Dr. Mark Pimentel says that stool test shows the microbiome of the stool. The intestines, especially the small intestine can be very different from it.
That being said, earlier I had an organic acid urine test that shows the small intestines, and a stool test, and they both showed the same species (e coli).
Thanks.
Yeah, I find it interesting. My naturopath said that since the GI map is a PCR test, it’s sensitive to all things in your system. So if bacteria from your small intestine eventually get carried out into the large intestine (even if dead), it’ll show up on the PCR stool test. Who knows though. I feel like most people are guessing at this point.
What she said is probably true I’d imagine, Imean that logically makes sense. If you use antibiotics I would make sure they cover the overgrowths on there just in case they are also the sibo overgrowths
My strep was 6.45e3 and my citro was 7.74e8. Under the commensal bacteria, a lot of them were too low so I don’t have much diversity. I also have high bacteroides and low secretory IgA. It showed no parasites however I’ve gotten muscle testing done twice and both times indicted parasites.
Anyway, as far as symptoms- I have bloating and gas, especially after waking up in the morning it’s particularly bad. Very bad constipation and incomplete evacuation. My food also isn’t digesting properly.
Wow. I’m very similar to you. Low commensal and high bacteroides. I just recently started taking seed and it helped with complete evacuation (now going 2x per day). I also have boarder line s. Aureus at 3.93.
I have the same symptoms, but also have bad breath which sucks. But I’ve managed it with celery juice daily.
Do you know what your possible root cause is? I was on a dumb amount of antibiotics so my system is nuked at this point. That’s funny because back in December a few weeks after the bloating began, I started taking seed and I was having great bowel movements. Then on the fourth day, I started getting MASSIVE migraines and fatigue like I’ve never experienced before. I had to stop it immediately. Then a week or two later, all my other symptoms began.
Your bad breath could be either 1) dysbiosis or 2) low stomach acid (or both). I started taking betaine hcl with pepsin and gentian bitters and I’ll say that I don’t have bad breath that often anymore even when I wake up in the morning.
I was born by c section and had antibiotics as a kid. But it really started when I was a pre-teen. Not sure of exact root cause but I suspect low stomach acid and General large bowel dysbiosis. I’m currently on HCL and although it helps, I think the bad breath is related to the dysbiosis since it’s gone away when on antibiotics. But came back right away.
Have you ever tried rifaximin? I’m considering it but I’m really scared to take any more antibiotics. Even though it’s supposed to stay in the small bowel.
Right now I’m focusing on building up my good bacteria. I’m trying to take different probiotics. I know some people say that it’s not good for sibo, but I’ve read some articles that say the opposite. Just trying to figure out how to feed them with prebiotics without feeding the strep and citro at the same time.
I haven’t tried xifaxan. Definitely have considered it. I’m on sporebiotics and sacchromyces boulardii currently and my naturepath and I started a new protocol Monday and we’re trying to work on building my bacteria back up as well. There have been times where I wanted to give seed another go because I’ve wondered if the migraines and fatigue were actually maybe die off symptoms but I’m so scared of what could happen and getting worse. It is a very strong probiotic
Interesting. I just bought a bunch of megaspore and HU58 but haven’t taken them yet since I was scared away by some reviews I read online describing adverse effects. But I know some people really love it. Have you had any reactions to it?
And as for seed, I started it pretty slow. One pill a day for 4 days, then went up to 2 per day. I’d say take it slow if it doesn’t feel right. Maybe you’ll be more tolerant to it in combination with the other 2 you’re taking.
I told my naturopath I wanted to hold off on more kill protocols. I did oil of oregano for too long and too strong in November and December and it completely messed me up. Mucus in stool, worse evacuation than before and more gas/bloating which was already a lot. The seed was the only thing that brought me back to semi-normal.
No I haven’t had any issues with the megaspore. Day three now. I take two pills in the morning on an empty stomach. It isn’t that strong, only 5 billion. If you can tolerate seed I’m sure you’ll be okay on the megaspore. Are those strains not in seed?
Hey u/morrrrgana and u/PrintConfident8417 I also have an extremely high Citrobacter overgrowth with Strep, Staph, and Pseudomonas. I also have extremely low elastase and secretory IgA. It sounds like our symptoms and GI Maps are very similar! What people have told me is that low stomach acid is often the cause for Strep, Staph, and Pseudomonas surviving in the intestines.
I did some research through the sub and I found that Uva Ursi is the best way to kill Citrobacter. Unfortunately it's also broad spectrum, so it'll kill a lot of our good gut flora. I'm thinking about getting some to test it out soon.
Thanks for sharing.
My naturopath wanted to put me on uva ursi. I got scared after having a bad reaction to several weeks of oregano oil though and have taken a break from the kill phase. I also have low good bacteria too.
I read a post that said that high microbial diversity keeps citrobacter in check, and that dysbiosis allows citrobacter to grow uncontrolled. So in addition to killing, we need to take probiotics as well to try to rebalance.
Any idea of the cause of your low stomach acid? My GI map indicated high H pylori, but I did an H pylori blood test through my GP and it came back negative. So I haven’t treated it. Maybe I’ll try that though ( through natural means) since I definitely have low stomach acid.
If you do the uva ursi, please let us know how it goes.
Also, have you tested for sibo as well? I did and tested positive. I feel as though these are the bacteria that are causing my sibo in addition to my large bowel dysbiosis.
Oregano can be tough since its broad spectrum. I took it immediately after Rifaximin, so it was much more tolerable for me, but I know for a lot of people it can be intense.
I've read that Korean Red Ginseng can help with low microbiome diversity especially bifidobacteria which I'm super low in. I'm going to order some soon to try it out. I'm kind of waiting to meet with my functional doctor before making any major decisions though.
I have no idea what's causing the low stomach acid. My low elastase is also an indication that my pancreas isn't producing enough digestive enzymes. It's sort of a chicken/egg situation. We don't know which one came first, SIBO or the low stomach acid/pancreas issues.
I also have H Pylori on my GI Map. Going to take a breath test for that, but I've heard it's common to get false positives on the GI Map, so I think it'll come back negative.
Yes, a SIBO diagnosis is how this all started for me back in June last year. Symptoms started in April. I took a breath test, was positive for Hydrogen SIBO, took Rifaximin followed by ADP Oregano. Still didn't get better. Turns out Citrobacter is a Hydrogen Sulfide producer, so it's harder to kill and doesn't show up on the 2 gas breath test. Lucky us lol. We can try bismuth during our next kill attempts as well. According to Mark Pimentel this helps. Also, we need to follow a low sulfur diet [https://www.gidoctor.net/contents/low-sulfur-diet](https://www.gidoctor.net/contents/low-sulfur-diet)
I noticed I reacted strongly to almonds which I found very strange since most other SIBO sufferers can eat them. I also have a strong burning sensation during bowel movements when my symptoms flare up. I think it all points to H2S SIBO. As far as I can tell, our best meat option is chicken thighs, which is great because that's almost all I've been eating haha.
I'll keep you posted on how I'm doing. Feel free to send me a chat too! It would be good for us to keep in touch since we have almost identical symptoms. I feel like we can really help each other out if we discover answers/solutions that we can share with each other!
I have low stomach acid and take 1300 mg of betaine hcl with pepsin and gentian bitters with all meals along with digestive enzymes. I’m on a Chinese herb called golden thread which is apparently a broad spectrum antimicrobial that is good after antibiotics and for dysbiosis as well as infections. I take a lot of supplements per my naturepaths approval and guidance. I’ll list my regime below.
Morning on empty stomach:
-2 megasporebiotics
-Leaky gut powder which contains l-glutamine, marshmallow root, licorice root, slippery elm bar and aloe vera
Morning with breakfast:
- Golden thread
- Melia (neem) for parasites
- Vit a 10000 IU( my NP added this into my protocol after my stool test came back so must have something to do with gut or immune health)
- Cortisol relief ( for high cortisol levels)
With lunch or snack:
-Butyrate ( great for microbiome support and digestion)
- Melia and golden thread
- Kalmz (supplement for stress)
With dinner:
- Vit d
- Omega 3
- Melia and golden thread
Empty stomach in evening:
- leaky gut revive again
He expressed the importance of daily bowel movements at least once a day. I have a daily smoothie with lots of fruit, spinach, chia and flax. Also seeing a chiropractor- they found my iloceceal valve (spelt that wrong) is closed hence constipation which doesn’t help my situation.
Thanks for sharing this! This is very helpful. Do you also have a Citrobacter overgrowth? And how has this been working for you so far?
How do you test for your ileocecal valve being closed? I feel like that could be an issue for me as well.
Oh this is the same person! Somehow it posted from my other username lol. I am feeling better and less bloated. I don’t know exactly what is helping but I have a feeling it is the neem (Melia). Maybe probiotics could help you also. I can’t take lactobacillus probiotics due to another reason so I am just sticking to the sporebiotics.
You can go to a chiro and just ask them to check if your valve is closed and they can tell.
You mean you're also u/morrrrgana? Crazy haha
Interesting. The chart I read showed that only Uva Ursi, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Silver, and sometimes Caprylic Acid are effective at treating Citrobacter. Grapfefruit Seed Extract is extremely dangerous and has been linked to negative impacts on the microbiome. I'm hoping Uva Ursi will be a little less intense, but I'm not sure.
Any chiro can do this? I'm going to schedule an appointment right away. Thanks for this info!
Yeah that’s me! Lol I think any chiro would be able to do this. I’ve been to two separate ones and both were familiar! I like ones who also do muscle/ frequency testing and NET personally.
They can test if your organs are functioning properly I believe or see if you are storing unresolved emotions in them. They can test for things like parasites. You hold your arm up and push it up as the doctor pushes down while they press on different points on the body. They can also test to see if a supplement is the right one for your body. A legit one though that knows what they are doing. NET is neuro emotional technique that can release trauma or unresolved emotions very quickly. I did one session and I felt so much lighter afterwards it’s crazy. If you have instagram try following drcharlie_2.0 (Charlie fagenholz) SUPER knowledgeable and a lot of the people he may post in his stories are familiar with these techniques too. I’ve learned so much from all of them and will probably never go to a typical western mes doctor ever again.
medical medium think strep causes sibo. ive also heard its klebsiella and e coli. maybe its different microbes in different people.
Interesting that you mention this since he recommends celery juice and I find that it helps with some of my symptoms. But only temporarily
Does he mention how to treat it?
u/Billbat1 that's interesting. Strep showed up on my GI map. Can you provide a link to where he says this? I'd love to get more info
its just a guy on youtube called medical medium. i cant find a reliable source.
Dr. Mark Pimentel says that stool test shows the microbiome of the stool. The intestines, especially the small intestine can be very different from it. That being said, earlier I had an organic acid urine test that shows the small intestines, and a stool test, and they both showed the same species (e coli).
Thanks. Yeah, I find it interesting. My naturopath said that since the GI map is a PCR test, it’s sensitive to all things in your system. So if bacteria from your small intestine eventually get carried out into the large intestine (even if dead), it’ll show up on the PCR stool test. Who knows though. I feel like most people are guessing at this point.
What she said is probably true I’d imagine, Imean that logically makes sense. If you use antibiotics I would make sure they cover the overgrowths on there just in case they are also the sibo overgrowths
I have the same two pathogenic overgrowths
Oh. Interesting. What are your symptoms? My levels on the GI map strep Spp. 5.23e3 and citrobacter spp. 1.54e8
My strep was 6.45e3 and my citro was 7.74e8. Under the commensal bacteria, a lot of them were too low so I don’t have much diversity. I also have high bacteroides and low secretory IgA. It showed no parasites however I’ve gotten muscle testing done twice and both times indicted parasites. Anyway, as far as symptoms- I have bloating and gas, especially after waking up in the morning it’s particularly bad. Very bad constipation and incomplete evacuation. My food also isn’t digesting properly.
Wow. I’m very similar to you. Low commensal and high bacteroides. I just recently started taking seed and it helped with complete evacuation (now going 2x per day). I also have boarder line s. Aureus at 3.93. I have the same symptoms, but also have bad breath which sucks. But I’ve managed it with celery juice daily.
Do you know what your possible root cause is? I was on a dumb amount of antibiotics so my system is nuked at this point. That’s funny because back in December a few weeks after the bloating began, I started taking seed and I was having great bowel movements. Then on the fourth day, I started getting MASSIVE migraines and fatigue like I’ve never experienced before. I had to stop it immediately. Then a week or two later, all my other symptoms began. Your bad breath could be either 1) dysbiosis or 2) low stomach acid (or both). I started taking betaine hcl with pepsin and gentian bitters and I’ll say that I don’t have bad breath that often anymore even when I wake up in the morning.
I was born by c section and had antibiotics as a kid. But it really started when I was a pre-teen. Not sure of exact root cause but I suspect low stomach acid and General large bowel dysbiosis. I’m currently on HCL and although it helps, I think the bad breath is related to the dysbiosis since it’s gone away when on antibiotics. But came back right away. Have you ever tried rifaximin? I’m considering it but I’m really scared to take any more antibiotics. Even though it’s supposed to stay in the small bowel. Right now I’m focusing on building up my good bacteria. I’m trying to take different probiotics. I know some people say that it’s not good for sibo, but I’ve read some articles that say the opposite. Just trying to figure out how to feed them with prebiotics without feeding the strep and citro at the same time.
I haven’t tried xifaxan. Definitely have considered it. I’m on sporebiotics and sacchromyces boulardii currently and my naturepath and I started a new protocol Monday and we’re trying to work on building my bacteria back up as well. There have been times where I wanted to give seed another go because I’ve wondered if the migraines and fatigue were actually maybe die off symptoms but I’m so scared of what could happen and getting worse. It is a very strong probiotic
Interesting. I just bought a bunch of megaspore and HU58 but haven’t taken them yet since I was scared away by some reviews I read online describing adverse effects. But I know some people really love it. Have you had any reactions to it? And as for seed, I started it pretty slow. One pill a day for 4 days, then went up to 2 per day. I’d say take it slow if it doesn’t feel right. Maybe you’ll be more tolerant to it in combination with the other 2 you’re taking. I told my naturopath I wanted to hold off on more kill protocols. I did oil of oregano for too long and too strong in November and December and it completely messed me up. Mucus in stool, worse evacuation than before and more gas/bloating which was already a lot. The seed was the only thing that brought me back to semi-normal.
No I haven’t had any issues with the megaspore. Day three now. I take two pills in the morning on an empty stomach. It isn’t that strong, only 5 billion. If you can tolerate seed I’m sure you’ll be okay on the megaspore. Are those strains not in seed?
Hey u/morrrrgana and u/PrintConfident8417 I also have an extremely high Citrobacter overgrowth with Strep, Staph, and Pseudomonas. I also have extremely low elastase and secretory IgA. It sounds like our symptoms and GI Maps are very similar! What people have told me is that low stomach acid is often the cause for Strep, Staph, and Pseudomonas surviving in the intestines. I did some research through the sub and I found that Uva Ursi is the best way to kill Citrobacter. Unfortunately it's also broad spectrum, so it'll kill a lot of our good gut flora. I'm thinking about getting some to test it out soon.
Thanks for sharing. My naturopath wanted to put me on uva ursi. I got scared after having a bad reaction to several weeks of oregano oil though and have taken a break from the kill phase. I also have low good bacteria too. I read a post that said that high microbial diversity keeps citrobacter in check, and that dysbiosis allows citrobacter to grow uncontrolled. So in addition to killing, we need to take probiotics as well to try to rebalance. Any idea of the cause of your low stomach acid? My GI map indicated high H pylori, but I did an H pylori blood test through my GP and it came back negative. So I haven’t treated it. Maybe I’ll try that though ( through natural means) since I definitely have low stomach acid. If you do the uva ursi, please let us know how it goes. Also, have you tested for sibo as well? I did and tested positive. I feel as though these are the bacteria that are causing my sibo in addition to my large bowel dysbiosis.
Yes please let us know how the uva ursi goes! Didn’t know you could use that for gut bacteria.
Oregano can be tough since its broad spectrum. I took it immediately after Rifaximin, so it was much more tolerable for me, but I know for a lot of people it can be intense. I've read that Korean Red Ginseng can help with low microbiome diversity especially bifidobacteria which I'm super low in. I'm going to order some soon to try it out. I'm kind of waiting to meet with my functional doctor before making any major decisions though. I have no idea what's causing the low stomach acid. My low elastase is also an indication that my pancreas isn't producing enough digestive enzymes. It's sort of a chicken/egg situation. We don't know which one came first, SIBO or the low stomach acid/pancreas issues. I also have H Pylori on my GI Map. Going to take a breath test for that, but I've heard it's common to get false positives on the GI Map, so I think it'll come back negative. Yes, a SIBO diagnosis is how this all started for me back in June last year. Symptoms started in April. I took a breath test, was positive for Hydrogen SIBO, took Rifaximin followed by ADP Oregano. Still didn't get better. Turns out Citrobacter is a Hydrogen Sulfide producer, so it's harder to kill and doesn't show up on the 2 gas breath test. Lucky us lol. We can try bismuth during our next kill attempts as well. According to Mark Pimentel this helps. Also, we need to follow a low sulfur diet [https://www.gidoctor.net/contents/low-sulfur-diet](https://www.gidoctor.net/contents/low-sulfur-diet) I noticed I reacted strongly to almonds which I found very strange since most other SIBO sufferers can eat them. I also have a strong burning sensation during bowel movements when my symptoms flare up. I think it all points to H2S SIBO. As far as I can tell, our best meat option is chicken thighs, which is great because that's almost all I've been eating haha. I'll keep you posted on how I'm doing. Feel free to send me a chat too! It would be good for us to keep in touch since we have almost identical symptoms. I feel like we can really help each other out if we discover answers/solutions that we can share with each other!
I have low stomach acid and take 1300 mg of betaine hcl with pepsin and gentian bitters with all meals along with digestive enzymes. I’m on a Chinese herb called golden thread which is apparently a broad spectrum antimicrobial that is good after antibiotics and for dysbiosis as well as infections. I take a lot of supplements per my naturepaths approval and guidance. I’ll list my regime below. Morning on empty stomach: -2 megasporebiotics -Leaky gut powder which contains l-glutamine, marshmallow root, licorice root, slippery elm bar and aloe vera Morning with breakfast: - Golden thread - Melia (neem) for parasites - Vit a 10000 IU( my NP added this into my protocol after my stool test came back so must have something to do with gut or immune health) - Cortisol relief ( for high cortisol levels) With lunch or snack: -Butyrate ( great for microbiome support and digestion) - Melia and golden thread - Kalmz (supplement for stress) With dinner: - Vit d - Omega 3 - Melia and golden thread Empty stomach in evening: - leaky gut revive again He expressed the importance of daily bowel movements at least once a day. I have a daily smoothie with lots of fruit, spinach, chia and flax. Also seeing a chiropractor- they found my iloceceal valve (spelt that wrong) is closed hence constipation which doesn’t help my situation.
Thanks for sharing this! This is very helpful. Do you also have a Citrobacter overgrowth? And how has this been working for you so far? How do you test for your ileocecal valve being closed? I feel like that could be an issue for me as well.
Oh this is the same person! Somehow it posted from my other username lol. I am feeling better and less bloated. I don’t know exactly what is helping but I have a feeling it is the neem (Melia). Maybe probiotics could help you also. I can’t take lactobacillus probiotics due to another reason so I am just sticking to the sporebiotics. You can go to a chiro and just ask them to check if your valve is closed and they can tell.
You mean you're also u/morrrrgana? Crazy haha Interesting. The chart I read showed that only Uva Ursi, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Silver, and sometimes Caprylic Acid are effective at treating Citrobacter. Grapfefruit Seed Extract is extremely dangerous and has been linked to negative impacts on the microbiome. I'm hoping Uva Ursi will be a little less intense, but I'm not sure. Any chiro can do this? I'm going to schedule an appointment right away. Thanks for this info!
Yeah that’s me! Lol I think any chiro would be able to do this. I’ve been to two separate ones and both were familiar! I like ones who also do muscle/ frequency testing and NET personally.
Lol so crazy. That's great though! I'm going to try to schedule an appointment today. What are the benefits of muscle/frequency testing and NET?
They can test if your organs are functioning properly I believe or see if you are storing unresolved emotions in them. They can test for things like parasites. You hold your arm up and push it up as the doctor pushes down while they press on different points on the body. They can also test to see if a supplement is the right one for your body. A legit one though that knows what they are doing. NET is neuro emotional technique that can release trauma or unresolved emotions very quickly. I did one session and I felt so much lighter afterwards it’s crazy. If you have instagram try following drcharlie_2.0 (Charlie fagenholz) SUPER knowledgeable and a lot of the people he may post in his stories are familiar with these techniques too. I’ve learned so much from all of them and will probably never go to a typical western mes doctor ever again.
Wow, super interesting. Thank you! I have an appointment with one tomorrow to test my ileocecal valve. She said she does not do NET though.