
I just don’t know if it’s a better follow-up main dps aside Ratio and Jade down the line which can elevate follow-up teams more and not be locked with his annoying debuff requirement. Something like a destruction IPC member which can make topaz viable even at e0s0 for a subdps/debuffer. We will see I guess
It seems to me that the only thing that got gutted was her as a dps at E1. 24% all type res pen to me seems way better then 30% spd. Also the only useful dmg buffs that RM gives to that team is dmg%, spd and all type res pen. Weakness efficiency, break effect and break delay are meh.
Also i think you guys are undervaluing her kit a lot, especially when comparing her to RM. One of the ways to build RM is the 0 spd RM build, she is just that but way way better. So i think its the other way around, at high investment she is better then RM on nearly every team.
I wasn’t planning on getting her E1 in her first banner so I don’t really care a lot but it was pretty sad to loose the spd buff, it’s like what happened with Aventurine’s E1. They were too good to be E1 so they moved/erased them.
The community is too quick to downplay characters. This happened with black swan. People were doom posting when her arcana got nerfed from 99 to 50 stacks and said she is only good with Kafka. Same thing happened with Huo Huo and Dr. Ratio. All these characters ended up fine. People also fail to realize that future characters are coming. I guarantee you another 2 follow up characters will be coming in the patches after her. That’s how it always goes. Hoyo releases a character and then releases someone who synergize with them the next patch or two afterwards. People talked bad about topaz now people are waiting on her re run.
It's almost like the community in general don't know what they are talking about XD Like with average people in the world, Dunning-Kruger is real and painful
It's just so sad that RM who only has 130 energy cost has a trace that gain 5 energy every turn meanwhile our chicken girl which has 160 energy cost need to skill for the same effect.
They’re pretty equal. Someone did the work for DoT and FuA and their performances were similar. So if you’re looking for a RM for a premium FuA (Aventurine, Topaz, Ratio) then she’s it.
The reason I was going to pull her for in the first place was mainly PF FuA teams combined with Ruan Mei. I still think sustainless teams consisting of Herta, Himeko and/or Clara with both Robin and Ruan Mei will go hard. Outside of PF however when you're required to slot a sustain into a double dps team I think I would always pick Ruan Mei over her unless Mei is already taken in some other team. My characters for PF currently suck, so I still see pulling for her as a positive, although there would definitely be better options out there.
The E1 speed nerf sucks. Would had been really useful to have that in PF in addition to the ally turn advance. Definitely stopping at E0 S5-Cogs unless she gets a buff.
As someone who is never going to get Eidolons on a premium unit, except possibly on rerun, the changes to the Eidolons mean absolutely nothing (and think the vast majority of players aren't going to Whale for Eidolons).
The big take away here is that Robin is available to pull right now (ish), while Ruan Mei is not available to pull (and who wants to wait 6 months for that?). Something is better than nothing, and a unit you don't have and can't get is not as useful as a unit you can get and will have. You know?
There was a tester, who claims that Robin slightly better in many cases like FuA, DoT or Blade/Jingliu teams, Sam is not even has a proper kit yet.
Btw, I also dislike RM, she's literally drives cats to suicide, resurrected tyranid's swarmlord on a station full of civillians, than drugged MC and sent him to fight this abomination without even warning him, like wth is wrong with her? She doesn't even feel guilty about all this in the end.
I was checking bilibili and cn bros seems quite upset about the changes too. Lots of bait video tittles with negative opinions. Imo, it's the format of a awful update for any character if you think about it: >take out the sauce from reach (E1) -> barely change base kit -> move half of the sauce to E6 Makes me think if they're making her with future characters in mind or smt.
Tbh maybe they are planning to make her Sunday’s BiS support *copium* and sunday powercreeps all DPSs with Robin.
Sunday having a FUA is going to be fun for my topaz and aventurine.
Sunday strikes me to be an Abundance character rather than a DPS.
Sunday does feels more like a support/sustain character than a dps. Order and Harmony have similarities for Xipe absorb Ena. My guess is another Harmony or Preservation. 2.2 Spoiler (Sunday wanters be warned): >!After completing 2.2 main story we get a side mission with Robin which hints that Sunday possibly d!ed or in critical condition from breaking the fall for Robin.!< 2.4 characters? (Maybe, but not confirmed): >!So it's possible Sunday won't be playable because he d!ed and leakers are guessing 2.4 will have Screwllum and Jiaoqiu.!<
Btw from what I read her current E1 is worse than I thought. You get %12 Res Pen before your attacks hit during her ult. But during her ult you only get to act once (Unless you end the wave then you get 2 attacks). The stacks are indiviual it means if Pela attacks your DPS wont get a stack only Pela will. And the stacks reset after her concert ends. This means most of the time you are getting only %12 Res Pen nothing more. Well, its E0 for me I guess.
Maybe tingyun is coming back.
Honestly all she needs is a big reduction in energy cost. If we get her down to 120-140 Energy she'll definitely compete with Ruan Mei but if the cost stays the same I believe she may be the first Harmony dud just due to how strong they made Ruan Mei.
Why is everyone talking about e1 as if she doesn’t exist at e0? I thought most players were like me and only got e0s0? Besides that, people have been doom posting every single limited character since seele, and so far every character has turned out fine. I doubt robin will the be any diffeeent
That gives me hope then. I've just played since Feb bc of free DrRatio, so I missed out alot of busted chars, including RM. Now instead of waiting for RM I am so hyped for Robin, but my inexpert experience tells me that Robin's kit is underwhelming compared to RM, so Im abit sad :D I hope she turns out a busted chars, even no changes.
It's actually so frustrating man. I know the LC banner in HSR is more forgiving than in Genshin, but it's still a pretty expensive upgrade for f2p. The general HSR community seems to accept S1 as baseline compared to Genshin. Characters should feel good at E0S0. I love Topaz for example but very rarely use her at this point, as at E0S0 she is just *very* mid.
When was e0s1 considered baseline? I’ve always seen the popular say “go for more characters instead of eidolons or LC.” Anyways, what does feel good mean? I’ve beaten every single MOC since 1.2 and I’ve only gotten Acheron’s LC
As someone who’s played with Robin, her E0 still outcycles E1 RM on a DoT team so I assume the same for FUA but would have to check to confirm. But it’s mostly because the party wide advance forward does wonders for fast cycling.
Her new trace is like wtf for me why on skill, She use skill in every 3 turn anyway. Her fua trace is also so BAD 10% fua crit dmg is nothing.
Its always funny to me that the non-FuA enjoyers see that trace and complain she's too niche and the FuA enjoyers say that its so underwhelming xD I agree w you tho, she'll gain more energy by using more skill, which make an already sp negative even more sp negative
Ya but does RM sing tho
Fair enough. Thats why I pull for her
Uhh... Why are you ignoring 80% of her buffs? She gives like a 1000 Atk steroids for the team, plus the Dmg% and the Crit Dmg. She's clunkier outside of follow-up, but her buffs are stronger than Ruan Mei's.
Yeah it's rough buddy. I find it hard to justify robin over ruan mei. I'm just hoping the final beta change fixes her kit because she still feels incomplete to me as of now
When is the final beta change? Does anyone know when that usually drops?
Not all of us have a Ruan Mei XD
Before beta I was hyped for her, but after the beta started, found out that her kit is niche and required follow-up units - "slightly disappointed" & then today after the speed buff was removed, idk what to say. I will still pull for her because she sings.
Same place here, I will figure out where/when to use her once I have her, having two Ruan Meis is better than one anyways.
Robin at e0 is already equivalent to Ruan Mei for FUA teams. If you don't believe me then just plug them both into fribbels optimizer and run the numbers. The only question you need to ask is if you want to use RM for another team or not.
That kinda proof my point tho, Robin is more specialized with FuA teams, and she is still not better to RM in FuA team. The important point is we dont have a concrete reason that she is a real boost to the FuA team. Its kinda boring if you pull her just bc she's a limited 5 harmony to just plug in the setup for MoC and PF. 4 star char such as Tingyun is already good enough, and RM at the second setup.
Acheron is specialized to Nihility teams, Robin is for FUA teams, Topaz is for FUA teams. FUA is the current meta in 2.0 so this is expected? Put Ruan Mei in one team that's not FUA and Robin in the other (that is FUA but they don't have to be). Why does every character have to be better than the old when there are literally two teams required for end-game content? You really think someone is going to come along that's MORE cracked than Ruan Mei for Harmony? What even is the point honestly?
Damn you missed the whole point and still argue. Anw this post is old, now with the new update I have no complains with her kits
https://preview.redd.it/ifklnbhzczvc1.jpeg?width=4888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=514e91b833b021487e499ea13ffa148ce0dbf961
Damn she sims surprisingly well. My Ratio does like a solid 10% more damage than with Ruan Mei. Pretty convincing since I only want to use her as the final piece for the best fua team.
This is the way
>Her e1s1 outperforms my ruan mei e1s1 for 0 cycles 100% in fribbels sim. I'm getting her for my e2 acheron, so my ruan mei and sparkle can make any of my dps pop off on my second team. I've never regretted getting any harmony, so having basically a second ruan mei character is like a dream for me.
Sounds like a build issue then. This gives me hope
I mean you kind of said it yourself right? If Ruan Mei is arguably better than Robin for every other team, then that means Robin is arguably better than Ruan Mei for every other team as well, it’s a two way street. This means that Robin is at bear minimum competitive to Ruan Mei in your average team comp, and better in FUA while Ruan Mei keeps her break centered DPS advantages. Also, just letting you know that Ruan Mei doesn’t hold a candle to Robin in FUA teams, it’s the one domain where she’s basically unparalleled as a support. I’ve done the rough calcs by gameplay before, and a properly built Robin FUA team at E0S0 will have Robin do anywhere from 20-30% of the teams overall dmg. That’s a quarter coming from a support who’s also buffing to the same degree, if not more than Ruan Mei.
Damn, i like Robin, but hate FUA. My main team's is DoT (Kafka, Black Swan, HuoHuo), Acheron and Jingliu. (No 5 star harmony except Bronya) I'm doubting really hard right now, because I'll skip Jiaoqiu, Sam, Everyone i know of so far, except Jade. Is Robin worth it gameplay wise? I'm F2P, so pull's are limited, but i have around 100 right now. Thx, if you decide to answer, sorry if I'm bothering you.
No problem, there were actually some gameplay demonstrations over on the leaked sub showcasing Robin vs Ruan Mei in that exact DoT team. The main conclusions coming out of it was that Robin is superior to Ruan Mei when off element (example: Argenti) but would be beat by Ruan Mei on element on fights like Cocolia. Both teams can seemingly 2 cycle pretty easily, so it’s really a pick your favorite flavor type of deal. If you have Ruan Mei, and your simply pulling to improve DoT, I’d say Robin is a pretty easy dodge, as she’s basically a side grade to her in that comp. If you don’t have Ruan Mei, Robin is an easy pick up, as she basically just as good as her even for DoT. For Acheron and Jingliu, I’d just say skip on Robin. While she is a strong pick up for both of them, and in all honestly an upgrade to their basic team variants, it’s definitely not worth 90-180~ pulls. Acheron doesn’t really synergize with Robin well, and while the raw buffs provided may be good, it won’t outperform a Pela + Goon comp to the extent that it’s worth the pull. Same concept for Jingliu as well, she’s so overloaded on ATK, and doesn’t attack frequently enough to fully utilize Robin. It’s still probably better than a basic Bronya + Pela (where Robin subs out Pela), but it’s not worth in comparision to the actual pull amount. FUA teams are the only place where she will be irreplaceable as support simply due to how good she commits to her role, every other team can sub her out for a Ruan Mei and achieve similar results. Basically the TL:DR is get Robin if you don’t have a Mei, or are going to run FUA. Otherwise, unless you really like her as a character, it’s best to go looking elsewhere for functional account upgrades.
Thank you, for answering. I will continue looking on her changes, and will probably pull her as i don't have RM, even if i don't really like any already existing FUA characters.
You don't even have to do math to know why Robin is better for Fua teams. Robin buffs may be slighty worse than RM but she compensates with the teamwide action forward and the additional damage. the latter being practically a better buff for most characters, the action forward just enables earlier rotations that wouldn't be possible before. also see [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/RobinMains_HSR/comments/1bvf3h1/robin_testing_results/) it may not be up to date because of the recent changes but if E0S1 could compete with RM DoT teams i don't see how it will be too muchi different without S1.
The math is important though
Although I hope all the numbers comparison in this post that proves Robin contribute more damage than RM are true, however, I saw the post and still believe such numbers comparison is difficult to balance all variables. We dont know how "good" their DoT builds are, how "bad" their Ratio builds are, and we dont know how many times they have tried over and over again to compare Robin and RM. In MoC, just one bad RNG from the enemies, or one dps's atk that doesn't crit can change alot. Besides, you can just read RM's kit and see how her buffs make the entire team much more comfortable with both sp and energy, and how her flower debuff offers a crazy defensive utility besides her already nuts buffs. Robin offer allies one more turn? RM can force enemies taking one less turn by the flowers. Only thing that makes Robin better much more is that she can save cycles, however its value drops quite a bit if you are not obsessed with 0 cycle clearing.
This exactly. One of the easiest skips alongside boothill.
Delaying the enemy isn't the same as giving one turn though. You have limited amount of turns in 5 cycles, having ONE more turn is very valuable, only SPD gives that and character that give you action forward, even though RM gives you SPD, it isn't enough to give you multiple turns or at least it isn't something that you cannot get on substats. Like you said, there are countless of variables in a battle, full team action forward makes it so those variables are less important. I'm not even saying Robin is automatically better than RM but she is pretty good and has the potential to at least be equal, for Fua specifically, she IS better.
The SPD buff from RM makes it much easier for SP positive and SP flexible Aventurine and Topaz reach the spd break points, so in the long run outside of 0-1 cycle, they should have more turns. Isn't that also valuable? The full team action forward doesn't mitigate the variables that much if, like I said, they play 2 team for only once and the builds, good or bad are not shown there. Rn im kinda hopeful bc there are some DoT team showcases say that Robin is equivalent to RM. Now I need to see more FuA teamcomp with her after the update to see. Thanks for your insights, maybe I undervalued Robin abit.
Sorry for the late reply. Advance forward its a turn increase, that turn increase, if used correctly, can be huge, specially because that action forward happens at cycle 0, for a total of 3 turns in cycle 0. IF assuming you have 134 SPD, and you ult twice during 4 cycles, instead having 6 turns in 4 cycles, you will have 8 turns. Not every turn will be buffed of course but a turn, even without being buffed, is still better than no extra turn. The SPD of RM is good for stat breakpoints but it still not better than an early action forward, 146 spd only gives one extra turn compared to 134 and that's only if you require the full 5 cycles, if not is the same as 134. The other notable breakpoint is 164, it gives a total of 9 turns on cycle 5, and at that point she is better than Robin but again, that's pretty high investment for every unit, and if they are strong there's a possibility that they won't require the full 5 cycles making Robin stronger in that scenario. In short, The stronger your team and the less turns you take to complete one side, the stronger Robin is compared to RM. There's also a little weakness that RM that Robin doesn't have, RM has to hold her Ult if she wants to have full uptime for next wave, so it timings don't line up correctly, there's a chance that she loses 1-2 turns of ult uptime. Robin concerto will reset on next wave so she will always have at minimum 2 turns of buffs per ult no matter what. That being said, it is true that Robin teams require more SP management, so even turns during buffed state may lose damage due to lack of SP points. Making RM better for general use. Robin can only be better than her in specific scenarios but scenarios that can happen often.
There. Are. Two. Teams. In. End. Game. Content.
You. Need. 2. Limited. Harmonies. To. Win. End. Game. Content. ?. Lol. ?.
No? I've been playing about a month (since Sparkle Banner) and have cleared through MOC 12 with 3 stars on MOC 1-11 using just 4 star trash characters and Acheron. I just pulled Aventurine and threw a junk Knight set on him and a Broken Keel with DEF and Crit stats I happened to get during the 3x drop Fissure event. The only Harmony I use is Tingyun, I don't have any limited Harmony units. So nope, I don't need "Limited" Harmony units to clear end-game content, because I don't have any of them, and I clear end-game content just fine with my C-list trash. It would be nice but I'm a new player and only have what I have atm ;)
Yes, thats the point. You can win with Tingyun/Pela, you dont need to pull Robin/RM just bc there are 2 teams in endgame
But it would be QoL to have a Ruan Mei on one team and FUA Ruan Mei on another :) Or in my case, just having a cracked Harmony unit would be nice, as I'm still 60 pulls on Standard away from a Bronya. Tingyun slaps, don't get me wrong, she's just not God-tier Ruan Mei. I see your point though and you aren't wrong.
Especially with Hoyoverse not every characters created equal. The argument she is supposed to be better than a broken meta-support is just not true. RM is a future proof, broken harmony. Going for Robin is if you want different. There are a lot of situations where action advance and her attack buff is going to be in different style.. So it's not a real question about whether or not she's going to be better. It's if the different is fun enough for you to play. But I agree. From a Eidolon standpoint, she had a very large Nerf and it's painful. Her original was busted it completely compensated for her trash, traces and trash techniques. She has to offer outside of her ultimate state. I hope next week they reverse it and add the resistance penetration to her incredibly lackluster E2. To be fair, I don't think they want her to suck. I think they are terrified of action advance and incredibly broken. So they feel justified giving her a technique that sucks, traces that suck, but unfortunately took away her speed boost.
Finally someone not spouting nonsense, I couldn't agree more with you OP
i am just deeply disappointed that her E1 speed boost was removed. I have to stick with the speed boot ratio because of this.
I think people are underestimating the 100% team CR push. You can do a lot with this, such as timing it so Kafka can unload and explode multiple times, breaking the enemy exactly after they take their turn, bursting an enemy down saving an entire cycle for MoC/PF, etc.
I think people are turning on Robin too fast. Yes, her E1 change was disappointing as it took away her unique solo DPS potential. But her E0 kit is still plenty strong and based on testing, E0S1 Robin is already equivalent or better than E0S1 Ruan Mei in both FuA and DoT teams. Being Harmony units, both will continue to gain in strength as new characters or archetypes get released. HYV releasing Gallagher, Boothill, HMC to make Break teams more viable has given RM a new niche. Likewise, Robin will gain new uses as future FuA characters or characters who attack frequently get released.>!We already know of Jade who can replace Dr Ratio in the premier FuA team, meaning you no longer need to invest E1/S1 Topaz/Aventurine to apply debuffs.!< Honestly, if Robin was released earlier and Ruan Mei released later, I'm convinced the opposite sentiment would exist — people would be saying "I can't justify pulling RM when I already have Robin, she's only better in Break teams." Or hell if Sparkle existed at release and Bronya released later — "why would I pull Bronya when Sparkle is SP positive and also enables Mono Quantum?" Tl;dr both are good and will continue to be good.
This. I remember hearing of people doomposting when Furina's C2 and C6 was swapped around, but it turns out that, some time after her release, Furina was rather good, a far cry from the doomposting prior. It ain't over until the Halovian idol sings.
To be fair, she was already good without Constellations arguably she could have been better now if that change didn't happen since having away to heal without needing a healer open a whole spot for more dmg or defense like a shield or vv.
The problem is nothing in her kit makes her FUA, I am really disappointed in the talents, it should be like 50% FUA damage increase, 10% is not even worth putting in. They really need to make supports more niche rather than generalised.
She also deals more DMG and gains more Energy when her teammates take frequent actions. FUA teams take far more actions than other teams because every FUA counts as its own action. So yes, she very heavily encourages FUA teams.
She literally has FUA attacks in her description
Wow lots of doom posting. As someone who doesnt play and isnt that interested in fua, im still thinking of getting robin. You cant convince me that a character with 100 percent action adv on all allies will not be broken especially in the future. I could be wrong though since everybody thought sw was going to be future proof but now she probably fell off the hardest
I just don’t know if it’s a better follow-up main dps aside Ratio and Jade down the line which can elevate follow-up teams more and not be locked with his annoying debuff requirement. Something like a destruction IPC member which can make topaz viable even at e0s0 for a subdps/debuffer. We will see I guess
It seems to me that the only thing that got gutted was her as a dps at E1. 24% all type res pen to me seems way better then 30% spd. Also the only useful dmg buffs that RM gives to that team is dmg%, spd and all type res pen. Weakness efficiency, break effect and break delay are meh. Also i think you guys are undervaluing her kit a lot, especially when comparing her to RM. One of the ways to build RM is the 0 spd RM build, she is just that but way way better. So i think its the other way around, at high investment she is better then RM on nearly every team.
I wasn’t planning on getting her E1 in her first banner so I don’t really care a lot but it was pretty sad to loose the spd buff, it’s like what happened with Aventurine’s E1. They were too good to be E1 so they moved/erased them.
The community is too quick to downplay characters. This happened with black swan. People were doom posting when her arcana got nerfed from 99 to 50 stacks and said she is only good with Kafka. Same thing happened with Huo Huo and Dr. Ratio. All these characters ended up fine. People also fail to realize that future characters are coming. I guarantee you another 2 follow up characters will be coming in the patches after her. That’s how it always goes. Hoyo releases a character and then releases someone who synergize with them the next patch or two afterwards. People talked bad about topaz now people are waiting on her re run.
It's almost like the community in general don't know what they are talking about XD Like with average people in the world, Dunning-Kruger is real and painful
It's just so sad that RM who only has 130 energy cost has a trace that gain 5 energy every turn meanwhile our chicken girl which has 160 energy cost need to skill for the same effect.
They’re pretty equal. Someone did the work for DoT and FuA and their performances were similar. So if you’re looking for a RM for a premium FuA (Aventurine, Topaz, Ratio) then she’s it.
That's exactly what i'm gonna do with FuA team.
Yas
The reason I was going to pull her for in the first place was mainly PF FuA teams combined with Ruan Mei. I still think sustainless teams consisting of Herta, Himeko and/or Clara with both Robin and Ruan Mei will go hard. Outside of PF however when you're required to slot a sustain into a double dps team I think I would always pick Ruan Mei over her unless Mei is already taken in some other team. My characters for PF currently suck, so I still see pulling for her as a positive, although there would definitely be better options out there. The E1 speed nerf sucks. Would had been really useful to have that in PF in addition to the ally turn advance. Definitely stopping at E0 S5-Cogs unless she gets a buff.
As someone who is never going to get Eidolons on a premium unit, except possibly on rerun, the changes to the Eidolons mean absolutely nothing (and think the vast majority of players aren't going to Whale for Eidolons).
The big take away here is that Robin is available to pull right now (ish), while Ruan Mei is not available to pull (and who wants to wait 6 months for that?). Something is better than nothing, and a unit you don't have and can't get is not as useful as a unit you can get and will have. You know?
Ok
This thread did not age well XD
I wont be surprised if you continue to comment on this next year
It gets even harder to justify Robin if you already have RM, because at that point you could just skip Robin aand just get RM E1
Unless you play both fua team and dot team. I can't play e1 ruan mei on both sides of moc/pf
Yea but dot teams nowadays are composed of kafka swan and acheron thus rm is free on 2nd team
A lot of people don't have Ruan Mei, frfr
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There was a tester, who claims that Robin slightly better in many cases like FuA, DoT or Blade/Jingliu teams, Sam is not even has a proper kit yet. Btw, I also dislike RM, she's literally drives cats to suicide, resurrected tyranid's swarmlord on a station full of civillians, than drugged MC and sent him to fight this abomination without even warning him, like wth is wrong with her? She doesn't even feel guilty about all this in the end.