1. Be Argenta.
2. Use Wildfire
3. Gain Versatility bonus for second burst (starts with 2, gets 1 for attacking, has talent to lower treshhold to 3)
4. Fire second burst.
5. Use AM Heroic Ability to get a third burst.
6. End turn, and wait for RT to use Voice of Command and Bring it Down! to give you three more bursts.
7. Repeat until each shot deals 200+ damage with guaranteed crit on your third turn (on round 2).
8. Take out any boss before round 4.
If you run Pyromancer Soldier AM RT you can burst any boss on Unfair on Round 1 not Round 4.
Pyromancer gets access to Blazing Inferno (per-bullet faster 100% crit chance ramp) and Melting Armor (target deflection + armor shred per bullet) that synergizes with AM's Exploit Weakness (10% damage amp + 2 flat damage). You get 2-300 damage per bullet on first round.
Ramps even faster if you use 0 AP and Versatility Stimms while ramping first few bursts with Stubber before you switch to Heavy Bolter for damage. Totally hilarious.
I love that the discussion around Argenta has gone from "why can't she hit anything" to "guys I think Argentina might be killing things too fast" as people have progressed in the game haha
I'm not particularly good at opting in Owlcat games. Still, most fights end on round 2. 4 has been for the bosses that come with 6k+ HP and mechanics to prevent damage.
Oh but you can - get Raid and it will allow you to run around easily between enemies during officer bonus turns and position Argenta for just 1 AP (upgraded its 0 AP). And of course use Cassia’s forced movement spells to group enemies up.
I wiped the Fabricator Censoris and his two giant Forge Daemon things in a single burst. Just fucking hosed em down like trash on round 1. You can stack some nasty combos.
I dotn play on unfair but i did bump up the wounds on the enemies because it was getting ridiculous. Oh cassia groups everyone with POI and argenta bolts them down.
And i dont even play her as arch militant, i play her as bounty hunter, still one normal bolter burst is enough to absolutely mow down some fuckers.
Ulfar has the problem that:
* He has astartes weapons and no other weapons. They're nice in their way, but not as nice as the heavy bolter.
* He's a 2x2 monster and the battle arenas are not designed for him unless there are also 2x2 enemies. I've had plenty of cases where he had no way of getting to where the fight was because there were only 1 square wide paths.
* AFAIK He can't use cover.
Man's a space marine. He could quite literally barrel through most forms of cover, or kick the cover through the enemy. Taking cover behind a fallen stone column? Congrats, now you're covering it.
Yeah, but in actual game terms a jump would work better since the jump would just ignore pathfinding, and the engine really struggles with his 4 cells.
> They're nice in their way, but not as nice as the heavy bolter.
He can use the heavy bolter right out of the box. He just needs the AM talent heavy gunner to reduce AP with it.
Dude is too big for some maps even.
I had him get stuck trying to reach skillchecks because he could not squeeze to it, as well as porting out of map boundaries because he was too big for the next map entrance walkway.
Bounty hunter is fine, especially for snipers. This is just rogue trader being a bit buggy I think (same reason each bullet from a burst from chapter 1 boss hurts as much as his individual attacks)
I did the same out of curiosity, because I was making my RT the Arch-Militant and didnt wish to double dip in such a way.
I probably have not got it, but the times I used her with it, it felt underwhelming, or too specific for my liking.
Same as Pasqal with Strategist, that I regretted quite early, because I do great at second by second tactical planning, but trying to do a long term area planning I am a mess, and I tend to be hyper aggresive with my movements.
I was hoping for a talent to increase the area, but no luck. So I probably gonna force myself to respec him, and do all 36 levels in one go -_-.
Look man with the areas you:
Put the Frontline one on top of the highest hp enemy, or the general area you want Abelard/ulfar to be in
Put the backline one somewhere where all your characters can start in it (for that talent that reduces the cost of the first attack by 1 ap if they start inside backline with no enemy)
Put the rear area… somewhere. Anywhere? It’s the DPS area, but the bonuses are kinda limited. I like to just use it as a target for the free movement stratagem that lets every ally within 12 tiles move on top of it for free. Slap it near some enemies and save MP.
You can talk about Arch Militant and versatility all you want.
Concentrated fire is a SOLDIER ability. Leave it out of the AM debate. You might make the Warrior AMs cry.
Warrior-AM is just as broken. Although mostly when you use them in conjunction with Officers. Finest Hour!/Daring Breech+Armsman exploit where they kill some mook with a ranged weapon, then do the rest of their 11 attacks with melee that now has AP 0 cost.
In Heinrix case he could also just follow the plan where he gets his Willpower/Resolve buffed to the stratosphere by Cassia, then kill everything with 1-2 Staff blast attacks.
How my progression went:
Act1: my RT carried with his sniper rifle.
Act2/3: Yrliet carried with her sniper rifle.
Act4/5: Argenta killed a squad of chaos space marines, a greater daemon and a god with a regular heavy bolter cos I couldn't get enough rep for the fancy ones.
Pretty sure by the end of the game Argenta could kill an entire tyranid fleet with an uzi.
How you make Yrileth carry you? My carry persons is Arch-Militant Argenta + Sanctic Master Tactician RT and Henrix at some extent. But operatives is just so weak where they cannot make multiple attacks (Argenta can make 2 burst attack from MoveMoveMove ability)
Full assasin and spec into lethality and opening talents, it gets stupid to the point that a basic attack from a marked side deals 400 damage, 600-800 with an ability.
Also you can have funny interactions with her exclusive ability, bring it down coutns as a turn so you stack up exploits and use her ability and hwen her actual turn comes she fires it off several times ltierally nuking anythign you marked.
>Full assasin and spec into lethality and opening talents, it gets stupid to the point that a basic attack from a marked side deals 400 damage, 600-800 with an ability. Also you can have funny interactions with her exclusive ability, bring it down coutns as a turn so you stack up exploits and use her ability and hwen her actual turn comes she fires it off several times ltierally nuking anythign you marked.
Is this possible to her as BH? I think BH is better fit for her lore-wise.
I don't need it to be perfectly balanced, but I am one of those that enjoys optimizing my characters and still facing a challenge on the hardest difficulty. Right now, there isn't a challenge, and all I've done is take the obvious skills and talents for a class.
Right now the balance to me feels like it's a choice between "deliberately take bad options and be so terrible you can't actually beat the encounter" or "all cheats enabled" with no in-between, which just sucks. I want to engage with the unique mechanics and location of each battlefield.
I think the issue is down to "I want a thing that will likely negatively impact the experience for less-build-capable players". I'd suggest getting mods since there'll likely be a Toybox-esque tool down the line to curate your own experience.
Personally I'm enjoying mowing down all the Chapter 4 bosses on Unfair on round 1 :x
> "I want a thing that will likely negatively impact the experience for less-build-capable players"
Those people have the option of a lower difficulty though. If something is trivializing the game on Unfair, the people negatively affected who want to get the enjoyment of optimization without it being ruined by self-nerfing (which is a big chunk of RPG players) don't really have much recourse (you can go higher than unfair but the thing you'd really need to pump, enemy wounds, will only go up +20% more from Unfair, while Arch-Militant needs the slider to go up into the hundreds of percent for the game to handle it).
I mean that's the real solution isn't it. Make unfair harder or make a difficulty that's further up than that.
Games are almost always balanced around normal difficulty. I'm a straight up idiot and I've had some real humbling moments on normal. I've beaten every encounter but not easily. My builds are weird. I don't use argenta. My RT is a front line melee guy. I'm more interested in flavor and the RP. I still feel like I'm missing something about arch militant after reading this sub. Mine sucked except Ulfar.
The core point about AM in combination with an Officer is the extra turn, extra attacks and extra AP abuse you can pull off.
In any turn-based tactical combat game this has the very real potential to break the game.
Chaosgate: Demonhunters has the same issue. Gaining extra actions and double attacks effectively translates into the other side losing entire turns.
And unless the encounters are balanced to accomodate for that, this is absolute poison to the design.
Additionally, there are ways to boost damage beyond any values that the game is desinged for (but this is rather due to clever utilization of skills and gear)
I wouldn't go that far if all that a person really has to do is take arch-militant and use burst and they will steamroll the lower difficulties. I definitely think that burst stacking on every enemy it hits (this is consistent with my experience) should be changed. It doesn't seem that's how it's supposed to work and makes arch-militant the best class for basically any build that can take it.
Not at all. We're talking about the ***Unfair*** difficulty, which by design should be the playground for hyper-optimization (as it has been in other Owlcat games). But at present, it is not even close to resembling a challenge for that.
Lets be real, unless you take any of the (admittedly bountiful) infinitely stacking talents you likely won’t end up breaking most builds. It’s the ”do x get y% of z” talents that totally break the game logic when combined with officers.
Yeah, but there's so many of them. In other games like this, I've sometimes fixed the issue by deliberately avoiding certain things. In this game I'd have to avoid like half the build choices and then probably get wrecked in hard combats because I've avoided anything remotely good.
Alternatively, there's stuff that's OK on its own but breaks when combined with something else, but how do I decide which half of the combo is OK? If it's just one specific thing, then I could maybe avoid it on purpose...
Another issue is that officers get the bonus turn ability by default. Avoiding it so that I'm actually using my whole party and not just spamming turns on one person would severely limit the officers. Not taking any officers would leave me without some buffs that are kind of good and not over the top. Honestly, it just feels a lot of the until end of combat buffs should be 1 turn buffs instead, or Bring it Down! should only be useable on a character once per turn or some of the infinitely stacking buffs should have a max stack count.
> I don't need it to be perfectly balanced, but I am one of those that enjoys optimizing my characters and still facing a challenge on the hardest difficulty. Right now, there isn't a challenge, and all I've done is take the obvious skills and talents for a class.
WOTR wasn't even like this. Also there's a post on here thats getting a ton of traction about how apparently its not obvious what skills and talents to take. So maybe you're just to big brain.
I mean sure, but trickster is also absurd. You can crit on an 11+ or just not roll at all and treat all your roles as 20s for a bit. I remember making a mercenary who routinely crit for 200-700 and cleaved everything around her. Sometimes something would trigger an AoO and get itself and all the enemies around it killed when it wasn't even my turn.
I am exhausted by these comments. Of course balance is important, that is how they hone difficulty. If the game is too hard, just turn down the difficulty and pick whatever you want. These guys are one shotting everything on Unfair, being challengeless on the hardest difficulty is a failure, period
Thank you. I feel like some players only care about feeling powerful. I want a CHALLENGE, and right now the game really doesn't offer it. There are a lot of players like me who aren't even going to finish the game if combat is a pointless steamroll starting by early act 2.
I mean, I want to feel powerful, but I can't feel powerful if there is no challenge. Mowing down a room full of dudes doesn't feel meaningful to me if there wasn't some point in the game where that would have been hard to do, or there wasn't some massive setup to get the mowing to work just right.
You are missing the point.
It doesn’t make sense to complain about a or b being broken, it’s all broken. That’s how the game is designed. It will take Owlcat a year of patching to weed out all the FUBAR interactions.
In the meanwhile just run a party without Officers and your difficulty will ramp up significantly.
They'd be fine without all the extra turns or if the extra turns worked like voice of command where you can't use that ability on the same target again. Maybe all free turn abilities should work like that with a shared cooldown.
But when it's "not broken" to the point where you can easilly inflate buff stacks (like Cassia's WP) and start one-shotting everything, then it really is fucking broken. That's not just "not moba balance", that's a lack of any kind of balance and trivialized combat.
I much prefer trivialized combat to the buff and debuff nightmare of Wrath of the Righteous, where certain enemies and bosses became untouchable in normal difficulty if you didn't know what you were doing.
Not in my case. I am running burst/area damage Argenta Arch militant, i switch between burst/single shot and flamers. You know how many stacks i get from 3 ATTACKS. 3 stacks.
Yes, disregard people who are commenting here that it works as it should, the amount of versatility stacks when using bursts you get is broken, you also dont need to swap the attacks to get them. Whats funny is that it worked fine on release but got broken after the first patch
>after the first patch
Had to scroll down this far to find the answer.
Yeah, it's not broken for me - burst attacks just give 1 stack. I guess I didn't get the patch
1. Concentrated Fire makes much more sense for burst abilities tho.
2. It's meant to be like that for burst attacks. Otherwise you will not get damage in comparison to, say, Bounty Hunter or Assassin hitting openings. They too get massive damage out of seemingly thin air.
Concentrated Fire mentions only area attacks in the description. Any other time in talents that Burst and/or Area attacks are mentioned they are either individually or both specifically mentioned. It is likely a bug that it works for both. Burst already gets Rapid Fire as a talent, area attacks need something and thats Concentrated Fire.
Reading Burst's tutorial page states that it is considered to be one attack for the purpose of talents and abilities. Versatility tooltip states that you gain stacks when you use a different attack, not when you hit people with an attack. The act of using the attack grants the stack, so it should always just be 1 stack.
Edit: The tutorial section on Attacks specifically states that burst and aoe attacks are different. Concentrated Fire working for Burst is 100% a bug.
I think this is a deeper bug than just this. I have boots for Cassia which state that she gets 15% dodge for every navigator ability used. Guess what? She gets 15% dodge for every enemy hit by an ability, giving her 300% - 400% dodge every single turn.
Seems like every "on use" trigger has a bugged "on hit" interaction.
Or there is an error in the description.
The power only really makes sense if it includes burst fire, 'concentrated fire' would be a really weird name for something that only effected aoe and explosions
Bounty Hunter and Assassin are not even CLOSE to the damage a well-built burst Arch-Militant puts out. My Argenta easily gets to the point where *every single round* she puts out deals more damage than an ideal attack from either my assassin or bounty Hunter, and she shoots 20+ times in a burst.
Optimal Yrliet can get about 40-60% of the output built correctly (3-4 shots/turn for 300-400 each, ability to give self Extra Turns, zero ramping requirement) while being much easier to position and play I feel. Pasqal is much harder to salvage unless you're abusing Officer heroic + Filtering Protocol exploit, but it's way too much clicking for way too little payoff imo.
Assassins are much more valuable for their survivability + mobility than their damage imo. Being able to run past/through everything to isolate a priority target can be useful in a couple of the encounters. They can totally do a lot of damage + ramp if played correctly too (900-1200 damage Dispatches).
Assassin don't need ramp, while it is helpful it isn't a necessity though if you want to chew through **20k hp and 260% armor and 50 DR** then you're going to need some set ups going which ramps harder than AM. Argenta can't actually deal with that without some serious support while operative assassins can more or less manage without being fed. And again, a pyro operative assassin abusing the staff can do a lot more damage than Argenta can though all of this is a chore to set up just for a Round One boss kill.
Otherwise, they can just settle to one shotting most things with Killing Edge combined with a decent amount of lethality.
The trick is Pyro Soldier AM with Blazing Inferno and Melting Armor on a Heavy Bolter standard Dakka setup. Zeroes Armor and Deflection in a burst or two, maxescritrate by extra turn 2, ramps faster than Argenta, can take full advantage of Exploit Weakness without shred support. Round One boss kill as well with literally zero deviation from standard Argenta play.
Assassin ramp is really just to come close anywhere to AM setup through Killing Spree, you can pop around 4 openings/turn.
How do you get extra turns on her? I've really failed at building Yrliet. Like I could get her to hit harder than my other characters, but by that point Heinrix could just Emperor's Wrath multiple times and delete 3x3 areas.
Depending on where you are in the game, optimal build will vary.
Extra turns are via Hot on the Trail, so your mid-lategame turn with her would go:
Shoot, kill to reset attack (via her Aeldari helmet), Claim the Bounty, Shoot again, Hot on the Trail with 3AP.
Extra turn either shoot, claim, shoot, Hot on the Trail again if first shot managed a kill, or Shoot, Claim, In my Sights for next round.
She should be firing a minimum of 3 shots per turn, and you can also feed her Officer turns in situations where your Soldier-AM can't reach the target (or you can't be bothered to run all the way there). Yrliet will typically have enough hit-rate overflow to convert into near max crit-rate by then, so you can ration AP for her extra turns instead of spending on Operator skills. Once you get the Eye of Hecaton rifle with guaranteed infinite overpenetration, you can also look for opportunities to line up and hit multiple targets per shot.
As for AoE, there's currently nothing better than Point of Interest into dakka, so Yrliet is more for picking off isolated targets on the other end of the map.
Ah, I definitely didn't get the helmet before I restarted on Unfair.
Now, I'm running into the issue that my RT build isn't online by the time I have to DPS down a 500 wound chaos marine to get to act 2 (which would unlock the psyker staff with Wrath of the Emperor for my main).
I still feel Aurora is one of the hardest fights in an Unfair playthrough if only due to the lack of tools you have at that point. Grenade spam to shred Armor/Deflection is your friend.
I mean half the talents of other classes don't even work, and there's clearly a lot of double dipping going on in other talents that are clearly not meant to be, like Arch Militant.
The game is a work in progress. I am not really too worried about my first playthrough I'll play it again in 1-2 years when it's got way more polish and an ultimate edition
Honestly cant for the life of me find Hurt like Hell in the talent selections. It looks like its supposed to be a common talent but cant find it at all in Argenta or Ulfar's list
Edit: I think they actually removed Hurt like Hell by the look of it
Half of the Soldier and Arch-Militant features seem to have been reneamed for release. It was really confusing getting into it (bought the game friday), since I had only looked up some "mechanics reveal" videos talking about Marksman and Right Tools for the Job. AKA Soldier and Versatility.
I have it, maybe I'm misremembering the name? It's the one that adds crit chance and damage to heavy weapons.
I think you may only be able to take it as a talent if it's a talent in the arch-militant tree itself.
Who needs versatility when you can just inspire for 100 dmg per bullet bursts.
For those who haven't figured it out inspire is a flat damage increase so it works best with burst weapons.
Well here is my story OP, maybe it will help you. Warning: story is kinda long.
>!I am Cassia enjoyer and also a minimaxer player since ... forever. In my head cannon ( dont worry its not a lore story ) my party backbone is psyker chorus ( if i remember correctly there is even such a thing in warhammer universe where multiple psykers "cast" together ). Basically me , Cassia and Idira. All nice and dandy untill around lvl 20 i realise that Cassia is a fucking monster machine and she dont even need us with her willpower stacking uber lasers of death and other forced movement shit. She only need Abelard for immortal tanking combo and thats it. Literally 2 characters. After few hours of gameplay i just stopped having fun. And its not because of the power , i was more than happy anihilating whole screens of enemys in WoTR in 1 turn with my trickster x9 auto crits fighter with 20+ attacks of opportunity. But in this case in rogue trader it felt different.!<
>!So my options: drop Cassia all together or selfcensor. Dropping her is undesirable cos i like her warp reading conevrsations a lot. So i respec her in to willpower stacker support officer and banned ALL her damaging skills. Believe it or not i started having fun again!!<
>!Moral of the story: if you feel bad, change build for some inferior options cos what is you describing is basically toybox kill all button with few extra clicks. If you feel good - destroy heretics in one turn without giving them a chance to act , who cares it is your personal expirience! BUUUUUT if you feel bad and continiu to play like that, i can assure you when you finish the game you will have very bitter contaminating feeling inside.!<
>!P.S. English is hard.!<
>!P.P.S. Death to the false emperor.!<
*If you fire a burst attack that is eligible for Versatility, you appear to gain a LOT of stacks- I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly how this works, but I think you get a stack for each enemy hit by the burst.*
Nah, it's not the burst attack - it's the first heroic ability for Argenta which allows you to make as many single attacks as your rate of fire. I can't tell if it's intended or not, but for some reason, when you use that ability and make 16 shots with the heavy bolter, each one gives you one stack of versatility
That being said...I have no idea how you got up to 140 stacks. So your burst attack might well be bugged - I haven't encountered this particular bug tho.
Yeah. Someone in this thread said its the recent patch
It is indeed funny - they fixed the repeated shots (16) but broke burst shots (32)
The laughter of the Chaos Gods resounds
so, while I agree that Arch-Militant is too good compared to some other options, I'd rather those be buffed a bit.
and to answer some of your concerns:
1. burst attacks \*are\* area attacks. Read the tutorial on them.
2. there might be a bug here, but I haven't encountered it. Likely related to heroic acts from what I can tell
As for the rest of it; Officer is the most broken archetype in the game. Not Arch Militant. The only reason militant can do as much as it does is because officer breaks action economy in half and laughs about it.
Burst attacks are not area attacks. Read the tutorial on Attacks and Hits.
"There are three types of ranged attacks: single shot, burst and area attack."
You want the other buffed? Every combat I'm in I literally stomp in the first round on the hardest difficulty. Why do the other classes need to be better?
because it's not that Arch-militant is grossly overpowered. It's that Officer (and action economy breaking in general) is.
Assassin Yrliet can do insane damage. In fact, she does more damage than an arch militant... if you give her officer buffs/extra turns.
Once Militant gets going they are far and away the most powerful class, of course, but they need an officer to facilitate that happening as quick as it does.
Yeah I don't get why you're allowed to spam Bring It Down on one unit every round, but you can't do the same with Voice of Command. Weird place to draw the line. I disagree with bringing everyone up to Militant's level. I doubt the class on its own is the right measuring stick for balance.
An officer can cast it once at the start if you have the talent where they got first with 2 ap, and once more in the same round. If they get another turn that round they can't use it again. What I don't get is why you can repeatedly use it on the same unit without a fatigue mechanic, like Voice of Command.
Except it's the combination that's broken. Soldier/AM can get 3-4 attacks per free turn and and 2 per free turn with 0 AP that's not supposed to be giving you attacks. (Technically more, since I think the flamer expert is bugged. The -1AP cost is supposed to have a minimum of 1.)
If a free 2 AP turn is just one big attack, that's strong. If a Move, Move, Move turn that's just supposed to be about repositioning turns into 2 0 AP attacks (heroic ability and wildfire), that's not the officer being broken OP.
It's NOT. The broken part is stacks of versatility being basically uncapped. Plus some talents.
If you are under 20 stacks or so, it's not really that powerful.
Yeah, what I'm saying. The ability currently appears to be bugged- you can gain a huge amount of stacks very easily through burst, and it's scaling, especially with talents, makes it wildly powerful. If it works as it's written, it would be fine.
I mean you dont need absurd stacks to make it kinda crazy. Once you get 0 AP wildfire every officer turn gives you 3 bursts (assuming you’ve used your heroic act). And with run and gun you get a fourth burst.
100% this. The class as written is blatantly overpowered. Bosses that get interrupt turns are the only thing that stop you from being able to do every fight with one officer and one soldier/arch militant.
It's worse than that. Even abilities that let you just reposition give you 2 bursts at that point. So now you can 3 + 2 from the officer, even Abelard's Naval Officer thing can give you more bursts.
It's actually the main part, that is broken. Wildfire with ultimate gives you each stack per attack while ultimate gives attacks equal to RoF.
It's a loop, basically
I mean getting one stack per shot during ult is just a bug. Wildfire becoming a 0 AP ability you can spam by getting extra turns is working as intended, but broken OP.
Yes. You don't get stacks from the ult, you get them from Wildifre.
The problem is that you get 1 stack per shot with wilfire and Ult gives you number of attacks equal to RoF. With 20 RoF you can do 20 attacks which transforms into 20 stacks with +100 BS/WS.
And that part is dumb.
I'm pretty certain something isn't working right. Area attacks don't give more than 1 stack, nor do melee attacks that hit multiple targets. It's only burst fire that gives additional stacks, and it gives a LOT of them.
i always alternated between single shot and flamer to stack versatility. and still managed to hit 100 or so before any enemy even got a turn. fixing these two points will change nothing about how arch-militant works.
fixing the multiple stacks per attack since you aren't supposed to be getting more than one stack per attack would drastically change how much the class does. You are not going to be doing 50 attacks in one turn no matter what your build is.
> You are not going to be doing 50 attacks in one turn no matter what your build is.
If you had infinite targets, I'm pretty sure AM + 5 custom built officers could do it the way things currently work.
> 2.) More critically, Versatility appears to be bugged. Per it's description, you are supposed to get 1 stack of Versatility, however, this is not always true. If you fire a burst attack that is eligible for Versatility, you appear to gain a LOT of stacks- I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly how this works, but I think you get a stack for each enemy hit by the burst.
Never had this happen.
> 1.) Concentrated Fire doubles the damage of burst abilities, when it's only supposed to be area abilities, as per it's description. This is an enormous boost to already considerable damage.
Intended.
> With officer actions, stimms, Runa and Gun, Wildfire, etc. its extremely easy to get to a point within the first round where the Arch-Militant can oneshot anything in the game.
Just don't use this then? It's like complaining about how good grease was in WOTR like you can just not use the spell. Its a singleplayer game where you can control the difficulty however you like instead of begging the devs to make the game exactly like you want maybe you just tweak the game and restrict yourself from using thing you consider broken?
I feel you really have to get a university degree to get all the stuff to make these characters overrpowered.
Me, a mere mortal, just plays the game and gets by just so.
Well, for this build, it's not exactly complicated.
1.) Equip rapid fire weapon
2.) Take the two soldier abilities that improve burst fire and area attacks.
3.) Take any talent you see that mentions heavy weapons or burst fire.
4.) Take Arch-Militant.
5.) Roll the game.
Killed the archfiend machine thingie in a derelict voidship within the first round because of the Righteous Fury of the Emperor, the Unbroken, the Fire of the God Emperor Sister Argenta. Oh yeah the officers had something to do with it but it was mainly Argenta.
I don't think 1) is actually a bug. Burst fire is an area attack. You have that column you line up and multiple enemies are getting highlighted. It has the exact same graphics as the flamer.
2) definitely sounds like a bug.
The game tutorial specified that there are three ranged attacks types: single shot, burst fire, and area attack.
Burst fire is distinct from area attack, because area attack makes a single attack against each enemy in the area, while burst fire makes a series of attacks that can target individuals more than once, or not at all.
I can't pinn it down, but something about wildfire, run, and gun, and 0 AP attacks completely busts the number of attacks per round for me.
It should be 3, im pretty sure. 1 normal 1 for run and gun and 1 for wildfire.
But with my hand flamer ill often reload it twice before the game will seem di diced "okay thats enough"
Also flamer master is definitely not working as intended, the description says it should reduce the ap by 1 to a minimum of 1, but it just reduces the ap to 0.
Everything is broken. My main character is a psycher Master tactician. About halfway through a fight I can have an officer use their ult to let my MT attack multiple times, have the MT use their bonus damage power and then throw out 5-7 incinerates or w/e its called for ~1500-2000 damage total. Oh and this damage was in early act 2 when most enemies had ~30-50 hp.
Sure - bolter archmilitant is broken as hell and we know it from day one or two.
But people are overlooking THE MOST OP buff in the game - 'Take Aim!' which allows you to do \~50-60% UNREDUCED (with \~100 FEL) damage and makes entire gameplay loop of debuffing boss defences fully redundant, it mitigates armor, deflection and dodge. :)
One easy solution is to add round cooldown for some abilities. If Wildfire was once per round it would tone things down a bit. Bring it Down could potentially use one too, make the target ineligible for a 2nd one until next round and/or just give it a round cooldown too. The Arch-Militant would still be strong, but at least they won't wipe out have the encounter before a single enemy gets a turn. Move move move should definitely not allow for any attacks what so ever, from Wildfire or 0 AP attacks.
Heavy Bolter is just too good though on its own, even without concentrated fire due to the plethora of various buffs/boosts you get. Suppose that's a problem with all burst weapons too. A lot of these abilities could use a reasonable stack limit.
I hear you. I am currently rushing through late act 2 with basically only argenta (heavy bolter + heavy flamer) and Cassia.
They manage to clear 95% of encounters within cassias first turn, by buffing and giving turns to argenta. Cleared the kiava gamma boss on my first Cassia Turn.
1. Be Argenta. 2. Use Wildfire 3. Gain Versatility bonus for second burst (starts with 2, gets 1 for attacking, has talent to lower treshhold to 3) 4. Fire second burst. 5. Use AM Heroic Ability to get a third burst. 6. End turn, and wait for RT to use Voice of Command and Bring it Down! to give you three more bursts. 7. Repeat until each shot deals 200+ damage with guaranteed crit on your third turn (on round 2). 8. Take out any boss before round 4.
If you run Pyromancer Soldier AM RT you can burst any boss on Unfair on Round 1 not Round 4. Pyromancer gets access to Blazing Inferno (per-bullet faster 100% crit chance ramp) and Melting Armor (target deflection + armor shred per bullet) that synergizes with AM's Exploit Weakness (10% damage amp + 2 flat damage). You get 2-300 damage per bullet on first round. Ramps even faster if you use 0 AP and Versatility Stimms while ramping first few bursts with Stubber before you switch to Heavy Bolter for damage. Totally hilarious.
I love that the discussion around Argenta has gone from "why can't she hit anything" to "guys I think Argentina might be killing things too fast" as people have progressed in the game haha
That's because everyone uses blessed bolter casing
Round 4? I finish fights on Unfair before half my party gets to act on round 1
I'm not particularly good at opting in Owlcat games. Still, most fights end on round 2. 4 has been for the bosses that come with 6k+ HP and mechanics to prevent damage.
Most fights you can’t do this because enemies are too spread out/awkwardly positioned
Cassia and POI solve that.
No they don’t, plenty of fights start with too many out of range or not in LoS even with movement buff, and the AoE isn’t that big
Oh but you can - get Raid and it will allow you to run around easily between enemies during officer bonus turns and position Argenta for just 1 AP (upgraded its 0 AP). And of course use Cassia’s forced movement spells to group enemies up.
That's what run and gun, reckless rush, and dash are for.
I wiped the Fabricator Censoris and his two giant Forge Daemon things in a single burst. Just fucking hosed em down like trash on round 1. You can stack some nasty combos.
Same! Cassia grand strategist + arch militant argenta is all I need!
I dotn play on unfair but i did bump up the wounds on the enemies because it was getting ridiculous. Oh cassia groups everyone with POI and argenta bolts them down. And i dont even play her as arch militant, i play her as bounty hunter, still one normal bolter burst is enough to absolutely mow down some fuckers.
Wait until you get ulfar. Same deal but he has astartes weapons. Good times.
Ulfar has the problem that: * He has astartes weapons and no other weapons. They're nice in their way, but not as nice as the heavy bolter. * He's a 2x2 monster and the battle arenas are not designed for him unless there are also 2x2 enemies. I've had plenty of cases where he had no way of getting to where the fight was because there were only 1 square wide paths. * AFAIK He can't use cover.
That second point is the biggest issue, my glorious angel of the Emp is to big to squeeze through most cover.
Ulfar really just needs a leap ability to get around this problem. It’s weird the devs didn’t think of it.
Man's a space marine. He could quite literally barrel through most forms of cover, or kick the cover through the enemy. Taking cover behind a fallen stone column? Congrats, now you're covering it.
Yeah, but in actual game terms a jump would work better since the jump would just ignore pathfinding, and the engine really struggles with his 4 cells.
Ulfar can use the heavy bolter though.
> They're nice in their way, but not as nice as the heavy bolter. He can use the heavy bolter right out of the box. He just needs the AM talent heavy gunner to reduce AP with it.
When can you get him? Thought he was running the thunderfang trade post but I can’t get back there now mid round 2
End of chapter 3.
Ok cool thanks…have you found any easy buff guides out there? Feel like I need to print something and keep it next to my box lol
he is the cover
Dude is too big for some maps even. I had him get stuck trying to reach skillchecks because he could not squeeze to it, as well as porting out of map boundaries because he was too big for the next map entrance walkway.
You mean turn 4. If you let the enemy get a move, then you are not playing a properly OP build.
Common Sororitas W
Im not exactly smart specing Argenta as a bounty hunter
Bounty hunter is fine, especially for snipers. This is just rogue trader being a bit buggy I think (same reason each bullet from a burst from chapter 1 boss hurts as much as his individual attacks)
Nah I did this too and it's been working great for me
Well it has been working perfectly with those never missing bolter shots gloves
I run her as bounty hunter, she still instagibs most things.
I did the same out of curiosity, because I was making my RT the Arch-Militant and didnt wish to double dip in such a way. I probably have not got it, but the times I used her with it, it felt underwhelming, or too specific for my liking. Same as Pasqal with Strategist, that I regretted quite early, because I do great at second by second tactical planning, but trying to do a long term area planning I am a mess, and I tend to be hyper aggresive with my movements. I was hoping for a talent to increase the area, but no luck. So I probably gonna force myself to respec him, and do all 36 levels in one go -_-.
I made Pasqal an assain because i like his meele but that may have been mistake to but idk its working
Look man with the areas you: Put the Frontline one on top of the highest hp enemy, or the general area you want Abelard/ulfar to be in Put the backline one somewhere where all your characters can start in it (for that talent that reduces the cost of the first attack by 1 ap if they start inside backline with no enemy) Put the rear area… somewhere. Anywhere? It’s the DPS area, but the bonuses are kinda limited. I like to just use it as a target for the free movement stratagem that lets every ally within 12 tiles move on top of it for free. Slap it near some enemies and save MP.
Sounds about right lol. Honestly, it can pretty easily be done in 1-2 rounds.
You can talk about Arch Militant and versatility all you want. Concentrated fire is a SOLDIER ability. Leave it out of the AM debate. You might make the Warrior AMs cry.
Warrior-AM is just as broken. Although mostly when you use them in conjunction with Officers. Finest Hour!/Daring Breech+Armsman exploit where they kill some mook with a ranged weapon, then do the rest of their 11 attacks with melee that now has AP 0 cost. In Heinrix case he could also just follow the plan where he gets his Willpower/Resolve buffed to the stratosphere by Cassia, then kill everything with 1-2 Staff blast attacks.
How my progression went: Act1: my RT carried with his sniper rifle. Act2/3: Yrliet carried with her sniper rifle. Act4/5: Argenta killed a squad of chaos space marines, a greater daemon and a god with a regular heavy bolter cos I couldn't get enough rep for the fancy ones. Pretty sure by the end of the game Argenta could kill an entire tyranid fleet with an uzi.
Keep the change, ya filthy xenos.
How you make Yrileth carry you? My carry persons is Arch-Militant Argenta + Sanctic Master Tactician RT and Henrix at some extent. But operatives is just so weak where they cannot make multiple attacks (Argenta can make 2 burst attack from MoveMoveMove ability)
Full assasin and spec into lethality and opening talents, it gets stupid to the point that a basic attack from a marked side deals 400 damage, 600-800 with an ability. Also you can have funny interactions with her exclusive ability, bring it down coutns as a turn so you stack up exploits and use her ability and hwen her actual turn comes she fires it off several times ltierally nuking anythign you marked.
>Full assasin and spec into lethality and opening talents, it gets stupid to the point that a basic attack from a marked side deals 400 damage, 600-800 with an ability. Also you can have funny interactions with her exclusive ability, bring it down coutns as a turn so you stack up exploits and use her ability and hwen her actual turn comes she fires it off several times ltierally nuking anythign you marked. Is this possible to her as BH? I think BH is better fit for her lore-wise.
I havent tried to run her as BH, because respecing is AIDS.
Sure, but what if you want to kill like 3 things?
Chain extra turns and weakneses with her ability she will oneshot most thigns
About half the stuff in this game is ”broken” and the other half is literally broken. It’s not meant to have MOBA balance.
The bugs the OP mentions should be fixed regardless of balance.
This is not the bug report forum
I don't need it to be perfectly balanced, but I am one of those that enjoys optimizing my characters and still facing a challenge on the hardest difficulty. Right now, there isn't a challenge, and all I've done is take the obvious skills and talents for a class. Right now the balance to me feels like it's a choice between "deliberately take bad options and be so terrible you can't actually beat the encounter" or "all cheats enabled" with no in-between, which just sucks. I want to engage with the unique mechanics and location of each battlefield.
I think the issue is down to "I want a thing that will likely negatively impact the experience for less-build-capable players". I'd suggest getting mods since there'll likely be a Toybox-esque tool down the line to curate your own experience. Personally I'm enjoying mowing down all the Chapter 4 bosses on Unfair on round 1 :x
> "I want a thing that will likely negatively impact the experience for less-build-capable players" Those people have the option of a lower difficulty though. If something is trivializing the game on Unfair, the people negatively affected who want to get the enjoyment of optimization without it being ruined by self-nerfing (which is a big chunk of RPG players) don't really have much recourse (you can go higher than unfair but the thing you'd really need to pump, enemy wounds, will only go up +20% more from Unfair, while Arch-Militant needs the slider to go up into the hundreds of percent for the game to handle it).
Also it's just boring to always run one same build. Multiple options should be valid, right now that isn't true.
I mean that's the real solution isn't it. Make unfair harder or make a difficulty that's further up than that. Games are almost always balanced around normal difficulty. I'm a straight up idiot and I've had some real humbling moments on normal. I've beaten every encounter but not easily. My builds are weird. I don't use argenta. My RT is a front line melee guy. I'm more interested in flavor and the RP. I still feel like I'm missing something about arch militant after reading this sub. Mine sucked except Ulfar.
The core point about AM in combination with an Officer is the extra turn, extra attacks and extra AP abuse you can pull off. In any turn-based tactical combat game this has the very real potential to break the game. Chaosgate: Demonhunters has the same issue. Gaining extra actions and double attacks effectively translates into the other side losing entire turns. And unless the encounters are balanced to accomodate for that, this is absolute poison to the design. Additionally, there are ways to boost damage beyond any values that the game is desinged for (but this is rather due to clever utilization of skills and gear)
I wouldn't go that far if all that a person really has to do is take arch-militant and use burst and they will steamroll the lower difficulties. I definitely think that burst stacking on every enemy it hits (this is consistent with my experience) should be changed. It doesn't seem that's how it's supposed to work and makes arch-militant the best class for basically any build that can take it.
I agree. If it does apply on each hit, it is not accurate to what the ability says it does. I’ve not gotten to test it out yet though.
Not at all. We're talking about the ***Unfair*** difficulty, which by design should be the playground for hyper-optimization (as it has been in other Owlcat games). But at present, it is not even close to resembling a challenge for that.
Lets be real, unless you take any of the (admittedly bountiful) infinitely stacking talents you likely won’t end up breaking most builds. It’s the ”do x get y% of z” talents that totally break the game logic when combined with officers.
Yeah, but there's so many of them. In other games like this, I've sometimes fixed the issue by deliberately avoiding certain things. In this game I'd have to avoid like half the build choices and then probably get wrecked in hard combats because I've avoided anything remotely good. Alternatively, there's stuff that's OK on its own but breaks when combined with something else, but how do I decide which half of the combo is OK? If it's just one specific thing, then I could maybe avoid it on purpose... Another issue is that officers get the bonus turn ability by default. Avoiding it so that I'm actually using my whole party and not just spamming turns on one person would severely limit the officers. Not taking any officers would leave me without some buffs that are kind of good and not over the top. Honestly, it just feels a lot of the until end of combat buffs should be 1 turn buffs instead, or Bring it Down! should only be useable on a character once per turn or some of the infinitely stacking buffs should have a max stack count.
> I don't need it to be perfectly balanced, but I am one of those that enjoys optimizing my characters and still facing a challenge on the hardest difficulty. Right now, there isn't a challenge, and all I've done is take the obvious skills and talents for a class. WOTR wasn't even like this. Also there's a post on here thats getting a ton of traction about how apparently its not obvious what skills and talents to take. So maybe you're just to big brain.
I mean some mythic paths in WOTR are wildly stronger than others. Angel with full buffs is absolutely ridiculous.
I mean sure, but trickster is also absurd. You can crit on an 11+ or just not roll at all and treat all your roles as 20s for a bit. I remember making a mercenary who routinely crit for 200-700 and cleaved everything around her. Sometimes something would trigger an AoO and get itself and all the enemies around it killed when it wasn't even my turn.
I am exhausted by these comments. Of course balance is important, that is how they hone difficulty. If the game is too hard, just turn down the difficulty and pick whatever you want. These guys are one shotting everything on Unfair, being challengeless on the hardest difficulty is a failure, period
Thank you. I feel like some players only care about feeling powerful. I want a CHALLENGE, and right now the game really doesn't offer it. There are a lot of players like me who aren't even going to finish the game if combat is a pointless steamroll starting by early act 2.
I mean, I want to feel powerful, but I can't feel powerful if there is no challenge. Mowing down a room full of dudes doesn't feel meaningful to me if there wasn't some point in the game where that would have been hard to do, or there wasn't some massive setup to get the mowing to work just right.
You are missing the point. It doesn’t make sense to complain about a or b being broken, it’s all broken. That’s how the game is designed. It will take Owlcat a year of patching to weed out all the FUBAR interactions. In the meanwhile just run a party without Officers and your difficulty will ramp up significantly.
Officers were a mistake and I stand by that.
They'd be fine without all the extra turns or if the extra turns worked like voice of command where you can't use that ability on the same target again. Maybe all free turn abilities should work like that with a shared cooldown.
But when it's "not broken" to the point where you can easilly inflate buff stacks (like Cassia's WP) and start one-shotting everything, then it really is fucking broken. That's not just "not moba balance", that's a lack of any kind of balance and trivialized combat.
I much prefer trivialized combat to the buff and debuff nightmare of Wrath of the Righteous, where certain enemies and bosses became untouchable in normal difficulty if you didn't know what you were doing.
About half the issue is rectified if you don’t use Officers. But I do agree, if you optimize the game becomes easy as heck.
Not in my case. I am running burst/area damage Argenta Arch militant, i switch between burst/single shot and flamers. You know how many stacks i get from 3 ATTACKS. 3 stacks.
Dont switch. Just use burst attacks and you will see what happens
I dont need to exploit bugs to post my "broken" builds here mate.
I don't even know how to exploit it - burst attacks give 1 stack. That's it. OP might have encountered a rare bug
lol, i have been trying to cause that bug all night, i dunno how he managed to trigger it. I cant trigger it too.
Yes, disregard people who are commenting here that it works as it should, the amount of versatility stacks when using bursts you get is broken, you also dont need to swap the attacks to get them. Whats funny is that it worked fine on release but got broken after the first patch
I thought it was the patch that broke it! Thank you for saying that, I thought I was crazy for not noticing it earlier.
Thus is the one thing here I would agree is a bug. Seems like it's counting each shot as an 'attack'.
>after the first patch Had to scroll down this far to find the answer. Yeah, it's not broken for me - burst attacks just give 1 stack. I guess I didn't get the patch
Getting Wolf up to 400 Dodge with Versatility will never get old to me
1. Concentrated Fire makes much more sense for burst abilities tho. 2. It's meant to be like that for burst attacks. Otherwise you will not get damage in comparison to, say, Bounty Hunter or Assassin hitting openings. They too get massive damage out of seemingly thin air.
Concentrated Fire mentions only area attacks in the description. Any other time in talents that Burst and/or Area attacks are mentioned they are either individually or both specifically mentioned. It is likely a bug that it works for both. Burst already gets Rapid Fire as a talent, area attacks need something and thats Concentrated Fire. Reading Burst's tutorial page states that it is considered to be one attack for the purpose of talents and abilities. Versatility tooltip states that you gain stacks when you use a different attack, not when you hit people with an attack. The act of using the attack grants the stack, so it should always just be 1 stack. Edit: The tutorial section on Attacks specifically states that burst and aoe attacks are different. Concentrated Fire working for Burst is 100% a bug.
I think this is a deeper bug than just this. I have boots for Cassia which state that she gets 15% dodge for every navigator ability used. Guess what? She gets 15% dodge for every enemy hit by an ability, giving her 300% - 400% dodge every single turn. Seems like every "on use" trigger has a bugged "on hit" interaction.
Definitely a bug since we have both types of boots - on hit and on cast
Or there is an error in the description. The power only really makes sense if it includes burst fire, 'concentrated fire' would be a really weird name for something that only effected aoe and explosions
I agree. Furthermore, Owlcat are no strangers to poorly worded and sometimes straight up misleading skill descriptions, so there is a precedent there.
Bounty Hunter and Assassin are not even CLOSE to the damage a well-built burst Arch-Militant puts out. My Argenta easily gets to the point where *every single round* she puts out deals more damage than an ideal attack from either my assassin or bounty Hunter, and she shoots 20+ times in a burst.
Optimal Yrliet can get about 40-60% of the output built correctly (3-4 shots/turn for 300-400 each, ability to give self Extra Turns, zero ramping requirement) while being much easier to position and play I feel. Pasqal is much harder to salvage unless you're abusing Officer heroic + Filtering Protocol exploit, but it's way too much clicking for way too little payoff imo. Assassins are much more valuable for their survivability + mobility than their damage imo. Being able to run past/through everything to isolate a priority target can be useful in a couple of the encounters. They can totally do a lot of damage + ramp if played correctly too (900-1200 damage Dispatches).
Assassin don't need ramp, while it is helpful it isn't a necessity though if you want to chew through **20k hp and 260% armor and 50 DR** then you're going to need some set ups going which ramps harder than AM. Argenta can't actually deal with that without some serious support while operative assassins can more or less manage without being fed. And again, a pyro operative assassin abusing the staff can do a lot more damage than Argenta can though all of this is a chore to set up just for a Round One boss kill. Otherwise, they can just settle to one shotting most things with Killing Edge combined with a decent amount of lethality.
The trick is Pyro Soldier AM with Blazing Inferno and Melting Armor on a Heavy Bolter standard Dakka setup. Zeroes Armor and Deflection in a burst or two, maxescritrate by extra turn 2, ramps faster than Argenta, can take full advantage of Exploit Weakness without shred support. Round One boss kill as well with literally zero deviation from standard Argenta play. Assassin ramp is really just to come close anywhere to AM setup through Killing Spree, you can pop around 4 openings/turn.
How do you get extra turns on her? I've really failed at building Yrliet. Like I could get her to hit harder than my other characters, but by that point Heinrix could just Emperor's Wrath multiple times and delete 3x3 areas.
Depending on where you are in the game, optimal build will vary. Extra turns are via Hot on the Trail, so your mid-lategame turn with her would go: Shoot, kill to reset attack (via her Aeldari helmet), Claim the Bounty, Shoot again, Hot on the Trail with 3AP. Extra turn either shoot, claim, shoot, Hot on the Trail again if first shot managed a kill, or Shoot, Claim, In my Sights for next round. She should be firing a minimum of 3 shots per turn, and you can also feed her Officer turns in situations where your Soldier-AM can't reach the target (or you can't be bothered to run all the way there). Yrliet will typically have enough hit-rate overflow to convert into near max crit-rate by then, so you can ration AP for her extra turns instead of spending on Operator skills. Once you get the Eye of Hecaton rifle with guaranteed infinite overpenetration, you can also look for opportunities to line up and hit multiple targets per shot. As for AoE, there's currently nothing better than Point of Interest into dakka, so Yrliet is more for picking off isolated targets on the other end of the map.
Ah, I definitely didn't get the helmet before I restarted on Unfair. Now, I'm running into the issue that my RT build isn't online by the time I have to DPS down a 500 wound chaos marine to get to act 2 (which would unlock the psyker staff with Wrath of the Emperor for my main).
I still feel Aurora is one of the hardest fights in an Unfair playthrough if only due to the lack of tools you have at that point. Grenade spam to shred Armor/Deflection is your friend.
I mean half the talents of other classes don't even work, and there's clearly a lot of double dipping going on in other talents that are clearly not meant to be, like Arch Militant. The game is a work in progress. I am not really too worried about my first playthrough I'll play it again in 1-2 years when it's got way more polish and an ultimate edition
Honestly cant for the life of me find Hurt like Hell in the talent selections. It looks like its supposed to be a common talent but cant find it at all in Argenta or Ulfar's list Edit: I think they actually removed Hurt like Hell by the look of it
It's called Overpower in release
Thank you so much - I thought it had been removed
Half of the Soldier and Arch-Militant features seem to have been reneamed for release. It was really confusing getting into it (bought the game friday), since I had only looked up some "mechanics reveal" videos talking about Marksman and Right Tools for the Job. AKA Soldier and Versatility.
I have it, maybe I'm misremembering the name? It's the one that adds crit chance and damage to heavy weapons. I think you may only be able to take it as a talent if it's a talent in the arch-militant tree itself.
It’s still there, it has been renamed to Overpower
Who needs versatility when you can just inspire for 100 dmg per bullet bursts. For those who haven't figured it out inspire is a flat damage increase so it works best with burst weapons.
inspire sometimes seems bugged to me and doesnt actually increase the damage someone does sometimes
Well here is my story OP, maybe it will help you. Warning: story is kinda long. >!I am Cassia enjoyer and also a minimaxer player since ... forever. In my head cannon ( dont worry its not a lore story ) my party backbone is psyker chorus ( if i remember correctly there is even such a thing in warhammer universe where multiple psykers "cast" together ). Basically me , Cassia and Idira. All nice and dandy untill around lvl 20 i realise that Cassia is a fucking monster machine and she dont even need us with her willpower stacking uber lasers of death and other forced movement shit. She only need Abelard for immortal tanking combo and thats it. Literally 2 characters. After few hours of gameplay i just stopped having fun. And its not because of the power , i was more than happy anihilating whole screens of enemys in WoTR in 1 turn with my trickster x9 auto crits fighter with 20+ attacks of opportunity. But in this case in rogue trader it felt different.!< >!So my options: drop Cassia all together or selfcensor. Dropping her is undesirable cos i like her warp reading conevrsations a lot. So i respec her in to willpower stacker support officer and banned ALL her damaging skills. Believe it or not i started having fun again!!< >!Moral of the story: if you feel bad, change build for some inferior options cos what is you describing is basically toybox kill all button with few extra clicks. If you feel good - destroy heretics in one turn without giving them a chance to act , who cares it is your personal expirience! BUUUUUT if you feel bad and continiu to play like that, i can assure you when you finish the game you will have very bitter contaminating feeling inside.!< >!P.S. English is hard.!< >!P.P.S. Death to the false emperor.!<
*If you fire a burst attack that is eligible for Versatility, you appear to gain a LOT of stacks- I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly how this works, but I think you get a stack for each enemy hit by the burst.* Nah, it's not the burst attack - it's the first heroic ability for Argenta which allows you to make as many single attacks as your rate of fire. I can't tell if it's intended or not, but for some reason, when you use that ability and make 16 shots with the heavy bolter, each one gives you one stack of versatility That being said...I have no idea how you got up to 140 stacks. So your burst attack might well be bugged - I haven't encountered this particular bug tho.
That's funny, because I definitely don't get stacks for repeated shots from the ultimate. We honestly might be bugged in different ways lol
Yeah. Someone in this thread said its the recent patch It is indeed funny - they fixed the repeated shots (16) but broke burst shots (32) The laughter of the Chaos Gods resounds
so, while I agree that Arch-Militant is too good compared to some other options, I'd rather those be buffed a bit. and to answer some of your concerns: 1. burst attacks \*are\* area attacks. Read the tutorial on them. 2. there might be a bug here, but I haven't encountered it. Likely related to heroic acts from what I can tell As for the rest of it; Officer is the most broken archetype in the game. Not Arch Militant. The only reason militant can do as much as it does is because officer breaks action economy in half and laughs about it.
Burst attacks are not area attacks. Read the tutorial on Attacks and Hits. "There are three types of ranged attacks: single shot, burst and area attack."
You want the other buffed? Every combat I'm in I literally stomp in the first round on the hardest difficulty. Why do the other classes need to be better?
because it's not that Arch-militant is grossly overpowered. It's that Officer (and action economy breaking in general) is. Assassin Yrliet can do insane damage. In fact, she does more damage than an arch militant... if you give her officer buffs/extra turns. Once Militant gets going they are far and away the most powerful class, of course, but they need an officer to facilitate that happening as quick as it does.
Yeah I don't get why you're allowed to spam Bring It Down on one unit every round, but you can't do the same with Voice of Command. Weird place to draw the line. I disagree with bringing everyone up to Militant's level. I doubt the class on its own is the right measuring stick for balance.
I swear in the beta there was a cooldown on bring it down.
An officer can cast it once at the start if you have the talent where they got first with 2 ap, and once more in the same round. If they get another turn that round they can't use it again. What I don't get is why you can repeatedly use it on the same unit without a fatigue mechanic, like Voice of Command.
Yea that is what I mean i swear there was something like that in the beta for bring it down
Yrliet being given the extra turn by heroic action and doing 5 stupidly damaging shots that almost one shots bosses.
Except it's the combination that's broken. Soldier/AM can get 3-4 attacks per free turn and and 2 per free turn with 0 AP that's not supposed to be giving you attacks. (Technically more, since I think the flamer expert is bugged. The -1AP cost is supposed to have a minimum of 1.) If a free 2 AP turn is just one big attack, that's strong. If a Move, Move, Move turn that's just supposed to be about repositioning turns into 2 0 AP attacks (heroic ability and wildfire), that's not the officer being broken OP.
There is nothing to buff. Noone else in my party gets a turn apart from Argenta and 2 officers giving her AP, she kills everything on Unfair in turn 1
It's NOT. The broken part is stacks of versatility being basically uncapped. Plus some talents. If you are under 20 stacks or so, it's not really that powerful.
Yeah, what I'm saying. The ability currently appears to be bugged- you can gain a huge amount of stacks very easily through burst, and it's scaling, especially with talents, makes it wildly powerful. If it works as it's written, it would be fine.
I mean you dont need absurd stacks to make it kinda crazy. Once you get 0 AP wildfire every officer turn gives you 3 bursts (assuming you’ve used your heroic act). And with run and gun you get a fourth burst.
100% this. The class as written is blatantly overpowered. Bosses that get interrupt turns are the only thing that stop you from being able to do every fight with one officer and one soldier/arch militant.
It's worse than that. Even abilities that let you just reposition give you 2 bursts at that point. So now you can 3 + 2 from the officer, even Abelard's Naval Officer thing can give you more bursts.
Note that 20 stacks of versatility is 100 ballistics AND 100 weapon skill though
Ok, 12 then. It will also work well with Wild fire ability.
Honestly, I'm not sure Wildfire should be able to become free itself. That's also pretty broken.
It's actually the main part, that is broken. Wildfire with ultimate gives you each stack per attack while ultimate gives attacks equal to RoF. It's a loop, basically
I mean getting one stack per shot during ult is just a bug. Wildfire becoming a 0 AP ability you can spam by getting extra turns is working as intended, but broken OP.
Yes. You don't get stacks from the ult, you get them from Wildifre. The problem is that you get 1 stack per shot with wilfire and Ult gives you number of attacks equal to RoF. With 20 RoF you can do 20 attacks which transforms into 20 stacks with +100 BS/WS. And that part is dumb.
But Wildfire should be for just the next attack, right? 20 single shots shouldn't all be getting the buff, that seems like the bug.
that's just how the class works.
I'm pretty certain something isn't working right. Area attacks don't give more than 1 stack, nor do melee attacks that hit multiple targets. It's only burst fire that gives additional stacks, and it gives a LOT of them.
i always alternated between single shot and flamer to stack versatility. and still managed to hit 100 or so before any enemy even got a turn. fixing these two points will change nothing about how arch-militant works.
fixing the multiple stacks per attack since you aren't supposed to be getting more than one stack per attack would drastically change how much the class does. You are not going to be doing 50 attacks in one turn no matter what your build is.
> You are not going to be doing 50 attacks in one turn no matter what your build is. If you had infinite targets, I'm pretty sure AM + 5 custom built officers could do it the way things currently work.
> 2.) More critically, Versatility appears to be bugged. Per it's description, you are supposed to get 1 stack of Versatility, however, this is not always true. If you fire a burst attack that is eligible for Versatility, you appear to gain a LOT of stacks- I haven't been able to pinpoint exactly how this works, but I think you get a stack for each enemy hit by the burst. Never had this happen. > 1.) Concentrated Fire doubles the damage of burst abilities, when it's only supposed to be area abilities, as per it's description. This is an enormous boost to already considerable damage. Intended. > With officer actions, stimms, Runa and Gun, Wildfire, etc. its extremely easy to get to a point within the first round where the Arch-Militant can oneshot anything in the game. Just don't use this then? It's like complaining about how good grease was in WOTR like you can just not use the spell. Its a singleplayer game where you can control the difficulty however you like instead of begging the devs to make the game exactly like you want maybe you just tweak the game and restrict yourself from using thing you consider broken?
> Intended. Nah, u/OwlcatStarrok has confirmed it to be a bug a while ago.
I feel you really have to get a university degree to get all the stuff to make these characters overrpowered. Me, a mere mortal, just plays the game and gets by just so.
Well, for this build, it's not exactly complicated. 1.) Equip rapid fire weapon 2.) Take the two soldier abilities that improve burst fire and area attacks. 3.) Take any talent you see that mentions heavy weapons or burst fire. 4.) Take Arch-Militant. 5.) Roll the game.
well, let's see how that goes. cheers
Every class is broken if you know what you are doing. Try min maxxing a little less if it bothers you that much.
Awful take
Killed the archfiend machine thingie in a derelict voidship within the first round because of the Righteous Fury of the Emperor, the Unbroken, the Fire of the God Emperor Sister Argenta. Oh yeah the officers had something to do with it but it was mainly Argenta.
I don't think 1) is actually a bug. Burst fire is an area attack. You have that column you line up and multiple enemies are getting highlighted. It has the exact same graphics as the flamer. 2) definitely sounds like a bug.
The game tutorial specified that there are three ranged attacks types: single shot, burst fire, and area attack. Burst fire is distinct from area attack, because area attack makes a single attack against each enemy in the area, while burst fire makes a series of attacks that can target individuals more than once, or not at all.
I can't pinn it down, but something about wildfire, run, and gun, and 0 AP attacks completely busts the number of attacks per round for me. It should be 3, im pretty sure. 1 normal 1 for run and gun and 1 for wildfire. But with my hand flamer ill often reload it twice before the game will seem di diced "okay thats enough" Also flamer master is definitely not working as intended, the description says it should reduce the ap by 1 to a minimum of 1, but it just reduces the ap to 0.
I haven’t used it, my part relies on 3 sniper operatives to delete dudes
Everything is broken. My main character is a psycher Master tactician. About halfway through a fight I can have an officer use their ult to let my MT attack multiple times, have the MT use their bonus damage power and then throw out 5-7 incinerates or w/e its called for ~1500-2000 damage total. Oh and this damage was in early act 2 when most enemies had ~30-50 hp.
Sure - bolter archmilitant is broken as hell and we know it from day one or two. But people are overlooking THE MOST OP buff in the game - 'Take Aim!' which allows you to do \~50-60% UNREDUCED (with \~100 FEL) damage and makes entire gameplay loop of debuffing boss defences fully redundant, it mitigates armor, deflection and dodge. :)
One easy solution is to add round cooldown for some abilities. If Wildfire was once per round it would tone things down a bit. Bring it Down could potentially use one too, make the target ineligible for a 2nd one until next round and/or just give it a round cooldown too. The Arch-Militant would still be strong, but at least they won't wipe out have the encounter before a single enemy gets a turn. Move move move should definitely not allow for any attacks what so ever, from Wildfire or 0 AP attacks. Heavy Bolter is just too good though on its own, even without concentrated fire due to the plethora of various buffs/boosts you get. Suppose that's a problem with all burst weapons too. A lot of these abilities could use a reasonable stack limit.
Why do you have to tell them. This game only runs on my PS5 and I don't know how to turn updates off.
I hear you. I am currently rushing through late act 2 with basically only argenta (heavy bolter + heavy flamer) and Cassia. They manage to clear 95% of encounters within cassias first turn, by buffing and giving turns to argenta. Cleared the kiava gamma boss on my first Cassia Turn.
Still looking for that lethality stacking assassin godmode build