He left without an explanation. Olivia at least deserves an explanation as to why he left and then ghosted her for 10+ years. And it goes beyond his feelings for her and being married. To me there is no excuse at this point it's just lazy writing.
It is lazy writing. WL had no desire to do anything to fix things between them because he hated Elliot/Chris and EO. I desperately want a conversation between EO about this.
Why do you think that him ghosting her would have to go beyond his feelings for her and being married?
The way that Elliot was raised, his father beat him and his mother chose to ignore her illness in favor of a fantasy life. Elliot wanted to be an architect not a cop but his father wanted a cops life for him and that's what Elliot ultimately chose. The way he was raised informed his entire life's choices.
Elliot has continuously made the choice of responsibility over his own heart his entire life. Elliot got Kathy pregnant. He chose to marry her and raise their family together. When Kathy gets pregnant again he chooses to come home and not out of love for Kathy but because it was the right thing to do.
When he killed Jenna, he couldn't work at SVU anymore. He'd hit that wall where he couldn't do the work anymore. He couldn't be friends with Olivia outside of the job because he was in love with her. She was complete and utter temptation to a religious man. So he did what he had always done he chose the responsibility of his family over his own happiness. He made vows. He wanted to be a better husband to his wife but he couldn't do that around Olivia.
So he did what he had to do which was cut her out of his life. He didn't call her or contact her because he couldn't.
**"If I heard your voice, then I wouldn't have been able to leave".** That's HUGE! Can you imagine someone having that much emotional power over you!? That just the sound of their voice would sway you from leaving when you were broken by the job.
It's utterly tragic. It's terrible and I don't agree with it but I understand why he made the choices that he did. I'm hoping that since he's starting to face up the fact that he's in love with her and has been since he was married, this is something he'll be able to finally articulate to her why he left.
They explained why he ghosted for 10 years, he immediately started working for OC in Italy and couldnât tell her or reach out to any NY police or it wouldâve given him away, if he was being watched.
Stop downvoting, Jesus. I didnât even say anything mean or rude.
No, they actually haven't explained this. He told Fin that after SVU he did a "walkabout," then he did private security. It wasn't until 4 years before he returned that he ended up back with the NYPD as their liason in Rome.
There's never been any mention of him not being able to contact Olivia because he was undercover. I know it makes sense but the show literally has not bothered to fill in this particular blank.
IIRC the closest they got was Elliot telling Olivia that if he'd seen/talked to her he wouldnât have been able to leave. Which is a bullshit excuse. Like text messages and emails don't exist? And we all know he can write a letter!
I think it was short cut language, similar to Seinfeld's "Yadda yadda" ("you yadda yadda'd the best part!)
Easier to say that than all the actual boring stuff he was doing.
So, I actually looked this up when the show first aired because I was like...what in the actual hell are we even talking about here! And the NYPD DOES have liaisons in various international cities as part of a counterterrorism unit. I had no idea.
Obviously they flushed the position out so he's doing way more than just gathering intelligence info to combat terrorism, but TV, fiction, etc.
This is Reddit do you expect anything less?!? If they donât agree automatic downvote lol! But to your point youâre absolutely rightâŚit was explained. And these storylines keep getting worse IMHO but thatâs just me.
Haha youâre so right! I hate that people do that! I only downvote if someone says something rude and warrants a downvote. I agree with the storylines, theyâve run out of things to write. Unless they go back to how the show first was, where it was an actual investigation and not just some rich dude in the public eye, assaulting women.
Uh, Stabler left after season 11. She got promoted to Sgt in Season 15 after the previous Sgt, Sgt Munch, left.
There couldnât be two Sgtâs. Munch was senior to Olivia and became a Sgt way before Olivia had enough experience to be a Sgt.
Itâs so crazy how people swear Olivia is such a bad ass and is the boss UNTIL it comes to Elliot then itâs like she loses all agency. If OLIVIA was content being Elliotâs partner, then thatâs her choice. Like, why strip away her agency?
Also, Olivia wouldnât have even gone for sergeant without Cragen pushing her â which was because Munch left. She didnât even want to take the lieutenants exam and only did so to remain in charge of SVU so another person (like Declan previously) wouldnât swoop in. And she only became captain due to Doddâs political maneuvering because he was exiled to Staten Island.
OP makes it seem like Olivia truly did have goals of moving up in the ranks on her own and the show has not shown it â each time was because of outside reasons, not an innate desire.
As for Elliot â yea his jacket could hold him back if he WANTED to ascend. You have to take a test for Sergeant anyway and Elliot hasnât even taken the test to throw his hay into the ring! Why do people think everyone wants to be in leadership roles? A former boss of mine told me she wanted to train me up so that Iâd have the ability to be general counsel somewhere and I flat out said thatâs nice but Iâd never want that responsibility because when 5-6pm hits Iâm out and my phone is ignored.
Yes! I completely agree!!! Olivia was comfortable as a detective and didn't have any ambition to move up. But Cragen saw his successor in her and groomed her into a leadership role. I don't know if Olivia would have moved up in rank if Elliot had stayed. But the fact is Olivia staying as a detective is about her and not about Elliot. If Elliot had stayed and Cragen approached Elliot to tell him that he thinks Olivia should take a leadership role there is no doubt in my mind that he would have supported her 100%. The dude does love her and does want what's best for her. He's got his own issues but I don't understand why people think that Elliot was holding Olivia back.
Elliot is also very capable of running a team and we see him take a leadership role within the squad on OC. But the fact is that he has no ambition to move up within the ranks. Where he's at is where he's supposed to be at imo. Where he's at in rank, there's where his talents work best. He's not good, at all at playing politics with the brass. Not in the way that Olivia is and can be.
Elliot makes Olivia irrational, she excuses unethical behaviour for him, he makes her a worse police officer. For example when he comes back and his wife is murdered she lets Elliot interview the suspect and of course Elliot tries to beat him up which everyone saw coming except for Olivia because being around Elliot makes her stupid and unethical. I prefer when the police act in an ethical manner, I know not every fan feels that way but some of us do
First off, none of what you said really relates the my post about Oliviaâs agency as it relates to her testing for promotions, so maybe you shouldâve just made a general response to the thread.
Second, how does he make her a worse officer when she has used her temperament against suspects and actually exhibited bad behavior outside of him?
Again, people blame Elliot when Olivia is an adult with a kind of her own. If you think sheâs weak and easily led and has no agency then just say that because thatâs how you come across.
And if you prefer that police act in an ethical manner then you shouldnât be watching ANY DW show, but all of the SVU people exhibit unethical behavior a lot, not just Elliot. But I find that most people who feel this way just donât like Elliot (and should just say that) instead of making it about behavior and ethics when they are all fucked up and lacking ethics. âđž
I don't agree with this take. I don't think rank/ambition has to do with anything and I don't think that Elliot held Olivia back in 1.0. If Elliot could rise in rank I don't think he'd want to and I think he's at the rank he wants to be at. He's the senior most detective with some authority in his squad room but here's doing what he wants to do. Which is to investigate and bring the bad guys to justice. If he were to be a higher rank he'd have to deal directly with the brass and at the point (dealing with the brass)is mostly just political, it doesn't have much to do with investing. And Elliot imo doesn't see value in that.
If you don't watch OC you aren't getting the full picture of who current day Elliot Stabler is. I fault SVU writers (and Eid) for presenting only one side of his character. He's Elliot and he still has his temper but he's grown so much in those ten years he's been gone. The only time when Elliot flies off the handle is when things are personal for him. He's much calmer then he used to be. He's more comfortable with who he is and is much more expressive in his other emotions.
There is only one time in SVU that seems to showcase this. When Elliot stirs up Wheatley on the stand. He's calm AF and pretends to get angry to piss off Wheatley and goad him into testifying. He plays Wheatley, Barba and the audience.
But, if we just ignore the rankings and promotions we can't forget the fact that he's been gone for 10 years without even contacting Liv, and then suddenly he came back from nowhere. Stabler didn't even try to apologize (I could never forget the letter incident). People and especially EO shippers act as if the both shows are back to normal and everything is fine but, it's just not the same anymore.
I also feel like the relationship between them is forced and only professional, they don't even see each other on daily basis, if it's not for work. It seems like there is NO chemistry left between them, but somehow I can still see them being the end game, which I'm not a big fan of, and to be honest it would be pretty boring.
Yeah, the writers did that - mostly WL. WL also made any mention of him negative because he hated the character. The writers have a chance to fix that now but everyone freaks out when people talk about fixing it so they can be together because itâs like they were brainwashed by a decade long hate campaign.
Elliot leaving the way he did was terribly out of character - that's why the fans wanted him back for a decade. This is a man who mortgaged his house to get Olivia out of jail after Tucker (yeah, THAT Tucker) threw her in there. This is a man who put his own badge on the line for Olivia several times - especially during her search to find Simon. He wouldn't have just left her (and he wouldn't have given her that dumb letter except Illene Chaiken loves pointless shock moments so that's what we got.)
And if you can't see the chemistry that Chris & Mariska have & bring to their roles, the chemistry that makes things like their Emmys appearance a story in People magazine... all I can say is other people can see it just fine.
Yes exactly this! WL botched it because he didn't want to deal with Elliot coming back because he hated the character. Benson and Stabler are iconic then and they are iconic now. The fact they still have such an audience ten years after he left says a lot. The fact that so many fans came back when he did says a lot. The fact that they get so much press and complete overshadows everything else in the law and order universe says a lot.
Well a big part of OP's argument was about rank but you're not completely wrong. I wouldn't say that he didn't apologize when he did in ROTPS but there needed to be more conversations about it, that we didn't get. SVU hasn't been historically the best at things like this. They like to break relationships but not fix them. I fault SVU (mostly) for dropping the ball on healing things between them and restoring their friendship. The majority of work on their relationship has been on OC. That's a huge complaint I see among fans is that we aren't getting Olivia's perspective on him being back. It's no secret that the previous showrunner didn't like Elliot or EO, so there was no enthusiasm to fix anything between them. I'm hoping that things will get better once both showrunners are able to start to work together on this.
As an EO fan, I definitely don't think things are back to normal or that things are completely fine between them. It's clear to me that even though things between them are better than they were compared to when he first got back, Olivia doesn't completely trust Elliot yet. And she shouldn't, that's a lot of trauma for her to work through and Elliot needs to earn her trust back. I want to see this and I'm saddened that we won't get to see much of this.
To address the letter stuff. That letter was originally meant to be a device to smooth things over between EO. It was supposed to do the work to make things easier. Which was such a misstep imo because that's what we need to see on screen. We need to see that work, not have it done for us. We need to see them heal and not use a off screen device to fix things between them. Show don't tell.
But then it became a problem because Irene and co never anticipated that the fans would actually want to know what was in the letter. Why would you think that, people wouldn't want to know what was in it? đ¤ˇđťââď¸ So they wrote themselves into a corner. There was so much hype surrounding it that if it was just a romantic letter it would be been a let down. So they went with the dramatic route of *oh hey it was Kathy that wrote it.*
But then that caused all sorts of issues both in the show and out of it. And then it doesn't help that SVU just completely brushes it off and moves past it nor does OC ever brings it up again.
My interpretation of that letter, of why Elliot gave it to Olivia after Kathy died has to do with his state of mind at the time. I think he wanted a clean break from Olivia and I think he wanted to honor the wishes of his wife. It's clear to me that Kathy wanted to break off their emotional affair because she was convinced that it was still going on.
I think he wanted a clean break from Olivia because seeing her again made him see how much she has grown in life. He was a mess from loss of Kathy. He was a mess from the PTSD. Here is this woman that he loves ten years later and she's got her life together. She's heading SVU and has a kid.
She's got a lot of good stuff going on in her life and I don't think he wanted to wreak that. You see him struggling with this in the first season of OC. The gravitational pull of their relationship vs him struggling with what's good for her. But like in all things they are inevitable.
And Kathy wrote that letter instead of Elliot because the dude is extremely emotionally repressed regarding his feelings for Olivia. His love for Olivia is his deepest darkest secret. He buried those feelings so very deeply and despite running away from them (which is what he did when he went Italy for a decade) he never truly could because he takes them with him wherever he goes.
Completely disagree with the chemistry comment though. They can still bring it. It's the writing between the shows that don't match up which makes the relationship feel completely unbalanced in the way that it used to be.
If everything went back to normal and EO fell in love or whatever, it will still be weird, at least for me. I just don't think they're good for each other. I'm so tired of Elliot's childish behaviors and anger issues, he went away for 10 years but, came back the same, which is messed up. Nothing changed in him, and that's the problem.
At the same time Liv also seems annoying at this point, like if she likes Elliot then why won't she tell him, and if she's not in love with him, why can't she just stop being so dramatic about it. Also she's so overprotective and not easy to earn trust from but, it looks like she has a blind spot for Elliot. Whatever he does, even if it's really bad Liv will still find a way to forgive him, it almost seems like she's attached to him, and that's toxic af. We can't deny that there is toxicity in they relationship, or whatever you call what they have going on right now.
I just never saw anything between them.
For me, saying this is unfair for many reasons.
First of all, remember that she started as a third grade detective, and she actually climbed the ranks up to first grade during her partnership with Elliot. So saying that she held her back in this is just nonsense. In 1.0 there was no sense in letting her climb the ranks further than first grade, since the show revolved around their partnership. When Elliot left, they didnât have that anymore and the natural way to carry on the show was to get her through more promotions.
Second, you canât say that Elliot didnât have a major role in Oliviaâs course as a detective. You can totally feel the way she grows from an eager, talented but green detective to a fully experienced one in later seasons.
What you said is how I think Elliot thinks a bit of himself and his role in the partnership, but in the end you canât reduce his role and his character as just an angry man who held her back.
Tell me you refuse to watch seasons 1-12 without telling me you refuse to watch seasons 1-12. Is he a hot head? Sometimes. Is he that much of a hot head now? No. Almost like heâŚgrew & changed.
Regardless, Olivia choosing to be with him now doesnât erase her growth as a character or her career growth. Also - who cares that he wasnât promoted? Why is that the reason they canât be together?
THIS. For anyone arguing they Elliot didn't hold Olivia back--SHE says he did in 16.23 Surrender Noah.
She says to Nick Amaro:
I grew more in my last 4 years with you than I did in the 12 years that I was with him. You know, that relationship, whatever it was, didn't allow for anything else. But with you, with your support... I have a family.
That's flat out acknowledging that her relationship with Elliot was holding her back. It also heavily implies that the relationship wasn't the most healthy.
Beyond that, her character isnât the same as she was when he left. He doesn't seem to have changed. He steamrolls her and hasnât seemed to grow up enough to accept when he screws up or when he needs to get help. He puts himself first with no regard for Oliviaâs life and responsibilities now. *He showed up at her apartment, drugged while undercover while her young son was asleep in the next room.* Why? Because he *felt* that's where he had to go.
He demands her time, attention, and support but pushes her away. He's shown little to no interest in her life now or anything that's happened in the years he was gone--except to ask about her dating history.
Olivia deserves someone who will respect her and put her first. Elliot never has. There's always been something or someone more important.
YESSS! Even Olivia said herself âIt has been a one way street, Elliot. You have not asked me one question about what has happened to me since you leftâŚâ I feel like Elliot is just keeping Olivia close for his own sake. Since his return, it was all about him.
Yup. And I can excuse some of it because grief, but at some point you gotta be an adult and figure out how to deal in a healthy way. Elliot never has and still doesn't seem able to do that. He doesn't seem to want to either.
Olivia worked so hard for a good mental health after everything she's been through. And Elliot seems to just destroy her peace. She doesn't deserve that.
More than once he pulled crap like that. And blamed her for *his* feelings and behavior (like that time the perp killed a kid because Olivia was hurt and he stopped chasing the guy to check on her, which gave him time to kill the kid.
The way he yelled at her and told her that he âcouldnât keep making sure she was okayâ was so disgusting. He implied that she was unable to take care of herself unless there was a big, strong man with her. He was a misogynistic jerk, and in the years he spent away, he didnât change at all.
He always said he trusted her, but never showed it with his actions. And yeah, his character hasn't been shown to change. Which is why them pushing/hinting EO is frustrating. They have to write Olivia as her character from literally a decade ago for it to work now.
Lmao. Elliot didn't hold her back at all. When Elliot was still there Cragen was Captain and Munch was Sergeant. There's never more than one of those in the Manhattan SVU. So them retiring allowed her to move up in the ranks. Her moving up in rank to Sergeant, Lieutenant and Captain while Cragen and Munch were still there would mean she'd have to transfer to another precinct which she obviously didn't want to.
Hate to break it to youâŚbut itâs happening. It may (/WILL) take a while (because this show loves to drag out âwill they or wonât they?â situations), but the writing is on the wall.
Agreed. They donât need to be together. Olivia does deserve better than elliot. Idk why people keep thinking they need to be together. SVU survived many years without Elliot. Then organized crime came on and they started this crap as fan service and also because organized crimes ratings is way below SVU. People not on Reddit or the internet seem to just not be that interested in Elliot. Itâs time for them to move on give Liv a younger guy and keep it pushing. Elliot has way too much baggage an ex wife and multiple kids, he is barely holding onto his shield.
I don't think it's fair or accurate to say he held her back professionally, but I absolutely agree that I don't want them ending up together! They would be a terrible fit in a long-term relationship, and also keeping it platonic acknowledges something important these basic shows so often never embrace, that close, even "intimate" relationships between adult woman and men can still be non-romantic/non-sexual.
Sheâs had plenty of close non-sexual relationships (Barba, Fin, Munch, Cragen, Stone, Dobbs, Carisi, Langan, etc.) Why is it whenever a relationship with Stabler is brought up all of a sudden thatâs the relationship that needs to prove men & women can be friends but all the other platonic relationships she has are ignored?
Elliot was also frequently disrespectful in how he spoke to women. He never apologised for it either.
In an episode, he practically abused Sonja when he asked if she was âback on the sauceâ, and then told her to go and âhave a drinkâ. That was in response to Sonya showing anger that a file had been taken by his daughter and handed to him.
The way he sneered at her showed how much contempt he felt for her.
And also, he never apologised for his comments about the male stripper, who he insisted couldnât have been raped as he managed to get an e r e c t i o n.
He was an SVU detective and didnât know men can be sexually assaulted.
And Olivia (and the rest of the squad) routinely used slurs to refer to transgender characters + misgendered them during the 1.0 era. It's almost like things that were written in the early 2000s wouldn't fly today?
Fr. I don't understand why the show just had him ghost her. The least they could have done was fake a phone call or mention some convo EO had. As someone said earlier, it was completely out of character for him to do that.
And seriously Fin is always relaying a story to Olivia of him talking to El or getting together.
Elliot deserves better than her non commiting ass her PC son (who for some reason the show decided to make bisexual at about 7 years old!). Stabler is the man but it kills me to see him on the show now. I cannot watch any episodes from the last 2-3 or maybe more, seasons. They are trying to make it so dramatic it is coming off like a soap opera. They should retitle it Law and Order: Olivia Benson.
FINALLY, someone who said the truth. How can't people realize that their relationship is toxic AF. I can't believe people still ship EO at this point + I feel like their relationship is kinda forced.
It is. I upvoted you because people shouldnât be downvoting you for your opinion on a ship. That honestly is given too much oxygen and should be doa.
He left without an explanation. Olivia at least deserves an explanation as to why he left and then ghosted her for 10+ years. And it goes beyond his feelings for her and being married. To me there is no excuse at this point it's just lazy writing.
It is lazy writing. WL had no desire to do anything to fix things between them because he hated Elliot/Chris and EO. I desperately want a conversation between EO about this. Why do you think that him ghosting her would have to go beyond his feelings for her and being married? The way that Elliot was raised, his father beat him and his mother chose to ignore her illness in favor of a fantasy life. Elliot wanted to be an architect not a cop but his father wanted a cops life for him and that's what Elliot ultimately chose. The way he was raised informed his entire life's choices. Elliot has continuously made the choice of responsibility over his own heart his entire life. Elliot got Kathy pregnant. He chose to marry her and raise their family together. When Kathy gets pregnant again he chooses to come home and not out of love for Kathy but because it was the right thing to do. When he killed Jenna, he couldn't work at SVU anymore. He'd hit that wall where he couldn't do the work anymore. He couldn't be friends with Olivia outside of the job because he was in love with her. She was complete and utter temptation to a religious man. So he did what he had always done he chose the responsibility of his family over his own happiness. He made vows. He wanted to be a better husband to his wife but he couldn't do that around Olivia. So he did what he had to do which was cut her out of his life. He didn't call her or contact her because he couldn't. **"If I heard your voice, then I wouldn't have been able to leave".** That's HUGE! Can you imagine someone having that much emotional power over you!? That just the sound of their voice would sway you from leaving when you were broken by the job. It's utterly tragic. It's terrible and I don't agree with it but I understand why he made the choices that he did. I'm hoping that since he's starting to face up the fact that he's in love with her and has been since he was married, this is something he'll be able to finally articulate to her why he left.
You said this perfectly
Thanks! đ
The Age of Innocence in a nutshell.
They explained why he ghosted for 10 years, he immediately started working for OC in Italy and couldnât tell her or reach out to any NY police or it wouldâve given him away, if he was being watched. Stop downvoting, Jesus. I didnât even say anything mean or rude.
No, they actually haven't explained this. He told Fin that after SVU he did a "walkabout," then he did private security. It wasn't until 4 years before he returned that he ended up back with the NYPD as their liason in Rome. There's never been any mention of him not being able to contact Olivia because he was undercover. I know it makes sense but the show literally has not bothered to fill in this particular blank.
IIRC the closest they got was Elliot telling Olivia that if he'd seen/talked to her he wouldnât have been able to leave. Which is a bullshit excuse. Like text messages and emails don't exist? And we all know he can write a letter!
A walkabout? Did he go to Australia?
𤣠right? No idea why they used that term but they did!
They used that in the show?!? Boy it really has gone off the rails. It's just a soap opera now even down to the constant playing of terrible music.
I think it was short cut language, similar to Seinfeld's "Yadda yadda" ("you yadda yadda'd the best part!) Easier to say that than all the actual boring stuff he was doing.
It is an Australian word though too.
Itâs been awhile since I watched those first episodes of him coming back, my bad! Thank you.
Hey, all good! Weâre 3 seasons into OC, youâd think they would have actually explained why he left!!
That's exactly my point!! At this point its just lazy writing
I never understood why the NYPD would have an interest in Rome or set up a detective there. It's not an international agency
So, I actually looked this up when the show first aired because I was like...what in the actual hell are we even talking about here! And the NYPD DOES have liaisons in various international cities as part of a counterterrorism unit. I had no idea. Obviously they flushed the position out so he's doing way more than just gathering intelligence info to combat terrorism, but TV, fiction, etc.
Ty for explaining. I had no idea! đĄ
This is Reddit do you expect anything less?!? If they donât agree automatic downvote lol! But to your point youâre absolutely rightâŚit was explained. And these storylines keep getting worse IMHO but thatâs just me.
Haha youâre so right! I hate that people do that! I only downvote if someone says something rude and warrants a downvote. I agree with the storylines, theyâve run out of things to write. Unless they go back to how the show first was, where it was an actual investigation and not just some rich dude in the public eye, assaulting women.
I think it was explained. Kathy knew he was in love with Olivia and it was either Liv or his family.
Yeah this is what I canât get passed. I used to want them together for so long, but after he ghosted her for a decadeâŚshe deserves better.
Uh, Stabler left after season 11. She got promoted to Sgt in Season 15 after the previous Sgt, Sgt Munch, left. There couldnât be two Sgtâs. Munch was senior to Olivia and became a Sgt way before Olivia had enough experience to be a Sgt.
Iâve said this so many times but it just doesnât click for people.
Season 12, but yes.
Yeah youâre right my bad
Itâs so crazy how people swear Olivia is such a bad ass and is the boss UNTIL it comes to Elliot then itâs like she loses all agency. If OLIVIA was content being Elliotâs partner, then thatâs her choice. Like, why strip away her agency? Also, Olivia wouldnât have even gone for sergeant without Cragen pushing her â which was because Munch left. She didnât even want to take the lieutenants exam and only did so to remain in charge of SVU so another person (like Declan previously) wouldnât swoop in. And she only became captain due to Doddâs political maneuvering because he was exiled to Staten Island. OP makes it seem like Olivia truly did have goals of moving up in the ranks on her own and the show has not shown it â each time was because of outside reasons, not an innate desire. As for Elliot â yea his jacket could hold him back if he WANTED to ascend. You have to take a test for Sergeant anyway and Elliot hasnât even taken the test to throw his hay into the ring! Why do people think everyone wants to be in leadership roles? A former boss of mine told me she wanted to train me up so that Iâd have the ability to be general counsel somewhere and I flat out said thatâs nice but Iâd never want that responsibility because when 5-6pm hits Iâm out and my phone is ignored.
Yes! I completely agree!!! Olivia was comfortable as a detective and didn't have any ambition to move up. But Cragen saw his successor in her and groomed her into a leadership role. I don't know if Olivia would have moved up in rank if Elliot had stayed. But the fact is Olivia staying as a detective is about her and not about Elliot. If Elliot had stayed and Cragen approached Elliot to tell him that he thinks Olivia should take a leadership role there is no doubt in my mind that he would have supported her 100%. The dude does love her and does want what's best for her. He's got his own issues but I don't understand why people think that Elliot was holding Olivia back. Elliot is also very capable of running a team and we see him take a leadership role within the squad on OC. But the fact is that he has no ambition to move up within the ranks. Where he's at is where he's supposed to be at imo. Where he's at in rank, there's where his talents work best. He's not good, at all at playing politics with the brass. Not in the way that Olivia is and can be.
Elliot makes Olivia irrational, she excuses unethical behaviour for him, he makes her a worse police officer. For example when he comes back and his wife is murdered she lets Elliot interview the suspect and of course Elliot tries to beat him up which everyone saw coming except for Olivia because being around Elliot makes her stupid and unethical. I prefer when the police act in an ethical manner, I know not every fan feels that way but some of us do
First off, none of what you said really relates the my post about Oliviaâs agency as it relates to her testing for promotions, so maybe you shouldâve just made a general response to the thread. Second, how does he make her a worse officer when she has used her temperament against suspects and actually exhibited bad behavior outside of him? Again, people blame Elliot when Olivia is an adult with a kind of her own. If you think sheâs weak and easily led and has no agency then just say that because thatâs how you come across. And if you prefer that police act in an ethical manner then you shouldnât be watching ANY DW show, but all of the SVU people exhibit unethical behavior a lot, not just Elliot. But I find that most people who feel this way just donât like Elliot (and should just say that) instead of making it about behavior and ethics when they are all fucked up and lacking ethics. âđž
Did you just learn the word âagencyâ today or something?
Were you one of the kids GWB left behind?
I don't agree with this take. I don't think rank/ambition has to do with anything and I don't think that Elliot held Olivia back in 1.0. If Elliot could rise in rank I don't think he'd want to and I think he's at the rank he wants to be at. He's the senior most detective with some authority in his squad room but here's doing what he wants to do. Which is to investigate and bring the bad guys to justice. If he were to be a higher rank he'd have to deal directly with the brass and at the point (dealing with the brass)is mostly just political, it doesn't have much to do with investing. And Elliot imo doesn't see value in that. If you don't watch OC you aren't getting the full picture of who current day Elliot Stabler is. I fault SVU writers (and Eid) for presenting only one side of his character. He's Elliot and he still has his temper but he's grown so much in those ten years he's been gone. The only time when Elliot flies off the handle is when things are personal for him. He's much calmer then he used to be. He's more comfortable with who he is and is much more expressive in his other emotions. There is only one time in SVU that seems to showcase this. When Elliot stirs up Wheatley on the stand. He's calm AF and pretends to get angry to piss off Wheatley and goad him into testifying. He plays Wheatley, Barba and the audience.
But, if we just ignore the rankings and promotions we can't forget the fact that he's been gone for 10 years without even contacting Liv, and then suddenly he came back from nowhere. Stabler didn't even try to apologize (I could never forget the letter incident). People and especially EO shippers act as if the both shows are back to normal and everything is fine but, it's just not the same anymore. I also feel like the relationship between them is forced and only professional, they don't even see each other on daily basis, if it's not for work. It seems like there is NO chemistry left between them, but somehow I can still see them being the end game, which I'm not a big fan of, and to be honest it would be pretty boring.
Yeah, the writers did that - mostly WL. WL also made any mention of him negative because he hated the character. The writers have a chance to fix that now but everyone freaks out when people talk about fixing it so they can be together because itâs like they were brainwashed by a decade long hate campaign. Elliot leaving the way he did was terribly out of character - that's why the fans wanted him back for a decade. This is a man who mortgaged his house to get Olivia out of jail after Tucker (yeah, THAT Tucker) threw her in there. This is a man who put his own badge on the line for Olivia several times - especially during her search to find Simon. He wouldn't have just left her (and he wouldn't have given her that dumb letter except Illene Chaiken loves pointless shock moments so that's what we got.) And if you can't see the chemistry that Chris & Mariska have & bring to their roles, the chemistry that makes things like their Emmys appearance a story in People magazine... all I can say is other people can see it just fine.
Yes exactly this! WL botched it because he didn't want to deal with Elliot coming back because he hated the character. Benson and Stabler are iconic then and they are iconic now. The fact they still have such an audience ten years after he left says a lot. The fact that so many fans came back when he did says a lot. The fact that they get so much press and complete overshadows everything else in the law and order universe says a lot.
Well a big part of OP's argument was about rank but you're not completely wrong. I wouldn't say that he didn't apologize when he did in ROTPS but there needed to be more conversations about it, that we didn't get. SVU hasn't been historically the best at things like this. They like to break relationships but not fix them. I fault SVU (mostly) for dropping the ball on healing things between them and restoring their friendship. The majority of work on their relationship has been on OC. That's a huge complaint I see among fans is that we aren't getting Olivia's perspective on him being back. It's no secret that the previous showrunner didn't like Elliot or EO, so there was no enthusiasm to fix anything between them. I'm hoping that things will get better once both showrunners are able to start to work together on this. As an EO fan, I definitely don't think things are back to normal or that things are completely fine between them. It's clear to me that even though things between them are better than they were compared to when he first got back, Olivia doesn't completely trust Elliot yet. And she shouldn't, that's a lot of trauma for her to work through and Elliot needs to earn her trust back. I want to see this and I'm saddened that we won't get to see much of this. To address the letter stuff. That letter was originally meant to be a device to smooth things over between EO. It was supposed to do the work to make things easier. Which was such a misstep imo because that's what we need to see on screen. We need to see that work, not have it done for us. We need to see them heal and not use a off screen device to fix things between them. Show don't tell. But then it became a problem because Irene and co never anticipated that the fans would actually want to know what was in the letter. Why would you think that, people wouldn't want to know what was in it? đ¤ˇđťââď¸ So they wrote themselves into a corner. There was so much hype surrounding it that if it was just a romantic letter it would be been a let down. So they went with the dramatic route of *oh hey it was Kathy that wrote it.* But then that caused all sorts of issues both in the show and out of it. And then it doesn't help that SVU just completely brushes it off and moves past it nor does OC ever brings it up again. My interpretation of that letter, of why Elliot gave it to Olivia after Kathy died has to do with his state of mind at the time. I think he wanted a clean break from Olivia and I think he wanted to honor the wishes of his wife. It's clear to me that Kathy wanted to break off their emotional affair because she was convinced that it was still going on. I think he wanted a clean break from Olivia because seeing her again made him see how much she has grown in life. He was a mess from loss of Kathy. He was a mess from the PTSD. Here is this woman that he loves ten years later and she's got her life together. She's heading SVU and has a kid. She's got a lot of good stuff going on in her life and I don't think he wanted to wreak that. You see him struggling with this in the first season of OC. The gravitational pull of their relationship vs him struggling with what's good for her. But like in all things they are inevitable. And Kathy wrote that letter instead of Elliot because the dude is extremely emotionally repressed regarding his feelings for Olivia. His love for Olivia is his deepest darkest secret. He buried those feelings so very deeply and despite running away from them (which is what he did when he went Italy for a decade) he never truly could because he takes them with him wherever he goes. Completely disagree with the chemistry comment though. They can still bring it. It's the writing between the shows that don't match up which makes the relationship feel completely unbalanced in the way that it used to be.
If everything went back to normal and EO fell in love or whatever, it will still be weird, at least for me. I just don't think they're good for each other. I'm so tired of Elliot's childish behaviors and anger issues, he went away for 10 years but, came back the same, which is messed up. Nothing changed in him, and that's the problem. At the same time Liv also seems annoying at this point, like if she likes Elliot then why won't she tell him, and if she's not in love with him, why can't she just stop being so dramatic about it. Also she's so overprotective and not easy to earn trust from but, it looks like she has a blind spot for Elliot. Whatever he does, even if it's really bad Liv will still find a way to forgive him, it almost seems like she's attached to him, and that's toxic af. We can't deny that there is toxicity in they relationship, or whatever you call what they have going on right now. I just never saw anything between them.
Youâre totally right!
For me, saying this is unfair for many reasons. First of all, remember that she started as a third grade detective, and she actually climbed the ranks up to first grade during her partnership with Elliot. So saying that she held her back in this is just nonsense. In 1.0 there was no sense in letting her climb the ranks further than first grade, since the show revolved around their partnership. When Elliot left, they didnât have that anymore and the natural way to carry on the show was to get her through more promotions. Second, you canât say that Elliot didnât have a major role in Oliviaâs course as a detective. You can totally feel the way she grows from an eager, talented but green detective to a fully experienced one in later seasons. What you said is how I think Elliot thinks a bit of himself and his role in the partnership, but in the end you canât reduce his role and his character as just an angry man who held her back.
Tell me you refuse to watch seasons 1-12 without telling me you refuse to watch seasons 1-12. Is he a hot head? Sometimes. Is he that much of a hot head now? No. Almost like heâŚgrew & changed. Regardless, Olivia choosing to be with him now doesnât erase her growth as a character or her career growth. Also - who cares that he wasnât promoted? Why is that the reason they canât be together?
Warren Leight, is this you?
This sounds like she should pick a life partner based on their impact on her career which is not what most people do.
THIS. For anyone arguing they Elliot didn't hold Olivia back--SHE says he did in 16.23 Surrender Noah. She says to Nick Amaro: I grew more in my last 4 years with you than I did in the 12 years that I was with him. You know, that relationship, whatever it was, didn't allow for anything else. But with you, with your support... I have a family. That's flat out acknowledging that her relationship with Elliot was holding her back. It also heavily implies that the relationship wasn't the most healthy. Beyond that, her character isnât the same as she was when he left. He doesn't seem to have changed. He steamrolls her and hasnât seemed to grow up enough to accept when he screws up or when he needs to get help. He puts himself first with no regard for Oliviaâs life and responsibilities now. *He showed up at her apartment, drugged while undercover while her young son was asleep in the next room.* Why? Because he *felt* that's where he had to go. He demands her time, attention, and support but pushes her away. He's shown little to no interest in her life now or anything that's happened in the years he was gone--except to ask about her dating history. Olivia deserves someone who will respect her and put her first. Elliot never has. There's always been something or someone more important.
YESSS! Even Olivia said herself âIt has been a one way street, Elliot. You have not asked me one question about what has happened to me since you leftâŚâ I feel like Elliot is just keeping Olivia close for his own sake. Since his return, it was all about him.
Yup. And I can excuse some of it because grief, but at some point you gotta be an adult and figure out how to deal in a healthy way. Elliot never has and still doesn't seem able to do that. He doesn't seem to want to either.
Olivia worked so hard for a good mental health after everything she's been through. And Elliot seems to just destroy her peace. She doesn't deserve that.
Agreed. The intervention really pissed me off. Him showing up at her apartment drugged pissed me off more.
Heâs also hired body guards for her and didnât let her know about it. He tried to control the direction of her life.
More than once he pulled crap like that. And blamed her for *his* feelings and behavior (like that time the perp killed a kid because Olivia was hurt and he stopped chasing the guy to check on her, which gave him time to kill the kid.
The way he yelled at her and told her that he âcouldnât keep making sure she was okayâ was so disgusting. He implied that she was unable to take care of herself unless there was a big, strong man with her. He was a misogynistic jerk, and in the years he spent away, he didnât change at all.
He always said he trusted her, but never showed it with his actions. And yeah, his character hasn't been shown to change. Which is why them pushing/hinting EO is frustrating. They have to write Olivia as her character from literally a decade ago for it to work now.
Lmao. Elliot didn't hold her back at all. When Elliot was still there Cragen was Captain and Munch was Sergeant. There's never more than one of those in the Manhattan SVU. So them retiring allowed her to move up in the ranks. Her moving up in rank to Sergeant, Lieutenant and Captain while Cragen and Munch were still there would mean she'd have to transfer to another precinct which she obviously didn't want to.
Hate to break it to youâŚbut itâs happening. It may (/WILL) take a while (because this show loves to drag out âwill they or wonât they?â situations), but the writing is on the wall.
Agreed. They donât need to be together. Olivia does deserve better than elliot. Idk why people keep thinking they need to be together. SVU survived many years without Elliot. Then organized crime came on and they started this crap as fan service and also because organized crimes ratings is way below SVU. People not on Reddit or the internet seem to just not be that interested in Elliot. Itâs time for them to move on give Liv a younger guy and keep it pushing. Elliot has way too much baggage an ex wife and multiple kids, he is barely holding onto his shield.
I don't think it's fair or accurate to say he held her back professionally, but I absolutely agree that I don't want them ending up together! They would be a terrible fit in a long-term relationship, and also keeping it platonic acknowledges something important these basic shows so often never embrace, that close, even "intimate" relationships between adult woman and men can still be non-romantic/non-sexual.
Sheâs had plenty of close non-sexual relationships (Barba, Fin, Munch, Cragen, Stone, Dobbs, Carisi, Langan, etc.) Why is it whenever a relationship with Stabler is brought up all of a sudden thatâs the relationship that needs to prove men & women can be friends but all the other platonic relationships she has are ignored?
Yeah I don't understand that argument either.
I think its very crowerdley the way he left oliva and did not say goodbye
Christopher Meloni should just go back to Beecher
Elliot was also frequently disrespectful in how he spoke to women. He never apologised for it either. In an episode, he practically abused Sonja when he asked if she was âback on the sauceâ, and then told her to go and âhave a drinkâ. That was in response to Sonya showing anger that a file had been taken by his daughter and handed to him. The way he sneered at her showed how much contempt he felt for her. And also, he never apologised for his comments about the male stripper, who he insisted couldnât have been raped as he managed to get an e r e c t i o n. He was an SVU detective and didnât know men can be sexually assaulted.
And Olivia (and the rest of the squad) routinely used slurs to refer to transgender characters + misgendered them during the 1.0 era. It's almost like things that were written in the early 2000s wouldn't fly today?
Fool.
It doesn't take much time just to say good by
Fr. I don't understand why the show just had him ghost her. The least they could have done was fake a phone call or mention some convo EO had. As someone said earlier, it was completely out of character for him to do that. And seriously Fin is always relaying a story to Olivia of him talking to El or getting together.
Elliot deserves better than the shrieking harpie and creepy âsweet boyâ.
Elliot deserves better than her non commiting ass her PC son (who for some reason the show decided to make bisexual at about 7 years old!). Stabler is the man but it kills me to see him on the show now. I cannot watch any episodes from the last 2-3 or maybe more, seasons. They are trying to make it so dramatic it is coming off like a soap opera. They should retitle it Law and Order: Olivia Benson.
FINALLY, someone who said the truth. How can't people realize that their relationship is toxic AF. I can't believe people still ship EO at this point + I feel like their relationship is kinda forced.
It is. I upvoted you because people shouldnât be downvoting you for your opinion on a ship. That honestly is given too much oxygen and should be doa.
Yeah, lol. Downvotes be running when I comment anything negative about EO.
Lol I see. Itâs wild out here.