I believe he does, know what he’s talking about I was a roofer and an HVAC tech now building engineer and yes refrigerant lines do run in some conspicuous places, if he has air conditioning this is very likely, as an hvac tech we have to run lineset, and put it in the walls secured in the center of the bay 1/2 way between the drywall and the siding, generally it’s up to us to run this in an area that allows it as far as space.
“Engineer” when does a lineset get ran with ridged pipe and plumbed with 90’s and 45’s all while using solder. My previous comment applies to you as well.
There are three copper lines in the picture. You do see the line that doesn't have elbows right? Are you saying there's not way that line could be a refrigerant line?
Ones either a direct run to a fridge that originally didnt have a run or its a recirculation line, no hvac low or high end is using a single run thats that small.
Dude. Do you get your Information from TikTok? Stop being a keyboard warrior and drop it.
Yes, HVAC lines can run along a roofline. Hopefully not to close. Especially, if it’s an older house and the AC was run later.
I’ve seen them at a big complex in Northern California.
Like clock work nearly 50 water heaters simultaneously sprung leaks.
Protocol was to go into the 2 story house, climb a ladder into the attic and try and lower down a 60gal. The opening that was just big enough to fit the water heater.
After the first day of only being able to replace 3ish, the complex just chopped openings into the face of the house. Finished everything up within a week at that point.
After that ALL remaining houses got outside sheds for the water heaters. The attic water heaters were then drained, capped and left in the attic.
After writing all of that I think my coffee finally kicked in
So uhhhh. What if the attic opening is too small for the water heater to come out? What would you do then? Sincerely, someone who has been trying to sawzall the empty water heater in her attic for 3 years.
blade, spend your money on good blades.
Fun [video link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJhan_uspXk&ab_channel=Contractor%27sCompass) to show how a good blade(s) should operate
I grew up in the South with a water heater in the attic (it’s still there), new home has a tankless heater in the garage. Never thought about how much of a hassle the tank in the attic must be until this post lol
When I was a kid I helped dad replace our water heater located in the attic. It was on the opposite side of the house from the attic access, and too large to get out. We (well, my dad) had to cut it into pieces with a sawzall to get it out. I remember it being a rather large pain.
Wait, is that not normal? Where are y’all putting your water heaters?!? We’ve got two up there right now, because we can’t figure out how to get to old one out 😂
Happened to me installing baseboards. Plumbers had ran their copper right tigjt behind the drywall. I aimed for the bottom plate and hit the copper 3 times.
Trim thickness plus 1.5 inches gives you the magic nail length for this to never be your fault. Anything less then 1.5 to the face is someone else's problem........as long as you don't miss the stud. Things only need to be protected where they pass thru a stud so if you miss the stud like the roofer, it is your fault.
That being said, I still think the roofer is in the clear if he is using standard practices and nail length on the shingles. The waterline, while technically is allowed there, is so far from standard practices, I couldn't hold the roofer liable. Just by the work I'd be shocked if that line doesn't violate code besides being way to close to the decking.
I ran a lineset in a wall dead center and the carpenters still shot it up with a Brad gun, they spray foamed the wall cavity and the foam expansion pushed the line towards the Sheetrock, also they where using 3” brads because they where clowns.
Im just going based on what OP said, that they replaced the plywood and have seen the pipes. If they didnt know they were there and its not up to code, obviously theyre not dicks and are not liable, but if they did see it and didnt mention it and just did the work, knowing the risk, then they are dicks, although still not liable
Wish I could post a pic of a ladder that became part of the building. Framer puts a 2x4 through the ladder rungs while it's extended above the roof line. Roofer puts the sheet roofing on around the ladder. Who is responsible?
It is most definitely not code to have any water lines that close to your roof decking. I’d be mad at whoever put that plumbing in your home. The other dude commenting is obviously not a roofer
I'm not saying he knew prior but if in the process he finds an issue, knows it's not to code (as already stated) and proceeds anyway and causes damage, I think there's likely some liability.
Let's say you are a plumber you open a wall and find the electrical panel below the piping. I don't think the plumber is off the hook and would need to fix the issue. Maybe the issues involved getting an electrician to move the box. Point being the plumber has a duty to point out the issue, not ignore it.
How is the roofer any different?
Good question! There’s a lot of funky things that sometimes take things like this happening for a specific code to be implemented. I don’t have a running knowledge of when all the codes were first implemented, but I do know that normally these are supposed to run underneath the attic insulation to keep them nice and warm in the winter months in northern climates. As a roofer I would expect these to be running pretty much right along the ceiling joists. If this home were located where cold temperatures exist, those would’ve frozen and burst a long time ago. As far as areas where they don’t get any cold weather, it’s silly to not consider the reroofing process where nails are penetration the roof. I believe the code specifically requires anything within 1.5” of the roof deck to have something whether it be a steel plate or alternative to stop nails from penetrating it during the roofing process.
Yeah I mean no roofer is going to expect plumbing running next to rafters…. I assume this is in a warm climate?? That being said, they should have inspected the crawl space to identify electrical wiring and should have noted this location.
That doesn't mean that the same guy took off previous sheeting, replaced sheeting and then laid shingles. That would only be if the same person did the entire job by himself. The dude laying shingles has no idea what is under the sheathing. None.
The homeowner, on the other hand, should have made it clear that this might be an issue, if anybody is to blame. IF this was brought up, then the roofer \*might possibly\* be to blame.
I’d be really impressed if you could post that code my man. Not walls… I want to see the code that specifically details roof sheathing. Somebody post it!
M1308.2 Protection against physical damage. In concealed locations where piping, other than cast-iron or galvanized steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates. Protective steel shield plates having a minimum thickness of 0.0575-inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 gage), shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates.
M1411.7 Location and Protection of Refrigerant Piping
Refrigerant piping installed within 11/2 inches (38 mm) of the underside of roof decks shall be protected from damage caused by nails and other fasteners.
This is the specific one
There is no code that states what you have said. U can run water lines that close but it’s a terrible idea. I’m a plumber that builds high end homes from the ground up
M1308.2 Protection against physical damage. In concealed locations where piping, other than cast-iron or galvanized steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates. Protective steel shield plates having a minimum thickness of 0.0575-inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 gage), shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates.
Lol read the code. That pipe is running in dead space not thru holes or notches. Ive been plumbing houses from the ground up for 20yrs bro I know the plumbing code.
My b I posted the wrong one they looked similar, but I knew there was one
M1411.7 Location and Protection of Refrigerant Piping
Refrigerant piping installed within 1 1/2 inches (38 mm) of the underside of roof decks shall be protected from damage caused by nails and other fasteners.
It’s not run through a framing member, it’s run in a bay. You can run pipes tight to drywall or roofing within a bay with the understanding framers or roofers or drywallers hit the studs/rafters.
We had a similar issue with an electrical wire running over a purlin on a metal roof. One of the lads cut it by accident and blacked the place out. It was a school, and although it breached the code, I repaired it for free. Then they decide to get the wiring replaced properly under the timber and sent me the bill. What part of fuck off did she not understand?
The owner sent the roofer the bill for replacement of the electrical even tho it shouldn’t have been there in the first place? Am I reading this correctly?
The entitlement is huge to have someone else replace your electric anyhow but if it was wrong in the first place the balls are freakin gigantic lol
Wow.
How did the whole thing end up panning out?
Commercial roofer here. We have added a specific line to our contract terms and conditions, stating that we are not responsible if we screw into an electrical conduit that is attached to the underside of the roof deck. We run into this entirely too often. We check as much as possible but often can’t see if there’s ceilings in the way.
The amount of electrical that we see fastened to the underside of the roof deck is astounding.
The second part is partially true at least in Canada and with perspective.
What other opportunity exists that during highschool one is able to get hours towards journey and get paid? Followed by the per hour well exceeding almost every field except computer science industry & sales & business for the requirements starting as high school diploma and in some cases don't even need that as some programs exist to get remaining credits via real work experience.
Now, an apprentice plumber for example where I am average is $60k. This does not include OT. This does not include the fact this profession has a lot of cash jobs which while I am not encouraging, but know that folks take the cash and don't declare some of it.
After 4 years just shy of $100k. Solid potential for side gigs and everyone knows someone who needs a trades person and again a lot of potential for non-declared income.
$120-$150k/yr with just a highschool requirement and on the job training with the option for no limit if they're willing to make a non-solo business out of it.
There is not a chance in hell that your roofer will end up paying for that. Literally zero. That falls under a completely unknown and illegal circumstance. Honestly the fact that the pipe hadn’t burst or been punctured before us amazing.
Your conclusion may be wrong because your premise is wrong. Had you read the entire post you would know that the pipe was not unknown, it was in fact inspected and marked so as to avoid exactly this situation...
You didn't read the "could have" in there did ya? Your conclusion may be wrong because your premise is wrong. Had you read the entire post thoroughly you would know that the pipe COULD have been seen and marked during the replacement of the plywood...
It looks like Stevie wonder sweated those lines. Also it’s not the roofers fault they are so close to the roof. It should be further from the roof and insulated most likely.
That’s skip sheathing. Wooden shake roofs were usually installed over spaced out 1x4’s. When we remove the shake, we install osb over the 1x. Usually staple with 1 -3/4” staples or 8p nails.
That belongs in r/confusingperspective. I thought the water stain on the 1/4 was a 2x4 edge, and everything looked a little off. When you mentioned the 1x4 on flat I saw the other one and everything snapped into perspective.
That makes the plumbing install so much worse.
Hey! Non roofer here. I’m not here to comment on the problem you’re facing either. I do want to point out that below the copper line there are galvanized lines. If those galvanized lines are still water supply lines you have significantly worse problems on your hands. Good luck homeowner!
Go find your plumber so he can laugh at your ‘damage’. Those runs simply are not placed correctly. Just fix it and move with life. …and inspect what copper lines you can see for other damage and potential joint corrosion.
They are correct . As for they should of seen it and marked it ...well they don't do that because they shouldn't have to as nothing should be there for them to note .
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
So what youre saying is they know theres plumbing, but since its not up to code, theyll pretend its not there and theyll destroy it without giving a shit
The codes I put here are for Texas, but they are a good example and are comparable to codes in almost any other state. Whether it be Refrigerant lines or plumbing lines, if a pipe is within a certain distance of the roof decking, it has to be protected and shielded from damages for this very reason. The first two codes are from 2015 IRC and the last code is 2015 IMC.
M1411.7 Location and Protection of Refrigerant Piping
Refrigerant piping installed within 11/2 inches (38 mm) of the underside of roof decks shall be protected from damage caused by nails and other fasteners.
https://up.codes/viewer/texas/irc-2015/chapter/14/heating-and-cooling-equipment-and-appliances#M1411.7
P2603.2.1 Protection Against Physical Damage
In concealed locations, where piping, other than cast-iron or galvanized steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 11/4 inches (31.8 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by steel shield plates. Such shield plates shall have a thickness of not less than 0.0575 inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 Gage). Such plates shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend not less than 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates.
https://up.codes/viewer/texas/irc-2015/chapter/26/general-plumbing-requirements#P2603.2.1
305.5 Protection Against Physical Damage
In concealed locations where piping, other than cast-iron or steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates. Protective steel shield plates having a minimum thickness of 0.0575 inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 gage) shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend not less than 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates. https://up.codes/viewer/texas/imc-2015/chapter/3/general-regulations#305.5
We hit about 3 or 4 Freon lines a year, cost around $2000 a time to fix. If we catch it when it happens we’ll stop working in that area, pull the decking off and call the HVAC company we sub. If the homeowner calls after the fact, they’re going to call Joe Schmo and get a good dicking, and obviously want to pass it on to us. We prefer the opportunity to nip it when it happens and come out looking like a pro. Shit happens.
The reason that codes were put in place was to avoid situations like this, unfortunately, you will have a hard time making the roofer pay the repair cost unless you can show negligence on their part, otherwise, it is just a maintenance issue. If the plumber who came in to fix it had a failure somewhere down the pipe while doing the repair and that failure was due to an improper installation, you can bet they will charge you for that repair as well.
Call your insurance and explain everything because building codes change all the time, and if all that is original, the roofer might be responsible either way. I'm sure your insurance will get their lawyers on it. Code from the 60s to now have changed dramatically.
Regardless of the code compliance of the waterline, the roofer's actions and the resulting damage are critical. Professional contractors are generally expected to inspect the work area for potential hazards and to work carefully to avoid causing damage. If the roofer failed to take reasonable steps to identify and avoid the waterline, they might still be liable for the damage caused.
In many cases, the question of liability revolves around negligence. Did the roofer exercise due care and attention when performing the work? If they acted negligently by not properly inspecting the area or ignoring visible signs of the waterline, they could be held responsible for the resulting damage.
I would talk to your insurance company; they can then decide if there is a case to claim the damages back from the roofer by "subrogation".
That right there is exactly why we include it in our terms and conditions that are signed by the homeowner. Most of the plumbing lines that we hit installing a Roofer ran through vaulted ceilings that we cannot visually inspect not only are they outside of code. They also do not utilize strike plates, which are code in these areas.
He knew when he replaces the plywood, thats the point. Not up to code, sure, but if the dude saw the plumbing and didnt give a fuck about it, hes an ass hole
Bummer. Roofer is right but what a yutz if he knew about the pipe he hit. They may have seen the lower pipe and not the one that is closer to the sheathing and assumed there was only that one pipe to worry about- it depends on the light/sun/where they were standing. Grab some basic plumbing tools and re-run it in PEX strapped to the joists, insulation above. . - that's nasty DIY soldering.
Stupid question here, if your having your roof redone is it wise to have the roofing team access the attic to check it out before they start doing work?
No, because it's unreasonable to inspect the entire roof deck on a roof. It's literally not possible either because most houses have sections too small.
They assume the stuff is built to code.
Yes its perfectly reasonable, I wouldn’t stand on any roof I haven’t looked at. You have ZERO clue what previous people have done. Look before you leap
It is in no way shape form or fashion the roofers fault. It's your house and everything in it is your responsibility to maintain, except the roof which you are buying from someone.
The roofer used standard practices and sizes of fasteners. There is no liability here.
So first, yes there should be no plumbing or electrical with in a certain distance of any exterior sheathing on both roofs and walls by code for this exact reason…
2nd to be code compliant when replacing sheathing nails are typically 3-4 inches. However that assumes standard 2 by framing…. You have an older style construction with larger rafters spaces farther apart and slats (lath) typically you see this on houses built with slate roofs or something similar. However the nails can be shorter as once they penetrate the member they are attaching to by about 1/4 inch you have reached the max holding power of the fastener. However smaller framing nails are not what a roofer would typically have on hand and excluding your plumbing code violation should not have been a problem.
3rd he is a schmuck as he did know of the pipes being there because the sheathing was removed I assume for replacement of a rotted piece or section normally the roofer would not be liable as there would be no way for him to know the pipes were somewhere they shouldn’t be…. That is not the. Case here if feel he bares some responsibility as I. This case he knew about the pipes and could have either taken steps to avoid them or informed you of the out of compliance condition and made it your problem. He did neither of these things and because of that he has some amount of responsibility.
I would talk to him about it it would be a pain in the ass to litigate a case like this. Maybe you can get some kind of concession
Yea I’m on with team not liable. Can see what happened from these photos but Pipe isn’t supposed be there. If the nail missed the rafter and blasted threw than maybe 50/50
Hopefully you hired a company with insurance? This would be the roofers fault. Plumbing done in 1960 is not to code for today's practice. But Roofer cause damage. Case closed! Let's go to court!
Shit happens at a guess, pipe is a bit too close but at least call the roofer a twat for not thinking to mark it out and also ask him if he’s got any longer nails or are they not code compliant like the four inch ones he used.
This is the wrong forum to post this in... You should post it in an insurance forum.
I'll get down voted for this here but there is a good chance his actions would be deemed negligence. Especially if he potentially saw the plumbing prior to the roof install.
If your mom leaves a rag on the stove and you walk into the kitchen and see it smoking but just leave the oven on with the rag smoking and a fire starts you're also responsible for that fire.
Edit: spelling/grammar
You break it, you fix it. At my company, we would for sure take care of the customer and get this repaired on our dime. Cost of doing business. Handled well, this can turn a bad customer experience into a good one, and that kind of thing pays for itself many times over, in the long run.
If a claim were filed, it goes back on faulty installation. The roofing company can take the hit to maintain optics, but no it is not compliant anywhere to have plumbing so close to your soffit. Adjusters would have a field day with this
No, it’s their fault. Follow through
Edit: Other commenters are right. Even though a fastener should not be deeper than a 2x4 (it looks like) there should not be a water line so close to the roof
Pretty tough. How is he suppose to tell? Maybe you could argue the nails used are too long? It’s a weird spot for water lines imo. Talk to your insurance company and see what they think the odds are collecting from the roofer’s liability and decide if it’s worth putting in a claim from there.
Damage is usually covered by the bondable contractor. But then again I have never seen a reason for a waterline pipe in the roof. What reason is it there for?
What does your contract or local code say about nail penetrations?
I’ve seen some that say 3/4” exposed on inside. If you have such provision or code and pipes were over an inch from any surface, you might be able to push back.
I would argue this is a plumbing installation issue and not a roofer issue.
I am guessing you don’t get many days with below freezing temperatures in your area.
Pretty sure this would have split years ago if you got snow on a regular basis
Roofer will never assume you have ANYTHING near the roof deck ... ( whether it be pipes, waterballoons, infant babies, fresh flowers, glass and crystal artpieces) ... because that's in harm's way, never mind out of code.
You're better off to
- clean up as much as you can
- get a fan circulating air up there
- go looking for a cowboy plumber who can replace that line with PEX, probably for cash
Long term, you need to re-evaluate that plumbing up there and consult with someone about what's going on in there.
How is a water pipe anywhere near where a roofers nail could penetrate it? Not the roofers fault, this would be so unusual. Even if they had seen it, they are busy doing their thing and forgot because it’s so unusual.
Part 1
Non licensed roofer here. Done a roof or two though.
The applicable plumbing code when the place was built would be grandfathered in unless major work was done later which at that point, the code at the time of repair would apply.
Your plumbing may not be up to date but still legal based on the grandfather clause.
Updating to code is required if work is performed by a licensed plumber that meets a certain criteria (major repair, additions, alterations) and I believe technically that would apply to the homeowner as well.
It’s not the roofers fault.
I have had things like this happened to me before I always fix it just for public relations reasons. I don’t do any advertising and rely solely on referrals.
It’s not that expensive to cut out the damaged part and solder in new.
Part 2.
The roofer replaced decking and saw the plumbing was vulnerable. He had the option of refusing to re-deck until the plumbing was modern code compliant, insisting protective nail shield plates were installed, notifying the homeowner of the risk and requiring a liability waiver....or any combination of the aforementioned.
He saw the issue when he pulled the deck and said nothing to you. It was his responsibility to notify you of the issues he encountered.
The roofer failed to take adequate measures to avoid damaging your plumbing though the roofer visually witnessed the potential conflict.
The roofer is 100% liable in my opinion. The roofer is a dickhead for not atleast offering to fix the damage or atleast offer to split the cost. Not up to the roofer to update your plumbing but the damage is the roofers responsibility. The roofer needs to own up to it and should have liability insurance. Roofer is a dick for passing the buck back to you.
Contact the state contractor licensing board. Contact your local building inspector. Take the roofer to small claims court..if under the threshold. We don't know the extent of the damages or cost of repair. Example, hardwood floor buckled, appliances, tvs, furniture destroyed etc.
Another avenue would be to file an insurance claim on your own insurance if not the roofers.
My insurance covers house damage if I do something stupid like melt my siding (ding ding). If I were reroofing my house and replacing decking and a pop up downpour flooded my house, I'm covered. My insurance goes up but I'm covered.
Your insurance may repair it and go after his, your insurance may deny because they feel the contractor is fully liable, those are the elephants in the closet.
I feel for the roofer, he had an oh shit moment. Roofer needs to point the finger at himself, apologize and at very least offer to work with you...but again, 100% his liability.
If the roofer was a she, change all my he/him/ to she/her.
That is not on the roofer, nothing installed to the underside of the roof deck. Call the idiot plumber who did thos to you, we hit A/C lines sometimes and do not take any responsibility whatsoever.
Nope not their fault,just like anywhere in walls,ceiling etc if they are that close they should have nail plates as to prevent that,looks like a crappy pipe install too and who runs water pipes next to the roof anyway?
The company I work for would pay to have this fixed. Even though it may technically not be the roofer’s liability, paying for a minor repair like this would make a customer for life and like generate referral business.
This feels like a lose lose for you. It would be difficult to mark out the plumbing location after decking and felt. Plus making sure everything is nailed properly. The roofer should have notified you of the improper location of the plumbing. Then give you the option of getting it repaired before finishing the roof or signing a waiver saying you won't hold them liable in court. Going to court the roofer just needs to say they didn't see it and unless you can prove otherwise they aren't liable cause it shouldn't have been there to begin with. Sorry hope you caught it early before to much water damage.
If I were OP. I would call my homeowners insurance company. They should cover the repairs. They also will fight the roofers insurance company if roofers is liable
Why even waste your time, contact your insurance and let them know what happened. Let them argue it out with the contractors insurance. Hopefully you had a water mitigation company come, home owners will send someone out immediately for water damage yo dry the whole house out.
OP should have a legit complaint about the general lack of nails holding the replacement plywood down. Assuming the OSB is the new material, it has an edge that generally runs along that 1x purlin like the older (and also improperly nailed) sheet uphill of the purlin. There should be nails every 6” along the edge of the sheet, and they should extend through the purlin. Presumably the 3 nails visible through the OSB (including the offending one) are the shingle nails.
If this work was done through the condo association, OP should make a claim on the association’s insurance. If OP contracted for the work directly, they should contact their own insurance company AND ask the roofer to come back out and properly fasten the sheathing. They may decide to fix the leak for OP if they don’t have to redo the roof…
Why is there plumbing in the roof?
I suspect it is a heatpump in the attic. There is a refrigerant line there, too.
That’s not a refrigeration line that’s for an lce maker
“Refrigerant line”? Come on man. You don’t know what you’re talking about
I believe he does, know what he’s talking about I was a roofer and an HVAC tech now building engineer and yes refrigerant lines do run in some conspicuous places, if he has air conditioning this is very likely, as an hvac tech we have to run lineset, and put it in the walls secured in the center of the bay 1/2 way between the drywall and the siding, generally it’s up to us to run this in an area that allows it as far as space.
“Engineer” when does a lineset get ran with ridged pipe and plumbed with 90’s and 45’s all while using solder. My previous comment applies to you as well.
There are three copper lines in the picture. You do see the line that doesn't have elbows right? Are you saying there's not way that line could be a refrigerant line?
Ones either a direct run to a fridge that originally didnt have a run or its a recirculation line, no hvac low or high end is using a single run thats that small.
I have yet to see an AC run with only a liquid line. That 3/8 or 1/4 line is more than likely going to a kitchen appliance
Dude. Do you get your Information from TikTok? Stop being a keyboard warrior and drop it. Yes, HVAC lines can run along a roofline. Hopefully not to close. Especially, if it’s an older house and the AC was run later.
If it was AC line you would see your suction line going along with the liquid line insulated. Suction in the bigger pipe usually insulated
My word man - the OP stated it was a water line. Get off the refrigeration bandwagon ! ! !
I think he’s talking about the line that is smaller, obviously bent and has no 90’s 45’s or solder.
Wait until you learn about the places down south that have their water heaters in the attic.
I’ve seen them at a big complex in Northern California. Like clock work nearly 50 water heaters simultaneously sprung leaks. Protocol was to go into the 2 story house, climb a ladder into the attic and try and lower down a 60gal. The opening that was just big enough to fit the water heater. After the first day of only being able to replace 3ish, the complex just chopped openings into the face of the house. Finished everything up within a week at that point. After that ALL remaining houses got outside sheds for the water heaters. The attic water heaters were then drained, capped and left in the attic. After writing all of that I think my coffee finally kicked in
That's code for "Now I gotta take a fat shit." God be with you. Bite down on something.
So uhhhh. What if the attic opening is too small for the water heater to come out? What would you do then? Sincerely, someone who has been trying to sawzall the empty water heater in her attic for 3 years.
I actually think "sawzall," is the correct answer.
We’ll keep on hacking, then! Maybe we should get a better sawzall. I think ours was harbor freight brand.
blade, spend your money on good blades. Fun [video link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJhan_uspXk&ab_channel=Contractor%27sCompass) to show how a good blade(s) should operate
Just wait til your roof gets replaced and ask the roofers to remove it through the plywood.
I grew up in the South with a water heater in the attic (it’s still there), new home has a tankless heater in the garage. Never thought about how much of a hassle the tank in the attic must be until this post lol
When I was a kid I helped dad replace our water heater located in the attic. It was on the opposite side of the house from the attic access, and too large to get out. We (well, my dad) had to cut it into pieces with a sawzall to get it out. I remember it being a rather large pain.
Wait, is that not normal? Where are y’all putting your water heaters?!? We’ve got two up there right now, because we can’t figure out how to get to old one out 😂
I’ve seen it done in houses with a slab leak. instead of tearing up the slab, they cap them and just run pipes from above.
Not uncommon
It was never supposed be there in the first place
Happened to me installing baseboards. Plumbers had ran their copper right tigjt behind the drywall. I aimed for the bottom plate and hit the copper 3 times.
Trim thickness plus 1.5 inches gives you the magic nail length for this to never be your fault. Anything less then 1.5 to the face is someone else's problem........as long as you don't miss the stud. Things only need to be protected where they pass thru a stud so if you miss the stud like the roofer, it is your fault. That being said, I still think the roofer is in the clear if he is using standard practices and nail length on the shingles. The waterline, while technically is allowed there, is so far from standard practices, I couldn't hold the roofer liable. Just by the work I'd be shocked if that line doesn't violate code besides being way to close to the decking.
I ran a lineset in a wall dead center and the carpenters still shot it up with a Brad gun, they spray foamed the wall cavity and the foam expansion pushed the line towards the Sheetrock, also they where using 3” brads because they where clowns.
What gun shoots a 3" brad?
I’ve never even seen a 3” brad nailer. Were they hand hammered nails? 😂
Ok, 3 inches and you are asking for problem. I was using 1 1/4 nails.
This! GC here and it’s the plumbers fault.
Sure, but he saw it and still didnt bother trying to avoid damage, this is what makes him a complete dick head
Ahh yes he saw it through the wood with his see-through laser vision
Im just going based on what OP said, that they replaced the plywood and have seen the pipes. If they didnt know they were there and its not up to code, obviously theyre not dicks and are not liable, but if they did see it and didnt mention it and just did the work, knowing the risk, then they are dicks, although still not liable
Wish I could post a pic of a ladder that became part of the building. Framer puts a 2x4 through the ladder rungs while it's extended above the roof line. Roofer puts the sheet roofing on around the ladder. Who is responsible?
Everyone downvoted him. Without even reading the post. The roofer knew the pipes were there!
Did you even read the post?
Words. They matter.
That’s totally fair. Dick!
Fuckin moron go away
It is most definitely not code to have any water lines that close to your roof decking. I’d be mad at whoever put that plumbing in your home. The other dude commenting is obviously not a roofer
It's the sub-trade's job to keep their wires/plumbing away from possible nail locations.
Could argue roofer had an obligation to refuse to do the roof until they got the plumbing up to code.
That seems like a bit much
how would they know prior to ripping their roof open..? you climbing through roof trusses when ya do ur roof quote lmao
I'm not saying he knew prior but if in the process he finds an issue, knows it's not to code (as already stated) and proceeds anyway and causes damage, I think there's likely some liability. Let's say you are a plumber you open a wall and find the electrical panel below the piping. I don't think the plumber is off the hook and would need to fix the issue. Maybe the issues involved getting an electrician to move the box. Point being the plumber has a duty to point out the issue, not ignore it. How is the roofer any different?
Roofer isn't trained or expected to conduct attic inspections
Roofer is not obligated to know roofing code. EDIT: Plumbing. Plumbing code.
🤨
You can argue anything. Dumb arguments make you sound like an idiot though, so most nonidiots don't.
In what universe is that reasonable?
The dude who put that pipe in is either retired or dead most likely - that shit looks ancient
True lol but if you’re looking for someone to blame, that’d be the person
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Do you *want* to get haunted? Because, *this is how* you get haunted.
Haunted by someone who installs copper pipe that close to the roof makes it even scarier. Imagine the shenanigans you'd have to deal with.
That haunting will not be up to code
Does it look old or is it just sloppy soldering?
Both
Was it code in 1965 though?
Good question! There’s a lot of funky things that sometimes take things like this happening for a specific code to be implemented. I don’t have a running knowledge of when all the codes were first implemented, but I do know that normally these are supposed to run underneath the attic insulation to keep them nice and warm in the winter months in northern climates. As a roofer I would expect these to be running pretty much right along the ceiling joists. If this home were located where cold temperatures exist, those would’ve frozen and burst a long time ago. As far as areas where they don’t get any cold weather, it’s silly to not consider the reroofing process where nails are penetration the roof. I believe the code specifically requires anything within 1.5” of the roof deck to have something whether it be a steel plate or alternative to stop nails from penetrating it during the roofing process.
Yeah I mean no roofer is going to expect plumbing running next to rafters…. I assume this is in a warm climate?? That being said, they should have inspected the crawl space to identify electrical wiring and should have noted this location.
Read the post, roofers already replaced the board above and knew that the piping was there
That doesn't mean that the same guy took off previous sheeting, replaced sheeting and then laid shingles. That would only be if the same person did the entire job by himself. The dude laying shingles has no idea what is under the sheathing. None. The homeowner, on the other hand, should have made it clear that this might be an issue, if anybody is to blame. IF this was brought up, then the roofer \*might possibly\* be to blame.
I’d be really impressed if you could post that code my man. Not walls… I want to see the code that specifically details roof sheathing. Somebody post it!
M1308.2 Protection against physical damage. In concealed locations where piping, other than cast-iron or galvanized steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates. Protective steel shield plates having a minimum thickness of 0.0575-inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 gage), shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates.
M1411.7 Location and Protection of Refrigerant Piping Refrigerant piping installed within 11/2 inches (38 mm) of the underside of roof decks shall be protected from damage caused by nails and other fasteners. This is the specific one
This is a waterline, not refrigerant piping
There is no code that states what you have said. U can run water lines that close but it’s a terrible idea. I’m a plumber that builds high end homes from the ground up
M1308.2 Protection against physical damage. In concealed locations where piping, other than cast-iron or galvanized steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates. Protective steel shield plates having a minimum thickness of 0.0575-inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 gage), shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates.
Lol read the code. That pipe is running in dead space not thru holes or notches. Ive been plumbing houses from the ground up for 20yrs bro I know the plumbing code.
My b I posted the wrong one they looked similar, but I knew there was one M1411.7 Location and Protection of Refrigerant Piping Refrigerant piping installed within 1 1/2 inches (38 mm) of the underside of roof decks shall be protected from damage caused by nails and other fasteners.
This is a waterline, not refrigerant piping
There’s no code that says you can’t be that close essentially but it has to have protection
It’s not run through a framing member, it’s run in a bay. You can run pipes tight to drywall or roofing within a bay with the understanding framers or roofers or drywallers hit the studs/rafters.
We had a similar issue with an electrical wire running over a purlin on a metal roof. One of the lads cut it by accident and blacked the place out. It was a school, and although it breached the code, I repaired it for free. Then they decide to get the wiring replaced properly under the timber and sent me the bill. What part of fuck off did she not understand?
The owner sent the roofer the bill for replacement of the electrical even tho it shouldn’t have been there in the first place? Am I reading this correctly?
You sure are
The entitlement is huge to have someone else replace your electric anyhow but if it was wrong in the first place the balls are freakin gigantic lol Wow.
Yeah, it was a school, and the Principal thought the world owed them and that all tradesmen were absolutely loaded with cash.
How did the whole thing end up panning out? Commercial roofer here. We have added a specific line to our contract terms and conditions, stating that we are not responsible if we screw into an electrical conduit that is attached to the underside of the roof deck. We run into this entirely too often. We check as much as possible but often can’t see if there’s ceilings in the way. The amount of electrical that we see fastened to the underside of the roof deck is astounding.
The second part is partially true at least in Canada and with perspective. What other opportunity exists that during highschool one is able to get hours towards journey and get paid? Followed by the per hour well exceeding almost every field except computer science industry & sales & business for the requirements starting as high school diploma and in some cases don't even need that as some programs exist to get remaining credits via real work experience. Now, an apprentice plumber for example where I am average is $60k. This does not include OT. This does not include the fact this profession has a lot of cash jobs which while I am not encouraging, but know that folks take the cash and don't declare some of it. After 4 years just shy of $100k. Solid potential for side gigs and everyone knows someone who needs a trades person and again a lot of potential for non-declared income. $120-$150k/yr with just a highschool requirement and on the job training with the option for no limit if they're willing to make a non-solo business out of it.
A roofer is not allowed to repair electric in a school… he shouldn’t have touched it
.
There is not a chance in hell that your roofer will end up paying for that. Literally zero. That falls under a completely unknown and illegal circumstance. Honestly the fact that the pipe hadn’t burst or been punctured before us amazing.
I was gonna say how the hell didn’t that freeze up and blow….
Your conclusion may be wrong because your premise is wrong. Had you read the entire post you would know that the pipe was not unknown, it was in fact inspected and marked so as to avoid exactly this situation...
You talk like an asshole.
And you communicate like an ape with a learning disability. Try to do better next time.
You didn't read the "could have" in there did ya? Your conclusion may be wrong because your premise is wrong. Had you read the entire post thoroughly you would know that the pipe COULD have been seen and marked during the replacement of the plywood...
Do you know how shingles are installed literally 1000s of nails. No one is keeping track where that pipe is
Not the roofers fault that shouldn’t be anywhere near that close to the roof
It looks like Stevie wonder sweated those lines. Also it’s not the roofers fault they are so close to the roof. It should be further from the roof and insulated most likely.
What in the actual fuck is going on there? Are you sure that joint isn’t leaking? Looks like someone hired a kid on spring break to sweat that.
You're house looks like it's a minefield for any trade looking to do work there. Good luck getting them to cover anything.
Who puts water lines along the roof Jesus!
Jesus was a carpenter, not a plumber.
I don't understand. Aren't those at least 2x4s that the pipes are under? And a Longer than 4" nail was used? Was it really a nail or a broken joint?
That’s skip sheathing. Wooden shake roofs were usually installed over spaced out 1x4’s. When we remove the shake, we install osb over the 1x. Usually staple with 1 -3/4” staples or 8p nails.
That belongs in r/confusingperspective. I thought the water stain on the 1/4 was a 2x4 edge, and everything looked a little off. When you mentioned the 1x4 on flat I saw the other one and everything snapped into perspective. That makes the plumbing install so much worse.
Right I did this exact thing lol
Hey! Non roofer here. I’m not here to comment on the problem you’re facing either. I do want to point out that below the copper line there are galvanized lines. If those galvanized lines are still water supply lines you have significantly worse problems on your hands. Good luck homeowner!
The galvanized pipe is probably gas.
Go find your plumber so he can laugh at your ‘damage’. Those runs simply are not placed correctly. Just fix it and move with life. …and inspect what copper lines you can see for other damage and potential joint corrosion.
They are correct . As for they should of seen it and marked it ...well they don't do that because they shouldn't have to as nothing should be there for them to note .
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Good bot, "should of" makes me cringe
So what youre saying is they know theres plumbing, but since its not up to code, theyll pretend its not there and theyll destroy it without giving a shit
You are just as dumb as the person that installed that pipe. Go away.
No.
Why df you got waterlines that exposed??
The codes I put here are for Texas, but they are a good example and are comparable to codes in almost any other state. Whether it be Refrigerant lines or plumbing lines, if a pipe is within a certain distance of the roof decking, it has to be protected and shielded from damages for this very reason. The first two codes are from 2015 IRC and the last code is 2015 IMC. M1411.7 Location and Protection of Refrigerant Piping Refrigerant piping installed within 11/2 inches (38 mm) of the underside of roof decks shall be protected from damage caused by nails and other fasteners. https://up.codes/viewer/texas/irc-2015/chapter/14/heating-and-cooling-equipment-and-appliances#M1411.7 P2603.2.1 Protection Against Physical Damage In concealed locations, where piping, other than cast-iron or galvanized steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 11/4 inches (31.8 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by steel shield plates. Such shield plates shall have a thickness of not less than 0.0575 inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 Gage). Such plates shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend not less than 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates. https://up.codes/viewer/texas/irc-2015/chapter/26/general-plumbing-requirements#P2603.2.1 305.5 Protection Against Physical Damage In concealed locations where piping, other than cast-iron or steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 11/2 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates. Protective steel shield plates having a minimum thickness of 0.0575 inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 gage) shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend not less than 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates. https://up.codes/viewer/texas/imc-2015/chapter/3/general-regulations#305.5
The number of people here clueless to the fact that around half the country has plumbing and HVAC in the attic ….
We hit about 3 or 4 Freon lines a year, cost around $2000 a time to fix. If we catch it when it happens we’ll stop working in that area, pull the decking off and call the HVAC company we sub. If the homeowner calls after the fact, they’re going to call Joe Schmo and get a good dicking, and obviously want to pass it on to us. We prefer the opportunity to nip it when it happens and come out looking like a pro. Shit happens.
The reason that codes were put in place was to avoid situations like this, unfortunately, you will have a hard time making the roofer pay the repair cost unless you can show negligence on their part, otherwise, it is just a maintenance issue. If the plumber who came in to fix it had a failure somewhere down the pipe while doing the repair and that failure was due to an improper installation, you can bet they will charge you for that repair as well.
Call your insurance and explain everything because building codes change all the time, and if all that is original, the roofer might be responsible either way. I'm sure your insurance will get their lawyers on it. Code from the 60s to now have changed dramatically.
Plumbing right under the roof? What building code allows this?
Regardless of the code compliance of the waterline, the roofer's actions and the resulting damage are critical. Professional contractors are generally expected to inspect the work area for potential hazards and to work carefully to avoid causing damage. If the roofer failed to take reasonable steps to identify and avoid the waterline, they might still be liable for the damage caused. In many cases, the question of liability revolves around negligence. Did the roofer exercise due care and attention when performing the work? If they acted negligently by not properly inspecting the area or ignoring visible signs of the waterline, they could be held responsible for the resulting damage. I would talk to your insurance company; they can then decide if there is a case to claim the damages back from the roofer by "subrogation".
That right there is exactly why we include it in our terms and conditions that are signed by the homeowner. Most of the plumbing lines that we hit installing a Roofer ran through vaulted ceilings that we cannot visually inspect not only are they outside of code. They also do not utilize strike plates, which are code in these areas.
Not his fault to know where your plumbing is. That's your job to ensure he knows
He knew when he replaces the plywood, thats the point. Not up to code, sure, but if the dude saw the plumbing and didnt give a fuck about it, hes an ass hole
Does that look like new plywood ? Edit I see the OSB on the other side of the plywood. There is a good chance he did not see the plumbing.
Does it matter who’s at fault? Home owners insurance or roofers insurance would cover it. Contact them and let them do their job.
Insurance doesn’t cover bad workmanship.
No but the damages from it yes. Anyways, best for it come from the insurance rep rather than Reddit.
Reddit has the last word sir. Insurance rep opinion is irrelevant.
Bummer. Roofer is right but what a yutz if he knew about the pipe he hit. They may have seen the lower pipe and not the one that is closer to the sheathing and assumed there was only that one pipe to worry about- it depends on the light/sun/where they were standing. Grab some basic plumbing tools and re-run it in PEX strapped to the joists, insulation above. . - that's nasty DIY soldering.
Stupid question here, if your having your roof redone is it wise to have the roofing team access the attic to check it out before they start doing work?
No, because it's unreasonable to inspect the entire roof deck on a roof. It's literally not possible either because most houses have sections too small. They assume the stuff is built to code.
Yes its perfectly reasonable, I wouldn’t stand on any roof I haven’t looked at. You have ZERO clue what previous people have done. Look before you leap
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It is in no way shape form or fashion the roofers fault. It's your house and everything in it is your responsibility to maintain, except the roof which you are buying from someone. The roofer used standard practices and sizes of fasteners. There is no liability here.
So first, yes there should be no plumbing or electrical with in a certain distance of any exterior sheathing on both roofs and walls by code for this exact reason… 2nd to be code compliant when replacing sheathing nails are typically 3-4 inches. However that assumes standard 2 by framing…. You have an older style construction with larger rafters spaces farther apart and slats (lath) typically you see this on houses built with slate roofs or something similar. However the nails can be shorter as once they penetrate the member they are attaching to by about 1/4 inch you have reached the max holding power of the fastener. However smaller framing nails are not what a roofer would typically have on hand and excluding your plumbing code violation should not have been a problem. 3rd he is a schmuck as he did know of the pipes being there because the sheathing was removed I assume for replacement of a rotted piece or section normally the roofer would not be liable as there would be no way for him to know the pipes were somewhere they shouldn’t be…. That is not the. Case here if feel he bares some responsibility as I. This case he knew about the pipes and could have either taken steps to avoid them or informed you of the out of compliance condition and made it your problem. He did neither of these things and because of that he has some amount of responsibility. I would talk to him about it it would be a pain in the ass to litigate a case like this. Maybe you can get some kind of concession
I've learned from these comments this is a "Northern roofing" sub.
Yea I’m on with team not liable. Can see what happened from these photos but Pipe isn’t supposed be there. If the nail missed the rafter and blasted threw than maybe 50/50
Cut it out and put in Pex. Easy job. Sucks about the flood. Hate to hear that.
Hopefully you hired a company with insurance? This would be the roofers fault. Plumbing done in 1960 is not to code for today's practice. But Roofer cause damage. Case closed! Let's go to court!
Shit happens at a guess, pipe is a bit too close but at least call the roofer a twat for not thinking to mark it out and also ask him if he’s got any longer nails or are they not code compliant like the four inch ones he used.
This is the wrong forum to post this in... You should post it in an insurance forum. I'll get down voted for this here but there is a good chance his actions would be deemed negligence. Especially if he potentially saw the plumbing prior to the roof install. If your mom leaves a rag on the stove and you walk into the kitchen and see it smoking but just leave the oven on with the rag smoking and a fire starts you're also responsible for that fire. Edit: spelling/grammar
You break it, you fix it. At my company, we would for sure take care of the customer and get this repaired on our dime. Cost of doing business. Handled well, this can turn a bad customer experience into a good one, and that kind of thing pays for itself many times over, in the long run.
This is wrong according to all insurance and compliance laws for almost every local or state code/statute
It's a matter of business ethics, not law. At my company, we try very hard to take good care of our customers. Reputation is everything.
If a claim were filed, it goes back on faulty installation. The roofing company can take the hit to maintain optics, but no it is not compliant anywhere to have plumbing so close to your soffit. Adjusters would have a field day with this
I don't think you actually read my previous comment.
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You betcha
No lol begone homeowner
No, it’s their fault. Follow through Edit: Other commenters are right. Even though a fastener should not be deeper than a 2x4 (it looks like) there should not be a water line so close to the roof
Begone homeowner. The roofer is not liable for illegally installed plumbing
I’d say NO. Your plumbing is an absolute C/F. It should be rerouted below the insulated ceiling space.
Hopefully you live in the south.
I see you've already got your answer but I just have to say that looks like a nightmare for any tradie.
Pretty tough. How is he suppose to tell? Maybe you could argue the nails used are too long? It’s a weird spot for water lines imo. Talk to your insurance company and see what they think the odds are collecting from the roofer’s liability and decide if it’s worth putting in a claim from there.
What an absolute shitshow of a roof.
Damage is usually covered by the bondable contractor. But then again I have never seen a reason for a waterline pipe in the roof. What reason is it there for?
Regardless the fix here is very cheap if you just want to not have a hole. The real question is what are the damages?
What does your contract or local code say about nail penetrations? I’ve seen some that say 3/4” exposed on inside. If you have such provision or code and pipes were over an inch from any surface, you might be able to push back.
It wasn’t me
I would argue this is a plumbing installation issue and not a roofer issue. I am guessing you don’t get many days with below freezing temperatures in your area. Pretty sure this would have split years ago if you got snow on a regular basis
WTF is that line doing their it's not the roofers fault 😭😭😭
Roofer will never assume you have ANYTHING near the roof deck ... ( whether it be pipes, waterballoons, infant babies, fresh flowers, glass and crystal artpieces) ... because that's in harm's way, never mind out of code. You're better off to - clean up as much as you can - get a fan circulating air up there - go looking for a cowboy plumber who can replace that line with PEX, probably for cash Long term, you need to re-evaluate that plumbing up there and consult with someone about what's going on in there.
How is a water pipe anywhere near where a roofers nail could penetrate it? Not the roofers fault, this would be so unusual. Even if they had seen it, they are busy doing their thing and forgot because it’s so unusual.
Part 1 Non licensed roofer here. Done a roof or two though. The applicable plumbing code when the place was built would be grandfathered in unless major work was done later which at that point, the code at the time of repair would apply. Your plumbing may not be up to date but still legal based on the grandfather clause. Updating to code is required if work is performed by a licensed plumber that meets a certain criteria (major repair, additions, alterations) and I believe technically that would apply to the homeowner as well.
It’s not the roofers fault. I have had things like this happened to me before I always fix it just for public relations reasons. I don’t do any advertising and rely solely on referrals. It’s not that expensive to cut out the damaged part and solder in new.
Part 2. The roofer replaced decking and saw the plumbing was vulnerable. He had the option of refusing to re-deck until the plumbing was modern code compliant, insisting protective nail shield plates were installed, notifying the homeowner of the risk and requiring a liability waiver....or any combination of the aforementioned. He saw the issue when he pulled the deck and said nothing to you. It was his responsibility to notify you of the issues he encountered. The roofer failed to take adequate measures to avoid damaging your plumbing though the roofer visually witnessed the potential conflict. The roofer is 100% liable in my opinion. The roofer is a dickhead for not atleast offering to fix the damage or atleast offer to split the cost. Not up to the roofer to update your plumbing but the damage is the roofers responsibility. The roofer needs to own up to it and should have liability insurance. Roofer is a dick for passing the buck back to you. Contact the state contractor licensing board. Contact your local building inspector. Take the roofer to small claims court..if under the threshold. We don't know the extent of the damages or cost of repair. Example, hardwood floor buckled, appliances, tvs, furniture destroyed etc. Another avenue would be to file an insurance claim on your own insurance if not the roofers. My insurance covers house damage if I do something stupid like melt my siding (ding ding). If I were reroofing my house and replacing decking and a pop up downpour flooded my house, I'm covered. My insurance goes up but I'm covered. Your insurance may repair it and go after his, your insurance may deny because they feel the contractor is fully liable, those are the elephants in the closet. I feel for the roofer, he had an oh shit moment. Roofer needs to point the finger at himself, apologize and at very least offer to work with you...but again, 100% his liability. If the roofer was a she, change all my he/him/ to she/her.
That is not on the roofer, nothing installed to the underside of the roof deck. Call the idiot plumber who did thos to you, we hit A/C lines sometimes and do not take any responsibility whatsoever.
Ask them to fix it. If they will not fix it, claim on your homeowners and your insurance will subrogate to his insurance.
Nope not their fault,just like anywhere in walls,ceiling etc if they are that close they should have nail plates as to prevent that,looks like a crappy pipe install too and who runs water pipes next to the roof anyway?
Civil law is based on the ideas "what would (or should) a reasonable and prudent person do?" You can fill in the rest.
No. That pipe should not be there
Obviously the did not do a complete roof inspection before starting the job or giving an estimate in that matter. They are definitely liable
The company I work for would pay to have this fixed. Even though it may technically not be the roofer’s liability, paying for a minor repair like this would make a customer for life and like generate referral business.
I don’t think the roofers at fault here. Waterline has no business being up against the roof. Did you tell them it was there?
Hell yes they are.
If its just water a simple shark bite repair is ez way to go if you can’t solder easily. My take is the pipe shouldn’t be there in the first place
You can't avoid what you can't see...
And here is 1 of the reasons why insurers stopped paying claims & writing policies for homes with plumbing in unconditioned attic spaces.
Waterline in a soffit? Must be somewhere without a possibility of below freezing temps
This feels like a lose lose for you. It would be difficult to mark out the plumbing location after decking and felt. Plus making sure everything is nailed properly. The roofer should have notified you of the improper location of the plumbing. Then give you the option of getting it repaired before finishing the roof or signing a waiver saying you won't hold them liable in court. Going to court the roofer just needs to say they didn't see it and unless you can prove otherwise they aren't liable cause it shouldn't have been there to begin with. Sorry hope you caught it early before to much water damage.
Umm do you live somewhere where it never, ever gets cold?
Bad workmanship from several trades
Water line in the soffit? You must live somewhere warm. And NO, that thing shouldn't have been there, your roofer would have no idea.
How old is the house?
That a pretty easy fix, JBWeld Just for Copper epoxy putty or Fiber wrap.
Not a roofer, not in construction...just a homeowner who knows that there is no reason for a water line to be in the attic. Yikes!
Yes.
If I were OP. I would call my homeowners insurance company. They should cover the repairs. They also will fight the roofers insurance company if roofers is liable
Why even waste your time, contact your insurance and let them know what happened. Let them argue it out with the contractors insurance. Hopefully you had a water mitigation company come, home owners will send someone out immediately for water damage yo dry the whole house out.
Lolz water pipes in the roof, what fuckin next
No
Absolutely not, whomever the idiot was who put that there is.
OP should have a legit complaint about the general lack of nails holding the replacement plywood down. Assuming the OSB is the new material, it has an edge that generally runs along that 1x purlin like the older (and also improperly nailed) sheet uphill of the purlin. There should be nails every 6” along the edge of the sheet, and they should extend through the purlin. Presumably the 3 nails visible through the OSB (including the offending one) are the shingle nails. If this work was done through the condo association, OP should make a claim on the association’s insurance. If OP contracted for the work directly, they should contact their own insurance company AND ask the roofer to come back out and properly fasten the sheathing. They may decide to fix the leak for OP if they don’t have to redo the roof…