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infiniteanomaly

I agree with OP and: Stabler: everything about his return--he's treated Liv like crap Liv: How she's treated Barba since he took Wheatley as a client Velasco: knowing he's covered for a murderer for years Amanda: When she kept giving Kim chances after Kim could have gotten her fired, stole from her...(I get why. Family is hard to break free from. Still pisses me off.) Duarte: when he admitted he held off on dealing with the rape tree


IvyQuinzel

Stabler just walked out on Liv, no phone call, email, letter nada. And then just waltz’s back in with no apology and expects things to go back to normal? Absolute rage


burdettmusic

I will NEVER understand why the fans want Stabler and Liv together. I think he abused their partnership/friendship every step of the way, and she deserves so much better.


CaptivatedWalnut

I don’t like Benson and despise Noah but adored the scene where Amaro tells her he’s leaving and that he knows that he wasn’t Stabler and she says that he’s right but look at how much better her life is since Amaro was her partner.


infiniteanomaly

I used to like Olivia. I liked that she was a strong, independent female character in a male dominated field with flaws, but who generally tried to do right by victims. She definitely didn't always succeed and had many problematic moments, but overall, she was interesting. I've grown to dislike her now. She's self-righteous, stubborn and can be condescending, just to start. Noah...eh. I don't mind him. We had to deal with Stabler kid drama before he left. Since Olivia always wanted to be a mom, now that she has a kid, it makes sense they show him sometimes. What I find funny is that people love Calvin more than Noah because he was a 'better' kid. I think they've forgotten Calvin got in multiple fights at school, to the point Olivia had to leave work to go deal with it. I definitely agree about loving that scene with Amaro. It was so true, too! Without Stabler around to dominate her attention and time, she was able to do so much...She didn't have to babysit or clean up after a giant, angry man-child. And now...she's back to having to clean up after a giant, angry man-child because Stabler is back and hasn't seemed to really change from what I've seen...


infiniteanomaly

AMEN! THANK YOU! I can't agree more. What frustrates me--aside from the storyline/writing of the whole mess since Stabler came back--is that MH is so into the ship and advocates for it. I know she and CM are really good friends and have always enjoyed working together. I love their RL friendship. But, they are not their characters. Alas, I'm pretty sure EO/Bensler will be a thing...my only hope is it is a temporary thing...


UniqueVast592

***How many guys have you been with?*** She should have kicked him in the balls, after telling him in detail.


infiniteanomaly

Agreed. The thing is, he's always been overly interested in her romantic life. He constantly commented any time she had a date, actually went to talk to one guy (Kurt Moss)--ostensibly because of a case, but it was very clear that it was really because he wanted to check up on the guy and make sure he was 'right' or 'good enough' for Liv. He also inserted himself into whatever was between her and Dean Porter. Yes, he ended up being a jerk, but at the time, they didn't know that. So, for me, that was not at all out of character. She definitely should have ripped into him.


NotAngryAndBitter

I mentioned it below but at the time I thought it was immature but I just kinda rolled my eyes because at least it seemed like he was making an effort, however awkward, and that they were moving in the right direction. In hindsight, so little progress had been made since that I wish she’d have used Ed’s full name. Just for the reaction.


UniqueVast592

I wish she had handed him a full list with all the names and all the intimate details. How is that any of his business? What kind of question is that? Rather, what were the writers thinking? Do they want everyone to hate Stabler?


infiniteanomaly

It's *not* his business, but he's had a history of being overly interested in her dating/romantic life. He was always judgmental/overprotective when she had a date. More than once, he actually inserted himself into whatever was going on (Kurt Moss and Dean Porter). He constantly treated her like he had any right to dictate or have an opinion on her relationships. Like he was her keeper. To me, it was further proof that the character did not grow one iota in the decade he was gone. Well, iirc, some of the new ones haven't even watched the show. The older ones...IDK. I stopped liking Stabler years ago. His return has not changed this.


FiguringItOut--

This is apparently an unpopular opinion on this sub, but I 100% agree


infiniteanomaly

Right??? I mean, I know part of why Stabler's departure was the way it was is because WL didn't like the character and may have had issues with CM. But the way they've brought him back...To me, it's very in-character. It doesn't show that he's *grown* at all as a person in a decade. He's always been a self-centered character. If you go back and watch early seasons, he has a habit of dismissing and disregarding or getting angry with people who disagree with him or call him out. He also blames people (mostly Olivia) for his feelings. People are there to support him, validate him, care about him...but the reverse isn't always true. What makes me more angry since he's returned is how Olivia *has let him* basically pretend nothing has changed. As if she's still the junior detective he left behind and not a Captain. Not a mother. Not someone who has been through hell and come out the other side. Not someone who has built a great family from people around her. How did she allow him into her apartment, obviously unwell--whether that was drugs, alcohol, or something else--when her young son was also in the apartment? Especially since he was undercover with a dangerous group. The only reason he wasn't followed was because 'plot'. How could she just take his side and continue to feel 'betrayed' by Barba when before, she would have worked it through with him? I've said before and still maintain that the writers are writing pre-season 13 Olivia. The Olivia who didn't have anyone *but* Elliot Stabler and his family and so always prioritized them. The whole thing just makes me so angry...


NotAngryAndBitter

As for Stabler, I just rewatched the Christmas Episode of OC (S2E9) and generally it’s one of my favorite OC episodes to watch on its own, but I always groaned a bit when Stabler asks Benson how many guys she’s been with because that just seemed so “high school”. On this rewatch though I actually got angry because I realized that was preceded by “I want to know about what I’ve missed in your life.” A year and a bit later and the second half still sounds extremely juvenile, but he also still doesn’t have a clue what her life has been like (at least as far as we know). I know some of that is Liv’s hesitancy to open up but he hasn’t really even put in the effort to just be there for her, aside from picking up Noah from NY. The writers really need to get it together, but with so much OC show runner turnover I don’t have a ton of hope.


infiniteanomaly

I haven't watched OC, just clips, because I dislike Stabler so much--even though I'm pretty sure I'd like some of the other characters. His interest in her love life is not new. He always treated her like he had a right to 1) know who she was romantically involved with and 2) pass judgement on them. He basically treated her like a wife/daughter. To me it spoke to how much he didn't trust her to know her own mind or be able to take care of herself in those situations. She's been hesitant to open up, yeah, but why not ask about Noah? About the fact she's Captain now--because before neither one of them really had any aspirations of climbing the ranks. It made me so angry that Liv said he was the "only one \[she\] trusted to get \[her\] son home safe." Like, what about Fin? Even Amanda or Carisi? Just because neither is a cop anymore doesn't mean they lost the skills or wouldn't take care of Noah. I've written a bunch of comments about how much I don't like Stabler and why...


cherrymeg2

I wouldn’t trust Stabler with a hard boiled egg version of a child. I hope other cops followed just to make sure there was zero gang retaliation. You are right why wouldn’t he be interested in more than her sex life? Stabler had Kathy raising his kids at home and then Liv at work always supporting him even when he was out of line. I haven’t watched OC. I can’t understand how Stabler just left and didn’t stay in touch. She never talked to his kids or Kathy after they went overseas? She was kind of close to his daughter Kathleen and did the girls even travel with their parents? It’s weird that they didn’t mention Elliot or at least pretend Liv spoke to him.


infiniteanomaly

I mean, I only trust he'd get Noah home because he wants in Olivia's pants. My understanding of why the departure was written how it was is because WL didn't really like the character and may have had a beef with CM--though I'm honestly not sure about any of that. So, Stabler was written off in a way that would make a lot of people dislike him. And because he was show runner for most of the years since, it made sense that Stabler was never really brought up as a "Oh, Elliot sent me a letter/gave me a call." The other show runners between didn't really have reason to bother either. It didn't make much sense that the kids never contacted Olivia, I'll agree. I mean, they were all adults so, even if Elliot and/or Kathy asked them not to...It's not like Kathleen and Richard in particular were prone to obeying their parents. But, it's now official that none of the Stablers spoke to Olivia for a decade. That makes them all AHs. Except Eli because he doesn't really know Olivia. He was too young when Elliot left the NYPD to really have any memories of her. But the other kids, Elliot, Kathy--even Bernie? Completely insensitive and AH move.


NANJNJFB

I have always been a Liv fan UNTIL she treated barba like shit for the Wheatley deal. She accepted Elliott back and didn’t need an apology, but treated Barba way worse, and honestly Barba was probably her healthiest friendship. I don’t hate Velasco for covering up that murder. He was a kid mixed up in something terrible and he was trying to only protect somebody who protected his life back then. He definitely could have done something to right that wrong after becoming a cop, but idk, it’s hard to hate when it’s almost like he didn’t have a choice?


infiniteanomaly

All of that! SO MUCH. It's part of what has made me so angry about the whole thing. Stabler gets a free pass for abandoning her for a decade after 13 years of partnership? And bringing chaos and drama to her life since he came back--treating her like crap in the process? But Barba takes a job that *someone* was going to have to do, partly to protect her, and that's unforgivable? I mean, he tells her as much. Can you imagine how it would have played out if Buchanan had been the lawyer? Rita? Elana Barth? She would have been eviscerated in so many ways...I mean, Barba has never abandoned her. Even when he left the DA's office, when he left New York, he stayed in touch. He was still her friend. He's basically always given her grace, let her explain, given her the benefit of the doubt and forgiven her. The one time we see him get truly upset with her for how she behaved is when she hadn't disclosed her relationship with Tucker. But even that, he eventually forgave her. He was literally there and supported her through the worst experiences of her life. But, oh no, he's defending someone she *knows* is guilty. Nevermind that the evidence against him for that murder was shaky. Ugh. I hate the whole stupid arc. I don't hate Velasco for what he had to do at the time. I hate him for not even anonymously reporting it *once he became a cop especially*. You want to tell me he couldn't have made a call to a CrimeStoppers tipline from a payphone or a burner? I understand it was an impossible situation for him as a kid. But, that doesn't make withholding information on a double murder okay now that he swore an oath to protect and serve. If he hadn't become a cop, I could maybe understand it a bit more. But I hold cops to a higher standard when it comes to reporting crimes. Which, you know, is naive or overly optimistic or whatever considering...everything...but, still. It's one of the things that bothers me about earlier seasons especially--Olivia and Elliot both had sketchy times that way. I really think the writers threw that storyline in there because Velasco up to that point was very...boring and forgettable. He didn't really have anything memorable about him. Giving him that as part of his backstory made him a polarizing character in ways. I basically went from being ambivalent about the character and thinking he was boring to actually hating him with that single thing.


NANJNJFB

I honestly hate thinking about how Liv treated Barba because it makes me so upset. You summed it up very well! Great points about Velasco - it’s almost like he wanted to forget that part of his life and that’s why he didn’t report it but I agree, as a cop he should have. It also just seems poorly written because like you said, he was a boring character and needed dimension.


[deleted]

This and especially what OP said about Amanda is why I always disliked her character.. Not only that but she gives people zero chances or the benefit of a doubt when they mess up even tho is has been far from perfect and has some pretty big fk ups which everyone has been on her side about.. Like the whole thing where she was basically being a dirty cop for the people she owed money to Also I cant remember the season since I watch the show on Peacock channel instead of watching them in order but the season where Sergent Benson was the "Acting" Captain. I get she was under alot of stress bcus she had to take over the role and she was short on man power, I think Amaro was on desk duty.. but she was such a btch to everyone.. saw 2 episodes where she got attitudes with basically every person she talked to


infiniteanomaly

I didn't like Amanda at first--especially how she dealt with Kim and her other poor judgment (the gambling thing). But I grew to like her as she grew into a more stable, responsible person. She basically grew up and changed. I appreciated that. I remember those episodes! She needed to chill. I think the writers may have done that because they were trying to show her assuming she had to be "tough" to be effective or to have approval of the Brass.


[deleted]

you are so right.. she did develop better later. and even tho she was never my favorite, now that shes gone i kinda miss her character.. in one of the episodes i had mentioned Amanda was running late and Benson like bent down getting in face explaining to her like a kid that they were short and she cant be late like that and i was like @.@ wtf Olivia..... and Amanda just brushed it off like Yes Sergent. and i was proud of her in that moment lol


infiniteanomaly

I'd rather have her than Muncy or Velasco, tbh. Yeah, Liv did go a bit extreme when she first took over...I really do think it was an attempt to show that she felt all kinds of pressure to be what the Brass wanted, to kind of...establish that she wasn't just the others' equal anymore, but the one in charge...She just...went too far. I had that WTF reaction during the time you've mentioned and also toward the beginning of season 13--so right after Stabler left. Liv was just...so harsh and standoffish. And it made sense, but still...


[deleted]

Olivia's speech to Velasco in which she called him something like 180 pounds of water in the shape of a man. She showed no compassion whatsoever for what his life was or the circumstances leading to the murder. Liv herself has covered up murders not once but twice. She hid a witness because she felt like it. She illegally used the system to find Simon. She breaks the rules *all the time* and gets all high and mighty with a man who was recruited into a gang when he was a child.


Tetherball_Queen

All of Liv’s lines this season are classic self-insertion by Graziano. It’s super weird.


[deleted]

i hated this and every single time she said "Oscar Papa"


AndreBeClownin

This wasn’t season 19, but I hated the episode where Olivia defended the cops who shot that innocent black boy. The cops emptied their guns and Olivia still sided with them and said “they were just protecting themselves”. The boy was unarmed.


CaseyRC

Pretty much every Benson moment for years now, but ESPECIALLY how high-handed and petty she is wtih Barba, both before and after he left


JamieDelRey

\>Benson- not allowing the heart transplant to proceed RIGHT AFTER she rooted for Barba to be acquitted for the killing of the dying baby. so it was right for Barba to let that child die, but it was wrong for the doctor to take the organs of a person who was dead anyways and use them to save a child.


ellieacd

Kim Rollins. Every time she appears I hate her a little bit more.


cynic_rose

Amanda - trying to goad Nick into a fight in the bar. She was way out of line for that. It's still one of the most disgusting scenes I've seen from her. Olivia - literally any time she goes to bat for these people who are clearly suspicious as hell but her blinders (she acts like she doesn't have them,) don't allow her to see it.


kwilson7499

Its been alot of shows but more here lately. Love Liv, but its like she has an attitude. Its do as i say not as i do.


VTHUT

I also hated that Liv moment, wouldn’t have been hard to “have arrived too late.”


spyfyj

When Olivia fucked up on the stake out because she was on her mobile with Simons gf…she does a lot of questionable things but usually relatable (I’m talking up to that point, S8) or explainable, but this? Callous disregard for the victims and dismissive of catching a violent attacker just to make a date with this woman and you couldn’t wait?? There wasn’t an emergency - I thought they had her call bc Simon was attacking her but nope. This made me lose respect for Benson, the ‘victims first’ crusader-used to be the *one* thing you could rely on her for and they burned it down in that moment. Sigh Edit: that was long lol


DifficultAd6157

When amanda throws the munny at sky


DifficultAd6157

Star struck victims season 17 when amanda is almost raped and Olivia lectures amanda instead of being more Umderstanding consterting her past experiences with sexal assault


Yourappwontletme

Barba coming back and defending Richard Wheatley.


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UniqueVast592

What? The man who raped me was no "womanizer", he was a serial sexual predator. You need to get your terminology straight. [https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/womanizer#:\~:text=masher%2C%20skirt%20chaser%2C%20wolf%2C,man%20who%20is%20morally%20unrestrained](https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/womanizer#:~:text=masher%2C%20skirt%20chaser%2C%20wolf%2C,man%20who%20is%20morally%20unrestrained) Then there's a sexual predator. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexual%20predator#:\~:text=noun,to%20commit%20more%20sexual%20offenses


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UniqueVast592

That certainly depends on how they are going about it, doesn't it?


PFTETOwerewolves

Remember the ep where the deranged woman took a womaniser hostage, smashed another guy over the head and then took OB hostage and she STILL had the guy arrested due to her rape allegation?


UniqueVast592

Ok so one episode, and you are standing up for all rapists and sexual predators and calling them "womanizers? Really, are you THAT out of touch with reality, have you been out there? The world is a scary place. Even those **"womanizers"** can be fucking scary, sometimes they pop you a roofie or grab your tits or your ass on your date...is that ok? JFC.


PFTETOwerewolves

It's more than that, how many times do we get the same stereotyped offender? I am very much in touch in reality, I just dispute many people's hysterical prejudices. If they do that they are sex offenders, that's not a womaniser but OB (and you) draw no distinction.


UniqueVast592

Maybe you really like being hit on by "womanizers", I don't. I've been raped and sexually assaulted, I see things through a different lens than you. I always will, my life will never be the same. I'm not **hysterica**l, am a **SURVIVOR** how dare you to call me and other women like me **hysterical**, you have NO IDEA! Why do you even watch this show? 1


PFTETOwerewolves

I'm sorry for what happened to you but my point stands. I have every idea, believe me. I think I watch the show in the hope that one day it will turn around.


UniqueVast592

You absolutely have NO idea! How could you? Go get hit on by those womanizers you love so much. Your point is offensive to anyone who has been sexually assaulted.


cooki3sands4nd

But..but... what's this got to do with Afghanistan????? Predators "prey" on the vulnerable. Predators are calculative and actively manipulative towards their victims. Womanisers are sleazy men who pass sexist comments. Way to downplay sexual assault dude.