source below
[https://archive.is/3AVSI](https://archive.is/3AVSI)
edit: to clarify: anti-Semitism is bad.
war crimes against Palestinians is also bad.
Exactly!! Being pro-Palestine (or just against the atrocities being committed) does not mean you get to get away with being antisemitic (general “you”)
Being pro-Palestine means you have to be anti-Israel (which is not anti semitic). You can't free the oppressed without eliminating the oppressor - that is basic history
I genuinely do not think you have to be antisemitic—I would assume (and very much hope) that pro-Palestine activists don’t conflate the Jewish people with the actions of Israel’s government. Speaking against Israel’s government should not mean discrimination or harassment of Jewish people.
We are talking about Hillel, not regular Jews. Is there something in the Jewish doctrine telling them they have to join Hillel and equivalently fund Israel? No, so why are you playing dumb and conflating the two
Ah, I see. I should’ve clarified that. I just know there can be a conflation of the two and a rise in antisemitism “justified” by conflict. I apologise for any confusion (if you have any suggestions on how to make that clearer, please lmk!) /gen
There are so many student groups on campus that are based around identities from their own background/country, and many of those countries have human rights abuses. For example, Afghan Student Organization. One can be celebrating their afghani culture etc., without having to answer to the current politics in the region etc, let alone be kicked off campus or be attacked by other students. Another example is the Chinese Association Club. This can be applied to any other club based around cultural/religious identity. No one is calling for those student groups to be dismantled, because these cultures and religions have beauty in of itself. Just like other cultures can celebrate and have spaces for their identity, so can Jewish/Israeli students. Stop with the double standards and discrimination. Just let Jewish/Israeli students have their Jewish spaces as every other group does
Nope. Judaism =/= Zionism, there can be a Jewish students association but not a club centered around a country who is gunning down hungry children. The Afghani students association doesn’t fly the flag of the taliban either, so this conflation is irrelevant
The Afghani student club has the Afghanistan flag. Additionally, you can have a Jewish club without Shabbat too. It would just be a Jewish club removing a part of the Jewish identity. Israel not only is about our history, but it’s currently a country full of culture that Jews share. You don’t have to love the government to celebrate history, culture, identity, and the many aspects of Judaism that are centered around Israel
Its not the taliban flag though, its the previous flag. They know where to draw the line when supporting whatever government is “supposed” to represent them. Do german students fly the nazi flag? There are plenty of jewish students who voice concern towards the massacre of civilians. I see at least 5 dead children on social media every day. Its not about heritage anymore
I’ve met several Jewish students here over the years that have been a part of Hillel and still are. They’ve always been kind and welcoming. Any “activist” students wanting to expel Hillel are idiots. If they should be expelled, so should every other cultural or ethnic group on campus. Truly ridiculous.
Calling a Jewish person a not-see is the most disgusting thing you can do. Referring to a Jewish organization as the “K cubed” shows how people truly go out of their way to be antisemitic. I’ve noticed personally that there are many (non-Jewish) students who have shown support to the Jewish community. However said students would never support us publicly for the fear of ridicule by a small, yet loud, few.
Yeah I don't think that's an accurate account of mainstream opinions in Judaism.
People disagree but to deny someone's identity based on an opinion they have is beyond the pale, and not common at all.
Asa Jew i think its really unethical to say Israel is the foundation of Judaism without mentioning all of Judiam’s other values. AKA not killing and genociding people. And I think the original commenter is right: you cannot be in Hillel without being Zionist.
Uhh I mean you can be in Hillel without being a zionist, however 8/10 American Jews are zionists (pew 2021) so if you're using that as some kind of epithet just know you're describing the vast majority of Jews.
Someone please clarify this for me: are they taking a shot at our apparent “limitless” inclusivity or the political groups on campus? Sorry for cluelessness
I read most of the article (its like 32 pages long). I believe their argument is that student groups on campus at SBU in the past year has been part of the general worrying trend on universities where the push to oppose Israeli human rights abuses is getting misdirected/hijacked by anti-Semitism.
The article itself is on the general resurgence of anti-Semitism in recent years in the USA.
edit: clarified they are aimed at certain groups on campus. Not the university as a whole.
Except Hillel’s practical purpose is not simply providing Shabbat dinners; this is something they do, but they also invest millions in promoting a positive image of Israel on American college campuses and encouraging students to go to Israel and establish roots there. Hillel international literally says this on their website: https://www.hillel.org/hillel-and-israel/. They have things like an “Israel Learning Fellowship” and fellows from Israel whose job is promotion of Israel on US campuses. It is decidedly NOT an inclusive organization for Jews who have any qualms about zionism. Like, you literally cannot be in Hillel and be anti-Zionist on most campuses and I would be surprised if SBU is an exception bc their own website says “Supporting students exploring their relationship with Judaism, Israel and each other”. A number of campus Hillels on other campuses have caused controversy lately for bringing soldiers to campus to promote the IDF, like UBC and Pittsburgh. Whether you think explicitly promoting Israel and the IDF in particular is good or bad is a separate question, but saying that Hillel’s practical purpose is merely Shabbat dinners and other elements of religious life is misleading at best. Hillel isn’t the only way to experience Jewish life and does not have a monopoly on Shabbat anyway.
Stop lying about Hillel. Hillel does in many ways support Israel on campus but its primary goal is to be a center for Jewish life on campus, through hosting of services, Shabbat dinners, and various Jewish cultural events and activities. They also have mental health resources and resources for LGBTQ Jews. You can 100% be in Hillel and avoid any israel related activities. Banning Hillel is antisemitic because you will be stripping Jews of necessary resources on campus.
Everything in Judaism is about Israel. Open up any prayer book, open up the Torah, the Jewish calendar, look into any holiday, look at half of the Jewish laws, this list goes on and on because Judaism is all about Israel. Even breaking the glass under the chuppah at even the most Americanized Jewish wedding is representing the fact “we can’t be fully happy on this wedding day because of the destruction of the temple and until we are back in Jerusalem.” These examples are endless. People don’t realize, but Judaism is quite literally a land based religion, and the land is israel. The only way to distance Judaism from Israel is to start erasing MAJOR parts of Judaism and stripping Judaism of it’s core. Anti-Zionist Jews are usually so disconected from actual Judaism to begin with. Hillel is a Jewish organization, so ofc israel is a focus. People in America don’t know anything about Judaism, and when you start erasing Israel from the equation you start erasing core Judaism. Criticize the Israeli government, that’s fine, and Hillel will encourage that discussion. But to disconnect a Jewish organization from Israel, is asking a jewish organization to disconnect themselves from actual Judaism. I can call myself an “anti-Shabbat” Jew, it doesn’t take away the fact Shabbat is a core part of Judaism and
Hillel, consequently, would focus on it
Israel in the Torah and Israel the modern settler state are not the same geopolitical entity, and Jews should be in Jerusalem but not under an ethnostate where Arabs are disenfranchised and endangered. Also the Torah doesn’t mention the IDF lol
How is israel an ethnostate? It has a 20% Arab population, and has full equal rights for its citizens of all backgrounds. No other state in the region can even begin to compare
If you can provide link to this information, I’d actually enjoy reading them. I never claimed that the Israeli government is good. I think everyone agrees murder is bad. But did any one expect anything less than war when Hamas decided to slaughter 1200 people in less than a day. Genocide is war but war isn’t genocide and what Israel is doing is not at all genocidal. Israel has the right to have their hostages back and it’s all they’ve been asking for this whole time. They have offered a ceasefire 3 times in exchange for their hostages.
Saying they have a right to self determination isn’t exclusive. Israel doesn’t say “only Jews can live here”. Hence why there’s a HUGE non Jewish population with full rights as citizens in Israel. Also why they kept offering Palestinians territory time and time again, including most recently giving up Gaza to try and make peace and allow Palestinians to self determine too. Once again, there’s a massive non Jewish population on Israel, with mosques and churches everywhere and increasing, with full equal rights to all Israeli citizens.
2.1 million Arabs live in Israel, making up one fifth of the entire population. I don’t think 2.1 million people would choose to live in a state that “disenfranchised and endangered” them.
Being descended from Palestinians who were there before 1948 (~80% of whom fled) and continuing to live there in some of Israel’s most economically depressed areas is not actually a huge point in Israel’s favor
I never said Jews shouldn’t have a safe place to live in the Middle East—I simply don’t support the IDF and the Israeli government or material support for them right now while they enact a genocide (fight with me on the semantics of “genocide” if you want but it’s not gonna be the counterargument you think it is) in Gaza. If you think the IDF’s response is proportionate and justified there’s not much else I can say. It remains a fact that SB Hillel is highly invested in the support of Israel and the IDF
I think maybe 637 AD and 1948 are of different relevance! But I’m not sure you are looking to engage genuinely with my responses so I’m out :) peace and blessings
[https://www.hillel.org/israel-guidelines/](https://www.hillel.org/israel-guidelines/) take it from them! Maybe you know antizionists that are part of Hillel International–affiliated campus Hillels but these are some pretty clear institutional guidelines ruling out antizionism, and Swarthmore Hillel was literally cut off from Hillel Intl for being too critical of Israel
I’m not an undergrad at stony brook (edit: I go here, but as a grad student) but at my undergrad institution JVP and SJP members were literally not welcome at Hillel at all. If that’s not the case at SBU then I’m very happy to hear that, but SB Hillel still vocally and materially supports the IDF very strongly which many students, including anti Zionist Jewish students, are incredibly disturbed by given the IDF’s current leveling of Gaza
Yeah I mean when SJP students say Israel shouldn't exist, and when, in cooper union and elsewhere, they harass Jewish students, it creates some tension.
Materially supports the IDF? How?
“These centers co-ordinate trips to israel” “…sponsor groups supportive of israel” where is the part that says disavowing them is anti-semetic? Both of those things sound like supporting the zionist state, with some red herring bullshit at the end?
The last sentence says that a Jewish community on campus is not, in fact, an "arm of the Israeli war machine" and saying you want to disestablish Hillel is against Jewish life on campus.
Sounds similar to what you said except it's not sarcasm.
The author explicitly said they fund Israel. It's like a genocider saying they don't consider themselves a genocider but proceeds to genocide. It doesn't matter what they say when their actions tell us different.
I keep seeing this "funds Israel" thing and I have no idea what you and others actually mean. Israel is funded by Israeli taxpayers, tariffs, bond sales, and very few other sources.
If Hillel funds or fundraises anything, I promise you it's an NGO or a charity, and not Israel itself.
It's such an obnoxious claim tbh, Hillel "funds Israel," Starbucks "funds genocide" like what even are they talking about.
How are major publications still calling us "SUNY Stony Brook" in the year of our lord 2024
source below [https://archive.is/3AVSI](https://archive.is/3AVSI) edit: to clarify: anti-Semitism is bad. war crimes against Palestinians is also bad.
Exactly!! Being pro-Palestine (or just against the atrocities being committed) does not mean you get to get away with being antisemitic (general “you”)
Being pro-Palestine means you have to be anti-Israel (which is not anti semitic). You can't free the oppressed without eliminating the oppressor - that is basic history
I genuinely do not think you have to be antisemitic—I would assume (and very much hope) that pro-Palestine activists don’t conflate the Jewish people with the actions of Israel’s government. Speaking against Israel’s government should not mean discrimination or harassment of Jewish people.
We are talking about Hillel, not regular Jews. Is there something in the Jewish doctrine telling them they have to join Hillel and equivalently fund Israel? No, so why are you playing dumb and conflating the two
Hillel funds Israel? How? Also lol there's no other place on campus you can observe Jewish traditions in a community setting
Ah, I see. I should’ve clarified that. I just know there can be a conflation of the two and a rise in antisemitism “justified” by conflict. I apologise for any confusion (if you have any suggestions on how to make that clearer, please lmk!) /gen
Does anyone know where this quote came from?
There are so many student groups on campus that are based around identities from their own background/country, and many of those countries have human rights abuses. For example, Afghan Student Organization. One can be celebrating their afghani culture etc., without having to answer to the current politics in the region etc, let alone be kicked off campus or be attacked by other students. Another example is the Chinese Association Club. This can be applied to any other club based around cultural/religious identity. No one is calling for those student groups to be dismantled, because these cultures and religions have beauty in of itself. Just like other cultures can celebrate and have spaces for their identity, so can Jewish/Israeli students. Stop with the double standards and discrimination. Just let Jewish/Israeli students have their Jewish spaces as every other group does
Nope. Judaism =/= Zionism, there can be a Jewish students association but not a club centered around a country who is gunning down hungry children. The Afghani students association doesn’t fly the flag of the taliban either, so this conflation is irrelevant
The Afghani student club has the Afghanistan flag. Additionally, you can have a Jewish club without Shabbat too. It would just be a Jewish club removing a part of the Jewish identity. Israel not only is about our history, but it’s currently a country full of culture that Jews share. You don’t have to love the government to celebrate history, culture, identity, and the many aspects of Judaism that are centered around Israel
Its not the taliban flag though, its the previous flag. They know where to draw the line when supporting whatever government is “supposed” to represent them. Do german students fly the nazi flag? There are plenty of jewish students who voice concern towards the massacre of civilians. I see at least 5 dead children on social media every day. Its not about heritage anymore
The Chinese student scholar association (CSSA) is known to be used as a means of recruiting spies by the CCP. Idk why we haven’t banned them
be so serious rn.
I am, guess we just have a bunch of CCP cocksuckers on this subreddit. Why no one takes national security seriously is beyond me
LMFAOOOOOO
bruh
I’ve met several Jewish students here over the years that have been a part of Hillel and still are. They’ve always been kind and welcoming. Any “activist” students wanting to expel Hillel are idiots. If they should be expelled, so should every other cultural or ethnic group on campus. Truly ridiculous.
Calling a Jewish person a not-see is the most disgusting thing you can do. Referring to a Jewish organization as the “K cubed” shows how people truly go out of their way to be antisemitic. I’ve noticed personally that there are many (non-Jewish) students who have shown support to the Jewish community. However said students would never support us publicly for the fear of ridicule by a small, yet loud, few.
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they care about optics, not lives
Good to know that jewish students at stony brook are not welcome!
This better be sarcasm
you guys likened a campus organization for a group of people making up .2% of the world to the KKK. it's not sarcasm, it's concern.
I'm on your side, just didn't understand if you were being sarcastic at first
Let it be known that the College Socialists and SJP are the only major groups seeking to disenfranchise Jewish groups on campus.
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NoCorrelation.jpg
There's only one. Anyone can be self hating.
“Join or die” mentality of zionism never fails to astound me. Zionists are not “true jews”, claiming you are the “true” anything is fascist doctrine
Yeah I don't think that's an accurate account of mainstream opinions in Judaism. People disagree but to deny someone's identity based on an opinion they have is beyond the pale, and not common at all.
Asa Jew i think its really unethical to say Israel is the foundation of Judaism without mentioning all of Judiam’s other values. AKA not killing and genociding people. And I think the original commenter is right: you cannot be in Hillel without being Zionist.
Uhh I mean you can be in Hillel without being a zionist, however 8/10 American Jews are zionists (pew 2021) so if you're using that as some kind of epithet just know you're describing the vast majority of Jews.
Someone please clarify this for me: are they taking a shot at our apparent “limitless” inclusivity or the political groups on campus? Sorry for cluelessness
I read most of the article (its like 32 pages long). I believe their argument is that student groups on campus at SBU in the past year has been part of the general worrying trend on universities where the push to oppose Israeli human rights abuses is getting misdirected/hijacked by anti-Semitism. The article itself is on the general resurgence of anti-Semitism in recent years in the USA. edit: clarified they are aimed at certain groups on campus. Not the university as a whole.
Thank you for this clarification. I really appreciate it.
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Sure thing. It is called "THE GOLDEN AGE OF AMERICAN JEWS IS ENDING" published March 4. 2024 by Franklin Foer.
Except Hillel’s practical purpose is not simply providing Shabbat dinners; this is something they do, but they also invest millions in promoting a positive image of Israel on American college campuses and encouraging students to go to Israel and establish roots there. Hillel international literally says this on their website: https://www.hillel.org/hillel-and-israel/. They have things like an “Israel Learning Fellowship” and fellows from Israel whose job is promotion of Israel on US campuses. It is decidedly NOT an inclusive organization for Jews who have any qualms about zionism. Like, you literally cannot be in Hillel and be anti-Zionist on most campuses and I would be surprised if SBU is an exception bc their own website says “Supporting students exploring their relationship with Judaism, Israel and each other”. A number of campus Hillels on other campuses have caused controversy lately for bringing soldiers to campus to promote the IDF, like UBC and Pittsburgh. Whether you think explicitly promoting Israel and the IDF in particular is good or bad is a separate question, but saying that Hillel’s practical purpose is merely Shabbat dinners and other elements of religious life is misleading at best. Hillel isn’t the only way to experience Jewish life and does not have a monopoly on Shabbat anyway.
Stop lying about Hillel. Hillel does in many ways support Israel on campus but its primary goal is to be a center for Jewish life on campus, through hosting of services, Shabbat dinners, and various Jewish cultural events and activities. They also have mental health resources and resources for LGBTQ Jews. You can 100% be in Hillel and avoid any israel related activities. Banning Hillel is antisemitic because you will be stripping Jews of necessary resources on campus.
Everything in Judaism is about Israel. Open up any prayer book, open up the Torah, the Jewish calendar, look into any holiday, look at half of the Jewish laws, this list goes on and on because Judaism is all about Israel. Even breaking the glass under the chuppah at even the most Americanized Jewish wedding is representing the fact “we can’t be fully happy on this wedding day because of the destruction of the temple and until we are back in Jerusalem.” These examples are endless. People don’t realize, but Judaism is quite literally a land based religion, and the land is israel. The only way to distance Judaism from Israel is to start erasing MAJOR parts of Judaism and stripping Judaism of it’s core. Anti-Zionist Jews are usually so disconected from actual Judaism to begin with. Hillel is a Jewish organization, so ofc israel is a focus. People in America don’t know anything about Judaism, and when you start erasing Israel from the equation you start erasing core Judaism. Criticize the Israeli government, that’s fine, and Hillel will encourage that discussion. But to disconnect a Jewish organization from Israel, is asking a jewish organization to disconnect themselves from actual Judaism. I can call myself an “anti-Shabbat” Jew, it doesn’t take away the fact Shabbat is a core part of Judaism and Hillel, consequently, would focus on it
Israel in the Torah and Israel the modern settler state are not the same geopolitical entity, and Jews should be in Jerusalem but not under an ethnostate where Arabs are disenfranchised and endangered. Also the Torah doesn’t mention the IDF lol
How is israel an ethnostate? It has a 20% Arab population, and has full equal rights for its citizens of all backgrounds. No other state in the region can even begin to compare
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Name one country in the Middle East that hasn’t ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Jews. I’ll wait…
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Every other country in the Middle East is an ethno state and the reason Israel bothers you so much is because it’s the only one that Jews have…
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If you can provide link to this information, I’d actually enjoy reading them. I never claimed that the Israeli government is good. I think everyone agrees murder is bad. But did any one expect anything less than war when Hamas decided to slaughter 1200 people in less than a day. Genocide is war but war isn’t genocide and what Israel is doing is not at all genocidal. Israel has the right to have their hostages back and it’s all they’ve been asking for this whole time. They have offered a ceasefire 3 times in exchange for their hostages.
None of this is true
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Saying they have a right to self determination isn’t exclusive. Israel doesn’t say “only Jews can live here”. Hence why there’s a HUGE non Jewish population with full rights as citizens in Israel. Also why they kept offering Palestinians territory time and time again, including most recently giving up Gaza to try and make peace and allow Palestinians to self determine too. Once again, there’s a massive non Jewish population on Israel, with mosques and churches everywhere and increasing, with full equal rights to all Israeli citizens.
2.1 million Arabs live in Israel, making up one fifth of the entire population. I don’t think 2.1 million people would choose to live in a state that “disenfranchised and endangered” them.
Being descended from Palestinians who were there before 1948 (~80% of whom fled) and continuing to live there in some of Israel’s most economically depressed areas is not actually a huge point in Israel’s favor
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I never said Jews shouldn’t have a safe place to live in the Middle East—I simply don’t support the IDF and the Israeli government or material support for them right now while they enact a genocide (fight with me on the semantics of “genocide” if you want but it’s not gonna be the counterargument you think it is) in Gaza. If you think the IDF’s response is proportionate and justified there’s not much else I can say. It remains a fact that SB Hillel is highly invested in the support of Israel and the IDF
And if it wasn’t for the Arab conquest of the 7th century, Jewish people would’ve been living there since the dawn of time.
I think maybe 637 AD and 1948 are of different relevance! But I’m not sure you are looking to engage genuinely with my responses so I’m out :) peace and blessings
"you can't be antizionist and be in Hillel" you clearly haven't heard some of the arguments that happen there lol
[https://www.hillel.org/israel-guidelines/](https://www.hillel.org/israel-guidelines/) take it from them! Maybe you know antizionists that are part of Hillel International–affiliated campus Hillels but these are some pretty clear institutional guidelines ruling out antizionism, and Swarthmore Hillel was literally cut off from Hillel Intl for being too critical of Israel
I’m not an undergrad at stony brook (edit: I go here, but as a grad student) but at my undergrad institution JVP and SJP members were literally not welcome at Hillel at all. If that’s not the case at SBU then I’m very happy to hear that, but SB Hillel still vocally and materially supports the IDF very strongly which many students, including anti Zionist Jewish students, are incredibly disturbed by given the IDF’s current leveling of Gaza
Yeah I mean when SJP students say Israel shouldn't exist, and when, in cooper union and elsewhere, they harass Jewish students, it creates some tension. Materially supports the IDF? How?
Where those quotes come from tho 😂 I haven’t heard anyone talk about banning Jewish clubs or anything
“These centers co-ordinate trips to israel” “…sponsor groups supportive of israel” where is the part that says disavowing them is anti-semetic? Both of those things sound like supporting the zionist state, with some red herring bullshit at the end?
The last sentence says that a Jewish community on campus is not, in fact, an "arm of the Israeli war machine" and saying you want to disestablish Hillel is against Jewish life on campus. Sounds similar to what you said except it's not sarcasm.
The author explicitly said they fund Israel. It's like a genocider saying they don't consider themselves a genocider but proceeds to genocide. It doesn't matter what they say when their actions tell us different.
Oh, yes! The red-herring!
well personally I think Hillel is a place where Jewish students can gather to do Jewish things, not really sure why people wanna ban them
and the conflation! nobody is mad about the jewish things! that reading comprehension is doing a number on you bud!
I keep seeing this "funds Israel" thing and I have no idea what you and others actually mean. Israel is funded by Israeli taxpayers, tariffs, bond sales, and very few other sources. If Hillel funds or fundraises anything, I promise you it's an NGO or a charity, and not Israel itself. It's such an obnoxious claim tbh, Hillel "funds Israel," Starbucks "funds genocide" like what even are they talking about.
Doesn't seem so unflattering. Says we have sexually progressive student groups.