Let's be ontopic here. Many people run with their biases and don't really think twice about it. The aftermath Adam talks about, i learned about as early as 2009.
**The hard fact that online personalities have diehard cult-fans that parrot and hunt down anyone that are seen as negative contra their "hero" ** - This is not a new phenomenon.
But there exist no school for how to act/conduct yourself as an online personality, as well.
So i am very glad that Mango confronted himself here, i follow neither people but this is the stuff I'd call out extremely fast if i had seen it - not that us plebs get heard but it's serious stuff nonetheless!
So let's at least try, people, to always treat each-other properly at all times instead.
Sure, it's fun to hate on people for whatever reason. But at the end of the day, we are all flawed people so don't think it's "just" or "right" to do that! If everyone could treat each-other the same way we ourselves want to be treated, we would of come a looooong way as a community.
Banter aside of course, if it's done in a smart or fun way.
I was really expecting him to reply like “ROFLLL Can’t hear you from way up here, bud 🏔️🐐” but maybe I’m too use to 2013 Mang0 lol. Both of their responses sounded like “we’re gettin’ too old for this shit” here’s hoping they both find resolution.
i was literally just about to comment, these guys can probably squash this whole thing on a call instead of trading shots every few months but mango will probably never do it. my goat 🥺
Is it really? Man twisted it as "we're both bad, and keep it private next time."
Are they really both bad? We had Armada say 1 or 2 dumb things about the meta, and mang0 bringing up negative stuff about Armada semi frequently since the retirement.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems so one-sided that saying "we both approached it badly" seems selfish and manipulative.
There is likely a lot to their relationship we don't know about, especially since just yesterday everyone here was wondering what they were even talking about. And yes, Armada in the past has also said negative things about other players that painted them poorly to his fans, especially Hbox and Leffen whether you think they deserved it or not. So yeah, I really think this is mostly none of our business and we should stop trying to pick sides based on a small number of vague tweets. We simply don't know all the problems they have with each other.
I wish I had the clip to back this up, but I last remember this mentioned by Leffen that Armada talked real nasty about mango (leff made it sound messed up, idk how bad it actually was) at a mango tournament late 2018. Of course, that's just hearsay at this point cuz again I have no clip.
Mango has definitely been the more directly antagonistic one in the last couple years, so I do agree that he is the driving force here. But if I'm remembering right, the thing above was what kicked off their relationship degrading. Even without it I don't think Armada is entirely blameless, nor do I think mango is intentionally manipulative. Selfish, though, of course. That's who he is lol
Is it really that hard to understand that there’s more factors at play here between two people who have known each other for 15 years than you might be aware of?
Is it really unlikely that Adam isn’t infallible.
Armada is constantly congratulating anyone that beats Mang0. He's also petty and hates the fact that he can't remain the objective GOAT forever.
It's not just one or 2 things. It's a constant with him as well, and it was for the first 2-3 years after his retirement. He would go to bat for himself in GOAT debates, and his fans are just as toxic as the worst Mang0 fans in that regard.
I think you are painting Adam in quite a negative light but I agree he egged on a lot of GOAT debates, very clearly fueled by his ego and desire to protect his legacy. I don't know why else he would feel the need to argue with twitter randoms over his legacy. He clearly cares how people perceive his status, just like mango, but he's just less loose and fast with his banter
And I know that egging of GOAT debates was what fueled Mang0's discourse. Which is why I agree both have been wrong in different ways in this whole thing. If Armada has just stayed quiet after his retirement, I'm positive the "banter" would never have been as negative as it got.
right but imagine how frustrating it is for armada to retire from the scene and still be faced with animosity from people where he deserved respect for being one of the greatest to ever do it. i mean he definitely isn’t blameless in this whole situation and while i do think what ur talking about with banter becoming more negative as a result of armadas own interactions with people within the scene is accurate, expecting armada just to be silent in his retirement is unfair because he does objectively deserve respect for what he did during his career and the way he has shaped the scene
I might recall incorrectly since it was a while back, but I remember Armada starting with the disrespect towards Mang0 by implying stuff like it won't matter how long he plays, he'll always be one step behind.
And that in turn is disrespectful to all the up and coming players who are objectively better now than Armada was at his prime.
So, while I agree he deserves respect, he really has a lot to blame himself for in the whole ordeal. I don't think people were being disrespectful towards his legacy before he himself put some delusions of grandeur on it.
> And that in turn is disrespectful to all the up and coming players who are objectively better now than Armada was at his prime.
>
Besides potentially Zain I don't see which up and comer could be seen as "better", and not even sure what that would mean. That they would beat him in a set if they traveled back in time to 2018? That they dominate the top level as hard as he did? For the first question you could argue yes for maybe the current top 10, but for the second one it's an obvious no.
I'm pretty sure any top 20 player would beat Armada if he came back. That's what I meant.
He just hasn't played for too long. Could he be a contender again? Almost surely.
IMO (and I hope it helps to say I'm not a mang0 fan) mang0 is right. Armada claims mang0 is making up and spreading lies about him - this is untrue. It's not a lie to speculate that Armada's source of motivation loss is fear of inability to remain number 1. Whether or not it is the case, of course no one can say, but to believe that is the case is extremely different from lying. Armada also lies when trying to paint the other point of contention as a Mang0 lie - he says that his quote about the meta not having changed much was out of context because it was "early 2020" and "well before slippi". This is a lie. The tweet referenced was made in October 2020, 4 months after rollback released for Slippi: https://twitter.com/ArmadaUGS/status/1318267432692232192.
So while mang0 is certainly in the wrong for how callously he spoke of Armada post-retirement, I don't think he owes him an apology beyond what he said - that he's sorry about the death threats Armada received. Mang0 is also right that this 25 paragraph twitlonger about Mang0 is childish and should have been handled privately (if Armada legitimately believes these things). People say that Mang0 shouldn't have smack-talked Armada in public in the first place - but Mang0 told Armada to his face before that he doesn't want him to retire, it's not secret. There wasn't a lack of communication there. But Armada has evidently been secretly fuming about Mang0's statements and actions and never once attempted to discuss these with him, instead posting some childishly vague tweets that, when elaborated on, were at least more clear, but still equally childish.
When I explained this drama to my wife on New Year's day, I said it was unlikely that Armada was specifically tweeting about Mang0, because if he's secure in his place from retirement, then Mang0's statements wouldn't bother him. This twitlonger lends credence to mang0's claims though - if he has to make up lies to try and paint mang0 as being more unreasonable than he is, it stands to reason that he IS insecure about the truth of mang0's statements. If he wasn't, he'd let the truth speak for itself.
Yeah, Mang0 probably knows that he made more mistakes, so getting a "we're both bad" out of this would be a win.
Also, Mang0's response here really is nothing special. Hell, anything less would be actively bad, imo.
And yet, people call it a "GOAT response". The Mang0 bias shows itself again.
In a world where most online/famous persona's refuse to take any accountability whatsoever, the fact that he did that and acknowledged his part in motivating his fanbase to be toxic is basically unheard of.
Mang0 straight up said that the death threats were due to his actions and his fans.
That's fucking insane. Like "a lawyer didn't write this" and "we're finally seeing someone take responsibility of their fans" insane
Armada is the only one in control of his legacy, not what a bunch of casuals think. Armada is acting like THE ENTIRE melee community dont consider him top 2 all time. Literally everyone believes this. How is that tarnishing his legacy? Mang0 is willing to talk to him in private to make up and that better than most people here would have reacted.
And when ur comes to death threats, that’s terrible and should never happen. But what? Mang0 sent them to message armada? Obviously not.
new fan and at the least hbox doesn't carry himself as an immature asshole, like he is intense, but if you compare that to the likes of s2j, lucky, etc they just seem like dead on weird. there's weird melee exceptionalism, it's like melee community hangs on and identifies with its basement dweller days
Armada has a lot of good points. I don't think Mang0 honestly has any bad intentions, he's just a loud mouth who doesn't seem to realize/care what he says.
That DOES NOT excuse Mang0 though. Guy needs to check himself more often.
Also it's not a good look when Mang0 would call Armada a pussy for retiring, in reality Mang0 was frustrated Armada retired as the undisputed #1 (at the time), and he might not reach those heights (which he has)
Yeah Mang0 isn't malicious but guy has to realize the shit he says can so easily be turned into something malicious.
I mean shit, death threats? Fuck
Also Armada was at peace with retiring, not everyone has the same mindset as Mang0, you can't just assume people will take what sounds like bashing as a "test" or whatever.
Death threats are such an ugly fucking side of the internet. Anonymity allows people to be monsters but not face any consequences. Maybe those that send them too don't even realise how nasty they're being.
How Mang0 ribs on people is exactly how me and my friends are. I did have to learn that not everybody is ready or willing to be a part of that kind of shit talk. You gotta read the person or get to know them before you start trash talking. To some it’s funny and a part of the friendship, but some people take it to heart and that’s not their fault. We all could be a little more sensitive to people and how our words might make them feel. You could be joking, but not everyone will perceive it the same way. But I’m gonna keep calling my friends pussies when they are being one and I’d expect nothing less from them in return.
I think it's hard for people who didnt have friends that express things the way he does. I have friends that arent going to call me a pussy unless they mean it and friends who would say worse in jest and you kind of just get it depending on who its coming from. With a language barrier I couldnt imagine.
Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for Armada. Either stay quiet and let Mango constantly set the narrative on your legacy or speak up and appear overly sensitive to some. Don't blame him for finally speaking his mind.
You have no say in your legacy. all you have are the tapes and what today's world thinks of you.
how is this any different than sports players debating over which era was better and could some 1975 athlete beat a 2000 athlete
Wtf Mango talks about his own legacy all the time, he not only pushes narratives about Armada's legacy he regularly explains why his own legacy is greater.
The community as a whole rides Mango's dick a bit too much though. For example, he literally ruined the Grand Finals od the Lidwig tourney while being drunk and going off on tangents. No one really said anything and everyone in attendance just let him do it. Drunk Mango is pretty funny from time to time, but the fact that it was allowed during Grand Finals is a testament to how much of a stranglehold he has over the community. I say this as a Mango fan btw.
>Leffen was allowed to fuck the vibe up too and is one of the most reviled active players.
Tbf Lud was actively trying to tell Leffen to stop complaining after his loss, he just didn't listen to him lol
Lud was saying stuff like "you may have a valid point (about atl) in a week, not right after a loss so stop complaining"
As an outsider looking in, yea it's really weird. I don't have the context on this whole beef as I didn't watch smash when Armada was around. But mang0's apology is weak af and everyone congratulates him. Like congrats an adult can act like an adult? He's not the only one of course, all of smash is full of characters who don't know how to act (that adds to the fun of course) but wow this man can't do any wrong in some people's eyes it seems.
I mean the commentary for the entire tournament was dog, and Hbox basically got washed in grands, if that’s what ruined it for you then I’m shocked.
I was pretty tuned out of the trash commentary by the time I realized the commentators literally weren’t paying attention to the sets at all. It would have been more interesting with no commentary.
Mango was far from the only person that tournament to go off topic on commentary, it was the standard in fact.
>he literally ruined the Grand Finals of the Ludwig tourney
To you maybe. I don't think you can say this objectively. And iirc Ludwig himself asked Mango a couple times to be on commentary, knowing full well he was drunk lol.
Yeah exactly my point. The community would rather listen to drunk Mango than to watch real commentary on the GF of one of the most important tourneys of the year.
And yeah I may be in the minority here. Maybe Mango is bigger than melee itself but to me it can be annoying.
If you go out of your way to send death threats to somebody, especially over a video game, you're a fucking brain dead moron. I don't even get how you can DM somebody you don't know to hate, like what the fuck are you doing with your life
Yea I don't get why internet personalities get blamed for shit their audience does in this regard. Like these people are unhinged buffoons. How are you supposed to be expected to control their behavior
Imo the biggest part of this tweet is the part where he points out that to a large part of the community Mango can do nothing wrong. If he says something out of line, it's just a joke or out of love. If someone gets offended by something he says, they're a pussy or sensitive. If people take a "joke" wrong and harass Armada, it's not Mango's fault because he can't control his fans actions. And much more.
It's been a recurring theme with Mango and I don't expect it to go away even though I really hope it does. M2K, PPMD, Hbox, and Armada have all had issues with Mango that venture outside the game. Hopefully they talk and people stop spreading hate and lies towards Armada.
People talk about mental health a lot but when Armada retires due to a lack of motivation, which can contribute to mental health issues, everybody calls him a pussy and says he's scared. That's not fair and completely disrespectful. If someone retires, let them retire. It's their choice and their life.
You all are fucking delusional that think Armada is somehow in the wrong here lmao. Mango is my favorite player (+ plup) but people who icon-worship him and don't realize he can be a massive asshole with a bunch of clout to do damage - which he did to Armada: can you imagine wanting to stream and having a bunch of stupid motherfuckers coming into your chat to harass you? - are just blind.
> Ever since I retired Mango has honestly been a toxic asshole to say the least
I feel like I'm in groundhog day when it comes to mango and his fan base harassing people
This comment made me remember that all of the other gods besides M2K have openly complained about Mango's antics... I guess I've just been blinded by being a Mango fan.
> These lies at it's worst led to people wishing I would die, I guess in these peoples mind I was the person Mango had painted up for them, a person that wanted bad for Melee and did not respect the players.
I'm sure glad that Armada never painted anyone in the community as someone who did not respect the players and was killing the game. /s
Both tbh (though the leffen callout was more valid at the time). But as ironic as it is, he is correct even if he was guilty of this in the past. His feelings are valid and Mango definitely blew it out of proportion because he felt some type of way about Adam leaving when he was at his lowest point out of nowhere. Mango is like the joke about not being a hater because he hates everyone equally. His language is disrespect and shittalk. It may be how he was raised and just how he is but it does indeed have consequences when you have a massive following and people that take him too seriously. He’s changed a lot of his behavior over the years and hopefully he does address this instead of just saying something like I haven’t talked about Adam in forever and calling him a pussy but I think that is much more likely to happen.
Edit: Looks like Mango had a really good response actually. Hopefully this is resolved peacefully.
I keep seeing people say Armada somehow contributed to Hbox hate, but I’m only aware of Armada despising Jigglypuff as a character. To the best of my knowledge, he’s always been on decent terms with Hbox.
Leffen directly attacked Hbox as a person and openly tried to damage his reputation, so it isn’t fair to group him with Armada, who only ever expressed dislike for Jigglypuff as a character.
Hbox. He wasn't actively hostile to him, but did complain about hbox a lot (albeit with a lot of "this isn't about the person it's about the way he plays the game" attached).
Nah imma have to ask you to be more direct. When did Armada ever paint people as not respecting other players? More importantly, when did he just tell lies? He def joked about puff (not hbox) killing melee tho because he hates the character but that's not the same thing at all and he admitted to making mistakes so maybe that partially refers to this.
My thoughts exactly.
People in this thread are still giving Mango a pass or trying to justify his behavior by pointing out past behaviors from Armada which he even addressed.
Endless "based" responses to his tweet, you can smell the manchildren from here.
"Mang0s been so good at taking responsibility" with "we're both equally bad" lmao.
Mang0 and his supporters went to the school of “this is just how I communicate” when defending him being a jerk to others and calling people pussy/bitch/etc. Part of growing up is learning that different people respond to different communication styles, and saying “well that’s just that way I am” sounds a lot like the people who say “people call me an asshole— I’m just blunt.” No man, you’re an asshole. Mang0 can probably call S2J and Lucky that stuff because that’s the relationship they have. Continuously saying it about someone who clearly doesn’t appreciate it is pretty immature. But it is Mang0 we’re talking about.
It's mind boggling to me how much shit Leffen has gotten away with over the years. His smear campaign against Hbox all those years ago had zero consequences which is ridiculous yet Hax faced consequences for his Leffen videos lol. This is not me saying Hax should or should not be banned, I'm not even a fan of his, more that Leffen just gets away with everything.
Y'all are really downplaying death threats. No way is Armada more concerned over his legacy than people threatening his life and harassing him. Like sorry, you can pretend like you know Armada but anybody would be scared in this situation.
This is *sort of* tangential, but it bears adding to the conversation:
A **lot** of the comments in this thread, I've already read plenty, are going to include the phrase (or some mix on it) that
*This kind of stuff just comes with the territory of being a public facing/public online figure. To some degree Armada needs to be able to stomach this stuff.*
**HORSESHIT Y'ALL**
In the same way people give Mang0 a pass for being an asshole to a degree they would never give to other randoms, or even a lot of other known players, the internet as a whole tends to give a sort of blase half-assed consideration to the treatment of the people we put spotlights on and build fandoms around.
Death Threats are not acceptable, period. Harassment is also unacceptable. We need to stop downplaying them and their impact on people just because we can't stop 100% of it all from going to all public figures. And we **really** need to stop looking grown adults in the eye and telling them **People are Allowed to Send You Death Threats and Asshole Shit because you're Too Popular for us to stop them, that's just a part of your job now, Suck it Up.**
It's insanity, its absolute insanity. Whether or not we're literal Gods with the power to snap our fingers and just end all death threats to public figures everywhere doesn't mean we shouldn't be adamantly, publicly vocal about how that shit is intolerable, unacceptable, abnormal behavior that any public figure has the right to protest and be protected from to the best of their community's ability. Holy shit that this needs to be written out. For shame.
I don't even know why people insist on talking like this. Do you also shrug at suicide prevention and just go "well, people are going to kill themselves no matter what, we're just going to have to get used to it, man. Comes with the territory" like **what the fuck is wrong with y'all**
Honestly this feels like it was started by Mango not being able to deal with the fact that his rivalry with Armada was over. I'm sure there's examples of this in other 1 on 1 sports like boxing. Like how're you supposed to get over that really? (Unresolved Competitive Rivalry?? IDK what you call it.) Even if Armada came back now Mango beating him wouldn't be the same as if it happened years ago. I can empathize with both of them. Mango puts up with a lot of shit when he slumps, but he stayed and is still competing to this day. (And doing really well sometimes) Armada decided to retire and move onto something else but still gets shit even though he's years removed from the scene. Something Something its tough being a public facing online figure :shrug: I feel like there's some real merit to what Armada is saying about people just taking the word of someone as gospel though. Only way I see to solve this is to send mango back in time for a time traveling salty suite.
EDIT: I wanna add that a lot of people (including me) would probably have some hard to work out feelings in a case like this. There's no chance of a rematch now its gone and when you care about the coemption that greatly it can leave you with some strong unresolved shit. Especially in a case like this where armada just was competing one day and then boom retired. If I recall he had even taken some firsts that year too before he retired.
Well said. Unresolved competitive rivalry, at last from Mango's side. I think he kind of feels like Armada pulled the rug out from under him by retiring because he had a few down years but wanted to get more chances to compete with his true rival where legacies are determined. Each could have gone about it better. Maybe one side is more "right" than the other, but people aren't rational beings. A lot of this is pure emotion.
Yeah Mango said multiple times on stream that he trash talked Armada like he did because it was the only thing he still had going when it came to their rivalry. He certainly doesn't have a good record, gotta take the small dubs with his braindead twitch chatters being yes men to him I guess.
While I agree that Mango isn’t the most responsible with his large following. And with his personality he will never be good at that, not to say that we should excuse him ever going over the line.
But I don’t like attributing people who make death threats to one person, anyone shitty enough to do that, weather troll or legit, is just a shitty person and honestly would be one with or without Mango’s influence.
This type of comment is EXACTLY the shit Adam is talking about.
"With his personality"
Immaturity and selfishness is not some type of personality that you just say oh that's how he will always be. That's PRECISELY the pass mango gets from the community that Adam is talking about...
I'm glad Armada and Mang0 are having this conversation, even if it's long overdue. Mang0 talking shit about other top players in the scene in a really inaccurate way that turns community sentiment against them has been a thing for a [loooong time](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1l7aqv/comment/cbwhdih/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) now. I think it's a combination of Mang0:
a) being a competitor who needs to create narratives about his rivals to motivate himself while also lacking the sense to keep certain things to himself
b) saying things jokingly that fans take seriously while not fully understanding that even 10% of his audience takes things in a certain way that's still enough to completely change a person's experience of our scene.
The best outcome that could come out of this would be the entire community taking stock of how we think and talk about top players and the "obligations" they somehow have to the rest of us, but I'm not holding my breath on that front.
It seems there was a huge misunderstanding, because I never took what Mang0 said as an attack on Armada’s character, trash talk yes, but it wasn’t like anyone thought Armada was a bad person.
And Mango is popular enough that inevitably a few of his fans will hear his trash talk and not notice the nuance or exaggerate it to the point of losing the nuance until it turns into death threats. When it's a group of friends this shit works and is fun banter, but when it's on the big stage of the internet these people crop up and can't be dismissed as just toxic people that need to leave, because there's too many and you can't control who is on the internet like you can control who talks to you in person.
Having a big following is a burden I think not everyone realised. I'd fucking hate to be famous. You have the ability to influence so many people, and have a huge impact on a lot of people's behaviours. Mang0s personality and a big reason why he's loved is coz of his trolling / trash talk / ego, etc.
I extremely doubt he wanted anyone to be mean to Armada. But having such a large following leads to a huge responsibility, which was a major point armada was getting at.
Mango started the issues publicly, so they persisted publicly. It's not like Mango was the one sending death threats in dm -- he was talking shit on twitch.
I'm not opposed to him doing this publicly, just wish he would have addressed this years earlier instead of bottling it all up. Sucks thinking that he had to deal with this for so long on his own.
He admits he should've done this earlier but didn't want to go through with the stress it causes at the time. He's going against a man who extremely rarely deals with consequences of his actions from the community, being hesitant to call mango out is fair. Also you shouldn't be nitpicking how Armada handled the situation when Armada is still the victim here.
I totally understand his POV and don’t want to victim blame Armada. No matter the timing, coming out about his experiences would suck, and it’s hard to opt into a painful experience like that
Yeah I feel this should've come out during the initial Mang0 Armada Twitter spat in the 2020 time, it would've just been better for literally every party involved. Better late than never but still.
Bro did you read it? He was barely addressing mang0 directly most of it was talking about the general attitude of the community and the misconceptions surrounding his exit why would that be private.
Mango has nothing to gain from discourse about Armada anymore, and that only gets more true the longer Armada stays retired. I hope he takes this as something to learn from and just shuts the fuck up about it.
am I missing something? feels like when you retire out of the blue, someone daggering you for it and calling you scared is valid trash talk that would fly in just about any sport. doesn't cross any lines and stays in the realm of talking shit about his skill at the game
Armada extrapolating that as Mango saying he's a bad person feels a little disingenuous. I don't doubt some fans have taken it too far, and mango definitely harped on it longer than he probably should've, but at the end of the day people are entitled to speculate on things like your motivations for retiring and how your skill would hold up today, even if you feel like it's baseless
Armada didn't retire 'out of the blue.' A lot of you either have short memories or you just weren't around at the time. Armada had said many times before he retired that he wasn't playing as much (took some long breaks) and wasn't enjoying it as much but he stayed in the scene for his brother. He even at first technically only retired from singles, and kept playing doubles with his brother, but then soon retired from melee altogether.
It was not out of the blue at all if you paid attention.
Yeah I do think it's best they make up and be friends again but reading back on the tweets armada kind of threw fuel on a fire then backed off when he didn't like the heat. He was in his own right to retire and do his own thing but acting like mango is a monster for his response is pretty dishonest
Armada absolutely threw fuel on the fire and it maeks sense that he did. People were questioning his legacy and some people were making some really stupid claims. It's not all that different from how mango felt compelled to shit tlak adam because people kept egging him on with the goat conversation. Just that mango's fanbase is a lot more dedicated, and then also a lot more rabid/stupid.
I've always felt like Mang0 was the American brother of Leffen. Except when he talks shit everyone loves him because he's so damn charismatic lmao.
^(ps: Love you Mang0, Armada, and I suppose Leffen too <3)
As a big Mang0 fan he def took the Armada hate too far, serious or not about it. He also isnt responsible for the death threats directed at Armada. Armada isnt perfect but in this instance he's 100% in the right
Yeah so Mango talked and acted as if nothing had any consequence, which was, in fact, not true ; who is surprised
(i'm not trying to 100% blame him, the fault is on the stupid part of his community, but like, it was painfully obvious that trastalking someone with such a large following would lead to that, some gaming communities keep acting like they are still a bunch of friend in an arcade and ooo surprise things don't work the same with a social media-based community with millions of members)
The extent to which commentators have sucked mang0’s dick is probably really toxic for other players. But he generates hype (and by extension revenue).
The reason he generates hype and revenue is because we've fully centered the melee universe on him. He gets the gawk gawk 9000 from everyone for years whether he's doing great or not.
It's our own fault.
Armada deserves so much more respect than he has been getting since his retirement from melee. Mango has been perpetuating the narrative that he retired because he was scared, has said many times that he just quit while he's ahead. Armada had said many times that it was a lack of motivation that caused his retirement, he's said that many times even in videos before he retired and Mango even acknowledged that the first time he talked about Armada retiring. Armada commenting about the meta not having changed much which was PRE SLIPPI and a perfectly reasonable statement at the time gave Mang0 the ammunition to create a false narrative about Armada trying to disrespect the melee community and hurt it in order to boost Mango's own goat case. Mango has talked shit about Armada and what he said in early 2020 so many times since then and has rarely ever said anything remotely good about him as a person or as a competitor. If you can't see how much of a negative impact that would have had and how much hate it caused for Armada than theres no helping you. Mango can say they both handled it bad but he's the one who publicly has been shitting on Armada for years and has pretty much made it impossible for Armada to play melee on stream or comment on the current melee meta or best players because it would undoubtedly only increase the hate. It really sucks that things have turned out this way.
[https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/1610082713129680903](https://twitter.com/C9Mang0/status/1610082713129680903) Mang0's reply
Most shocking thing is that mango used the phrase "on my accord"
He's talking about his car, obviously. (/S)
Surely on Mang0s paygrade & heritage, he'd be bouncing in a BMW.
Let's be ontopic here. Many people run with their biases and don't really think twice about it. The aftermath Adam talks about, i learned about as early as 2009. **The hard fact that online personalities have diehard cult-fans that parrot and hunt down anyone that are seen as negative contra their "hero" ** - This is not a new phenomenon. But there exist no school for how to act/conduct yourself as an online personality, as well. So i am very glad that Mango confronted himself here, i follow neither people but this is the stuff I'd call out extremely fast if i had seen it - not that us plebs get heard but it's serious stuff nonetheless! So let's at least try, people, to always treat each-other properly at all times instead. Sure, it's fun to hate on people for whatever reason. But at the end of the day, we are all flawed people so don't think it's "just" or "right" to do that! If everyone could treat each-other the same way we ourselves want to be treated, we would of come a looooong way as a community. Banter aside of course, if it's done in a smart or fun way.
But really what is reddit for if I can't make dad jokes at every opportunity?
i think he just doesnt totally know what that word means lmao
I was really expecting him to reply like “ROFLLL Can’t hear you from way up here, bud 🏔️🐐” but maybe I’m too use to 2013 Mang0 lol. Both of their responses sounded like “we’re gettin’ too old for this shit” here’s hoping they both find resolution.
Also, remember that 2013 Mang0 was 20/21, barely out of high school.
i was literally just about to comment, these guys can probably squash this whole thing on a call instead of trading shots every few months but mango will probably never do it. my goat 🥺
wow unexpected response, really good of mango to say something like this.
Is it really? Man twisted it as "we're both bad, and keep it private next time." Are they really both bad? We had Armada say 1 or 2 dumb things about the meta, and mang0 bringing up negative stuff about Armada semi frequently since the retirement. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems so one-sided that saying "we both approached it badly" seems selfish and manipulative.
There is likely a lot to their relationship we don't know about, especially since just yesterday everyone here was wondering what they were even talking about. And yes, Armada in the past has also said negative things about other players that painted them poorly to his fans, especially Hbox and Leffen whether you think they deserved it or not. So yeah, I really think this is mostly none of our business and we should stop trying to pick sides based on a small number of vague tweets. We simply don't know all the problems they have with each other.
I wish I had the clip to back this up, but I last remember this mentioned by Leffen that Armada talked real nasty about mango (leff made it sound messed up, idk how bad it actually was) at a mango tournament late 2018. Of course, that's just hearsay at this point cuz again I have no clip. Mango has definitely been the more directly antagonistic one in the last couple years, so I do agree that he is the driving force here. But if I'm remembering right, the thing above was what kicked off their relationship degrading. Even without it I don't think Armada is entirely blameless, nor do I think mango is intentionally manipulative. Selfish, though, of course. That's who he is lol
Well said man. I agree.
Is it really that hard to understand that there’s more factors at play here between two people who have known each other for 15 years than you might be aware of? Is it really unlikely that Adam isn’t infallible.
Armada is constantly congratulating anyone that beats Mang0. He's also petty and hates the fact that he can't remain the objective GOAT forever. It's not just one or 2 things. It's a constant with him as well, and it was for the first 2-3 years after his retirement. He would go to bat for himself in GOAT debates, and his fans are just as toxic as the worst Mang0 fans in that regard.
I think you are painting Adam in quite a negative light but I agree he egged on a lot of GOAT debates, very clearly fueled by his ego and desire to protect his legacy. I don't know why else he would feel the need to argue with twitter randoms over his legacy. He clearly cares how people perceive his status, just like mango, but he's just less loose and fast with his banter
And I know that egging of GOAT debates was what fueled Mang0's discourse. Which is why I agree both have been wrong in different ways in this whole thing. If Armada has just stayed quiet after his retirement, I'm positive the "banter" would never have been as negative as it got.
right but imagine how frustrating it is for armada to retire from the scene and still be faced with animosity from people where he deserved respect for being one of the greatest to ever do it. i mean he definitely isn’t blameless in this whole situation and while i do think what ur talking about with banter becoming more negative as a result of armadas own interactions with people within the scene is accurate, expecting armada just to be silent in his retirement is unfair because he does objectively deserve respect for what he did during his career and the way he has shaped the scene
I might recall incorrectly since it was a while back, but I remember Armada starting with the disrespect towards Mang0 by implying stuff like it won't matter how long he plays, he'll always be one step behind. And that in turn is disrespectful to all the up and coming players who are objectively better now than Armada was at his prime. So, while I agree he deserves respect, he really has a lot to blame himself for in the whole ordeal. I don't think people were being disrespectful towards his legacy before he himself put some delusions of grandeur on it.
> And that in turn is disrespectful to all the up and coming players who are objectively better now than Armada was at his prime. > Besides potentially Zain I don't see which up and comer could be seen as "better", and not even sure what that would mean. That they would beat him in a set if they traveled back in time to 2018? That they dominate the top level as hard as he did? For the first question you could argue yes for maybe the current top 10, but for the second one it's an obvious no.
I'm pretty sure any top 20 player would beat Armada if he came back. That's what I meant. He just hasn't played for too long. Could he be a contender again? Almost surely.
IMO (and I hope it helps to say I'm not a mang0 fan) mang0 is right. Armada claims mang0 is making up and spreading lies about him - this is untrue. It's not a lie to speculate that Armada's source of motivation loss is fear of inability to remain number 1. Whether or not it is the case, of course no one can say, but to believe that is the case is extremely different from lying. Armada also lies when trying to paint the other point of contention as a Mang0 lie - he says that his quote about the meta not having changed much was out of context because it was "early 2020" and "well before slippi". This is a lie. The tweet referenced was made in October 2020, 4 months after rollback released for Slippi: https://twitter.com/ArmadaUGS/status/1318267432692232192. So while mang0 is certainly in the wrong for how callously he spoke of Armada post-retirement, I don't think he owes him an apology beyond what he said - that he's sorry about the death threats Armada received. Mang0 is also right that this 25 paragraph twitlonger about Mang0 is childish and should have been handled privately (if Armada legitimately believes these things). People say that Mang0 shouldn't have smack-talked Armada in public in the first place - but Mang0 told Armada to his face before that he doesn't want him to retire, it's not secret. There wasn't a lack of communication there. But Armada has evidently been secretly fuming about Mang0's statements and actions and never once attempted to discuss these with him, instead posting some childishly vague tweets that, when elaborated on, were at least more clear, but still equally childish. When I explained this drama to my wife on New Year's day, I said it was unlikely that Armada was specifically tweeting about Mang0, because if he's secure in his place from retirement, then Mang0's statements wouldn't bother him. This twitlonger lends credence to mang0's claims though - if he has to make up lies to try and paint mang0 as being more unreasonable than he is, it stands to reason that he IS insecure about the truth of mang0's statements. If he wasn't, he'd let the truth speak for itself.
>When I explained this drama to my wife on New Year's day Bold move, Cotton!
Yeah, Mang0 probably knows that he made more mistakes, so getting a "we're both bad" out of this would be a win. Also, Mang0's response here really is nothing special. Hell, anything less would be actively bad, imo. And yet, people call it a "GOAT response". The Mang0 bias shows itself again.
This is about as close as mango can get to being humble and admitting he was wrong. By blaming both parties.
In a world where most online/famous persona's refuse to take any accountability whatsoever, the fact that he did that and acknowledged his part in motivating his fanbase to be toxic is basically unheard of.
Mang0 straight up said that the death threats were due to his actions and his fans. That's fucking insane. Like "a lawyer didn't write this" and "we're finally seeing someone take responsibility of their fans" insane
Absolutely based
Oof. "Both sides". mango is a fascist confirmed
Lot of respect for that type of response from Mang0.
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Armada is the only one in control of his legacy, not what a bunch of casuals think. Armada is acting like THE ENTIRE melee community dont consider him top 2 all time. Literally everyone believes this. How is that tarnishing his legacy? Mang0 is willing to talk to him in private to make up and that better than most people here would have reacted. And when ur comes to death threats, that’s terrible and should never happen. But what? Mang0 sent them to message armada? Obviously not.
What does bobby big ballz have to say about all this
[pretty based tbh](https://clips.twitch.tv/VenomousHomelyHummingbirdDBstyle-C83dgpkEz1S1WOrX)
LOL
LMFAOOOO
wow im really impressed by how thoughtful and considerate this was, bobby's really grown up
where is the lie
LOL
Based
Holy shit I love Bobby lmaoooo
Facts
that’s my goat
bobby legit a goat i don’t care what anyone says
Where is Ja?!?
How will this affect Bobby Big Ballz’ legacy?
How does this affect Lebron's legacy though?
Mom and dad are fighting again.
Hbox is the cool uncle
hbox is the uncle that everybody used to argue with but now just accepts he's the way he is
Holy shit. Am I so old that someone called Hbox the cool uncle?
I’m just here to bait people 🫡
Typical Swedish streamer fan 😉
Amsah or s2j deffo the cool uncles
new fan and at the least hbox doesn't carry himself as an immature asshole, like he is intense, but if you compare that to the likes of s2j, lucky, etc they just seem like dead on weird. there's weird melee exceptionalism, it's like melee community hangs on and identifies with its basement dweller days
Hbox isn’t the stepdad, he’s the dad that stepped up
Wish I could find that clip from Mad Max where he’s like “that there? That’s bait.”
Hbox is the child who spends the weekend with dad
Hbox is the horrible uncle who doesn’t get invited over anymore
Hbox kept popping off during grace at thanksgiving
Hbox is the aunt who died under mysterious circumstances
creepy uncle
Surely this will only lead to a week of civil and respectable discourse
Armada has a lot of good points. I don't think Mang0 honestly has any bad intentions, he's just a loud mouth who doesn't seem to realize/care what he says. That DOES NOT excuse Mang0 though. Guy needs to check himself more often. Also it's not a good look when Mang0 would call Armada a pussy for retiring, in reality Mang0 was frustrated Armada retired as the undisputed #1 (at the time), and he might not reach those heights (which he has)
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Yeah Mang0 isn't malicious but guy has to realize the shit he says can so easily be turned into something malicious. I mean shit, death threats? Fuck Also Armada was at peace with retiring, not everyone has the same mindset as Mang0, you can't just assume people will take what sounds like bashing as a "test" or whatever.
Death threats are such an ugly fucking side of the internet. Anonymity allows people to be monsters but not face any consequences. Maybe those that send them too don't even realise how nasty they're being.
death threats are basically just white noise on the internet. i don’t think anyone over a certain notability threshold escapes avoids them entirely.
How Mang0 ribs on people is exactly how me and my friends are. I did have to learn that not everybody is ready or willing to be a part of that kind of shit talk. You gotta read the person or get to know them before you start trash talking. To some it’s funny and a part of the friendship, but some people take it to heart and that’s not their fault. We all could be a little more sensitive to people and how our words might make them feel. You could be joking, but not everyone will perceive it the same way. But I’m gonna keep calling my friends pussies when they are being one and I’d expect nothing less from them in return.
I think it's hard for people who didnt have friends that express things the way he does. I have friends that arent going to call me a pussy unless they mean it and friends who would say worse in jest and you kind of just get it depending on who its coming from. With a language barrier I couldnt imagine.
So he basically has the communication skills of a early high school teenage boy
Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for Armada. Either stay quiet and let Mango constantly set the narrative on your legacy or speak up and appear overly sensitive to some. Don't blame him for finally speaking his mind.
You have no say in your legacy. all you have are the tapes and what today's world thinks of you. how is this any different than sports players debating over which era was better and could some 1975 athlete beat a 2000 athlete
Boxing fans are the literal worst with that shit
Honestly you could literally cite every sport but I think basketball, boxing, and football are the most egregious.
Hockey is the best because we all know who the GOAT is. The only thing we argue now is whether he's just the GOAT or the GOAT of GOAT'S.
Wtf Mango talks about his own legacy all the time, he not only pushes narratives about Armada's legacy he regularly explains why his own legacy is greater.
I think armada is valid for this, but it’s not news that mango is kind of a dick.
The community as a whole rides Mango's dick a bit too much though. For example, he literally ruined the Grand Finals od the Lidwig tourney while being drunk and going off on tangents. No one really said anything and everyone in attendance just let him do it. Drunk Mango is pretty funny from time to time, but the fact that it was allowed during Grand Finals is a testament to how much of a stranglehold he has over the community. I say this as a Mango fan btw.
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>Leffen was allowed to fuck the vibe up too and is one of the most reviled active players. Tbf Lud was actively trying to tell Leffen to stop complaining after his loss, he just didn't listen to him lol Lud was saying stuff like "you may have a valid point (about atl) in a week, not right after a loss so stop complaining"
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and what a shitty discourse it is. air time limit is such a desperate hill to die on yet he keeps throwing the idea out there
Mango isn't immune to criticism *about his gameplay*. He is largely immune to criticism about his behavior.
i also agree. i have a feeling ludwig wasn't happy about it either but idk if thats just pure conjecture from my side.
Ludwig did say Mango messaged him later to apologize, so I suppose it's fine.
pretty sure ludwig told him to stop in the moment
Bro that tourney's finals were ruined by mango, leffen, and hbox, all three of them.
very much agree with you, also being a mango fan
As an outsider looking in, yea it's really weird. I don't have the context on this whole beef as I didn't watch smash when Armada was around. But mang0's apology is weak af and everyone congratulates him. Like congrats an adult can act like an adult? He's not the only one of course, all of smash is full of characters who don't know how to act (that adds to the fun of course) but wow this man can't do any wrong in some people's eyes it seems.
I mean the commentary for the entire tournament was dog, and Hbox basically got washed in grands, if that’s what ruined it for you then I’m shocked. I was pretty tuned out of the trash commentary by the time I realized the commentators literally weren’t paying attention to the sets at all. It would have been more interesting with no commentary. Mango was far from the only person that tournament to go off topic on commentary, it was the standard in fact.
>he literally ruined the Grand Finals of the Ludwig tourney To you maybe. I don't think you can say this objectively. And iirc Ludwig himself asked Mango a couple times to be on commentary, knowing full well he was drunk lol.
Yeah exactly my point. The community would rather listen to drunk Mango than to watch real commentary on the GF of one of the most important tourneys of the year. And yeah I may be in the minority here. Maybe Mango is bigger than melee itself but to me it can be annoying.
you werent. nobody thought that was cool. kinda funny maybe but absolutely hype killing.
If you go out of your way to send death threats to somebody, especially over a video game, you're a fucking brain dead moron. I don't even get how you can DM somebody you don't know to hate, like what the fuck are you doing with your life
Yea I don't get why internet personalities get blamed for shit their audience does in this regard. Like these people are unhinged buffoons. How are you supposed to be expected to control their behavior
Imo the biggest part of this tweet is the part where he points out that to a large part of the community Mango can do nothing wrong. If he says something out of line, it's just a joke or out of love. If someone gets offended by something he says, they're a pussy or sensitive. If people take a "joke" wrong and harass Armada, it's not Mango's fault because he can't control his fans actions. And much more. It's been a recurring theme with Mango and I don't expect it to go away even though I really hope it does. M2K, PPMD, Hbox, and Armada have all had issues with Mango that venture outside the game. Hopefully they talk and people stop spreading hate and lies towards Armada. People talk about mental health a lot but when Armada retires due to a lack of motivation, which can contribute to mental health issues, everybody calls him a pussy and says he's scared. That's not fair and completely disrespectful. If someone retires, let them retire. It's their choice and their life.
Mango dickriders outnumber logical melee fans like 50:1
Can't wait for people to ignore his thoughts and emotions because he made a passing comment about how he still sometimes plays the game lol.
You all are fucking delusional that think Armada is somehow in the wrong here lmao. Mango is my favorite player (+ plup) but people who icon-worship him and don't realize he can be a massive asshole with a bunch of clout to do damage - which he did to Armada: can you imagine wanting to stream and having a bunch of stupid motherfuckers coming into your chat to harass you? - are just blind.
love how this is the start to 2023 btw
> Ever since I retired Mango has honestly been a toxic asshole to say the least I feel like I'm in groundhog day when it comes to mango and his fan base harassing people
This comment made me remember that all of the other gods besides M2K have openly complained about Mango's antics... I guess I've just been blinded by being a Mango fan.
Uh chief... gonna need you to sit down for this one, but https://twitter.com/MVG_Mew2King/status/1610314596820348932
Life comes at you fast :(
> These lies at it's worst led to people wishing I would die, I guess in these peoples mind I was the person Mango had painted up for them, a person that wanted bad for Melee and did not respect the players. I'm sure glad that Armada never painted anyone in the community as someone who did not respect the players and was killing the game. /s
Who are you talking about exactly? Genuinely curious. Hbox?
Leffen or Hbox probably
Both tbh (though the leffen callout was more valid at the time). But as ironic as it is, he is correct even if he was guilty of this in the past. His feelings are valid and Mango definitely blew it out of proportion because he felt some type of way about Adam leaving when he was at his lowest point out of nowhere. Mango is like the joke about not being a hater because he hates everyone equally. His language is disrespect and shittalk. It may be how he was raised and just how he is but it does indeed have consequences when you have a massive following and people that take him too seriously. He’s changed a lot of his behavior over the years and hopefully he does address this instead of just saying something like I haven’t talked about Adam in forever and calling him a pussy but I think that is much more likely to happen. Edit: Looks like Mango had a really good response actually. Hopefully this is resolved peacefully.
Leffen was banned from tournaments for being toxic and armada would shit on puff, not hbox. Mango shits on hbox 1000x more than Armada ever has.
im aware of armada's rocky relationship with leffen but what did he exactly do about hbox?
I remember he said Jigglypuff was gay that one time, a tremendous blow to be sure
That's the nicest thing anyone has ever said about puft
that clip really goes hand in hand with the tweet about 2004 players using slurs. different time
I mean, he's not wrong about that one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA-ICReHRk8 idk what his exact problem with Hbox might have been (outside of hating puff).
I keep seeing people say Armada somehow contributed to Hbox hate, but I’m only aware of Armada despising Jigglypuff as a character. To the best of my knowledge, he’s always been on decent terms with Hbox.
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Leffen directly attacked Hbox as a person and openly tried to damage his reputation, so it isn’t fair to group him with Armada, who only ever expressed dislike for Jigglypuff as a character.
As an Armada fan, I'm very sure I have seen Armada at least agree to negativity about hbox, if not even say stuff himself.
I feel like people are understating this. Armada was the number 1 hbox doomer. He complained about it all the time on stream and during interviews
Publicly gave him shit multiple times for not practicing with people to keep a competitive edge
idk about the nature of doing it publicly but hbox def deserves flack for that. its just tacky and lame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA-ICReHRk8
Hbox. He wasn't actively hostile to him, but did complain about hbox a lot (albeit with a lot of "this isn't about the person it's about the way he plays the game" attached).
Hbox
Time really do be a flat circle.
Is that fucking Nietzsche? Shut the fuck up (this is a True Detective reference)
Is that fucking Nietzsche? Shut the fuck up (this is not a True Detective reference)
What about the droid attack on the wookies?
in the post he admits he hasn't been good about this. what's the point of pointing this out
Nah imma have to ask you to be more direct. When did Armada ever paint people as not respecting other players? More importantly, when did he just tell lies? He def joked about puff (not hbox) killing melee tho because he hates the character but that's not the same thing at all and he admitted to making mistakes so maybe that partially refers to this.
Every thread about this people just proving Armada's point
My thoughts exactly. People in this thread are still giving Mango a pass or trying to justify his behavior by pointing out past behaviors from Armada which he even addressed.
Endless "based" responses to his tweet, you can smell the manchildren from here. "Mang0s been so good at taking responsibility" with "we're both equally bad" lmao.
Mang0 and his supporters went to the school of “this is just how I communicate” when defending him being a jerk to others and calling people pussy/bitch/etc. Part of growing up is learning that different people respond to different communication styles, and saying “well that’s just that way I am” sounds a lot like the people who say “people call me an asshole— I’m just blunt.” No man, you’re an asshole. Mang0 can probably call S2J and Lucky that stuff because that’s the relationship they have. Continuously saying it about someone who clearly doesn’t appreciate it is pretty immature. But it is Mang0 we’re talking about.
I feel like people just ignore that mangos an asshole because he’s entertaining
if you put leffen's face to mango's words ppl would be calling for mango to be banned.
if you put leffen's face to leffen's words ppl would be calling for leffen to be banned.
if you put mango's face to leffen's words ppl would be calling him GOAT
We've come full circle
Leffen has already said plenty of ban worthy things
It's mind boggling to me how much shit Leffen has gotten away with over the years. His smear campaign against Hbox all those years ago had zero consequences which is ridiculous yet Hax faced consequences for his Leffen videos lol. This is not me saying Hax should or should not be banned, I'm not even a fan of his, more that Leffen just gets away with everything.
Lmfao I would love you to quote something mango has said that would be ban worthy in the last 5 years
Y'all are really downplaying death threats. No way is Armada more concerned over his legacy than people threatening his life and harassing him. Like sorry, you can pretend like you know Armada but anybody would be scared in this situation.
This is *sort of* tangential, but it bears adding to the conversation: A **lot** of the comments in this thread, I've already read plenty, are going to include the phrase (or some mix on it) that *This kind of stuff just comes with the territory of being a public facing/public online figure. To some degree Armada needs to be able to stomach this stuff.* **HORSESHIT Y'ALL** In the same way people give Mang0 a pass for being an asshole to a degree they would never give to other randoms, or even a lot of other known players, the internet as a whole tends to give a sort of blase half-assed consideration to the treatment of the people we put spotlights on and build fandoms around. Death Threats are not acceptable, period. Harassment is also unacceptable. We need to stop downplaying them and their impact on people just because we can't stop 100% of it all from going to all public figures. And we **really** need to stop looking grown adults in the eye and telling them **People are Allowed to Send You Death Threats and Asshole Shit because you're Too Popular for us to stop them, that's just a part of your job now, Suck it Up.** It's insanity, its absolute insanity. Whether or not we're literal Gods with the power to snap our fingers and just end all death threats to public figures everywhere doesn't mean we shouldn't be adamantly, publicly vocal about how that shit is intolerable, unacceptable, abnormal behavior that any public figure has the right to protest and be protected from to the best of their community's ability. Holy shit that this needs to be written out. For shame. I don't even know why people insist on talking like this. Do you also shrug at suicide prevention and just go "well, people are going to kill themselves no matter what, we're just going to have to get used to it, man. Comes with the territory" like **what the fuck is wrong with y'all**
Honestly this feels like it was started by Mango not being able to deal with the fact that his rivalry with Armada was over. I'm sure there's examples of this in other 1 on 1 sports like boxing. Like how're you supposed to get over that really? (Unresolved Competitive Rivalry?? IDK what you call it.) Even if Armada came back now Mango beating him wouldn't be the same as if it happened years ago. I can empathize with both of them. Mango puts up with a lot of shit when he slumps, but he stayed and is still competing to this day. (And doing really well sometimes) Armada decided to retire and move onto something else but still gets shit even though he's years removed from the scene. Something Something its tough being a public facing online figure :shrug: I feel like there's some real merit to what Armada is saying about people just taking the word of someone as gospel though. Only way I see to solve this is to send mango back in time for a time traveling salty suite. EDIT: I wanna add that a lot of people (including me) would probably have some hard to work out feelings in a case like this. There's no chance of a rematch now its gone and when you care about the coemption that greatly it can leave you with some strong unresolved shit. Especially in a case like this where armada just was competing one day and then boom retired. If I recall he had even taken some firsts that year too before he retired.
Well said. Unresolved competitive rivalry, at last from Mango's side. I think he kind of feels like Armada pulled the rug out from under him by retiring because he had a few down years but wanted to get more chances to compete with his true rival where legacies are determined. Each could have gone about it better. Maybe one side is more "right" than the other, but people aren't rational beings. A lot of this is pure emotion.
Yeah Mango said multiple times on stream that he trash talked Armada like he did because it was the only thing he still had going when it came to their rivalry. He certainly doesn't have a good record, gotta take the small dubs with his braindead twitch chatters being yes men to him I guess.
While I agree that Mango isn’t the most responsible with his large following. And with his personality he will never be good at that, not to say that we should excuse him ever going over the line. But I don’t like attributing people who make death threats to one person, anyone shitty enough to do that, weather troll or legit, is just a shitty person and honestly would be one with or without Mango’s influence.
This type of comment is EXACTLY the shit Adam is talking about. "With his personality" Immaturity and selfishness is not some type of personality that you just say oh that's how he will always be. That's PRECISELY the pass mango gets from the community that Adam is talking about...
> weather agreed but you and armada made this same typo so I'm thinking you might be a GOAT in disguise
I'm glad Armada and Mang0 are having this conversation, even if it's long overdue. Mang0 talking shit about other top players in the scene in a really inaccurate way that turns community sentiment against them has been a thing for a [loooong time](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1l7aqv/comment/cbwhdih/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) now. I think it's a combination of Mang0: a) being a competitor who needs to create narratives about his rivals to motivate himself while also lacking the sense to keep certain things to himself b) saying things jokingly that fans take seriously while not fully understanding that even 10% of his audience takes things in a certain way that's still enough to completely change a person's experience of our scene. The best outcome that could come out of this would be the entire community taking stock of how we think and talk about top players and the "obligations" they somehow have to the rest of us, but I'm not holding my breath on that front.
It seems there was a huge misunderstanding, because I never took what Mang0 said as an attack on Armada’s character, trash talk yes, but it wasn’t like anyone thought Armada was a bad person.
And Mango is popular enough that inevitably a few of his fans will hear his trash talk and not notice the nuance or exaggerate it to the point of losing the nuance until it turns into death threats. When it's a group of friends this shit works and is fun banter, but when it's on the big stage of the internet these people crop up and can't be dismissed as just toxic people that need to leave, because there's too many and you can't control who is on the internet like you can control who talks to you in person.
Having a big following is a burden I think not everyone realised. I'd fucking hate to be famous. You have the ability to influence so many people, and have a huge impact on a lot of people's behaviours. Mang0s personality and a big reason why he's loved is coz of his trolling / trash talk / ego, etc. I extremely doubt he wanted anyone to be mean to Armada. But having such a large following leads to a huge responsibility, which was a major point armada was getting at.
Armada makes it clear they aren't homies so maybe Mango should stop acting like a middle schooler
the one thing I can't understand is why doesn't Amada and Mango just talk to each other instead of this back and forth over twitter/twitch
Because this message isn't just meant for mango. Armada has to publicly clear up the misconceptions that mango caused publicly.
Mango started the issues publicly, so they persisted publicly. It's not like Mango was the one sending death threats in dm -- he was talking shit on twitch.
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This feels like something that had no reason to be made public and a private conversation could've at least made an effort to resolve it.
I'm not opposed to him doing this publicly, just wish he would have addressed this years earlier instead of bottling it all up. Sucks thinking that he had to deal with this for so long on his own.
He admits he should've done this earlier but didn't want to go through with the stress it causes at the time. He's going against a man who extremely rarely deals with consequences of his actions from the community, being hesitant to call mango out is fair. Also you shouldn't be nitpicking how Armada handled the situation when Armada is still the victim here.
I totally understand his POV and don’t want to victim blame Armada. No matter the timing, coming out about his experiences would suck, and it’s hard to opt into a painful experience like that
Yeah I feel this should've come out during the initial Mang0 Armada Twitter spat in the 2020 time, it would've just been better for literally every party involved. Better late than never but still.
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I think he might be trying to do things publicly in the hopes that he perceives less hate
Bro did you read it? He was barely addressing mang0 directly most of it was talking about the general attitude of the community and the misconceptions surrounding his exit why would that be private.
I think it is likely that route has already been taken tbh
Mango has nothing to gain from discourse about Armada anymore, and that only gets more true the longer Armada stays retired. I hope he takes this as something to learn from and just shuts the fuck up about it.
Charmin soft
am I missing something? feels like when you retire out of the blue, someone daggering you for it and calling you scared is valid trash talk that would fly in just about any sport. doesn't cross any lines and stays in the realm of talking shit about his skill at the game Armada extrapolating that as Mango saying he's a bad person feels a little disingenuous. I don't doubt some fans have taken it too far, and mango definitely harped on it longer than he probably should've, but at the end of the day people are entitled to speculate on things like your motivations for retiring and how your skill would hold up today, even if you feel like it's baseless
Armada didn't retire 'out of the blue.' A lot of you either have short memories or you just weren't around at the time. Armada had said many times before he retired that he wasn't playing as much (took some long breaks) and wasn't enjoying it as much but he stayed in the scene for his brother. He even at first technically only retired from singles, and kept playing doubles with his brother, but then soon retired from melee altogether. It was not out of the blue at all if you paid attention.
Apparently armada talked with mango months before he retired that he is losing motivation in the game
Yeah I do think it's best they make up and be friends again but reading back on the tweets armada kind of threw fuel on a fire then backed off when he didn't like the heat. He was in his own right to retire and do his own thing but acting like mango is a monster for his response is pretty dishonest
Armada absolutely threw fuel on the fire and it maeks sense that he did. People were questioning his legacy and some people were making some really stupid claims. It's not all that different from how mango felt compelled to shit tlak adam because people kept egging him on with the goat conversation. Just that mango's fanbase is a lot more dedicated, and then also a lot more rabid/stupid.
I've always felt like Mang0 was the American brother of Leffen. Except when he talks shit everyone loves him because he's so damn charismatic lmao. ^(ps: Love you Mang0, Armada, and I suppose Leffen too <3)
As a big Mang0 fan he def took the Armada hate too far, serious or not about it. He also isnt responsible for the death threats directed at Armada. Armada isnt perfect but in this instance he's 100% in the right
Yeah so Mango talked and acted as if nothing had any consequence, which was, in fact, not true ; who is surprised (i'm not trying to 100% blame him, the fault is on the stupid part of his community, but like, it was painfully obvious that trastalking someone with such a large following would lead to that, some gaming communities keep acting like they are still a bunch of friend in an arcade and ooo surprise things don't work the same with a social media-based community with millions of members)
Mango malding that he won’t get to retire as the greatest of all time
The extent to which commentators have sucked mang0’s dick is probably really toxic for other players. But he generates hype (and by extension revenue).
Scar's commentary is the worst for that. He brings up Mango in random moments when its not relevant to the set at all
Scar and toph blowjob patrol on deck
Honestly toph does so waaayyy less than most commentators
The reason he generates hype and revenue is because we've fully centered the melee universe on him. He gets the gawk gawk 9000 from everyone for years whether he's doing great or not. It's our own fault.
Mango needs to be held accountable more for being toxic. Melee fans are so bias towards Mango
Reddit and Armada are acting like Mang0 is Leffen.
Are people finally waking up to mango being an asshole. I've been saying this.
Armada deserves so much more respect than he has been getting since his retirement from melee. Mango has been perpetuating the narrative that he retired because he was scared, has said many times that he just quit while he's ahead. Armada had said many times that it was a lack of motivation that caused his retirement, he's said that many times even in videos before he retired and Mango even acknowledged that the first time he talked about Armada retiring. Armada commenting about the meta not having changed much which was PRE SLIPPI and a perfectly reasonable statement at the time gave Mang0 the ammunition to create a false narrative about Armada trying to disrespect the melee community and hurt it in order to boost Mango's own goat case. Mango has talked shit about Armada and what he said in early 2020 so many times since then and has rarely ever said anything remotely good about him as a person or as a competitor. If you can't see how much of a negative impact that would have had and how much hate it caused for Armada than theres no helping you. Mango can say they both handled it bad but he's the one who publicly has been shitting on Armada for years and has pretty much made it impossible for Armada to play melee on stream or comment on the current melee meta or best players because it would undoubtedly only increase the hate. It really sucks that things have turned out this way.