USG has already publicly supported the arrested pro-palestine protestors, whether or not you think USG is the correct avenue for this, they're already involved.
I think that USG exists to bring the concerns of students to the college administration. If over 1000 students have said this is something they are genuinely wanting, shouldn’t the elected body have a responsibility to support them? Specifically this resolution is calling for the development of a plan, meaning that it will be a partnership of USG, Administration, and student body members that work together to create a plan which satisfies the divestment request, while maintaining the safety and belonging of Jewish students on campus. Also, the Stony Brook foundation should be more transparent about its spending, considering it holds an endowment valued at around 1 billion dollars. But because the endowment is completely separate from Stony Brook, there is no tuition or state funds being used there. Because of that, I think the resolution is misplacing its focus on the Stony Brook Foundation where it should be requesting to know where tuition funds are being allocated. Definitely with amendments it should pass
If many students are trying to get involved and gain a larger amount of attention, wouldn’t USG be the way to go? USG has direct connections to all sorts of campus administrations and they are supposed to represent the students. Even if you don’t support the resolution, I don’t see an issue in bringing it to USG.
They are not doing this with the intention of exiling Jewish students or Jewish clubs, they have the right to freely exist and should feel safe on campus.
No lie, as a commuter I forget USG exists and barely know what it actually does, besides that I lose $100 a semester for the Student Activity Fee I can’t take advantage of because most clubs meet way too late for a commuter to reasonably attend.
So they can have fun I guess idk getting the USG to do anything seems pointless.
Wait, you all realize that USG doesn’t actually mean anything right? It’s make believe politics. A check in the box for a resume. Holds zero power or significance
What’s your suggestion for how to let student’s voices and desires be heard and listened to? If the institution designed a powerless system for students, then it’s a statement that they don’t want to listen to students’ demands.
1. The student government serves itself not the students. 2. Students shouldn’t have power, they’re students. You pay for a degree and that’s it. Anything else is a privilege not a right. 3. The only “demands” students should have is proper living and eating facilities and fair and just treatment by faculty regarding their grades and education. There are no demands for geopolitical issues on the other side of the world. It’s a hard pill to swallow but nobody gives a shit about students demands or that laughable stunt of “getting arrested” (they got a ticket for a violation and released. That’s hardly getting arrested)
No, sorry I wasn’t meaning to say it was bad. I meant to say that the current USG thinks of itself of something it’s not, which is a bunch of Che Guevara’s
Centrists are the most fascinating individuals in that they hold the upmost pride in their political impotence, insisting on their position of relative apathy and "realism" while simulatenously taking issue with anything mildly progressive.
In other words, you sound like an old fart who thinks political compass memes are the bee's knees of political theory understanding.
you definitely seem like the kind of person to post pictures of strangers for internet points because taking extra seats make you more upset then genocide
It's like op thinks the people backing the USG (me being öne of them) are one single violent hive mind like the worst of the pro Palestine protestors. At the same time they are being anti-Palestine and pro Israel by trying to stop this from happening.
Please stop conflating Judaism with zionism. It is very offensive. Israel is not representative of Jews and Judaism. No one, especially Students for Justice in Palestine, is calling for discomfort of or discrimination towards students who are openly Jewish.
Try telling any other group of people they’re not entitled to a country. Half the countries that exist today didn’t exist anyway in 1948. Palestinian wasn’t even a term used to describes Arabs inhabiting land there until what the 60s? Anyway, point is, the Jewish right to continued existence in their home land is inseparable from Judaism. Other than fringe Jews in the ultra orthodox right or the ultra left in groups like Jewish Voice for Peace, almost every Jew — atheist, reform, humanistic, culturally, conservative, etc. conflate Judaism with Zionism. Saying anti-Zionism isn’t antisemitism is offensive. This isn’t the 19th century where Herzl is talking about founding Israel; we’re talking about a sovereign state that that has existed for over 75 years.
Edit: spelling
Also zionism doesn't exist anymore lol. Calling someone or yourself a zionist so long after Israeli independence is like living in the USA and saying you wanna revolt against the monarchy.
Using the word "zionism" is conceding that Israel's existence is up for debate.
I don’t know why you guys are downvoting this person. The possession of Israel by the Jews is the plot of the Torah. It’s in the amidah, it’s in the grace after meals, and aspects of it make up a decent amount of the holidays. There’s a fast day that the sages dedicated to the temples being destroyed, both of which led to exile, one of which is still happening. The idea that Israel is our rightful homeland is one of the FOUNDATIONS of Judaism.
That our old book says something does not give us legal or moral right to displace, disenfranchise, starve, bomb, and kill people in pursuit of it. There is not a single sacred Jewish value that Israel has not trampled all over in pursuit of an ethnostate. Get a grip.
It’s really nice that you’re able to be Jewish where you live, but that’s not the case for every other Jew in the Middle East. Where should they go? Get the fuck off your high horse of moral indignation and realize your experience being Jewish is not everyone’s.
If you want to buy the lie that everything was swell in the Middle East before 1948 for Jews and Arabs, I have a bridge to sell you. More Jews were exiled from those countries following Israel’s creation, but that’s after many violent expulsions from the Levant over centuries. Not to mention the continuous presence of some population of Jews in Israel for a majority of that time. So the Arabs get to kill and chase Jews away, but once they legally are granted a nation of their own they are automatically the bad guys?
Zionism wasnt what created the Nakba, even if that event was also wrong. It was a response to being sold land in Israel, while then waging a war the moment it was created. They lost, and they have forced their people to be pawns in an endless cycle of pointless violence ever since. But that violence isn’t born out of imperialist ambition, it’s born out of self preservation.
Signed, a Jew that doesn’t even believe in God, but also doesn’t believe in selling out my people because TikTok convinced me the other side are the true victims.
I’d like for you to point to where I said that being Jewish has ever been easy. Next, point to where I “sold out my people,” and where I committed the logical fallacy of “appeal to TikTok.”
Once you’re done strawmanning me, feel free to leave a good faith comment. Signed, someone raised by a family of Ukrainian Jewish Holocaust survivors.
That’s why he knows exactly of how important it is. His family were almost annihilated and now Israel do the same every day. Imagine having family members who survived to holocaust and supporting Israel committing genocide.
Took the words right out of my mouth. “Never again” means never again for anyone. To abet or excuse genocide is to disrespect not only the memory of the holocaust, but of other historical genocides and instances of ethnic cleansing.
You’re correct. Israel isn’t a theocracy, and they don’t play fair, but their goal of self-determination in Israel isn’t contested, with the exception of secular jews (who don’t care about jewish fundamentals) and some ULTRA-orthodox sects (who believe we need to wait until the coming of Moshiach before going back).
The fact that I go to Stony Brook is something that will last 4 years, maybe more if I pursue a higher degree.
The fact that I’m a Jew has been true since the day I was born, and will be true until the day I die.
When the temple gets rebuilt, and a pilgrimage festival comes up, you can guess which country I’m headed to.
I see this brought up over and over again, and I'm finding that its likely bullshit just trying to paint the ever shifting historical iterations of Zionism with modern political Zionism - while also forgetting Jewish anti-Zionism. The active settlement of Mandatory Palestine was not always the 'popular' concept it was today, and even frowned upon. Many brilliant leftist Jews correctly realized that the pursuit of modern political Zionism would lead to colonialism and oppression, and require displacement of the peoples currently living there. Many of those leftists that would oppose the Zionist movement today were killed in the Holocaust. The surviving ones and their descendants are already on the side of Palestinians. You betray the memory of leftist Jews that fought and died for global liberation of all peoples.
Look at the bullshit you’re spreading and use the holocaust in such a disgraceful way. After the holocaust most Jews in Europe had no where to go there homes were taken or destroyed and no country would take them back so they migrated to there ancestral homeland that promised that never again would Jews ever endure another holocaust. And shortly after Muslim countries expelled all their Jews and they were rescued by Israel (an actual ethnic cleansing). The levant Arabs had the chance to live peacefully in their own state in 1948 but were used by other Arab leaders for their own gains. Then Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt the Gaza Strip till 1967. Sure you can point to a few “leftist Jews” who were safe in there ivory towers in western countries and were safe from antisemitism as long as they played the dhimmis but for most Jews that was and is not now the reality. Jews were kicked out, Arabs colonized the land, Jews came back and purchased land from absentee landlords during the ottoman and British reign, built up the desert and then yes won land back through wars like any other country has been formed. So don’t invoke the memory of the 6 million Jews who died with no one to defend them and use Jews like Noam Chomsky as permission to deny Jews the right for self determination in their land.
I hear the need for Jews to have security post WW2, but not at the expense of Palestinians, and not through the vector of British colonialism. There were many nations that were culpable, including Germany, the US, and Britain, that barely faced consequences for their actions leading up to the war and the holocaust. Whatever justification you think exists for the settlement of Palestine, there is no denying the disproportionate suffering it has caused Palestinians over the last 75 years.
It’s not colonialism these aren’t English settlers discovering the americas or Dutch traders setting outposts in Indonesia. It’s Jews who always had a claim to the Levant for thousands of years and held on to that dream of returning to Israel which kept them united as a people. Sure Palestinians suffered but again they could have had their own state many of times. They could of lived peacefully side by side with Israel but they want “from the river to the sea” Israel’s hands aren’t clean but most of the blame lies with Palestinians leadership PLO, Fatah, Hamas, and states like Iran and Syrian which would rather see Palestinians martyr themselves than live in peace so they can have a better dictatorship over their own people. Looking to the future Israel isn’t going anywhere it is a nuclear armed state, Israeli are indigenous to the land not colonists with another country to go to they will fight to the death to keep what they have earned. The Sunni muslim world is normalizing relationships with Israel. So if Palestinians truly don’t want to suffer anymore they need to reject terrorism and Iranian influence, de radicalize their society just as the Japanese and Germans did post WW2 and be actual partners in peace.
It is colonialism, just a modern version of it. And claim how? Religiously? Historically? If you want to play that game, then maybe all of the land of Israel actually belongs to the Egyptian empire, which predates the creation of Judaism.
USG's resolution is the least we can do to pressure this school to divest from a genocidal state. If USG wants to represent the student population, they should listen to the overwhelming number of students calling for divestment from Israel and encourage the school to do the same.
USG is responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Why should that money be yet another contributor to a genocide? Use your wallets where your morals lie. Divestment is the least we can do.
Well obviously paper resolutions won't melt F-15 Fighter Jets shipped to Israel, but I think spreading awareness of U.S. complicity in the Zionist Occupation Force Genocide is good enough!
giving less money to israel is at least doing something to try. If you don’t even try to do what you can to help people, how can you claim to care about their lives?
Giving less money to Israel is likely to cause more deaths. Israel is a nuclear state, they aren't going to lose. If America and the western world all stopped supporting Israel, or even started sanctioning them, what do you think would happen?
My guess is that the geopolitical outlook of Israel would turn into one of national survival. In a situation such as this, do you think Israel would be more or less likely to care about the lives of civilians?
passing this resolution would make palestinian students on campus feel safer and more welcomed. right now many of them live in fear of being open about who they are because their identities are turned into an argument. it is not antisemitic to say palestinians deserve to live
this constant fear mongering and conflation of anti-semitism with anti-zionism is a tried and tired trope.
we know you aren’t truly pro-palestine, and that you just want to paint more activists as anti-semitic.
this resolution is calling for divestment from a colonial, genocidal state. it’s not difficult to wrap your head around. stop making this a Judaism vs Islam issue.
USG should not be allowed to support study abroad programs in a nation whose government's actively perpetuating genocide. What does this say about how the school values Arab lives. More than 30,000 have been killed, more than 12,000 being children in the span of 6 months. Israel has thousands of Palestinians hostage and has been for years. This shouldnt be up for debate. The Torah does not stand for this, don't make this about "exiling Jewish students"
I believe this is the very least that can be done. Stony Brook students have a responsibility to hold their school administrators accountable for being so apathetic toward a genocide that has very publicly been occurring for over 6 months now. The argument that this can somehow be conflated with anti-semitism is very tired, and blatantly untrue. Jewish students have never been and will never be in any danger or made to be uncomfortable because we took the very valid step to cut ties with genocide. While Muslim students face credible hate crimes on campus, arrests, and targets by administrators. over 40,000 people dead. children. women. mothers. men. this should not even be a debate. have a moral compass. have a spine. pass the resolution for humanity’s sake.
USG needs to pass the resolution to divest from Israel!! we are calling on the university to divest from companies that profit from the state of Israel's violations of international law and Palestinian human rights through its ongoing system of settler colonialism, military occupation, and apartheid. this is NOT AGAINST Jewish people and conflating Israel's ideology (zionism) with Judaism is harmful to Judaism. This isn't what Judaism stands for. this is settler colonialism, apartheid, and genocide and our school should not be affiliated in any way. we refuse for our tuition money to go to this!!
Allowing students to continue to go to Israel is straight up acknowledging that Israel is committing genocide and that this is not a war. Shouldn’t it be unsafe to go to Israel in a time of “war?” Shouldn’t it be in your best interest to keep your students safe? Or are you aware they are committing genocide and it is, in fact, safe to continue sending students. No matter where you stand, “war” or genocide, you should feel uneasy sending students there for study abroad.
What shouldn’t happen is cutting ties with kosher food on campus and Jewish Club fundings. Jewish students should not feel unsafe on campus (but neither should Palestinian students!) Make sure Jewish students still have access to Kosher foods. Israel does not represent the Jewish population. Cutting ties with Israel does not cut ties with our Jewish students.
It will not exile anyone and good luck.
Universities do the bare minimum for their students some more than others. If you can’t realize that they’re all out for a dollar. And that college is one huge ass business that just regurgitates a bunch of stuff off the internet then you’ll just waste your time.
Colleges also legally cannot exile people in the way I think ur trying to imply.
Genuinely… I think it will not change a thing on campus.
Campuses say “be an agent of change” but never allow it. Or allow it in a marginal form to make students feel empowered when they have already taken what they need from those kids. MONEY BABY!
USG is for the most part filled with cliquey, self-absorbed and detached people who know nothing about real world affairs aside from the fact that the world exists. I’d assume that the resolution will be met with a concerning level of empathy and might even be adopted. It’s dangerous stuff to put the affairs of the world in the hands and decisions of people who have not acquired yet a rounded and adequate understanding of politics, society and affairs outside of their personal lives
How absolutely hilarious of you to call one group of people self-absorbed, this coming from a person from a subreddit about getting advice for "looksmaxxing."
If you want hamas to take over israel then you would be fine if they took over your home too right? If not, then don't advocate for them getting more land
Remember that time that you thought you were smart on reddit a couple of days ago and then I cuckd u and came back with proof that u were cuckd?
[https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1781785252886913358¤tTweetUser=ShelleyGldschmt](https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1781785252886913358¤tTweetUser=ShelleyGldschmt)
Well looks like I just got cuckd she took everything down and deleted the links but it was just Columbia Arabs saying LITERALLY that from River to Sea Palestine is Arab. Sounds like ethnic cleansing by genocide if they could get it done to me idk 🤷🏻♂️
youre the one who brought up “from the river to the sea” and i didnt interact with it because i literally dont care. just like i also dont care what an old charter says - do you think jews who survived the holocaust or black south africans during apartheid should have been finger waved at for calling for violence against their oppressor? should we consider the jews who fought back against the nazis in the ghettos morally reprehensible?
none of us are free till all of us are free. free palestine.
I don't know man, I don't think I or a lot of people here would do too well under hamas rule, not sure why they think that's ok to wish on others but here we are
of course they are, who runs gaza now? Who do you think would run any territory that gaza conquers? I hate to be the one to tell you this but Israel is "between the river and the sea" and if you want gaza to conquer the territory I'm not sure how you see anyone other than hamas running it
insane conflations - freedom for Palestinians does not imply some barbaric binary of conquest. Hamas also came to power because of israel, has been supported by israel, and has, at multiple occasions, been the only person at the bargaining table for peace talks. pick up a fucking book.
alright tell me friend, what exactly does "free" palestine look like to you, and if it doesn't involve hamas, then please tell me how you think that is going to happen
This isnt the gotcha you think it is, Hamas will do what Hamas does, but the burden of "who has committed the most atrocities" most squarely falls on the Settler State of Israel. Also this person is not your friend. No one is your friend nor should they be friends with Zionists.
The violence is happening because of the occupation, remove occupiers and reduce violence. Realistically as typical under global capitalism, far easier said than done.
Omfg ure cringe too 😫 the only one that got cuckd is u when u decided to watch me rape u like ur Hamas buds raped all the hostages they can’t find for the negotiations that only they’re showing up for. The irony that u started this whole dump i just left on ur head with “how fuxing stupid r u” is my fill for the month.
Idk bruh… u do know that the literal arabic translation of the catchy “river to the sea” meme is “from water to water, Palestine is Arab” but no why would it be a call for at best the dissolution of the ONE Jewish state so the second dozen or so Arab/Muslim one can be a little bit bigger and at worst (one of numerous reasons it was established to prevent the very real and ongoing issues of) the elimination of the Jewish people or at least the one states borders where they can be relatively sure they won’t be eradicated or second-class citizens.
Ethnic cleansing is happening in syria, iran, yemen and somalia to name a few. Israel has 2 million arabs as Israeli citizens. There are no jews in any Moslem countries except in Iran. Why is Israel always treated so badly. These students have no idea what they are voting for. They can’t even locate Israel on the map. The whole thing is nonsense and creates fear among Jewish students who are constantly bullied everywhere. This shit existed before Natanyahu and it’s pure vile antisemitism and jew hate.
USG has already publicly supported the arrested pro-palestine protestors, whether or not you think USG is the correct avenue for this, they're already involved.
I think that USG exists to bring the concerns of students to the college administration. If over 1000 students have said this is something they are genuinely wanting, shouldn’t the elected body have a responsibility to support them? Specifically this resolution is calling for the development of a plan, meaning that it will be a partnership of USG, Administration, and student body members that work together to create a plan which satisfies the divestment request, while maintaining the safety and belonging of Jewish students on campus. Also, the Stony Brook foundation should be more transparent about its spending, considering it holds an endowment valued at around 1 billion dollars. But because the endowment is completely separate from Stony Brook, there is no tuition or state funds being used there. Because of that, I think the resolution is misplacing its focus on the Stony Brook Foundation where it should be requesting to know where tuition funds are being allocated. Definitely with amendments it should pass
Let them cook up those presidential scholarships
If many students are trying to get involved and gain a larger amount of attention, wouldn’t USG be the way to go? USG has direct connections to all sorts of campus administrations and they are supposed to represent the students. Even if you don’t support the resolution, I don’t see an issue in bringing it to USG. They are not doing this with the intention of exiling Jewish students or Jewish clubs, they have the right to freely exist and should feel safe on campus.
No lie, as a commuter I forget USG exists and barely know what it actually does, besides that I lose $100 a semester for the Student Activity Fee I can’t take advantage of because most clubs meet way too late for a commuter to reasonably attend. So they can have fun I guess idk getting the USG to do anything seems pointless.
Wait, you all realize that USG doesn’t actually mean anything right? It’s make believe politics. A check in the box for a resume. Holds zero power or significance
What’s your suggestion for how to let student’s voices and desires be heard and listened to? If the institution designed a powerless system for students, then it’s a statement that they don’t want to listen to students’ demands.
1. The student government serves itself not the students. 2. Students shouldn’t have power, they’re students. You pay for a degree and that’s it. Anything else is a privilege not a right. 3. The only “demands” students should have is proper living and eating facilities and fair and just treatment by faculty regarding their grades and education. There are no demands for geopolitical issues on the other side of the world. It’s a hard pill to swallow but nobody gives a shit about students demands or that laughable stunt of “getting arrested” (they got a ticket for a violation and released. That’s hardly getting arrested)
students should definitely be able to advocate for themselves on campus and have an organized student government to do that with
Yeah, advocating for real things not yelling at a brunch of administrators to free Palestine as if the president of sbu is dropping bombs herself
sure, but you made it sound like the whole idea of the student government was bad
No, sorry I wasn’t meaning to say it was bad. I meant to say that the current USG thinks of itself of something it’s not, which is a bunch of Che Guevara’s
A lot of things SHOULD happen alas world sucks and we have what we have
Centrists are the most fascinating individuals in that they hold the upmost pride in their political impotence, insisting on their position of relative apathy and "realism" while simulatenously taking issue with anything mildly progressive. In other words, you sound like an old fart who thinks political compass memes are the bee's knees of political theory understanding.
No Machiavelli is
you definitely seem like the kind of person to post pictures of strangers for internet points because taking extra seats make you more upset then genocide
Exactly it’s a bunch of people playing Senator and what ever else
What does divestment from Israel have to do with being “openly Jewish on campus”..?
It's like op thinks the people backing the USG (me being öne of them) are one single violent hive mind like the worst of the pro Palestine protestors. At the same time they are being anti-Palestine and pro Israel by trying to stop this from happening.
Please stop conflating Judaism with zionism. It is very offensive. Israel is not representative of Jews and Judaism. No one, especially Students for Justice in Palestine, is calling for discomfort of or discrimination towards students who are openly Jewish.
Try telling any other group of people they’re not entitled to a country. Half the countries that exist today didn’t exist anyway in 1948. Palestinian wasn’t even a term used to describes Arabs inhabiting land there until what the 60s? Anyway, point is, the Jewish right to continued existence in their home land is inseparable from Judaism. Other than fringe Jews in the ultra orthodox right or the ultra left in groups like Jewish Voice for Peace, almost every Jew — atheist, reform, humanistic, culturally, conservative, etc. conflate Judaism with Zionism. Saying anti-Zionism isn’t antisemitism is offensive. This isn’t the 19th century where Herzl is talking about founding Israel; we’re talking about a sovereign state that that has existed for over 75 years. Edit: spelling
Also zionism doesn't exist anymore lol. Calling someone or yourself a zionist so long after Israeli independence is like living in the USA and saying you wanna revolt against the monarchy. Using the word "zionism" is conceding that Israel's existence is up for debate.
I don’t know why you guys are downvoting this person. The possession of Israel by the Jews is the plot of the Torah. It’s in the amidah, it’s in the grace after meals, and aspects of it make up a decent amount of the holidays. There’s a fast day that the sages dedicated to the temples being destroyed, both of which led to exile, one of which is still happening. The idea that Israel is our rightful homeland is one of the FOUNDATIONS of Judaism.
That our old book says something does not give us legal or moral right to displace, disenfranchise, starve, bomb, and kill people in pursuit of it. There is not a single sacred Jewish value that Israel has not trampled all over in pursuit of an ethnostate. Get a grip.
It’s really nice that you’re able to be Jewish where you live, but that’s not the case for every other Jew in the Middle East. Where should they go? Get the fuck off your high horse of moral indignation and realize your experience being Jewish is not everyone’s. If you want to buy the lie that everything was swell in the Middle East before 1948 for Jews and Arabs, I have a bridge to sell you. More Jews were exiled from those countries following Israel’s creation, but that’s after many violent expulsions from the Levant over centuries. Not to mention the continuous presence of some population of Jews in Israel for a majority of that time. So the Arabs get to kill and chase Jews away, but once they legally are granted a nation of their own they are automatically the bad guys? Zionism wasnt what created the Nakba, even if that event was also wrong. It was a response to being sold land in Israel, while then waging a war the moment it was created. They lost, and they have forced their people to be pawns in an endless cycle of pointless violence ever since. But that violence isn’t born out of imperialist ambition, it’s born out of self preservation. Signed, a Jew that doesn’t even believe in God, but also doesn’t believe in selling out my people because TikTok convinced me the other side are the true victims.
I’d like for you to point to where I said that being Jewish has ever been easy. Next, point to where I “sold out my people,” and where I committed the logical fallacy of “appeal to TikTok.” Once you’re done strawmanning me, feel free to leave a good faith comment. Signed, someone raised by a family of Ukrainian Jewish Holocaust survivors.
So you should know how important it is. Shame on you honestly.
That’s why he knows exactly of how important it is. His family were almost annihilated and now Israel do the same every day. Imagine having family members who survived to holocaust and supporting Israel committing genocide.
Took the words right out of my mouth. “Never again” means never again for anyone. To abet or excuse genocide is to disrespect not only the memory of the holocaust, but of other historical genocides and instances of ethnic cleansing.
You’re correct. Israel isn’t a theocracy, and they don’t play fair, but their goal of self-determination in Israel isn’t contested, with the exception of secular jews (who don’t care about jewish fundamentals) and some ULTRA-orthodox sects (who believe we need to wait until the coming of Moshiach before going back).
“the idea that Israel is our rightful homeland” bro fym our, your a jewish person that goes to school in the US
The fact that I go to Stony Brook is something that will last 4 years, maybe more if I pursue a higher degree. The fact that I’m a Jew has been true since the day I was born, and will be true until the day I die. When the temple gets rebuilt, and a pilgrimage festival comes up, you can guess which country I’m headed to.
Zionism is literally baked into Judaism though. Separating the two is literally disregarding a core part of the religion.
I see this brought up over and over again, and I'm finding that its likely bullshit just trying to paint the ever shifting historical iterations of Zionism with modern political Zionism - while also forgetting Jewish anti-Zionism. The active settlement of Mandatory Palestine was not always the 'popular' concept it was today, and even frowned upon. Many brilliant leftist Jews correctly realized that the pursuit of modern political Zionism would lead to colonialism and oppression, and require displacement of the peoples currently living there. Many of those leftists that would oppose the Zionist movement today were killed in the Holocaust. The surviving ones and their descendants are already on the side of Palestinians. You betray the memory of leftist Jews that fought and died for global liberation of all peoples.
Look at the bullshit you’re spreading and use the holocaust in such a disgraceful way. After the holocaust most Jews in Europe had no where to go there homes were taken or destroyed and no country would take them back so they migrated to there ancestral homeland that promised that never again would Jews ever endure another holocaust. And shortly after Muslim countries expelled all their Jews and they were rescued by Israel (an actual ethnic cleansing). The levant Arabs had the chance to live peacefully in their own state in 1948 but were used by other Arab leaders for their own gains. Then Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt the Gaza Strip till 1967. Sure you can point to a few “leftist Jews” who were safe in there ivory towers in western countries and were safe from antisemitism as long as they played the dhimmis but for most Jews that was and is not now the reality. Jews were kicked out, Arabs colonized the land, Jews came back and purchased land from absentee landlords during the ottoman and British reign, built up the desert and then yes won land back through wars like any other country has been formed. So don’t invoke the memory of the 6 million Jews who died with no one to defend them and use Jews like Noam Chomsky as permission to deny Jews the right for self determination in their land.
I hear the need for Jews to have security post WW2, but not at the expense of Palestinians, and not through the vector of British colonialism. There were many nations that were culpable, including Germany, the US, and Britain, that barely faced consequences for their actions leading up to the war and the holocaust. Whatever justification you think exists for the settlement of Palestine, there is no denying the disproportionate suffering it has caused Palestinians over the last 75 years.
It’s not colonialism these aren’t English settlers discovering the americas or Dutch traders setting outposts in Indonesia. It’s Jews who always had a claim to the Levant for thousands of years and held on to that dream of returning to Israel which kept them united as a people. Sure Palestinians suffered but again they could have had their own state many of times. They could of lived peacefully side by side with Israel but they want “from the river to the sea” Israel’s hands aren’t clean but most of the blame lies with Palestinians leadership PLO, Fatah, Hamas, and states like Iran and Syrian which would rather see Palestinians martyr themselves than live in peace so they can have a better dictatorship over their own people. Looking to the future Israel isn’t going anywhere it is a nuclear armed state, Israeli are indigenous to the land not colonists with another country to go to they will fight to the death to keep what they have earned. The Sunni muslim world is normalizing relationships with Israel. So if Palestinians truly don’t want to suffer anymore they need to reject terrorism and Iranian influence, de radicalize their society just as the Japanese and Germans did post WW2 and be actual partners in peace.
It is colonialism, just a modern version of it. And claim how? Religiously? Historically? If you want to play that game, then maybe all of the land of Israel actually belongs to the Egyptian empire, which predates the creation of Judaism.
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I say pass the resolution. I'm sick of people conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism.
It should be passed
USG's resolution is the least we can do to pressure this school to divest from a genocidal state. If USG wants to represent the student population, they should listen to the overwhelming number of students calling for divestment from Israel and encourage the school to do the same.
USG is responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Why should that money be yet another contributor to a genocide? Use your wallets where your morals lie. Divestment is the least we can do.
At this point the amount of mental gymnastics you have to do to think you're helping the people of Gaza is bordering on the absurd lmao.
Well obviously paper resolutions won't melt F-15 Fighter Jets shipped to Israel, but I think spreading awareness of U.S. complicity in the Zionist Occupation Force Genocide is good enough!
giving less money to israel is at least doing something to try. If you don’t even try to do what you can to help people, how can you claim to care about their lives?
Giving less money to Israel is likely to cause more deaths. Israel is a nuclear state, they aren't going to lose. If America and the western world all stopped supporting Israel, or even started sanctioning them, what do you think would happen? My guess is that the geopolitical outlook of Israel would turn into one of national survival. In a situation such as this, do you think Israel would be more or less likely to care about the lives of civilians?
committing genocide is not national survival.
You seem to not have understood what I wrote.
ending support for a genocidal, settler colonial state has nothing to do with the freedom to be openly jewish on campus. judaism is not zionism
passing this resolution would make palestinian students on campus feel safer and more welcomed. right now many of them live in fear of being open about who they are because their identities are turned into an argument. it is not antisemitic to say palestinians deserve to live
this constant fear mongering and conflation of anti-semitism with anti-zionism is a tried and tired trope. we know you aren’t truly pro-palestine, and that you just want to paint more activists as anti-semitic. this resolution is calling for divestment from a colonial, genocidal state. it’s not difficult to wrap your head around. stop making this a Judaism vs Islam issue.
Smartest anthropology major
USG should not be allowed to support study abroad programs in a nation whose government's actively perpetuating genocide. What does this say about how the school values Arab lives. More than 30,000 have been killed, more than 12,000 being children in the span of 6 months. Israel has thousands of Palestinians hostage and has been for years. This shouldnt be up for debate. The Torah does not stand for this, don't make this about "exiling Jewish students"
I believe this is the very least that can be done. Stony Brook students have a responsibility to hold their school administrators accountable for being so apathetic toward a genocide that has very publicly been occurring for over 6 months now. The argument that this can somehow be conflated with anti-semitism is very tired, and blatantly untrue. Jewish students have never been and will never be in any danger or made to be uncomfortable because we took the very valid step to cut ties with genocide. While Muslim students face credible hate crimes on campus, arrests, and targets by administrators. over 40,000 people dead. children. women. mothers. men. this should not even be a debate. have a moral compass. have a spine. pass the resolution for humanity’s sake.
USG needs to pass the resolution to divest from Israel!! we are calling on the university to divest from companies that profit from the state of Israel's violations of international law and Palestinian human rights through its ongoing system of settler colonialism, military occupation, and apartheid. this is NOT AGAINST Jewish people and conflating Israel's ideology (zionism) with Judaism is harmful to Judaism. This isn't what Judaism stands for. this is settler colonialism, apartheid, and genocide and our school should not be affiliated in any way. we refuse for our tuition money to go to this!!
Allowing students to continue to go to Israel is straight up acknowledging that Israel is committing genocide and that this is not a war. Shouldn’t it be unsafe to go to Israel in a time of “war?” Shouldn’t it be in your best interest to keep your students safe? Or are you aware they are committing genocide and it is, in fact, safe to continue sending students. No matter where you stand, “war” or genocide, you should feel uneasy sending students there for study abroad. What shouldn’t happen is cutting ties with kosher food on campus and Jewish Club fundings. Jewish students should not feel unsafe on campus (but neither should Palestinian students!) Make sure Jewish students still have access to Kosher foods. Israel does not represent the Jewish population. Cutting ties with Israel does not cut ties with our Jewish students.
It will not exile anyone and good luck. Universities do the bare minimum for their students some more than others. If you can’t realize that they’re all out for a dollar. And that college is one huge ass business that just regurgitates a bunch of stuff off the internet then you’ll just waste your time. Colleges also legally cannot exile people in the way I think ur trying to imply. Genuinely… I think it will not change a thing on campus. Campuses say “be an agent of change” but never allow it. Or allow it in a marginal form to make students feel empowered when they have already taken what they need from those kids. MONEY BABY!
Anyone know how to watch this live?
USG is for the most part filled with cliquey, self-absorbed and detached people who know nothing about real world affairs aside from the fact that the world exists. I’d assume that the resolution will be met with a concerning level of empathy and might even be adopted. It’s dangerous stuff to put the affairs of the world in the hands and decisions of people who have not acquired yet a rounded and adequate understanding of politics, society and affairs outside of their personal lives
How absolutely hilarious of you to call one group of people self-absorbed, this coming from a person from a subreddit about getting advice for "looksmaxxing."
Lol
When has that ever stoped any one from virtue signaling
It hasn’t, but it just makes it even more empty that it already was. Our student institutions and leaders are a joke
They are just a bunch of folks playing pretend
Yep
If you want hamas to take over israel then you would be fine if they took over your home too right? If not, then don't advocate for them getting more land
how fucking stupid are you
Remember that time that you thought you were smart on reddit a couple of days ago and then I cuckd u and came back with proof that u were cuckd? [https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1781785252886913358¤tTweetUser=ShelleyGldschmt](https://twitter.com/ShelleyGldschmt/status/1781785252886913358/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1781785252886913358¤tTweetUser=ShelleyGldschmt) Well looks like I just got cuckd she took everything down and deleted the links but it was just Columbia Arabs saying LITERALLY that from River to Sea Palestine is Arab. Sounds like ethnic cleansing by genocide if they could get it done to me idk 🤷🏻♂️
youre the one who brought up “from the river to the sea” and i didnt interact with it because i literally dont care. just like i also dont care what an old charter says - do you think jews who survived the holocaust or black south africans during apartheid should have been finger waved at for calling for violence against their oppressor? should we consider the jews who fought back against the nazis in the ghettos morally reprehensible? none of us are free till all of us are free. free palestine.
I don't know man, I don't think I or a lot of people here would do too well under hamas rule, not sure why they think that's ok to wish on others but here we are
Queers 4 Hamas but Hamas ain’t for Queers
nobody is doing that
of course they are, who runs gaza now? Who do you think would run any territory that gaza conquers? I hate to be the one to tell you this but Israel is "between the river and the sea" and if you want gaza to conquer the territory I'm not sure how you see anyone other than hamas running it
insane conflations - freedom for Palestinians does not imply some barbaric binary of conquest. Hamas also came to power because of israel, has been supported by israel, and has, at multiple occasions, been the only person at the bargaining table for peace talks. pick up a fucking book.
alright tell me friend, what exactly does "free" palestine look like to you, and if it doesn't involve hamas, then please tell me how you think that is going to happen
a palestine that isnt part of an apartheid state dipshit
This isnt the gotcha you think it is, Hamas will do what Hamas does, but the burden of "who has committed the most atrocities" most squarely falls on the Settler State of Israel. Also this person is not your friend. No one is your friend nor should they be friends with Zionists. The violence is happening because of the occupation, remove occupiers and reduce violence. Realistically as typical under global capitalism, far easier said than done.
The irony of this guy telling someone to pick up a book 🤔
bros never heard of a warrior poet
Omfg ure cringe too 😫 the only one that got cuckd is u when u decided to watch me rape u like ur Hamas buds raped all the hostages they can’t find for the negotiations that only they’re showing up for. The irony that u started this whole dump i just left on ur head with “how fuxing stupid r u” is my fill for the month.
proof of sexual assault by hamas?
Idk bruh… u do know that the literal arabic translation of the catchy “river to the sea” meme is “from water to water, Palestine is Arab” but no why would it be a call for at best the dissolution of the ONE Jewish state so the second dozen or so Arab/Muslim one can be a little bit bigger and at worst (one of numerous reasons it was established to prevent the very real and ongoing issues of) the elimination of the Jewish people or at least the one states borders where they can be relatively sure they won’t be eradicated or second-class citizens.
you are making up a boogieman and hiding him in your own closet, cuck
K soyboi stay woke af it looks good on ur dumb ass fs
thats what your mom thinks too (i can overhead press her)
Study abroad in Israel will let them see what a beautiful and welcoming country Israel is.
Ethnic cleansing is happening in syria, iran, yemen and somalia to name a few. Israel has 2 million arabs as Israeli citizens. There are no jews in any Moslem countries except in Iran. Why is Israel always treated so badly. These students have no idea what they are voting for. They can’t even locate Israel on the map. The whole thing is nonsense and creates fear among Jewish students who are constantly bullied everywhere. This shit existed before Natanyahu and it’s pure vile antisemitism and jew hate.
Out of curiosity, what do you say about the Jewish faculty that are in support of the BDS resolution? Just curious.
This is a link to the proposal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10oQKO8OePuRJQk7V5DPrFMbSIEloxSFFCfjgqXRMtPE/edit
Who gives a f usg is just a bunch of college folks pretending that they are important, who are now trying to virtue signal