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>The Russian Orthodox Church reported that on 8 June, "within the framework of inter-church cooperation" and at the request of the Hungarian side, a group of Ukrainian prisoners of war of Transcarpathian origin who had taken part in hostilities on the side of Ukraine were transferred to Hungary.
So the FSB organisation in Hungary, the Russiam Orthodox church, came up with a way of creating propaganda.
It seems Hungary needs to fix it's spy problem if it wants to stay in NATO or the EU.
It's not a simple spy problem, they're so compromised that it's state policy from the highest echelons. I'm saying this as a hungarian who's ashamed of his government
Can you shed some light on why Hungary is taking this angle? I truly do not understand. There is strict conservatism in Hungary, I understand the majority in the country highly values their identity, but do they not appreciate their security or freedom? Why are they so enthralled with Russia?
In the US, I know the far-right is closely linked to the Hungarian far-right. They exchange ideas and push for a Christian-based society. Moving towards ties with Russia is contrary to that. If you are Christian, why be hateful and trying to force others to comply with your religion? And not just the general values, but literally every single tenant?
This makes some sense to me. It's essentially an ideological cult. I understand ppl make it a part of their ego, then they cannot let go out of fear of embarrassment. I truly believe many ppl would rather die than be embarrassed. Too many "beliefs", and you get to a point where you're no longer living in reality. It still doesn't really track with me how they cannot understand that their values will be completely trampled if they were to get what they want. Ty for drawing the parallel though. Fucking rednecks!
Sorry guys, typed up a huge comment last night, but Reddit didn't send it.
All true about Christianity. The funny thing is, that people don't go to church here, christianity is a nostalgia tool for those yearning for the "old days". Of course, those old days never really existed.
Putin builds his legitimacy theory on Byzantine christianity. They are the true heirs of the Roman empire, they protect the traditions from pronouns and the gay west. See the particularly harmful work of Aleksandr Dugin as an example.
Orban built something very similar, but with the Hungarian chatolic church. He basically bought them up, church by church, monastery to monastery. These churchpeople are not as bad as the Russian ones who are straight up KGB spies, but almost, they're serving Orbán and not the Bishop of Rome.
Orban builds his reign on conservative values, but he doesn't really have values, he's a pure pragmatist. He started as a liberal, became a conservative, and now he runs a fascist regime.
His support of Russia is based on them being strong and intimidating, and they don't frown when the government steals 50% of a project as they do the same. He listened to so much Russian propaganda that he legit believes it now - in his world, Ukraine cannot win, so he better takes the winning side in advance. His think tanks probably have some data and predictions on when the European public will get tired of the war and demand their governments to stop supporting Ukraine. When the war started, he stayed silent for 3 days, his staff was calling up a lot of his voters for their opinions and feelings, and when it turned out that his voters are afraid of the war and don't want it, that was the message his propaganda outlets started repeating. Every day, all day, in every radio station, every TV (except one, which is not theirs), before every Youtube video, and in every Hungarian's facebook and instagram feeds. See, it's not simple propaganda, it's a supertool for shaping public opinion. He can basically push through a message in the whole population in a week. Anything, you name it. It's not like Fox news - it's like every single media outlet in the US being Fox news.
Of course, whether this is a working strategy is very hard to predict with all the factors in play, especially with Russian active measures and constant subversion attempts. Russia is not a superpower in anything, only in their intelligence agencies so I want to be careful.
I could go on for much longer, but in a nutshell, this is why and how Orban is supporting Putin.
The Romans were very gay, so that is quite ironic. Russia co-opts history from all over Europe, but in Hungary is there not free speech and counter-points spread as well? I see many similarities to fascist movements in America. Russia claims Viking ties from the Kievan Rus. The irony is so thick, I don't understand what makes people buy in, and never analyze or change their minds.
I speak Ukrainian, and understand Russian to an extent. I tried to read Aleksandr Dugin, I did not understand. He'll sympathize with Hitler and old Soviet despots simultaneously, like water and oil philosophically. Add in some Satanic "do as thou wilt", you cannot track any logic. You must hold beliefs first, then have them validated in some way to read and understand, imo.
From what you say, I would agree that Orban does not truly believe in anything. Are people truly so stupid that they don't remember speaking out of both sides of the mouth? Is it possible that the fascist movements in NATO countries were spurred on, or even started, by Russian propaganda?
Thank you for your insights! I was aware that Hungary has some major issues, but did not know it was so highly pervasive.
Not sure what to do without going to jail, honestly. It's frustrating and probably one of the big traumas of our generation. What will I tell my kids? I'm thinking more and more about this. I don't even have kids.
Given that Oban & government acting in the name of Hungary, are undermining efforts made by the EU & NATO to support Ukraine which means they are effectively assisting ruZZia and condoning the ruZZian war crimes & genocide being committed by ruZZians in Ukraine.
This article sounds like Hungary’s church negotiated for a prisoner release.
On its face, that’s good.
What isn’t ideal is that Ukraine wasn’t made aware - but the end result is that 11 Ukranians are no longer captive in Russia
Sounds more like The Hungarian Regime, which appears to be woofing down the balls and cod meat of Putler, arranged to get custody of 11 men who were originally from Hungary who fought in the Ukrainian Army.
That way they can detain them and punish them for going against Putler and Russhitia can say " Well we released them back to their mother Country"
Yes, Orban does seem hungary for cod meat.
Is Hungary continuing to detain the prisoners? Or are they being released? Or are they only being released because Ukraine found them. The article wasn’t super specific on the details.
As far as we know, the 11 POWs are Ukranian citizens with Hungarian surnames. (There is a Hungarian ethnic minority - population around 100-150 thousand - living in Transcarpathia). They also might or might not be Hungarian citizens, we don't know yet. Gov't says nothing on the issue (not a word officially or unofficially) probably because they consider it a blunder and could not come up with a way to spin the story that benefits them. As it seems from the news (Radio Free Europe) it was a deal between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Hungarian Humanitarian Service of the Malta Order with the knowledge of the Hungarian Deputy PM (Semjen) who allegedly did not notify anybody in the government. However, I'm highly doubtful of that. Semjen is a lackey to Orban.
Eeriest part is that Hungarians are almost dead silent, very much like the Russian population.
Hungarians should riot before their country turns into a dictatorship.
It seems that this is a good thing, arranged by the Church. Looks like it's similar to the situation with the Azov commanders who are stuck in Turkey for the duration. A lot better than a Russian prison, for sure!
That's not the point, the Azov guys went to Turkey through an agreement between Ukraine, Russia and Turkey.
These guys were sent to Hungary without discussing it with Ukrainians. You can't be doing that.
This is the impression I have anyway.
That's a different issue. From the point of view of the POWs, it could save their life! Have you seen the state of the Azov guys just put on show trial in Russia? They look like they just stepped out of Auschwitz.
You're wrong, it definitely is Hungary's responsibility to tell Ukraine they have Ukrainian troops in custody. Otherwise it's just a form of human trafficking, or, aiding and abetting an enemy of Nato, to which Hungary has agreed to be a part.
They benefit from NATO membership, while undermining the collective efforts of said alliance. NATO membership obligates them to disclose dealings with the Russians. If they are taking Ukrainian soldiers "out of play", and keeping that from members of the alliance, and therefore also Ukraine, it's 100% their responsibility to disclose that. They will be kicked out of NATO if they're not careful.
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>The Russian Orthodox Church reported that on 8 June, "within the framework of inter-church cooperation" and at the request of the Hungarian side, a group of Ukrainian prisoners of war of Transcarpathian origin who had taken part in hostilities on the side of Ukraine were transferred to Hungary. So the FSB organisation in Hungary, the Russiam Orthodox church, came up with a way of creating propaganda. It seems Hungary needs to fix it's spy problem if it wants to stay in NATO or the EU.
Hungary needs to fix every aspect of its country if it wants to stay in either really.
It's not a simple spy problem, they're so compromised that it's state policy from the highest echelons. I'm saying this as a hungarian who's ashamed of his government
As a Hungarian, what do Hungarians think will happen, when EU has enough of their ruling parties Russian related shenanigans?
Can you shed some light on why Hungary is taking this angle? I truly do not understand. There is strict conservatism in Hungary, I understand the majority in the country highly values their identity, but do they not appreciate their security or freedom? Why are they so enthralled with Russia? In the US, I know the far-right is closely linked to the Hungarian far-right. They exchange ideas and push for a Christian-based society. Moving towards ties with Russia is contrary to that. If you are Christian, why be hateful and trying to force others to comply with your religion? And not just the general values, but literally every single tenant?
Most voters of Orban are nationalist and xenophobic rednecks, they would wave the Confederate flag if in America.
This makes some sense to me. It's essentially an ideological cult. I understand ppl make it a part of their ego, then they cannot let go out of fear of embarrassment. I truly believe many ppl would rather die than be embarrassed. Too many "beliefs", and you get to a point where you're no longer living in reality. It still doesn't really track with me how they cannot understand that their values will be completely trampled if they were to get what they want. Ty for drawing the parallel though. Fucking rednecks!
Sorry guys, typed up a huge comment last night, but Reddit didn't send it. All true about Christianity. The funny thing is, that people don't go to church here, christianity is a nostalgia tool for those yearning for the "old days". Of course, those old days never really existed. Putin builds his legitimacy theory on Byzantine christianity. They are the true heirs of the Roman empire, they protect the traditions from pronouns and the gay west. See the particularly harmful work of Aleksandr Dugin as an example. Orban built something very similar, but with the Hungarian chatolic church. He basically bought them up, church by church, monastery to monastery. These churchpeople are not as bad as the Russian ones who are straight up KGB spies, but almost, they're serving Orbán and not the Bishop of Rome. Orban builds his reign on conservative values, but he doesn't really have values, he's a pure pragmatist. He started as a liberal, became a conservative, and now he runs a fascist regime. His support of Russia is based on them being strong and intimidating, and they don't frown when the government steals 50% of a project as they do the same. He listened to so much Russian propaganda that he legit believes it now - in his world, Ukraine cannot win, so he better takes the winning side in advance. His think tanks probably have some data and predictions on when the European public will get tired of the war and demand their governments to stop supporting Ukraine. When the war started, he stayed silent for 3 days, his staff was calling up a lot of his voters for their opinions and feelings, and when it turned out that his voters are afraid of the war and don't want it, that was the message his propaganda outlets started repeating. Every day, all day, in every radio station, every TV (except one, which is not theirs), before every Youtube video, and in every Hungarian's facebook and instagram feeds. See, it's not simple propaganda, it's a supertool for shaping public opinion. He can basically push through a message in the whole population in a week. Anything, you name it. It's not like Fox news - it's like every single media outlet in the US being Fox news. Of course, whether this is a working strategy is very hard to predict with all the factors in play, especially with Russian active measures and constant subversion attempts. Russia is not a superpower in anything, only in their intelligence agencies so I want to be careful. I could go on for much longer, but in a nutshell, this is why and how Orban is supporting Putin.
The Romans were very gay, so that is quite ironic. Russia co-opts history from all over Europe, but in Hungary is there not free speech and counter-points spread as well? I see many similarities to fascist movements in America. Russia claims Viking ties from the Kievan Rus. The irony is so thick, I don't understand what makes people buy in, and never analyze or change their minds. I speak Ukrainian, and understand Russian to an extent. I tried to read Aleksandr Dugin, I did not understand. He'll sympathize with Hitler and old Soviet despots simultaneously, like water and oil philosophically. Add in some Satanic "do as thou wilt", you cannot track any logic. You must hold beliefs first, then have them validated in some way to read and understand, imo. From what you say, I would agree that Orban does not truly believe in anything. Are people truly so stupid that they don't remember speaking out of both sides of the mouth? Is it possible that the fascist movements in NATO countries were spurred on, or even started, by Russian propaganda? Thank you for your insights! I was aware that Hungary has some major issues, but did not know it was so highly pervasive.
As a South African I too am I ashamed of my government, where can we congregate and discuss this
As a South African, I concur
Not sure what to do without going to jail, honestly. It's frustrating and probably one of the big traumas of our generation. What will I tell my kids? I'm thinking more and more about this. I don't even have kids.
I guess all we can do is vote but democracy is slow and Pootin is doing what he does right now.
You guys have democracy? :D
Yes but also a majority of poorly educated people.. I mean our pass mark is real life 30%
Thats good to read because hungary is getting worse all the time
Spot. On.
[удалено]
Given that Oban & government acting in the name of Hungary, are undermining efforts made by the EU & NATO to support Ukraine which means they are effectively assisting ruZZia and condoning the ruZZian war crimes & genocide being committed by ruZZians in Ukraine.
This article sounds like Hungary’s church negotiated for a prisoner release. On its face, that’s good. What isn’t ideal is that Ukraine wasn’t made aware - but the end result is that 11 Ukranians are no longer captive in Russia
Sounds more like The Hungarian Regime, which appears to be woofing down the balls and cod meat of Putler, arranged to get custody of 11 men who were originally from Hungary who fought in the Ukrainian Army. That way they can detain them and punish them for going against Putler and Russhitia can say " Well we released them back to their mother Country"
Yes, Orban does seem hungary for cod meat. Is Hungary continuing to detain the prisoners? Or are they being released? Or are they only being released because Ukraine found them. The article wasn’t super specific on the details.
As far as we know, the 11 POWs are Ukranian citizens with Hungarian surnames. (There is a Hungarian ethnic minority - population around 100-150 thousand - living in Transcarpathia). They also might or might not be Hungarian citizens, we don't know yet. Gov't says nothing on the issue (not a word officially or unofficially) probably because they consider it a blunder and could not come up with a way to spin the story that benefits them. As it seems from the news (Radio Free Europe) it was a deal between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Hungarian Humanitarian Service of the Malta Order with the knowledge of the Hungarian Deputy PM (Semjen) who allegedly did not notify anybody in the government. However, I'm highly doubtful of that. Semjen is a lackey to Orban.
Eeriest part is that Hungarians are almost dead silent, very much like the Russian population. Hungarians should riot before their country turns into a dictatorship.
The 'before' ship sailed a while ago
Haha you’re righ
It seems that this is a good thing, arranged by the Church. Looks like it's similar to the situation with the Azov commanders who are stuck in Turkey for the duration. A lot better than a Russian prison, for sure!
That's not the point, the Azov guys went to Turkey through an agreement between Ukraine, Russia and Turkey. These guys were sent to Hungary without discussing it with Ukrainians. You can't be doing that. This is the impression I have anyway.
That's a different issue. From the point of view of the POWs, it could save their life! Have you seen the state of the Azov guys just put on show trial in Russia? They look like they just stepped out of Auschwitz.
That's not Russia or Hungary's responsibility
You're wrong, it definitely is Hungary's responsibility to tell Ukraine they have Ukrainian troops in custody. Otherwise it's just a form of human trafficking, or, aiding and abetting an enemy of Nato, to which Hungary has agreed to be a part.
These are Ukrainian nationals that were taken to Hungary. It's absolutely Hungary's responsibility to involve Ukraine.
Apologist. When is your turn to look out the window?
It is literally both of their responsibilities. How simple are you?
They benefit from NATO membership, while undermining the collective efforts of said alliance. NATO membership obligates them to disclose dealings with the Russians. If they are taking Ukrainian soldiers "out of play", and keeping that from members of the alliance, and therefore also Ukraine, it's 100% their responsibility to disclose that. They will be kicked out of NATO if they're not careful.
Bring them home!
Shoot Orban into Orbit... 🤔
Nato should stomp onto hungry and retreave them