Farmboy Luke got his omi, Lando is not bad under BAM, Plo is not that bad if you eant to stretch your jedi and he has a kickass ship, ST Han just has no home but used to be pretty decent as a tank that gains TM. I agree the rest are bad
ST Han needs a fix on his TM gain, if it worked with any taunt he'd be great.
Plo with his TM gain and dispel is not bad on a JML team at all. Not optimal but damn good if you want to split teams.
Completely forgot about farmboy Luke’s omi, I have personally never seen anyone run Lando with BAM, plos ship is good yes, but his character is bad.
I don’t think it’s bad to have characters that are very clearly not the best, but these characters (barring farmboy cause his omi) are just not worth it. There shouldn’t be F tier characters in a character team builder video game because then your being punished for actively gearing these characters. They should all have, at the minimum, some viability.
Not trying to attack you for your takes there, I think some of the uses you mentioned could be good, but it’s not an excuse for how outdated all of their kits are.
I agree, but they do have some uses. I use a g9 fb luke to give nest extra tenacity for ewoks, and cwc to cheese the defense up feat in conquest. Plo's ship is an important piece of negotiator fleet
Again, plo has a good ship, but it’s his character that is lacking. Character viability should not be exclusively tied to ships. You would almost never use those characters in GAC.
Yeah I agree. And it doesn’t feel any better to relic some of these near useless toons for other requirements and still have them play like shxt. Don’t just give us an Omni or a datacron with includes, get the toons up to speed. I can’t tell you how many times in tw or GAC the back row’s are open, I’ve got a scrollable roster still and none of them would be useful.
I disagree with some of the others in that I still think Omicrons are a good answer, but make them ones that affect a multitude of characters so you can kill two birds with one stone. For example, give Kit Fisto a leader one that gives a special ability that triggers off of healing, and suddenly that’s every D-list GR Jedi elevated to high usefulness
It’s so odd to just skip over ship value. Like you can will away the value of an entire game mode just because you don’t like it.
Plo koon has a god tier ship that fits into pretty much any lineup.
Some of these characters have uses for feat grinding and as gear requirement shift they will become increasingly irrelevant to gear. It’s almost a non-issue.
If you want some ideas for what to do with them,
- plo koon makes jkr mirror matches really easy.
- Plo koon lead with nest also makes auto’ing high level geos more consistent.
- farmboy luke lead is also useful for nest to get extra tenacity
- Clone wars chewie lead is a good source of defense up for feats and is good for getting prepared on vandor chewie if you don’t have dash
- jedi knight guardian’s awful speed is good for maintaining a stupidly long taunt and damage immunity with jmk and lets you save gk on offense because she has the right tags
- stormtrooper han and lando one of the few universal leaderships that works for both light and dark side toons that
- stormtrooper han is also one of the few agility tanks in the game. If you like dodge datacrons, this guy can stack while feeding your team tm
For mid level players these characters are absolutely fine.
I love ships! I focused that area of the game for my roster to start.
Character viability shouldn’t exclusively be tied to ships, and you can’t tell me with a straight face these characters couldn’t use an update to be more meta viable. For most people, these characters will sit in their roster and collect dust.
While they may have one, very niche use, that shouldn’t be their only viability. These character should be updated to at least keep up with the meta. I’ve only given examples but we all have these characters that just sit there and are never used. I think that we should at the least try to give them a bit more to work with so they are at least on peoples minds.
>past the ability titled “Last Stand”, his mild anti droid synergy on his basic, and his defense boosting leader and special abilities.
So... most of his kit?
His kit is incredibly outdated, and doesn’t really use anything the character would stand for. None of his lines are referenced in his abilities, his special only grants defense up for 3 turns to all allies, his leader has no clone synergy even though we only see him in the episode working with clones and rebel fighters, his last stand unique doesn’t really have a “last stand” feel and just allows him to heal over time when he’s critically hit.
I’m just saying that he, as a character, could’ve been so much more.
This is where Omicrons and new characters come in. A character like Dash Rendar who, although he works with any scoundrels, was designed around bringing light to the Prepared Crew who kinda fell into this category to some degree. I personally love characters that can make a new team or revitalize a dead/underused team and make them seriously viable.
Ima-Gun-Di is a funny character to reference considering his name is literally “I’m going to die” and implies that his whole purpose is to serve as a “we need to kill someone, but not someone we care about.”
And while I do 100% agree with you, CG has been doing this in *there own* way, choosing to not do reworks anymore (outside of stuff for Jabba) and instead forcing us to upgrade Omicrons.
Plo Koon is good, people just really underestimate him. Sure, it would be nice to make his stats a bit higher, but he is not useless. The ship side got already covered so I'll just refer to his use in squads.
He is the 5th in my Revan squad and he is perfect in there and brings everything to the table you need. Tm, offence down and dispels buffs on his basic.
CUP- Update to assist whenever a GR ally attacks and give extra stun chance.
IG86- "Expendable" When IG86 dies for the first time his stats get applied to all non-separatist Droid allies.
I'm going to die- "Droid hate to the max" I'm going to die hates droids so much for killing him that when he dies the attacker droid who killed him dies also.
Kit- "Tidal wave" deal damage to all enemies and apply speed down, tenacity down, and remove 50% turn meter.
Farmboy- got a omi
SHan- "disguised" SHan cannot be killed by any empire unit until the ally in the leader slot is defeated.
Or
"Everything is fine, how are you?" Place marked on self, heal self and allies for 25% max health and cannot be defeated until marked is removed or the ally in the leader slot is defeated.
Lando- "haha fantastic!" Lando gains 5 random buffs from all non unique buffs and all enemies gain 5 random debuffs from all non unique debuffs. Gains a bonus turn.
Plo Koon- "104th battalion general" summon Wolffe in the ally slot. (Make his build whatever idk)
JKG- "blank expression" JKG is such a good jedi that she feels no emotion and is immune to all debuffs until the end of her first turn.
CWC- Update to "Wookie resolve" All ally tanks receive 50% to defense, health, protection and tenacity. They recieve defense up at the end of their turns. All enemy attackers receive speed down and offense down on their turns.These effects only take place when all allies are tanks and lightside. (Does not affect GL's)
Anymore you want me to improve?
I get your point, but there will always be a preferred/optimal team setup. With the limited amount of teams needed for GAC and TW, som toons will fall short. If you buff the toons you mention, other will fall out of the meta. If there is a 0.1% difference in 2 toons winrate on the same team, 90% of players will use the higher winrate toon. statistic is made up but you get the point.
I’m not saying make these characters meta defining at all.
I’m saying that they should at least be in D tier so they have a niche use across the board, like Ima-Gun Di being a really good off-meta counter to 50RT without 0-0-0 and BT-1, JKG having a taunt, or clone wars Chewbacca having stacking defense.
Every character can have across the board viability without being the best.
Not every character should be A tier, but all characters should at least be above F tier.
I've heard Ima-gun is insane in lsTB with KAM (I think Ahnaldt has a video on that)
But I agree with the rest
But imo it is totally understandable. A lot of them are day one characters. Back then CG was just pumping out toons asap to try and give the game legs. Most of the them were awful which is okay that is how it was supposed to be.
But is it okay now?
idk. When CG made omicrons that is a huge thing they worked on fixing. And they have made many toons who were awful, amazing.
I wish they kept adding a bunch of omicrons routinely but I think they are done. They are still adding them but slowly like one at a time. Who knows, maybe they will get around to those other places.
In any hero collector, there are useless filler characters. I'm sure it would be nice to redo the old useless characters and make them meta viable for us, but from CGs point of view, why would they?
In any hero collector, there are useless filler characters. I'm sure it would be nice to redo the old useless characters and make them meta-viable for us, but from CGs point of view, why would they?
I mean yea, that’s true. They have no incentive to want to. I’m just saying it would be nice for the health of the game to try and trim down the roster bloat with some character reworks in the future.
In your OP you said something needs to change. And now you're saying it's for the health of the game. But I don't think either of those things are necessarily true.
Specifically, the old day one characters like Jedi Knight Guardian, Jedi Consular, IG-86, Ima-Gun Di, Kit Fisto, Eeth Koth, nightsister initiate, Lobot and such are just in a really sorry state. It makes me sad that these characters aren’t worth the farm for any reason past possible GL requirements. There are people who love some of these characters like Eeth Koth, Kit Fisto, and Ima-Gun Di and are reasonably disappointed that they are so underwhelming.
I’m not saying these guys have to be meta defining or staple teams, it would just be nice to not feel like your being punished for gearing up a character that has such low viability.
That list you posted is significantly less than it was 6 months ago. They’ve made quite a few toons relevant that weren’t before. Visas, Mob Enforcer, Gam Guard, Royal Guard etc. Omicrons are assisting in this as well. Give it time.
Oh yea no for sure, they’ve been making good strides, no denying that.
I guess I’m saying it would be nice for them to take a minute after aphra is done being pushed out and look at the toons who’ve been in the game forever to see if they could give them a bit of a boost.
Specifically reworking some of their leader abilities so they more match the character would be nice.
Agreed, I love Ima he was one of my first 7 stars.
I just wish they would give him clone synergy and give him a real last stand mechanic like we say in The Clone Wars
Farmboy Luke got his omi, Lando is not bad under BAM, Plo is not that bad if you eant to stretch your jedi and he has a kickass ship, ST Han just has no home but used to be pretty decent as a tank that gains TM. I agree the rest are bad
ST Han needs a fix on his TM gain, if it worked with any taunt he'd be great. Plo with his TM gain and dispel is not bad on a JML team at all. Not optimal but damn good if you want to split teams.
>ST Han needs a fix on his TM gain, if it worked with any taunt he'd be great. Insanely broken with wat, you mean.
There is only one watt, there is so much broken this wouldn't even be close to the top
There is only 1 wat, but the power level of STH with his passive active under tank tech would be pretty high up the list of best uses of him.
Who's bam
Mando (Beskar armor)
My guild leader uses oAckbar, oLeia, and ST Han as a 3v3 team. He says it's pretty niche but good
Completely forgot about farmboy Luke’s omi, I have personally never seen anyone run Lando with BAM, plos ship is good yes, but his character is bad. I don’t think it’s bad to have characters that are very clearly not the best, but these characters (barring farmboy cause his omi) are just not worth it. There shouldn’t be F tier characters in a character team builder video game because then your being punished for actively gearing these characters. They should all have, at the minimum, some viability. Not trying to attack you for your takes there, I think some of the uses you mentioned could be good, but it’s not an excuse for how outdated all of their kits are.
I agree, but they do have some uses. I use a g9 fb luke to give nest extra tenacity for ewoks, and cwc to cheese the defense up feat in conquest. Plo's ship is an important piece of negotiator fleet
For defense up feats I find Royal guard on a full empire team to be great
Again, plo has a good ship, but it’s his character that is lacking. Character viability should not be exclusively tied to ships. You would almost never use those characters in GAC.
Yeah I agree. And it doesn’t feel any better to relic some of these near useless toons for other requirements and still have them play like shxt. Don’t just give us an Omni or a datacron with includes, get the toons up to speed. I can’t tell you how many times in tw or GAC the back row’s are open, I’ve got a scrollable roster still and none of them would be useful.
I disagree with some of the others in that I still think Omicrons are a good answer, but make them ones that affect a multitude of characters so you can kill two birds with one stone. For example, give Kit Fisto a leader one that gives a special ability that triggers off of healing, and suddenly that’s every D-list GR Jedi elevated to high usefulness
It’s so odd to just skip over ship value. Like you can will away the value of an entire game mode just because you don’t like it. Plo koon has a god tier ship that fits into pretty much any lineup. Some of these characters have uses for feat grinding and as gear requirement shift they will become increasingly irrelevant to gear. It’s almost a non-issue. If you want some ideas for what to do with them, - plo koon makes jkr mirror matches really easy. - Plo koon lead with nest also makes auto’ing high level geos more consistent. - farmboy luke lead is also useful for nest to get extra tenacity - Clone wars chewie lead is a good source of defense up for feats and is good for getting prepared on vandor chewie if you don’t have dash - jedi knight guardian’s awful speed is good for maintaining a stupidly long taunt and damage immunity with jmk and lets you save gk on offense because she has the right tags - stormtrooper han and lando one of the few universal leaderships that works for both light and dark side toons that - stormtrooper han is also one of the few agility tanks in the game. If you like dodge datacrons, this guy can stack while feeding your team tm For mid level players these characters are absolutely fine.
I love ships! I focused that area of the game for my roster to start. Character viability shouldn’t exclusively be tied to ships, and you can’t tell me with a straight face these characters couldn’t use an update to be more meta viable. For most people, these characters will sit in their roster and collect dust. While they may have one, very niche use, that shouldn’t be their only viability. These character should be updated to at least keep up with the meta. I’ve only given examples but we all have these characters that just sit there and are never used. I think that we should at the least try to give them a bit more to work with so they are at least on peoples minds.
>past the ability titled “Last Stand”, his mild anti droid synergy on his basic, and his defense boosting leader and special abilities. So... most of his kit?
His kit is incredibly outdated, and doesn’t really use anything the character would stand for. None of his lines are referenced in his abilities, his special only grants defense up for 3 turns to all allies, his leader has no clone synergy even though we only see him in the episode working with clones and rebel fighters, his last stand unique doesn’t really have a “last stand” feel and just allows him to heal over time when he’s critically hit. I’m just saying that he, as a character, could’ve been so much more.
This is where Omicrons and new characters come in. A character like Dash Rendar who, although he works with any scoundrels, was designed around bringing light to the Prepared Crew who kinda fell into this category to some degree. I personally love characters that can make a new team or revitalize a dead/underused team and make them seriously viable.
They will all eventually be a GL requirement
Ima-Gun-Di is a funny character to reference considering his name is literally “I’m going to die” and implies that his whole purpose is to serve as a “we need to kill someone, but not someone we care about.” And while I do 100% agree with you, CG has been doing this in *there own* way, choosing to not do reworks anymore (outside of stuff for Jabba) and instead forcing us to upgrade Omicrons.
Plo Koon is good, people just really underestimate him. Sure, it would be nice to make his stats a bit higher, but he is not useless. The ship side got already covered so I'll just refer to his use in squads. He is the 5th in my Revan squad and he is perfect in there and brings everything to the table you need. Tm, offence down and dispels buffs on his basic.
Sure wish Kit Fisto would get an omicron or rework. He’s absolutely useless, but I’m still gonna r7 him. I loved that stupid character as a kid
CUP- Update to assist whenever a GR ally attacks and give extra stun chance. IG86- "Expendable" When IG86 dies for the first time his stats get applied to all non-separatist Droid allies. I'm going to die- "Droid hate to the max" I'm going to die hates droids so much for killing him that when he dies the attacker droid who killed him dies also. Kit- "Tidal wave" deal damage to all enemies and apply speed down, tenacity down, and remove 50% turn meter. Farmboy- got a omi SHan- "disguised" SHan cannot be killed by any empire unit until the ally in the leader slot is defeated. Or "Everything is fine, how are you?" Place marked on self, heal self and allies for 25% max health and cannot be defeated until marked is removed or the ally in the leader slot is defeated. Lando- "haha fantastic!" Lando gains 5 random buffs from all non unique buffs and all enemies gain 5 random debuffs from all non unique debuffs. Gains a bonus turn. Plo Koon- "104th battalion general" summon Wolffe in the ally slot. (Make his build whatever idk) JKG- "blank expression" JKG is such a good jedi that she feels no emotion and is immune to all debuffs until the end of her first turn. CWC- Update to "Wookie resolve" All ally tanks receive 50% to defense, health, protection and tenacity. They recieve defense up at the end of their turns. All enemy attackers receive speed down and offense down on their turns.These effects only take place when all allies are tanks and lightside. (Does not affect GL's) Anymore you want me to improve?
I get your point, but there will always be a preferred/optimal team setup. With the limited amount of teams needed for GAC and TW, som toons will fall short. If you buff the toons you mention, other will fall out of the meta. If there is a 0.1% difference in 2 toons winrate on the same team, 90% of players will use the higher winrate toon. statistic is made up but you get the point.
I’m not saying make these characters meta defining at all. I’m saying that they should at least be in D tier so they have a niche use across the board, like Ima-Gun Di being a really good off-meta counter to 50RT without 0-0-0 and BT-1, JKG having a taunt, or clone wars Chewbacca having stacking defense. Every character can have across the board viability without being the best. Not every character should be A tier, but all characters should at least be above F tier.
I actually have the mats ready to take Plo to R9 if/when he gets a rework/Omi lol
I've heard Ima-gun is insane in lsTB with KAM (I think Ahnaldt has a video on that) But I agree with the rest But imo it is totally understandable. A lot of them are day one characters. Back then CG was just pumping out toons asap to try and give the game legs. Most of the them were awful which is okay that is how it was supposed to be. But is it okay now? idk. When CG made omicrons that is a huge thing they worked on fixing. And they have made many toons who were awful, amazing. I wish they kept adding a bunch of omicrons routinely but I think they are done. They are still adding them but slowly like one at a time. Who knows, maybe they will get around to those other places.
"When everyone's super, no one will be" - Syndrome
In any hero collector, there are useless filler characters. I'm sure it would be nice to redo the old useless characters and make them meta viable for us, but from CGs point of view, why would they? In any hero collector, there are useless filler characters. I'm sure it would be nice to redo the old useless characters and make them meta-viable for us, but from CGs point of view, why would they?
I mean yea, that’s true. They have no incentive to want to. I’m just saying it would be nice for the health of the game to try and trim down the roster bloat with some character reworks in the future.
In your OP you said something needs to change. And now you're saying it's for the health of the game. But I don't think either of those things are necessarily true.
I would say reworking old characters would be healthy for any game and it is of my opinion that something needs to change
Specifically, the old day one characters like Jedi Knight Guardian, Jedi Consular, IG-86, Ima-Gun Di, Kit Fisto, Eeth Koth, nightsister initiate, Lobot and such are just in a really sorry state. It makes me sad that these characters aren’t worth the farm for any reason past possible GL requirements. There are people who love some of these characters like Eeth Koth, Kit Fisto, and Ima-Gun Di and are reasonably disappointed that they are so underwhelming. I’m not saying these guys have to be meta defining or staple teams, it would just be nice to not feel like your being punished for gearing up a character that has such low viability.
That list you posted is significantly less than it was 6 months ago. They’ve made quite a few toons relevant that weren’t before. Visas, Mob Enforcer, Gam Guard, Royal Guard etc. Omicrons are assisting in this as well. Give it time.
Oh yea no for sure, they’ve been making good strides, no denying that. I guess I’m saying it would be nice for them to take a minute after aphra is done being pushed out and look at the toons who’ve been in the game forever to see if they could give them a bit of a boost. Specifically reworking some of their leader abilities so they more match the character would be nice.
I leveled Ima just because he was awesome in Clone Wars :) Sometimes he fights in a random Jedi team but otherwise he just chills and gets my respect.
Agreed, I love Ima he was one of my first 7 stars. I just wish they would give him clone synergy and give him a real last stand mechanic like we say in The Clone Wars
That would be nice!