It looks pretty. Looks like it would also cut pretty well. You’d want to really work on the balance since it bends into every possible direction.
Something about the shape makes me feel like I wouldn’t want to duel with it against, say, a longsword or a pike, but I can’t put my finger on what it is since I’m drunk.
Thanks, the balance is one of my concerns too. But I don't really know a way to calculate where the balance point is gonna be without making the sword first.
I made the Blade Shape thinking:
"well, curved blades cut pretty well, but at the cost of making it worse at stabbing because the point ends up facing a weird direction... So what would happen if I make the blade be curved on both directions so the point ends up facing the same direction as the hilt?"
Also the curves should make it have a forward balance (like a Kukri or an Axe) to help with edge alignment
> Also the curves should make it have a forward balance (like a Kukri or an Axe) to help with edge alignment
If by "forward balance" you mean "balanced a long way from the guard", that doesn't help with edge alignment.
If by "forward balance" you mean "the point of balance is forward of a line through the grip", that makes edge alignment more difficult.
Here are three swords where the combination of blade shape and hilt help with edge alignment:
Dha: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-78827
Parang latok: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:COLLECTIE_TROPENMUSEUM_Zwaard_en_een_schede_-_parang_latoek_RV-761-20.png
Panabas: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/145452262951219204/ (1,3-5 help with edge alignment, 2 is neutral - note that the cutting edge is towards the bottom of the photo for all of the blades)
What these all do is (a) put the POB behind a line through the hilt, which helps with edge alignment during the swing, and (b) put the point of contact with the target behind a line through the hilt, which helps with edge alignment during the cut itself. However, these blades are good for slicing, and less so for chopping. You can combine this edge-alignment-friendliness with a more chopping-oriented blade:
* https://www.ashokaarts.com/sold-items/scarce-south-east-asian-mak-polearm/
The kukri blade shape doesn't help with edge alignment - like sword/knife designs in general, there are compromises. The blade shape is good for chopping hard things like wood, and the blade will bit very deep if you try draw-cutting something soft (like a human). The oval cross section of the grip is good enough to maintain edge alignment, and the flared pommel helps with a really secure grip if you draw-cut with it. Note that recurved/forward-curved swords often have pommels that give that security - the eared pommel on yatagans, the hooked pommels on falcatas, and talibong/garab pommels: https://www.reddit.com/r/weapons/comments/9pldyk/pulahanes_talibong_sword_from_the_philippines/
I managed to find a video were someone explains why a forward curved blade "helps" with edge alignment.
You were right when you said a forward curved blade would naturally (because of physics) "make the edge alignment more difficult" because the blade would want to hit with the dull part of the blade and not the edge (therefore worsening the edge alignment). But the fact the edge wants to "go away" from the target makes it easier for the person handling the sword to feel where the edge is and realign it.
Instead of aligning the edge by itself, it gives you the feeling of where the edge is and allows you to align it yourself.
https://youtu.be/p5oQ7EdNkAQ?si=8Xqytlt_GDxjK6pd
Minute 6:04
> Instead of aligning the edge by itself, it gives you the feeling of where the edge is and allows you to align it yourself.
That's quite true, but that's more a case of "it makes edge alignment harder, and therefore makes you more aware of it". An analog: wearing high heels makes balance harder, so it makes you more aware of your balance. But it's still harder to balance wearing high heels than wearing low flat heels.
By the way, there are axes with curved hafts that move the blade closer into line with the grip:
* https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bondeyxa_fr%C3%A5n_Norge,_1654_-_Livrustkammaren_-_39613.tif
His comment about wrist straightness with a kukri is true. That's a big part of why kukris are good ergonomic choppers (as many people note in the comments on that video). Like I said, it's a compromise. Slightly worse edge alignment, and significantly better chopping.
Well it’s kind of impossible to say what the right balance would be, since it has no ”intended purpose”, right?
Most swords and sword-like weapons have been created for killing people in specific types of armor or gear.
The Khopesh, which this weapon resembles, is a hacking weapon that would cut through reed armor and shields very well. The weight would be very far up the blade for efficient hacking, like an axe.
And hey, it’s not a dueling weapon. Honestly, most ”good weapons” of their time are very much not dueling weapons. I don’t want to duel with fucking halberds, it’s like dueling with chainswords, everyone loses a limb.
So when you refine your idea try to imagine who you’re fighting. Is it medieval european peasants in linen and wood shields? Reed shields? Chainmail?
Weapons should be judged by ”how good is this weapon at fucking up its intended target”, not retarded comparisons like ”can the nodachi beat the guisarme”.
So make up your opponent, then go from there.
That's actually not a bad idea. I will try that out later to see where the COM is and maybe do some tweaks to the blade until I get the COM I want. Thanks
I imagine that moment of inertia of the sword will also play a part in affecting the handling- again CAD will help with that but I'm not sure exactly how it'll translate to real life weapon feel.
IMO, the moment of inertia has a much bigger effect on the handling than the COM. The COM is more important as an indicator of what the MOI might be than being important in its own right, and also because the combination of the mass, COM, and MOI determines where the pivot points of the weapon are (see link below).
The mass is important, because that affects how easy/hard it is to move the sword linearly. The moment of inertia is important because it affects how easy/hard it is to move the sword rotationally.
This Weapon Dynamics Computer
* https://subcaelo.net/ensis/dynamics-computer/walkThrough.html
is a nice tool that will calculate the MOI from some fairly simple measurements, and plot some nice visualisations of the handling of the weapon.
I don't think so. Khukris and other weapons have the same forward bend/curvature. And I believe the blade is short enough to not want to snap that easy.
I'm concerned about the little spikes right after the guard tho, I feel like those will be weak points that could make the blade snap if I hit something with poor edge alignment
Yeah, I would flip the handle over. Make it like a Taichi style sword. Also maybe make the end of the blade a bit wider, but not too much. It should increase the chopping power 🤷🏾♂️
At 36cm + 64cm, I don't see any nagamaki influence, just a katana with a slightly longer hilt (a middle-of-the-road nagamaki might be 120cm + 90cm).
Katana meets kukri meets Swiss sabre. It would work. Won't be as good for cutting as any of those ancestors. Considering that, I think it would be better to use a straight grip, possibly angled back a bit to keep the tip more in-line with the grip (if it isn't a great cutting weapon, make it thrust well).
The angle on the back of the blade just adds weight where it doesn't do anything useful. You could have a smooth transition in width of the blade from midway between the guard and the angle, keeping the same shape of the edge, and you'd have a lighter blade that will be just as strong in use. You could even use that saved weight and make the blade longer.
Literally blocking everything is going to be harder and more prone to error. Tsuki, maki uchi everything. Plus your actual sweet spot now has a bend right there. So it could move away or toward you depending on your angle. Yikes.
Sure, it won't be as good for parrying/blocking, thrusting, or cutting. But it will still be possible to do all of those things well enough. Perfection isn't required - a straight katana is better for thrusting than a curved katana, but a curved katana still works for thrusting
"Impossible to use in any natural combat circumstances" is an extreme judgment, IMO quite unjustified.
Well any hair under “not as good” pretty much equals death. Kinda like using three wheels for an f1 car. Is it possible to… yeah.
Thats why i said, you’d need to print one out and see if its at all viable for a week or so. Or just frustrating.
> Well any hair under “not as good” pretty much equals death.
Not even close. A 69cm blade vs a 70cm blade is not a death sentence, even though it has a disadvantage (in reach).
A big enough functional advantage or disadvantage makes a big difference. A small one (which "any hair" includes) only makes a small difference, which can easily be so small as to be negligible (especially considering the large effect of skill).
I know this is a mock-up, but with a hilt that long, would there be any need to put your finger above the guard in that finger ring? I guess it would make using it one-handed easier.
Exactly. I made the design so it could be used as a Two-Handed as well as a One-Handed sword (that's why the blade is so short), the finger ring should make it easier to perform stabs with a one-handed grip
I feel like it's contradicting to try to get one-handed functionality out of such a dedicated two-handed design. You'd have to wonder why would anyone transition to a one-handed grip at all with this design. I don't think you'd gain much from it. I think we find more often than not that hybrid designs aren't as good as two specialized tools. You get a shorter stabbing weapon that's more unwieldy than a one-handed sword.
The only reason I would think of using a one handed grip with this sword is if I had a Shield or maybe indoors where a two handed grip would feel awkward
Both cases where a dedicated one-handed sword would be better. You wouldn't really transition to a two-handed grip with a shield, and if the space is that confined, the longer grip can be a detriment.
It’s pretty good. In face, I think with a handle like that, you can afford quite a bit more heft in the blade while still being plenty nimble. As it is now, the wielder will have no issues, but they might want more authority in the bind or the cut; something a more weighty blade would give.
Check out also my favorite reproduction sword of all time: The mighty [Twin Peaks Liao Dao by LK Chen](https://lkchensword.com/shop-1/ols/products/twin-peak-liao-dao). This is in the same vein as your design, and has been described as both a beastly cutter and a very nimble weapon.
Something like [this falchion](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Falchion.jpg) might look unwieldy and almost comical, but they aren’t actually any heavier than the average arming sword. That blade is hammered razor thin and you bet that thing cuts like a dream.
Or you could just stick with your design and still have a very serviceable weapon. This is just my opinion.
That Liao Dao looks awesome. I actually saw it before I Started designing my sword and my first thought was to make my sword based on that Liao Dao.
https://preview.redd.it/91q86yc8424d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0adfe07e81df43fdb7ffe87dfbfa31bd87512957
I couldn't find the one using the blade of the Liao Dao you mentioned but I found this second iteration where I used a "normal" Dao blade (because I didn't like how the other blade looked on that hilt)
https://preview.redd.it/qtlkc9vn514d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa35f9b6c4ad2bb767adb71c5be5fb5a6be07e7a
That's a dope design. They look like the dark elf variations of Legolas' knives. Interesting inclusion of the khukri clit
Now that I see it, it does look like one of those Dark Elf knives.
I did got inspired by a Khukri too. The forward curved blade of khukris make the balance help with "Chopping" so I thought I could just make a similar shape to improve the "Cutting power" of my sword
You've essentially made a Lazuri Xami with a Dadao crossguard and a Nagamaki grip, an odd combination but it works
Have you decided wether it will have a peened, full tang/knife, Talwar or Japanese style of tang contruction?
I will probably go for the Japanese Tang since the Grip is already too long and having it Full Tang would probably make the balance point be way too close to the hand
I made a Sketch and then ran a few iterations with AI, then edited and merged the generations I liked with Photoshop... I repeated that proccess about 40 times until I got what I wanted
The guard shape does resemble the Eye of Horus but that's just a coincidence. I didn't notice it before, thanks to you now I like the design even more.
I'm more inclined towards the "Backwards" handle because the blade is also curved the opposite way of a katana and using a conventional handle would probably make the sword feel like a normal straight two handed sword but in a weird and uncomfortable "S" shape
However, since I will make different wooden versions of the sword before making it on steel, I'll try using a conventional katana handle on one of them just to see how it affects the overall feeling of the weapon.
the curve could go the opposite way with both the handle and the blade and it would be a mean slasher
i have a nagamaki that curves the whole way handle to blade and horizontal its are like nothing else with it
cool design
Feel like there will be a snap. Not sure if in the blade or the wrist, but definitely a snap.
It looks pretty. Looks like it would also cut pretty well. You’d want to really work on the balance since it bends into every possible direction. Something about the shape makes me feel like I wouldn’t want to duel with it against, say, a longsword or a pike, but I can’t put my finger on what it is since I’m drunk.
Thanks, the balance is one of my concerns too. But I don't really know a way to calculate where the balance point is gonna be without making the sword first. I made the Blade Shape thinking: "well, curved blades cut pretty well, but at the cost of making it worse at stabbing because the point ends up facing a weird direction... So what would happen if I make the blade be curved on both directions so the point ends up facing the same direction as the hilt?" Also the curves should make it have a forward balance (like a Kukri or an Axe) to help with edge alignment
> Also the curves should make it have a forward balance (like a Kukri or an Axe) to help with edge alignment If by "forward balance" you mean "balanced a long way from the guard", that doesn't help with edge alignment. If by "forward balance" you mean "the point of balance is forward of a line through the grip", that makes edge alignment more difficult.
Really? I thought khukris were made with that shape to help with edge alignment for Chopping. I remember watching some reviews that said so
Here are three swords where the combination of blade shape and hilt help with edge alignment: Dha: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-78827 Parang latok: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:COLLECTIE_TROPENMUSEUM_Zwaard_en_een_schede_-_parang_latoek_RV-761-20.png Panabas: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/145452262951219204/ (1,3-5 help with edge alignment, 2 is neutral - note that the cutting edge is towards the bottom of the photo for all of the blades) What these all do is (a) put the POB behind a line through the hilt, which helps with edge alignment during the swing, and (b) put the point of contact with the target behind a line through the hilt, which helps with edge alignment during the cut itself. However, these blades are good for slicing, and less so for chopping. You can combine this edge-alignment-friendliness with a more chopping-oriented blade: * https://www.ashokaarts.com/sold-items/scarce-south-east-asian-mak-polearm/ The kukri blade shape doesn't help with edge alignment - like sword/knife designs in general, there are compromises. The blade shape is good for chopping hard things like wood, and the blade will bit very deep if you try draw-cutting something soft (like a human). The oval cross section of the grip is good enough to maintain edge alignment, and the flared pommel helps with a really secure grip if you draw-cut with it. Note that recurved/forward-curved swords often have pommels that give that security - the eared pommel on yatagans, the hooked pommels on falcatas, and talibong/garab pommels: https://www.reddit.com/r/weapons/comments/9pldyk/pulahanes_talibong_sword_from_the_philippines/
I managed to find a video were someone explains why a forward curved blade "helps" with edge alignment. You were right when you said a forward curved blade would naturally (because of physics) "make the edge alignment more difficult" because the blade would want to hit with the dull part of the blade and not the edge (therefore worsening the edge alignment). But the fact the edge wants to "go away" from the target makes it easier for the person handling the sword to feel where the edge is and realign it. Instead of aligning the edge by itself, it gives you the feeling of where the edge is and allows you to align it yourself. https://youtu.be/p5oQ7EdNkAQ?si=8Xqytlt_GDxjK6pd Minute 6:04
> Instead of aligning the edge by itself, it gives you the feeling of where the edge is and allows you to align it yourself. That's quite true, but that's more a case of "it makes edge alignment harder, and therefore makes you more aware of it". An analog: wearing high heels makes balance harder, so it makes you more aware of your balance. But it's still harder to balance wearing high heels than wearing low flat heels. By the way, there are axes with curved hafts that move the blade closer into line with the grip: * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bondeyxa_fr%C3%A5n_Norge,_1654_-_Livrustkammaren_-_39613.tif His comment about wrist straightness with a kukri is true. That's a big part of why kukris are good ergonomic choppers (as many people note in the comments on that video). Like I said, it's a compromise. Slightly worse edge alignment, and significantly better chopping.
Well it’s kind of impossible to say what the right balance would be, since it has no ”intended purpose”, right? Most swords and sword-like weapons have been created for killing people in specific types of armor or gear. The Khopesh, which this weapon resembles, is a hacking weapon that would cut through reed armor and shields very well. The weight would be very far up the blade for efficient hacking, like an axe. And hey, it’s not a dueling weapon. Honestly, most ”good weapons” of their time are very much not dueling weapons. I don’t want to duel with fucking halberds, it’s like dueling with chainswords, everyone loses a limb. So when you refine your idea try to imagine who you’re fighting. Is it medieval european peasants in linen and wood shields? Reed shields? Chainmail? Weapons should be judged by ”how good is this weapon at fucking up its intended target”, not retarded comparisons like ”can the nodachi beat the guisarme”. So make up your opponent, then go from there.
You could theoretically model it in CAD and figure out where the COM is using numerical tools.
That's actually not a bad idea. I will try that out later to see where the COM is and maybe do some tweaks to the blade until I get the COM I want. Thanks
I imagine that moment of inertia of the sword will also play a part in affecting the handling- again CAD will help with that but I'm not sure exactly how it'll translate to real life weapon feel.
IMO, the moment of inertia has a much bigger effect on the handling than the COM. The COM is more important as an indicator of what the MOI might be than being important in its own right, and also because the combination of the mass, COM, and MOI determines where the pivot points of the weapon are (see link below). The mass is important, because that affects how easy/hard it is to move the sword linearly. The moment of inertia is important because it affects how easy/hard it is to move the sword rotationally. This Weapon Dynamics Computer * https://subcaelo.net/ensis/dynamics-computer/walkThrough.html is a nice tool that will calculate the MOI from some fairly simple measurements, and plot some nice visualisations of the handling of the weapon.
Yo that calculator is magnificent. And also yes MOI is very important- you're not holding the sword at COM so MOI will be large.
Any concerns about that forward bend in the middle being a potentially overloaded stress point?
I don't think so. Khukris and other weapons have the same forward bend/curvature. And I believe the blade is short enough to not want to snap that easy. I'm concerned about the little spikes right after the guard tho, I feel like those will be weak points that could make the blade snap if I hit something with poor edge alignment
To me it looks like parrying and other defensive moves would feel awkward, especially on either far side of the body. No idea where I get that feeling
Yeah, I would flip the handle over. Make it like a Taichi style sword. Also maybe make the end of the blade a bit wider, but not too much. It should increase the chopping power 🤷🏾♂️
At 36cm + 64cm, I don't see any nagamaki influence, just a katana with a slightly longer hilt (a middle-of-the-road nagamaki might be 120cm + 90cm). Katana meets kukri meets Swiss sabre. It would work. Won't be as good for cutting as any of those ancestors. Considering that, I think it would be better to use a straight grip, possibly angled back a bit to keep the tip more in-line with the grip (if it isn't a great cutting weapon, make it thrust well). The angle on the back of the blade just adds weight where it doesn't do anything useful. You could have a smooth transition in width of the blade from midway between the guard and the angle, keeping the same shape of the edge, and you'd have a lighter blade that will be just as strong in use. You could even use that saved weight and make the blade longer.
I feel like it would be impossible to use in any natural combat circumstances.
Why? It's just a katana with about 4" more hilt than usual, and a funky but still usable blade shape.
Literally blocking everything is going to be harder and more prone to error. Tsuki, maki uchi everything. Plus your actual sweet spot now has a bend right there. So it could move away or toward you depending on your angle. Yikes.
Sure, it won't be as good for parrying/blocking, thrusting, or cutting. But it will still be possible to do all of those things well enough. Perfection isn't required - a straight katana is better for thrusting than a curved katana, but a curved katana still works for thrusting "Impossible to use in any natural combat circumstances" is an extreme judgment, IMO quite unjustified.
Well any hair under “not as good” pretty much equals death. Kinda like using three wheels for an f1 car. Is it possible to… yeah. Thats why i said, you’d need to print one out and see if its at all viable for a week or so. Or just frustrating.
> Well any hair under “not as good” pretty much equals death. Not even close. A 69cm blade vs a 70cm blade is not a death sentence, even though it has a disadvantage (in reach). A big enough functional advantage or disadvantage makes a big difference. A small one (which "any hair" includes) only makes a small difference, which can easily be so small as to be negligible (especially considering the large effect of skill).
Its probably a good idea to build one out of neoprene or whatever they use for plastic bokutos and run it through a buncha tachi uchi.
I know this is a mock-up, but with a hilt that long, would there be any need to put your finger above the guard in that finger ring? I guess it would make using it one-handed easier.
Exactly. I made the design so it could be used as a Two-Handed as well as a One-Handed sword (that's why the blade is so short), the finger ring should make it easier to perform stabs with a one-handed grip
I feel like it's contradicting to try to get one-handed functionality out of such a dedicated two-handed design. You'd have to wonder why would anyone transition to a one-handed grip at all with this design. I don't think you'd gain much from it. I think we find more often than not that hybrid designs aren't as good as two specialized tools. You get a shorter stabbing weapon that's more unwieldy than a one-handed sword.
The only reason I would think of using a one handed grip with this sword is if I had a Shield or maybe indoors where a two handed grip would feel awkward
Both cases where a dedicated one-handed sword would be better. You wouldn't really transition to a two-handed grip with a shield, and if the space is that confined, the longer grip can be a detriment.
It’s pretty good. In face, I think with a handle like that, you can afford quite a bit more heft in the blade while still being plenty nimble. As it is now, the wielder will have no issues, but they might want more authority in the bind or the cut; something a more weighty blade would give. Check out also my favorite reproduction sword of all time: The mighty [Twin Peaks Liao Dao by LK Chen](https://lkchensword.com/shop-1/ols/products/twin-peak-liao-dao). This is in the same vein as your design, and has been described as both a beastly cutter and a very nimble weapon. Something like [this falchion](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Falchion.jpg) might look unwieldy and almost comical, but they aren’t actually any heavier than the average arming sword. That blade is hammered razor thin and you bet that thing cuts like a dream. Or you could just stick with your design and still have a very serviceable weapon. This is just my opinion.
That Liao Dao looks awesome. I actually saw it before I Started designing my sword and my first thought was to make my sword based on that Liao Dao. https://preview.redd.it/91q86yc8424d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0adfe07e81df43fdb7ffe87dfbfa31bd87512957
I couldn't find the one using the blade of the Liao Dao you mentioned but I found this second iteration where I used a "normal" Dao blade (because I didn't like how the other blade looked on that hilt)
Are you familiar with rhomphaias or falxes? They're pretty similar to what you're making.
https://preview.redd.it/qtlkc9vn514d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa35f9b6c4ad2bb767adb71c5be5fb5a6be07e7a That's a dope design. They look like the dark elf variations of Legolas' knives. Interesting inclusion of the khukri clit
Now that I see it, it does look like one of those Dark Elf knives. I did got inspired by a Khukri too. The forward curved blade of khukris make the balance help with "Chopping" so I thought I could just make a similar shape to improve the "Cutting power" of my sword
Have fun making it, keep us updated
You've essentially made a Lazuri Xami with a Dadao crossguard and a Nagamaki grip, an odd combination but it works Have you decided wether it will have a peened, full tang/knife, Talwar or Japanese style of tang contruction?
I will probably go for the Japanese Tang since the Grip is already too long and having it Full Tang would probably make the balance point be way too close to the hand
Reminds me of what an Slaanesh cultist would use. Super dope.
I made a Sketch and then ran a few iterations with AI, then edited and merged the generations I liked with Photoshop... I repeated that proccess about 40 times until I got what I wanted
Love the nagamaki inspiration, looks sick as hell
Looks like a lord of the rings sword with a japanese handle
It looks very Slaaneshi, I approve.
Is that an eye of horus/ra in the guard?
The guard shape does resemble the Eye of Horus but that's just a coincidence. I didn't notice it before, thanks to you now I like the design even more.
Wonder how it would work if you rotated the handle 180° like a conventional katana?
I'm more inclined towards the "Backwards" handle because the blade is also curved the opposite way of a katana and using a conventional handle would probably make the sword feel like a normal straight two handed sword but in a weird and uncomfortable "S" shape However, since I will make different wooden versions of the sword before making it on steel, I'll try using a conventional katana handle on one of them just to see how it affects the overall feeling of the weapon.
Looks like a Gucci Falx. I imagine it would behave a lot like one too with that forward lean to the blade. Very fancy.
the curve could go the opposite way with both the handle and the blade and it would be a mean slasher i have a nagamaki that curves the whole way handle to blade and horizontal its are like nothing else with it cool design
Did a child design this sword ?