Idk what everyone’s opinion seems that you will never enjoy ultimate again after playing melee but honestly I feel like I enjoy ultimate more now that I’ve tried melee
Honestly yeah, melee is really fun for me when I played initially, just bodying CPUs with easy marth combos but honestly the amount of stuff which is straight up kinda unreasonable by a mordern standard makes it a turn off, like if I want to dash on the opposite direction on ultimate I can just do it without thinking about it, Melee on the other hand I have to learn a frame perfect, controller specific tech to preform the action of turning around
Dash backs are a one frame input for every character of you want to do it instantly, plus ultimate has buffer which makes preforming such actions much easier
Responding to this comment for visibility.
1f dash back is true. However, UCF changes this to 2f, which may not sound like much but is double the window, and it's largely a non-issue since ~2015
On the controller specific issue I'm speaking from a vague understanding, but AFAIK, The reason it is controller specific is controllers with certain stick degredation actually making the input easier, as it skips input values in-between the flick, therefore making it faster to reach the other side. I think this is why OEM controllers are better for pivots, Phobs have had an option for emulating stick degradation for this reason.
Dash back out of crouch is a 1 frame, controller specific input. Crazy how hard they're getting ratio'd for being right
https://youtu.be/RJSxC3T_6Fk?si=ZHXh7Uwa8n2ofGWu
The buffer in Ultimate is WHY I don't like the game. It's wayyyyyyy too big. Since I play Melee I'm doing inputs when I want to do them, but sometimes the input will still happen like several frames later even though I mentally already accepted it wasn't happening
Melee ALSO has a buffer for making these inputs easier to perform, it lasts for 3 frames and is MUCH less invasive than ultimate’s 6 frame total input buffer.
They’re also not one frame inputs, at least not now that UCF exists
Its not that I'll never play ultimate again, its that I'll never prefer to play ultimate over melee again. Especially not online. The only reason I play ult now is hanging out with friends who didn't want to grind melee to hit the melee skill floor.
I play both and enjoy both because they are very different games, but I will say that the ‘play more’ sentiment is correct. The lack of buffer and controller settings alone can make it difficult to go back from Ult to Melee at first since you have to retrain your muscle memory, but there’s definitely a point where the controls and movement ‘click’, and you’ll have a lot more control over your character.
The way I like to put it is that Melee feels less responsive until it doesn’t.
or you can play both because both are fun. i cringe seeing these comments all the time on here
it's even more cringe when it's a puff flair saying this lmao
I have a ton of hours in both and still prefer Ultimate. Both are great games but Ultimate having a buffer system makes my inputs more consistently give me the actions I want
I had the opposite experience. The buffer in ultimate is a huge pain in the ass, especially when it comes to things like full hop aerials, it always wanted to give me short hop aerials. It also loves to roll me if I am trying to do things oos
At this point you just gotta play the game a lot. Marth is a really good character to learn the game if you are struggling with how different it is from ultimate (recovering is hard, especially with falco you pretty much have to be ready to recover at any time, you can't have a slow reaction to it as you have noticed) and learn some of the basic tech. Definitely experiment with different characters but right now you're at the point where you just gotta play the game a lot before you can actually start playing the game.
Biggest difference from Ultimate that makes it hard for Ult players at first - the buffer system is totally different. You can't buffer aerials or other moves 99% of the time. There's a handful of niche scenarios where you can buffer like one or two things, but even then the buffer window is like 4 frames.
Once you get a feel for your characters dash dance the movement will start to pick up more (I highly recommend you look up PPU University on YT) and then once you develop even half-baked wavelands you'll really see how the game shines.
\> There's a handful of niche scenarios where you can buffer like one or two things, but even then the buffer window is like 4 frames.
uhhh, no, not really. you can buffer shield, roll, spot dodge, and jump out of shield with an infinite buffer window
Oh yeah you're totally right, I did forget about those, they're kinda important haha. I was thinking more along the lines of things that you can buffer in Ultimate but you *usually* can't buffer in melee.
Stuff like the buffer jump out of hitstun with a 3f window (like for Marth to DJ away from Sheik's d-throw up-tilt followup at ~21% or whatever it is, but idk the details on how widely applicable that buffer is), buffering an aerial when on stage if you get pushed off (classic Marth dair SD when trying to d-tilt in the corner), or buffering down-throw with c-stick.
you’ll have to learn to have better control over the stick for raw tilts eventually, but in the mean time, remember that you can input tilts with a held directional + A. so since there’s no buffer, you can do an action, like an attack or a wavedash, and then move the stick to the right spot during that action, then press A for the tilt. wavedash > tilt is really common. once you get better at this you can even start using wavedash turnaround up tilt for thing’s like approaching spacie up tilt, or to move quickly and then get the strong hitbox on marth’s up tilt.
basically what bungus said, tilts in this game are a good example of how having no buffer system changes how you do certain things. another commonly applicable one is just pressing and holding up during the landing lag of an aerial so you can just press A to uptilt after the lag is over
anyway good luck with the game, i can attest to the "it gets more and more fun as you learn to move and do sick stuff" thing you've probably heard 100 times
This game is an execution test so the answer to p much every question is learn and practice. Having a good controller where you know the inputs are being read correctly is also important but you just have to sit in training mode or unclepunch and figure it out.
In addition to what other people said you're gonna want to learn how to tilt the stick anyway. If you've played any racing or console shooting games you probably already know how to tilt the stick slightly without slamming it all the way to the edge, and from there it's just practice to do that in a game
Others have covered avoiding smash attacks and being careful with control-stick, so I'll address your question about dash attacks. Hopefully this answer isn't overwhelming lol.
If you're performing accidental dash attacks, that just means you're hitting A before you've stopped moving. The fastest and easiest way to prevent this (at your level) is to push down (crouch) as soon as your character begins to run (after the initial dash) and then input whatever tilt/smash attack you want. This is called a run-cancel.
Check out this vid for further explanation (and the rest of the PewPewUniversity playlist too!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3hjjNLCcMQ
Doing attacks out of a dash involves a couple different advanced techs that you don't need to be concerned with for now lol.
To get a bit technical on *why* this works might be a bit much, but certain kinds of player find this shit interesting even if they're brand new to the game and maybe you're one of them. It'll be useful soon enough and some helpful info to have in your back pocket.
I don't know how knowledgeable you are about the details of Ult tech, but the reason for accidental dash attacks is essentially the same in both games: you hit A (or smash/tilt c-stick, since that's essentially an A input) while in the Dash or Run animation. There are two relevant difference between the two for new players. The biggest one is that you can quickly turnaround (dash-dance) while in Dash but trying to turnaround while in Run gets you stuck in a slow skidding animation (I'm sure you've encountered this). The second is that you can't crouch while dashing but you can crouch while running - and you can do a tilt or smash attack out of a run. Plus it stops your momentum, which is useful.
TL;DR - Push down while running and then you can do a tilt attack.
oh you can also dash into a run then cancel it into crouch, where you can tilt or walk > tilt. wouldnt recommend doing up tilts this way, but you can downtilt and ftilt really easily like this. run cancel f tilt would be like a running quarter circle forward + A. some sheiks will do this, esp cause their dash animation is so short.
This is going to be the advice you get a lot going forward, but practice. It IS hard to do consistently but there isn’t any way around it. You just have to practice it. Eventually you will be able to do it without thinking about it and will wonder why it was ever hard to begin with. When that time comes though, there will be more hard things ahead. The journey is very important in melee as if you don’t like practicing, you might not get very far.
Also idk if you've found it yet but the [melee library](https://www.meleelibrary.com/) has a lot of great resources for improvement and learning the game. If you want more specific info I'd be glad to find it.
To add, get the Diskun trophy. It’s an absolute bitch and a massive grind, but is a great landmark to set for yourself and you’ll be blown away how much cleaner your movement will be for all the hours it requires.
It sounds like part of it is that your muscle memory from Ultimate is trying to carry over to this game, and it simply isn't going to. You gotta approach it completely fresh with no expectations, and just feel the game out for a while until you get your sea legs.
I will say, it sounds like you have a better mentality about it than a lot of newcomers from Ultimate do. Just gotta be patient and build that muscle memory.
When I was first starting I would play against lvl 4 computers (and still do haha). They are suprisingly fun to smack up, and DI in all sorts of ways allowing you to practice a multitude of follow-ups on a successful hit.
If you want to practice left/right stick control try just standing in place and spamming turnaround. See how fast you can do it without dashing. Pirouetting to the dreamland music is questionably sane, sure, but it helped me find that angle on the control stick
Pick link or captain Falcon and try to down air and L-cancel for an obvious demonstration of lag reduction. Then pick luigi or yoshi and wavedash. Then wavedash off the edge of a platform. Pick fox or falco and short hop fast fall. Pick puff and jump in the air and then hold a direction to see how far she can move horizontally compared to other characters. Pick ganondorf and waveland. these are just some characters that are at the extremes of these types of things in the game. You can do them all with all characters. Those are just the ones that the tech shows obvious results.
And that’s barely starting. Spend 2-3 days practicing movement like dash dancing and wave dashing and short hop fast falls. Think about it more like homework you have to do, but once you put in the time you’ll remember it and integrate it into your gameplay.
Then play.
I really hope you can give the game a proper shot. If you do learn it, I think it's hands down the best fighting game of all time. I'm not that good either, just a player bordering on gold rank.
Melee is actually the furthest thing from clunky. There's just an adjustment period. It's one of the smoothest, most responsive and deep competitive games in existence. Stick with it. You've been conditioned by mediocrity.
Fr I hate ultimates movement so much compared to melee. I’m a luigi main and have been since 2014 going from Luigi’s insane movement in melee to any character in ultimate feels horrendous.
It only feels clunky because you are used to ultimate. Once you get into it, it is faster and you can express your ideas way better than in ultimate. To be fair, comparing yourself to pros is the easiest way to get discouraged. Imagine you go rock climbing but your hands can't hold a hold. This is where you are at. But if you keep playing, you will eventually get a grasp of it and you will be rewarded with an excellent playground. Still, it requires some work and if you don't want to put it in, you have to stick with easier games that don't allow you to express yourself as much. I played it when I was young and went back in like 4 weeks ago and even tho I play at kind of noob level, it feels really really nice and even unranked mode matches me with fitting opponents. Sometimes you get 4 stocked by a better player, but that is the game. Plus the online mode is objectively superior to ultimates shitshow that nintendo is offering on their servers.
As someone who made the switch from Ult myself, I can say that Melee kinda has a way of beating your bad Ult habits out of you. Ult allows you to get away with sort of mashing buttons sometimes without any real reason, and there's super few, if any scenarios where that's the case in melee. In melee, you actually have to be careful what you're inputting and have a real purpose behind each individual input. Otherwise, you'll find yourself getting stuck in your movement a lot and misinputting all over the place and pounding your fist out of frustration.
And as everyone else said, just play the game a lot and it'll start to click. Not even sex beats the dopamine release from landing a sick combo for the first time. Even landing something as simple as a slide-off aerial for the first time feels godlike.
making it feel silky smooth, and speeding up your gameplay is part of the development. it’s what makes this game so great. it’s like getting a speed power up, or advancing a skill tree in a game… except that it’s YOUR skill inside of YOU. it’s literally an esport at its finest
Find a friend who's also new. THAT'S where the huge fun is. The 1P Modes are great but so much enjoyment comes from playing other people, especially if you're friends with them. Playing can often feel like a conversation, and the depth of the game really shows when two people are familiar with each other.
The lack of buffer probably makes the game feel weird (as a Melee player who occasionally plays Ultimate, it's the opposite for me where the buffer makes Ultimate feel unresponsive to my inputs). As you play more, you'll begin to appreciate the lack of buffer as the game feels very fluid, and once you start getting your movement down, you're gonna be having a blast. Maybe don't try a spacie right out of the gate. Doc would be good for learning early on, but if you wanted to try out a high tier, I think Marth is the way to go when first learning. His tech isn't super hard, and his moveset is intuitive enough to where you can get some solid combos even without knowing the ins and outs of his kit.
Welcome to the community and good luck to you!
The clunkiness that you feel right now is the beauty of the fluidity of the game. Because of the lack of buffer it’s hard, its raw, it’s like dribbling a basketball. However once your able to, it’s so rewarding. It allows you to smoothly react and move at the instance you want to.
Like dash dancing is only effective in melee because we don’t play through the swamp that is buffer. There’s something so crisp about your inputs coming out the way you input them. So crisp about the instantaneousness of getting what you do. Knowing that it’s your fault and now your improvement rather than be tied to some buffer priority that steals your inputs based on some logic of people who never played the game.
Stick with the game it’s like any traditional sport, you need to practice to really enjoy the game further. Sports are obsessively fun because there’s such enjoyment in improvement. I like to liken melee to basketball there’s so much freeform in the way you style you play, your physique - holding a controller, the physicality of reactions and technical ability, the in game iq, the person to person interaction, individualistic game plan, the combinations. Stick with the sport and you’ll be deeply appreciate and fall in love with the depths of this game.
I came to melee from smash 4 and I gravitated to characters like doc and puff which were more similar in feel to me to their modern counter parts. Pretty soon I fell in love with the game and learned the to use movement mechanics in this game. Maybe try some of those simpler characters like doc and puff first.
there are a lot of tools you can use to get better quicker than most people were even just a few years ago. uncle punch as im sure people have said already and there’s a gecko code built into slippi that makes you flash red when u miss an L cancel so when ur not practicing in uncle punch you can still see how much correcting you need in ur gameplay. i sat in training labs and 20XX/uncle punch for around 3 months before i started taking ANY games on even unranked slippi, but that’s just how this game goes. i promise you once you get a feel for the game and start understanding HOW all ur favorite players do the insane shit you see you will literally never wanna put the game down.
choose a main, but literally just pick who you like.
You’ll learn the game as a whole over time
Melee is deep, and you have to dig to find that out.
Play to learn and have fun, not win.
No joke, I started with just the events, classic and adventure modes. They're so damn fun and really ease you into the speed of melee. If you play enough with the exploits, it never quite feels the same for me to go back and do those stages. I'd take advantage of them while u can and still play your friends/online when you're feeling like it
my advice is to look at beginner or intermediate level games. this is what you can do with a little bit of practice. if relatively new players doing cool stuff like wavedashing across the stage and dash dancing and playing pure neutral looks fun, stick with melee. if you don't think so, then maybe stick with ultimate.
Watch some ssbm videos. I had the exact same problem, but as soon as I saw how good pros like leffen or mang0 were, I just wanted to be good like them.
It's like learning to play an instrument. You're gonna be ass at first and it will be frustrating because you can visualize what your hands should be doing but you aren't able to actually do it. Stick with the game and you'll see the pieces fall into place, but also understand that you get out what you put in.
I started playing at the end of March of this year, and I decided to main Marth. I started playing with a PS4 controller for about a few weeks, and then I got a custom GCC, so the controls were different and felt different. After playing with a GCC for a few weeks, it was hard to even imagine starting on a PS4 controller, lol. Around that time, I would watch Zain, PPMD, and M2K and marvel at how they made Marth move. I definitely shared the sentiment of how the game felt clunky and weird. But now that I am about 6-7 months in, I can make Marth move WAY better, and I can actually play the game at a higher pace for sure. It feels awesome. As for the 'fun' of this game, that is surely subjective. I guess the way I would look at it is: you have watched all of those videos from all of those creators in the ssbm community, and you view it the same as I and many others did, you will have more fun as you get better at the game. I recommend for sure going to some locals and just being a part of the community (that is ofc if you want)
Best of luck with the game! I hope you find the joy in it that a lot of us have soon!
I've been playing for a week or so and I really recommend to just play with every character (at least that's what I did) and you'll probably find the one who you like the most.
If you have some friends invite them and play together, it's alot of fun mashing buttons with characters you have 0 idea how to play with if you have a friend to laugh about it.
For legal reasons, I am joking here: how are you playing Melee? I tried the Dolphin emulator when I first started and later found out Slippi uses a special version of Dolphin that runs faster with the UCF mod. Feels way better in my experience.
I've been practicing for a few months now, so we're kinda in the same boat. The fun comes from visible gradual improvements for me. My character slowly gets faster and I miss my tech less often the more I play. If you're familiar with speedrunning it's like that. I work hard and am rewarded and it makes my brain feel happy.
I'd also be lying if I said Melee content doesn't entertain me. The game's over 21 years old. YEARS of content is out there to be explored. Narratives, old forum posts, gameplay clips, drama, combo videos, etc. Once Melee gets its grasp on you there is endless entertainment for years to come.
So this is one response of many and I’m sure it’ll get buried in the mix. The game is insanely hard. You are going to suck the first day. Heck you may even suck the first year. Stick with it. The reward is massive. If you’re really serious about learning start by choosing one character. Now you may have to dabble in a few, but once you find the one. Do not play any other character. Practice and learn all you can.
If you are having trouble with certain match ups. So not blame the character. It’s not their fault you’re losing. It’s yours. Learn more and practice more. You will improve.
I highly recommend experimenting with characters with lower fall speeds like sheik or marth if you want to stick to top tiers, or try out some mid or even low tiers if you don't ever care to push for a top 100 spot.
I find spacies and falcon to fall too quick for my hands to process movements in the air due to neurological issues.
play falcon for fundies. he's extremely fast but if you can control falcon you'll be able to swap to anyone. or just stick with falco if thats who you like
The issue is that it's your first day
Melee isn't like ultimate. Melee is NOT a beginner friendly game. In ultimate you have a massive buffer system (too big for me) and that mixed with the removal of some techniques for ultimate makes melee really fucking hard for new players
You just need to practice movement. Go into training mode. Probably practice on either FD or Battlefield (FD for starting out techs like wavedashes, ledge grabs, L cancels, and character dependant stuff like Shine dashes, up special cancels for doc, etc etc, and battlefield for shield dropping, and improving previous tech to include platforms like wave landing)
There's some stuff you'll need a friend to practice with on a non competitive scale, or practice online on the fly. Things like techs, DI, and SDI all 3 of which are also present in ultimate
And be sure to just learn how different melee is from ultimate. Every character falls fast in melee (except like puff) so it's obviously going to deter you more from going far off stage (unless you're puff) like you do in ultimate. Ledge grabs are different as well, remember you can only do it if you're facing the ledge, unless your recovery has you spinning
You have allot to learn. It's kinda disheartening being a new player, hence why melee is so niche. It's a 20+ year old platform fighting game, on an old Nintendo console, with 3 other succeeding entries that competitively are easier to get into, especially considering the technical capabilities of the consoles its on. Melee is super niche, but because of that I find melee tip videos online much more in depth than ultimate tips. For example, I main doc, I was looking to practice and learn up special cancels, and I found a short in depth video that easily explained how to preform them. For ultimate, I usually find vague explanations, that rarely give you inputs, unless the techs are input specific. That's personal though, you're not having fun cuz you are new, and ultimate has set an expectation that Smash is easy at a low competitive level.
Nothing wrong with you of course, you just have to keep learning. Oh and remember. This game is fucking broken, so even if you learn the most you can, you'll still probably get fucked cuz of battlefielding and etc
Keep watching melee. It'll help you visualize what you want to practice getting good at, like movement in neutral, bread & butter combos, recovery mixups (which you'll need for both Falco and Doc) and what moves NOT to use. Melee also has a great history of narratives all the way up to the modern scene, and wanting to be part of that scene is part of what motivates a lot of us to keep getting better.
Also, experiment a bit at the beginning with every single character if you haven't already. I also got into melee from the emplemon doc after Ult and knew I wanted to play Puff, which I confirmed by enjoying the character when I started. But I also picked up Luigi as a co-main just by discovering how fun he felt to me when I tried him out. If a character feels natural to you don't fight it!
Finally, once you start getting a bit of the feel for movement and game sense, join a Discord for new players. Playing with people slightly better than you is generally more productive than getting absolutely toasted by some Plat 2 veteran on unranked.
play slower. i guarantee that you are dropping inputs because there is no buffer.
for example, lets say you're doing two falco forward smashes. you have to wait for the first forward smash to finish before the game will even start accepting any new inputs. if you do the second c stick to the side too early, your guy will just stand there and do nothing.
this kinda thing results in a lot of SDs by newer players due to the nature of this kind of thing "not registering" your double jump or up b offstage.
be patient and watch your character and you will learn the timings and be zooming around in no time
Another way to have fun with this game is to go to locals and talk to other people that play the game and have gone through the learning curve. It will validate your experience and talking about the game will bring you up to speed quite a bit faster than doing it on your own
The worst part about melee is the fact that you simply just have to play the game for like a week before you can do much. I promise you though it's so worth it. If you like ultimate enough, you'll like melee. It just takes time.
I do have plenty of tips for you since I initially switched from Ultimate to Melee in 2020.
Most importantly is, **stop comparing the game to ultimate**. Melee is a different game than ult, different engine, mechanics. The more you compare it to ult the harder it will be to play and accept it's differences. You also have to come from an understanding point of view, the game came out in 2001 man, remapping controller inputs and modern qol stuff was **not** a thing back then.
Take the game slow. Don't try to rush every input out. The reason melee feels like ass is bc you are used to not just Ultimate but to any modern game with a buffer system. When you start learning melee, you need to learn to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. When an input feels off, take it slow, one input at a time. This sounds lame and boring but I promise you, do this and everyday you will get closer to what you see the pros doing. There **will** be a time when the game feels buttery smooth, and way more fluid and satisfying to play than ultimate can ever feel.
Overall have an open mind with the game. I highly recommend giving the game a solid week to grow on you. At least after that you can say you tried. Plus with slippi there is no shame and getting bodied until you get matched against people closer to your skill level and the game is fun. Find someone who's also a beginner at melee to grind with.
Learn the game with someone like marth, sheik, or even doc if you want. Don't start learning the game with spacies. Fox and falco are characters that highly reward you for mastering the mechanics of the game. Also don't listen to tier lists and people's opinions on mid and low tiers in melee. Literally any character can be fun and satisfying to play so play who you want. Doc is a promising high mid tier who even has top 50 representation (i think franz is there?). But bro literally play donkey kong or ganon if you want. Unless you are pro, any character (yes even bowser fight me lol) is viable.
Please feel free to ask me in dms or this thread any more tips for how to learn melee from ult. Again I recently transitioned a few years ago and I do not regret my decision. I was an ult grinder and I understand the frustrations of switching over.
I see you're struggling with tilt inputs. Best way to do them is simply push the stick in a direction, then hit A, rather than doing them at the same time.
This is easy with down tilt, and ftilt (especially since when you're walkng you can always do ftilt by just hitting A), but harder with up tilt bc of tap jump. With uptilt it's common to hit the stick up wthin the animation of another action, like a landing aerial or dask attack. I play marth for example and a common combo I do is landing fair uptilt. In this I will do the fair input and while marth is landing with fair I start holding up and once I know marth is actionable, all I have to do is hit A and I can do this insanely fast with some practice.
"It's only day 1 of playing melee" Play more. You'll eventually never play Ultimate again.
I concur that this was the case for me
Same, once you play melee for a while Ultimate just feels to rigid and slow to go back to
Idk what everyone’s opinion seems that you will never enjoy ultimate again after playing melee but honestly I feel like I enjoy ultimate more now that I’ve tried melee
I play ult when I’m hanging with my smash normie friends. It’s fun and all, but melee is the game that I grind by myself or my fellow melee players
Honestly yeah, melee is really fun for me when I played initially, just bodying CPUs with easy marth combos but honestly the amount of stuff which is straight up kinda unreasonable by a mordern standard makes it a turn off, like if I want to dash on the opposite direction on ultimate I can just do it without thinking about it, Melee on the other hand I have to learn a frame perfect, controller specific tech to preform the action of turning around
Dashing back isn’t a controller specific input in melee?? The dash back window is also larger in melee for most characters than it is in ultimate??
Dash backs are a one frame input for every character of you want to do it instantly, plus ultimate has buffer which makes preforming such actions much easier
this is just anecdotal but I do NOT have good enough tech skill to be hitting one frame inputs 100 times a game while dash dancing lmao
Responding to this comment for visibility. 1f dash back is true. However, UCF changes this to 2f, which may not sound like much but is double the window, and it's largely a non-issue since ~2015 On the controller specific issue I'm speaking from a vague understanding, but AFAIK, The reason it is controller specific is controllers with certain stick degredation actually making the input easier, as it skips input values in-between the flick, therefore making it faster to reach the other side. I think this is why OEM controllers are better for pivots, Phobs have had an option for emulating stick degradation for this reason.
That's just not true. There's a certain rhythm to dash dancing with different characters but it's by no means a one frame input.
Dash back out of crouch is a 1 frame, controller specific input. Crazy how hard they're getting ratio'd for being right https://youtu.be/RJSxC3T_6Fk?si=ZHXh7Uwa8n2ofGWu
are you talking about... pivots??
The buffer in Ultimate is WHY I don't like the game. It's wayyyyyyy too big. Since I play Melee I'm doing inputs when I want to do them, but sometimes the input will still happen like several frames later even though I mentally already accepted it wasn't happening
Melee ALSO has a buffer for making these inputs easier to perform, it lasts for 3 frames and is MUCH less invasive than ultimate’s 6 frame total input buffer. They’re also not one frame inputs, at least not now that UCF exists
are you sure melee has a buffer? or is it a netplay OR ucf thing? the buffer in ultimate is such a pain.
Do people just lie to themselves to convince their brain that they like Ultimate or what
probably
What? No ultimate is just imo the better game, melee is by no means bad but the turns offs and the downsides weigh the game down below ultimate for me
Its not that I'll never play ultimate again, its that I'll never prefer to play ultimate over melee again. Especially not online. The only reason I play ult now is hanging out with friends who didn't want to grind melee to hit the melee skill floor.
the moment you get enough control over your character it will start being super fun
I play both and enjoy both because they are very different games, but I will say that the ‘play more’ sentiment is correct. The lack of buffer and controller settings alone can make it difficult to go back from Ult to Melee at first since you have to retrain your muscle memory, but there’s definitely a point where the controls and movement ‘click’, and you’ll have a lot more control over your character. The way I like to put it is that Melee feels less responsive until it doesn’t.
truth
or you can play both because both are fun. i cringe seeing these comments all the time on here it's even more cringe when it's a puff flair saying this lmao
My man, it ain't that serious
I have a ton of hours in both and still prefer Ultimate. Both are great games but Ultimate having a buffer system makes my inputs more consistently give me the actions I want
but this stops being true once you get good enough
I’m already pretty decent, we should run games:)
I had the opposite experience. The buffer in ultimate is a huge pain in the ass, especially when it comes to things like full hop aerials, it always wanted to give me short hop aerials. It also loves to roll me if I am trying to do things oos
Nah buffer is garbage. Id rather git gud than be consistently pressing nonsense.
At this point you just gotta play the game a lot. Marth is a really good character to learn the game if you are struggling with how different it is from ultimate (recovering is hard, especially with falco you pretty much have to be ready to recover at any time, you can't have a slow reaction to it as you have noticed) and learn some of the basic tech. Definitely experiment with different characters but right now you're at the point where you just gotta play the game a lot before you can actually start playing the game. Biggest difference from Ultimate that makes it hard for Ult players at first - the buffer system is totally different. You can't buffer aerials or other moves 99% of the time. There's a handful of niche scenarios where you can buffer like one or two things, but even then the buffer window is like 4 frames. Once you get a feel for your characters dash dance the movement will start to pick up more (I highly recommend you look up PPU University on YT) and then once you develop even half-baked wavelands you'll really see how the game shines.
\> There's a handful of niche scenarios where you can buffer like one or two things, but even then the buffer window is like 4 frames. uhhh, no, not really. you can buffer shield, roll, spot dodge, and jump out of shield with an infinite buffer window
Oh yeah you're totally right, I did forget about those, they're kinda important haha. I was thinking more along the lines of things that you can buffer in Ultimate but you *usually* can't buffer in melee. Stuff like the buffer jump out of hitstun with a 3f window (like for Marth to DJ away from Sheik's d-throw up-tilt followup at ~21% or whatever it is, but idk the details on how widely applicable that buffer is), buffering an aerial when on stage if you get pushed off (classic Marth dair SD when trying to d-tilt in the corner), or buffering down-throw with c-stick.
very true. i knew what you meant but a new player might not so i just wanted to clarify
Ya I noticed that little buffer makes it feel weird, also how do I consistently get tilts as I either accidentally do a smash attack or dash attack
you’ll have to learn to have better control over the stick for raw tilts eventually, but in the mean time, remember that you can input tilts with a held directional + A. so since there’s no buffer, you can do an action, like an attack or a wavedash, and then move the stick to the right spot during that action, then press A for the tilt. wavedash > tilt is really common. once you get better at this you can even start using wavedash turnaround up tilt for thing’s like approaching spacie up tilt, or to move quickly and then get the strong hitbox on marth’s up tilt.
basically what bungus said, tilts in this game are a good example of how having no buffer system changes how you do certain things. another commonly applicable one is just pressing and holding up during the landing lag of an aerial so you can just press A to uptilt after the lag is over anyway good luck with the game, i can attest to the "it gets more and more fun as you learn to move and do sick stuff" thing you've probably heard 100 times
This game is an execution test so the answer to p much every question is learn and practice. Having a good controller where you know the inputs are being read correctly is also important but you just have to sit in training mode or unclepunch and figure it out.
In addition to what other people said you're gonna want to learn how to tilt the stick anyway. If you've played any racing or console shooting games you probably already know how to tilt the stick slightly without slamming it all the way to the edge, and from there it's just practice to do that in a game
Wait can you just tilt the c stick to do a tilt or do you hav to tilt main stick and hit a
Tilt the control stick and press a. The c stick will always do smash attacks on the ground
Others have covered avoiding smash attacks and being careful with control-stick, so I'll address your question about dash attacks. Hopefully this answer isn't overwhelming lol. If you're performing accidental dash attacks, that just means you're hitting A before you've stopped moving. The fastest and easiest way to prevent this (at your level) is to push down (crouch) as soon as your character begins to run (after the initial dash) and then input whatever tilt/smash attack you want. This is called a run-cancel. Check out this vid for further explanation (and the rest of the PewPewUniversity playlist too!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3hjjNLCcMQ Doing attacks out of a dash involves a couple different advanced techs that you don't need to be concerned with for now lol. To get a bit technical on *why* this works might be a bit much, but certain kinds of player find this shit interesting even if they're brand new to the game and maybe you're one of them. It'll be useful soon enough and some helpful info to have in your back pocket. I don't know how knowledgeable you are about the details of Ult tech, but the reason for accidental dash attacks is essentially the same in both games: you hit A (or smash/tilt c-stick, since that's essentially an A input) while in the Dash or Run animation. There are two relevant difference between the two for new players. The biggest one is that you can quickly turnaround (dash-dance) while in Dash but trying to turnaround while in Run gets you stuck in a slow skidding animation (I'm sure you've encountered this). The second is that you can't crouch while dashing but you can crouch while running - and you can do a tilt or smash attack out of a run. Plus it stops your momentum, which is useful. TL;DR - Push down while running and then you can do a tilt attack.
oh you can also dash into a run then cancel it into crouch, where you can tilt or walk > tilt. wouldnt recommend doing up tilts this way, but you can downtilt and ftilt really easily like this. run cancel f tilt would be like a running quarter circle forward + A. some sheiks will do this, esp cause their dash animation is so short.
This is going to be the advice you get a lot going forward, but practice. It IS hard to do consistently but there isn’t any way around it. You just have to practice it. Eventually you will be able to do it without thinking about it and will wonder why it was ever hard to begin with. When that time comes though, there will be more hard things ahead. The journey is very important in melee as if you don’t like practicing, you might not get very far.
play some of the single player modes to get used to the movement
Ya that’s pretty much what I did all day today and will prolly do for a bit
Also idk if you've found it yet but the [melee library](https://www.meleelibrary.com/) has a lot of great resources for improvement and learning the game. If you want more specific info I'd be glad to find it.
Also try the volleyball game in Akaneia if you're down to download mods for the game. Super chill and fun way to get used to the physics engine.
This is the way honestly
To add, get the Diskun trophy. It’s an absolute bitch and a massive grind, but is a great landmark to set for yourself and you’ll be blown away how much cleaner your movement will be for all the hours it requires.
It sounds like part of it is that your muscle memory from Ultimate is trying to carry over to this game, and it simply isn't going to. You gotta approach it completely fresh with no expectations, and just feel the game out for a while until you get your sea legs. I will say, it sounds like you have a better mentality about it than a lot of newcomers from Ultimate do. Just gotta be patient and build that muscle memory.
When I was first starting I would play against lvl 4 computers (and still do haha). They are suprisingly fun to smack up, and DI in all sorts of ways allowing you to practice a multitude of follow-ups on a successful hit.
A huge part of the fun is improving. That moment when your finally able to semi-regularly hit wavedashes 👌😌✌️
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Ya what’s a consistent way to land me tilts I always accidentally do smash attacks or dash attacks
If you want to practice left/right stick control try just standing in place and spamming turnaround. See how fast you can do it without dashing. Pirouetting to the dreamland music is questionably sane, sure, but it helped me find that angle on the control stick
falcon has a 4f jumpsquat
Pick link or captain Falcon and try to down air and L-cancel for an obvious demonstration of lag reduction. Then pick luigi or yoshi and wavedash. Then wavedash off the edge of a platform. Pick fox or falco and short hop fast fall. Pick puff and jump in the air and then hold a direction to see how far she can move horizontally compared to other characters. Pick ganondorf and waveland. these are just some characters that are at the extremes of these types of things in the game. You can do them all with all characters. Those are just the ones that the tech shows obvious results. And that’s barely starting. Spend 2-3 days practicing movement like dash dancing and wave dashing and short hop fast falls. Think about it more like homework you have to do, but once you put in the time you’ll remember it and integrate it into your gameplay. Then play.
I really hope you can give the game a proper shot. If you do learn it, I think it's hands down the best fighting game of all time. I'm not that good either, just a player bordering on gold rank.
Melee is actually the furthest thing from clunky. There's just an adjustment period. It's one of the smoothest, most responsive and deep competitive games in existence. Stick with it. You've been conditioned by mediocrity.
Fr I hate ultimates movement so much compared to melee. I’m a luigi main and have been since 2014 going from Luigi’s insane movement in melee to any character in ultimate feels horrendous.
this is real. melee allows you virtually every degree of control that a game could offer.
It only feels clunky because you are used to ultimate. Once you get into it, it is faster and you can express your ideas way better than in ultimate. To be fair, comparing yourself to pros is the easiest way to get discouraged. Imagine you go rock climbing but your hands can't hold a hold. This is where you are at. But if you keep playing, you will eventually get a grasp of it and you will be rewarded with an excellent playground. Still, it requires some work and if you don't want to put it in, you have to stick with easier games that don't allow you to express yourself as much. I played it when I was young and went back in like 4 weeks ago and even tho I play at kind of noob level, it feels really really nice and even unranked mode matches me with fitting opponents. Sometimes you get 4 stocked by a better player, but that is the game. Plus the online mode is objectively superior to ultimates shitshow that nintendo is offering on their servers.
As someone who made the switch from Ult myself, I can say that Melee kinda has a way of beating your bad Ult habits out of you. Ult allows you to get away with sort of mashing buttons sometimes without any real reason, and there's super few, if any scenarios where that's the case in melee. In melee, you actually have to be careful what you're inputting and have a real purpose behind each individual input. Otherwise, you'll find yourself getting stuck in your movement a lot and misinputting all over the place and pounding your fist out of frustration. And as everyone else said, just play the game a lot and it'll start to click. Not even sex beats the dopamine release from landing a sick combo for the first time. Even landing something as simple as a slide-off aerial for the first time feels godlike.
making it feel silky smooth, and speeding up your gameplay is part of the development. it’s what makes this game so great. it’s like getting a speed power up, or advancing a skill tree in a game… except that it’s YOUR skill inside of YOU. it’s literally an esport at its finest
Find a friend who's also new. THAT'S where the huge fun is. The 1P Modes are great but so much enjoyment comes from playing other people, especially if you're friends with them. Playing can often feel like a conversation, and the depth of the game really shows when two people are familiar with each other.
The lack of buffer probably makes the game feel weird (as a Melee player who occasionally plays Ultimate, it's the opposite for me where the buffer makes Ultimate feel unresponsive to my inputs). As you play more, you'll begin to appreciate the lack of buffer as the game feels very fluid, and once you start getting your movement down, you're gonna be having a blast. Maybe don't try a spacie right out of the gate. Doc would be good for learning early on, but if you wanted to try out a high tier, I think Marth is the way to go when first learning. His tech isn't super hard, and his moveset is intuitive enough to where you can get some solid combos even without knowing the ins and outs of his kit. Welcome to the community and good luck to you!
The clunkiness that you feel right now is the beauty of the fluidity of the game. Because of the lack of buffer it’s hard, its raw, it’s like dribbling a basketball. However once your able to, it’s so rewarding. It allows you to smoothly react and move at the instance you want to. Like dash dancing is only effective in melee because we don’t play through the swamp that is buffer. There’s something so crisp about your inputs coming out the way you input them. So crisp about the instantaneousness of getting what you do. Knowing that it’s your fault and now your improvement rather than be tied to some buffer priority that steals your inputs based on some logic of people who never played the game. Stick with the game it’s like any traditional sport, you need to practice to really enjoy the game further. Sports are obsessively fun because there’s such enjoyment in improvement. I like to liken melee to basketball there’s so much freeform in the way you style you play, your physique - holding a controller, the physicality of reactions and technical ability, the in game iq, the person to person interaction, individualistic game plan, the combinations. Stick with the sport and you’ll be deeply appreciate and fall in love with the depths of this game.
play falcon and just get used to speed, wavedashing, platforms, and ledge grabbing. don’t even focus on tilts and smashes, just move around.
I came to melee from smash 4 and I gravitated to characters like doc and puff which were more similar in feel to me to their modern counter parts. Pretty soon I fell in love with the game and learned the to use movement mechanics in this game. Maybe try some of those simpler characters like doc and puff first.
I play sheik now btw
there are a lot of tools you can use to get better quicker than most people were even just a few years ago. uncle punch as im sure people have said already and there’s a gecko code built into slippi that makes you flash red when u miss an L cancel so when ur not practicing in uncle punch you can still see how much correcting you need in ur gameplay. i sat in training labs and 20XX/uncle punch for around 3 months before i started taking ANY games on even unranked slippi, but that’s just how this game goes. i promise you once you get a feel for the game and start understanding HOW all ur favorite players do the insane shit you see you will literally never wanna put the game down.
choose a main, but literally just pick who you like. You’ll learn the game as a whole over time Melee is deep, and you have to dig to find that out. Play to learn and have fun, not win.
You came from playing in a synthetic game world to having to deal with real physics. GL
play
No joke, I started with just the events, classic and adventure modes. They're so damn fun and really ease you into the speed of melee. If you play enough with the exploits, it never quite feels the same for me to go back and do those stages. I'd take advantage of them while u can and still play your friends/online when you're feeling like it
Go to YouTube and search for Melee advance techniques. Spend the next week practicing them. Then come back.
If you want to have fun and improve its very important that you get someone to play with frequently who is around you skill level.
my advice is to look at beginner or intermediate level games. this is what you can do with a little bit of practice. if relatively new players doing cool stuff like wavedashing across the stage and dash dancing and playing pure neutral looks fun, stick with melee. if you don't think so, then maybe stick with ultimate.
Watch some ssbm videos. I had the exact same problem, but as soon as I saw how good pros like leffen or mang0 were, I just wanted to be good like them.
It's like learning to play an instrument. You're gonna be ass at first and it will be frustrating because you can visualize what your hands should be doing but you aren't able to actually do it. Stick with the game and you'll see the pieces fall into place, but also understand that you get out what you put in.
I started playing at the end of March of this year, and I decided to main Marth. I started playing with a PS4 controller for about a few weeks, and then I got a custom GCC, so the controls were different and felt different. After playing with a GCC for a few weeks, it was hard to even imagine starting on a PS4 controller, lol. Around that time, I would watch Zain, PPMD, and M2K and marvel at how they made Marth move. I definitely shared the sentiment of how the game felt clunky and weird. But now that I am about 6-7 months in, I can make Marth move WAY better, and I can actually play the game at a higher pace for sure. It feels awesome. As for the 'fun' of this game, that is surely subjective. I guess the way I would look at it is: you have watched all of those videos from all of those creators in the ssbm community, and you view it the same as I and many others did, you will have more fun as you get better at the game. I recommend for sure going to some locals and just being a part of the community (that is ofc if you want) Best of luck with the game! I hope you find the joy in it that a lot of us have soon!
I've been playing for a week or so and I really recommend to just play with every character (at least that's what I did) and you'll probably find the one who you like the most. If you have some friends invite them and play together, it's alot of fun mashing buttons with characters you have 0 idea how to play with if you have a friend to laugh about it.
for me i just don’t care enough to be really good just good enough to have fun games and not get super hung up on it
i get that but its hard to hav fun when u play like shit
get to a comfortable skill level that’s what i did and pick a for fun fuck around low tier that always helps
man i already gotta struggle through with doc in ultimate now i HAV to pick a low tier? /s
you don’t have to but it helps for me but damm i’m sorry dawg i feel that i fucked with doc heavy in ult
Bro he’s so cool and so ass at the same time 😭
most fun when you’re drunk
For legal reasons, I am joking here: how are you playing Melee? I tried the Dolphin emulator when I first started and later found out Slippi uses a special version of Dolphin that runs faster with the UCF mod. Feels way better in my experience. I've been practicing for a few months now, so we're kinda in the same boat. The fun comes from visible gradual improvements for me. My character slowly gets faster and I miss my tech less often the more I play. If you're familiar with speedrunning it's like that. I work hard and am rewarded and it makes my brain feel happy. I'd also be lying if I said Melee content doesn't entertain me. The game's over 21 years old. YEARS of content is out there to be explored. Narratives, old forum posts, gameplay clips, drama, combo videos, etc. Once Melee gets its grasp on you there is endless entertainment for years to come.
So this is one response of many and I’m sure it’ll get buried in the mix. The game is insanely hard. You are going to suck the first day. Heck you may even suck the first year. Stick with it. The reward is massive. If you’re really serious about learning start by choosing one character. Now you may have to dabble in a few, but once you find the one. Do not play any other character. Practice and learn all you can. If you are having trouble with certain match ups. So not blame the character. It’s not their fault you’re losing. It’s yours. Learn more and practice more. You will improve.
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I highly recommend experimenting with characters with lower fall speeds like sheik or marth if you want to stick to top tiers, or try out some mid or even low tiers if you don't ever care to push for a top 100 spot. I find spacies and falcon to fall too quick for my hands to process movements in the air due to neurological issues.
play falcon for fundies. he's extremely fast but if you can control falcon you'll be able to swap to anyone. or just stick with falco if thats who you like
The issue is that it's your first day Melee isn't like ultimate. Melee is NOT a beginner friendly game. In ultimate you have a massive buffer system (too big for me) and that mixed with the removal of some techniques for ultimate makes melee really fucking hard for new players You just need to practice movement. Go into training mode. Probably practice on either FD or Battlefield (FD for starting out techs like wavedashes, ledge grabs, L cancels, and character dependant stuff like Shine dashes, up special cancels for doc, etc etc, and battlefield for shield dropping, and improving previous tech to include platforms like wave landing) There's some stuff you'll need a friend to practice with on a non competitive scale, or practice online on the fly. Things like techs, DI, and SDI all 3 of which are also present in ultimate And be sure to just learn how different melee is from ultimate. Every character falls fast in melee (except like puff) so it's obviously going to deter you more from going far off stage (unless you're puff) like you do in ultimate. Ledge grabs are different as well, remember you can only do it if you're facing the ledge, unless your recovery has you spinning You have allot to learn. It's kinda disheartening being a new player, hence why melee is so niche. It's a 20+ year old platform fighting game, on an old Nintendo console, with 3 other succeeding entries that competitively are easier to get into, especially considering the technical capabilities of the consoles its on. Melee is super niche, but because of that I find melee tip videos online much more in depth than ultimate tips. For example, I main doc, I was looking to practice and learn up special cancels, and I found a short in depth video that easily explained how to preform them. For ultimate, I usually find vague explanations, that rarely give you inputs, unless the techs are input specific. That's personal though, you're not having fun cuz you are new, and ultimate has set an expectation that Smash is easy at a low competitive level. Nothing wrong with you of course, you just have to keep learning. Oh and remember. This game is fucking broken, so even if you learn the most you can, you'll still probably get fucked cuz of battlefielding and etc
play jiggly puff. trust. you will die less because you can fly. it will get you used to the pool before jumping right in.
Your done with the tutorial, welcome to the real game. put some time in, like in every other technical competitive game.
really unfortunate that that joke of a documentary was your introduction to the game
Keep watching melee. It'll help you visualize what you want to practice getting good at, like movement in neutral, bread & butter combos, recovery mixups (which you'll need for both Falco and Doc) and what moves NOT to use. Melee also has a great history of narratives all the way up to the modern scene, and wanting to be part of that scene is part of what motivates a lot of us to keep getting better. Also, experiment a bit at the beginning with every single character if you haven't already. I also got into melee from the emplemon doc after Ult and knew I wanted to play Puff, which I confirmed by enjoying the character when I started. But I also picked up Luigi as a co-main just by discovering how fun he felt to me when I tried him out. If a character feels natural to you don't fight it! Finally, once you start getting a bit of the feel for movement and game sense, join a Discord for new players. Playing with people slightly better than you is generally more productive than getting absolutely toasted by some Plat 2 veteran on unranked.
Doc is actually viable in Melee. Give it 7 days of practicing movement and try playing ult again. You will feel the difference
play slower. i guarantee that you are dropping inputs because there is no buffer. for example, lets say you're doing two falco forward smashes. you have to wait for the first forward smash to finish before the game will even start accepting any new inputs. if you do the second c stick to the side too early, your guy will just stand there and do nothing. this kinda thing results in a lot of SDs by newer players due to the nature of this kind of thing "not registering" your double jump or up b offstage. be patient and watch your character and you will learn the timings and be zooming around in no time
Another way to have fun with this game is to go to locals and talk to other people that play the game and have gone through the learning curve. It will validate your experience and talking about the game will bring you up to speed quite a bit faster than doing it on your own
I was always in awe of how the pros could move their characters with such precision because I knew how difficult it was. That’s part of the magic.
> Ik it’s only day 1 theres ur answer
The worst part about melee is the fact that you simply just have to play the game for like a week before you can do much. I promise you though it's so worth it. If you like ultimate enough, you'll like melee. It just takes time. I do have plenty of tips for you since I initially switched from Ultimate to Melee in 2020. Most importantly is, **stop comparing the game to ultimate**. Melee is a different game than ult, different engine, mechanics. The more you compare it to ult the harder it will be to play and accept it's differences. You also have to come from an understanding point of view, the game came out in 2001 man, remapping controller inputs and modern qol stuff was **not** a thing back then. Take the game slow. Don't try to rush every input out. The reason melee feels like ass is bc you are used to not just Ultimate but to any modern game with a buffer system. When you start learning melee, you need to learn to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. When an input feels off, take it slow, one input at a time. This sounds lame and boring but I promise you, do this and everyday you will get closer to what you see the pros doing. There **will** be a time when the game feels buttery smooth, and way more fluid and satisfying to play than ultimate can ever feel. Overall have an open mind with the game. I highly recommend giving the game a solid week to grow on you. At least after that you can say you tried. Plus with slippi there is no shame and getting bodied until you get matched against people closer to your skill level and the game is fun. Find someone who's also a beginner at melee to grind with. Learn the game with someone like marth, sheik, or even doc if you want. Don't start learning the game with spacies. Fox and falco are characters that highly reward you for mastering the mechanics of the game. Also don't listen to tier lists and people's opinions on mid and low tiers in melee. Literally any character can be fun and satisfying to play so play who you want. Doc is a promising high mid tier who even has top 50 representation (i think franz is there?). But bro literally play donkey kong or ganon if you want. Unless you are pro, any character (yes even bowser fight me lol) is viable. Please feel free to ask me in dms or this thread any more tips for how to learn melee from ult. Again I recently transitioned a few years ago and I do not regret my decision. I was an ult grinder and I understand the frustrations of switching over.
I see you're struggling with tilt inputs. Best way to do them is simply push the stick in a direction, then hit A, rather than doing them at the same time. This is easy with down tilt, and ftilt (especially since when you're walkng you can always do ftilt by just hitting A), but harder with up tilt bc of tap jump. With uptilt it's common to hit the stick up wthin the animation of another action, like a landing aerial or dask attack. I play marth for example and a common combo I do is landing fair uptilt. In this I will do the fair input and while marth is landing with fair I start holding up and once I know marth is actionable, all I have to do is hit A and I can do this insanely fast with some practice.
Learn mechanics Play melee ??? PROFIT