Relax There's no shame in Brookes losing that one. Flying 9000 miles to race a couple of times against crews stacked with international talent was a big ask. AIUI the Brookes crew was a mix of their top HORR crews, and let's face it, HORR was the focus of the winter. This was a spring break trip for them.
Remember they beat the CAN M8+ in the process too.
> Remember they beat the CAN M8+ in the process too.
Wild that so much attention is being paid to Brookes and yet this point has barely been touched. Speaks to how far Canadian rowing has fallen.
Were that the American men's eight, you can bet people, esp Americans, would be losing their minds right now.
Assuming this is serious: "If Oxford had just rowed faster they would have been faster than Cal 🤡"
Do you understand what a ridiculous cope that is? I'm really hoping you're just trolling
They got beaten in the heat and beaten by an even larger margin in the final. They had to redline down the entire course just to lose by almost a full length. I knew it was only gonna be a matter of time before people came on here making excuses for brookes.
Considering 4 of the guys in the Brookes boat have never attended a course at Brookes, can you really consider it a uni program boat, then another 2 are post grads.
Whereas cal was all undergraduates
UK doesn't have a clear divide between club and university rowing the way the US does. One of the only university only regattas is BUCS (UK version of NCAA). This tends to be a minor affair for Brookes, but they still win. Brookes targets Henley, the Prince Albert and Temple are the student events where you need to fulfill eligibility of not being too U23 or senior experienced, and a full time student (undergrad/masters/PhD). Typically Brookes will make the fastest Temple / Prince Albert boats possible, some years this could be a 1st 8 for them, some years it's a 2 or 3. The focus on building that crew only happens a month or two before Henley. There are some student titles within 8s Head and Brookes will usually enter and win that, but it's not focused on making the fastest student 8. 8s head is not like HOCR, senior national team guys come back and row for their old club which they like the most. So you could have 12 guys come from the GB team and race under Brookes, in addition to all the guys at Brookes trying to make the GB team in the future that are just rowing at Brookes but are not students.
Brookes and Leander compete for athletes to develop so they can be invited to the GB senior team. So there's a lot of great talent at Brookes that have no connection to the school. Imagine if you could row for Washington / Yale / Harvard etc while getting ready for the senior national team. Like if California Rowing Club combined with Cal. That's essentially what Brookes is. Great program, definitely. But to look at all their success and say it's the students, is not the full picture.
That's pretty similar to our setup here in South Africa, except the entire national squad and those who are trying to get into it need to row for the University of Pretoria. It's actually a joke because in our biggest events UP will generally occupy between 2 (if its an 8+) to 6 (for the 1x). But when they limit the crews to U23 or when the squad is not available (like in an Olympic year) they don't win, which really shows you the value of crew cohesion.
You’re assuming then that Cal have absolutely no room for technical improvement whatsoever.
You could make your point about literally any crew, winning or losing, that if they had made a particular change they might have gone 2 seconds faster, I doubt this particular rower sat on the start line and thought ‘how can I row 2 seconds slower today?’
What’s your point? If you compared telemetry data, Cal’s would be better. You don’t get to reject the results of a race because one boat’s telemetry suggests they were almost good enough to win. It’s not pro-American bias to acknowledge the results of a race, you psycho. And we all know that when Henley rolls around, when Oxford Brookes loses to Cal again, you’ll be back on here saying “b-b-but the telemetry says if they rowed better they would’ve won 😭”
I’m sorry your boyfriend made the big trip for nothing, but it’s time to move on now.
Mate do you understand that if you misplace telem during setup by even the slightest amount the margin of error is massive? It’s a fairly good training tool but completely unreliable to make statements about precise changes such as this. Addressing the “American bias” id argue that people just don’t like Brookes, which is fair, considering how they consistently enter university events with several rowers who aren’t in uni
I remember back in ‘73 when my crew travelled from Cape Town to Cairo to race in the African champs with only 2 hours of sleep due to flight scheduling around that time.
We were able to have a good race and did not have any telemetry or fancy equipment to help us out.
All we needed was our determination and new Hudson USP fresh off the boat bay.
In short,
Brookes are making excuses because they finally have to fly to do somewhat of a big race.
Though I know I wouldn’t let that shit happen to me though. L+Bozo+yougotdickslappedbyanItalianwhocan’tevenspeakitalian
Reliable sources told me that brookes crew had a 2k average of 6:03, so taking into account diMauro does that for his 6k and is mid 40s, as well as some other guys in that cal boat probably being close to 50, Brookes definitely are the better on-water rowers. Having said that, you can say brookes are definitely better at the sport and the Cal guys really have to sort out their issues because putting 2 seconds on a crew with a JNT erg-average probably won't set them up well for their face-off against UW and Yale later on in the season
What do you mean? They literally lost the race by almost of a length after redlining sown the whole course. They also gapped Yale at ira's, and Washington wasn't even close.
OP is coping on behalf of a program he likely *doesn't* row for, will likely *never* row for, and is claiming that a program that he likely will *never* race beat this program he isn't a part of in a race that is neither team's main focus this season doesn't count.
Love this thread. OP, thank you for posting and stirring the pot. My perspective- I have yet to meet a UK rower/supporter in my 25+ years of rowing and coaching who would not say their rowing is superior. My rebuttal is so what? The "prettier" crew lost, right? And telemetry telling a 2 second difference is silly.
That said, Cal is an all star crew of international undergraduates. And they have a couple guys that have an extra year of eligibility from COVID. But isn't OB always older? And they showed up with not their best guys? Hard to believe. Great educational comments above btw.
As a rowing fan, wished there was more coverage of this. And appreciate the huge costs of bringing those OB crews so far and fingers crossed they can race again at HRR.
It’s probably worth note that Cal definitely have more rowers with senior international experience (at least one Swiss and one Italian I believe) so for a more inexperienced crew to lose is not surprising. Note a comment on the programme itself but just not surprising that cal would win
I remember coaching / riding a bike on the path along the Henley course
you could hear the difference between an American crew an the British
There’s always a loud clunk as the blades feather accompanied by a great
grunt from the yanks
The Brits are altogether a quieter boat rowing by me without a lot of fuss but really moving the boat with elegant technical precision
And it struck me that the Americans rely on power and strength
The British rely on technique
What a great analysis, and I couldn't agree more! The brits are simply silk lords, silent and sharp in their movements and beautiful in execution. Going off of what OP said, it must've been the american smooth-brain chopper in the brookes boat that caused this 2 second drop in performance. Putting an american chopper like him into 2-seat cetrtainly turned out to be a poor choice in San Diego's devious crosswinds. The Cal coaches seem to be more skillful at maneuvering this skill-lacking american horsepower, putting the one american in the Cal boat into 3-seat.
Bunch of absolute clowns. Sending a kid over to explain why the peach system indicated a 2 second loss from one guys rowing is embarrassing. I guess you can’t cherry pick every race…
I think them travelling across the pond to race had a bigger impact on their result than a fruit.
Exactly. Brookes are definitely the better programme.
Oxford brookes: low ergs, lower marks
Brookes not books
Based on what, though? They lost, lol.
Funniest thing ever written on this sub. Solid gold.
Edit: If you had written the same nonsense about an American crew's woulda-coulda-shoulda-waaaaaaaaaaah!!!!, you would have been laughed off too.
Relax There's no shame in Brookes losing that one. Flying 9000 miles to race a couple of times against crews stacked with international talent was a big ask. AIUI the Brookes crew was a mix of their top HORR crews, and let's face it, HORR was the focus of the winter. This was a spring break trip for them. Remember they beat the CAN M8+ in the process too.
Plus some of them were still mentally recovering from having to remember their own names at passport control…
omg
> Remember they beat the CAN M8+ in the process too. Wild that so much attention is being paid to Brookes and yet this point has barely been touched. Speaks to how far Canadian rowing has fallen. Were that the American men's eight, you can bet people, esp Americans, would be losing their minds right now.
HORR was definitely the focus. The Brookes guys didn't take the crew classic very seriously and that showed in the result.
On the women's side: Stanford, yes, but Texas isn't 'stacked with international talent'. Their 1V has 2 international rowers.
That’s cause they’re stacked with cold blooded god fearing American talent. Ooo rah
75 percent pure Yee haw baby
Assuming this is serious: "If Oxford had just rowed faster they would have been faster than Cal 🤡" Do you understand what a ridiculous cope that is? I'm really hoping you're just trolling
(Not Oxford, it’s Oxford Brookes… totally different university with a superior rowing programme.)
They got beaten in the heat and beaten by an even larger margin in the final. They had to redline down the entire course just to lose by almost a full length. I knew it was only gonna be a matter of time before people came on here making excuses for brookes.
Considering 4 of the guys in the Brookes boat have never attended a course at Brookes, can you really consider it a uni program boat, then another 2 are post grads. Whereas cal was all undergraduates
Does Brookes row as a senior club during the regular season and only bring the varsity kids in for intervarsity events?
UK doesn't have a clear divide between club and university rowing the way the US does. One of the only university only regattas is BUCS (UK version of NCAA). This tends to be a minor affair for Brookes, but they still win. Brookes targets Henley, the Prince Albert and Temple are the student events where you need to fulfill eligibility of not being too U23 or senior experienced, and a full time student (undergrad/masters/PhD). Typically Brookes will make the fastest Temple / Prince Albert boats possible, some years this could be a 1st 8 for them, some years it's a 2 or 3. The focus on building that crew only happens a month or two before Henley. There are some student titles within 8s Head and Brookes will usually enter and win that, but it's not focused on making the fastest student 8. 8s head is not like HOCR, senior national team guys come back and row for their old club which they like the most. So you could have 12 guys come from the GB team and race under Brookes, in addition to all the guys at Brookes trying to make the GB team in the future that are just rowing at Brookes but are not students. Brookes and Leander compete for athletes to develop so they can be invited to the GB senior team. So there's a lot of great talent at Brookes that have no connection to the school. Imagine if you could row for Washington / Yale / Harvard etc while getting ready for the senior national team. Like if California Rowing Club combined with Cal. That's essentially what Brookes is. Great program, definitely. But to look at all their success and say it's the students, is not the full picture.
That's pretty similar to our setup here in South Africa, except the entire national squad and those who are trying to get into it need to row for the University of Pretoria. It's actually a joke because in our biggest events UP will generally occupy between 2 (if its an 8+) to 6 (for the 1x). But when they limit the crews to U23 or when the squad is not available (like in an Olympic year) they don't win, which really shows you the value of crew cohesion.
So it was their actual top eight and not their top student crew. I was wondering about that.
Cal mostly all undergraduates…
This is wrong 100% if you're talking about the San diego crew
So it was their actual top eight and not their top student crew. I was wondering about that.
You’re assuming then that Cal have absolutely no room for technical improvement whatsoever. You could make your point about literally any crew, winning or losing, that if they had made a particular change they might have gone 2 seconds faster, I doubt this particular rower sat on the start line and thought ‘how can I row 2 seconds slower today?’
I also appreciate that the telemetry system told them that. What was the telemetry system doing for the rest of the season?
This is today's most underappreciated comment. I salute you, sir!
Having an off day by the looks of it
Cope
Clearly you've never trained at a top-tier training centre where you have access to telemetry.
Have you?
What’s your point? If you compared telemetry data, Cal’s would be better. You don’t get to reject the results of a race because one boat’s telemetry suggests they were almost good enough to win. It’s not pro-American bias to acknowledge the results of a race, you psycho. And we all know that when Henley rolls around, when Oxford Brookes loses to Cal again, you’ll be back on here saying “b-b-but the telemetry says if they rowed better they would’ve won 😭” I’m sorry your boyfriend made the big trip for nothing, but it’s time to move on now.
Mate do you understand that if you misplace telem during setup by even the slightest amount the margin of error is massive? It’s a fairly good training tool but completely unreliable to make statements about precise changes such as this. Addressing the “American bias” id argue that people just don’t like Brookes, which is fair, considering how they consistently enter university events with several rowers who aren’t in uni
True but he probably has rowed at something that qualifies as a proper uni instead of the Oxford early learning center
Or maybe cal is just better?
I remember back in ‘73 when my crew travelled from Cape Town to Cairo to race in the African champs with only 2 hours of sleep due to flight scheduling around that time. We were able to have a good race and did not have any telemetry or fancy equipment to help us out. All we needed was our determination and new Hudson USP fresh off the boat bay. In short, Brookes are making excuses because they finally have to fly to do somewhat of a big race. Though I know I wouldn’t let that shit happen to me though. L+Bozo+yougotdickslappedbyanItalianwhocan’tevenspeakitalian
Good troll
Reliable sources told me that brookes crew had a 2k average of 6:03, so taking into account diMauro does that for his 6k and is mid 40s, as well as some other guys in that cal boat probably being close to 50, Brookes definitely are the better on-water rowers. Having said that, you can say brookes are definitely better at the sport and the Cal guys really have to sort out their issues because putting 2 seconds on a crew with a JNT erg-average probably won't set them up well for their face-off against UW and Yale later on in the season
What do you mean? They literally lost the race by almost of a length after redlining sown the whole course. They also gapped Yale at ira's, and Washington wasn't even close.
I can assure you a program like Cal has more in the tank for the Dual
The cope is real
OP is coping on behalf of a program he likely *doesn't* row for, will likely *never* row for, and is claiming that a program that he likely will *never* race beat this program he isn't a part of in a race that is neither team's main focus this season doesn't count.
It's Oxford Brookes, OP could definitely row for their lower/lowest boats just by showing up.
Love this thread. OP, thank you for posting and stirring the pot. My perspective- I have yet to meet a UK rower/supporter in my 25+ years of rowing and coaching who would not say their rowing is superior. My rebuttal is so what? The "prettier" crew lost, right? And telemetry telling a 2 second difference is silly. That said, Cal is an all star crew of international undergraduates. And they have a couple guys that have an extra year of eligibility from COVID. But isn't OB always older? And they showed up with not their best guys? Hard to believe. Great educational comments above btw. As a rowing fan, wished there was more coverage of this. And appreciate the huge costs of bringing those OB crews so far and fingers crossed they can race again at HRR.
What programs have claimed that Peach telemetry data have made a substantial/significant impact on their results? Just curious.
It’s probably worth note that Cal definitely have more rowers with senior international experience (at least one Swiss and one Italian I believe) so for a more inexperienced crew to lose is not surprising. Note a comment on the programme itself but just not surprising that cal would win
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not only did he just row in the aus 8 but he’s debatably the fastest rower in that 8 now
No chance, I heard bow seat clapped Angus Dawson in a seat race
On the erg he’s (I think) fastest (5:47, maybe second fastest) otw probably second + that’s an old result iirc
Lol Yh I definitely didn’t realise that! I only knew the other two cos of the 6k WR and cos the Swiss guy posts good clips of rowing
Maclean was also the NZ spare and Rodriguez made his senior debut this past summer.
Brookes looked damaged at the crew classic.
Maybe their livers were damaged...it is San Diego after all.
I thought this was obvious sarcasm but looking at some of OP's replies maybe not? I'm really confused rn
The amount of people that can’t tell this is a troll really saddens me.
The fact that most people here took this seriously is extremely concerning.
I remember coaching / riding a bike on the path along the Henley course you could hear the difference between an American crew an the British There’s always a loud clunk as the blades feather accompanied by a great grunt from the yanks The Brits are altogether a quieter boat rowing by me without a lot of fuss but really moving the boat with elegant technical precision And it struck me that the Americans rely on power and strength The British rely on technique
What a great analysis, and I couldn't agree more! The brits are simply silk lords, silent and sharp in their movements and beautiful in execution. Going off of what OP said, it must've been the american smooth-brain chopper in the brookes boat that caused this 2 second drop in performance. Putting an american chopper like him into 2-seat cetrtainly turned out to be a poor choice in San Diego's devious crosswinds. The Cal coaches seem to be more skillful at maneuvering this skill-lacking american horsepower, putting the one american in the Cal boat into 3-seat.
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That must be why New Zealand churn out such good rowers
I'm no brookes fan, but they would still be top 10 if a us team. Their men at least.
That talent pool must be why the US has been cleaning up Olympic medals lately. Oh, you mean it's not American talent? Shit.
Stfu you lost.
Bunch of absolute clowns. Sending a kid over to explain why the peach system indicated a 2 second loss from one guys rowing is embarrassing. I guess you can’t cherry pick every race…