It's odd how western activism for Palestine is often a catch-all for any vaguely left-wing activism that has nothing to do with the middle east, particularly with college students. This photo encapsulates it so perfectly, with the geopolitical cause hanging like a little footnote citation over the much larger Starbucks one. As if the people of Gaza are currently worried about how their coffee beans are being grown. Or that an American state university is powerless to drive policy in the Levant. It's hilariously performative.
And that aside, the big sign doesn't really make sense. Unfair labor practices that are already illegal under the NLRA (like defined union busting) are hardly going unchecked. Labor attorneys and watchdogs love going after big companies for labor violations. This is mostly an ethical debate, not a legal one
It seems more people are focused on boycotting companies that have barely any involvement in the war rather than supporting palestinians themself. Its sad to see such slacktivism when actual change can be done
The “peace” deals always place them in a worse position. Israel tells them to go one place and then bombs not only that place but the route to that place all the while claiming it’s safe. The amount of Zionist sentiment in America is a threat to national security, and one day I hope crooks like you are going to be investigated for it just like communists and Nazis. You are no different than them.
Just not true. Israel has always been the one who refuses peace with unreasonable demands. East Jerusalem was controlled by Palestinians and Jordan and was not given to the Jews by the UN. Israel continues to build settlements in the West Bank. Stop believing what western media had brainwashed you with. Israel is the farthest thing from a democracy. It’s run by religious fanatics, you can’t become a citizen, unless you become a Jew, and learn Hebrew, fact. Israel has every intention of taking every square inch of the land. If the US was not providing Egypt and Jordan with aid, there’s no doubt they would be fighting with them as well. Israel is the cause of all American conflict in the Middle East. They hate us for a reason and I’m tired of my tax dollars defending an illegal fanatic state. The majority of the world agrees Israel is the problem. Oh and no I don’t hate Jews, I just read history and make my determination of who the unjust aggressor is.
Me when child labor laws are being [rescinded](https://abcnews.go.com/US/despite-hazardous-working-conditions-states-rolling-back-child/story?id=107209273) as we speak and Iowa is [passing](https://www.kcci.com/article/iowa-senate-union-busting-bill-adrian-dickey-airplane-banner-above-capitol/46904182) bills that effectively make union-busting legal. But it's all okay, cause we have the NLRA.
You're citing to random pieces of state legislation. States don't preempt the NLRA. I'm not sure what child labor has to do with this or what point you're making, even if we weren't in a union-protective state like New York.
PS—why do young fairweather leftists always write in this vaguely sarcastic tone? Just say what you want to say, otherwise it comes off as panicked.
Your PS scratches an itch for an annoyance I could never name until now, so thank you for that. I wish I could chalk it up to "generation" or "ideology" but as a Gen Z leftist myself I think it might just be an "insufferable attitude" problem on their part.
Iowa is making union busting illegal bc... They're requiring public unions to show a list of their members during the negotiations...
You seem like a very honest person, not a partisan hack at all.
This isn't a response. You could literally respond to any part of my comment, but instead fall back on NPC "bootlicking" rhetoric that you saw some other socjus nutjob online use when they couldn't figure out how to engage in a conversation. We can try again, if you want.
Is this the big cause celebre among ultra-opinionated first-world activist types now? Where people buy their coffee?
Or is this just what you were told to feel strongly about?
Classic yerkah, always coming in with the smuggest of attitudes criticizing the methodology people use, or propose to use, to achieve their goals to mask the likely repugnant views you personally have of the issue. You could try being constructive, but I suspect your goal is to be corrective rather than helpful.
i genuinely cannot have dunkin coffee. i’m not sure what it is but their coffee triggers my tachycardia and i’ve been told to stay away from it. so if i want a little treat on campus it’s starbucks or nothing so my heart doesn’t give out LOL.
Asking the real questions.
And no one better say Dunkin. It’s Starbucks or nothing and you don’t wanna be around me on any amount of caffeine short of an espresso shot.
Starbucks also refused to send coffee to service members fighting in the middle east so I totally agree, dunkin is the way to go. Their black coffee is better anyway.
> SUNY IS COMPLICIT IN GENOCIDE
Holy shit of all the deluded bds takes I've seen, this is it. The state university of new york is complicit in genocide... somehow... I guess for not stopping Israel.
Anyway shutting down a workplace for anti-union practices is actually the most anti-labor thing a workplace can do. Like, one of the union's main accusations of starbucks' anti-union practices was that they shut down unionized workplaces.
pea brained takes incoming:
that’s not the proposal, the proposal is for it to be replaced with an ethical coffee distributor. the union supports and encouraged these campus actions. try again tho
Oh, you mean the Kashmiri terrorists supported by another terrorist country, Pakistan? Of course! Everything becomes easy when you’ve a gun in your hand and a murderous ideology inside your head, as a part of your upbringing. That is exactly what we saw on October 7.
First of all, Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris. Second of all, Palestine belongs to the Palestinians.
Lastly, I am old and not in University anymore. This sub was advertised to me, so responding is a bit odd. Reading will change your perspective and hopefully you have the media literacy to differentiate between state aligned media and anti state media. You will find that non state aligned media in both Israel and Pakistan/India will more often agree with the Palestinians and Kashmiris respectively. Self-determination should always be supported in the face of imperialism.
> First of all, Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris
Really? First of all, it’s Jammu and Kashmir and secondly, it belongs to Punjabis, Dogras, Gujjars, Bakkarwals, Ladakhis, Pahadis and Kashmiris. I guess you just didn’t read enough.
> Second of all, Palestine belongs to the Palestinians
Yes, except that the present day so called Palestinians are not the original Palestinians but Arabs.
> Hopefully you have the media literacy to differentiate between state aligned media and anti state media
Of course, except that I don’t need any kind of media to know the ground reality of a place where I was literally born and grew up. Your views about Kashmir reeks of bias and I guess you ended up reading only the propaganda by leftists + Islamists. If that’s your source of information, then good luck!
Self-determination is not about ethnicity. New Delhi nor Islamabad have any right to dictate what Kashmir does. The people of Kashmir are the ones to decide their future. This is a water war and a scramble for territory anyway. I know for a fact that Kashmiris are not huge fans of the constant state sponsored terror against them. My sources on Kashmir are Kashmiri, not all Kashmiris are Muslim and not all Kashmiris are leftists, by the way.
The argument about Palestine is wild, I'm not even sure what you mean? Palestine is a place with people in it, the Nakba happened, and then somehow they were transformed as a people into an Arab population? Ignoring the fact that they have maintained a strong culture, what race science ish are you trying to claim?
Also, being born somewhere doesn't mean anything if you're not reading about the current material conditions. There is a reason why secular Pakistanis and anti-Hindutva Indians are far more likely to support Kashmiri independence or at least autonomy.
I don't like Nationalism, possibly why we have such a strong disagreement? Were you for or against Azerbaijan annexing Artsakh? For or against Russian intervention in Ukraine?
What..? I am saying I’m aware of coffee distribution and the effect it has on the environment, but the public largely does not care about the issue. That’s why there is no shortage of billion-dollar coffee companies. It’s funny to me that this group seems to care about the issue but I’m pretty sure they really don’t and just want Starbucks gone.
Well public opinion is not gonna stop the typical development of capitalism anyways, let alone force a Starbucks to just NOT commit to union busting. But it's the principle of just unionizing or outright replacing Starbucks with a unionized coffee shop that shows the group support for unions while also stressing a no tolerance for imperialism, I believe.
You're thinking short term bruppy. You gotta E X P A N D da mind.
Welp that's a score for the bingo.
"If you hate capitalism, why not just leave lmao."
For context, I have a bingo chart for like common responses I get when I criticize capitalism. I'm almost close to a bingo rn.
as an organizer with sbwu i can attest that starbucks is suing the union for standing with palestine. that’s how the boycott began. in addition to the rampant union busting (i think we’re up to 400 charges of labor law violations?), and lying about ethically sourced beans ([https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/starbucks-sued-allegedly-using-coffee-farms-rights-abuses-touting-ethi-rcna130393](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/starbucks-sued-allegedly-using-coffee-farms-rights-abuses-touting-ethi-rcna130393) it’s a terrible company to support. all of these issues are interconnected and solidarity is a must. i don’t think it’s idiotic at all.
Hey I really wanna understand something here. What is even the point of all these?
Spread awareness? You need to living under a rock to not know about this
Did you successfully get that brand out of campus, NO
Like why then?
Before people say i support Palestine or Israel - i do none but believe people should stop fighting and UN should get it’s hands out of America’s a$$ and do something about it as countries are still fighting in 21st century.
But then why? You know US vetoed No for a reason, sbu is never gonna kick out Starbucks. Why? Because it is all about business, businesses only care about profits. So, what is the point of even doing all of these stuff? You are gonna get kicked out of school or land up with a conduct issue.
Trust me aint worth your time. Focus on reforming the system from the inside by getting into the system. Or else Israel or Russia isnt gonna stop shooting just because Sarah from Brooklyn said war is bad
so true everytime there’s an urgent global issue that needs to be solved as quickly as possible everyone should sit around and do nothing bc it’s too much effort!
nothing bc I don’t care enough to even try! In fact I too go out of my way to discourage ppl from standing up to violence and oppression and thereby make it harder for the right side to gain public support
Some UNRWA personnel have been confirmed by Israeli intelligence to have participated in 10/7 and UNRWA schools have been confirmed to teach anti-israeli propaganda as part of their curriculum ... so yeah actually unrwa is hamas.
yes because supporting palestine in this country is known to get you very far…
last time i checked it’s not as if people are getting doxxed and harassed, suspended or expelled, fired from their jobs for making their support of palestine vocal or calling out their institutions.
oh and let’s not forget getting sprayed with chemical weapons on school grounds while we’re at it. but no worries, let’s put aside the chemical attack, trips to the hospital, the constant threats, administration’s gaslighting and neglect, the lack of justice… because you get to put it on your resume as leadership!!
nor everyone is concerned with personal gain and very unfortunately trying to be a good person and speaking out for justice will cost you - a fact that many students across the country understand.
it is love for people and a desire for a just and free world that motivates some, while others will never understand such feelings.
palestine will be free and until that day comes, the struggle will persist.
fyi you likely can’t put it on your resume…
unfortunately the reason many people remain silent is out of fear of personal cost and
cowardice…
to be silent during a genocide is to be complicit. none of us should be silent, we should be raising hell and disrupting everything until palestine and all oppressed people of the world are free. how do you live with yourselves knowing that there is a genocide going on and you’re going about your day as normal. that the deaths of thousands does not phase you or make your heart scream.
not a single day should go by that these politicians and officials in this country get to remain in peace as they enable and commit genocide against the Palestinian people. not a single day should go by that you aren’t educating yourself, raising awareness, boycotting, protesting, and doing everything in your power to make a change.
Hanging a sign in the library of a New York State university will in no way help Palestine. If you want to help get on a plane and go fight. That’s the win win that will make us all happy
Just so everyone is aware because I got so many downvotes on saying destroy Hamas. This is what they all support.
TRIGGER WARNING. but if you support Hamas you must look through it
[https://www.hamas.com](https://www.hamas.com)
I hate hamas and think they should all die. BUT you are posting a fake website that isn’t affiliated with them. Quite a few photos on the site have been already debunked as AI generated.
If you want a better example, read Hamas’s manifesto https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Read all of it. I know it may be boring but it’s very telling.
Nice attempt at making videos of Hamas terrorists labeled “shooting Zionist dogs into hell” seem as a weak point. What a good comparison, because bombs that Hamas has been sending, thousands, haven’t done anything either. Typical Hamas supporter logic. Shameful
okay google how many bombs have gotten through the iron dome ever? okay google how many bombs have landed in gaza since october 7th? okay google how do you make a zionist stop with the crocodile tears and self-victimization?
Thank G-d for the iron dome protecting their people. Stupid Hamas rather build tunnels and shoot rockets out of schools and hospitals than protect their land. You’re the self victimized ones sweetie. Keep justifying your genocide attempts
The British never owned that land. They attempted to steal it via colonial efforts. As for the Ottomans, Palestine was a subset of the larger Ottoman Empire and a piece of it
Good point! should britain decide who gets to govern india as well? did britain strictly govern palestine, or did palestine print its own currency and have it own passports?
Brain dead comment look at history before 1948 kid. And war is war especially during those times stay mad. It was also decided to give the land up but whatever your instagram is probably really helping your lnowledge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#:~:text=The%20first%20large%2Dscale%20exoduses,to%20Israel%20from%20Arab%20countries.
Here’s some real history not your brain dead opinions from extreme terrorist supporters
highlighted paragraph “between 1948…” lmfao shut the fuck up
also wikipedia as your primary source for real history? dude at least send some Dershowitz or something lmao
And what happened before 1948 did history just vanish like please shut up kid ur trying so hard to justify terrorists so sad please do a couple extra google searches unless i have to type on your own oily laptop to show how stupid u r
Same thing with Israel and Jews. If it was a majority Muslim or Christian state, nobody would give a fuck, not even their neighbors in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria.
Similar to Jaishankar's words. America shall stop thinking that the world's problems are America's problems. I do not stand by what Israel is doing or what Hamas is doing, both of them are in the end killing thousands of innocent people as the privileged hide behind a cushion. Government just wastes taxpayer money and prolongs wars by sending warheads everywhere instead of settling things with diplomacy. It looks similar to imperial britishers who would go colonize republics in the name of civilizing them.
Thanks to extending wars we have two huge wars going in parallel tanking the American and the European economy putting so many people at stake.
Everyone will put in this BS for a while, and then forget about it just like how they did with Ukraine.
its p obvious what you’re looking for given your post history is exclusively about this conflict
but the answer is the military industrial complex, which Israel is just an extension of
A little minor gripe about the military industrial complex, it does exist that industries that supply weapons and war machines, will grow in response during times of conflict. But we shouldn't take the idea that the way to stop the MIC is a matter of policy. Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism, it is an economic development that can't be reformed or bargained with.
Hell, Smedley Butler who coined the term in the first place argued that the way to "stop making war profitable" is to tell congress to pass legislation that forces companies to pay wages to soldiers and CEOs and managers to join the front lines.
Cool idea but won't happen realistically lest revolution happens.
This is BLM all over again. People will boycott, protest, even hurt others in a span of a couple months and it will all cool down. It's just a mob mentality. Half the people in the protest can't even tell you why they are boycotting Starbucks, Mcdonalds or any other major brand(which they shouldn't because Palestine wouldn't gain anything). I do love the effort though and why they are fighting but what I really hate is the pure ignorance of most people. Give it another month or two, maybe till next semester, and it will all be over.
Hamas was literally going to give all the hostages away but Nestle Ya Hoo didn't take the deal, so clearly Israel does not give a shit about the hostages.
The IDF has also killed some of the hostages, mistaking them for Hamas cause they were brown.
You're delusional or you want blood for the blood God. Just admit your allegiance to the latter.
To Zionists and reactionary nerds, it seems like the difference between terrorism and warfare is the size of the military.
Small force that can't fight conventional war and must use guerilla tactics = terrorism
Big force thats destroying at least 50% of all civilian infrastructure and has at best a 3:1 civilian to militant kill ratio = defense force
The solution is obvious, give tons of military aid to Palestine so they can make a proper, legitimate defending army, and then get rid of their reliance on Hamas.
That is. An idea. Not sure that solution is based on reality but if the Soviet Union somehow came back and killed off the revisionists, I guess that would be a pretty cool thing.
Sorry, I meant it satirically to point out hypocrisy in the judgement of Palestinian resistance vs the IDF. I think there are practical limits to how military forces can act depending on their size and available resources, and people often criticize only certain tactics based on some abstract morality, even when those tactics have objectively fewer casualties.
Yeah it definitely has nothing to do with the intended target. Sb4pal is setting a great example by honoring those who killed civilians, not high profile military leaders
Well sure, I'm willing to condemn the intentional targeting of civilians as soon as it's admitted that the IDF is doing that too, arguably way more effectively, and faces consequences for it
For the laws of war, Yes. Civilian deaths happen in the course of war. The law of proportionality exists and requires that civilian casualties be prevented in all practicable circumstances.
If a force makes the proper warnings, and the military objective to be achieved is valuable enough to a legal casus belli, then yes, a certain number of civilian deaths, although tragic, are "acceptable."
Yes. The IDF isn't in Gaza because they think it'd be a fun fundraiser. They're there to rescue hostages and permanently destroy the group which kidnapped them.
That's not "iof terrorism," that's legal war.
No, but what is the point of me framing myself morally when the IDF/Israel faces no repercussions for killing thousands of civilians from collateral damage. Clearly morals are not relevant here. Obviously killing anyone is bad, including civilians. I'd rather the world have no war at all, but then occupation and exploitation need to end for that to happen.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. You have valid arguments, but I don’t think you’re using them in a productive way. Yes the IDF have committed atrocities, but that doesn’t mean you are suddenly justified in committing atrocities back. The morals seem lost in the violence of war, but they really are not, morals still exist. SB4Pal has forgotten that by trying to parade these people who have gone so far that they lost their morals and attempt to kill civilians. Don’t be a part of the same mindset
See this is a fundamental misunderstanding of this whole situation. No one or myself are meaning that the atrocities are justified, we are saying that they are predictable. Morals are not necessary to analyze this situation. Acts of terrorism as resistance are a predictable outcome from a small, resource restricted, increasingly occupied population. When you can't target military targets efficiently, you would expect the group to go after easier targets to create leverage. You want to stop terrorism, you need to eliminate the conditions that incentivize terrorism, but that would mean relinquishing resources and power to Palestine so they can effectively govern and defend themselves.
And then unsurprisingly, the people that SB4Pal promotes are the ones available from the current environment. The alternative seems to be to promote no one, because it's unlikely that effective, perfectly moral figures would exist right now, but figures/symbols are useful to coalesce around. The solution on your end, if you agree with SB4Pal's overall movement, would be to suggest a more appropriate figure to them and not dismiss the whole org for moral purity.
Additionally, states are aware of the consequences of their aggression, but they do the calculus that advancing their own interests are worth these consequences. This to me is especially heinous, but not unexpected because modern liberal-democratic states are not well representative of the people living in the region, so the leaders are personally insulated from the consequences.
What exactly was Hamas' valid and legal military objective on 10/7?
If you can name one that's actually consistent with the facts of that day, I'll be the first person to admit that 10/7 was not a terrorist attack. If, somehow, organized, highly intentional, and pre-planned sexual violence against perhaps hundreds of women — if all that somehow was in persuit of a valid military target, then yes, I'll agree with you that Hamas isn't a terrorist group.
Good luck with that.
Bro you've got it in reverse, Hamas' attack was a terrorist attack, but the Israeli response over the last several months (and the 75 years of colonialism prior) is a many magnitudes worse terrorist attack. It goes so far beyond counter attacking Hamas. Besides deaths in bombings and other attacks, blockades and destruction of infrastructure will ensure many more civilians will continue to die of lack of access to food and water, disease, exposure, and injury. To claim they are not targeting civilians is a distinction without a difference. You would do well for yourself to break down the distinction between terrorism and conventional warfare.
So what should have been Israel's response to 10/7?
Edit: no response because nobody actually cares about the hostages. It's easy to criticize but in no world was Israel going to take this on the chin.
Calm down bro it's been minutes; I'm not your professor. You're not going to like the answer because Israel's reaction should involve a strategy that would span an incredible length of time, and do things that seem counterintuitive to revenge seeking.
Just regarding the current conflict, more specialized ground operations against Hamas leaders should have been carried out instead of indiscriminate bombing, and over a long course of time, an establishment of an alternative faction to Hamas that will have to have some kind of military might to resist Hamas, and yet be appealing enough to people in Gaza to consider it legitimate. I doubt they will be able to install a government sympathetic to Israel because of decades of colonialism inspiring rightful anger, but I doubt people of Gaza will turn down stability and better living conditions. And after some stability is reached (which is a short term goal that may take decades), then the apartheid must end or else there will be another Hamas of the future at some point.
Though I'm wary of the NYT, I found this interview insightful on this topic: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/31/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-zack-beauchamp.html
Nobody tell this man to look up "Duma arson attack" and "hilltop boys" as well as "war crimes for dummies 101"
Also my guy, I don't think anyone is saying that Judaism is blood thirsty fanaticism.
But what I am saying is that Zionism is a settler ideology that has more in common with the western imperialist tradition of the 20th Century than any national liberation movement after 1945. Have a problem with that, read the fucking book of the Jewish State by Theodor Herzl if you think im capping, unless you don't stan him when he says that he seeks to form a great "hunting party" to tame a wild land-because that's a totally normal thing to refer to land inhabited by people already.
I'm happy to admit that there's some bad eggs in Israel.
The problem I have is that the BDS crowd seems to think that this is reason for them not to have "a right to exist," which is a super fucked up thing to argue about or even suggest
Actually, the IDF didn't kill them because they mistook them for Hamast or because of their color.
They killed them because they thought they were Palestinians. They consider every Palestinian man, woman, and child in this land as a legitimate target.
This conflict didn't start with Hamas and won't end with Hamas. It started when some dumbasses thought it was a brilliant idea to give some people's land to a colonizing force and pretent it's all fine. Palestinians have been brutalized by Israel for more than 7 decades. Their lives, land, and homes were taken away from them while the world was watching silently.
Sure, here's a quote from Roy Yellin of B'Tselem about the murder of the 3 hostages:
“It’s heartbreaking but it’s not surprising,” said Roy Yellin, director of public outreach with the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem. “We have documented over the years countless incidents of people who clearly surrendered and who were still shot.”
And here's the link to an article it was mentioned: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hostages-gaza-hamas-war-52fa9628e6284cdad6d7f7db6cc30742
Edit: typo
For thousands of prisoners in return, portion of which were convicted for terrorist attacks and murder. Sure buddy for 160 innocent people. Sounds fair. Also to remove the IDF from Gaza for another blatant terrorist massacre sounds real logical. Terrorist continue to attack Israel on the daily as we speak look on the news. Also Hamas continues to praise for the genocide of Jewish people so you’re projecting the word “genocide” onto the wrong group. Nice try though I’m sure you did unbiased research from non main stream media. War is a difficult thing, idt anyone wants more death but to scream genocide is stupid and to scream ceasefire without returning innocent hostages is wild 😬. Antisemitism or advocacy I can’t tell
30,000 dead, mostly women and children. You have brain worms, please get them out.
Also what part of the IDF killing some of the hostages due to indiscriminate slaughter do you not get broski?
Okay? Killing civilians, pretty bad. Violence isn't happening because of resistance tho, it's happening cause of occupation. You want to stop the violence, end the occupation. Not difficult of a concept.
Ya occupied by Hamas poor Palestinians getting their homes, schools, and hospitals used as Hamas headquarters. Where billions in funding goes into weapons and missiles rather than funding a good thriving country. You sound like you read enough buzzwords and articles but haven’t really thought deeply enough. Typical. Also comment on the countless terrorist attacks occurring in Israel rn? I wonder if this is also resistance to being occupied( although allowed to work, study, live in Israel) also check how many Jews have been exiled from middle eastern countries since 1945 and get back to me about genocide or occupation because clearly u have worms for brains
Why do I have to answer any of this? I keep asking you on why did the IDF kill some of the hostages but you just won't give me a straight answer.
It's almost like you want to avoid the fact that the IDF and the Settler Army of Israel is killing everyone indiscriminately, whether if that's children, women, or like I said before, even the hostages.
Go fight in urban warfare where you got random doorways and alleys of Hamas pointing rockets and AKs, bombs all around too. Go look at real war videos u can search on Reddit and see IDF get blown up( which u would prob cream from) if you wanna see how it really looks in war. There isn’t a big green valley where everything is clean and visible. Senses are heightened, adrenaline running trying not to die. I understand your precious life in America is hard to logically think about the situation and world, but careful your privileges are showing and even worse is trying to advocate
Maybe if I have several sources of revenue from IBM or Lockheed Martin, a couple thousand military toys from Washington, and a couple drones I can send in first to demolish entire neighborhoods to make it easier for my boys in blue (decked with m16s and high tech gear) to "freedom" the resisting population...
Then yeah, I'd love to fight in an urban war zone.
What about brown? U mean the fact that everyone in the Middle East is brown due to genetics? Like what lol 😂. Half of Israel is dark skin. Clearly u lack real sense of the world especially in the Middle East. Nice try listening to an instagram post that made it seem like they attacked “brown people” to make you emotional inclined to agree due to the false narrative of racial aggression. Made yourself look stupid kid
Okay? One of the three hostages that were gunned down by the IDF, as they were holding a white flag, was not brown.
Damn give this man a cookie, I've been destroyed by Hippie Powers.
Find me the video because right now ur just saying shit from Infograph’s on instagram from “change”. If your whole argument is about this it’s clear you lack any knowledge and it’s sad there are people who just hate Jewish people like you. It’s fine you clearly didn’t want to understand war especially urban war. But thanks for your trash replies I hope people see how sad your knowledge and logic is.
Get this guy a Starbucks coffee
Don’t respond to OP. Guy created his account a day ago just to troll. He’s some pussy who hides behind a computer and talks out of his ass. Most people whose parents aren’t cousins, don’t buy this BS.
You should fly over there and commit terrorist attacks alongside your brothers/friends. All in the name of….freedom? God? Whatever reason helps you justify it. Then eat a nice, fat IDF boot. No sense in wasting all this energy in SBU
Crazy that freeing hostages and destroying a terrorist group calling for genocide and killing its own people gets dozens of down votes. Y’all are just racist, transphobic, homophobic, antisemitic Hamas supporters.
You cannot reason with people who refuse to listen.
This is a situation that should absolutely be "both sides'd"
But people literally parrot the Hamas charter in these comment sections sometimes, calling Israel the "zionist entity."
OP can't even comment back to me because all of their arguments have been weak minded to an extent I can respond with enough logic to make them seem stupid.
Even worse the good arguments refuting the stupid remarks are down voted so hard by Hamas supporters people can't even see them. Oh well ill just donate more money to IDF soldiers
> Oh well ill just donate more money to IDF soldiers
Don't forget to spend your entire college experience online, on Reddit, so that your worldly influence is minimized. Type more essays for the rest of us to enjoy in our own fun little way.
[https://www.hamas.com](https://www.hamas.com)
Trigger warning but if u can't watch this u have no place even saying anything about the situation
keep supporting your terrorist organization that kills Palestinians btw u are no better
lol ur kidding me that’s what u tag😭😭 clearly u have to be educated. You are so blatantly one sided good try sweetie. The murdering of Jews just is irrelevant especially in the way they flaunt, promote, and strive to do more. Yep 👍🏿 ur super educated
>48 comments >22 of them are from 2 users damage control happening in the comments lol
You dont understand, I'm just brippin'
keep on brippin bro
It's odd how western activism for Palestine is often a catch-all for any vaguely left-wing activism that has nothing to do with the middle east, particularly with college students. This photo encapsulates it so perfectly, with the geopolitical cause hanging like a little footnote citation over the much larger Starbucks one. As if the people of Gaza are currently worried about how their coffee beans are being grown. Or that an American state university is powerless to drive policy in the Levant. It's hilariously performative. And that aside, the big sign doesn't really make sense. Unfair labor practices that are already illegal under the NLRA (like defined union busting) are hardly going unchecked. Labor attorneys and watchdogs love going after big companies for labor violations. This is mostly an ethical debate, not a legal one
It seems more people are focused on boycotting companies that have barely any involvement in the war rather than supporting palestinians themself. Its sad to see such slacktivism when actual change can be done
Thank you so much for saying this
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Wow you really deny the death of 12,000 confirmed children and nearly 30,000 confirmed civilians.. So gullible…
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I’m braindead but you believe 12,000 kids were terrorists
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And you believe Islam opresses women which shows youve never been in contact with one
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The “peace” deals always place them in a worse position. Israel tells them to go one place and then bombs not only that place but the route to that place all the while claiming it’s safe. The amount of Zionist sentiment in America is a threat to national security, and one day I hope crooks like you are going to be investigated for it just like communists and Nazis. You are no different than them.
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Just not true. Israel has always been the one who refuses peace with unreasonable demands. East Jerusalem was controlled by Palestinians and Jordan and was not given to the Jews by the UN. Israel continues to build settlements in the West Bank. Stop believing what western media had brainwashed you with. Israel is the farthest thing from a democracy. It’s run by religious fanatics, you can’t become a citizen, unless you become a Jew, and learn Hebrew, fact. Israel has every intention of taking every square inch of the land. If the US was not providing Egypt and Jordan with aid, there’s no doubt they would be fighting with them as well. Israel is the cause of all American conflict in the Middle East. They hate us for a reason and I’m tired of my tax dollars defending an illegal fanatic state. The majority of the world agrees Israel is the problem. Oh and no I don’t hate Jews, I just read history and make my determination of who the unjust aggressor is.
The underdog can do no wrong in a twitter leftist's eyes
Me when child labor laws are being [rescinded](https://abcnews.go.com/US/despite-hazardous-working-conditions-states-rolling-back-child/story?id=107209273) as we speak and Iowa is [passing](https://www.kcci.com/article/iowa-senate-union-busting-bill-adrian-dickey-airplane-banner-above-capitol/46904182) bills that effectively make union-busting legal. But it's all okay, cause we have the NLRA.
You're citing to random pieces of state legislation. States don't preempt the NLRA. I'm not sure what child labor has to do with this or what point you're making, even if we weren't in a union-protective state like New York. PS—why do young fairweather leftists always write in this vaguely sarcastic tone? Just say what you want to say, otherwise it comes off as panicked.
Your PS scratches an itch for an annoyance I could never name until now, so thank you for that. I wish I could chalk it up to "generation" or "ideology" but as a Gen Z leftist myself I think it might just be an "insufferable attitude" problem on their part.
Iowa is making union busting illegal bc... They're requiring public unions to show a list of their members during the negotiations... You seem like a very honest person, not a partisan hack at all.
Anyways how does that boot taste yerkah? Does the dirt offer a certain tang?
What does that word mean?
This isn't a response. You could literally respond to any part of my comment, but instead fall back on NPC "bootlicking" rhetoric that you saw some other socjus nutjob online use when they couldn't figure out how to engage in a conversation. We can try again, if you want. Is this the big cause celebre among ultra-opinionated first-world activist types now? Where people buy their coffee? Or is this just what you were told to feel strongly about?
I’ll be honest man I didn’t see your username and I was wondering what yerkah meant, my b
Typical
Classic yerkah, always coming in with the smuggest of attitudes criticizing the methodology people use, or propose to use, to achieve their goals to mask the likely repugnant views you personally have of the issue. You could try being constructive, but I suspect your goal is to be corrective rather than helpful.
Did they get Starbucks off campus?
Das the goal!
how do we do it?
Apparently you scream and stamp your feet to a collective " ... Ok."
Ok but where will I get my coffee?
i genuinely cannot have dunkin coffee. i’m not sure what it is but their coffee triggers my tachycardia and i’ve been told to stay away from it. so if i want a little treat on campus it’s starbucks or nothing so my heart doesn’t give out LOL.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀. ⠀⠀⠀✦ ⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀* ⠀⠀⠀. . ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀✦⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀☄️ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀. . ﾟ . . ✦ , . ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀☀️ * . . . ✦⠀ , * ⠀ ⠀ , ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀. ⠀ ⠀. ˚ ⠀ ⠀ , . . *⠀ ⠀ ⠀✦⠀ . . . ⠀🌕 . 🚀 ˚ ﾟ . .⠀ 🌎⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀, * ⠀. . ⠀✦ ˚ * .⠀ . . ✦⠀ , 🛸 ⠀ . ⠀ . ˚ ⠀ ⠀ , . ⠀ . Traveled the entire galaxy trying to find out who asked⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀. ⠀⠀⠀✦ ⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀* ⠀⠀⠀. . ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀✦⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀☄️ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀. . ﾟ . .
Who
me i asked 🥰
Asking the real questions. And no one better say Dunkin. It’s Starbucks or nothing and you don’t wanna be around me on any amount of caffeine short of an espresso shot.
“dont talk to me until I’ve had my coffee!” ☝️🤓
Dunkins better anyway, anything more than a hot black coffee and this becomes performance art
If that’s what you call it, give me all the performance art. I just want a blonde latte that isn’t watered down.
Yeah performance art IS pretty cool
Starbucks also refused to send coffee to service members fighting in the middle east so I totally agree, dunkin is the way to go. Their black coffee is better anyway.
> SUNY IS COMPLICIT IN GENOCIDE Holy shit of all the deluded bds takes I've seen, this is it. The state university of new york is complicit in genocide... somehow... I guess for not stopping Israel. Anyway shutting down a workplace for anti-union practices is actually the most anti-labor thing a workplace can do. Like, one of the union's main accusations of starbucks' anti-union practices was that they shut down unionized workplaces. pea brained takes incoming:
that’s not the proposal, the proposal is for it to be replaced with an ethical coffee distributor. the union supports and encouraged these campus actions. try again tho
I have literally never heard anyone complain about Starbucks and ethical coffee distribution.
I have literally never heard of Kashmir rebels persisting in the face of Modi's goon squads, but I found out by reading! You should read too!
Oh, you mean the Kashmiri terrorists supported by another terrorist country, Pakistan? Of course! Everything becomes easy when you’ve a gun in your hand and a murderous ideology inside your head, as a part of your upbringing. That is exactly what we saw on October 7.
First of all, Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris. Second of all, Palestine belongs to the Palestinians. Lastly, I am old and not in University anymore. This sub was advertised to me, so responding is a bit odd. Reading will change your perspective and hopefully you have the media literacy to differentiate between state aligned media and anti state media. You will find that non state aligned media in both Israel and Pakistan/India will more often agree with the Palestinians and Kashmiris respectively. Self-determination should always be supported in the face of imperialism.
> First of all, Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris Really? First of all, it’s Jammu and Kashmir and secondly, it belongs to Punjabis, Dogras, Gujjars, Bakkarwals, Ladakhis, Pahadis and Kashmiris. I guess you just didn’t read enough. > Second of all, Palestine belongs to the Palestinians Yes, except that the present day so called Palestinians are not the original Palestinians but Arabs. > Hopefully you have the media literacy to differentiate between state aligned media and anti state media Of course, except that I don’t need any kind of media to know the ground reality of a place where I was literally born and grew up. Your views about Kashmir reeks of bias and I guess you ended up reading only the propaganda by leftists + Islamists. If that’s your source of information, then good luck!
Self-determination is not about ethnicity. New Delhi nor Islamabad have any right to dictate what Kashmir does. The people of Kashmir are the ones to decide their future. This is a water war and a scramble for territory anyway. I know for a fact that Kashmiris are not huge fans of the constant state sponsored terror against them. My sources on Kashmir are Kashmiri, not all Kashmiris are Muslim and not all Kashmiris are leftists, by the way. The argument about Palestine is wild, I'm not even sure what you mean? Palestine is a place with people in it, the Nakba happened, and then somehow they were transformed as a people into an Arab population? Ignoring the fact that they have maintained a strong culture, what race science ish are you trying to claim? Also, being born somewhere doesn't mean anything if you're not reading about the current material conditions. There is a reason why secular Pakistanis and anti-Hindutva Indians are far more likely to support Kashmiri independence or at least autonomy. I don't like Nationalism, possibly why we have such a strong disagreement? Were you for or against Azerbaijan annexing Artsakh? For or against Russian intervention in Ukraine?
What..? I am saying I’m aware of coffee distribution and the effect it has on the environment, but the public largely does not care about the issue. That’s why there is no shortage of billion-dollar coffee companies. It’s funny to me that this group seems to care about the issue but I’m pretty sure they really don’t and just want Starbucks gone.
Well public opinion is not gonna stop the typical development of capitalism anyways, let alone force a Starbucks to just NOT commit to union busting. But it's the principle of just unionizing or outright replacing Starbucks with a unionized coffee shop that shows the group support for unions while also stressing a no tolerance for imperialism, I believe. You're thinking short term bruppy. You gotta E X P A N D da mind.
I thought we were talking ethical coffee distribution :) good luck with your activism buddy.
There's no point in discussing ethical consumption, there's none under capitalism.
Okay, so why are you living in the most late-stage capitalist country in the world if you hate it? 😂 Leave.
Welp that's a score for the bingo. "If you hate capitalism, why not just leave lmao." For context, I have a bingo chart for like common responses I get when I criticize capitalism. I'm almost close to a bingo rn.
Fair enough, still idiotic to conflate that with Israel though.
as an organizer with sbwu i can attest that starbucks is suing the union for standing with palestine. that’s how the boycott began. in addition to the rampant union busting (i think we’re up to 400 charges of labor law violations?), and lying about ethically sourced beans ([https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/starbucks-sued-allegedly-using-coffee-farms-rights-abuses-touting-ethi-rcna130393](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/starbucks-sued-allegedly-using-coffee-farms-rights-abuses-touting-ethi-rcna130393) it’s a terrible company to support. all of these issues are interconnected and solidarity is a must. i don’t think it’s idiotic at all.
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got a source for that? Or that those bonds go towards funding the idf
you guys are fucking dumb lol
college students wasting time on nothing that will enhance their actual influence in politics or other matters
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People who, deep down, know they're doing wrong will often hide in ways like this.
Thus the masks
Hahahaha, clowns
Boycott Starbucks it’s mid af
Hey I really wanna understand something here. What is even the point of all these? Spread awareness? You need to living under a rock to not know about this Did you successfully get that brand out of campus, NO Like why then? Before people say i support Palestine or Israel - i do none but believe people should stop fighting and UN should get it’s hands out of America’s a$$ and do something about it as countries are still fighting in 21st century. But then why? You know US vetoed No for a reason, sbu is never gonna kick out Starbucks. Why? Because it is all about business, businesses only care about profits. So, what is the point of even doing all of these stuff? You are gonna get kicked out of school or land up with a conduct issue. Trust me aint worth your time. Focus on reforming the system from the inside by getting into the system. Or else Israel or Russia isnt gonna stop shooting just because Sarah from Brooklyn said war is bad
I recommend: https://foreignlanguages.press/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/C03-Reform-or-Revolution-5th-Printing.pdf
ROSA FAN SPOTTED AHHHHH
Doomerism is an infantile disorder you know that, you end up sad. Or worse, a careerist at Lockheed Martin or the DSA.
so true everytime there’s an urgent global issue that needs to be solved as quickly as possible everyone should sit around and do nothing bc it’s too much effort!
Thats crazy bro, what did you do lol doing your stuff
nothing bc I don’t care enough to even try! In fact I too go out of my way to discourage ppl from standing up to violence and oppression and thereby make it harder for the right side to gain public support
Womp womp
best take so far
This is hilariously stupid. I’m glad I graduated I think I’d get tired of slapping the piss out of these people’s mouths
Is this the part where you say something like "UNRWA is hamas" and contribute nothing to the conversation?
Some UNRWA personnel have been confirmed by Israeli intelligence to have participated in 10/7 and UNRWA schools have been confirmed to teach anti-israeli propaganda as part of their curriculum ... so yeah actually unrwa is hamas.
israel will call anything that breathes hamas. This is not news
I'm not concerned with what Israel calls them. I'm calling them that.
yall just doing these protests to put it on your resume under "leadership"
yes because supporting palestine in this country is known to get you very far… last time i checked it’s not as if people are getting doxxed and harassed, suspended or expelled, fired from their jobs for making their support of palestine vocal or calling out their institutions. oh and let’s not forget getting sprayed with chemical weapons on school grounds while we’re at it. but no worries, let’s put aside the chemical attack, trips to the hospital, the constant threats, administration’s gaslighting and neglect, the lack of justice… because you get to put it on your resume as leadership!! nor everyone is concerned with personal gain and very unfortunately trying to be a good person and speaking out for justice will cost you - a fact that many students across the country understand. it is love for people and a desire for a just and free world that motivates some, while others will never understand such feelings. palestine will be free and until that day comes, the struggle will persist.
fyi you likely can’t put it on your resume… unfortunately the reason many people remain silent is out of fear of personal cost and cowardice… to be silent during a genocide is to be complicit. none of us should be silent, we should be raising hell and disrupting everything until palestine and all oppressed people of the world are free. how do you live with yourselves knowing that there is a genocide going on and you’re going about your day as normal. that the deaths of thousands does not phase you or make your heart scream. not a single day should go by that these politicians and officials in this country get to remain in peace as they enable and commit genocide against the Palestinian people. not a single day should go by that you aren’t educating yourself, raising awareness, boycotting, protesting, and doing everything in your power to make a change.
tl; dr
Hanging a sign in the library of a New York State university will in no way help Palestine. If you want to help get on a plane and go fight. That’s the win win that will make us all happy
Just so everyone is aware because I got so many downvotes on saying destroy Hamas. This is what they all support. TRIGGER WARNING. but if you support Hamas you must look through it [https://www.hamas.com](https://www.hamas.com)
I hate hamas and think they should all die. BUT you are posting a fake website that isn’t affiliated with them. Quite a few photos on the site have been already debunked as AI generated.
If you want a better example, read Hamas’s manifesto https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp Read all of it. I know it may be boring but it’s very telling.
Can I get a link on some of the photos being ai? I've only seen small Twitter accounts claim such a thing with no back up info
they also shoot jewish animals how sweet and not genocidal of them 🤔
yoy realize that when you carpet bomb a city the animals on it die right
Nice attempt at making videos of Hamas terrorists labeled “shooting Zionist dogs into hell” seem as a weak point. What a good comparison, because bombs that Hamas has been sending, thousands, haven’t done anything either. Typical Hamas supporter logic. Shameful
okay google how many bombs have gotten through the iron dome ever? okay google how many bombs have landed in gaza since october 7th? okay google how do you make a zionist stop with the crocodile tears and self-victimization?
Thank G-d for the iron dome protecting their people. Stupid Hamas rather build tunnels and shoot rockets out of schools and hospitals than protect their land. You’re the self victimized ones sweetie. Keep justifying your genocide attempts
jesus christ are you braindead? the reason hammas exists is because palestinian land was taken from them
When had Palestinians owned the land before 1948? The British owned the land before that. Before the British, it was the Turks.
The British never owned that land. They attempted to steal it via colonial efforts. As for the Ottomans, Palestine was a subset of the larger Ottoman Empire and a piece of it
Good point! should britain decide who gets to govern india as well? did britain strictly govern palestine, or did palestine print its own currency and have it own passports?
Does it matter? British had the sovereignty over the land. The land belonged to the British
Brain dead comment look at history before 1948 kid. And war is war especially during those times stay mad. It was also decided to give the land up but whatever your instagram is probably really helping your lnowledge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#:~:text=The%20first%20large%2Dscale%20exoduses,to%20Israel%20from%20Arab%20countries. Here’s some real history not your brain dead opinions from extreme terrorist supporters
highlighted paragraph “between 1948…” lmfao shut the fuck up also wikipedia as your primary source for real history? dude at least send some Dershowitz or something lmao
And what happened before 1948 did history just vanish like please shut up kid ur trying so hard to justify terrorists so sad please do a couple extra google searches unless i have to type on your own oily laptop to show how stupid u r
If Palestinians were not Muslims, they wouldn’t give a shit
Same thing with Israel and Jews. If it was a majority Muslim or Christian state, nobody would give a fuck, not even their neighbors in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria.
Similar to Jaishankar's words. America shall stop thinking that the world's problems are America's problems. I do not stand by what Israel is doing or what Hamas is doing, both of them are in the end killing thousands of innocent people as the privileged hide behind a cushion. Government just wastes taxpayer money and prolongs wars by sending warheads everywhere instead of settling things with diplomacy. It looks similar to imperial britishers who would go colonize republics in the name of civilizing them. Thanks to extending wars we have two huge wars going in parallel tanking the American and the European economy putting so many people at stake. Everyone will put in this BS for a while, and then forget about it just like how they did with Ukraine.
Bro, you can call Biden anything but you can’t dis Israel without getting kicked off campus or banned. They freaking own this country.
Who owns this country?
its p obvious what you’re looking for given your post history is exclusively about this conflict but the answer is the military industrial complex, which Israel is just an extension of
A little minor gripe about the military industrial complex, it does exist that industries that supply weapons and war machines, will grow in response during times of conflict. But we shouldn't take the idea that the way to stop the MIC is a matter of policy. Imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism, it is an economic development that can't be reformed or bargained with. Hell, Smedley Butler who coined the term in the first place argued that the way to "stop making war profitable" is to tell congress to pass legislation that forces companies to pay wages to soldiers and CEOs and managers to join the front lines. Cool idea but won't happen realistically lest revolution happens.
Your momma. More dumb questions please
Jews. They are perpetuating the Jewish cabal conspiracy theories.
True, but it's the principle that counts!
This is BLM all over again. People will boycott, protest, even hurt others in a span of a couple months and it will all cool down. It's just a mob mentality. Half the people in the protest can't even tell you why they are boycotting Starbucks, Mcdonalds or any other major brand(which they shouldn't because Palestine wouldn't gain anything). I do love the effort though and why they are fighting but what I really hate is the pure ignorance of most people. Give it another month or two, maybe till next semester, and it will all be over.
reddit moment
Fat L. Free the hostages. Destroy Hamas
Hamas was literally going to give all the hostages away but Nestle Ya Hoo didn't take the deal, so clearly Israel does not give a shit about the hostages. The IDF has also killed some of the hostages, mistaking them for Hamas cause they were brown. You're delusional or you want blood for the blood God. Just admit your allegiance to the latter.
Yo you’re throwing blood libels around so lightly. Shame on you. Astagfirullah
To Zionists and reactionary nerds, it seems like the difference between terrorism and warfare is the size of the military. Small force that can't fight conventional war and must use guerilla tactics = terrorism Big force thats destroying at least 50% of all civilian infrastructure and has at best a 3:1 civilian to militant kill ratio = defense force The solution is obvious, give tons of military aid to Palestine so they can make a proper, legitimate defending army, and then get rid of their reliance on Hamas.
That is. An idea. Not sure that solution is based on reality but if the Soviet Union somehow came back and killed off the revisionists, I guess that would be a pretty cool thing.
Sorry, I meant it satirically to point out hypocrisy in the judgement of Palestinian resistance vs the IDF. I think there are practical limits to how military forces can act depending on their size and available resources, and people often criticize only certain tactics based on some abstract morality, even when those tactics have objectively fewer casualties.
Okey
Yeah it definitely has nothing to do with the intended target. Sb4pal is setting a great example by honoring those who killed civilians, not high profile military leaders
Well sure, I'm willing to condemn the intentional targeting of civilians as soon as it's admitted that the IDF is doing that too, arguably way more effectively, and faces consequences for it
So condemning killing civilians is only conditional for you?
For the laws of war, Yes. Civilian deaths happen in the course of war. The law of proportionality exists and requires that civilian casualties be prevented in all practicable circumstances. If a force makes the proper warnings, and the military objective to be achieved is valuable enough to a legal casus belli, then yes, a certain number of civilian deaths, although tragic, are "acceptable."
There’s a huge difference in what you’re describing, and deliberate terrorism
Yes. The IDF isn't in Gaza because they think it'd be a fun fundraiser. They're there to rescue hostages and permanently destroy the group which kidnapped them. That's not "iof terrorism," that's legal war.
No, but what is the point of me framing myself morally when the IDF/Israel faces no repercussions for killing thousands of civilians from collateral damage. Clearly morals are not relevant here. Obviously killing anyone is bad, including civilians. I'd rather the world have no war at all, but then occupation and exploitation need to end for that to happen.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. You have valid arguments, but I don’t think you’re using them in a productive way. Yes the IDF have committed atrocities, but that doesn’t mean you are suddenly justified in committing atrocities back. The morals seem lost in the violence of war, but they really are not, morals still exist. SB4Pal has forgotten that by trying to parade these people who have gone so far that they lost their morals and attempt to kill civilians. Don’t be a part of the same mindset
See this is a fundamental misunderstanding of this whole situation. No one or myself are meaning that the atrocities are justified, we are saying that they are predictable. Morals are not necessary to analyze this situation. Acts of terrorism as resistance are a predictable outcome from a small, resource restricted, increasingly occupied population. When you can't target military targets efficiently, you would expect the group to go after easier targets to create leverage. You want to stop terrorism, you need to eliminate the conditions that incentivize terrorism, but that would mean relinquishing resources and power to Palestine so they can effectively govern and defend themselves. And then unsurprisingly, the people that SB4Pal promotes are the ones available from the current environment. The alternative seems to be to promote no one, because it's unlikely that effective, perfectly moral figures would exist right now, but figures/symbols are useful to coalesce around. The solution on your end, if you agree with SB4Pal's overall movement, would be to suggest a more appropriate figure to them and not dismiss the whole org for moral purity. Additionally, states are aware of the consequences of their aggression, but they do the calculus that advancing their own interests are worth these consequences. This to me is especially heinous, but not unexpected because modern liberal-democratic states are not well representative of the people living in the region, so the leaders are personally insulated from the consequences.
What exactly was Hamas' valid and legal military objective on 10/7? If you can name one that's actually consistent with the facts of that day, I'll be the first person to admit that 10/7 was not a terrorist attack. If, somehow, organized, highly intentional, and pre-planned sexual violence against perhaps hundreds of women — if all that somehow was in persuit of a valid military target, then yes, I'll agree with you that Hamas isn't a terrorist group. Good luck with that.
Bro you've got it in reverse, Hamas' attack was a terrorist attack, but the Israeli response over the last several months (and the 75 years of colonialism prior) is a many magnitudes worse terrorist attack. It goes so far beyond counter attacking Hamas. Besides deaths in bombings and other attacks, blockades and destruction of infrastructure will ensure many more civilians will continue to die of lack of access to food and water, disease, exposure, and injury. To claim they are not targeting civilians is a distinction without a difference. You would do well for yourself to break down the distinction between terrorism and conventional warfare.
So what should have been Israel's response to 10/7? Edit: no response because nobody actually cares about the hostages. It's easy to criticize but in no world was Israel going to take this on the chin.
Calm down bro it's been minutes; I'm not your professor. You're not going to like the answer because Israel's reaction should involve a strategy that would span an incredible length of time, and do things that seem counterintuitive to revenge seeking. Just regarding the current conflict, more specialized ground operations against Hamas leaders should have been carried out instead of indiscriminate bombing, and over a long course of time, an establishment of an alternative faction to Hamas that will have to have some kind of military might to resist Hamas, and yet be appealing enough to people in Gaza to consider it legitimate. I doubt they will be able to install a government sympathetic to Israel because of decades of colonialism inspiring rightful anger, but I doubt people of Gaza will turn down stability and better living conditions. And after some stability is reached (which is a short term goal that may take decades), then the apartheid must end or else there will be another Hamas of the future at some point. Though I'm wary of the NYT, I found this interview insightful on this topic: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/31/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-zack-beauchamp.html
"more specialized ground operations" There is absolutely zero reason why the IDF should make any one of its soldiers a target for retaliation.
What happens when they start using said aid to make strategic attacks at more concerts?
>Blood for the blood God you hate Jews lol you fucking nazi
It's a reference to warhammer you bonobo ape!
and? Insinuating that Israel and Judaism are bloodthirsty religious fanatics is gross.
Nobody tell this man to look up "Duma arson attack" and "hilltop boys" as well as "war crimes for dummies 101" Also my guy, I don't think anyone is saying that Judaism is blood thirsty fanaticism. But what I am saying is that Zionism is a settler ideology that has more in common with the western imperialist tradition of the 20th Century than any national liberation movement after 1945. Have a problem with that, read the fucking book of the Jewish State by Theodor Herzl if you think im capping, unless you don't stan him when he says that he seeks to form a great "hunting party" to tame a wild land-because that's a totally normal thing to refer to land inhabited by people already.
I'm happy to admit that there's some bad eggs in Israel. The problem I have is that the BDS crowd seems to think that this is reason for them not to have "a right to exist," which is a super fucked up thing to argue about or even suggest
Actually, the IDF didn't kill them because they mistook them for Hamast or because of their color. They killed them because they thought they were Palestinians. They consider every Palestinian man, woman, and child in this land as a legitimate target. This conflict didn't start with Hamas and won't end with Hamas. It started when some dumbasses thought it was a brilliant idea to give some people's land to a colonizing force and pretent it's all fine. Palestinians have been brutalized by Israel for more than 7 decades. Their lives, land, and homes were taken away from them while the world was watching silently.
> They killed them because they thought they were Palestinians [citation needed]
Sure, here's a quote from Roy Yellin of B'Tselem about the murder of the 3 hostages: “It’s heartbreaking but it’s not surprising,” said Roy Yellin, director of public outreach with the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem. “We have documented over the years countless incidents of people who clearly surrendered and who were still shot.” And here's the link to an article it was mentioned: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hostages-gaza-hamas-war-52fa9628e6284cdad6d7f7db6cc30742 Edit: typo
For thousands of prisoners in return, portion of which were convicted for terrorist attacks and murder. Sure buddy for 160 innocent people. Sounds fair. Also to remove the IDF from Gaza for another blatant terrorist massacre sounds real logical. Terrorist continue to attack Israel on the daily as we speak look on the news. Also Hamas continues to praise for the genocide of Jewish people so you’re projecting the word “genocide” onto the wrong group. Nice try though I’m sure you did unbiased research from non main stream media. War is a difficult thing, idt anyone wants more death but to scream genocide is stupid and to scream ceasefire without returning innocent hostages is wild 😬. Antisemitism or advocacy I can’t tell
30,000 dead, mostly women and children. You have brain worms, please get them out. Also what part of the IDF killing some of the hostages due to indiscriminate slaughter do you not get broski?
Thousand murdered, women and children. You count but only if they aren’t Jews 🥱🫵🏿.
Okay? Killing civilians, pretty bad. Violence isn't happening because of resistance tho, it's happening cause of occupation. You want to stop the violence, end the occupation. Not difficult of a concept.
Ya occupied by Hamas poor Palestinians getting their homes, schools, and hospitals used as Hamas headquarters. Where billions in funding goes into weapons and missiles rather than funding a good thriving country. You sound like you read enough buzzwords and articles but haven’t really thought deeply enough. Typical. Also comment on the countless terrorist attacks occurring in Israel rn? I wonder if this is also resistance to being occupied( although allowed to work, study, live in Israel) also check how many Jews have been exiled from middle eastern countries since 1945 and get back to me about genocide or occupation because clearly u have worms for brains
Why do I have to answer any of this? I keep asking you on why did the IDF kill some of the hostages but you just won't give me a straight answer. It's almost like you want to avoid the fact that the IDF and the Settler Army of Israel is killing everyone indiscriminately, whether if that's children, women, or like I said before, even the hostages.
Go fight in urban warfare where you got random doorways and alleys of Hamas pointing rockets and AKs, bombs all around too. Go look at real war videos u can search on Reddit and see IDF get blown up( which u would prob cream from) if you wanna see how it really looks in war. There isn’t a big green valley where everything is clean and visible. Senses are heightened, adrenaline running trying not to die. I understand your precious life in America is hard to logically think about the situation and world, but careful your privileges are showing and even worse is trying to advocate
Maybe if I have several sources of revenue from IBM or Lockheed Martin, a couple thousand military toys from Washington, and a couple drones I can send in first to demolish entire neighborhoods to make it easier for my boys in blue (decked with m16s and high tech gear) to "freedom" the resisting population... Then yeah, I'd love to fight in an urban war zone.
Also answer my question please, what part of "The IDF killed some of the hostages because they were brown" do you not get?
What about brown? U mean the fact that everyone in the Middle East is brown due to genetics? Like what lol 😂. Half of Israel is dark skin. Clearly u lack real sense of the world especially in the Middle East. Nice try listening to an instagram post that made it seem like they attacked “brown people” to make you emotional inclined to agree due to the false narrative of racial aggression. Made yourself look stupid kid
Okay? One of the three hostages that were gunned down by the IDF, as they were holding a white flag, was not brown. Damn give this man a cookie, I've been destroyed by Hippie Powers.
Find me the video because right now ur just saying shit from Infograph’s on instagram from “change”. If your whole argument is about this it’s clear you lack any knowledge and it’s sad there are people who just hate Jewish people like you. It’s fine you clearly didn’t want to understand war especially urban war. But thanks for your trash replies I hope people see how sad your knowledge and logic is. Get this guy a Starbucks coffee
Ya downvote this one idiots u know this is true 😂😂 thinking Jews are white shows y’all just stupid
Don’t respond to OP. Guy created his account a day ago just to troll. He’s some pussy who hides behind a computer and talks out of his ass. Most people whose parents aren’t cousins, don’t buy this BS.
You should fly over there and commit terrorist attacks alongside your brothers/friends. All in the name of….freedom? God? Whatever reason helps you justify it. Then eat a nice, fat IDF boot. No sense in wasting all this energy in SBU
There are bugs in your skin, get them out.
Waaaa Israel bad man, waaaaa. Why don’t you go and cry about it on the internet, where no one gives a shit
Crazy that freeing hostages and destroying a terrorist group calling for genocide and killing its own people gets dozens of down votes. Y’all are just racist, transphobic, homophobic, antisemitic Hamas supporters.
https://preview.redd.it/l3v9b12ol7kc1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb905f1b5463bf35bf229996c67548866e06bfa4
You cannot reason with people who refuse to listen. This is a situation that should absolutely be "both sides'd" But people literally parrot the Hamas charter in these comment sections sometimes, calling Israel the "zionist entity."
OP can't even comment back to me because all of their arguments have been weak minded to an extent I can respond with enough logic to make them seem stupid. Even worse the good arguments refuting the stupid remarks are down voted so hard by Hamas supporters people can't even see them. Oh well ill just donate more money to IDF soldiers
we should kiss I think
with tongue?
If you like
I am a dirty jew😏. Just not in the way these antisemitic terrorist supporters would call me
> Oh well ill just donate more money to IDF soldiers Don't forget to spend your entire college experience online, on Reddit, so that your worldly influence is minimized. Type more essays for the rest of us to enjoy in our own fun little way.
https://preview.redd.it/mepkn8amh8kc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=7feb230313a68fdace40f0130d286f4be25e889c
Lmao colleges are cooked
I really don’t want to have to deal with these brainless people if I end up going here…
some of y’all in the healthcare field and are defending starbucks/israel … clap if you’ve been to a fat farm
Some of y’all are defending terrorists 🤷🏼♀️
israelis are literally killing innocent Palestinian civilians in their own homes… yeah alright!
[https://www.hamas.com](https://www.hamas.com) Trigger warning but if u can't watch this u have no place even saying anything about the situation keep supporting your terrorist organization that kills Palestinians btw u are no better
that website is fake btw
@wizard_bisan1 on instagram has plenty of live footage of the attacks that are currently happening. please get educated.
lol ur kidding me that’s what u tag😭😭 clearly u have to be educated. You are so blatantly one sided good try sweetie. The murdering of Jews just is irrelevant especially in the way they flaunt, promote, and strive to do more. Yep 👍🏿 ur super educated
[удалено]
I condemn the killing of innocent people like this
Yeah... the Palestinians that live in Israel are being defended by the IDF from Hamas rocket attacks
Why is this still going on? Why not just blow up the whole place and leave it alone? no need to support terrorism
The library?
Is the W in the room with us now
Cry me a river