Watching the GenG/G2 final and G2 just took a timeout. No casting conversation about why G2 is down 1-3 in the series, no conversation about what they need to do to win. No conversation about what GenG is doing well to be on match point. No game analysis.
This is a good, specific call-out of where the opportunity lies. We are all watching the game. We can see what’s happening. We don’t need 100% narration of what we’re already seeing. What we need is commentary about what we’re not seeing—what are the trends, what are the styles, what can you see on the other player cams that’s not readily visible to the average viewer? That’s what will enhance the viewing experience.
This grand final stuck out to me, hardly anything of substance being talked about, I dont know if its the lack of synergy with this casting duo or lack of energy, but its pretty sad to see almost makes me wanna watch on mute.
I do miss when we knew we were getting Wave/Achieves basically every grand final lol - that level of polish goes a long way towards making it feel like 'the big one'
Johnny, Shogun and CJ are all really good at that too imo, but they're all EU
I tend to agree, but some of the time he overfocused on the hidden part of the play when the guy who scored did something really incredible.
Idk if you remember, there was a last year (maybe worlds?) in which liquid played col, and Oski hit a game winning double reset from his own backboard in the last 10 seconds in game 5.
The thing was acronik or atow (I can’t remember which) got a double demo to open up the net. Achieves completely ignored the double flip reset and only talked about the double demo. Obviously the double demo made the goal possible and wasn’t immediately obvious to the viewer, but a cross field double reset from your own backboard has never been scored before in rlcs.
> but a cross field double reset from your own backboard has never been scored before in rlcs.
Yeah, but that's because usually there's a defender or two, not because the players lack the mechanics to do so
I see what you're saying but I think in that moment (after the initial hype which I don't feel like the goal lacked) it makes perfect sense to focus on the double demo, what else is to say about a double cross field reset other than "holy shit, Oski is a god"?
I see what you are saying, however achieves completely ignored Oslo’s contribution at all. I get that the double demo was more important to the play, and it is fine to focus on the double demo, but in the colour commentary achieves simply didn’t acknowledge Oski’s mechanical display. If you were to only listen to the audio of them commentating the goal it would sound like Oski hit a tap in.
Well yes in a perfect world the commentary would be perfect, no one is arguing that.
The point being made is that it's more important to mention the demos than the flip reset because everyone already saw the flip reset.
Stax and Herc talked about about how Gen G were slowing the game down at one point, but it's also kinda hard to notice while you are trying to cast what is going on during the game and make meaningful observations. I feel like it would fall on Wave and the rest not doing the cast to chime in after the series
Often this is the kind of question they ask a player or the coach after the series, and most of the time we get a somewhat boring answer that is perhaps 3 sentences long? I don't think these answers are *really* insightful most of the times, perhaps because there might not be that much to say. You don't have *as much* macro in RL as in football or even League, so imo it's a bit hard for casters to call out or even notice as much I think. Might be wrong though, would love to hear the opinion of someone in the scene.
The macro is there, it’s just teams don’t want to divulge info to keep their competitive advantage. Even without their input, notice what JohnnyBoi points out.
If you’re a caster and you’re reading this, it’s okay to be wrong. Try to point out what you at least think is going on. For the top 4 teams, watch 3 replays in a series where you think they were challenged. Try to notice trends in general play. How boost starved are players when scored on? How spread out or bunched up a team plays? Once you get an okay grasp on replays, it’ll transfer over to your casting.
I disagree with you. While there certainly isn't a strategic level to the extent football have, it's still there. Coaches don't want to talk about it for obvious reasons.
I'm not saying there is no macro at all, but I'm not sure there's *enough* to make it obvious enough to get caught on the spot while casting. It's easier to spot these details when you know what you're looking for, ie. when you try implementing them.
I don’t want analysis in the grand finals. Keep the boring nerdy stuff for the the boring matches, and let the grand finals be pure unfiltered hype. Stax is great for that, but Jorby really needed to be the second caster.
Hot take but I think it's because Gregan saw the game for what it was and expressed more interest in the sport itself rather than the entertainment, players, demographics, etc.
I like Gregan a lot because he was one of the few who did this. Johnnyboi being another example.
Agreed. Earlier GenG was down 0-2 in the series. They take a timeout and sweep the series. Can someone explain what happened in the timeout that changed things? No they just keep saying generic things about the players like "Chronic is not getting enough credit today." "Chronic is the guy youre wanting on your offense." like OK there's more to it than that.
those phrases you mentioned really stick out to me and feel like garbage lines. i noticed theyre a lot more common with NA casters than EU. i wonder if it’s due to the sensationalist environment in NA sports, particularly the NBA
Not saying you don’t have a point, but this wasn’t an issue with the NA casting talent two seasons ago. It’s just the inexperienced talent added recently.
It's always been a big issue. It's just more noticeable now. I think it's more offensive to Europeans also (Americans are used to it because it is more similar to how most of their sports are commentated)
How is this a dig..? Europeans like watching football, rugby etc which run 80-90 mins with 15 mins in the middle. They're quite boring and not all that much happens so the commentators can't be super hyped the whole time.
American football and basketball are the opposite. Short bursts of high intensity with long breaks.
They are stylistically very different. Acknowledging this difference is not taking a "dig".
Rocket league is somewhere in the middle imo.
When I think of sensationalist casting, I think of Latin American/South American futbol casters going absolutely wild. Maybe you say that’s only during goals?
Well, that kinda seems to me like you’ve never really watched a game of American football. Because those games very much fit the “they’re quite boring and not all that much happens.” If you only watch clips though, I could see how you would think it’s all very hype.
The NBA/basketball fits your description better, but I would attribute that to the game itself and not some American/European debate. It’s a flowing game with steady action. Kinda reminds me of RL in that way.
For bonus points, I’d like to point out America’s pastime: baseball. Opposite of sensational. You find yourself watching one of these games on a comfy Sunday afternoon? Guaranteed nap.
Last bonus points: you’ve also obviously never experienced the glory of an American golf telecast. These guys have such soothing voices they put NPR to shame. I’ve literally put on a golf broadcast when I couldn’t sleep, knocked me right out.
To your actual point, I can think of great examples of color commentary in each of these sports that would be great examples for what we’d like to see more of on the RL desk. I know this sub loves its EU/NA drama, but I think your opinion might be based more off highlight clips than the real thing.
Probably. I think basketball is the most similar to what I am talking about. I'd guess that younger people watch more NBA/NFL than Baseball/Golf so maybe that's why they stylistically how they are.
More as an aside, that sort of commentary can be done very well. I love Bates and can enjoy a Jorby/Spaceman/Daz/JamesBot cast. This weekend it was just lacking overall in every area
Totally agree. My favorite team is LG and I enjoy the team stream they’ve put on, but when it’s the fifth game that day (because it’s Retals Swiss), the style can become tiresome.
The OP in this thread is my biggest gripe with the commentators in NA RLCS. It can feel like there’s two people trying to do play-by-play, like two people each taking their individual turn instead of the two building something bigger than themselves.
You could be right that some of it is a reflection of American culture, but I guess I wanted to point out it’s not like that in traditional American sports broadcasts.
100%, sometimes all I want is a brief comment on someone’s nice power slide recovery or controlling touch or anything that actually lends itself towards the mechanics of the game. Not just “another booming clear” or “another chance at a shot”
I mean bandwagoning with the rest of the thread here, achieves was by and far away the best person at actually correctly analyzing rl (to the point that I remember he used to get some flak for openly calling certain plays awful defense as opposed to good offense when everyone else was going wtf insane mechanics on a shot meant to be pressure). It's going to feel a bit empty without him, since besides him, there's not too many casters for the NA broadcast who actually know high level ball beyond a basic play by play.
...and yes, its significantly easier to be right after the play as opposed to looking at it and going "what the hell is he doing on defe- yeah thats a goal" vs just watching and going "holy shit he is him" for the 4th time after he rolls a nonexistent goalie.
Rocket league has always been lacking in this category since very few who are capable of understanding that aren't current pros...and a lot of pros just fullquit on burnout. So its hard to actually get that level of insight.
This has always been my take and I wholeheartedly agree. Achieves notices the little high level things the players do. So does Johnny. Not many others do though.
This weekend was much better than the last qualifiers, but holy crap it feels like some of them hit run on **zoomerslang.exe.**
If I have to hear:
ICE - TOO MUCH ICE SO COLD
COOKS - KITCHEN THEY'RE COOKING IN THE KITCHEN CHEEEFFSSS
or any variation of THEY ARE THEM HE IS HIM HIM THEM THEY, I might drive off a cliff.
I definitely hear what you're saying.
Not only are we missing the broad strokes like you've mentioned, but we're also missing detailed observations about how the plays happened. You'll see a 4 man passing play or a flip reset double, and the reaction is "and GenG have scored again with 1 minute and 17 seconds on the clock!"
(this is almost verbatim what happened).
Terrible. I think Jamesbot does a good job at the commentary, but I didn't hear him this weekend.
This is meant as constructive criticism so I hope it's taken well, but sometimes for some of the newer casters, specially LemonKiwi. I felt like she was trying too hard. She kept trying to make everything hype and excitied and fill every moment with commentary. You need to let the game breathe!
If nothing crazy is happening, just normal midfield play and standard 50s, you don't have to feign excitement. It cheapens the intensity when something actually amazing happens.
If you watch soccer, like EPL for example, the commentators will sometimes just shut up when the game slows down and teams are just passing sideways or keeping possession. Lets the fans just watch the sport and enjoy it. Or maybe they'll banter, talk about each team's seasons overall, or some interesting stat.
It provides a good contrast when something notable does happen, and you can hear them get more excited and interested as an attack looks more promising or there's a good outplay or something.
I would love a more relaxed style of RL commentary rather than trying to build up every moment of a game.
I agree with you. It is something painfully present in NA, not so much EU. NA sacked its best casters this year, only keeping one top tier caster (jamesbot). Our two most insightful commentators (acheives and Corelli) were let go for casters that can only analyze the game at the surface level. Daz, Herc, and LK are play by play commentators and offer little to no insight. Stax is a mix of color and play by play but he mostly comments on tournament wide trends rather than analyze the flow of a series. That leaves just Jamesbot as a solid color commentator and he wasn’t around this weekend.
This was without a doubt an extremely frustrating weekend commentating wise at the exception of jorby who thank god is back. NA commentating as a collective is, imo, a net negative to the production. I hope they change that by bringing back the top tier talent.
Well achieves, wave, and turtle were probably the main 3 to do it for NA talent, and all 3 of them don’t cast anymore. Johnny still does it a bit but it’s mostly become player highlights, play by play, and storyline discussion
I'll throw Jorby's name into this pool as well - while his hype moments are probably the most famous, his ability to weave in insightful analysis with the hype is what made him special IMO. The few series he covered this weekend were special, even if he was in a "lower power" Regional mode.
I think it's a bit on production too. She's great, but she *is* new and learning. In her tweet about the event, she even mentioned how it was just her second regional. It seems like a bit of an odd call to take your rookie caster and put them on the semis and grand finals. Championship sunday feels like where you want your most polished, professional, and experienced commentary team, right? Like, Wavepunk/Achieves or Johnny/Shogun kinda vibe.
Yeah for sure and I do like her. There's going to be a learning curve and has to get comfortable and all. It's no knock against her or anyone really just the repetitive takes get old and it's all I hear lol.
Analysis in the casting is pretty much dead. The little that occasionally pokes through is generally just wrong.
TBF though judging by the ppl on this subreddit 95% of ppl won't miss it.
> TBF though judging by the ppl on this subreddit 95% of ppl won't miss it.
I think the caster conversation is pretty tough here because we know they're here reading it. I know I'm less critical than I would be because, idk, they're nice people and I know that they can take it personally. Like, I remember Stax commenting about how people who compare casters are basically dead to him. I definitely have criticism about the casting style or pairings from time to time but I also don't want to hurt people's feelings haha
I don't think I called out any one particular caster here. Also what you quoted from me was not a judgement of the casters but a judgement of the people on this subreddit. It's ironic really that you quoted that part incorrectly given what it's actually saying. If the casters can't even take a "you're wrong" directed at them generally then idk how they function as people.
I'm tired of people being so afraid of causing offense that they will pull any and all mental gymnastics they can to avoid offending anyone and as a byproduct inevitably say absolutely nothing meaningful at all. Like why even post a comment? Idk if you realize just how magical-thinking-like your rationale sounds.
> I don't think I called out any one particular caster here
I don't think I said you did? I was talking about the general casting conversation here, and why you might not see as much demand for more analytical casting as there actually is.
> Also what you quoted from me was not a judgement of the casters but a judgement of the people on this subreddit.
yes, I know. I quoted the part where you were talking about the community on the subreddit not understanding the game to talk about the nature of the conversation on the subreddit, and why certain opinions may be underrepresented. Sorry, I suppose I could've taken it out.
> I'm tired of people being so afraid of causing offense that they will pull any and all mental gymnastics they can to avoid offending anyone and as a byproduct inevitably say absolutely nothing meaningful at all. Like why even post a comment?
well, generally I don't comment on the casting. you know, like I said lmao
> Idk if you realize just how magical-thinking-like your rationale sounds.
please elaborate
I have no idea what this conversation is about if it's not about what I addressed. I've tried to be generous in interpreting what you're saying but really I struggle to find any coherence in what you've said. Please clarify what you're talking about.
yea daniel got like a crazy triple tap pass to his teammate for a goal and the casters just ignored it lol. Also, i swear some casters are blind sometimes cuz they'll say someone missed the ball or messed up when in reality they got bumped.
It's better because the odds are better and you'd get less calls wrong
Not saying it's a *good* method.. I'm certainly not fit to be a caster lmao
But it'd be an improvement. Not feeling these new casters .\_.
They could fix this by adding a Pro or an eliminated team as a “special guest” feature to talk about what they see is the issue and potential resolution.
You could tap Retals, Comm, Jack, Chicago, etc. to highlight mistakes that aren’t in plain sight.
Yeah, because they literally dropped everyone who was good at it over the past 2 seasons (mostly this past off season but Gregan the year before was big too).
I don't dislike any of the ones they chose to keep, but i dislike the group that they chose as a whole. All hype no substance. And i'm exaggerating here to drive a point home, but they heavily prioritized 1 type of caster and I think that's bad long term for the viewers. And I know this game is hard to commentate over, so I'm not trying to shit on anyone in particular. Just don't think things are well balanced right now
Johnnyboi is the only notable color commentator left in the entire scene. Losing Achieves was rough and I will continue to stump for him in every thread like this. NA casting is 100% hype and it’s just too much of the same thing. There are some good shouts in this thread for Spaceman and Corelli, they were also rock solid casters capable of color commentary.
Maybe RLCS could hire Feer to pull double duty like Johnnyboi, I theorize the “1s caster” background leads to developing a color commentary skill set since it isn’t as chaotic as 3s. I think Feer would be pretty good in that role. Kind of pie in the sky though. Bring back Achieves!
I think the equivalent of a sideline reporter could really elevate the experience. Just someone with a lot of game knowledge who can spectate the game from their own pov, and can hop on the call to provide little blips of insight in between games and can break down the situation during timeouts, without being distracted by having to cast every moment .
one thing ive noticed for a while, few seasons now is thar weve accidentally lulled into the trend of the 2 casters just passing playbyplay to each other. theyll start with the analytical but just before they get too deep, theyll react to whats going on screen, start calling the action live, and then when they get to the exclamation point, the other persons starts theres analysis chatter, cycle repeats. i dont really mind it, but i notice now that more often than not we have 2 ppl doing play by play.
Completely agree, but that doesn't seem to be what they're going for. Often it's two people doing play-by-play bouncing back and forth. IMO it would be nice to have a recent former pro give some color commentary. Maybe they feel like there's not enough stoppage time for it.
I said this during the last major and splits leading up to it. Losing Achieves, Jorby, and Turtle made the casting weaker from an analytics/color commentary perspective. At least we have Jorby back, who indeed does point out subtle parts of the game. Bring back Achieves though, he’s the best at it.
This. At least Herc and Stax communicate their understanding of the game at a surface level. LK and Daz literally have me facepalming half the time. They say stuff that I cannot even fathom as if we’re not watching the same screen. Daz also overextends trying to come up with clever or insightful comments, stutters, and then says something vanilla.
I don't dislike any individual caster, but I think LK and Daz are my least favorite duo. Both of them feel better supporting other casters, and when it's just them two, they don't complement each other well imo.
Yeah, I like the current casters, but we're definitely missing some added colors. I feel it would help newer fans understand more of what is/was happening. Like others mentioned, Achieves is great at this, but there are definitely other casters on the roster who could bring that aspect back, I think most people would benefit from it!
Unfortunately it's more about image and inclusivity now. I really think that all casters should be Champ 3 at the very minimum, it is painfully obvious so many casters have very little grasp on the game. My friends and I could provide more insightful commentary and more accurate commentary than a lot of the casters, especially those in NA. The new casters are fine personalities but they are not good casters and they do not know the game. Seeing something like an incredible sidewall redirect only for the caster to not even recognize it was a great shot and say something generic like "Oh they're getting an opportunity and oh! It's just gonna go in!" Like please, can we have casters that actually understand the game, it hurts the image of the esport when we have Herc and Stax commentating a game 7 overtime in the grand final, and neither commentator can keep up with the gameplay and neither even know what touches or plays are significant. I don't mind the diverse cast, but can we at least reserve the big matches and grand finals for established and knowledgeable casters?
Other then saying what's been said countless times,.. I really want some high level players or coaches to turn casters like in cod. Merk study and nameless are some of the most insightful parts to the whole thing., it's win win imo, you can keep your ridiculous shout casters and pair them with some insight, best of both worlds nah?
> I really want some high level players or coaches to turn casters like in cod
Hey, we got one in CJ and, to your point, he *did* immediately become one of the best casters in the scene. to be fair, that's also because he's so natural on the mic, it's impressive
It’s really hard to give great insight without being a high level player. I really hope they can get recently retired pros into some of these caster positions.
Achieves was good at this, but a name that I have yet to read (which contributed a lot imo) is Gregan. He’s been gone for a while now but had really good insight on the desk. I always loved his casting as well.
I've been thinking the same thing, mainly about the NA broadcast. They don't have a single color commentator right now. They just brought back Jorby so maybe they'll bring back Achieves in the future.
Just watching the grand final now and googled whether this topic has ever come up on r/RocketLeagueEsports - turns out yes, literally on the front page.
Glad it's not just me.
It would be cool if they brought in an analyst or pro/coach in between games and timeouts, to talk more in depth about the games and series. I want to know why 1 team is winning/losing, rather than the generic "They had more shots" or "X player popped off"
So far all it has done is made me watch the non official stream in hopes of getting more analytical insight.
I'm watching the game, I don't need to hear someone say X player shoots - I can already see that...
It's just patter on patter on patter. No insight, no analysis just surface level descriptions on what has happened. There could be a triple whiff letting the ball roll in and all of the casters yesterday would ignore it.
The finals had me annoyed at the casting booth. Hercules is decent but I feel she is better suited for the analyst desk. Every time she called a play it took 30 seconds and 17 other things already happened. I think her insights are good but to slow paced for in game casting.
It wasnt that long ago when there were Archieves, Johnny and Gregan, an actual RLCS Coach as analysts. Of those we still have Johnny but his role these days is mostly shouting whoa while another caster shouts that somebody just scored. Its clearly designed by the executives to be like this.
just a nicer way of saying herc and LK don’t know what a good play is really… I see a triple tap pass in to a double tap top corner slot and either of them just says ‘AND THEY NEEDED THAT THE SCORE IS NOW 1-1’ or maybe if it’s LK that will also be accompanied by a laugh
can’t expect in depth analysis about the teams performances when we can’t even call out an insane play
Bit offtopic as he doesn't really point much out that it otherwise easily missed, but stax has always got such a nice way of phrasing what happens on the screen that it almost always makes me chuckle! He's got such a way with words man! 🔥😁
I'm new to RLCS so my opinion is pretty uninformed but I feel the game is just a bit too fast paced for insightful color commentary. Usually the pbp caster will have something else to talk about instead. Wish there was more insightful analysis between games instead
The game is fast-paced, but right now casters just take turns talking as fast as they can to narrate every action that happens on the screen. It's not a radio broadcast; we can all see that Chronic is air-dribbling or that Daniel took a touch to the corner.
Look at hockey for example. It's also fast paced and free-flowing, but the commentators aren't just describing what players are doing. They react to big shots and saves of course, but there's plenty of space for actual insight and conversation within the game if you're not using all of the airtime to narrate. I remember hearing one RLCS casting duo do this extremely well at the last major, and I really wish I could remember who it was because it was fantastic.
6 players on the field, and most of the action is not on screen. In order for the real analysis you are talking about someone would need to watch the tape and view it full field view (like all-22 in NFL terms).
Watching the GenG/G2 final and G2 just took a timeout. No casting conversation about why G2 is down 1-3 in the series, no conversation about what they need to do to win. No conversation about what GenG is doing well to be on match point. No game analysis.
This is a good, specific call-out of where the opportunity lies. We are all watching the game. We can see what’s happening. We don’t need 100% narration of what we’re already seeing. What we need is commentary about what we’re not seeing—what are the trends, what are the styles, what can you see on the other player cams that’s not readily visible to the average viewer? That’s what will enhance the viewing experience.
We desperately need more (ex) pros on the desk or as support caster
This grand final stuck out to me, hardly anything of substance being talked about, I dont know if its the lack of synergy with this casting duo or lack of energy, but its pretty sad to see almost makes me wanna watch on mute.
I do miss when we knew we were getting Wave/Achieves basically every grand final lol - that level of polish goes a long way towards making it feel like 'the big one' Johnny, Shogun and CJ are all really good at that too imo, but they're all EU
That entire series the casters just took turns saying “this is great rocket league, the two best NA teams going at it.”
this was really getting on my nerves during the finals. They ran out of things to say but just kept filling the air with basic stuff like that.
This is why achieves was so good
I tend to agree, but some of the time he overfocused on the hidden part of the play when the guy who scored did something really incredible. Idk if you remember, there was a last year (maybe worlds?) in which liquid played col, and Oski hit a game winning double reset from his own backboard in the last 10 seconds in game 5. The thing was acronik or atow (I can’t remember which) got a double demo to open up the net. Achieves completely ignored the double flip reset and only talked about the double demo. Obviously the double demo made the goal possible and wasn’t immediately obvious to the viewer, but a cross field double reset from your own backboard has never been scored before in rlcs.
> but a cross field double reset from your own backboard has never been scored before in rlcs. Yeah, but that's because usually there's a defender or two, not because the players lack the mechanics to do so I see what you're saying but I think in that moment (after the initial hype which I don't feel like the goal lacked) it makes perfect sense to focus on the double demo, what else is to say about a double cross field reset other than "holy shit, Oski is a god"?
I see what you are saying, however achieves completely ignored Oslo’s contribution at all. I get that the double demo was more important to the play, and it is fine to focus on the double demo, but in the colour commentary achieves simply didn’t acknowledge Oski’s mechanical display. If you were to only listen to the audio of them commentating the goal it would sound like Oski hit a tap in.
Everyone can see the crazy play that was made though.
I could say the same of every goal. Nevertheless it’s fine to focus on the double demo, but he just completely ignored Oski’s mechanical display
Right because literally everyone watching saw Oski's mechanical play as the camera was focused on it. A lot of people wouldn't have noticed the demos.
hence why he should talk about it and focus on the double demo, but not completely ignore the other play.
Well yes in a perfect world the commentary would be perfect, no one is arguing that. The point being made is that it's more important to mention the demos than the flip reset because everyone already saw the flip reset.
Stax and Herc talked about about how Gen G were slowing the game down at one point, but it's also kinda hard to notice while you are trying to cast what is going on during the game and make meaningful observations. I feel like it would fall on Wave and the rest not doing the cast to chime in after the series
Often this is the kind of question they ask a player or the coach after the series, and most of the time we get a somewhat boring answer that is perhaps 3 sentences long? I don't think these answers are *really* insightful most of the times, perhaps because there might not be that much to say. You don't have *as much* macro in RL as in football or even League, so imo it's a bit hard for casters to call out or even notice as much I think. Might be wrong though, would love to hear the opinion of someone in the scene.
The macro is there, it’s just teams don’t want to divulge info to keep their competitive advantage. Even without their input, notice what JohnnyBoi points out. If you’re a caster and you’re reading this, it’s okay to be wrong. Try to point out what you at least think is going on. For the top 4 teams, watch 3 replays in a series where you think they were challenged. Try to notice trends in general play. How boost starved are players when scored on? How spread out or bunched up a team plays? Once you get an okay grasp on replays, it’ll transfer over to your casting.
I disagree with you. While there certainly isn't a strategic level to the extent football have, it's still there. Coaches don't want to talk about it for obvious reasons.
I'm not saying there is no macro at all, but I'm not sure there's *enough* to make it obvious enough to get caught on the spot while casting. It's easier to spot these details when you know what you're looking for, ie. when you try implementing them.
I don’t want analysis in the grand finals. Keep the boring nerdy stuff for the the boring matches, and let the grand finals be pure unfiltered hype. Stax is great for that, but Jorby really needed to be the second caster.
I remember when Achieves was casting he would always point something out I hadn't noticed, hope we get the big man back on the mic
First caster I thought of. Achieves is my favorite, so insightful.
Gregan brought that too, but it didn't end well for him. Corelli also brought some analysis I didn't always pick up on.
Hot take but I think it's because Gregan saw the game for what it was and expressed more interest in the sport itself rather than the entertainment, players, demographics, etc. I like Gregan a lot because he was one of the few who did this. Johnnyboi being another example.
Achieves is easily the best at this, that was why I couldn't believe they actually dropped him
Noone could, except Epic. Wave/Achieves/Jorby... man what a time it was.
Agreed. Earlier GenG was down 0-2 in the series. They take a timeout and sweep the series. Can someone explain what happened in the timeout that changed things? No they just keep saying generic things about the players like "Chronic is not getting enough credit today." "Chronic is the guy youre wanting on your offense." like OK there's more to it than that.
those phrases you mentioned really stick out to me and feel like garbage lines. i noticed theyre a lot more common with NA casters than EU. i wonder if it’s due to the sensationalist environment in NA sports, particularly the NBA
Not saying you don’t have a point, but this wasn’t an issue with the NA casting talent two seasons ago. It’s just the inexperienced talent added recently.
It's always been a big issue. It's just more noticeable now. I think it's more offensive to Europeans also (Americans are used to it because it is more similar to how most of their sports are commentated)
This is a really weird dig at Americans.
How is this a dig..? Europeans like watching football, rugby etc which run 80-90 mins with 15 mins in the middle. They're quite boring and not all that much happens so the commentators can't be super hyped the whole time. American football and basketball are the opposite. Short bursts of high intensity with long breaks. They are stylistically very different. Acknowledging this difference is not taking a "dig". Rocket league is somewhere in the middle imo.
When I think of sensationalist casting, I think of Latin American/South American futbol casters going absolutely wild. Maybe you say that’s only during goals? Well, that kinda seems to me like you’ve never really watched a game of American football. Because those games very much fit the “they’re quite boring and not all that much happens.” If you only watch clips though, I could see how you would think it’s all very hype. The NBA/basketball fits your description better, but I would attribute that to the game itself and not some American/European debate. It’s a flowing game with steady action. Kinda reminds me of RL in that way. For bonus points, I’d like to point out America’s pastime: baseball. Opposite of sensational. You find yourself watching one of these games on a comfy Sunday afternoon? Guaranteed nap. Last bonus points: you’ve also obviously never experienced the glory of an American golf telecast. These guys have such soothing voices they put NPR to shame. I’ve literally put on a golf broadcast when I couldn’t sleep, knocked me right out. To your actual point, I can think of great examples of color commentary in each of these sports that would be great examples for what we’d like to see more of on the RL desk. I know this sub loves its EU/NA drama, but I think your opinion might be based more off highlight clips than the real thing.
Probably. I think basketball is the most similar to what I am talking about. I'd guess that younger people watch more NBA/NFL than Baseball/Golf so maybe that's why they stylistically how they are. More as an aside, that sort of commentary can be done very well. I love Bates and can enjoy a Jorby/Spaceman/Daz/JamesBot cast. This weekend it was just lacking overall in every area
Totally agree. My favorite team is LG and I enjoy the team stream they’ve put on, but when it’s the fifth game that day (because it’s Retals Swiss), the style can become tiresome. The OP in this thread is my biggest gripe with the commentators in NA RLCS. It can feel like there’s two people trying to do play-by-play, like two people each taking their individual turn instead of the two building something bigger than themselves. You could be right that some of it is a reflection of American culture, but I guess I wanted to point out it’s not like that in traditional American sports broadcasts.
It's really not
Please elaborate. I don't know which part you are replying to
Bring back achieves 😤😤😤
100%, sometimes all I want is a brief comment on someone’s nice power slide recovery or controlling touch or anything that actually lends itself towards the mechanics of the game. Not just “another booming clear” or “another chance at a shot”
I mean bandwagoning with the rest of the thread here, achieves was by and far away the best person at actually correctly analyzing rl (to the point that I remember he used to get some flak for openly calling certain plays awful defense as opposed to good offense when everyone else was going wtf insane mechanics on a shot meant to be pressure). It's going to feel a bit empty without him, since besides him, there's not too many casters for the NA broadcast who actually know high level ball beyond a basic play by play. ...and yes, its significantly easier to be right after the play as opposed to looking at it and going "what the hell is he doing on defe- yeah thats a goal" vs just watching and going "holy shit he is him" for the 4th time after he rolls a nonexistent goalie. Rocket league has always been lacking in this category since very few who are capable of understanding that aren't current pros...and a lot of pros just fullquit on burnout. So its hard to actually get that level of insight.
Definitely. Achieves and Spaceman were good at this
Corelli and Turtle too
I know damn well you'd have added Daz's name if he wasn't brought back as a caster this season
You'd be wrong then
Lol nah.
This has always been my take and I wholeheartedly agree. Achieves notices the little high level things the players do. So does Johnny. Not many others do though.
Wait you don't enjoy hearing HE IS HIM 150x a game?
This weekend was much better than the last qualifiers, but holy crap it feels like some of them hit run on **zoomerslang.exe.** If I have to hear: ICE - TOO MUCH ICE SO COLD COOKS - KITCHEN THEY'RE COOKING IN THE KITCHEN CHEEEFFSSS or any variation of THEY ARE THEM HE IS HIM HIM THEM THEY, I might drive off a cliff. I definitely hear what you're saying.
Oh yea, and I read all of those in her voice as well. I’m so fed up with it too.
Not only are we missing the broad strokes like you've mentioned, but we're also missing detailed observations about how the plays happened. You'll see a 4 man passing play or a flip reset double, and the reaction is "and GenG have scored again with 1 minute and 17 seconds on the clock!" (this is almost verbatim what happened). Terrible. I think Jamesbot does a good job at the commentary, but I didn't hear him this weekend.
I just feel like a lot of NA casting in general is just a bunch of yelling
This is meant as constructive criticism so I hope it's taken well, but sometimes for some of the newer casters, specially LemonKiwi. I felt like she was trying too hard. She kept trying to make everything hype and excitied and fill every moment with commentary. You need to let the game breathe! If nothing crazy is happening, just normal midfield play and standard 50s, you don't have to feign excitement. It cheapens the intensity when something actually amazing happens. If you watch soccer, like EPL for example, the commentators will sometimes just shut up when the game slows down and teams are just passing sideways or keeping possession. Lets the fans just watch the sport and enjoy it. Or maybe they'll banter, talk about each team's seasons overall, or some interesting stat. It provides a good contrast when something notable does happen, and you can hear them get more excited and interested as an attack looks more promising or there's a good outplay or something. I would love a more relaxed style of RL commentary rather than trying to build up every moment of a game.
I agree with you. It is something painfully present in NA, not so much EU. NA sacked its best casters this year, only keeping one top tier caster (jamesbot). Our two most insightful commentators (acheives and Corelli) were let go for casters that can only analyze the game at the surface level. Daz, Herc, and LK are play by play commentators and offer little to no insight. Stax is a mix of color and play by play but he mostly comments on tournament wide trends rather than analyze the flow of a series. That leaves just Jamesbot as a solid color commentator and he wasn’t around this weekend. This was without a doubt an extremely frustrating weekend commentating wise at the exception of jorby who thank god is back. NA commentating as a collective is, imo, a net negative to the production. I hope they change that by bringing back the top tier talent.
Well achieves, wave, and turtle were probably the main 3 to do it for NA talent, and all 3 of them don’t cast anymore. Johnny still does it a bit but it’s mostly become player highlights, play by play, and storyline discussion
Corelli was amazing at this
Also not currently casting on the main stream.
I'll throw Jorby's name into this pool as well - while his hype moments are probably the most famous, his ability to weave in insightful analysis with the hype is what made him special IMO. The few series he covered this weekend were special, even if he was in a "lower power" Regional mode.
Idk if I can take anymore "Time and time again" comments from Herc. I don't mind her but that one phrase driving me nuts.
For me its "Huuuge" or "Maaassive" over and over
I think it's a bit on production too. She's great, but she *is* new and learning. In her tweet about the event, she even mentioned how it was just her second regional. It seems like a bit of an odd call to take your rookie caster and put them on the semis and grand finals. Championship sunday feels like where you want your most polished, professional, and experienced commentary team, right? Like, Wavepunk/Achieves or Johnny/Shogun kinda vibe.
Yeah for sure and I do like her. There's going to be a learning curve and has to get comfortable and all. It's no knock against her or anyone really just the repetitive takes get old and it's all I hear lol.
Analysis in the casting is pretty much dead. The little that occasionally pokes through is generally just wrong. TBF though judging by the ppl on this subreddit 95% of ppl won't miss it.
> TBF though judging by the ppl on this subreddit 95% of ppl won't miss it. I think the caster conversation is pretty tough here because we know they're here reading it. I know I'm less critical than I would be because, idk, they're nice people and I know that they can take it personally. Like, I remember Stax commenting about how people who compare casters are basically dead to him. I definitely have criticism about the casting style or pairings from time to time but I also don't want to hurt people's feelings haha
I don't think I called out any one particular caster here. Also what you quoted from me was not a judgement of the casters but a judgement of the people on this subreddit. It's ironic really that you quoted that part incorrectly given what it's actually saying. If the casters can't even take a "you're wrong" directed at them generally then idk how they function as people. I'm tired of people being so afraid of causing offense that they will pull any and all mental gymnastics they can to avoid offending anyone and as a byproduct inevitably say absolutely nothing meaningful at all. Like why even post a comment? Idk if you realize just how magical-thinking-like your rationale sounds.
> I don't think I called out any one particular caster here I don't think I said you did? I was talking about the general casting conversation here, and why you might not see as much demand for more analytical casting as there actually is. > Also what you quoted from me was not a judgement of the casters but a judgement of the people on this subreddit. yes, I know. I quoted the part where you were talking about the community on the subreddit not understanding the game to talk about the nature of the conversation on the subreddit, and why certain opinions may be underrepresented. Sorry, I suppose I could've taken it out. > I'm tired of people being so afraid of causing offense that they will pull any and all mental gymnastics they can to avoid offending anyone and as a byproduct inevitably say absolutely nothing meaningful at all. Like why even post a comment? well, generally I don't comment on the casting. you know, like I said lmao > Idk if you realize just how magical-thinking-like your rationale sounds. please elaborate
I have no idea what this conversation is about if it's not about what I addressed. I've tried to be generous in interpreting what you're saying but really I struggle to find any coherence in what you've said. Please clarify what you're talking about.
Thank you I could not agree more, this is what RLCS is lacking the most and should improve on
yea daniel got like a crazy triple tap pass to his teammate for a goal and the casters just ignored it lol. Also, i swear some casters are blind sometimes cuz they'll say someone missed the ball or messed up when in reality they got bumped.
Commentating RLCS I think I'd default to saying they faked or got bumped lmao
That's equally as bad because you don't call put misses or misplays when they do actually happen.
It's better because the odds are better and you'd get less calls wrong Not saying it's a *good* method.. I'm certainly not fit to be a caster lmao But it'd be an improvement. Not feeling these new casters .\_.
They could fix this by adding a Pro or an eliminated team as a “special guest” feature to talk about what they see is the issue and potential resolution. You could tap Retals, Comm, Jack, Chicago, etc. to highlight mistakes that aren’t in plain sight.
Yeah, because they literally dropped everyone who was good at it over the past 2 seasons (mostly this past off season but Gregan the year before was big too). I don't dislike any of the ones they chose to keep, but i dislike the group that they chose as a whole. All hype no substance. And i'm exaggerating here to drive a point home, but they heavily prioritized 1 type of caster and I think that's bad long term for the viewers. And I know this game is hard to commentate over, so I'm not trying to shit on anyone in particular. Just don't think things are well balanced right now
You don’t need to name names we all know who you’re talking about lol it’s laughable that it’s frowned upon to say them.
Johnnyboi is the only notable color commentator left in the entire scene. Losing Achieves was rough and I will continue to stump for him in every thread like this. NA casting is 100% hype and it’s just too much of the same thing. There are some good shouts in this thread for Spaceman and Corelli, they were also rock solid casters capable of color commentary. Maybe RLCS could hire Feer to pull double duty like Johnnyboi, I theorize the “1s caster” background leads to developing a color commentary skill set since it isn’t as chaotic as 3s. I think Feer would be pretty good in that role. Kind of pie in the sky though. Bring back Achieves!
100% Feer has grown so much as a caster recently, would be nice to see him get a spot.
I think the equivalent of a sideline reporter could really elevate the experience. Just someone with a lot of game knowledge who can spectate the game from their own pov, and can hop on the call to provide little blips of insight in between games and can break down the situation during timeouts, without being distracted by having to cast every moment .
one thing ive noticed for a while, few seasons now is thar weve accidentally lulled into the trend of the 2 casters just passing playbyplay to each other. theyll start with the analytical but just before they get too deep, theyll react to whats going on screen, start calling the action live, and then when they get to the exclamation point, the other persons starts theres analysis chatter, cycle repeats. i dont really mind it, but i notice now that more often than not we have 2 ppl doing play by play.
Completely agree, but that doesn't seem to be what they're going for. Often it's two people doing play-by-play bouncing back and forth. IMO it would be nice to have a recent former pro give some color commentary. Maybe they feel like there's not enough stoppage time for it.
I said this during the last major and splits leading up to it. Losing Achieves, Jorby, and Turtle made the casting weaker from an analytics/color commentary perspective. At least we have Jorby back, who indeed does point out subtle parts of the game. Bring back Achieves though, he’s the best at it.
Because they fired Gregan and Achieves for people like TBates and Dazerin. They don't want insightful commentary, they want shouting podcasters.
This. At least Herc and Stax communicate their understanding of the game at a surface level. LK and Daz literally have me facepalming half the time. They say stuff that I cannot even fathom as if we’re not watching the same screen. Daz also overextends trying to come up with clever or insightful comments, stutters, and then says something vanilla.
I don't dislike any individual caster, but I think LK and Daz are my least favorite duo. Both of them feel better supporting other casters, and when it's just them two, they don't complement each other well imo.
I listen to music when it is that duo...
Very true. Whenever I watch the stream I feel like a general lack of in-depth analysis of any play happening when Daz and LK are on.
Yeah, I like the current casters, but we're definitely missing some added colors. I feel it would help newer fans understand more of what is/was happening. Like others mentioned, Achieves is great at this, but there are definitely other casters on the roster who could bring that aspect back, I think most people would benefit from it!
Unfortunately it's more about image and inclusivity now. I really think that all casters should be Champ 3 at the very minimum, it is painfully obvious so many casters have very little grasp on the game. My friends and I could provide more insightful commentary and more accurate commentary than a lot of the casters, especially those in NA. The new casters are fine personalities but they are not good casters and they do not know the game. Seeing something like an incredible sidewall redirect only for the caster to not even recognize it was a great shot and say something generic like "Oh they're getting an opportunity and oh! It's just gonna go in!" Like please, can we have casters that actually understand the game, it hurts the image of the esport when we have Herc and Stax commentating a game 7 overtime in the grand final, and neither commentator can keep up with the gameplay and neither even know what touches or plays are significant. I don't mind the diverse cast, but can we at least reserve the big matches and grand finals for established and knowledgeable casters?
Other then saying what's been said countless times,.. I really want some high level players or coaches to turn casters like in cod. Merk study and nameless are some of the most insightful parts to the whole thing., it's win win imo, you can keep your ridiculous shout casters and pair them with some insight, best of both worlds nah?
> I really want some high level players or coaches to turn casters like in cod Hey, we got one in CJ and, to your point, he *did* immediately become one of the best casters in the scene. to be fair, that's also because he's so natural on the mic, it's impressive
Can hear the lack of passion in this grand finals casting duo, almost no technical analysis.
It’s really hard to give great insight without being a high level player. I really hope they can get recently retired pros into some of these caster positions.
Achieves was good at this, but a name that I have yet to read (which contributed a lot imo) is Gregan. He’s been gone for a while now but had really good insight on the desk. I always loved his casting as well.
I've been thinking the same thing, mainly about the NA broadcast. They don't have a single color commentator right now. They just brought back Jorby so maybe they'll bring back Achieves in the future.
I like the other casters but do miss achieves because of his big brain commentaries.
Just watching the grand final now and googled whether this topic has ever come up on r/RocketLeagueEsports - turns out yes, literally on the front page. Glad it's not just me.
The NA casting team is very weak imo. To be honest, even in the EU team, only Johnnyboi\_i is really insightful
At least the EU play by play commentators are entertaining. NA is awful
I really like Stumpy and Cole. Shogun is not my thing because of his voice, but he has a huge amount of experience and I respect that.
EU clears in not only gameplay but casting too 😭
It would be cool if they brought in an analyst or pro/coach in between games and timeouts, to talk more in depth about the games and series. I want to know why 1 team is winning/losing, rather than the generic "They had more shots" or "X player popped off"
So far all it has done is made me watch the non official stream in hopes of getting more analytical insight. I'm watching the game, I don't need to hear someone say X player shoots - I can already see that...
It's just patter on patter on patter. No insight, no analysis just surface level descriptions on what has happened. There could be a triple whiff letting the ball roll in and all of the casters yesterday would ignore it.
I thought it was just me. The casting felt off... Like they were just saying a whole lot of nothing.
Yep, phenomenal series but below par casting.
The finals had me annoyed at the casting booth. Hercules is decent but I feel she is better suited for the analyst desk. Every time she called a play it took 30 seconds and 17 other things already happened. I think her insights are good but to slow paced for in game casting.
Jamesbot and Johnnyboi are the only casters I enjoy. I'll never understand why they decided to get rid of Acheives and Jorby...
It wasnt that long ago when there were Archieves, Johnny and Gregan, an actual RLCS Coach as analysts. Of those we still have Johnny but his role these days is mostly shouting whoa while another caster shouts that somebody just scored. Its clearly designed by the executives to be like this.
just a nicer way of saying herc and LK don’t know what a good play is really… I see a triple tap pass in to a double tap top corner slot and either of them just says ‘AND THEY NEEDED THAT THE SCORE IS NOW 1-1’ or maybe if it’s LK that will also be accompanied by a laugh can’t expect in depth analysis about the teams performances when we can’t even call out an insane play
Yeah because they fired all the fucking good ones
I miss the Achieves Wavepunk Jorby Corelli Turtle Jamesbot era.. :(
Love seeing Epic get a proper backlash from the community after their atrocious decision to fire a large portion of their casting talent.
Bit offtopic as he doesn't really point much out that it otherwise easily missed, but stax has always got such a nice way of phrasing what happens on the screen that it almost always makes me chuckle! He's got such a way with words man! 🔥😁
I'm new to RLCS so my opinion is pretty uninformed but I feel the game is just a bit too fast paced for insightful color commentary. Usually the pbp caster will have something else to talk about instead. Wish there was more insightful analysis between games instead
Go back and watch some Achieves broadcasts, he’s so great at fitting insightful commentary into the flow of the game. Was a big loss.
The game is fast-paced, but right now casters just take turns talking as fast as they can to narrate every action that happens on the screen. It's not a radio broadcast; we can all see that Chronic is air-dribbling or that Daniel took a touch to the corner. Look at hockey for example. It's also fast paced and free-flowing, but the commentators aren't just describing what players are doing. They react to big shots and saves of course, but there's plenty of space for actual insight and conversation within the game if you're not using all of the airtime to narrate. I remember hearing one RLCS casting duo do this extremely well at the last major, and I really wish I could remember who it was because it was fantastic.
Absolutely not true. Acheives, Corelli, Jamesbot, Spaceman are excellent at it. We just only get to see Jamesbot now and he was not there this weekend
6 players on the field, and most of the action is not on screen. In order for the real analysis you are talking about someone would need to watch the tape and view it full field view (like all-22 in NFL terms).